Re: End of K-mount?
Does anyone know for sure that the existing software in the MZ-S could not operate an FAJ lens aperture? Or why a firmware upgrade could not be installed to provide it (at no cost, of course)? Solid reasoning only please, no wild speculation! Question. Who would want to use a FAJ lens on a MZ-S? Clearly, these lenses are targeted towards the lower end of the consumer market, so a pro with a MZ-S usually use something better like a FA 28-70 f4 or f2.8 constant for example. Pentax made low end cameras like the MZ-50 and now the MZ-60 that essentially have no built-in aperture lever. Basically, any K mount autofocus lens before the introduction of the FAJ are made essentially FAJ like when mounted on these low-end bodies. So will Pentax dump the K mount with the introduction of FAJ? NO.. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: End of K-mount?
Chris wrote: I pointed out that Nikon users said the same thing, and that Nikon, a very well-respected camera company, obviously thought that there was a very good reason to remove the ring, so they did. Let's see... Canon and Minolta have no aperture rings... now Nikon is slowly removing the aperture ring from their lenses... The below might be of interest for those who believe Nikon will remove the aperture ring from all their lenses: In a recent meeting with Mr. Tetsuro Goto, Head of Research and Development for Nikon SLR cameras, I asked if all future professional specification Nikkors would follow suit and be of the G-type. He explained that the decision to adopt the G specification for the VR 70-200mm lens was based purely on engineering reasons, because Nikon's priority was to produce a lightweight, compact lens, and that there was no policy to dispense with a conventional aperture ring in future lenses provided it fitted the design criteria. If this is to be believed, and I cannot see why not, Nikon will maintain the aperture ring of most of their lenses. So I guess the panic that Pentax will remove the aperture ring could now be finally brought to an end! :o) Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
I knew there was something else I liked about my PZ-1p. The ability to control the aperture from the body, without an aperture ring. You say that the MZ-S can't do this? Len --- On MZ-S, the program shift is achieved by turning the aperture ring of the lens to aperture priority mode. If a KAJ lens is mounted on MZ-S, you won't have manual control over aperture value. Same as MZ-3/5/5n. That's why I am not happy as a user of MZ-S and MZ-5n. If KAJ lenses become a mainstream in Pentax lineup, my only camera that can still operate aperture priority mode is my very first MZ-50. Regards, Henry Chu 14/2/2003 _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
Chris wrote: We obviously have different opinions on this, but I never believe anyone who insists that something is impossible, especially when it's happened to every other major camera companies' lenses. I never said anything was impossible.I even said that they may switch to the Canon mount! The point is that it is completely fruitless to whine about possibilities, that are even at odds with what the company is saying, as there are countless possibilities. There are only weeks to the PMA show. If we are lucky some of the news leak out before that time. I suggest that whining start the moment Pentax do cripple the K-mount and not before it happens. At PMA we will se new SLR(s) in some form or another giving us the clue of pentax direction in the slr market. This is because I expect (but could be wrong) that we will see the first installment(s) of Pentax completely new SLR line at PMA. Pål
Re: On USM and KAF2/KAF3 (was Re: End of K-mount?
That would be overkill. Canon EOS bodies can use either type of AF lens without having a switch to choose between them. If you were going to use AF at all, why would you NOT want the advantage of the USM? The only real choices we need are: AF or MF. We already have that. Len --- From: Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: On USM and KAF2/KAF3 (was Re: End of K-mount? Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:00:49 -0800 Perhaps it could be done with a switch on the lens to determine which AF method was used? Something like AF/USM switch. When the switch was in AF position, the power for the USM would be disconnected and the lens acted like a regular Pentax AF lens. When the switch was set to USM, the conventional AF mechanism would be disengaged and USM would click in. But that creates a dilemma, since future AF bodies should or might support current AF lenses, you might actually have the choice to use either AF methods when USM lenses were mounted on USM bodies. The situation is a bit like digital/analog flash system. Nikon chose to integrate analog support in digital flashes while Pentax chose to integrate analog support in AF digital bodies. However, if Pentax would ever release USM lenses, it would be highly likely to follow what Nikon did - USM lenses must be used on newer bodies which support both AF method. regards, Alan Chan _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: On USM and KAF2/KAF3 (was Re: End of K-mount?
Antti-Pekka Virjonen wrote: On the other hand I think there is no need to implement USM at all. The shaft/pin drive methods works about as fast and good as the USM competition and it allows the lenses to be cheaper without the motor. For wide-angle to short telephoto lens, your point is right. But for long telephoto lens, especially those without internal focusing, USM is much faster. Another major advantage for USM is that it is very silent, which is important for wildlife or concert photography. Regards, Henry Chu 14/2/2003 _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: End of K-mount?
Bojidar Dimitrov wrote: I imagine that the FAJ lenses behave like an A, F or FA lenses set on the A aperture. Due to MZ-S's program-shift, you should be able to deliberately set any aperture value you want. Strictly speaking, MZ-S doesn't have program-shift. When the aperture is set on the A position, the only way you can change the aperture value is by shifting to the shutter-priority mode. Regards, Henry Chu 14/2/2003 _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
I guess I don't understand this. I assume that the FAJ lenses would act like an A or FA lens on A. This means that the body would pick the Av and Tv. Turning the main dial on the MZ-S would cycle though combinations of Av and Tv that still work. (This is just like a program shift) Manual mode is not possible, although you could exert some control with exposure comp. Is this correct? Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: End of K-mount?
Steve, That sounds right to me. When I used PZ-1p's and you had a dial to spin for shutter and one for aperture, it seemed like two are necessary/useful. In reality, shifting one shifts the other. The one difference is in the case of over/underexposure control, you could specify whether the shutter speed or aperture were to shift. Don't see how you could do that with an MZ-S. Bruce Friday, February 14, 2003, 10:06:34 AM, you wrote: SD I guess I don't understand this. I assume that the FAJ lenses would act SD like an A or FA lens on A. This means that the body would pick the Av SD and Tv. Turning the main dial on the MZ-S would cycle though SD combinations of Av and Tv that still work. (This is just like a program SD shift) Manual mode is not possible, although you could exert some SD control with exposure comp. Is this correct? SD Steven Desjardins SD Department of Chemistry SD Washington and Lee University SD Lexington, VA 24450 SD (540) 458-8873 SD FAX: (540) 458-8878 SD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: End of K-mount?
I downloaded the MZ-S manual. In program mode the camera picks a f stop/shutter speed combination, and that is THE one and only one it will use in program mode for that given EV. With program shift you can select any f stop/shutter speed combination that gives the same EV. This is usually implemented with a dial that allows you to scroll through the combinations without having to touch any other control. The MZ-S would do no better with a FAJ lens than a 20 year old Super Program. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I don't understand this. I assume that the FAJ lenses would act like an A or FA lens on A. This means that the body would pick the Av and Tv. Turning the main dial on the MZ-S would cycle though combinations of Av and Tv that still work. (This is just like a program shift) Manual mode is not possible, although you could exert some control with exposure comp. Is this correct? Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: End of K-mount?
Mike wrote: I don¹t have any inside track or any great knowledge of this, but personally I doubt very much we'll see any Pentax lenses with either of these technologies at any time in the foreseeable future. Next month is the perfect time for new product releases as major shows are scheduled for the US, Europe and Japan: PMA 2003 - March 2 - 5 CeBIT 2003 - March 12 - 19 Photo Expo 2003 Tokyo, Japan - March 14 - 16 Could be that we'll see a range of new products at PMA, possibly with the emphasis on film cameras, then a big kick-off of digital at CeBIT (this is the first year that Pentax will be an exhibitor) and finally the grand introduction of the whole new line-up to the Japanese domestic market. Pat Pat Temmerman [MZ3_fella] ___ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
RE: End of K-mount?
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/html/pages/faqsb.htm#15 http://www.sigmaphoto.com/html/news/80-400os.htm I very much doubt they got any help from Canon (probably why they couldn't call it USM IS)... I have heard that it HSM is not quite 100% as good as Canon/Nikon, which again suggests it is their own design, but it 99% there. Nobody knows how good OS is yet, although Nikon VR is supposedly nowhere near as good as Canon IS, so I guess this is a difficult thing to get right. This also points that Nikon did their own thing for IS, rather than copy canon... -Original Message- From: Mike Johnston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 13 February 2003 01:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: End of K-mount? With all due respect, Sigma has HSM and now OS. Maybe you cant do a carbon copy of Canon, but no reason why you cant do your own. If Sigma can do it then damn sure Pentax can! Rob, You may be right. (I wasn't even aware of HSM and OS.) On the other hand, maybe Canon is willing to license to Sigma but not to Pentax. I dunno. --Mike
Re: End of K-mount?
Chris wrote: Sure there is. Just look at the direction Nikon is taking, and look at how Nikon users felt when the first G lenses came out. They started out by releasing a very few low-end lenses with limited compatibility: their 28-80, 28-100 and 70-300. No big deal, right? Just a few bottom-of-the line lenses to bring the price of their low-end kits down, right? Wrong. Now more and more of their high-end lenses are appearing without aperture rings; first the 24-85mm AF-S, and now the AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF. Claiming that it is absurd to worry about Pentax doing the same thing is sticking your head in the sand. Nothing's guaranteed, but it's very possible. ..and since when did it become reasonable to assume Pentax do what Nikon does? I guess then we will see Pentax USM and IS and Pentax answer to the D1 etc + a Pentax F5 (or even F6) competitor real soon. Take shelter! The sky is falling! Pål
On USM and KAF2/KAF3 (was Re: End of K-mount?
Let's say that KAF3 is coming and does support USM. USM lenses are made and sold. OK... so, again, my limited knowledge says that USM puts the AF motor in the lens, and not the body. This means that the screw-drive method for the camera communicating to the lens the focus is useless. Is it then possible that USM lenses will be AF backwards compatable with any body that doesn't not support KAF3? I suppose there'd be a way for the body to tell the lens via the little screw how to focus the lens, but I can't imagine it would be fault proof and cheap, and thus probably not the most ideal answer, especially for EVERY lens to be backwards comptable with anything not KAF3? Obviously, this is only a hindrance to AF use of the lens.. -- http://www.infotainment.org - more fun than a poke in your eye. http://www.eighteenpercent.com- photography and portfolio.
Re: On USM and KAF2/KAF3 (was Re: End of K-mount?
Is it then possible that USM lenses will be AF backwards compatable with any body that doesn't not support KAF3? I guess everything is possible but it is highly unlikely. Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
Chris wrote: Since when did it become reasonable to assume that Pentax will never ever do something that Nikon did? This is still completely absurd. It is major difference between assuming or believeing something will happen before it happens, and asuming things won't happen uintil you see the proof that the thing is actually happening! Pentax will release two lenses for utter entry level, just like they have done with couple of bodies. They have stated that they will maintain backwards compatibility with the upcoming DSLR. There are no sign of crippling of the K-mout as there are no reason for doing so. Pentax is not Nikon. Pentax K-mount is not the Nikon F mount. The K-mount can use aperture rings and still maintain future features like USM and IS in the same lens. This remain a case of the sky is falling without any data points. Reserve the whining for the day Pentax remove the aperture ring from all their lenses. Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
Certainly not. According to Pentax KAF3 patents, both IS and USM will work without sacrificing compatibility. IS=Image Stabilization, but what is USM? Ultra Sonic Motor. LOOB Load of old bollocks! Cotty Picking up the pieces after the CPU went in my road warrior PowerBook. Like Arnie, I'll be back Free UK Macintosh Classified Ads at http://www.macads.co.uk/ Oh, swipe me! He paints with light! http://www.macads.co.uk/snaps/
Re: On USM and KAF2/KAF3 (was Re: End of K-mount?
gfen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it then possible that USM lenses will be AF backwards compatable with any body that doesn't not support KAF3? It's certainly technically possible, but the real question is whether it's economically practical. You'd have to have both conventional and USM focusing systems in the lens and have a mechanism that disconnects the conventional drive mechanism when it detects power at the power zoom/USM contacts. This would increase the price beyond what USM in itself would add. I suppose a manual select switch would also work but it seems inelegant and would be annoying for those who have an AF body with the KAF3 mount and one with KAF2 and used the same lens with both. Automatic detection and switching seems the way to go and it might just be too costly except on big dollar lenses. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: End of K-mount?
Dear all, Steven wrote: I assume that this KAJ lens would work on an MZ-s. You just could only use the program shift mode to change aperature and would have to use exposure compensation for everything else. On MZ-S, the program shift is achieved by turning the aperture ring of the lens to aperture priority mode. If a KAJ lens is mounted on MZ-S, you won't have manual control over aperture value. Same as MZ-3/5/5n. That's why I am not happy as a user of MZ-S and MZ-5n. If KAJ lenses become a mainstream in Pentax lineup, my only camera that can still operate aperture priority mode is my very first MZ-50. Regards, Henry Chu 14/2/2003 _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: On USM and KAF2/KAF3 (was Re: End of K-mount?
Perhaps it could be done with a switch on the lens to determine which AF method was used? Something like AF/USM switch. When the switch was in AF position, the power for the USM would be disconnected and the lens acted like a regular Pentax AF lens. When the switch was set to USM, the conventional AF mechanism would be disengaged and USM would click in. But that creates a dilemma, since future AF bodies should or might support current AF lenses, you might actually have the choice to use either AF methods when USM lenses were mounted on USM bodies. The situation is a bit like digital/analog flash system. Nikon chose to integrate analog support in digital flashes while Pentax chose to integrate analog support in AF digital bodies. However, if Pentax would ever release USM lenses, it would be highly likely to follow what Nikon did - USM lenses must be used on newer bodies which support both AF method. regards, Alan Chan _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
Hi, [...] Granted they have released a 70-200 f2.8 IF-ED G lens, I don't think most Nikon owners are worried that Nikon will abandon the F-mount Nikon has already abandoned the old F-mount. Or is your idea of full compatibility having to buy the F-100 (price $1000+) ? If Pentax goes along the same way (and they must, if they are to compete with Nikon and Canon), then our K and M lenses are doomed. Cheers, Boz
Re: End of K-mount?
Boz wrote: If Pentax goes along the same way (and they must, if they are to compete with Nikon and Canon), then our K and M lenses are doomed. Certainly not. According to Pentax KAF3 patents, both IS and USM will work without sacrificing compatibility. Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
Henry wrote: My problem is, if Pentax to going to release more lenses with FAJ mount to match the coming D-SLR, I will be gone to Canon. The FAJ lenses are not intended for a DSLR but for entry level film slr's. There's no point for me to remain staying with Pentax because my existing film cameras, MZ-S and MZ-5n, are not able to control the aperture value manually. I hope the KAF3 mounts will only bring us USM and IS, but not G. I now face the dilemma like the owners of Nikon F90X. It would be too late if I switch system when Pentax eventually release a FAJ*80-200/2.8 USM IS. One should not take for granted that Pentax will release KAF3 lenses at all. They have never promised them; certainly not for PMA this year. Just because Pentax have filed patents doesn't mean it will get marketed. Lets' not get too carried away. Although Pentax will show a lot at PMA there must be limits on how much new stuff they will show. Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Certainly not. According to Pentax KAF3 patents, both IS and USM will work without sacrificing compatibility. IS=Image Stabilization, but what is USM?
Re: End of K-mount?
The autofocus actuator requires an Ultra Small Motor to drive it! keith whaley Gregory L. Hansen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Certainly not. According to Pentax KAF3 patents, both IS and USM will work without sacrificing compatibility. IS=Image Stabilization, but what is USM?
Re: End of K-mount?
--- Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The autofocus actuator requires an Ultra Small Motor to drive it! keith whaley Gregory L. Hansen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Certainly not. According to Pentax KAF3 patents, both IS and USM will work without sacrificing compatibility. IS=Image Stabilization, but what is USM? The correct name for the USM feature in Canon EF lenses is: UltraSonic Motor. = Matt Greene I get it done with YAHOO! DSL!
Re: Re: End of K-mount?
It was great response, Alan!! Why to change to Canon/Nikon if maybe Pentax introduces similar technology with any kind of compatibility? If so for many of us it will be still the best mount. Hope our dreams come true. Alek Uytkownik Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisa: My problem is, if Pentax to going to release more lenses with FAJ mount to match the coming D-SLR, I will be gone to Canon. There\'s no point for me to remain staying with Pentax because my existing film cameras, MZ-S and MZ-5n, are not able to control the aperture value manually. I hope the KAF3 mounts will only bring us USM and IS, but not G. I now face the dilemma like the owners of Nikon F90X. It would be too late if I switch system when Pentax eventually release a FAJ*80-200/2.8 USM IS. What if Pentax released a DSLR body and some FAJ USM/IS lenses this year? Would Pentax be much different from Canon then? regards, Alan Chan _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --r-e-k-l-a-m-a- Tanie bilety lotnicze! http://samoloty.onet.pl
Re: End of K-mount?
Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because the mount can be backward compatible doesn't mean it will be. That takes an act of will. There is nothing to prevent KAF3 mounts to be on J lenses only. So you think they'll make new high-tech lenses that are incompatible with their top-of-the-line SLR (the MZ-S)? -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: End of K-mount?
Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The whole thing is about people claiming Pentax will abandon compatibility because they have released two lenses with limited compatibility. It is absurd. Theres no basis for any such conclusion. Pentax have released bodies with the same limitation years back and assming that every body thereafter would be equally crippled is equally nonsensical. Right. Moreover, Pentax has demonstrated that when they do offer products with limited compatibility, it's always at the *bottom* of the product line: Budget-priced, entry-level gear to get people into the system, at which point they can move on to higher level, fully-backwards-compatible equipment. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: End of K-mount?
If Pentax takes away the aperture ring at the same time when introducing the new technologies like ultrasonic motor and image stabilizing, that's the end of my investment on Pentax equipment. I feel betrayed for my long patience on Pentax. Henry, With all due respect, I think you may be overreacting. The introduction of two lenses does not mean that all future lenses from Pentax will lack aperture control. But where have you heard about Pentax introducing USM or IS lenses? From what I've heard, both those technologies are closely controlled by Canon. The only reason Nikon has them is that MITI forced Canon to share. Olympus, for instance, had a big hit with the digital UZI, but could not make a successor because Canon would not let it license the IS technology again. I don¹t have any inside track or any great knowledge of this, but personally I doubt very much we'll see any Pentax lenses with either of these technologies at any time in the foreseeable future. --Mike
Re: End of K-mount?
Mike wrote: But where have you heard about Pentax introducing USM or IS lenses? From what I've heard, both those technologies are closely controlled by Canon. Maybe for USM. For IS, however, there are several patents holders. The optics seems to me mostly Asahi patents. The only thing Canon seem to be the servo system. For any IS lens, there seems to lots of cross licensing. By reading the patents, it is certain that not one company control IS technology. I agree, however, that there are no signals that Pentax will release IS or USM anytimew soon, or at all. All they've done is to file patents on a modified K-mount that can use both USM and IS. Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
I also predict I won't be proven wrong for a few years, and then nobody here would remember, so it's like a freebie for me. *chuckle*
Re: End of K-mount?
Okay by me, Matt! I stand corrected! g Thanks for the correction. keith whaley Matt Greene wrote: --- Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The autofocus actuator requires an Ultra Small Motor to drive it! keith whaley Gregory L. Hansen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Certainly not. According to Pentax KAF3 patents, both IS and USM will work without sacrificing compatibility. IS=Image Stabilization, but what is USM? The correct name for the USM feature in Canon EF lenses is: UltraSonic Motor. = Matt Greene I get it done with YAHOO! DSL!
Re: End of K-mount?
Huh? Nothing preventing them to releadse them with Canon mount ether! The whole thing is about people claiming Pentax will abandon compatibility because they have released two lenses with limited compatibility. It is absurd. Theres no basis for any such conclusion. Pentax have released bodies with the same limitation years back and assming that every body thereafter would be equally crippled is equally nonsensical. Pål, When I first took over at _Photo Techniques_, we had a problem come up. We had negotiated to get permission to use a particular picture on our cover, and then we had to work through a number of production difficulties. We were very close to our deadline when a disaster occurred--the proofs came back, and the separator had made the image too small! It wouldn't cover the cover. And we were out of time. So the Art Director and I came up with a simple workaround--we simply used a narrow red border around the entire cover, similar to the style used by _TIME_ magazine. It looked okay, and it allowed us to use the seps we had. Well, obviously this was just an expedient, a workaround, and a one-time thing. But after that issue came out, we got numerous letters from subscribers, either complimenting us, or complaining about, our new cover style. Virtually all of the people who had bothered to write letters had assumed that EVERY cover from that point onwards would have a narrow red border. Needless to say, they were mistaken in that assumption Perhaps it is human nature to extrapolate. g --Mike
Re: End of K-mount?
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Mike Johnston wrote: But where have you heard about Pentax introducing USM or IS lenses? From I was under the impression that IS patents were put out by Pentax many years ago, and further more that the current IS and VR lenses were based on these patents? I won't fight if I'm told its untrue, either. As for USM? Perhaps I'm missing the point of just what makes USM special..I was under the impression that the biggest difference was that there was a motor in each lens to focus, and not a motor in the body with a screw... While there may be a patent for the Canon way of doing this, I can't imagine it would be that difficult to come up with the same concept in another manner and avoid the patent law? -- http://www.infotainment.org - more fun than a poke in your eye. http://www.eighteenpercent.com- photography and portfolio.
Re: End of K-mount?
Mike Johnston wrote: [...] Perhaps it is human nature to extrapolate. Well, it sure is on PDML, pilgrim! g keith whaley g --Mike
RE: End of K-mount?
I've never heard of ANY patent lasting only 7 years, 17 is about the minimum isnt it?. JCO -Original Message- From: Gregory L. Hansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 3:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: End of K-mount? Mike Johnston said: But where have you heard about Pentax introducing USM or IS lenses? From what I've heard, both those technologies are closely controlled by Canon. The only reason Nikon has them is that MITI forced Canon to share. Olympus, for instance, had a big hit with the digital UZI, but could not make a successor because Canon would not let it license the IS technology again. I don¹t have any inside track or any great knowledge of this, but personally I doubt very much we'll see any Pentax lenses with either of these technologies at any time in the foreseeable future. I thought the patent protected Canon for seven years, and it's expired now. Although I could be wrong or simply unsophisticated in the ways of patents.
RE: End of K-mount?
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I've never heard of ANY patent lasting only 7 years, 17 is about the minimum isnt it?. JCO in the US, yes. Herb
Re: End of K-mount?
gfen wrote: I was under the impression that IS patents were put out by Pentax many years ago, and further more that the current IS and VR lenses were based on these patents? Pentax put out their first IS patent in '89, 90 or 91 (I don't remember). They are the oldest patents I can find on working lenses, as opposed to just construction principles. Canon early patents (earlier than the Pentax ones) just refer to the servo mechanism and the fact that you needed moving elements and correcting elements. The Pentax patents are complete lens designs on IS lenses and all subsequent Canon and Nikon IS patents refer to the Pentax patents. Who patents what from whom will be pure guesswork for any of us. There are several possibilities 1) they license it,. 2) Pentax did the developing work for another company (Canon). 3) Nikon and Canon have found away around the Pentax patents. Incidentally, Nikon VR(IS) patents seem to rely almost exclusively on Pentax and Canon patents. The only thing Nikon seem to have original, and this is debatable too and need closer scrutiny of the patents as Pentax have similar claims, is the extra stop of leeway Nikon claims for their IS compared to Canon's. This has to do with how the IS behave when the moving elements are close to, or at their max moving distance; the Nikon (and Pentax) way is more intelligent IS. All this from memory. There could be some error. Anyway, the interlocking patents are extremely complex; both Olympus, Fuji and Minolta have filed IS patents as well. It is interesting though, that Pentax have fully intergrated IS and USM into the K-mount while maintaining full compatibility. This is not just a bunch of patents, but a complete working (K-mount) system. But this is nothing particularly sensational. Just because the engineers have fully working USM and IS lenses in the lab doesn't mean the beancounters give the go ahead. Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
On 12 Feb 2003 at 14:38, gfen wrote: As for USM? Perhaps I'm missing the point of just what makes USM special..I was under the impression that the biggest difference was that there was a motor in each lens to focus, and not a motor in the body with a screw... While there may be a patent for the Canon way of doing this, I can't imagine it would be that difficult to come up with the same concept in another manner and avoid the patent law? USM has many advantages including; compact and light, shape allows it to be fitted exactly where it is required to limit need for geared coupling, near silent operation, huge torque, easy to control, few moving parts, high reliability and low expense to manufacture. That's all, ie they were a very good idea. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html
Re: End of K-mount?
With all due respect, Sigma has HSM and now OS. Maybe you cant do a carbon copy of Canon, but no reason why you cant do your own. If Sigma can do it then damn sure Pentax can! Rob, You may be right. (I wasn't even aware of HSM and OS.) On the other hand, maybe Canon is willing to license to Sigma but not to Pentax. I dunno. --Mike
Re: End of K-mount?
Except no matter how much complaints there are, Nikon fans still stick with Nikon no matter what. Many people worship NIKON, don't think Pentax can afford that. regards, Alan Chan Sure there is. Just look at the direction Nikon is taking, and look at how Nikon users felt when the first G lenses came out. They started out by releasing a very few low-end lenses with limited compatibility: their 28-80, 28-100 and 70-300. No big deal, right? Just a few bottom-of-the line lenses to bring the price of their low-end kits down, right? Wrong. Now more and more of their high-end lenses are appearing without aperture rings; first the 24-85mm AF-S, and now the AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF. Claiming that it is absurd to worry about Pentax doing the same thing is sticking your head in the sand. Nothing's guaranteed, but it's very possible. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
But where have you heard about Pentax introducing USM or IS lenses? From what I've heard, both those technologies are closely controlled by Canon. The only reason Nikon has them is that MITI forced Canon to share. Olympus, for instance, had a big hit with the digital UZI, but could not make a successor because Canon would not let it license the IS technology again. I don¹t have any inside track or any great knowledge of this, but personally I doubt very much we'll see any Pentax lenses with either of these technologies at any time in the foreseeable future. I thought the patent protected Canon for seven years, and it's expired now. Although I could be wrong or simply unsophisticated in the ways of patents. Gregory, You know as much about them as I do. s --Mike
Re: End of K-mount?
Well, to be fair, there were a lot of Nikon users who switched to Canon when Canon began beating Nikon to the punch on too many technologies: USM, IS, and then the leapfrogging DSLR race. I don't think Nikon can count on as much user loyalty now that more and more people are going digital. chris On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Alan Chan wrote: Except no matter how much complaints there are, Nikon fans still stick with Nikon no matter what. Many people worship NIKON, don't think Pentax can afford that. regards, Alan Chan Sure there is. Just look at the direction Nikon is taking, and look at how Nikon users felt when the first G lenses came out. They started out by releasing a very few low-end lenses with limited compatibility: their 28-80, 28-100 and 70-300. No big deal, right? Just a few bottom-of-the line lenses to bring the price of their low-end kits down, right? Wrong. Now more and more of their high-end lenses are appearing without aperture rings; first the 24-85mm AF-S, and now the AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF. Claiming that it is absurd to worry about Pentax doing the same thing is sticking your head in the sand. Nothing's guaranteed, but it's very possible. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only reason Nikon has them is that MITI forced Canon to share. Could that happen in the USA? I thought that only occurred in Ayn Rand's epic novel, Atlas Shrugged, where Hank Rearden spends years perfecting a copper-titanium alloy (Rearden steel) that gives him a competitive edge over other bridge builders, only to have the Government force him to share it. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: End of K-mount?
Frankly, all I expect for PMA of interest for most PDML's (I exclude the various PS; digital or not) are the DSLR, maybe in prototype form, a chap film SLR, a few new lenses made for the DSLR, maybe one or two that don't cover full image cycle. Thats about it. Anything else I take as a bonus. Some seem to have their expectations a bit on the high side Pål, You're probably right. I'm one of those who have high expectations. My expectations are ALWAYS too high for these shows, and I am almost always disappointed. --Mike
Re: Re: End of K-mount?
On 12 Feb 2003 at 16:31, Alan Chan wrote: I like the Contax manual focus SLR system too, and my friend has a system ready to be sold. However, the future of the Contax system certainly doesn't appear as bright as Pentax imho. If the right products aren't presented at PMA it won't be far behind IMHO. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html
Re: End of K-mount?
P - A - T- I - E - N - C - E!! Just wait and see what PMA really brings. Arnold Iren Henry Chu schrieb: Dear all, I feel sick by the news of two new KAJ mount lenses. I think it signals the end of K-mount afterall. Obviously, the new user manual is designed for future use, as the KAJ lenses are yet to be released. This implies that there is no more plan from Pentax in the near future to release any other lens for the current 135 lens/camera series. Probably the KAF3 patent application is just a smoke screen before the PMA. Pentax is planning some complete reform in its lens/camera line-up. The KAJ lenses (probably OEM products from Cosina?) are just for the unsold stock of existing cameras. Great. I have a reason to switch to Canon after all the painful waiting of D-SLR for so long. Regards, Henry Chu 11/2/2003 _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
Arnold wrote: P - A - T- I - E - N - C - E!! We don't have to wait very long Pål
Re: End of K-mount?
Good grief! How is possible to react in the way cited below to the fact that Pentax release two bottom level lenses? We had the same sort of reaction when they released the first plastic mount lenses. Suddenly all Pentax lenses would use plastic mounts! Pentax is just releasing the same crap as the competition. Those who buy these lenses don't give a damned about lens compatibilty. The rest don't care either as they would never buy any of them. This is a non issue! Pål - Original Message - From: Iren Henry Chu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:36 PM Subject: End of K-mount? Dear all, I feel sick by the news of two new KAJ mount lenses. I think it signals the end of K-mount afterall. Obviously, the new user manual is designed for future use, as the KAJ lenses are yet to be released. This implies that there is no more plan from Pentax in the near future to release any other lens for the current 135 lens/camera series. Probably the KAF3 patent application is just a smoke screen before the PMA. Pentax is planning some complete reform in its lens/camera line-up. The KAJ lenses (probably OEM products from Cosina?) are just for the unsold stock of existing cameras. Great. I have a reason to switch to Canon after all the painful waiting of D-SLR for so long. Regards, Henry Chu 11/2/2003 _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
For God's sake man! Pull yourself together SLAP before blurting out HTML code advice relating to humerous postings on email lists! I hope Henry isn't dangling from a tree branch by now. KAJ my arse! LOL. Shouldn't there be a slap SLAP before that last statement? At 06:19 PM 2/11/2003 +, Cotty wrote: For God's sake man! Pull yourself together! Cotty Dear all, I feel sick by the news of two new KAJ mount lenses. Free UK Macintosh Classified Ads at http://www.macads.co.uk/ Oh, swipe me! He paints with light! http://www.macads.co.uk/snaps/
Re: End of K-mount?
Boy, I don't see why such over-reaction. regards, Alan Chan I feel sick by the news of two new KAJ mount lenses. I think it signals the end of K-mount afterall. Obviously, the new user manual is designed for future use, as the KAJ lenses are yet to be released. This implies that there is no more plan from Pentax in the near future to release any other lens for the current 135 lens/camera series. Probably the KAF3 patent application is just a smoke screen before the PMA. Pentax is planning some complete reform in its lens/camera line-up. The KAJ lenses (probably OEM products from Cosina?) are just for the unsold stock of existing cameras. Great. I have a reason to switch to Canon after all the painful waiting of D-SLR for so long. _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: End of K-mount?
Dear all, Good grief! How is possible to react in the way cited below to the fact that Pentax release two bottom level lenses? We had the same sort of reaction when they released the first plastic mount lenses. Suddenly all Pentax lenses would use plastic mounts! Pentax is just releasing the same crap as the competition. Those who buy these lenses don't give a damned about lens compatibilty. The rest don't care either as they would never buy any of them. This is a non issue! Pål I must admit that I was a bit hysterical last night when I first read the news at around midnight. These are the last things that I wish to learn before going to bed. My problem is, if Pentax to going to release more lenses with FAJ mount to match the coming D-SLR, I will be gone to Canon. There's no point for me to remain staying with Pentax because my existing film cameras, MZ-S and MZ-5n, are not able to control the aperture value manually. I hope the KAF3 mounts will only bring us USM and IS, but not G. I now face the dilemma like the owners of Nikon F90X. It would be too late if I switch system when Pentax eventually release a FAJ*80-200/2.8 USM IS. Regards, Henry Chu 12/2/2003 _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: End of K-mount?
Henry wrote: My problem is, if Pentax to going to release more lenses with FAJ mount to match the coming D-SLR, I will be gone to Canon. Uhhh, didn't Nikon release some bottom-end G lenses a couple of years ago? Granted they have released a 70-200 f2.8 IF-ED G lens, I don't think most Nikon owners are worried that Nikon will abandon the F-mount discontinue higher end cameras and lenses. I'm not sure what Nikon's plans are for the G lenses, but most of the Nikon line still have aperture rings. Peter --- Iren Henry Chu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, Good grief! How is possible to react in the way cited below to the fact that Pentax release two bottom level lenses? We had the same sort of reaction when they released the first plastic mount lenses. Suddenly all Pentax lenses would use plastic mounts! Pentax is just releasing the same crap as the competition. Those who buy these lenses don't give a damned about lens compatibilty. The rest don't care either as they would never buy any of them. This is a non issue! Pål I must admit that I was a bit hysterical last night when I first read the news at around midnight. These are the last things that I wish to learn before going to bed. My problem is, if Pentax to going to release more lenses with FAJ mount to match the coming D-SLR, I will be gone to Canon. There's no point for me to remain staying with Pentax because my existing film cameras, MZ-S and MZ-5n, are not able to control the aperture value manually. I hope the KAF3 mounts will only bring us USM and IS, but not G. I now face the dilemma like the owners of Nikon F90X. It would be too late if I switch system when Pentax eventually release a FAJ*80-200/2.8 USM IS. Regards, Henry Chu 12/2/2003 _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: End of K-mount?
I must admit that I was a bit hysterical last night when I first read the news at around midnight. These are the last things that I wish to learn before going to bed. Henry, One thing I learned during the time I was on the LUG: never read mailing list e-mail before bedtime! g The LUG could give me bad dreams, heart palpitations, and night sweats. Okay, so I'm kidding. Sort of. g --Mike
Re: End of K-mount?
I felt betrayed when Pentax switched over from the venerable screw mount to the K-mount. I started with Pentax back in 1963 and watched while other camera makes made the move to the screw mount. I thought screw mount would be the mount for all times! I have most of the SMC Taks now for my ES and ES II cameras. I have an LX, a PZ1-p, and a Ricoh that take K mount lenses - and my M42-s via an adapter. I have three K lenses and a couple of KA lenses. Dont't need anymore. I am content. Jim A. From: Iren Henry Chu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:50:16 +0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: End of K-mount? Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:50:25 -0500 Dear all, Good grief! How is possible to react in the way cited below to the fact that Pentax release two bottom level lenses? We had the same sort of reaction when they released the first plastic mount lenses. Suddenly all Pentax lenses would use plastic mounts! Pentax is just releasing the same crap as the competition. Those who buy these lenses don't give a damned about lens compatibilty. The rest don't care either as they would never buy any of them. This is a non issue! Pål I must admit that I was a bit hysterical last night when I first read the news at around midnight. These are the last things that I wish to learn before going to bed. My problem is, if Pentax to going to release more lenses with FAJ mount to match the coming D-SLR, I will be gone to Canon. There's no point for me to remain staying with Pentax because my existing film cameras, MZ-S and MZ-5n, are not able to control the aperture value manually. I hope the KAF3 mounts will only bring us USM and IS, but not G. I now face the dilemma like the owners of Nikon F90X. It would be too late if I switch system when Pentax eventually release a FAJ*80-200/2.8 USM IS. Regards, Henry Chu 12/2/2003 _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
