Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[P. J. Alling]

I guess that's worse than when I was trying out RawTherapee and it would 
crash every time I tried to open a directory with K20D raw files in it.


I've been using DxO Optics Pro, and haven't had any system problems with 
it.  I'm still using version 9, which is kind of old, currently they've 
renamed the package PhotoLab and in that guise it's up to version 3.


I'd think about upgrading but it still works with my K-5II and I haven't 
really found a need for something more yet.


On 12/30/2019 10:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Silly old me wrote:


And then IT happened. PR crashed.


And yet again...

Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
changes made to that picture were gone.

Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

Ralf

--
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Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de


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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

As I said, it's not an option *if you wish* to go to current operating system, 
or *have to* because you need a new system which will only run Catalina or 
later. There's absolutely nothing wrong with sticking to an older system with 
older software and hardware to maintain compatibility, as long as it does the 
job you want it to do. 

I have no such needs as long as I'm willing to upgrade my software to be 
compatible with the latest AND I want to take advantage of what current 
hardware and OS can do. I've had no problems with finding compatible software 
with any of my peripherals, and I do want to use the latest OS and apps: I use 
the new capabilities a lot. And on a quick test, my new Mac mini is capable of 
processing some of my raw image files at speeds which are 3 to 4 times faster 
than the old Mac mini. That's worth the pain of working out what will work best 
in my image processing to me. 

G


> On Dec 31, 2019, at 4:27 PM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Am 01.01.20 um 00:48 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:
> 
>> LR 6.14 is not an option for macOS users if they wish to go to current 
>> operating system (macOS X 10.15.x Catalina) or if they buy a new Apple 
>> system because it will come with Catalina installed.
> 
> There'll be no Catalina here as long as I can help it for the simple
> reason that I'd lose not only parts of my software but even the use of
> some rather special audio hardware for which there never will be any 64
> bit drivers.
> 
> I'm still using things like Expression Media 2 as a DAM solution for all
> my audio recordings (recorded soundscapes, no music) for the simple
> reason that there is nothing else on the market with comparable
> functionality.
> 
> My Beyerdnamic Headzone surround headphone system has no 64 bit drivers
> and there is no replacement. Some French company came up with a similar
> solution, a few years ago, but the promised Core Audio driver never
> materialised.
> 
> Computers isn't always about the newest and latest...
> 
> Ralf


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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 01.01.20 um 00:48 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:


LR 6.14 is not an option for macOS users if they wish to go to current 
operating system (macOS X 10.15.x Catalina) or if they buy a new Apple system 
because it will come with Catalina installed.


There'll be no Catalina here as long as I can help it for the simple
reason that I'd lose not only parts of my software but even the use of
some rather special audio hardware for which there never will be any 64
bit drivers.

I'm still using things like Expression Media 2 as a DAM solution for all
my audio recordings (recorded soundscapes, no music) for the simple
reason that there is nothing else on the market with comparable
functionality.

My Beyerdnamic Headzone surround headphone system has no 64 bit drivers
and there is no replacement. Some French company came up with a similar
solution, a few years ago, but the promised Core Audio driver never
materialised.

Computers isn't always about the newest and latest...

Ralf

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Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Thanks for the link!

LR 6.14 is not an option for macOS users if they wish to go to current 
operating system (macOS X 10.15.x Catalina) or if they buy a new Apple system 
because it will come with Catalina installed. 

I suspect the way to get your Affinity Photo edits back into Lightroom is to 
render a TIFF or JPEG output with the edits incorporated and have that imported 
into LR. If you use LR's facilities to open a document in an external editor, 
it should ask you whether to render export file, auto-import it in place, then 
when you're done editing with Affinity Photo and save your edits, the resulting 
file should show up in LR with all your edits intact.

G

> On Dec 31, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Henk Terhell  wrote:
> 
> There is a long thread on the YouTube video comparing LR alternatives:
> 
> Fstoppers article of today: 
> https://fstoppers.com/post-production/what-photo-processing-software-right-you-441252?utm_source=FS_RSS_medium=RSS_campaign=Main_RSS
> 
> On YT this video is: https://youtu.be/8jTuqbGSikE
> 
> Several people also complain here about crashing of On1.
> 
> I think I'll stick with the combination of LR 6.1 plus Affinity Photo for 
> some more time to come.
> Major disadvantage in this workflow is the loss of adjustments made in 
> Affinity Photo when going back to LR.
> 
> Henk

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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Henk Terhell]

There is a long thread on the YouTube video comparing LR alternatives:

Fstoppers article of today: 
https://fstoppers.com/post-production/what-photo-processing-software-right-you-441252?utm_source=FS_RSS_medium=RSS_campaign=Main_RSS


On YT this video is: https://youtu.be/8jTuqbGSikE

Several people also complain here about crashing of On1.

I think I'll stick with the combination of LR 6.1 plus Affinity Photo 
for some more time to come.
Major disadvantage in this workflow is the loss of adjustments made in 
Affinity Photo when going back to LR.


Henk
Op 2019-12-30 om 16:04 schreef Ralf R Radermacher:

Silly old me wrote:


And then IT happened. PR crashed.


And yet again...

Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
changes made to that picture were gone.

Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

Ralf

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Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de




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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Alan C]

I also started with PSE9. Gave it away. Still wonder why I wasted my 
money on the upgrade.


Alan C

On 31-Dec-19 06:26 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

I am still using Elements 9.

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:10 PM Alan C  wrote:


I've read this thread with interest & I can say that fortunately I have
never felt "held to ransom".

Elements 13 (ACR 9.0) still does an excellent job for me. By first
running the DNG image files through the Adobe DNG converter which
includes all the cameras & lenses post PSE13, the EXIF is brought up to
date.

Then I have DXO Optics Pro 11 (which was a freebie) on the side. It
contains a great suite of presets.

BTW, I haven't seen any mention of DXO offerings yet?

Alan C

On 30-Dec-19 08:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher 

wrote:

Silly old me wrote:


And then IT happened. PR crashed.

And yet again...

Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
changes made to that picture were gone.

Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice

letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.

One weird thing is that while I don’t remember if Lightroom *ever*

crashed on me before, it may have a time or two, it crashed reliably the
past few days when I’d press the import button. It seemed to happen when PR
was running, though it might have been the flickr uploadr.


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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Daniel J. Matyola]

I am still using Elements 9.

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:10 PM Alan C  wrote:

> I've read this thread with interest & I can say that fortunately I have
> never felt "held to ransom".
>
> Elements 13 (ACR 9.0) still does an excellent job for me. By first
> running the DNG image files through the Adobe DNG converter which
> includes all the cameras & lenses post PSE13, the EXIF is brought up to
> date.
>
> Then I have DXO Optics Pro 11 (which was a freebie) on the side. It
> contains a great suite of presets.
>
> BTW, I haven't seen any mention of DXO offerings yet?
>
> Alan C
>
> On 30-Dec-19 08:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
> >
> >> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Silly old me wrote:
> >>
> >>> And then IT happened. PR crashed.
> >> And yet again...
> >>
> >> Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
> >> Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
> >> changes made to that picture were gone.
> >>
> >> Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
> >> really, it looked so promising at he beginning.
> > It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice
> letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.
> >
> > One weird thing is that while I don’t remember if Lightroom *ever*
> crashed on me before, it may have a time or two, it crashed reliably the
> past few days when I’d press the import button. It seemed to happen when PR
> was running, though it might have been the flickr uploadr.
>
>
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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Alan C]

I've read this thread with interest & I can say that fortunately I have 
never felt "held to ransom".


Elements 13 (ACR 9.0) still does an excellent job for me. By first 
running the DNG image files through the Adobe DNG converter which 
includes all the cameras & lenses post PSE13, the EXIF is brought up to 
date.


Then I have DXO Optics Pro 11 (which was a freebie) on the side. It 
contains a great suite of presets.


BTW, I haven't seen any mention of DXO offerings yet?

Alan C

On 30-Dec-19 08:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

Silly old me wrote:


And then IT happened. PR crashed.

And yet again...

Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
changes made to that picture were gone.

Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice 
letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.

One weird thing is that while I don’t remember if Lightroom *ever* crashed on 
me before, it may have a time or two, it crashed reliably the past few days 
when I’d press the import button. It seemed to happen when PR was running, 
though it might have been the flickr uploadr.



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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:19 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>> 
>> Silly old me wrote:
>> 
>>> And then IT happened. PR crashed.
>> 
>> And yet again...
>> 
>> Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
>> Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
>> changes made to that picture were gone.
>> 
>> Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
>> really, it looked so promising at he beginning.
> 
> It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice 
> letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.
> 

I decided to write a letter, I didn’t put the effort into going into a lot of 
detail unless they really want it, but this is what I wrote.  I really do hope 
that they do soon come up with something I can use to replace LR.

My background is that I'm a software developer (mostly embedded systems and 
security) who has enjoyed photography since I was 12 (1973). In late 2007 I 
bought a DSLR and have been doing it seriously (intermittent pro jobs, but 
mostly hobby) since then.  
I started using Lightroom on a mac in the early days of lightroom and did every 
upgrade through LR6, but have so far refused to switch to their ransomware 
business model. I've been looking for a replacement since.
The two at the top of my candidate list have been On1 and darktable.  I'm on an 
online discussion group for people who shoot with Pentax gear and one of the 
members posted that he was switching from LR to PR and another member said 
"welcome to the club".
PR2020 seemed nearly perfect, the one downside is that it won't run on Linux, 
I'd much rather ditch Apple as well since they won't build hardware I want that 
is remotely within my budget.
I spent the past few days trying PR2020 on my travel machine (MBP laptop 
running high sierra).
The migration from LR nearly worked, it did get the exif data, keywords and 
such, but only some of the editing information came over cleanly.  Mind you, 
there are only a couple thousand images on my travel machine, rather than 
almost 700,000 on my "everything" lightroom catalog.
At first I figured that I'd be fine just leaving that be, and only re-editing 
photos as the need arose.
The first major issue that I ran into is easily editing a bunch of photos at a 
time.  I tend to bracket my photos, want to sort out the under, nominal and 
over, and apply corrections to groups. Bump the exposure up and down a couple 
of stops, adjust highlights, or color balance.  Easy to do in lightroom's grid 
view, rather awkward in PR. 
I finally got to the point that I decided I could still use LR for their 
digital asset management, and use PR2020 for "final polish" photo editing. 
There are several things that PR2020 does that LR doesn't.  Two areas where I'm 
a bit disappointed in LRs performance are panoramas and HDR, primarily 
panoramas, in particular night time astro landscape panoramas.  
I don't have access to my astro-landscape pano raw frames, and it's tough to 
get clear skies in Oregon during December.  I did some daytime and sunset panos 
to test that out, and I'm afraid that PR2020 completely fell over on the 
panoramas.  I could send you links to jpegs if you want.
In the end, I've decided that as much as I would like to switch away from LR6, 
PR2020 just isn't quite ready.  
As I said, I do this professionally, if you want I could send you more detailed 
information and suggestions.  One big lack is beyond the migration tool, 
specific *written* instructions on how to do things in PR2020, and what you 
can't do, if you are used to doing them in LR, as well as how to do the cool 
things PR2020 will do that LR won't.
And for what it's worth, the damn snowflakes on your website were so annoying 
that if I wasn't so desperate to switch from Lightroom, I would have given up 
entirely rather than put up with them.
And, it turns out that after PR2020 crashed, twice, on my friend, he has 
decided not to make the switch either.  



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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Silly old me wrote:
> 
>> And then IT happened. PR crashed.
> 
> And yet again...
> 
> Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
> Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
> changes made to that picture were gone.
> 
> Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
> really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice 
letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.

One weird thing is that while I don’t remember if Lightroom *ever* crashed on 
me before, it may have a time or two, it crashed reliably the past few days 
when I’d press the import button. It seemed to happen when PR was running, 
though it might have been the flickr uploadr.  
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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 2:51 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've re-activated my old LR6 for the time being. The only thing that
> irritates me is that in its start-up screen LR6 now shows as "Creative
> Cloud Lightroom CC 2015.6.1" and I'm more than a little concerned about
> what will happen once my CC subscription runs out at the end of February.

You have to give it the LR6 serial number for it to work as LR6.



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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I too felt ON1 had a really nice product on first glance, and I do like some of 
its capabilities. But it isn't what I was looking for. 

G


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> ...
> Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
> really, it looked so promising at he beginning.


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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

>  On Dec 29, 2019, at 3:56 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 6:44 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I started a thread on this topic on their community support board:
>>> 
>>> https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360055861911-Switching-from-lightroom
>>> 
>>> I’ve run into another issue with Photo RAW, setting the white balance of a 
>>> group of photos based on a greycard.  
>> 
>> There are simply so many things that are far far easier to get done quickly 
>> and efficiently with Lightroom than with Photo RAW , I gave up on On1 
>> Photo RAW  as a suitable replacement. I worked at it pretty seriously 
>> for three weeks, after dabbling about with it for most of the past year, and 
>> came away unimpressed. 
>> 
>> No software should be that difficult to figure out and use efficiently. :)
> 
> I understand, that’s why I gave up on photoshop.
> 
> I’m coming to the conclusion that LR and PR have different primary and 
> secondary goals.  LR is much better at processing a lot of photos. PR has 
> some features (like layers) that are better for individual photos which LR 
> lacks.  If I pull the trigger on PR, my workflow will likely be to continue 
> to use LR on my first pass, and then when I have specific, challenging, 
> photos that I really want to put a lot of effort into, the layers and masks 
> of PR will make that job easier.

Without the DAM capabilities that LR has (and Photos, and Aperture, etc), all 
image processing apps are akin to a Photoshop at some level or another. PR's 
biggest advantage over Photoshop and Affinity Photo is that it is a 
parameter-based editing solution rather than a bit basher and leaves the 
original files untouched (although PS can do similarly when using Layers), so 
you always have access to the original files to re-start a rendering without 
having to go to backup files. 

The combination of LR and PS is powerful for precisely the reason you state: PS 
gives you extraordinary capability for the moments you need it, LR manages and 
handles large volumes of images, even on disconnected/offline volumes while 
providing enough rendering capability to do the job in a majority of cases. PR 
works best as an adjunct to Lightroom, IMO, for these same reasons. 

If the goal is to remove The Evil Empire from your workflow, the search for a 
useful alternative to Lightroom goes on. :)

My goal is to get my photography done the most sensible way possible while 
minimizing my dependence on Adobe's business policies.

G
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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Silly old me wrote:


And then IT happened. PR crashed.


And yet again...

Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
changes made to that picture were gone.

Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

Ralf

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Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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RE: Free at last!

[pdmlbw]

> -Original Message-
> From: PDML  On Behalf Of mike wilson
> Sent: 30 December 2019 10:51
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: Free at last!
> 
> > On 30 December 2019 at 06:17 Larry Colen  wrote:
> > Mind you, what I wish I could do is just aim my photo editing software at a
> directory, have it auto detect the bracketed frames it can make HDRs out of
> and just do it in the background.  Similarly, it could be nice if it could do 
> the
> same with with panoramas, though that’s a bit trickier, it would have to map
> out which images fit over other ones (maybe using the accelerometer data,
> and possibly compass and gps as clues).
> >
> 
> A simple cure for that is to magine how easy it would be with chemical
> processing.
> 

If you ingest the right chemicals you can imagine anything.



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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 29.12.19 um 03:44 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:


There are simply so many things that are far far easier to get done quickly and 
efficiently with Lightroom than with Photo RAW , I gave up on On1 Photo RAW 
 as a suitable replacement. I worked at it pretty seriously for three 
weeks, after dabbling about with it for most of the past year, and came away 
unimpressed.


I've been playing with ON1 Photo Raw some more, and it looks like I'll
let their great holiday offer go, bearing in mind that they've been
bombarding me per email with great offers for months on end. There will
certainly be another one in a week or two.

I've compared the results of the image export in Lightroom 6 (LR) and
ON1 Photo Raw 2020 (PR). In one example, I ended up with an export file
from LR where the license plate of a car in the picture was clearly
readable and totally unreadable in the file from PR. Overall,

There is very little control of the sharperning in PR's export module
and the settings ("Amazing Detail Finder" vs. "Fix Focus" or "Print
Glossy Portrait") are mysterious at best. Selecting "Screen" in PR, my
usual setting in LR for things I intend to blog or show on
Fotocommunity, gives a sharpening result I've last seen on the Amiga,
some 25 years ago: blurry with over-accentuated edges... horrible bokeh,
if you get the idea.

And then IT happened. PR crashed. Right in the middle of straightening a
photo. Never ever had a single crash with LR in all those years.

I've re-activated my old LR6 for the time being. The only thing that
irritates me is that in its start-up screen LR6 now shows as "Creative
Cloud Lightroom CC 2015.6.1" and I'm more than a little concerned about
what will happen once my CC subscription runs out at the end of February.

Ralf

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Re: Free at last!

[mike wilson]

> On 30 December 2019 at 06:17 Larry Colen  wrote:
> Mind you, what I wish I could do is just aim my photo editing software at a 
> directory, have it auto detect the bracketed frames it can make HDRs out of 
> and just do it in the background.  Similarly, it could be nice if it could do 
> the same with with panoramas, though that’s a bit trickier, it would have to 
> map out which images fit over other ones (maybe using the accelerometer data, 
> and possibly compass and gps as clues).
> 

A simple cure for that is to magine how easy it would be with chemical 
processing.

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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:39 PM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:
> 
> That's odd.  This one's a four or five shot pano and ON1 handled it pretty 
> well.
> 
> http://www.studio1941.com/Christmas%20Lawn%202019/index.html#img=Christmas%20Lawn-K3-IMGP4235%20Pano.jpg

Yes it did.  I went back and tried on a few others.  One worked, the next one 
didn’t.  When I accidentally hit compose an HDR rather than panorama, I wasn’t 
able to cancel without a force quite of PR.  Then when I restarted, it did a 
large panorama just fine up until it was almost done saving the PSD file, and 
then it just hung.

Another nice thing about lightroom is that once you get it previewed, it can 
just go and assemble HDRs and Panoramas in the background, but with PR you have 
to sit there and wait for it to finish each step of the way.

Mind you, what I wish I could do is just aim my photo editing software at a 
directory, have it auto detect the bracketed frames it can make HDRs out of and 
just do it in the background.  Similarly, it could be nice if it could do the 
same with with panoramas, though that’s a bit trickier, it would have to map 
out which images fit over other ones (maybe using the accelerometer data, and 
possibly compass and gps as clues).


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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 9:07 PM, Alan C  wrote:
> 
> Were you trying to double the size of the caravan?

Considering the condition of it, it’s more of a caravan-sorry.

> 
> Alan C
> 
> On 30-Dec-19 02:09 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
>> OK, On1 Photo Raw totally failed the panorama test.  Lightroom isn’t 
>> perfect, but it did a much better job on a simple merge
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712420222311
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: Free at last!

[Alan C]

Were you trying to double the size of the caravan?

Alan C

On 30-Dec-19 02:09 AM, Larry Colen wrote:

OK, On1 Photo Raw totally failed the panorama test.  Lightroom isn’t perfect, 
but it did a much better job on a simple merge

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712420222311







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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

That's odd.  This one's a four or five shot pano and ON1 handled it 
pretty well.


http://www.studio1941.com/Christmas%20Lawn%202019/index.html#img=Christmas%20Lawn-K3-IMGP4235%20Pano.jpg

-p

On 12/29/2019 6:09 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

OK, On1 Photo Raw totally failed the panorama test.  Lightroom isn’t perfect, 
but it did a much better job on a simple merge

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712420222311





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Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

OK, On1 Photo Raw totally failed the panorama test.  Lightroom isn’t perfect, 
but it did a much better job on a simple merge

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712420222311




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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 6:44 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> 
>> I started a thread on this topic on their community support board:
>> 
>> https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360055861911-Switching-from-lightroom
>> 
>> I’ve run into another issue with Photo RAW, setting the white balance of a 
>> group of photos based on a greycard.  
> 
> There are simply so many things that are far far easier to get done quickly 
> and efficiently with Lightroom than with Photo RAW , I gave up on On1 
> Photo RAW  as a suitable replacement. I worked at it pretty seriously for 
> three weeks, after dabbling about with it for most of the past year, and came 
> away unimpressed. 
> 
> No software should be that difficult to figure out and use efficiently. :)

I understand, that’s why I gave up on photoshop.

I’m coming to the conclusion that LR and PR have different primary and 
secondary goals.  LR is much better at processing a lot of photos. PR has some 
features (like layers) that are better for individual photos which LR lacks.  
If I pull the trigger on PR, my workflow will likely be to continue to use LR 
on my first pass, and then when I have specific, challenging, photos that I 
really want to put a lot of effort into, the layers and masks of PR will make 
that job easier.


> 
> G
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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> I started a thread on this topic on their community support board:
> 
> https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360055861911-Switching-from-lightroom
> 
> I’ve run into another issue with Photo RAW, setting the white balance of a 
> group of photos based on a greycard.  

There are simply so many things that are far far easier to get done quickly and 
efficiently with Lightroom than with Photo RAW , I gave up on On1 Photo RAW 
 as a suitable replacement. I worked at it pretty seriously for three 
weeks, after dabbling about with it for most of the past year, and came away 
unimpressed. 

No software should be that difficult to figure out and use efficiently. :)

G
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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

I started a thread on this topic on their community support board:

https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360055861911-Switching-from-lightroom

I’ve run into another issue with Photo RAW, setting the white balance of a 
group of photos based on a greycard.  

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 7:39 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>> 
>> Am 28.12.19 um 15:14 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:
>> 
>>> I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
>>> good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it.
>> 
>> Fair enough and I'm aware that I'm losing some very handy features. But
>> the idea of all my work being taken hostage by a company whose business
>> model is a glorified protection racket just doesn't appeal to me any
>> longer.
> 
> If it weren’t for the ransomware feature, I’d stay with lightroom.  If I had 
> better income, I’d still be tempted.  I have no interest in going through the 
> bother of learning photoshop, and especially not paying for it.
> 
>> 
>> Besides, it takes me one step closer to my next goal and that is freeing
>> myself from the tyranny of Apple.
> 
> That is the big advantage of darktable, it’ll run on Linux.  However, if I 
> switch to Doze, with Linux running in VMs for getting real work done, it’ll 
> be easier to back up the linux boxen. Also it seems that all the astrophoto 
> apps run on Doze.
> 
> One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
> mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  
> They also have focus stacking that could be handy. 
> 
> Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
> weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?
> 
> I suspect this might be a bug report.
> I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an 
> uninstall and reinstall of photo raw.
> When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, all 
> of my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported any 
> photos.
> 
> Related question
> Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?
> 
> Some of the photos seem to be getting the development data, some not.
> It’s also gone through and imported everything from my home directory.
> 
> I've been working on learning photo raw and importing my small lightroom 
> catalog on my travel computer.  
> None of the lightroom settings are coming over, I've tried various things, 
> and I'd like to delete all the photos from photo raw, but not from the hard 
> drive, and start all over.
> I've tried starting by holding the shift key.
> I've also tried deleting all of the .on1 files,
> it's still wedged.
> I can't find the database.
> How do I bring it back to "start”?
> 
> I'm reading the user guide and it doesn't mention an option for only 
> importing new photos.
> I can see two possibilities, if there is already a sidecar file, photo raw 
> could just skip that file. Or, it could copy the new file off of the memory 
> card of the camera to the new location (rather than just skipping it if its 
> there) and overwrite the sidecar file.
> 
> Your user guide on setting color labels says
> 6 (red), 7 (yellow), 8 (blue), 9 (green
> 
> but, like in lightroom
> 8 is green and 9 is blue
> 
> I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer at 
> home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
> backing up a lightroom catalog.  
> It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Free at last!

[John]

My brief experience with Lightroom was not quite a disaster, but it was close 
enough to make no never mind, so I never started using it.


I did go ahead and upgrade Photoshop to CS6 Extended when Adobe announced they 
were going down the rental-ware path and that CS6 would be the last version that 
did not require me to make monthly payments.


I've kind of followed Adobe's subsequent developments but they haven't 
introduced anything that I want or need since then, so I'm still happy with what 
I've got.


I'm glad y'all found alternatives that work for you & I hope quitting Adobe 
doesn't prove to be as big a hassle as quitting America On-Line used to be.


On 12/27/2019 18:17:28, Paul Sorenson wrote:
Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.  I've been using 
various iterations of their software for several years.  I still have LR 6.x 
installed but haven't used it in close to a year.  I think Dave Brooks uses a 
version of PhotoRAW and Larry has mentioned it in the past.


-p

On 12/27/2019 1:40 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.

Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
remember, but if you know who you are...

You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

Ralf

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Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de




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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

>> But your comments highlight one of my basic annoyances with On1: they do not 
>> document adequately the basic operations of the software itself, or make it 
>> particularly apparent without some insight and creativity of your own. 
> 
> That is also frustratingly true of Lightroom, it’s just that after ten years 
> of using lightroom I’ve gained some intuitive understanding.  When they 
> changed the editing engine, they specifically did not describe how all the 
> sliders work.

hmm. I've not found anything about how LR works (db management, preferences and 
file locations, etc) to be mysterious, and Adobe's LR tutorial videos that 
demonstrate the way the rendering controls work are all excellent. 

>> I used the migration tools with Lightroom 6.14 and they worked fine, if very 
>> very slowly. Took well over three days to finish processing the 190,000 
>> entries in my main LR database, and some were not convertable. I have a 
>> couple of dozen different LR catalogs, but three are critical to my photo 
>> work on an ongoing basis. Frankly, I don't trust On1 to process them all 
>> well enough that I could discard the LR catalogs. 
> 
> One reason that I’m sticking with LR6.  I can always go back to Lightroom and 
> work on the photos that are already in my catalogs. If I went to CC classic 
> then as soon as I stop paying the ransomware, I wouldn’t be able to.

Not sure about that. But it doesn't really matter to me since every time I 
finish a rendering, I output it and store it in a TIFF and/or JPEG output file. 
I consider work in progress files in LR to be like negatives, and don't care if 
I lose the preliminary edits I might have made. 

>> Basic message: On1 Photo RAW is not a DAM. Lightroom is like a DAM with 
>> image processing capabilities, not a file browser. 
> 
> DAM?

Data Asset Manager

>> On1 Photo RAW is an interesting app and has some usefulness, but for the 
>> present I've erased it from my system and am getting work done again with LR 
>> Classic. Next setup that I'm studying use of is Photos enhanced with RAW 
>> Power, as I mentioned before. Meanwhile LR Classic costs me $10 a month… 
>> Until I find the right replacement for LR, that's inexpensive compared to 
>> not getting my photography done. :-)
> 
> If I could upgrade and not lose the ability to work on things as soon as I 
> stop paying the ransomware I would.
> 
> It might be worth trying the upgrade and seeing if LR6 could handle the files 
> afterwards.

LR Classic updates the LR .lrcat and preview files; the updated catalog file is 
no longer compatible with LR 6.14. Archive your LR 6.14 catalog folders first 
(only need to archive the .lrcat file, it will generate the previews when 
needed). The original image files, of course, are always compatible since they 
are basically untouched. 

G
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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> 
>> ...
>> One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
>> mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  
>> They also have focus stacking that could be handy. 
> 
> There's much to like in On1's feature set. They have some nice things that LR 
> doesn't do. 
> 
> But your comments highlight one of my basic annoyances with On1: they do not 
> document adequately the basic operations of the software itself, or make it 
> particularly apparent without some insight and creativity of your own. 

That is also frustratingly true of Lightroom, it’s just that after ten years of 
using lightroom I’ve gained some intuitive understanding.  When they changed 
the editing engine, they specifically did not describe how all the sliders work.

> 
>> Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
>> weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?
>> ---
>>> I suspect this might be a bug report.
>>> I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an 
>>> uninstall and reinstall of photo raw.
>>> When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, 
>>> all of my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported 
>>> any photos.
> 
> There are at least two directories in ~/Library/Application Support with 
> names that start with "ON1" which contain a bunch of caches and subfolders 
> with small dbs in them. THOUSANDS of them. There is also a directory in 
> /Library/Application Support named "ON1", but mine had no visible files in 
> it. The uninstall app does not remove these directories, and only if they 
> (and all the XXX.on1 sidecar files paired with every original file that you 
> told the app to look at) are deleted do you get to the state of a fresh 
> installation. 
> 
>>> Related question
>>> Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?
> 
> I used the migration tools with Lightroom 6.14 and they worked fine, if very 
> very slowly. Took well over three days to finish processing the 190,000 
> entries in my main LR database, and some were not convertable. I have a 
> couple of dozen different LR catalogs, but three are critical to my photo 
> work on an ongoing basis. Frankly, I don't trust On1 to process them all well 
> enough that I could discard the LR catalogs. 

One reason that I’m sticking with LR6.  I can always go back to Lightroom and 
work on the photos that are already in my catalogs. If I went to CC classic 
then as soon as I stop paying the ransomware, I wouldn’t be able to.


> 
> As I said, operation of the software is unclear. I'm not in love with any 
> software that litters my storage drives with its sidecar files in tons of 
> places that I don't know about or expect. When I wrote a script to remove all 
> the .on1 sidecar files from my working external drive, it deleted 238,000 
> small files. (!) 

Yeah, there are some real issues with the way they do that.

> 
>>> I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer 
>>> at home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
>>> backing up a lightroom catalog.  
>>> It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.
> 
> There's no way internal to the app that I've found. The external way is to 
> simply use backup software that manages backing up and archiving the 
> directories that On1 has been told to process as well as the sub-directories 
> in /Library/Application Software and ~/Library/Application Software that I 
> mentioned above. 
> 
> Basic message: On1 Photo RAW is not a DAM. Lightroom is like a DAM with image 
> processing capabilities, not a file browser. 

DAM?

> 
> On1 Photo RAW is an interesting app and has some usefulness, but for the 
> present I've erased it from my system and am getting work done again with LR 
> Classic. Next setup that I'm studying use of is Photos enhanced with RAW 
> Power, as I mentioned before. Meanwhile LR Classic costs me $10 a month… 
> Until I find the right replacement for LR, that's inexpensive compared to not 
> getting my photography done. :-)

If I could upgrade and not lose the ability to work on things as soon as I stop 
paying the ransomware I would.

It might be worth trying the upgrade and seeing if LR6 could handle the files 
afterwards.



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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> ...
> One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
> mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  
> They also have focus stacking that could be handy. 

There's much to like in On1's feature set. They have some nice things that LR 
doesn't do. 

But your comments highlight one of my basic annoyances with On1: they do not 
document adequately the basic operations of the software itself, or make it 
particularly apparent without some insight and creativity of your own. 

> Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
> weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?
> ---
>> I suspect this might be a bug report.
>> I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an 
>> uninstall and reinstall of photo raw.
>> When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, all 
>> of my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported any 
>> photos.

There are at least two directories in ~/Library/Application Support with names 
that start with "ON1" which contain a bunch of caches and subfolders with small 
dbs in them. THOUSANDS of them. There is also a directory in 
/Library/Application Support named "ON1", but mine had no visible files in it. 
The uninstall app does not remove these directories, and only if they (and all 
the XXX.on1 sidecar files paired with every original file that you told the app 
to look at) are deleted do you get to the state of a fresh installation. 

>> Related question
>> Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?

I used the migration tools with Lightroom 6.14 and they worked fine, if very 
very slowly. Took well over three days to finish processing the 190,000 entries 
in my main LR database, and some were not convertable. I have a couple of dozen 
different LR catalogs, but three are critical to my photo work on an ongoing 
basis. Frankly, I don't trust On1 to process them all well enough that I could 
discard the LR catalogs. 

>> Some of the photos seem to be getting the development data, some not.
>> It’s also gone through and imported everything from my home directory.
>> I've been working on learning photo raw and importing my small lightroom 
>> catalog on my travel computer.  
>> None of the lightroom settings are coming over, I've tried various things, 
>> and I'd like to delete all the photos from photo raw, but not from the hard 
>> drive, and start all over.
>> I've tried starting by holding the shift key.
>> I've also tried deleting all of the .on1 files,
>> it's still wedged.
>> I can't find the database.
>> How do I bring it back to "start”?
>> 
On1 Photo RAW  should only look at the directory tree that you tell it the 
root of. Of course, if you're doing an LR conversion and that tree in the LR 
database has any link to the root of your user directory, it will one way or 
another process your entire user directory (and possibly litter it with .on1 
sidecar files). 

Some photos it understands the rendering parameters, others not. I haven't 
figured out the whys and wherefores of that. All standard IPTC data is ingested 
and some EXIF data, it seems, on a file by file basis. For some LR operations 
it renders out a TIFF, I think. For others, it cannot read the parametric 
instructions and it drops the ball completely. 

As I said, operation of the software is unclear. I'm not in love with any 
software that litters my storage drives with its sidecar files in tons of 
places that I don't know about or expect. When I wrote a script to remove all 
the .on1 sidecar files from my working external drive, it deleted 238,000 small 
files. (!) 

>> I'm reading the user guide and it doesn't mention an option for only 
>> importing new photos.
>> I can see two possibilities, if there is already a sidecar file, photo raw 
>> could just skip that file. Or, it could copy the new file off of the memory 
>> card of the camera to the new location (rather than just skipping it if its 
>> there) and overwrite the sidecar file.

On1 Photo RAW operates like a file browser with image processing capabilities. 
If you only want to import new photos, be careful not to import your Lightroom 
catalog, create a new directory for each new import, and then add that new 
directory explicitly to the On1 app's "known file locations" so it can process 
the new files. Clumsy at best. 

>> I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer at 
>> home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
>> backing up a lightroom catalog.  
>> It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.

There's no way internal to the app that I've found. The external way is to 
simply use backup software that manages backing up and archiving the 
directories that On1 has been told to process as well as the 

Re: Free at last!

[lrc]

I'll probably just go for the cheap one

On December 28, 2019 7:47:33 AM PST, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>Am 28.12.19 um 01:36 schrieb Larry Colen:
>
>> This motivated me to give a look, they do seem to be having a holiday
>sale going on for a few more days.
>
>I'm still trying to figure out which of the three 'holiday special'
>options to go for:
>
>- ON1 Photo RAW at 79.99 USD
>
>- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus at 129.99
>
>- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus Pro at also 129.99
>
>I'm somewhat unimpressed by the 1 year Smugmug membership included in
>all three of them. Yet another ransom scheme.
>
>Does anyone here have Plus or Plus Pro? Is it worth the money?
>
>Ralf
>
>--
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>Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
>Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
>Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
>
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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 7:39 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Am 28.12.19 um 15:14 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:
> 
>> I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
>> good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it.
> 
> Fair enough and I'm aware that I'm losing some very handy features. But
> the idea of all my work being taken hostage by a company whose business
> model is a glorified protection racket just doesn't appeal to me any
> longer.

If it weren’t for the ransomware feature, I’d stay with lightroom.  If I had 
better income, I’d still be tempted.  I have no interest in going through the 
bother of learning photoshop, and especially not paying for it.

> 
> Besides, it takes me one step closer to my next goal and that is freeing
> myself from the tyranny of Apple.

That is the big advantage of darktable, it’ll run on Linux.  However, if I 
switch to Doze, with Linux running in VMs for getting real work done, it’ll be 
easier to back up the linux boxen. Also it seems that all the astrophoto apps 
run on Doze.

One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  They 
also have focus stacking that could be handy. 

Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?

I suspect this might be a bug report.
I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an uninstall 
and reinstall of photo raw.
When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, all of 
my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported any photos.

Related question
Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?

Some of the photos seem to be getting the development data, some not.
It’s also gone through and imported everything from my home directory.

I've been working on learning photo raw and importing my small lightroom 
catalog on my travel computer.  
None of the lightroom settings are coming over, I've tried various things, and 
I'd like to delete all the photos from photo raw, but not from the hard drive, 
and start all over.
I've tried starting by holding the shift key.
I've also tried deleting all of the .on1 files,
it's still wedged.
I can't find the database.
How do I bring it back to "start”?

I'm reading the user guide and it doesn't mention an option for only importing 
new photos.
I can see two possibilities, if there is already a sidecar file, photo raw 
could just skip that file. Or, it could copy the new file off of the memory 
card of the camera to the new location (rather than just skipping it if its 
there) and overwrite the sidecar file.

Your user guide on setting color labels says
6 (red), 7 (yellow), 8 (blue), 9 (green

but, like in lightroom
8 is green and 9 is blue

I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer at 
home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
backing up a lightroom catalog.  
It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.



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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

Not hardly a fair comparison to compare software you've tried for 
several weeks to software you've been using for years.


-p

On 12/28/2019 8:14 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

Might have been me, Ralf. Not sure.

I have been working with On1 for several weeks, and finding the organization 
and UI increasingly frustrating. The instructional aids are crappy (yes, there 
is a manual that you can download from the On1 website .. it's better than the 
videos IMO but not much). To the extent that I actually stopped using it and 
installed Lightroom Classic on my Catalina system.. I can get so much more done 
with Lightroom in so little time. Sigh. There are things about Adobe in general 
that make my skin crawl, but that which works best for my photography is what 
I'm after.

I only downloaded Lr Classic … I haven't touched Photoshop in years, and in the 
extraordinarily rare moments when I might need something it has, Affinity Photo 
does as well.

I don't think the $80 I spent on On1 Photo RAW is a waste. It can work as a 
plug in to Lr and has some additional capabilities that work well. I just think 
it's overall UI and workflow is not up to what I want/need for my photography.

My next stab at total Adobe removal is going to be RAW Power by Gentlemen 
Coders. It has the additional advantage of being able to run all three—macOS, 
iOS, and iPadOS—and works in tight conjunction wiith Photos and the existing 
Photos image libraries. I've dabbled with it and so far like it. To evaluate it 
effectively, I will make an effort to actually learn Photos as well as RAW 
Power.

I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it. Sigh again.

G


On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.

Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
remember, but if you know who you are...

You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

Ralf



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Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 01:36 schrieb Larry Colen:


This motivated me to give a look, they do seem to be having a holiday sale 
going on for a few more days.


I'm still trying to figure out which of the three 'holiday special'
options to go for:

- ON1 Photo RAW at 79.99 USD

- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus at 129.99

- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus Pro at also 129.99

I'm somewhat unimpressed by the 1 year Smugmug membership included in
all three of them. Yet another ransom scheme.

Does anyone here have Plus or Plus Pro? Is it worth the money?

Ralf

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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

Unless they have changed their policies very recently, that's not 
correct.  You don't need to have the Pro Plus to get updates to the 
current version throughout the year.  When a completely new version 
comes out the cost to upgrade has typically been around 80 USD - or you 
can keep using your current version as long as you like.


-p

On 12/28/2019 3:56 AM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Am 28.12.19 um 00:17 schrieb Paul Sorenson:

Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.


Then again, I've had a closer look at their offer, last night. If you
want to stay up-to-date with their current versions you'll have to
subscribe to their Pro Plus scheme at 145 euros per year which is the
same price as Adobe's CC rate for LR and PS. What a coincidence...

The difference being that with ON1 you can still use the software after
you've ended your subscription but OTOH you don't get the added benefit
of Photoshop.

To quote a famous German soccer player: sometimes you lose, sometimes
the others win.

Still, ON1 it will be from now on.

Ralf

--
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Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de


--
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Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 15:14 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:


I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it.


Fair enough and I'm aware that I'm losing some very handy features. But
the idea of all my work being taken hostage by a company whose business
model is a glorified protection racket just doesn't appeal to me any
longer.

Besides, it takes me one step closer to my next goal and that is freeing
myself from the tyranny of Apple.

Ralf

--
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Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

No written tutorial per se but you can download the manual here...

https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206373527--ON1-User-Guides

-p

On 12/27/2019 7:58 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.

Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
remember, but if you know who you are...

You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

I’ve installed the 30 day trial on my laptop (I’m out of town for a bit) and am 
giving it a try on my laptop. I’m not certain that I’ll be able to run it on my 
desktop machine. It’s a 4,1 mac pro that I’ll be updating to high sierra when I 
get home (after the holiday special ends).

Is there a good written intro tutorial for photo raw?  I absolutely despise 
watching videos.



Ralf

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Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Stenquist]

I’m still using Photoshop for digital rendering as I have since day one. It’s 
so familiar that my workflow is effortless and automatic and I have immediate 
access to it’s more esoteric capabilities when needed. Bit Im still running 
CS6, so I can’t upgrade my Mac OS beyond High Sierra (as far as I know.) 
someday I’ll have to switch or subscribe to the cloud version.

Paul

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> 
> Might have been me, Ralf. Not sure. 
> 
> I have been working with On1 for several weeks, and finding the organization 
> and UI increasingly frustrating. The instructional aids are crappy (yes, 
> there is a manual that you can download from the On1 website .. it's better 
> than the videos IMO but not much). To the extent that I actually stopped 
> using it and installed Lightroom Classic on my Catalina system.. I can get so 
> much more done with Lightroom in so little time. Sigh. There are things about 
> Adobe in general that make my skin crawl, but that which works best for my 
> photography is what I'm after. 
> 
> I only downloaded Lr Classic … I haven't touched Photoshop in years, and in 
> the extraordinarily rare moments when I might need something it has, Affinity 
> Photo does as well. 
> 
> I don't think the $80 I spent on On1 Photo RAW is a waste. It can work as a 
> plug in to Lr and has some additional capabilities that work well. I just 
> think it's overall UI and workflow is not up to what I want/need for my 
> photography.
> 
> My next stab at total Adobe removal is going to be RAW Power by Gentlemen 
> Coders. It has the additional advantage of being able to run all three—macOS, 
> iOS, and iPadOS—and works in tight conjunction wiith Photos and the existing 
> Photos image libraries. I've dabbled with it and so far like it. To evaluate 
> it effectively, I will make an effort to actually learn Photos as well as RAW 
> Power. 
> 
> I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
> good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it. Sigh again. 
> 
> G
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>> 
>> Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
>> 
>> Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
>> remember, but if you know who you are...
>> 
>> You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
>> 
>> Ralf
> 
> 
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> the directions.


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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Might have been me, Ralf. Not sure. 

I have been working with On1 for several weeks, and finding the organization 
and UI increasingly frustrating. The instructional aids are crappy (yes, there 
is a manual that you can download from the On1 website .. it's better than the 
videos IMO but not much). To the extent that I actually stopped using it and 
installed Lightroom Classic on my Catalina system.. I can get so much more done 
with Lightroom in so little time. Sigh. There are things about Adobe in general 
that make my skin crawl, but that which works best for my photography is what 
I'm after. 

I only downloaded Lr Classic … I haven't touched Photoshop in years, and in the 
extraordinarily rare moments when I might need something it has, Affinity Photo 
does as well. 

I don't think the $80 I spent on On1 Photo RAW is a waste. It can work as a 
plug in to Lr and has some additional capabilities that work well. I just think 
it's overall UI and workflow is not up to what I want/need for my photography.

My next stab at total Adobe removal is going to be RAW Power by Gentlemen 
Coders. It has the additional advantage of being able to run all three—macOS, 
iOS, and iPadOS—and works in tight conjunction wiith Photos and the existing 
Photos image libraries. I've dabbled with it and so far like it. To evaluate it 
effectively, I will make an effort to actually learn Photos as well as RAW 
Power. 

I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it. Sigh again. 

G

> On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
> 
> Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
> remember, but if you know who you are...
> 
> You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
> 
> Ralf


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Re: Free at last!

[David J Brooks]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 6:18 PM Paul Sorenson  wrote:

> Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.  I've been
> using various iterations of their software for several years.  I still
> have LR 6.x installed but haven't used it in close to a year.  I think
> Dave Brooks uses a version of PhotoRAW and Larry has mentioned it in the
> past.
>

I still have LR6 standalone and use the ON1 2018 version on occasion. Im
still learning where ON1 hides sttuff.:-)

Dave


> -p
>
> On 12/27/2019 1:40 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:
> > Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
> >
> > Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
> > remember, but if you know who you are...
> >
> > You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
> >
> > Ralf
> >
> > --
> > Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> > Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> > Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> > Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
> >
> --
> Paul Sorenson
> Studio1941
>
> Sooner or later "different" scares people.
>
>
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Re: Free at last!

[Bob Pdml]

> On 28 Dec 2019, at 09:56, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
> To quote a famous German soccer player: sometimes you lose, sometimes
> the others win.
> 
> 

We have a similar quote from a famous English player: football's a simple game 
- 22 men chase a ball around for 90 minutes and at the end Germany win.



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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 00:17 schrieb Paul Sorenson:

Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.


Then again, I've had a closer look at their offer, last night. If you
want to stay up-to-date with their current versions you'll have to
subscribe to their Pro Plus scheme at 145 euros per year which is the
same price as Adobe's CC rate for LR and PS. What a coincidence...

The difference being that with ON1 you can still use the software after
you've ended your subscription but OTOH you don't get the added benefit
of Photoshop.

To quote a famous German soccer player: sometimes you lose, sometimes
the others win.

Still, ON1 it will be from now on.

Ralf

--
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Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 01:36 schrieb Larry Colen:


The only problem is that some idiot decided that it would be cute to have a 
bunch of snowflakes drifting across their website, and they are driving me 
crazy(er).


...and apparently this nonsense is wasting a lot of energy. While I have
their website open with the stupid snowfall my Mac Mini get's
increasingly noisy with the CPU reaching 90 deg c and the processor fan
running at 5000 rpm. Things get quiet again as soon as I close that window.

No such prob on the Macbook Pro where it seems the GPU takes care of the
snow (the Mini has no GPU).

Ralf

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Re: Free at last!

[mike wilson]

> On 27 December 2019 at 20:49 Postmaster  wrote:
> 
> 
> Ralf R Radermacher wrote:
> 
> >Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
> >
> >Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
> >remember, but if you know who you are...
> >
> >You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
> 
> Isn't it nice that we still have a choice these days?
> 
> I'm convinced Adobe models itself after the airline industry in
> regards to customer service. Probably RyanAir in particular...

The only fault is that ON1 equates PC with later versions of Windows.  
Confusing hardware with an operating system is the sort of mistake I would 
expect from the more knuckle-dragging student rather than a software 
development company.

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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
> 
> Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
> remember, but if you know who you are...
> 
> You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

I’ve installed the 30 day trial on my laptop (I’m out of town for a bit) and am 
giving it a try on my laptop. I’m not certain that I’ll be able to run it on my 
desktop machine. It’s a 4,1 mac pro that I’ll be updating to high sierra when I 
get home (after the holiday special ends).

Is there a good written intro tutorial for photo raw?  I absolutely despise 
watching videos.  


> 
> Ralf
> 
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
> 
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> the directions.
> 


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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 27, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:
> 
> Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.  I've been using 
> various iterations of their software for several years.  I still have LR 6.x 
> installed but haven't used it in close to a year.  I think Dave Brooks uses a 
> version of PhotoRAW and Larry has mentioned it in the past.

This motivated me to give a look, they do seem to be having a holiday sale 
going on for a few more days.

The only problem is that some idiot decided that it would be cute to have a 
bunch of snowflakes drifting across their website, and they are driving me 
crazy(er).

> 
> -p
> 
> On 12/27/2019 1:40 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:
>> Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
>> 
>> Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
>> remember, but if you know who you are...
>> 
>> You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
>> 
>> Ralf
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
>> Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
>> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
>> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
>> 
> -- 
> Paul Sorenson
> Studio1941
> 
> Sooner or later "different" scares people.
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.  I've been 
using various iterations of their software for several years.  I still 
have LR 6.x installed but haven't used it in close to a year.  I think 
Dave Brooks uses a version of PhotoRAW and Larry has mentioned it in the 
past.


-p

On 12/27/2019 1:40 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.

Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
remember, but if you know who you are...

You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de


--
Paul Sorenson
Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Postmaster]

Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

>Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
>
>Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
>remember, but if you know who you are...
>
>You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

Isn't it nice that we still have a choice these days?

I'm convinced Adobe models itself after the airline industry in
regards to customer service. Probably RyanAir in particular...

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Re: Free at last...

[Maciej Marchlewski]

Dnia 22-08-2002 o godz. 5:11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisal(a):
 To paraphrase Martin Luther King...
 Free at last, Free at last, thank God Almighty we are free at 
last!
 
 I did a liberating thing today.
 I deleted 90% of the traffic from this list.
 No more Lets get real folks,
 No more DSLR
 No more Flagship
 
 I didn't read the messages.
 I won't go back and get them.
 And I won't miss them G.

Doing the same thing here - makes reading PDML much faster, 
easier and more enjoyable.
I tried to follow this threads but at some point found it too 
much time consuming.

Regards

Maciej

---
Teraz MARZENIA si speniaj! Zamw kredyt mieszkaniowy
BEZ OPAT! Kliknij!  http://pasazfin.wp.pl/ge.html?POD=5 
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