Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[John]

Looked like a weak attempt to start another pun thread to me.

On 7/12/2016 2:15 AM, mike wilson wrote:

Is that Pirate or Ebonics?


On 12 July 2016 at 02:15 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:


Well, the new British PM May be a woman.  


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[mike wilson]

Is that Pirate or Ebonics?

> On 12 July 2016 at 02:15 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, the new British PM May be a woman.  
> 
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Gonz  wrote:
> 
> > Hear hear!
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 1:33 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> > > On 9 Jul 2016, at 01:48, Stanley Halpin 
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Jul 8, 2016, at 5:44 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> The EU certainly needs reforming, but not necessarily in the ways that
> > tories such as Fellowes want, and the UK should have been part of it; in
> > fact, leading the reform, effectively, and not just grandstanding for the
> > sake of the loonies in their respective parties.
> > >>>
> > >>> B
> > >>
> > >> Is there a chance you could run for PM? A terrible job but hopefully
> > someone somewhat sane will take it on…
> > >
> > > I'm of the party that believes that anyone who puts themselves forward
> > for leadership is automatically disqualified.
> > >

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Paul]

The whole god damn world is insane. Photograph it.

Stringer


That should be worth a MARK!!

-p

"I like photographs but my ability for critique is limited to some
expression of "I like it".
Otherwise "I don't like it" (probably a bug or snake) or indifferent
(probably a cat)."

-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Daniel J. Matyola
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 1:00 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: OT Brexit Aftermath

Politics in the US is insane.  It appears almost rational, however, compared
with what has been going on in England and Europe after the Brexit vote.

Is this right?  The PM resigned, and then the Brexit leaders in his party,
Johnson and Gove, said they are not interested in the job, leaving the field
open to a steon Remain Supporter.  Farange, who started it all, said "My
work here is done," and resigned the leadershipof his party., but remains a
member of the European Parliament.  The Labour Leader won't quit, so
everyone else in his party leadership quit instead.  No one on either side
of the referendum made any plans for what to do if Leave won, and the
current PM refuses to do anything, leaving it up to his successor, who may
be opposed to leaving.  Europe wants Britain to leave now, but Britain
refuses to do anything.  Even if they do, the Scots may have veto power over
the UK's withdrawal, and everyone in Northern Ireland appears to be applying
for Irish passports.

This is a rude analysis of the situation:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe?utm_term=.tjW
BLd0vL_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=Ne
ws%20-%200704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzF
eed%20Newsletters#.fervzm5qz

And Down Under, things have taken a pretty strange turn as well:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/robstott/oh-god-oh-god-oh-god?utm_term=.ek5BnVRXn
tm_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=News%20-%2
00704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzFeed%20Ne
wsletters#.ivggOx4XO

It appears to me that the only person who can look at this without screaming
out loudnis Putin, the Mad Russian.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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RE: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Mark Stringer]

The whole god damn world is insane.  Photograph it.

Stringer
"I like photographs but my ability for critique is limited to some
expression of "I like it".  
Otherwise "I don't like it" (probably a bug or snake) or indifferent
(probably a cat)."

-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Daniel J. Matyola
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2016 1:00 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: OT Brexit Aftermath

Politics in the US is insane.  It appears almost rational, however, compared
with what has been going on in England and Europe after the Brexit vote.

Is this right?  The PM resigned, and then the Brexit leaders in his party,
Johnson and Gove, said they are not interested in the job, leaving the field
open to a steon Remain Supporter.  Farange, who started it all, said "My
work here is done," and resigned the leadershipof his party., but remains a
member of the European Parliament.  The Labour Leader won't quit, so
everyone else in his party leadership quit instead.  No one on either side
of the referendum made any plans for what to do if Leave won, and the
current PM refuses to do anything, leaving it up to his successor, who may
be opposed to leaving.  Europe wants Britain to leave now, but Britain
refuses to do anything.  Even if they do, the Scots may have veto power over
the UK's withdrawal, and everyone in Northern Ireland appears to be applying
for Irish passports.

This is a rude analysis of the situation:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe?utm_term=.tjW
BLd0vL_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=Ne
ws%20-%200704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzF
eed%20Newsletters#.fervzm5qz

And Down Under, things have taken a pretty strange turn as well:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/robstott/oh-god-oh-god-oh-god?utm_term=.ek5BnVRXn
tm_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=News%20-%2
00704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzFeed%20Ne
wsletters#.ivggOx4XO

It appears to me that the only person who can look at this without screaming
out loudnis Putin, the Mad Russian.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Well, the new British PM May be a woman.  


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Gonz  wrote:

> Hear hear!
>
> On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 1:33 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> > On 9 Jul 2016, at 01:48, Stanley Halpin 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jul 8, 2016, at 5:44 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The EU certainly needs reforming, but not necessarily in the ways that
> tories such as Fellowes want, and the UK should have been part of it; in
> fact, leading the reform, effectively, and not just grandstanding for the
> sake of the loonies in their respective parties.
> >>>
> >>> B
> >>
> >> Is there a chance you could run for PM? A terrible job but hopefully
> someone somewhat sane will take it on…
> >
> > I'm of the party that believes that anyone who puts themselves forward
> for leadership is automatically disqualified.
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Gonz]

Hear hear!

On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 1:33 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2016, at 01:48, Stanley Halpin  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 8, 2016, at 5:44 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>>>
>>> The EU certainly needs reforming, but not necessarily in the ways that 
>>> tories such as Fellowes want, and the UK should have been part of it; in 
>>> fact, leading the reform, effectively, and not just grandstanding for the 
>>> sake of the loonies in their respective parties.
>>>
>>> B
>>
>> Is there a chance you could run for PM? A terrible job but hopefully someone 
>> somewhat sane will take it on…
>
> I'm of the party that believes that anyone who puts themselves forward for 
> leadership is automatically disqualified.
>
> B
>
>
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Bob W-PDML]

On 9 Jul 2016, at 01:48, Stanley Halpin  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2016, at 5:44 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>> 
>> The EU certainly needs reforming, but not necessarily in the ways that 
>> tories such as Fellowes want, and the UK should have been part of it; in 
>> fact, leading the reform, effectively, and not just grandstanding for the 
>> sake of the loonies in their respective parties. 
>> 
>> B
> 
> Is there a chance you could run for PM? A terrible job but hopefully someone 
> somewhat sane will take it on…

I'm of the party that believes that anyone who puts themselves forward for 
leadership is automatically disqualified.

B


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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Stanley Halpin]

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 5:44 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> 
> The EU certainly needs reforming, but not necessarily in the ways that tories 
> such as Fellowes want, and the UK should have been part of it; in fact, 
> leading the reform, effectively, and not just grandstanding for the sake of 
> the loonies in their respective parties. 
> 
> B

Is there a chance you could run for PM? A terrible job but hopefully someone 
somewhat sane will take it on…

Over here we’ve had our share of “leaders" grandstanding (pandering I should 
say) to the loonies; Trump and Sanders come to mind…

stan
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Bob W-PDML]

He misrepresents the position, trotting out some of the standard Leave claims 
in a very caricatural way.

The EU certainly needs reforming, but not necessarily in the ways that tories 
such as Fellowes want, and the UK should have been part of it; in fact, leading 
the reform, effectively, and not just grandstanding for the sake of the loonies 
in their respective parties. 

B

> On 8 Jul 2016, at 21:08, John  wrote:
> 
> Scroll down the page and there's a transcript.
> 
>> On 7/8/2016 3:38 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
>> Rather than force us all to listen to the pompous ass for the whole
>> thing, perhaps you could summarise the reasons for us.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>>> On 8 Jul 2016, at 20:31, John  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show on NPR yesterday and near the end
>>> of the interview with Julian Fellows they touched on Brexit. His
>>> comments are the first time I've heard anyone articulate reasons for
>>> leaving the EU that I could really understand.
>>> 
>>> https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-07-07/julian-fellowes-belgravia
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> On 7/8/2016 11:56 AM, steve harley wrote:
> On 2016-07-06 11:42 , Steve Cottrell wrote:
> Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
> conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
> with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.
 
 i'm just reading this thread through today, and (though i've followed it
 closely elsewhere) it's very helpful to me to hear the articulations of
 a few European individuals on the subject …
 
 your statement above resonates with the concepts of federalism and
 state's rights in the US, which in essence balance  power between the
 national and state governments and promote the states' keeping (some of)
 their individuality
 
 one could say that over centuries, much "blending" has occurred, but
 that it was a gradual process and there is still plenty of room for
 difference among the states; unfortunately some of the major differences
 are in equality and human rights
 
 just a thought: i wonder if the US states were less "individualistic" if
 there would be more or fewer gay-bashing laws, more or less horrible
 prison treatment, poverty, defunding of education, etc.? in addition,
 we've had several of our own influxes of immigrants which have prompted
 waves of intolerance, and there is much variance among the states in
 attitudes toward same
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
>>> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>>> 
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[John]

Scroll down the page and there's a transcript.

On 7/8/2016 3:38 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

Rather than force us all to listen to the pompous ass for the whole
thing, perhaps you could summarise the reasons for us.

B


On 8 Jul 2016, at 20:31, John  wrote:

I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show on NPR yesterday and near the end
of the interview with Julian Fellows they touched on Brexit. His
comments are the first time I've heard anyone articulate reasons for
leaving the EU that I could really understand.

https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-07-07/julian-fellowes-belgravia




On 7/8/2016 11:56 AM, steve harley wrote:

On 2016-07-06 11:42 , Steve Cottrell wrote:
Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.


i'm just reading this thread through today, and (though i've followed it
closely elsewhere) it's very helpful to me to hear the articulations of
a few European individuals on the subject …

your statement above resonates with the concepts of federalism and
state's rights in the US, which in essence balance  power between the
national and state governments and promote the states' keeping (some of)
their individuality

one could say that over centuries, much "blending" has occurred, but
that it was a gradual process and there is still plenty of room for
difference among the states; unfortunately some of the major differences
are in equality and human rights

just a thought: i wonder if the US states were less "individualistic" if
there would be more or fewer gay-bashing laws, more or less horrible
prison treatment, poverty, defunding of education, etc.? in addition,
we've had several of our own influxes of immigrants which have prompted
waves of intolerance, and there is much variance among the states in
attitudes toward same


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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[John]

Listening to it again now, but the "player" on their web site doesn't 
allow me to download it as a podcast, so it might be a bit difficult to 
transcribe. I'll give it a try, but don't expect much.


On 7/8/2016 3:38 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

Rather than force us all to listen to the pompous ass for the whole
thing, perhaps you could summarise the reasons for us.

B

On 8 Jul 2016, at 20:31, John  wrote:

I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show on NPR yesterday and near the end
of the interview with Julian Fellows they touched on Brexit. His
comments are the first time I've heard anyone articulate reasons for
leaving the EU that I could really understand.

https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-07-07/julian-fellowes-belgravia






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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 8/7/16, Jaume Lahuerta, discombobulated, unleashed:

>It has been a pleasure, thanks for the conversation !

Cheers mate

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Bob W-PDML]

Rather than force us all to listen to the pompous ass for the whole thing, 
perhaps you could summarise the reasons for us.

B

> On 8 Jul 2016, at 20:31, John  wrote:
> 
> I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show on NPR yesterday and near the end
> of the interview with Julian Fellows they touched on Brexit. His
> comments are the first time I've heard anyone articulate reasons for
> leaving the EU that I could really understand.
> 
> https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-07-07/julian-fellowes-belgravia
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7/8/2016 11:56 AM, steve harley wrote:
>>> On 2016-07-06 11:42 , Steve Cottrell wrote:
>>> Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
>>> conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
>>> with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.
>> 
>> i'm just reading this thread through today, and (though i've followed it
>> closely elsewhere) it's very helpful to me to hear the articulations of
>> a few European individuals on the subject …
>> 
>> your statement above resonates with the concepts of federalism and
>> state's rights in the US, which in essence balance  power between the
>> national and state governments and promote the states' keeping (some of)
>> their individuality
>> 
>> one could say that over centuries, much "blending" has occurred, but
>> that it was a gradual process and there is still plenty of room for
>> difference among the states; unfortunately some of the major differences
>> are in equality and human rights
>> 
>> just a thought: i wonder if the US states were less "individualistic" if
>> there would be more or fewer gay-bashing laws, more or less horrible
>> prison treatment, poverty, defunding of education, etc.? in addition,
>> we've had several of our own influxes of immigrants which have prompted
>> waves of intolerance, and there is much variance among the states in
>> attitudes toward same
> 
> -- 
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
> 
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[John]

I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show on NPR yesterday and near the end
of the interview with Julian Fellows they touched on Brexit. His
comments are the first time I've heard anyone articulate reasons for
leaving the EU that I could really understand.

https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-07-07/julian-fellowes-belgravia



On 7/8/2016 11:56 AM, steve harley wrote:

On 2016-07-06 11:42 , Steve Cottrell wrote:

Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.


i'm just reading this thread through today, and (though i've followed it
closely elsewhere) it's very helpful to me to hear the articulations of
a few European individuals on the subject …

your statement above resonates with the concepts of federalism and
state's rights in the US, which in essence balance  power between the
national and state governments and promote the states' keeping (some of)
their individuality

one could say that over centuries, much "blending" has occurred, but
that it was a gradual process and there is still plenty of room for
difference among the states; unfortunately some of the major differences
are in equality and human rights

just a thought: i wonder if the US states were less "individualistic" if
there would be more or fewer gay-bashing laws, more or less horrible
prison treatment, poverty, defunding of education, etc.? in addition,
we've had several of our own influxes of immigrants which have prompted
waves of intolerance, and there is much variance among the states in
attitudes toward same



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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[steve harley]

On 2016-07-06 11:42 , Steve Cottrell wrote:

Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.


i'm just reading this thread through today, and (though i've followed it 
closely elsewhere) it's very helpful to me to hear the articulations of a 
few European individuals on the subject …


your statement above resonates with the concepts of federalism and state's 
rights in the US, which in essence balance  power between the national and 
state governments and promote the states' keeping (some of) their individuality


one could say that over centuries, much "blending" has occurred, but that it 
was a gradual process and there is still plenty of room for difference among 
the states; unfortunately some of the major differences are in equality and 
human rights


just a thought: i wonder if the US states were less "individualistic" if 
there would be more or fewer gay-bashing laws, more or less horrible prison 
treatment, poverty, defunding of education, etc.? in addition, we've had 
several of our own influxes of immigrants which have prompted waves of 
intolerance, and there is much variance among the states in attitudes toward 
same


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the directions.

Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Apparently, Gove was eliminated in the first round of voting for Tory
leader, and the final choice is between two women, Theresa May and Andrea
Leadsom.  I gather the latter was a leader of the LEAVE movement, and is
somewhat more conservative than May.  I understand that whomever is chosen
will lead the party in a new election to be held in the not too distant
future.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 2:44 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:

> On 7/7/16, Stanley Halpin, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
> > would have been harboring a long term resentment about the abolition of
> >the British Pint of Ale in favor of some mandated nonsensical metric
> >abomination and I would probably have voted to Leave just because of
> >that one among many examples of bureaucratic overreach. I wish all of
> >you on both sides of the Channel the best of luck as you try to come to
> >a new working relationship.
>
> I'll drink (my still British pint) to that!
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Jaume Lahuerta]

- Mensaje original -
De: Steve Cottrell 


>I am a supporter of the EU, but I do not want my country to become a
state in the USE. I can't see how it would be possible. There are too
many diverse societies  with too many different backgrounds, cultures,
languages and ambitions to make it work. It would be doomed to failure
IMO. But a European Union as it stands at the moment is a working entity
that has good benefit for member countries.

>At the recent referendum I voted to remain in. If we do in fact Brexit,
and any future UK govt wanted to apply to rejoin, I think that if the
conditions were fully open borders and full financial union, then I
would vote to remain out.

>Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.

>I also love Europe and lots of countries within it - Spain and France to

name but two - and I don't want to see them watered down either.

Well, that is the never ending story with nationalism. One doesn't want his/her 
nation to be diluted in a bigger entity that does not respect their 
'peculiarities' and makes decisions against their interests.

The UK know this very well with Scotland, for instance, but somehow they 
managed to convince them that they are 'Better Together'.
But, funny enough, the bettertogethers now vote for Brexit and proclaime their 
'independence day' and the 'vote yes for independence's now say that they are 
'better together'...with the rest of the EU.

In Spain we have the same thing with Catalonia, that doesn't feel well 
respected in Spain but fully embraces the European project.


Maybe is that one hates its first line manager but no the second one...?


>Maybe I'm just getting a bit more cynical in my old age ;-)

>Peace, friends.


Sure !!
Actually, I think that this was all about. Too many countries, different 
backgrounds, too little space...lets build something in common so we don not 
keep fighting all the time.

The common project went too far for the British? well, too bad...but don't 
worry, like in the Prodigal Son Parable, we will sacrifice a fattened calf to 
celebrate your return...eventually.


It has been a pleasure, thanks for the conversation !

Jaume

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/7/16, Stanley Halpin, discombobulated, unleashed:

> would have been harboring a long term resentment about the abolition of
>the British Pint of Ale in favor of some mandated nonsensical metric
>abomination and I would probably have voted to Leave just because of
>that one among many examples of bureaucratic overreach. I wish all of
>you on both sides of the Channel the best of luck as you try to come to
>a new working relationship.

I'll drink (my still British pint) to that!

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[John]

On 7/7/2016 5:43 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 7/7/16, John, discombobulated, unleashed:


... keeping in mind that I'm not directly affected by the decision, so I
don't feel any need to tell them what to do.


But you will anyway ;-)



Of course, but it doesn't bother me that much that they're too dumb to
recognize that I have all the answers.

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Stanley Halpin]

My own impression is that status quo ante is not feasible, and that saddens me. 
I thought the EU was a good thing and without the British to keep it within 
reasonable bounds, it is likely to spiral out of control. On the other hand, if 
I were a British citizen, I would have been harboring a long term resentment 
about the abolition of the British Pint of Ale in favor of some mandated 
nonsensical metric abomination and I would probably have voted to Leave just 
because of that one among many examples of bureaucratic overreach. I wish all 
of you on both sides of the Channel the best of luck as you try to come to a 
new working relationship.

stan

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 5:43 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 7/7/16, John, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> ... keeping in mind that I'm not directly affected by the decision, so I
>> don't feel any need to tell them what to do.
> 
> But you will anyway ;-)
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 


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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/7/16, John, discombobulated, unleashed:

>... keeping in mind that I'm not directly affected by the decision, so I
>don't feel any need to tell them what to do.

But you will anyway ;-)

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[John]

On 7/6/2016 1:42 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 6/7/16, Jaume Lahuerta, discombobulated, unleashed:


How close do you want to get?



As closest as needed in order to be able to make decisions when there is
a problem knocking at the door: refugees, terrorism, wars in neighbor
countries, financial crisis...instead of the current: 'we have to meet
and decide', which normally means 'meet and postpone the decision'.

What about the U.S.E.?


I am a supporter of the EU, but I do not want my country to become a
state in the USE. I can't see how it would be possible. There are too
many diverse societies  with too many different backgrounds, cultures,
languages and ambitions to make it work. It would be doomed to failure
IMO. But a European Union as it stands at the moment is a working entity
that has good benefit for member countries.

At the recent referendum I voted to remain in. If we do in fact Brexit,
and any future UK govt wanted to apply to rejoin, I think that if the
conditions were fully open borders and full financial union, then I
would vote to remain out.

Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.

I also love Europe and lots of countries within it - Spain and France to
name but two - and I don't want to see them watered down either.

Maybe I'm just getting a bit more cynical in my old age ;-)

Peace, friends.



I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show on NPR this morning while running
errands.

She had Julian Fellowes (Downton Abbey creator) and asked him about
BREXIT. He had the first cogent argument I've heard for why BREXIT was a
good idea for the UK.

Don't know if I agreed with him, but at least I could understand his
reasoning.

... keeping in mind that I'm not directly affected by the decision, so I
don't feel any need to tell them what to do.


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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[David Mann]

On Jul 5, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:

> On 4/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> Is this right?  The PM resigned, and then the Brexit leaders in his party,
>> Johnson and Gove, said they are not interested in the job,
> 
> Not true. Michael Gove is standing for election as leader of the
> Conservative Party, which effectively means Prime Minister, given that
> they are in power at the moment. He stands a very slim chance.

A British friend of mine posted this on Facebook.  I can't vouch for its 
accuracy but it might be helpful if it's not out of date already.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe

I hope the list will forgive me for sending a Buzzfeed link but I did find it 
amusing.

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 6/7/16, Jaume Lahuerta, discombobulated, unleashed:

>>How close do you want to get?
>
>
>As closest as needed in order to be able to make decisions when there is
>a problem knocking at the door: refugees, terrorism, wars in neighbor
>countries, financial crisis...instead of the current: 'we have to meet
>and decide', which normally means 'meet and postpone the decision'.
>
>What about the U.S.E.?

I am a supporter of the EU, but I do not want my country to become a
state in the USE. I can't see how it would be possible. There are too
many diverse societies  with too many different backgrounds, cultures,
languages and ambitions to make it work. It would be doomed to failure
IMO. But a European Union as it stands at the moment is a working entity
that has good benefit for member countries.

At the recent referendum I voted to remain in. If we do in fact Brexit,
and any future UK govt wanted to apply to rejoin, I think that if the
conditions were fully open borders and full financial union, then I
would vote to remain out.

Like you, I love my country and I don't want to see it watered down by a
conglomerate entity composed of politicians from across the union, some
with their own agendas that bear no parallel with the UK's interests.

I also love Europe and lots of countries within it - Spain and France to
name but two - and I don't want to see them watered down either.

Maybe I'm just getting a bit more cynical in my old age ;-)

Peace, friends.




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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Jaume Lahuerta]

De: Steve Cottrell 


On 5/7/16, Jaume Lahuerta, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>Interesting conversation.
>>
>>As a citizen of 'the rest of Europe' my view of the UK as a member of
>>the EU is:
>
>>- They just want the good things of the Union (free trade) but not the
>>bad things (immigration,...). Brexit leaders promised to achieve this
>>perfect equation.

>Your assumption that immigration is a bad thing puzzles me. Why is it
bad? I actually think immigration is a good thing. That said, complete
freedom of movement, unrestricted, to a relatively small island with a
population already in excess of 65 million is untenable. We have an
overstretched national health service, housing shortages (pushing prices
up) amongst many other problems. Our government has already agreed to
immigration quotas that have been negotiated within the EU frame.

>Beyond this, one has to ask the question: why the UK ? Why do so many
people want to come here? Many people travel from the middle east, all
the way through Europe and strive to reach these shores. Why? This is
not the land of plenty that somehow has seemingly burned itself into the
immigrant consciousness.



Well, maybe I should have said 'but not the (apparently) bad things'. It is not 
me who says that is bad thing but the Brexit advocates who used it as one of 
the main reasons for it.

And it is not only the UK the destiny for immigrants and refugees. I remember 
hearing the Hungarian Prime Minister (I think it was him) saying that this was 
a 'only' German problem, because all refugees wanted to go to Germany and not 
stay on their country.

I live in Spain and we have also experience with people coming from Africa and 
dying in the Mediterranean trying to do so. And, from the 90's the situation 
has changed a lot and we have more and more immigrants in our cities. Even my 
hometown (14K people) is full of foreign people, specially during the summer, 
were there is demand for the fruit picking campaign.
And this is not always been well accepted by the locals, that forget too 
quickly that we were a country of emigrants in our civil post-war, not that far 
ago. And actually, we are having a comeback with the crisis, specially for the 
young people that is unable to find a decent job in Spain after having spend 
lots of yers in the University.


>>- They are (were) in, but with their own rules (currency, somehow
>>restricted borders,...)

>Believe it or not we are still 'in' and will likely be so until 2019. We
do have some opt-outs from the EU, currency being the main one. This was
negotiated and agreed upon by the EU. It is not a unilateral decision.
Your government, Juame, agreed to this opt-out along with all the other
EU governments. So how is this all our fault?


No, of course. But being part of a club, with specific rules for you and with 
the permanent menace of leaving out doesn't seem the best way to progress. They 
(the Governments that you mention) probably though that this was the lesser 
evil, but then the crisis came in and the 'special ones' decided to leave.

>The somehow restricted borders are also negotiated. Britain is not the
only EU member with restricted borders. Please see this wiki page on the
Schengen Area:




Well, in the map everybody seems to be in or planning to be in (even if not EU 
member) except for...the Islands (UK and Ireland) in green color.


>>- They always try to deactivate (from within) all the attempts for a
>>closer political union.

>I don't understand this statement at all. To my knowledge this is not true.

>Where's Bob Walkden when you need him ;-) (he's cycling in France!)

>My idea of 'a closer political union' probably mirrors most Brits' by
being part of a central union of countries standing together with trade
and social links. It does *not* include any notion that overall control
of our country will be decided by a European Parliament, a European
defence force (army). I am in two minds about a single currency, but
given the financial failings of some member states, at the moment, I
would prefer to keep the British Pound.


Regarding opinions about other's countries, sometimes we received a very biased 
point of view, that is true.


For instance, just after the Brexit referendum someone here said that he was 
fearing that the next one to leave was Spain.
This sounded very weird to me since nobody in Spain is saying that we should 
exit the EU, not to mention the referendum.
The most critical were the left-winded-populists Podemos (a sort of Siriza in 
Greece) specially about the EU economic measures. And, 3 days after the 
referendum, we had our general elections and this party was the clear loser (-1 
Million votes). Analyst say that the Brexit played a significant role in this 
fall.
So, no, there is no 'infection' in Spain, all the contrary...and maybe the UK 
citizens in general are not as eurosceptic as we think...but, hey, you make it 

Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[John]

On 7/5/2016 4:36 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:



On Jul 5, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:

On 5/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:


Is Britain still mired in the class struggle?


Always has and always will :-(


Frankly, the USA is not very different.



The class struggle in the USA is not quite so institutionalized.


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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Jul 5, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 5/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> Is Britain still mired in the class struggle?
> 
> Always has and always will :-(

Frankly, the USA is not very different. 

G

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 05.07.16 um 19:20 schrieb Steve Cottrell:


Does this also mean that the three other member states should not get
'special treatment' with their opt-outs also?




I'd have no problem with applying the same rules to everyone.

Ralf

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/7/16, Ralf R Radermacher, discombobulated, unleashed:

>only under the same conditions that apply to all 
>other member states. No more special treatment.

Does this also mean that the three other member states should not get
'special treatment' with their opt-outs also?



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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/7/16, Ralf R Radermacher, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I'd be sad to see them go and I'd be quite happy if they still changed 
>their minds but then only under the same conditions that apply to all 
>other member states. No more special treatment.

I just don't understand the special treatment bit. How is it special?

UK opt-outs were fully negotiated - some things the UK does not adhere
to and for this we pay a price. We benefit less than other member states.



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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Is Britain still mired in the class struggle?

Always has and always will :-(

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/7/16, Jaume Lahuerta, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Interesting conversation.
>
>As a citizen of 'the rest of Europe' my view of the UK as a member of
>the EU is:
>
>- They just want the good things of the Union (free trade) but not the
>bad things (immigration,...). Brexit leaders promised to achieve this
>perfect equation.

Your assumption that immigration is a bad thing puzzles me. Why is it
bad? I actually think immigration is a good thing. That said, complete
freedom of movement, unrestricted, to a relatively small island with a
population already in excess of 65 million is untenable. We have an
overstretched national health service, housing shortages (pushing prices
up) amongst many other problems. Our government has already agreed to
immigration quotas that have been negotiated within the EU frame.

Beyond this, one has to ask the question: why the UK ? Why do so many
people want to come here? Many people travel from the middle east, all
the way through Europe and strive to reach these shores. Why? This is
not the land of plenty that somehow has seemingly burned itself into the
immigrant consciousness.


>- They are (were) in, but with their own rules (currency, somehow
>restricted borders,...)

Believe it or not we are still 'in' and will likely be so until 2019. We
do have some opt-outs from the EU, currency being the main one. This was
negotiated and agreed upon by the EU. It is not a unilateral decision.
Your government, Juame, agreed to this opt-out along with all the other
EU governments. So how is this all our fault?

The somehow restricted borders are also negotiated. Britain is not the
only EU member with restricted borders. Please see this wiki page on the
Schengen Area:




>- They always try to deactivate (from within) all the attempts for a
>closer political union.

I don't understand this statement at all. To my knowledge this is not true.

Where's Bob Walkden when you need him ;-) (he's cycling in France!)

My idea of 'a closer political union' probably mirrors most Brits' by
being part of a central union of countries standing together with trade
and social links. It does *not* include any notion that overall control
of our country will be decided by a European Parliament, a European
defence force (army). I am in two minds about a single currency, but
given the financial failings of some member states, at the moment, I
would prefer to keep the British Pound.

>So, yes, probably the Brexit is a bad thing in the short term, but maybe
>is a good opportunity for both parties, specially for the Europeans that
>are willing to build a closer and more supportive Union.

How close do you want to get?

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 05.07.16 um 17:11 schrieb Jaume Lahuerta:


- They just want the good things of the Union (free trade) but not the bad 
things (immigration,...). Brexit leaders promised to achieve this perfect 
equation.

- They are (were) in, but with their own rules (currency, somehow restricted 
borders,...)
- They always try to deactivate (from within) all the attempts for a closer 
political union.


One more thing:

- They always were the USA's foot in the door of EU legislation.

I'd be sad to see them go and I'd be quite happy if they still changed 
their minds but then only under the same conditions that apply to all 
other member states. No more special treatment.


Ralf

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Interesting article.

"Brexit is about more than the EU: it’s about class, inequality, and voters
feeling excluded from politics."

Is Britain still mired in the class struggle?

Inequality, especially economic inequality, is a huge problem for all
economically developed democracies.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:

> On 5/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
> >Doesn't that make the referendum meaningless?
>
> Yes and no.
>
> We don't have proportional representation - we elect MPs to look after
> our interests in parliament. With the way our system works, I would have
> been in favour of our elected MPs (after due diligence in listening to
> their constituents) voting in parliament on our behalf.
>
> Sadly the PM promised a public referendum and the result is now a matter
> of fact.
>
> I say this because in my opinion a lot of people were not educated
> enough to understand what they were voting for/against. There appeared
> to be a public backlash based on misinformation and lack of ability to
> seemingly gather facts independently.
>
> This article might be of interest:
>
>  britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster>
>
> alternative link:
>
> 
>
>
> >Certainly some people might
> >vote for Labour on other grounds, even though they do not want to remain
> in
> >the EU.
>
> But surely a potential government promising a superseding of the
> referendum result would attract pro-EU voters and dissuade anti-EU
> voters. The opposition party (in power) have promised to uphold the
> referendum result and leave the EU, so in a general election that might
> be their promise, though I think they would lose.
>
> >The whole idea of a referendum is to isolate those other factors
> >and get a decision on the single issue:  leave or stay.
>
> I understand and agree - but in politics there are many ways to skin a
> cat (and a voter!).
>
> >The Leave issue is a complex one, based on emotion as well as on political
> >principles.  I think Britain's departure would be a great loss for the
> rest
> >of Europe, but the British people have to decide what is best for them. I
> >just hope it all get sorted out without too much additional turmoil and
> >economic harm to all concerned.
>
> Amen to that!
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Jaume Lahuerta]

Interesting conversation.

As a citizen of 'the rest of Europe' my view of the UK as a member of the EU is:

- They just want the good things of the Union (free trade) but not the bad 
things (immigration,...). Brexit leaders promised to achieve this perfect 
equation.

- They are (were) in, but with their own rules (currency, somehow restricted 
borders,...)
- They always try to deactivate (from within) all the attempts for a closer 
political union.


So, yes, probably the Brexit is a bad thing in the short term, but maybe is a 
good opportunity for both parties, specially for the Europeans that are willing 
to build a closer and more supportive Union.


Regards,
Jaume


De: Steve Cottrell <co...@seeingeye.tv>
Para: pentax list <PDML@pdml.net> 
Enviado: Martes 5 de julio de 2016 16:52
Asunto: Re: OT Brexit Aftermath


On 5/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Doesn't that make the referendum meaningless?

Yes and no.

We don't have proportional representation - we elect MPs to look after
our interests in parliament. With the way our system works, I would have
been in favour of our elected MPs (after due diligence in listening to
their constituents) voting in parliament on our behalf.

Sadly the PM promised a public referendum and the result is now a matter
of fact.

I say this because in my opinion a lot of people were not educated
enough to understand what they were voting for/against. There appeared
to be a public backlash based on misinformation and lack of ability to
seemingly gather facts independently.

This article might be of interest:

<http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-
britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster>

alternative link:

<http://tinyurl.com/hpv5j99>


>Certainly some people might
>vote for Labour on other grounds, even though they do not want to remain in
>the EU.

But surely a potential government promising a superseding of the
referendum result would attract pro-EU voters and dissuade anti-EU
voters. The opposition party (in power) have promised to uphold the
referendum result and leave the EU, so in a general election that might
be their promise, though I think they would lose.

>The whole idea of a referendum is to isolate those other factors
>and get a decision on the single issue:  leave or stay.

I understand and agree - but in politics there are many ways to skin a
cat (and a voter!). 

>The Leave issue is a complex one, based on emotion as well as on political
>principles.  I think Britain's departure would be a great loss for the rest
>of Europe, but the British people have to decide what is best for them. I
>just hope it all get sorted out without too much additional turmoil and
>economic harm to all concerned.

Amen to that!

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Doesn't that make the referendum meaningless?

Yes and no.

We don't have proportional representation - we elect MPs to look after
our interests in parliament. With the way our system works, I would have
been in favour of our elected MPs (after due diligence in listening to
their constituents) voting in parliament on our behalf.

Sadly the PM promised a public referendum and the result is now a matter
of fact.

I say this because in my opinion a lot of people were not educated
enough to understand what they were voting for/against. There appeared
to be a public backlash based on misinformation and lack of ability to
seemingly gather facts independently.

This article might be of interest:



alternative link:




>Certainly some people might
>vote for Labour on other grounds, even though they do not want to remain in
>the EU.

But surely a potential government promising a superseding of the
referendum result would attract pro-EU voters and dissuade anti-EU
voters. The opposition party (in power) have promised to uphold the
referendum result and leave the EU, so in a general election that might
be their promise, though I think they would lose.

>The whole idea of a referendum is to isolate those other factors
>and get a decision on the single issue:  leave or stay.

I understand and agree - but in politics there are many ways to skin a
cat (and a voter!). 

>The Leave issue is a complex one, based on emotion as well as on political
>principles.  I think Britain's departure would be a great loss for the rest
>of Europe, but the British people have to decide what is best for them. I
>just hope it all get sorted out without too much additional turmoil and
>economic harm to all concerned.

Amen to that!

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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:07 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:

> if a general election is called and (say) a new Labour Leader
> (who would be effectively campaigning to be PM) stood on a pro-EU ticket
> promising a turnaround stance on the EU - effectively saying if you vote
> us in, we cancel the referendum result - and that party won the
> election, then a clear (new) mandate will have been given and thus a new
> incoming government will have authority to cancel the U pullout (as long
> as that is done *before* Article 50 is started). This is entirely possible.
>

Doesn't that make the referendum meaningless?  Certainly some people might
vote for Labour on other grounds, even though they do not want to remain in
the EU.  The whole idea of a referendum is to isolate those other factors
and get a decision on the single issue:  leave or stay.

The Leave issue is a complex one, based on emotion as well as on political
principles.  I think Britain's departure would be a great loss for the rest
of Europe, but the British people have to decide what is best for them. I
just hope it all get sorted out without too much additional turmoil and
economic harm to all concerned.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Steve Cottrell]

On 4/7/16, Daniel J. Matyola, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Is this right?  The PM resigned, and then the Brexit leaders in his party,
>Johnson and Gove, said they are not interested in the job,

Not true. Michael Gove is standing for election as leader of the
Conservative Party, which effectively means Prime Minister, given that
they are in power at the moment. He stands a very slim chance.


>leaving the
>field open to a steon Remain Supporter.

The other contenders are a mixture of Remain and Leave supporters. The
favourite is Theresa May, Remain.

>Farange, who started it all, said
>"My work here is done," and resigned the leadershipof his party., but
>remains a member of the European Parliament.

This is true. He's been going a long time as UKIP leader and has
fulfilled one of his ambitions. He was never elected a UK Member of
Parliament, and there is only one serving UKIP MP.

>The Labour Leader won't quit,
>so everyone else in his party leadership quit instead.

Jeremy Corbyn is the Labour (and therefore opposition) leader. Many
Labour MPs feel he is unelectable (q.v.) and want a change of leader.
Corbyn has a vast support of the Labour Party membership, but alas no
the Parliamentary Labour Party (the Labour MPs) which is an untenable
situation. The honourable thing for him to do would be to step down but
he is having non of it. He will be ousted shortly - there is no way he
can continue without the support of the PLP.

> No one on either
>side of the referendum made any plans for what to do if Leave won, and the
>current PM refuses to do anything, leaving it up to his successor, who may
>be opposed to leaving.

David Cameron, the current Conservative PM has stated that he feels he
is unable to lead the UK out of the EU, and so is stepping down. His
total convictions were to remain in the EU. There is an argument that he
should have stayed on to fight for the best deal in withdrawing from the
EU, but he has served one previous term as PM, as well as the current
term and has previously publicly stated that he does not wish to seek a
third term of office. I think his actions are fully understandable in
the circumstances.

>Europe wants Britain to leave now, but Britain
>refuses to do anything.

This is simply not true and these are dangerous words. The above
statement is a non-sequitur.

The UK leaving the EU is a lengthy process, not previously attempted by
any country. The process starts by the UK PM going to the EU Parliament
and invoking 'Article 50' which is a trigger to begin a 2 year process,
at the end of which the UK is then no longer a member of the EU. During
this 2 years, negotiations would take place to secure terms of the
withdrawal. It simply cannot be done overnight. There is no time limit
on when the start of the process happens. The current PM has stated that
the next PM will have to do this. Realistically I think this will happen
some time in 2017.

> Even if they do, the Scots may have veto power
>over the UK's withdrawal, and everyone in Northern Ireland appears to be
>applying for Irish passports.

I have not heard of this.

There will be issues with Scotland and northern Ireland.

The whole thing could collapse though under certain conditions. For
instance, if a general election is called and (say) a new Labour Leader
(who would be effectively campaigning to be PM) stood on a pro-EU ticket
promising a turnaround stance on the EU - effectively saying if you vote
us in, we cancel the referendum result - and that party won the
election, then a clear (new) mandate will have been given and thus a new
incoming government will have authority to cancel the U pullout (as long
as that is done *before* Article 50 is started). This is entirely possible.

13 million people did not use the vote in the UK EU referendum. I
suspect most if those were Remain supporters who clearly thought they
wouldn't need to vote because it would be a walkover. Even if less than
half utilised their vote, the outcome would have been different. If they
then use that vote in a new pro-EU govt, then that's all it takes.

HTH.




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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[David Mann]

On Jul 5, 2016, at 9:47 AM, Brian Walters  wrote:

> Neither of the major parties has achieved an absolute majority in the
> lower house and  minority government is looking as the most likely
> result.

I wouldn't worry too much about nobody having a majority.  The last thing I'd 
want is a government that can do whatever it wants.

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Brian Walters]

Meanwhile downunder, we had a Federal election last weekend.

The current Prime Minister decided to call an early election for both
houses of Parliament  because he wanted a more friendly Senate that
would pass some Government legislation that was being held up by the
Opposition with the help of a rag tag bunch of minor parties.  The
Government even passed new Senate voting rules that would supposedly
make it easier to achieve the desired result.

The outcome?

We still don't have one.

Neither of the major parties has achieved an absolute majority in the
lower house and  minority government is looking as the most likely
result. We probably wont have a result for about a week as there are
still about 10 seats that are too close to call.

In the Senate, the electorate has thumbed their collective noses at both
partles and elected an even more diverse bunch of ratbags than existed
in the previous Senate. Getting legislation past this mob will involve a
level of negotiation skills that hasn't been demonstrated in the past.

Possibly tame by UK & US politics but at least we're doing our bit to
add to the current wave of political dick-headedness.



Cheers

Brian







On Tue, Jul 5, 2016, at 04:00 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
> Politics in the US is insane.  It appears almost rational, however,
> compared with what has been going on in England and Europe after the
> Brexit
> vote.
> 
> Is this right?  The PM resigned, and then the Brexit leaders in his
> party,
> Johnson and Gove, said they are not interested in the job, leaving the
> field open to a steon Remain Supporter.  Farange, who started it all,
> said
> "My work here is done," and resigned the leadershipof his party., but
> remains a member of the European Parliament.  The Labour Leader won't
> quit,
> so everyone else in his party leadership quit instead.  No one on either
> side of the referendum made any plans for what to do if Leave won, and
> the
> current PM refuses to do anything, leaving it up to his successor, who
> may
> be opposed to leaving.  Europe wants Britain to leave now, but Britain
> refuses to do anything.  Even if they do, the Scots may have veto power
> over the UK's withdrawal, and everyone in Northern Ireland appears to be
> applying for Irish passports.
> 
> This is a rude analysis of the situation:
> https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe?utm_term=.tjWBLd0vL_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=News%20-%200704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzFeed%20Newsletters#.fervzm5qz
> 
> And Down Under, things have taken a pretty strange turn as well:
> https://www.buzzfeed.com/robstott/oh-god-oh-god-oh-god?utm_term=.ek5BnVRXn_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=News%20-%200704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzFeed%20Newsletters#.ivggOx4XO
> 
> It appears to me that the only person who can look at this without
> screaming out loudnis Putin, the Mad Russian.
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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Re: OT Brexit Aftermath

[Jostein Øksne]

Welcome to Europe. 
Jostein 

Den 4. juli 2016 20.00.14 CEST, skrev "Daniel J. Matyola" 
:
>Politics in the US is insane.  It appears almost rational, however,
>compared with what has been going on in England and Europe after the
>Brexit
>vote.
>
>Is this right?  The PM resigned, and then the Brexit leaders in his
>party,
>Johnson and Gove, said they are not interested in the job, leaving the
>field open to a steon Remain Supporter.  Farange, who started it all,
>said
>"My work here is done," and resigned the leadershipof his party., but
>remains a member of the European Parliament.  The Labour Leader won't
>quit,
>so everyone else in his party leadership quit instead.  No one on
>either
>side of the referendum made any plans for what to do if Leave won, and
>the
>current PM refuses to do anything, leaving it up to his successor, who
>may
>be opposed to leaving.  Europe wants Britain to leave now, but Britain
>refuses to do anything.  Even if they do, the Scots may have veto power
>over the UK's withdrawal, and everyone in Northern Ireland appears to
>be
>applying for Irish passports.
>
>This is a rude analysis of the situation:
>https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe?utm_term=.tjWBLd0vL_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=News%20-%200704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzFeed%20Newsletters#.fervzm5qz
>
>And Down Under, things have taken a pretty strange turn as well:
>https://www.buzzfeed.com/robstott/oh-god-oh-god-oh-god?utm_term=.ek5BnVRXn_medium=email_campaign=News%20-%200704%20Monday_content=News%20-%200704%20Monday+CID_6bc9f3d10b2c8409d3d9c5498cef83b1_source=BuzzFeed%20Newsletters#.ivggOx4XO
>
>It appears to me that the only person who can look at this without
>screaming out loudnis Putin, the Mad Russian.
>
>Dan Matyola
>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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