Re: Talk about crap

[DagT]

I know now, I must have been tired last night...

DagT

Den 29. jul. 2006 kl. 04.04 skrev graywolf:

> But you never heard of Albert Einstein, correct?
>
> --  
> graywolf
> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
> ---
>
>
> DagT wrote:
>> Not really, I should know. I am a patent attorney and former patent
>> examiner/clerk in Norway, and a partner here: http://
>> www.protector.biz/uk/ You´ll find my face somewhere on that cite.
>>
>> ...and just to say somethng about the US patent attorneys:  They have
>> law degrees as well, making them very good at handling conflicts.
>>
>> DagT
>>
>> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 22.15 skrev Bob W:
>>
>>> Really? You amaze me.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>  Bob
>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>> Behalf Of DagT
>>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 20:51
>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>
>>>> Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or
>>>> rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while in  
>>>> the US
>>>> they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...  .-)
>>>>
>>>> DagT
>>>>
>>>> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on
>>> them
>>>>> when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes. Applying
>>>>> brakes invalidates warranty".
>>>>>
>>>>> That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are
>>>> probably not very
>>>>> good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>  Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of graywolf
>>>>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
>>>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
>>>>>> machines are
>>>>>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
>>>>>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented
>>>>> that
>>>>>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
>>>>> case,
>>>>>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>> DagT
>> http://dag.foto.no
>>
>> Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
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> PDML@pdml.net
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DagT
http://dag.foto.no

Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.




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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

But you never heard of Albert Einstein, correct?

-- 
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


DagT wrote:
> Not really, I should know. I am a patent attorney and former patent  
> examiner/clerk in Norway, and a partner here: http:// 
> www.protector.biz/uk/ You´ll find my face somewhere on that cite.
> 
> ...and just to say somethng about the US patent attorneys:  They have  
> law degrees as well, making them very good at handling conflicts.
> 
> DagT
> 
> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 22.15 skrev Bob W:
> 
>> Really? You amaze me.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>  Bob
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of DagT
>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 20:51
>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>
>>> Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or
>>> rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while in the US
>>> they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...  .-)
>>>
>>> DagT
>>>
>>> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on
>> them
>>>> when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes. Applying
>>>> brakes invalidates warranty".
>>>>
>>>> That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are
>>> probably not very
>>>> good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>  Bob
>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>>> Behalf Of graywolf
>>>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
>>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
>>>>> machines are
>>>>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
>>>>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented
>>>> that
>>>>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
>>>> case,
>>>>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> DagT
> http://dag.foto.no
> 
> Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

HAR! back at you .

-- 
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


Bob W wrote:
>> So it seems that your arguments are, to quote someone or 
>> another, "Much 
>> Ado About Nothing".
>>
> 
> Probably Mark Twain...
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Talk about crap

[Bob Sullivan]

No joke, His Noodlelyness has come to me in my dreams.
He awakened my dormant pirate spirit and urged me to take action on
global warming.  I am building a ship to sail down river from Chicago
to New Orleans and the Gulf of Mexico where I can become a Pirate of
the Caribbean.
Please pass the pasta,  Bob S.

On 7/28/06, Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> mike wilson wrote:
> > Mine was less elaborate.  No footnotes.  I wouldn't offend people who live 
> > that far North.  Not me.  No, sir.  8-)
>
> Speaking of elaborate, jokes, and crap, here's one of my favorites:
>
> The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
> http://www.venganza.org/
>
> --
> Thanks,
> DougF (KG4LMZ)
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[frank theriault]

On 7/28/06, Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As a matter of fact I believe I'm related to both of you. :-)

Wow, your answer to my post was, like, at the speed of light!!

cheers,
frank
-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: Talk about crap

[Doug Franklin]

DagT wrote:

> ...and just to say somethng about the US patent attorneys:  They have  
> law degrees as well, making them very good at handling conflicts.

"handling" or "instigating"? :-)

-- 
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DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Talk about crap

[Tom C]

>On 7/28/06, Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It's all relative you know.
>
>You're related to DagT?
>
>cheers,
>frank
>

As a matter of fact I believe I'm related to both of you. :-)

Tom C.



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Re: Talk about crap

[frank theriault]

On 7/28/06, Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's all relative you know.

You're related to DagT?

cheers,
frank

-- 
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RE: Talk about crap

[Tom C]

It's all relative you know.

Tom C.





From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" 
Subject: RE: Talk about crap
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:19:38 +0100

Amazing. I'm astounded that any Swiss patent clerk could possibly be
good at physics. Who'd have thought such a thing was possible? They'll
have their faces on t-shirts next, I'll bet.

--
Cheers,
 Bob

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of DagT
> Sent: 28 July 2006 21:34
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>
> Not really, I should know. I am a patent attorney and former patent

> examiner/clerk in Norway, and a partner here: http://
> www.protector.biz/uk/ You´ll find my face somewhere on that cite.
>
> ...and just to say somethng about the US patent attorneys:
> They have
> law degrees as well, making them very good at handling conflicts.
>
> DagT
>
> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 22.15 skrev Bob W:
>
> > Really? You amaze me.
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >  Bob
> >
> >> -Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >> Behalf Of DagT
> >> Sent: 28 July 2006 20:51
> >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>
> >> Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or
> >> rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while
> in the US
> >
> >> they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...
.-)
> >>
> >> DagT
> >>
> >> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:
> >>
> >>> Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on
> > them
> >>> when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes.
Applying
> >>> brakes invalidates warranty".
> >>>
> >>> That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are
> >> probably not very
> >>> good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>  Bob
> >>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>>> Behalf Of graywolf
> >>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
> >>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
> >>>> machines are
> >>>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
> >>>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been
patented
> >>> that
> >>>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
> >>> case,
> >>>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
> DagT
> http://dag.foto.no
>
> Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
>



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Re: Talk about crap

[DagT]

sh... I didn´t see that one .-)

Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 23.19 skrev Bob W:

> Amazing. I'm astounded that any Swiss patent clerk could possibly be
> good at physics. Who'd have thought such a thing was possible? They'll
> have their faces on t-shirts next, I'll bet.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of DagT
>> Sent: 28 July 2006 21:34
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>
>> Not really, I should know. I am a patent attorney and former patent
>
>> examiner/clerk in Norway, and a partner here: http://
>> www.protector.biz/uk/ You´ll find my face somewhere on that cite.
>>
>> ...and just to say somethng about the US patent attorneys:
>> They have
>> law degrees as well, making them very good at handling conflicts.
>>
>> DagT
>>
>> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 22.15 skrev Bob W:
>>
>>> Really? You amaze me.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>  Bob
>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>> Behalf Of DagT
>>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 20:51
>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>
>>>> Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or
>>>> rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while
>> in the US
>>>
>>>> they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...
> .-)
>>>>
>>>> DagT
>>>>
>>>> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on
>>> them
>>>>> when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes.
> Applying
>>>>> brakes invalidates warranty".
>>>>>
>>>>> That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are
>>>> probably not very
>>>>> good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>  Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of graywolf
>>>>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
>>>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
>>>>>> machines are
>>>>>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
>>>>>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been
> patented
>>>>> that
>>>>>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
>>>>> case,
>>>>>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>> DagT
>> http://dag.foto.no
>>
>> Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
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DagT
http://dag.foto.no

Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.




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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

Amazing. I'm astounded that any Swiss patent clerk could possibly be
good at physics. Who'd have thought such a thing was possible? They'll
have their faces on t-shirts next, I'll bet.

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of DagT
> Sent: 28 July 2006 21:34
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> Not really, I should know. I am a patent attorney and former patent

> examiner/clerk in Norway, and a partner here: http:// 
> www.protector.biz/uk/ You´ll find my face somewhere on that cite.
> 
> ...and just to say somethng about the US patent attorneys:  
> They have  
> law degrees as well, making them very good at handling conflicts.
> 
> DagT
> 
> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 22.15 skrev Bob W:
> 
> > Really? You amaze me.
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >  Bob
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >> Behalf Of DagT
> >> Sent: 28 July 2006 20:51
> >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>
> >> Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or
> >> rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while 
> in the US
> >
> >> they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...
.-)
> >>
> >> DagT
> >>
> >> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:
> >>
> >>> Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on
> > them
> >>> when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes.
Applying
> >>> brakes invalidates warranty".
> >>>
> >>> That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are
> >> probably not very
> >>> good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>  Bob
> >>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>>> Behalf Of graywolf
> >>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
> >>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
> >>>> machines are
> >>>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
> >>>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been
patented
> >>> that
> >>>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
> >>> case,
> >>>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> DagT
> http://dag.foto.no
> 
> Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> 
> 



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Re: Talk about crap

[DagT]

Not really, I should know. I am a patent attorney and former patent  
examiner/clerk in Norway, and a partner here: http:// 
www.protector.biz/uk/ You´ll find my face somewhere on that cite.

...and just to say somethng about the US patent attorneys:  They have  
law degrees as well, making them very good at handling conflicts.

DagT

Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 22.15 skrev Bob W:

> Really? You amaze me.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of DagT
>> Sent: 28 July 2006 20:51
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>
>> Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or
>> rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while in the US
>
>> they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...  .-)
>>
>> DagT
>>
>> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:
>>
>>> Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on
> them
>>> when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes. Applying
>>> brakes invalidates warranty".
>>>
>>> That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are
>> probably not very
>>> good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>  Bob
>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>> Behalf Of graywolf
>>>> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>
>>>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
>>>> machines are
>>>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
>>>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented
>>> that
>>>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
>>> case,
>>>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

DagT
http://dag.foto.no

Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.




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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

Really? You amaze me.

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of DagT
> Sent: 28 July 2006 20:51
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or  
> rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while in the US

> they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...  .-)
> 
> DagT
> 
> Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:
> 
> > Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on
them
> > when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes. Applying
> > brakes invalidates warranty".
> >
> > That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are 
> probably not very
> > good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >  Bob
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >> Behalf Of graywolf
> >> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
> >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>
> >> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
> >> machines are
> >> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
> >> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented
> > that
> >> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
> > case,
> >> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> 
> 



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Re: Talk about crap

[DagT]

Well, actually the Swiss, and the German, are quite good. Fond or  
rules and order.  In Germany they often have Ph. D´s while in the US  
they often have bachelors degrees in their technical field...  .-)

DagT

Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 21.29 skrev Bob W:

> Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on them
> when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes. Applying
> brakes invalidates warranty".
>
> That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are probably not very
> good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of graywolf
>> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>
>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM
>> machines are
>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented
> that
>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
> case,
>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[frank theriault]

On 7/28/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frank:
>
> 
>

H...

A surprisingly accurate likeness...



cheers,
frank


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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

That guy gets some totally ace emails:
http://www.venganza.org/email_neg.htm

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Doug Franklin
> Sent: 28 July 2006 13:31
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> mike wilson wrote:
> > Mine was less elaborate.  No footnotes.  I wouldn't offend 
> people who live that far North.  Not me.  No, sir.  8-)
> 
> Speaking of elaborate, jokes, and crap, here's one of my favorites:
> 
> The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
> http://www.venganza.org/
> 
> -- 
> Thanks,
> DougF (KG4LMZ)
> 
> -- 
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> 
> 



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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

Perhaps he drew it with brakes and intends to put a big sign on them
when he's built it saying "Warning - do not apply brakes. Applying
brakes invalidates warranty".

That would easily get by the patent clerks, who are probably not very
good at physics anyway. Especially the Swiss.

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of graywolf
> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:24
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM 
> machines are 
> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without 
> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented
that 
> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that
case, 
> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.



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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

On Jul 28, 2006, at 3:05 PM, frank theriault wrote:

> If someone was going to build a robot, doncha think they'd have built
> it better looking and smarter than me?

With a good amount of Photoshop, Frank can look passably intelligent.

However, Dave Chang-Sang will always be too bald.

-Aaron

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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

> 
> So it seems that your arguments are, to quote someone or 
> another, "Much 
> Ado About Nothing".
> 

Probably Mark Twain...



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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

Probably because Alaska's closer to Jerusalem on a flat earth.

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of P. J. Alling
> Sent: 28 July 2006 16:31
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> Actually the real ones are headquartered in London, IIRC.  
> However the 
> Alaskans show up first in Google, shows you what that's worth.
> 
> Don Williams wrote:
> 
> >Its an elaborate joke. Read the footnote on the main page.
> >
> >Don
> >
> >mike wilson wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>>From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>Date: 2006/07/28 Fri AM 03:34:01 GMT
> >>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >>>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>>
> >>>If Moon landing deniers are today's flat earth people, 
> what the heck are 
> >>>these wackos?
> >>>
> >>>http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>They are Alaskans.  Over six months of the year wondering 
> what to do..
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >>>Jack Davis wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>>Tom,
> >>>>These folks are today's "flat earth" people. They are incapable
of
> >>>>accepting logic and, in fact, covet the desperate claims of the
> >>>>rational as validation and a measure of their impact.
> >>>>I wouldn't expend further energy honoring their spewings with a
> >>>>response.
> >>>>
> >>>>Jack
> >>>>--- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The thing is the moon landing fraud claims are so 
> ludicrous as to be 
> >>>>>laughable.  No need to debunk each claim one by one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The entire Apollo project was so demonstrably big, over 
> a number of
> >>>>>years, 
> >>>>>employing 1000's, if not tens of 1000's of people, not to
mention
> >>>>>those 
> >>>>>overseas connected with the project and the landings 
> themselves that
> >>>>>were 
> >>>>>not part of NASA or the US government.  How would it be 
> possible to
> >>>>>maintain 
> >>>>>a conspiracy that large?  The consciences of hundreds of
> >>>>>whistleblowers 
> >>>>>would have prompted them to scream and shout.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>If the moon landig was myth, then what about the prior 
> and subsequent
> >>>>>space 
> >>>>>programs including the shuttle, mars, voyager, etc.?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The fact that the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment 
> equipment set up on
> >>>>>the 
> >>>>>moon by Apollo 11 astronauts is still being used today 
> by independent
> >>>>>
> >>>>>universities, provides ample proof.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Tom C.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>>>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >>>>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>>>>>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:06 -0400
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I've read some interesting and compelling arguments for the
> >>>>>>>   
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  
&

RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

Har!

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of graywolf
> Sent: 28 July 2006 15:55
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> I kind of think I have just been insulted by an expert.
> 
> -- 
> graywolf
> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
> ---
> 
> 
> Bob W wrote:
> > I've never done this before, so if I get it wrong, please excuse
me.
> > 
> >> If you are going to be taught 
> >> nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.
> >>
> > 
> > Mark!
> > 
> > I think Graywolf is the greatest philosopher in the entire pdml!
> > 
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >  Bob 



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Re: Talk about crap

[frank theriault]

On 7/28/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But some of us have actually met him, and can testify that he is a robot
> fueled by beer.

C'mon Tom,

If someone was going to build a robot, doncha think they'd have built
it better looking and smarter than me?



cheers,
frank

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Re: Talk about crap

[David Savage]

Frank:



Dave :-)

On 7/28/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But some of us have actually met him, and can testify that he is a robot
> fueled by beer.

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Re: Talk about crap

[DagT]

Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 17.43 skrev keith_w:

> graywolf wrote:
>> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM  
>> machines are
>> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
>> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented that
>> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that case,
>> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
>
> Seriously, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of obtaining the patent?
>
> If motion without decay from the world around it (entropy, I guess)  
> is not one
> of the claims, the applicant/patent holder has no claim or recourse  
> against
> those who wold steal the essence of the idea.
>
> Just thinking about it...


A good thought, but some of these inventors are so certain that they  
have invented a PM that they try to fool the patent office into  
giving them the patent. The claims may be unclear (and difficult to  
attack or defend) but they still cover the PM.

DagT

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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

But some of us have actually met him, and can testify that he is a robot 
fueled by beer.

-- 
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http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


P. J. Alling wrote:
> Hey, what about my Theory that knarf is an auto reply "Eliza" program?
> 
> Mark Roberts wrote:
> 
>> Norman Baugher wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> From: "Tom C" 
>>>
>>>
 Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
  

>>> Just as I thought!! The USSR was in on the conspiracy...
>>> Norm
>>>
>>>
>> "Norm". Yeah, right.
>> Everyone knows "Norm" is just a figment of Frank Theriault's
>> imagination.
>>
>>  
>>
> 
> 

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Re: Talk about crap

[DagT]

That is probably true.  Another thing is that some patent attorneys  
are so good at camouflaging real inventive that they end of with a  
PM .-)

DagT

Den 28. jul. 2006 kl. 17.24 skrev graywolf:

> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM machines  
> are
> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without
> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented that
> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that case,
> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.
>
>
> -- 
> graywolf
> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
> ---
>
>
> DagT wrote:
>   but in the US they do in fact have some granted
>> patents on inventions being classified as perpetual motion  
>> machines...
>
> -- 
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

DagT
http://dag.foto.no

Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.




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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

graywolf wrote:
> Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM machines are 
> not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without 
> consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented that 
> fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that case, 
> been cleverly concealed by the applicant.

Seriously, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of obtaining the patent?

If motion without decay from the world around it (entropy, I guess) is not one 
of the claims, the applicant/patent holder has no claim or recourse against 
those who wold steal the essence of the idea.

Just thinking about it...

keith

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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

Hum...? Say, Bill, I will be up there it just a couple of day to start 
working for you. $70 an hour will be fine, especially since I was only 
making 1/3 of that when I was working as a JIW out of Local 252.

However, if you mean you are paying Electrical Contractors $70/hr, I 
will save the gas and stay here reading the PDML.

-- 
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http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


William Robb wrote:
> - Original Message - 
> From: "David Savage"
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> 
>> At 07:35 AM 27/07/2006, William Robb wrote:
> 
>> At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter &
>> turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food 
>> technician.
>>
>> ;-)
> 
> I'm paying journeyman electricians upwards of $70.00 an hour at the moment. 
> I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that plumbers in England can 
> pretty much charge whatever they want, some making 1/4 million pounds a 
> year.
> The tradesmen don't seem to have a lot of stress in their lives either, 
> which is more than I can say for the desk jockeys that I know.
> They are also in better physical condition, and don't have to buy 
> memberships at the gym to stay in shape.
> 
> William Robb 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

Yeh, around here they get $10/hr while those PHD's working at BK make 
only $8. But then, this is a Liberal Arts University town, so there is a 
glut of PHD's.

-- 
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http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


David Savage wrote:

> 
> At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter & 
> turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food technician.

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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

Actually the real ones are headquartered in London, IIRC.  However the 
Alaskans show up first in Google, shows you what that's worth.

Don Williams wrote:

>Its an elaborate joke. Read the footnote on the main page.
>
>Don
>
>mike wilson wrote:
>  
>
>>>From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Date: 2006/07/28 Fri AM 03:34:01 GMT
>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>
>>>If Moon landing deniers are today's flat earth people, what the heck are 
>>>these wackos?
>>>
>>>http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>They are Alaskans.  Over six months of the year wondering what to do..
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>>Jack Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>Tom,
>>>>These folks are today's "flat earth" people. They are incapable of
>>>>accepting logic and, in fact, covet the desperate claims of the
>>>>rational as validation and a measure of their impact.
>>>>I wouldn't expend further energy honoring their spewings with a
>>>>response.
>>>>
>>>>Jack
>>>>--- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The thing is the moon landing fraud claims are so ludicrous as to be 
>>>>>laughable.  No need to debunk each claim one by one.
>>>>>
>>>>>The entire Apollo project was so demonstrably big, over a number of
>>>>>years, 
>>>>>employing 1000's, if not tens of 1000's of people, not to mention
>>>>>those 
>>>>>overseas connected with the project and the landings themselves that
>>>>>were 
>>>>>not part of NASA or the US government.  How would it be possible to
>>>>>maintain 
>>>>>a conspiracy that large?  The consciences of hundreds of
>>>>>whistleblowers 
>>>>>would have prompted them to scream and shout.
>>>>>
>>>>>If the moon landig was myth, then what about the prior and subsequent
>>>>>space 
>>>>>programs including the shuttle, mars, voyager, etc.?
>>>>>
>>>>>The fact that the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment equipment set up on
>>>>>the 
>>>>>moon by Apollo 11 astronauts is still being used today by independent
>>>>>
>>>>>universities, provides ample proof.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom C.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>>>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>>>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:06 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've read some interesting and compelling arguments for the
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>fakery of
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>>>the moon photographs, but I've read even more interesting and
>>>>>>>compelling debunkings of those arguments.
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Same here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's part of why it's so important to let people talk about
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>this
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>>>stuff -- you get specifics that you can examine and attempt to
>>>>>>>counter.
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Right.  Let the nuts speak.  Otherwise you may never know what they
>>>>>>might say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>>>>PDML@pdml.net
>>>>>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>-- 
>>>>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>>>PDML@pdml.net
>>>>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>__
>>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>>>>http://mail.yahoo.com 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>-- 
>>>When you're worried or in doubt, 
>>> Run in circles, (scream and shout).
>>>
>>>
>>>-- 
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>>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>-
>>Email sent from www.ntlworld.com
>>Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software 
>>Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>


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Run in circles, (scream and shout).


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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

Interesting, since the US patent laws specifically says PM machines are 
not patentable, and any such are automatically rejected without 
consideration. Now it is possible some things have been patented that 
fall into that category, but the fact that they do has, in that case, 
been cleverly concealed by the applicant.


-- 
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http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


DagT wrote:
  but in the US they do in fact have some granted
> patents on inventions being classified as perpetual motion machines...

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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

I think that most of our comments, have the unstated but presumed to be 
understood proviso "If the article is correct". Most of us are talking 
generalities and think that if someone is using their teaching position 
proselytize their own agenda they should not be supported by the taxpayers.

One would hope that such an issue would be investigated thoroughly 
before any action was taken. Very few of us on the list think that the 
news media is without their own agenda.

So it seems that your arguments are, to quote someone or another, "Much 
Ado About Nothing".

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"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


Aaron Reynolds wrote:
> On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:
> 
>> I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the
>> least if he got the boot.
> 
> Keith, you wouldn't feel that your academic freedom would be infringed 
> if a professor were booted without an examination of the material or 
> even a single person knowing what his claims actually are?  Just based 
> on a single line in a newspaper article describing what we can only 
> assume is the most sensational part of his intended lecture, and 
> without context?
> 
> What if he's presenting it to be debunked by the class as an exercise 
> but loses his job on the strength of this newspaper article -- would 
> you still feel that your academic freedom had not been infringed then?
> 
> What I've been trying to say (and for some reason this got me labeled 
> as a 9/11 Denier) is that someone should, you know, find out what he's 
> actually saying before the man is condemned for saying it.
> 
> -Aaron
> 

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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

I kind of think I have just been insulted by an expert.

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"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


Bob W wrote:
> I've never done this before, so if I get it wrong, please excuse me.
> 
>> If you are going to be taught 
>> nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.
>>
> 
> Mark!
> 
> I think Graywolf is the greatest philosopher in the entire pdml!
> 
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>> Behalf Of graywolf
>> Sent: 26 July 2006 21:18
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>
>> But he was correct. All you need is all the facts and a 
>> powerful enough 
>> computer. Boulders are not capable of self-determination and 
>> follow pure 
>> physical rules. However, if he was applying that to 
>> psychology he was an 
>> ass, and you did the correct thing. If you are going to be taught 
>> nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.
>>
>> -- 
>> graywolf
>> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
>> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
>> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
>> ---
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Talk about crap

[Doug Franklin]

mike wilson wrote:
> Mine was less elaborate.  No footnotes.  I wouldn't offend people who live 
> that far North.  Not me.  No, sir.  8-)

Speaking of elaborate, jokes, and crap, here's one of my favorites:

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
http://www.venganza.org/

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Re: Talk about crap

[mike wilson]

Mine was less elaborate.  No footnotes.  I wouldn't offend people who live that 
far North.  Not me.  No, sir.  8-)
> 
> From: Don Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/07/28 Fri AM 09:10:14 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> Its an elaborate joke. Read the footnote on the main page.
> 
> Don
> 
> mike wilson wrote:
> >> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Date: 2006/07/28 Fri AM 03:34:01 GMT
> >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>
> >> If Moon landing deniers are today's flat earth people, what the heck are 
> >> these wackos?
> >>
> >> http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
> >> 
> >
> > They are Alaskans.  Over six months of the year wondering what to do..
> >
> >   
> >> Jack Davis wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >>> Tom,
> >>> These folks are today's "flat earth" people. They are incapable of
> >>> accepting logic and, in fact, covet the desperate claims of the
> >>> rational as validation and a measure of their impact.
> >>> I wouldn't expend further energy honoring their spewings with a
> >>> response.
> >>>
> >>> Jack
> >>> --- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>   
> >>>> The thing is the moon landing fraud claims are so ludicrous as to be 
> >>>> laughable.  No need to debunk each claim one by one.
> >>>>
> >>>> The entire Apollo project was so demonstrably big, over a number of
> >>>> years, 
> >>>> employing 1000's, if not tens of 1000's of people, not to mention
> >>>> those 
> >>>> overseas connected with the project and the landings themselves that
> >>>> were 
> >>>> not part of NASA or the US government.  How would it be possible to
> >>>> maintain 
> >>>> a conspiracy that large?  The consciences of hundreds of
> >>>> whistleblowers 
> >>>> would have prompted them to scream and shout.
> >>>>
> >>>> If the moon landig was myth, then what about the prior and subsequent
> >>>> space 
> >>>> programs including the shuttle, mars, voyager, etc.?
> >>>>
> >>>> The fact that the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment equipment set up on
> >>>> the 
> >>>> moon by Apollo 11 astronauts is still being used today by independent
> >>>>
> >>>> universities, provides ample proof.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom C.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>>> From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:06 -0400
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   
> >>>>>> I've read some interesting and compelling arguments for the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>> fakery of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>>>> the moon photographs, but I've read even more interesting and
> >>>>>> compelling debunkings of those arguments.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>> Same here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   
> >>>>>> That's part of why it's so important to let people talk about
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>> this
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>>>> stuff -- 

Re: Talk about crap

[Don Williams]

Its an elaborate joke. Read the footnote on the main page.

Don

mike wilson wrote:
>> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: 2006/07/28 Fri AM 03:34:01 GMT
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>
>> If Moon landing deniers are today's flat earth people, what the heck are 
>> these wackos?
>>
>> http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
>> 
>
> They are Alaskans.  Over six months of the year wondering what to do..
>
>   
>> Jack Davis wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Tom,
>>> These folks are today's "flat earth" people. They are incapable of
>>> accepting logic and, in fact, covet the desperate claims of the
>>> rational as validation and a measure of their impact.
>>> I wouldn't expend further energy honoring their spewings with a
>>> response.
>>>
>>> Jack
>>> --- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>   
>>>> The thing is the moon landing fraud claims are so ludicrous as to be 
>>>> laughable.  No need to debunk each claim one by one.
>>>>
>>>> The entire Apollo project was so demonstrably big, over a number of
>>>> years, 
>>>> employing 1000's, if not tens of 1000's of people, not to mention
>>>> those 
>>>> overseas connected with the project and the landings themselves that
>>>> were 
>>>> not part of NASA or the US government.  How would it be possible to
>>>> maintain 
>>>> a conspiracy that large?  The consciences of hundreds of
>>>> whistleblowers 
>>>> would have prompted them to scream and shout.
>>>>
>>>> If the moon landig was myth, then what about the prior and subsequent
>>>> space 
>>>> programs including the shuttle, mars, voyager, etc.?
>>>>
>>>> The fact that the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment equipment set up on
>>>> the 
>>>> moon by Apollo 11 astronauts is still being used today by independent
>>>>
>>>> universities, provides ample proof.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
>>>>
>>>> Tom C.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>>>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:06 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>> I've read some interesting and compelling arguments for the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> fakery of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>> the moon photographs, but I've read even more interesting and
>>>>>> compelling debunkings of those arguments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Same here.
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>> That's part of why it's so important to let people talk about
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> this
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>> stuff -- you get specifics that you can examine and attempt to
>>>>>> counter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Right.  Let the nuts speak.  Otherwise you may never know what they
>>>>> might say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>> -- 
>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> __
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>>> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>   
>> -- 
>> When you're worried or in doubt, 
>>  Run in circles, (scream and shout).
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>> 
>
>
> -
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Re: Talk about crap

[Keith McGuinness]

Aaron Reynolds wrote:
> On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:
> 
>> I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the
>> least if he got the boot.
> 
> Keith, you wouldn't feel that your academic freedom would be infringed 
> if a professor were booted without an examination of the material or 
> even a single person knowing what his claims actually are?  Just based 
> on a single line in a newspaper article describing what we can only 
> assume is the most sensational part of his intended lecture, and 
> without context?
> 
> What if he's presenting it to be debunked by the class as an exercise 
> but loses his job on the strength of this newspaper article -- would 
> you still feel that your academic freedom had not been infringed then?

My remarks were in the context of whether or not academic freedom
gives us the right to present anything we want, in any way we
want. (Some seem to think it does.)

I am/was assuming -- probably foolishly! -- that "due process"
was/would be followed. I realise that, regrettably, "trial by
media" is all too common, these days.

> What I've been trying to say (and for some reason this got me labeled 
> as a 9/11 Denier) is that someone should, you know, find out what he's 
> actually saying before the man is condemned for saying it.

Where's the fun in that?

Actually, I think that it is reasonably likely that he is doing
what people are accusing him of.

Keith McG


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Re: Talk about crap

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/07/28 Fri AM 03:34:01 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> If Moon landing deniers are today's flat earth people, what the heck are 
> these wackos?
> 
> http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

They are Alaskans.  Over six months of the year wondering what to do..

> 
> Jack Davis wrote:
> 
> >Tom,
> >These folks are today's "flat earth" people. They are incapable of
> >accepting logic and, in fact, covet the desperate claims of the
> >rational as validation and a measure of their impact.
> >I wouldn't expend further energy honoring their spewings with a
> >response.
> >
> >Jack
> >--- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>The thing is the moon landing fraud claims are so ludicrous as to be 
> >>laughable.  No need to debunk each claim one by one.
> >>
> >>The entire Apollo project was so demonstrably big, over a number of
> >>years, 
> >>employing 1000's, if not tens of 1000's of people, not to mention
> >>those 
> >>overseas connected with the project and the landings themselves that
> >>were 
> >>not part of NASA or the US government.  How would it be possible to
> >>maintain 
> >>a conspiracy that large?  The consciences of hundreds of
> >>whistleblowers 
> >>would have prompted them to scream and shout.
> >>
> >>If the moon landig was myth, then what about the prior and subsequent
> >>space 
> >>programs including the shuttle, mars, voyager, etc.?
> >>
> >>The fact that the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment equipment set up on
> >>the 
> >>moon by Apollo 11 astronauts is still being used today by independent
> >>
> >>universities, provides ample proof.
> >>
> >>Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
> >>
> >>Tom C.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >>>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:06 -0400
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>>I've read some interesting and compelling arguments for the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>fakery of
> >>
> >>
> >>>>the moon photographs, but I've read even more interesting and
> >>>>compelling debunkings of those arguments.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Same here.
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>>That's part of why it's so important to let people talk about
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>this
> >>
> >>
> >>>>stuff -- you get specifics that you can examine and attempt to
> >>>>counter.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Right.  Let the nuts speak.  Otherwise you may never know what they
> >>>might say.
> >>>
> >>>Bob
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >>>PDML@pdml.net
> >>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >>PDML@pdml.net
> >>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >__
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> >http://mail.yahoo.com 
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> When you're worried or in doubt, 
>   Run in circles, (scream and shout).
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 


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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

> All too true.
> 
> Is that what they are called, fast food technicians? Oh, boy.
> 
> Marnie aka Doe ;-)
> 

Don't worry - it's only a matter of time before they become fast food
engineers.

Bob



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Re: Talk about crap

[Doug Franklin]

P. J. Alling wrote:

> It's even easier today, than ever before.  Anyone who wants to 
> spend a few bucks a month can start a web site and publish
> anything they want.

Witness my latest effort, only just getting off the ground:

http://SurlyDoug.com

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DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

I'd stay away from that if I were you, far away...

Aaron Reynolds wrote:

>On Jul 26, 2006, at 11:06 AM, keith_w wrote:
>
>  
>
>>When I pay for my "child" to get an education, I do NOT wish that 
>>so-caalled
>>education to consist of piling bushels of input on him, so he can sort 
>>them
>>out with his unformed and untested mind.
>>
>>
>
>Would I be starting a crapalanche if I said something about Intelligent 
>Design?
>
>-Aaron
>
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 7/26/2006 6:54:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter & 
turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food technician.

;-)

Dave 
==
All too true.

Is that what they are called, fast food technicians? Oh, boy.

Marnie aka Doe ;-)

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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

Obviously it was a fig newton of your imagination, (and Cotty's as well 
I would imagine).

frank theriault wrote:

>On 7/25/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>"Norm". Yeah, right.
>>Everyone knows "Norm" is just a figment of Frank Theriault's
>>imagination.
>>
>>
>
>Then who called Cotty from GFM at 5:00am GMT?
>
>cheers,
>frank
>(actually, much of that evening was a figment of my imagination)
>
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

Test not break.

Bob W wrote:

>But it's part of the job description for academics to question and
>test the status quo, conventional thinking etc.
>
>--
>Cheers,
> Bob 
>
>  
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>>Behalf Of Tom C
>>Sent: 25 July 2006 21:49
>>To: pdml@pdml.net
>>Subject: RE: Talk about crap
>>
>>I agree with everything you wrote Bob.  It's just this guy 
>>should go stand 
>>on a street corner somewhere and preach his crap instead of 
>>getting paid to 
>>do it in an institution of so-called higher learning.
>>
>>Tom C.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

I would.  It's a good life.  I'm often sorry I passed on it.

Mark Roberts wrote:

>Paul Stenquist wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I wouldn't hire a lunatic to teach a college course.
>>
>>
>
>Who else would take the job?
>;-)
> 
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

I don't have a problem with free speech, I have a problem with 1.) 
involuntarily paying for it, (supporting them with tax dollars), and 2.) 
Giving them a captive audience.  Otherwise people can say anything they 
want.  It's even easier today, than ever before.  Anyone who wants to 
spend a few bucks a month can start a web site and publish anything they 
want.

Bob W wrote:

>I agree with Aaron on this. 
>
>I'd go a bit further. If you believe in free speech you must defend
>the right of people who are saying things you really don't want to
>hear, and which may well be crackpot, offensive or plain stupid. For
>one thing, it gets these people out into the open so you know who they
>are, and who/what you might have to defend yourself against.
>Subjecting our own opinions and ideas to attack means we strengthen
>those that are of value, and discard those that aren't. This has been
>one of the most powerful weapons in the triumph of democracy - it
>grows stronger because it welcomes scrutiny and critical examination.
>Compare this to totalitarian and theocratic regimes.
>
>Another aspect of free speech, which people often don't consider, is
>our right to hear things and judge them for ourselves, and not to have
>some nanny state or self-proclaimed authority decide what is and is
>not good for our ears. We are adults, so we have the right to listen
>to this sort of guff if we want to, and the right to believe it, or to
>ignore it, or to mock it as we see fit. 
>
>Defending free speech for others is how we defend free thinking for
>ourselves.
>
>--
>Cheers,
> Bob 
>
>  
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>>Behalf Of Aaron Reynolds
>>
>>That's part of why it's so important to let people talk about this 
>>stuff -- you get specifics that you can examine and attempt 
>>to counter.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 7/26/2006 2:54:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That's for post grad school.
When you're a university freshman, and a couple of levels up from there, you 
have to be taught or exposed to truth as we know it. Like all well-learned 
subjects, first get thoroughly grounded in basic facts. Build on them.
The name of he subject is unimportant. Grounding, or immersion in fundamental 
truths as pertains to the subject at hand, is of paramount importance.

keith whaley

That's not quite true. I know this thread is probably done, but I read 
several people saying that.

My experience with college was, and I first started with junior college, that 
our teachers encouraged us in critical thinking. I.E. In examining all sides, 
defending our position (such as in answering essay questions), and 
questioning their opinion. And this was when I was a freshman new at college, 
and not 
with just one teacher, but several. Now maybe at big universities with huge 
lecture halls they don't do that, but they did that at our junior college. 
Later I 
went to a state college and a state university. So I've often wondered if, 
comparatively, I didn't get a better education that way, by starting at a JC 
first. ;-)

It's why when I hit college, I finally learned to love school and learning. 
Before, in high school, and earlier, it was all rote learning. And rote 
learning had definitely been boring.

So I think some are seriously underestimating college freshman and teachers.

Marnie aka Doe 

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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

Hey, what about my Theory that knarf is an auto reply "Eliza" program?

Mark Roberts wrote:

>Norman Baugher wrote:
>
>  
>
>>From: "Tom C" 
>>
>>
>>>Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
>>>  
>>>
>>Just as I thought!! The USSR was in on the conspiracy...
>>Norm
>>
>>
>
>"Norm". Yeah, right.
>Everyone knows "Norm" is just a figment of Frank Theriault's
>imagination.
> 
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

He's more advanced than Eliza... more like MegaHAL.

USER: Live and die for Slayer!
MEGAHAL: A COMPUTER CANNOT DIE FOR SLAYER

-Aaron

-Original Message-

From:  "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj:  Re: Talk about crap
Date:  Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:20 pm
Size:  584 bytes
To:  Pentax-Discuss Mail List 

Hey, what about my Theory that knarf is an auto reply "Eliza" program?

Mark Roberts wrote:

>Norman Baugher wrote:
>
>  
>
>>From: "Tom C" 
>>
>>
>>>Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
>>>  
>>>
>>Just as I thought!! The USSR was in on the conspiracy...
>>Norm
>>
>>
>
>"Norm". Yeah, right.
>Everyone knows "Norm" is just a figment of Frank Theriault's
>imagination.
> 
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

If Moon landing deniers are today's flat earth people, what the heck are 
these wackos?

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Jack Davis wrote:

>Tom,
>These folks are today's "flat earth" people. They are incapable of
>accepting logic and, in fact, covet the desperate claims of the
>rational as validation and a measure of their impact.
>I wouldn't expend further energy honoring their spewings with a
>response.
>
>Jack
>--- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The thing is the moon landing fraud claims are so ludicrous as to be 
>>laughable.  No need to debunk each claim one by one.
>>
>>The entire Apollo project was so demonstrably big, over a number of
>>years, 
>>employing 1000's, if not tens of 1000's of people, not to mention
>>those 
>>overseas connected with the project and the landings themselves that
>>were 
>>not part of NASA or the US government.  How would it be possible to
>>maintain 
>>a conspiracy that large?  The consciences of hundreds of
>>whistleblowers 
>>would have prompted them to scream and shout.
>>
>>If the moon landig was myth, then what about the prior and subsequent
>>space 
>>programs including the shuttle, mars, voyager, etc.?
>>
>>The fact that the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment equipment set up on
>>the 
>>moon by Apollo 11 astronauts is still being used today by independent
>>
>>universities, provides ample proof.
>>
>>Not to mention that the USSR never doubted it as a fact.
>>
>>Tom C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:06 -0400
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>I've read some interesting and compelling arguments for the
>>>>
>>>>
>>fakery of
>>
>>
>>>>the moon photographs, but I've read even more interesting and
>>>>compelling debunkings of those arguments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Same here.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>That's part of why it's so important to let people talk about
>>>>
>>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>>stuff -- you get specifics that you can examine and attempt to
>>>>counter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Right.  Let the nuts speak.  Otherwise you may never know what they
>>>might say.
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

I wouldn't put a lot of credence in the Pentagon having been that well 
defended before 9-11.  During the cold war the USAF flew combat air 
patrols over important installations and had 15min warning ready 
fighters on many airstrips.  Either of these options was very expensive, 
it's expensive to keep a fighter flying and it's almost as expensive to 
keep it ready to fly in 15min from an airfield, even in terms the US 
Gov. understands.  After the cold war most of these precautions were 
dropped as cost ineffective, not that they would have been very 
effective against ICBMs anyway.  The Russians stopped targeting us and 
we stopped targeting them, who else was there? Canada? (Rhetorical 
Question).

frank theriault wrote:

>On 7/25/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>  
>
>>Which part do you consider bullshit?  What the man proposes to teach,
>>or the university defending his right to teach it?  Personally, I
>>think freedom of speech must encompass ideas that the mainstream
>>considers repugnant.
>>
>>
>
>Right you are, Bob!
>
>For one thing, at university, they call them "professors" for a
>reason.  To profess is merely to affirm a belief.  At a post-secondary
>level, the assumption is that students are at a level that they can
>research the professors affirmations and form their own opinions as to
>whether the professor is right or wrong.
>
>Up to the end of high school we have "teachers".  To teach is to
>impart knowledge.  The distinction between teachers and professors is
>an important one.
>
>This guy in Wisconson may (or may not be) a nutbar, but I defend his
>right to lecture whatever he wants.  Moreso, I defend his university's
>right to pay him and have him lecture there.  The fact that tax
>dollars go to that university does not give the taxpayers or the
>legislature the right to demand that the guy gets sacked.  At most, it
>gives them the right to pull those tax dollars out of the place, but
>then 90% or more of the students will be harmed due to (what's
>portrayed as) the rantings of this loonie.
>
>The other thing, of course, is that perhaps, just perhaps, if someone
>actually sat in on this guy's course and read the materials, he might
>have a few accurate things to say, and he might have evidence to back
>up his assertions.  Stranger things have happened.  It's hard to judge
>based on a newspaper article - and a biased one, at that.
>
>I've got to admit, I always wondered how it is that the Pentagon isn't
>one of the best defended buildings in the world, with all the latest
>detection devices and radar and defences.  I've always thought it a
>bit strange that something as complex and difficult to pilot as a
>modern airliner, flown by a rank amateur, managed to get through those
>defences and score a direct hit.  I'm not saying this guy's right, but
>it makes one wonder.
>
>cheers,
>frank
>
>
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[P. J. Alling]

Actually the biggest bullshit is the assumption that a legislature 
doesn't have the right to pull funding from a state university, on the 
basis of academic freedom.  A legislature can do any damned thing that 
they can get a majority to vote for, and frequently proves it. Then 
there's the fact that I'm not sure that spreading actual falsehoods is 
covered under academic freedom either, and just because an academic 
believes something is true, doesn't make it so. Finally something to 
think about.  If the US government were truly behind something like 
this, do you think it would require a loony to talk about it.  Based on 
what I've seen our government leaks like a sieve, it would have been on 
the front page of the NY Times months ago.  If the government were 
capable of keeping such a secret, do you think this guy wouldn't have 
met with an "unfortunate accident" by now.  (No need to discredit 
someone if they're dead). So many holes in this theory, so little time.

Bob Shell wrote:

>On Jul 25, 2006, at 3:49 AM, Don Williams wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Someone posted a bit about the 'moon landing was filmed in Death  
>>Valley
>>lunatics' the other day. Try this one for /real /bullshit:
>>
>>http://email.latimes.com/cgi-bin1/DM/y/e5td0LgybQ0G2B0HjO40EF
>>
>>
>
>
>Which part do you consider bullshit?  What the man proposes to teach,  
>or the university defending his right to teach it?  Personally, I  
>think freedom of speech must encompass ideas that the mainstream  
>considers repugnant.
>
>Bob
>
>  
>


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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

Cotty wrote:
> On 27/7/06, keith_w, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>>> Have you ever seen 'Thunderbolt and Lightfoot' (1974, Clint Eastwood,
>>> Jeff Bridges) ?
>>>
>>> ;-)

>> Yes, long ago...
>> Since I can't recall the theme, it appears it's time to get a copy again and 
>> review it!
>>
>> Aha, I did a Google search, and NOW I recall it.
>> Fun movie. I'll still get it and rerun it!
>> Thanks for the heads up!


> There's a few comical scenes where one of the robbers poses as an ice
> cream vendor ;-)

Ah yes!
My son would get a kick out of it, too.
However, he drives a refrigerated truck that delivers bulk ice cream and milk 
to businesses and schools.

keith

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Re: Talk about crap

[Cotty]

On 27/7/06, keith_w, discombobulated, unleashed:

>> 
>> Have you ever seen 'Thunderbolt and Lightfoot' (1974, Clint Eastwood,
>> Jeff Bridges) ?
>> 
>> ;-)
>
>Yes, long ago...
>Since I can't recall the theme, it appears it's time to get a copy again and 
>review it!
>
>Aha, I did a Google search, and NOW I recall it.
>Fun movie. I'll still get it and rerun it!
>Thanks for the heads up!

There's a few comical scenes where one of the robbers poses as an ice
cream vendor ;-)

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Re: Talk about crap

[Bob Shell]

On Jul 26, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> His premise is that 9/11 was staged by the US government. He claims
> that explosives, not airplanes, brought down the buildings. He's been
> on TV and in some newspapers. I suspect he's history. His vision
> isn't just different, it's absurd.

He'll find plenty of followers in the Muslim world.  Maybe he should  
move to Iraq and become the houseboy for one of the mullahs.

Bob

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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

Aaron Reynolds wrote:
> I think I know why this conversation is confusing me -- in Canada, colleges
> and universities are different animals.  You go to college for a targeted,
> practical education.  You go to university to acquire letters to place
> behind your name on your resume.
> 
> -Aaron

Okay. Makes sense. I misspoke.
I meant "college."

keith

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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

Cotty wrote:
> On 26/7/06, keith_w, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> My son quit school and got a job driving an ice cream truck, for money he 
>> couldn't have made for another 5 or 6 *YEARS* following his chosen line of 
>> education and work.
> 
> Have you ever seen 'Thunderbolt and Lightfoot' (1974, Clint Eastwood,
> Jeff Bridges) ?
> 
> ;-)

Yes, long ago...
Since I can't recall the theme, it appears it's time to get a copy again and 
review it!

Aha, I did a Google search, and NOW I recall it.
Fun movie. I'll still get it and rerun it!
Thanks for the heads up!

keith

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RE: Talk about crap

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: DagT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/07/27 Thu AM 07:55:18 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: RE: Talk about crap
> 
> I need a warning about pictures like this.  I don't want my wife to see it...
> 
> DagT

Don't worry.  He will be a lousy plumber.

> 
> > Fra: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > So are the Polish ones.
> > 
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4115164.stm
> > 
> > Look at the size of his flange!
> > 
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >  Bob 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > > Behalf Of Cotty
> > > Sent: 27 July 2006 08:35
> > > To: pentax list
> > > Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> > > 
> > > On 26/7/06, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
> > > 
> > > >I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that 
> > > plumbers in England can 
> > > >pretty much charge whatever they want, some making 1/4 
> > > million pounds a 
> > > >year.
> > > 
> > > Norwegian plumbers are all off shooting porn
> > > 
> > > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4802928.stm>
> > > 
> > > [office friendly]
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Re: Talk about crap

[Keith McGuinness]

William Robb wrote:
>> Sad, but true.
>> My son quit school and got a job driving an ice cream truck, for money he
>> couldn't have made for another 5 or 6 *YEARS* following his chosen line of
>> education and work.
> 
> Why is it sad?
> Universities have done an excellent job of brainwashing the masses into 
> thinking that their brand of education is the key to happiness and a good 
> job.

What I want to know is why the hell can't we brainwash the 
"masses" into boosting our salaries by 50% or so?

Now that would be something worth doing...

Keith "perhaps I should have done psych" McG


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Re: Talk about crap

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/07/26 Wed PM 11:35:53 GMT
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "keith_w"
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use, not
> > some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true, but
> > it
> > runs against logic and science. Junk...
> 
> Then send him to trade school, not university.
> We need people to make the mundane stuff like houses more than we need
> another crop of university educated buffoons.

What makes you think they would be any good at producing mundane stuff?  You 
should see the arse that is being made here of moving from one office to 
another...


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RE: Talk about crap

[DagT]

I need a warning about pictures like this.  I don't want my wife to see it...

DagT

> Fra: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> So are the Polish ones.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4115164.stm
> 
> Look at the size of his flange!
> 
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of Cotty
> > Sent: 27 July 2006 08:35
> > To: pentax list
> > Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> > 
> > On 26/7/06, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
> > 
> > >I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that 
> > plumbers in England can 
> > >pretty much charge whatever they want, some making 1/4 
> > million pounds a 
> > >year.
> > 
> > Norwegian plumbers are all off shooting porn
> > 
> > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4802928.stm>
> > 
> > [office friendly]
> > 
> > -- 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 


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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

So are the Polish ones.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4115164.stm

Look at the size of his flange!

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Cotty
> Sent: 27 July 2006 08:35
> To: pentax list
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> On 26/7/06, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
> >I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that 
> plumbers in England can 
> >pretty much charge whatever they want, some making 1/4 
> million pounds a 
> >year.
> 
> Norwegian plumbers are all off shooting porn
> 
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4802928.stm>
> 
> [office friendly]
> 
> -- 



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Re: Talk about crap

[Cotty]

On 26/7/06, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that plumbers in England can 
>pretty much charge whatever they want, some making 1/4 million pounds a 
>year.

Norwegian plumbers are all off shooting porn



[office friendly]

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Re: Talk about crap

[Cotty]

On 26/7/06, keith_w, discombobulated, unleashed:

>My son quit school and got a job driving an ice cream truck, for money he 
>couldn't have made for another 5 or 6 *YEARS* following his chosen line of 
>education and work.

Have you ever seen 'Thunderbolt and Lightfoot' (1974, Clint Eastwood,
Jeff Bridges) ?

;-)

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Re: Talk about crap

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "keith_w"
Subject: Re: Talk about crap



> Sad, but true.
> My son quit school and got a job driving an ice cream truck, for money he
> couldn't have made for another 5 or 6 *YEARS* following his chosen line of
> education and work.
>
> Guess what? He loves it and is absolutely certain he made the right 
> choice.
> On the side, he services pools, in Phoenix. Hot job, but plenty of work, 
> and
> I've no doubt he will be making 3 times his previous projected earnings, 
> in
> LESS than 5 years!
>
> After all, what is it a young bread winner wants? To make enough bucks to
> support a family and have a nice home and car.
> This way he can do it. The other way, who KNOWs when he could have done 
> it?
>
> College and $100,000 debt is not for everyone... 

Why is it sad?
Universities have done an excellent job of brainwashing the masses into 
thinking that their brand of education is the key to happiness and a good 
job.
Enough people have bought into it that tradesmen are in really short supply, 
and are very much in demand.
I am sure that this is not universal, but around where I am, trademen are 
guaranteed to be able to work in their chosen field, make a good income, and 
have job security for life.
They also get paid while recieving their education.

William Robb 



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Re: Talk about crap

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "David Savage"
Subject: Re: Talk about crap


> At 07:35 AM 27/07/2006, William Robb wrote:

>
> At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter &
> turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food 
> technician.
>
> ;-)

I'm paying journeyman electricians upwards of $70.00 an hour at the moment. 
I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that plumbers in England can 
pretty much charge whatever they want, some making 1/4 million pounds a 
year.
The tradesmen don't seem to have a lot of stress in their lives either, 
which is more than I can say for the desk jockeys that I know.
They are also in better physical condition, and don't have to buy 
memberships at the gym to stay in shape.

William Robb 



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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

This seems to imply that Pearl Harbor was something the US government was in on 
-- what nonsense!  He should be terminated for trying to fill your youths' head 
full of tripe like that.

I mean honestly...

-Aaron

-Original Message-

From:  "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

2. After reviewing all the evidence, he concludes that  9/11 was a new Pearl 
Harbor, an inside job designed by intelligence agencies and most likely 
commanded and authorized by Cheney.

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Re: Talk about crap

[Keith McGuinness]

Mark Roberts wrote:
> You should go to a college/university to learn about something if the
> goal of your learning is *learning*. If the goal of your learning is
> getting a job, go to trade school because it's a situation in which
> everyone wins: Your future employer wins, the trade school you go to
> wins and the university you don't go to wins.

You got to a trade school to be a doctor? There are more 
differences between the US and Australian systems than I thought!

About 40% of the students in my classes this year are pursuing a 
career in pharmacy. I don't think there goal is learning in some 
generalised sense.

Keith McG

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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

I think I know why this conversation is confusing me -- in Canada, colleges and 
universities are different animals.  You go to college for a targeted, 
practical education.  You go to university to acquire letters to place behind 
your name on your resume.

-Aaron

-Original Message-

From:  Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj:  Re: Talk about crap
Date:  Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:07 pm
Size:  1K
To:  Pentax-Discuss Mail List 

David Savage wrote:

>At 07:35 AM 27/07/2006, William Robb wrote:
>
>>From: "keith_w"
>>
>> > I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use, not
>> > some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true, but
>> > it
>> > runs against logic and science. Junk...
>>
>>Then send him to trade school, not university.
>>We need people to make the mundane stuff like houses more than we need
>>another crop of university educated buffoons.
>
>Too true.
>
>At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter & 
>turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food technician.

Speaking as a newly-inducted member of academia and the teaching staff
of a university...

I agree completely.

You should go to a college/university to learn about something if the
goal of your learning is *learning*. If the goal of your learning is
getting a job, go to trade school because it's a situation in which
everyone wins: Your future employer wins, the trade school you go to
wins and the university you don't go to wins.
 
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412-687-2835

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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

David Savage wrote:
> At 07:35 AM 27/07/2006, William Robb wrote:
> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "keith_w"
>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>>
>>> I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use, not
>>> some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true, but
>>> it
>>> runs against logic and science. Junk...
>> Then send him to trade school, not university.
>> We need people to make the mundane stuff like houses more than we need
>> another crop of university educated buffoons.
>>
>> William Robb
> 
> Too true.
> 
> At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter & 
> turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food technician.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Dave 

Sad, but true.
My son quit school and got a job driving an ice cream truck, for money he 
couldn't have made for another 5 or 6 *YEARS* following his chosen line of 
education and work.

Guess what? He loves it and is absolutely certain he made the right choice.
On the side, he services pools, in Phoenix. Hot job, but plenty of work, and 
I've no doubt he will be making 3 times his previous projected earnings, in 
LESS than 5 years!

After all, what is it a young bread winner wants? To make enough bucks to 
support a family and have a nice home and car.
This way he can do it. The other way, who KNOWs when he could have done it?

College and $100,000 debt is not for everyone... 

keith


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Re: Talk about crap

[Mark Roberts]

David Savage wrote:

>At 07:35 AM 27/07/2006, William Robb wrote:
>
>>From: "keith_w"
>>
>> > I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use, not
>> > some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true, but
>> > it
>> > runs against logic and science. Junk...
>>
>>Then send him to trade school, not university.
>>We need people to make the mundane stuff like houses more than we need
>>another crop of university educated buffoons.
>
>Too true.
>
>At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter & 
>turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food technician.

Speaking as a newly-inducted member of academia and the teaching staff
of a university...

I agree completely.

You should go to a college/university to learn about something if the
goal of your learning is *learning*. If the goal of your learning is
getting a job, go to trade school because it's a situation in which
everyone wins: Your future employer wins, the trade school you go to
wins and the university you don't go to wins.
 
-- 
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412-687-2835

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Re: Talk about crap

[David Savage]

At 07:35 AM 27/07/2006, William Robb wrote:

>- Original Message -
>From: "keith_w"
>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>
> > I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use, not
> > some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true, but
> > it
> > runs against logic and science. Junk...
>
>Then send him to trade school, not university.
>We need people to make the mundane stuff like houses more than we need
>another crop of university educated buffoons.
>
>William Robb

Too true.

At the moment a good tradesman (Electrician, carpenter, welder, fitter & 
turner etc.) can make more than any university educated fast food technician.

;-)

Dave 


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Re: Talk about crap

[Paul Stenquist]

His premise is that 9/11 was staged by the US government. He claims  
that explosives, not airplanes, brought down the buildings. He's been  
on TV and in some newspapers. I suspect he's history. His vision  
isn't just different, it's absurd.
Paul
On Jul 26, 2006, at 6:48 PM, Aaron Reynolds wrote:

> And what were they?  The article is very vague.
>
> -Aaron
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From:  "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subj:  Re: Talk about crap
> Date:  Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:33 pm
> Size:  1K
> To:  pdml@pdml.net
>
> I saw him on televison Aaron.  The claims came from his own mouth.   
> He was
> not teaching the class how to discern truth from falsehood.
>
> Tom C.
>
>
>
>
>> From: Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:55:20 -0400
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:
>>
>>> I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the
>>> least if he got the boot.
>>
>> Keith, you wouldn't feel that your academic freedom would be  
>> infringed
>> if a professor were booted without an examination of the material or
>> even a single person knowing what his claims actually are?  Just  
>> based
>> on a single line in a newspaper article describing what we can only
>> assume is the most sensational part of his intended lecture, and
>> without context?
>>
>> What if he's presenting it to be debunked by the class as an exercise
>> but loses his job on the strength of this newspaper article -- would
>> you still feel that your academic freedom had not been infringed  
>> then?
>>
>> What I've been trying to say (and for some reason this got me labeled
>> as a 9/11 Denier) is that someone should, you know, find out what  
>> he's
>> actually saying before the man is condemned for saying it.
>>
>> -Aaron
>>
>> --
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>
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "keith_w"
Subject: Re: Talk about crap




>
> I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use, not
> some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true, but
> it
> runs against logic and science. Junk...

Then send him to trade school, not university.
We need people to make the mundane stuff like houses more than we need
another crop of university educated buffoons.

William Robb



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Re: Talk about crap

[Tom C]

CNN clip at http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/21/Sept.11.prof.ap/index.html

Essentially...

1. Most in the Muslim world believe 9/11 was an inside job.
2. After reviewing all the evidence, he concludes that  9/11 was a new Pearl 
Harbor, an inside job designed by intelligence agencies and most likely 
commanded and authorized by Cheney.
3. The buildings in New York were brought down by controlled demolitions, 
running airplanes into them as a cover.
4. According to a university higher-up, the course is supposed to foster 
critical thinking.


Tom C.




>From: "Aaron Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:48:00 -0400
>
>And what were they?  The article is very vague.
>
>-Aaron
>
>-Original Message-----
>
>From:  "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subj:  Re: Talk about crap
>Date:  Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:33 pm
>Size:  1K
>To:  pdml@pdml.net
>
>I saw him on televison Aaron.  The claims came from his own mouth.  He was
>not teaching the class how to discern truth from falsehood.
>
>Tom C.
>
>
>
>
> >From: Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> >Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:55:20 -0400
> >
> >
> >On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:
> >
> > > I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the
> > > least if he got the boot.
> >
> >Keith, you wouldn't feel that your academic freedom would be infringed
> >if a professor were booted without an examination of the material or
> >even a single person knowing what his claims actually are?  Just based
> >on a single line in a newspaper article describing what we can only
> >assume is the most sensational part of his intended lecture, and
> >without context?
> >
> >What if he's presenting it to be debunked by the class as an exercise
> >but loses his job on the strength of this newspaper article -- would
> >you still feel that your academic freedom had not been infringed then?
> >
> >What I've been trying to say (and for some reason this got me labeled
> >as a 9/11 Denier) is that someone should, you know, find out what he's
> >actually saying before the man is condemned for saying it.
> >
> >-Aaron
> >
> >--
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>
>
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

And what were they?  The article is very vague.

-Aaron

-Original Message-

From:  "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj:  Re: Talk about crap
Date:  Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:33 pm
Size:  1K
To:  pdml@pdml.net

I saw him on televison Aaron.  The claims came from his own mouth.  He was 
not teaching the class how to discern truth from falsehood.

Tom C.




>From: Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:55:20 -0400
>
>
>On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:
>
> > I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the
> > least if he got the boot.
>
>Keith, you wouldn't feel that your academic freedom would be infringed
>if a professor were booted without an examination of the material or
>even a single person knowing what his claims actually are?  Just based
>on a single line in a newspaper article describing what we can only
>assume is the most sensational part of his intended lecture, and
>without context?
>
>What if he's presenting it to be debunked by the class as an exercise
>but loses his job on the strength of this newspaper article -- would
>you still feel that your academic freedom had not been infringed then?
>
>What I've been trying to say (and for some reason this got me labeled
>as a 9/11 Denier) is that someone should, you know, find out what he's
>actually saying before the man is condemned for saying it.
>
>-Aaron
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[Tom C]

I saw him on televison Aaron.  The claims came from his own mouth.  He was 
not teaching the class how to discern truth from falsehood.

Tom C.




>From: Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>Subject: Re: Talk about crap
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:55:20 -0400
>
>
>On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:
>
> > I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the
> > least if he got the boot.
>
>Keith, you wouldn't feel that your academic freedom would be infringed
>if a professor were booted without an examination of the material or
>even a single person knowing what his claims actually are?  Just based
>on a single line in a newspaper article describing what we can only
>assume is the most sensational part of his intended lecture, and
>without context?
>
>What if he's presenting it to be debunked by the class as an exercise
>but loses his job on the strength of this newspaper article -- would
>you still feel that your academic freedom had not been infringed then?
>
>What I've been trying to say (and for some reason this got me labeled
>as a 9/11 Denier) is that someone should, you know, find out what he's
>actually saying before the man is condemned for saying it.
>
>-Aaron
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[Tom C]

Keith Whaley wrote:

>
>No, neither are we expected to discern what any given truth is, when our
>analyzing skills are so under-developed.
>That's what we're in university for. To develop ways ~ tools ~ for 
>separating
>the wheat from the chaff... Ways to tell who the liar is, who the ignorant 
>one
>is. Who's the inept "teacher." There are many. I know from experience.
>Yet, when I was 18 and 19 I sure didn't. That experience came years 
>later...
>

I find this interesting on several counts.

First there are oodles (tech term) of highly educated individuals who still 
can't discern truth from falsehood (whether they were/are the teacher or 
student).  Going to an institution of higher learning is no guarantee of 
somehow becoming intellectually superior (if such a thing actually exists). 
In some cases I think it may lead to the opposite result.  That education 
was PAID FOR DEARLY, so  I must believe everything I'm told.

Second, I actually believe most 18 or 19 year olds SHOULD have the 
wherewithall to be able to sort out truth from falsehood, proven fact from 
conjecture. They definitely have more experience than a 3, 8, 12 year old.  
I agree that practice and experience certainly enhance one's ability.

In the case of this professor, if any of his students believes what he says 
(I saw a television interview in which the claims came out of his own 
mouth), then they deserve to be booted out as well and their seats given to 
individuals possessing brains.  As far as getting paid is concerned, if I 
were to go about my job, taking the time to explore every remote 
possiblility, design, methodology, for creating a product, and stood up with 
an approach that was so counter to what is known or believed to be true, I 
would shortly be unemployed.

Tom C.



Tom C.



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Re: Talk about crap

[DagT]

Den 26. jul. 2006 kl. 23.49 skrev John Forbes:

> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:30:37 +0100, John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> And, of course, for the maths department you need to hire the  
>> resident
>> loon on sci.math who claims to have a simple proof of Fermat's last
>> theorem (insert obligatory joke here about the margins of this post
>> being too small to contain the proof).
>>
>> There's a reason why the patent department returns claims about
>> perpetual motion machines, unopened, and it's not to suppress
>> freedom of speech - it's to avoid wasting everybody's time.
>
> I had the impression that the US Patent Department registers every  
> patent
> application it receives.  That's why US patent law is such a mess.
>
> John

Not completely true, but it may seem that way sometimes.

Regarding perpetual motion machines it is a fact that the  
international patent classification system has classes for such  
things.  Usually getting that class on your application leads to a  
final rejection, but in the US they do in fact have some granted  
patents on inventions being classified as perpetual motion machines...

DagT
http://dag.foto.no

Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side.




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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

On Jul 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:

> I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the
> least if he got the boot.

Keith, you wouldn't feel that your academic freedom would be infringed 
if a professor were booted without an examination of the material or 
even a single person knowing what his claims actually are?  Just based 
on a single line in a newspaper article describing what we can only 
assume is the most sensational part of his intended lecture, and 
without context?

What if he's presenting it to be debunked by the class as an exercise 
but loses his job on the strength of this newspaper article -- would 
you still feel that your academic freedom had not been infringed then?

What I've been trying to say (and for some reason this got me labeled 
as a 9/11 Denier) is that someone should, you know, find out what he's 
actually saying before the man is condemned for saying it.

-Aaron

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Re: Talk about crap

[John Forbes]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:30:37 +0100, John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> And, of course, for the maths department you need to hire the resident
> loon on sci.math who claims to have a simple proof of Fermat's last
> theorem (insert obligatory joke here about the margins of this post
> being too small to contain the proof).
>
> There's a reason why the patent department returns claims about
> perpetual motion machines, unopened, and it's not to suppress
> freedom of speech - it's to avoid wasting everybody's time.

I had the impression that the US Patent Department registers every patent  
application it receives.  That's why US patent law is such a mess.

John

> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:41:28AM -0400, graywolf wrote:
>> Then you would not object to paying me to teach a course about Perpetual
>> Motion Engineering at the University of Toronto? Or how about a couse
>> about how Jackie had Marilyn murdered because John was going to devorce
>> her and marry Marilyn (which is no where near as far fetched as the 9/11
>> conspiracy stuff)?
>>
>> --
>> graywolf
>> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
>> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
>> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
>> ---
>>
>>
>> frank theriault wrote:
>> > On 7/25/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> I will defend the guys right to get up on a soap box, or write on the
>> >> Internet, but I do not think he should be given official sanction or  
>> tax
>> >> payer dollars to do so. Are we required to support every crackpot who
>> >> wishes to tell us about his hallucinations?
>> >
>> > It rankles me that people use the "not with my tax dollars" argument
>> > to try to muzzle academics whose views don't coincide with theirs.
>> >
>> > I didn't realize that part of the deal with public funds going to
>> > universities was to allow the public to set curriculum, or otherwise
>> > tell profs what to say (or not to say).
>> >
>> > In fact, I thought that tax dollars going to post-secondary
>> > institutions was all about recognizing that the particular values and
>> > freedoms of academia were worth preserving and promoting, not so that
>> > the government or the people could use that funding as a platform to
>> > promote personal or popular agendas or censor unpopular thoughts.
>> >
>> > I guess I'm naive.
>> >
>> > cheers,
>> > frank
>>
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>



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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

Steve Desjardins wrote:
> Sorry, but this is how education works.  You can't say "believe what I
> tell you, Oh untested mind, because I am an expert who knows all while
> this other idiot is full of crap".  You have to explain why that idiot's
> theories are crap.  

That's for post grad school.
When you're a university freshman, and a couple of levels up from there, you 
have to be taught or exposed to truth as we know it. Like all well-learned 
subjects, first get thoroughly grounded in basic facts. Build on them.
The name of he subject is unimportant. Grounding, or immersion in fundamental 
truths as pertains to the subject at hand, is of paramount importance.

You most definitely do *not* say, I'm going to teach you how to add 2+1, 2+2 
and 2+3.
It's up to you to figure out which of the three answers I give you is the 
correct answer.

> We don't have a big book on the shelf that says
> "Truth" on the spine.  

No, neither are we expected to discern what any given truth is, when our 
analyzing skills are so under-developed.
That's what we're in university for. To develop ways ~ tools ~ for separating 
the wheat from the chaff... Ways to tell who the liar is, who the ignorant one 
is. Who's the inept "teacher." There are many. I know from experience.
Yet, when I was 18 and 19 I sure didn't. That experience came years later...

> Actually, that's not true; we have thousands of
> them.  That's why the students are here to learn how to think, not just
> to learn "facts".  Here is one simple observation I have made.  There
> are large groups of people on this planet on the order of billions who
> cannot agree on the most basic "facts" of human existence.  If I tried
> to simply indoctrinate students with my perspective on the "truth" I
> would get angry phones calls from parents asking why I am teaching their
> kids this "crap".  
> 
> This particular example is a bit extreme but that makes it even more
> important to say "this is why he is wrong" rather than to say "we're
> going to fire this guy becuase we don't like what he says".  If I were
> 19, I know what I would think about the latter case.

 keith_w <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7/26/2006 11:06:42 AM >>>
> Steve Desjardins wrote:
>> Hey folks.
>>
>> Learning comes in many different forms.
>>
>> Of course you let this idiot teach.  Things like this thrive in dark
>> corners (even on the internet) where they can go unchallenged.  In
>> this case this theory is being aired in a public forum where it can be
>> challenged.  

What public forum? I'm missing something!

>> Most people don't read the journals where this guy
>> publishes. Besides, students MUST be exposed to this kind thing. 

Not when they are undergraduate Freshmen.

>> Life doesn't come in balanced packages. It's typically one side
>> expressing their viewpoint supported by convenient facts and 
 >> convenient omissions.

Right. First give them the tools to tell the difference. To work out the 
discrepancies by themselves. But, that comes later.

>> There are many "experts" in the world that can make any position
>> sound  well defended and reasonable and have millions believe them.
>> Just look at the middle east.

Don't know what this means.
The movers and shakers over there use ultra-rabid religious threats and 
promises to bring their believers to their knees.
Using the Middle East as an analogy is not doing it...

>> Somebody has to publically debunk this guy in a way that the
>≥ students can learn from. 

Publically? I thought we were taking about a university professor.

keith whaley


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Re: Talk about crap

[Keith McGuinness]

frank theriault wrote:
> On 7/25/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I will defend the guys right to get up on a soap box, or write on the
>> Internet, but I do not think he should be given official sanction or tax
>> payer dollars to do so. Are we required to support every crackpot who
>> wishes to tell us about his hallucinations?
> 
> I didn't realize that part of the deal with public funds going to
> universities was to allow the public to set curriculum, or otherwise
> tell profs what to say (or not to say).
> 
> In fact, I thought that tax dollars going to post-secondary
> institutions was all about recognizing that the particular values and
> freedoms of academia were worth preserving and promoting, not so that
> the government or the people could use that funding as a platform to
> promote personal or popular agendas or censor unpopular thoughts.

Our job, as academics, is to teach NOT preach. It sounds to me as 
if this guy is doing the latter more than the former. Also, we 
have an obligation to review and present the facts fairly. It 
also does NOT sound as if he is doing that.

I don't feel that my academic freedom would be infringed in the 
least if he got the boot.

In part, my academic freedom means that I should not be compelled 
to espouse a particular view, in my area of expertise, for 
political or other reasons. For instance, if I think a particular 
development is going to do bad things to the nearby mangroves, I 
can say so and use my expert knowledge to support my view. The 
government should not be able to shut me up because it favours 
that particular project.

Keith McG


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RE: Talk about crap

[Tom C]

Darn you Bob! You beat me to it!

Tom C.




>From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" 
>Subject: RE: Talk about crap
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:26:16 +0100
>
>I've never done this before, so if I get it wrong, please excuse me.
>
> > If you are going to be taught
> > nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.
> >
>
>Mark!
>
>I think Graywolf is the greatest philosopher in the entire pdml!
>
>--
>Cheers,
>  Bob
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of graywolf
> > Sent: 26 July 2006 21:18
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> >
> > But he was correct. All you need is all the facts and a
> > powerful enough
> > computer. Boulders are not capable of self-determination and
> > follow pure
> > physical rules. However, if he was applying that to
> > psychology he was an
> > ass, and you did the correct thing. If you are going to be taught
> > nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.
> >
> > --
> > graywolf
> > http://www.graywolfphoto.com
> > http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
> > "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
> > ---
>
>
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[frank theriault]

On 7/26/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But he was correct. All you need is all the facts and a powerful enough
> computer. Boulders are not capable of self-determination and follow pure
> physical rules.

Correct!

> However, if he was applying that to psychology he was an
> ass,

So I thought.

> and you did the correct thing.

Perhaps yes, perhaps no.

> If you are going to be taught
> nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.

LOL!!  That's the best one I've heard today!!

cheers,
frank

-- 
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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

I've never done this before, so if I get it wrong, please excuse me.

> If you are going to be taught 
> nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.
> 

Mark!

I think Graywolf is the greatest philosopher in the entire pdml!

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of graywolf
> Sent: 26 July 2006 21:18
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Talk about crap
> 
> But he was correct. All you need is all the facts and a 
> powerful enough 
> computer. Boulders are not capable of self-determination and 
> follow pure 
> physical rules. However, if he was applying that to 
> psychology he was an 
> ass, and you did the correct thing. If you are going to be taught 
> nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.
> 
> -- 
> graywolf
> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
> ---



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Re: Talk about crap

[frank theriault]

On 7/26/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Your psychology professor must have been a Jansenist. 

Or a Calvinist.

cheers,
frank

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Re: Talk about crap

[graywolf]

But he was correct. All you need is all the facts and a powerful enough 
computer. Boulders are not capable of self-determination and follow pure 
physical rules. However, if he was applying that to psychology he was an 
ass, and you did the correct thing. If you are going to be taught 
nonsense, philosophy is the proper place to learn it.

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"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


frank theriault wrote:
> On 7/26/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Then you would not object to paying me to teach a course about Perpetual
>> Motion Engineering at the University of Toronto? Or how about a couse
>> about how Jackie had Marilyn murdered because John was going to devorce
>> her and marry Marilyn (which is no where near as far fetched as the 9/11
>> conspiracy stuff)?
> 
> Our universities are more heavily funded with tax dollars than yours
> are in the States, IIRC, and no, I wouldn't mind if anyone here taught
> those courses, partially funded by the public purse.
> 
> Universities teach all sorts of things that I don't believe in, like
> sociology, psychology and (white male's) history, but I don't complain
> about that.
> 
> I remember the very first university lecture that I attended: it was
> intro psychology.  Within the first 5 minutes the prof said, "The
> first thing you must understand is that we live in a deterministic
> universe.  Every thing is predetermined.  The reason we can't predict
> the exact path of a boulder bouncing down a hill is that we don't know
> all the variables.  If we knew them all with perfect accuracy, and if
> we could calculate the effect of all of them, we could perfectly
> predict the path of the careening boulder.  The universe is like that,
> and so are human beings."
> 
> That was presented as fact, not opinion.  To me it was as much folly
> as teaching Marilyn Munroe conspiracy theories or teaching that US
> Gov't bombs helped fell the WTC.
> 
> I didn't try to muzzle the prof, get that course off the curriculum or
> anything like that.  I dropped the course, changed majors, and took
> philosophy (and look where it got me today!! ).
> 
> cheers,
> frank

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RE: Talk about crap

[Bob W]

Your psychology professor must have been a Jansenist.

My linguistics tutor was deaf, which always struck me as probably a
disadvantage for someone in his field. However, now that I too am
practically deaf I've started to revise my opinion. 

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> 
> Our universities are more heavily funded with tax dollars than yours
> are in the States, IIRC, and no, I wouldn't mind if anyone here
taught
> those courses, partially funded by the public purse.
> 
> Universities teach all sorts of things that I don't believe in, like
> sociology, psychology and (white male's) history, but I don't
complain
> about that.
> 
> I remember the very first university lecture that I attended: it was
> intro psychology.  Within the first 5 minutes the prof said, "The
> first thing you must understand is that we live in a deterministic
> universe.  Every thing is predetermined.  The reason we can't
predict
> the exact path of a boulder bouncing down a hill is that we don't
know
> all the variables.  If we knew them all with perfect accuracy, and
if
> we could calculate the effect of all of them, we could perfectly
> predict the path of the careening boulder.  The universe is like
that,
> and so are human beings."
> 
> That was presented as fact, not opinion.  To me it was as much folly
> as teaching Marilyn Munroe conspiracy theories or teaching that US
> Gov't bombs helped fell the WTC.
> 
> I didn't try to muzzle the prof, get that course off the curriculum
or
> anything like that.  I dropped the course, changed majors, and took
> philosophy (and look where it got me today!! ).
> 
> cheers,
> frank
> -- 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> -- 
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> 
> 
> 



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Re: Talk about crap

[frank theriault]

On 7/26/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Then you would not object to paying me to teach a course about Perpetual
> Motion Engineering at the University of Toronto? Or how about a couse
> about how Jackie had Marilyn murdered because John was going to devorce
> her and marry Marilyn (which is no where near as far fetched as the 9/11
> conspiracy stuff)?

Our universities are more heavily funded with tax dollars than yours
are in the States, IIRC, and no, I wouldn't mind if anyone here taught
those courses, partially funded by the public purse.

Universities teach all sorts of things that I don't believe in, like
sociology, psychology and (white male's) history, but I don't complain
about that.

I remember the very first university lecture that I attended: it was
intro psychology.  Within the first 5 minutes the prof said, "The
first thing you must understand is that we live in a deterministic
universe.  Every thing is predetermined.  The reason we can't predict
the exact path of a boulder bouncing down a hill is that we don't know
all the variables.  If we knew them all with perfect accuracy, and if
we could calculate the effect of all of them, we could perfectly
predict the path of the careening boulder.  The universe is like that,
and so are human beings."

That was presented as fact, not opinion.  To me it was as much folly
as teaching Marilyn Munroe conspiracy theories or teaching that US
Gov't bombs helped fell the WTC.

I didn't try to muzzle the prof, get that course off the curriculum or
anything like that.  I dropped the course, changed majors, and took
philosophy (and look where it got me today!! ).

cheers,
frank
-- 
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Re: Talk about crap

[Steve Desjardins]

Sorry, but this is how education works.  You can't say "believe what I
tell you, Oh untested mind, because I am an expert who knows all while
this other idiot is full of crap".  You have to explain why that idiot's
theories are crap.  We don't have a big book on the shelf that says
"Truth" on the spine.  Actually, that's not true; we have thousands of
them.  That's why the students are here to learn how to think, not just
to learn "facts".  Here is one simple observation I have made.  There
are large groups of people on this planet on the order of billions who
cannot agree on the most basic "facts" of human existence.  If I tried
to simply indoctrinate students with my perspective on the "truth" I
would get angry phones calls from parents asking why I am teaching their
kids this "crap".  

This particular example is a bit extreme but that makes it even more
important to say "this is why he is wrong" rather than to say "we're
going to fire this guy becuase we don't like what he says".  If I were
19, I know what I would think about the latter case.


>>> keith_w <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7/26/2006 11:06:42 AM >>>
Steve Desjardins wrote:
> Hey folks.
> 
> Learning comes in many different forms.
> 
> Of course you let this idiot teach.  Things like this thrive in dark
> corners (even on the internet) where they can go unchallenged.  In
this
> case this theory is being aired in a public forum where it can be
> challenged.  Most people don't read the journals where this guy
> publishes. Besides, students MUST be exposed to this kind thing. 
Life
> doesn't come in balanced packages.   It's typically one side
expressing
> their viewpoint supported by convenient facts and convenient
omissions. 

When I pay for my "child" to get an education, I do NOT wish that
so-caalled 
education to consist of piling bushels of input on him, so he can sort
them 
out with his unformed and untested mind.
Kids of University age are pretty much incapable of assessing whether
what a 
professor is trying to teach them is precious or fool's gold.
They don't know enough...
If they are going to be expected to figure it out for themselves by
trial and 
error, double the time in University to 8 years.

I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use,
not 
some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true,
but it 
runs against logic and science. Junk...
I want that decision made ahead of time, so as to maximize the 4 years
he has 
to spend. Even one class that's junk science (or junk anything) is one
too 
many. By the time the student gains enough knowledge on his own to
ferret out 
who's a charlatan, he's wasted a lot of precious time.

>  There are many "experts" in the world that can make any position
sound
> well defended and reasonable and have millions believe them.  Just
look
> at the middle east.
> 
> Somebody has to publically debunk this guy in a way that the
students
> can learn from.  If no one can do it or if no one simply does do it,
> well, that's where new governments and religions come from.

And we sure need more of those, don't we...

> Steven Desjardins

keith whaley

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Re: Talk about crap

[j]

There is a movie out called Was it only a paper moon..Look for it on the web.


At 09:06 AM 7/25/06, you wrote:

>On Jul 25, 2006, at 8:32 AM, Bob Shell wrote:
>
> >  Personally, I don't doubt for a minute that men
> > actually landed on the moon, walked around, drove around, hit golf
> > balls, etc.  But at the same time I do think some of the moon
> > photographs are fakes.
>
>I've read some interesting and compelling arguments for the fakery of
>the moon photographs, but I've read even more interesting and
>compelling debunkings of those arguments.
>
>That's part of why it's so important to let people talk about this
>stuff -- you get specifics that you can examine and attempt to counter.
>
>-Aaron
>
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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

Aaron Reynolds wrote:
> On Jul 26, 2006, at 11:06 AM, keith_w wrote:
> 
>> When I pay for my "child" to get an education, I do NOT wish that 
>> so-called education to consist of piling bushels of input on him, 
 >> so he can sort them out with his unformed and untested mind.


> Would I be starting a crapalanche if I said something about Intelligent 
> Design?
> 
> -Aaron

Hah, hah...not with me, Aaron, but undoubtedly so with some others on this list.

Anyone can feel free to email me privately, if you want.
I have plenty of ideas aforming re Intelligent Design, so I'm open to 
discussion.

keith whaley
- still learning at my ripe ol' age! 

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Re: Talk about crap

[John Francis]

And, of course, for the maths department you need to hire the resident
loon on sci.math who claims to have a simple proof of Fermat's last
theorem (insert obligatory joke here about the margins of this post
being too small to contain the proof).

There's a reason why the patent department returns claims about
perpetual motion machines, unopened, and it's not to suppress
freedom of speech - it's to avoid wasting everybody's time.


On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:41:28AM -0400, graywolf wrote:
> Then you would not object to paying me to teach a course about Perpetual 
> Motion Engineering at the University of Toronto? Or how about a couse 
> about how Jackie had Marilyn murdered because John was going to devorce 
> her and marry Marilyn (which is no where near as far fetched as the 9/11 
> conspiracy stuff)?
> 
> -- 
> graywolf
> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
> ---
> 
> 
> frank theriault wrote:
> > On 7/25/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I will defend the guys right to get up on a soap box, or write on the
> >> Internet, but I do not think he should be given official sanction or tax
> >> payer dollars to do so. Are we required to support every crackpot who
> >> wishes to tell us about his hallucinations?
> > 
> > It rankles me that people use the "not with my tax dollars" argument
> > to try to muzzle academics whose views don't coincide with theirs.
> > 
> > I didn't realize that part of the deal with public funds going to
> > universities was to allow the public to set curriculum, or otherwise
> > tell profs what to say (or not to say).
> > 
> > In fact, I thought that tax dollars going to post-secondary
> > institutions was all about recognizing that the particular values and
> > freedoms of academia were worth preserving and promoting, not so that
> > the government or the people could use that funding as a platform to
> > promote personal or popular agendas or censor unpopular thoughts.
> > 
> > I guess I'm naive.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > frank
> 
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Re: Talk about crap

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 7/26/2006 7:44:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Or how about a couse 
about how Jackie had Marilyn murdered because John was going to devorce 
her and marry Marilyn (which is no where near as far fetched as the 9/11 
conspiracy stuff)?

-- 
graywolf
===
Now that's just stupid. Everyone knows John had Marilyn murdered because she 
had transferred her affections to Robert and he was afraid of a scandal that 
would involve the whole family. A one night hanky panky was okay, but the 
implication of two serious affairs with both the Attorney General and the Prez 
could have exploded politically in their faces.

Marnie aka Doe ;-)  Hmmm, actually that sounds sort of believable. 

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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

On Jul 26, 2006, at 11:06 AM, keith_w wrote:

> When I pay for my "child" to get an education, I do NOT wish that 
> so-caalled
> education to consist of piling bushels of input on him, so he can sort 
> them
> out with his unformed and untested mind.

Would I be starting a crapalanche if I said something about Intelligent 
Design?

-Aaron

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Re: Talk about crap

[David Savage]

On 7/26/06, keith_w <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use...

I hope he's not doing an arts degree then.

:-)

Dave (I don't have any degree ;-)

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Re: Talk about crap

[keith_w]

Steve Desjardins wrote:
> Hey folks.
> 
> Learning comes in many different forms.
> 
> Of course you let this idiot teach.  Things like this thrive in dark
> corners (even on the internet) where they can go unchallenged.  In this
> case this theory is being aired in a public forum where it can be
> challenged.  Most people don't read the journals where this guy
> publishes. Besides, students MUST be exposed to this kind thing.  Life
> doesn't come in balanced packages.   It's typically one side expressing
> their viewpoint supported by convenient facts and convenient omissions. 

When I pay for my "child" to get an education, I do NOT wish that so-caalled 
education to consist of piling bushels of input on him, so he can sort them 
out with his unformed and untested mind.
Kids of University age are pretty much incapable of assessing whether what a 
professor is trying to teach them is precious or fool's gold.
They don't know enough...
If they are going to be expected to figure it out for themselves by trial and 
error, double the time in University to 8 years.

I expect, no demand, that any education I pay for is valid and of use, not 
some pap that must be discarded later because not only isn't it true, but it 
runs against logic and science. Junk...
I want that decision made ahead of time, so as to maximize the 4 years he has 
to spend. Even one class that's junk science (or junk anything) is one too 
many. By the time the student gains enough knowledge on his own to ferret out 
who's a charlatan, he's wasted a lot of precious time.

>  There are many "experts" in the world that can make any position sound
> well defended and reasonable and have millions believe them.  Just look
> at the middle east.
> 
> Somebody has to publically debunk this guy in a way that the students
> can learn from.  If no one can do it or if no one simply does do it,
> well, that's where new governments and religions come from.

And we sure need more of those, don't we...

> Steven Desjardins

keith whaley

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Re: Talk about crap

[Aaron Reynolds]

On Jul 26, 2006, at 10:41 AM, graywolf wrote:

> Then you would not object to paying me to teach a course about 
> Perpetual
> Motion Engineering at the University of Toronto?

You should see what I'm already paying to have taught at U of T.  Sure, 
if you're an international expert in the field and don't mind smartass 
students tearing up your work.

A friend of mine was notorious for basically throwing five years of 
genetic research at U of T into disrepute because he showed that the 
fruitfly population in their lab was so inbred that it mutated at 
random and was no good for experiments, and that the results of any 
recent experiments were invalid.

-Aaron

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Re: Talk about crap

[John Forbes]

The real question is why they hired such a nincompoop in the first place.   
Having hired him, they should let him say what he likes.

John

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:28:39 +0100, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I agree Frank. But you have to draw a line somewhere. Academia has to be  
> a bit selective. An intelligent point of view should be at least a  
> prerequisite. There's a big difference between someone whose views don't  
> coincide with one's own and someone who is spouting utter nonsense.  
> Disparate views yes, but I'm not paying for nonsense.
>  -- Original message --
> From: "frank theriault" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> On 7/25/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > I will defend the guys right to get up on a soap box, or write on the
>> > Internet, but I do not think he should be given official sanction or  
>> tax
>> > payer dollars to do so. Are we required to support every crackpot who
>> > wishes to tell us about his hallucinations?
>>
>> It rankles me that people use the "not with my tax dollars" argument
>> to try to muzzle academics whose views don't coincide with theirs.
>>
>> I didn't realize that part of the deal with public funds going to
>> universities was to allow the public to set curriculum, or otherwise
>> tell profs what to say (or not to say).
>>
>> In fact, I thought that tax dollars going to post-secondary
>> institutions was all about recognizing that the particular values and
>> freedoms of academia were worth preserving and promoting, not so that
>> the government or the people could use that funding as a platform to
>> promote personal or popular agendas or censor unpopular thoughts.
>>
>> I guess I'm naive.
>>
>> cheers,
>> frank
>> --
>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
>



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