Re: point and shoot
Scott Loveless wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:52 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I'm the other person (so it's nice to know there are at least two of us, although it scares me that I'm in a group with you...). ;-) Who wouldn't be scared? I mean seriously, that's why I posted like a week and a half ago, whinging that I've never used more than 10% of the features of my dinosaur *istD! I just want something (with manual override, of course) that allows me to take individual photographs. I'll live with autofocus (but don't need it). I'll live with autoexposure (but don't need it). I have the same problem with mobile phones. I don't want to check my email, surf the web, download music/movies/ringtones, text, take pictures or wipe my butt with it. I want to talk to people on the phone. I want an address book and voice mail. That's about it. No one makes anything like that anymore, though. I have to accept the option of using a bunch of superfluous crap that I'll never ever use, and I can't help but think that the prices might be lower if it were otherwise. I don't need much more... I'm a curmudgeon at 33. that's why I like you so much :-) at least my curmudgeonness is age appropriate. ditto ditto ditto to all you said above AND --- home electronics which have teeny tiny control buttons that are black on a black surface to make sure you can't see what you are doing. ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 11:10:37AM -0400, ann sanfedele wrote: home electronics which have teeny tiny control buttons that are black on a black surface to make sure you can't see what you are doing. That's what you get when you have Hotblack Desiatto design home electronics for you. -- The fastest way to get your question answered on the net is to post the wrong answer. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
In a message dated 4/2/2009 8:10:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ann...@nyc.rr.com writes: AND --- home electronics which have teeny tiny control buttons that are black on a black surface to make sure you can't see what you are doing. ann Yes. This has annoyed me for years. They don't plan on anyone not having 20/20 vision using them. Really poor design. Marnie aka Doe - Warning: I am now filtering my email, so you may be censored. **Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare0003) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:10 , eactiv...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/2/2009 8:10:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ann...@nyc.rr.com writes: AND --- home electronics which have teeny tiny control buttons that are black on a black surface to make sure you can't see what you are doing. ann Yes. This has annoyed me for years. They don't plan on anyone not having 20/20 vision using them. Really poor design. Marnie aka Doe Readers. $20 for 3 pair at Costco. Leave a pair by the audio system, a pair in the kitchen, a pair by the computer. Go all out and get 6 pair for $40. A pair for reading in the bathroom, a pair for looking at the remote buttons while in bed (or reading) and a pair in the car. Problem solved. If it doesn’t excite you, This thing that you see, Why in the world, Would it excite me? —Jay Maisel Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
In a message dated 4/2/2009 11:06:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pentax...@mac.com writes: On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:10 , eactiv...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/2/2009 8:10:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ann...@nyc.rr.com writes: AND --- home electronics which have teeny tiny control buttons that are black on a black surface to make sure you can't see what you are doing. ann Yes. This has annoyed me for years. They don't plan on anyone not having 20/20 vision using them. Really poor design. Marnie aka Doe Readers. $20 for 3 pair at Costco. Leave a pair by the audio system, a pair in the kitchen, a pair by the computer. Go all out and get 6 pair for $40. A pair for reading in the bathroom, a pair for looking at the remote buttons while in bed (or reading) and a pair in the car. Problem solved. I have them (Dr. Dean Edell, though, not Costco). But, you know it's annoying to have put them on for more than just reading. Like almost all the time. They still could design things better. But don't get me started. Like vacuums, changing the belt was designed by men, not by women (who actually use vacuums most)... and... Heh. Marnie aka Doe :-) - Warning: I am now filtering my email, so you may be censored. **Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare0003) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
touche On Apr 1, 2009, at 12:49 AM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: Re: point and shoot How strange. Did I really need a smiley? Paul Did I? ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:54:16PM +0100, mike wilson wrote: Larry Colen wrote: Writing software is a development cost not a production cost. NRE, Non-Recurring Expense. All I believe about Adobe is true then? What do you believe about Adobe? They seem to treat their employees well, a friend got laid off, but got an amazing severance package. They also let employees buy a finite number of copies of their software at about 10% of list (lightroom for $25, photoshop for $40, the big developer suite for $120). Let me put it this way; those prices sound about right - maybe slightly high. Anything I said further on the subject would just be interpreted as violently abusive. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 03:04:03AM -0400, John Francis wrote: How many copies? Have you still got friends there? Only two copies of the big suites, I don't know how many of the smaller ones. I've only got one friend there at the moment, and having just bought some stuff through him I don't want to be too pushy. Even if you don't have friends there, I bet your wife knows a bunch of people there through the museum. -- The fastest way to get your question answered on the net is to post the wrong answer. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
2009/4/1 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com: Actually, I think Canon cameras are ok. It's the Canon users that give me a pain. MARK! -- MaritimTim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 06:56:43PM -0700, Larry Colen wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:54:16PM +0100, mike wilson wrote: Larry Colen wrote: Writing software is a development cost not a production cost. NRE, Non-Recurring Expense. All I believe about Adobe is true then? What do you believe about Adobe? They seem to treat their employees well, a friend got laid off, but got an amazing severance package. They also let employees buy a finite number of copies of their software at about 10% of list (lightroom for $25, photoshop for $40, the big developer suite for $120). How many copies? Have you still got friends there? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Some one is going to be very grumpy at GFM this year, me thinks. Dave On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:52 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I'm the other person (so it's nice to know there are at least two of us, although it scares me that I'm in a group with you...). ;-) Who wouldn't be scared? I mean seriously, that's why I posted like a week and a half ago, whinging that I've never used more than 10% of the features of my dinosaur *istD! I just want something (with manual override, of course) that allows me to take individual photographs. I'll live with autofocus (but don't need it). I'll live with autoexposure (but don't need it). I have the same problem with mobile phones. I don't want to check my email, surf the web, download music/movies/ringtones, text, take pictures or wipe my butt with it. I want to talk to people on the phone. I want an address book and voice mail. That's about it. No one makes anything like that anymore, though. I have to accept the option of using a bunch of superfluous crap that I'll never ever use, and I can't help but think that the prices might be lower if it were otherwise. I don't need much more... I'm a curmudgeon at 33. -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
I use the vf on my G3 sometimes, mostly if its to bright to see the lcd screen. I hate seeing the len stuck out in the finder, it just makes it a tad harder to compose. Much like Nurvana Dave -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 01:23:24PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Mark Roberts msrobert...@ysu.edu wrote: The Sigma DP2 has a 24mm f/2.8 prime (roughly the angle of view of 50mm on FF) and you can get an accessory optical viewfinder. The camera is about $650.00, though. Not available yet, but should be very soon. Amazon is accepting pre-orders: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001W3429E?ie=UTF8tag=cmrmrs-20linkCode=as2camp=1789creative=390957creativeASIN=B001W3429E It sure looks nice, but it falls well outside my inexpensive requirement. I basically want the digital equivalent of a Canonet. It doesn't appear to exist. And if it did it would probably cost at least as much as the DP2. Grr. This really sucks. I just want something simple that I can pull up to my eye and then throw the photos out on the web when I get home. But all I see is chimp-approved plastic junk with smile recognition. WTF happened to cameras? Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Each one of them is useful to somebody that might not buy the camera if it didn't have it. -- The fastest way to get your question answered on the net is to post the wrong answer. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Original Message - From: Larry Colen Subject: Re: point and shoot This really sucks. I just want something simple that I can pull up to my eye and then throw the photos out on the web when I get home. But all I see is chimp-approved plastic junk with smile recognition. WTF happened to cameras? Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Software writers work for free? No wonder I hammer nails for a living. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:10:27AM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Larry Colen Subject: Re: point and shoot Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Software writers work for free? A lot do. A lot of software is being written for reasons other than financial motivation. For example a Finnish college kid named Linus Torvalds wrote the basis of an operating system for the fun of it. The upside of this is there is a lot of software available for free, the downside is that if you want to sell your software, it's tough to compete on price with free. No wonder I hammer nails for a living. That industry's been hit even harder than the software industry these days. Writing software is a development cost not a production cost. NRE, Non-Recurring Expense. -- The fastest way to get your question answered on the net is to post the wrong answer. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: A lot do. A lot of software is being written for reasons other than financial motivation. For example a Finnish college kid named Linus Torvalds wrote the basis of an operating system for the fun of it. The upside of this is there is a lot of software available for free, the downside is that if you want to sell your software, it's tough to compete on price with free. snip I can't imagine that many cameras have features being powered by freeware. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Original Message - From: frank theriault Subject: Re: point and shoot I can't imagine that many cameras have features being powered by freeware. I expect that pretty much every new camera has to have new software written for it, but I could be wrong. I don't know much about software writing. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:50 PM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: I expect that pretty much every new camera has to have new software written for it, but I could be wrong. I don't know much about software writing. That's kind of what I'd think too. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Larry, don't forget viruses - not only they're written for free, the critters face jail for their distribution. LF Larry Colen escreveu: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:10:27AM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Larry Colen Subject: Re: point and shoot Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Software writers work for free? A lot do. A lot of software is being written for reasons other than financial motivation. For example a Finnish college kid named Linus Torvalds wrote the basis of an operating system for the fun of it. The upside of this is there is a lot of software available for free, the downside is that if you want to sell your software, it's tough to compete on price with free. No wonder I hammer nails for a living. That industry's been hit even harder than the software industry these days. Writing software is a development cost not a production cost. NRE, Non-Recurring Expense. -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Original Message - From: Larry Colen Subject: Re: point and shoot Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Software writers work for free? A lot do. A lot of software is being written for reasons other than financial motivation. For example a Finnish college kid named Linus Torvalds wrote the basis of an operating system for the fun of it. The upside of this is there is a lot of software available for free, the downside is that if you want to sell your software, it's tough to compete on price with free. I think you are changing the subject to make a point. We are discussing the software built into cameras, not the fun and games that script kiddies like to play at. No wonder I hammer nails for a living. That industry's been hit even harder than the software industry these days. I guess it depends on where you live. I'm still living in boomtown. Writing software is a development cost not a production cost. NRE, Non-Recurring Expense. Until the next piece of hardware comes down the pike that needs new software written for it, or until a firmware improvement is needed, or until users start to report bugs and glitches that require a rewrite, anyway. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
William Robb wrote: From: Larry Colen Subject: Re: point and shoot This really sucks. I just want something simple that I can pull up to my eye and then throw the photos out on the web when I get home. But all I see is chimp-approved plastic junk with smile recognition. WTF happened to cameras? Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Software writers work for free? No wonder I hammer nails for a living. Well, they can re-use basically the same code on lots of different cameras, and when you work out the cost per camera it almost *is* free. What also wouldn't cost a lot more would be to have a feature which disabled all the other features so that we purists could also enjoy the camera. Perhaps some manufacturer will implement this someday... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: point and shoot What also wouldn't cost a lot more would be to have a feature which disabled all the other features so that we purists could also enjoy the camera. Perhaps some manufacturer will implement this someday... Didn't Canon do that already? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Mark Roberts msrobert...@ysu.edu wrote: snip What also wouldn't cost a lot more would be to have a feature which disabled all the other features so that we purists could also enjoy the camera. Perhaps some manufacturer will implement this someday... No! That's not pure enough! You're not looking at it from a purist's POV, Mark. The TRUE purist would look at that button as an enabling button, allowing one to turn ON the features at will. The true purist would see that as pandering and therefore unacceptable. The purist's camera could never have the features in the first place. Which is why it'll never be built. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Actually there is an opensource camera firmware. I am very tempt to give it a try: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ#Q._What_camera_models_are_supported_by_the_CHDK_program.3F Too bad they are all Canon Digicam. If I can get some cheap enough, I might try it out. -Pasvorn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:42 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: A lot do. A lot of software is being written for reasons other than financial motivation. For example a Finnish college kid named Linus Torvalds wrote the basis of an operating system for the fun of it. The upside of this is there is a lot of software available for free, the downside is that if you want to sell your software, it's tough to compete on price with free. snip I can't imagine that many cameras have features being powered by freeware. cheers, frank You might be surprised. A lot of core code in a lot of products is from Open Source software (it's not necessarily freeware as its free as in speech, not beer) -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 2:13 PM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Larry Colen Subject: Re: point and shoot Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Software writers work for free? A lot do. A lot of software is being written for reasons other than financial motivation. For example a Finnish college kid named Linus Torvalds wrote the basis of an operating system for the fun of it. The upside of this is there is a lot of software available for free, the downside is that if you want to sell your software, it's tough to compete on price with free. I think you are changing the subject to make a point. We are discussing the software built into cameras, not the fun and games that script kiddies like to play at. That little operating system that Linus wrote is the second most popular OS on the planet (Linux). The third (Mac OS X) also relies heavily on code written by people working for free (As it's based on BSD, which is also Open Source like Linux). Your camera firmware was almost assuredly written on a system running Open Source software and likely includes some as well. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: point and shoot That little operating system that Linus wrote is the second most popular OS on the planet (Linux). The third (Mac OS X) also relies heavily on code written by people working for free (As it's based on BSD, which is also Open Source like Linux). Your camera firmware was almost assuredly written on a system running Open Source software and likely includes some as well. Ok, so camera firmware is free. Got it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Larry Colen wrote: Writing software is a development cost not a production cost. NRE, Non-Recurring Expense. All I believe about Adobe is true then? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: point and shoot
No!
That's not pure enough!
You're not looking at it from a purist's POV, Mark.
The TRUE purist would look at that button as an enabling button,
allowing one to turn ON the features at will. The true purist would
see that as pandering and therefore unacceptable. The purist's camera
could never have the features in the first place.
Which is why it'll never be built.
it could be built without any great difficulty if it was designed with that
in mind.
It would be a matter of designing a suitably minimal framework with
scalability that people could use to add components ('plug-ins' I believe is
the modern term for such things), then providing a way for people to supply
the additional components.
It has been a solved problem since probably the invention of the subroutine,
certainly since Parnas wrote his famous paper about designing for ease of
extension and contraction. The trouble is, most software development
organisations (especially management, but including developers) are
completely ignorant of the history of the subject and of the basic
principles of software design.
Hands up all the software developers on this list who have read the
aforementioned paper, and ever put the principles into practice?
Bob
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Re: point and shoot
Bob, That is an ancient paper. :) Of course, people do use these principles. -Pasvorn On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: It has been a solved problem since probably the invention of the subroutine, certainly since Parnas wrote his famous paper about designing for ease of extension and contraction. The trouble is, most software development organisations (especially management, but including developers) are completely ignorant of the history of the subject and of the basic principles of software design. Hands up all the software developers on this list who have read the aforementioned paper, and ever put the principles into practice? Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
In a message dated 3/31/2009 11:24:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, war...@gmail.com writes: Didn't Canon do that already? William Robb == Yes. I used to have the 300D (first digital rebel). It basically used 10D software with features disabled. Then a Russian hacker came up with patches you could upload to your camera that would enable disabled features -- like mirror lock up. Not all things could be enabled (not all features were supported in the Rebel), but a surprising number could. Canon did not make that same mistake again. (I.E. The Rebel series got its own line of software after that. Pretty sure, anyway. I haven't heard about anyone being able to hack subsequent Rebels anyway.) I always meant to hack my camera, but never did. (One could save the original firmware, for reuploading if one were to sell it later. Also the original firmware was available on the Net.) Marnie aka Doe :-) - Warning: I am now filtering my email, so you may be censored. **Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare0003) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical or electronic devices. What could be more pure? Paul On Mar 31, 2009, at 2:25 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: point and shoot What also wouldn't cost a lot more would be to have a feature which disabled all the other features so that we purists could also enjoy the camera. Perhaps some manufacturer will implement this someday... Didn't Canon do that already? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical or electronic devices. What could be more pure? But alas, pencils and paintbrushes are mechanical devices (being levers, they're simple machnes). Indeed, paper, canvas, easels: they're all technology. I fear the purist can only view a scene and recount what he saw to anyone interested. I believe it's called storytelling. cheers, frank ;-) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Drawing with his own blood would be more pure... -- Bruce Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 2:22:07 PM, you wrote: PS Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would PS disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could PS then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical PS or electronic devices. What could be more pure? PS Paul PS On Mar 31, 2009, at 2:25 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: point and shoot What also wouldn't cost a lot more would be to have a feature which disabled all the other features so that we purists could also enjoy the camera. Perhaps some manufacturer will implement this someday... Didn't Canon do that already? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. PS -- PS PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PS PDML@pdml.net PS http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net PS to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 02:17:15PM -0400, Mark Roberts wrote: William Robb wrote: From: Larry Colen Subject: Re: point and shoot This really sucks. I just want something simple that I can pull up to my eye and then throw the photos out on the web when I get home. But all I see is chimp-approved plastic junk with smile recognition. WTF happened to cameras? Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? Most of those features are purely software, so don't add anything to production cost. Software writers work for free? No wonder I hammer nails for a living. Well, they can re-use basically the same code on lots of different cameras, and when you work out the cost per camera it almost *is* free. My point was that once you write the code it doesn't cost any more to put it in 1,000,000 cameras as it does to put it into 1. Likewise a lot of the code, as mentioned, can be reused across model lines. Only the hardware dependent firmware needs to be rewritten for new hardware. What also wouldn't cost a lot more would be to have a feature which disabled all the other features so that we purists could also enjoy the camera. Perhaps some manufacturer will implement this someday... There is a freeware package for hacking canon point and shoot firmware so that you can have exactly the feature set you want. http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK I'll spare you all my open source rant about how a struggling second tier (in sales) company could leverage an amazing amount of talent by opening up the firmware for their cameras. -- The fastest way to get your question answered on the net is to post the wrong answer. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical or electronic devices. What could be more pure? Paul Okay, I know we're all having fun at this point, which is all fine and good. Let's face it, we all need and love technology. However, there are times that technology gets in the way or at best is needless (and therefore a waste of money or costs us complexity and reliability). We all know that many features are there only for marketing purposes, not because it helps us take or make better photos. Technology is supposed to be ~our~ servant, but in some cases the tail wags the dog and we end up being technology's servant. Sometimes simpler really is better. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: point and shoot
I know it's ancient. That's my point. And very few people use those principles or have even heard of them, in my experience. Bob, That is an ancient paper. :) Of course, people do use these principles. -Pasvorn On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: It has been a solved problem since probably the invention of the subroutine, certainly since Parnas wrote his famous paper about designing for ease of extension and contraction. The trouble is, most software development organisations (especially management, but including developers) are completely ignorant of the history of the subject and of the basic principles of software design. Hands up all the software developers on this list who have read the aforementioned paper, and ever put the principles into practice? Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Bob W wrote: Hands up all the software developers on this list who have read the aforementioned paper, and ever put the principles into practice? Read the paper, but that was many years ago. Have used the concepts in nearly every piece of for release software I've ever worked on. As opposed to internal use stuff, like test harnesses, lots of which just isn't big enough to warrant that level of engineering ... over-engineered tools are one of the banes of my existence. :-) If I need a hammer, I don't generally need a monkey wrench, a ratchet, a scroll saw, and a screwdriver all in the same package. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: point and shoot
Hands up all the software developers on this list who have read the aforementioned paper, and ever put the principles into practice? Read the paper, but that was many years ago. Have used the concepts in nearly every piece of for release software I've ever worked on. As opposed to internal use stuff, like test harnesses, lots of which just isn't big enough to warrant that level of engineering ... over-engineered tools are one of the banes of my existence. :-) If I need a hammer, I don't generally need a monkey wrench, a ratchet, a scroll saw, and a screwdriver all in the same package. which is exactly what this thread, and Parnas's paper, are all about. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Bob, With all kidding aside, your observation is - unfortunately - true. Many folks cut corner for the sake of short-term gain. Sigh... On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: I know it's ancient. That's my point. And very few people use those principles or have even heard of them, in my experience. Bob, That is an ancient paper. :) Of course, people do use these principles. -Pasvorn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 05:34:49PM -0400, frank theriault scripsit: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical or electronic devices. What could be more pure? But alas, pencils and paintbrushes are mechanical devices (being levers, they're simple machnes). Indeed, paper, canvas, easels: they're all technology. I fear the purist can only view a scene and recount what he saw to anyone interested. I believe it's called storytelling. One can always gather rocks and grind them in mammoth fat from a mammoth you killed yourself to get pigments, chew alder shoots for brushes, and paint the pictures in a cave... Pretty sure the problem with the extremely simple digital camera is twofold; tiny market, and shrinking market. Fewer and fewer people know how to fully set a camera manually, and fewer want to have to do so. I'm starting to have a nodding acquaintance with most of the things I would need to worry about, but I'd really hate to have to do that each and every time, in large part because the picture quality would tank badly for a long time. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:58:59PM +0100, Bob W scripsit: Hands up all the software developers on this list who have read the aforementioned paper, and ever put the principles into practice? Well, both, but that's kinda cheating. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote:
It would be a matter of designing a suitably minimal framework with
scalability that people could use to add components ('plug-ins' I believe is
the modern term for such things), then providing a way for people to supply
the additional components.
I thought they called it 4/3.
--
Scott Loveless
Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/
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Re: point and shoot
On Mar 31, 2009, at 14:34 , frank theriault wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical or electronic devices. What could be more pure? But alas, pencils and paintbrushes are mechanical devices (being levers, they're simple machnes). Indeed, paper, canvas, easels: they're all technology. I fear the purist can only view a scene and recount what he saw to anyone interested. I believe it's called storytelling. cheers, frank That depends... A group must have developed a method of communication to be able to tell stories. It's what we do all the time with our photographs. Same concept - communication. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn’t need to lug a camera.” –Lewis Hine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist Subject: Re: point and shoot Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical or electronic devices. What could be more pure? Mr no gray areas in my world Stenquist. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
How strange. Did I really need a smiley? Paul - William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist Subject: Re: point and shoot Yes, relying on technology sucks completely. The true purist would disable all the features of his camera with a sledgehammer. He could then draw his pictures, unburdened by any assistance from mechanical or electronic devices. What could be more pure? Mr no gray areas in my world Stenquist. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:54:16PM +0100, mike wilson wrote: Larry Colen wrote: Writing software is a development cost not a production cost. NRE, Non-Recurring Expense. All I believe about Adobe is true then? What do you believe about Adobe? They seem to treat their employees well, a friend got laid off, but got an amazing severance package. They also let employees buy a finite number of copies of their software at about 10% of list (lightroom for $25, photoshop for $40, the big developer suite for $120). -- The fastest way to get your question answered on the net is to post the wrong answer. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Original Message - From: pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: Re: point and shoot How strange. Did I really need a smiley? Paul Did I? ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
From: Scott Loveless On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Jaume Lahuerta jlah...@yahoo.com wrote: The Canon A series used to be a great compromise between features and price...at a cost, that in this case was its size. I've been looking at the A series. I just have to bottle my conscience long enough to actually buy one. ;) Canon seems to be offering something I little closer to what I really want than anyone else right now. I'll keep digging. There are a lot of PS cameras out there. I've got a PowerShot A60 and my conscience doesn't bother me at all. ;-D Of course, it's only 2 megapixel and I got it for free, which goes a long way toward assuaging my conscience. Actually, I think Canon cameras are ok. It's the Canon users that give me a pain. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Scott Loveless wrote: I have the same problem with mobile phones. I don't want to check my email, surf the web, download music/movies/ringtones, text, take pictures or wipe my butt with it. I want to talk to people on the phone. I want an address book and voice mail. That's about it. No one makes anything like that anymore, though. I have to accept the option of using a bunch of superfluous crap that I'll never ever use, and I can't help but think that the prices might be lower if it were otherwise. Motorola does. I've got one. Model:W315 It could do text messaging ... maybe internet ringtones, but I told the cellphone company I didn't want any. No camera. Battery life isn't as good as my previous phones; about 24 hours max, and my old, old phone (that got stolen out of my car) would go for 2 - 3 days before it would die because I forgot to charge it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Frank, The CL is nice, but it is not exactly inexpensive, at least to me. :) May be Olympus Stylus Epic is a good choice for a film guy? -Pasvorn On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:07 AM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, Mr. Film Guy: http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/img/Reviews/045_Leica_CL/leicacl.jpg cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Scott. I bought my daughter the A540, i think it is, for xmas a while back, and it does a good job, and has a VF. My G3 has a VF, so maybe look into a G series. Dave On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there. The 750z I've been using the last few years for snapshots is just about shot. Besides losing the charger, I've also managed to break the articulating LCD again (Pentax fixed it under warranty the first time). So I'm shopping for an inexpensive pocket camera with an optical viewfinder and it looks like this sort of thing is damn near extinct. Anyone have any suggestions? -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Pasvorn Boonmark pasv...@boonmark.net wrote: Frank, The CL is nice, but it is not exactly inexpensive, at least to me. :) May be Olympus Stylus Epic is a good choice for a film guy? I was just jerkin' Scott's chain. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
...about to attacked... Scott, the Nikon D50 - I think that's the model - offers a compact with wide angle zoom and optical viewfinder, around $100. Optical finders are getting hard to find indeed... LF (well, if Pentax offered any I'd suggest it) Scott Loveless escreveu: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Jaume Lahuerta jlah...@yahoo.com wrote: The Canon A series used to be a great compromise between features and price...at a cost, that in this case was its size. I've been looking at the A series. I just have to bottle my conscience long enough to actually buy one. ;) Canon seems to be offering something I little closer to what I really want than anyone else right now. I'll keep digging. There are a lot of PS cameras out there. BTW, I read a very favourable review (5 stars) in the French Magazine CdI of the Pentax P70. It seems that the image quality is good and the camera is really small. The drawback is that t has SR based on software post processing, and this produces a lag between frames when shooting at full resolution. No optical VF I am afraid. No optical VF is a deal breaker, unfortunately. Didn't someone offer a small digital camera with a prime lens not too long ago? -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:49 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Pasvorn Boonmark pasv...@boonmark.net wrote: Frank, The CL is nice, but it is not exactly inexpensive, at least to me. :) May be Olympus Stylus Epic is a good choice for a film guy? I was just jerkin' Scott's chain. That's two. -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Jaume Lahuerta wrote: - Mensaje original De: Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com No optical VF is a deal breaker, unfortunately. Didn't someone offer a small digital camera with a prime lens not too long ago? This must be either Sigma DP1/DP2 or Ricoh GR Digital. Not sure about the Sigma, but at least the Ricoh had an external optical VF as an option. What they don't fulfill is the (low) cost requirement I am afraid... The Sigma DP2 has a 24mm f/2.8 prime (roughly the angle of view of 50mm on FF) and you can get an accessory optical viewfinder. The camera is about $650.00, though. Not available yet, but should be very soon. Amazon is accepting pre-orders: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001W3429E?ie=UTF8tag=cmrmrs-20linkCode=as2camp=1789creative=390957creativeASIN=B001W3429E I'm seriously considering one of these. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Mark Roberts msrobert...@ysu.edu wrote: The Sigma DP2 has a 24mm f/2.8 prime (roughly the angle of view of 50mm on FF) and you can get an accessory optical viewfinder. The camera is about $650.00, though. Not available yet, but should be very soon. Amazon is accepting pre-orders: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001W3429E?ie=UTF8tag=cmrmrs-20linkCode=as2camp=1789creative=390957creativeASIN=B001W3429E It sure looks nice, but it falls well outside my inexpensive requirement. I basically want the digital equivalent of a Canonet. It doesn't appear to exist. And if it did it would probably cost at least as much as the DP2. Grr. This really sucks. I just want something simple that I can pull up to my eye and then throw the photos out on the web when I get home. But all I see is chimp-approved plastic junk with smile recognition. WTF happened to cameras? Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: snip Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? Apparently you are... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Optical viewfinder yes, compact no. The D50 is an older Nikon DSLR. I suspect you're referring to the P50, which should be avoided. Nikon's PS production of the last few years start at bad and get rapidly worse. Optical finders are dying off. Mostly because PS finders are typically horrid. -Adam On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Luiz Felipe luiz.fel...@techmit.com.br wrote: ...about to attacked... Scott, the Nikon D50 - I think that's the model - offers a compact with wide angle zoom and optical viewfinder, around $100. Optical finders are getting hard to find indeed... LF (well, if Pentax offered any I'd suggest it) Scott Loveless escreveu: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Jaume Lahuerta jlah...@yahoo.com wrote: The Canon A series used to be a great compromise between features and price...at a cost, that in this case was its size. I've been looking at the A series. I just have to bottle my conscience long enough to actually buy one. ;) Canon seems to be offering something I little closer to what I really want than anyone else right now. I'll keep digging. There are a lot of PS cameras out there. BTW, I read a very favourable review (5 stars) in the French Magazine CdI of the Pentax P70. It seems that the image quality is good and the camera is really small. The drawback is that t has SR based on software post processing, and this produces a lag between frames when shooting at full resolution. No optical VF I am afraid. No optical VF is a deal breaker, unfortunately. Didn't someone offer a small digital camera with a prime lens not too long ago? -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:49 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Pasvorn Boonmark pasv...@boonmark.net wrote: Frank, The CL is nice, but it is not exactly inexpensive, at least to me. :) May be Olympus Stylus Epic is a good choice for a film guy? I was just jerkin' Scott's chain. That's two. -- Scott Loveless Canonet QL17 GIII -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:46 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: snip Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? Apparently you are... Okay, I'm the other person (so it's nice to know there are at least two of us, although it scares me that I'm in a group with you...). ;-) I mean seriously, that's why I posted like a week and a half ago, whinging that I've never used more than 10% of the features of my dinosaur *istD! I just want something (with manual override, of course) that allows me to take individual photographs. I'll live with autofocus (but don't need it). I'll live with autoexposure (but don't need it). I don't need much more... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca wrote: Optical viewfinder yes, compact no. The D50 is an older Nikon DSLR. I suspect you're referring to the P50, which should be avoided. Nikon's PS production of the last few years start at bad and get rapidly worse. Optical finders are dying off. Mostly because PS finders are typically horrid. Everyone uses optical viewfinders. PS makers put crappy viewfinders in their cameras. Everyone decides that using the stupid little screen is better than looking through a keyhole. PS makers stop making cameras with optical viewfinders because no one is using them. Go figure. -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
No potical VF and not pocketable, but 10x optical zoom, aperature and shutter priority, super macro and my real dinosaur Optio MX On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:46 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: snip Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? Apparently you are... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:52 PM, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I'm the other person (so it's nice to know there are at least two of us, although it scares me that I'm in a group with you...). ;-) Who wouldn't be scared? I mean seriously, that's why I posted like a week and a half ago, whinging that I've never used more than 10% of the features of my dinosaur *istD! I just want something (with manual override, of course) that allows me to take individual photographs. I'll live with autofocus (but don't need it). I'll live with autoexposure (but don't need it). I have the same problem with mobile phones. I don't want to check my email, surf the web, download music/movies/ringtones, text, take pictures or wipe my butt with it. I want to talk to people on the phone. I want an address book and voice mail. That's about it. No one makes anything like that anymore, though. I have to accept the option of using a bunch of superfluous crap that I'll never ever use, and I can't help but think that the prices might be lower if it were otherwise. I don't need much more... I'm a curmudgeon at 33. -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Scott Loveless wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Mark Roberts msrobert...@ysu.edu wrote: The Sigma DP2 has a 24mm f/2.8 prime (roughly the angle of view of 50mm on FF) and you can get an accessory optical viewfinder. The camera is about $650.00, though. Not available yet, but should be very soon. Amazon is accepting pre-orders: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001W3429E?ie=UTF8tag=cmrmrs-20linkCode=as2camp=1789creative=390957creativeASIN=B001W3429E It sure looks nice, but it falls well outside my inexpensive requirement. I basically want the digital equivalent of a Canonet. It doesn't appear to exist. And if it did it would probably cost at least as much as the DP2. Grr. This really sucks. I just want something simple that I can pull up to my eye and then throw the photos out on the web when I get home. But all I see is chimp-approved plastic junk with smile recognition. WTF happened to cameras? Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? No but you're the only person who thinks he can get it for less than $650 ;-) (KIDDING!) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca wrote: Optical viewfinder yes, compact no. The D50 is an older Nikon DSLR. I suspect you're referring to the P50, which should be avoided. Nikon's PS production of the last few years start at bad and get rapidly worse. Optical finders are dying off. Mostly because PS finders are typically horrid. Everyone uses optical viewfinders. PS makers put crappy viewfinders in their cameras. Everyone decides that using the stupid little screen is better than looking through a keyhole. PS makers stop making cameras with optical viewfinders because no one is using them. Go figure. Well, in their defence, the crappy viewfinders have been around since the 1980's. People just figured out with digital that the big LCD's beat the tiny optical finders they'd been stuck with. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: snip I'm a curmudgeon at 33. That's okay, you look 45... cheers, frank ;-) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Scott Loveless wrote: I have the same problem with mobile phones. I don't want to check my email, surf the web, download music/movies/ringtones, text, take pictures or wipe my butt with it. I want to talk to people on the phone. I want an address book and voice mail. That's about it. No one makes anything like that anymore, though. I have to accept the option of using a bunch of superfluous crap that I'll never ever use, and I can't help but think that the prices might be lower if it were otherwise. Hello, Graywolf -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Doug Brewer d...@alphoto.com wrote: Scott Loveless wrote: I have the same problem with mobile phones. I don't want to check my email, surf the web, download music/movies/ringtones, text, take pictures or wipe my butt with it. I want to talk to people on the phone. I want an address book and voice mail. That's about it. No one makes anything like that anymore, though. I have to accept the option of using a bunch of superfluous crap that I'll never ever use, and I can't help but think that the prices might be lower if it were otherwise. Hello, Graywolf LMAO! -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Nope. http://photo.net/photos/RickW --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: Am I the only person in the whole wide world that doesn't want a zillion worthless features at the expense of something functional? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
Well, P50 it is. Remember reading about it on PopPhoto. I wouldn't challenge your statement about avoiding it, but since the order is about some compact (not really, but still smaller than a DSLR) and not so expensive (one bill, $100) camera with an optic viewfinder, I tried to increase the number of options. LF Adam Maas escreveu: Optical viewfinder yes, compact no. The D50 is an older Nikon DSLR. I suspect you're referring to the P50, which should be avoided. Nikon's PS production of the last few years start at bad and get rapidly worse. Optical finders are dying off. Mostly because PS finders are typically horrid. -Adam On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Luiz Felipe luiz.fel...@techmit.com.br wrote: ...about to attacked... Scott, the Nikon D50 - I think that's the model - offers a compact with wide angle zoom and optical viewfinder, around $100. Optical finders are getting hard to find indeed... LF (well, if Pentax offered any I'd suggest it) Scott Loveless escreveu: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Jaume Lahuerta jlah...@yahoo.com wrote: The Canon A series used to be a great compromise between features and price...at a cost, that in this case was its size. I've been looking at the A series. I just have to bottle my conscience long enough to actually buy one. ;) Canon seems to be offering something I little closer to what I really want than anyone else right now. I'll keep digging. There are a lot of PS cameras out there. BTW, I read a very favourable review (5 stars) in the French Magazine CdI of the Pentax P70. It seems that the image quality is good and the camera is really small. The drawback is that t has SR based on software post processing, and this produces a lag between frames when shooting at full resolution. No optical VF I am afraid. No optical VF is a deal breaker, unfortunately. Didn't someone offer a small digital camera with a prime lens not too long ago? -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
The Canon A series used to be a great compromise between features and price...at a cost, that in this case was its size. The latest models are smaller that previous A models but have lost some of the manual controls that they used to have. The A1100 stilll has optical viewfinder though: http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/canon_powershot_a1100_is_review/ BTW, I read a very favourable review (5 stars) in the French Magazine CdI of the Pentax P70. It seems that the image quality is good and the camera is really small. The drawback is that t has SR based on software post processing, and this produces a lag between frames when shooting at full resolution. No optical VF I am afraid. Regards, Jaume - Mensaje original De: Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com Para: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Enviado: lunes, 30 de marzo, 2009 15:51:40 Asunto: point and shoot Hi there. The 750z I've been using the last few years for snapshots is just about shot. Besides losing the charger, I've also managed to break the articulating LCD again (Pentax fixed it under warranty the first time). So I'm shopping for an inexpensive pocket camera with an optical viewfinder and it looks like this sort of thing is damn near extinct. Anyone have any suggestions? -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Jaume Lahuerta jlah...@yahoo.com wrote: The Canon A series used to be a great compromise between features and price...at a cost, that in this case was its size. I've been looking at the A series. I just have to bottle my conscience long enough to actually buy one. ;) Canon seems to be offering something I little closer to what I really want than anyone else right now. I'll keep digging. There are a lot of PS cameras out there. BTW, I read a very favourable review (5 stars) in the French Magazine CdI of the Pentax P70. It seems that the image quality is good and the camera is really small. The drawback is that t has SR based on software post processing, and this produces a lag between frames when shooting at full resolution. No optical VF I am afraid. No optical VF is a deal breaker, unfortunately. Didn't someone offer a small digital camera with a prime lens not too long ago? -- Scott Loveless Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008 http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
- Mensaje original De: Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com No optical VF is a deal breaker, unfortunately. Didn't someone offer a small digital camera with a prime lens not too long ago? This must be either Sigma DP1/DP2 or Ricoh GR Digital. Not sure about the Sigma, but at least the Ricoh had an external optical VF as an option. What they don't fulfill is the (low) cost requirement I am afraid... Regards, Jaume -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: point and shoot
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there. The 750z I've been using the last few years for snapshots is just about shot. Besides losing the charger, I've also managed to break the articulating LCD again (Pentax fixed it under warranty the first time). So I'm shopping for an inexpensive pocket camera with an optical viewfinder and it looks like this sort of thing is damn near extinct. Anyone have any suggestions? Hey, Mr. Film Guy: http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/img/Reviews/045_Leica_CL/leicacl.jpg cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Point and Shoot
A fairly old Nikon OneTouch -- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Silicon Graphics, Inc. (650)933-82952011 N. Shoreline Blvd. MS 43U-991 (650)932-0828 (Fax) Mountain View, CA 94043-1389 Hello. My name is Darth Vader. I am your father. Prepare to die. This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org
Re: Point and Shoot
Just stay away from Pentax PC-330. I bought it for my sister, and the pics sucks. Even an old Kodak free focus given in a special offer from a minilab takes better pics. Albano. This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org
