Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
I think it means what it says, Shel. Mark and his colleagues at Pentax USA Customer Service have not yet received any specific information from Pentax about fw updates. That's all. Inferring anything else from it is just speculation. There may never be another fw update, but then again there might be. SDHC cards are just beginning to get into the marketplace in volume, so give them some months to get the new products out the door and then deliver anything for the old models. Godfrey On Aug 21, 2006, at 4:47 PM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > Hi gang - today I received a note about future firmware upgrades to > the > subject cameras. For those who care, here's the correspondence. > make of > it what you will - I get a sense that there will be no further > firmware > upgrades to these cameras even though that was not specifically > stated. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
I'd like to think there will be at least one more upgrade, and I wasn't really trying to read the future into Mark's comments ... it's more just a feeling I have. I sincerely hope you're correct, and that there will be some more upgrades, if for no other reason it may indicate how pentax will handle future models that have been replaced by newer ones. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Godfrey DiGiorgi > I think it means what it says, Shel. Mark and his colleagues at > Pentax USA Customer Service have not yet received any specific > information from Pentax about fw updates. That's all. Inferring > anything else from it is just speculation. There may never be another > fw update, but then again there might be. > > SDHC cards are just beginning to get into the marketplace in volume, > so give them some months to get the new products out the door and > then deliver anything for the old models. > > Godfrey > > > On Aug 21, 2006, at 4:47 PM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > > > Hi gang - today I received a note about future firmware upgrades to > > the > > subject cameras. For those who care, here's the correspondence. > > make of > > it what you will - I get a sense that there will be no further > > firmware > > upgrades to these cameras even though that was not specifically > > stated. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Shel wrote: I get a sense that there will be no further firmware upgrades to these cameras even though that was not specifically stated. - Maybe, maybe not. The only thing certain is that Pentax has already shown a lack of concern for customers investments in storage cards. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Storage cards are not an "investment." They are depreciable consumables. Investments are stocks, bonds, money market and savings accounts. Frankly, I think Pentax has shown concern for their customers by moving to SD cards, which allow the cameras to be smaller, and since SD cards are the (current) wave of the future, I see Pentax as looking forward. I see advances being made with SD cards and either limited or no further advances made with CF cards. There may be more choices available with SD cards (newegg.com lists 90 SD cards v only 45 CF cards). A quick look around shows more choices for faster (80X or greater speed cards) SD cards than there are with CF cards. And it seems that there are more bargains to be had with SD cards than with CF cards. Finally, any number of people on this list claim that SD cards are less prone to damage than CF cards - I can't speak to that issue. So, based on all of the above - even if only some issues apply to any one person, I'd say that Pentax made the wise choice to go with SD cards. Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF cards? Yes, I think I would. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Joseph Tainter > I get a sense that there will be no further firmware > upgrades to these cameras even though that was not specifically stated. > > - > > Maybe, maybe not. The only thing certain is that Pentax has already > shown a lack of concern for customers investments in storage cards. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards you wouldn't. You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider it disposable. For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should have put in a dual memory card slot. Dave On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF > cards? Yes, I think I would. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Correction: should read "(a 512MB, 1GB & 2GB in my case)" Dave On 8/22/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > you wouldn't. > > You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash > memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider > it disposable. > > For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should > have put in a dual memory card slot. > > Dave > > On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF > > cards? Yes, I think I would. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:18:37 +0100, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > you wouldn't. You're not logical. What you paid is totally irrelevant. What matters is how much you have to pay now to equip yourself with SD cards. And it's not much. John > You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash > memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider > it disposable. > > For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should > have put in a dual memory card slot. > > Dave > > On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF >> cards? Yes, I think I would. > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
LOL Yeah right. Dave On 8/22/06, John Forbes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:18:37 +0100, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > > you wouldn't. > > You're not logical. What you paid is totally irrelevant. What matters is > how much you have to pay now to equip yourself with SD cards. And it's > not much. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Investment? The price of storage cards is now so low that if they are typical of your "investments" you can look forward to a dismal old age. If this sort of attitude governed everything Pentax does, they'd be making Daguerrotypes. John On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:32:23 +0100, Joseph Tainter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Shel wrote: > > I get a sense that there will be no further firmware > upgrades to these cameras even though that was not specifically stated. > > - > > Maybe, maybe not. The only thing certain is that Pentax has already > shown a lack of concern for customers investments in storage cards. > > Joe > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
True. I have six CF cards, but I'm not the least concerned that the 10 doesn't use them. I think I paid $250 for my first 1 gig card and $59 for my last. I'll keep them for my D, which will be the backup body. I already have one SD card that I bought for my Panasonic P&S (a 1 gig), so I'll be ready to shoot the day the K10 comes out of the box. But I'm not going to buy any more SD cards until I have the new camera in my hands. They will undoubtedly continue to tumble in price. Paul On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:47 AM, John Forbes wrote: > Investment? The price of storage cards is now so low that if they are > typical of your "investments" you can look forward to a dismal old age. > > If this sort of attitude governed everything Pentax does, they'd be > making > Daguerrotypes. > > John > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:32:23 +0100, Joseph Tainter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Shel wrote: >> >> I get a sense that there will be no further firmware >> upgrades to these cameras even though that was not specifically >> stated. >> >> - >> >> Maybe, maybe not. The only thing certain is that Pentax has already >> shown a lack of concern for customers investments in storage cards. >> >> Joe >> > > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Aug 22, 2006, at 3:53, David Savage wrote: > LOL > > Yeah right. > > Dave > > On 8/22/06, John Forbes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:18:37 +0100, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>> Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF >>> cards >>> you wouldn't. >> >> You're not logical. What you paid is totally irrelevant. What >> matters is >> how much you have to pay now to equip yourself with SD cards. And >> it's >> not much. > Dave - While you're LOL'ing, I'm reading John's message and thinking "he's totally got it right!" -Charles -- Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Aug 22, 2006, at 12:32 AM, Joseph Tainter wrote: > Maybe, maybe not. The only thing certain is that Pentax has already > shown a lack of concern for customers investments in storage cards. NOT TO MENTION THEIR LACK OF CONCERN FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS WHO SHOOT A LOT OF FILM!!! I HAVE ALL THIS FILM AND MY NEW CAMERA DOESN'T TAKE FILM! 1) Pentax USA has absolutely no idea what Pentax Japan will do. Good example: they said Photolab 3 absolutely would not be a free upgrade, and suddenly it appeared on the Japanese web site as a free upgrade. 2) Joe, we all know that you are very, very upset that if you buy a new camera you may have to spend $30 to $50 on some new cards to go with it. You can give that one a rest now that we all know it, can't you? Face it, the cards are smaller and more robust and you don't have to worry about bending all those tiny pins in the camera. And they're cheap. So what's the problem? The old cards were expensive. And so what? They're not expensive now. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Aug 22, 2006, at 3:18 AM, David Savage wrote: > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > you wouldn't. David -- are those cards fast compared to what's out there currently, or would putting them into your new camera put you at a significant write speed disadvantage? Considering when you bought them, I'm going to have to guess that they're very slow compared to what's out there now in SD. So, to save $100 (the total cost of a fast 1GB card and a fast 2GB SD card if you don't shop around for the best price and get screwed on shipping) you would cripple your camera's write speed, effectively reducing the number of frames you could shoot in a row and how quickly you recover after shooting a burst. Why would you do that? Would you buy a $1200 film camera and insist on only putting Gold Max in it? > You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash > memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider > it disposable. > > For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should > have put in a dual memory card slot. Bad for two reasons: 1) makes the camera bigger 2) cheap users will constantly complain on the internet about how slow their very expensive new camera is. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
At 06:44 PM 22/08/2006, you wrote: >On Aug 22, 2006, at 3:18 AM, David Savage wrote: > > > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > > you wouldn't. > >David -- are those cards fast compared to what's out there currently, >or would putting them into your new camera put you at a significant >write speed disadvantage? Considering when you bought them, I'm going >to have to guess that they're very slow compared to what's out there >now in SD. All of them are Sandisk Ultra II's. Are the SD Ultra II's faster? >So, to save $100 (the total cost of a fast 1GB card and a fast 2GB SD >card if you don't shop around for the best price and get screwed on >shipping) you would cripple your camera's write speed, effectively >reducing the number of frames you could shoot in a row and how quickly >you recover after shooting a burst. Why would you do that? Would you >buy a $1200 film camera and insist on only putting Gold Max in it? Probably, because I'm illogical. > > For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should > > have put in a dual memory card slot. > >Bad for two reasons: > >1) makes the camera bigger >2) cheap users will constantly complain on the internet about how slow >their very expensive new camera is. > >-Aaron The camera (K10D) has already got bigger to fit the SR mechanism. I see your point guy's, it's just the Scottish blood in me that hates paying for stuff again and again. I guess I'm overruled in this matter so I'll just shut my yap. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
I've never shopped by "name", so I don't know what the write speed of an Ultra II translates to. -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subj: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 Date: Tue 2006 Aug 22 7:03 am Size: 1K To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List At 06:44 PM 22/08/2006, you wrote: >On Aug 22, 2006, at 3:18 AM, David Savage wrote: > > > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > > you wouldn't. > >David -- are those cards fast compared to what's out there currently, >or would putting them into your new camera put you at a significant >write speed disadvantage? Considering when you bought them, I'm going >to have to guess that they're very slow compared to what's out there >now in SD. All of them are Sandisk Ultra II's. Are the SD Ultra II's faster? >So, to save $100 (the total cost of a fast 1GB card and a fast 2GB SD >card if you don't shop around for the best price and get screwed on >shipping) you would cripple your camera's write speed, effectively >reducing the number of frames you could shoot in a row and how quickly >you recover after shooting a burst. Why would you do that? Would you >buy a $1200 film camera and insist on only putting Gold Max in it? Probably, because I'm illogical. > > For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should > > have put in a dual memory card slot. > >Bad for two reasons: > >1) makes the camera bigger >2) cheap users will constantly complain on the internet about how slow >their very expensive new camera is. > >-Aaron The camera (K10D) has already got bigger to fit the SR mechanism. I see your point guy's, it's just the Scottish blood in me that hates paying for stuff again and again. I guess I'm overruled in this matter so I'll just shut my yap. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:03 AM, David Savage wrote: > I see your point guy's, it's just the Scottish blood in me that hates > paying for stuff again and again. Did you ever buy film? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Yep! On 8/22/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:03 AM, David Savage wrote: > > > I see your point guy's, it's just the Scottish blood in me that hates > > paying for stuff again and again. > > Did you ever buy film? > > G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Joseph Tainter wrote: > Shel wrote: > > I get a sense that there will be no further firmware > upgrades to these cameras even though that was not specifically stated. > > - > > Maybe, maybe not. The only thing certain is that Pentax has already > shown a lack of concern for customers investments in storage cards. > > Joe > The market made your investment in cards worthless. Pentax is just taking advantage of the fact that cards cost next to nothing to move completely over to a (mostly) better technology. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
CF Ultra II's are quite fast, for last-generation cards. Not quite up to the current max speed. SD Ultra II's are indeed faster last I checked. But they're current 133x cards. -Adam Aaron Reynolds wrote: > I've never shopped by "name", so I don't know what the write speed of an > Ultra II translates to. > > -Aaron > > -- > http://aaronreynolds.ca > http://battersbox.ca > http://hardballtimes.com > > -Original Message----- > > From: David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subj: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 > Date: Tue 2006 Aug 22 7:03 am > Size: 1K > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > At 06:44 PM 22/08/2006, you wrote: > > >>On Aug 22, 2006, at 3:18 AM, David Savage wrote: >> >> >>>Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards >>>you wouldn't. >> >>David -- are those cards fast compared to what's out there currently, >>or would putting them into your new camera put you at a significant >>write speed disadvantage? Considering when you bought them, I'm going >>to have to guess that they're very slow compared to what's out there >>now in SD. > > > All of them are Sandisk Ultra II's. Are the SD Ultra II's faster? > > >>So, to save $100 (the total cost of a fast 1GB card and a fast 2GB SD >>card if you don't shop around for the best price and get screwed on >>shipping) you would cripple your camera's write speed, effectively >>reducing the number of frames you could shoot in a row and how quickly >>you recover after shooting a burst. Why would you do that? Would you >>buy a $1200 film camera and insist on only putting Gold Max in it? > > > Probably, because I'm illogical. > > >>>For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should >>>have put in a dual memory card slot. >> >>Bad for two reasons: >> >>1) makes the camera bigger >>2) cheap users will constantly complain on the internet about how slow >>their very expensive new camera is. >> >>-Aaron > > > The camera (K10D) has already got bigger to fit the SR mechanism. > > I see your point guy's, it's just the Scottish blood in me that hates > paying for stuff again and again. > > I guess I'm overruled in this matter so I'll just shut my yap. > > Dave > > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Indeed! I'm seeing even the new 4GB Transcend SDHC card drop in price even while a rebate is still in effect for them. The card's only been out about a month or so. An SD card I paid about $60.00 for a few months ago can now be purchased for $17.00 at the same source. Plus, you don't yet know how fast a card the new camera can use, so you don't want to get one that won't take advantage of the camera's capabilities. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Paul Stenquist > not going to buy any more SD cards until I have the new camera > in my hands. They will undoubtedly continue to tumble in price. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
The memory sticks for my Sony cost between $80.00 and $125.00 or so each when I got 'em, and I have six - 128mb each. While disappointed that I couldn't use them in a newer camera, I found no reason to complain. I got good use from them, even used them to xfer data from one computer to another for a while (still do, actually), and will eventually sell 'em for whatever I can get for them when I finally get around to selling the camera for which they're intended. They've served me well, but now it's time to move forward. I can understand that some people may be upset that their CF cards can't be used in the new cameras, but OTOH, everyone knew going into this DSLR thing that it involved developing and changing technology. Did you really thing that the media wouldn't change at some point? Did people complain when their old floppy disks were replaced by newer media? Or is that not the same thing? Using dual memory slots takes up space and, presumably, costs the consumer some $$ as well. I'd rather not pay for the space a CF card takes up. I do understand your point, though, but I think you may be in the minority (not to negate your POV or situation, though). Shel > [Original Message] > From: David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Date: 8/22/2006 12:18:47 AM > Subject: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 > > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > you wouldn't. > > You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash > memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider > it disposable. > > For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should > have put in a dual memory card slot. > > Dave > > On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF > > cards? Yes, I think I would. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Thanks Adam. Dave On 8/22/06, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CF Ultra II's are quite fast, for last-generation cards. Not quite up to > the current max speed. > > SD Ultra II's are indeed faster last I checked. But they're current 133x > cards. > > -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
In SD I think it's about 60X ... Shel > [Original Message] > From: Aaron Reynolds > I've never shopped by "name", so I don't know what the > write speed of an Ultra II translates to. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Hi Aaaron ... The numbers work out to considerably less than $100.00 if you make a wise purchase. How does $53.00 plus whatever shipping and taxes there may be for an 80X 1GB card and a 150X 2GB card. Good point about the speed of cards then and now - and for the future as well, I guess. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Aug 22, 2006, at 3:18 AM, David Savage wrote: > > > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) > > worth of CF cards you wouldn't. > > So, to save $100 (the total cost of a fast 1GB card and a fast 2GB SD > card if you don't shop around for the best price and get screwed on > shipping) you would cripple your camera's write speed, effectively > reducing the number of frames you could shoot in a row and how quickly > you recover after shooting a burst. Why would you do that? Would you > buy a $1200 film camera and insist on only putting Gold Max in it? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
- Original Message - From: "Shel Belinkoff" Subject: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 > > I can understand that some people may be upset that their CF cards > can't be > used in the new cameras, but OTOH, everyone knew going into this DSLR > thing > that it involved developing and changing technology. Did you really > thing > that the media wouldn't change at some point? Did people complain > when > their old floppy disks were replaced by newer media? Or is that not > the > same thing? I've got a whole bunch of Fujichrome RD100 in the deep freeze from the early 90s. I'm totally pissed that those buggers at Fujifilm made improvements so that my old film isn't as good as the newer stuff. Technology changes. Learn to live with it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
If Dave's like me, there are probably at least a few times he's sent a roll through the camera more than once. I've also heard that Dave's the "Double Exposure King" of Oz < interjecting humour Shel > [Original Message] > From: Godfrey DiGiorgi > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:03 AM, David Savage wrote: > > > I see your point guy's, it's just the Scottish blood in me > > that hates paying for stuff again and again. > > Did you ever buy film? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Cheeky Bugger. I've never double exposed a whole roll, but I have rewound a few mid way to change to something else. When I reloaded the original to finish it off I had a few overlapping frames. :-) Dave At 09:35 PM 22/08/2006, you wrote: > If Dave's like me, there are probably at least a few times he's sent >a roll through the camera more than once. I've also heard that Dave's the >"Double Exposure King" of Oz < interjecting humour > >Shel > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Godfrey DiGiorgi > > > > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:03 AM, David Savage wrote: > > > > > I see your point guy's, it's just the Scottish blood in me > > > that hates paying for stuff again and again. > > > > Did you ever buy film? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Aug 22, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > The numbers work out to considerably less than $100.00 if you make a > wise > purchase. I know -- I was trying to put together a reasonable worst-case. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Just to satisfy my curiosity I checked 6 local online stores to see what it would cost to swap my current Sandisk Ultra II CF capacity (3.512GB) to the SD equivalent. Assuming prices are up to date, the average works out to: AU$257 (~US$195) Which isn't too bad considering that's about what my 2GB card cost. At least I now know approx. how much to add to the cost of the K10D when it's released ;-) Dave On 8/22/06, Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > > > The numbers work out to considerably less than $100.00 if you make a > > wise > > purchase. > > I know -- I was trying to put together a reasonable worst-case. > > -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Aug 22, 2006, at 9:18, David Savage wrote: > Just to satisfy my curiosity I checked 6 local online stores to see > what it would cost to swap my current Sandisk Ultra II CF capacity > (3.512GB) to the SD equivalent. > > Assuming prices are up to date, the average works out to: AU$257 > (~US$195) > Yikes. Here in Minneapolis (US) a local store was selling 80x 1gig SD cards for $21 apiece! Sounds like everything is WAY more expensive in Australia - sorry. :-( -Charles -- Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Sheesh, David, that's outrageous. Maybe you can get someone to purchase the cards here in the US for you. Two 80X 1GB cards will cost US$36.00 or so plus shipping and tax (probably not more than an additional US$8.00 +/- A 150X 2GB card will cost about the same. Shel > [Original Message] > From: David Savage > Just to satisfy my curiosity I checked 6 local online stores to see > what it would cost to swap my current Sandisk Ultra II CF capacity > (3.512GB) to the SD equivalent. > > Assuming prices are up to date, the average works out to: > AU$257 (~US$195) > > Which isn't too bad considering that's about what my 2GB card cost. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
On Aug 22, 2006, at 10:18 AM, David Savage wrote: > Assuming prices are up to date, the average works out to: AU$257 > (~US$195) Well, it sucks to be in Australia. Maybe your CF cards have held their value, then, eh? Three fast Gb plus a slow 1Gb card for my Palm cost me about $100 total, and some of those cards I bought before the most recent price drop -- I paid more for my fast 1Gb card than I did for my fast 2Gb card, only a few months apart. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Now you see my point ;-) Dave On 8/22/06, Charles Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Aug 22, 2006, at 9:18, David Savage wrote: > > Assuming prices are up to date, the average works out to: AU$257 > > (~US$195) > > Yikes. Here in Minneapolis (US) a local store was selling 80x 1gig > SD cards for $21 apiece! Sounds like everything is WAY more > expensive in Australia - sorry. :-( > > -Charles -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Actually some did complain when floppy disks changed from 5 1/4 to 3 1/2. Some programs were supplied on copy protected 5 1/4 inch media, (mostly games I suppose), that were no longer available in the new format. Floppy disks were consumables however, with a limited lifetime. I expect that usable CF cards will be around long after there's nothing to read them with. Shel Belinkoff wrote: >The memory sticks for my Sony cost between $80.00 and $125.00 or so each >when I got 'em, and I have six - 128mb each. While disappointed that I >couldn't use them in a newer camera, I found no reason to complain. I got >good use from them, even used them to xfer data from one computer to >another for a while (still do, actually), and will eventually sell 'em for >whatever I can get for them when I finally get around to selling the camera >for which they're intended. They've served me well, but now it's time to >move forward. > >I can understand that some people may be upset that their CF cards can't be >used in the new cameras, but OTOH, everyone knew going into this DSLR thing >that it involved developing and changing technology. Did you really thing >that the media wouldn't change at some point? Did people complain when >their old floppy disks were replaced by newer media? Or is that not the >same thing? > >Using dual memory slots takes up space and, presumably, costs the consumer >some $$ as well. I'd rather not pay for the space a CF card takes up. I >do understand your point, though, but I think you may be in the minority >(not to negate your POV or situation, though). > >Shel > > > > > >>[Original Message] >>From: David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Date: 8/22/2006 12:18:47 AM >>Subject: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 >> >>Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards >>you wouldn't. >> >>You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash >>memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider >>it disposable. >> >>For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should >>have put in a dual memory card slot. >> >>Dave >> >>On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>>Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF >>>cards? Yes, I think I would. >>> >>> > > > > > -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Import them. John On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:42:07 +0100, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now you see my point ;-) > > Dave > > On 8/22/06, Charles Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Aug 22, 2006, at 9:18, David Savage wrote: >> > Assuming prices are up to date, the average works out to: AU$257 >> > (~US$195) >> >> Yikes. Here in Minneapolis (US) a local store was selling 80x 1gig >> SD cards for $21 apiece! Sounds like everything is WAY more >> expensive in Australia - sorry. :-( >> >> -Charles > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Flash memory degrades over time as it has a limited write cycle, just like floppy disks (Although the lifetime is longer). They're consumables. -Adam P. J. Alling wrote: > Actually some did complain when floppy disks changed from 5 1/4 to 3 > 1/2. Some programs were supplied on copy protected 5 1/4 inch media, > (mostly games I suppose), that were no longer available in the new > format. Floppy disks were consumables however, with a limited > lifetime. I expect that usable CF cards will be around long after > there's nothing to read them with. > > Shel Belinkoff wrote: > > >>The memory sticks for my Sony cost between $80.00 and $125.00 or so each >>when I got 'em, and I have six - 128mb each. While disappointed that I >>couldn't use them in a newer camera, I found no reason to complain. I got >>good use from them, even used them to xfer data from one computer to >>another for a while (still do, actually), and will eventually sell 'em for >>whatever I can get for them when I finally get around to selling the camera >>for which they're intended. They've served me well, but now it's time to >>move forward. >> >>I can understand that some people may be upset that their CF cards can't be >>used in the new cameras, but OTOH, everyone knew going into this DSLR thing >>that it involved developing and changing technology. Did you really thing >>that the media wouldn't change at some point? Did people complain when >>their old floppy disks were replaced by newer media? Or is that not the >>same thing? >> >>Using dual memory slots takes up space and, presumably, costs the consumer >>some $$ as well. I'd rather not pay for the space a CF card takes up. I >>do understand your point, though, but I think you may be in the minority >>(not to negate your POV or situation, though). >> >>Shel >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>[Original Message] >>>From: David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>Date: 8/22/2006 12:18:47 AM >>>Subject: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 >>> >>>Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards >>>you wouldn't. >>> >>>You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash >>>memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider >>>it disposable. >>> >>>For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should >>>have put in a dual memory card slot. >>> >>>Dave >>> >>>On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF >>>>cards? Yes, I think I would. >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
I didn't say they weren't. However the ANSI standard for Floppy disks retaining data, is about 6mos. I haven't bothered to look up the standard for CF type cards but I'll bet their lifespan is a bit longer, quite a bit longer probably. Adam Maas wrote: >Flash memory degrades over time as it has a limited write cycle, just >like floppy disks (Although the lifetime is longer). > >They're consumables. > >-Adam > > >P. J. Alling wrote: > > >>Actually some did complain when floppy disks changed from 5 1/4 to 3 >>1/2. Some programs were supplied on copy protected 5 1/4 inch media, >>(mostly games I suppose), that were no longer available in the new >>format. Floppy disks were consumables however, with a limited >>lifetime. I expect that usable CF cards will be around long after >>there's nothing to read them with. >> >>Shel Belinkoff wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>The memory sticks for my Sony cost between $80.00 and $125.00 or so each >>>when I got 'em, and I have six - 128mb each. While disappointed that I >>>couldn't use them in a newer camera, I found no reason to complain. I got >>>good use from them, even used them to xfer data from one computer to >>>another for a while (still do, actually), and will eventually sell 'em for >>>whatever I can get for them when I finally get around to selling the camera >>>for which they're intended. They've served me well, but now it's time to >>>move forward. >>> >>>I can understand that some people may be upset that their CF cards can't be >>>used in the new cameras, but OTOH, everyone knew going into this DSLR thing >>>that it involved developing and changing technology. Did you really thing >>>that the media wouldn't change at some point? Did people complain when >>>their old floppy disks were replaced by newer media? Or is that not the >>>same thing? >>> >>>Using dual memory slots takes up space and, presumably, costs the consumer >>>some $$ as well. I'd rather not pay for the space a CF card takes up. I >>>do understand your point, though, but I think you may be in the minority >>>(not to negate your POV or situation, though). >>> >>>Shel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>[Original Message] >>>>From: David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>Date: 8/22/2006 12:18:47 AM >>>>Subject: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 >>>> >>>>Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards >>>>you wouldn't. >>>> >>>>You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash >>>>memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider >>>>it disposable. >>>> >>>>For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should >>>>have put in a dual memory card slot. >>>> >>>>Dave >>>> >>>>On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF >>>>>cards? Yes, I think I would. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Why not? I've spent considerably more on CF cards (including almost $400 on 2 1GB Microdrives when I first bought my *ist-D). It's stupid to continue to value commodity memory at the price you paid for it - it's worth, at most, the cost of a replacement. Nowadays that seems to be somewhere around $20 per gigabyte. On Tue, Aug 22, 2006 at 03:18:37PM +0800, David Savage wrote: > Not if you'd bought $500+ (a 1GB & a 2GB in my case) worth of CF cards > you wouldn't. > > You have to remember Shel, when most people bought there *istD flash > memory wasn't as cheap as it is now. If it had been, I would consider > it disposable. > > For a camera maker know for backwards compatibility, IMO they should > have put in a dual memory card slot. > > Dave > > On 8/22/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Would I still feel as strongly about SD cards had I bought a bunch of CF > > cards? Yes, I think I would. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Yes, everyone knows that. What they don't seem to know is that limit is in the millions of cycles range. Hardly something for the ordinary consumer to worry about. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Adam Maas wrote: > Flash memory degrades over time as it has a limited write cycle, just > like floppy disks (Although the lifetime is longer). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
Yeah, I'm still P.O.'d that Sony moved away from 1MB floppies. I had all the free memory I needed thanks to AOL. :-) Tom C. "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered." From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:17:02 -0400 Yes, everyone knows that. What they don't seem to know is that limit is in the millions of cycles range. Hardly something for the ordinary consumer to worry about. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Adam Maas wrote: > Flash memory degrades over time as it has a limited write cycle, just > like floppy disks (Although the lifetime is longer). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 4 GB SD cards for istDS/DS2, istDL/DL2
graywolf wrote: > Yes, everyone knows that. What they don't seem to know is that limit is > in the millions of cycles range. Hardly something for the ordinary > consumer to worry about. > The numbers I've seen are closer to 10,000 writes per cell than a million. Of course it's been a couple of years since I looked closely at flash chip specs (as opposed to the card specs, which rarely include write cycles) so specs may have increased by then. I'd expect 10,000 writes per cell to be exceeded in 5-10 years. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
