Re: Alternatives to vuescan
On Feb 26, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Alan Chan wrote: I am afraid there is a bad news. Vuescan is known to have streaks when using Minolta scanners. I thought it could calibrate around that sort of thing (much like the Minolta software does). I downloaded the trial version for use with my Multi Pro but the trouble is, the trial version doesn't have all of the features - so I can't properly evaluate it without actually buying the pro version for US$90. Cheers, - Dave http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
From: Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am afraid there is a bad news. Vuescan is known to have streaks when using Minolta scanners. My Minolte Elite has the same issue as well, particular with the blue channel. What I have found is that the mirror inside the scanner has some spots which the software should take care of, but Vuescan doesn't. The streaks can be fixed with Single Row Marquee Tool in PS but time consuming. Another software I am aware is SilverFast, but I think they support Scan Dual III IV only. No streaks with vuescan and my Scan Dual II. Nor any that I have heard about from others either. What is the source of this information? Rob. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/2005
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- David Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought it could calibrate around that sort of thing (much like the Minolta software does). I downloaded the trial version for use with my Multi Pro but the trouble is, the trial version doesn't have all of the features - so I can't properly evaluate it without actually buying the pro version for US$90. Vuescan has the calibrate feature, but doesn't nothing to solve the streaking issue with any Minolta scanners. Even the person who invented this sw admit the problem exists, and w/o solution yet. If you search the newsgroup, you will see many Minolta users have experienced the same problem, if not all. = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
SilverFast does a good job too, but I prefer Vuescan's algorithms. And Vuescan is cheaper, can handle a ton of different scanners if you decide to move to a different scanner at some point. I use it to drive both a Minolta SDII and an Epson 2450. I had a look at Silverfast but didn't like the one scanner option although ultimately I suppose it could be more accurate, I'd also like to add an old Umax Astra 1220S flatbed to the SCSI chain for the odd print scan. 48bit TIFF (with LZW compression if you want to save space) and the maximum optical resolution of the scanner are good (I am not sure of the optical resolution of the Scan Dual, I have a Scan Dual II and I know that's 2820ppi). I'm thinking of going without compression then writing everything to DVD+R or CDR at some point, although I have yet to select the blank media, Fuji, Traxdata? I believe the maximum resolution is 2438 dpi which results in max. 3504 x 2336 about 8.18 million pixel, not the best but it's free :) A couple of tips: - If you batch up your negs/slides into groups with similar characteristics, you can then batch scan with one set of settings more efficiently (up to strips of 6 negs or 4 slides with that scanner, I believe). Yes I was working on saving profiles for particular film types and loading them each time I switched film emulsion, I've yet to figure out if vuescan will batch scan unattended (without me manually feeding that is) The advantage to scanning and saving RAW files in Vuescan is that it will do much like a RAW format in a camera ... dump the scanner's raw data out to a file ... which can then be reprocessed many times with different rendering settings to get a better scan. Much better than re-scanning the originals many times, and a lot quicker. Of course, it costs more time and space to save RAW files. Whether its worth it to you only you can decide. (A lot of my negatives are archived digitally as a Vuescan RAW file, a 48bit TIFF-LZW file, and an index page per roll of film.) I really will have to dabble with RAW at some point, I could basically produce TIFF and RAW at one go with each negative plus the index page I suppose, why are the RAW files given a TIFF file extension is RAW not a format in it's own right? Scanning is a slow and tedious process, but I like having archive copies of my negatives and prints that I can replicate losslessly and manage electronically. It will pass the time at lunch where I work :) but needless to say it will be a long job, I just wanted some informed opinion from experienced users such as yourself before starting only to find I'd gone down the wrong road :) Many thanks for the info and tips. Best regards, John
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
Thanks Alan I've not noticed any streaks yet but I've only scanned around 20 negs, one particularly old negative did produce what I presumed was a scratch. If there are spots on the mirror I would assume the streaks would be horizontal across the scan? If this is the case then I think it was a scratch caused through bad darkroomn practice on my behalf. You're correct in saying the original Scan Dual does not seem to be supported in Silverfast which is a shame it would be nice to try an alternative. Best regards, John -- Original Message --- From: Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:51:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Alternatives to vuescan --- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm about to digitally archive my negs and slides from the past 25+ years. I've got the use (long term) of a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual and a late version of Vuescan, I'm familiar with the interface and I've been experimenting with the options available. Currently scanning at 48 bit TIFF, max resolution (8+mp) are there any alternatives available (software wise)? Would I be better scanning RAW? Any advice much appreciated before I start the job :) I am afraid there is a bad news. Vuescan is known to have streaks when using Minolta scanners. My Minolte Elite has the same issue as well, particular with the blue channel. What I have found is that the mirror inside the scanner has some spots which the software should take care of, but Vuescan doesn't. The streaks can be fixed with Single Row Marquee Tool in PS but time consuming. Another software I am aware is SilverFast, but I think they support Scan Dual III IV only. http://www.silverfast.com/pricing/en.html http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=enlr=ie=UTF- 8group=comp.periphs.scanners = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --- End of Original Message ---
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
That's very reassuring to know, thanks Bruce. John -- Original Message --- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Chan pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:57:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Alternatives to vuescan I've got over 5,000 scans on my Scan Dual II, so my mirror must not have the problem. -- Best regards, Bruce Friday, February 25, 2005, 6:46:10 PM, you wrote: AC --- Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been using Vuescan and a Minolta Scan Dual II since Fall of 2000, have scanned perhaps 2000 or more negatives with it, and have never seen a streak. Where did you hear of this? And how would the scanning software know how to compensate for what sounds like a defect in your scanner hardware? AC I first noticed this problem when one of my 8x12 print had a long yellow line. Then AC I searched (streaking + minolta) for answer on AC comp.periphs.scanners and found it AC was a Minolta issue with Vuescan. Since Minolta software doesn't have such issue, AC and Vuescan doesn't use Minolta SDK like SilverFast does, quite possible Minolta use AC the software to mask the hardware flaw on the mirror. I have switched the mirror AC upside down and ran some tests. My conclusion is that the mirror is the source of AC problem. Since not all scanners have spots on the mirrors, some Minolta scanners AC might be perfectly fine with Vuescan, while some don't. AC http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=enlr=ie=UTF- 8group=comp.periphs.scanners AC = AC Alan Chan AC http://www.pbase.com/wlachan AC __ AC Do you Yahoo!? AC Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. AC http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo --- End of Original Message ---
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
I suspect something else could be the problem. When I first got the Scan Dual II, I ran the MInolta software. I wasn't satisfied with it, it both tended to crash frequently and my scans weren't particularly sharp. I'm finding the results with Vuescan much better than the supplied software with much better facilities for fine adjustment, colour rendering appears to be significantly better also. John
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there are spots on the mirror I would assume the streaks would be horizontal across the scan? Yes, and it can be fixed with the Single Row Marquee Tool in Photoshop, before the image was rotated in anyway. = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm finding the results with Vuescan much better than the supplied software with much better facilities for fine adjustment, colour rendering appears to be significantly better also. Indeed, especially for colour negatives. = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
Thanks Alan, I'll be keeping an eye open for any streaking. John -- Original Message --- From: Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:30:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Alternatives to vuescan --- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there are spots on the mirror I would assume the streaks would be horizontal across the scan? Yes, and it can be fixed with the Single Row Marquee Tool in Photoshop, before the image was rotated in anyway. = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 --- End of Original Message ---
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
Indeed, especially for colour negatives. I've not got to slides yet, I guess that will be the real test, greater dynamic range required from the hardware. John
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
I am afraid there is a bad news. Vuescan is known to have streaks when using Minolta scanners. Did you experiment with the infrared cleaning filter? John
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the maximum resolution is 2438 dpi which results in max. 3504 x 2336 about 8.18 million pixel, not the best but it's free :) Hmm. My calculator spreadsheet says that a 24x35mm frame scanned at 2438ppi nets an image 2304x3455 pixels in size, or 7.6 Mpixel. Something's off by a little bit somewhere... ;-) I really will have to dabble with RAW at some point, I could basically produce TIFF and RAW at one go with each negative plus the index page I suppose, why are the RAW files given a TIFF file extension is RAW not a format in it's own right? RAW is really the name of a format type, a RAW file means a different thing for every device that can create it. Viewscan simply encode the metadata and sensor data into a very simple TIFF format. If you analyze a Pentax .PEF file, it also is essentially a TIFF file with embedded metadata, a couple of JPEG low rez renders, and the sensor data in a tagged structure. Godfrey __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
Hmm. My calculator spreadsheet says that a 24x35mm frame scanned at 2438ppi nets an image 2304x3455 pixels in size, or 7.6 Mpixel. Something's off by a little bit somewhere... ;-) Never calculated it just reading from the manual, shouldn't that be 24mm x 36mm ? RAW is really the name of a format type, a RAW file means a different thing for every device that can create it. Viewscan simply encode the metadata and sensor data into a very simple TIFF format. If you analyze a Pentax .PEF file, it also is essentially a TIFF file with embedded metadata, a couple of JPEG low rez renders, and the sensor data in a tagged structure. Right, so a raw file might have any file extension (propriety) depending on the device that created it. When looking at the files yesterday at work it was just (obviously) an exact scan of the negative (when viewed with Photoshop CS) no rotation or anything. I tried inverting to give me a positive and that gave me an image that would require a lot of editing, I'm missing something...yes? John
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm. My calculator spreadsheet says that a 24x35mm frame scanned at 2438ppi nets an image 2304x3455 pixels in size, or 7.6 Mpixel. Something's off by a little bit somewhere... ;-) Never calculated it just reading from the manual, shouldn't that be 24mm x 36mm ? Typo on my part, the spreadsheet is correct. If you got the numbers from the scanner specification sheet, that's more accurate as the scanner's maximum scannable area is likely not exactly 24x36mm. RAW is really the name of a format type, a RAW file means a different thing for every device that can create it. Vuescan simply encode the metadata and sensor data into a very simple TIFF format. If you analyze a Pentax .PEF file, it also is essentially a TIFF file with embedded metadata, a couple of JPEG low rez renders, and the sensor data in a tagged structure. Right, so a raw file might have any file extension (propriety) depending on the device that created it. When looking at the files yesterday at work it was just (obviously) an exact scan of the negative (when viewed with Photoshop CS) no rotation or anything. I tried inverting to give me a positive and that gave me an image that would require a lot of editing, I'm missing something...yes? Vuescan's RAW has minimal metadata (he generates the processing parameters by analyzing the scan data on the fly) and the sensor data is basically just a row x column matrix of RGB pixel data with linear gamma, that's typically what scanners produce as straight output. Processing RAW output from BW negative scans means doing the inversion required and then adding the gamma curve conversion to what our eyes like to see... relatively simple to do. Processing RAW output from color positives is somewhat trickier as color positives have a higher gamma than negatives to begin with. Processing color negatives to RGB positives ... well, you have to invert it, remove the crossover mask per the particular film's profile, then gamma correct it. I'll let Vuescan do that for me. ;-) Godfrey __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
Processing color negatives to RGB positives ... well, you have to invert it, remove the crossover mask per the particular film's profile, then gamma correct it. I'll let Vuescan do that for me. ;-) Yes me too, I'm more than pleased with the 48 bit TIFFs I'm getting, just a little more fine tuning and I'm away :) I'll save the RAW flies as well for possible future use, storage really isn't a problem these days. Best regards, John
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've not got to slides yet, I guess that will be the real test, greater dynamic range required from the hardware. I have found the Minolta software produces better results for slides than Vuescan, while Vuescan does a lot better for negatives (colour or BW). But I have never got any IT8 to calibrate the Vuescan so maybe I am missing something. However, for my scanner (oldest Elite), if the slides look a little dark, the scans will be too dark and useless. That's one reason I am not too keen on shooting slides. Perhaps the latest scanners (Nikon 5000 Minolta 5400) will do better? Too bad Vuescan doesn't solve the streaking issue or I will buy the 5400. = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you experiment with the infrared cleaning filter? If you mean ICE, then yes. The scratch removal feature of Vuescan has no impact to the streaking problem. = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm about to digitally archive my negs and slides from the past 25+ years. I've got the use (long term) of a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual and a late version of Vuescan, I'm familiar with the interface and I've been experimenting with the options available. Currently scanning at 48 bit TIFF, max resolution (8+mp) are there any alternatives available (software wise)? Would I be better scanning RAW? Any advice much appreciated before I start the job :) SilverFast does a good job too, but I prefer Vuescan's algorithms. And Vuescan is cheaper, can handle a ton of different scanners if you decide to move to a different scanner at some point. I use it to drive both a Minolta SDII and an Epson 2450. 48bit TIFF (with LZW compression if you want to save space) and the maximum optical resolution of the scanner are good (I am not sure of the optical resolution of the Scan Dual, I have a Scan Dual II and I know that's 2820ppi). Practice with a few scans first to get a feel for using the controls on the Color tab to adjust white point, black point and brightness, get into the ballpark. Remember that the goal of scanning negatives or slides is to obtain as much GOOD data as possible in order to enables image processing afterwards. I never expect a scan to be perfect, it's just getting me the data I need to then edit and finish with Photoshop. A couple of tips: - If you batch up your negs/slides into groups with similar characteristics, you can then batch scan with one set of settings more efficiently (up to strips of 6 negs or 4 slides with that scanner, I believe). - If you want, you can tell Vuescan to save an index file along with the scans. This will generate a horribly big .BMP file with thumbnails in it, but you can open that with Photoshop and make it into a JPEG. The index pages can be printed and used as a proof sheet to help with filing the physical negatives. The advantage to scanning and saving RAW files in Vuescan is that it will do much like a RAW format in a camera ... dump the scanner's raw data out to a file ... which can then be reprocessed many times with different rendering settings to get a better scan. Much better than re-scanning the originals many times, and a lot quicker. Of course, it costs more time and space to save RAW files. Whether its worth it to you only you can decide. (A lot of my negatives are archived digitally as a Vuescan RAW file, a 48bit TIFF-LZW file, and an index page per roll of film.) Scanning is a slow and tedious process, but I like having archive copies of my negatives and prints that I can replicate losslessly and manage electronically. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm about to digitally archive my negs and slides from the past 25+ years. I've got the use (long term) of a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual and a late version of Vuescan, I'm familiar with the interface and I've been experimenting with the options available. Currently scanning at 48 bit TIFF, max resolution (8+mp) are there any alternatives available (software wise)? Would I be better scanning RAW? Any advice much appreciated before I start the job :) I am afraid there is a bad news. Vuescan is known to have streaks when using Minolta scanners. My Minolte Elite has the same issue as well, particular with the blue channel. What I have found is that the mirror inside the scanner has some spots which the software should take care of, but Vuescan doesn't. The streaks can be fixed with Single Row Marquee Tool in PS but time consuming. Another software I am aware is SilverFast, but I think they support Scan Dual III IV only. http://www.silverfast.com/pricing/en.html http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8group=comp.periphs.scanners = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
Alan, I have been using Vuescan and a Minolta Scan Dual II since Fall of 2000, have scanned perhaps 2000 or more negatives with it, and have never seen a streak. Where did you hear of this? And how would the scanning software know how to compensate for what sounds like a defect in your scanner hardware? Godfrey --- Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am afraid there is a bad news. Vuescan is known to have streaks when using Minolta scanners. My Minolte Elite has the same issue as well, particular with the blue channel. What I have found is that the mirror inside the scanner has some spots which the software should take care of, but Vuescan doesn't. The streaks can be fixed with Single Row Marquee Tool in PS but time consuming. Another software I am aware is SilverFast, but I think they support Scan Dual III IV only. http://www.silverfast.com/pricing/en.html http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8group=comp.periphs.scanners = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
--- Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been using Vuescan and a Minolta Scan Dual II since Fall of 2000, have scanned perhaps 2000 or more negatives with it, and have never seen a streak. Where did you hear of this? And how would the scanning software know how to compensate for what sounds like a defect in your scanner hardware? I first noticed this problem when one of my 8x12 print had a long yellow line. Then I searched (streaking + minolta) for answer on comp.periphs.scanners and found it was a Minolta issue with Vuescan. Since Minolta software doesn't have such issue, and Vuescan doesn't use Minolta SDK like SilverFast does, quite possible Minolta use the software to mask the hardware flaw on the mirror. I have switched the mirror upside down and ran some tests. My conclusion is that the mirror is the source of problem. Since not all scanners have spots on the mirrors, some Minolta scanners might be perfectly fine with Vuescan, while some don't. http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8group=comp.periphs.scanners = Alan Chan http://www.pbase.com/wlachan __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
I've got over 5,000 scans on my Scan Dual II, so my mirror must not have the problem. -- Best regards, Bruce Friday, February 25, 2005, 6:46:10 PM, you wrote: AC --- Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been using Vuescan and a Minolta Scan Dual II since Fall of 2000, have scanned perhaps 2000 or more negatives with it, and have never seen a streak. Where did you hear of this? And how would the scanning software know how to compensate for what sounds like a defect in your scanner hardware? AC I first noticed this problem when one of my 8x12 print had a long yellow line. Then AC I searched (streaking + minolta) for answer on AC comp.periphs.scanners and found it AC was a Minolta issue with Vuescan. Since Minolta software doesn't have such issue, AC and Vuescan doesn't use Minolta SDK like SilverFast does, quite possible Minolta use AC the software to mask the hardware flaw on the mirror. I have switched the mirror AC upside down and ran some tests. My conclusion is that the mirror is the source of AC problem. Since not all scanners have spots on the mirrors, some Minolta scanners AC might be perfectly fine with Vuescan, while some don't. AC http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8group=comp.periphs.scanners AC = AC Alan Chan AC http://www.pbase.com/wlachan AC __ AC Do you Yahoo!? AC Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. AC http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Re: Alternatives to vuescan
Hmm. Interesting. I suspect something else could be the problem. When I first got the Scan Dual II, I ran the MInolta software. I wasn't satisfied with it, it both tended to crash frequently and my scans weren't particularly sharp. That's what motivated me to try Vuescan ... Vuescan's focusing algorithm is far superior to Minolta's, at least for the Scan Dual II: my scan's became razor sharp, and Vuescan never crashed on me. If the streak is a very thin, 1pixel line, it's possible that the Minolta software simply doesn't resolve it. Of course, the Minolta Elite is a different scanner from the Scan Dual and Scan Dual II, with different hardware in it. I don't believe there's a mirror in the SD models at all (could be wrong). I have had excellent results with the SDII and Vuescan, it has never let me down. I don't do much scanning anymore, but I keep up to date with Vuescan releases and it's all I use. Godfrey --- Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I first noticed this problem when one of my 8x12 print had a long yellow line. Then I searched (streaking + minolta) for answer on comp.periphs.scanners and found it was a Minolta issue with Vuescan. Since Minolta software doesn't have such issue, and Vuescan doesn't use Minolta SDK like SilverFast does, quite possible Minolta use the software to mask the hardware flaw on the mirror. I have switched the mirror upside down and ran some tests. My conclusion is that the mirror is the source of problem. Since not all scanners have spots on the mirrors, some Minolta scanners might be perfectly fine with Vuescan, while some don't. http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8group=comp.periphs.scanners __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
