Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Brian Walters
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:11:37 +0200, Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?
 
 -- 


I'd need to know more but almost certainly not.  I can't imaging
anything of lower spec than the K200D being of much use to me, given
that I already have the *istDS.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/
-- 


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread timber
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

For those who don't know about the new camera... would you share some
information? :D

.t


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread David Savage
Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs  performance similar
to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of their equipment.

Cheers,

Dave

2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Derby Chang
Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the roadmap I'd like to get.

And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era camera straps that I can 
find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on the strap buckles 
are great for motor drive film cams (I need another one for the 
HexarRF). I like nipples.

D



David Savage wrote:
 Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs  performance similar
 to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of their equipment.

 Cheers,

 Dave

 2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
 

   


-- 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Jack Davis
Nice grab!

Jack


--- On Mon, 9/8/08, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 5:22 AM
 We can tell
 
 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg
 
 
 
 Derby Chang wrote:
  Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the roadmap
 I'd like to get.
 
  And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era
 camera straps that I can 
  find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on
 the strap buckles 
  are great for motor drive film cams (I need another
 one for the 
  HexarRF). I like nipples.
 
  D
 
 
 
  David Savage wrote:

  Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs
  performance similar
  to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of
 their equipment.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Dave
 
  2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  
  For those who know about the new camera (I
 mean the small low-end one
  ;) ), do you feel like buying it?
 
  --
  Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
  


  
 
 

 
 
 -- 
 You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a
 kind word alone.
   --Al Capone.
 
 
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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Thibouille
Adam, who said the new camera wasn't replacing K200D? :p
According to current informations it would (supposedly) replace or
compliment it between K200D and K20D.

-- 
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...
Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB
Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007)

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Cory Waters
I love how all the women are glaring at her... funny stuff.
CW

P. J. Alling wrote:
 We can tell

 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg



 Derby Chang wrote:
   
 Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the roadmap I'd like to get.

 And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era camera straps that I can 
 find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on the strap buckles 
 are great for motor drive film cams (I need another one for the 
 HexarRF). I like nipples.

 D



 David Savage wrote:
   
 
 Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs  performance similar
 to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of their equipment.

 Cheers,

 Dave

 2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   
 
   
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
 
   
 
   
 
   
   
 


   
 


 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
 Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.18/1658 - Release Date: 9/7/2008 
 3:30 PM

   


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread timber
Why do K200D or K20D need a replacement? What Pentax _may_ need is
something lower than K200D or higher than K20D.

K200D Minus could be something like the Micro Four Thirds from Olympus.
Ergo a K bayonetted, interchangeable compact camera :P Like a Micro K.

K20D Plus could be FF camera

There are rumours about Samsung developing a Optical Viewfinderless DSLR
and also a FF sensor...

.t

 Adam, who said the new camera wasn't replacing K200D? :p
 According to current informations it would (supposedly) replace or
 compliment it between K200D and K20D.

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille



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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread P. J. Alling
We can tell

http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg



Derby Chang wrote:
 Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the roadmap I'd like to get.

 And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era camera straps that I can 
 find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on the strap buckles 
 are great for motor drive film cams (I need another one for the 
 HexarRF). I like nipples.

 D



 David Savage wrote:
   
 Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs  performance similar
 to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of their equipment.

 Cheers,

 Dave

 2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   
 
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
 
   
   
 


   


-- 
You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
--Al Capone.


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Adam Maas
Frankly, the K200D is already low-end enough. The only way they could
go lower on a saleable body without completely crippling the camera is
to simply reintroduce the K100D Super updated with the new processing
software used in the K2 series bodies. Otherwise we'll end up with
something as uncompetitive as the Rebel XS. The K200D IS a low-end
camera that Pentax thinks is a mid-range consumer body for some
reason.

What Pentax needs is a real mid-range body. Either a K20D sensor or
the Sony 12MP sensor in a K200D body with 3fps and a 6-9 shot RAW
buffer.

-Adam

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 3:11 AM, Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
 --
 Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...
 Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB
 Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007)

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread David Savage
Yep, lenses too.

I have all my shooting needs covered already lens wise. Now I await a
body that will have a decent low light capable sensor in it.

But I'm not holding my breath while I wait for it.

Cheers,

Dave

2008/9/8 Derby Chang [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the roadmap I'd like to get.

 And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era camera straps that I can
 find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on the strap buckles
 are great for motor drive film cams (I need another one for the
 HexarRF). I like nipples.

 D



 David Savage wrote:
 Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs  performance similar
 to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of their equipment.

 Cheers,

 Dave

 2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Thibouille
Well the K200D could indeed receive an upgrade for a very good reason:
the base camera is damn good (just a K10D with a couple features
missing) but the buffer/fps really is a joke, espcieally the
ridicullous buffer.

Other than that the K200D is a very fine camera.

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 2:46 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Why do K200D or K20D need a replacement? What Pentax _may_ need is
 something lower than K200D or higher than K20D.

 K200D Minus could be something like the Micro Four Thirds from Olympus.
 Ergo a K bayonetted, interchangeable compact camera :P Like a Micro K.

 K20D Plus could be FF camera

 There are rumours about Samsung developing a Optical Viewfinderless DSLR
 and also a FF sensor...

 .t

 Adam, who said the new camera wasn't replacing K200D? :p
 According to current informations it would (supposedly) replace or
 compliment it between K200D and K20D.

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille



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-- 
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...
Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB
Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007)

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread timber
 Well the K200D could indeed receive an upgrade for a very good reason:
 the base camera is damn good (just a K10D with a couple features
 missing) but the buffer/fps really is a joke, espcieally the
 ridicullous buffer.

 Other than that the K200D is a very fine camera.


But wouldn't users would be pissed off if half year after they bought a
camera there is already a replacement? I am surely would be angry to
Pentax if they announce a K20D Super already with 'fixed' flaws of the
K20D (for example the crap Live View)

.timber


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Thibouille
Well for what I know (which is nowhere near official, Pentax-Hoya
seems a lot more NDA guys than before and I'm not under NDA) it seems
this time some might want to upgrade their istDS (although  doubt we
will see TTL or anything else than pentamirror).

Other than those two issues, it seems a nice upgrade to the DS (on
e.g. the size point of view). A bit bigger probably but quite smaller
than the K200D.

An small upgrade of the K20D is rumoured as well (K20D super?).

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 10:20 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 For those who don't know about the new camera... would you share some
 information? :D

 .t


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-- 
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...
Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB
Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007)

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Thibouille
Sure they would but I expect Hoya-Pentax to go that route more than before...

A least they do not market upgrade versions as full new  versions
(read...Canon-like).

Personnaly, I do not think the K20D needs anything more than what it
has already. But the K200D or an intermediate model would be welcome,
even more if its size is more DS-like.

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 2:58 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well the K200D could indeed receive an upgrade for a very good reason:
 the base camera is damn good (just a K10D with a couple features
 missing) but the buffer/fps really is a joke, espcieally the
 ridicullous buffer.

 Other than that the K200D is a very fine camera.


 But wouldn't users would be pissed off if half year after they bought a
 camera there is already a replacement? I am surely would be angry to
 Pentax if they announce a K20D Super already with 'fixed' flaws of the
 K20D (for example the crap Live View)

 .timber


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Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...
Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB
Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007)

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Adam Maas
Everything I've heard indicates something below the K200D. A K2000D per se.

-Adam

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Adam, who said the new camera wasn't replacing K200D? :p
 According to current informations it would (supposedly) replace or
 compliment it between K200D and K20D.

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
 --
 Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...
 Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB
 Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007)

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http://www.mawz.ca
Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Adam Maas
The K200D is not enough camera for too much money. Apart from the
weather sealing the Sony A200 matches or exceeds it in every regard
(especially AF and buffer/fps) for around $200 less and the Nikon D80
is roughly the same price while far more camera. It's not a bad
camera, just a bad value (the opposite of the K100D and K10D, which
were very, very good values)

The K200D needs to be moved seriously downmarket (if that means
dropping the sealing and calling it a K2000D, so be it) and replaced
by an actual mid-range product.

It's telling that of the K-series cameras only the K200D is rarely
seen around here. I suspect there are more K2 and KX owners on the
list than K200D owners.

-Adam

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 8:46 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Why do K200D or K20D need a replacement? What Pentax _may_ need is
 something lower than K200D or higher than K20D.

 K200D Minus could be something like the Micro Four Thirds from Olympus.
 Ergo a K bayonetted, interchangeable compact camera :P Like a Micro K.

 K20D Plus could be FF camera

 There are rumours about Samsung developing a Optical Viewfinderless DSLR
 and also a FF sensor...

 .t

 Adam, who said the new camera wasn't replacing K200D? :p
 According to current informations it would (supposedly) replace or
 compliment it between K200D and K20D.

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille



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 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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http://www.mawz.ca
Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Steve Desjardins
Interesting choice of words.

 Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/8/2008 8:36 AM 
Nice grab!

Jack


--- On Mon, 9/8/08, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 5:22 AM
 We can tell
 
 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg 
 
 
 
 Derby Chang wrote:
  Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the roadmap
 I'd like to get.
 
  And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era
 camera straps that I can 
  find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on
 the strap buckles 
  are great for motor drive film cams (I need another
 one for the 
  HexarRF). I like nipples.
 
  D
 
 
 
  David Savage wrote:

  Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs
  performance similar
  to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of
 their equipment.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Dave
 
  2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  
  For those who know about the new camera (I
 mean the small low-end one
  ;) ), do you feel like buying it?
 
  --
  Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
  


  
 
 

 
 
 -- 
 You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a
 kind word alone.
   --Al Capone.
 
 
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 PDML@pdml.net 
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net 
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!SIG:48c51ca396091897443020!


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Thibouille
The price is indeed a bit steep although there seems to be quite
differences in different markets: the distibutors may be partly at
fault here.

I read a couple times already that in Eastern Europe, the K200D is
selling like hot cakes. In the US (and other places as well) it is
expensive regarding the issues noted by Adam.

-- 
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...
Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB
Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007)

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Jack Davis
Was no accident. 8-P

Jack


--- On Mon, 9/8/08, Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 7:23 AM
 Interesting choice of words.
 
  Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/8/2008
 8:36 AM 
 Nice grab!
 
 Jack
 
 
 --- On Mon, 9/8/08, P. J. Alling
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know,
 would you buy it?
  To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 pdml@pdml.net
  Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 5:22 AM
  We can tell
  
 
 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg
 
  
  
  
  Derby Chang wrote:
   Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the
 roadmap
  I'd like to get.
  
   And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era
  camera straps that I can 
   find. Love those pockets, and those little
 nipples on
  the strap buckles 
   are great for motor drive film cams (I need
 another
  one for the 
   HexarRF). I like nipples.
  
   D
  
  
  
   David Savage wrote:
 
   Until Pentax come out with a camera with
 specs
   performance similar
   to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any
 more of
  their equipment.
  
   Cheers,
  
   Dave
  
   2008/9/8 Thibouille
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   
   For those who know about the new camera
 (I
  mean the small low-end one
   ;) ), do you feel like buying it?
  
   --
   Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
   
 
 
   
  
  
 
  
  
  -- 
  You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with
 a
  kind word alone.
  --Al Capone.
  
  
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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread timber
 I read a couple times already that in Eastern Europe, the K200D is
 selling like hot cakes.

True :) Here the K200D is the best price / value machine most of us can
get. Even if the price of the K200D is still high for most people... I
think the ultra-low budget compacts (which have IQ like a phone-cam) are
selling very well here too :)

.t


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Ken Waller
I like nipples

MARK !

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message - 
From: Derby Chang [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?


 Lenses too? There's some nice ones on the roadmap I'd like to get.

 And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era camera straps that I can
 find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on the strap buckles
 are great for motor drive film cams (I need another one for the
 HexarRF). I like nipples.

 D



 David Savage wrote:
 Until Pentax come out with a camera with specs  performance similar
 to the Nikon D700, I'm not buying any more of their equipment.

 Cheers,

 Dave

 2008/9/8 Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 For those who know about the new camera (I mean the small low-end one
 ;) ), do you feel like buying it?

 --
 Thibault Massart aka Thibouille





 -- 

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc

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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Joseph McAllister

On Sep 8, 2008, at 04:39 , Derby Chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 And I've been grabbing all the Pentax MZ-era camera straps that I  
 can find. Love those pockets, and those little nipples on the strap  
 buckles are great for motor drive film cams (I need another one for  
 the HexarRF). I like nipples.

 D


Guess I'm going to have to go with the redhead...   :-)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg

Joseph McAllister
Pentaxian


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread frank theriault
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Joseph McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Guess I'm going to have to go with the redhead...   :-)

 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg

Dear me, how shocking!

cheers,
frank

-- 
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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread Brian Walters
Actually, recent price reductions in OZ have now made the K200D very
competitive.  It can be had for $A700 from a reputable dealer which is
considerably better than the $A1200 (approx) that it was listed for
originally.

I'm still aiming for the K20D but I haven't totally excluded the 200D
from consideration.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/





On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:48:36 -0400, Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 The K200D is not enough camera for too much money. Apart from the
 weather sealing the Sony A200 matches or exceeds it in every regard
 (especially AF and buffer/fps) for around $200 less and the Nikon D80
 is roughly the same price while far more camera. It's not a bad
 camera, just a bad value (the opposite of the K100D and K10D, which
 were very, very good values)
 
 The K200D needs to be moved seriously downmarket (if that means
 dropping the sealing and calling it a K2000D, so be it) and replaced
 by an actual mid-range product.
 
 It's telling that of the K-series cameras only the K200D is rarely
 seen around here. I suspect there are more K2 and KX owners on the
 list than K200D owners.
 
 -Adam
 
 On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 8:46 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Why do K200D or K20D need a replacement? What Pentax _may_ need is
  something lower than K200D or higher than K20D.
 
  K200D Minus could be something like the Micro Four Thirds from Olympus.
  Ergo a K bayonetted, interchangeable compact camera :P Like a Micro K.
 
  K20D Plus could be FF camera
 
  There are rumours about Samsung developing a Optical Viewfinderless DSLR
  and also a FF sensor...
 
  .t
 
  Adam, who said the new camera wasn't replacing K200D? :p
  According to current informations it would (supposedly) replace or
  compliment it between K200D and K20D.
 
  --
  Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
 
 
-- 


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Re: Coming camera(s) : for thow who know, would you buy it?

2008-09-08 Thread David J Brooks
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 2:06 PM, frank theriault
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Joseph McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Guess I'm going to have to go with the redhead...   :-)

 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/08_09/08_09_chalk/16.jpg

 Dear me, how shocking!

I don;t have an office any more, so i can open those freely now.:-)

Dave

 cheers,
 frank

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 Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
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