Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
BTW, Ann, another thread I looked at when checking the archive (I was off list for about a week and should still be) was your photo gallery. Nice shots! I especially like High Desert Morning and Toledo Bus Stop. But I like all of them. I don't how you make the ordinary look so interesting. I hope I develop 1/4 of your skill with that technique someday. Very, very nice gallery. Marnie aka Doe
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On Wed, 5 Oct 2005, E.R.N. Reed wrote: Shel Belinkoff wrote: Are you suggesting that ~overall~ performance with the D is disappointing, or just JPEG results? If JPEG, in what way are you let down? Have you adjusted the settings for JPEG - I'm assuming the D has similar adjustments of contrast, sharpness, and saturation like the DS? Just JPEG results. When I shoot JPEGs with my Optio 550 (which is all I ever shoot with the Optio 550) in most well-lighted situations, the pictures that come off the card and into my computer frequently need no post-processing. If I use the istD as a point & shoot in the same way -- good lighting, program autoexposure, save as JPEG -- I usually end up with pictures that look overexposed or need post-processing for other issues. So, then, the P&S is a very good P&S, and the DSLR makes a poor P&S. But, I believe the default settings are different on the -Ds and again on the -DL; I seem to recall Dario mentioning that. Kostas
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Shel Belinkoff wrote: Hi ERN, Are you suggesting that ~overall~ performance with the D is disappointing, or just JPEG results? If JPEG, in what way are you let down? Have you adjusted the settings for JPEG - I'm assuming the D has similar adjustments of contrast, sharpness, and saturation like the DS? Just JPEG results. When I shoot JPEGs with my Optio 550 (which is all I ever shoot with the Optio 550) in most well-lighted situations, the pictures that come off the card and into my computer frequently need no post-processing. If I use the istD as a point & shoot in the same way -- good lighting, program autoexposure, save as JPEG -- I usually end up with pictures that look overexposed or need post-processing for other issues. So, then, the P&S is a very good P&S, and the DSLR makes a poor P&S. ERNR
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Hi ERN, Are you suggesting that ~overall~ performance with the D is disappointing, or just JPEG results? If JPEG, in what way are you let down? Have you adjusted the settings for JPEG - I'm assuming the D has similar adjustments of contrast, sharpness, and saturation like the DS? Shel > From: E.R.N. Reed > > i'll go along with that, although I've never shot jpegs with my *istD, > > only with a little P&S. > > Paul > > > > > My little P&S does 'em much better than my *istD (which is just as well, > but nevertheless, wrt the performance of the *istD, disappointing.)
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Paul Stenquist wrote: On Oct 4, 2005, at 9:46 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: (Shooting JPEG in camera, however, is much more like shooting slide film.) i'll go along with that, although I've never shot jpegs with my *istD, only with a little P&S. Paul My little P&S does 'em much better than my *istD (which is just as well, but nevertheless, wrt the performance of the *istD, disappointing.)
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 4/10/05, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: >It's actually quite similar to shooting B&W negative film. Expose the >neg for what you know you're going to have to do in the darkroom. >In fact, I'd say that shooting RAW and not expecting to adjust black and >white points is like shooting negative film and not expecting to print >on anything other than grade 3 paper, with no burning, dodging or other >subtle darkroom techniques. Yes, it's possible, but very, very rare. > >(Shooting JPEG in camera, however, is much more like shooting slide >film.) I shoot slides :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Rob Studdert wrote: > > On 4 Oct 2005 at 21:46, Mark Roberts wrote: > > > It's actually quite similar to shooting B&W negative film. Expose the > > neg for what you know you're going to have to do in the darkroom. > > In fact, I'd say that shooting RAW and not expecting to adjust black and > > white points is like shooting negative film and not expecting to print > > on anything other than grade 3 paper, with no burning, dodging or other > > subtle darkroom techniques. Yes, it's possible, but very, very rare. > > > > (Shooting JPEG in camera, however, is much more like shooting slide > > film.) > > When I was shooting JPG I spent a whole lot of time farting about in the > set-up > menus setting contrast and lot more time than I do now chimping at histograms. > Well contrast IS something I alter in photoshop sometimes... a > Rob Studdert > HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA > Tel +61-2-9554-4110 > UTC(GMT) +10 Hours > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ > Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Rob Studdert wrote: > > On 4 Oct 2005 at 22:58, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > > > I'm shooting in jpg, at the highest resolution - > > though I had done a few > > RAWS last June... travelling, I couldn't have > > shot in RAW - couldn't afford enough cards. > > Last trip I shot 63GB of RAW files on a single 2GB card (I'm fibbing just a > bit > I had a 512MB too, which I used a grand total of twice to store about 5 > images). I did however have an autonomous 80GB hard drive/card reader, it cost > me less than my 2GB card. If you can get your hands on a second hand > CompactDrive PD7X shell (about US$120) I'm sure someone here could donate an > old 12-20GB 2.5:" hard drive for it. > > Cheers, > > Rob Studdert I had a 1 gig and a 512 ... at Wehatfield's I backed up waht I had taken that far on his machine and a cd - then twice more on the machine of others... still keeping stuff on the cards... all that stuff above is greek to me -- except for $120 US :) maybe I should have said it's geek to me... ugh im sleepy ann
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 4 Oct 2005 at 21:46, Mark Roberts wrote: > It's actually quite similar to shooting B&W negative film. Expose the > neg for what you know you're going to have to do in the darkroom. > In fact, I'd say that shooting RAW and not expecting to adjust black and > white points is like shooting negative film and not expecting to print > on anything other than grade 3 paper, with no burning, dodging or other > subtle darkroom techniques. Yes, it's possible, but very, very rare. > > (Shooting JPEG in camera, however, is much more like shooting slide > film.) When I was shooting JPG I spent a whole lot of time farting about in the set-up menus setting contrast and lot more time than I do now chimping at histograms. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 4 Oct 2005 at 22:58, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > I'm shooting in jpg, at the highest resolution - > though I had done a few > RAWS last June... travelling, I couldn't have > shot in RAW - couldn't afford enough cards. Last trip I shot 63GB of RAW files on a single 2GB card (I'm fibbing just a bit I had a 512MB too, which I used a grand total of twice to store about 5 images). I did however have an autonomous 80GB hard drive/card reader, it cost me less than my 2GB card. If you can get your hands on a second hand CompactDrive PD7X shell (about US$120) I'm sure someone here could donate an old 12-20GB 2.5:" hard drive for it. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Mark Roberts wrote: > > "Rob Studdert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >On 4 Oct 2005 at 9:47, Powell Hargrave wrote: > > > >> My goal is to get it right in the final image. > >> If I get the shot close enough in camera to give material to produce the > >> final image that is being strived for with no lose of quality that is > >> success. > >> > >> After manipulating digital images for a while you can envision what can be > >> done which allows more freedom when shooting. > > > >This is similar to what I've said since I started shooting RAW exclusively, I > >make my exposure to ensure that I have the best data to use in post > >processing. > >This modus operandi doesn't always mean that the image will look great out of > >the camera but I know my final prints and digital images will. > > It's actually quite similar to shooting B&W negative film. Expose the > neg for what you know you're going to have to do in the darkroom. > In fact, I'd say that shooting RAW and not expecting to adjust black and > white points is like shooting negative film and not expecting to print > on anything other than grade 3 paper, with no burning, dodging or other > subtle darkroom techniques. Yes, it's possible, but very, very rare. Funny... because that is exactly what I did when I printed - I rarely printed on anything but #3 or equivalent in multi-grade paper and virtually never did any selective dodging and burning. No patience. But I'd bracket when I shot and change filters and such. > > (Shooting JPEG in camera, however, is much more like shooting slide > film.) > I'm shooting in jpg, at the highest resolution - though I had done a few RAWS last June... travelling, I couldn't have shot in RAW - couldn't afford enough cards. annsan the stubborn > > -- > Mark Roberts > Photography and writing > www.robertstech.com
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Rob Studdert wrote: > > On 4 Oct 2005 at 20:04, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > > > IF I had done the eye dropper thing though, would > > I still be able to claim at photo.net that > > the image was unmanipulated? > > Yes. > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/manipulation.html > > >From "What is an unmanipulated image?" > > "Contrast adjustments and color balance adjustments may be made in enlargement > and printing, scanning software, image editing software, etc, as may selective > darkening or lightening of areas of the photograph (dodging and burning). But > these should not be so extreme as to render the image an inaccurate or > unrealistic representation of what the photographer saw" > > Rob Studdert > HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA > Tel +61-2-9554-4110 > UTC(GMT) +10 Hours > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ > Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 Thanks, luv :) ann
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On Oct 4, 2005, at 9:46 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: (Shooting JPEG in camera, however, is much more like shooting slide film.) i'll go along with that, although I've never shot jpegs with my *istD, only with a little P&S. Paul
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Of course. Adjusting shadow and highlight level as well as color temperature, hue and sharpness -- to name just a few -- are normal parts of the digital workflow. It's like picking paper contrast, focusing your enlarger and determining paper exposure and development time. One must do these things to obtain a quality image, particularly if you shoot RAW. If you shoot jpeg, you're leaving all those factors up to the dumb camera. Paul On Oct 4, 2005, at 8:04 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: Kenneth Waller wrote: It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, >and it can't read the photographer's mind. Paul I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an admission that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide shooting background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. YMMV Kenneth Waller Yup. Well, what I really meant to say to Butch, I guess, is that it looks ok to me - conforming to my memory of the scene... and I do tend not to show images unless I feel I got it right without doing anything more radical than cropping, shifting the overall color balance a tad, taking out specks of "dust" which may be specks of stuff that exist in real life but are distracting. IF I had done the eye dropper thing though, would I still be able to claim at photo.net that the image was unmanipulated? ann -Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip Hi Ann, I don't think anyone would say that adjusting black point in a digital image is manipulation. There's no such thing as a "pure" digital image. The camera is manipulating the image according to preset parameters. The photographer certainly can adjust those same parameters to achieve the vision he or she had hoped to record. In fact, I would say the photographer is obligated to fine tune a digital image. It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, and it can't read the photographer's mind. Paul Butch Black wrote: Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and morning coffee. Thanks, Butch - I like to hear which ones stand out to different folk. I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, Elements, or most of the other image editing programs. Butch hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of manipulation and I like not to do that... I see what you mean, though, but just barely. I use photoshop elements 2.0, for the record. never used eyedropper tool. ann PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
"Rob Studdert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On 4 Oct 2005 at 9:47, Powell Hargrave wrote: > >> My goal is to get it right in the final image. >> If I get the shot close enough in camera to give material to produce the >> final image that is being strived for with no lose of quality that is >> success. >> >> After manipulating digital images for a while you can envision what can be >> done which allows more freedom when shooting. > >This is similar to what I've said since I started shooting RAW exclusively, I >make my exposure to ensure that I have the best data to use in post >processing. >This modus operandi doesn't always mean that the image will look great out of >the camera but I know my final prints and digital images will. It's actually quite similar to shooting B&W negative film. Expose the neg for what you know you're going to have to do in the darkroom. In fact, I'd say that shooting RAW and not expecting to adjust black and white points is like shooting negative film and not expecting to print on anything other than grade 3 paper, with no burning, dodging or other subtle darkroom techniques. Yes, it's possible, but very, very rare. (Shooting JPEG in camera, however, is much more like shooting slide film.) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Hey Paul, When a digital shot is successful right out of the camera, it's the camera that's getting it right. And >that only works if you're shooting jpeg. Since all I've shot digitally, so far, is jpeg, this sounds alot like shooting slides and living with the characteristics of the film and my exposure ability - ergo get it right in the camera. When you shoot RAW, you have to set the parameters yourself. I'll soon be trying this as I know have CS2 installed on a new PC. However, even when shooting jpegs, you can almost always improve on the camera's preselected >parameters. And I normally do. I generally like velvia like saturation. It's not the same as shooting slide film. Sure sounds like it though, at least with jpegs. Kenneth Waller - Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip Hi Ken, When a digital shot is successful right out of the camera, it's the camera that's getting it right. And that only works if you're shooting jpeg. The camera has pre-set parameters that try to come close to a correct rendering of the scene. When you shoot RAW, you have to set the parameters yourself. However, even when shooting jpegs, you can almost always improve on the camera's preselected parameters. It's not the same as shooting slide film. Paul > It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The > camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, >and it can't read the photographer's mind. >Paul I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an admission that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide shooting background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. YMMV Kenneth Waller -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip Hi Ann, I don't think anyone would say that adjusting black point in a digital image is manipulation. There's no such thing as a "pure" digital image. The camera is manipulating the image according to preset parameters. The photographer certainly can adjust those same parameters to achieve the vision he or she had hoped to record. In fact, I would say the photographer is obligated to fine tune a digital image. It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, and it can't read the photographer's mind. Paul > Butch Black wrote: > > > > Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and > > morning > > coffee. > > Thanks, Butch - I like to hear which ones stand > out to different folk. > > >I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. > > Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, > > Elements, > > or most of the other image editing programs. > > > > Butch > > > hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of > manipulation and I > like not to do that... I see what you mean, > though, but just barely. > > I use photoshop elements 2.0, for the record. > never used eyedropper tool. > > ann > PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 4 Oct 2005 at 20:04, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > IF I had done the eye dropper thing though, would > I still be able to claim at photo.net that > the image was unmanipulated? Yes. http://www.photo.net/photodb/manipulation.html >From "What is an unmanipulated image?" "Contrast adjustments and color balance adjustments may be made in enlargement and printing, scanning software, image editing software, etc, as may selective darkening or lightening of areas of the photograph (dodging and burning). But these should not be so extreme as to render the image an inaccurate or unrealistic representation of what the photographer saw" Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Powell Hargrave wrote: > > >I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an > >admission that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide > >shooting background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. > >Kenneth Waller > > My goal is to get it right in the final image. > If I get the shot close enough in camera to give material to produce the > final image that is being strived for with no lose of quality that is success. > > After manipulating digital images for a while you can envision what can be > done which allows more freedom when shooting. > > Powell I just don't think that way. Can't help it. I love that I can look at the image just after shooting to get a vague idea if I've been successful, my problem in shooting is being able to hold the camera steady enough for the light conditions I'm working in :) If I don't get it right to my way of thinking, no one else is gonna see it. and if I have to mess with it too much in photoshop, well - it just goes in the trash. I'm a ruthless editor of my own work... though I certainly miss the mark often enough anyway. ann, the anti-post processor
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Kenneth Waller wrote: > > > It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The > > camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, >and it can't read the > > photographer's mind. > >Paul > > I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an > admission that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide > shooting background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. > > YMMV > > Kenneth Waller Yup. Well, what I really meant to say to Butch, I guess, is that it looks ok to me - conforming to my memory of the scene... and I do tend not to show images unless I feel I got it right without doing anything more radical than cropping, shifting the overall color balance a tad, taking out specks of "dust" which may be specks of stuff that exist in real life but are distracting. IF I had done the eye dropper thing though, would I still be able to claim at photo.net that the image was unmanipulated? ann > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > Hi Ann, > I don't think anyone would say that adjusting black point in a digital image > is manipulation. There's no such thing as a "pure" digital image. The camera > is manipulating the image according to preset parameters. The photographer > certainly can adjust those same parameters to achieve the vision he or she > had hoped to record. In fact, I would say the photographer is obligated to > fine tune a digital image. It's akin to choosing the correct film and > exposing it accurately. The camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, and it > can't read the photographer's mind. > Paul > > > Butch Black wrote: > > > > > > Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and morning > > > coffee. > > > > Thanks, Butch - I like to hear which ones stand > > out to different folk. > > > > >I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. > > > Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, > > > Elements, > > > or most of the other image editing programs. > > > > > > Butch > > > > > > hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of > > manipulation and I > > like not to do that... I see what you mean, > > though, but just barely. > > > > I use photoshop elements 2.0, for the record. > > never used eyedropper tool. > > > > ann > > > > > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 4 Oct 2005 at 9:47, Powell Hargrave wrote: > My goal is to get it right in the final image. > If I get the shot close enough in camera to give material to produce the > final image that is being strived for with no lose of quality that is success. > > After manipulating digital images for a while you can envision what can be > done which allows more freedom when shooting. This is similar to what I've said since I started shooting RAW exclusively, I make my exposure to ensure that I have the best data to use in post processing. This modus operandi doesn't always mean that the image will look great out of the camera but I know my final prints and digital images will. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Powell Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an >>admission that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide >>shooting background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. >>Kenneth Waller > >My goal is to get it right in the final image. >If I get the shot close enough in camera to give material to produce the >final image that is being strived for with no lose of quality that is success. I find in a lot of cases that I can get *either* the black point or the white point right when shooting (it's a matter of the dynamic range of your scene/subject). This gives you no choice but to correct one or both in RAW conversion. My preference is to get the white point right (prevent blown-out highlights) and correct the black point in conversion. >After manipulating digital images for a while you can envision what can be >done which allows more freedom when shooting. Agreed. That's pretty much how I work: Try to come as close as possible to nailing the final image at time of exposure, but be aware of where and how compromises can be made in shooting in order to make correction as easy as possible when necessary. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
>I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an >admission that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide >shooting background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. >Kenneth Waller My goal is to get it right in the final image. If I get the shot close enough in camera to give material to produce the final image that is being strived for with no lose of quality that is success. After manipulating digital images for a while you can envision what can be done which allows more freedom when shooting. Powell
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Hi Ken, When a digital shot is successful right out of the camera, it's the camera that's getting it right. And that only works if you're shooting jpeg. The camera has pre-set parameters that try to come close to a correct rendering of the scene. When you shoot RAW, you have to set the parameters yourself. However, even when shooting jpegs, you can almost always improve on the camera's preselected parameters. It's not the same as shooting slide film. Paul > > It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The > > camera > is too dumb to do that perfectly, >and it can't read the photographer's mind. > >Paul > > I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an > admission > that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide shooting > background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. > > YMMV > > Kenneth Waller > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > Hi Ann, > I don't think anyone would say that adjusting black point in a digital image > is > manipulation. There's no such thing as a "pure" digital image. The camera is > manipulating the image according to preset parameters. The photographer > certainly can adjust those same parameters to achieve the vision he or she > had > hoped to record. In fact, I would say the photographer is obligated to fine > tune > a digital image. It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it > accurately. The camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, and it can't read > the > photographer's mind. > Paul > > > > Butch Black wrote: > > > > > > Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and morning > > > coffee. > > > > Thanks, Butch - I like to hear which ones stand > > out to different folk. > > > > >I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. > > > Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, > > > Elements, > > > or most of the other image editing programs. > > > > > > Butch > > > > > > hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of > > manipulation and I > > like not to do that... I see what you mean, > > though, but just barely. > > > > I use photoshop elements 2.0, for the record. > > never used eyedropper tool. > > > > ann > > > > > > > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
> It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The camera > is too dumb to do that perfectly, >and it can't read the photographer's mind. >Paul I'll agree with Ann on this. When I adjust black/white point, its an admission that I've come up short as a photographer. Coming from my slide shooting background, my goal is to get it right in the camera. YMMV Kenneth Waller -Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip Hi Ann, I don't think anyone would say that adjusting black point in a digital image is manipulation. There's no such thing as a "pure" digital image. The camera is manipulating the image according to preset parameters. The photographer certainly can adjust those same parameters to achieve the vision he or she had hoped to record. In fact, I would say the photographer is obligated to fine tune a digital image. It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, and it can't read the photographer's mind. Paul > Butch Black wrote: > > > > Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and morning > > coffee. > > Thanks, Butch - I like to hear which ones stand > out to different folk. > > >I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. > > Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, Elements, > > or most of the other image editing programs. > > > > Butch > > > hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of > manipulation and I > like not to do that... I see what you mean, > though, but just barely. > > I use photoshop elements 2.0, for the record. > never used eyedropper tool. > > ann > PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
It's similar to choosing which contrast grade of paper you'd use. Shel > [Original Message] > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I don't think anyone would say that adjusting black point in a digital image is manipulation. > >I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. > > Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, Elements, > > or most of the other image editing programs. > > hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of > > manipulation and I like not to do that...
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Hi Ann, I don't think anyone would say that adjusting black point in a digital image is manipulation. There's no such thing as a "pure" digital image. The camera is manipulating the image according to preset parameters. The photographer certainly can adjust those same parameters to achieve the vision he or she had hoped to record. In fact, I would say the photographer is obligated to fine tune a digital image. It's akin to choosing the correct film and exposing it accurately. The camera is too dumb to do that perfectly, and it can't read the photographer's mind. Paul > Butch Black wrote: > > > > Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and morning > > coffee. > > Thanks, Butch - I like to hear which ones stand > out to different folk. > > >I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. > > Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, Elements, > > or most of the other image editing programs. > > > > Butch > > > hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of > manipulation and I > like not to do that... I see what you mean, > though, but just barely. > > I use photoshop elements 2.0, for the record. > never used eyedropper tool. > > ann >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Butch Black wrote: > > Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and morning > coffee. Thanks, Butch - I like to hear which ones stand out to different folk. >I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. > Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, Elements, > or most of the other image editing programs. > > Butch hmmm I think that would fall under the heading of manipulation and I like not to do that... I see what you mean, though, but just barely. I use photoshop elements 2.0, for the record. never used eyedropper tool. ann
RE: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Nice series Ann. I particularly liked bus stop in Redmond Ca. and morning coffee. I liked the space needle but think it could use a bit of contrast. Try using the black eyedropper on the needle if you are using PS, Elements, or most of the other image editing programs. Butch
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip (and stuff re bw)
frank theriault wrote: > > On 10/2/05, Ann Sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I keep adding to this > > > > random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > > > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > > > A couple are from bus or train window - > > all digital - sorry, not ist > > > > What a wonderful gallery! (so far - I bet you've got many more gems > to show us). > > At first blush, these jump out: > > Will Call, Lilly, Dusk Near Regina, Morning Coffee, City Lights > Bookstore (which really needs to be in B&W ), Shopping (even if you > weren't in it I'd like it a lot). > > Terrific stuff! > > cheers, > frank > Frank (and all you guys) again , thanks so much for your encouragement - and it really is helpful when people pick out faves. I think MY favorite is the high desert morning, so lucky to get that one.. to be in that place.. f8 and be there . I took a lot of shots I would have taken in BW had I been shooting film - but I'm now getting used to shooting color. I'm not happy with my conversions to black and white from color for display... there were any number of times on the trip where I missed having my trusty KX or LX, tri-x and a 50mm f1.4. ann > -- > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Bob W wrote: > > as much as I hate to line up with the crowd, I agree with both. Heaven forefend! >I don't know > which name kept going through my head more: Robert Frank, or Edward Hopper. WOw - well, um, frankly (ohoh pun alert) I'm awfully glad to have someone think of Hopper - I'm a big fan. But I'll take getting mentioned in the same breath with Frank... Golly - you guys know how to make a girl feel good. > Makes me want to buy a Greyhound ticket. Bob, trust me, you DON'T want to do THAT :) > > I'm getting a bit sick of PDMLers and their galleries. First Juan, then > Jostein, now this. I may have to give up photography. > > -- > Cheers, > Bob I'm awfully pleased to be in their company, too! annsan the blushing > > > -Original Message- > > From: Boris Liberman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 02 October 2005 08:32 > > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > > Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > > > > Really nice gallery Ann, your eye for line and form is > > second to none. > > > > As much as dislike agreeing with Cotty ;-) (kidding), I agree > > with him completely. > > > > Ann, you rule! > > > > -- > > Boris > > > > > > > >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 10/2/05, Ann Sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I keep adding to this > > random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > A couple are from bus or train window - > all digital - sorry, not ist > What a wonderful gallery! (so far - I bet you've got many more gems to show us). At first blush, these jump out: Will Call, Lilly, Dusk Near Regina, Morning Coffee, City Lights Bookstore (which really needs to be in B&W ), Shopping (even if you weren't in it I'd like it a lot). Terrific stuff! cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
RE: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Ann, One more voice... Very nice. Particularly liked your photograph in the Toledo bus station. Gautam > -Original Message- > From: Ann Sanfedele [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 10:10 PM > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > > I keep adding to this > > random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > A couple are from bus or train window - > all digital - sorry, not ist > > ann > >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
All very wonderful photos, Ann. I'm particularly fond of "High Desert Morning". Good to have you back. On 10/2/05, Ann Sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I keep adding to this > > random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > A couple are from bus or train window - > all digital - sorry, not ist > > ann > > -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
RE: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Thanks - that's very kind. And you're right, I do need to take a road trip. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: Bob Sullivan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 02 October 2005 16:38 > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > Bob, > We've seen a gallery or two from you, all good. > Just time for you to take a road trip... :-) Regards, Bob S. >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 10/2/05, Ann Sanfedele wrote: I keep adding to this http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 Oh my, I really enjoy your pictures, Ann -- every one of these is worth a careful look. Lines! You have such a great eye for lines! Lovely photographs, thanks very much for sharing them. *>UncaMikey
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Bob, We've seen a gallery or two from you, all good. Just time for you to take a road trip... :-) Regards, Bob S. On 10/2/05, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > as much as I hate to line up with the crowd, I agree with both. I don't know > which name kept going through my head more: Robert Frank, or Edward Hopper. > Makes me want to buy a Greyhound ticket. > > I'm getting a bit sick of PDMLers and their galleries. First Juan, then > Jostein, now this. I may have to give up photography. > > -- > Cheers, > Bob > > > -Original Message- > > From: Boris Liberman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 02 October 2005 08:32 > > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > > Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > > > > Really nice gallery Ann, your eye for line and form is > > second to none. > > > > As much as dislike agreeing with Cotty ;-) (kidding), I agree > > with him completely. > > > > Ann, you rule! > > > > -- > > Boris > > > > > > > > > >
RE: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
There some really good pictures here. To be honest, I think all of them are. As somebody has stated before; you have fabulous eye for lines and perspective: Shopping is a winner: btw: sorry about my : and ; my keyboard is freaking out here: Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) > -Original Message- > From: Ann Sanfedele [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 2. oktober 2005 07:10 > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > I keep adding to this > > random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > A couple are from bus or train window - > all digital - sorry, not ist > > ann >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Ann. I always enjoy viewing your photos, and you came through again here. well done. Doug On Oct 2, 2005, at 1:10 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: I keep adding to this random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 A couple are from bus or train window - all digital - sorry, not ist ann
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hi Ann and welcome back. > > Great stuff. I love shopping and welcome to trina's. > > Dave > Thanks, Dave! The "victems in these shots like them, too, I'm happy to say. oh, now I really do have to get out of here later, a > > I keep adding to this > > > > random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > > > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > > > A couple are from bus or train window - > > all digital - sorry, not ist > > > > ann > > > >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Hi Ann and welcome back. Great stuff. I love shopping and welcome to trina's. Dave > I keep adding to this > > random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > A couple are from bus or train window - > all digital - sorry, not ist > > ann >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
"E.R.N. Reed" wrote: > > Ann Sanfedele wrote: > > >http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > > > > > > Fantastic stuff! > Where *didn't* you go (other than to my part of the country, that is)? > > ERNR Lovely to open my eyes first thing on Sunday and get kudos - thanks _all_ of you for checking out the page and doling out the kind words... ..And Ern, I actually went to a few -fewer- states and provences than it looks like and that I had originally planned. But that's another story. I'm off to the wedding of a friend and "unofficially" shooting the event for her wedding present. I still have so much stuff from the trip to weed through... and now - I better get off my ... get going... The Scrabble championship, ironically, is going to be broadcast today on ESPN not only in conflict with the Red Sox game but with former National Scrabble Champion , Rita Norr's wedding - ugh. it airs exactly when she is going to be exchanging vows. annsan on the run
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
Ann Sanfedele wrote: http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 Fantastic stuff! Where *didn't* you go (other than to my part of the country, that is)? ERNR
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
My but you have a great eye. I love the "Bus stop in Redmond California, " "City Lights Book Store," "Morning Cofee." Heck, there's not a shot here I don't like. The sunset and powerline shot is just beautifully composed. Great frame. "Welcome to Trina's" is fascinating. Fabulous work. Paul On Oct 2, 2005, at 1:10 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: I keep adding to this random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 A couple are from bus or train window - all digital - sorry, not ist ann
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
I love the marina pic especially. John On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 06:10:22 +0100, Ann Sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I keep adding to this random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 A couple are from bus or train window - all digital - sorry, not ist ann -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
RE: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
as much as I hate to line up with the crowd, I agree with both. I don't know which name kept going through my head more: Robert Frank, or Edward Hopper. Makes me want to buy a Greyhound ticket. I'm getting a bit sick of PDMLers and their galleries. First Juan, then Jostein, now this. I may have to give up photography. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: Boris Liberman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 02 October 2005 08:32 > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip > > > Really nice gallery Ann, your eye for line and form is > second to none. > > As much as dislike agreeing with Cotty ;-) (kidding), I agree > with him completely. > > Ann, you rule! > > -- > Boris > > > >
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
> Really nice gallery Ann, your eye for line and form is second to none. As much as dislike agreeing with Cotty ;-) (kidding), I agree with him completely. Ann, you rule! -- Boris
Re: GESO: stuff from my bus/train trip
On 2/10/05, Ann Sanfedele, discombobulated, unleashed: >I keep adding to this > >random order due to photo.net but my laziness, too > >http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=518950 > >A couple are from bus or train window - >all digital - sorry, not ist Really nice gallery Ann, your eye for line and form is second to none. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
