RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
Graywolf wrote: Boy am I glad I am out of the work force. Did I ever mention the time I got a bad work review, so I just quit trying to do my job. Just came in, sat there, and was friendly to everyone. Ignored the job description completely. Did no actual work. They told me how much I had improved. HAR! You could pick an argument in an empty room :-) Malcolm
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
frank theriault wrote: Well, Malcolm, you're right. The culture of I just want this off my desk should change. Problem, it's not so easy a fix as one might think. With the advent of computers, receptionists must now be much more than a pretty face to smile at the business men who walk in the door. Any company that wants culture change, has to have this desire from the very top of the organisation. It has to accept that many of the things being done are wrong, without slapping blame everywhere. I spent three years of my life on a project alongside my everyday job doing just that - total culture change. Receptionists are the first face that people see in your company building. Those that are faffing around after others aren't doing there job; it's someone else's job they have got involved in. And, it's not their job.. They are now expected to be jack (jills?) of all trades, who are also secretaries, accountants, logistics technicians, coffee brewers and schedulers of board rooms and catering services, dog walkers and day care providers. I've walked into offices to pick up parcels from poor receptionists who are still frantically putting the finishing touches on a package to go out because the boss needed to make last minute changes after the call for pick up was made, by which time poor receptionist had already embarked on a series of tasks for other bosses, and is trying to do 5 things at once, along with readying my package for me. Most of these problems occur because no one understands the impact/importance/relevance on one job to another. Simply taking senior staff back to the sharp end for a week or so, gives them an understanding of what they ask and are expecting their staff to do. This often comes as a heck of a shock. Seeing what you do in the company and how you can help others just by straight communication. I saw in one week senior management stop referring to one departments 'excuses' as genuine problems. At that point, they really don't care if the package gets anywhere near it's destination. Off their desk is a real good start. Expecting higher productivity for lower pay is what's causing this culture that you talk about. We can thank the bean counters (as Tom likes calling them) for that one. 'Bean counters' have an important part to play if you let them. Often no one listens. As soon as you chuck out the 'them us' in the business environment, you have a chance for a committed and happy workforce. It does mean re-evaluating everything you may ever have done. People don't like change and you have to accept there will be a few people along the way who will entrench themselves in the old order. If you can't change the people, change the people One brief example: there was a vacancy for an accountant. One individual shone through on ability and personality. However, he was quite disabled. The line manager saw that as an issue, as much would have to be altered to give proper access and adapted workspace. So did I, as a problem for us, not the candidate for the job. Sometimes not only are you fighting against the old cultures of a company, you are fighting against individuals discrimination. He got the job by the way! The building should have been wheelchair accessible anyway, but someone slowed such works down. I wonder how many excellent people we missed out on employing over the years? Rant over. Malcolm
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
Malcolm Smith wrote: frank theriault wrote: Well, Malcolm, you're right. The culture of I just want this off my desk should change. Problem, it's not so easy a fix as one might think. With the advent of computers, receptionists must now be much more than a pretty face to smile at the business men who walk in the door. Any company that wants culture change, has to have this desire from the very top of the organisation. It has to accept that many of the things being done are wrong, without slapping blame everywhere. Not WRONG. Please. Just things that can be done better--- sometimes much much better -- if someone will stop telling people they are doing WRONG. :-P Otis Wright
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
When something is done incorrectly, and there's only two ways to do it, right and wrong, there IS a wrong way. Now, it's up to the boss or supervisor or parent, or whomever, to soft pedal the word and insist that it be done correctly. I think you're trying to avoid instilling in students of any age, but especially young inexperienced people, that they did something wrong, as though it was a bad thing. Right? Wrong is not automatically bad, unless you're assembling an atomic bomb. Anyone can make a mistake, and most people will, on occasion, until they get the right training and experience. That mistake is part of the learning experience, and as such it might well be wrong but the teacher should not allow the connotation of bad to be attached to wrong. Bad is only when you do it on purpose... IMMHO, keith whaley Otis Wright wrote: Malcolm Smith wrote: frank theriault wrote: Well, Malcolm, you're right. The culture of I just want this off my desk should change. Problem, it's not so easy a fix as one might think. With the advent of computers, receptionists must now be much more than a pretty face to smile at the business men who walk in the door. Any company that wants culture change, has to have this desire from the very top of the organisation. It has to accept that many of the things being done are wrong, without slapping blame everywhere. Not WRONG. Please. Just things that can be done better--- sometimes much much better -- if someone will stop telling people they are doing WRONG. :-P Otis Wright
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
Keith Whaley wrote: When something is done incorrectly, and there's only two ways to do it, right and wrong, there IS a wrong way. Now, it's up to the boss or supervisor or parent, or whomever, to soft pedal the word and insist that it be done correctly. I think you're trying to avoid instilling in students of any age, but especially young inexperienced people, that they did something wrong, as though it was a bad thing. Right? Wrong is not automatically bad, unless you're assembling an atomic bomb. Anyone can make a mistake, and most people will, on occasion, until they get the right training and experience. That mistake is part of the learning experience, and as such it might well be wrong but the teacher should not allow the connotation of bad to be attached to wrong. Bad is only when you do it on purpose... Indeed, when it is done on purpose. People make mistakes, the culture element is where you can tell your workmates/supervisor that there is a problem without recrimination. People who work in such environments don't tend to make many mistakes anyway, as they don't have that fear of explaining problems... Malcolm
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
Insurance isn't free. Their insurance only covers the replacement cost because they are paying a premium. The premium is based on claims experience, and it will cover not just the full cost of all expected claims, but also the admin cost and profits. It's a complete fallacy to think that insurance pays. John On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:12:31 +0100, Malcolm Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Robb wrote: They have decided that it is more profitable to screw up and lose the delivery. Their insurance coughs up the replacement cost, and in all likelyhood they will deliver the replacement. It's called profiting from ones mistakes, and they have elevated it to a business model. There is a Douglas Adams quality to this statement! Malcolm -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
- Original Message - From: John Forbes Subject: Re: OT:Parcel delivery. Insurance isn't free. Their insurance only covers the replacement cost because they are paying a premium. The premium is based on claims experience, and it will cover not just the full cost of all expected claims, but also the admin cost and profits. It's a complete fallacy to think that insurance pays. And in who's world does a company not carry liability insurance as standard procedure? They are paying for it, whether or not they make claims. It's a complete fallacy to think that companies don't take use of liability insurance into account when they are setting up their business plan. Otherwise, why have it in the first place. William Robb
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
William Robb wrote: And in who's world does a company not carry liability insurance as standard procedure? They are paying for it, whether or not they make claims. It's a complete fallacy to think that companies don't take use of liability insurance into account when they are setting up their business plan. Otherwise, why have it in the first place. No business in their right mind doesn't carry liability insurance, even where it isn't compulsory to do so. The issue here is cost and in today's world where potential claims can be large, premiums are very high. To reduce this, most companies have a large excess or element of self insurance. One company I worked for had an enormous excess of way into 6 figures GBP. To reduce the costs further most excesses are layered with additional polices for higher sums to get better insurance premiums through lesser risk of claiming, i.e. the 2nd excess policy only picking up claims from say GBP1 million to GBP3 million and so on. How this package works to a parcel delivery company for continual lower level claims (although you would require the cover in the event of the loss of say, a distribution hub), would be interesting to note, but no Underwriter is going to spend more on paying claims and associated administration costs than he gets in premiums! Malcolm
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
frank theriault wrote: UPS won't dump the residential deliveries, because they want to be Your One Stop Courier Company. They want secretaries, rececptions and mail room guys to have one courier company on their speed dial, for all their needs. Whichever company delivers 'whatever to wherever', should be in the business of aiming for 100% success, not by nature of being at the top of the list of agents to call. If such businesses have to think, Hmmm... Is this an in town or out of town delivery? Do I call UPS or the local guys? Is this overnight, or one hour service?, then that confuses them. Much easier to have one number to call. You start calling other companies and you get sales people dropping by, telling you that they can provide services similar to UPS for much much less. UPS loses a customer, or their business is much diminished. I have no doubt you're right, but I would expect mailroom staff to know the best and most efficient way (cost time) of getting something delivered. No doubt many companies simply negotiate a contract for all deliveries - but surely someone monitors performance of this for negotiating the next contract period? I'm always amazed when I go into an office and see the UPS pile for out of town overnights. I'll say, you know, we do overnights out of town, too, and way cheaper than UPS (or Fedex, or whoever). They had no idea. They should. No excuse there. And, to be honest with you (as someone who works in the business), I can tell you that the average receptionist or mailroom staffer really doesn't care if the package gets delivered. They care if the package gets off their desk. Right now. So that when the boss comes, they can say, Yup, it's gone. Went out an hour ago. Then it's not their problem any more. Not delivered? UPS screwed up, not me. Call tracking, they'll fix it. This is a culture that needs to be changed. It's not good enough to say it's gone - it needs to be delivered and the customer will think of both the supplier and the deliverer. Of course it depends on the value of the items being sent - think of the threads here about choices of delivery from camera stores on high value items - but if you are sending something to someone, it has a value. Why should any delivery company change it's performance figures if the senders don't much care. The real irony here, is they aren't even paying for it. It's the recipient who picks up the bill for the item the delivery!! Malcolm
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
You hit that nail on the head, Frank. frank theriault wrote: And, to be honest with you (as someone who works in the business), I can tell you that the average receptionist or mailroom staffer really doesn't care if the package gets delivered. They care if the package gets off their desk. Right now. So that when the boss comes, they can say, Yup, it's gone. Went out an hour ago. Then it's not their problem any more. Not delivered? UPS screwed up, not me. Call tracking, they'll fix it. -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
Maybe what is needed is for everyone to place their order, then when they say they can not ship the way you want, tell them to cancel it. I think only a lot of canceled orders are likely to reach management's ears. Just not ordering will not get to them. BH now will do USPS for a slight extra fee. That probably came about because their customer service manager was active on the rec.photo groups, so heard a lot of complaints that would never have gotten to him otherwise. -- Malcolm Smith wrote: Why should any delivery company change it's performance figures if the senders don't much care. The real irony here, is they aren't even paying for it. It's the recipient who picks up the bill for the item the delivery!! -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
Graywolf wrote: Maybe what is needed is for everyone to place their order, then when they say they can not ship the way you want, tell them to cancel it. I think only a lot of canceled orders are likely to reach management's ears. Just not ordering will not get to them. BH now will do USPS for a slight extra fee. That probably came about because their customer service manager was active on the rec.photo groups, so heard a lot of complaints that would never have gotten to him otherwise. Why not? We have choice over the dealer of a camera for example, choice in how we pay and as the customer, why shouldn't the person paying have the choice of delivery? Malcolm
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
Nobody said it was free. But it is often cheaper than taking the steps necessary to avoid the replacement (such as allowing drivers enough time to walk up to the door and ring the doorbell, rather than just dumping the package in the nearest convenient spot). The same is true in *all* businesses. Cars could be made safer, electronics could be tested before shipping, etc. But there is a cost to doing so, and there is a point at which these costs far exceed the possible liabilty incurred by not spending that extra money up front. Insurance isn't free. Their insurance only covers the replacement cost because they are paying a premium. The premium is based on claims experience, and it will cover not just the full cost of all expected claims, but also the admin cost and profits. It's a complete fallacy to think that insurance pays. John On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:12:31 +0100, Malcolm Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Robb wrote: They have decided that it is more profitable to screw up and lose the delivery. Their insurance coughs up the replacement cost, and in all likelyhood they will deliver the replacement. It's called profiting from ones mistakes, and they have elevated it to a business model. There is a Douglas Adams quality to this statement! Malcolm -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
Frank wrote: UPS won't dump the residential deliveries, because they want to be Your One Stop Courier Company. They want secretaries, receptionists and mail room guys to have one courier company on their speed dial, for all their needs. Then there is the ever increasing internet mail order shopping business, which I believe will generate a big chunk of change for the delivery services. The problem, for the consumer, is that the courier companies are probably going to offer good deals to large mail order companies to be their exclusive shipper. Since the almighty dollar talks, once that happens the courier company is going to have to screw up badly and often to get the mail order company to change. My 2 Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
You're right in several places, Butch. The internet order thing is huge, and lucrative, so these companies are falling all over themselves to become exclusive deliverer for these guys who now have a huge chunk of their sales from the internet. Obviously they feel it's worth it, because the rates they charge must be really low. Otherwise, why would so many places say ship UPS only? If they're cheaper than the post office, they must be cheap! I know damn well, that if a schmuck like me walks in off the street to a UPS agent and asks for rates to send a small package, UPS, Fedex and the rest are WY more expensive than the post. The other salient point that you make is that there does seem something of a groundswell, if this list is any indicator. How many here are now prepared to say to a shipper, if you send UPS, I'll go somewhere else? Sounds like a few! Maybe UPS doesn't care if they don't deliver the odd package, and has insurance pay for the item, but retailers are going to start using other shipping companies if they get enough customers taking their business somewhere else. ~That's~ when the almighty dollar means something. cheers, frank The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer From: Butch Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT:Parcel delivery. Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:46:00 -0500 Frank wrote: UPS won't dump the residential deliveries, because they want to be Your One Stop Courier Company. They want secretaries, receptionists and mail room guys to have one courier company on their speed dial, for all their needs. Then there is the ever increasing internet mail order shopping business, which I believe will generate a big chunk of change for the delivery services. The problem, for the consumer, is that the courier companies are probably going to offer good deals to large mail order companies to be their exclusive shipper. Since the almighty dollar talks, once that happens the courier company is going to have to screw up badly and often to get the mail order company to change. My 2ยข Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian) _ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
Well, Malcolm, you're right. The culture of I just want this off my desk should change. Problem, it's not so easy a fix as one might think. With the advent of computers, receptionists must now be much more than a pretty face to smile at the business men who walk in the door. They are now expected to be jack (jills?) of all trades, who are also secretaries, accountants, logistics technicians, coffee brewers and schedulers of board rooms and catering services, dog walkers and day care providers. I've walked into offices to pick up parcels from poor receptionists who are still frantically putting the finishing touches on a package to go out because the boss needed to make last minute changes after the call for pick up was made, by which time poor receptionist had already embarked on a series of tasks for other bosses, and is trying to do 5 things at once, along with readying my package for me. At that point, they really don't care if the package gets anywhere near it's destination. Off their desk is a real good start. Expecting higher productivity for lower pay is what's causing this culture that you talk about. We can thank the bean counters (as Tom likes calling them) for that one. cheers, frank The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer At some point in the recent past, your humble servant opined: And, to be honest with you (as someone who works in the business), I can tell you that the average receptionist or mailroom staffer really doesn't care if the package gets delivered. They care if the package gets off their desk. Right now. So that when the boss comes, they can say, Yup, it's gone. Went out an hour ago. Then it's not their problem any more. Not delivered? UPS screwed up, not me. Call tracking, they'll fix it. Malcolm, with much erudition, retorted: This is a culture that needs to be changed. It's not good enough to say it's gone - it needs to be delivered and the customer will think of both the supplier and the deliverer. Of course it depends on the value of the items being sent - think of the threads here about choices of delivery from camera stores on high value items - but if you are sending something to someone, it has a value. Why should any delivery company change it's performance figures if the senders don't much care. The real irony here, is they aren't even paying for it. It's the recipient who picks up the bill for the item the delivery!! Malcolm _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
Graywolf wrote: Ah the old toss it in the trash trick. When I was in the Air Force a long long while back my parents decided to toss out those boxes of old books I had, including a first edition of The Swiss Family Robinson. On the one hand, I had only paid 99 cents for it. On the other, it really was worth about a thousand dollars back then, and who knows what today. Your friend has my heart felt sympathy. Ouch! What a way for a first edition to go. This parcel delivery business really baffles me. It wasn't that long ago when the adverts of the various companies reflected what happened in real life - you pay the company to deliver it for an agreed fee upfront (excluding customs or duties where applicable), they take care of it and deliver it to the door and hand it to the recipient on receipt of a signature. Somewhere in delivery world, a new order has taken over. Perhaps I need to read the get out clauses for such companies in depth, but with the number of complaints I hear, it is impossible for management not to be aware of this as an issue. So I expect it comes down to percentage and number of claims that are acceptable per van delivery trip. My guess is they are now on the limit of how much they can expect a delivery driver to do, before his/her corner cutting really shows. So many big companies, when they start out, talk about making money as a by product of their quality. Most go from quality to quantity pretty quickly. And it shows... Malcolm
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
- Original Message - From: Malcolm Smith Subject: RE: OT:Parcel delivery. This parcel delivery business really baffles me. It wasn't that long ago when the adverts of the various companies reflected what happened in real life - you pay the company to deliver it for an agreed fee upfront (excluding customs or duties where applicable), they take care of it and deliver it to the door and hand it to the recipient on receipt of a signature. They have decided that it is more profitable to screw up and lose the delivery. Their insurance coughs up the replacement cost, and in all likelyhood they will deliver the replacement. It's called profiting from ones mistakes, and they have elevated it to a business model. William Robb
RE: OT:Parcel delivery.
William Robb wrote: They have decided that it is more profitable to screw up and lose the delivery. Their insurance coughs up the replacement cost, and in all likelyhood they will deliver the replacement. It's called profiting from ones mistakes, and they have elevated it to a business model. There is a Douglas Adams quality to this statement! Malcolm
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
At 07:40 PM 1/04/2004, you wrote: . When he came in from work, having put the empty bin back, he opened his front door to find that note. Malcolm That's it - First of April! ;-D (*)o(*) Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
Robert Mapson wrote: That's it - First of April! ;-D Thought about today's date after I posted it, but sadly this isn't a joke, it happened yesterday :-( Malcolm
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
- Original Message - From: Malcolm Smith Subject: OT:Parcel delivery. In the hope that the following is a one off piece of delivery genius: One of my friends had a parcel delivered by Parcelforce yesterday. He wasn't in, but was expecting an expensive eBay purchase from Australia (a book). Instead of trying next door, the delivery driver put a note through his letter box to state he had put it under the lid of his wheeled rubbish bin. Every one in his road had a bin out near the kerb yesterday. When he came in from work, having put the empty bin back, he opened his front door to find that note. Sounds like something UPS would do. Except UPS wouldn't leave the note. William Robb
Re: OT:Parcel delivery.
Ah the old toss it in the trash trick. When I was in the Air Force a long long while back my parents decided to toss out those boxes of old books I had, including a first edition of The Swiss Family Robinson. On the one hand, I had only paid 99 cents for it. On the other, it really was worth about a thousand dollars back then, and who knows what today. Your friend has my heart felt sympathy. -- Malcolm Smith wrote: In the hope that the following is a one off piece of delivery genius: One of my friends had a parcel delivered by Parcelforce yesterday. He wasn't in, but was expecting an expensive eBay purchase from Australia (a book). Instead of trying next door, the delivery driver put a note through his letter box to state he had put it under the lid of his wheeled rubbish bin. Every one in his road had a bin out near the kerb yesterday. When he came in from work, having put the empty bin back, he opened his front door to find that note. Malcolm -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
