Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
On 1/6/2013 7:35 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Basically, over time, sharing my photos on PDML has given me a much better idea of what my better photos are. The feedback here has been invaluable. And looking at others' PDML photos, there are some very good photographers here, gives me things to aim for or "ape." Soon after I joined PDML, when I was (re)starting my photography, I have found an interesting idea that I think helped me grow in terms of photography. I would sit and force myself to write something meaningful about each photo I would see. Well, granted back then PDML was producing less photographic volume, so I had a bit of fore. It is actually quite hard. Sometimes very hard. But each time I've done that, it returned to me as a thought I would have while looking at my own images. Given, that often photography would elicit emotional response, it would actually pay to put emotions into words. And from the beginning, I have tried to limit the photos I show on PDML to not overburden anyone with looking. I realize only some of us are retired, and many are busy working and looking at photos takes time. Sometimes I go through a "showing mood" and when in that mood, I try to limit my PESOs to one a day (although sometimes that is hard as I am so bursting with photos). Without any disrespect to people who show many photos - I have to agree with Marnie. It saddens me that I don't have time to properly sit and look through all the photos that talented people of PDML post. It is even worse that I might now have time to respond or comment on all photos that I see here and I'd like to comment about. G-d, sometimes, I would even find threads that I started with my own photos that I did not properly thank anyone who responded. For that I do apologize. I also have all my bare space covered at home with framed prints, and what random strangers notice gives me an idea too. I switch my photos out, not all of them, about once a year, and I am ready to do that again. Here is an idea to those who spend much time in front of computer. Establish a folder where you would put your chosen work and make it a slowly running slide show as your desktop wallpaper. Say, a photo would change every 15 mins. Given the rather big size of modern desktop screens, it could be fun. But I want to re-emphasize the feedback I have gotten from PDML is invaluable and something I have not found anywhere else. Although I am thinking of joining a real-life camera club (but it seems full of contests, and I not overly fond of contests. Trying it this month, we shall see.) I practically left real-life camera club exactly for that reason. They were mostly bent on competing and the guys there were very strong competitors. I on the other hand, wasn't looking to compete at all... Cheers! Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
On 1/6/2013 2:37 AM, Tom C wrote: I try to distance any emotion or the 'knowledge that I was there' when I critique my images. That tends to taint objectivity. I ask myself 'If this was someone else's image and not mine, would I like it as much?'. Normally, that wouldn't be an easy exercise for me. So I usually wait, sometimes weeks after the shot was taken, so that the immediate emotion and immediate memory becomes weaker. In extreme cases I might return to a shot way after it was taken and kind of kick myself in the forehead (my accent is still dissimilar to that of Jackie Chan :-) ) - how could I not notice this shot before... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 3:58 PM, David Parsons wrote: > My camera club does monthly competitions, and nothing cements the idea > that all judging is subjective until you have the same picture in > front of a couple different judges and getting totally different > responses from each one. > > I don't bother to try to pick what I think the judges will like, I > pick what I want to compete with, and let the chips fall where they > may. Yes, exactly! Triple-underline that last sentence. Also, don't pin all your hopes on any one contest. Adopt a who-cares attitude and you'll be fine. And then there's a long circuitous learning experience getting to where you're confidently able to pick what you want to compete with. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
My camera club does monthly competitions, and nothing cements the idea that all judging is subjective until you have the same picture in front of a couple different judges and getting totally different responses from each one. I don't bother to try to pick what I think the judges will like, I pick what I want to compete with, and let the chips fall where they may. On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:15 AM, wrote: >> Entering juried exhibits may lead to the same end. > > > Ive been there and bought the tee shirt! And won't be doing so until I know > the judges background. I've had very experiences with some of the judges > that have been on the jury - their background is important if you want your > photographs judged as photographs. Give me a photographer judge any time. > > Kenneth Waller > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller > > - Original Message ----- From: "Jack Davis" > > Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work > > > Offering the photo buying public a portfolio from which to select an image > is a facinating but head shaking experience. > It's a completely unpredictable randome and wonderous exercise that my > result in a degree of insecurity about your own judgement. > Entering juried exhibits may lead to the same end. > > Jack > > From: Mark Roberts > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:47 AM > Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work > > Bruce Walker wrote: > >> Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just >> your best work. >> >> I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then >> observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! > > > I think it would be an almost worthless exercise, myself. What > everyone, including Moose Peterson, seems to be missing is the fact > that you have to choose your best work *before* you put on this > "restaurant wall exhibit". How much space is available on the walls? > How many photographs do you shoot in a year? Most of the selection > process takes place before the photos go up. > > Moose Peterson has been shooting so long that his initial selection > process is almost instinctive now. That's why he didn't notice he was > doing it at all in his restaurant wall thought experiment. What he > really wants to do is what Tim Bray identified as the real trick for > someone who makes a living from this stuff: figure out what the public > is going to go for (and buy). > > So I'd say the Moose Peterson experiment is worthless from an artistic > standpoint but useful from a commercial standpoint. It just depends on > what your goal is. > > -- > Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia > http://www.robertstech.com/ > > > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > > Tom C. wrote: > > >One should be their own severest critic prior to displaying the work > to others. > > "Murder your darlings" - Arthur Quiller-Couch*, on how ruthless you > should be in editing your own work. He was talking about writing but it > applies to all art forms. > > > * I learned this saying from my mum, an English professor. She never > mentioned who said it so I had to do a quick web search just now. What a strange coincidence - the poem 'Say not the struggle nought availeth' was bouncing around in my skull, so I googled it and found that it's one of Quiller-Couch's. It's the sort of thing they used to read to us after prep at school and which I thought I was ignoring, but which has stuck in there. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Picking your victims is wherein lies the rub. Jack - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:31 AM Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work Tom C. wrote: >One should be their own severest critic prior to displaying the work to others. "Murder your darlings" - Arthur Quiller-Couch*, on how ruthless you should be in editing your own work. He was talking about writing but it applies to all art forms. * I learned this saying from my mum, an English professor. She never mentioned who said it so I had to do a quick web search just now. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia http://www.robertstech.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Tom C. wrote: >One should be their own severest critic prior to displaying the work to others. "Murder your darlings" - Arthur Quiller-Couch*, on how ruthless you should be in editing your own work. He was talking about writing but it applies to all art forms. * I learned this saying from my mum, an English professor. She never mentioned who said it so I had to do a quick web search just now. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
It's a result, seemingly, without end and unlearned. Jack - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:41 AM Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work Jack Davis wrote: >Offering the photo buying public a portfolio from which to select an image is >a facinating but head shaking experience. >It's a completely unpredictable randome and wonderous exercise that my result >in a degree of insecurity about your own judgement. >Entering juried exhibits may lead to the same end. That's why it's important to enter juried competitions: To learn to *not* let other people's opinions cause insecurity about your own judgment. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia http://www.robertstech.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
One should be their own severest critic prior to displaying the work to others. MARK! Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Tom C." Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work I agree with Mark on that. It's asking complete strangers, whose qualifications to render an experienced judgement call regarding photographic quality are unknown and likely lacking. The most one can expect is a subjective judgement. I like it or I don't, which is far different than 'is it a masterful piece of photographic art?', or 'is it marketable piece of photography?', or 'OK, since you like it, put your money where your mouth is - price is $500'. Even from a commercial standpoint there's a big difference between saying one likes an image, and actually pulling one's wallet out and purchasing a print. One should be their own severest critic prior to displaying the work to others. Tom C. Tom C From: Mark Roberts Bruce Walker wrote: Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just your best work. I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! I think it would be an almost worthless exercise, myself. What everyone, including Moose Peterson, seems to be missing is the fact that you have to choose your best work *before* you put on this "restaurant wall exhibit". How much space is available on the walls? How many photographs do you shoot in a year? Most of the selection process takes place before the photos go up. Moose Peterson has been shooting so long that his initial selection process is almost instinctive now. That's why he didn't notice he was doing it at all in his restaurant wall thought experiment. What he really wants to do is what Tim Bray identified as the real trick for someone who makes a living from this stuff: figure out what the public is going to go for (and buy). So I'd say the Moose Peterson experiment is worthless from an artistic standpoint but useful from a commercial standpoint. It just depends on what your goal is. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Entering juried exhibits may lead to the same end. Ive been there and bought the tee shirt! And won't be doing so until I know the judges background. I've had very experiences with some of the judges that have been on the jury - their background is important if you want your photographs judged as photographs. Give me a photographer judge any time. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Jack Davis" Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work Offering the photo buying public a portfolio from which to select an image is a facinating but head shaking experience. It's a completely unpredictable randome and wonderous exercise that my result in a degree of insecurity about your own judgement. Entering juried exhibits may lead to the same end. Jack From: Mark Roberts To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:47 AM Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work Bruce Walker wrote: Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just your best work. I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! I think it would be an almost worthless exercise, myself. What everyone, including Moose Peterson, seems to be missing is the fact that you have to choose your best work *before* you put on this "restaurant wall exhibit". How much space is available on the walls? How many photographs do you shoot in a year? Most of the selection process takes place before the photos go up. Moose Peterson has been shooting so long that his initial selection process is almost instinctive now. That's why he didn't notice he was doing it at all in his restaurant wall thought experiment. What he really wants to do is what Tim Bray identified as the real trick for someone who makes a living from this stuff: figure out what the public is going to go for (and buy). So I'd say the Moose Peterson experiment is worthless from an artistic standpoint but useful from a commercial standpoint. It just depends on what your goal is. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia http://www.robertstech.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
I agree with Mark on that. It's asking complete strangers, whose qualifications to render an experienced judgement call regarding photographic quality are unknown and likely lacking. The most one can expect is a subjective judgement. I like it or I don't, which is far different than 'is it a masterful piece of photographic art?', or 'is it marketable piece of photography?', or 'OK, since you like it, put your money where your mouth is - price is $500'. Even from a commercial standpoint there's a big difference between saying one likes an image, and actually pulling one's wallet out and purchasing a print. One should be their own severest critic prior to displaying the work to others. Tom C. Tom C > From: Mark Roberts > > Bruce Walker wrote: > >>Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just >>your best work. >> >>I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then >>observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! > > I think it would be an almost worthless exercise, myself. What > everyone, including Moose Peterson, seems to be missing is the fact > that you have to choose your best work *before* you put on this > "restaurant wall exhibit". How much space is available on the walls? > How many photographs do you shoot in a year? Most of the selection > process takes place before the photos go up. > > Moose Peterson has been shooting so long that his initial selection > process is almost instinctive now. That's why he didn't notice he was > doing it at all in his restaurant wall thought experiment. What he > really wants to do is what Tim Bray identified as the real trick for > someone who makes a living from this stuff: figure out what the public > is going to go for (and buy). > > So I'd say the Moose Peterson experiment is worthless from an artistic > standpoint but useful from a commercial standpoint. It just depends on > what your goal is. > > -- > Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Offering the photo buying public a portfolio from which to select an image is a facinating but head shaking experience. It's a completely unpredictable randome and wonderous exercise that my result in a degree of insecurity about your own judgement. Entering juried exhibits may lead to the same end. Jack From: Mark Roberts To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:47 AM Subject: Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work Bruce Walker wrote: >Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just >your best work. > >I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then >observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! I think it would be an almost worthless exercise, myself. What everyone, including Moose Peterson, seems to be missing is the fact that you have to choose your best work *before* you put on this "restaurant wall exhibit". How much space is available on the walls? How many photographs do you shoot in a year? Most of the selection process takes place before the photos go up. Moose Peterson has been shooting so long that his initial selection process is almost instinctive now. That's why he didn't notice he was doing it at all in his restaurant wall thought experiment. What he really wants to do is what Tim Bray identified as the real trick for someone who makes a living from this stuff: figure out what the public is going to go for (and buy). So I'd say the Moose Peterson experiment is worthless from an artistic standpoint but useful from a commercial standpoint. It just depends on what your goal is. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia http://www.robertstech.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Bruce Walker wrote: >Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just >your best work. > >I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then >observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! I think it would be an almost worthless exercise, myself. What everyone, including Moose Peterson, seems to be missing is the fact that you have to choose your best work *before* you put on this "restaurant wall exhibit". How much space is available on the walls? How many photographs do you shoot in a year? Most of the selection process takes place before the photos go up. Moose Peterson has been shooting so long that his initial selection process is almost instinctive now. That's why he didn't notice he was doing it at all in his restaurant wall thought experiment. What he really wants to do is what Tim Bray identified as the real trick for someone who makes a living from this stuff: figure out what the public is going to go for (and buy). So I'd say the Moose Peterson experiment is worthless from an artistic standpoint but useful from a commercial standpoint. It just depends on what your goal is. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Geez, could there be two more opposite audiences to present yourself to and expect feedback. * I'm hungry, quite possibly thirsty, and a random guy's art is hanging over the tops of my fellow diners' heads. I shall make a grand proclamation on the worthiness of his art to said fellow diners. Artist notes well. * I am a time-harried photo editor, trying to meet a printing deadline, and a random guy cold calls and wants me to give free advice. I will gladly give him my time, so he can sell his prints elsewhere. Moose is a commercial artist, and both avenues probably work for him since is he well-known and sells. But he is a 1 percenter. The quality over quantity message is good, though. I'll give him that. On 6/01/2013 8:19 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just your best work. I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 9:35 AM, wrote:
> Basically, over time, sharing my photos on PDML has given me a much better
> idea of what my better photos are. The feedback here has been invaluable.
> And looking at others' PDML photos, there are some very good photographers
> here, gives me things to aim for or "ape."
Actually, I should take the time to agree with this, since I could
have come off as not caring about what people think of my work; I do.
I'm pretty sure that PDML has improved my photography, but I’d flip
Marnie's findings. For me, the big win is looking at others’ photos
and letting them teach me (both positive and negative, “have to try
for some of that” and “Ewww, don’t go there”). Yes, I enjoy it when
people say my picture is good, and perhaps even more when someone
growls “fix the crop” or “bring up the highlights” or whatever. But I
learn way more from the pictures here than the words. -T
>
> Also I've taken several photography classes, especially with one teacher
> who is much more critical of my photos than I am. Sometimes his classes have
> really depressed me, but the upshot is my photos would be better with the
> use of a tripod. That is something I am only likely to do in Yosemite and
> for macros. I don't have much upper body strength and currently cannot
> afford a carbon fiber tripod, so lugging a tripod around with me is a
> hardship.
> But, naturally, almost any landscape photo is better with a tripod.
>
> And from the beginning, I have tried to limit the photos I show on PDML to
> not overburden anyone with looking. I realize only some of us are retired,
> and many are busy working and looking at photos takes time. Sometimes I go
> through a "showing mood" and when in that mood, I try to limit my PESOs to
> one a day (although sometimes that is hard as I am so bursting with
> photos).
>
> I also have all my bare space covered at home with framed prints, and what
> random strangers notice gives me an idea too. I switch my photos out, not
> all of them, about once a year, and I am ready to do that again.
>
> I do wish sometimes others would be more discriminating of the photos they
> show on PDML. Sometimes I get tired of looking. I go through patches of
> not looking or looking little. And sometimes I skip it just for some people
> unless there is a lot of feedback already.
>
> But I want to re-emphasize the feedback I have gotten from PDML is
> invaluable and something I have not found anywhere else. Although I am
> thinking of
> joining a real-life camera club (but it seems full of contests, and I not
> overly fond of contests. Trying it this month, we shall see.)
>
> For me, right now the bigger problem is continuing to challenge myself
> photographically, and I am starting to put together a list of things I have
> not tired yet or done very little: night shooting, HDR, playing with DOF,
> more macros, more people shots ("street photography"), frozen action shots,
> and maybe even "theme" months. I've found several photographic challenge
> sites, but most of those focus on a words list (for ideas) which I have not
> found all that helpful, because the PUG already does that and/or I can create
> my own.
>
> So still working on the challenge thing.
>
> My former photography teacher liked the list I made of how to be a better
> photographer and distributed it in at least one of his classes.
> http://www.mapphotography.com/ But it doesn't say how to edit. ;-)
>
> Marnie aka Doe :-)
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2013 1:19:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
> Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just
> your best work.
>
> I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then
> observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise!
>
> http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/
>
> --
> -bmw
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
>
> --
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> the directions.
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Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Rarely when I present a folio of images to an artist, of them at work, do their selections accord with what I deem as the most outstanding images of the set. Also when reviewing my stats on my publicly visible web based images I'm often bewildered by the popularity of particular images. Simply put everyone has a different perspective on what they like, and IMO if you are intent on choosing your best work you will do no better second guessing which images others might appreciate than simply selecting a set that pleases yourself. Cheers, On 6 January 2013 08:19, Bruce Walker wrote: > Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just > your best work. > > I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then > observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! > > http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ > > -- > -bmw > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
From: Larry Colen On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just your best work. I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ It touches on something I've been considering. I am miserable at judging my own work. Things that I consider "nice but not special" get high compliments from people who I respect, while things that I consider very cool and interesting get little, if any, reaction. The problem with the restaurant wall theory is that the people looking at stuff on the restaurant wall aren't necessarily the best critics of photography. I suppose that if there were a PDML cafe, the feedback might be a bit more useful, but it would probably just quickly degenerate into a bunch of scruffy middle aged photographers standing around making stupid puns that had nothing to do with the photograph in front of them. Put a price on them before you hang them. If they sell, you know you're on the right track. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Basically, over time, sharing my photos on PDML has given me a much better
idea of what my better photos are. The feedback here has been invaluable.
And looking at others' PDML photos, there are some very good photographers
here, gives me things to aim for or "ape."
Also I've taken several photography classes, especially with one teacher
who is much more critical of my photos than I am. Sometimes his classes have
really depressed me, but the upshot is my photos would be better with the
use of a tripod. That is something I am only likely to do in Yosemite and
for macros. I don't have much upper body strength and currently cannot
afford a carbon fiber tripod, so lugging a tripod around with me is a
hardship.
But, naturally, almost any landscape photo is better with a tripod.
And from the beginning, I have tried to limit the photos I show on PDML to
not overburden anyone with looking. I realize only some of us are retired,
and many are busy working and looking at photos takes time. Sometimes I go
through a "showing mood" and when in that mood, I try to limit my PESOs to
one a day (although sometimes that is hard as I am so bursting with
photos).
I also have all my bare space covered at home with framed prints, and what
random strangers notice gives me an idea too. I switch my photos out, not
all of them, about once a year, and I am ready to do that again.
I do wish sometimes others would be more discriminating of the photos they
show on PDML. Sometimes I get tired of looking. I go through patches of
not looking or looking little. And sometimes I skip it just for some people
unless there is a lot of feedback already.
But I want to re-emphasize the feedback I have gotten from PDML is
invaluable and something I have not found anywhere else. Although I am
thinking of
joining a real-life camera club (but it seems full of contests, and I not
overly fond of contests. Trying it this month, we shall see.)
For me, right now the bigger problem is continuing to challenge myself
photographically, and I am starting to put together a list of things I have
not tired yet or done very little: night shooting, HDR, playing with DOF,
more macros, more people shots ("street photography"), frozen action shots,
and maybe even "theme" months. I've found several photographic challenge
sites, but most of those focus on a words list (for ideas) which I have not
found all that helpful, because the PUG already does that and/or I can create
my own.
So still working on the challenge thing.
My former photography teacher liked the list I made of how to be a better
photographer and distributed it in at least one of his classes.
http://www.mapphotography.com/ But it doesn't say how to edit. ;-)
Marnie aka Doe :-)
In a message dated 1/5/2013 1:19:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just
your best work.
I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then
observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise!
http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/
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Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
On 1/6/2013 11:23, Walt wrote: __ . WALT WROTE: I take photos, find the ones that came out like I'd hoped, stick them up on the web to share with others, and if they say nice things about them, I say "Thank you!" And then, I just go out and take more photos. __ Ann hollers MARK!!! ann . -- Walt On 1/5/2013 3:19 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just your best work. I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
To date, I've yet to have a single image printed above 8 x 10, and have nothing framed and hanging on a wall, anywhere. In fact, I find the very idea of it completely mortifying. For me, it feels almost presumptuous to go to the effort of making a large print of an image I've taken and having it framed. My approach is pretty simple and stupid. I take photos, find the ones that came out like I'd hoped, stick them up on the web to share with others, and if they say nice things about them, I say "Thank you!" And then, I just go out and take more photos. I guess it just boils down to the fact that I enjoy the act of taking photos much more than I enjoy being a photographer. Yes, it would be extremely gratifying to have some of my work singled out for some measure of critical acclaim. But, I suppose it's just my nature to discount praise because I always compare my photos to the work of others and say to myself, "Yeah, my shot's OK, I guess. But, why the hell would anybody want it after they've seen the work of all these great photographers who actually know what they're doing?" That's not to say I don't have any shots that I really like. It's just that I can't quite escape the notion that I'm essentially Forrest Gump with a camera. -- Walt On 1/5/2013 3:19 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just your best work. I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Tim, on the topic of choosing What To Shoot, I 100% agree with you: choose subjects that you care about, know about, wish to learn about, feel passionate about. You may need to make an exception to this if you are shooting a commission or for stock. :) But I don't think that's Moose's angle. After you have chosen your topic of passion and you take 50 shots, assuming you want to show something publicly you need to narrow those down to your "best" work. So what does "best" mean? The shots that photo contest judges might pick? That random people off the street might pick? Best is at least the apparently strongest or most representative shots from the shoot. The ones that best _communicate your intent_. Right there, to me that means show them to people to get their reaction. Otherwise you ain't *communicating*. As to whether folks in a restaurant are the best judges of art, perhaps not. But they are people and that's who we want to communicate with, isn't it? Watching the reaction of complete strangers is going to get you more honest feedback than from your parents, friends, etc. And depending on what you hope to say it may be better feedback than you'd get from photo-club judges too as they won't be concerned about nit-picky technical details, just what the image says to them. On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Tim Bray wrote: > Apologies in advance for ranting, but this touches several hot > buttons. I couldn't possibly disagree more with Moose. If you want > to produce work that pleases the largest number of people, go and > publish picture of celebrities’ breasts. People love it, check out > any supermarket news-stand. Don't try to get into other people's > heads. There's only one human being whose tastes and feelings you > really understand, and that's you. > > I speak from my experience as a reasonably and occasionally > unreasonably popular writer. I have occasionally consciously > published something that I thought covered gripping essential issues, > with a huge investment of effort and multiple rewrites, and seen it > sink like a stone, unnoticed. Then a 45-minute squib that I write > while watching TV goes viral and gets 200,000 page-views. I'm not > smart enough, and I don't think anyone's smart enough, to predict what > people are going to like, and I think that pursuing it is deeply > corrupting. > > I'm pretty dogmatic: You should only bother sharing things that move > *you*. I bet if you talked to any artist, any genre, who really moved > the needle (not that I'm one of those), you'd probably hear the same > thing. -T > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: >> Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just >> your best work. >> >> I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then >> observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! >> >> http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ >> >> -- >> -bmw >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
Apologies in advance for ranting, but this touches several hot buttons. I couldn't possibly disagree more with Moose. If you want to produce work that pleases the largest number of people, go and publish picture of celebrities’ breasts. People love it, check out any supermarket news-stand. Don't try to get into other people's heads. There's only one human being whose tastes and feelings you really understand, and that's you. I speak from my experience as a reasonably and occasionally unreasonably popular writer. I have occasionally consciously published something that I thought covered gripping essential issues, with a huge investment of effort and multiple rewrites, and seen it sink like a stone, unnoticed. Then a 45-minute squib that I write while watching TV goes viral and gets 200,000 page-views. I'm not smart enough, and I don't think anyone's smart enough, to predict what people are going to like, and I think that pursuing it is deeply corrupting. I'm pretty dogmatic: You should only bother sharing things that move *you*. I bet if you talked to any artist, any genre, who really moved the needle (not that I'm one of those), you'd probably hear the same thing. -T On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: > Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just > your best work. > > I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then > observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! > > http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ > > -- > -bmw > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
What Ken said. I try to distance any emotion or the 'knowledge that I was there' when I critique my images. That tends to taint objectivity. I ask myself 'If this was someone else's image and not mine, would I like it as much?'. I look at those that make the cut a number of times and a few days later. If something bugs me about a shot then, I generally toss it. If I'm unsure whether it's good or not, I generally toss it. Tom C. > My mostly random thoughts - > In theory that seems like a good idea, but by that point you've already > picked out the images the viewers will see. Not to mention the cost to mount > and frame and the time involved to sit and take notes. > > IMO you have to set a standard for your own work, based on the work of > leaders in that field of photography, eliminate images that don't meet that > standard, keep only your best work and seek as much input as you can get > from any and all. I always ask those viewing my images what stands out to > them when they say they like a image of mine. > > My most helpful critiques have been from those photogs whos work I value the > most. > > YMMV > > > Kenneth Waller -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
On Jan 5, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: > Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just > your best work. > > I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then > observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! > > http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ It touches on something I've been considering. I am miserable at judging my own work. Things that I consider "nice but not special" get high compliments from people who I respect, while things that I consider very cool and interesting get little, if any, reaction. The problem with the restaurant wall theory is that the people looking at stuff on the restaurant wall aren't necessarily the best critics of photography. I suppose that if there were a PDML cafe, the feedback might be a bit more useful, but it would probably just quickly degenerate into a bunch of scruffy middle aged photographers standing around making stupid puns that had nothing to do with the photograph in front of them. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Learning how to choose your best work
I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! My mostly random thoughts - In theory that seems like a good idea, but by that point you've already picked out the images the viewers will see. Not to mention the cost to mount and frame and the time involved to sit and take notes. IMO you have to set a standard for your own work, based on the work of leaders in that field of photography, eliminate images that don't meet that standard, keep only your best work and seek as much input as you can get from any and all. I always ask those viewing my images what stands out to them when they say they like a image of mine. My most helpful critiques have been from those photogs whos work I value the most. YMMV Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Bruce Walker" Subject: OT - Learning how to choose your best work Moose Peterson discusses how to edit; ie: learning how to choose just your best work. I like his suggestion of getting work on a restaurant wall and then observing people's reactions to it. Could be a cringe-worthy exercise! http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2013/01/04/to-share-or-not-to-share/ -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
