Re: Punctuation
Op Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:32:23 +0200 schreef Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's interesting you should say that. As a native reader/speaker of English it is immediately obvious to me, but I believe another non-native speaker on this list once confessed to being baffled by the use of commas in English, and the way their particular placement can alter meaning. Do other non-native speakers find them difficult? I hadn't noticed until now, but I'm with Boris on this one... -- Regards, Lucas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re Punctuation
On Oct 27, 2006, at 4:50 AM, Joseph Tainter wrote: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Eats, Shoots Leaves is a book worth reading for those interested in punctuation. One of my favourite Simpsonisms is Lionel Hutz's business card with its suspicious printing error: Works on contingency No money down Works on contingency? No, money down! Oops, I shouldn't have the Bar Association logo here either. - Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
Shel Belinkoff wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel Great example! Thanks for posting that, Shel! -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
I can see the immediate merit of proper grammar and punctuation... But then of course the precise reason why that very comma was interpreted in that very way in the article you posted totally escapes me. Probably some commas should have been inserted in the previous message ;-). Thanks! On 10/26/06, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
True. IMO your paragraph should have read: Recently, a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email, message boards, and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re Punctuation
Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel - While I am not sure about the legal interpretation of the comma in that particular case at least in the english version of the contract it is trendy today to drop punctuation especially commas it drives me crazy as do the many many email posts that drop punctuation or are careless with it now we should return to discussing either jco or the swiss navy. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re Punctuation
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:50:30 +0100, Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...now we should return to discussing either jco or the swiss navy. JCO and the Swiss Navy. Both equally improbable. But both, apparently, exist. The truth is indeed stranger than fiction. John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
It makes them separate clauses. If it said, renewed for five years or ... it would make it a choice. As it reads it can only be ended after each five year period if a one year notice is given. A clearer way of saying it would have been, Will be automatically renewed for another five year period unless a written notice of non-renewal is given at least one year prior to end of the current contract. And we complain about $100 eBay communication problems grin Do not feel bad about your understanding of this, commas are used for many things in English, it is sometimes hard for even an English scholar to figure out just exactly how to use them. Sometimes, as in that contract, they are critically important, at others they are optional. A lot of people think you just use them where you would pause for a breath in speaking. However, that, is, not, a, good, rule, to, go, by, said Tom pantingly. -graywolf Boris Liberman wrote: I can see the immediate merit of proper grammar and punctuation... But then of course the precise reason why that very comma was interpreted in that very way in the article you posted totally escapes me. Probably some commas should have been inserted in the previous message ;-). Thanks! On 10/26/06, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
hey whats the big deal ee cummings did it years ago with his poetry and became known for it whts next a discushun ov fonetic speling im going bak to luk at snoflaks bwg oops r the nd kunsidrd punktooashun mitch Shel Belinkoff wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.427 / Virus Database: 268.13.12/499 - Release Date: 10/26/2006 10:00 AM -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
Hi! It makes them separate clauses. If it said, renewed for five years or ... it would make it a choice. As it reads it can only be ended after each five year period if a one year notice is given. A clearer way of saying it would have been, Will be automatically renewed for another five year period unless a written notice of non-renewal is given at least one year prior to end of the current contract. And we complain about $100 eBay communication problems grin Do not feel bad about your understanding of this, commas are used for many things in English, it is sometimes hard for even an English scholar to figure out just exactly how to use them. Sometimes, as in that contract, they are critically important, at others they are optional. A lot of people think you just use them where you would pause for a breath in speaking. However, that, is, not, a, good, rule, to, go, by, said Tom pantingly. Thanks. LOL. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
On Oct 26, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Excellent! A perfect example. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re Punctuation
On Oct 26, 2006, at 12:07 PM, John Forbes wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:50:30 +0100, Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...now we should return to discussing either jco or the swiss navy. JCO and the Swiss Navy. Both equally improbable. But both, apparently, exist. The truth is indeed stranger than fiction. John Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Mark Twain Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Punctuation
It's interesting you should say that. As a native reader/speaker of English it is immediately obvious to me, but I believe another non-native speaker on this list once confessed to being baffled by the use of commas in English, and the way their particular placement can alter meaning. Do other non-native speakers find them difficult? If you'd like me to explain this instance in the contract, please ask. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 26 October 2006 15:01 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Punctuation I can see the immediate merit of proper grammar and punctuation... But then of course the precise reason why that very comma was interpreted in that very way in the article you posted totally escapes me. Probably some commas should have been inserted in the previous message ;-). Thanks! On 10/26/06, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
On Oct 26, 2006, at 3:32 PM, Bob W wrote: It's interesting you should say that. As a native reader/speaker of English it is immediately obvious to me, but I believe another non-native speaker on this list once confessed to being baffled by the use of commas in English, and the way their particular placement can alter meaning. Do other non-native speakers find them difficult? I make most of my living from writing, yet I still find commas difficult at times. However, I am not a native English-speaker. I grew up in the USA. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Re Punctuation
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Forbes Sent: 26 October 2006 17:08 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Re Punctuation On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:50:30 +0100, Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...now we should return to discussing either jco or the swiss navy. JCO and the Swiss Navy. Both equally improbable. But both, apparently, exist. The truth is indeed stranger than fiction. John Do they sell Swiss Navy knives? Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re Punctuation
Bob Shell wrote: On Oct 26, 2006, at 12:07 PM, John Forbes wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:50:30 +0100, Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...now we should return to discussing either jco or the swiss navy. JCO and the Swiss Navy. Both equally improbable. But both, apparently, exist. The truth is indeed stranger than fiction. Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Mark Twain Sherlock Holmes once observed that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible. -- Dirk Gently -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re Punctuation
mike wilson wrote: http://www.thateden.co.uk/dirk/ Utterly useless. And brilliant! :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re Punctuation
Mark Roberts wrote: Bob Shell wrote: On Oct 26, 2006, at 12:07 PM, John Forbes wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:50:30 +0100, Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...now we should return to discussing either jco or the swiss navy. JCO and the Swiss Navy. Both equally improbable. But both, apparently, exist. The truth is indeed stranger than fiction. Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -- Mark Twain Sherlock Holmes once observed that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible. -- Dirk Gently http://www.thateden.co.uk/dirk/ openbracket Frames and Java comma Iapostrophem afraid full stop But worth it comma for once closebracket -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
On 10/26/06, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel I have Rogers cable and a pay as you go cell phone. I hate Rogers cable. Just venting Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Equine Photography in York Region -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Punctuation
I have Rogers cable and a pay as you go cell phone. Who do you use for the phone and are they any good. David J Brooks wrote: On 10/26/06, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently a few messages here discussed the value of using good punctuation and grammar in email messages. One of the participants made comments to the effect that communication via email and on message boards and mail lists was not important enough for him to take the time to add apostrophes and other forms proper punctuation. With that thought in mind, imagine finding a very good example of why it may be worthwhile to proof read your messages for clarity and intent. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6383383 Shel I have Rogers cable and a pay as you go cell phone. I hate Rogers cable. Just venting Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Equine Photography in York Region -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
