What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Mark Cassino]

With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental 
question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future Pentax (or 
Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me feel 
the opposite?

Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really 
distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with virtually 
all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them. (And 
even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital body.)

Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm 
pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange 
ergonomics of the Mz-S?

I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been to any 
brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in 
their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I respected 
them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key, 
conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you.

It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya 
capture that?

- MCC

-- 
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Adam Maas]

Small, light amateur oriented SLR's with innovative features, 
top-quality ergonomics and a dedication to unique, top-quality lenses.

-Adam


Mark Cassino wrote:
> With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental 
> question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future Pentax (or 
> Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me feel 
> the opposite?
> 
> Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really 
> distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with virtually 
> all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them. (And 
> even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital body.)
> 
> Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm 
> pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange 
> ergonomics of the Mz-S?
> 
> I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been to any 
> brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in 
> their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I respected 
> them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key, 
> conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you.
> 
> It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya 
> capture that?
> 
> - MCC
> 


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Mark Cassino wrote:

>
>
> It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya
> capture that?
>
I will be very surprised if Hoya even tampers with it. They have to  
see what's happening with the new products. They're not going to ruin  
a good thing. But they will be able to provide resources that Pentax  
lacks. I can't see anything but a win, win situation here.
Paul

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

Good answer.
On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:53 PM, Adam Maas wrote:

> Small, light amateur oriented SLR's with innovative features,
> top-quality ergonomics and a dedication to unique, top-quality lenses.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> Mark Cassino wrote:
>> With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental
>> question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future  
>> Pentax (or
>> Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me  
>> feel
>> the opposite?
>>
>> Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really
>> distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with  
>> virtually
>> all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them.  
>> (And
>> even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital  
>> body.)
>>
>> Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to  
>> ~40mm
>> pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The  
>> strange
>> ergonomics of the Mz-S?
>>
>> I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been  
>> to any
>> brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in
>> their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I  
>> respected
>> them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key,
>> conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you.
>>
>> It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya
>> capture that?
>>
>> - MCC
>>
>
>
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Cassino" 
Subject: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?


> > It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya 
> capture that?

It's the lenses. 
Always has been.
Hopefully, that won't change.

William Robb

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the  
cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I  
am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that,  
I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple.

Godfrey


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Boris Liberman]

Hi!

> It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya 
> capture that?

I once was told by someone or read somewhere that Pentax has a nickname 
of "Japanese Leica"... Pentax is unique by virtue of their lenses. 
Nothing can compare with old limiteds or star lenses.

Now, I think the way the DPReview press release is worded means actually 
that Pentax will cease to exist. It will become a part of very large 
entity and I am very much afraid that Pentax will loose its identity.

That is to say of course that I am not jumping ships or anything, 
because I have what I want and my cameras and lenses are still shooting 
very straight.

Boris


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[David Savage]

On 12/22/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark Cassino"
> Subject: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
>
>
> > > It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya
> > capture that?
>
> It's the lenses.
> Always has been.
> Hopefully, that won't change.
>
> William Robb

Ditto what WW said.

Dave

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RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Bob W]

the thing that made me buy my first Pentax, a new MX, in 1979 was that
it was small, very well made, at least as good as its rivals from
Olympus and Nikon, and much cheaper. Those are the distinguishing
factors for me. I don't think it's been true of Pentax for a very long
time, although it may be becoming more so with the release of the
K10D, which seems to be from the old mould.

The lenses from the pre-plastic era (ie the metal A lenses and
earlier) seem to me to have a more consistent look & feel than most of
the more modern lenses too. I find the current line up of lenses very
confusing. 

--
 Bob
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Mark Cassino
> Sent: 22 December 2006 01:07
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
> 
> With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental 
> question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future 
> Pentax (or 
> Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to 
> make me feel 
> the opposite?
> 
> Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really 
> distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility 
> with virtually 
> all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using 
> them. (And 
> even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a 
> digital body.)
> 
> Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The 
> devotion to ~40mm 
> pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? 
> The strange 
> ergonomics of the Mz-S?
> 
> I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever 
> been to any 
> brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in 
> their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I 
> respected 
> them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key, 
> conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you.
> 
> It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can
Hoya 
> capture that?
> 
> - MCC
> 
> -- 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Mark Cassino Photography
> Kalamazoo
> www.markcassino.com
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
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> 
> 


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 21/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the  
>cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I  
>am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that,  
>I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple.

Your a hard man Godders ;-)

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 22/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

>the thing that made me buy my first Pentax, a new MX, in 1979 was that
>it was small, very well made, at least as good as its rivals from
>Olympus and Nikon, and much cheaper. Those are the distinguishing
>factors for me. I don't think it's been true of Pentax for a very long
>time, although it may be becoming more so with the release of the
>K10D, which seems to be from the old mould.

Very similar time frame and thought. 1980 for me.

>
>The lenses from the pre-plastic era (ie the metal A lenses and
>earlier) seem to me to have a more consistent look & feel than most of
>the more modern lenses too. I find the current line up of lenses very
>confusing.

I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do not want plastic
lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I don't associate
more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax and Canon lenses (and
cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer than I will. Just the
way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the gear.

As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me, although we do have an
*ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a small underdog being
merged with another company if for nothing other than it eventually
moulds itself into something else, no matter how much reassurance is
given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the Pentax brand will
continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a few years, probably
much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over, the core people who
made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the names) will slowly
and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint people to take the
company in the direction it wants to go (I have personal experience with
such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with what the fans want.
It may mean much better things in terms of research and development of
new products [from the Imaging section] and so you will probably see
better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene - probably even 'full
frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma that current Pentax
cameras have.

Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of today is a far cry
from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next generation. On the
whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be pleased - the gear
will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless outweigh
expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for anyone that likes
good quality photographic equipment decently priced with excellent pedigree.

Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax!

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Colin J]

Mark Cassino wrote:

>Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm 
>pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange 
>ergonomics of the Mz-S?
>
>It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya 
>capture that?



What makes Pentax - Pentax?  It is very simple!  

It is the lenses, with a superb combination of sharpness and smooth rendition 
of out-of-focus areas.  It is the bodies, with a superb combination of features 
and, above all, excellent handling.  And it is value for money, because just 
about every Pentax product sells at a price that ensures it will be a good 
value.

So lenses, features, handling and value are what makes Pentax - Pentax, for me.

Can Hoya capture that?  Well, Hoya's Tokina subsidiary makes some excellent 
lenses, including several of the new Pentax range.  Hoya sure makes a lot of 
top quality glass.  

So I think Pentax is in very safe hands.  Happy holidays.

Colin






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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Stan Halpin]

On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:34 AM, Cotty wrote:

>  - the gear will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless 
> outweigh
> expectations. ...
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
That is obviously a concern for those who have appreciated the emphasis 
on small lightwieght gear; they are afraid that the new generation gear 
will "outweigh" their expectations!

In terms of handling, look and feel, etc. (not optics) I am totally 
underwhelmed by all F and FA series lenses except for the FA* and 
Limiteds. I hope they continue to produce functional cameras and lenses 
that are like the Km M, A, and Limited lenses. Gear aimed to the user, 
not to the mass market impulse buyer.

Stan


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RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[J. C. O'Connell]

I dont know how you guys cant like the "A" lenses either.
They are plastic for the most part too, have terrible "feel"
compared to the earlier K/M and screw lenses. They also have a 
far more common "problem rate" with the focus mechanisms
than any of the eariler lenses. I dont like the "A" series
lenses for this reason. I dont have a lot of exerinece with
the F series and later lenses,but I can tell you for sure
that the "A" series was and is a definate drop off in quality
mechanically for Pentax, and that's one of the reasons I
am/was an ardant defender of the need for the aperture cam
sensor return to Pentax bodies. I dont want to use "A" lenses.
I would much rather use the more refined K/M lenses & if they
were fully supported, the only features they would lack compared
to "A" would be very minor compared to the features they
currently lack on the current Pentax DSLR bodies.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Cotty
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:35 AM
To: pentax list
Subject: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?


On 22/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

>the thing that made me buy my first Pentax, a new MX, in 1979 was that 
>it was small, very well made, at least as good as its rivals from 
>Olympus and Nikon, and much cheaper. Those are the distinguishing 
>factors for me. I don't think it's been true of Pentax for a very long 
>time, although it may be becoming more so with the release of the K10D,

>which seems to be from the old mould.

Very similar time frame and thought. 1980 for me.

>
>The lenses from the pre-plastic era (ie the metal A lenses and
>earlier) seem to me to have a more consistent look & feel than most of 
>the more modern lenses too. I find the current line up of lenses very 
>confusing.

I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do not want plastic
lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I don't associate
more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax and Canon lenses (and
cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer than I will. Just the
way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the gear.

As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me, although we do have an
*ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a small underdog being
merged with another company if for nothing other than it eventually
moulds itself into something else, no matter how much reassurance is
given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the Pentax brand will
continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a few years, probably
much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over, the core people who
made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the names) will slowly
and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint people to take the
company in the direction it wants to go (I have personal experience with
such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with what the fans want.
It may mean much better things in terms of research and development of
new products [from the Imaging section] and so you will probably see
better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene - probably even 'full
frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma that current Pentax
cameras have.

Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of today is a far cry
from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next generation. On the
whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be pleased - the gear
will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless outweigh
expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for anyone that likes
good quality photographic equipment decently priced with excellent
pedigree.

Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax!

-- 


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  Cotty


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[David Savage]

Sorry John, I ain't touching that one.

Cheers,

Dave

On 12/22/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I dont know how you guys cant like the "A" lenses either.
> They are plastic for the most part too, have terrible "feel"
> compared to the earlier K/M and screw lenses. They also have a
> far more common "problem rate" with the focus mechanisms
> than any of the eariler lenses. I dont like the "A" series
> lenses for this reason. I dont have a lot of exerinece with
> the F series and later lenses,but I can tell you for sure
> that the "A" series was and is a definate drop off in quality
> mechanically for Pentax, and that's one of the reasons I
> am/was an ardant defender of the need for the aperture cam
> sensor return to Pentax bodies. I dont want to use "A" lenses.
> I would much rather use the more refined K/M lenses & if they
> were fully supported, the only features they would lack compared
> to "A" would be very minor compared to the features they
> currently lack on the current Pentax DSLR bodies.
> jco

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 22, 2006, at 1:12 AM, Cotty wrote:

>> I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the
>> cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I
>> am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that,
>> I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple.
>
> Your a hard man Godders ;-)

Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important  
than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are  
the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came  
out of other than an equipment buff.

Godfrey

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/12/22 Fri PM 02:57:23 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
> 
> On Dec 22, 2006, at 1:12 AM, Cotty wrote:
> 
> >> I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the
> >> cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I
> >> am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that,
> >> I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple.
> >
> > Your a hard man Godders ;-)
> 
> Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important  
> than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are  
> the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came  
> out of other than an equipment buff.

You say that as if being an equipment buff is a bad thing,  Yet doesn't 
"working the way you like" make you an equipment buff?
;-)


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RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Markus Maurer]

But as far as I have seen reported on this list very few buy a Samsung DSLR?
Would they if the price difference to the Pentax "twin" would be maybe 20%
or more or do they simple want the Pentax logo for any (sentimental) reason
despite the cost ?
greetings
Markus


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Godfrey DiGiorgi
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:40 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?


I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the
cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I
am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that,
I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple.

Godfrey


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I don't buy Samsung brand equipment because as far as I can determine  
their customer service in the US is virtually non-existent with  
respect to the photographic market. in that regard, Nikon/Canon/Leica/ 
Pentax/Olympus/Hasselblad are the strongest brands I've worked with.

Godfrey


On Dec 22, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Markus Maurer wrote:

> But as far as I have seen reported on this list very few buy a  
> Samsung DSLR?
> Would they if the price difference to the Pentax "twin" would be  
> maybe 20%
> or more or do they simple want the Pentax logo for any  
> (sentimental) reason
> despite the cost ?
>
>> I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the
>> cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I
>> am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that,
>> I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple.


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Alexandru-Cristian Sarbu]

On 12/22/06, Markus Maurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But as far as I have seen reported on this list very few buy a Samsung DSLR?
> Would they if the price difference to the Pentax "twin" would be maybe 20%
> or more or do they simple want the Pentax logo for any (sentimental) reason
> despite the cost ?
> greetings
> Markus

Have you ever heard about Samsung DSLR firmware upgrades? I didn't.
But the main reason for me is sentimental :)

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[K.Takeshita]

On 12/22/06 9:57 AM, "Godfrey DiGiorgi", <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important
> than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are
> the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came
> out of other than an equipment buff.

You are not the only one who thinks that way, if they ever are seriously
into photography as hobby or money making.  But there are many different
ways to enjoy it.  If taking picture is the only way to do so, you might be
missing out something :-).

Ken


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Rick Womer]

Well said, Cotty!

(I suspect, BTW, that this post is longer than all of
your other 2006 posts combined!)

Merry (or Happy, in British!) Christmas!

Rick

--- Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, with
uncharacteristic volubility:

> I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do
> not want plastic
> lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I
> don't associate
> more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax
> and Canon lenses (and
> cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer
> than I will. Just the
> way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the
> gear.
> 
> As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me,
> although we do have an
> *ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a
> small underdog being
> merged with another company if for nothing other
> than it eventually
> moulds itself into something else, no matter how
> much reassurance is
> given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the
> Pentax brand will
> continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a
> few years, probably
> much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over,
> the core people who
> made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the
> names) will slowly
> and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint
> people to take the
> company in the direction it wants to go (I have
> personal experience with
> such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with
> what the fans want.
> It may mean much better things in terms of research
> and development of
> new products [from the Imaging section] and so you
> will probably see
> better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene -
> probably even 'full
> frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma
> that current Pentax
> cameras have.
> 
> Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of
> today is a far cry
> from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next
> generation. On the
> whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be
> pleased - the gear
> will still be there and future incarnations will
> doubtless outweigh
> expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for
> anyone that likes
> good quality photographic equipment decently priced
> with excellent pedigree.
> 
> Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax!
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__
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> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
> 
> 
> 
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RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Tom C]

The name stamped on the camera body and lenses.

Since none of us can tell simply by looking at a photograph, what camera 
model and what lens model it was taken with, and there are literally 
millions of very nice photos taken with other brands, the above is what 
makes a Pentax.

That and it was in "A Hard Day's Night".

Tom C.



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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 22, 2006, at 7:01 AM, mike wilson wrote:
>> Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important
>> than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are
>> the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came
>> out of other than an equipment buff.
>
> You say that as if being an equipment buff is a bad thing,  Yet  
> doesn't "working the way you like" make you an equipment buff?
> ;-)

No. An equipment buff enjoys the equipment for its own sake. There's  
nothing wrong with that but it's not "photography", which is my  
interest.

I buy the equipment for the sake of making photographs and want the  
equipment to work the way I need it to for that purpose. I do enjoy  
using good equipment too, but that's a secondary result of it making  
the photographs I want.

G



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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 22/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I buy the equipment for the sake of making photographs and want the  
>equipment to work the way I need it to for that purpose. I do enjoy  
>using good equipment too, but that's a secondary result of it making  
>the photographs I want.

Okay, I'll pipe up here.

The way I see it, it's an organic merger of the two things - wanting to
do nothing but take good pictures, and wanting to do nothing but play
with cameras. I have no regrets saying that I'm just as happy fondling
the kit as I am out making pics. I love all the paraphernalia associated
with good photography equipment - both still and moving. I'm not ashamed
to say that I also sleep with the odd lens.

JOKE. But yeah, I like my gear and I don't mind being called a nutter
for giving inanimate objects names and such. It's all a bit of fun :-)

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Alexandru-Cristian Sarbu]

On 12/22/06, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> JOKE. But yeah, I like my gear and I don't mind being called a nutter
> for giving inanimate objects names and such. It's all a bit of fun :-)
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>

I think I'll call the K10D Woody Woodpecker. Just engage the DR system
and you'll know why 

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Boris Liberman]

Hi!

For some reason I missed that post from Cotty. Anyway, I should say that 
Cotty has his way with words. I should say that I feel exactly the same, 
up to the wording of course.

Thanks, Cotty, you're quite right I think.

Boris


> --- Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, with
> uncharacteristic volubility:
> 
>> I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do
>> not want plastic
>> lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I
>> don't associate
>> more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax
>> and Canon lenses (and
>> cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer
>> than I will. Just the
>> way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the
>> gear.
>>
>> As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me,
>> although we do have an
>> *ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a
>> small underdog being
>> merged with another company if for nothing other
>> than it eventually
>> moulds itself into something else, no matter how
>> much reassurance is
>> given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the
>> Pentax brand will
>> continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a
>> few years, probably
>> much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over,
>> the core people who
>> made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the
>> names) will slowly
>> and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint
>> people to take the
>> company in the direction it wants to go (I have
>> personal experience with
>> such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with
>> what the fans want.
>> It may mean much better things in terms of research
>> and development of
>> new products [from the Imaging section] and so you
>> will probably see
>> better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene -
>> probably even 'full
>> frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma
>> that current Pentax
>> cameras have.
>>
>> Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of
>> today is a far cry
>> from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next
>> generation. On the
>> whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be
>> pleased - the gear
>> will still be there and future incarnations will
>> doubtless outweigh
>> expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for
>> anyone that likes
>> good quality photographic equipment decently priced
>> with excellent pedigree.
>>
>> Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax!
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>   Cotty
>>
>>
>> ___/\__
>> ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
>> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
>> _
>>
>>
>>
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> 
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Peter Fairweather]

Mark

The answer to your question is the lenses.

In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to
see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame
5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a
Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with
worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price
of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was
indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4
was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The
24 2.8 was OK at best and so on

Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end.
I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting
them to Canon.

Has anyone ever tried that? ;> ;>

Peter

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Adam Maas]

Peter Fairweather wrote:
> Mark
> 
> The answer to your question is the lenses.
> 
> In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to
> see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame
> 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a
> Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with
> worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price
> of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was
> indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4
> was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The
> 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on
> 
> Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end.
> I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting
> them to Canon.
> 
> Has anyone ever tried that? ;> ;>
> 
> Peter
> 

It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 
15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is 
selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever 
off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears 
the mirror on EF-S bodies).

Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica 
wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica and M42 
adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a Canon 
film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an extensve 
Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF)

-Adam

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[John Celio]

> That and it was in "A Hard Day's Night".

Which brings to mind a question that has been bothering me for years:

What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's 
Night?

I've asked dozens of people, but no one has provided a satisfactory answer. 
Anyone here know?

John

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 22, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Cotty wrote:

> The way I see it, it's an organic merger of the two things -  
> wanting to
> do nothing but take good pictures, and wanting to do nothing but play
> with cameras. I have no regrets saying that I'm just as happy fondling
> the kit as I am out making pics. I love all the paraphernalia  
> associated
> with good photography equipment - both still and moving. I'm not  
> ashamed
> to say that I also sleep with the odd lens.

Um, I wonder what Alma thinks when she rubs up against something  
hard, thick and round at night ... No, you don't have to answer  
that.  ;-) ]'-)

Good equipment can inspire me too (although not quite to the  
direction of sleeping with it) ... witness the fun I'm having using  
the Pentax 645 kit occasionally right now ... and all the  
paraphernalia is pretty neat when it does what you want it to. I  
don't enjoy it much just for itself, but thinking about it gives me  
pause to consider how I might put it to use.

Godfrey





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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Mark Roberts]

John Celio wrote:

>> That and it was in "A Hard Day's Night".
>
>Which brings to mind a question that has been bothering me for years:
>
>What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's 
>Night?

Pentax H3
I'm pretty sure he was using a 135mm lens at one point but I have no 
idea which 135 it might be. Can't remember for certain if he had a 50mm 
on it at one point.

BTW: I saw A Hard Day's Night in the theater the summer before last. 
It's a very good film and a lot of fun, too.


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 22/12/06, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed:

>For some reason I missed that post from Cotty. Anyway, I should say that 
>Cotty has his way with words. I should say that I feel exactly the same, 
>up to the wording of course.
>
>Thanks, Cotty, you're quite right I think.

I'll take that as a compliment. Actually I'll take anything I can
get ;-) Shalom!

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 22/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Good equipment can inspire me too (although not quite to the  
>direction of sleeping with it) ... witness the fun I'm having using  
>the Pentax 645 kit occasionally right now ... and all the  
>paraphernalia is pretty neat when it does what you want it to. I  
>don't enjoy it much just for itself, but thinking about it gives me  
>pause to consider how I might put it to use.

See, you are human after all ;-)))

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 22/12/06, Adam Maas, discombobulated, unleashed:

>It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 
>15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is 
>selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever 
>off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears 
>the mirror on EF-S bodies).

With an intro like that who needs Ed McMahon?

Here ya go...



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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 22/12/06, Peter Fairweather, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end.
>I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting
>them to Canon.
>
>Has anyone ever tried that? ;> ;>

Not to my knowledge.

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 22/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Um, I wonder what Alma thinks when she rubs up against something  
>hard, thick and round at night ... No, you don't have to answer  
>that.  ;-) ]'-)

That's the dead cat I keep as a backup.

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[John Celio]

>>What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's
>>Night?
>
> Pentax H3
> I'm pretty sure he was using a 135mm lens at one point but I have no
> idea which 135 it might be. Can't remember for certain if he had a 50mm
> on it at one point.

I don't recall the lens being all that big.  Are you sure it was a 135?  I 
always figured it was a 50mm of some sort, especially since they're so much 
more common.

> BTW: I saw A Hard Day's Night in the theater the summer before last.
> It's a very good film and a lot of fun, too.

I too saw it in the theater, though it was at least five years ago, when it 
was remastered (or something like that) and released to a small number of 
theaters around the country.  I've loved that movie since I was little, when 
my dad first showed it to my brothers and I ("I know your caper!" became a 
catchphrase in my family).  The theater I saw it in was even an 
old-fashioned, very ornate, single-screen venue, which my dad said was a lot 
like the theaters he went to as a kid.  It was like being in a time-machine. 
:)

John

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[graywolf]

At first I thought, "Wow, the same camera I had". Then I though, "That 
is just plain silly". "What would Ringo be doing with a Honeywell Pentax 
sold only in america?"  Besides that I think the H3 was pre-Beatles. I 
do know that at one time they all had Spotmatics, but I am not sure just 
which version. If he had an European version of an H3 it would have been 
a S3.

OK just looked it up, the movie was released in 64, so S3 or S3a is most 
likely.



Mark Roberts wrote:
> John Celio wrote:
> 
>>> That and it was in "A Hard Day's Night".
>> Which brings to mind a question that has been bothering me for years:
>>
>> What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's 
>> Night?
> 
> Pentax H3
> I'm pretty sure he was using a 135mm lens at one point but I have no 
> idea which 135 it might be. Can't remember for certain if he had a 50mm 
> on it at one point.
> 
> BTW: I saw A Hard Day's Night in the theater the summer before last. 
> It's a very good film and a lot of fun, too.
> 
> 

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote:

> See, you are human after all ;-)))

Or I put up a good simulation. ;-)

G


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Mark Cassino]

Peter Fairweather wrote:
> Mark
> 
> The answer to your question is the lenses.

I agree with you on the lenses, more or less. Thanks for the interesting 
feedback about your Canon lens experience. Pentax lenses are a bit of a 
mixed bag - they once had a really complete line up of high end to 
everyday lenses, but there's been no real updating to the high end 
models (like HSM for big telephotos (600 f4, 400 f2.8)). Now the line up 
is a bit spotty. The backwards compatibility that Pentax has stuck with 
is a major plus - but a lot of older lenses have issues with chromatic 
aberration on digital bodies.

Pentax body's a well designed and feature rich, IMO, especially when 
compared to similar price points for the other brands.

For me, the combination of backwards compatibility, a recently full line 
up of lenses (fortunately all available when I was building my 
collection) and premium / specialty lenses like the Limited Series 
distinguish Pentax from the crowd.

The medium format offerings also distinguish Pentax from Canon, Nikon, 
and Minolta.

- MCC

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

To Pentax's credit we should point out that the FA 600/4 is still  
available by special order. I don't know about the 400/2.8. I think  
we'll see more long glass in the future. Right now, they're trying to  
fill in the midrange with new DA lenses.
Paul
On Dec 22, 2006, at 9:42 PM, Mark Cassino wrote:

> Peter Fairweather wrote:
>> Mark
>>
>> The answer to your question is the lenses.
>
> I agree with you on the lenses, more or less. Thanks for the  
> interesting
> feedback about your Canon lens experience. Pentax lenses are a bit  
> of a
> mixed bag - they once had a really complete line up of high end to
> everyday lenses, but there's been no real updating to the high end
> models (like HSM for big telephotos (600 f4, 400 f2.8)). Now the  
> line up
> is a bit spotty. The backwards compatibility that Pentax has stuck  
> with
> is a major plus - but a lot of older lenses have issues with chromatic
> aberration on digital bodies.
>
> Pentax body's a well designed and feature rich, IMO, especially when
> compared to similar price points for the other brands.
>
> For me, the combination of backwards compatibility, a recently full  
> line
> up of lenses (fortunately all available when I was building my
> collection) and premium / specialty lenses like the Limited Series
> distinguish Pentax from the crowd.
>
> The medium format offerings also distinguish Pentax from Canon, Nikon,
> and Minolta.
>
> - MCC
>
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[P. J. Alling]

I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable 
products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format lines 
will disappear quickly.  They just don't sell enough units.  Maybe there 
will be a FF (24x36mm) or 1.3x crop DSLR using the "crippled" K mount 
and the 645D may be introduced if it's far enough along, but will be 
discontinued, quickly, if sales don't meet expectations.  Let's face it 
Pentax only kept the SLR business because their corporate image required 
it.  What does Hoya care?   The Pentax SLR isn't their image, they want 
the medical products business.

Paul Stenquist wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Mark Cassino wrote:
>
>   
>> It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya
>> capture that?
>>
>> 
> I will be very surprised if Hoya even tampers with it. They have to  
> see what's happening with the new products. They're not going to ruin  
> a good thing. But they will be able to provide resources that Pentax  
> lacks. I can't see anything but a win, win situation here.
> Paul
>
>   


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Bob Shell]

On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

> I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable
> products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format lines
> will disappear quickly.

I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the  
medium format film products.

Bob

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

Pure conjecture. Needless worry. Wait until something bad happens,  
then worry. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying my camera, and I will for quite a  
few years to come.
Paul
On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

> I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable
> products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format lines
> will disappear quickly.  They just don't sell enough units.  Maybe  
> there
> will be a FF (24x36mm) or 1.3x crop DSLR using the "crippled" K mount
> and the 645D may be introduced if it's far enough along, but will be
> discontinued, quickly, if sales don't meet expectations.  Let's  
> face it
> Pentax only kept the SLR business because their corporate image  
> required
> it.  What does Hoya care?   The Pentax SLR isn't their image, they  
> want
> the medical products business.
>
> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Mark Cassino wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can  
>>> Hoya
>>> capture that?
>>>
>>>
>> I will be very surprised if Hoya even tampers with it. They have to
>> see what's happening with the new products. They're not going to ruin
>> a good thing. But they will be able to provide resources that Pentax
>> lacks. I can't see anything but a win, win situation here.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.
>   --Albert Einstein
>
>
>
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

They did announce that MF film products have been discontinued. Only  
existing stock is still available. Hoya has supported the Tokina  
brand in full and quite invisibly. I doubt that anyone here even knew  
Hoya owned Tokana until just the other day. I expect that they will  
support the Pentax brand in full and invisibly. And until there's  
some real reason for worry, I suggest that we all take it easy. Life  
is good.
Paul
On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Bob Shell wrote:

>
> On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>
>> I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable
>> products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format lines
>> will disappear quickly.
>
> I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the
> medium format film products.
>
> Bob
>
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

I would have expected you to know, Bob, since you cover the biz. But  
my point was that Tokina is still Tokina. Hoya hasn't disassembled  
them or trashed their product line.
Paul
On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Bob Shell wrote:

>
> On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>
>> I doubt that anyone here even knew
>> Hoya owned Tokana until just the other day.
>
> I've known it since the acquisition.  There was never any secrecy
> about it.  Hoya took over Kenko at about the same time.  Press
> releases went out about these deals, and I'm sure some of the photo
> publications mentioned this.
>
> Bob
>
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Bob Shell]

On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> I doubt that anyone here even knew
> Hoya owned Tokana until just the other day.

I've known it since the acquisition.  There was never any secrecy  
about it.  Hoya took over Kenko at about the same time.  Press  
releases went out about these deals, and I'm sure some of the photo  
publications mentioned this.

Bob

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[K.Takeshita]

On 12/23/06 4:20 PM, "Bob Shell", <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> I would have expected you to know, Bob, since you cover the biz. But
>> my point was that Tokina is still Tokina. Hoya hasn't disassembled
>> them or trashed their product line.
> 
> Right.  Just the reverse, in fact, since they've improved Tokina
> quality.

I think Tokina is a grandchild when their parent, Kenko became Hoya's
subsidiary.
Hoya is now emphasizing "vertical integration" which might actually work
;-).

Ken


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Bob Shell]

On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> I would have expected you to know, Bob, since you cover the biz. But
> my point was that Tokina is still Tokina. Hoya hasn't disassembled
> them or trashed their product line.

Right.  Just the reverse, in fact, since they've improved Tokina  
quality.

Bob

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 23, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Bob Shell wrote:

>> I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable
>> products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format lines
>> will disappear quickly.
>
> I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the
> medium format film products.

Yes, that was my understanding as well.

G


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RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Jens Bladt]

Excellent question, although the same question can be asked concerning any
other super brands - like Ferrari, Gucci, Porsche, Harley Davidson etc.
Perhaps Pentax is not really a super brand (a brand for which people are
prepared to pay an over price, because of the prestige etc.). But Pentax IS
a widely well known and respected brand.
When a company like Pentax merges with another company or buys it (like
Imacon/Hasselblad, Konica/Minolta, Volvo/Ford etc.) it just means they are
trying to make a reasonable sound business decision. Naturally, Pentax had
to consider if this would damage the company reputation or not. And of
course weather it wouild be profitable or not. The answer to the latter is
obvious - Pentax must have considered this carefully, I'm sure. I don't know
about the first question, but I guess HOYA is largely regarded as a company
marketing excellent photographic filters for consumers as well as pro's.

In the sixties-seventies Pentax WAS a super brand. The Spotmatics were a
huge success. At that time Pentax sold more cameras than Nikon and Canon put
together.
Those days ar long gone.

At first Nikon took a leading role. Roomers say that Nikon gave away cameras
to journalist all over the world - in the sixties - making marketing a major
issue. And they did of course develop nice cameras and excellent lenses as
well. Canon took a leading role at the time the Canon EOS 1v was introduced.
It was faster (AF) than any other camera. Almost every sports journalist in
the world bought one.

Since the sixties Pentax has:
1) Lived on utilizing the Spotmatic aera fame.
2) Marketed userfreindly, affordable cameras, without really competing with
the major players; Nikon and Canon, in the pro market section.
3) Sold LOADS of high end P&S and consumer cameras.
4) From time to time released (almost) pro-speced/enthusiast SLR cameras
like the LX, PZ1, *ist D
5) From time to time released excellent (pro-speced) glass (like the F
1.4/50mm, A* 1.4 85mm, FA 2.8 80-200mm, FA 2.8 300mm, FA 31mm, FA f77mm and
others)
6) Kept on releasing less excellent, but still useable lenses for the
consumer market (F 4-5.6 35-80mm for 4x6" prints for the family album).
7) Released pro-speced, excellent Medium Format cameras (6x7 and 645).

Pentax is targeting the consumer and enthusiasts markets as the number one
priority (that's where the money is, they seem to think).
And Pentax is from time to time competing successfully in the segment of
consumer/enthusiast cameras (DS/K100D/K10D), but without trying to compete
in the pro market segment (Full Frame, 8 FPS, Huge amount of F.2.8 zooms,
fast AF, latest technology for computerized control of cameras and images.
color profiles etc).

Pentax is "high end, userfriendly consumer and enthusiast cameras"  - and
(from time to time) "excellent or superior glass and camera features".

I don't see any signs of changes in this policy.
And hey, doesn't Hoya fit this policy like a glove?

Regards
Jens




Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Mark
Cassino
Sendt: 22. december 2006 02:07
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?


With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental
question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future Pentax (or
Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me feel
the opposite?

Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really
distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with virtually
all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them. (And
even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital body.)

Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm
pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange
ergonomics of the Mz-S?

I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been to any
brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in
their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I respected
them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key,
conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you.

It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya
capture that?

- MCC

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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 23/12/06, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Wait until something bad happens,  
>then worry.

What part of that is difficult to understand?  ;-))

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[P. J. Alling]

Noo. Not another Cotty !

Peter Fairweather wrote:
> Mark
>
> The answer to your question is the lenses.
>
> In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to
> see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame
> 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a
> Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with
> worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price
> of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was
> indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4
> was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The
> 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on
>
> Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end.
> I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting
> them to Canon.
>
> Has anyone ever tried that? ;> ;>
>
> Peter
>
>   


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 23/12/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Noo. Not another Cotty !

Better start buying Dremel stock ;-)

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[P. J. Alling]

I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find forgivable 
as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday...

Adam Maas wrote:
> Peter Fairweather wrote:
>   
>> Mark
>>
>> The answer to your question is the lenses.
>>
>> In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to
>> see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame
>> 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a
>> Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with
>> worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price
>> of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was
>> indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4
>> was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The
>> 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on
>>
>> Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end.
>> I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting
>> them to Canon.
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried that? ;> ;>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> 
>
> It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 
> 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is 
> selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever 
> off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears 
> the mirror on EF-S bodies).
>
> Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica 
> wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica and M42 
> adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a Canon 
> film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an extensve 
> Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF)
>
> -Adam
>
>   


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Cotty]

On 23/12/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find forgivable 
>as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday...

It's by pure chance I hacked the K15. It could just have easily been the
A15. I'll see if I can dig out some pics of the operation

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Bob Shell]

On Dec 23, 2006, at 4:30 PM, Jens Bladt wrote:

> I'm sure. I don't know
> about the first question, but I guess HOYA is largely regarded as a  
> company
> marketing excellent photographic filters for consumers as well as  
> pro's.

Hoya today is a major player in the semiconductor equipment business,  
makes hard drive platters and heads, and a wide variety of products  
having nothing to do with optics.  See:

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/sep2005/ 
pi20050912_6558_pi044.htm

Also see this link for a list of Hoya subsidiary companies:

http://www.hoya.co.jp/CACHE/english/group_content_group5.cfm

And this one for USA optical glass:

http://www.hoyaoptics.com/specialty_glass/optical.htm

We're talking about a large and diversified company, one small part  
of which deals with optics, and Pentax will become a small part of that.

Bob



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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

There are both K and A versions of the 15/3.5. In fact, i believe  
there are two different K versions.
paul
On Dec 23, 2006, at 5:40 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

> I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find  
> forgivable
> as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday...
>
> Adam Maas wrote:
>> Peter Fairweather wrote:
>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> The answer to your question is the lenses.
>>>
>>> In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens  
>>> reviews to
>>> see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame
>>> 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a
>>> Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom  
>>> with
>>> worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the  
>>> price
>>> of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was
>>> indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the  
>>> 24 1.4
>>> was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The
>>> 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on
>>>
>>> Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide  
>>> end.
>>> I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and  
>>> converting
>>> them to Canon.
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever tried that? ;> ;>
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to  
>> an A
>> 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that  
>> Cameraquest is
>> selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever
>> off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever  
>> clears
>> the mirror on EF-S bodies).
>>
>> Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica
>> wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica  
>> and M42
>> adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a  
>> Canon
>> film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an  
>> extensve
>> Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF)
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.
>   --Albert Einstein
>
>
>
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[P. J. Alling]

Right now they're disappearing slowly, and the 645D will be replacing 
the 645, big corporations have no use for such sentiment, only profits.

Bob Shell wrote:
> On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>
>   
>> I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable
>> products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format lines
>> will disappear quickly.
>> 
>
> I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the  
> medium format film products.
>
> Bob
>
>   


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[P. J. Alling]

I know that, but was commenting on the fact that it was a K version not 
the A that Cotty mutilated to force into an unholy mating to his 
darkside spawned infernal photographic device.

Paul Stenquist wrote:
> There are both K and A versions of the 15/3.5. In fact, i believe  
> there are two different K versions.
> paul
> On Dec 23, 2006, at 5:40 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>
>   
>> I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find  
>> forgivable
>> as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday...
>>
>> Adam Maas wrote:
>> 
>>> Peter Fairweather wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Mark

 The answer to your question is the lenses.

 In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens  
 reviews to
 see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame
 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a
 Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom  
 with
 worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the  
 price
 of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was
 indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the  
 24 1.4
 was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The
 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on

 Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide  
 end.
 I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and  
 converting
 them to Canon.

 Has anyone ever tried that? ;> ;>

 Peter


 
>>> It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to  
>>> an A
>>> 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that  
>>> Cameraquest is
>>> selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever
>>> off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever  
>>> clears
>>> the mirror on EF-S bodies).
>>>
>>> Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica
>>> wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica  
>>> and M42
>>> adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a  
>>> Canon
>>> film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an  
>>> extensve
>>> Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF)
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> -- 
>> Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.
>>  --Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
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>> 
>
>
>   


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Paul Stenquist]

No corporation, big or small has use for sentiment. You can be sure  
that all Pentax decisions were motivated by profit potential, as they  
will continue to be. Not to worry.
Paul
On Dec 23, 2006, at 7:42 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

> Right now they're disappearing slowly, and the 645D will be replacing
> the 645, big corporations have no use for such sentiment, only  
> profits.
>
> Bob Shell wrote:
>> On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable
>>> products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format  
>>> lines
>>> will disappear quickly.
>>>
>>
>> I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the
>> medium format film products.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.
>   --Albert Einstein
>
>
>
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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[P. J. Alling]

Small corporations are a bit different, Pentax showed all the hallmarks 
of being a small corporation.  Their image was tied up in their SLR 
heritage.  They used it instead of advertising.  Pentax was less likely 
to dispense with their camera business because of that image, they held 
onto it during lean times waiting them out.  Hoya will do what Konica 
did with their photo division much more readily.  If it makes money 
nothing much will change.

Paul Stenquist wrote:
> No corporation, big or small has use for sentiment. You can be sure  
> that all Pentax decisions were motivated by profit potential, as they  
> will continue to be. Not to worry.
> Paul
> On Dec 23, 2006, at 7:42 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>
>   
>> Right now they're disappearing slowly, and the 645D will be replacing
>> the 645, big corporations have no use for such sentiment, only  
>> profits.
>>
>> Bob Shell wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable
 products to be discontinued.  That means that the medium format  
 lines
 will disappear quickly.

 
>>> I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the
>>> medium format film products.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> -- 
>> Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.
>>  --Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> 
>
>
>   


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RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Jens Bladt]

Actually we do.
Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy:
Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made Pentax
(the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If
they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax.

Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as long
as) we treat him like a king :-)

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Godfrey
DiGiorgi
Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?



On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote:

> See, you are human after all ;-)))

Or I put up a good simulation. ;-)

G


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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[David Savage]

Huh?

Dave

On 12/31/06, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually we do.
> Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy:
> Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made Pentax
> (the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If
> they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax.
>
> Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as long
> as) we treat him like a king :-)
>
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Godfrey
> DiGiorgi
> Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
>
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote:
>
> > See, you are human after all ;-)))
>
> Or I put up a good simulation. ;-)
>
> G

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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[John Forbes]

I think Jens means that we, the users, make a Pentax a Pentax.  We buy  
what we like, and not what we don't.  The fact that Pentax is still in  
business means that they are producing what we like (more or less).

John

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:19:58 -, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

> Huh?
>
> Dave
>
> On 12/31/06, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Actually we do.
>> Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy:
>> Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made  
>> Pentax
>> (the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If
>> they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax.
>>
>> Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as  
>> long
>> as) we treat him like a king :-)
>>
>> Jens Bladt
>> http://www.jensbladt.dk
>> +45 56 63 77 11
>> +45 23 43 85 77
>> Skype: jensbladt248
>>
>> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
>> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af  
>> Godfrey
>> DiGiorgi
>> Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41
>> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote:
>>
>> > See, you are human after all ;-)))
>>
>> Or I put up a good simulation. ;-)
>>
>> G
>



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RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[Jens Bladt]

Exactly, John!

And you are right - even the opposite is true, to some extend:
People who do not buy Pentax are guilty of NOT giving Pentax greater
incentives for further developments etc. :-)

Regards

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John
Forbes
Sendt: 1. januar 2007 12:26
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?


I think Jens means that we, the users, make a Pentax a Pentax.  We buy
what we like, and not what we don't.  The fact that Pentax is still in
business means that they are producing what we like (more or less).

John

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:19:58 -, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Huh?
>
> Dave
>
> On 12/31/06, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Actually we do.
>> Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy:
>> Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made
>> Pentax
>> (the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If
>> they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax.
>>
>> Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as
>> long
>> as) we treat him like a king :-)
>>
>> Jens Bladt
>> http://www.jensbladt.dk
>> +45 56 63 77 11
>> +45 23 43 85 77
>> Skype: jensbladt248
>>
>> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
>> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
>> Godfrey
>> DiGiorgi
>> Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41
>> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote:
>>
>> > See, you are human after all ;-)))
>>
>> Or I put up a good simulation. ;-)
>>
>> G
>



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Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?

[David Savage]

Oh OK.

I read that very late at night/early in the morning when I replied. I
wasn't firing on all cylinders. :-)

Cheers,

Dave


On 1/1/07, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Exactly, John!
>
> And you are right - even the opposite is true, to some extend:
> People who do not buy Pentax are guilty of NOT giving Pentax greater
> incentives for further developments etc. :-)
>
> Regards
>
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John
> Forbes
> Sendt: 1. januar 2007 12:26
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
>
>
> I think Jens means that we, the users, make a Pentax a Pentax.  We buy
> what we like, and not what we don't.  The fact that Pentax is still in
> business means that they are producing what we like (more or less).
>
> John

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