RE: wrong iso choosen
An unshaved baboon? At 08:38 AM 3/11/2003 +0800, you wrote: William wrote: >Most lab people these days are little more than shaved baboons. Now William that's not quite true, my local lab has an assistant with a beard... Simon Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
Re: wrong iso choosen
- Original Message - From: "Herb Chong" Subject: Re: wrong iso choosen > define "real film speed". As oposed to artificial film speed.. Perhaps a bad choice of words. To clarify, my own experience with black and white has been that N+2 development will give approximately a 0.05 increase in the Zone 1 density, which is a 1/3 stop increase in film speed. William Robb
Re: wrong iso choosen
Frank wrote: > AFAIK, (despite Mr. Robb's protestations to the contrary > - and I acknowledge his expertise in this field, along with > my lack of same ), "real" B&W (as opposed to this new-fangled > C41 process B&W stuff) can be pushed or pulled, however it > will affect things like the graininess and contrast of the prints > to some extent, depending on the film you use - some films are > more tolerant of push/pulling than others. I think this hits upon the difficult y in accepting that film pushing increses speed. Seems more like the changes in contrast, grain and such is percieved as a speed gain, where that is not actually the underlying scientific cause. Bill - Bill D. Casselberry ; Photography on the Oregon Coast http://www.orednet.org/~bcasselb [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
RE: wrong iso choosen
William wrote: >Most lab people these days are little more than shaved baboons. Now William that's not quite true, my local lab has an assistant with a beard... Simon
Re: wrong iso choosen
define "real film speed". Herb - Original Message - From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 18:41 Subject: Re: wrong iso choosen > When I was lab testing films while learning the zone system, I found that an > N+2 process (thats a two stop "push") gave about a 1/3 stop increase in real > film speed. > > William Robb
Re: wrong iso choosen
- Original Message - From: "frank theriault" Subject: Re: wrong iso choosen > Hi, Bill, > > I don't really want to get into this, because as you say, it comes up all the > time, BUT : > > Are you saying that regular old non-C41 B&W can't be pushed? It seems to be > that is what you said. Not that I'm taking issue with your statement. I'll > continue to expose Tri-X and HP5+ at 800 or 1600, continue to take it into my > lab, and tell Rob (the lab owner), "I pushed this one (or two, as the case may > be) stops". And he'll continue to give me back prints that seem to be exposed > correctly - that's all that really matters to me. I'm not saying it can't be pushed. I just don't think that there is any effective speed increase from doing it. When I was lab testing films while learning the zone system, I found that an N+2 process (thats a two stop "push") gave about a 1/3 stop increase in real film speed. William Robb
Re: wrong iso choosen
Hi, Taz, Don't mind all the grumpy old (and not so old) folks on this list. I ain't no expert at all, but here's my take on this: Colour negative film is, AFAIK, all C41 process these days (someone correct me if I'm wrong, and perhaps provide examples of colour neg film that isn't, just for my edification). C41 film can't be pushed. It is tolerant to one stop over or under-exposure (I can say that from personal experience), and likely two stops, as many on this list have said before. So, as for your particular situation, set the ISO dial to the proper number, expose the rest of your film at that number, and bring it in to the lab. Don't bother telling them anything - they'll just process it, the machine will make whatever processing adjustments it has to, and you probably won't notice ~too much~ difference in exposure. AFAIK, (despite Mr. Robb's protestations to the contrary - and I acknowledge his expertise in this field, along with my lack of same ), "real" B&W (as opposed to this new-fangled C41 process B&W stuff) can be pushed or pulled, however it will affect things like the graininess and contrast of the prints to some extent, depending on the film you use - some films are more tolerant of push/pulling than others. Does this answer your question? cheers, frank Taz wrote: > William > > Rather then rant, why not just tell me what film and process can be pushed > in a color print type film. I just want to know how to push film and get it > properly processed when I only have a 800 ISO film with me and am told after > I'm already there that using my flash is not allowed so that I have other > options. Not to mention the fact that I can't even find a 1600 ISO film in > the town I live in. The bigger city about 50 miles away has one store that > has it some of the time. I scan my own negatives so I very rarely worry > about prints from a lab. If this has already been discussed to death and > gone over and over...point me to where I can read about it. I don't know > how to access the achieves from this group yet. > > Honestly I'm finding it sad that a simple question is met with so much > sarcasm. I wasn't aware that this group is only for advanced amatuers and > pros. Now you've got me being sarcasticjssh!!! > > Taz > -- "Honour - that virtue of the unjust!" -Albert Camus
Re: wrong iso choosen
- Original Message - From: "Taz" Subject: Re: wrong iso choosen > William > > Rather then rant, why not just tell me what film and process can be pushed > in a color print type film. I just want to know how to push film and get it > properly processed when I only have a 800 ISO film with me and am told after > I'm already there that using my flash is not allowed so that I have other > options. Not to mention the fact that I can't even find a 1600 ISO film in > the town I live in. The bigger city about 50 miles away has one store that > has it some of the time. I scan my own negatives so I very rarely worry > about prints from a lab. If this has already been discussed to death and > gone over and over...point me to where I can read about it. I don't know > how to access the achieves from this group yet. Sorry, this subject comes up fairly regularly. My stand is that attempting to increase film speed via push processing doesn't work. Not on any film type. Not at all. OTOH there are several list member who claim to get good results with push processing. I think they are deluding themselves. If you go here: http://www.mail-archive.com/pentax-discuss%40pdml.net/ and enter "push processing" into the search box, you will come up with 144 hits on the subject. Maybe even 145 now.. William Robb
Re: wrong iso choosen
Taz wrote: > I just want to know how to push film and get it properly > processed when I only have a 800 ISO film with me and am > told after I'm already there that using my flash is not > allowed so that I have other options. set up a similar situation and use your 800asa film w/o flash, w/ meter set to 1600asa & mabe an extra 1/3rd stop. have processed in normal C-41 and see what you get. > I scan my own negatives so I very rarely worry > about prints from a lab. quite likely enough corrections will be possible w/ post-processing digital means and will yield decent results Bill - Bill D. Casselberry ; Photography on the Oregon Coast http://www.orednet.org/~bcasselb [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
Re: wrong iso choosen
William Rather then rant, why not just tell me what film and process can be pushed in a color print type film. I just want to know how to push film and get it properly processed when I only have a 800 ISO film with me and am told after I'm already there that using my flash is not allowed so that I have other options. Not to mention the fact that I can't even find a 1600 ISO film in the town I live in. The bigger city about 50 miles away has one store that has it some of the time. I scan my own negatives so I very rarely worry about prints from a lab. If this has already been discussed to death and gone over and over...point me to where I can read about it. I don't know how to access the achieves from this group yet. Honestly I'm finding it sad that a simple question is met with so much sarcasm. I wasn't aware that this group is only for advanced amatuers and pros. Now you've got me being sarcasticjssh!!! Taz > > This is becoming dangerously close to my starting to rant about how C-41 > film cannot be push processed. > > William Robb > >
Re: wrong iso choosen
- Original Message - From: "Taz" Subject: Re: wrong iso choosen > > My needs in this department are for example pushing 400 to 800 or 800 to > 1600. Thus overexposure isn't my problem. However that I/O switch should > cover thatnow if I can just get my local lab to investigate that > possibility. > This is becoming dangerously close to my starting to rant about how C-41 film cannot be push processed. William Robb
Re: wrong iso choosen
Holy mackerel! Here we go again! ___ Dr E D F Williams http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery Updated: March 30, 2002 - Original Message - From: "Taz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:28 PM Subject: Re: wrong iso choosen > I keep hearing about pulling or pushing film but when I talk to my local > labs, they seem to know nothing of this. Is it because most color films are > C41 process and truly cannot have this done? I've never done this and > continue to be in the dark here. For example just looked on one of my print > film boxes and it says for process c16/c41. So are these 2 different > processes of which only c16 can be pulled or pushed? I've heard > repeditively that c41 is a fixed process and cannot be adjusted. > > > > > > when developing the film. It's called 'pull processing'. > > > >
RE: wrong iso choosen
CN16 is Fuji-s analog of C41 (Kodak) process. To pull or push color neg.films You or your lab needs film processor with SPECIAL DRIVE MOTOR. Cheers , Raivo
Re: wrong iso choosen
Hi, Monday, March 10, 2003, 10:54:52 AM, you wrote: > Bob Walkden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 10.03.2003, 10:43:11: >> continue to use 100 for the rest of the roll. When you process it tell >> the person who does the developing that it was exposed at ISO 100 and >> they will compensate. They will probably charge a little extra. > Thanks! > is this compensating done when developing the film or when making > prints? > bye when developing the film. It's called 'pull processing'. --- Bob
Re: wrong iso choosen
- Original Message - From: Subject: wrong iso choosen > beginner question... > I have a kodak iso 400 black and white film loaded in my mx. stupid me > forgot to set the iso to 400 and let it on 100. I realised my mistake > after about 12 pics taken. what effect does this have? is it better to > take the rest of the pictures with the correct iso setting or is it > better to use the same iso setting for the whole film? > sometimes automatic cameras do have their advantages -_^ If it is a chromogenic film (C-41 process), set the iso correctly for the film and forget about it. You can't alter the process anyway. If it is a real black and while film, continue to shoot the roll at 100, and pull process it by 20%. William Robb
Re: Re: wrong iso choosen
Bob Walkden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 10.03.2003, 10:43:11: > continue to use 100 for the rest of the roll. When you process it tell > the person who does the developing that it was exposed at ISO 100 and > they will compensate. They will probably charge a little extra. Thanks! is this compensating done when developing the film or when making prints? bye
Re: wrong iso choosen
Hi, Monday, March 10, 2003, 8:45:43 AM, you wrote: > beginner question... > I have a kodak iso 400 black and white film loaded in my mx. stupid me > forgot to set the iso to 400 and let it on 100. I realised my mistake > after about 12 pics taken. what effect does this have? is it better to > take the rest of the pictures with the correct iso setting or is it > better to use the same iso setting for the whole film? > sometimes automatic cameras do have their advantages -_^ > bye Katrin continue to use 100 for the rest of the roll. When you process it tell the person who does the developing that it was exposed at ISO 100 and they will compensate. They will probably charge a little extra. --- Bob
wrong iso choosen
beginner question... I have a kodak iso 400 black and white film loaded in my mx. stupid me forgot to set the iso to 400 and let it on 100. I realised my mistake after about 12 pics taken. what effect does this have? is it better to take the rest of the pictures with the correct iso setting or is it better to use the same iso setting for the whole film? sometimes automatic cameras do have their advantages -_^ bye Katrin
