RE: Raped environment led polluters on, attorneys argue
Sid: I love good satire. But I must object to posting unlabeled satirical pieces on pen-l. I do not have the time to worry about the authenticity of each item you present on pen-l. The more you post these pieces, the more skeptical I become of the other interesting articles you provide. The artistic value of "good" satire stands on its own, so please remove the braces. Jeff -- From: Sid Shniad To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Raped environment led polluters on, attorneys argue Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 6:11PM http://www.theonion.com January 21, 1998 RAPED ENVIRONMENT LED POLLUTERS ON, DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARGUE OLYMPIA, WA--In their opening statement before jurors Monday, defense attorneys representing Pacific North Construction Lumber Corp. argued that their client was not at fault for the July 1997 rape of 30,000 acres of virgin forest, claiming that the forest led the development company on with "an eager and blatant display of its rich, fertile bounty." "While, obviously, it is extremely unfortunate that this forest was raped, it should have known better than to show off its lush greenery and tall, strong trees in the presence of my client if it didn't want anything to happen," said lead defense attorney Dennis Schickle, speaking before a courtroom packed with members of the media. "It's only natural for any red-blooded American developer to get ideas in its head when it's presented with that kind of untouched beauty." "The bottom line is," Schickle continued, "if you're going to tease and encourage like that, openly flaunting your abundant natural resources, don't be surprised by the consequences." Public opinion regarding the high-profile case, which is being closely watched by timber-industry lobbyists and victims' rights groups across the U.S., is deeply divided. While some contend that the forced ravaging of a piece of land until it is stripped bare is never justifiable under any circumstances, others say that such an action is understandable if the wooded area gives off mixed signals. "The Pacific North Construction Lumber Corp. had every reason to believe that that forest wanted it bad," said logger Victor Duffy of Chelan, WA. "Just look at where it was at the time of the incident: It was in a secluded, far-off place, nearly 25 miles from the nearest road. What were those trees doing in that kind of remote spot if they weren't looking for trouble?" Those siding with the timber company also cite the forest's history, claiming that it has a reputation for being easily exploited. "Believe me, this is no virgin forest," said Frank Abbate, owner of the Bellingham-based GH Consolidated Timber. "It may try to pass itself off as pristine and untouched, but I know for a fact that it has a long history of allowing itself to be used by developers." In his opening statement, defense attorney Schickle also pointed out that when Pacific North loggers arrived at the forest on the day in question, its floor was covered in alluring, fragrant flowers that were "clearly meant to attract." "When a forest drapes itself in flora of every color and scent imaginable, it's obviously asking for it," Schickle said. "I'm sure the plaintiff will argue that these radiant flowers were meant to lure pollen-hungry bees, not pulp-hungry loggers. But how was my client supposed to know this? When was it made clear that this colorful display was meant to attract one particular species of fauna but no other? When was it made clear that this forest was looking to satisfy the needs of bees and bees only?" Russell Belanger, president of the National Timber And Logging Association, agreed. "This forest made it seem like it wanted it, then cried environmental rape when it got it," he said. "At some point, we've got to start asking ourselves who the real victim is in these cases: our nation's promiscuous, manipulative forests, or the good, decent developers out there who are just trying to make an honest living razing the land."
Re: ForniGate?
In message l03102801b0ee9eb90a06@[166.84.250.86], Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Tom Walker wrote: It's only a matter of time before Clinton's current scandal becomes known as "ForniGate" On another list, "Tailgate" was suggested. Doug On the cover of today's Daily Mirror newspaper (UK): 'Fornigate' -- James Heartfield
Please Re-Post: Full translation of Castro speech
Louis, If you still have the file, could you re-post the speech. Or, if it is in the archive, could you send me the site name? Thanks a million, Jason
Re: Please Re-Post: Full translation of Castro speech
The official translation of Cuban President Fidel Castro's statement of welcome to Pope John Paul II: Holy Father, The land you have just kissed is honored by your presence. You will not find here the peaceful and generous native people who inhabited this island when the first Europeans arrived. Most of the men were annihilated by the exploitation and the enslaved work they could not resist and the women turned into pleasure objects or domestic slaves. ... There were also those who died by the homicidal swords or victims of unknown diseases brought by the conquerors. Some priests have left tearing testimonies of their protests against such crimes. In the course of centuries, over a million Africans ruthlessly uprooted from their distant lands took the place of the enslaved natives already exterminated. They made a remarkable contribution to the ethnic composition and the origins of our country's present population where the cultures, the beliefs and the blood of all participants in the dramatic history have been mixed. It has been estimated that the conquest and colonization of this hemisphere resulted in the death of 70 million natives and the enslavement of 12 million Africans. Much blood was shed and many injustices perpetrated, a large part of which still remain after centuries of struggle and sacrifices under new forms of domination and exploitation. Under extremely difficult conditions, Cuba was able to constitute a nation. It had to fight alone for its independence with unsurmountable heroism and, exactly 100 years ago, it suffered a real holocaust in the concentration camps where a large part of its population perished, mostly old men, women and children; a crime whose monstrosity is not diminished by the fact that it has been forgotten by humanity's conscience. As a son of Poland and a witness of Oswiecim, you can understand this better than anyone. Today, Holy Father, genocide is attempted again when by hunger, illness and total economic suffocation some try to subdue this people that refuses to accept the dictates and the rule of the mightiest economic, political and military power in history; much more powerful than the old Rome that for centuries had the beasts devour those who refused to abdicate their faith. Like those Christians horribly slandered to justify the crimes, we who are as slandered as they were, we choose a thousand times death rather than abdicate our convictions. The revolution, like the Church, also has many martyrs. Holy Father, we feel the same way you do about many important issues of today's world and we are pleased it is so; in other matters our views are different but we are most respectful of your strong convictions about the ideas you defend. In your long pilgrimage around the world, you have been able to see with your own eyes many injustices, inequalities and poverty; uncultivated lands and landless hungry farmers; unemployment, hunger, illness; lives that could be saved with little money being lost for lack of it; illiteracy, child prostitution, 6-year old children working or begging for alms to survive; shanty towns where hundreds of millions live in unworthy conditions; race and sex discrimination; complete ethnic groups evicted from their lands and abandoned to their fate; xenophobia, contempt for other peoples; cultures which have been, or are currently being, destroyed; underdevelopment and usurious loans, unpayable and uncollectable debts, unfair exchange, outrageous and unproductive financial speculations; an environment being ruthlessly and perhaps helplessly destroyed; an unscrupulous weapons trade with disgusting lucrative intents; wars, violence, massacres; generalized corruption, narcotics, vices and an alienating consumerism imposed on peoples as an ideal model. Mankind has seen its population increase almost fourfold just in this century. There are billions of people suffering hunger and thirst for justice; the list of man's economic and social calamities is endless. I am aware that many of them are cause of permanent and growing concern to the Holy Father. I have been through personal experiences which allow me to appreciate other features of his thinking. I was a student in Catholic schools until I obtained my bachelor's degree. There, I was taught that to be a Jew, a Muslim, a Hinduist, a Buddhist, an animist or a participant of any other religious belief was a terrible evil deserving severe and unmitigated punishment. More than once, even in some of those schools for the wealthy and privileged -- where I was one of them -- I came up with the question of why there were no black children there; until this day, I have not forgotten the unconvincing answers I was given. In later years, the Second Vatican Council convened by Pope John XXIII undertook the analysis of some of these sensitive issues. We are aware of efforts by the Holy Father to preach and practice sentiments of respect for the faithful of other important and influential
Seeking clarification
Hi, Jeff. Please clarify. Do you want me to label satirical pieces before posting them? Or do you want me not to post them? (I didn't understand what "remove the braces" meant.) Sid Sid: I love good satire. But I must object to posting unlabeled satirical pieces on pen-l. I do not have the time to worry about the authenticity of each item you present on pen-l. The more you post these pieces, the more skeptical I become of the other interesting articles you provide. The artistic value of "good" satire stands on its own, so please remove the braces. Jeff -- From: Sid Shniad To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Raped environment led polluters on, attorneys argue Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 6:11PM http://www.theonion.com January 21, 1998 RAPED ENVIRONMENT LED POLLUTERS ON, DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ARGUE OLYMPIA, WA--In their opening statement before jurors Monday, defense attorneys representing Pacific North Construction Lumber Corp. argued that their client was not at fault for the July 1997 rape of 30,000 acres of virgin forest, claiming that the forest led the development company on with "an eager and blatant display of its rich, fertile bounty." "While, obviously, it is extremely unfortunate that this forest was raped, it should have known better than to show off its lush greenery and tall, strong trees in the presence of my client if it didn't want anything to happen," said lead defense attorney Dennis Schickle, speaking before a courtroom packed with members of the media. "It's only natural for any red-blooded American developer to get ideas in its head when it's presented with that kind of untouched beauty." "The bottom line is," Schickle continued, "if you're going to tease and encourage like that, openly flaunting your abundant natural resources, don't be surprised by the consequences." Public opinion regarding the high-profile case, which is being closely watched by timber-industry lobbyists and victims' rights groups across the U.S., is deeply divided. While some contend that the forced ravaging of a piece of land until it is stripped bare is never justifiable under any circumstances, others say that such an action is understandable if the wooded area gives off mixed signals. "The Pacific North Construction Lumber Corp. had every reason to believe that that forest wanted it bad," said logger Victor Duffy of Chelan, WA. "Just look at where it was at the time of the incident: It was in a secluded, far-off place, nearly 25 miles from the nearest road. What were those trees doing in that kind of remote spot if they weren't looking for trouble?" Those siding with the timber company also cite the forest's history, claiming that it has a reputation for being easily exploited. "Believe me, this is no virgin forest," said Frank Abbate, owner of the Bellingham-based GH Consolidated Timber. "It may try to pass itself off as pristine and untouched, but I know for a fact that it has a long history of allowing itself to be used by developers." In his opening statement, defense attorney Schickle also pointed out that when Pacific North loggers arrived at the forest on the day in question, its floor was covered in alluring, fragrant flowers that were "clearly meant to attract." "When a forest drapes itself in flora of every color and scent imaginable, it's obviously asking for it," Schickle said. "I'm sure the plaintiff will argue that these radiant flowers were meant to lure pollen-hungry bees, not pulp-hungry loggers. But how was my client supposed to know this? When was it made clear that this colorful display was meant to attract one particular species of fauna but no other? When was it made clear that this forest was looking to satisfy the needs of bees and bees only?" Russell Belanger, president of the National Timber And Logging Association, agreed. "This forest made it seem like it wanted it, then cried environmental rape when it got it," he said. "At some point, we've got to start asking ourselves who the real victim is in these cases: our nation's promiscuous, manipulative forests, or the good, decent developers out there who are just trying to make an honest living razing the land."
Irish Times on French unemployed movement (fwd)
The Irish Times WORLD NEWS Thursday, January 22, 1998 Jospin shivers in winter of discontent Lara Marlowe looks at the unemployment protests that are still gathering momentum and are not confined to those without work France: It wasn't the storming of the Bastille, but when a crowd of unemployed protesters invaded Fouquet's, an expensive restaurant on the Champs-Elysée, earlier this week, their cries of "we're hungry, we're hungry" resonated through France's guilty social conscience. Among the 83 people arrested at Fouquet's was Helyette Besse, known as the "Mama" of the 1980s extremist group Action Directe. The Revolutionary Communist League, Trotskyists, gay, lesbian and ecologist fringe groups have also played a prominent role in France's five-week old revolt of the unemployed, which has presented the Prime Minister, Mr Lionel Jospin, with his biggest crisis since taking office last June. Only a tiny proportion of France's four million unemployed have participated in the demonstrations, and many of the protesters are not even unemployed. Yet a majority of French people say they sympathise with the movement, and Mr Jospin was last night forced to explain his economic and social policy in an attempt to calm the rebellion. His popularity rating, though still high at 51 per cent, has dropped six points, and his Green and Communist coalition partners have sided with the demonstrators. The government was slow to react when activists began occupying unemployment benefits offices in Paris, Brittany and the south of France the week before Christmas. With most of the cabinet on holiday, the crisis received little attention. On January 9th, Mr Jospin offered a billion franc (£119 million) emergency fund for the jobless. Protest organisers sniffed at the offer - just as demonstrators rejected sandwiches or a meal in the staff canteen at another stylish Paris restaurant, La Coupole, last weekend; the Coupole crowd stood their ground and got oysters, steak and even a bottle of champagne from a restaurant client. On January 10th, riot police forcibly expelled demonstrators from more than a dozen dole offices across France; but the cycle of sit-ins and expulsions continued. A week later, Mr Jospin offered another carrot: a special committee to study the protesters' demand for a F1,500 (£179) increase in the minima sociaux - France's financial net for the poor and unemployed. There are eight different categories of minima sociaux including the RMI (minimum insertion revenue) and the ASS (specific solidarity allocation). Recipients number 3.3 million - six million counting their families - and all live near the official poverty level of F3,200 (£380) per month. Mr Jospin told parliament this week that France's 12.4 per cent unemployment rate - one of the highest in Europe - is "the central question of our society". He has kept campaign promises made last spring to create 350,000 government jobs for youths and to initiate a 35-hour working week. But he is firmly committed to monetary union, and an increase in welfare benefits could doom France's participation. Mr Jospin has been careful not to inflame public opinion against EMU by blaming the Maastricht criteria for his refusal to cave in to the revolt. The benefits increase demanded by protesters would cost F70 billion (£8.33 billion) - an unacceptable added budget deficit and tax burden, Mr Jospin said. Furthermore, such an increase would mean that some unemployed people would earn more than the minimum wage of F5,259 (£626). Sounding uncharacteristically like a liberal free marketeer, Mr Jospin said: "We don't want a society of assistance, but a society founded on work and productive activity." For once, the right-wing opposition applauded. The right is not so keen on Mr Jospin's plan for a 35-hour working week, which will be debated in the National Assembly on January 27th. A study released yesterday by the OFCE, an independent economic forecasting group, said the 35-hour week could create 450,000 new jobs by 2000. Another study carried out for the French Central Bank and leaked yesterday to Le Monde said the law could create over 700,000 jobs in three years. But business management groups fiercely oppose the law, claiming it will actually worsen unemployment. To encourage job creation, management says, the government must reduce the charges sociales - welfare contributions made by French employers which total 40 per cent over and above a worker's salary. These economic debates may not calm the modern Jacobins who invaded Fouquet's and La Coupole. Their discontent seems to be
Useful URL's for the Re Utopias Thread
Yes I know you have a lot more meaty stuff to think about right now. But you all know damn well that the "Re Utopias" thread may return eventually. These are just some useful on-line resources to keep on file for when that happens. The first item on the list is by me -- because I don't DO humility. The rest are genuine Robin Hahnel and Michael Albert compositions. I've created a summary of the PE model, short on arguments, long on correct pricing and incentives. Being the sort who is unable to see a beautifully balanced machine without getting the urge to tinker, and being unable to see something good without criticizing it for not being perfect, naturally I've added some comments of my own. Also, naturally, the parts not explicitly labeled comment are still my personal view of what AH meant and are not endorsed by them in any way. This URL for this is:: http://www.lol.shareworld.com/leftonl/lipow.htm AH also have posted their own summary on this which is a little more sketchy about how the model works. It gives a great sketch of arguments about why something like Parecon is needed. http://www.lol.shareworld.com/HahnelURPE.htm Robin Hahnel also gave a talk on disputes and common ground between democratic planners and market socialists: http://www.lol.shareworld.com/ZMag/Articles/hahnelumasstalk.htm The ZNet bulletin board is now working fine. (Let it not crash after my saying so publicly). The forums work via browser, (not by news reader) but are still a little slow. If you want to get into the Parecon forums start at http://www.lol.shareworld.com/leftonl/ZNETTOPnoanimation.html and follow the prompts to forums and parecon forum. Michael Albert also has ten lectures posted on the subject which are extremely long and far more elementary than "Looking Forward". These can be found at: http://www.lol.shareworld.com/Parecon/10lecs.htm Lastly there is an article of interest on Marxism by Michael Albert. It does not directly deal with Parecon, but gives you a better idea of the overall perspective than led Michael at least to spend the time it cost to come up with Parecon. Most of the sources this article cites are join works by MA and Robin Hahnel, so I assume to represents (at least in part) Robin Hahnel's thinking as well. http://www.lol.shareworld.com/marxismarticle.htm If anyone is interested in the article I mentioned, but has to pay per minute to browse, (or uses a super slow shared browser), I will be happy to forward any of the above articles upon request via e-mail. (The only exception is the ten lectures, which are too long and in too many pieces for me to e-mail conveniently.) You can reach me to request this at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Gar Lipow Olympia, Washington.
Re: The situation in Cuba
Sid Schniad: PS -- please, Louis, try to address the substantive issues that I'm trying to raise without engaging in ad hominem attacks on me for raising them. You and Brian aren't raising any new issues as far as I'm concerned. Anybody who reads a newspaper is aware of the problems in Cuba. As I said, I posted from NY Times articles and Mark Cooper long ago on PEN-L that described these social inequalities. This is old news. The real question is what the Cuban government should do to protect whatever vestiges of socialism remain. Do you have any recommendations? The mixed economy that has spawned these injustices were forced upon the Cuban government by the fact of their economic and political isolation. I don't watch television news, so I can't comment on "income inequality" in the state sector. Doctors who work for pesos have meager wages, as do sugar-cane cutters. Higher wages are only available to those workers employed in joint ventures. In the Mark Cooper piece I posted a couple of years ago, there's a lengthy description of his dinner with the Cuban manager of one of these firms. He wears a Rolex watch and has taken Cooper out to a fancy lobster dinner. He says that capitalism is the wave of the future. The Castroist old-guard is locked in a bitter struggle with these people. Why doesn't it simply keep their wage at the same level as managers in state-owned enterprises? The answer is simple. The foreign companies set the wages and like to reward managers handsomely so they can count on them to crack the whip. As long as Cuba does not have the power to keep such companies out, it doesn't have the power to affect what happens inside the plant-gate. The reason these companies are there is that they provide foreign currency, technological training and jobs. They also infect Cuba with the distortions of class society. All these problems existed during the NEP as well. There is no solution to them, alas. Capitalism is much more powerful and can dictate to weak, isolated socialist countries. I don't mind discussing these questions, but if people are serious about it, they're going to have to approach them in a rigorous and scholarly fashion. Otherwise, I will treat them with the contempt they deserve. I have been following Cuban developments closely for 30 years and I take them seriously. Anybody who blathers on about Castro supporting capitalism is not really worth my time. The speech that Castro made when the Pope arrived could not be made by somebody who favored capitalism. Louis Proyect
New Video - School of the Americas: An Insider Speaks Ou (fwd)
Comments: Authenticated sender is [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "NUEVO AMANECER PRESS" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "NAP-E6"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:20:50 + Subject: New Video - School of the Americas: An Insider Speaks Ou ORDER FORM FROM SOA WATCH "http://www.soaw.org/blair-video.html" SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS An Insider Speaks Out "The School of the Americas was the best place a Latin American military officer could go to launder his drug money. And we routinely had students at the school who were known human rights abusers, and it didnt make any difference to us."Major Joseph Blair, former Instructor The U.S. Army School of the Americas (SOA), at Fort Benning, Georgia, trains hundreds of soldiers from Latin America each year in combat skills. Graduates of this school have left a trail of blood and suffering in every country where they have returned. Thousands of people around the country are working hard to close this scbool of assassins, paid for by U.S. taxpayers. Now, for the first time, a former instructor at the school speaks out! Major Joseph Blair served 20 years in the U.S. Army, including 12 years as a Latin American specialist and a tour of duty in Vietnam. During his Army career, he received five Meritorious Service Avards and the Bronze Star. Major Blair is the first insider to come forward and,from first-hand experience as an instructor for three years, gives compelling reasons why the SOA should be shut down. This 15-minute video reveals the hidden world of the School of the Americas and incorporates rarely-seen footage from Latin America. It is an excellent up-to-date resource for the SOA Watch, church groups, veterans, teachers, members of Congress, the media and anyone working for peace and justice. We regret that we are unable to take online orders. Please print out this page and clip and return the bottom portion with your payment to: SOA Watch 1719 Irving Street NW Washington, DC 20010-2612 Name/Organization:_brbr Address:_City/State/Zip:_brbr Phone:__ Fax:__brbr I would like to order__copies @ $15.00 each plus $3.00 S/H. Total enclosed: $__ ___ NUEVO AMANECER PRESS- N.A.P. _ Non Profit organization translating and distributing information in support of the work in defense of human rights. General Director: Roger Maldonado-Mexico Assistant Director: Susana Saravia (Anibarro) Director Spain: Darrin Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The situation in Cuba
If the range of choices is limited to emulating the NEP, then prospects for the future appear pretty bleak, don't they? Sid Schniad As I suspected, Sid and Brian Green are more interested in discussing how socialism can be achieved rather than the particular problems of the Cuban revolution. My suggestion is that they take this up with people who devote themselves full-time to this topic, like Robin Hahnel. He has the answers to all these problems. He and Mike Albert have spent years developing a model that works great in theory. What more can anybody ask? Gar Lipow provided the URL's for these and other utopian papers just a couple of hours ago. Go check them out. There's no NEP in the Albert-Hahnel future. I prefer to deal with conjunctural problems, which lend themselves more to the historical materialist tradition I work within. I don't ever try to answer the question of how socialism can work. I am much more interested in, for example, trying to figure out whether in retrospect the Sandinistas made a wise decision when they channeled so much investment into large-scale state-owned farms. Signing off on the Cuba thread, Louis Proyect
Re: request
Dear Michael, Glad to hear the book is coming out! If in the category of resources you include rank-and-file newsletters (and Websites), could you mention the Health Care Worker Monitor (www.igc.org/hcwm)? I can give you copies and details if it's relevant (and also have addresses for NY transit and teamster dissidents).. I also have some ideas for labor history references but suspect you've got that covered. Andy Pollack We want to include an Appendix of useful resources for readers. I would greatly appreciate suggestions for things like books (rreferences, how-to books, etc.),magazines, web sites, directories, publishers, etc. Naturally I will credit anyone who sends me sources which I use in the Appendix. Thanks in advance. Michael Yates
Re: French unemployed movement
What do pen-l'ers make of the argument propounded by pro-EMU social democrats that w/o EMU global financial markets will discipline expansionary/welfare initiatives, and at the very least w/EMU some weak version of EC-wide expansionary/welfare initiatives can be achieved, as long as the EC central bank does not resemble the Bundesbank ? I don't necessarily agree with this line of thought, but I do think that simply arguing that social democrats are collaborating with globalization and flexibilization and austerity and so on via the EMU is insufficient. "Marxists" such Germany's Altvater and Spain's Alier have endorsed EMU in accord with the above logic (see upcoming edition of _Capitalism, Nature, Socialism_). Another question: how do proponents of the 35-hour week in Italy, France, and the Netherlands realistically think it will be possible to pay workers who work only 35 hours for 40 hours' work ? Unless there is a massive increase in productivity (so that the rate of surplus value extraction remains more or less the same) won't there be a capital strike, or diversion of capital into the financial sector, or somesuch thing ? Waiting w/bated breath for answers, John Gulick Ph. D. Candidate Sociology Graduate Program University of California-Santa Cruz (415) 643-8568 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: French unemployed movement
On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, john gulick wrote: What do pen-l'ers make of the argument propounded by pro-EMU social democrats that w/o EMU global financial markets will discipline expansionary/welfare initiatives, and at the very least w/EMU some weak version of EC-wide expansionary/welfare initiatives can be achieved, as long as the EC central bank does not resemble the Bundesbank ? Well, after a twenty-five year cross-border investment binge, the question is pretty academic at this point. European capital really is European, so if the Left is going to take the reigns in Europe, they're going to need a transnational strategy. More to the point, the Continent has never, not even in 1998, really given up on Keynesianism (hey, even we Americans have a kind of privatized, rentier Keynesianism: total consumer and private sector debt makes up 80% of the total financial structure of the US, while Big Government weighs in with a measly 20%, and of course the Wall Street bubble has further spread liquidity around). Germany has been spending a cool $100 billion a year to restructure the ex-GDR; European capital has granted big subsidies to Eastern Europe and the CIS in terms of loan write-offs, debt restructurings, etc. (around $50 billion in write-offs, significant in an economic region with only $200 billion in annual output). The poor in France still have health care and social services which 40 million Americans can only dream about, while even Hungary and Slovakia have kept significant parts of their welfare state intact. In Wall Street's twisted version of reality, all these things should've led to an unparalleled economic disaster. Not so: EU per capita growth rates are better than America's, ordinary workers are richer, Second World countries like Slovenia have lower infant mortality rates than the US (per capita GDP in Slovenia: $5000, versus $27,000 for the US), the environmental laws are tightening up quickly, as opposed to US-style eco-wilding, and the EU is a net global creditor in the world economy (we owe them a cool $250 billion, incidentally, on our international net investment account). One way this matters to ordinary people: you will note that Eastern Europe has been immune from the worst ravages of the currency implosion of the Asian semi-periphery. That's because German and Swiss banks are investing in the East for the social-democratic long haul, not to make money to some sleazoid mutual funds pimp with payments to make on his/her Atlantic yacht. This doesn't mean, of course, that you couldn't adopt transnational techniques in specific countries: this is what Switzerland and most of the German Federal states, like Baden-Wuerttemberg and Bavaria, have done for years, i.e. soaking the rich to finance education, scientific research establishments and the like (local Green Party folks have been doing some wonderful things on the urban and local level, too). But the Left has to be clear on the concept: the enemy is not this or that national group but an emergent transnational elite. Another question: how do proponents of the 35-hour week in Italy, France, and the Netherlands realistically think it will be possible to pay workers who work only 35 hours for 40 hours' work ? Unless there is a massive increase in productivity (so that the rate of surplus value extraction remains more or less the same) won't there be a capital strike, or diversion of capital into the financial sector, or some such thing ? I can't speak for the Eurocomrades themselves, of course, but the 35-hour week is quite doable. European unions have been pushing for productivity increases for years, and in many ways IG Metall's codetermination policies on the assembly line were and are the functional equivalent of Japanese kaizen and quality-circle techniques: they democratized management (smarter workers produce better goods, and line engineers run the show, not marketing whizzes) and forced German industry to invest, plan and produce high-quality products for the long haul, instead of engaging in irresponsible speculation or stock market bubbling. Since wages have been languishing in Europe recently, the 35-hour week will be a long overdue Keynesian boost to workers' incomes. The 37 and 1/2 hour week already exists in much of Central Europe, in the form of half-work-Fridays and the like, but the track record of Daimler Benz, BMW, Novartis, Siemens and Ericsson speaks for itself. In a real sense, the EU is not just about extending the autocracy of capital, but about democratically extending the best part of the Swedish/Swiss models to all of Europe. To me, it's amazing to think that even countries like Poland and the Czech Republic have proportional representation systems and flourishing varieties of local social democracy, while the United States of Decay vegetates in a hideous post-Imperial stew of money-politics, bubble-mad finance, continuing Pentagon boondoggles and neoliberal fundamentalism.
Re: The Situation In Cuba
Louis --Hope you don't mind this addition to a discussion you have officially retired from. But, you are a long time activist (probably including on this issue). I'm sure it was purely accidental that your brilliant theoretical analysis of Cuba's suffering under global capitalism omitted any references to immediate practical actions your readers could take.. Anyone who wants to actually help relieve some of the suffering of the Cuban people can do the following: Write President Clinton, Secretary of State Albright and your Congressmember urging them to support H.R. 1951 which would eliminate food and medicine from the embargo against Cuba. The supporters of this bill are also asking that people on-line e-mail all the rest of the Congress as well. A sample letter is at the end of this post. To get more details on this try the page on the Cuban Humanitarian Relief act at http://www.igc.apc.org/cubasoli/relifact.html The above is a page on the Cuban Solidarity web site. http://www.igc.apc.org/cubasoli/ This contains links to a number of other sites -- at which those with time and money to donate can find out about additional actions they can take. All this stuff I'm passing on comes from there. There is also a web site with an online petition you can sign: http://www.salam.org/activism/cuba.html BTW http://www.salam.org/ though officially devoted to the Palestinian cause is a great site on Middle Eastern politics in general -- and as the above example shows often devotes time to humanitarian causes of all kinds. For list members outside the U.S. -- writing to Clinton and Albright still would not hurt. Thanks Gar Lipow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Olympia, Washington Sample Letter Supporting H.R. 1951: Dear Pres. Clinton, Secretary of State Albright and Congressmember __ I am writing to wish to express my concern, and displeasure, with the course of our policy on Cuba. Despite the claim that this policy of isolation and embargo is intended to bring about democracy in Cuba through a change in leadership, the net result has been to greatly increase the suffering of the Cuban people. Nowhere is this result more evident than in the field of health care. (See the report published by the American Association for World Health entitled "Denial of Food and Medicine. The Impact of the U.S. Embargo on Health and Nutrition in Cuba. March 1997.") This embargo, unprecedented in its aim of withholding food and medicine from a whole population, is clearly rejected by all of the civilized world, leaving the United States government as "odd man out." The recent frenzy on the part of the Congress to intensify even the harshest aspects of the Helms-Burton Act, rather than softening those provisions as promised to the European Union, only thrusts the United States further into the role of a global bully. We urge you to begin to draw back from a path of irreversible conflict, not only with our neighbor nation, but with our chief allies, by rescinding all restrictions on supplying/selling food and medicine to Cuba. The passage of bill, H.R. 1951 to exempt food and medicine from the embargo will be a good first step to ending a long, futile and cruel policy -- the embargo itself. Very truly yours, After you have contacted YOUR representative send an e-mail message to 250 other representatives with known e-mail addresses. Click here to access a current e-mail list for the 105th Congress . Create your own mailing list and with one key stroke you send your letter to these 250 representatives expressing your support for HR 1951.
Re: Selective responses (second try)
Friends, Mao wrote about several kinds of contradictions. Some are primary at a given time and some are not. In Cuba, the main contradiction I believe is that between the US and Cuba. We here in the US can do little about Cuba's internal contradictions, although we can offer principled criticisms. But we can perhaps take actions to pressure our own government to end the embargo and we can speak and act in solidarity with the Cuban people. After all, our own government is killing cuban children every day and has done the most awful things to the Cuban people. Whatever its faults, the Cuban government and the revolution deserve our support. The achievements made by the revolution in the face of monstrous acts by the US are truly remarkable. It's curious that we seem always to look for betrayals by revolutionaries (Vietnam during the boat people exodus comes to mind when Joan Baez and others were so quick to condemn the Vietnamese) without seeing that when you murder a people they do not always with democratic propriety. Michael Yates Louis Proyect wrote: Sid Schniad: Does anything and everything go under such circumstances? Of course not, but on the big question of NEP-like measures, there are no alternatives. With the collapse of the USSR, these measures became painfully necessary. In order to make them disappear, it requires money not political exhortation. Following this line of reasoning, would place criticism of the Sandinistas' adherence to IMF-imposed neoliberal strictures (as published in NACLA Reports and elsewhere) similarly off limits. The neoliberal adjustments that took place in Nicaragua in 1989 have the same cause as those taking place in Cuba today: the collapse of the USSR. When Gorbachev was in power, Eduard Scheverznade told Nicaragua that it would have to fend for itself. All aid was cut off to placate Washington. These neoliberal measures are not the sort of thing that Sandinistas had an ideological predisposition toward--they were forced on them. After they adopted them, they unfortunately developed a vision of socialism that was more social democratic than anything else. They made a virtue out of necessity. A new left is emerging in Central America and surely will sidestep Daniel Ortega and company. It seems to me that Louis's position comes down to this: genuine socialists should treat the revolutionary party in power as being beyond criticism. I advocate that socialists concentrate their fire on the American government. Mostly what Brian Green has to offer is a variation of the sort of thing I hear from Trotskyites all the time on the Spoons mail-list. It is an abstract call for proletarian democracy, with no clue as to how to achieve it. It is a harmless pasttime, which functions as rotisserie baseball for frustrated leftists in imperialist countries. Who can be opposed to democratic socialism everywhere at once? Not me. If this is an improper inference from what you've been saying, Louis -- apologies in advance if it is -- could you please provide some specific instances of policies/actions of the Cuban government that you yourself have criticized from your own perspective? I regard the task of constructing socialism in Russia in the 1920s or Cuba today as akin to juggling chainsaws. It is a miracle if you can keep them all in the air and not lose too many fingers in the process. My main complaint with Castro is not unlike the criticism I have made on the net of another revolutionary icon, Lenin. They both failed to understand the nature of the revolutionary process that allowed them to take power and fostered the development of poorly conceived clones. Lenin gave his blessing to the "21 conditions" which would create clones of the Bolshevik party everywhere in the world. Guevara tried to recreate the Cuban experience in Bolivia with disastrous results, while a myriad of "Castroite" armed groups came to naught through the 60s and 70s. The FSLN succeeded, and the FMLN nearly succeeded, because they achieved roots in the mass movement and did not make a fetish of armed actions. The other big mistake that Castro made was to give political credit to Allende, whose horrible class-collaborationist policies helped drown the workers movement in blood. Louis Proyect
Re: French unemployed movement
Dear Andy, I hate to send this over the list but I could not get a messge through to you at the email address listed. Please resend me the list of sources for my appendix plus anything else you think would be good. Thanks. Michael yates [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew C. Pollack wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:59:33 + john gulick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another question: how do proponents of the 35-hour week in Italy, France, and the Netherlands realistically think it will be possible to pay workers who work only 35 hours for 40 hours' work ? Unless there is a massive increasein productivity (so that the rate of surplus value extraction remains more or less the same) won't there be a capital strike, or diversion of capital into the financial sector, or somesuch thing ? Waiting w/bated breath for answers, John Gulick Ph. D. Candidate Sociology Graduate Program University of California-Santa Cruz (415) 643-8568 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The productivity increase that's been happening for the last few decades is what makes possible a shorter workweek movement -- that and the political will to forge such a movement. European workers will fight for the 35-hour week to the extent that they resent having restored profitability through heightened productivity without sharing the gains. U.S. workers have done a similar favor for their bosses by not fighting lean production, longer hours, contingent work, etc. There is no comparable movement here, however, for a couple reasons: 1) the lack of a political tendency taking the initiative to forge such a movement (and the Labor Party's 28th Constitutional Amendment campaign is a sad diversion); 2) the lower unemployment rates in the U.S. That is, the problem is -- outside of communities of color -- not so much no jobs as really bad jobs. A jobs movement here would thus have a shorter work week as a component, but would have to articulate demands around job security (rights to permanent, fulltime status), benefits, bans on overtime, and above all higher pay. (It would as well have special demands around higher unemployment levels in communities of color, and special targets for jobs creation in areas of lacking social services: child care, health, education, housing, etc.) Can we take such an initiative? Can the various rank and file groups, labor/community coalitions, Labor Party, etc., meet in conference and work out a set of demands and a plan to take it into our workplaces, union meetings and community organizations? Should such a movement in Europe (or the U.S.) be successful, there would of course be a capital strike. That's why labor will take up and continue the fight for this demand only on two conditions: a) it recognize that it is fighting for productivity gains already squeezed out of it; b) to the extent its demands go beyond recouping that surplus, and jeopardize future profitability of capital, whether national, regional or international, it is willing to disregard that concern and in fact to consider again alternatives to capital's rule. Andy Pollack
Re: French unemployed movement
as long as the EC central bank does not resemble the Bundesbank ? John, will not a strict interpretation of the Maastricht convergence criteria ensure that the Euro will indeed be managed according to an economic policy reflecting and fostering the interests of German capital. E.g., the single currency will erase even the restricted possibility offered by the ERM to resort to devaluation while the stability criteria will tie even more the weaker countries' economic policies to that of Germany. So suggests Guglielmo Carchedi, "The EMU, Monetary Crises and the Single European Currency", Capital and Class 63 (Autumn 1997): 99 Another question: how do proponents of the 35-hour week in Italy, France, and the Netherlands realistically think it will be possible to pay workers who work only 35 hours for 40 hours' work ? Unless there is a massive increase in productivity (so that the rate of surplus value extraction remains more or less the same) won't there be a capital strike, or diversion of capital into the financial sector, or somesuch thing ? This proposal is attractive because it suggests that the entire working class can benefit from the reduction of unemployment. It would seem that capital is already on strike and already diverted into the financial sector. What is interesting is why productivity gains don't now issue in commensurate real wage gains or reduced hours. It seems that without intending to do so ordinary workers' demands are running up against the limits of the capitalist system. This holds of course for the glorious autonomous actions by the unemployed to reduce gas, electricity and rent payments and to demand amnesty for the officials who participate in these auto-reductions. Rakesh
Discussing Thorstein Veblen
Lou, All your posts on Indian history and conditions have been interesting in themselves, but as you proceed along this line beware of a possibility that I would image as follows: Getting from here (central Illinois) to New York by hitchhiking along I55 to Los Angeles, then signing on to the crew of a freighter to go to New York by the way of the Panama Canal. Or to put it another way, most (perhaps all) of the conclusions you arrive at re ecology, the present, and the future could be made had we no knowledge whatever of Indian history or thought (or even if the western hemisphere had had no native population when the Europeans arrived). Just an example. It is fairly obvious (no need for discussion of the buffalos, etc) that the Great Plains should not, for the most part, be used to cultivate anything other than grasses. There are probably several lines of argument which could lead to this conclusion. But then there are some problems. The current population of the U.S. is (what?) 250 million. Probably for the long run that is too many. Probably around 100 million would be about right. But we are not radical ecologists who seemingly want us (who "us"?) simply to let that surplus of 150 million die from starvation or whatever. In other words, it is going to take a couple of centuries for that population to fall to its desirable level, and in the mean time we have a lot of people to feed. Now, it is or ought to be a truism that the U.S. diet contains too high a proportion of meat, particularly red meat, and that much of the grain that goes to cattle feed ought to be consumed as grain products. But a good deal of that prime grain crop is produced on the great plains, on land that ought not to be under cultivation. In fact, a rather substantial proportion of the world's protein exists in the form of grasses, but that protein can be accessed only by processing it through cattle. (Incidentally, I'm bound to be making quite a few empirical errors here, and I hope the list has enough experts on the subjects involved to correct me; I think, however that those corrections won't refute the general line of the argument.) And I presume that while quite large herds can be supported by grazing, there would be some reduction in efficiency in the production of meat. I don't know whether that reduction would be an acceptable or unacceptable one given a shift in dietary habits to greater consumption of grain. But I don't know either where that greater supply of grain is going to come from if wheat and corn growing on the Great Plains is stopped. I and I suspect most people could shift fairly easily (if pressed a bit) to more grain, less red meat. I don't think it would be so easy to shift from wheat to corn as the basis of that grain diet. All I'm trying to do here is open up questions, not offer any "plans," but I think answers to those questions simply won't be available in the study of practices suitable for a world with a population of only a billion or so but not for a world of 6 billion and growing. And even "administrative methods" short of Buchenwald will not put a stop to that growth or reverse it in less than a century or so. ?? Carrol Louis Proyect replies: These are the very questions that I think about in almost every waking minute nowadays. I have some very powerful ideas that I am trying to cohere that revolve around some key events in 1890. They include the Ghost Dancing movement, Bill Cody's Wild West show, with its very interesting identification with imperialism, John Muir's writings on the ruin of American wilderness by sheep, the "hooved locust", and many other items that don't fit neatly into a Marxist schema. My goal is to grab this schema by the throat and beat some sense into it.
Re: The situation in Cuba
Louis, I'm not taken with the answer that I've "added nothing new" here. The problem we're all grappling with in this discussion of Cuba is the pattern of elites (ostensibly progressive) who, acting in the name of the people, carry out policies that are detrimental to the people. To say that similar problems arose in Russia during the NEP is "adding nothing new." The question is what policies can be pursued to break out of the stranglehold of capitalism. If the range of choices is limited to emulating the NEP, then prospects for the future appear pretty bleak, don't they? Sid
Re: The situation in Cuba
At 04:27 PM 1/24/98 -0500, Louis Proyect wrote: [SNIP] I don't mind discussing these questions, but if people are serious about it, they're going to have to approach them in a rigorous and scholarly fashion. Otherwise, I will treat them with the contempt they deserve. I have been following Cuban developments closely for 30 years and I take them seriously. Anybody who blathers on about Castro supporting capitalism is not really worth my time. The speech that Castro made when the Pope arrived could not be made by somebody who favored capitalism. Louis Proyect Louis, With rare exception I find your contributions to this list to be quite valuable, informative, provocative, and engaging. I have taken the liberty of sharing many of your postings with others outside the PEN-L. However, you occasionally demonstrate a level of arrogance and intellectual and political snobbery that detracts from your message and thus from your influence. This is one example. Your condescension and belittling of others communicates to many who may not be willing to engage in interpersonal cyberfisticuffs with you or an exchange of vituperous insults the message that they should just butt out of the debate or refrain from posting their views at all. Not everyone who subscribes to this list is a "scholar" and not all have a command of the literature that you appear to. Some will post ideas that are half-baked or not fully thought through. You (and I) may disagree with any number of concepts or political assumptions, not to mention factually erroneous points. But responding with patronizing and arrogant, even abusive insults wins no arguments, educates no one, and merely demonstrates your prowess at "scoring points." This is especially so when you talk down to those who may be (presumably) younger, less educated or well read, less certain, or just unwilling to engage someone who expresses such condescension toward those with whom he disagrees. (I hope this criticism does not make me the next object of your scorn.) You are always at your best when you attempt to educate rather than humiliate the rest of us. In solidarity, Michael E.
Thorstein Veblen on the fur trade and American Indians
In analyzing America's nineteenth century dilemma, Veblen concluded that vested interests did not bear their share of environmental costs because the "doing business" rationale of wealthy Americans caused rapid social losses for the nation at large. As an eyewitness to wasteful farming practices and to business domination of government, a situation which permitted the slaughter of buffalo and exploitation of the Indian in his time, Veblen provided a unique and penetrating assessment of what was going on in the United States. The various forms of "progress"-- the fur trading, mining, ranching, farming and oil drilling frontiers--Veblen understood as having produced huge social losses, almost impossible to calculate on a monetary basis. As Veblen wrote: "this American plan or policy is very simply a settled practice of converting all public wealth to private gain on a plan of legalized seizure." The scheme of converting public wealth to private gain gave impetus, Veblen argued, to the growth of slavery because of the development of one-crop agriculture on a large scale fueled by forced labor. Both agricultural and real estate speculation were aspects of this progressive confiscation of natural resources. The history of frontier expansion, Veblen maintained, was marked by the seizure of specific natural resources for privileged interests. There was a kind of order for the taking: what was most easily available for quick riches went first. After the despoliation of wildlife for fur trade wealth came the taking of gold and other precious minerals followed by the confiscation of timber, iron, other metals, oil, natural gas, water power, irrigation rights, and transportation right-of-ways. What was the result of such a shortsighted policy? The inevitable consequence, Veblen maintained, was the looting of the nation's nonrenewable resources to enrich the privileged few. The fur trade, Veblen said, represented this kind of exploitation and was "an unwritten chapter on the debauchery and manslaughter entailed upon the Indian population of the country." The sheer nastiness of this rotten business was such that it produced, according to Veblen, "the sclerosis of the American soul." (From Wilbur R. Jacobs "Indians as Ecologists and Other Environmental Themes in American Frontier History". This is in "American Indian Environments", edited by Christopher Vecsey and Robert W. Venables, Syracuse University, 1980. Highly recommended.) Louis Proyect
The situation in Cuba
Further to the (very interesting) discussion between Louis and Brian, the national CBC news had a piece last night showing Cuban women teachers and physicians being forced to engage in prostitution in order to supplement their meagre salaries. As they saw it, the choice was to allow their kids to beg on the streets, which they rejected. At the same time, there are huge dollar stores selling every imaginable luxury. Wage and salary differentials are mushrooming. Query: given the outrageous hostility of the States and the enormous economic difficulties facing Cuba today, how does allowing (encouraging?) increased income differentials (to the point where women are forced into prostitution) help address the underlying problems? In solidarity with the Cuban people, Sid PS -- please, Louis, try to address the substantive issues that I'm trying to raise without engaging in ad hominem attacks on me for raising them.
Re: Fidel religion, capital embargo
Brian Green: So let's cut through the talk and get to the reality -- Cuba is pursuing a logic very similar to those espoused by Canadian and US governments. And following that logic, its course of action is the same - cutback on workers' gains, bolster disiplinary institutions, and court private capital as 'partner'. I don;t buy it here, and I don't buy it in Cuba. Why bless your heart, young man. I thought that the youth of America were totally consumed with marihuana smoking, rap music, tattoos and body piercing. I admire your idealism. Please, go ahead and liberate Cuba. I wish you well. Just don't murder any innocent people. Even the guilty people, don't go much further than hollering at them. Violence sickens me. When you are done, can you please get the mess here in American straightened out. I am particularly upset with the quality of television shows. Frankly, I could never figure out what is the appeal of shows like "Friends." It appears to be nothing but people in their twenties sitting around in a living-room discussing their relationships to the accompaniment of canned laughter. You must have first-hand knowledge of people like this, don't you? I just don't understand them. Give me something like the old Sid Caesar show or the "Honeymooners" any day of the week. Louis Proyect
Re: Fidel religion, capital embargo
lifting the blockade is not going the be the death-knell of socialism in Cuba, because any meaningful socialism is already dead! Either dead or alive... Either black or white... Either good or bad... Learn to think dialectically, Brian. Socialism as it has existed - from the Soviet Union to Cuba - is dead, just as Keynesianism is dead. Does this mean there is no alternative?No. Does this mean that capital has won? Absolutely not, but it does mean that we need to move beyond structures that have had their day. I would never suggest that communism is a failed project, not for a minute; but I would suggest that the state capitalist variety of socialism we have seen in Cuba and elsewhere has had its day -- not in small part due to the active resistance of workers in Cuba and elsewhere. I simply don't know what other meaningful framework there is outside of the myriad of organizations--including Pastors for Peace--that maintain fraternal relations with the Cuban government. You really haven't provided a class analysis of the Cuban regime, Perhaps we don't have an existing framework; but perhaps, too, that is because our solidarity efforts have, up til now, been state-oriented -- in Cuba as in Nicaragua and elsewhere. And if our solidarity is funelled through the state, what do we do when the ostensibly 'socialist' regime begins a systematic attack on workers' rights? Do we continue to support the regime simply because we have no other phone numbers? Or do we at some point break with the old pattern of state-oriented solidarity and begin to strike out on a new path -- worker to worker. It may not be easy to get off the ground, it may not have the same financial totals, but a soldarity with workers themselves -- with the LEFT-wing Cuban dissidents, the independent unionists, the feminists, the queer activists, the African-Cuban movements -- this is where the life, the dynamism, the struggle of the Cuban working class is to be found, and this is also where our prioirties for solidarity should be. Make no mistake about it, the Cuban state has been attacking workers' hard-won rights. Certainly, it claims 'there is no alternative'; it claims that global capital forces these concessions; it claims that objective conditions in the world economy force a partnership with private capital. Well, sorry if this is out of line with conventional left-wing thinking, but I don't share the logic. When my liberal government negotiates the MAI behind closed doors and cuts unemployment benefits, all the while claiming "there is no alternative", I don't calmly accept it. When my social democratic provincial government slashes welfare benefits and scapegoats the poor for the deficit, all the while claiming "there is no alternative", I don't shun from the critique. So why should I react any differently when the Cuban regime spouts the same rhetoric, spews the same logic? Is not the very basis of Marxism the profound necessity to reject that logic, and to conceptualize a reality outside the boundaries of "there is no alternative"? I don't buy the argument that socialist regimes share the same fundamental interests as workers. I will support specific policies of a regime if those policies serve (for the moment) to increase the power of workers in relation to capital. Biut the minute I have to choose between supporting the struggle of working people and supporting a regime which claims to act in the best interests of the working class (all the while whittling away at workers' gains) I will stand against the regime -- the state's logic that 'there is no alternative" does not mean that Cuban workers stop resisting ever-increased imposition of work and ever-shrinking private and social wages. So let's cut through the talk and get to the reality -- Cuba is pursuing a logic very similar to those espoused by Canadian and US governments. And following that logic, its course of action is the same - cutback on workers' gains, bolster disiplinary institutions, and court private capital as 'partner'. I don;t buy it here, and I don't buy it in Cuba. Sorry. For I minute there I thought this list was actually a forum for critical debate. It is possible to criticize actually-existing socialism from within Marxism, and it is possible to carry on discussion of these issues without resorting to elementary-school name-calling. I wasn't calling you a name. I was simply commenting on your "on one hand, and the other hand" posture. This sort of punditry rather turns my stomach As the complete failure of so many Left-wingers to apply their critique equally to Cuba turns mine. Brian - Brian Green| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tad Szulc on Castro and the Pope
Paul Fitzgerald: It is interesting to note that Seymour Hersh states in The Dark Side of Camelot that Szulc was a central figure in CIA efforts to kill Castro during the Kennedy era. Why I believe you're right. As I recall, Oliver Stone dealt with this in one of the byzantine subplots of the uncut version of JFK, the movie. Paul Reubens, aka "PeeWee Herman", played Tad Szulc. Szulc meets with attorney Garrison, played by Kevin Costner to a fault, in a sex-club in Madison, Wisconsin run by an ex-Trotskyist who had secret ties to the Freemasons. This character is played by Chris Elliot, who is Bob Elliot's (of Bob and Ray fame) talented son. Do you remember when Chris Elliot played the demented character who used to pop out of the floor in the old Dave Letterman show on NBC? Boy, has the show gone downhill since he moved to CBS. I just can't stand the interviews with airhead actors promoting their next rotten flick. You might as well watch "Entertainment Tonight." Louis Proyect
