Re: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Mine Aysen Doyran wrote: the socio-biological claim that people differ because they differ genetically is called RACISM, which is what Wilson does eventually. This is the crux of the matter. If one supposes that culture is determined by genes, then one is left explaining cultural differences in terms of genetic differences. Different cultures, different people. If you claim that there are different types of people, you are making a racist argument. Andrew this is *exactly* Wilson! finally somebody has attempted to challenge socio-biology. i appreciate your contribution Andy!! where have you been lately? My problem is that why is this person popular among leftists so much given that he is a self-proclaimed anti-marxist. What makes Wilson so attractive and appealing to some people? and why? this the heart of the matter that seems worth looking at. why are the marxists critical of socio-biology are minority in every forum i have been to, and forced to declare their own scientific status? I get from your reading that there are "fundamental" problems with socio-biology? so one can not be, in principle, progressive and socio-biologist? am i right? Mine
Re: Re: past and future of multilateral institutions (fwd)
G'day Mine - and all you IPEs, This reading and other considerations make me hope that April 16thers will also direct their attention to the panoply of forces to which the WB/IMF are themselves subject: Just wondering - Do we still speak of the Bilderbergers and Trilateral Commission in this connection (as Gill and van der Pijl did) - or is this now in the much-ado-about-nothing basket? Cheers, Rob.
RE: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
Brad,can you please read the rest of Steve's post, or the sentence that prior to the sentence you cite? since Steve is not here, I can not talk on behalf of him, but his work is an excellent piece in Marxian sociology. Here's a precious snippet from this nitwit (Steve Rosenthal) from a couple of years ago: . . . This line of attack against the Clintonites is being led by Dick Gephardt and the business and big labor forces behind him. The Economic Policy Institute (EPI), whose funding comes from the Rockefeller Foundation, C.S. Mott (GM), Russell Sage (Cabot gas and banking money), sets forth the line Gephardt has been offering . . . http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/psn/jan98/0072.html No I don't save this stuff. I remembered since I wrote a reply (which he didn't answer), and I thought I would see if I could find it quickly with Google. Came up instantly. Google rules. mbs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
In a message dated 00-04-09 00:04:25 EDT, you write: the socio-biological claim that people differ because they differ genetically is called RACISM, No it's not. It would be racist (and genetically illiterate, for the most part) to say that some groups of people are inferior to another because of their genes, but it is not racist to say, for example, that Black people are different in the color of their skin from whites in large part because of their genes. That is just true. Genes are causally efficaous; they do account for some of the variation in differences between groups and individuals, and anyone who denies that has no idea what he is talking about. --jks
Re: genome news (fwd)
. . . This line of attack against the Clintonites is being led by Dick Gephardt and the business and big labor forces behind him. The Economic Policy Institute (EPI), whose funding comes from the Rockefeller Foundation, C.S. Mott (GM), Russell Sage (Cabot gas and banking money), sets forth the line Gephardt has been offering . . . From what I can gather, the policies of EPI are determined more by the AFL-CIO bigwigs on the board rather than the philanthropic establishment. But I would have assumed that EPI, following the lead of similar groups such as the Sierra Club and Public Citizen, does not disclose the identity of major donors. As far as getting funding from Stuart Mott and the Rockefeller Foundation is concerned, virtually the entire liberal left is implicated, from the Nation Magazine to all of the mainstream Green groups. For that matter, my own organization was always hitting up Mott and the Rockefellers, as well as the Ford Foundation. Sort of like Lenin taking a ride on a German train. Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
part of what has made "race" -- and "gender" for that matter -- so confused, etc. is that it regards the *social* assignment of meaning to traits that are biologically inherited-- so people say "what are talking about, of course gender is biological" because we see anatomical differences, but the meaning of those differences is what is socially constructed. people have had a hard time making these distinctions. so we either get the pure social constructionist position, and some people feel uneasy about that because they see anatomical differences, or we get the other extreme and people know that isn't right. racism takes physiognomic differences and assigns social meaning to them. the meaning is arbitrary and socially constructed and has no basis in anatomy or biology, etc. but there are biological reasons for having whatever color hair you have, etc. of course, now it is possible to change one's biological features, too, so sex changes, and lightening skin color, and etc., and this has to be dealt with and factored in. but constructing discrete categories out of what is essentially a continuum (skin shades) is pure social construction, but a social construction that is mediated by physiognamy? I still think Harry Chang in the special issue of Review of Radical Political Economics had this right how many years ago now, but we are still going around in circles some of us some of the time on all this. Of course, Chang wasn't the only one or the first or anything. the discussion below is still sloppy in these regards, because, e.g., the sentence that includes the categories "Black people" and "whites" uncritically assumes that these term themselves are unproblematic with regard to the very issues the sentence is discussing. which individuals end up in the "Black" category and the "white" category depends. so it is true that the shade of one's skin is biological but the categories that are mediated by this are not, and either is the social meaning assigned to them. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, April 09, 2000 10:46 AM Subject: [PEN-L:17872] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd) In a message dated 00-04-09 00:04:25 EDT, you write: the socio-biological claim that people differ because they differ genetically is called RACISM, No it's not. It would be racist (and genetically illiterate, for the most part) to say that some groups of people are inferior to another because of their genes, but it is not racist to say, for example, that Black people are different in the color of their skin from whites in large part because of their genes. That is just true. Genes are causally efficaous; they do account for some of the variation in differences between groups and individuals, and anyone who denies that has no idea what he is talking about. --jks
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
In a message dated 00-04-09 12:38:32 EDT, you write: the sentence that includes the categories "Black people" and "whites" uncritically assumes that these term themselves are unproblematic with regard to the very issues the sentence is discussing. which individuals end up in the "Black" category and the "white" category depends. so it is true that the shade of one's skin is biological but the categories that are mediated by this are not, and either is the social meaning assigned to them. Don't assume any such thing. Of course I am aware of the social contruction of race, and I don't uncritically assume anything. I also don't need to do the dance every time I use a loaded word,a t least, I hope, in this context. Among people to whom the social construction of race might bea new thought, I'd emphasize it. Here, I might have hoped that I could take it for granted. How very foolish of me. I might have said, I briefly contemplated it, that malinin content avrirs with geographic origin; that genetics explains why people from subSaharan Africa have darker skins, because of higher melanin content, on average, than people fron Northern Europe. But it is tiresome, particularly when one is talking about race, to pretend that one is not. Political correctness is very boring. Incidentally, when I use the word "group" or "race"; I am not implying anything about a class of persons constututed by some feature entirely apart from human choice and conventions. I am not, in other words, being "essentialist." (Boo, hiss.) Racism is not a matter of talking as if people are divided into differenbt groups,a nymore than it is natioanlsit of me to talk about Americans, Sudanese, French. It is a matter of buying into certain assumptions abour superiority, inferiority, entitlement, etc. These assumptions need not be tied to any beliefs about genetics or "blood"--cultural racism is pretty common. --jks
Re: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
This is the heart of the matter; very clear and to the point! Andrew Wayne Austin wrote: I do not believe sociobiology can be progressive. It is inherently reactionary, no matter what spin its advocates put to it. And even if we could put politics aside (in some theoretical world) it is flat-earth science. Why do I think self-described leftists subscribe to the view? Some, I think, are liberals claiming to be leftist. Others I know, including Marxists, believe that everything operates on the principle of the vulgar dialectic and that the phantoms of the brain reflect some physiological process. They misunderstand Marxian materialism. For Marx, materialism is the world human beings build through their collective activities and their social being that is realized through the construction of that world. Vulgar materialism is a species of physicalism. There are others still who wish to articulate a vision of human nature where the individual is altruistic (a nature undermined by capitalism). These people do not disagree with the search for a human nature, only with the human nature Wilson and others come up with. This is an ideological position, however more desirable an altruistic nature is over a selfish one. Of course, there is no human nature, since being human is to stand at the intersection of an assemblage of social and historical relations. I think the processual frightens the hell out of some people, and they want that one essential truth that will give them ontological security. The hard empirical body seems to afford them that truth. But this is an illusion. Andrew On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Mine Aysen Doyran wrote: the socio-biological claim that people differ because they differ genetically is called RACISM, which is what Wilson does eventually. This is the crux of the matter. If one supposes that culture is determined by genes, then one is left explaining cultural differences in terms of genetic differences. Different cultures, different people. If you claim that there are different types of people, you are making a racist argument. Andrew this is *exactly* Wilson! finally somebody has attempted to challenge socio-biology. i appreciate your contribution Andy!! where have you been lately? My problem is that why is this person popular among leftists so much given that he is a self-proclaimed anti-marxist. What makes Wilson so attractive and appealing to some people? and why? this the heart of the matter that seems worth looking at. why are the marxists critical of socio-biology are minority in every forum i have been to, and forced to declare their own scientific status? I get from your reading that there are "fundamental" problems with socio-biology? so one can not be, in principle, progressive and socio-biologist? am i right? Mine
Getting to meet you in San Francisco
I'm going to be giving a discussion of my book, Class Warfare in the Information Age, at Modern Times bookstore on Valencia Street in San Francisco on the 20th of April at 7:00. This event gives me the opportunity to make some of my cyber-friends from this list. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: Getting to meet you in San Francisco
Michael, I have it on my calendar and if I'm not traveling I'm looking forward to hearing you. I already own your book, so don't dream of a sale. And thanks for the quick response re Hicks -- very appreciated. Gene Michael Perelman wrote: I'm going to be giving a discussion of my book, Class Warfare in the Information Age, at Modern Times bookstore on Valencia Street in San Francisco on the 20th of April at 7:00. This event gives me the opportunity to make some of my cyber-friends from this list. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
RE: Getting to meet you in San Francisco
I'm going to be giving a discussion of my book, Class Warfare in the Information Age, at Modern Times bookstore on Valencia Street in San Francisco on the 20th of April at 7:00. This event gives me the opportunity to make some of my cyber-friends from this list. Michael Perelman You are not without your own bohemian charisma, but that's a little presumptuous, dontcha think? mbs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the expression political economy (fwd)
Mine wrote: However,as you know, there are some Marxists in the Marxist tradition who uncritically subcribe to the notions of "orthodox" economics and free market capitalism. This, I would charecterize as economic determinism, has interesting commonalities with liberal economics since it treats capitalism somewhat theologically and mechanistically. The typical "theory of stages" argument says that we should let the market forces operate untill capitalism unleashes itself. Any intervention in markets is seen as postponing the collapse of capitalism. so as the argument goes, this tradition still emphasizes the primacy of economic laws rather than revolutionary unity of theory and practice, which is so central to Marx's thinking. is such a distortion of Marx unique to economics dicipline in general? I have not seen, for example, such a religious reliance on markets in other diciplinary discussions on political economy of capitalism The problem is that 'markets' are just one institution in the political economic organization of society. Markets existed in pre-capitalist societies, organized exchange occurred amoung aboriginal tribes in North America long before contact with Europeans and the expansion of merchant capitalism, markets existed in the USSR and eastern Europe under central planning, markets were a characteristic of medieval Europe, etc. etc. Polanyi makes this the central thesis of _The Great Transformation_. Prior to industrial capitalism, he argues, markets were imbedded in society, meaning in part that markets were controlled by society to reflect social institutions and values and maintain the social status quo. (hence, for instance, the laws on usury, on engrossing, on fair price, etc.) In other societies, ultimate control on the distributive inbalances of markets were repealed by Jubilees, potlaches, etc. The great transformation -- the triumph of capitalism -- comes with the subjugation of society to "free markets", that is that instead of markets being embedded in society and used as an institution to facilitate production that reflects prevailing social values, society becomes an institution that reflects the values determined by markets. In the ultimate, the market replaces society as in Maggie's infamous dictate, "there is no such thing as society, only individuals." The Canadian political economy basically takes of from this point. The 'father' of the tradition, Harold Innis, was highly influenced by Veblen. In one of his most interesting articles, he makes the statement (this is by memory so is not exact) that, in new countries like Canada (he is writing in the 20s), we must discard the economic theory of the old countries and develop new economic theory appropriate to conditions in Canada. The theory of the old countries (i.e. Britain) are exploitative of the new. His 'new' theory has become known as the 'staple theory' such that he argues that society is shaped by the institutions and economic aspects of development of the leading, natural resource, export- based economic sector. Markets are one aspect of this, but more important, particularly for some of the other major staple 'theorists', like Fowke (Rod take note), Creighton, Buckley, and including Naylor, was the balance of class power which determined the distribution of income and wealth and of the 'spread' and 'backwash' effects of economic expansion. I think the most important aspect of understanding this approach to political economy is understanding the nature and location of power in society and how this was manifest in the material (economic) development of Canada. In the early part of Canadian history, the staple industries that shaped the political and social institutions were TRADES (Cod, fur, timber, wheat) which were heavy users of _commercial capital_ and hence, power was dominated by commercial capital who used this dominance to control political institutions and the distribution of political power. It also determined ultimately the political, religious elite. (See for example, Creighton's _The Commercial Empire of the St. Lawrence, or Tom Naylor's _History of Canadian Business_. When economic development turned to railroads and the grainhandling system and settlement, power gravitated to the hands of financial capital (not industrial capital as many Marxists assume) which lead to the control of the elite by the bankers, insurance and mortgage companies, etc. Now, the Canadian political economy tradition gradually split into two camps, the liberal camp that followed from the economist Mackintosh and, as Mine suggests, reflected a very mechanistic, non-class based, non-power based analysis -- markets for staples as conditioned by policies and institutions reflecting existing political alliances and interests (and those inherited from Britain and shaped by American influences) determined the course of, and distribution
Re: genome news (fwd)
Title: Re: genome news (fwd) Greetings Economists, JKS writes in reply to Mines, JKS, No it's not. It would be racist (and genetically illiterate, for the most part) to say that some groups of people are inferior to another because of their genes, but it is not racist to say, for example, that Black people are different in the color of their skin from whites in large part because of their genes. That is just true. Genes are causally efficaous; they do account for some of the variation in differences between groups and individuals, and anyone who denies that has no idea what he is talking about. Doyle The theory of sociobiology is that genes control behavior. In other words any social group are the way they are because of their genes. Is that true? Well you say above that is not true (falsifiable in the traditional sense of the words in science). Let's look at Mine's comment again, Mine the socio-biological claim that people differ because they differ genetically is called RACISM, Doyle JKS says anyone who claims sociobiology does not assert control over the human social behavior has no idea what he is talking about. And I have no idea from JKS what exactly makes him different from Sociobiology. If I pick up a book on evolutionary psychology is that not the whole thrust of their theory? See The Adapted Mind, Evolutionary Psychology and the Generation of Culture, Jerome H. Barkow Leda Cosmides, John Tooby, Oxford University Press, 1992. In replying to M. Forstater, JKS writes, JKS Don't assume any such thing. Of course I am aware of the social contruction of race, and I don't uncritically assume anything. I also don't need to do the dance every time I use a loaded word,a t least, I hope, in this context. Among people to whom the social construction of race might bea new thought, I'd emphasize it. Here, I might have hoped that I could take it for granted. How very foolish of me. I might have said, I briefly contemplated it, that malinin content avrirs with geographic origin; that genetics explains why people from subSaharan Africa have darker skins, because of higher melanin content, on average, than people fron Northern Europe. But it is tiresome, particularly when one is talking about race, to pretend that one is not. Political correctness is very boring. Doyle Your comments do not explain black skin, because you don't understand genetics or you wouldn't so loosely assert something about black skins. When groups are relatively isolated from each other there are directions to that in changes arising or falling in a pool in relation to other pools otherwise related to the isolate, selection may make dark skin arise, and it may not according to a climate, because the source of change is contingent. Color vision in primates is interesting in that sense. But not in the crude way you articulate your views. That is why arguments such as yours fade away in time in the sciences because they are not sufficiently accurate and practical in understanding reality. In current times when all the human community intermarries there is not going to be a geographic origin to skin color and your point seems just plain Eurocentric to others. Which comes first, light or dark in skin? What about a Baboon's blue ass, why aren't humans blue skinned, since they are our relatives too. And your point is just how you insert yourself into this argument when you have no sense what so ever that Mine's outrage is justified and important about the re-rise of socio-biology under the name evolutionary psychology. Your remarks are as sloppy as you accuse Mine of being. thanks, Doyle Saylor
RE: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
Brad,can you please read the rest of Steve's post, or the sentence that prior to the sentence you cite? since Steve is not here, I can not talk on behalf of him, but his work is an excellent piece in Marxian sociology. Here's a precious snippet from this nitwit (Steve Rosenthal) from a couple of years ago: . . . This line of attack against the Clintonites is being led by Dick Gephardt and the business and big labor forces behind him. The Economic Policy Institute (EPI), whose funding comes from the Rockefeller Foundation, C.S. Mott (GM), Russell Sage (Cabot gas and banking money), sets forth the line Gephardt has been offering . . . http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/psn/jan98/0072.html No I don't save this stuff. I remembered since I wrote a reply (which he didn't answer), and I thought I would see if I could find it quickly with Google. Came up instantly. Google rules. mbs Max, I appreciate the information you found in the archives of the list. however, Steven Rosenthal is not here so I can not make speculations about him. moreover, I don't know the context of the discussion between you and him. It does not seem fair to me to interpret somebody else's citation out of context, also because i don't have time (seriously!) to go over past posts one by one. What I understand is that Economic Policy Institute may have a finger in socio-biological research in a similar way to Human genome project conducted by the Clinton administration. Liberal position (as well as liberal leftist type) on socio-biology is very clear. Their liberal leftism does not excuse their implicit racism. These people think "scientific" exploration of biological differences can help cure 1)certain diseases, physical and mental disorders. 2) can help promote an understanding of "individual differences" for achieving a democratic pluralist society. If I have a child scored a high degree in IQ test, let's say in humanities, I am supposed to send her to a liberal arts college.So the argument locates mental achievement in genetics, rather than looking at the social, class and gender envioroment of the people. thus, it is class, race and gender blind. I reject this argument becasue once you "presuppose" certain biological differences, you are inevitably left with "explaining" those differences or "attributing a meaning to them", so they will inevitably be politicized or create a discourse of the "other", essentialized identities, as Andy rightly said, "different people, different cultures", irrational people, rational people, bla, bla.. Given that we are not living under ideal circumstances, but in a society charecterized by all sorts of stratificaitons, politics always underwrites biology. Just as allocation of resources is a "political act" which vulgar economism conceals that it is not, production of scientific knowledge is too a political act. One can not seperate the two. Let's stick with the original article written by Steven Rosenthal "How Science is Perverted to Build Fascism: A Marxist Critique of E.O. Wilson's Consilience: The Unity of Knowledge." If you disagree with this article, we can talk about the specifics. these are my last comments on this issue.I say no kudos to biological and cultural racism! thanx.. Mine
The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 7 Apr 2000 -- 4:30 (#411)
__ The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 7 April 2000 Vol. 4, Number 30 (#411) __ CONTENTS Updates to Latest Readings Web Sites of Interest: Disability Holocaust Project Dispute Over "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" Kristi Heim (San Jose Mercury News), "Online booksellers post disclaimer on disputed work," 30 Mar 00 Greg Butterfield, "amazon.com Promotes Fascist Book," 3 Apr 00 What's Worth Checking: 10 stories -- UPDATES TO LATEST READINGS The latest anti-fascist readings at http://www.anti-fascism.org have been updated to include: Antifa Info-Bulletin (#244) 2 Apr 00 Tom Burghardt's publication from the U.S. west coast. GLAAD Alert 30 Mar 00 The regular online newsletter from the Gay Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. Immigration News Briefs (#3:3) Mar 00 A monthly supplement to Weekly News Update on the Americas UNITED for Intercultural Action's E-News 28 Mar 00 E-zine from the European network against nationalism, racism, fascism and in support of migrants and refugees. -- WEB SITES OF INTEREST: Disability Holocaust Project http://www.dralegal.org/disability_holocaust/ "During the Holocaust, people with disabilities were the first to be taken away. Yet the world has ignored the fact that Germany, before its terrible campaign against the Jewish people, systematically tried to exterminate all people with disabilities. This omission also has profound contemporary significance. Throughout the world today, people with disabilities lead lives of exclusion and poverty, pushed to the margins of society and segregated by architectural and attitudinal barriers. Moreover, many current and even fashionable notions concerning disability echo the mind set which fueled the Nazi horrors. "The Disability Holocaust Project has two main purposes. It will bring to world attention the systematic, compulsory sterilization and mass extermination of over three-quarters of a million people with disabilities during the Holocaust. At the same time, it will raise the level of international awareness about the current desperate plight of people with disabilities, particularly in Central and Eastern Europe." -- Online booksellers post disclaimer on disputed work Kristi Heim (San Jose Mercury News) 30 Mar 00 Amazon.com and Barnesandnoble.com on Wednesday took the unprecedented step of posting a disclaimer from the Anti-Defamation League that criticizes a book they are selling as an anti-Semitic forgery and tool of hate groups. The book, "The Protocol of the Elders of Zion," is believed by many historians to be a document forged by Russia's secret police in the 19th century to provoke anti-Semitic sentiment. It claims to reveal a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. The book has been sold in online and offline bookstores for years, but a favorable excerpt written by its publisher touched off an e-mail campaign calling on the companies to remove the book or add a disclaimer in its description. Although the companies stopped short of removing the book from their sites, their actions are stirring a debate about how far commercial Web sites should go to regulate the material they sell or post. Deborah Pierce, staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an online civil rights group, said the precedent could lead to any number of groups seeking similar disclaimers on material they found offensive, such as abortion. "This is an easy case," she said. "Most people would find this book distasteful. But what happens when you get to things that have a little less consensus? Where do we draw that line?" The Internet's other major bookseller, Borders.com, insists it won't bow to pressure to add such disclaimers to its titles. "There are times when our customers disagree with our decision to carry a certain book. That's to be expected in a world where there's so many points of view and competing interests," said site editor Rich Fahle. But the ADL argues that online retailers have a responsibility to offer "guidance" to Internet users who may not know what they're buying. "The Net is a very personal and individual thing," said national director Abraham H. Foxman. "How do you alert the innocent that they're entering a hate zone? People may think that it's a very legitimate book." The ADL contacted the booksellers after receiving hundreds of complaints, he said. The controversy started after Amazon.com posted an excerpt from the book's publisher, Book Tree Press, that suggested the book's claims might be valid. "If `The Protocols' are genuine (which can never be proven
Re: Re: Re: Re: the expression political economy
Ted wrote: For these purposes, the category "bourgeois thinker" is not merely not helpful it's disabling since it prevents us from examining ideas with what Keynes and Gadamer call "good will". Mine didn't use the phrase "bourgeois thinker," but I agree: one can learn from people like Keynes. Keynes fills in a lot of gaps in Marx's vision of macroeconomics, for example. Even an anti-Semite and eugenicist like Irving Fisher had some good things to say, e.g., his theory of debt deflation-driven depressions. Even Milton Friedman has a couple of things to say, as when he clarifies neoclassical theory so we know better what it is we oppose. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine/JDevine.html
Re: Bolivia declares emergency over protests - April 8, 2000
At 04:01 PM 04/08/2000 -1000, you wrote: You have to scroll down a bit to get to the story, but it's worth reading. Steve Subject: CNN.com - Bolivia declares emergency over protests - April 8, 2000 Steve, please don't send the whole web page to us. My PC keeps wanting to log onto the actual web-site for me. Since I'm using log-in networking from home, I don't always want to do so. Often I can't, as when my wife is logged on using the same line. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine/JDevine.html
Re: Re: Re: Re: Marshall
As far as dialectics and Marshall are concerned. In a sense there is a dialectic in Marshall. He is one of the few economists of his time who took seriously the interaction of supply and demand. Most of his contemporaries tried to reduce everything to subjective utility evaluations. And if supply was considered it was a static given upon which demand acted. Marshall's conceptions of SD are better than what shows up in textbooks, in the sense that he distinguishes between the market period, the short run, etc. But as I understand him (as a total amateur in the histothought biz), S and D start being completely separate from each other and then interact. In a dialectical perspective, they would be seen as parts of a unified system, internally related. I guess that's the perspective of general equilibrium, but of course, GE rejects dynamics of any real-world sort. BTW, pen-l's Brad DeLong has an op-ed piece in the Opinion section of today's L.A. TIMES on anti-trust Microsoft (at http://www.latimes.com/print/opinion/2409/t33200.html, a web-address that will expire soon). I don't know enough about those subjects to comment. The first two paragraphs follow: Is Big Bad? Antitrust law must constantly adapt to the changing nature of monopoly. But the economic effects of monopoly are shifting as well. Consider Microsoft. By J. BRADFORD DE LONG BERKELEY--Monday, Federal Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson found as a matter of law that Microsoft had violated the 110-year-old Sherman Antitrust Act. He will now begin the process of determining what remedy will be granted to repair the damage done by this illegal restraint of trade. It may be that this decision, shocking to the high-tech sector's stock-market valuation as it was, will wind up as a footnote. For, five years ago, Microsoft, with its dominance of desktop operating systems and productivity applications, was at the heart of America's high-tech economy. But today, because of the remarkable rate of change, the heart of the high-tech economy is the network. It is at least arguable that the key is now in the hands of physical-network companies like ATT, data-delivery companies like Akamai Technologies, database companies like Oracle, Internet-access providers like America Online and the communities of open-source programmers who maintain and develop the Linux operating system and the Apache Web server. So what happens to Microsoft, specifically, is no longer as critical. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine/JDevine.html
RE: RE: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
MD: . . . What I understand is that Economic Policy Institute may have a finger in socio-biological research . . . We don't do sociology we don't do biology. I would wager that the word 'socio-biology' does not appear in one EPI publication. I don't even know what it means, but if you don't like it, I probably wouldn't either. cheers, mbs
Re: genome news (fwd)
Doyle,I agree! you too are getting the heart of the matter.. actually, check out the articles in _Mankind Quartely_, a journal edited by Roger Pearson, and its liberal co-associate JCPES. see especially the one called _Virtues in Racism_. the man is implying that it is not racist to say that people differ because they differ genetically. It is somewhat treathening to see how the liberal rhetoric of "individual differences" relies on geneticist arguments to justify a morality of ethics of difference! another one published by a Washington policy analyst "boldly" says that affirmative action has erased our differences, and created a society of equals and conformity. See how equality is equated there with "confirmity and sameness" and genetics is praised for celebrating difference. Basically, you will find this as an interesting example on post-modern version of right wing and neo-liberalism, which approves my claim that socio-biology is inherently a reactionary science. Mine -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 11:02:54 -0700 From: Doyle Saylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:17884] Re: genome news (fwd) Greetings Economists, JKS writes in reply to Mines, JKS, No it's not. It would be racist (and genetically illiterate, for the most part) to say that some groups of people are inferior to another because of their genes, but it is not racist to say, for example, that Black people are different in the color of their skin from whites in large part because of their genes. That is just true. Genes are causally efficaous; they do account for some of the variation in differences between groups and individuals, and anyone who denies that has no idea what he is talking about. Doyle The theory of sociobiology is that genes control behavior. In other words any social group are the way they are because of their genes. Is that true? Well you say above that is not true (falsifiable in the traditional sense of the words in science). Let's look at Mine's comment again, Mine the socio-biological claim that people differ because they differ genetically is called RACISM, Doyle JKS says anyone who claims sociobiology does not assert control over the human social behavior has no idea what he is talking about. And I have no idea from JKS what exactly makes him different from Sociobiology. If I pick up a book on evolutionary psychology is that not the whole thrust of their theory? See "The Adapted Mind, Evolutionary Psychology and the Generation of Culture", Jerome H. Barkow Leda Cosmides, John Tooby, Oxford University Press, 1992. In replying to M. Forstater, JKS writes, JKS Don't assume any such thing. Of course I am aware of the social contruction of race, and I don't uncritically assume anything. I also don't need to do the dance every time I use a loaded word,a t least, I hope, in this context. Among people to whom the social construction of race might bea new thought, I'd emphasize it. Here, I might have hoped that I could take it for granted. How very foolish of me. I might have said, I briefly contemplated it, that malinin content avrirs with geographic origin; that genetics explains why people from subSaharan Africa have darker skins, because of higher melanin content, on average, than people fron Northern Europe. But it is tiresome, particularly when one is talking about race, to pretend that one is not. Political correctness is very boring. Doyle Your comments do not explain "black" skin, because you don't understand genetics or you wouldn't so loosely assert something about black skins. When groups are relatively isolated from each other there are directions to that in changes arising or falling in a pool in relation to other pools otherwise related to the isolate, selection may make dark skin arise, and it may not according to a climate, because the source of change is contingent. Color vision in primates is interesting in that sense. But not in the crude way you articulate your views. That is why arguments such as yours fade away in time in the sciences because they are not sufficiently accurate and practical in understanding reality. In current times when all the human community intermarries there is not going to be a geographic origin to skin color and your point seems just plain Eurocentric to others. Which comes first, light or dark in skin? What about a Baboon's blue ass, why aren't humans blue skinned, since they are our relatives too. And your point is just how you insert yourself into this argument when you have no sense what so ever that Mine's outrage is justified and important about the re-rise of socio-biology under the name evolutionary psychology. Your remarks are as sloppy as you accuse Mine of being. thanks, Doyle Saylor
Re: Re: Getting to meet you in San Francisco
excellent! I don't expect any sales anyway. Eugene Coyle wrote: Michael, I have it on my calendar and if I'm not traveling I'm looking forward to hearing you. I already own your book, so don't dream of a sale. And thanks for the quick response re Hicks -- very appreciated. Gene Michael Perelman wrote: I'm going to be giving a discussion of my book, Class Warfare in the Information Age, at Modern Times bookstore on Valencia Street in San Francisco on the 20th of April at 7:00. This event gives me the opportunity to make some of my cyber-friends from this list. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901 -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: Getting to meet you in San Francisco
I did not think that it was presumptious. I very much enjoy it when I get to meet people from the lists whom i have never met. Once I got to meet you and Louis Proyect within 5 minutes -- an experience that I will not forget. As for charisma, I studied very hard under Al Gore, so I appreciate your recognition of my accomplishment. "Max B. Sawicky" wrote: I'm going to be giving a discussion of my book, Class Warfare in the Information Age, at Modern Times bookstore on Valencia Street in San Francisco on the 20th of April at 7:00. This event gives me the opportunity to make some of my cyber-friends from this list. Michael Perelman You are not without your own bohemian charisma, but that's a little presumptuous, dontcha think? mbs -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
NEGATIVE net issuance of equity since 1994?
I happened to be perusing the FOF (March 2000) and came across something a bit surprising. Since 1994, the net value of stock issues in the U.S. has been negative. Of course this series was negative during the LBO mania of the late 1980s, but I wouldn't have expected that to be the case now. (I realize that IPO's are a small fraction of the market, but still.) Does this reflect some idyosyncracy of the Fed's accounting? If not, how do we account for this? -- Barnet Wagman email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NEGATIVE net issuance of equity since 1994?
Could that be because the figure includes stock by-backs, which Doug Henwood has been reminding us exceed stock issuance? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Annan blames Ethiopia... (fwd)
Agence France Presse April 9, 2000, Sunday 4:09 AM, Eastern Time SECTION: International news LENGTH: 329 words HEADLINE: Kofi Annan criticises Ethiopian government for delayed aid DATELINE: LONDON, April 9 BODY: UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan defended the international community from charges that it has failed to supply sufficient aid to famine victims in Ethiopia, suggesting in an interview with the Sunday Times that Addis Ababa may be partly to blame for delays in food relief. "There has been an adequate response by the world. We have had food supplies there," Annan said, adding: "They have not been distributed properly," said Annan. "It is a tough terrain and Ethiopia is a huge country, but the government could have done a better job of distribution." Around eight million people in Ethiopia are estimated to be facing starvation after three years of drought which has dried out most wells and killed much of the region's livestock. Ethiopian authorities have claimed that a delayed international response to the famine has depleted emergency food stocks and prevented the rapid distribution of aid. According to UNICEF, around 900,000 tonnes of emergency food supplies are urgently needed. But Annan maintained that a swift response to the famine had been impeded by a sporadic border war between Ethiopia and Eritrea that has caused thousands of deaths since May 1998 and closed many access routes to afflicted areas, particularly in the parched south-east of Ethiopia. "The World Food Programme wants to use the Eritrean port of Massawa for supplies, but it is closed by war," he said. Annan went on to make a stinging attack on Africa's political leaders, accusing them of avarice, megalomania and failure to work towards better living conditions in their countries. "The quality of the leaders, the misery they have brought to their people and my inability to work with them to turn the situation around are very depressing," he declared. "Unless we find a way of getting them to focus on resolving conflicts and turn to key issues of economic and social development, the efforts that we are all making will be for naught." == The Indian Ocean Newsletter April 8, 2000 SECTION: POLITICS POWER; ETHIOPIA; N. 899 LENGTH: 309 words HEADLINE: Military preparations continue BODY: Apart from the purchase of four SU-25 fighters from Shturmovik Sukhovo which the Russian firm revealed on April 3, the Ethiopian army has equipped itself with 90 Ural military vehicles purchased in Russia. The jet fighters are two SU-25T equipped for anti-tank operations and two SU-UB training aircraft. The Urals have been reconditioned in a military workshop in Addis Ababa and sent to the front at Bure. The army has also taken delivery of brand-new MI-24 helicopters bought from Russia and now stationed at Debre Zeit air force base, and training course on these aircraft are being given to Ethiopian pilots on the old Addis airport. Last week, a Russian pilot, his Ethiopian student pilot and a senior Ethiopian mechanic were reported killed when the helicopter they were in crashed near Addis Ababa. Similar training has been carried out at Bahr Dar and Mekele, in northern Ethiopia, with about a dozen Russian pilots billetted at the Ghion hotel in Bahr Dar. Military training has also resumed on the front, particularly at Barra camp, near Sheraro, where young officer cadets are going through a three-month refresher course. Although these military preparations are going on, the food supply being taken to the Ethiopian front lines is not dry rations but flour, teff and sorghum, suggesting a defensive and stationary choice. I.O.N. - Cases of desertion are not rare on both sides of the front. A group of Ethiopian Amhara soldiers which deserted recently at Bure put up an unusual reason by claiming that they were members of the pro-government ANDM (ex-EPDM) movement headed Tamrat Layne (the ex-prime minister just sentenced to eighteen years prison for alleged corruption). They said they had been victims of ethnic discriminations by Tigray People's Liberation Front (TPLF, the hard -core of EPRDF ruling in Addis Ababa). __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
guns, germs, steel
(book review) I've finally finished with a very long (425 pages) but extremely interesting, well-written, and informative book of archaeology and anthropology, Jared Diamond's GUNS, GERMS, AND STEEL (Norton, 1997). The book argues for a reasonable theory about why the occupants of Eurasia have conquered the other continents (especially the New World) during the last 500+ years rather than being conquered by the rest of the world. In the end, we of Eurasian extraction were _lucky_, having the right kind of geography, access to wild plants and animals that could be domesticated, plus a relatively small number of ecological or geographical barriers which allowed diffusion through trade, migration, or conquest. This allowed us to grow in population, grow geographically, and take over almost all of the world. BTW, Brad DeLong has a good review of the book at http://econ161.berkeley.edu/Econ_Articles/Reviews/diamond_guns.html. As he notes, the book is "truly a work of complete of total genius." He's at least a genius at synthesizing others' research. But not being a professional archeologists or anthropologist, I don't know how original this book is. (I've heard rumblings that say the book "isn't new," though that may be a protective response to a field being invaded by a non-specialist.) One thing that is clear from the beginning is that Diamond, despite his origins and his residence (here in L.A.), makes a big effort to avoid Eurocentrism. In a strange way, he comes off "New Guinea" centric instead, even asserting that he thinks the residents of the New Guinea highlands are superior to us White Americans. He doesn't see the Eurasian conquest as a good thing, though he does see it as one example of a more general phenomenon that includes the Austronesian conquest of much of Southeast Asia, the Bantu conquest of most of sub-Saharan Africa, and the Maori conquest of the Morioris in the Chatham Islands in 1835. And as Brad says, the book really doesn't explain why those from Europe have dominated the rest of Eurasia during the last 500+ years. Diamond's focus is on broadly defined ecological zones (roughly, continents). For example, he defines Eurasia as including North Africa. His time scale is even broader, dealing with the 13,000-year time period before 1600 C.E. (A.D.) or so. Diamond's theory is ecological, inspired by evolutionary biology. At one point he summarizes it as embracing "geographical determinism," though that determinism is at a very abstract level over very long periods of time, leaving a lot of wiggle-room for specific differences in different areas and time periods. To summarize his story, it's a bit like the spread of "opportunistic species" of plants and animals (like those invading Hawaii now or the "killer bees" entering my neck of the woods), taking over all other possible geographical zones. As I read the book, I began to think more and more of a quote from Stephen J. Gould's concerning the worldwide spread of McDonald's and similar restaurants. It "introduces standardization at the wrong level by usurping the smaller spaces of immediate and daily use, the places that cry out for local distinction and an attendant sense of community. McDonald's is a flock of pigeons ordering all endemic birds to the block, a horde of rats wiping out all the mice, gerbils, hamsters, chinchillas, squirrels, beavers, and capybaras" (EIGHT LITTLE PIGGIES, p. 244). When I looked up the quote, I found the reference to rats and pigeons was not a description of fact. But the real world seems to imitate Gould's fantasy: the process of urbanization seems to wipe out all sorts of native species, allowing the pigeons to take over. International transportation allows the spread of fire ants, "Dutch" elm disease, and various weeds and germs, that wipe out or out-compete native species, so that eventually we'll see pretty much the same plants and animals ruling the roost in similar ecologies all around the world. Human cultures and technologies follow a similar pattern, while bringing opportunistic flora, fauna, and microbes with them. (You can see why I don't think he's Eurocentric.) Though genetics plays a role in Diamond's theory, he basically assumes that all varieties of humanity and culture are equal in their inherent or biological ability to innovate and spread world-wide. Further, the Eurasian conquest, like related conquests, wasn't done through a Darwinian process of competition of species and propagation via genetics as much as through competition of ethnic groups and propagation via organizational and technological advantage. The development of agriculture created an advantage over the surviving hunter-gatherers, so that the hunter-gatherers were shoved aside into the hinterlands. Farmers -- especially those with access to a wide variety of wild seeds and potential load-bearing animals -- could produce surpluses, encouraging the
Re: guns, germs, steel
Jim Devine wrote have mentioned one other slightly Marx-like touch: Diamond observes that a surplus is required before the superstructure of the state can be erected. However, Diamond seems to be more of a materialist than a Marxist since he does not concern himself with either class or social relations. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: guns, germs, steel
Michael wrote: Jim Devine wrote have mentioned one other slightly Marx-like touch: Diamond observes that a surplus is required before the superstructure of the state can be erected. However, Diamond seems to be more of a materialist than a Marxist since he does not concern himself with either class or social relations. he deals with both class and social relations. However, the only time he deals with class is the pre-capitalist case in which the economic ruling class and the political governing class are merged into one kleptocracy (kingships, etc.) He doesn't deal with the case of capitalism, in which the state and the economic ruling class seem to be separated, so that the state seems to be separate from "civil society." But in reality, the state power stands behind the capitalists. On the issue of social relations, he also deals with egalitarian pre-class societies and chiefdoms on the way to becoming states. But his analysis seems sketchier than the ecological side of his analysis. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine/JDevine.html
Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
Mine. You still haven't answered Brad's point. S.R. either tells a deliberate lie or he doesn't know what he is talking about. Wilson did not "remake himself" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doyle,I agree! you too are getting the heart of the matter.. actually, check out the articles in _Mankind Quartely_, a journal edited by Roger Pearson, and its liberal co-associate JCPES. see especially the one called _Virtues in Racism_. the man is implying that it is not racist to say that people differ because they differ genetically. It is somewhat treathening to see how the liberal rhetoric of "individual differences" relies on geneticist arguments to justify a morality of ethics of difference! another one published by a Washington policy analyst "boldly" says that affirmative action has erased our differences, and created a society of equals and conformity. See how equality is equated there with "confirmity and sameness" and genetics is praised for celebrating difference. Basically, you will find this as an interesting example on post-modern version of right wing and neo-liberalism, which approves my claim that socio-biology is inherently a reactionary science. Mine -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 11:02:54 -0700 From: Doyle Saylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:17884] Re: genome news (fwd) Greetings Economists, JKS writes in reply to Mines, JKS, No it's not. It would be racist (and genetically illiterate, for the most part) to say that some groups of people are inferior to another because of their genes, but it is not racist to say, for example, that Black people are different in the color of their skin from whites in large part because of their genes. That is just true. Genes are causally efficaous; they do account for some of the variation in differences between groups and individuals, and anyone who denies that has no idea what he is talking about. Doyle The theory of sociobiology is that genes control behavior. In other words any social group are the way they are because of their genes. Is that true? Well you say above that is not true (falsifiable in the traditional sense of the words in science). Let's look at Mine's comment again, Mine the socio-biological claim that people differ because they differ genetically is called RACISM, Doyle JKS says anyone who claims sociobiology does not assert control over the human social behavior has no idea what he is talking about. And I have no idea from JKS what exactly makes him different from Sociobiology. If I pick up a book on evolutionary psychology is that not the whole thrust of their theory? See "The Adapted Mind, Evolutionary Psychology and the Generation of Culture", Jerome H. Barkow Leda Cosmides, John Tooby, Oxford University Press, 1992. In replying to M. Forstater, JKS writes, JKS Don't assume any such thing. Of course I am aware of the social contruction of race, and I don't uncritically assume anything. I also don't need to do the dance every time I use a loaded word,a t least, I hope, in this context. Among people to whom the social construction of race might bea new thought, I'd emphasize it. Here, I might have hoped that I could take it for granted. How very foolish of me. I might have said, I briefly contemplated it, that malinin content avrirs with geographic origin; that genetics explains why people from subSaharan Africa have darker skins, because of higher melanin content, on average, than people fron Northern Europe. But it is tiresome, particularly when one is talking about race, to pretend that one is not. Political correctness is very boring. Doyle Your comments do not explain "black" skin, because you don't understand genetics or you wouldn't so loosely assert something about black skins. When groups are relatively isolated from each other there are directions to that in changes arising or falling in a pool in relation to other pools otherwise related to the isolate, selection may make dark skin arise, and it may not according to a climate, because the source of change is contingent. Color vision in primates is interesting in that sense. But not in the crude way you articulate your views. That is why arguments such as yours fade away in time in the sciences because they are not sufficiently accurate and practical in understanding reality. In current times when all the human community intermarries there is not going to be a geographic origin to skin color and your point seems just plain Eurocentric to others. Which comes first, light or dark in skin? What about a Baboon's blue ass, why aren't humans blue skinned, since they are our relatives too. And your point is just how you insert yourself into this argument when you have no sense what so ever that Mine's outrage is justified and important about the re-rise of socio-biology under the name
Annan's statements/ UN role
Not surprising when bourgeois nationalist regimes like Ethiopia, etc. squander food/medical aid , etc. The ruling class will make profits any way they can --even over the dead bodies of their "countrymen/women". But Kofi Annan is also a bourgeois criminal himself-- his role of stalling on aid /covering up over the Rwanda massacres a few years back is well known by now. Then he did the bidding of French imperialism. Now he serves the US/British bosses too. Today, he also oversees the "humanitarian UN work" of the US /UK led blocakde of Iraq which hardly hurts Hussein and Co. but is starving/bleeding the Iraqui masses. Probably near 6,000 die from this each month--2/3 of these infants/ children! Oh what a humanitarian body that UN is! Let's kiss that powder (no pun intended) blue flag.! Also the UN/Annan only pours more imperialist holy water on NATO and other "humanitarian" assaults around the world. Take for example NATO in Serbia/Kosovo or Russia's war on Chechenia. The UN is a tool of the major imperialist powers who control it. Its "humanitarianism" is weighted by the needs of the most powerful capitals who always get their way. Ask yourself, why never any "sanctions" "blockades" against the big powers?? Only punishment against regional bullies and other upstart ruling classes, etc who get to frisky with the heavyweight marauders. The UN/Annan/Boutros Ghali/Waldheim, etc like its forrunner, the League of Nations is also, as Lenin said of the League, An 'imperialist den of theives" , "a robbers den". Its track record speaks for itself. Having bourgeois nationalist ruling classes sitting at the masters UN tables does not alter this fact one iota. THe UN should be exposed and opposed , not promoted or supported. It is a global tool of the great and smaller labor skinners to deceive the working class.. Neil
Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
Mine. You still haven't answered Brad's point. S.R. either tells a deliberate lie or he doesn't know what he is talking about. Wilson did not "remake himself" okey!!! Whoever calls Steven Rosenthal a "lier" either does not have any slightest notion of who Steven Rosenthal is or has not digested his article completely. "Lier" is an uprofessional and disgusting accusation, Rod! The fellow is an "honest" Marxist and a sociologist, who has put his years on this topic. I am presenting "again" the context of Steven's discusssion of Wilson, and the reasons why he thinks Wilson is insincere when he remakes himself as an enviromentalist. Let's pay attention to Wilson's main argument here rather than spending gas over whether he prentends to be an enviromentalist or not.Even if we assume that he is an enviromentalist (which is not sincere anway), this does not justify his "real" side that "At my core, I am a social conservative, a loyalist. I cherish traditional institutions, the more venerable and ritual-laden the better." or when he talks about Rwandan genocide in 1994 as an example of "ethnic rivalry run amuck," reflecting our genetically based tribal instincts" (quotes are from Steven's article).what an enviromentalist bio-diversity! Since it is asked, Steven says the following about Wilson's enviromentalist side (refer to article): Wilson put these arguments into Sociobiology: The New Synthesis, published in 1975 by Harvard University Press and widely promoted by the popular media. Many natural and social scientists exposed human sociobiology as an unscientific attempt to defend the capitalist status quo as natural and unchangeable. Because of these sharp critiques, Wilson reinvented himself as an environmentalist concerned about bio-diversity. A quarter century and five books later, Wilson today poses as a reasonable advocate of genetic and cultural "co-evolution" and as a proponent of genetic/environmental interaction. He pretends to reject biological determinism, social Darwinism, and eugenics. The ruling class has extolled Consilience as the crowning achievement of a visionary elder statesman of capitalist science. The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal lavishly praised his call for the subjugation of the social sciences and the humanities to the natural sciences, and for the elevation of his pseudo-science to state religion. The Atlantic Monthly interviewed Wilson and published excerpts of Consilience. I continue: Moreover, Edward Wilson says the following in introduction to _What is Sociobiology_: "Sociobiology is defined as the systematic study of the biological basis of all forms of social behavior, including sexual and parental behavior, in all kinds of organisms including humans. As such, it is a discipline inevitable discipline, since there must be a systematic study of social behavior. Sociobiology consists mostly of zoology. About 90 percent of its current material concerns animals, even though over 90 percent of the attention given to sociobiology by nonscientists, and especially journalists, is due to its possible applications to the study of human social behavior. There is nothing unusual about deriving principles and methods, and even terminology, from intensive examinations of lower organisms and applying them to the study of human beings. Most of the fundamental principles of genetics and biochemistry applied to human biology are based on colon bacteria, fruit flies, and white rats. To say that the same science can be applied to human beings is not to reduce humanity to the status of these simpler creatures". (http://www.runet.edu/~lridener/courses/SOCBIO.HTML) (From Edward O. Wilson, "Introduction: What is Sociobiology?" In Michael S. Gregory, Anita Silvers, and Diane Such (Eds.). 1978. Sociobiology and Human Nature: An Interdisciplinary Critique and Defense. San Francisco, CA: Jossey-Bass, pp. 1 - 12.) Mine
Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
We're at an impasse here. Rosenthal is not here. Nor is Wilson. I wonder however about how many people today would change their ideas just because somebody remains unnamed showed that their ideas supported capitalism. Perhaps the majority of academics would wear the defense of capitalism as a batch of honor. Let's not go back and forth on this anymore unless somebody has something more substantial to contribute. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wilson put these arguments into Sociobiology: The New Synthesis, published in 1975 by Harvard University Press and widely promoted by the popular media. Many natural and social scientists exposed human sociobiology as an unscientific attempt to defend the capitalist status quo as natural and unchangeable. Because of these sharp critiques, Wilson reinvented himself as an environmentalist concerned about bio-diversity. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: RE: Getting to meet you in San Francisco
Michael, Max noticed a typographical slip in your post, one I read right by without noticing. Read your original post carefully and you'll get Max' joke. Gene Michael Perelman wrote: I did not think that it was presumptious. I very much enjoy it when I get to meet people from the lists whom i have never met. Once I got to meet you and Louis Proyect within 5 minutes -- an experience that I will not forget. As for charisma, I studied very hard under Al Gore, so I appreciate your recognition of my accomplishment. "Max B. Sawicky" wrote: I'm going to be giving a discussion of my book, Class Warfare in the Information Age, at Modern Times bookstore on Valencia Street in San Francisco on the 20th of April at 7:00. This event gives me the opportunity to make some of my cyber-friends from this list. Michael Perelman You are not without your own bohemian charisma, but that's a little presumptuous, dontcha think? mbs -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: RE: Getting to meet you in San Francisco
yup. I am a little slow on the uptake. Eugene Coyle wrote: Michael, Max noticed a typographical slip in your post, one I read right by without noticing. Read your original post carefully and you'll get Max' joke. Gene Michael Perelman wrote: I did not think that it was presumptious. I very much enjoy it when I get to meet people from the lists whom i have never met. Once I got to meet you and Louis Proyect within 5 minutes -- an experience that I will not forget. As for charisma, I studied very hard under Al Gore, so I appreciate your recognition of my accomplishment. "Max B. Sawicky" wrote: I'm going to be giving a discussion of my book, Class Warfare in the Information Age, at Modern Times bookstore on Valencia Street in San Francisco on the 20th of April at 7:00. This event gives me the opportunity to make some of my cyber-friends from this list. Michael Perelman You are not without your own bohemian charisma, but that's a little presumptuous, dontcha think? mbs -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Marshall
Jim asked I don't get how concepts like "ceteris paribus" and "normal" jibe with dialectics, which involve a process in which ceteris is never paribus and today's "normal" is always different from yesterday's. How does equilibrium (which seems a central concept to Marshall) fit in with dialectics? Like Marx (e.g. in the sixth thesis on Feuerbach), Marshall treats the human "essence" as the outcome of internal relations. This is linked to his idea of *caeteris paribus* through the assumption (also found in Hegel and Marx) that these relations are so constituted that "abstraction" from some of them is possible for some purposes. This is so because relations have differing degrees of stability. The more stable a particular set of relations (e.g family and work relations) the more possible it is to "abstract" from the possibility of changes in them. This is reflected in Marshall's treatment of time. The shorter the distance into the future of the consequences with which the analysis is concerned the more possible it is to abstract in this way. Here is a statement of the central point made as a criticism of "Ricardo and his followers". Notice the reference to Goethe and Hegel. "For the sake of simplicity of argument, Ricardo and his followers often spoke as though they regarded man as a constant quantity, and they never gave themselves enough trouble to study his variations. The people whom they knew most intimately were city men; and they sometimes expressed themselves so carelessly as almost to imply that other Englishmen were very much like those whom they knew in the city. ... As the [19th] century wore on ... people were getting clearer ideas as to the nature of organic growth. They were learning that if the subject-matter of a science passes through different stages of development, the laws which apply to one stage will seldom apply without modification to others; the laws of the science must have a development corresponding to that of the things of which they treat. The influence of this new notion gradually spread to the sciences which relate to man; and showed itself in the works of Goethe, Hegel, Comte and others. ... Economics has shared in the general movement; and is getting to pay every year a greater attention to the pliability of human nature, and to the way in which the character of man affects and is affected by the prevalent methods of the production, distribution and consumption of wealth." Principles, Variorum ed., vol. 1, pp. 762-764) The "pliability of human nature" means that, as in Marx, what is "normal" in the way of economic motivation and behaviour is treated as changing with changes in "the prevalent methods of the production, distribution and consumption of wealth". Keynes makes this the key to understanding Marshall's approach to method. Notice Marshall's reference to "Socialists" in the passage Keynes quotes. "Marshall ... arrived very early at the point of view that the bare bones of economic theory are not worth much in themselves and do not carry one far in the direction of useful, practical conclusions. The whole point lies in applying them to the interpretation of current economic life. This requires a profound knowledge of the actual facts of industry and trade. But these and the relation of individual men to them are constantly and rapidly changing. Some extracts from his Inaugural Lecture at Cambridge will indicate his position: "The change that has been made in the point of view of Economics by the present generation is due to the discovery that man himself is in a great measure a creature of circumstances and changes with them. The chief fault in English economists at the beginning of the century was not that they ignored history and statistics, but that they regarded man as so to speak a constant quantity, and gave themselves little trouble to study his variations. They therefore attributed to the forces of supply and demand a much more mechanical and regular action than they actually have. Their most vital fault was that they did not see how liable to change are the habits and institutions of industry. But the Socialists were men who had felt intensely, and who knew something about the hidden springs of human action of which the economists took no account. Buried among their wild rhapsodies there were shrewd observations and pregnant suggestions from which philosophers and economists had much to learn. Among the bad results of the narrowness of the work of English economists early in the century, perhaps the most unfortunate was the opportunity which it gave to sciolists to quote and misapply economic dogmas. Ricardo and his chief followers did not make clear to others, it was not even quite clear to themselves, that what they were building up was not universal truth, but machinery of universal application in the discovery of a certain class of truths. While attributing high and transcendent universality to the central scheme of
Indonesian Progress
The Condition of the Working Class in Indonesia By: Mohamad Zaki Hussein [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Indonesian version of this article was published in Rakyat Merdeka, an Indonesian local newspaper, at December 20, 1999 The life of the working class--especially those regarded as the blue collar workers--in Indonesia at the time of the New Order was very tragic. Seen from the income point of view, Indonesian labour costs stand on the lowest rank in the world. The minimum wages regulation, which aims to protect the wages of the worker, actually creates many problems. Firstly, because the regulation stresses only the nominal value of the minimum wages, and so it neglects the wages ratio gap, so it tends to create a polarization in the workers' wages. Second, the minimum wages regulation is often used by the employers to legitimise paying their workers a wage not far above the regulated minimum. Research conducted by the research and development institution of the Manpower Department, found that 78,38 percent of all the corporations in six provinces in Indonesia, i.e. Jakarta, West, Jave, Middle Java, Jogjakarta, East Java and North Sumatra, paid their workers wages below or not much above the regulated minimum, although those corporations had an optimal profit. Third, the regulated minimum wage was often not compatible with the minimum physical requirements standard, whereas the first consideration for a regulated minimum wages is the minimum physical requirements standard. Furthermore, although the nominal rate of the regulated minimum wages tends to increase from time to time, the real rate tends to decrease, because the rate of inflation is always higher than the increase of the regulated minimum wages. These conditions contribute to the impoverishment of the Indonesian working class. There are other phenomena which emerge, so that the pay situation in Indonesia is very bad. Research by Mather (1985) and Wolf (1986) in Tangerang, West Java and Ungaran, Middle Java, found that the factory workers were still subsidized by their family in the villages, because the wages that they received in the city were too low. At the same time, the workers who already had a family, usually mobilized all of the family members to work. There were also some workers who worked extra hours to get overtime pay, as a solution to the problem of low wages. Many of the workers problems in Indonesia, like unsuitable wages, work status, social security, occupational health and safety, overtime pay, arbitrary acts by the employer, excessive working hours, etc., can be categorized as human rights violations. The Marsinah case, which cause an uproar in 1993, was one example of how inhuman is treatment received by the Indonesian working class. Another problem, also important, is the problem of the legal protection for workers in the non-formal sector. All labour laws applying until now have been only for the workers in the formal sector, so that those in the informal sector are more vulnerable to arbitrary treatment. Beside that, there is also a problem regarding employees in government business enterprises. These government workers do not have any legal institution with the authority to handle disputes between them and their employers. The P4 (Industrial Conflict Resolution Committee) only has authority to handle worker-employer conflict in the private sector. The economic crisis, which started in July 1997, made the condition of the working class in Indonesia worse and worse. Up to the end of March 1998, one million people had lost their job in the construction and property sector. As in the banking sector, there is around 50.000 workers which already lost their job, while in the garment and textile sector 300.000 workers had lost their jobs. As for the wages problem, although the manpower minister, Fahmi Idris, increased the regulated minimum wage by 15 percent, this doesn't mean a lot in improving workers' conditions in a time of the economic crisis. It is estimated that the new regulated minimum could only fulfill 75,8 percent of the minimum physical requirements. The poor condition of the Indonesian working class is a logical consequence of its weak bargaining position vis a vis employers and the state, as a group with interests in the industrial relations system. This weak bargaining position is caused by several factors. First, because the oversupply of the labour force in Indonesia, makes the employer easy to kick out any "recalcitrant" workers and recruit new ones. Second, the industrialization process in Indonesia involves sunset industry development, including industry relocated from another countries. Third, the strong state control over workers' political activity in Indonesia. The state, with its repressive and ideological apparatus, continually tries to suppress the political activity of the Indonesian working class. Fourth, the increasing international
it's good news week!
two items: 1) BUSINESS WEEK had an amazingly favorable review of Noam Chomsky's book on "humanitarian interventionism." 2) I found my son (age 9) reading the cartoons in Z magazine, a leftwing monthly. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine/JDevine.html
Re: it's good news week! (fwd)
two items: 1) BUSINESS WEEK had an amazingly favorable review of Noam Chomsky's book on "humanitarian interventionism." 2) I found my son (age 9) reading the cartoons in Z magazine, a leftwing monthly. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is sad news week!!! "New US aggression and machinations in the Persian Gulf" http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/apr2000/gulf-a08.shtml World Socialist Web Site By David Walsh 8 April 2000 Actions taken by the US government and military over the past week amount to a new round of provocative and reckless behavior in the Persian Gulf region. On Thursday US and British war planes bombed targets in southern Iraq, killing 14 civilians and injuring 19, according to Iraqi officials. The raids took place near Al Kut, Ar Rumaylah and Al Basrah95, 225 and 245 miles from Baghdad, respectively. Iraq's Air Defense, as reported by the Iraqi News Agency, claimed that 18 waves of planes carried out 24 bombing missions. The reported death toll was the worst since an attack last August 17, in which 19 civilians died. According to the Iraqi government, nearly 200 people were killed in American and British air raids last year. US officials defended the strikes. Defense Secretary William Cohen told troops aboard an aircraft carrier in the region Friday that the bombing raids were helping to keep Saddam Hussein contained. The US Navy is continuing to hold a Russian oil tanker that it seized Wednesday in international waters while it carries out tests to see if the ship's oil comes from Iraq, in violation of UN sanctions. Royal Dutch/Shell Oil Co. has said the oil on board the Akademik Pustovoit is theirs and was headed from Iran to the Myrina, a Shell-operated ship off Dubai, to be transported to Singapore. The Russian Foreign Ministry demanded the Akademik be released and called for an independent investigation. The head of Russia's Transportation Ministry, Nikolai Matyushenko, told the press that the ship was stopped only because it was Russian. He said it was the third time the vessel had been searched, and that each time no violations had been found. The commander of the multinational maritime effort aimed at enforcing the sanctions, US Vice Admiral Charles Moore, accused Iran Thursday of high-level official involvement in smuggling of Iraqi oil and called for international pressure on Tehran to put an end to it. The oil must be smuggled to international markets because of UN sanctions that have cost hundreds of thousands of Iraqis their lives since 1990. Moore was responding to the seizure last Saturday by Iranian naval forces of a Honduran-registered ship, Al-Masru, allegedly carrying Iraqi oil. Iranian authorities impounded the ship and detained the captain and crew. Moore noted that the action followed a briefing he gave March 23 to the UN Security Council alleging Iranian complicity with the smuggling. The admiral commented, The Iranians are making an attempt here at a minimum to develop a perception that they in fact are going to cooperate with the UN. But it takes more than one interception. We're going to have to see a pattern change here. US officials claim that there has been a fourfold increase in the smuggling of Iraqi oil since last September, a trend apparently stimulated by increased world oil prices. Whether the operation has increased at this rate or not, it is providing the US military with new arguments for stepped-up aggression against Iraq. Moore claimed that the Hussein regime could make as much as $500 million from smuggling oil, money it could use to rebuild militarily. This has come upon us like a tsunami, the admiral told reporters. The willingness of the Iranian regime to serve as a proxy of US imperialism in helping impose sanctions against Iraq fits into the general pattern of improved relations between Washington and Tehran. While Moore was grudging in his praise of the
From Tom Kruse in Bolivia
Lou: I'm fie; busy; in the streets. The shit is THICK. I'm sedning on a note on the situation we've been working. Now: one dead, 26 wounded, government weak, but we are tired. Tom === Dear Larry: Here's the information: (a) a note from a friend doing the innternational coverage; (b) an OK Reuers piece, which mentions the companies involved, (c) the note to invite Oscar Olivera to the A16 events. (a) Dear Friends: Just a few hours ago Bolivia was declared under martial law. People are being arrested, the army is occupying the streets, human rights offices are being invaded by government agents, radio stations are being closed by the military and huge sections of the city have had their electrical power cut (I had to leave home to find a computer that was still charged to write this). The situation is grave and we need help to get the story out. Please share the brief article below as far and wide as you can with anyone who will publish or broadcast it. My own media list is in a computer which I can´t access. For the time being I can still be reached at 591-4-290-725. I will try to send updates as the situation allows. Please do not worry for our safety, my family and I are fine and keeping well away from the violence. IF YOU RESPOND, PLEASE RESPOND TO THE EMAIL BELOW, NOT THE RETURN ON THIS ONE. Jim Shultz The Democracy Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] BOLIVIA UNDER MARTIAL LAW As of 10 am Saturday morning Bolivia was declared under martial law by President Hugo Banzer. The drastic move comes at the end of a week of protests, general strikes, and transportation blockages that have left major areas of the country at a virtual standstill. It also follows, by just hours, the surprise announcement by state officials yesterday afternoon that the government would concede to the protests' main demands, to break a widely-despised contract under which the city of Cochabamba's public water system was sold off to foreign investors last year. The concession was quickly reversed by the national government, and the local governor resigned, explaining that he didn't want to take responsibility for bloodshed that might result. Banzer, who ruled Bolivia as a dictator from 1971-78, has taken an action that suspends almost all civil rights, disallows gatherings of more than four people and puts severe limits on freedom of the press. One after another, local radio stations have been taken over by military forces or forced off the air. Reporters have been arrested The neighborhood where most of the city's broadcast antennas are located had its power shut off at approximately noon local time. Through the night police searched homes for members of the widely-backed water protests, arresting as many as twenty. The local police chief has been instated by the President as governor of the state. Blockades erected by farmers in rural areas continue across the country, cutting off some cities from food and transportation. Large crowds of angry residents, many armed with sticks and rocks are massing on the city's center where confrontations with military and police are escalating. (b) Bolivia Declares Emergency Over Protests Filed at 3:41 p.m. ET By Reuters LA PAZ (Reuters) - Bolivia's government put the landlocked Andean nation of 8 million people under a state of emergency on Saturday after it was rocked for a week by protests over pending waterworks projects and legislation. ``We see it as our obligation, in the common best interest, to decree a state of emergency to protect law and order,'' President Hugo Banzer said in a message delivered by Information Minister Ronald MacLean at the government palace. The state of emergency giving Banzer special powers to deploy police and the military will be in place for 90 days. It was announced Friday night to avoid damaging ``the efforts for social dialogue'' and assure ``that the great effort toward economic reactivation is not set back further,'' MacLean read. The move has to be ratified by Congress, where the ruling party controls the majority. Bolivia has been hit by protests in the central city of Cochabamba over a $200 million waterworks project that promises to hike drinking water rates. Meanwhile, roadblocks have been set up on several national highways by peasants pressuring the government to relent on a bill currently being debated in Congress that could force them to pay for water they currently obtain for free. On top of the waterworks demonstrations, university students in the central city of Sucre -- home to the nation's Supreme Court -- have staged a hunger strike against a ``persona non grata'' from the southern Tarija province civic committee who was received by the president. And in the capital city La Paz various police units have set off a mutiny over low pay. Mobilization of police and military began early on Saturday morning with a raid on the headquarters of the Bolivian Workers' Central Union
Latino demographics and the labor movement
The San Francisco Chronicle, MARCH 27, 1996, WEDNESDAY, FINAL EDITION Census Shows a Turning Point -- Hispanics Increasing the Fastest Ramon G. McLeod, Chronicle Staff Writer The number of Hispanics being added to the U.S. population now exceeds that of non-Hispanic whites -- the first time whites have trailed another group since at least the 18th century. The historic turning point happened in the 1993-'94 fiscal year, when the Hispanic population increased by 902,000 and the non-Hispanic white population increased by 883,000, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report being issued today. The pattern was repeated in 1994-'95 and is expected to continue well into the 21st century, when the nation's non-Hispanic white population will be less than half the population, given current immigration and birthrate projections. ''We are locked in the largest demographic change in U.S. history,'' said Charles Kamsaki, a vice president at the National Council of La Raza, a Latino public policy research organization in Washington, D.C. ''Nothing is going to change that, and we ought to begin to have some rational debate about what we need to do as a nation to deal with these changes.'' (clip) === New York Times, April 9, 2000 Janitors March in Los Angeles After Voting to Begin a Strike By THE NEW YORK TIMES LOS ANGELES, April 8 -- In the 15 years Maria Santania has worked as a janitor here, her pay has increased $2 an hour, to $6.50. To earn it, she vacuums, dusts and scrubs two floors of an office building on South Hope Street in downtown Los Angeles -- 100 law offices and consulates filled with thick carpeting and cherry wood desks that she is regularly warned not to damage. At night Ms. Santania, who came to the United States from El Salvador 18 years ago, goes home to a one-bedroom apartment in the Koreatown section of mid-Los Angeles that she shares with her two children; she separated from her husband six years ago. The rent, $550, amounts to more than two weeks of her salary before taxes. So on Friday, she joined thousands of striking janitors -- police and union officials estimated a crowd of 3,000 -- marching 10 miles down Wilshire Boulevard in search of a larger pay increase. Multiyear janitorial contracts are lapsing in several major American cities this year, including San Francisco, San Jose and Chicago, but Los Angeles's was the first to expire with no agreement in sight. The strike came after janitors voted to reject a pay plan put forward by a group of building maintenance companies that would have offered a 50-cent raise the first year and 40-cent raises the next two years. The workers are seeking a $3 increase in their hourly pay over the next three years. "I don't like to be here," Ms. Santania said. "I'd like to be working. But I can't accept 50 cents." The Rev. Jesse L. Jackson and other civil rights leaders and political figures led marchers on Thursday and Friday. And leaders of the union, the Service Employees International Union, which represents about 8,500 janitors in Los Angeles, said workers would not go back until they got a better offer. "There needs to be a dramatic increase in order for them to move above the federal poverty line," about $15,000 annually for a family of four, said Blanca Gallegos, a union leader. "They're not going back until the contractors come back with an offer they can accept, that would be a livable wage." Full article at: http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/janitors-protest.html Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
Joseph Stiglitz and the April 16th protests
New York Times, April 9, 2000 Seattle Protesters Are Back, With a New Target By JOSEPH KAHN WASHINGTON, April 8 -- For Beka Economopoulos, a 25-year-old environmental campaigner with a premature streak of gray in her long black hair, the drive to shut down the world's financial institutions began in Seattle's King County Jail. She and about 250 other women spent five days there shortly after Thanksgiving last year, most of them arrested for refusing to disperse when the Seattle police told them to move on. Inside the cells, they planned an encore. "For five days they only thing we talked about was how to take this to the next level," said Ms. Economopoulos, a Washington native who now spends full time on this mix of environmental and economic causes. "You go through that, you know, and you're hooked." Many of the people who disrupted the Seattle meeting of the World Trade Organization are reassembling in Washington this week, where they have identified as their targets two older, richer and savvier agents of the global economy: the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Students, church groups, environmentalists and labor unions, a few of them planning to scale buildings and block traffic, say they want to disrupt the spring meetings of both groups. (clip) Many of the protesters view the World Bank and the I.M.F. as global loan sharks, hooking lower-income nations on cheap debt and then insisting that they adopt free markets, unlimited investment, privatization and restrained government spending, or risk a cutoff in new aid. They are armed with research that they say shows some of the poorest countries that get World Bank and I.M.F. assistance, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa, have become dependent on loans. Even when the policies work, they often come at the expense of the environment, others argue. The bank and the fund sometimes require aid recipients to curtail spending and increase exports to earn hard currency. To meet those targets, governments often slash environmental protection budgets, they contend. "You cannot conceive of policies more diametrically opposed to sound management of resources, " said Brent Blackwelder, president of Friends of the Earth. Some protesters have treated Mr. Sachs and Joseph E. Stiglitz, the recently departed chief economist of the World Bank, as intellectual leaders. Mr. Stiglitz's scathing insider critiques have contributed to a raging debate in universities and in Congress about the effectiveness of the agencies. Indeed, the protesters have implicit allies on the right. A commission appointed by the Republican-controlled Congress called last month for an end to long-term loans of the type criticized by environmentalists. The commission also said the bank should make more grants, rather than loans. "Underneath it all is a feeling that globalization has not brought the benefits to the poor as promised," Mr. Stiglitz said. "The architecture of the world financial system is decided by finance ministers behind closed doors, but farmers and small businessmen are the ones who get hurt." Full article at: http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/global/040900wto-protest.html Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
