date:20080512

Abdus Samad Ansari [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I have setup PHP/Postgres and is running fine upto document root
 i.e. /var/www/html, but when i am calling it through a cgi-bin php file
 it is giving log error as :
 [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning:  pg_connect(): Unable to connect
 to PostgreSQL server: could not connect to server: \x04\xe6\xe3\xbfPF;

Hmm, so the most useful part of the error message is getting trashed :-(

One possible explanation for that is that you're using a non-thread-safe
libpq in a threaded environment.  What PG version is your libpq,
exactly, and how did you build or obtain it?

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] PHP Warning: pg_connect(): Unable to connect to PostgreSQL server: could not connect to server:


Abdus Samad Ansari [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I have setup PHP/Postgres and is running fine upto document root
i.e. /var/www/html, but when i am calling it through a cgi-bin php  
file

it is giving log error as :
[error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning:  pg_connect(): Unable to  
connect

to PostgreSQL server: could not connect to server: \x04\xe6\xe3\xbfPF;


I don't know how the error message is structured, but if  
\x04\xe6\xe3\xbfP refers to the host, perhaps the connection string  
you are handing to pg_connect() is trashed. What is the actual code  
you are using for this call?


-- Andy


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Re: [GENERAL] How to create a function with multiple RefCursor OUT parameters

2008-05-12 Thread Merlin Moncure

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Chuck Bai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION test_refcursor(INOUT tcount integer, OUT o_user
 refcursor, OUT o_name refcursor)
   RETURNS record AS
  $BODY$
  BEGIN
tcount := tcount + 1;
OPEN o_user FOR SELECT * FROM user_table;
OPEN o_name FOR SELECT * FROM name_table;
  END;
  $BODY$
   LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' VOLATILE

  Question 1: The function is not working with Npgsql .NET data provider. It
 did not return a valid .NET DataSet. But the INOUT parameter tcount works
 fine. How could I test the above function with SQL in pgAdmin III? I want to
 find out if problem is in the function or in the Npgsql.

You can test from pgAdmin by simply running queries in the query
window.  This sort of thing however might be a better fit for psql
(pasting your queries in the query window).  You need to use
transactions since refcursors only only good inside a transaction.

  Question 2: pgAdmin III automatically added RETURNS record in the above
 function when RETURNS clause is not specified initially. Why is that? Is
 this the problem since it returns only single data table with the following
 value? How to fix it?

For a function with 1 out parameters, the output type is a record.
Your function returns (int, refcursor, refcursor) as defined.  SELECT
* FROM test_refcursor(7); would returns a row with three variables ( a
record).

  tcount  o_user  o_name
  23  unnamed portal 1  unnamed portal 2

You probably want to name your refcursors.  The way to do this is
simply o_user := 'something'; inside your pl/pgsql function.

-- inside pl/pgsql_function
refcur_variable := 'mycursor'

-- outside function, but in same transaction
FETCH ALL FROM mycursor -- or, mycursor

So, it would at least take a few 'queries' from the perppective of the
client to do what you are attempting.  However, all the data is 'set
up' for return to the client by the server in the main function.  The
server will hang on to it as long as the current transaction is valid
and then release it.



  Question 3: I want to return a single DataSet with each OUT RefCursor map
 to a DataTable within the DataSet,  plus extra OUT parameters for individual
 OUT values. How could I create such a function?

Your question is a little opaque to me.  A refcursor is in PostgreSQL
terms a 'hande' to a set, not a DataTable the way you are
thinking...it's really a fancy string.  so, (INOUT int, OUT refcursor,
OUT refcursor) returns takes an 'int' in and returns an int and two
refcursors (strings), with extra work to return this to the client, at
least in terms of SQL statements.

I haven't used .net for a while but IIRC it's probably not possible to
'fill' multiple data tables in a single query without at least some
manual work.  Some of the npgsql experts might have some suggestions
however.  It really depends on how the code operates inside the npgsql
library.

merlin

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[GENERAL] pg_standby / WAL archive-restore through system restarts

2008-05-12 Thread David Wall

Just wanted to see if others would confirm my impressions about running 
WAL archiving and pg_standby restore.


Server A (Primary): Runs PG 8.3 with WAL archiving enabled.  Each WAL is 
copied over the network to Server B.  (A previous 'tar backup' of the 
database along with the requisite psql commands 
pg_start_backup()/pg_stop_backup() was done and restored on Server B.)


Server B (Backup): Runs PG 8.3 in 'recovery mode' (recovery.conf), with 
pg_standby feeding the WAL archives.


The idea is that if Server A dies, Server B will have a relatively close 
snapshot of the most recent database changes and could take over as the 
new primary database server.


During regular operations, Server A and Server B may independently need 
to be rebooted or postgresql restarted, etc.  Is there any sync-ing 
between Server A and Server B I have to worry about when doing this? 

That is, will Server B need to know anything about the fact that the 
postmaster on Server A going up and down?  Will it just run normally, 
waiting for the restarted Server A to send over new WAL archives?


Can I shutdown Server B simply by killing the postmaster and restart it 
back in recovery mode to continue re-syncing where it left off?  Or does 
stopping Server B in recovery mode require any manual re-sync steps 
before it can resume recovery?


If I ever tell Server B to stop recovery (assuming I didn't intend for 
it to become the new primary), I cannot just resume recovery mode unless 
I do the full data backup again from Server A and restore on Server B in 
start in recovery mode.  That is, once you tell PG to end recovery, it 
becomes a primary and no longer can resume recovery mode without redoing 
the recovery setup steps.


Are these correct?

Thanks,
David

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Re: [GENERAL] choiche of function language was: Re: dynamic procedure call

2008-05-12 Thread Chris Browne

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ivan Sergio Borgonovo) writes:
 On Sat, 10 May 2008 07:35:36 +0200
 Pavel Stehule [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 your application different execution paths. Generally I can say, so
 plpgsql isn't well language for this games, and better is using
 plperl, plpython or other external language.

 It is clear what is at least one of the advantage of plpython or
 plperl over plpgsql, but then what are the advantages of plpgsql over
 the rest of the crowd other than resembling the language used in
 Oracle?

Well, plpgsql has the merit that its operations and control structures
are directly oriented towards database stuff, so there's no need to
(for instance) invoke functions (e.g. - running queries via
spi_exec(), spi_query(), ...)  in order to perform database
operations.

One of the salutory effects is that there is a pl/pgsql debugger that
can automatically handle things like single-stepping, and it does not
need to be aware of any Perl/Python internals.
-- 
cbbrowne,@,linuxfinances.info
http://linuxfinances.info/info/sap.html
...you  might  as well  skip  the  Xmas  celebration completely,  and
instead  sit  in  front  of  your  linux  computer  playing  with  the
all-new-and-improved linux kernel version. -- Linus Torvalds

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Re: [GENERAL] Returning RECORD from PGSQL without custom type?

2008-05-12 Thread D. Dante Lorenso


Pavel Stehule wrote:

Hello
2008/5/10 D. Dante Lorenso [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Instead of doing this:

 CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint)
 RETURNS SETOF record AS
 $body$
 ...
 $body$
 LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' VOLATILE;

I'd like to be able to do this:

 CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint)
 RETURNS SETOF (col1name BIGINT, col2name TEXT, ...) AS
 $body$
 ...
 $body$
 LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' VOLATILE;



Standard syntax via ANSI SQL is
CREATE FUNCTION foo(params)
RETURNS TABLE(fields of output table) AS
$$ ...
$$


Ah, this sound almost exactly like what I'm wanting!  So ... you are 
saying that developers are working on something like?  I'm running 8.3 
... would I find this feature in 8.4 or is it still not included in any 
release?



Because this is the only function that will be returning that TYPE and I
don't want to have to create a separate type definition just for the return
results of this function.

Maybe even more cool would be if the OUT record was already defined so that
I could simply select into that record to send our new rows:
  RETURN NEXT OUT;
  OUT.col1name := 12345;
  RETURN NEXT OUT;
  SELECT 12345, 'sample'
  INTO OUT.col1name, OUT.col2name;
  RETURN NEXT OUT;


it's good idea - it was probably main problem of last patch in
plpgsql. In this syntax is clear what is output, so RETURN NEXT
statement can be without params. I am only not sure about name of
default variable - maybe result is better.


Yeah, RESULT works too.  I'm not particular about what it has to be ... 
just that something like that might exist.


Where can I go to follow development of this or test it out?  I see some 
old threads now that I know what to look for:


http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2007-02/msg00318.php
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-02/msg00216.php
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-02/msg00341.php
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2007-09/msg01079.php

I want to make sure this patch/proposal covers my needs and 
expectations.  Specifically I want to return records that are not simple 
a straight query:


  CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION foo(f integer)
  RETURNS TABLE(a int, b int) AS
  $$
  DECLARE
my_a INT;
my_b INT;
  BEGIN
-- 1) perhaps like this
SELECT 1, 2
INTO RESULT.a, RESULT.b;
RETURN NEXT RESULT;

-- 2) maybe like this
RETURN NEXT 3, 4;  -- a=3, b=4

-- 3) how about like this
my_a := 5;
my_b := 6;
RETURN NEXT my_a, my_b;

-- 4) maybe like this
RETURN NEXT QUERY SELECT a, b FROM sometable x WHERE x.f = f;

-- done
RETURN;
  END;
  $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;

Usage:

  SELECT a, b
  FROM foo(20);

Results:

  a  |  b
  ---+
   1 |  2   -- 1)
   3 |  4   -- 2)
   5 |  6   -- 3)
  ...   -- 4) results from sometable WHERE x.f = 20

What do you think, will I be able to do all of this?

-- Dante


Regards
Pavel Stehule


Just as you've allowed me to define the IN variable names without needing
the legacy 'ALIAS $1 ...' format, I'd like to name the returned record
column names and types in a simple declaration like I show above.

Does this feature request make sense to everyone?  It would make programming
set returning record functions a lot easier.

-- Dante


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Re: [GENERAL] Hung SQL Update Linux Redhat 4U5 Postgres 8.3.1

2008-05-12 Thread Craig Vosburgh

 Craig Vosburgh craig(dot)vosburgh(at)cassatt(dot)com writes:
 We've dumped the locks and it shows that all locks have been granted so
 it appears that it is not a lock that is standing in our way.  We've
 also gone in via psql while the update is hung and were able to perform
 an update on the offending table without issue.  Finally, we have also
 enabled the statement_timeout and set it to five minutes and it does
 timeout the hung update and return to normal processing by rolling back
 the offending transaction but that's not a viable solution for us.
 
 Anyone have any words of wisdom on how to track this down?
 
 For starters, attach to the hung backend with gdb and get a stack trace ...
 
regards, tom lane
 
Tom,

Got GDB installed on the errant node and did a back trace call (I'm guessing
that is what you were looking for when you said stack trace) on the process
that shows in the process table as executing the hung SQL command.
 
The backtrace is:
(gdb) bt
#0  0x0088b7a2 in _dl_sysinfo_int80 () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2
#1  0x0096f3ab in semop () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6
#2  0x081ba8f8 in PGSemaphoreLock ()
#3  0x081e4d9e in ProcSleep ()
#4  0x081e1db3 in GrantAwaitedLock ()
#5  0x0832f984 in twophase_recover_callbacks ()
#6  0x0006 in ?? ()
#7  0x0003 in ?? ()
#8  0x091c3770 in ?? ()
#9  0x091c3758 in ?? ()
#10 0xbfe63158 in ?? ()
#11 0xbfe634a0 in ?? ()
#12 0xbfe634b0 in ?? ()
#13 0x0832f984 in twophase_recover_callbacks ()
#14 0x08e8dc40 in ?? ()
#15 0x0006 in ?? ()
#16 0xbff32c72 in ?? ()
#17 0x08e68758 in ?? ()
#18 0xb792a9f8 in ?? ()
#19 0xbfe631b8 in ?? ()
#20 0xbfe630d0 in ?? ()
#21 0x081e1d88 in GrantAwaitedLock ()
#22 0x081d6722 in MarkBufferDirty ()
(gdb) 
 
Thanks for the help,
-Craig


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[GENERAL] rounding problems

I have very annoying problem that i would like to get a work around  in 
place so the data entry people stop trying to kill me.


Normally people give quotes out of the price book which was done in 
Excel like 15 years ago and just has been updated over the years.  the 
problem is excel is rounding differently than postgres 8.3.1 (Yes i know 
Excel rounds incorrectly) which results in normally being pennies off 
but on large qty its usually under a few bucks on the postgresql side.   
We internally don't  care but those annoying customers scream bloody 
murder if the quote don't agree to the penny on the invoice  Even when 
its to their benefit .  

Has anyone every got  Postgresql and Excel to agree on rounding. 

I have checked excel up to Office XP and its still wrong.  (open office 
was looked out and the people  screamed really loudly NO )


Another annoying thing is the calculators on everyones desk get it wrong 
to if the rounding is turned to 2 places.  

Although my TI-89, and TI-36X calculators agree perfectly with 
postgresql . 





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Re: [GENERAL] Returning RECORD from PGSQL without custom type?

D. Dante Lorenso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I'd like to be able to do this:
 
 CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint)
 RETURNS SETOF (col1name BIGINT, col2name TEXT, ...) AS

You realize of course that you can do this *today* if you use OUT
parameters?

CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint,
  OUT col1name BIGINT, OUT col2name TEXT, ...)
  RETURNS SETOF RECORD AS

The TABLE syntax is a bit more standards-compliant maybe, but it's not
offering any actual new functionality.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

2008-05-12 Thread Lincoln Yeoh


At 01:48 AM 5/13/2008, Justin wrote:
I have very annoying problem that i would like to get a work 
around  in place so the data entry people stop trying to kill me.


Normally people give quotes out of the price book which was done in 
Excel like 15 years ago and just has been updated over the 
years.  the problem is excel is rounding differently than postgres 
8.3.1 (Yes i know Excel rounds incorrectly) which results in 
normally being pennies off but on large qty its usually under a few 
bucks on the postgresql side.
We internally don't  care but those annoying customers scream bloody 
murder if the quote don't agree to the penny on the invoice  Even 
when its to their benefit .


Has anyone every got  Postgresql and Excel to agree on rounding.
I have checked excel up to Office XP and its still wrong.  (open 
office was looked out and the people  screamed really loudly NO )


Another annoying thing is the calculators on everyones desk get it 
wrong to if the rounding is turned to 2 places.


Although my TI-89, and TI-36X calculators agree perfectly with postgresql .


Bad news, the Excel thing is probably doing math very wrong.

Also, my guess is you're treating one penny as 0.01, which is also wrong.

When you do financial calculations you should avoid floating point 
where possible. Floating point is really tricky to get right. There 
are scary books on it.


I'm no expert in financial calculations and floating point stuff, my 
_guess_ is a good start is probably treating one penny as 1, instead 
of 0.01. But better wait for the experts to chime in.


That said, if you're going to insist on using the wrong numbers from 
the Excel Invoice, can't you work some way of getting them into 
Postgresql and stored as is, rather than having Postgresql 
calculate them differently ( I suspect you're using floating point in 
postgresql and so it'll be wrong too, just maybe a bit less wrong 
than Excel ;) ).


Regards,
Link.






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Re: [GENERAL] Hung SQL Update Linux Redhat 4U5 Postgres 8.3.1

Craig Vosburgh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Got GDB installed on the errant node and did a back trace call (I'm guessing
 that is what you were looking for when you said stack trace) on the process
 that shows in the process table as executing the hung SQL command.
 
 The backtrace is:
 (gdb) bt
 #0  0x0088b7a2 in _dl_sysinfo_int80 () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2
 #1  0x0096f3ab in semop () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6
 #2  0x081ba8f8 in PGSemaphoreLock ()
 #3  0x081e4d9e in ProcSleep ()
 #4  0x081e1db3 in GrantAwaitedLock ()
 #5  0x0832f984 in twophase_recover_callbacks ()
 #6  0x0006 in ?? ()

Hmm.  gdb is lying to you, because GrantAwaitedLock doesn't call
ProcSleep --- probably line 4 should refer to WaitOnLock instead.
You could try installing a non-symbol-stripped postgres executable
(or in RPM environments, install the matching debuginfo RPM) to
get a more trustworthy backtrace.

However, what I suspect you are looking at is just a run-of-the-mill
lock wait.  You *sure* there's no ungranted locks showing in pg_locks?

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

Can you be more explicit about the rounding that's wrong in Excel?  
Are you talking about the n5 round-up to n+1 that Excel uses  
vs. n5 round-to-even n (sometimes called Banker's Rounding)?


-- Andy

On May 12, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Justin wrote:

I have very annoying problem that i would like to get a work  
around  in place so the data entry people stop trying to kill me.


Normally people give quotes out of the price book which was done in  
Excel like 15 years ago and just has been updated over the years.   
the problem is excel is rounding differently than postgres 8.3.1  
(Yes i know Excel rounds incorrectly) which results in normally  
being pennies off but on large qty its usually under a few bucks on  
the postgresql side.   We internally don't  care but those annoying  
customers scream bloody murder if the quote don't agree to the  
penny on the invoice  Even when its to their benefit .

Has anyone every got  Postgresql and Excel to agree on rounding.
I have checked excel up to Office XP and its still wrong.  (open  
office was looked out and the people  screamed really loudly NO )


Another annoying thing is the calculators on everyones desk get it  
wrong to if the rounding is turned to 2 places.
Although my TI-89, and TI-36X calculators agree perfectly with  
postgresql .




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Re: [GENERAL] Returning RECORD from PGSQL without custom type?

2008-05-12 Thread Pavel Stehule

2008/5/12 Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 D. Dante Lorenso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I'd like to be able to do this:

 CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint)
 RETURNS SETOF (col1name BIGINT, col2name TEXT, ...) AS

 You realize of course that you can do this *today* if you use OUT
 parameters?

 CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint,
  OUT col1name BIGINT, OUT col2name TEXT, ...)
  RETURNS SETOF RECORD AS

 The TABLE syntax is a bit more standards-compliant maybe, but it's not
 offering any actual new functionality.

it should minimalize columns and variables collision  (for beginer
users).There isn't new functionality, but it can be more accessible
for new users. What I know, current syntax is for some people curios .

Regars
Pavel Stehule

regards, tom lane


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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems




Andy Anderson wrote:
Can you be more explicit about the rounding that's wrong in Excel? Are 
you talking about the n5 round-up to n+1 that Excel uses vs. 
n5 round-to-even n (sometimes called Banker's Rounding)?


Yes i'm talking about difference between bankers rounding verse Excels
crappy math.   I have dealt with excels crappy math skills in scientific
measurements dumped from AD cards, the simply solution was increase the
decimal range to 1 more than i needed.  But in this case it won't work
sense this published material will disagree with how postgresql rounds.

We take (List Price * discount Percent) * Number of Pieces = net
price.List Prices is stored as numeric (16,4) discount is stored as
numeric(10,4)
the result is numeric (16,4).  On the UI its rounded to 2 and displays
correctly and agrees with my TI-89

The problem is the price book which is used to quotes is almost always
0.01 to 0.015 pennies higher.  Net result the invoices are almost always
lower than Quoted price.  (yet customers still through a fit.)




-- Andy

On May 12, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Justin wrote:

I have very annoying problem that i would like to get a work around  
in place so the data entry people stop trying to kill me.


Normally people give quotes out of the price book which was done in 
Excel like 15 years ago and just has been updated over the years.  
the problem is excel is rounding differently than postgres 8.3.1 (Yes 
i know Excel rounds incorrectly) which results in normally being 
pennies off but on large qty its usually under a few bucks on the 
postgresql side.   We internally don't  care but those annoying 
customers scream bloody murder if the quote don't agree to the penny 
on the invoice  Even when its to their benefit .

Has anyone every got  Postgresql and Excel to agree on rounding.
I have checked excel up to Office XP and its still wrong.  (open 
office was looked out and the people  screamed really loudly NO )


Another annoying thing is the calculators on everyones desk get it 
wrong to if the rounding is turned to 2 places.
Although my TI-89, and TI-36X calculators agree perfectly with 
postgresql .




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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems




Lincoln Yeoh wrote:

At 01:48 AM 5/13/2008, Justin wrote:
I have very annoying problem that i would like to get a work around  
in place so the data entry people stop trying to kill me.


Normally people give quotes out of the price book which was done in 
Excel like 15 years ago and just has been updated over the years.  
the problem is excel is rounding differently than postgres 8.3.1 (Yes 
i know Excel rounds incorrectly) which results in normally being 
pennies off but on large qty its usually under a few bucks on the 
postgresql side.
We internally don't  care but those annoying customers scream bloody 
murder if the quote don't agree to the penny on the invoice  Even 
when its to their benefit .


Has anyone every got  Postgresql and Excel to agree on rounding.
I have checked excel up to Office XP and its still wrong.  (open 
office was looked out and the people  screamed really loudly NO )


Another annoying thing is the calculators on everyones desk get it 
wrong to if the rounding is turned to 2 places.


Although my TI-89, and TI-36X calculators agree perfectly with 
postgresql .


Bad news, the Excel thing is probably doing math very wrong.

Also, my guess is you're treating one penny as 0.01, which is also wrong.
The fields are numeric(12,4)  and numeric(10,2) .  I'm in process of 
extending the precision out on the acounting side because its causing 
problems with inventory costing, as we have raw material priced in $50 
to $100 a pound but only consume .000235 lbs per part.  so we can 
getting some funky results. 

I did not layout the database.  The person who laid out the database 
knows even less math than i do, we have numeric fields (20,10) to (10,4) 
and everything in between.  it creates some funky results due to 
truncating and rounding in the different fields.  You have raw material 
priced as high as thing are today it starts adding up to some major 
issues.  Multiply that by thousands of transactions it just way wrong.


I learned long ago make sure every field in the database have the same 
precision and deal with the rounding at the UI side.  I learned this 
because of my work in low resistance measurements taken at the ppm scale.


When you do financial calculations you should avoid floating point 
where possible. Floating point is really tricky to get right. There 
are scary books on it.


I know this and experienced it before.  Again someone did not know what 
they where doing and i got left picking up the pieces.  Not to say my 
first time through i did not make all kind of mistakes but i fixed my.


To add further murky the water for the users our last ERP packaged used 
round to next highest number which trashed cost accounting as it used 
more raw material than it should have.




I'm no expert in financial calculations and floating point stuff, my 
_guess_ is a good start is probably treating one penny as 1, instead 
of 0.01. But better wait for the experts to chime in.


That said, if you're going to insist on using the wrong numbers from 
the Excel Invoice, can't you work some way of getting them into 
Postgresql and stored as is, rather than having Postgresql calculate 
them differently ( I suspect you're using floating point in postgresql 
and so it'll be wrong too, just maybe a bit less wrong than Excel ;) ).


No floating point is being used every variable is declared as numeric on 
the Postgresql side and in the C++  which is the UI side everything is 
double.


Regards,
Link.







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Re: [GENERAL] Hung SQL Update Linux Redhat 4U5 Postgres 8.3.1

2008-05-12 Thread Craig Vosburgh

Tom,

Yea, about that lock that I *said* I didn't have...  We had been joining
through the pg_class and pg_tables tables to get some additional data and it
turns out the row in the pg_locks that shows as locked doesn't have a
relation so it was filtered out due to the join.

So, now that I have accurate data (just doing a select * from pg_locks where
granted = 'f') I indeed have an outstanding lock that isn't granted that is
causing the holdup.  However, now I have a couple of other questions.

First, I thought I've seen in the past where Postgres will recognize a
deadlock and will log an error and then move on.  Do I need to do something
with the more recent code base to get that behavior?  I think the last time
I saw that was back on an 8.1.X code base.

Second, any words of wisdom to help run to ground who's keeping me from
getting the lock on the offending row?  The row in the lock table that shows
granted false does not show as belonging to a database or relation (both
null) so I can't join through to get the table info from pg_table.

Thanks for all the help,
-Craig

On 5/12/08 12:16 PM, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Craig Vosburgh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Got GDB installed on the errant node and did a back trace call (I'm guessing
 that is what you were looking for when you said stack trace) on the process
 that shows in the process table as executing the hung SQL command.
  
 The backtrace is:
 (gdb) bt
 #0  0x0088b7a2 in _dl_sysinfo_int80 () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2
 #1  0x0096f3ab in semop () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6
 #2  0x081ba8f8 in PGSemaphoreLock ()
 #3  0x081e4d9e in ProcSleep ()
 #4  0x081e1db3 in GrantAwaitedLock ()
 #5  0x0832f984 in twophase_recover_callbacks ()
 #6  0x0006 in ?? ()
 
 Hmm.  gdb is lying to you, because GrantAwaitedLock doesn't call
 ProcSleep --- probably line 4 should refer to WaitOnLock instead.
 You could try installing a non-symbol-stripped postgres executable
 (or in RPM environments, install the matching debuginfo RPM) to
 get a more trustworthy backtrace.
 
 However, what I suspect you are looking at is just a run-of-the-mill
 lock wait.  You *sure* there's no ungranted locks showing in pg_locks?
 
 regards, tom lane


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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems


thats how i loaded the price list to start with.  The problems with
sales orders are entered and the automatic pricing kicks in ( the
discounts are calculated * the number or pieces ordered)  it goes to
down the tubes.

I could just rewrite the pricing stored procedures to call a rounding
procedure that would make the results agree with stupid excel :-\

Not the preferred way  but it would make data entry people leave me
alone.  Thanks for the idea.


Christophe wrote:
Rather than try to recreate Excel's rounding algorithm, perhaps use 
Excel to create a table of input values and results, and load that 
into the database?  It might be easier than trying to back-engineer 
Excel's broken math.




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Re: [GENERAL] Hung SQL Update Linux Redhat 4U5 Postgres 8.3.1

Craig Vosburgh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Second, any words of wisdom to help run to ground who's keeping me from
 getting the lock on the offending row?  The row in the lock table that shows
 granted false does not show as belonging to a database or relation (both
 null) so I can't join through to get the table info from pg_table.

What's the locktype?  If (as I suspect) it's a transaction or
virtualtransaction lock, then which process holds that lock and what's
it doing?  For that matter, what is the stuck process doing?
pg_stat_activity output should be sufficient here.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] Returning RECORD from PGSQL without custom type?

2008-05-12 Thread D. Dante Lorenso


Tom Lane wrote:

D. Dante Lorenso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'd like to be able to do this:

CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint)
RETURNS SETOF (col1name BIGINT, col2name TEXT, ...) AS


You realize of course that you can do this *today* if you use OUT
parameters?


No, I didn't realize.  I always assumed OUT parameters were like return 
values from a function ... like:


  (out1, out2, out3) = somefunction (in1, in2, in3);

I never realized you could return a SETOF those OUT parameters.  I guess 
it wasn't intuitive, but I'm learning this now.


I think all the functionality I want DOES already exist.  Let me go work 
with it.  Thanks.


-- Dante






CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION my_custom_func (in_value bigint,
  OUT col1name BIGINT, OUT col2name TEXT, ...)
  RETURNS SETOF RECORD AS

The TABLE syntax is a bit more standards-compliant maybe, but it's not
offering any actual new functionality.

regards, tom lane




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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems


Andy Anderson wrote:
Can you be more explicit about the rounding that's wrong in Excel?  
Are you talking about the n5 round-up to n+1 that Excel uses  
vs. n5 round-to-even n (sometimes called Banker's Rounding)?


On May 12, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Justin wrote:
Yes i'm taking about difference between bankers rounding verse  
Excels crappy math.   I have dealt with excels crappy math skills  
in scientific measurements dumped from AD cards the simply solution  
was increase the decimal range to 1 more than i needed.  But in  
this case it won't work sense this published material will disagree  
with how postgresql rounds.



Well, I won't call it crappy, just different; it depends on your  
purpose. I learned round-even in grade school, but I've seen many  
college students in the last two decades who learned round-up.  
Microsoft actually explains these two and several other ways to  
implement rounding on this page:


http://support.microsoft.com/kb/196652

(But they don't justify their choice for Excel, very odd given its  
extensive financial use.)


Anyway, I would imagine you could implement a custom function to  
replace Postgres' round(n, i) along the lines of:


function roundup(n, i)
{
factor = power(10.0, i);
nd = n * factor;
ni = trunc(nd);
fraction = nd - ni;
if (fraction = 0.5)
return (ni + 1)/factor;
if (fraction = -0.5)
return (ni - 1)/factor;
return ni/factor;
}

Apologies for using C and warnings that I haven't thoroughly tested  
this.


P.S. You could also write a round-even function for Excel and get  
them to use it on their next printout! :-)


-- Andy

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[GENERAL] changing the endianness of a database

2008-05-12 Thread Chris Saldanha

Hi,

We'd like to ship PostgreSQL as part of a product that runs on both PPC and
Intel Macs, but the database files are tied to the build settings and
endianness of the computer that the database was initialized on.

Is there any way to cause the server to modify the database files in-place
for endianness issues?  I know that a backup-then-restore process would fix
the data, but on Macs, many users use Apple's computer migration tools to
copy all their programs/data/users/etc.. to new Macs.

If the user moves from a PPC to an Intel Mac, for instance, the database
would be copied over, but the data would be for the old computer, and the
database won't start.  The backup/restore process is hard for end users,
since they don't understand it -- and they won't contact us until after the
migration is done, and often not until they've discarded the old computer.

It would be nice if there was a way to recover the data from the existing
database files.

I found this old thread on a related topic, and it seems that this cannot be
done...
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2008-01/msg00635.php

Thanks,
Chris

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Re: [GENERAL] changing the endianness of a database

2008-05-12 Thread Merlin Moncure

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Chris Saldanha
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  We'd like to ship PostgreSQL as part of a product that runs on both PPC and
  Intel Macs, but the database files are tied to the build settings and
  endianness of the computer that the database was initialized on.

  Is there any way to cause the server to modify the database files in-place
  for endianness issues?  I know that a backup-then-restore process would fix
  the data, but on Macs, many users use Apple's computer migration tools to
  copy all their programs/data/users/etc.. to new Macs.

  If the user moves from a PPC to an Intel Mac, for instance, the database
  would be copied over, but the data would be for the old computer, and the
  database won't start.  The backup/restore process is hard for end users,
  since they don't understand it -- and they won't contact us until after the
  migration is done, and often not until they've discarded the old computer.

  It would be nice if there was a way to recover the data from the existing
  database files.

  I found this old thread on a related topic, and it seems that this cannot be
  done...
  http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2008-01/msg00635.php

Surely it's easier just to have your application dump on schedule and
add some front end GUI import feature to your app?  It looks like you
are maybe trying to solve the wrong problem...namely that it is too
difficult for your users to do backup/restore themselves.

merlin

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems


Justin wrote:

No floating point is being used every variable is declared as numeric on 
the Postgresql side and in the C++  which is the UI side everything is 
double.


`double' in C++ refers to double precision floating point. `double' is 
subject to all the usual fun with rational decimals being irrational 
binary floats (and vice versa).


One of the reasons I chose Java for my current work is that it has a 
built-in decimal type (like `numeric') called BigDecimal . This makes 
working with exact quantities a lot easier as there's no conversion and 
rounding occurring each time data goes to/from the database.


Are there any particular decimal/numeric libraries people here like to 
use with C++ ? Or do you just use double precision floats and a good 
deal of caution?


I'd expect that using double would be OK so long as the scale of your 
numeric values never approaches the floating point precision limit of 
the double type. I'm far from sure about that, though, and it'd be handy 
to hear from people who're doing it. Personally I like to stick to 
numeric/decimal types.


--
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[GENERAL] Recovering database after disk crash

Hello

A disk hosting an instance of 8.2 crashed on me (hardware failure).  I
was able to pull most of the data off the drive, but the one database
that I need the most is corrupt.  I'm not really sure where to
start... so here are some error messages:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/log/postgresql$ pg_dump  EPC
pg_dump: SQL command failed
pg_dump: Error message from server: ERROR:  index
pg_opclass_am_name_nsp_index contains unexpected zero page at block
0
HINT:  Please REINDEX it.
pg_dump: The command was: SELECT tableoid, oid, *, (SELECT rolname
FROM pg_catalog.pg_roles WHERE oid = '10') as lanowner FROM
pg_language WHERE lanispl ORDER BY oid

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/log/postgresql$ reindexdb EPC
NOTICE:  table pg_class was reindexed
reindexdb: reindexing of database EPC failed: ERROR:  catalog is
missing 4 attribute(s) for relid 10762

Almost every operation I attempt ends in a similar error message:

EPC=# \dt
ERROR:  index pg_opclass_am_name_nsp_index contains unexpected zero
page at block 0
HINT:  Please REINDEX it.

EPC=# select * from siemr_sys.zip_codes;
ERROR:  catalog is missing 10 attribute(s) for relid 1337158

EPC=# select * from siemr_sys.sex_list;
ERROR:  catalog is missing 2 attribute(s) for relid 1337150

EPC=# select * from siemr_data.visits;
ERROR:  catalog is missing 7 attribute(s) for relid 1337095

Is there some way I can extract the data from the tables even if the
metadata is corrupt?

Thanks
Vic

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Re: [GENERAL] changing the endianness of a database


Merlin Moncure wrote:


Surely it's easier just to have your application dump on schedule and
add some front end GUI import feature to your app?  It looks like you
are maybe trying to solve the wrong problem...namely that it is too
difficult for your users to do backup/restore themselves.


Maybe it's an opportunity to introduce the users to backups.

Honestly, though, PostgreSQL doesn't seem to be designed for application 
bundling and embedding, where the user never knows there's a database 
engine present. I'm under the impression that there's no consideration 
of what happens if you move from 32 to 64 bit hosts, big endian to 
little endian, etc; it's expected that you'll dump and reload.


The ability to build a custom standalone backend that could read (and 
only read) a foreign database structure would be pretty handy in this 
sort of situation and other cases of poorly planned disaster recovery or 
migration. Of course, it's much better to avoid such situations, but 
where end users are involved they're always going to arise.


It's a pity the system cloning/migration tools don't have hooks for 
applications to do pre-migration and post-migration tasks, so you could 
just dump then initdb and reload.


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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems




Craig Ringer wrote:

Justin wrote:

No floating point is being used every variable is declared as numeric 
on the Postgresql side and in the C++  which is the UI side 
everything is double.


`double' in C++ refers to double precision floating point. `double' is 
subject to all the usual fun with rational decimals being irrational 
binary floats (and vice versa).


One of the reasons I chose Java for my current work is that it has a 
built-in decimal type (like `numeric') called BigDecimal . This makes 
working with exact quantities a lot easier as there's no conversion 
and rounding occurring each time data goes to/from the database.

Not according to MS specific if i'm reading it correctly

*Microsoft Specific *

The double type contains 64 bits: 1 for sign, 11 for the exponent, and 
52 for the mantissa. Its range is +/--1.7E308 with at least 15 digits of 
precision


Are there any particular decimal/numeric libraries people here like to 
use with C++ ? Or do you just use double precision floats and a good 
deal of caution?


I'd expect that using double would be OK so long as the scale of your 
numeric values never approaches the floating point precision limit of 
the double type. I'm far from sure about that, though, and it'd be 
handy to hear from people who're doing it. Personally I like to stick 
to numeric/decimal types.


--
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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

As i'm playing around with rounding and the numeric field precision ran 
into a odd set of results i don't understand


here is the sql i wrote the first four inserts are calculations we run 
everyday and they make sense but if  division is used the results are 
not right or am i missing something


create table test_num (
   num1 numeric(20,1),
   num2 numeric(20,2),
   num3 numeric(20,3),
   num4 numeric(20,4),
   num5 numeric(20,5),
   num6 numeric(20,6),
   num7 numeric(20,7),
   num8 numeric(20,8),
   num9 numeric(20,9));

delete from test_num;

insert into test_num values ( (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05),
 (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05),
 (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05));

insert into test_num values ( (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05),
 (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05),
 (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05));

insert into test_num values( (.5/.03), (.5/.3), (.5/3),

(.5/30), (.5/300), (.5/3000),
(.5/3), (.5/3), (.5/3));


insert into test_num values( (.5/.03)*.9975, (.5/.3)*.9975, (.5/3)*.9975,
(.5/30)*.9975, (.5/300)*.9975, (.5/3000)*.9975,
(.5/3)*.9975, (.5/3)*.9975, (.5/3)*.9975);

insert into test_num values( (9*.1),

(9*.01),
(9*.001),
(9*.0001),
(9*.1),
(9*.01),
(9*.001),
(9*.0001),
(9*.1));

insert into test_num values ( (9/10),
 (9/100),
 (9/1000),
 (9/1),
 (9/10),
 (9/100),
 (9/1000),
 (9/1),
 (9/10));

insert into test_num values( (1*.1),

(1*.01),
(1*.001),
(1*.0001),
(1*.1),
(1*.01),
(1*.001),
(1*.0001),
(1*.1));
   
insert into test_num values ( (1/10),

 (1/100),
 (1/1000),
 (1/1),
 (1/10),
 (1/100),
 (1/1000),
 (1/1),
 (1/10));

select * from test_num ;
  
  


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Re: [GENERAL] changing the endianness of a database

2008-05-12 Thread Chris Saldanha

 Maybe it's an opportunity to introduce the users to backups.

Yes, we do backups for the user, but the problem with Apple's migration is
that it happens not on a schedule that meshes with the backup schedule.  Our
applications have fairly frequently changing data.

 Honestly, though, PostgreSQL doesn't seem to be designed for application
 bundling and embedding, where the user never knows there's a database
 engine present. I'm under the impression that there's no consideration
 of what happens if you move from 32 to 64 bit hosts, big endian to
 little endian, etc; it's expected that you'll dump and reload.

Agreed that PGSQL isn't designed for embedding, but it's actually very close
to being supportable in that kind of use model.  The binaries and database
files are nicely contained, the server/libraries can be easily built as a
Universal (i.e. multi-architecture) binary for Macs, and the server is
actually quite small (26MB for a complete install as PPC/Intel binaries not
stripped) compared to commercial databases.

If the data files themselves were portable or convertible, then it would be
an almost perfect solution.

 It's a pity the system cloning/migration tools don't have hooks for
 applications to do pre-migration and post-migration tasks, so you could
 just dump then initdb and reload.

Yes, that's exactly the problem.  For the migration, you actually shut down
the old Mac that's the source of the data and boot it in a special FireWire
disk mode, and connect it like a hard disk to the new Mac.  As a result,
there's no code able to run on the source computer during the migration.

For our kind of users (non-technical often), it's almost impossible to have
them plan out stuff or even consider what needs to be done in terms of
advance tasks.

I had hoped that there would be a way to rescue the database, even if it
took a lot of processing...

Chris

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Re: [GENERAL] Making sure \timing is on

2008-05-12 Thread David Fetter

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:48:29PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
 Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Is it reasonable behavior to have \timing along toggle and \timing on
  / \timing off be a forced switch?  Just thinking of other scripts
  where this isn't a problem and having to update them.
 
 The command without an argument should certainly keep the old toggle
 behavior, for backwards compatibility.

Attached patch does some of the right thing, but doesn't yet handle
error cases.  How liberal should we be about capitalization, spelling,
etc.?

Cheers,
David.
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Index: src/bin/psql/command.c
===
RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/psql/command.c,v
retrieving revision 1.188
diff -r1.188 command.c
887c887,897
   pset.timing = !pset.timing;
---
   char   *opt = psql_scan_slash_option(scan_state,
   
  OT_NORMAL, NULL, true);
   if (opt)
   {
   if (strcmp(opt, on) == 0)
   pset.timing = true;
   else if (strcmp(opt, off) == 0)
   pset.timing = false;
   }
   else
   pset.timing = !pset.timing;

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Re: [GENERAL] Recovering database after disk crash

After doing some more reading I've come to the conclusion that I'm in
completely over my head.  I got a fresh copy of the corrupt data and
am starting from the very beginning.  Here's the error I get on
startup:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/lib/postgresql/8.2/bin$ ./postgres  -D
/var/lib/postgresql/8.2/main
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  could not load root certificate file
root.crt: no SSL error reported
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT DETAIL:  Will not verify client certificates.
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  database system was interrupted at
2008-04-16 09:28:36 CDT
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  unexpected pageaddr 0/1114A000 in log
file 0, segment 17, offset 14295040
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  invalid primary checkpoint record
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  unexpected pageaddr 0/1114A000 in log
file 0, segment 17, offset 14295040
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  invalid secondary checkpoint record
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT PANIC:  could not locate a valid checkpoint record
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  startup process (PID 8359) was
terminated by signal 6
2008-05-12 16:16:02 CDT LOG:  aborting startup due to startup process failure

pg_control output:

 ./pg_controldata /var/lib/postgresql/8.2/main
pg_control version number:822
Catalog version number:   200611241
Database system identifier:   5126483664462806975
Database cluster state:   in production
pg_control last modified: Wed 16 Apr 2008 09:28:36 AM CDT
Current log file ID:  0
Next log file segment:18
Latest checkpoint location:   0/11DA3C38
Prior checkpoint location:0/11DA3BF0
Latest checkpoint's REDO location:0/11DA3C38
Latest checkpoint's UNDO location:0/0
Latest checkpoint's TimeLineID:   1
Latest checkpoint's NextXID:  0/908105
Latest checkpoint's NextOID:  2001259
Latest checkpoint's NextMultiXactId:  7
Latest checkpoint's NextMultiOffset:  13
Time of latest checkpoint:Wed 16 Apr 2008 09:13:56 AM CDT
Minimum recovery ending location: 0/0
Maximum data alignment:   4
Database block size:  8192
Blocks per segment of large relation: 131072
WAL block size:   8192
Bytes per WAL segment:16777216
Maximum length of identifiers:64
Maximum columns in an index:  32
Date/time type storage:   64-bit integers
Maximum length of locale name:128
LC_COLLATE:   en_US.UTF-8
LC_CTYPE: en_US.UTF-8

I ran pg_resetxlog in my previous mucking around, but that's when all
hell broke loose, so I'm holding off until someone more qualified
advises me to do so.

TIA

Vic

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems


I tried casting them to numeric and it was still wrong

OK i just added decimal point after the 9 and 1  it work at that point.

Thats an odd result i would not have expected it to do that.

This prompts another question how does postgres figure out the data
types passed in an SQL string???

Andy Anderson wrote:
I would guess the issue is that 9/10 is an integer calculation, with 
result 0. Use instead 9./10 or 9/10. or 9./10. with result 0.9.


-- Andy

On May 12, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Justin wrote:

As i'm playing around with rounding and the numeric field precision 
ran into a odd set of results i don't understand


here is the sql i wrote the first four inserts are calculations we 
run everyday and they make sense but if  division is used the results 
are not right or am i missing something


create table test_num (
   num1 numeric(20,1),
   num2 numeric(20,2),
   num3 numeric(20,3),
   num4 numeric(20,4),
   num5 numeric(20,5),
   num6 numeric(20,6),
   num7 numeric(20,7),
   num8 numeric(20,8),
   num9 numeric(20,9));

delete from test_num;

insert into test_num values ( (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05),
 (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05),
 (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05), (0.70 *1.05));

insert into test_num values ( (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 
*1.05),

 (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05),
 (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05), (0.709 *1.05));
insert into test_num values( (.5/.03), (.5/.3), (.5/3),
(.5/30), (.5/300), (.5/3000),
(.5/3), (.5/3), (.5/3));


insert into test_num values( (.5/.03)*.9975, (.5/.3)*.9975, 
(.5/3)*.9975,

(.5/30)*.9975, (.5/300)*.9975, (.5/3000)*.9975,
(.5/3)*.9975, (.5/3)*.9975, (.5/3)*.9975);
insert into test_num values( (9*.1),
(9*.01),
(9*.001),
(9*.0001),
(9*.1),
(9*.01),
(9*.001),
(9*.0001),
(9*.1));

insert into test_num values ( (9/10),
 (9/100),
 (9/1000),
 (9/1),
 (9/10),
 (9/100),
 (9/1000),
 (9/1),
 (9/10));
insert into test_num values( (1*.1),
(1*.01),
(1*.001),
(1*.0001),
(1*.1),
(1*.01),
(1*.001),
(1*.0001),
(1*.1));
   insert into test_num values ( (1/10),
 (1/100),
 (1/1000),
 (1/1),
 (1/10),
 (1/100),
 (1/1000),
 (1/1),
 (1/10));

select * from test_num ;

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

Justin wrote:

Craig Ringer wrote:

`double' in C++ refers to double precision floating point. `double' is
subject to all the usual fun with rational decimals being irrational
binary floats (and vice versa).

Not according to MS specific if i'm reading it correctly

*Microsoft Specific *

The double type contains 64 bits: 1 for sign, 11 for the exponent, and
52 for the mantissa. Its range is +/--1.7E308 with at least 15 digits of
precision

I take it you're referring to:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/e02ya398(VS.80).aspx ?

See how it says The format is similar to the float format ?

As you can see from:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hd7199ke(VS.80).aspx

the `double' type is a binary floating point representation, just like
float. It just has a bigger exponent and a bigger mantissa, so it can
represent more extreme values and do so with more precision.

Being a binary floating point representation it's subject to all the
usual problems with comparison for equality, rounding oddities, etc.

Here's one of the many explanations out there on the 'net. I haven't
read this particular one, it's just a viable looking Google hit:

http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/floating_point/understanding_floating_point.html

By the way, there was at least a proposal for a numeric/decimal type for
C++0x . It doesn't seem to have made the cut.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:D0Iqhgz7X1QJ:www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2006/n2041.pdf+%22c%2B%2B0x%22+decimal+OR+numerichl=enct=clnkcd=1gl=auclient=firefox-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B0x
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/

It looks like ISO C might adopt a decimal type or library though:

http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/decimal/

Note in particular the support in gcc 4.2 or newer.

There's also a library:

http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/decimal/dfpal/

that might be useful.

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Re: [GENERAL] Making sure \timing is on

2008-05-12 Thread Bruce Momjian

David Fetter wrote:
 On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:48:29PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
  Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   Is it reasonable behavior to have \timing along toggle and \timing on
   / \timing off be a forced switch?  Just thinking of other scripts
   where this isn't a problem and having to update them.
  
  The command without an argument should certainly keep the old toggle
  behavior, for backwards compatibility.
 
 Attached patch does some of the right thing, but doesn't yet handle
 error cases.  How liberal should we be about capitalization, spelling,
 etc.?

Please try ParseVariableBool() in psql/variables.c, and use diff -c.

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Re: [GENERAL] Making sure \timing is on

2008-05-12 Thread Alvaro Herrera

David Fetter escribió:
 On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:48:29PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
  Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   Is it reasonable behavior to have \timing along toggle and \timing on
   / \timing off be a forced switch?  Just thinking of other scripts
   where this isn't a problem and having to update them.
  
  The command without an argument should certainly keep the old toggle
  behavior, for backwards compatibility.
 
 Attached patch does some of the right thing, but doesn't yet handle
 error cases.  How liberal should we be about capitalization, spelling,

Hmm, there's already code for parsing boolean variables in psql, see
ParseVariableBool.

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The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems


Justin wrote:

I tried casting them to numeric and it was still wrong


How do the results differ from what you expect? You've posted a bunch of 
code, but haven't explained what you think is wrong with the results.


Can you post a couple of SMALL examples and explain how the results are 
different from what you expect them to be?


Try the example using the following formats for the literals in your test:

   2.0
   '2.0'::numeric  (this is a BCD decimal)
   '2.0'::float4 (this is a C++/IEEE float)
   '2.0'::float8 (this is a C++/IEEE double)

and see how the results differ.

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Re: [GENERAL] Making sure \timing is on

2008-05-12 Thread David Fetter

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 05:30:48PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
 David Fetter wrote:
  On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:48:29PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
   Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is it reasonable behavior to have \timing along toggle and \timing on
/ \timing off be a forced switch?  Just thinking of other scripts
where this isn't a problem and having to update them.
   
   The command without an argument should certainly keep the old toggle
   behavior, for backwards compatibility.
  
  Attached patch does some of the right thing, but doesn't yet handle
  error cases.  How liberal should we be about capitalization, spelling,
  etc.?
 
 Please try ParseVariableBool() in psql/variables.c, and use diff -c.

Thanks for the heads-up :)

Second patch attached, this time with some docs.

Cheers,
David.
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Index: doc/src/sgml/ref/psql-ref.sgml
===
RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql/doc/src/sgml/ref/psql-ref.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.203
diff -c -r1.203 psql-ref.sgml
*** doc/src/sgml/ref/psql-ref.sgml  8 May 2008 17:04:26 -   1.203
--- doc/src/sgml/ref/psql-ref.sgml  12 May 2008 21:56:59 -
***
*** 1867,1876 
  
  
varlistentry
!termliteral\timing/literal/term
  listitem
  para
!  Toggles a display of how long each SQL statement takes, in 
milliseconds.
  /para
 /listitem
/varlistentry
--- 1867,1879 
  
  
varlistentry
!termliteral\timing /literal [replaceable
! class=parameterON/replaceable | replaceable
! class=parameterOFF/replaceable] /term
  listitem
  para
!  Without parameter, toggles a display of how long each SQL
! statement takes, in milliseconds.  With parameter, sets same.
  /para
 /listitem
/varlistentry
Index: src/bin/psql/command.c
===
RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/psql/command.c,v
retrieving revision 1.188
diff -c -r1.188 command.c
*** src/bin/psql/command.c  8 May 2008 17:04:26 -   1.188
--- src/bin/psql/command.c  12 May 2008 21:57:01 -
***
*** 884,890 
/* \timing -- toggle timing of queries */
else if (strcmp(cmd, timing) == 0)
{
!   pset.timing = !pset.timing;
if (!pset.quiet)
{
if (pset.timing)
--- 884,895 
/* \timing -- toggle timing of queries */
else if (strcmp(cmd, timing) == 0)
{
!   char   *value = psql_scan_slash_option(scan_state,
!   
   OT_NORMAL, NULL, false);
!   if (value)
!  pset.timing = ParseVariableBool(value);
!   else
!   pset.timing = !pset.timing;
if (!pset.quiet)
{
if (pset.timing)

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Re: [GENERAL] changing the endianness of a database

2008-05-12 Thread A.M.



On May 12, 2008, at 4:02 PM, Chris Saldanha wrote:


Hi,

We'd like to ship PostgreSQL as part of a product that runs on both  
PPC and

Intel Macs, but the database files are tied to the build settings and
endianness of the computer that the database was initialized on.

Is there any way to cause the server to modify the database files in- 
place
for endianness issues?  I know that a backup-then-restore process  
would fix
the data, but on Macs, many users use Apple's computer migration  
tools to

copy all their programs/data/users/etc.. to new Macs.

If the user moves from a PPC to an Intel Mac, for instance, the  
database
would be copied over, but the data would be for the old computer,  
and the
database won't start.  The backup/restore process is hard for end  
users,
since they don't understand it -- and they won't contact us until  
after the
migration is done, and often not until they've discarded the old  
computer.


It would be nice if there was a way to recover the data from the  
existing

database files.

I found this old thread on a related topic, and it seems that this  
cannot be

done...
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2008-01/msg00635.php


You know that you don't have to compile postgresql as Universal,  
right? If you have separate PPC and Intel versions (not lipo'd  
together), then, presumably, you should be able to figure out which  
one needs to run. The PPC postgresql would then run on the Macintel  
under Rosetta and you would then have control to proceed with an  
automatic dump/restore. However, this would not work for someone  
moving the database from an Intel machine to a PPC machine.


Postgresql is simply not well-suited for such uncontrolled  
environments. What happens when you upgrade postgresql? Do you then  
ship with 4 version of the db (Intel/PPC * 8.2/83)? Perhaps you should  
dump all the non-transient data whenever the application is shut down  
(in anticipation of an upgrade)?


Cheers,
M

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Re: [GENERAL] Hung SQL Update Linux Redhat 4U5 Postgres 8.3.1

2008-05-12 Thread Craig Vosburgh

 
 What's the locktype?


Yep, locktype is transaction.

 If (as I suspect) it's a transaction or
 virtualtransaction lock, then which process holds that lock and what's
 it doing?  

As for which process owns that lock, I'm not sure how to find that out
(sorry newbie).  I can find the PID that is waiting for that lock and I can
find the table/row that appears to be waiting for the lock to perform the
action but I can't figure out which process actually owns the lock that is
causing the issue.

 For that matter, what is the stuck process doing?
 pg_stat_activity output should be sufficient here.
 
 regards, tom lane

I've enabled stats tracking and the process that is hung has the following
data in the pg_stat_activity table

 datid | datname | procpid | usesysid | usename  |
current_query  
| waiting |  xact_start   |  query_start  |
backend_start | client_addr | client_port
---+-+-+--+--+--

-+-+
---+---+
---+-+-
 16384 | collage |   20938 |   10 | postgres | update ips set
address=$1, usage=$2, subnet_rips_id=$3, hostname=$4, errored=$5,
errorReason=$6, modinfo=$7, name=$8, description=$9 where bmo_id=$10 | t
| 2008-05-11 17:25:04.484224-06 | 2008-05-11 17:25:04.528319-06 | 2008-05-11
17:02:00.016083-06 | 127.0.0.1   |   49056

Everything else in the table is either IDLE or IDLE in transaction.

Thanks again,
-Craig

On 5/12/08 1:11 PM, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems


I guess i have not been very clear.

lets take this
   select (9/10), (9/10)::numeric, (9::numeric/10::numeric), (9./10),
(9*.1)

With the given select statement i  expected the results all to be same,
especially sense it cast 4 of the 5 to numeric either with explicit cast
or by containing a decimal.  Instead postgresql cast the  first 2
calculations to integer, it then uses integer math so the result is 0.

To Add further conversion to my small brain there is a specific type
cast to the second calculation but it still returned 0.  Not what i
would have expected.  After thinking about it for say 10 seconds, i see
that Postgresql is following the order of operation in the 2nd
calculation where it does integer math then cast the results to numeric.

I made the incorrect assumption Postgresql would have casted all the
arguments to numeric then done the math.  After thinking this through
for a short bit i see why postgresql is casting the arguments to integer
type as numeric/floating point math can be a pretty heavy hit
performance wise.

So this prompts the question how does postgresql decide what types to
cast arguments to.  It seems thus far if a decimal is found in the
argument its numeric and everything else is assumed to be integer if it
does not contain a decimal point.




Craig Ringer wrote:

Justin wrote:

I tried casting them to numeric and it was still wrong


How do the results differ from what you expect? You've posted a bunch 
of code, but haven't explained what you think is wrong with the results.


Can you post a couple of SMALL examples and explain how the results 
are different from what you expect them to be?


Try the example using the following formats for the literals in your 
test:


   2.0
   '2.0'::numeric  (this is a BCD decimal)
   '2.0'::float4 (this is a C++/IEEE float)
   '2.0'::float8 (this is a C++/IEEE double)

and see how the results differ.

--
Craig Riniger





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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

2008-05-12 Thread Christophe

Yet another option, of course, is to simply not do any calculations  
in PostgreSQL, and accept the results from Excel as definitive...  
which seems to be what is desired, anyway.


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Re: [GENERAL] Hung SQL Update Linux Redhat 4U5 Postgres 8.3.1

Craig Vosburgh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 As for which process owns that lock, I'm not sure how to find that out
 (sorry newbie).  I can find the PID that is waiting for that lock and I can
 find the table/row that appears to be waiting for the lock to perform the
 action but I can't figure out which process actually owns the lock that is
 causing the issue.

It's whichever one actually holds that same lock according to pg_locks
(ie, there's an entry that matches on locktype and transactionid but
has granted = 't'; then join the pid of that entry against
pg_stat_activity).

regards, tom lane

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[GENERAL] Server not listening

2008-05-12 Thread D Galen


If this isn't the right place to post this, please advise.

I've spent a week trying to get PostgreSQL 8.3 to install correctly on 
WIN2K.  Server will load  I see the server processes loaded but none of 
them have any open ports.  I keep getting the message  the server isn't 
listening.  Server set up to connect to default port 5432 on localhost 
but doesn't appear to be opening the port when it loads.


   Any help would be welcome.  
Thanks,

 Dennis


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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems


On May 12, 2008, at 6:37 PM, Justin wrote:

lets take this
   select (9/10), (9/10)::numeric, (9::numeric/10::numeric), (9./10),
(9*.1)

With the given select statement i  expected the results all to be  
same,
especially sense it cast 4 of the 5 to numeric either with explicit  
cast

or by containing a decimal.  Instead postgresql cast the  first 2
calculations to integer, it then uses integer math so the result is 0.


Putting a decimal on a string of digits is the standard way to  
specify that it's numeric rather than integer; see 4.1.2.4. Numeric  
Constants:


	http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/sql-syntax- 
lexical.html#AEN1276


In other words, 9. is equivalent to 9::numeric, though the latter  
involves an operation on an integer.


If a calculation contains a numeric value, any integers involved will  
be cast to a numeric value first, and then the calculation will  
proceed numerically.


9/10 = 0	(a purely integer calculation, division truncates the  
fractional part)
(9/10)::numeric = 0::numeric = 0.  		(using parentheses forces the  
integer calculation to occur *before* the cast)
9::numeric/10::numeric = 9./10. = 0.9		(using one or two casts  
forces a numeric calculation)
9./10 = 9./10. = 0.9(specifying a numeric value forces the  
integer to be cast to numeric)



To Add further conversion to my small brain there is a specific type
cast to the second calculation but it still returned 0.  Not what i
would have expected.  After thinking about it for say 10 seconds, i  
see

that Postgresql is following the order of operation in the 2nd
calculation where it does integer math then cast the results to  
numeric.


I made the incorrect assumption Postgresql would have casted all the
arguments to numeric then done the math.


Not when you change the order of evaluation by using parentheses. See  
the precedence table in 4.1.6. Lexical Precedence:


	http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/sql-syntax- 
lexical.html#SQL-PRECEDENCE



After thinking this through
for a short bit i see why postgresql is casting the arguments to  
integer

type as numeric/floating point math can be a pretty heavy hit
performance wise.

So this prompts the question how does postgresql decide what types to
cast arguments to.


It starts with operator precedence to determine the order of  
operation, and then for each operator it decides how it will cast  
arguments for the best results.


-- Andy


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Re: [GENERAL] Recovering database after disk crash

Vic Simkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/log/postgresql$ reindexdb EPC
 NOTICE:  table pg_class was reindexed
 reindexdb: reindexing of database EPC failed: ERROR:  catalog is
 missing 4 attribute(s) for relid 10762

If you're really lucky, doing the reindex with ignore_system_indexes
enabled will go through.  Otherwise, it's time to go back to your
last backups :-(

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] changing the endianness of a database

2008-05-12 Thread Shane Ambler


A.M. wrote:

You know that you don't have to compile postgresql as Universal, 
right? If you have separate PPC and Intel versions (not lipo'd 
together), then, presumably, you should be able to figure out which one 
needs to run. The PPC postgresql would then run on the Macintel under 
Rosetta and you would then have control to proceed with an automatic 
dump/restore. However, this would not work for someone moving the 
database from an Intel machine to a PPC machine.


That would be my suggestion - run a ppc version to dump then restore 
with an intel version. Maybe a startup script can detect when to do this.


Maybe this is an argument against making universal postgres binaries.

Postgresql is simply not well-suited for such uncontrolled environments. 
What happens when you upgrade postgresql? Do you then ship with 4 
version of the db (Intel/PPC * 8.2/83)? Perhaps you should dump all the 
non-transient data whenever the application is shut down (in 
anticipation of an upgrade)?


As far as upgrades that could/should be handled in the installer script. 
Dump from the installed version then install the new one and restore.

That is - using Apple's installer setup.



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pgSQL (at) Sheeky (dot) Biz

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Re: [GENERAL] Recovering database after disk crash

If I'm understanding the errors correctly it seems that the corruption
is in the system catalogs (metadata). The database does not use any
fancy datatypes. Is there any way for me to rebuild the metadata
manually? If I can see the leftover metadata and the data minus the
missing metadata I can probably piece everything together enough to
get the data out.

 Does that make sense or am I off my rocker?



On 5/12/08, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Vic Simkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/log/postgresql$ reindexdb EPC
  NOTICE:  table pg_class was reindexed
  reindexdb: reindexing of database EPC failed: ERROR:  catalog is
  missing 4 attribute(s) for relid 10762

 If you're really lucky, doing the reindex with ignore_system_indexes
 enabled will go through.  Otherwise, it's time to go back to your
 last backups :-(

   regards, tom lane



-- 
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religious conviction.

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Re: [GENERAL] Recovering database after disk crash

Vic Simkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 If I'm understanding the errors correctly it seems that the corruption
 is in the system catalogs (metadata). The database does not use any
 fancy datatypes. Is there any way for me to rebuild the metadata
 manually? If I can see the leftover metadata and the data minus the
 missing metadata I can probably piece everything together enough to
 get the data out.

Based on the evidence so far, the disk failure has zeroed out multiple,
randomly-chosen pages of your system catalogs.  I'd think it very likely
indeed that random pages of your table files got the same favor.
You won't have any way to know what is missing ...

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] Recovering database after disk crash

During the initial ill-educated messing around I had set the
zero_damaged_pages to yes, but I'm guessing that the end result is the
same... Ill try it with the fresh copy of [the corrupt] data

What kind of a database can't deal with a bit of random values
injected into its sytem files anyways? :)



On 5/12/08, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Vic Simkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  If I'm understanding the errors correctly it seems that the corruption
  is in the system catalogs (metadata). The database does not use any
  fancy datatypes. Is there any way for me to rebuild the metadata
  manually? If I can see the leftover metadata and the data minus the
  missing metadata I can probably piece everything together enough to
  get the data out.

 Based on the evidence so far, the disk failure has zeroed out multiple,
 randomly-chosen pages of your system catalogs.  I'd think it very likely
 indeed that random pages of your table files got the same favor.
 You won't have any way to know what is missing ...

   regards, tom lane



-- 
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction.

-Blaise Pascal

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

2008-05-12 Thread Sam Mason

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 06:37:02PM -0400, Justin wrote:
 I guess i have not been very clear.
 
 lets take this
select (9/10), (9/10)::numeric, (9::numeric/10::numeric), (9./10),
 (9*.1)
 
 With the given select statement i  expected the results all to be same,
 especially sense it cast 4 of the 5 to numeric either with explicit cast
 or by containing a decimal.  Instead postgresql cast the  first 2
 calculations to integer, it then uses integer math so the result is 0.
 
 To Add further conversion to my small brain there is a specific type
 cast to the second calculation but it still returned 0.  Not what i
 would have expected.  After thinking about it for say 10 seconds, i see
 that Postgresql is following the order of operation in the 2nd
 calculation where it does integer math then cast the results to numeric.

PG does very similar things to what C does.  '9' is an integer literal,
and so is '10', there is a '/' operator that takes two integers and
returns an integer and this gets used, resulting in an integer.  If you
happen to cast the thing to a value of numeric type this will happen
after the division (i.e. it follows the syntax, like C does).  Casting
the integers to values of numeric type is similar, just the numeric
version of the division operator gets used.  The last example exercises
a different code path, in that '9.' is a value of numeric type and '10'
is still of integer type.  There's some magic somewhere in PG that says
that values of numeric type are more expressive than values of integer
type causing the parser (I'm guessing here) to insert a cast to numeric
type.  The types now unify and one value can be divided by the other.

The magic seems somewhat arbitrary; what if I wanted to go to the less
precise type or generally be told when things didn't unify.

 I made the incorrect assumption Postgresql would have casted all the
 arguments to numeric then done the math.  After thinking this through
 for a short bit i see why postgresql is casting the arguments to integer
 type as numeric/floating point math can be a pretty heavy hit
 performance wise.

I don't think it's accurate to say the behaviour is there because
of performance reasons, it's just evaluating your code as you've
written it.  The behaviour you describe is closer to an untyped (i.e.
dynamically checked, or as they seem to be popularly known weakly
typed) scripting language.  Either that or something like Haskell which
treats types much more rigorously than PG, where the expression (9.0 /
(10::Int)) would fail to type check, and 9.0/10 (or even 9/10) would do
what you wanted and parse 10 as any value that implements the fractional
type class (probably a floating point number).

The easiest way to understand what's going on is generally playing with
a single expression, then changing the literals to represent values
of different types and seeing how the result changes.  You may get
some mileage out of using EXPLAIN VERBOSE (you can see the cast being
inserted in the 9./10 case, when compared to 9/10---function OID 1740
takes an int4 and returns a numeric) but it's somewhat difficult to
read.


  Sam

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Re: [GENERAL] How to create a function with multiple RefCursor OUT parameters

2008-05-12 Thread Chuck Bai

The following is a function from PosgreSQL documentation to return 
multiple cursors from a single function:


CREATE FUNCTION myfunc(refcursor, refcursor) RETURNS SETOF refcursor AS $$
BEGIN
   OPEN $1 FOR SELECT * FROM table_1;
   RETURN NEXT $1;
   OPEN $2 FOR SELECT * FROM table_2;
   RETURN NEXT $2;
END;
$$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;

-- need to be in a transaction to use cursors.
BEGIN;

SELECT * FROM myfunc('a', 'b');

FETCH ALL FROM a;
FETCH ALL FROM b;
COMMIT;


What I want to achieve is to modify the function to take an INOUT 
parameter. For example:
myfunc(INOUT tcount integer, refcursor, refcursor). I want to add logic 
to my INOUT parameter inside the function and return it back to client, 
as well as returning the two refcursor results. How to modify this 
function and how to test it in SQL to achieve my goal?


Merlin Moncure wrote:

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Chuck Bai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

 CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION test_refcursor(INOUT tcount integer, OUT o_user
refcursor, OUT o_name refcursor)
  RETURNS record AS
 $BODY$
 BEGIN
   tcount := tcount + 1;
   OPEN o_user FOR SELECT * FROM user_table;
   OPEN o_name FOR SELECT * FROM name_table;
 END;
 $BODY$
  LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' VOLATILE

 Question 1: The function is not working with Npgsql .NET data provider. It
did not return a valid .NET DataSet. But the INOUT parameter tcount works
fine. How could I test the above function with SQL in pgAdmin III? I want to
find out if problem is in the function or in the Npgsql.



You can test from pgAdmin by simply running queries in the query
window.  This sort of thing however might be a better fit for psql
(pasting your queries in the query window).  You need to use
transactions since refcursors only only good inside a transaction.

  

 Question 2: pgAdmin III automatically added RETURNS record in the above
function when RETURNS clause is not specified initially. Why is that? Is
this the problem since it returns only single data table with the following
value? How to fix it?



For a function with 1 out parameters, the output type is a record.
Your function returns (int, refcursor, refcursor) as defined.  SELECT
* FROM test_refcursor(7); would returns a row with three variables ( a
record).

  

 tcount  o_user  o_name
 23  unnamed portal 1  unnamed portal 2



You probably want to name your refcursors.  The way to do this is
simply o_user := 'something'; inside your pl/pgsql function.

-- inside pl/pgsql_function
refcur_variable := 'mycursor'

-- outside function, but in same transaction
FETCH ALL FROM mycursor -- or, mycursor

So, it would at least take a few 'queries' from the perppective of the
client to do what you are attempting.  However, all the data is 'set
up' for return to the client by the server in the main function.  The
server will hang on to it as long as the current transaction is valid
and then release it.

  

 Question 3: I want to return a single DataSet with each OUT RefCursor map
to a DataTable within the DataSet,  plus extra OUT parameters for individual
OUT values. How could I create such a function?



Your question is a little opaque to me.  A refcursor is in PostgreSQL
terms a 'hande' to a set, not a DataTable the way you are
thinking...it's really a fancy string.  so, (INOUT int, OUT refcursor,
OUT refcursor) returns takes an 'int' in and returns an int and two
refcursors (strings), with extra work to return this to the client, at
least in terms of SQL statements.

I haven't used .net for a while but IIRC it's probably not possible to
'fill' multiple data tables in a single query without at least some
manual work.  Some of the npgsql experts might have some suggestions
however.  It really depends on how the code operates inside the npgsql
library.

merlin

  



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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

thats what   i'm trying to get a grasp on, what postgres is doing with 
calculation as it truncates or rounds the number when committing the 
records to the physical table.


I just start digging into this as we are having problems where some 
fields in the database are precision of 2 and other go all the way to 10 
decimal places. 

The table layout we have is not consistent and the result are hundred to 
thousandths of pennies off but those pennies start become dollars every 
100 to 1000 transactions.  It seems the pg rounding is  favoring the 
lower side of the number when being committed to the table.  I've been 
going over transactions in WIP and compared to values in the Generial 
Ledger i'm off 6 cents and thats only on 36 transactions that i have 
handcheck.GL has a  lower value compared to the records in WIP 
tables which have 4 and 6 decimals precision versues GL 2 decimal 
precision in the tables


I going through the tables and making all the numeric fields all the 
same.  I have run into problems as some of columns are referenced by 
views and other constraints and its not letting me change them.  :'(


WE have several columns in table defined with numeric (20,10) thats is 
just insanity.   Unless your doing scientific calculations which we do, 
do.   Having that many decimal points for an accounting package is just 
nonsense and then its rounded to 4 or 6 in Inventory  and Wip tables 
then 2 when the numbers finally hit the GL tables.Who ever laid 
these tables out has never had to try and get numbers to balance and 
agree across tables :-( .   Every time i dig a little deeper i keep 
finding stupid things like this.


Some people may think i'm crazy trying to track this down but when 
you're only consume 0.003186 lbs of a metal per part that cost 22.7868 
per  lb and the work order calls fro 1148 parts.  how the machine rounds 
becomes a big problem   (.00318611*1148) = 3.65765 lbs consumed * 
22.7868 = $83.3462 . Sense GL tables are 2 decimal the value is stored 
as $83.35


But the problem is far worse than that.  BOM allows for greater 
precision of 8 wip Inventory Movements shows only 6, Wip tables has 6  
and 4.


The question quickly becomes what number is the correct number.  Wip 
truncates the material consumed to .003186*1148 = 3.6575  * 22.7868  = 
83.3434 which is rounded = 83.34


Multiply this by 1000 transactions a day and we start having major problems.




Sam Mason wrote:

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 06:37:02PM -0400, Justin wrote:
  

I guess i have not been very clear.

lets take this
   select (9/10), (9/10)::numeric, (9::numeric/10::numeric), (9./10),
(9*.1)

With the given select statement i  expected the results all to be same,
especially sense it cast 4 of the 5 to numeric either with explicit cast
or by containing a decimal.  Instead postgresql cast the  first 2
calculations to integer, it then uses integer math so the result is 0.

To Add further conversion to my small brain there is a specific type
cast to the second calculation but it still returned 0.  Not what i
would have expected.  After thinking about it for say 10 seconds, i see
that Postgresql is following the order of operation in the 2nd
calculation where it does integer math then cast the results to numeric.



PG does very similar things to what C does.  '9' is an integer literal,
and so is '10', there is a '/' operator that takes two integers and
returns an integer and this gets used, resulting in an integer.  If you
happen to cast the thing to a value of numeric type this will happen
after the division (i.e. it follows the syntax, like C does).  Casting
the integers to values of numeric type is similar, just the numeric
version of the division operator gets used.  The last example exercises
a different code path, in that '9.' is a value of numeric type and '10'
is still of integer type.  There's some magic somewhere in PG that says
that values of numeric type are more expressive than values of integer
type causing the parser (I'm guessing here) to insert a cast to numeric
type.  The types now unify and one value can be divided by the other.

The magic seems somewhat arbitrary; what if I wanted to go to the less
precise type or generally be told when things didn't unify.

  

I made the incorrect assumption Postgresql would have casted all the
arguments to numeric then done the math.  After thinking this through
for a short bit i see why postgresql is casting the arguments to integer
type as numeric/floating point math can be a pretty heavy hit
performance wise.



I don't think it's accurate to say the behaviour is there because
of performance reasons, it's just evaluating your code as you've
written it.  The behaviour you describe is closer to an untyped (i.e.
dynamically checked, or as they seem to be popularly known weakly
typed) scripting language.  Either that or something like Haskell which
treats types much more rigorously than PG, where the expression (9.0 /
(10::Int)) would fail

Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems

Justin wrote:

 WE have several columns in table defined with numeric (20,10) thats is
 just insanity.

Not necessarily. I have a few places where a monetary value is
mulitiplied by a ratio quantity. For some of the historical data
imported from another system the ratio can be irrational or at least not
representable in any small precision value.

I ended up needing a precision of 8 numeric digits to acceptably
represent these ratios, resulting in a numeric(16,8) type to permit
ratio values up to . . I probably could've got away with
numeric(13,8) or even numeric(12,8) but as space and performance aren't
utterly critical it didn't seem to be worth the risk of hitting limits
and overflows later. As it is I'm tempted to go to 10 digits of
precision, as there's still a 3 cent difference between the totals from
the old system and the same data imported into the new system.

You'll encounter similar situations in your materials consumption
tracking (as you detailed below) and other places. So don't discount the
 use of high precision numeric values just yet.

Personally I'd be tempted to use a `double precision' (float8) for
things like materials consumption. Materials consumed in huge quantities
will have lower price rates, and materials consumed in tiny quantities
will often be priced higher. With wally-numbers: You're not going to
care about the 0.0003 kg of steel consumed at a price of $0.1 , but
the same amount of something valuable might have a detectable (if still
sub-cent) value. Floating point numbers are IMO better for that than BCD
numeric. However, since the float will just get converted to numeric
during multiplication with a numeric price-per-mass ratio it may well
not be worth worrying about it.

There's a use for that numeric(20,10).


   Unless your doing scientific calculations which we do,
 do.   Having that many decimal points for an accounting package is just
 nonsense and then its rounded to 4 or 6 in Inventory  and Wip tables
 then 2 when the numbers finally hit the GL tables. Who ever laid
 these tables out has never had to try and get numbers to balance and
 agree across tables :-( .   Every time i dig a little deeper i keep
 finding stupid things like this.

It sounds like you might have quite a bit of compounded rounding error
from the successive stages of rounding as data moves through the system.
Maybe you're rounding too aggressively?

I like to store a bit more precision than I have to, unless there's a
business rule that requires rounding to a particular precision. For
example, if your invoice items are rounded to whole cents you'd probably
round the calculated invoice item price when inserting into an invoice
item table.

Of course, that means that
   sum(calculation of invoice item price)
   
   sum(rounded price of invoice items)
because of rounding. That's fine; you can't balance the two things
exactly because they're actually subtly different things. If you're
using an appropriate rounding method for financial data, like
round-to-even, you'll only ever get a couple of cents difference and
that should be expected and ignored.

 Some people may think i'm crazy trying to track this down but when
 you're only consume 0.003186 lbs of a metal per part that cost 22.7868
 per  lb and the work order calls fro 1148 parts.  how the machine rounds
 becomes a big problem   (.00318611*1148) = 3.65765 lbs consumed *
 22.7868 = $83.3462 . Sense GL tables are 2 decimal the value is stored
 as $83.35

Thinking about correct rounding and precision is very important, and far
from crazy.

 The question quickly becomes what number is the correct number.

Sometimes the answer is both of them - even though they are different.
See the example above with rounded invoice items.

--
Craig Ringer

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Re: [GENERAL] rounding problems