Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the mailing list are what really matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was shut down without that happening. FTP archive or not. gBorg won't be just shut down until its ready to happen, don't worry about that ... I've sent you a private email about migration, and will follow up with you as soon as I've been able to look into the database migration aspect ... I'm happy with that, as long as everyone understands that: - Migrating my CVS and mailing-lists is not something I can do by myself - My project is alive and would take a serious hit if the upload functionality was disabled - Being ridiculed by displaying dancing elephants on GBorg wouldn't exactly be honoring my efforts None of the above will happen, I can assure you ... or, at least, the second two ... the first one we'll work on ... I'm just looking into some things right now ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Marc G. Fournier wrote: I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the mailing list are what really matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was shut down without that happening. FTP archive or not. gBorg won't be just shut down until its ready to happen, don't worry about that ... I've sent you a private email about migration, and will follow up with you as soon as I've been able to look into the database migration aspect ... I'm happy with that, as long as everyone understands that: - Migrating my CVS and mailing-lists is not something I can do by myself - My project is alive and would take a serious hit if the upload functionality was disabled - Being ridiculed by displaying dancing elephants on GBorg wouldn't exactly be honoring my efforts I could move everything all by myself I would have done so a long time ago. Extra 'motivation' is not necessary. Regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] possible design bug with PQescapeString()
> Tatsuo Ishii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I suggest that PQescapeString() should have a parameter to specify the > > encoding of "to". > > You mean the encoding of "from", no? Oops, "from", yes. > But actually I'd argue that > letting the client programmer supply the encoding is still a pretty > dangerous practice. Your example demonstrates that if the encoding > PQescapeString is told is different from the encoding the backend parser > thinks is in use, problems result. Perhaps we should pass the PGconn > to new-PQescapeString and let it dig the client encoding out of that. Sound good to pass PGconn to new-PQescapeString. Here is the proposed calling sequence for the new function: size_t PQescapeStringWithConn (const PGconn *conn, char *to, const char *from, size_t length) If this is ok, I will implement for 8.2. > You could still get burnt if the client encoding changes between the > invocation of new-PQescapeString and the sending of the constructed > command, but that's a fairly unlikely case. > > The bottom line to this though is that these encodings are just plain > dangerous. I'm more than half tempted to suggest that the only secure > answer is to drop support for these encodings. Consider for example > an application that isn't using PQescapeString but has its own > double-backslashes-and-quotes logic embedded. You can break it if you > can manage to get the backend to think that the client encoding is SJIS > or similar. That's a hazard we're basically not ever going to be able > to prevent. Dropping support for SJIS and so on will not be practical at all since these encodings has been widely used and I don't see these encodings are deprecated in the near future. I think dropping the support will simply prevent people from using PostgreSQL. Especially in Windows world, these encodings are pretty common. I know that these encodings are broken in their design and actually I hate them:-) But this is real world and we have to live with them... -- Tatsuo Ishii SRA OSS, Inc. Japan ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] possible design bug with PQescapeString()
Tatsuo Ishii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I suggest that PQescapeString() should have a parameter to specify the > encoding of "to". You mean the encoding of "from", no? But actually I'd argue that letting the client programmer supply the encoding is still a pretty dangerous practice. Your example demonstrates that if the encoding PQescapeString is told is different from the encoding the backend parser thinks is in use, problems result. Perhaps we should pass the PGconn to new-PQescapeString and let it dig the client encoding out of that. You could still get burnt if the client encoding changes between the invocation of new-PQescapeString and the sending of the constructed command, but that's a fairly unlikely case. The bottom line to this though is that these encodings are just plain dangerous. I'm more than half tempted to suggest that the only secure answer is to drop support for these encodings. Consider for example an application that isn't using PQescapeString but has its own double-backslashes-and-quotes logic embedded. You can break it if you can manage to get the backend to think that the client encoding is SJIS or similar. That's a hazard we're basically not ever going to be able to prevent. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: don't feel upset, that time I already learned how to control missile :) Ack, you were one of those in the missile silo's?? Definitely not a job I'd envy anyone :( I doubt that if her were still doing it, that he would be allowed to tell us ;) Studiying was obligatory, but that helps people to avoid an army. I luckily missed Afghanistan :) I'm absolutely civilian astronomer. Joshua D. Drake Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Domains and supporting functions
elein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I've got a domain based on a text type. > I've overridden the equal operator with > lower(text) = lower(text). This won't work, you need to make a type instead. > If this is the way domains really are, I would strongly suggest > expanding create domain to merge with create type (under) and > allow us to list the basic functions. IMHO, the exact difference between a domain and a type is you get to choose your own definitions of the basic operations on a type. There's no free lunch: as soon as you start substituting operations the complexity involved goes up by an order of magnitude. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Anyone able to beat that? Sorry, I was still in Junior High in '82 :( Man, you are *old* :) At Marc hands himself a foot gun... I was 9 years old in 82. damn, now *I* feel old :) don't feel upset, that time I already learned how to control missile :) Ack, you were one of those in the missile silo's?? Definitely not a job I'd envy anyone :( that time it was obligatory for students of our depratment (of physics). Actually, I took part in war games during Moscow Olympiad. Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] possible design bug with PQescapeString()
I believe PQescapeString() has an important design bug and it casues a
security risk.
The function's signature is:
size_t PQescapeString (char *to, const char *from, size_t length);
As you might notice, it's impossible to specify encoding of "to". As a
result, it turns every occurrences of 0x27(') or 0x5c(\) to 0x270x27
or 0x5c0x5c. This is fine with ASCII, UTF-8, EUC-JP and so on. However
cetain Asian multibyte charsets such as SJIS, Big5 and GBK have a bit
pattern in that the second byte is 0x27(') or 0x5c(\). Applying
PQescapeString() to them will produce invalid character sequences.
But there's more. Problem is, PQescapeString() makes SQL injections
possible. Here is an example:
There is an application which selects particlular member info from a
table in this way:
SELECT * FROM members WHERE member_name = 'var';
Users can input value for "var" from a web form. The attacker inputs
following string:
(0x95+0x27);DELETE FROM members;--
where 0x95+0x27 is actually a SJIS mutibyte KANJI. Programmer applies
PQescapeString() to it and gets:
0x95+0x27+0x27;DELETE FROM members;--
and the result SQL will be:
SELECT * FROM members WHERE member_name = '0x95+0x27';DELETE FROM members;--';
You lose members table:-<
Conclusion:
I suggest that PQescapeString() should have a parameter to specify the
encoding of "to".
BTW it's irony that PQescapeStringt man page stats like this:-)
Tip: It is especially important to do proper escaping when handling
strings that were received from an untrustworthy source. Otherwise
there is a security risk: you are vulnerable to "SQL injection"
attacks wherein unwanted SQL commands are fed to your database.
--
Tatsuo Ishii
SRA OSS, Inc. Japan
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[HACKERS] Domains and supporting functions
I've got a domain based on a text type.
I've overridden the equal operator with
lower(text) = lower(text).
I created a table containing my new domain type
and can see that the equals operator is not
being used to determine uniqueness.
What do I need to do to force the UNIQUE constraint
to use the equals function? Is sort going to ignore
the > and < I've defined for this type, too?
Must I create an opclass and create the UNIQUE index
separately from the table creation?
This seems extreme when what I really want to do is to
override the basic comparing functions.
If this is the way domains really are, I would strongly suggest
expanding create domain to merge with create type (under) and
allow us to list the basic functions.
--elein
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Example;
--
-- check constraint isemail for email base type
--
create or replace function isemail(text) returns boolean as
$$
if ( $_[0] =~
m/^([A-Z0-9]+[._]?){1,}[A-Z0-9]+\@(([A-Z0-9]+[-]?){1,}[A-Z0-9]+\.){1,}[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
) {
return TRUE;
}
else {
return FALSE;
}
$$ language 'plperl';
--
-- create type email under text
--
create domain email as text check ( isemail( value) );
--
-- Equals: lower(text) = lower(text)
--
create or replace function email_eq (email, email) returns boolean as
$$
select case when lower($1) = lower($2) then TRUE else FALSE end;
$$ language 'sql';
create operator = (
PROCEDURE = email_eq,
LEFTARG = email,
RIGHTARG = email
);
create table aliases (
email email UNIQUE PRIMARY KEY,
lname text
);
\echo expect PK ERROR
insert into aliases values ('[EMAIL PROTECTED]', 'PK');
insert into aliases values ('[EMAIL PROTECTED]', 'PK');
--
PostgreSQL Consulting, Support & Training
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Varlena, LLCwww.varlena.com
PostgreSQL General Bits http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/
--
I have always depended on the [QA] of strangers.
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Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
("Joshua D. Drake") transmitted:
>>>
>>> Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
>>> lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
>>> *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
>>> project...
>>
>> SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting
>> pgFoundry to use it got stalled somewhere along the way ...
> Yes.. I called no joy after finding a complete lack of documentation
> on integrating it. See the archives :)
Ah, fair enough. It probably makes sense to start arguing again about
what to do about pgFoundry on the Slony-I list...
I have some time again to get on with some Slony-I work after things
had gotten a bit nuts in other areas, between a new TLD grabbing all
my time, and then the personal matter of my father undergoing (happily
successful) cancer surgery. I think I had a client connect to the IRC
channel for about a week and a bit of not being around to watch it
:-(.
Anyway, it probably makes some sense to move Slony-I over some time
soon.
--
select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'acm.org';
http://linuxdatabases.info/info/lisp.html
"Implying that youcan build systems without rigourous interface
specification is always a powerful selling technique to the clueless."
-- Paul Campbell, seen in comp.object.corba
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Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing project information to an FTP directory so it can be reclaimed as needed. I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the mailing list are what really matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was shut down without that happening. FTP archive or not. gBorg won't be just shut down until its ready to happen, don't worry about that ... I've sent you a private email about migration, and will follow up with you as soon as I've been able to look into the database migration aspect ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one project... SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting pgFoundry to use it got stalled somewhere along the way ... Yes.. I called no joy after finding a complete lack of documentation on integrating it. See the archives :) Ya, I know ... just wasn't pointing any fingers >:) Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one project... SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting pgFoundry to use it got stalled somewhere along the way ... Yes.. I called no joy after finding a complete lack of documentation on integrating it. See the archives :) Joshua D. Drake Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan) would write: If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in excellent shape. Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one project... SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting pgFoundry to use it got stalled somewhere along the way ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
don't feel upset, that time I already learned how to control missile :) Ack, you were one of those in the missile silo's?? Definitely not a job I'd envy anyone :( I doubt that if her were still doing it, that he would be allowed to tell us ;) Joshua D. Drake Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Anyone able to beat that? Sorry, I was still in Junior High in '82 :( Man, you are *old* :) At Marc hands himself a foot gun... I was 9 years old in 82. damn, now *I* feel old :) don't feel upset, that time I already learned how to control missile :) Ack, you were one of those in the missile silo's?? Definitely not a job I'd envy anyone :( Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Lamar Owen wrote: So, as to Usenet, earliest documented date is May 1992. Ran a leaf node with Waffle for a while, then an AT&T 3B1 later, running C News and SMail. The skypod.UUCP email that I posted earlier was on a friends 3B2 machine ... my first Unix account :) Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
Joshua D. Drake wrote: >>> damn, now *I* feel old :) >>> >>> >> I *GRADUATED* High School in 1975. >> > Can you still walk without a cane? > > /me laughs as Larry chases after him with his cane, swearing about > whipper snappers. > >> Started posting on UseNet in 1988. >> >> LER Quite well, thank you. LER -- Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler Phone: +1 512-248-2683 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3683 US ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
damn, now *I* feel old :) I *GRADUATED* High School in 1975. Can you still walk without a cane? /me laughs as Larry chases after him with his cane, swearing about whipper snappers. Started posting on UseNet in 1988. LER -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> Anyone able to beat that? >>> >>> Sorry, I was still in Junior High in '82 :( Man, you are *old* :) >>> >> >> At Marc hands himself a foot gun... I was 9 years old in 82. > > damn, now *I* feel old :) > I *GRADUATED* High School in 1975. Started posting on UseNet in 1988. LER -- Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler Phone: +1 512-248-2683 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3683 US ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Bruce Momjian wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Bruce Momjian wrote: Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to their heads. If we don't push folks, nothing will happen, which is what has happened for years now. Let's set a date and tell people to move, or else. Keeping our stuff split like this is not helping us. Slowly disabling things is also an option to encourage people to move, while not ending up with a huge number of projects trying to move in the same week. Disabling the ability to create new accounts and projects will tell both existing and new people that this is not the place to be going forward. If you need a new developer or project, you need to put in the effort to move your project. Disabling the ability to upload files will make people create a project on PgFoundry when they make a new releases, putting more pressure on to move across. Even with the above two items changed, it would soon encourage people to move, or at least create a project on PgFoundry and move there file releases there. CVS and mailing lists will need to be moved by admins, but that process doesn't need to be done in a single day. It creates more operational overhead for each project in the short term, but that will continue to push them to migrate. Who are the people who can help move projects across and how can they be contacted? Maybe posting some news items on gborg about it would encourage people. Having the people who can help available to assist people to move will mean that more projects are likely too. I agree dates need to be made, not necessarily about the total shutdown, but feature removal dates will mean people are much more likely to "want" to move. Regards Russell Smith ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
This is not "get everything everyone wants before shutting down a site" time. We should move to one site, and if the new site is not to someone's liking, there is always sourceforge and other hosting sites. I do agree with Bruce here but... we need to make sure that we give everyone their data. If Gborg does CVS like Gforge we may have a problem in that there is only one cvs repository. Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Christopher Browne wrote: > Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan) > would write: > > If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with > > PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, > > SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in > > excellent shape. > > Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a > lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. > *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one > project... This is not "get everything everyone wants before shutting down a site" time. We should move to one site, and if the new site is not to someone's liking, there is always sourceforge and other hosting sites. -- Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Christopher Browne wrote: Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan) would write: If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in excellent shape. Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one project... SVN is actually on pgFoundry and Apache is ready to allow webdav connections. What doesn't work is the integration with pgFoundry/Gforge. Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, pgman@candle.pha.pa.us (Bruce
Momjian) wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
>> Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> >> Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
>> >> have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
>> >> let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.
>>
>> > I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry
>> > and offered my help
>> > in the process,
>>
>> Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg
>> projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to
>> their heads.
>
> If we don't push folks, nothing will happen, which is what has happened
> for years now. Let's set a date and tell people to move, or else.
> Keeping our stuff split like this is not helping us.
Be sure there's a carrot as well as the stick...
pgFoundry does generally look more featureful, which is a good thing.
A choice of CVS and SVN would be a bigger carrot...
--
output = reverse("moc.liamg" "@" "enworbbc")
http://linuxdatabases.info/info/internet.html
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about foreign languages: They exist to make us laugh."
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Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan)
would write:
> If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with
> PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available,
> SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in
> excellent shape.
Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...
--
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','gmail.com').
http://linuxdatabases.info/info/slony.html
"...In my phone conversation with Microsoft's lawyer I copped to the
fact that just maybe his client might see me as having been in the
past just a bit critical of their products and business
practices. This was too bad, he said with a sigh, because they were
having a very hard time finding a reporter who both knew the industry
well enough to be called an expert and who hadn't written a negative
article about Microsoft." -- Robert X. Cringely
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Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Andrew Dunstan wrote: > If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with > PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN > as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in excellent > shape. > > I'd rather move forwards than back. I don't care what direction we go, just kill one. We are at the "dancing bear" stage with this thing, like we were with the web site redesign: [ old posting ] > > > We have been talking about a new web page layout for years at this > > > point. I almost don't care if they just put a dancing bear up on the > > > web site. Let's do something! > > > > What's wrong with the existing one? Have you designed the dancing bear > > you'd like us to put up in place of what we have now? > > Looking around now. Perhaps a dancing elephant. WARNING: This will > make you ill: > > http://janetskiles.com/ART/greeting/greet-ani/dancing-elephant.jpg That URL is priceless, and perhaps instead of shutting down the old server, we should just put this up on there to shame people into moving. Anyway, it is time to do something, and doing "anything" is starting to look good. I think I even have some stuff on gborg and would move it if there was a push to do that, so I know from experience that a deadline is what it is going to take. -- Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Tom Lane wrote: > Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we > >> have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so > >> let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. > > > I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry > > and offered my help > > in the process, > > Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg > projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to > their heads. If we don't push folks, nothing will happen, which is what has happened for years now. Let's set a date and tell people to move, or else. Keeping our stuff split like this is not helping us. -- Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Multiple logical databases
On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 08:05:48AM -0500, Mark Woodward wrote:
> Like I said, in this thread of posts, yes there are ways of doing this,
> and I've been doing it for years. It is just one of the rough eges that I
> think could be smoother.
>
> (in php)
> pg_connect("dbname=geo host=dbserver");
>
> Could connect and query the dbserver, if the db is not on it, connect to a
> database of known servers, find geo, and use that information to connect.
> It sounds like a simple thing, for sure, but to be useful, there needs to
> be buy in from the group otherwise it is just some esoteric hack.
It turns out what you like actually exists, lookup the "service"
parameter in the connectdb string. It will read the values for the
server, port, etc from a pg_service.conf file.
There is an example in the tree but it looks something like the following:
[servicename]
dbname=blah
user=blah
pass=blah
So all you need to specify is "service=servicename" and it will grab
the parameters. This allows you to change the connection without
changeing the code.
Hope this helps,
--
Martijn van Oosterhout http://svana.org/kleptog/
> Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a
> tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone
> else to do the other 95% so you can sue them.
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Config file for psql
On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 12:19:39PM -0700, Michael Fuhr wrote: > On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 07:52:22PM +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: > > A little while ago there was someone asking for tools to make it easier > > to connect to multiple servers. It occured to me that it might be > > useful to have a config file the way ssh does it: > > Something like pg_service.conf? Hardly anybody ever mentions it > even though the libpq documentation refers to it; I wonder how many > people even know it exists. I'd say not many? If you search the mail archives for "pg_service.conf" in the last two years, there's only 15 matches and even then it's only ever mentioned on -hackers or -patches. For example, nobody brought it up that last thread about connecting to multiple servers, even though it would have been the perfect solution. I certainly never heard of it and I've been using postgres and been on -general for several years. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout http://svana.org/kleptog/ > Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a > tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone > else to do the other 95% so you can sue them. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Config file for psql
Andrew Dunstan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > This needs a LOT more prominence. We probably need to refer to these > things on the manual pages for each of the libpq clients we have. > Haven't we learned that lesson from .pgpass ? The number of people who > read the libpq docs is probably vanishingly small. Perhaps we should make a concerted effort to split the libpq docs into a section "for programmers" vs one "for users", the latter part covering the libpq behavior that is interesting to users of a libpq-based app. .pgpass, pg_service, the environment vars, SSL behavior, maybe some other things belong in the "for users" part. I think only the environment-vars page is currently linked from the client-apps reference pages, but if we did this we could link to the entire for-users section and be done with it. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Config file for psql
Michael Fuhr wrote: On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 07:52:22PM +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: A little while ago there was someone asking for tools to make it easier to connect to multiple servers. It occured to me that it might be useful to have a config file the way ssh does it: Something like pg_service.conf? Hardly anybody ever mentions it even though the libpq documentation refers to it; I wonder how many people even know it exists. http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/libpq.html#LIBPQ-CONNECT http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/libpq-envars.html This needs a LOT more prominence. We probably need to refer to these things on the manual pages for each of the libpq clients we have. Haven't we learned that lesson from .pgpass ? The number of people who read the libpq docs is probably vanishingly small. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Adding an ignore list to pg_restore
Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Tom Lane [2006-02-18 13:32 -0500]: >> Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> The core problem is that we want to not restore objects (mainly >>> tables) in the destination database which already exist. >> >> Why is this a problem? It's already the default behavior --- the >> creation commands fail but pg_restore keeps going. > The problem is that pg_restore would restore the TABLE DATA object, > although we don't want that (the postgis specific tables are > pre-populated by PostGIS itself, and should not be altered by the > upgrade. Hm. Rather than a variant of the -L facility (which is hard to use, and I don't see your proposal being much easier), maybe what's wanted is just a flag saying "don't try to restore data into any table whose creation command fails". Maybe that should even be the default ... and you could extend it to indexes and constraints on such tables too, as those would likely end up being duplicated as well. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Config file for psql
On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 07:52:22PM +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: > A little while ago there was someone asking for tools to make it easier > to connect to multiple servers. It occured to me that it might be > useful to have a config file the way ssh does it: Something like pg_service.conf? Hardly anybody ever mentions it even though the libpq documentation refers to it; I wonder how many people even know it exists. http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/libpq.html#LIBPQ-CONNECT http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/libpq-envars.html -- Michael Fuhr ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to their heads. Well that is not exactly true. We have been encouraging gborg projects to move for at least a year. What we haven't done is provided an easy means to do so. But frankly after seeing, working on and with pgFoundry I don't think pushing them there is a good choice either. Documentation is very sparse, bugs are rampant and I don't want to even consider the possible security issues involved with it. That being said, as an inclusive solution there really isn't anything else out there :( I think that's overstating it a bit (even though I know you held back ;-) ). We have stomped on most of the significant bugs that have arisen from our implementation, and gotten some fixes from upstream too. We do have a couple of GForge devs who help us out. We have in fact been pretty careful about security issues. Frankly, what we need is someone with enough dedicated time and drive to push the migration through. Ideally that would be someone who could work fulltime for the several weeks I suspect a complete migration would take. Unfortunately, I don't know of such a resource. If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in excellent shape. I'd rather move forwards than back. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Config file for psql
Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: > A little while ago there was someone asking for tools to make it > easier to connect to multiple servers. It occured to me that it might > be useful to have a config file the way ssh does it: That looks suspiciously like the service facility that we already have. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [SQL] Interval subtracting
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Tom Lane wrote: > "Milen A. Radev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Milorad Poluga : > >>> SELECT '10 years 1 mons 1 days'::interval - '9 years 10 mons 15 > >>> days'::interval > >>> ?column? > >>> --- > >>> 3 mons -14 days > >>> > >>> Why not '2 mons 16 days' ? > > > Please read the last paragraph in section 8.5.1.4 of the manual > > (http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/static/datatype-datetime.html#AEN4775) > > . It mentions the functions named "justify_days" and "justify_hours" > > that could do what you need. > > justify_days doesn't currently do anything with this result --- it > thinks its charter is only to reduce day components that are >= 30 days. > However, I think a good case could be made that it should normalize > negative days too; that is, the invariant on its result should be > 0 <= days < 30, not merely days < 30. What about cases like interval '1 month -99 days', should that turn into interval '-3 mons +21 days' or '-2 mons -9 days'? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Adding an ignore list to pg_restore
Hi Tom! Tom Lane [2006-02-18 13:32 -0500]: > Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The core problem is that we want to not restore objects (mainly > > tables) in the destination database which already exist. > > Why is this a problem? It's already the default behavior --- the > creation commands fail but pg_restore keeps going. The problem is that pg_restore would restore the TABLE DATA object, although we don't want that (the postgis specific tables are pre-populated by PostGIS itself, and should not be altered by the upgrade. (Stephen knows the details of PostGIS). Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to their heads. Well that is not exactly true. We have been encouraging gborg projects to move for at least a year. What we haven't done is provided an easy means to do so. But frankly after seeing, working on and with pgFoundry I don't think pushing them there is a good choice either. Documentation is very sparse, bugs are rampant and I don't want to even consider the possible security issues involved with it. That being said, as an inclusive solution there really isn't anything else out there :( Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
[HACKERS] Config file for psql
Hi, A little while ago there was someone asking for tools to make it easier to connect to multiple servers. It occured to me that it might be useful to have a config file the way ssh does it: Host production ServerName db1 DBName main Usernameblah Passwordblah UseSSL yes Host test ServerName db2 ServerPort 5434 DBName main Username blah Password blah Host * Usernamedefault So when you type "psql test" it fills in the server name, port, database, username and password for you. For hosts not listed, it gives a default username "default". It's really just a variation on the .netrc file. Thoughts? -- Martijn van Oosterhout http://svana.org/kleptog/ > Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a > tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone > else to do the other 95% so you can sue them. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 09:31:18AM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we > have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so > let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Well, first you need to mark one as deprecated. Looking at both sites I don't see anything indicating that either is to be preferred. You can still sign up to both of them. How is one to know a migration is expected? Secondly, say I have a project to migrate, what next? Googling for "gborg migration" doesn't bring up anything useful. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout http://svana.org/kleptog/ > Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a > tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone > else to do the other 95% so you can sue them. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Bruce Momjian wrote: >> Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we >> have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so >> let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. > I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and > offered my help > in the process, Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to their heads. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Adding an ignore list to pg_restore
Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The core problem is that we want to not restore objects (mainly > tables) in the destination database which already exist. Why is this a problem? It's already the default behavior --- the creation commands fail but pg_restore keeps going. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [SQL] Interval subtracting
"Milen A. Radev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Milorad Poluga напиÑа: >>> SELECT '10 years 1 mons 1 days'::interval - '9 years 10 mons 15 >>> days'::interval >>> ?column? >>> --- >>> 3 mons -14 days >>> >>> Why not '2 mons 16 days' ? > Please read the last paragraph in section 8.5.1.4 of the manual > (http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/static/datatype-datetime.html#AEN4775) > . It mentions the functions named "justify_days" and "justify_hours" > that could do what you need. justify_days doesn't currently do anything with this result --- it thinks its charter is only to reduce day components that are >= 30 days. However, I think a good case could be made that it should normalize negative days too; that is, the invariant on its result should be 0 <= days < 30, not merely days < 30. Similarly for justify_hours. Comments anyone? Patch anyone? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
Lamar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So, Tom, did you enjoy being linked with the Backbone Cabal? What part did > you play in the Great Renaming? CMU was never part of the Usenet backbone, really. The backbone was the sites that did the bulk of the work in passing news to places that had to get it via dialup --- we're talking modems and long-distance calls here. (A lot of the backbone sites actually belonged to Bell Labs and similar institutions that got their phone service for free ;-)) AFAIR CMU did all its news-passing across the internet and predecessors thereof, which meant that we only exchanged news directly with a few other places similarly fortunate to be on the net. The current environment where everybody and his dog has an IP address didn't start to happen till years later, as I'm sure you recall. So I was never in a position of being able to determine what news other sites could or couldn't get, which was pretty much the defining property of the Cabal. As for the Great Renaming, yup, I remember that --- I think the fallout was still falling at the time I took over the newsadmin chores. (It might be that the previous holder of the post resigned because he was burned out due to that mess, but this is speculation not memory.) regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
On Saturday 18 February 2006 12:16, Michael Fuhr wrote: > On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 09:28:58AM -0500, Lamar Owen wrote: > > In 1982 I was doing hexadecimal machine code on that TRS-80 Model III, > > whose non-disk boot lines you quote. My favorite Z80 joke: > > 01 > > 110100 > > 21 > > EDB0 > > (Punchline: one-track mind.) > > Heh heh :-) Did plenty of that, though usually on 3C00-3FFF. Most efficient way to bitblit on the TRS-80although using the six pixel character cell graphics was, to say the least, _interesting_. I did a LIFE on the TRS-80 complete with a full screen graphical editor in 512 bytes. No assembly required; I may have the DEBUG listing around somewhere...time to pull out the catweasel. Ok, too off-topic. Sorrylast on-list post from me on that branch of the thread... -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 09:28:58AM -0500, Lamar Owen wrote: > In 1982 I was doing hexadecimal machine code on that TRS-80 Model III, whose > non-disk boot lines you quote. My favorite Z80 joke: > 01 > 110100 > 21 > EDB0 > (Punchline: one-track mind.) Heh heh :-) Did plenty of that, though usually on 3C00-3FFF. -- Michael Fuhr ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] qsort again (was Re: [PERFORM] Strange Create
At 08:37 PM 2/15/2006, Dann Corbit wrote: Adding some randomness to the selection of the pivot is a known technique to fix the oddball partitions problem. True, but it makes QuickSort slower than say MergeSort because of the expense of the PRNG being called ~O(lgN) times during a sort. However, Bentley and Sedgewick proved that every quick sort algorithm has some input set that makes it go quadratic Yep. OTOH, that input set can be so specific and so unusual as to require astronomically unlikely bad luck or hostile hacking in order for it to actually occur. (hence the recent popularity of introspective sort, which switches to heapsort if quadratic behavior is detected. The C++ template I submitted was an example of introspective sort, but PostgreSQL does not use C++ so it was not helpful). ...and there are other QuickSort+Other hybrids that address the issue as well. MergeSort, RadixExchangeSort, and BucketSort all come to mind. See Gonnet and Baeza-Yates, etc. Here are some cases known to make qsort go quadratic: 1. Data already sorted Only if one element is used to choose the pivot; _and_ only if the pivot is the first or last element of each pass. Even just always using the middle element as the pivot avoids this problem. See Sedgewick or Knuth. 2. Data reverse sorted Ditto above. 3. Data organ-pipe sorted or ramp Not sure what this means? Regardless, median of n partitioning that includes samples from each of the 1st 1/3, 2nd 1/3, and final 3rd of the data is usually enough to guarantee O(NlgN) behavior unless the _specific_ distribution known to be pessimal to that sampling algorithm is encountered. The only times I've ever seen it ITRW was as a result of hostile activity: purposely arranging the data in such a manner is essentially a DoS attack. 4. Almost all data of the same value Well known fixes to inner loop available to avoid this problem. There are probably other cases. Randomizing the pivot helps some, as does check for in-order or reverse order partitions. Randomizing the choice of pivot essentially guarantees O(NlgN) behavior no matter what the distribution of the data at the price of increasing the cost of each pass by a constant factor (the generation of a random number or numbers). In sum, QuickSort gets all sorts of bad press that is far more FUD than fact ITRW. Ron. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Blog post on EnterpriseDB...maybe off topic
Josh, On 2/18/06 7:38 AM, "Luke Lonergan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I figure they'll have to do quite a lot to make progress in their chosen > market, including: > > - SQL*Net protocol compatibility > - Oracle Number datatype support > - ROWID unique row identifier > - Oracle Redo/Undo log format parsing and replay > - SQL Loader format support > - Oracle exp/imp format support I forgot one: - Make sort ordering equivalent to Oracle (trailing blanks don't count, for instance) - Luke ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Blog post on EnterpriseDB...maybe off topic
Josh, On 2/18/06 7:15 AM, "Joshua D. Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > EnterpriseDB is a fork of PostgreSQL that contains a reasonable level of > pl/SQL (Oracle) compatibility. > My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that they support packages, > in, inout paramters etc.. in > the same syntactical way that Oracle does. Thanks! I figure they'll have to do quite a lot to make progress in their chosen market, including: - SQL*Net protocol compatibility - Oracle Number datatype support - ROWID unique row identifier - Oracle Redo/Undo log format parsing and replay - SQL Loader format support - Oracle exp/imp format support The broader Oracle enterprise market is used to a high level of integration of Oracle instances across the enterprise, and their DBAs are highly trained to use these features. - Luke ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Blog post on EnterpriseDB...maybe off topic
I also wonder where their project is too - they seem publicly opaque about progress, etc. From the web site's statements it looks like they've written a tool to tune the postgresql.conf file from which they claim a 50% speed-up, but that's not new or unique "fork-level" functionality. EnterpriseDB is a fork of PostgreSQL that contains a reasonable level of pl/SQL (Oracle) compatibility. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that they support packages, in, inout paramters etc.. in the same syntactical way that Oracle does. Joshua D. Drake - Luke ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Bruce Momjian wrote: Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing project information to an FTP directory so it can be reclaimed as needed. I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the mailing list are what really matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was shut down without that happening. FTP archive or not. Kind Regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
On Friday 17 February 2006 20:44, Michael Fuhr wrote: > On Fri, Feb 17, 2006 at 09:35:32PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > Sorry, I was still in Junior High in '82 :( Man, you are *old* :) > > Anybody know some reasonable postgresql.conf settings for a system > that starts up with > > Cass? > Memory Size? > > 'cuz I still have one :-) And running xtrs, anyone can have one. I go (TRS-80-wise) a little earlier than that, as my first documented Usenet post asserts: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.computers/browse_thread/thread/aedd5baeb2e4e6ba/af8a503f1a33a192?lnk=st&q=%22lamar+owen%22&rnum=16&hl=en#af8a503f1a33a192 Prior to that I did some FIDO with a TRS-80 odel 16B under Xenix System III. In 1982 I was doing hexadecimal machine code on that TRS-80 Model III, whose non-disk boot lines you quote. My favorite Z80 joke: 01 110100 21 EDB0 (Punchline: one-track mind.) PostgreSQL in 48K? Ouch. What's wild is that the level-1 cache on my current processor is larger than that... So, as to Usenet, earliest documented date is May 1992. Ran a leaf node with Waffle for a while, then an AT&T 3B1 later, running C News and SMail. So, Tom, did you enjoy being linked with the Backbone Cabal? What part did you play in the Great Renaming? Man, this is totally off-topic, but a fun distraction... -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing project information to an FTP directory so it can be reclaimed as needed. -- Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
[HACKERS] Adding an ignore list to pg_restore
Hi PostgreSQL developers! On [1], Stephen and I are currently discussing how to provide seamless automatic version upgrades of PostgreSQL databases with third party modules like PostGIS. The core problem is that we want to not restore objects (mainly tables) in the destination database which already exist. pg_restore currently offers the -L option to selectively restore only particular objects, so our original idea was to automatically create this list based on the output of pg_dump -Fc --schema-only $db | pg_restore -l for the original and target databases. However, there is a fundamental problem with this approach. When using --schema-only, the generated list naturally does not contain TABLE DATA entries. This means that we cannot figure out the catalog id of the DATA object. Of course there are workarounds [2], but both of them are inefficient. So my current idea is to add a new option --ignore-list to pg_restore which specifies a file with objects that should not be restored. This file should not contain catalog IDs, but human readable data: type schema tag e. g. if we know that we don't want to restore the public.foo table, then this file would contain TABLE public foo TABLE DATA public foo I would be willing to provide an implementation, but before I wanted to ask if this feature is something you would generally accept, or regard as totally crackful? Another way would be to add an option which specifically ignores objects that are already present in the target database. This would be more robust and probably easier to implement, but less general than the ignore list. Thank you in advance for any comment, Martin [1] http://bugs.debian.org/351571 [2] (1) run pg_dump without --schema-only twice (once for pg_restore -l, second time for actual restoration), or (2) save pg_dump output into a temporary file -- Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
Jonah H. Harris said: > /me was 1 year old in 1982 > my *son* (whose name is Tom btw ;-) ) was 3 yrs old in '82 ... :-) As for the "first used Usenet" thing, I am fairly sure I used it or something very like it during "The VAX years", probably around '87. The earliest record I can find is '91 though. Tom sure beats me - in '82 I had not the slightest clue about computing other than using a mainframe app. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
Joshua D. Drake schrieb: > >>> >>> >>> Anyone able to beat that? >> >> >> Sorry, I was still in Junior High in '82 :( Man, you are *old* :) >> > > At Marc hands himself a foot gun... I was 9 years old in 82. cool. You too? :-) 1973 must have been a great year .-) Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Joshua D. Drake Sent: Sat 2/18/2006 4:09 AM To: Marc G. Fournier Cc: Tom Lane; Bruce Momjian; PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Updated email signature >> >> >> Anyone able to beat that? > > Sorry, I was still in Junior High in '82 :( Man, you are *old* :) > > > At Marc hands himself a foot gun... I was 9 years old in 82. So was I. Back on the point though, despite previous denials I'm starting to get my suspicions about Tom being part of the legendary Usenet Cabal again - especially with this new admission of being the news admin at CMU in the mid 80's... Ooh, is that a black helicop... /D ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
