Re: [Pharo-dev] Segmentation fault while installing Scale

[Ben Coman]

Are you on 64-bit using 32-bit Pharo?
Can you use ldd to check the pharo binary is linking to these 32-bit libraries?
http://pharo.org/gnu-linux-installation

When you get it working can you provide a recipe for the download page.

Alternatively you might try either (pre-release) 64-bit VM from...
http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/linux/
* pharo-linux-x86_64threaded-201702061308-aa78f27.zip
* pharo-linux-x86_64itimer-201702030802-61970b6.zip
http://forum.world.st/Unix-heartbeat-thread-vs-itimer-td4928943.html

and just expand the image zip in the same folder...
http://files.pharo.org/image/60/
* 60385-64.zip

cheers -ben

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:49 AM, Andrey Tykhonov  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>> and which VM do you use (there is a System report browser where you can
>> find the information.
>
> I've somehow managed to get the information from System report browser:
>
> Image
> -
> /home/demi/mess/2017/06/tmp2/Pharo.image
> Pharo5.0
> Latest update: #50768
> Unnamed
>
> Virtual Machine
> ---
> /home/demi/mess/2017/06/tmp2/pharo-vm/pharo
> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016
> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit:
> b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 +0200 By:
> Esteban Lorenzano  Jenkins build #589
>
> Unix built on May  4 2016 11:54:41 Compiler: 4.6.3
> VMMaker versionString https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit:
> b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 +0200 By:
> Esteban Lorenzano  Jenkins build #589
> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016
> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016
>
>
> I noticed that there are more items which could be selected (list in the
> left bar, I mean System report browser), but I cannot get more info, because
> pharo crashes each time I try to select all text from the all items. May be
> it would be helpful (and I'll be able to) to get information only from some
> particular item? But then, I need to know which exactly items would be
> helpful.
>
> Also, I'm attaching to this email log file after execution of the Pharo with
> strace:
>
> strace ./pharo-ui Pharo.image > pharo-ui-with-strace.log 2>&1
>
> I hope it could shed more light on the issue.
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Dimitris Chloupis]

I fail to see the problem here

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 1:52 AM p...@highoctane.be 
wrote:

> Am still finding useful stuff on Squeak wiki, sorry.
> The point of a Wiki is to capture discussions over a given topic and make
> it grow into something more structured over time. Like original c2 wiki.
>
> Phil
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Dimitris Chloupis 
> wrote:
>
> If you miss it so much we have something much better
>
> Github wikis, we never use
>
> Each of our books is hosted in a Github repo and each repo always comes
> with its own wiki using very simple markdown as everything else in Github
>
> You do not have content but only a snippet of code to offer ? No problem
> we have you covered there too create a gist for it , link it in the wiki
> and we will add it back to book. Gists even offer their own version control
> which means you can keep working and improving your code snippet for years
> to come without braking the workflow.
>
> Then its a question of copy pasting the contents to pillar and adding them
> in our books , or if you do not mind the extra work write it in pillar
> directly and add it to the relevant book
>
> All books can be added to CI and generate automagically html pages for
> direct access , we do this already with PBE 5.
>
> Our Pharo "wiki" is easier to use and far more powerful than anything
> Squeak ever had, no offence intended of course to the original creators and
> maintainers of Squeak wiki.
>
> Also github offers hosting of static webpages we could have a website
> hosted as github repo made with pillar that link to all wikis, gists and
> book artifacts. I can create this in an hour of work its not big deal. I
> would have done this myself but Stef already has added the books to
> Pharo.org which I find is more or less the same thing.
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:15 PM philippe.b...@highoctane.be <
> philippe.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I miss the Squeak wiki Pharo style.
>
> Phil
>
> Le 10 févr. 2017 19:06, "Esteban A. Maringolo"  a
> écrit :
>
> 2017-02-10 14:59 GMT-03:00 p...@highoctane.be :
> > Mass adoption and hyper reduced friction to get people on board.
> >
> > For me: I have 10+ slack teams in my slack client and there is really no
> > point in having more clients on the desktop.
>
> +1 to this. This is key.
>
> Maybe what we're missing is a simple wiki to collect the shared
> knowledge, recipes, and other stuff.
>
>
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[p...@highoctane.be]

Am still finding useful stuff on Squeak wiki, sorry.
The point of a Wiki is to capture discussions over a given topic and make
it grow into something more structured over time. Like original c2 wiki.

Phil

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Dimitris Chloupis 
wrote:

> If you miss it so much we have something much better
>
> Github wikis, we never use
>
> Each of our books is hosted in a Github repo and each repo always comes
> with its own wiki using very simple markdown as everything else in Github
>
> You do not have content but only a snippet of code to offer ? No problem
> we have you covered there too create a gist for it , link it in the wiki
> and we will add it back to book. Gists even offer their own version control
> which means you can keep working and improving your code snippet for years
> to come without braking the workflow.
>
> Then its a question of copy pasting the contents to pillar and adding them
> in our books , or if you do not mind the extra work write it in pillar
> directly and add it to the relevant book
>
> All books can be added to CI and generate automagically html pages for
> direct access , we do this already with PBE 5.
>
> Our Pharo "wiki" is easier to use and far more powerful than anything
> Squeak ever had, no offence intended of course to the original creators and
> maintainers of Squeak wiki.
>
> Also github offers hosting of static webpages we could have a website
> hosted as github repo made with pillar that link to all wikis, gists and
> book artifacts. I can create this in an hour of work its not big deal. I
> would have done this myself but Stef already has added the books to
> Pharo.org which I find is more or less the same thing.
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:15 PM philippe.b...@highoctane.be <
> philippe.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I miss the Squeak wiki Pharo style.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Le 10 févr. 2017 19:06, "Esteban A. Maringolo"  a
>> écrit :
>>
>> 2017-02-10 14:59 GMT-03:00 p...@highoctane.be :
>> > Mass adoption and hyper reduced friction to get people on board.
>> >
>> > For me: I have 10+ slack teams in my slack client and there is really no
>> > point in having more clients on the desktop.
>>
>> +1 to this. This is key.
>>
>> Maybe what we're missing is a simple wiki to collect the shared
>> knowledge, recipes, and other stuff.
>>
>>
>> Esteban A. Maringolo
>>
>>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Segmentation fault while installing Scale

[Andrey Tykhonov]

Hi all,

> and which VM do you use (there is a System report browser where you can
find the information.

I've somehow managed to get the information from System report browser:

Image
-
/home/demi/mess/2017/06/tmp2/Pharo.image
Pharo5.0
Latest update: #50768
Unnamed

Virtual Machine
---
/home/demi/mess/2017/06/tmp2/pharo-vm/pharo
CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit:
b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 +0200
By: Esteban Lorenzano  Jenkins build #589

Unix built on May  4 2016 11:54:41 Compiler: 4.6.3
VMMaker versionString https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit:
b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 +0200
By: Esteban Lorenzano  Jenkins build #589
CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid:
d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May  4 2016


I noticed that there are more items which could be selected (list in the
left bar, I mean System report browser), but I cannot get more info,
because pharo crashes each time I try to select all text from the all
items. May be it would be helpful (and I'll be able to) to get information
only from some particular item? But then, I need to know which exactly
items would be helpful.

Also, I'm attaching to this email log file after execution of the Pharo
with strace:

strace ./pharo-ui Pharo.image > pharo-ui-with-strace.log 2>&1

I hope it could shed more light on the issue.
execve("./pharo-ui", ["./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = 0
brk(NULL)   = 0x2518000
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7fac0ca2c000
access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
fstat(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=233419, ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 233419, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x7fac0c9f3000
close(3)= 0
open("/lib64/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
read(3, "\177ELF\2\1\1\3\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0>\0\1\0\0\0\260\10\2\0\0\0\0\0"..., 832) = 832
fstat(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1664840, ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 3771800, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x7fac0c471000
mprotect(0x7fac0c601000, 2093056, PROT_NONE) = 0
mmap(0x7fac0c80, 24576, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x18f000) = 0x7fac0c80
mmap(0x7fac0c806000, 15768, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7fac0c806000
close(3)= 0
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7fac0c9f2000
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7fac0c9f1000
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7fac0c9f
arch_prctl(ARCH_SET_FS, 0x7fac0c9f1700) = 0
mprotect(0x7fac0c80, 16384, PROT_READ) = 0
mprotect(0x606000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
mprotect(0x7fac0ca2d000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
munmap(0x7fac0c9f3000, 233419)  = 0
brk(NULL)   = 0x2518000
brk(0x2539000)  = 0x2539000
open("/usr/lib64/locale/locale-archive", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
fstat(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3811696, ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 3811696, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x7fac0c0ce000
close(3)= 0
execve("/home/demi/bin/bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/home/demi/usr/bin/bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/usr/bin/mh//bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/home/demi/bin/bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/home/demi/usr/bin/bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/usr/bin/mh//bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/usr/local/bin/bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/usr/bin/bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
execve("/bin/bash", ["bash", "./pharo-ui", "Pharo.image"], [/* 79 vars */]) = 0
brk(NULL)   = 0xe01000
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7fbe841d5000
access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK)   

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Dimitris Chloupis]

If you miss it so much we have something much better

Github wikis, we never use

Each of our books is hosted in a Github repo and each repo always comes
with its own wiki using very simple markdown as everything else in Github

You do not have content but only a snippet of code to offer ? No problem we
have you covered there too create a gist for it , link it in the wiki and
we will add it back to book. Gists even offer their own version control
which means you can keep working and improving your code snippet for years
to come without braking the workflow.

Then its a question of copy pasting the contents to pillar and adding them
in our books , or if you do not mind the extra work write it in pillar
directly and add it to the relevant book

All books can be added to CI and generate automagically html pages for
direct access , we do this already with PBE 5.

Our Pharo "wiki" is easier to use and far more powerful than anything
Squeak ever had, no offence intended of course to the original creators and
maintainers of Squeak wiki.

Also github offers hosting of static webpages we could have a website
hosted as github repo made with pillar that link to all wikis, gists and
book artifacts. I can create this in an hour of work its not big deal. I
would have done this myself but Stef already has added the books to
Pharo.org which I find is more or less the same thing.

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:15 PM philippe.b...@highoctane.be <
philippe.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I miss the Squeak wiki Pharo style.
>
> Phil
>
> Le 10 févr. 2017 19:06, "Esteban A. Maringolo"  a
> écrit :
>
> 2017-02-10 14:59 GMT-03:00 p...@highoctane.be :
> > Mass adoption and hyper reduced friction to get people on board.
> >
> > For me: I have 10+ slack teams in my slack client and there is really no
> > point in having more clients on the desktop.
>
> +1 to this. This is key.
>
> Maybe what we're missing is a simple wiki to collect the shared
> knowledge, recipes, and other stuff.
>
>
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[philippe.b...@highoctane.be]

I miss the Squeak wiki Pharo style.

Phil

Le 10 févr. 2017 19:06, "Esteban A. Maringolo"  a
écrit :

> 2017-02-10 14:59 GMT-03:00 p...@highoctane.be :
> > Mass adoption and hyper reduced friction to get people on board.
> >
> > For me: I have 10+ slack teams in my slack client and there is really no
> > point in having more clients on the desktop.
>
> +1 to this. This is key.
>
> Maybe what we're missing is a simple wiki to collect the shared
> knowledge, recipes, and other stuff.
>
>
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 60 need help on When-coding-in-the-debugger-I-get-an-error-sourceNodeExecuted

[stepharong]

super tx denis.

Stef


Fixed

2017-02-06 17:55 GMT+01:00 Stephane Ducasse :

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19661/When-coding-in-the-debugger-I-get-an-error-sourceNodeExecuted

Then I got a really strange problem when I was doing the counterexecise  
using the debugger.


create a Test Case
TestCase subclass: #CounterTest
   instanceVariableNames: ''
   classVariableNames: ''
   package: 'Counter'

- addtestValueAtCreation
   self assert: (Counter new count: 10) count equals: 10


- ok to define classes
- define count: in the class Counter
- count: anInteger   count := anInteger
- Declare instance variable count

NOW problemInstance of class did not understand count
- ok to define it
=> Instance of IRMethod do not understand sourceNodeExecuted

HAnging around instances

==
Then if I remove the Counter class and relaunch the tests I getInstance  
of anObsoleteCounter did not understand….






--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: [Pharo-dev] Segmentation fault while installing Scale

[Andrey Tykhonov]

Hello,

> Hi,

> We are looking at it with Santi. I see in the log that you're using an
ubuntu 12?

No, this is Gentoo Linux.

> I tried in a debian jessie and Santi in an ubuntu 14 and we could not
> reproduce it. Also the travis ci of scale uses ubuntu 12 and the
> installation works in there...

> Could you give more details about your system?

Sure, but I'm not sure which exactly information will be useful, so,
please clarify. For now, I'm sending you kernel version:

$ uname -a
Linux tp 4.9.6-gentoo #1 SMP Thu Jan 26 17:04:47 EET 2017 x86_64 Intel(R)
Core(TM) i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

> Thanks, Guille and Santi


Thank you!

--
Andriy

Re: [Pharo-dev] Segmentation fault while installing Scale

[Andrey Tykhonov]

Hi Clement,

> Hi Andrey,

> Thanks for providing both a way to reproduce and the log so we can have
you
> machine details. I see that the VM was compiled from build #589 on jenkins
> with VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 and you're on Linux using x86 back-end.

> Scale works only on Linux and when I try the wget command from Mac it does
> not work so I can't reproduce right now.

> I suggest that for now you try to use one of the newer VMs (from
> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur32/linux/ , you're
> using stable-20160504.zip, pick another one,

It seems, the latest VM is downloaded. It is downloaded by means of
the following command:

wget -O - get.pharo.org/50+vm | bash

Does it download old VM. Is this script outdated?

I suggest a more recent one
> than from May last year, either stable-20160623.zip
> or pharo-linux-i386itimer-201702061308-aa78f27.zip) and then use the
> "classic installation" to be able to use another VM than the one
downloaded
> by the wget script until someone can have a look into your problem.

Could you please help, where could I get Pharo.image file which is
required to execute pharo/pharo-ui? If I use existing one (with a VM
taken from either stable-20160623.zip or
pharo-linux-i386itimer-201702061308-aa78f27.zip), the VM crashes. So,
it seems, I need another Pharo.image as well, right?


With the best regards,
Andriy

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Actually your numbers are pretty low

#blendercoders indeed has 187 , but those are the actual C coders working
on the blender source (which I do not do), so its an equivalent of our
phraro-dev, the equivalent of pharo-users is #blender with 360 members and
the #blenderpython with 70 members which are people like me that work on
blender addons using python (all these are online users of course)

BUT the blender community is enormous, its theorised since its
impossible to know for sure that is around 1 million users, both
professional and hobbists. As a result of this the community is highly
fragmanted as all community of similar size are because they are impossible
to be contained.

In Discord I am on 2 blender servers one has 175 online users and the other
75 online users. As such I have little reason anymore to use IRC and
especially Slack (the only thing in Slack of interest to me is Pharo).

Also I am a game developer and Discord has become the default online chat
tool for game developers and gamers aline the same way Slack has become the
default online chat tool for developers.

Unreal server I am using on Discord has over 1200 users online , countless
dedicate channels and a great deal of Unreal game developers use Blender so
for me Discord by far the best choice for what I am doing.

Also a problem with IRC is that you see people that are online but they
never say a word so they are online but always AFK. In Discord if you are
afk there is a yellow icon to indicate that , from what I am seeing people
participating in Discord tend to be far more active than people
participating in IRC.

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 6:46 PM Hilaire  wrote:

> I just saw Blender developers seems to use IRC (#blendercoders @
> irc.freenode.net), 187 users. Ruby too at #ruby 917 users
>
> Le 10/02/2017 à 12:29, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
> > e) for personal reason all my favorite software (Blender, Unreal
> > etc) is using it
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

2017-02-10 14:59 GMT-03:00 p...@highoctane.be :
> Mass adoption and hyper reduced friction to get people on board.
>
> For me: I have 10+ slack teams in my slack client and there is really no
> point in having more clients on the desktop.

+1 to this. This is key.

Maybe what we're missing is a simple wiki to collect the shared
knowledge, recipes, and other stuff.


Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[p...@highoctane.be]

Mass adoption and hyper reduced friction to get people on board.

For me: I have 10+ slack teams in my slack client and there is really no
point in having more clients on the desktop.

Phil

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Hilaire  wrote:

> Please excuse my ignorance but what are the advantages of Slack over
> other instant messaging system like IRC or Jabber?
>
> Hilaire
>
> Le 10/02/2017 à 10:27, Stephan Eggermont a écrit :
> > The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time
> > about Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share
> > pictures and snippets. As a result a large part of the communication
> about
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Hilaire]

I just saw Blender developers seems to use IRC (#blendercoders @
irc.freenode.net), 187 users. Ruby too at #ruby 917 users

Le 10/02/2017 à 12:29, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
> e) for personal reason all my favorite software (Blender, Unreal
> etc) is using it

-- 
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Hilaire]

Please excuse my ignorance but what are the advantages of Slack over
other instant messaging system like IRC or Jabber?

Hilaire

Le 10/02/2017 à 10:27, Stephan Eggermont a écrit :
> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time
> about Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share
> pictures and snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about

-- 
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[François Stephany]

There is a special price for non-profits organization:

> The Slack for Nonprofits program offers eligible organizations a *free
upgrade* to our Standard plan for teams of up to 250 members. For eligible
teams above that size, we offer an 85% discount on the Standard plan.

With 322 users it means that we still have to pay...

See https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833-Slack-for-Nonprofits
for more information.


On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 1:18 PM, denker  wrote:

>
> >
> >> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as
> really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list
> than what was before just in mailing list.
> >> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing
> model is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a
> solution for that.
> >
> > Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?
> >
> It is per active member… which is defined as “has logged in the last 14
> days”. We have 322 members. No idea how many
> are active according to that definition.
>
> Fot 322 it would be: $8 per user per month. Which means $2576 per month or
> $25772 per year (taking the special yearly price into account).
>
> Marcus
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[denker]

> 
>> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as 
>> really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list 
>> than what was before just in mailing list.
>> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model 
>> is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for 
>> that.
> 
> Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?
> 
It is per active member… which is defined as “has logged in the last 14 days”. 
We have 322 members. No idea how many
are active according to that definition.

Fot 322 it would be: $8 per user per month. Which means $2576 per month or 
$25772 per year (taking the special yearly price into account).

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Dimitris Chloupis]

I have been pushing for Discord because

a) There is no need to host and maintain as Esteban said
b) There a ton of communities already using it and its by far the second
most mature chat client after Slack
c) It has a very powerful Python API yes I know I know its no Pharo
but still it makes it very easy to make bots that automate a lot of staff.
I am using a bot that fetches RSS feeds (Although not sure how well this is
working) connects to the reddit forum and of course fetches git commits
d) The team listens to its users
e) for personal reason all my favorite software (Blender, Unreal etc)
is using it

I am also making my own bot . I  could try to add a way for the bot to
connect the mailing list with the Discord channel turn the mailing lists
discussions to Discord discussions and vice versa but I have not done this
before so no promises. I do have find a website that turns pretty much
anything to webhooks which is what Discord uses (probably Slack too)

https://ifttt.com/discover

I could do the same with Slack , meaning to send Slack messages to Discord
and Discord to Slack, I think I found one bot that already does this.

In short we can unite everything under one roof and let people keep using
whatever people feel comfortable with (Slack, mailing lists, world.st
forum, reddit , google hangouts , youtube , github and anything with
webhooks or some form of web API)

Also the Bot could store its own log even in the unlikely scenario of a
nuclear explosion in Discord servers we wont lose our valuable data. Though
I think I saw somewhere that Discord allows to backup and export the data
so that may be proven unnecessary.

On the other hand I will have to find a way to host my bot , but that is
not a big deal , the bot is a simple python application and there are a ton
of websites which offer hosting for python applications for free.

Its getting there but will need time.

Also my library Atlas can be used to access the APIs of all these chat
software, Slack and Discord included, because Atlas allows you to use
python libraries from inside Pharo. So its possible to have tools in the
image for those of you that you love never having to leave the image that
take advantage of these technologies. I wont be doing this though because
a) porting APIs is a project by itself b) most of the code I find is python
code and that makes it an easy copy paste approach (the vast majority of it
is GPL or MIT licensed)

[Pharo-dev] GSOC Pharo application done

[Serge Stinckwich]

Dear all,

thanks to the efforts of Jigyasa Grover,  Yuriy Tymchuk and Alexandre
Bergel, , we were able to have a GSOC 2017 application for the Pharo
Consortium. This is only the first phase. If we are selected by
Google, they will give some slots for students.

We have a list of projects for GSOC here : http://gsoc.pharo.org/

If you have more ideas, please send them to me or send a PR on :
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-project-proposals/blob/master/Topics.st

Try to describe your project idea with 10-15 lines maximum.
The ideas is not too much projects proposals but to find important
projects for the Pharo community (i.e that will have some impact for
the community) with the support of the appropriate mentors.

I would like to have maximum 2-3 projects for each mentors.

Thank you.
Cheers,
-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[p...@highoctane.be]

I am frustated by this too and indeed we need a way to keep the messages.

I am about done with my wrapping of LibStrophe in Pharo with , which
provides a XMPP/Jabber client to Pharo.

So, if someone can activate the XMPP gateway on our Slack instance, we will
have a way to archive the contents (and possibly post a kind of digest into
a mailing list).

https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/201727913-Connect-to-Slack-over-IRC-and-XMPP

Phil

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

>
> > On 10 Feb 2017, at 11:28, Serge Stinckwich 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
> wrote:
> >> Hi Stephan,
> >>
> >>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time
> about Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share
> pictures and snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about
> design and how to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As
> we're using the free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial
> version, we have no long-time storage of the design discussions. This
> contrasts with our mailing lists, that have a long-term archive. There was
> some discussion about this, and I'm not aware of that resulting in an
> accessible, easy to access archive. Also, we have not succeeded in
> summarizing design discussions from slack to the mailing lists. The
> resulting gap in design information forms an enormous long-term risk for
> our community. Without the design discussions it is much more difficult to
> later understand why decisions were taken. We cannot afford to let this
> short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community history, and thereby
> Pharo. Let us fix this.
> >
> > Yes I agree with your concerns.
> >
> >> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as
> really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list
> than what was before just in mailing list.
> >> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing
> model is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a
> solution for that.
> >
> > Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?
>
> yes it is.
> Is just not prepared for open source communities like ours.
>
> >
> >> Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a
> substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of
> work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function
> (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs
> everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but
> gists seems like a good idea).
> >>
> >> With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions
> (it remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than
> mails, but well… we need to try)
> >
> > and move all the community on discord ?
>
> this is what I would like to propose, because...
>
> > Or use an open-source slack
>
> the problem with this is that we have to host it… and then is more
> problems for maintenance, etc.
>
> Esteban
>
> > like : https://about.mattermost.com/
> > and host our own chat server.
> >
> > --
> > Serge Stinckwich
> > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
> > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
> > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
> >
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

[Serge Stinckwich]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
> On 09/02/17 17:05, Serge Stinckwich wrote:
>>
>> but all the projects are coming from RMOD team, but having all the
>> projects proposal coming from the same place might be perceived
>> negatively from Google. Can we add more projects from previous gsoc
>> from other people also ?
>
>
> My two earlier proposals are fine, and already on the site.

Can you reduce the size of the "Distributed Issue Tracker" subject
because there is too much details compared to other subjects.

Thank you.
-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 11:28, Serge Stinckwich  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  
> wrote:
>> Hi Stephan,
>> 
>>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about 
>>> Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and 
>>> snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and 
>>> how to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using 
>>> the free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have 
>>> no long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our 
>>> mailing lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion 
>>> about this, and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to 
>>> access archive. Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design 
>>> discussions from slack to the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design 
>>> information forms an enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the 
>>> design discussions it is much more difficult to later understand why 
>>> decisions were taken. We cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use 
>>> destroy Pharo's community history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this.
> 
> Yes I agree with your concerns.
> 
>> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as 
>> really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list 
>> than what was before just in mailing list.
>> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model 
>> is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for 
>> that.
> 
> Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?

yes it is. 
Is just not prepared for open source communities like ours.

> 
>> Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a 
>> substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of 
>> work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function 
>> (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs 
>> everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but 
>> gists seems like a good idea).
>> 
>> With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it 
>> remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, 
>> but well… we need to try)
> 
> and move all the community on discord ?

this is what I would like to propose, because...

> Or use an open-source slack

the problem with this is that we have to host it… and then is more problems for 
maintenance, etc.

Esteban

> like : https://about.mattermost.com/
> and host our own chat server.
> 
> -- 
> Serge Stinckwich
> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
> 

[Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core]

[GitHub]

  Branch: refs/tags/60385
  Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

[Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] 6f7d16: 60385

[GitHub]

  Branch: refs/heads/6.0
  Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core
  Commit: 6f7d16ed3df7bcc4a19e70a4bd785be161281e52
  
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/6f7d16ed3df7bcc4a19e70a4bd785be161281e52
  Author: Jenkins Build Server 
  Date:   2017-02-10 (Fri, 10 Feb 2017)

  Changed paths:
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Serge Stinckwich]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> Hi Stephan,
>
>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>>
>> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about 
>> Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and 
>> snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and how 
>> to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using the 
>> free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have no 
>> long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our mailing 
>> lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, 
>> and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access 
>> archive. Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from 
>> slack to the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an 
>> enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the design discussions it 
>> is much more difficult to later understand why decisions were taken. We 
>> cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community 
>> history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this.

Yes I agree with your concerns.

> I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as really 
> worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list than 
> what was before just in mailing list.
> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model 
> is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for 
> that.

Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ?

> Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a 
> substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of 
> work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function 
> (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs 
> everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but 
> gists seems like a good idea).
>
> With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it 
> remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, 
> but well… we need to try)

and move all the community on discord ? Or use an open-source slack
like : https://about.mattermost.com/
and host our own chat server.

-- 
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Hi Stephan, 

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
> 
> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about 
> Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and 
> snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and how 
> to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using the 
> free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have no 
> long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our mailing 
> lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, 
> and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access archive. 
> Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from slack to 
> the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an enormous 
> long-term risk for our community. Without the design discussions it is much 
> more difficult to later understand why decisions were taken. We cannot afford 
> to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community history, and 
> thereby Pharo. Let us fix this.

I share many of what you say… but in the other point of view, Slack as really 
worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list than what 
was before just in mailing list. 
But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model is 
impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for that. 

Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a 
substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of work 
we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function (and they 
do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs everything that 
happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but gists seems like a 
good idea). 

With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it 
remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, 
but well… we need to try)

Esteban

> 
> Stephan
> 
> 

[Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

[Stephan Eggermont]

The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time 
about Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share 
pictures and snippets. As a result a large part of the communication 
about design and how to do things has moved from the mailing lists to 
Slack. As we're using the free version, and cannot afford to use the 
commercial version, we have no long-time storage of the design 
discussions. This contrasts with our mailing lists, that have a 
long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, and I'm not 
aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access archive. Also, 
we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from slack to 
the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an 
enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the design 
discussions it is much more difficult to later understand why decisions 
were taken. We cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy 
Pharo's community history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this.


Stephan