Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras]

+1

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as
> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>
> If so, why ?
>
> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play
> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different
> things.
>
> Sven
>
>
>


-- 
Bernardo E.C.

Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America.

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Andrei Chis]

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as
> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>
> If so, why ?
>
> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play
> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different
> things.
>


Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the
entire content of the workspace.

To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the
context menu, or use CMD+o.
Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
opening tools.

The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not
only on the selection.
Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have
keybindings

Does this seem ok to you?


Cheers,
Andrei


>
> Sven
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Damien Cassou]

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Andrei Chis  wrote:
> Does this seem ok to you?


makes perfect sense to me. Toolbar is for global stuff, context menu
for contextual stuff.

-- 
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as 'play 
> all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
> 
> If so, why ?
> 
> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play it'. 
> A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different things.
> 
> 
> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the 
> entire content of the workspace.
> 
> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the 
> context menu, or use CMD+o.
> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from opening 
> tools.
> 
> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the toolbar 
> only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not only on 
> the selection.
> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have 
> keybindings
> 
> Does this seem ok to you?

Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
OK, that works for me.

Thanks. 

> Cheers,
> Andrei
>  
> 
> Sven
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Esteban Lorenzano]

and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?

Esteban

> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as 
>> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>> 
>> If so, why ?
>> 
>> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play it'. 
>> A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different 
>> things.
>> 
>> 
>> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the 
>> entire content of the workspace.
>> 
>> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the 
>> context menu, or use CMD+o.
>> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from 
>> opening tools.
>> 
>> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the 
>> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not 
>> only on the selection.
>> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have 
>> keybindings
>> 
>> Does this seem ok to you?
> 
> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
> OK, that works for me.
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
>> Cheers,
>> Andrei
>> 
>> 
>> Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Andrei Chis]

If we want to keep cmd+o for opening the tools then it make sense to use
cmd+e.
Just it could be a little confusing because cmd+e was already user before
to open the explorer.

We wanted a new shortcut to avoid this confusion. But I am not against
using cmd+e

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

> and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
>
> Esteban
>
>
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>
>
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
> wrote:
> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as
> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>
> If so, why ?
>
> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play
> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different
> things.
>
>
> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the
> entire content of the workspace.
>
> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from
> the context menu, or use CMD+o.
> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
> opening tools.
>
> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not
> only on the selection.
> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have
> keybindings
>
> Does this seem ok to you?
>
>
> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
> OK, that works for me.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrei
>
>
> Sven
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Esteban Lorenzano]

so far, we want to keep cmd+o to open tools. 

then what about cmd+g for “cmd+go” (and as Guille says, an internal joke for 
“cmd+gDoit”) :P

Esteban 

> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:15, Andrei Chis  wrote:
> 
> If we want to keep cmd+o for opening the tools then it make sense to use 
> cmd+e.
> Just it could be a little confusing because cmd+e was already user before to 
> open the explorer.
> 
> We wanted a new shortcut to avoid this confusion. But I am not against using 
> cmd+e
> 
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Esteban Lorenzano  > wrote:
> and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
> 
> Esteban
> 
> 
>> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis > > wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe >> > wrote:
>>> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as 
>>> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>>> 
>>> If so, why ?
>>> 
>>> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play 
>>> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different 
>>> things.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the 
>>> entire content of the workspace.
>>> 
>>> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the 
>>> context menu, or use CMD+o.
>>> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from 
>>> opening tools.
>>> 
>>> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the 
>>> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not 
>>> only on the selection.
>>> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have 
>>> keybindings
>>> 
>>> Does this seem ok to you?
>> 
>> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
>> OK, that works for me.
>> 
>> Thanks. 
>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrei
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sven
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Tudor Girba]

Cmd+g sounds like fun :).

The other thing could be to have cmd+i as a replacement for cmd+o when you
are in the inspector. When outside, Cmd+i would spawn an inspector window
if the surrounding browser does not support in-place inspection (like the
playground).

To force inspect in a new window we could use Cmd+Shift+i and this would be
uniformly applied everywhere.

What do you think?

Cheers,
Doru

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

> so far, we want to keep cmd+o to open tools.
>
> then what about cmd+g for “cmd+go” (and as Guille says, an internal joke
> for “cmd+gDoit”) :P
>
> Esteban
>
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:15, Andrei Chis  wrote:
>
> If we want to keep cmd+o for opening the tools then it make sense to use
> cmd+e.
> Just it could be a little confusing because cmd+e was already user before
> to open the explorer.
>
> We wanted a new shortcut to avoid this confusion. But I am not against
> using cmd+e
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
> wrote:
>
>> and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
>>
>> Esteban
>>
>>
>> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
>> wrote:
>> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as
>> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>>
>> If so, why ?
>>
>> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play
>> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different
>> things.
>>
>>
>> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the
>> entire content of the workspace.
>>
>> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from
>> the context menu, or use CMD+o.
>> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
>> opening tools.
>>
>> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
>> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not
>> only on the selection.
>> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have
>> keybindings
>>
>> Does this seem ok to you?
>>
>>
>> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
>> OK, that works for me.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrei
>>
>>
>> Sven
>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Tudor Girba]

Hi Sven,

Thanks a lot for these questions. Please keep them coming. These first
impressions are really important because we have the opportunity to evolve.

@Everyone: if you see me or Andrei providing arguments is not to say that
we want to be right, but simply to show what we took into consideration up
to this point. Please keep challenging what you see.

Cheers,
Doru



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

>
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
> wrote:
> > Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as
> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
> >
> > If so, why ?
> >
> > I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play
> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different
> things.
> >
> >
> > Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates
> the entire content of the workspace.
> >
> > To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from
> the context menu, or use CMD+o.
> > Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
> opening tools.
> >
> > The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not
> only on the selection.
> > Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have
> keybindings
> >
> > Does this seem ok to you?
>
> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
> OK, that works for me.
>
> Thanks.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Andrei
> >
> >
> > Sven
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Christophe Demarey]

Le 1 oct. 2014 à 16:55, Tudor Girba a écrit :

> Cmd+g sounds like fun :).
> 
> The other thing could be to have cmd+i as a replacement for cmd+o when you 
> are in the inspector. When outside, Cmd+i would spawn an inspector window if 
> the surrounding browser does not support in-place inspection (like the 
> playground).
> 
> To force inspect in a new window we could use Cmd+Shift+i and this would be 
> uniformly applied everywhere.
> 
> What do you think?

Yes, I like it. no need of a new shortcut. It was the first thing I tried in 
the Playground before seeing   the arrow in the menu.

Christophe.

smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Alexandre Bergel]

cmd+e does not look like to be more explicit to me. Something that I find a 
little bit confusing, is “play” vs “open”. The button is a play button. But in 
the menu, it says “open”. Why not being consistent with “play”?

Alexandre


On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:

> and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
> 
> Esteban
> 
>> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>>> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as 
>>> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>>> 
>>> If so, why ?
>>> 
>>> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play 
>>> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different 
>>> things.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the 
>>> entire content of the workspace.
>>> 
>>> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the 
>>> context menu, or use CMD+o.
>>> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from 
>>> opening tools.
>>> 
>>> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the 
>>> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not 
>>> only on the selection.
>>> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have 
>>> keybindings
>>> 
>>> Does this seem ok to you?
>> 
>> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
>> OK, that works for me.
>> 
>> Thanks. 
>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrei
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sven
> 

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Process can always be enhanced, of course. But in fact what we did now was just 
to formalise what was already happening (with Zinc, for example). 
so we can continue enhancing it from here. 

about your fears: 
- all sub-projects will be (we still need to move some there) under “Pharo” 
umbrella, so once you have access to one you have access to all. 
- It will slowdown some stuff, but it will promote better decoupling of system 
components and with time, it will enhance (and speed) the work a lot. 
- most of the changes we made are just a few method changes that are almost all 
the time in just one package. The potential problem is just in the rest… we 
will reduce the emergence of these in the process of extracting subprojects 
from what now is a complicated, monolithic system. The process of decoupling, 
btw, is an ongoing process from years now, and it still will take some more 
years. It will not be finished in Pharo4 and probably not on Pharo6 either… 
what we did now is to create the required infrastructure support for allow this 
decoupling.
- This way is different to what we have been doing until now, I know, and it 
will need some adjustment in the way we contribute. But is a lot better! 

cheers, 
Esteban

ps: Side note, about the issue linked: it was not going to happen that we 
change something through a slice, even without this new infrastructure, because 
is an external managed project (same as Zinc), and it will require a commit in 
appropriate repository anyway. 


> On 01 Oct 2014, at 19:03, Alexandre Bergel  wrote:
> 
> And confusing as one can see here:  https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14137
> 
> Will we end up in "I need access to repo", "please add me as contributor to" 
> hell and slow down the integration process as one has to wait until the 
> responsible person has time (and is willing to accept the change)? 
> 
> I agree with the goal but not the way it is now presented to the community!
> 
> For such an important change why not propose FIRST a plan how contribution 
> process
> will change, discussing how it could be handled best or supported by tools. 
> Instead you just change/enforce it and now discussion starts afterwards...
> 
> Bye
> T.
> 
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 01. Oktober 2014 um 18:20 Uhr
>> Von: "Sebastian Sastre" 
>> An: "Pharo Development List" 
>> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] IMPORTANT: Contributing to "Configurated" 
>> sub-projects
>> 
>> sounds great!
>> 
>> sebastian
>> 
>> o/
>> 
>>> On 01/10/2014, at 12:41, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, 
>>> 
>>> As you might or might not seen, we are moving Pharo into a different 
>>> architecture: From a monolitic "one-image-is-all", we are (very slowly) 
>>> going into an small kernel and a set of sub-projects who will populate the 
>>> image and provide all required features. 
>>> In general, the idea is that the final state, what we call "Pharo" will 
>>> stay as an unity with all the tools/frameworks/libraries you already know 
>>> and love, but the building process will be completely different, allowing 
>>> us to better manage the release process and allowing users to build their 
>>> own versions of specific pharos (I can imagine, for example, morphic-less 
>>> pharos used in server applications, etc.).
>>> 
>>> Well... this direction we are taking just made his first change, that can 
>>> annoy a bit the community, until we find a new equillibrium :)
>>> Until now, most changes, bugfixes, etc. were contributed using old know 
>>> SLICES, who make a good job in this monilitic approach. 
>>> And starting now, there are certain subprojects that cannot be managed like 
>>> that anymore and has to be managed through regular contributions to their 
>>> repositories. Then, responsible guys from those projects will submit an 
>>> "Integration request" (something like a pull request), when they consider 
>>> is necesary an update to Pharo. 
>>> 
>>> Those projects are, for now: 
>>> 
>>> - Zinc (responsible is Sven)
>>> - GTools (responsibles are Doru and Andrei)
>>> - OSWindow (responsible is Igor)
>>> 
>>> We hope, with time, to move all non-kernel code into their respective 
>>> sub-projects, all with their responsibles, but for now, we started with 
>>> this ones :)
>>> 
>>> (I hope this mail is understandable... I feel I'm being super confusing :P)
>>> 
>>> cheers,
>>> Esteban
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[stepharo]

Open is not a good name.
I want to execute something not opening it.
I would never think that open is executing an expression and inspecting 
the result.


Stef

On 1/10/14 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as 'play 
all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?

If so, why ?

I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play it'. A 
workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different things.


Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the 
entire content of the workspace.

To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the 
context menu, or use CMD+o.
Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from opening 
tools.

The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the toolbar 
only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not only on the 
selection.
Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have 
keybindings

Does this seem ok to you?

Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
OK, that works for me.

Thanks.


Cheers,
Andrei
  


Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[stepharo]

On 1/10/14 16:06, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?


+ 1 and rename open to execute!




Esteban

On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe > wrote:



On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis > wrote:





On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe > wrote:
Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act 
as 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?


If so, why ?

I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 
'play it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots 
of different things.



Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top 
evaluates the entire content of the workspace.


To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' 
from the context menu, or use CMD+o.
Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts 
from opening tools.


The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in 
the toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire 
presentations and not only on the selection.
Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should 
have keybindings


Does this seem ok to you?


Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu 
action.

OK, that works for me.

Thanks.


Cheers,
Andrei


Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[stepharo]

On 1/10/14 16:55, Tudor Girba wrote:

Cmd+g sounds like fun :).

The other thing could be to have cmd+i as a replacement for cmd+o when 
you are in the inspector. When outside, Cmd+i would spawn an inspector 
window if the surrounding browser does not support in-place inspection 
(like the playground).


To force inspect in a new window we could use Cmd+Shift+i and this 
would be uniformly applied everywhere.


What do you think?

I'm lost.



Cheers,
Doru

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Esteban Lorenzano > wrote:


so far, we want to keep cmd+o to open tools.

then what about cmd+g for “cmd+go” (and as Guille says, an
internal joke for “cmd+gDoit”) :P

Esteban


On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:15, Andrei Chis mailto:chisvasileand...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If we want to keep cmd+o for opening the tools then it make sense
to use cmd+e.
Just it could be a little confusing because cmd+e was already
user before to open the explorer.

We wanted a new shortcut to avoid this confusion. But I am not
against using cmd+e

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Esteban Lorenzano
mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?

Esteban



On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe
mailto:s...@stfx.eu>> wrote:


On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis
mailto:chisvasileand...@gmail.com>> wrote:




On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe
mailto:s...@stfx.eu>> wrote:
Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play
button act as 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace
contents) ?

If so, why ?

I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some
expression and 'play it'. A workspace/playground is like a
notebook containing lots of different things.


Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top
evaluates the entire content of the workspace.

To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose
'Open' from the context menu, or use CMD+o.
Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global
shortcuts from opening tools.

The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to
have in the toolbar only global actions that apply on the
entire presentations and not only on the selection.
Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu
and should have keybindings

Does this seem ok to you?


Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect
it menu action.
OK, that works for me.

Thanks.


Cheers,
Andrei


Sven








--
www.tudorgirba.com 

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[stepharo]

Alex

play looks like flash or music not like executing.

We all complain that smalltalk is weak and that people can make silly 
statements like
Java is compiled and Smalltalk intepreted (I read that in the 
lecture)!!!

But this is our fault.

In my book you will not see evaluating an expresssion, I execute it.
So please we should not use silly names and more important we should not 
think that is is ok because

we should think about new people.

so for me cmd-e is good that we can map
cmd-i for inspector
cmd-I for explorer.

Simple and straightforward.

Stef


On 1/10/14 19:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

cmd+e does not look like to be more explicit to me. Something that I find a 
little bit confusing, is “play” vs “open”. The button is a play button. But in 
the menu, it says “open”. Why not being consistent with “play”?

Alexandre


On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:


and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?

Esteban


On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:


On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as 'play 
all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?

If so, why ?

I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play it'. A 
workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different things.


Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the 
entire content of the workspace.

To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the 
context menu, or use CMD+o.
Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from opening 
tools.

The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the toolbar 
only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not only on the 
selection.
Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have 
keybindings

Does this seem ok to you?

Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
OK, that works for me.

Thanks.


Cheers,
Andrei


Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Tudor Girba]

Ok, I will try to explain again:

Cmd+i means inspect. When I am in a class browser, it means that the
inspector windows opens up. But, when I am in the inspector, it can simply
mean open a new pane to the right.

Then if you explicitly want to open a window you use an imperative Inspect
that we can map on Cmd+Shift+i (like we did for the explorer before).

I think this would fit, but it would be a bit difficult to implement.

Is it clearer? What do you think?

Cheers,
Doru



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:09 PM, stepharo  wrote:

>
> On 1/10/14 16:55, Tudor Girba wrote:
>
> Cmd+g sounds like fun :).
>
>  The other thing could be to have cmd+i as a replacement for cmd+o when
> you are in the inspector. When outside, Cmd+i would spawn an inspector
> window if the surrounding browser does not support in-place inspection
> (like the playground).
>
>  To force inspect in a new window we could use Cmd+Shift+i and this would
> be uniformly applied everywhere.
>
>  What do you think?
>
> I'm lost.
>
>
>
>  Cheers,
> Doru
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
> wrote:
>
>>  so far, we want to keep cmd+o to open tools.
>>
>>  then what about cmd+g for “cmd+go” (and as Guille says, an internal joke
>> for “cmd+gDoit”) :P
>>
>>  Esteban
>>
>>  On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:15, Andrei Chis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  If we want to keep cmd+o for opening the tools then it make sense to
>> use cmd+e.
>> Just it could be a little confusing because cmd+e was already user before
>> to open the explorer.
>>
>>  We wanted a new shortcut to avoid this confusion. But I am not against
>> using cmd+e
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
>>>
>>>  Esteban
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
>>> wrote:
>>> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as
>>> 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>>>
>>> If so, why ?
>>>
>>> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play
>>> it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different
>>> things.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates
>>> the entire content of the workspace.
>>>
>>> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from
>>> the context menu, or use CMD+o.
>>> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
>>> opening tools.
>>>
>>> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
>>> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not
>>> only on the selection.
>>> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have
>>> keybindings
>>>
>>> Does this seem ok to you?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu
>>> action.
>>> OK, that works for me.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>> Sven
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
>  "Every thing has its own flow"
>
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Tudor Girba]

What is explorer?

Doru

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:12 PM, stepharo  wrote:

> Alex
>
> play looks like flash or music not like executing.
>
> We all complain that smalltalk is weak and that people can make silly
> statements like
> Java is compiled and Smalltalk intepreted (I read that in the
> lecture)!!!
> But this is our fault.
>
> In my book you will not see evaluating an expresssion, I execute it.
> So please we should not use silly names and more important we should not
> think that is is ok because
> we should think about new people.
>
> so for me cmd-e is good that we can map
> cmd-i for inspector
> cmd-I for explorer.
>
> Simple and straightforward.
>
> Stef
>
>
>
> On 1/10/14 19:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>> cmd+e does not look like to be more explicit to me. Something that I find
>> a little bit confusing, is “play” vs “open”. The button is a play button.
>> But in the menu, it says “open”. Why not being consistent with “play”?
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
>>>
>>> Esteban
>>>
>>>  On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:


 On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis 
 wrote:


> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
> wrote:
> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act
> as 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>
> If so, why ?
>
> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and
> 'play it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of
> different things.
>
>
> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates
> the entire content of the workspace.
>
> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open'
> from the context menu, or use CMD+o.
> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
> opening tools.
>
> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not
> only on the selection.
> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should
> have keybindings
>
> Does this seem ok to you?
>
 Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu
 action.
 OK, that works for me.

 Thanks.

  Cheers,
> Andrei
>
>
> Sven
>

>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Tudor Girba]

The play symbol is also used for run. That is why we used that icon. But,
we can change it. Ideas?

Btw, all the icons used in GT and Moose are drawn by me and licensed under
CC Attribution:
https://github.com/girba/mooseart

Cheers,
Doru



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:12 PM, stepharo  wrote:

> Alex
>
> play looks like flash or music not like executing.
>
> We all complain that smalltalk is weak and that people can make silly
> statements like
> Java is compiled and Smalltalk intepreted (I read that in the
> lecture)!!!
> But this is our fault.
>
> In my book you will not see evaluating an expresssion, I execute it.
> So please we should not use silly names and more important we should not
> think that is is ok because
> we should think about new people.
>
> so for me cmd-e is good that we can map
> cmd-i for inspector
> cmd-I for explorer.
>
> Simple and straightforward.
>
> Stef
>
>
>
> On 1/10/14 19:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>> cmd+e does not look like to be more explicit to me. Something that I find
>> a little bit confusing, is “play” vs “open”. The button is a play button.
>> But in the menu, it says “open”. Why not being consistent with “play”?
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
>>>
>>> Esteban
>>>
>>>  On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:


 On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis 
 wrote:


> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
> wrote:
> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act
> as 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>
> If so, why ?
>
> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and
> 'play it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of
> different things.
>
>
> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates
> the entire content of the workspace.
>
> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open'
> from the context menu, or use CMD+o.
> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
> opening tools.
>
> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not
> only on the selection.
> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should
> have keybindings
>
> Does this seem ok to you?
>
 Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu
 action.
 OK, that works for me.

 Thanks.

  Cheers,
> Andrei
>
>
> Sven
>

>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Esteban Lorenzano]

it was the tree-shaped inspector, it does not have sense anymore with the new 
inspector (since everything is rolled into one). 

> On 01 Oct 2014, at 22:33, Tudor Girba  wrote:
> 
> What is explorer?
> 
> Doru
> 
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:12 PM, stepharo  > wrote:
> Alex
> 
> play looks like flash or music not like executing.
> 
> We all complain that smalltalk is weak and that people can make silly 
> statements like
> Java is compiled and Smalltalk intepreted (I read that in the lecture)!!!
> But this is our fault.
> 
> In my book you will not see evaluating an expresssion, I execute it.
> So please we should not use silly names and more important we should not 
> think that is is ok because
> we should think about new people.
> 
> so for me cmd-e is good that we can map
> cmd-i for inspector
> cmd-I for explorer.
> 
> Simple and straightforward.
> 
> Stef
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/10/14 19:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
> cmd+e does not look like to be more explicit to me. Something that I find a 
> little bit confusing, is “play” vs “open”. The button is a play button. But 
> in the menu, it says “open”. Why not being consistent with “play”?
> 
> Alexandre
> 
> 
> On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  > wrote:
> 
> and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?
> 
> Esteban
> 
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  > wrote:
> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act as 'play 
> all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
> 
> If so, why ?
> 
> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and 'play it'. 
> A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of different things.
> 
> 
> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates the 
> entire content of the workspace.
> 
> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open' from the 
> context menu, or use CMD+o.
> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from opening 
> tools.
> 
> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the toolbar 
> only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and not only on 
> the selection.
> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should have 
> keybindings
> 
> Does this seem ok to you?
> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu action.
> OK, that works for me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andrei
> 
> 
> Sven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> www.tudorgirba.com 
> 
> "Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground Play Button Semantics

[Tudor Girba]

I know what it was :). I was asking what would the goal be of an explorer
now.

Doru

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

> it was the tree-shaped inspector, it does not have sense anymore with the
> new inspector (since everything is rolled into one).
>
>
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 22:33, Tudor Girba  wrote:
>
> What is explorer?
>
> Doru
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:12 PM, stepharo  wrote:
>
>> Alex
>>
>> play looks like flash or music not like executing.
>>
>> We all complain that smalltalk is weak and that people can make silly
>> statements like
>> Java is compiled and Smalltalk intepreted (I read that in the
>> lecture)!!!
>> But this is our fault.
>>
>> In my book you will not see evaluating an expresssion, I execute it.
>> So please we should not use silly names and more important we should not
>> think that is is ok because
>> we should think about new people.
>>
>> so for me cmd-e is good that we can map
>> cmd-i for inspector
>> cmd-I for explorer.
>>
>> Simple and straightforward.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/10/14 19:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>
>>> cmd+e does not look like to be more explicit to me. Something that I
>>> find a little bit confusing, is “play” vs “open”. The button is a play
>>> button. But in the menu, it says “open”. Why not being consistent with
>>> “play”?
>>>
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  and btw, what about remap cmd+o to cmd+e (like “execute”) ?

 Esteban

  On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
>
>
> On 01 Oct 2014, at 16:00, Andrei Chis 
> wrote:
>
>
>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe 
>> wrote:
>> Was it a conscious decision to make the GTPlayground Play button act
>> as 'play all' (evaluate the whole workspace contents) ?
>>
>> If so, why ?
>>
>> I find it quite limiting that I cannot select some expression and
>> 'play it'. A workspace/playground is like a notebook containing lots of
>> different things.
>>
>>
>> Yes,  it is like this by design. The Play button at the top evaluates
>> the entire content of the workspace.
>>
>> To evaluate just an expression you can select it and choose 'Open'
>> from the context menu, or use CMD+o.
>> Just right now CMD+o is still broken due to the global shortcuts from
>> opening tools.
>>
>> The Play button at the top works like that as we tried to have in the
>> toolbar only global actions that apply on the entire presentations and 
>> not
>> only on the selection.
>> Those that apply on the selection go in the context menu and should
>> have keybindings
>>
>> Does this seem ok to you?
>>
> Ah, I thought the open menu action worked like the inspect it menu
> action.
> OK, that works for me.
>
> Thanks.
>
>  Cheers,
>> Andrei
>>
>>
>> Sven
>>
>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
>
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"