Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] font installer free type fonts
Hi doru How do you use SourceCodeProSemibold for example StandardFonts codeFont: (LogicalFont familyName: 'Source Code Pro' pointSize: 10). Because there is no family name for semi bold Stef On May 11, 2013, at 12:21 AM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: Hi, To ease the transition to Athens, we need to get free type fonts in the image. I researched a bit, and found a couple of font families that are nicely free and open-source: DejaVu, Source Code Pro, Source Sans Pro, and LinLibertine. I put together a little tool that imports a TTF file and installs it in a dedicated class. You can find a library of already imported fonts on SmalltalkHub: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~girba/FreeFonts/ More details about this library can be found at: http://www.tudorgirba.com/blog/free-font-collection-for-pharo For example, you can use the SourceCodeProRegular font as a code font like: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'girba' project: 'FreeFonts'; package: 'SourceCodeProRegular'; load. (Smalltalk at: #SourceCodeProRegular) new install. FreeTypeSystemSettings loadFt2Library: true. StandardFonts codeFont: (LogicalFont familyName: 'Source Code Pro' pointSize: 10). The Moose image already comes with a convenience method to set a complete free type font set: MooseImageSetupCommandLineHandler new installFonts. Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com Be rather willing to give than demanding to get. ___ Moose-dev mailing list moose-...@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] font installer free type fonts
On May 12, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: Hi, The fonts-related code is a bit too complex for my mind. for mine too :) Semi bold is indeed not a FreeTypeFontFamily, but a FreeTypeFontFamilyMember. After loading the font, you can inspect it via: (LogicalFontManager current allFamilies detect: [:each | each familyName = 'Source Code Pro' ]) members detect: [ :each | each styleName = 'Semibold' ]. You will see that it has a couple of integer values for: stretch, weight and slant. The only way I could set a LogicalFont from outside was via these values explicitly: StandardFonts codeFont: (LogicalFont familyName: 'Source Code Pro' pointSize: 10 stretchValue: 5 weightValue: 600 slantValue: 0). I guess we need to review this part of Pharo. Cheers, Doru On May 11, 2013, at 5:39 PM, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Hi doru How do you use SourceCodeProSemibold for example StandardFonts codeFont: (LogicalFont familyName: 'Source Code Pro' pointSize: 10). Because there is no family name for semi bold Stef On May 11, 2013, at 12:21 AM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: Hi, To ease the transition to Athens, we need to get free type fonts in the image. I researched a bit, and found a couple of font families that are nicely free and open-source: DejaVu, Source Code Pro, Source Sans Pro, and LinLibertine. I put together a little tool that imports a TTF file and installs it in a dedicated class. You can find a library of already imported fonts on SmalltalkHub: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~girba/FreeFonts/ More details about this library can be found at: http://www.tudorgirba.com/blog/free-font-collection-for-pharo For example, you can use the SourceCodeProRegular font as a code font like: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'girba' project: 'FreeFonts'; package: 'SourceCodeProRegular'; load. (Smalltalk at: #SourceCodeProRegular) new install. FreeTypeSystemSettings loadFt2Library: true. StandardFonts codeFont: (LogicalFont familyName: 'Source Code Pro' pointSize: 10). The Moose image already comes with a convenience method to set a complete free type font set: MooseImageSetupCommandLineHandler new installFonts. Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com Be rather willing to give than demanding to get. ___ Moose-dev mailing list moose-...@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev ___ Moose-dev mailing list moose-...@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com If you can't say why something is relevant, it probably isn't. ___ Moose-dev mailing list moose-...@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
Re: [Pharo-project] [Lsehub-staff] AST-Navigation short demo
gisela Did you implement an sender and implementors based on the selector (ast analysis)? Did we replace the old one with this new one? Stef On May 8, 2013, at 2:03 PM, Gisela Decuzzi giseladecu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I've recorded the video as Damian suggested to show how to use the code navigation based in the ast :) Here it's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFLyzEI0jmE (Sorry for my English) And if you want to try: Gofer it url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/gisela/NodeNavigation/main'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNodeNavigation'; load. ((Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfNodeNavigation) project version: #development) load. A summary for the shortcuts: - going to the parent: ctrl + shift + p (command + shift + p for mac) - going to the first child: ctrl + shift + o (command + shift + o for mac) - going to same level node: ctrl + shift + u (command + shift + u for mac) It would be great to use the arrowUp or down, I want to check if it's easy to make them work first and also make the navigation available for debugger, workspace, message browser (...)
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] the future of squeaksource
On May 7, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Andrei Vasile Chis chisvasileand...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Given that SmalltalkHub is now stable we were considering to discontinue SqueakSource. Our idea is to provide a grace period of a couple of months to allow the current active users to migrate their projects to the new service and then simply put squeaksource in read-only mode (simply exposing the directory structure and allowing downloads). What do you think about it ? Are there any good reasons to still keep SqueakSource alive? Keep it alive so that we can slowly migrate. Because migrating takes a lot of time. Cheers, The SCG Team
Re: [Pharo-project] RFB in 2.0
this is called PharoExtras. Stef On May 6, 2013, at 6:16 PM, Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name wrote: Am 03.05.2013 um 20:09 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com: On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name wrote: Am 03.05.2013 um 20:00 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com: Hi Norbert, I would move it to its own new repo in SmalltalkHub. Ok, but then it goes under my private section, right? you can put it under PharoContributions team. How can I do that? I don't find anything like PharoContributions on smalltalkhub. Norbert Also, I had another problem with RFB and the UIManager. The solution I found was this one: http://samadhiweb.com/blog/2012.11.04.headless.rfb.html I don't like it because I need to change Pharo's base source, but I didn't spend time finding a better solution...I guess there is, though. The first line of code all my images (deployed on server using RFB) see is UIManager default: MorphicUIManager new. I was going to do that as well. But it is not clear to me WHERE you write that line of code. Because even if you save the image with that, doesn't the image set its own UI manager when booting? So I guess you need to pass around a script when running the image or something? What about adding RFB at startup list and implement #startUp doing UIManager default: MorphicUIManager new. ? Best, With that I don't have problems at all. thanks, Norbert Best, On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name wrote: I've found the problem. There is a FileDirectory access in RFBSession#desktopName. Removing it makes RFB work. The current RFB sources are on Lukas' server. What do we do with that stuff? Move to smalltalkhub? If not I can ask Lukas to give me write permission. Just wanted to ask what kind of behaviour is en vogue this days. Norbert Am 03.05.2013 um 19:31 schrieb Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name: Esteban, now I can tell that it isn't working for me either. Socket is open and server is running. But there are immediate disconnects when trying to connect to a pharo2.0 image. Did you figure it out? Norbert -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Re: [Pharo-project] Programming interactions with State Machines
On May 6, 2013, at 2:31 AM, Carla F. Griggio carla.grig...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone! I'm here to tell you that I started experimenting with a Pharo implementation of this idea: http://swingstates.sourceforge.net/. For those into UI programming I really recommend reading the first paper cited in that page. It's for programming user interface interactions with state machines, an approach to avoid the classical callback spaghetti that sometimes we get with event handlers everywhere. This is looking interesting. Now we should check how it works with inheritance. Keep us posted about your progress. Stef I have a tiny first step that shows an example for changing the color of a button on mouse over and changing it back to the original color on mouse out. You can download the code from: http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/CarlaGriggio/StateMachines/main Evaluate this for executing the example: SMButton openWithStateMachineInteraction And here is the code of the state machine for that example: SMButton class openWithStateMachineInteraction |button stateMachine iddle hover | button := self new. stateMachine := SMStateMachine newForWidget: button. iddle := (SMState newWithName:'iddle') enter:[:stMachine | stMachine widget color: Color yellow ]; addTransition: ((SMTransition forEvent: 'mouse enter' withOutputState: 'hover') transitionAction: [:stMachine | stMachine widget color: Color red ]). hover := (SMState newWithName:'hover') addTransition: (SMTransition forEvent: 'mouse out' withOutputState: 'iddle'); addTransition: (SMTransition forEvent: 'mouse enter' withOutputState: 'hover'). stateMachine addState: iddle; addState: hover. stateMachine attachTo: button. ^button openInWorld That code corresponds to the following states diagram: Screen Shot 2013-05-06 at 2.27.20 AM.png I will keep experimenting with this during the next weeks, and specially try to compare the pros and cons with regular event handling. Something cool about this approach is that the same widget could change its interactive behaviour on the fly by just attaching a different interaction state machine to it :) Also, I'm doing this for programming user interface interactions, but it could be useful for anything that can be modelled with a state pattern. Is there something similar out there already working? I was so eager to try this that I didn't look for related existing projects. Cheers! Carla.
Re: [Pharo-project] about logCr: vs. log: vs. trace:/traceCr:
I think that Cr is useless because they are to separate line in text and I want to kill text and just get objects (that can produce text but from a list of objects I easily can add a cr between their printstring :) Stef On May 5, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote: On 05 May 2013, at 21:42, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi guys Stupidly I introduced log: a while ago to replace Transcript show:. Now is the current situation. I still want to remove all the use of Transcript show: Now since I thought I did a mistake with log: because it overload Integerlog: I introduced trace: and traceCr: Now I do not like traceCr: because it is not a cool message. So what do we do: 1) we use crLog:, logCr: and deprecated log: 2) we use crTrace:, trace: and traceCr: I really prefer solution 1 but I would like to hear from you. Stef I am for 1 as well, but I find #crLog: or #logCr: confusing - there should only be one system wide approach. Also, whether or not to add a Cr to a log message (or before or after it) is not a decision a client/user should have to make. Maybe Cr makes no sense, for example when log messages are added to a collection. So I am for #log: as a simple and clear message. The conflict with Number#log: is less important than that IMHO. Either we live with the conflict or we rename Number#log: to Number#logBase: or something like that. I also like the convention of #value being sent by #log: to its argument. That allows for blocks that are not evaluated when logging is disabled. My 2c. Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
Re: [Pharo-project] about logCr: vs. log: vs. trace:/traceCr:
On May 6, 2013, at 7:16 AM, S Krish krishnamachari.sudha...@gmail.com wrote: I mentioned in another thread. #crLog, #logCr are intuitive and perfectly fine. Also hook Loggers first class into the system ( Toothpick ) and make it default to Transcript with these messages routed to the Logger. Transcript cr / current #crLog is akin to cout / System.out.println .. mostly deprecated in enterprise coding practices. I want to kill all the Transcript show: as well as as the logCr: I started to work on that and when it will be ready for feedback I will announce it. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 3:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote: On 05 May 2013, at 21:42, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi guys Stupidly I introduced log: a while ago to replace Transcript show:. Now is the current situation. I still want to remove all the use of Transcript show: Now since I thought I did a mistake with log: because it overload Integerlog: I introduced trace: and traceCr: Now I do not like traceCr: because it is not a cool message. So what do we do: 1) we use crLog:, logCr: and deprecated log: 2) we use crTrace:, trace: and traceCr: I really prefer solution 1 but I would like to hear from you. Stef I am for 1 as well, but I find #crLog: or #logCr: confusing - there should only be one system wide approach. Also, whether or not to add a Cr to a log message (or before or after it) is not a decision a client/user should have to make. Maybe Cr makes no sense, for example when log messages are added to a collection. So I am for #log: as a simple and clear message. The conflict with Number#log: is less important than that IMHO. Either we live with the conflict or we rename Number#log: to Number#logBase: or something like that. I also like the convention of #value being sent by #log: to its argument. That allows for blocks that are not evaluated when logging is disabled. My 2c. Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
Re: [Pharo-project] about logCr: vs. log: vs. trace:/traceCr:
Yes I have that in what I prepare. Stef On May 6, 2013, at 8:00 AM, Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. What about logging levels? I like logInfo:, logDebug:, logTrace:. Or maybe it is better to split log with levels: self log info:, self log debug:, self log trace: Best regards, Denis 2013/5/5 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Hi guys Stupidly I introduced log: a while ago to replace Transcript show:. Now is the current situation. I still want to remove all the use of Transcript show: Now since I thought I did a mistake with log: because it overload Integerlog: I introduced trace: and traceCr: Now I do not like traceCr: because it is not a cool message. So what do we do: 1) we use crLog:, logCr: and deprecated log: 2) we use crTrace:, trace: and traceCr: I really prefer solution 1 but I would like to hear from you. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] about logCr: vs. log: vs. trace:/traceCr:
I assume crLog:/logCr: is a short and convenient form of something else. How would these be called? Basically I want to log objects YES and only the default in Object should use Transcript in combination with asString. On top of the short form a convenient selector that adds a line ending makes sense. :) We are in sync :) There needs to be a getter for a log where one can attach all needs like logging levels, log destinations, etc. So is the plan to have only the direct replacement for Transcript show: or something that can be extended/used differently. Yes! And why do we use cr? because of text :) But since we will have objects :) I think it is pretty common to us NL = newline. Where does this come from? Logically a carriage return enables you only to print something in bold while newline enables you to print a whole page :) Norbert
Re: [Pharo-project] about logCr: vs. log: vs. trace:/traceCr:
On May 6, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name wrote: Am 06.05.2013 um 08:00 schrieb Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com: Hello. What about logging levels? I like logInfo:, logDebug:, logTrace:. Or maybe it is better to split log with levels: self log info:, self log debug:, self log trace: I think that opens a can of worms. What Stef wants is a say something method that is easy to use and commonly useful. Adding logging levels is a specialized form of logging that is not commonly useful, it's just commonly used in less reflective environments. So my proposal would be to have an equivalent to self log where you can return your own logging facility on which you can do self log info: 'something'. I changed my kind of logging some time ago. I just log objects. A log object isn't much more than to put it on top of a collection. While I'm not using strings for logging I have objects where I can attach all my use case dependent stuff. You could even put something like a log level information in those objects. I log Errors as well as progress state objects,etc. It is easy to process the whole log collection (now or afterwards) because all necessary state is still there. Yes!!! Another reason why I don't like strings for that is that I put the log messages as json in elasticsearch/mongo because I want to query them to find errornous behaviour. Well, sometimes I do both: Store it in a database and write it to disk. Because I don't convert it to a string at first possible time I can do that easily. We don't put sources in files so we shouldn't put log information only there. Make logging information a first class citizen! Yes this is what I'm doing right now. So back to coding….. Norbert Best regards, Denis 2013/5/5 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Hi guys Stupidly I introduced log: a while ago to replace Transcript show:. Now is the current situation. I still want to remove all the use of Transcript show: Now since I thought I did a mistake with log: because it overload Integerlog: I introduced trace: and traceCr: Now I do not like traceCr: because it is not a cool message. So what do we do: 1) we use crLog:, logCr: and deprecated log: 2) we use crTrace:, trace: and traceCr: I really prefer solution 1 but I would like to hear from you. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] WhatsUp from: 2013-05-06 until: 2013-05-19
On May 6, 2013, at 7:00 AM, seas...@rmod.lille.inria.fr wrote: Hi! We're sending this automatic email twice a month, to give the community an opportunity to easily know what's happening and to coordinate efforts. Just answer informally, and feel free to spawn discussions thereafter! ### Here's what I've been up to since the last WhatsUp: - massively cleaned Pharo by example git repository and its clones. - produced a first version of the spanish book (yes not just a collection of draft chapters) - pushing Squeaksource/Pharo10 to smalltalkhub - studying logging frameworks - reviewing Zinc chapter on gutenberg - produced a video of rolling dice in Pharo http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/Videos/2013-04-20-Dice-v3.mov - produced a chapter on dice rolling ### What's next, until 2013-05-19 (*): - going back to hacking Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo: an AMAZING community
thanks! I hope that it will help people in their business. Stef On May 5, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote: +100! Special thanks to Stef and all the guys at Lille. You're responsible for a lot of the drive that we generate. Max On 05.05.2013, at 16:13, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: I sometimes take for granted how extraordinary our community is. This morning, it sunk in a bit how magical it truly is... I brought up two issues I was having (not even bugs)... in the middle of the night... on a Saturday... And like the Smalltalk fairy had come and snuck a solution under my pillow while I dreamt, Sven and Benjamin added enhancements which solved my dilemma! Thank you both :) And thank you to everyone that's contributed over these years to make Pharo and its community so special :) - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-an-AMAZING-community-tp4685837.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Sprint
On May 4, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks everybody for the great sprint! We fixed a lot of things today (incomplete list, please extend): - DateAndTime startup cleansing - Fixing and integrating the new EyeInspector - Fixing Monticello recategorization bug - Removal of RBSmallDictionary - Removal of an old deadly Morphic Halo - Full documentation of the Fogbugz tracker statuses: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W65 - --help on the VM does an exit 0 instead of a failure (exit 1) - Monticello commit is no longer run in a separate thread, and thus the image does no longer freeze - Newly added Monticello repositories are compared against existing ones and thus not duplicated - Configuration and Jenkins job for Smalltalkhub ...? I hope we can repeat such a sprint again with the same motivation! Yes we should. Definitively. cheers cami
Re: [Pharo-project] How to Debug :D
On May 4, 2013, at 1:04 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: Did i said already that i don't like how ASTInterpreter implemented? :) We will let perfection for later :) Nevertheless, it is useful.. and this case clearly demonstrates that. On 4 May 2013 00:14, Clara Allende clari.alle...@gmail.com wrote: This is great news! Are you going to publish the code? it will come in handy for my summer of code :D Camillo has the image On 3 May 2013 03:21, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com Subject: [Lsehub-staff] How to Debug :D Date: May 2, 2013 6:22:06 PM GMT+02:00 To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Reply-To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Igor: Camillo can you help me debugging this strange athens rendering bug Cami: sure Igor: where do you think the bug is? The green path jumps if I change the Y coordinate and it shouldn't... Cami: no clue... Igor: Any clue how to get to the bug? Cami: let's use the ASTInterpreter to interpret two methods with different transformation matrices and see when they diverge. Result: --- - after 1h comparing AST Debugger is ready - we run the two traces, they do NOT diverge = Conclusion: --- Cairo, which was chosen as reference, did not properly draw the path!!! So we should publish the code of the ComparingInterpreter a bit and we can use it for a few more tasks in Pharo ;) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] the newlist breaks the changesorter.
forget it was fixed in latest…30 On May 4, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: running out to do shopping. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30100
marcus can you merge with my version of scriptloader next time you integrate? Because my changes are not in. Stef On May 4, 2013, at 4:21 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: 30100 - 10501 EyeInspector grammar issue https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10501 10504 minor cleaning of normalize:ticks:base: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10504 10516 clean up #refusesToAcceptCode https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10516 10505 Time newLocal is not normalized west of Greenwich https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10505 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Tools-MarcusDenker.1103 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Spec-Inspector-MarcusDenker.17 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Polymorph-Widgets-MarcusDenker.800 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Kernel-MarcusDenker.1423
Re: [Pharo-project] How to Debug :D
I understand why he wants that :) no stack explosion… Stef On May 4, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Clément Bera bera.clem...@gmail.com wrote: To be more precise, for the method : foo ^ 1 + 2 AST will be : ^ \ + / \ 1 2 AST Interpreter, to interpret ^, will do something like : start interpret ^ interpret subnode of ^ start interpret + interpret subnodes of + interpret 1 interpret 2 interpret + with subnodes interpretation result end interpret + interpret ^ with subnode interpretation result end interpret ^ Igor would like to have a flatten AST that would be in an array like : #( 1 2 + ^ ) Then you can interpret it with a loop [currentASTNode hasNextNode] whileTrue: [ self interpret: currentASTNode nextNode ]. And interpretation looks like : interpret 2 interpret 1 interpret + with two precedent results on stack interpret ^ with precedent result on stack 2013/5/4 Clément Bera bera.clem...@gmail.com 2013/5/4 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr On May 4, 2013, at 1:04 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: Did i said already that i don't like how ASTInterpreter implemented? :) We will let perfection for later :) It is not a question of perfection or so. Igor does not like that we interpret recursively the AST instead of with a loop (ASTInterpreterinterpret: calls itself again and again). He would like to have a flatten-AST-interpreter, with a loop like: [currentASTNode hasNextNode] whileTrue: [ self interpret: currentASTNode nextNode ]. But Camillo and I don't want that because it interprets a flatten AST, not a tree. Nevertheless, it is useful.. and this case clearly demonstrates that. On 4 May 2013 00:14, Clara Allende clari.alle...@gmail.com wrote: This is great news! Are you going to publish the code? it will come in handy for my summer of code :D Camillo has the image On 3 May 2013 03:21, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com Subject: [Lsehub-staff] How to Debug :D Date: May 2, 2013 6:22:06 PM GMT+02:00 To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Reply-To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Igor: Camillo can you help me debugging this strange athens rendering bug Cami: sure Igor: where do you think the bug is? The green path jumps if I change the Y coordinate and it shouldn't... Cami: no clue... Igor: Any clue how to get to the bug? Cami: let's use the ASTInterpreter to interpret two methods with different transformation matrices and see when they diverge. Result: --- - after 1h comparing AST Debugger is ready - we run the two traces, they do NOT diverge = Conclusion: --- Cairo, which was chosen as reference, did not properly draw the path!!! So we should publish the code of the ComparingInterpreter a bit and we can use it for a few more tasks in Pharo ;) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. -- Clément Béra Mate Virtual Machine Engineer Bâtiment B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq
Re: [Pharo-project] How to Debug :D
can you explain? Because I read something like that olong time ago and I forgot On May 4, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Frank Shearar frank.shea...@gmail.com wrote: So use a trampoline. Then you can define your recursion naturally, in constant stack space. frank On 04 May 2013, at 16:08, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: I understand why he wants that :) no stack explosion… Stef On May 4, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Clément Bera bera.clem...@gmail.com wrote: To be more precise, for the method : foo ^ 1 + 2 AST will be : ^ \ + / \ 1 2 AST Interpreter, to interpret ^, will do something like : start interpret ^ interpret subnode of ^ start interpret + interpret subnodes of + interpret 1 interpret 2 interpret + with subnodes interpretation result end interpret + interpret ^ with subnode interpretation result end interpret ^ Igor would like to have a flatten AST that would be in an array like : #( 1 2 + ^ ) Then you can interpret it with a loop [currentASTNode hasNextNode] whileTrue: [ self interpret: currentASTNode nextNode ]. And interpretation looks like : interpret 2 interpret 1 interpret + with two precedent results on stack interpret ^ with precedent result on stack 2013/5/4 Clément Bera bera.clem...@gmail.com 2013/5/4 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr On May 4, 2013, at 1:04 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: Did i said already that i don't like how ASTInterpreter implemented? :) We will let perfection for later :) It is not a question of perfection or so. Igor does not like that we interpret recursively the AST instead of with a loop (ASTInterpreterinterpret: calls itself again and again). He would like to have a flatten-AST-interpreter, with a loop like: [currentASTNode hasNextNode] whileTrue: [ self interpret: currentASTNode nextNode ]. But Camillo and I don't want that because it interprets a flatten AST, not a tree. Nevertheless, it is useful.. and this case clearly demonstrates that. On 4 May 2013 00:14, Clara Allende clari.alle...@gmail.com wrote: This is great news! Are you going to publish the code? it will come in handy for my summer of code :D Camillo has the image On 3 May 2013 03:21, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com Subject: [Lsehub-staff] How to Debug :D Date: May 2, 2013 6:22:06 PM GMT+02:00 To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Reply-To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Igor: Camillo can you help me debugging this strange athens rendering bug Cami: sure Igor: where do you think the bug is? The green path jumps if I change the Y coordinate and it shouldn't... Cami: no clue... Igor: Any clue how to get to the bug? Cami: let's use the ASTInterpreter to interpret two methods with different transformation matrices and see when they diverge. Result: --- - after 1h comparing AST Debugger is ready - we run the two traces, they do NOT diverge = Conclusion: --- Cairo, which was chosen as reference, did not properly draw the path!!! So we should publish the code of the ComparingInterpreter a bit and we can use it for a few more tasks in Pharo ;) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. -- Clément Béra Mate Virtual Machine Engineer Bâtiment B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo Logo SVG
this is cool :) Stef On May 4, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: And here how it looks in Athens.. yeah SVG importer needs more love, but my hands is too busy right now :( AthensSceneView new scene: (AthensSVGConverter fromFile: 'logo.svg'); openInWindow But this version of svg is much better, because old one contained bitmap data ... (brrr). Thanks for taking care! -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. Screen Shot 2013-05-04 at 7.43.25 PM.png
Re: [Pharo-project] Using Athens for real ...
On May 4, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 May 2013 12:31, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes that view is very neat! Especially for debugging, maintaining the Smalltalk immediate feedback principle :0 and after i finish with path geometry calcucations, you can implement clickable things, no matter what their shape :) arghh this is too cool :) I want that ;D The future will be massively fun :) Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] How to Debug :D
Thanks. This is CSP passing style? I thought it was different. Now going to eat and after I will digest that. Thanks for the snippet. Stef A trampoline looks like this: Foo trampoline: initialValue into: aUnaryBlock | v | v := [initialValue]. [v isBlock] whileTrue: [v := aUnaryBlock value: v value]. ^ v. and then used: | f factorial | factorial := 1. f := Foo new. f trampoline: 10 into: [ :n | n = 0 ifTrue: [factorial] ifFalse: [factorial := factorial * n. [n - 1]]]. The important thing is that the block returns a value for the base case/cases of the recursion, and a block that, when evaluated, will yield the next value on which to recurse. (So the block replaces the recursive call.) The trampoline thus turns the recursive algorithm into an iteration. frank On 4 May 2013 17:42, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: can you explain? Because I read something like that olong time ago and I forgot On May 4, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Frank Shearar frank.shea...@gmail.com wrote: So use a trampoline. Then you can define your recursion naturally, in constant stack space. frank On 04 May 2013, at 16:08, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: I understand why he wants that :) no stack explosion… Stef On May 4, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Clément Bera bera.clem...@gmail.com wrote: To be more precise, for the method : foo ^ 1 + 2 AST will be : ^ \ + / \ 1 2 AST Interpreter, to interpret ^, will do something like : start interpret ^ interpret subnode of ^ start interpret + interpret subnodes of + interpret 1 interpret 2 interpret + with subnodes interpretation result end interpret + interpret ^ with subnode interpretation result end interpret ^ Igor would like to have a flatten AST that would be in an array like : #( 1 2 + ^ ) Then you can interpret it with a loop [currentASTNode hasNextNode] whileTrue: [ self interpret: currentASTNode nextNode ]. And interpretation looks like : interpret 2 interpret 1 interpret + with two precedent results on stack interpret ^ with precedent result on stack 2013/5/4 Clément Bera bera.clem...@gmail.com 2013/5/4 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr On May 4, 2013, at 1:04 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: Did i said already that i don't like how ASTInterpreter implemented? :) We will let perfection for later :) It is not a question of perfection or so. Igor does not like that we interpret recursively the AST instead of with a loop (ASTInterpreterinterpret: calls itself again and again). He would like to have a flatten-AST-interpreter, with a loop like: [currentASTNode hasNextNode] whileTrue: [ self interpret: currentASTNode nextNode ]. But Camillo and I don't want that because it interprets a flatten AST, not a tree. Nevertheless, it is useful.. and this case clearly demonstrates that. On 4 May 2013 00:14, Clara Allende clari.alle...@gmail.com wrote: This is great news! Are you going to publish the code? it will come in handy for my summer of code :D Camillo has the image On 3 May 2013 03:21, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com Subject: [Lsehub-staff] How to Debug :D Date: May 2, 2013 6:22:06 PM GMT+02:00 To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Reply-To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Igor: Camillo can you help me debugging this strange athens rendering bug Cami: sure Igor: where do you think the bug is? The green path jumps if I change the Y coordinate and it shouldn't... Cami: no clue... Igor: Any clue how to get to the bug? Cami: let's use the ASTInterpreter to interpret two methods with different transformation matrices and see when they diverge. Result: --- - after 1h comparing AST Debugger is ready - we run the two traces, they do NOT diverge = Conclusion: --- Cairo, which was chosen as reference, did not properly draw the path!!! So we should publish the code of the ComparingInterpreter a bit and we can use it for a few more tasks in Pharo ;) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. -- Clément Béra Mate Virtual Machine Engineer Bâtiment B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq
[Pharo-project] How to Debug :D
Begin forwarded message: From: Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com Subject: [Lsehub-staff] How to Debug :D Date: May 2, 2013 6:22:06 PM GMT+02:00 To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Reply-To: RMoD private list lsehub-st...@lists.gforge.inria.fr Igor: Camillo can you help me debugging this strange athens rendering bug Cami: sure Igor: where do you think the bug is? The green path jumps if I change the Y coordinate and it shouldn't... Cami: no clue... Igor: Any clue how to get to the bug? Cami: let's use the ASTInterpreter to interpret two methods with different transformation matrices and see when they diverge. Result: --- - after 1h comparing AST Debugger is ready - we run the two traces, they do NOT diverge = Conclusion: --- Cairo, which was chosen as reference, did not properly draw the path!!! So we should publish the code of the ComparingInterpreter a bit and we can use it for a few more tasks in Pharo ;)
Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] GemStone/S product and team move to a dedicated company
this is cool :) Stef On May 3, 2013, at 9:22 PM, Dale Henrichs dhenr...@vmware.com wrote: If you haven't already heard, the GemStone/S team is becoming an independent company after 3 years as part of VMware. The entire engineering team is moving to GemTalk Systems[1]. GemTalk Systems is completely focused on Smalltalk, GemStone/S and allied initiatives. I've published a blog post[2] with my take on the acquisition (short answer is excited!), if you have any additional questions, feel free to contact me. Dale [1] http://gemtalksystems.com/index.php/about-us/engineers/ [2] http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/gemtalk-systems-acquires-gemstones/
Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?
+ 1 Let's propose a nice protocal and we use the rewrite tool for real! This is also why I want crLog instead of Transcript show: Stef Hi, all do not think that i am drunk or vent crazy, asking such silly question, which at best should be asked only by beginner :) I know the answer: Smalltalk at: #SomeName or Smalltalk globals at: #SomeName what stroke me, just now, that both answers is wrong! It should be: #SomeName asGlobal (or suggest more appropriate/precise method name for a symbol) optionally, we could also have one, with handling absent case: #SomeName asGlobalIfAbsent: [] same , but only if present: #SomeName asGlobalIfPresent: [:global | ] Currently, there is 941 references to 'Smalltalk' global in my pharo image. If we introduce this convenience method, it will shrink this number considerably, not saying that code will be more elegant and concise compare: (Smalltalk globals at: #Foo) doSomething and #Foo asGlobal doSomething P.S. What really strikes me is why we don't have such method from very beginning, and instead refer to 'Smalltalk' all over the places. Some things are so deeply indoctrinated in our minds, that we don't even think that it can be different. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] Moment of fun
Neat!!! Hello. (UpdatingStringMorph on: otherMorph selector: #position) openInWorld. and then move otherMorph on screen or (UpdatingStringMorph on: otherMorph selector: #extent) openInWorld. and then resize otherMorph 2013/4/30 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Hi guys I would like to build a small lectures based on all the small little crazy expressions that we use like StandardWindow allInstances do: #close. or myObject pointersTo or anObject become: String new. Do you have some cool expressions to share with me. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?
ConfigurationOfXYZ globalValue project bleedingEdge load. #ConfigurationOfXYZ globalValue project bleedingEdge load. may be #ConfigurationOfXYZ asClass ?
Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?
On May 2, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Frank Shearar frank.shea...@gmail.com wrote:
What's global? Even if you haven't implemented scoped environments,
rather use a name that doesn't imply that you'll never have scoped
environments.
:)
this is why I proposed asClass
Now asGlobal can be interpreted as as globally accessible stuff.
#asClass sounds better, except for Guillermo's point about well-known
things that aren't classes.
frank
On 2 May 2013 09:31, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com
wrote:
Sounds a bit like VW #{ }
This sounds good to me, but don't use globalBinding, I would expect this one
to answer the binding (Asociation) rather than the value.
2013/5/2 Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu
On 02 May 2013, at 06:03, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, all
do not think that i am drunk or vent crazy, asking such silly
question, which at best should be asked only by beginner :)
I know the answer:
Smalltalk at: #SomeName
or
Smalltalk globals at: #SomeName
what stroke me, just now, that both answers is wrong!
It should be:
#SomeName asGlobal
(or suggest more appropriate/precise method name for a symbol)
ConfigurationOfXYZ globalValue project bleedingEdge load.
ConfigurationOfXYZ globalValueIfPresent: [ :configuration | configuration
project bleedingEdge load ]
An alternative could be globalBinding, but that is more technical.
#asGlobal sounds like a conversion, on the other hand it is an accepted
idiom.
optionally, we could also have one, with handling absent case:
#SomeName asGlobalIfAbsent: []
same , but only if present:
#SomeName asGlobalIfPresent: [:global | ]
Currently, there is 941 references to 'Smalltalk' global in my pharo
image.
If we introduce this convenience method, it will shrink this number
considerably,
not saying that code will be more elegant and concise compare:
(Smalltalk globals at: #Foo) doSomething
and
#Foo asGlobal doSomething
P.S. What really strikes me is why we don't have such method from very
beginning,
and instead refer to 'Smalltalk' all over the places.
Some things are so deeply indoctrinated in our minds, that we don't
even think that it can be different.
--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?
asGlobalOrSomethingLikeThat :-) ;D
Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?
But today using Smalltalk everywhere means that we are always using the same environment, and that does not look like a big deal to anybody :)... And then, that's easily solved by doing some simple stuff if you like specify an environment, isn't it? SymbolasClass self asClassInEnvironment: self class environment SymbolasClassInEnvironment: anEnvironment anEnvironment globals at: self yes :) something like that. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] froze image just
On May 2, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 May 2013 09:54, Henrik Johansen henrik.s.johan...@veloxit.no wrote: What? I am 99.99% sure it used to interrupt the GUI process if no other viable candidate could be found, why change that? At least in my mind, if you hit cmd - dot, either you want to interrupt some process blocking the UI on a higher priority, or you want the UI process itself. For everything else, there's the Process Browser. It was never like that. It was always looking for a process which is scheduled, but not interrupt process itself. usually that meant it interrupts things like finalization process, so i added logic to avoid interrupting it unless there's nothing else to interrupt. The problem is that if process is waiting for semaphore (and UI process doing it quite often) the interrupt handler cannot detect it. Because 1) it is not scheduled 2) even if you iterate over Process allInstances and ask #isSuspended to it, it will answer true while 1) is fine, 2) is a design flaw i am talking about: - there is no way to discriminate between process which waits on semaphore and suspended process (which has no chances to run unless you send #resume to it, and therefore no need to interrupt) thanks for the explanation. Stef Cheers, Henry -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] 512 MB is not that much (Windows limit) WAS: RE: Opal Decompiler status
Hi I think that you have some points :) Indeed for Moose we should pay attention because we often deploy on windows. I wouldn't oppose to having the sources (or the AST or whatever ;-) in [object-]memory, although retaining the option of _also_ still writing all the changes into an external changelog (in case of VM, or the less rare case, Windows crashes). But no, we don't have enough memory (although now is perhaps the time to announce that 64GB ought to be enough for anybody ;-))). (the $25 Raspi comes with 256MB, the $35 with 512MB.) Incidentally, ~512 MB is the max you can get on Windows (otherwise crash after an ugly ~ 30 sec freeze; I checked sometime around the 2.0 release), and this is not enough for some applications. The Moose people complained a few years back (unable to, on Windows, load a large but otherwise fine image saved on Mac), the only solution offered was change a #DEFINE or makefile or something like that and rebuild the VM, then pray it works. Currently I avoid using Pharo in case I even suspect the app might come anywhere near that limit (to avoid nasty surprises / hasty rewrites later). Only problems I've heard of concerning DLL's mapped at weird offsets in address space (this was cited as reason for the memory limit) were related to trojan horses / stealth viruses tampering with system, and anti-virus / anti-malware SW doing basically the same ;-))) Or something getting loaded really early, geting the DLL - in this case it was kernel.dll - mapped at unusual offset which then got re-used for all other applications, but this was mentioned in context where in the end they were unable to allocate sufficiently large block of contiguous memory because something was siting in the middle of address space - and i _think_ think it was concerning LuaJIT. Would it be possible to prod Jenkins to produce (additional) windows builds with the limit lifted (or set to 2 GB; optionally perhaps a 1GB build) ? So interested testers could try them - as the problem was reported as only manifesting on some comps., while others ran completely fine. I think somebody mentioned that thanks to Jenkins it is/will be a childs play to add/clone another build(s). yes this is a good idea. IMO it would be great to do some larger-scale testing whether this problem still manifests itself and if so whether it could be worked around, or traced to whatever fucks windows up so they load DLL into the middle of the address space ... And lot more people would participate if build your own VM would be an optional step (I know, it's not that hard, and setting up mingw or msvc is not that hard either, but it takes a few hours to get it all up running). I've played with (used to solve actual problems / write applications which are used in production, i just got to choose the language ...) a LOT of prog. langs, and I don't remember this problem mentioned elsewhere. Clearly we pay the lag of not moving. For example SBCL, Smalltalk/X, Factor, SWI Prolog, Haskell (a few very different - on the inside as much as on the outside - examples) are able to utilise the whole 2GB (if your windows are configured to the standard 2GB/2GB user/kernel space split). Even that abomination that starts with letter J and is touted as The_Only_VM_and_Language is able to utilize ~1.5 GB on a 32bit system. Yes they probably put also lot of money on the table. I'd be able willing to test on XP/32 and Win7/32+64. I can even test on ~300 machines, although there are only a few hardware configurations, and all are installed according to the same template and mainly use the same software and antivirus. So it's probably not nearly as interesting as 30 totally random machines ... Anybody else thinks this sounds like a good idea ? Yes -Original Message- From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Marcus Denker Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:08 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Opal Decompiler status On Apr 27, 2013, at 6:42 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Marcus. I'm among the skepticals concerning the AST, but I'd like to be proven wrong, because AST level would certainly simplify things a lot. My main reserve is that interruption can occur at BC level, so for debugging purpose, what are your plans? Will you move the PC at some AST node boundary (if it is possible given side effects of some BC)? For the Debugger, everything stays as it is (until Pharo 4 or so). if you look at it, the current Debugger never decompiles if there is source available. It *compiles* to get - the mapping BC - text - the information how temporary variables in the byte code are actually related to temps in the source. (this is very complex,
Re: [Pharo-project] froze image just
On May 1, 2013, at 2:31 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 April 2013 22:44, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: trying to publish a slice on my harddisc without network…. and I could not interrupt anything. No cmd+. no interdiction sign did anything :( So is it normal? Not being able to interrupt something is a pain. stef the problem stems from the point that when you press cmd+. an interrupt process logic looking for some other active process to stop it.. now since UI process blocked by semaphore, as well as rest, it finds nothing to interrupt and ignores it :) i think we should think about it, like putting synthesized context with '1halt', to UI process, so when it will awake, it will be halted. Or... if interrupt handler found nothing, then always spawn new UI process opening debugger on old one. Yes igor because the experience is not good. I added https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10466 so that we do not forget it Stef -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] Moment of fun
I was more thinking in something useful :) On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:07 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: anObject become: String new. for become: related teaching, this is fun: magic #thisIsMagiC isSymbol ifTrue: [#thisIsMagiC become: #(0)]. #thisIsMagiC at: 1 put: (#thisIsMagiC at: 1) +1. ^#thisIsMagiC first.
Re: [Pharo-project] date and time delays
On May 1, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: Igor, How far is the fix, can I download it somewhere and test it? the changes of nicolas are nice and we should integrate them. I still think I get very strange side-effects from the waiting delay processes :P
Re: [Pharo-project] froze image just
Yes :) Same behavior here On May 1, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Stephan Eggermont step...@stack.nl wrote: Btw. Waiting for network timeout doesn't work. That is to say, waiting a night is not long enough Stephan Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
Re: [Pharo-project] SUnit design question
Indeed it would be nice to have. On May 1, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure if I asked that question before, but why is there no dedicated TestRunner model in SUnit? (detailed question further down) There is a TestRunner but that is clearly a UI part. We have right now 2 places in the system where that would come in handy: HDTestReport and the CommandLineTestRunner. Both places modify the output of the test runner, so to say instrument the test runs. see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16315726/how-do-i-instrument-test-runners-in-sunit
Re: [Pharo-project] froze image just
I created a slice then pressed save when clicking on the package cache and I was on the train my connection was flaky. So I should retry to see if I cut internet I get the same behavior Stef On May 1, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote: On 01 May 2013, at 14:06, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Yes :) Same behavior here On May 1, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Stephan Eggermont step...@stack.nl wrote: Btw. Waiting for network timeout doesn't work. That is to say, waiting a night is not long enough Stephan Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone Well, Stephan or Stéphane, give us/me a repeatable use case on Mac OS X (preferably using latest VM and 2.0) where you are sure a network timeout should occur and it doesn't. It has to include a description of what is precisely 'no network'. I know it is not perfect, but to make any progress we need something concrete. Sven
Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30080
30080 - 10461 Fixes for NewList https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10461 10432 Move API of Decompiler to Compiler facade https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10432 10465 Better syntax hilighting of start of existing identifier https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10465 that one too! :) I just noticed :) :) try it first :). Ideally I would like to be able to express that the incomplete should just be italic of the plain one but this is not simple to express. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Moment of fun
Yes! That's a great one :) I added to my presentation. Stef On May 1, 2013, at 6:38 PM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: I really love the use of fuel to serialize errors on the build server: - [ some code causing an error Error signal ] on: Error do: [ :error | FLSerializer serialize: error toFileNamed: 'error.fuel' ] - Then in a new image open a debugger on the serialized error: - error := FLMaterializer materializeFromFileNamed: 'error.fuel'. error debug.
Re: [Pharo-project] Moment of fun
On May 1, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, great superpowers! A bit more lightweight and efficient than abort(); gdb myApp core A small reminder for myself: [ (Delay forSeconds: 2 hours asSeconds) wait. WorldState addDeferredUIMessage: [ UIManager default inform: 'You''re Smalltalking too much There are other nice things worth in life' ]. ] fork Excellent! I added that one too :) Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo 3.0 :)
imagine soon athens :) Stef On Apr 30, 2013, at 1:06 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 April 2013 07:50, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi guys I thought that Pharo 20 got a lot of improvements but when I see Pharo 30, it feels like Pharo 30 is already a big step forward. This is really positive energy. When fernando will arrive we will move some efforts to Morphic so thanks you all for this cool feeling. Stef Yes, Opal opened doors for so many improvements... -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] dynamic spec contents
ben we should add that to the spec chapter. Can you log it somewhere and one day :) we pair write it :). Stef On Apr 30, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Benjamin benjamin.vanryseghem.ph...@gmail.com wrote: I just added two new examples in Spec-Examples-PolyWidgets (https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10458) It should be soon in Pharo ^^ Ben On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: Clement and I are working on the new Inspectors/Debuggers and we would like yo dynamically change spec widgets on the fly. Is there an example of that somewhere?
Re: [Pharo-project] Generalizing Keymapping idea
On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:24 AM, Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. Do you think about generalizing Keymapping idea on any event combinations (not just keyboard)? So we can write code like morph on: Mouse click ctrl do: [] morph on: $a click ctrl do: [] morph on: Mouse move shift + $b do: [] morph on: Gesture cicle shift + $x do: [] I like the idea but I would really like that we do not overload on:do: I think with such approach we can remove all morph overrides like #mouseDown:, #mouseUp. And it will big cleanup of morphic code. You know how many equal methods we have for each kind of event (handlesMouseDown:, handleMouseDown:, mouseDown: , etc). Best regards, Denis
Re: [Pharo-project] rubric performace
doru can you reproduce your crash? Because igor asked and I did not see your answer. Stef On Apr 25, 2013, at 12:03 AM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: Hi, I did a little experiment to check the performance of Rubric when dealing with large content. And by large, I mean 45 MB or about 15 million lines of text. I opened the file in several other editors: - TextMate: 10s + the text is wrapped and can be browsed smoothly - Sublime Text 2: 10s + the text is wrapped and can be browsed smoothly - Eclipse: 5s + browsing is very slow (so it is basically useless) How did Rubric perform: - When opened with unwrapped lines: 33s + the text can be browsed smoothly - When opened with wrapped lines - Pharo crashed :( In any case, I think being 3 times slower (even if without wrapping) than TextMate is highly exciting. Great job Alain. If you want to reproduce the experiment, here is the Smalltalk snippet I used: --- Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'AlainPlantec' project: 'Rubric'; package: 'Rubric-AlainPlantec.26'; load. [ contents := ((FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'src' / 'ArgoUML-0-34' / 'output.mse') readStreamDo: #contents). (RubLipsumBasicExample windowWithScrolledText: ( RubLipsumBasicExample new string: contents; newScrolledTextNotWrapped)) openInWorld ] timeToRun --- Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com What we can governs what we wish.
Re: [Pharo-project] rubric performace
tx! On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: Hi, I tried but could not :(. I tried multiple times to load the file and go around the out of memory limitation and then at some random point, Pharo crashed. I was on Mac when I did the experiment. If I get more info I will let you know. Doru On Apr 29, 2013, at 8:44 PM, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: doru can you reproduce your crash? Because igor asked and I did not see your answer. Stef On Apr 25, 2013, at 12:03 AM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: Hi, I did a little experiment to check the performance of Rubric when dealing with large content. And by large, I mean 45 MB or about 15 million lines of text. I opened the file in several other editors: - TextMate: 10s + the text is wrapped and can be browsed smoothly - Sublime Text 2: 10s + the text is wrapped and can be browsed smoothly - Eclipse: 5s + browsing is very slow (so it is basically useless) How did Rubric perform: - When opened with unwrapped lines: 33s + the text can be browsed smoothly - When opened with wrapped lines - Pharo crashed :( In any case, I think being 3 times slower (even if without wrapping) than TextMate is highly exciting. Great job Alain. If you want to reproduce the experiment, here is the Smalltalk snippet I used: --- Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'AlainPlantec' project: 'Rubric'; package: 'Rubric-AlainPlantec.26'; load. [ contents := ((FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'src' / 'ArgoUML-0-34' / 'output.mse') readStreamDo: #contents). (RubLipsumBasicExample windowWithScrolledText: ( RubLipsumBasicExample new string: contents; newScrolledTextNotWrapped)) openInWorld ] timeToRun --- Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com What we can governs what we wish. -- www.tudorgirba.com From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar.
Re: [Pharo-project] Trying to understand DateAndTime
thanks a lot!
Friday we have an official sprint so I'm sure that this issue will be
addressed.
Stef
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10425# and corresponding SLICE in
3.0 inbox
Note: I don't know what is the policy with the labels/states of these bug
tracker, and it rather bothers me, but the SLICE is ready for tests/reviews.
2013/4/27 Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com
There is more:
1) hasEqualTicks: use julianDayNumber instead of julianDayNumberUTC
2) (Time dateAndTime now) interprets the (Time localSeconds) which are from
the wrong primitive (seconds ellapsed since squeak epoch translated to local
time) as seconds ellapsed since squeak Epoch (UTC time).
We should really ban the old primitive 137 and only use the new one (240
which works with UTC microseconds).
I think Camillo did a good job, but he stopped cleaning too soon.
Ah, young guys are so impatient to invent the future ;)
2013/4/27 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr
On Apr 27, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Nicolas Cellier
nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote:
Since DateAndTime comment is out of date (sic !) and current implementation
seems not free of bug, here is an effort to summarize and understand the
whole thing, let's call this a review.
Thanks this is a great initiative!
Please tell me where my interpretations are wrong.
1) The DateAndTime is stored internally as
- a point in UTC time (julianDayNumber, seconds, nanos)
- an offset from UTC (a Duration) denoting the local time zone
2) The ticks method returns the UTC part {julianDayNumber. seconds. nanos}
3) DateAndTime print themselves in local time using the offset
4) other methods (with some exceptions) return the local dateAndTime parts
(year month day hours minutes seconds)
Exceptions are:
- secondsSinceMidnight (which should be renamed secondsSinceMidnightUTC
IMO, even if the method is classified private)
- julianDayNumberUTC as the name tells
So far so good (but secondsSinceMidnight which is error prone)
What I find strange:
- #hash uses the offset... Why ???
d1 := DateAndTime now.
d2 := d1 offset: d1 offset + 1 hours.
{
d1 = d2.
d1 hash = d2 hash.
}
gives #(true false), a clue?
- # compares julianDayNumber (the UTC inst. var.) with otherDate
julianDayNumber (with otherDate local offset) which seems wrong, it should
better use julianDayNumberUTC or (normalized) ticks.
- #= could be simplified and accelerated if using #hasEqualTicks: (if the
ticks are correctly normalized though which would be the case since
#ticks:offset: does, unfortunately #setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset: does not).
Some senders of #setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset: don't normalize the
day/seconds/nanos, though it should be their responsibility (DateAndTime
todayAtMilliSeconds: xxx) (DateAndTime todayAtNanoSeconds: xxx), not
counting year:month:day:hour:minute:second:nanoSecond:offset: which does
not either (many senders...).
Maybe we should better let the normalization responsibility to
#setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset:.
It remain to analyze the conversion protocol (asYear etc...) which seems to
use the local time year, but I don't understand the whole Timespan thing
right now (why DateAndTime now asYear starts now, and not on january 1st?).
Nicolas
Re: [Pharo-project] [Ann] TxText. New text editor done!
Hi denis Alain is gone on vacation but it told me that if you code scale he will throw away what he did :) May be the decorators that alain wrote can be merged. In any case this is excellent to get a better system. Yes. This is why I work on this project. But my first proposals was not make editor for large text. I actually not think about it at all. My main idea is make clean and extendible text editor. So anybody can understand how layout built, where text insertion happens, how it processed, how cursor wors and etc. I want text editor which is not required hacks to simple tasks like allow only numbers, hide cursor, disable text selection, make masked input, make smart completions and etc. Yes I like the idea. Now if our clients cannot use our tools then we will survive long :). And this is better for Pharo that we get rich :) Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Why keymap modifiers change receiver instead of return new instance?
Hello. I found this: shortcut := $a ctrl. self assert: shortcut == shortcut shift Why modifiers change receiver state instead of create new instance? I can understand since they modify the shortcut. To me it is very bad unexpected behaviour. Why? There is another example: shortcut := $a ctrl. self assert: shortcut == (KMModifier shift + shortcut) Yes. Such operation modified argument of message #+. What the crapp! Why it not returns new instance? I hope you agree to change this behaviour
Re: [Pharo-project] Trying to understand DateAndTime
Igor
could you review the changes of nicolas - I was planning to do it now but I'm
dead so I will do it but with half of my mind.
Because may be this is better to integrate his changes then do another pass
friday.
Stef
On Apr 28, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote:
On 28 April 2013 08:41, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote:
thanks a lot!
Friday we have an official sprint so I'm sure that this issue will be
addressed.
yes. and i hope i will put my changes into the soup as well.
(i did not published them, and some bits are unfinished).
Stef
See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10425# and corresponding SLICE in
3.0 inbox
Note: I don't know what is the policy with the labels/states of these bug
tracker, and it rather bothers me, but the SLICE is ready for tests/reviews.
2013/4/27 Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com
There is more:
1) hasEqualTicks: use julianDayNumber instead of julianDayNumberUTC
2) (Time dateAndTime now) interprets the (Time localSeconds) which are
from the wrong primitive (seconds ellapsed since squeak epoch translated to
local time) as seconds ellapsed since squeak Epoch (UTC time).
We should really ban the old primitive 137 and only use the new one (240
which works with UTC microseconds).
I think Camillo did a good job, but he stopped cleaning too soon.
Ah, young guys are so impatient to invent the future ;)
2013/4/27 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr
On Apr 27, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Nicolas Cellier
nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote:
Since DateAndTime comment is out of date (sic !) and current
implementation seems not free of bug, here is an effort to summarize and
understand the whole thing, let's call this a review.
Thanks this is a great initiative!
Please tell me where my interpretations are wrong.
1) The DateAndTime is stored internally as
- a point in UTC time (julianDayNumber, seconds, nanos)
- an offset from UTC (a Duration) denoting the local time zone
2) The ticks method returns the UTC part {julianDayNumber. seconds.
nanos}
3) DateAndTime print themselves in local time using the offset
4) other methods (with some exceptions) return the local dateAndTime
parts (year month day hours minutes seconds)
Exceptions are:
- secondsSinceMidnight (which should be renamed secondsSinceMidnightUTC
IMO, even if the method is classified private)
- julianDayNumberUTC as the name tells
So far so good (but secondsSinceMidnight which is error prone)
What I find strange:
- #hash uses the offset... Why ???
d1 := DateAndTime now.
d2 := d1 offset: d1 offset + 1 hours.
{
d1 = d2.
d1 hash = d2 hash.
}
gives #(true false), a clue?
- # compares julianDayNumber (the UTC inst. var.) with otherDate
julianDayNumber (with otherDate local offset) which seems wrong, it should
better use julianDayNumberUTC or (normalized) ticks.
- #= could be simplified and accelerated if using #hasEqualTicks: (if
the ticks are correctly normalized though which would be the case since
#ticks:offset: does, unfortunately #setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset: does
not).
Some senders of #setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset: don't normalize the
day/seconds/nanos, though it should be their responsibility (DateAndTime
todayAtMilliSeconds: xxx) (DateAndTime todayAtNanoSeconds: xxx), not
counting year:month:day:hour:minute:second:nanoSecond:offset: which does
not
either (many senders...).
Maybe we should better let the normalization responsibility to
#setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset:.
It remain to analyze the conversion protocol (asYear etc...) which
seems to use the local time year, but I don't understand the whole
Timespan
thing right now (why DateAndTime now asYear starts now, and not on january
1st?).
Nicolas
--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30069
We should really ask nicolas to check why the diff is broken because it was really nice to be able to follow changes. Stef On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:35 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: 30069 - 10423 simplify #firstPrecodeCommentFor: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10423 10426 move #parseSelector to Compiler https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10426 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Traits-MarcusDenker.481 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Tools-MarcusDenker.1085 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/System-Changes-MarcusDenker.200 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/System-FilePackage-MarcusDenker.76 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/NautilusRefactoring-MarcusDenker.87 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Kernel-MarcusDenker.1389 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/DebuggerModel-MarcusDenker.29 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Compiler-MarcusDenker.407 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/AST-Core-MarcusDenker.138
Re: [Pharo-project] [Ann] TxText. New text editor done!
On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com wrote: I upload new version 0.7: - clipboard operations - more navigation shortcuts - fixed bugs when editing text from start or end text positions - optimized text drawing to draw only visible lines - optimized TxIntervalcontains:. So now #newTextContents: works on big strings With this version I again investigate beautiful morphic events code (you should install slice 10427). I add shortcuts Character end ctrl and Character home ctrl to move cursor at text end and start. And it was not work. I debug what happens and KeyboardEvent from Character home ctrl was printed as ctrl+d. What's the crap! Ok I found this code: modifiedCharacter self flag: #hack. Hack me. When Ctrl is pressed, the key ascii value is not right and we have to do something ugly ^(self controlKeyPressed and: [ (#(MacOSX Windows) includes: Smalltalk os current platformFamily) and: [ keyValue = 26 ]]) ifTrue: [ (self keyValue + $a asciiValue - 1) asCharacter ] ifFalse: [ self keyCharacter ] horrible! As igor said this is not that we do not want but we have to pay attention to our ressources. I don't know why such complicated code needed but with only ^self keyCharacter you will replace many standart shortcuts with some random behaviour. So I just extract special logic to method and put here special checking for home and end characters: KeyboardEventhasSpecialCTRLKeyValue 4 - Character end 1 - Character home ^ self controlKeyPressed and: [ keyValue = 26 (keyValue ~= 4) (keyValue ~= 1) ] And I remove dublication in printing keyboard event. Slice with fix here https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10427. Should I put it at configuration dependency? I read about new events system at pharo vision. Is new system will remove such hacks?
Re: [Pharo-project] Trying to understand DateAndTime
Nicolas I read all the slice and I like it (even if they are place where I do not get fully it :). I'm dead. So may be this is obvious but I do not understand the or: logic If the seconds is negative I do not understand what is happening. normalizeSecondsAndNanos (NanosInSecond = nanos or: [ nanos 0 ]) ifTrue: [ seconds := seconds + (nanos // NanosInSecond). nanos := nanos \\ NanosInSecond]. (SecondsInDay = seconds or: [ seconds 0 ]) ifTrue: [ julianDayNumber := julianDayNumber + (seconds // SecondsInDay). seconds := seconds \\ SecondsInDay]. Stef On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, this was valid when jdn, seconds and nanos where maintained in local time... 2013/4/28 Paul DeBruicker pdebr...@gmail.com Nicolas Cellier wrote What I find strange: - #hash uses the offset... Why ??? Maybe because of this: http://forum.world.st/true-hash-tp4621497p4624623.html which you fixed here: See http://forum.world.st/true-hash-tp4621497p4624706.html -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Trying-to-understand-DateAndTime-tp4683997p4684123.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Trying to understand DateAndTime
On Apr 28, 2013, at 11:19 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: \\ returns a positive remainder. example: -1 \\ 86400 - 86399 -1 // 86400 - -1 Yes I saw that and now I realized I understand it. But funnily I did not notice the difference between the use of // and \\ So the jdn is decremented and seconds are correctly normalized. 2013/4/28 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr Nicolas I read all the slice and I like it (even if they are place where I do not get fully it :). I'm dead. So may be this is obvious but I do not understand the or: logic If the seconds is negative I do not understand what is happening. normalizeSecondsAndNanos (NanosInSecond = nanos or: [ nanos 0 ]) ifTrue: [ seconds := seconds + (nanos // NanosInSecond). nanos := nanos \\ NanosInSecond]. (SecondsInDay = seconds or: [ seconds 0 ]) ifTrue: [ julianDayNumber := julianDayNumber + (seconds // SecondsInDay). seconds := seconds \\ SecondsInDay]. Stef On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, this was valid when jdn, seconds and nanos where maintained in local time... 2013/4/28 Paul DeBruicker pdebr...@gmail.com Nicolas Cellier wrote What I find strange: - #hash uses the offset... Why ??? Maybe because of this: http://forum.world.st/true-hash-tp4621497p4624623.html which you fixed here: See http://forum.world.st/true-hash-tp4621497p4624706.html -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Trying-to-understand-DateAndTime-tp4683997p4684123.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30069
On Apr 28, 2013, at 11:33 PM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: stephane ducasse wrote We should really ask nicolas to check why the diff is broken I mentioned a few times that it seems that it fails when none of the package version's ancestors are present on stub. e.g. from http://forum.world.st/update-3-0-30024-td4680178.html, http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Spec-Layout-MarcusDenker.39 works but the others do not. I really have to check because ideally I would like to send them to the list, - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/update-3-0-30069-tp4684135p4684190.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30066
marcus do you know why the diff does not work with SmalltalkHub? On Apr 26, 2013, at 5:43 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: 30066 - 10401 Add Amber BlockClosure asynchronous methods into Pharo https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10401 10418 cleanUp #methodHeaderFor: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10418 10419 Remove CompiledMethodWithNode (part 2) https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10419 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Traits-MarcusDenker.475 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Tools-MarcusDenker.1083 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Kernel-MarcusDenker.1382 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Compiler-MarcusDenker.400
Re: [Pharo-project] [Ann] TxText. New text editor done!
Nice! Denis did you see the benchs that doru tried to see if we can use Rubric? Because it is interesting to see if we can load and manipulate really large file. Now it would be good that alain releases Rubric with a stable version and check how to take advantage of the new TextMorph. Stef On Apr 26, 2013, at 11:19 PM, Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys. I'm happy to announce that new text editor based on new text model done. You can load configuration from http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~sig/TxText. Last version: 0.6. See class side example methods. What available now in TxTextMorph: - cursor navigation with move left, right, down, up and mouse click - text selection with move left, right, down, up and mouse movement - editing by keyboard input - text wrap - #addCursor/#removeCursor - #enableSelection. - #beEditable - all keyboard interractions based on shortcuts Little details about navigation and editing: There is TxEditor object which know about cursor position and text selection. Text morph ask him to perform all navigation and editing behaviour. It has cursorMode which knows how to change editor selection when cursor moved. Editor delegates all move actions to cursorPosition by #doesNotUnderstand method. It is simplified adding new navigation methods. For example see TxTextMorphenableSelection aTxTextMorphmoveEditorOn: Character arrowLeft by: #moveLeft. This expression adds two shortcuts: to move editor left and to select text left (when selectionModeModifier active). What next: - Remains standart navigation and editing features like copy/paste, move to line end, to text end and etc. - halo menu items to edit text and layout properties - Edit decorators to get mask behaviour like (999)***-**-**, pretty numbers like 1'000'000, secrete field like *** - Value specs to filter inserted text (only numbers, only english and etc) There are some problems with focus behaviour now. And drawing text morph with transparent back color works bad. It will be cool if somebody with good knowledge at this topics can fix it. Best regards, Denis
Re: [Pharo-project] Smart Suggestion Version 1
On Apr 26, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Gisela Decuzzi giseladecu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/4/24 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr What would be cool is to have a way to select the enclosing expression but you know it:) Now I'm selecting the node from the expression where you asked for suggestions... I'm looking to for underline the scope but it's an advance. Also if you want to try it's working in Rubric text editor example (but only throw the menu). I should look at it :)
Re: [Pharo-project] [Ann] TxText. New text editor done!
Thanks for your energy, alain told me that he will also have a look. This is good to see movement from this front. Having a scalable texteditor with rich editing capabilities (icons, line number) is important for Moose and synectique. Also the new generation code browser will benefit from this new TextMorph. Stef On Apr 27, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/4/27 Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com 2013/4/27 stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr Nice! Denis did you see the benchs that doru tried to see if we can use Rubric? Because it is interesting to see if we can load and manipulate really large file. Now it would be good that alain releases Rubric with a stable version and check how to take advantage of the new TextMorph. I saw his post. And just now I check this test with TxTextMorph with unwrapped strategy. Similar results like at Rubric test. nearly 30 secs. I generate 50 mb string with almost million lines: TxModel building get 10 seconds. Layout building get 20 seconds. I found that Tudor wrote about 15 million lines. So I change my test and now I have OutOfMemotyWarning. It raised on splitting given string on lines. Obviously building text model should be optimized by work with stream.
Re: [Pharo-project] [Ann] TxText. New text editor done!
Hi denis Alain is gone on vacation but it told me that if you code scale he will throw away what he did :) May be the decorators that alain wrote can be merged. In any case this is excellent to get a better system. Stef On Apr 27, 2013, at 5:17 PM, Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com wrote: I should say it is not difficult to do with current design. I were think about it and current layout building logic requires little changes, maybe just one spesific method. But there is cases where any text change required rebuilding full layout. Fo example, single line text with wrapping mode. 2013/4/27, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com: Very impressive progress, Denis! :) I going to finish low-level stuff in Athens (path approximation / point location) and then go straight to text rendering with existing Text. Next stage will be to take TxText model and provide rendering for it with Athens, as well as review the code. About text editing and re-layout. It should be possible that any local update (which affecting only single character span or multiple adjusted character spans will require only local recalculations of text layout). Otherwise there is no reason why in our model we don't keep whole text in single big buffer (like Text does). Splitting text on multiple spans was the reason to make local layout updates possible. But i know it is not that easy to do :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] Trying to understand DateAndTime
On Apr 27, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Nicolas Cellier
nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote:
Since DateAndTime comment is out of date (sic !) and current implementation
seems not free of bug, here is an effort to summarize and understand the
whole thing, let's call this a review.
Thanks this is a great initiative!
Please tell me where my interpretations are wrong.
1) The DateAndTime is stored internally as
- a point in UTC time (julianDayNumber, seconds, nanos)
- an offset from UTC (a Duration) denoting the local time zone
2) The ticks method returns the UTC part {julianDayNumber. seconds. nanos}
3) DateAndTime print themselves in local time using the offset
4) other methods (with some exceptions) return the local dateAndTime parts
(year month day hours minutes seconds)
Exceptions are:
- secondsSinceMidnight (which should be renamed secondsSinceMidnightUTC IMO,
even if the method is classified private)
- julianDayNumberUTC as the name tells
So far so good (but secondsSinceMidnight which is error prone)
What I find strange:
- #hash uses the offset... Why ???
d1 := DateAndTime now.
d2 := d1 offset: d1 offset + 1 hours.
{
d1 = d2.
d1 hash = d2 hash.
}
gives #(true false), a clue?
- # compares julianDayNumber (the UTC inst. var.) with otherDate
julianDayNumber (with otherDate local offset) which seems wrong, it should
better use julianDayNumberUTC or (normalized) ticks.
- #= could be simplified and accelerated if using #hasEqualTicks: (if the
ticks are correctly normalized though which would be the case since
#ticks:offset: does, unfortunately #setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset: does not).
Some senders of #setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset: don't normalize the
day/seconds/nanos, though it should be their responsibility (DateAndTime
todayAtMilliSeconds: xxx) (DateAndTime todayAtNanoSeconds: xxx), not counting
year:month:day:hour:minute:second:nanoSecond:offset: which does not either
(many senders...).
Maybe we should better let the normalization responsibility to
#setJdn:seconds:nanos:offset:.
It remain to analyze the conversion protocol (asYear etc...) which seems to
use the local time year, but I don't understand the whole Timespan thing
right now (why DateAndTime now asYear starts now, and not on january 1st?).
Nicolas
Re: [Pharo-project] Opal Decompiler status
But I would like that we finish first all the other cool tasks for 3.0 before opening something new. Finishing is difficult so let us focus on it. Stef On Apr 27, 2013, at 8:13 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: On Apr 27, 2013, at 8:01 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Right, if you embed source along with CompiledMethod (to handle the case when the CompiledMethod has been replaced but one of its block of code is still used), then you don't need Decompiler in the first place. Nonetheless, I would remove the .sources but not the .changes. The .changes is not only a source code repository (that feature can go away if you want), it's before all a change log, an insurance to retrieve some change when everything else failed (image crashed or worse corrupted image won't restart). You can make the insurance optional if you want, but please continue to provide an equivalent service. A change file is the most simple thing that could possibly work IMO. But this is another thread. Yes, we have a solution for that… the thing is that the .changes has 3 roles. In the 1978, it was very clever to design one extremely memory efficient mechanism to kill all three: 1) keep a history of all the accepted method sources in the image (see versions) 2) store the code on disk efficiently with no duplications (They counted those extremely expensive disks in the one-diget Megabytes back then). 3) have transaction log for the source code in case of image crash. Now today, we can solve all three using three different methods: 1) we will just keep the accepted methods in memory until you commit to monticello/git (in case of git one can even commit all the intermediates, for MC one would just commit the latest). after the in-image history is pruned (like it is now eventually anyway when you start with a fresh image). 2) We don't need to store the *current* version on disk. Compressed in memory. Yes, that is what progress brings… 3) Disk space is so cheap it is not even funny. - we will just have a dedicated log. And we can even store Objects… And then we can leverage the extreme simplicity of the resulting scheme.. simplicity is an amazing thing. (Or the contrary: I think people understate the effects of complexity). Marcus
Re: [Pharo-project] Opal Decompiler status
Thanks Marcus. I'm among the skepticals concerning the AST, but I'd like to be proven wrong, because AST level would certainly simplify things a lot. Me too :) But marcus knows it since the end of his PhD :D. This is why I really want to see AST compression. My main reserve is that interruption can occur at BC level, so for debugging purpose, what are your plans? Will you move the PC at some AST node boundary (if it is possible given side effects of some BC)? 2013/4/27 Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr On Apr 27, 2013, at 5:59 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote:. Could we have a primer on what remains to do on the Opal front? - debug BC-IR-AST-text mapping more (lots of it working already) - debug temp variable lookup in optimized blocks in the debugger (almost there, too) - Go through all the test for the old Compiler and port them to the new. - Better compiler API and refactor the whole system to use it (but keep a backward compatible API at least to some extend) All the TODOs are in the bug tracker, Project Compiler (Opal). There are right now 29 Issues. Marcus
Re: [Pharo-project] Opal Decompiler status
On Apr 27, 2013, at 8:00 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Right, if you embed source along with CompiledMethod (to handle the case when the CompiledMethod has been replaced but one of its block of code is still used), then you don't need Decompiler in the first place. Nonetheless, I would remove the .sources but not the .changes. The .changes is not only a source code repository (that feature can go away if you want), it's before all a change log, an insurance to retrieve some change when everything else failed (image crashed or worse corrupted image won't restart). You can make the insurance optional if you want, but please continue to provide an equivalent service. A change file is the most simple thing that could possibly work IMO. But this is another thread. I agree, we have been discussing (and I do not like much the idea to have the changes inside the image as objects because now we have a nice literal object parser/writer and making sure that we can never lose source code is cool). In any case we are working on a new change format recording more high-level entity (such refactoring). We looked again at the model that veronica did, and Ezequiel and we looked again at DeltaStreams. We should digest all that and come up with a new alternate changes model file. I was about to contact goran to see if he wants to participate/ read a paper but we should write the paper first :) Concerning the temp mapping, I agree, we should not compete with Eliot, he's very tough at tedious tasks, our only weapon is lazyness, lazyness often leads to efficiency ;) I'm curious to check how you handled this complex part with AST when I'll have more time to dig. 2013/4/27 Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr On Apr 27, 2013, at 6:42 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Marcus. I'm among the skepticals concerning the AST, but I'd like to be proven wrong, because AST level would certainly simplify things a lot. My main reserve is that interruption can occur at BC level, so for debugging purpose, what are your plans? Will you move the PC at some AST node boundary (if it is possible given side effects of some BC)? For the Debugger, everything stays as it is (until Pharo 4 or so)… if you look at it, the current Debugger never decompiles if there is source available. It *compiles* to get - the mapping BC - text - the information how temporary variables in the byte code are actually related to temps in the source. (this is very complex, temps can be e.g. stored on the heap if they are written to in a closure, and when they are just read they have a different offset in each closure they are in. Conversely, some temps in the byte code are used to store the array that hold the variables that are on the heap…) The old compiler recorded mappings while compiling that where encoded… quite complex, at least for my tiny brain. So the new just keeps the AST annotated with all the needed infos, this is much easier to debug (and we do have the memory these days, and as we cache the AST, it's even fast). So the debugger needs the compiler. The decompiler now exists just to make text so that we can call the compiler in the case there is no .sources. The debugger *always* compiles to get the mappings, as soon as there is source code the decompiler will never be used. (and even if the decompiler is used, the compiler is called right after on it's results so one can record the mappings). So if you make sure there is always source-code (or a representation with the right amount of meta data), you don't need the decompiler. So at the start it will be the source code. And yes, this takes memory. But we are in 2013 and if we have one thing than it's memory. (the $25 Raspi comes with 256MB, the $35 with 512MB…). We could have shipped 2.0 with 8MB of useless Monticello meta data and nobody would have even realized it. (like we have now megabytes of fonts in the image…). Yet the source is special… I really wonder why. (And yes, there should be solutions to not need unused data in main memory and solutions to share across multiple images data that is the same… but for all kinds of stuff, not just source code). Marcus
Re: [Pharo-project] SandstoneDB on Pharo 2.0 - done - what next?
also, I noticed there is no ConfigurationOfSandstoneDB... There already is one in MetacellRepository, just look at the comments below the video: It seems to work well when the ConfigufationOfXyz is kept with the project and then copied to wherever else it should be. I find that by now there are too many places to go hunting! we are working on making it totally automatic. Now you hsould publish in your project and in MetacelloRepository MetaRepoForPharo20 - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/SandstoneDB-on-Pharo-2-0-done-what-next-tp4683508p4683640.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Call for ESUG 2013 presentations
Hi janko Let's say that I found your email a bit funny. - First I'm on holidays using a slow connection internet and I should something better for my holidays. - Second I cannot post to Etoys, Squeak and this is years that nobody posted anything on comp.lang.smalltalk. - Third it took me more than afternoon writing the call so other people can click and do forward to the mailing-lists of their wishes. - Fourth if you believe that this is on purpose that I do not send mail to the squeak mailing-lists, I would say that you should start to do more for squeak than me and then we can talk :). Stef On Apr 24, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Janko Mivšek janko.miv...@eranova.si wrote: Hi Stef, I don't see that announcement on Squeak mailing list, nor others except vwnc, on comp.lang.smalltalk should also go, also squeakland, etoys, ... Best regards Janko Dne 24. 04. 2013 16:49, piše stephane ducasse: with the corrected url with corrected uppercased C for conferences :) 21st International Smalltalk Joint Conference - Call for Contributions Annecy, France from 9 to 13 September 2013 http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/ This call includes: Developer Forum Smalltalk Technology Award International Workshop http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop Student Volunteer http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/StudentVolunteers Camp Smalltalk 8 September 2013 -- For the past 21 years, the European Smalltalk User Group (ESUG) has organised the International Smalltalk Conference, a lively forum on cutting edge software technologies that attract people from both academia and industry for a whole week. The attendees are both engineers using Smalltalk in business and students and teachers using Smalltalk both for research and didactic purposes. As every year, this year's edition of the largest European Smalltalk event will include the regular Smalltalk developers conference with renowned invited speakers, a Smalltalk camp that proves fruitful for interactions and discussions. This year will be held the 9th edition of the Innovation Technology Awards where prizes will be awarded to authors of best pieces of Smalltalk-related projects and an international workshop on Smalltalk and dynamic languages (http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop) You can support the ESUG conference in many different ways: * Sponsor the conference. New sponsoring packages are described at http://www.esug.org/supportesug/becomeasponsor/ * Submit a talk, a software or a paper to one of the events. See below. * Attend the conference. We'd like to beat the previous record of attendance (170 people at Amsterdam 2008)! * Students can get free registration and hosting if they enrol into the the Student Volunteers program. See below. Developers Forum: International Smalltalk Developers Conference We are looking for YOUR experience on using Smalltalk. You will have 30 min for presentations and 45 min for hand-ons tutorial. The list of topics for the normal talks and tutorials includes, but is not limited to the following: * XP practices, Development tools, Experience reports * Model driven development, Web development, Team management * Meta-Modeling, Security, New libraries frameworks * Educational material, Embedded systems and robotics * SOA and Web services, Interaction with other programming languages Teaching Pearls --- New this year!!! We want two news types of sessions in addition to default talk and show us your projects sessions. - Show your business 10 min session (Get prepared!!) - Teaching pearls : we want some session on how to teach some design aspects. We want your tip and tricks to teach Smalltalk or OOP. We expect to have several 10 to 15 min sessions aggregated. Open Forum: starting with Smalltalk New this year!! The event will be held at IAE Savoie Mont-Blanc - University of Savoie. This is an opportunity for students and local professionals to discover Smalltalk. A room will be freely accessible and we would like to propose some talks and workshop for Smalltalk beginners. The list of topics includes, but is not limited to the following: - Why Smalltalk ? - Panorama of Smalltalk solutions - Getting started with Smalltalk - Success stories How to submit? -- Submissions due on 15st June 2013 Notification of acceptance will be on done on the fly. More information at http://www.esug.org/conferences/2013 Pay attention: the places are limited so do not wait till the last minute to apply. Prospective presenters should submit a request to stephane.duca
Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30062
do what is the easiest for you :) Stef On Apr 25, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: Not yet… so I managed to not see a bug and now the image is in a non-updatable state. https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-1-Tracker/259/console I am even too tired to think what the options are… maybe retracting the faulty one? On Apr 25, 2013, at 6:01 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: 30062 - 10403 Class comments in Kernel and Collections https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10403 10404 Improve RBScanner error handling https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10404 10405 Fix a wrong refactoring in CodeImport https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10405 10352 Fix for MorphTreeMorphupdateList https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10352/ Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Morphic-MarcusDenker.1403 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/KernelTests-MarcusDenker.489 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Kernel-MarcusDenker.1375 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/CollectionsTests-MarcusDenker.594 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/CodeImport-MarcusDenker.16 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Collections-Arithmetic-MarcusDenker.9 http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/AST-Core-MarcusDenker.133
Re: [Pharo-project] Smart Suggestion Version 1
+ 1 Interfaces are a cool concept and we should use them and adhere to them conceptually I am tempted to deprecate #definesMethod: and just rename it to canUnderstand: (and fix all senders) This way the RB model for code would be one step closer to normal classes and methods.
Re: [Pharo-project] Smart Suggestion Version 1
What would be good is that when we get the sender/implementor is to get - the name of the entity as first entry in the menu - get the entity selected in the text. blockClosureValue: aBlockClosure message: aMessage |newMessage| newMessage := Message selector: #valueWithArguments: arguments: (Array with: aMessage arguments). ^self blockClosureValueWithArguments: aBlockClosure message: newMessage when I'm on selector: it works I get selector:arguments: now when I'm #valueWithArgurments it does not What would be cool is to have a way to select the enclosing expression but you know it:) When can we push that into 3.0 Stef Hello! After some work I think that Smart Suggestions it's ready to have some real feedback to continue growing up :) What is it? The idea it's to have suggestions based in the text selected or the cursor position. Actually there are suggestions for: - Temporary/Instance/Class Variable - Class - Method (when you are in the selector) - Source (multiple lines) - Message How to install it? Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'gisela' project: 'SmartSuggestions'; package: 'SmartSuggestions'; load. Some screen shots: (to activate de menu the shortcut es Ctrl + t for windows or unix and Command + t for mac) Method.png ClassVariable.png Message.png How to define a new action? It's easy to define your own action only use the pragma in your custom method and make sure to retunr an instance of SugsSuggestion, examples in SugsSuggestionFactory are categorized by the selection. If you have some comments I will be very happy to heard about, I have removed the actions form nautilus menu, because it was to much visual noise (at least for me) if you want to add it, only uncoment the pragma in: #SugsMenuBuilderaddSuggestionToSourceCodeMenu: ps: It could appear a DNU when fetching the suggestions for a class variable the description and solution are in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10380#75204
Re: [Pharo-project] Smart Suggestion Version 1
On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:21 PM, Gisela Decuzzi giseladecu...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I got the point :) https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10392#75301 Now I will work to mark the selections and the problems with senders form the symbol. Thanks :) I'm toying with rubric and I dream about seeing the expressions surrounding my cursor :). Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] Browsing some code and surprise
may be the best is to - stabilize the current functionality and - have a look at rubric alain told me that now syntax highlight was working. Stef On Apr 24, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Gisela Decuzzi giseladecu...@gmail.com wrote: #Editorselect If the text selection is visible on the screen, reverse its highlight. ^'Not doing anything' screw this logic selectionShowing ifFalse: [self reverseSelection] deselect If the text selection is visible on the screen, reverse its highlight. * screw this logic * selectionShowing ifTrue: [self reverseSelection]
Re: [Pharo-project] Call for ESUG 2013 presentations
with the corrected url with corrected uppercased C for conferences :) 21st International Smalltalk Joint Conference - Call for Contributions Annecy, France from 9 to 13 September 2013 http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/ This call includes: Developer Forum Smalltalk Technology Award International Workshop http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop Student Volunteer http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/StudentVolunteers Camp Smalltalk 8 September 2013 -- For the past 21 years, the European Smalltalk User Group (ESUG) has organised the International Smalltalk Conference, a lively forum on cutting edge software technologies that attract people from both academia and industry for a whole week. The attendees are both engineers using Smalltalk in business and students and teachers using Smalltalk both for research and didactic purposes. As every year, this year's edition of the largest European Smalltalk event will include the regular Smalltalk developers conference with renowned invited speakers, a Smalltalk camp that proves fruitful for interactions and discussions. This year will be held the 9th edition of the Innovation Technology Awards where prizes will be awarded to authors of best pieces of Smalltalk-related projects and an international workshop on Smalltalk and dynamic languages (http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop) You can support the ESUG conference in many different ways: * Sponsor the conference. New sponsoring packages are described at http://www.esug.org/supportesug/becomeasponsor/ * Submit a talk, a software or a paper to one of the events. See below. * Attend the conference. We'd like to beat the previous record of attendance (170 people at Amsterdam 2008)! * Students can get free registration and hosting if they enrol into the the Student Volunteers program. See below. Developers Forum: International Smalltalk Developers Conference We are looking for YOUR experience on using Smalltalk. You will have 30 min for presentations and 45 min for hand-ons tutorial. The list of topics for the normal talks and tutorials includes, but is not limited to the following: * XP practices, Development tools, Experience reports * Model driven development, Web development, Team management * Meta-Modeling, Security, New libraries frameworks * Educational material, Embedded systems and robotics * SOA and Web services, Interaction with other programming languages Teaching Pearls --- New this year!!! We want two news types of sessions in addition to default talk and show us your projects sessions. - Show your business 10 min session (Get prepared!!) - Teaching pearls : we want some session on how to teach some design aspects. We want your tip and tricks to teach Smalltalk or OOP. We expect to have several 10 to 15 min sessions aggregated. Open Forum: starting with Smalltalk New this year!! The event will be held at IAE Savoie Mont-Blanc - University of Savoie. This is an opportunity for students and local professionals to discover Smalltalk. A room will be freely accessible and we would like to propose some talks and workshop for Smalltalk beginners. The list of topics includes, but is not limited to the following: - Why Smalltalk ? - Panorama of Smalltalk solutions - Getting started with Smalltalk - Success stories How to submit? -- Submissions due on 15st June 2013 Notification of acceptance will be on done on the fly. More information at http://www.esug.org/conferences/2013 Pay attention: the places are limited so do not wait till the last minute to apply. Prospective presenters should submit a request to stephane.duca...@inria.fr AND USE THE following header [ESUG 2013 Developers]. Please follow the template below the email will be automatically processed! Subject: [ESUG 2013 Developers] + your name First Name: Last Name: Email where you can always be reached: Title: Type: Tutorial/Talk/Teaching Pearl/OpenForum Abstract: Bio: Any presentation not respecting this form will be discarded automatically International Workshop on Smalltalk Technologies http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2013/InternationalWorkshop
Re: [Pharo-project] configuration speed
On Apr 24, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: I checked the issue under 3.0 with the configuration loading speed. Main Performance Issues: Gofer: package-cache always used by Gofer = big shared package-cache is very slow RPackageSet: each method/class change trigger the creation of a new RPackageSet for EACH Monticello working copy What was reported is, that disabling the announcements during configuration loading decreases load time. This is due to the RPackageSet problem. No announcements, no new RPackageSets. For a typical configuration loading CommandShell and Soup + 5 packages I got 518'124 new instances of RPackageSet!! Just that :) There is something wrong. Solutions - Gofer: removing the package-cache from the default repositories seems like a good thing to me. There are 3 tests failing after that, mostly checking if there is a default repository or not. I would add an explicit statement for the package-cache otherwise. RPackageSet: With a basic cache for RPackageSets I cut the load time to a third! It will need some more love when it comes to changing classes, but for now I invalidate it each time an RPackage changes. issue: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10393
Re: [Pharo-project] Rubric questions :)
I will retry in 30 because I see that you announce symbol :) On Apr 24, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi alain better talk not privately :) MCHttpRepository location: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/AlainPlantec/Rubric/main' user: '' password: ''. Why RubParagraphDecorator defines findRegex ^ next findRegex I'm trying to understand the interface of the decorator since all the decorator should have the same to be interchangeable. On self blueTextOnGrayBacgroundNotWrapped when I get the menu and change the font nothng changes. I get a DNU when I execute self withOnlyThePrimarySelection When I type the name of a class in RubMethodEditingExample open I get DNUs. more to come
Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello for Pharo 2 and Pharo 3 ?
we should define the 3.0.x tag in the image. Stef Hi, is there already a #'pharo3.0.x' tag in metacello when we want to have different package version in Pharo 3.0 instead of 2.0 ? I tried spec for: #'pharo3.0.x' version: '0.2' and it didn't work. Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
Re: [Pharo-project] plugin in Nautilus
On Apr 21, 2013, at 4:23 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com wrote: I tried to use groups, but it does not really work for me. Here is my scenario: I take a fresh image, I load Versionner then I load Roassal. I open a code browser, and guess what, I want to see Roassal and Versionner right away, and not have to scroll down. So this is why I said I want load latest :) But I think that the most important, is to be able to particularize the system, and not really to get the best behavior. Cheers, Alexandre On Apr 20, 2013, at 3:32 AM, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: I use a group for that :) And what I would love is a group: latest loaded packages. On Apr 20, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com wrote: Hi! Is there a documentation on how to create a plugin for Nautilus? I would like to create a command 'Hide all packages' in the Package column of Nautilus. Any hint on how to do this? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] plugin in Nautilus
yes! we could try to see. Group are made for this. Maybe we should automatically create a new group when a package is loaded Ben On Apr 21, 2013, at 4:23 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com wrote: I tried to use groups, but it does not really work for me. Here is my scenario: I take a fresh image, I load Versionner then I load Roassal. I open a code browser, and guess what, I want to see Roassal and Versionner right away, and not have to scroll down. But I think that the most important, is to be able to particularize the system, and not really to get the best behavior. Cheers, Alexandre On Apr 20, 2013, at 3:32 AM, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: I use a group for that :) And what I would love is a group: latest loaded packages. On Apr 20, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com wrote: Hi! Is there a documentation on how to create a plugin for Nautilus? I would like to create a command 'Hide all packages' in the Package column of Nautilus. Any hint on how to do this? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] Old bugs fixed by Opal
Did you use https://ci.inria.fr/rmod/job/Opal/ The Opal in the image is a bit out-dated… I did just now, but there, debugging *anything* (even 3 + 4, or using cmd dot) with the Opal Compiler set to default seemed to bring the image into a near catatonic state… Sort of hard to check if the buttons were fixed, with no debugger ever opening. ;) Yes, we committed some changes that might have broken things… I will check. Ok, found it… at least the debugger appears again after a self halt :-) https://ci.inria.fr/rmod/job/Opal/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Opal.zip We should remember to never think it works before the regression tester is successful… Clement wrote a blog post: http://clementbera.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/toward-a-zero-bugs-interpreter-compiler/ nicely written :) Thanks clement this is cool! Push we are getting there.
Re: [Pharo-project] plugin in Nautilus
I use a group for that :) And what I would love is a group: latest loaded packages. On Apr 20, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com wrote: Hi! Is there a documentation on how to create a plugin for Nautilus? I would like to create a command 'Hide all packages' in the Package column of Nautilus. Any hint on how to do this? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] Roassal new algorithms
On Apr 20, 2013, at 8:23 AM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: This visualization is precisely made for hierarchical graphs. That is why the edges are called hierarchical bundled edges. So, yes, you need a hierarchical graph. +1 :) Cheers, Doru On Apr 19, 2013, at 8:57 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com wrote: This is a very cool visualization. There is no reason why we cannot do it in Pharo Alexandre On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Frank Shearar frank.shea...@gmail.com wrote: I've played with these before [1]. They work best with hierarchical names. In other words, in a flat namespace (say, showing class dependencies with just the class name) you end up with a very messy diagram. Let's assume you use . as the name token separator. If you prefixed the names with their packages, say Tools-Debugger.Debugger, you'd get a better graph, where the bundles would be tighter. If you made things more hierarchical still, say with names like Tools.Debugger.Debugger, things would look even better. The deeper the naming hierarchy the fewer fat bundles you get in the image. frank [1] http://mbostock.github.io/d3/talk/2016/bundle.html On 19 April 2013 16:37, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com wrote: Let's have this discussion in the Pharo list. Alexandre Begin forwarded message: From: Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@me.com Subject: [Moose-dev] Re: Roassal new algorithms Date: April 19, 2013 11:25:31 AM GMT-04:00 To: Moose-related development moose-...@iam.unibe.ch Reply-To: Moose-related development moose-...@iam.unibe.ch There are more than simply linear, quadratic and cubic Bezier curves. In fact, as you can have as many control points as you wish, you can have a Bezier curve of any order. Ok But what I was calling RadialBezierCurve was a kind of strategy, I mean I have an abstract class which knows how to compute a curve, but I still have to choose my control points so I was thinking to create different subclasses whose role is to know what are their control points : - The radial one choose its control points within the same radius as its source and its target. Ah ok I wanted to create an ortoVertical and an ortoHorizontal whose control points would have been computed differently, so that we could use Bezier curve for regular tree too. It would be cool to have hierarchical bundles edges in Roassal. A screenshot of what it looks like: Screen Shot 2013-04-19 at 11.24.59 AM.png The technical description: http://www.win.tue.nl/~dholten/papers/bundles_infovis.pdf Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Moose-dev mailing list moose-...@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. -- www.tudorgirba.com What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?
Re: [Pharo-project] Any wishes for Roassal?
We want speed up and less garbage generation (ie do not use collect when do will make it or some stuff like that). May be people here could have a look at it and do a fast code review? Stef Hi! Roassal 2.0 is on the way. We would like to make sure everybody find this release attractive. We are wondering whether you have some particular requirements you would like us to address or some bugs you would like to see fixed. Feel free to speak up! Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] Version 1.39 of Versionner
We should add more information in the configurationOf Stef No idea why happened. I copied the a missing file in the repository Try again, it should work now Alexandre Works now - thanks. I've put a copy of the config into ss3/MetaRepoForPharo20 so one can easily load via Configuration browser from within the 2.0 image. Excellent! Something that would be amazing, is to have a small text panel that appears when you select a configuration, with a short description (or at least some keywords) of what the software about to install is all about. For example, there are only a few projects that I can imagine what they are about. For example, no idea what VistaCursors, VoyageMongo, ScriptManager are about. I know I can easily find the info on the different forges. But my point is that the visibility of these projects is really small. Maybe we can use as a convention a method #readme on each ConfigurationOf ? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] Version 1.39 of Versionner
On Apr 19, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote: Works now - thanks. I've put a copy of the config into ss3/MetaRepoForPharo20 so one can easily load via Configuration browser from within the 2.0 image. Excellent! Something that would be amazing, is to have a small text panel that appears when you select a configuration, with a short description (or at least some keywords) of what the software about to install is all about. For example, there are only a few projects that I can imagine what they are about. For example, no idea what VistaCursors, VoyageMongo, ScriptManager are about. I know I can easily find the info on the different forges. But my point is that the visibility of these projects is really small. Maybe we can use as a convention a method #readme on each ConfigurationOf ? Alexandre I completely agree that more work is needed. I started a new config browser for 3.0 (based on Spec) as a changeset - currently I cant find the issue on this horrible new issue tracker ;) :) Yes me too :) Yes - the config itself would be a good place. One problem: if you want to have a slick UI (fast moving in the list) you would have to load all the configs into the image. Or one needs an updating server job that collects all #readmes and provides a txt/xml file for the config browser client Yes :) Probably the job that will validate the projects that are accepted in a distribution should build this cache. In fact we want to have a job that loads the ConfigurationOf and parse their Pier description and generate a catalog on the web. Right now I'm continuing to write chapters for a future book in pier https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/ but this will be with the same techno Like that we will not have to maintain the catalog in the collaborative book. Stef Bye T.
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo on iOS with Bluetooth keyboard working almost in full.
now I considering ipad :) On Apr 19, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Esteban Lorenzano esteba...@gmail.com wrote: sweet :) On Apr 19, 2013, at 12:00 AM, p...@highoctane.be p...@highoctane.be wrote: I've made some progress on using the external keyboard. Now, it is about usable. Some mappings still missing (discovering a lot of interesting things in the process) but usable. See video (poor camera, but the better one is on the iPad, oops): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MNsUiCc5FQ Phil
Re: [Pharo-project] SS lost project description edits done in december 2012
On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:06 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 April 2013 12:37, Göran Krampe go...@krampe.se wrote: Hi! I moved a lot of my projects to StHub back in december, and then I edited the Project descriptions on SS to show that. But these changes have been lost I now realize? Just put it back on Phriak: http://www.squeaksource.com/Phriak.html Any idea on when/how that happened? when SS crashing, it forgets all metainformation for your project: - description - members etc.. this is one of the reasons why i migrated my active projects to sthub, because i get tired adding members over and over again :) and it is cooler, fresher and faster :) Stef regards, Göran -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] Versionner in 2.0 again
On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:34 PM, Christophe Demarey christophe.dema...@inria.fr wrote: Le 18 avr. 2013 à 05:16, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit : Christophe Demarey wrote I was wondering if it is possible to downgrade an already installed package in a configuration. For now, why don't we just declare a dependency to the correct version of the toolbox? I'm uploading a config to Nabble which does this and seems to work... ConfigurationOfVersionner-SeanDeNigris.101.mcz http://forum.world.st/file/n4682230/ConfigurationOfVersionner-SeanDeNigris.101.mcz I tried with a baseline but it doesn't work (metacello keep the most up to date toolbox). I didn't think to declare the toolbox as package. Your version works fine. Thanks. I pushed it to the Versionner repo. :) So, now Versionner is loadable as any other lib. @Marcus: Yes, if possible, it should be nice to update the toolbox version in the image. sure open a ticket and explain what we should do. Best regards, Christophe.
Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello configuration conventions
Dale I was discussing with christophe yesterday and what would be good in metacello is to be able to have in one version of the configurationOf all the information about previous heads stable versions because right now to get this information we need to load previous versions until we see that the stable or development deifnitino changes. I will start to add to my configurations previousVersions ^ #((stable 20 #(1.0 1.2 1.3)) (stable 1.4 #(1.0 )) so that we can perform regression testing and not just test the latest stable version. Stef - Original Message - | From: Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 3:19:57 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello configuration conventions | | I liked ruby-gems approach more than the one in Metacello. You usually | specify | a major version (as under linux) for your dependency. That means the | dependency | might evolve a bit, typically for bugfixes, without you having to update | the configuration manually. | | http://docs.rubygems.org/read/chapter/16 for me is what I'd like to see. | | As you say, #stable and #development are mostly for humans. Cami, I did look at the way ruby-gems worked pretty early on in Metacello development and I've arranged things such that I should be able to add the ability to specify ranges of versions, but the whole mechanics of the ruby-gem universe is different than the smalltalk universe so I'm not sure that Metacello would give you the behavior you are looking for even I did allow version ranges to be specified ... I'd be willing to spend time working through use cases with you to see if there would be benefit for enabling that feature... Dale
Re: [Pharo-project] How to get the AST Node for a Context
Sure, typical refactoring process. Code is convoluted and hard to follow, so you first document and explicit most obscure steps. In a second time, you realize how simpler it could be... Pharo is quite fast and still accelerating these days, so I understand the satisfecit, it's already huge progress. My unsatisfied nature just tell to not stop in the middle of the bridge, and to not let un-necessarily complex code, even if well commented :) do not worry for that we have a long list of tasks for the compiler and even more for other components. :) Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] How to get the AST Node for a Context
On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 April 2013 19:17, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, typical refactoring process. Code is convoluted and hard to follow, so you first document and explicit most obscure steps. In a second time, you realize how simpler it could be... Pharo is quite fast and still accelerating these days, so I understand the satisfecit, it's already huge progress. My unsatisfied nature just tell to not stop in the middle of the bridge, and to not let un-necessarily complex code, even if well commented :) Opal is there we all can start contributing. I, for instance, have plans for replacing parsing.. to make modular parser encoder Yes :) I would like to have a compilationContext instead of this ugly full of parameter methods and …. I would like to be able to specify an environment (class binding + literal binding) as input and an environment as output so that we can bootstrap the compiler nicely and do a lot fun stuff. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Argument names created by Debugger
a bit smarter system does not hurt. Stef On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: I tweaked the code because in my most common case, I don't care that it's e.g. aByteString, but only that it's aString: (argument isKindOf: String) ifTrue: [ ^ 'aString' ]. (argument isKindOf: Collection) ifTrue: [ ^ 'aCollection' ]. (argument isKindOf: Integer) ifTrue: [ ^ 'anInteger' ]. Am I the only one, or would this be useful for everyone? lmk and I'll prepare a slice... - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Argument-names-created-by-Debugger-tp4682387.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] [Athens] A new wave of impressionism
:) This is cool that you push athens. Because this is really important for Pharo. Stef Not really impressive (that's why it called new wave) Here is results of 2 days of preparing/implementing and polishing a quadric bezier curve approximation algorithm by series of lines. The red pill.. err fill is polygon consisting purely from lines, the white outline is same quadric bezier, but drawn directly by cairo with stroke width = 5. Cubic bezier , then elliptical arc and then generic parametric functions ahead! :) There is two reasons why i implementing highly inefficient (because of boxed floats) path flattener: - some path segments are not supported by cairo, therefore i am forced to approximate it with something else (and something else is lines ;) - having path geometry turned into silly polygon, there is very easy algorithm to tell if given point inside or outside of polygon so, potentially, this will give use following: - being able to use any kind of curves as path segments (well, it could be a bit slow, but it is up to you, right?) e.g. something like: builder lineTo: 50@50; parametricCurve: [:t | t sin * t squared ] tMin: 0 tMax: 10 to: 20@30 - being able to detect whether mouse hovers over shape or not :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. Screen Shot 2013-04-18 at 10.43.07 PM.png
Re: [Pharo-project] the fun theory
excellent! Yes we should make pharo a fun theory :) Stef On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Johan Brichau jo...@inceptive.be wrote: When I saw this website, I immediately thought about Pharo http://www.thefuntheory.com This site is dedicated to the thought that something as simple as fun is the easiest way to change people’s behaviour for the better. Keep having fun! Johan
Re: [Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20599
On Apr 17, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote: On 17 Apr 2013, at 13:06, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote: 20599 - 10297 Integrate 2.0: 10295 Zinc Update April 16th https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10297 Hey Marcus, that is even cooler. I know it is a lot of manual manipulation work, so thanks again. If I can make this process easier, please let me know. I don't know what the policy is, but one solution could be to use ConfigurationOfZincHTTPComponents. One of these days we will get there :) Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
Re: [Pharo-project] [Sprint] Sprint Lille May 3rd
we will do one for the next one. Now we need to kill bugs like mad. On Apr 17, 2013, at 5:02 PM, p...@highoctane.be wrote: Why not make a doodle for this? 2013/4/17 Benjamin benjamin.vanryseghem.ph...@gmail.com cool :) Ben On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: Marcus Denker-4 wrote We are planning a sprint the 3rd of May: I want to join again via IRC/skype from NYC. It worked out well last time... - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Sprint-Sprint-Lille-May-3rd-tp4682097p4682106.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] How to get the AST Node for a Context
On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:29 PM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: I really really like this :) very simple yet powerful! Yes this will massively simplify the debugger :) So we will be able to get a debugger really working without needing an magician to fix its bugs. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] How to get the AST Node for a Context
I should say that I LOVVVE the comments in the method. Yes Yes Yes. Stef Yes, just the AST with Semantic Analysis information (Scope and Semantic Variables), plus bytecodelevel IR that provides the bridge to the low-level pc (bytecode mapping) data… e.g. to get the highlight in the debugger, this is now just this in DebuggerMethodMapOpal: rangeForPC: aPC contextIsActiveContext: contextIsActive return the debug highlight for aPC | pc | When on the top of the stack the pc is pointing to right instruction, but deeper in the stack the pc was already advanced one bytecode, so we need to go back this one bytecode, which can consist of multiple bytes. But on IR, we record the *last* bytecode offset as the offset of the IR instruction, which means we can just go back one pc := contextIsActive ifTrue: [aPC] ifFalse: [aPC - 1]. ^(methodNode ir instructionForPC: pc) sourceNode debugHighlightRange more helper methods will simplify this even more, e.g. we should have a method on RBMethodNode like #nodeForPC: rangeForPC: aPC contextIsActiveContext: contextIsActive return the debug highlight for aPC | pc | When on the top of the stack the pc is pointing to right instruction, but deeper in the stack the pc was already advanced one bytecode, so we need to go back this one bytecode, which can consist of multiple bytes. But on IR, we record the *last* bytecode offset as the offset of the IR instruction, which means we can just go back one pc := contextIsActive ifTrue: [aPC] ifFalse: [aPC - 1]. ^(methodNode nodeForPC: pc) debugHighlightRange And this method one then can just implement on MethodContext itself. (Caching is handled by ASTCache). Marcus
Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 10219: Completion: enter on accept awkwardness
add a bug entry and tag it so that we simply do not forget. Stef On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:25 AM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: Johan Brichau-2 wrote fwiw, I changed the implementation of NECController... NECController-Changes.cs (5K) lt;http://forum.world.st/attachment/4679910/0/NECController-Changes.csgt; I think at minimum Johan's change should be integrated immediately and backported to 2.0. I simply can not use enterToAccept, and without it now it's currently impossible to complete with common prefix matching enabled. Are there any objections to the last suggested set of default preferences? If not, maybe those should be included as well - but not worth holding up Johan's change, which is essential. - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Issue-10219-Completion-enter-on-accept-awkwardness-tp4679488p4682231.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] How to browse a selected method in code viewer
On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:35 PM, kilon theki...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Dammien Alt+m is the implementors, and as i said implementors works for me, however alt+b which is for browsing does nothing. strange and how can we know in which class it is? Browse on a selector = should be equivalent to implementors. similarly implementor on a class = browse We lost this cross binding in 20. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] [regression reporter]regression occurred
On Apr 16, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote: aaah I love to see a response to that :P my vicious plan to spam the pharo list when there are new tests failing seems to work :) Hehehe yes we will conquer the world :)
Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello configuration conventions
Christophe I agree with you As a general purpose reflexion on dependencies conventions, I would say: If you are in development mode, it makes sense to rely on latest versions of dependencies (bleeding edge) to be able to detect integration problems as soon as possible. If you are in a release mode, you should ensure that your code can run at least on fixed dependencies versions (at the best, specify a range of versions you can use with possibly no upper limit if your dependencies ensure backward compatibility). You need reproducible loading of your tool/lib. in my opinion, you shouldn't use #stable for release version as the only thing it ensure (if well tested) is that you will not have a broken version of the dependency. The stable version of your dependency will evolve and then the configuration of your release too. At a time, your version will not be usable at all because of that. Because even if you milestone against a major version, what you mean is that the package may change (and still work on 20 for example, but be incompatible with your software). I will write something in the metacello chapter and see what I wrote on symbolic version. so I would specify a dependency with a versionString for release versions of your lib/tool. It ensures a minimum version. So I wonder when we should use stable. Versionner will solve all these points for us :) Stef Regards, Christophe. Le 16 avr. 2013 à 11:02, Frank Shearar a écrit : On 16 April 2013 09:53, Stephan Eggermont step...@stack.nl wrote: Hi, While working with Diego on some configurations, we noticed two different styles of describing the latest non-baseline versions. In one, the versionString version of a dependency is used. That is a defensive strategy, where you want to specify the exact version that will be loaded (and has been tested). In the other the #stable version is used. That is an optimistic strategy. This is much less brittle (but might suddenly not work anymore). Seaside uses defensive/mixed, while Magritte uses optimistic Based on what criteria should I choose which one to use (in a Pharo context)? I'd argue that since you're declaring that a certain set of versions of packages work together, you should _always_ use explicit versions. The optimistic strategy leaves you vulnerable to third parties making seemingly innocuous changes that break your code. (I've been bitten by this, by making such an apparently innocuous change.) frank Stephan Diego
