[Phono-L] Not a Fan of PayPal
I too have dealt with a couple of similar situations where the poor packing was to blame for a partial or total loss of the shipped item. The shipper will never pay in such a situation and the sellers always claim it was not their fault. I've had machines placed in a totally empty box with very little or even no packing and the seller says it wasn't their fault. Money, on my part as the buyer, has always been lost in such cases. In one such case I didn't even get the machine back. USPS claimed they sent it back to the seller and the seller claimed they never got it. Neither party would take any responsibility. Guess who did "get it" in this situation??? Oh well just the "fun" of EBAY I guess. Enough said, George - Original Message - From: Ken Danckaert To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Not a Fan of PayPal I had just that happen on a music box I bought in England. I paid for shipping and insurance. It was poorly packed. So much so, that the bedplate casting was broken in three places, every tooth on the combs was broken and the case was demolished. The seller accepted no responsibility and said it was mine the moment he got my money. The shipper would not pay on the insurance nor would the seller pay up. I hounded him for two years on the internet whenever he tried to sell anything. His reputation was in the mud. Eventually, he gave me back my money. I believe there are a lot of people like him out there. Ken D. Jim Nichol wrote: > I find it pretty amazing that any decent person would sell something > that arrived broken, and keep the buyer's money. What goes through > the mind of a person like that? Surely he can't be thinking the buyer > is to blame, or that it is the buyer's job to go after the shipper > (which can't be done). > > Jim Nichol > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/686 - Release Date: 2/14/2007 7:54 AM
[Phono-L] Not a Fan of PayPal
Take the seller to court, or lump it. Those are now the choices. Not pleasant but that is it. You could trash their reputation which sometimes proves effective though. __Name?_ Dealing with the US Post office relating to insurance is tricky and fraught with problems. With the post office you are at the whim of the local post master. In a previous post there was a comment regarding payPal canceling both the buyers and sellers account. The reason for that action is reasonably clear after a read of the applicable sections of the TOS. The seller refused to return the buyers money and had no money in his accounts to allow PayPal to cover this, that will get your account closed. The buyer back charged the credit card payment and this sticks PayPal with the bill. This is also a clear violation of the TOS, account closed. Now, one last time. If you are purchasing a valuable item from a seller who you do not personally know then obtain a written commitment that the seller will ship the item by REGISTERED mail only. You will receive your item intact even if the seller packs it in a used paper grocery bag. That is the USPS priority mail rate and $7.35 additional, extra insurance will increase this additional fee. I might be off a dollar or so on the $7.35 but it is close. If you accept anything else for shipping you can have these little problems. On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:19:30 -0500, George wrote: >I too have dealt with a couple of similar situations where the poor packing >was to blame for a partial or total loss of the shipped item. The shipper will never pay in such a situation and the sellers always claim it was not their fault. I've had machines placed in a totally empty box with very little or even no packing and the seller says it wasn't their fault. Money, on my part as the buyer, has always been lost in such cases. In one such case I didn't even get the machine back. USPS claimed they sent it back to the seller and the seller claimed they never got it. Neither party would take any responsibility. Guess who did "get it" in this situation??? >Oh well just the "fun" of EBAY I guess. >Enough said, >George
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
One of the reasons ( of many ) I don't buy phonographs on eBay is it breaks my heart to hear of yet another phonograph lost to shipping. I can't afford to take that hit.I'm old school. Go to shows, go to Union. Hey it is fun to meet others. At shows like Union if you do it right you might just haggle a great deal instead of paying more than everybody else is willing to bid. Just a thought. BTW I understand that not everyone can go to Union ( like me, both cases ) or live in the outback were there are few antiques. I'm just advocating to keep other mediums alive. Mike From esrobe...@hotmail.com Thu Feb 15 10:55:15 2007 From: esrobe...@hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Thu Feb 15 10:55:36 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] PayPal/eBay/online trading saftey: tips and tricks - 1st revision References: <20070215165649.3aaa1b3...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Message-ID: BEFORE the auction closes: Get to know your seller as best you can with what information you can get. If the person has good spelling, grammar, and punctuation, they are not only intelligent, but conscientious about details. If they are hurried, borderline illiterate, snippy or just plain unsociable, that will show in their packing as well. Communicate with them about what they're into -- estate sales of anything and everything, or an emphasis on phonographs? Ask specific questions about the item that you may already know the answer to as a test of their knowledge, sociability, and communication skills. It can be done with a few simple sentences, and will tell you volumes about who you're dealing with. See "Seller's Other Items" to get an idea of what their general merchandise is. Go through their feedback and check the items they've recently sold as well. While in the feedback, look for negatives and see what kind of responses they offer in defense. Avoid sellers who respond hatefully -- these people will not help you if there's a problem. See what kind of feedback they leave for others. Take notice of how many items they sell a week, or a month, to get an idea of what kind of seller you're dealing with. This will tell you if they know the first thing about phonographs (and how to pack them) or not. After you've created a rapport, be specific about exact packing instructions. Make sure they know your requests won't be difficult, but they must be followed to avoid damage in shipping. Relate your negative experiences and try to give them an idea of just how valuable and historic the item really is. BEFORE or AFTER the auction closes: If you are purchasing a valuable item from a seller who you do not personally know, then obtain a written commitment that the seller will ship the item by REGISTERED mail only. You will receive your item intact even if the seller packs it in a used paper grocery bag. The cost is the USPS Priority Mail rate plus $7.35 additional (extra insurance will increase this additional fee as well). IF TRYING TO RESOLVE A PROBLEM WITH A SHIPPER OR PAYPAL/EBAY: Sometimes it helps to write a letter to the President or someone very high in the company. Send it registered mail to make sure that someone signs for it, which makes them feel accountable for at least directing your problem to someone who could fix it. It's also helpful to write to the second one down from the top -- they don't get as much complaint mail as the President, so they have more time to delegate the resolution of the problem to someone, and they may even be flattered to get some mail! That's all the tips we've seen from this PayPal discussion so far... any others you all would like to add? Best, Robert
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
Some might disagree but I now get most of what I sell now professionally packaged (pack and send) Yes it might add $20-30 to postage but I'm of the belief that it is probably just as imporant as insurance and if you have to make a claim on your insurance just whip out the packing receipt and then there is really little question that it is well packed. I only do this for delicate and/or more expensive items. Cheers, Mario - Original Message - From: "Mike Stitt" To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:35 AM Subject: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs > One of the reasons ( of many ) I don't buy phonographs on eBay is it > breaks my heart to hear of yet another phonograph lost to shipping. I > can't afford to take that hit.I'm old school. Go to shows, go to Union. > Hey it is fun to meet others. At shows like Union if you do it right you > might just haggle a great deal instead of paying more than everybody else > is willing to bid. Just a thought. BTW I understand that not everyone can > go to Union ( like me, both cases ) or live in the outback were there are > few antiques. I'm just advocating to keep other mediums alive. > > Mike > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I take it to a packaging store and they take care of everything. Sure it costs more but I think most buyers would prefer that as well. I have shipped many wood horn machines and have never lost one yet. Union is great but they do not offer packaging services at the show, so if you fly in, you better know somebody who will bring it back for you. - Original Message - From: "Mario Frazzetto" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs > Some might disagree but I now get most of what I sell now professionally > packaged (pack and send) Yes it might add $20-30 to postage but I'm of the > belief that it is probably just as imporant as insurance and if you have > to make a claim on your insurance just whip out the packing receipt and > then there is really little question that it is well packed. I only do > this for delicate and/or more expensive items. > > Cheers, > Mario > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Mike Stitt" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:35 AM > Subject: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs > > >> One of the reasons ( of many ) I don't buy phonographs on eBay is it >> breaks my heart to hear of yet another phonograph lost to shipping. I >> can't afford to take that hit.I'm old school. Go to shows, go to Union. >> Hey it is fun to meet others. At shows like Union if you do it right you >> might just haggle a great deal instead of paying more than everybody else >> is willing to bid. Just a thought. BTW I understand that not everyone can >> go to Union ( like me, both cases ) or live in the outback were there are >> few antiques. I'm just advocating to keep other mediums alive. >> >> Mike >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
More great points. I definitely agree with professional packers for expensive, delicate items if it keeps UPS, et. al, from blaming poor packing -- especially if the packers offer their own insurance and/or a guarantee, which they'd almost have to. $50 extra ain't much compared to saving a $5000 machine! - Original Message - From: "Albert" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs > I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I take it to a packaging store and > they take care of everything. Sure it costs more but I think most buyers > would prefer that as well. I have shipped many wood horn machines and > have never lost one yet. Union is great but they do not offer packaging > services at the show, so if you fly in, you better know somebody who will > bring it back for you. > - Original Message - > From: "Mario Frazzetto" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:24 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs > > >> Some might disagree but I now get most of what I sell now professionally >> packaged (pack and send) Yes it might add $20-30 to postage but I'm of >> the belief that it is probably just as imporant as insurance and if you >> have to make a claim on your insurance just whip out the packing receipt >> and then there is really little question that it is well packed. I only >> do this for delicate and/or more expensive items. >> >> Cheers, >> Mario
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
OK, Here is my opinion on the "packaging store" it is real simple, a basic waste of mony. I have yet to see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you expect a low buck clerk to have any idea on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance that the final carrier will pay up if its trashed though. OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot less. Now I was charged $30.00 to "professionally" package the machine. It fits into a 19" rack and weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24" deep and 7" high. This is what showed up on the door step. One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 complete turns of bubble wrap and the remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some miracle, after picking peanuts out of the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting handles was bent about 45 degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped repeatedly as there were no corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For that I paid $30.00 On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:17:40 -0800, Albert wrote: >I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I take it to a packaging store and >they take care of everything. Sure it costs more but I think most buyers >would prefer that as well. I have shipped many wood horn machines and have >never lost one yet. Union is great but they do not offer packaging services >at the show, so if you fly in, you better know somebody who will bring it >back for you.
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
Ouch. But Rich, did you see or get a receipt for the 'professional' packing? Do you know what company you could've blamed for it (and who we should avoid)? Are you positive the seller didn't just pocket the money? I've only used pro-packers a couple of times, always as a sender, never a receiver... I sent two very costly electric guitars north to get them set up and outfitted with some special parts, and I watched the person at Mailboxes, Etc wrap both guitar cases in plastic wrap to keep them tight together, then she wrapped that with 2 layers of large bubble wrap, put that assembly into a box, put that box into a larger box stuffed tightly with peanuts, sealed it up, and off it went. Everything came out great. My other experiences went pretty much like that one did, once with very heavy yet very delicate hifi components costing nearly $10k. Two things -- one, I'd make sure the seller got me a receipt, a number, or something they could back up the claim of using a professional packer with. I'd tell them before I ever sent payment that they would need to provide proof and tell me who they used. I'd call the place they used and confirm it with them; it's in their sales records, and most places pack it and mail it out themselves, so they'd know. And two, a point I meant to include in the trips/tricks compendium (heh heh) -- every time I get a box that's clearly marked FRAGILE! in big letters on every side of the box, it's fine. Every time I get a box without FRAGILE! on it, the box has no shape left to it by the time I get it. The last thing I always request in my "here's how to pack that thing you're about to send to me" email is for the seller to get a Sharpie and write FRAGILE! in BIG letters at least once on every side of the box. If I want to be an ass to the USPS, etc., I have them write HIGHLY INSURED!! all over it, too. That's one they take pretty seriously, cuz that's gonna cost their bosses money if something happens to it (or so they'll be inclined to think). I also find that things like "GLASS!!", "DO NOT DROP!", and the actual contents, like "ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH RECORDS!" help out, too. I got the hint to write what's in the box on the sides from the father of a good friend who's now a retired postal worker. He said the package stops being just another anonymous box if what's inside is written on the outside. It can impart a sense of pride to a mail carrier if s/he knows why that package is so valuable. Mind you, this man didn't work for UPS or FedEx, both of which may have a very different vibe for employees. At the end of the day, they're (we're) all human, and where there's human, there's error. Best, Robert - Original Message - From: "Rich" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs > OK, Here is my opinion on the "packaging store" it is real simple, a > basic waste of mony. I have yet to > see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you expect a low > buck clerk to have any idea > on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance that > the final carrier will pay up if its > trashed though. > > OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. > I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional grade > S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- > S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame was > $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot > less. Now I was charged $30.00 to "professionally" package the machine. > It fits into a 19" rack and > weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24" deep and 7" high. This is what > showed up on the door step. > One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 complete > turns of bubble wrap and the > remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some > miracle, after picking peanuts out of > the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting handles > was bent about 45 > degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped > repeatedly as there were no > corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For that I > paid $30.00.
[Phono-L] Shipping phonographs-Herzog, NCR
My packaging store story is another reason not to rest easy when using professional pack-ship places. I was having a mahogany Herzog cylinder phonograph cabinet shipped, which was taken to a store to be packed. This is one of the models with the interleaving shelves and rounded front (710). When it arrived, I knew right away there would be trouble. The moment I saw it come off the truck, I could see that it had been dropped, and the top of the carton was accordioned badly, indicating that it had taken a long drop on its head. This was supposed to have been "triple boxed", with extra cardboard at the bottom to offer some protection to the bun feet. The only "triple" in the packing that the "shipping carton" had been pieced together from three sections of recycled boxes, all of them soft as could be, and without a rigid or double wall panel in the bunch. The packing inside was relatively loose, and there was no inner box, let alone two. To add insult to injury, there was a gaping hole in the side of the shabby carton, with peanuts and clear tape oozing from it and, you guessed it, the side of the cabinet got gouged. If it had been packed as represented, it would have at least had a chance to escape that damage. Of course, the primary instruction to put additional protection at the bottom was completely ignored. They had thrown three left over box flaps on top before sealing it, and that was it. I was able to get a refund from the seller on the packing & shipping, for which I had been charged $380.00. But I have to be content to live with the shipping damage or refinish it. The seller was also helpful in coaching me on the materials used in the refinish job that had been done on it prior to shipping, and when life settles down enough to free up the time, I plan on redoing the whole cabinet. What should have been a joyful moment was made a miserable disappointment. My only other experiences with using a professional pack-ship company were an antique lamp with shade shipped separately (different shipper, same shoddy materials; badly damaged shade), and a relatively small but heavy brass National cash register (model 317), which had been packed with crumpled NEWSPAPER. The only thoughtfulness in that packing job was that they had (fortunately) removed the two glass panels that form the top compartment and taped them to the inner curve where the front panel meets the upper part (with tape that left gooey adhesive embedded in the fine brasswork. It arrived with a bent over upper side panel (the part that goes up alongside the glass). Fortunately, I was able to straighten the metal without cracking it, and consider myself to have been extremely lucky to do so. The premium above and beyond the actual cost of shipping for this service was $60.00. I'm sure that there must be reputable pack-ship companies out there but unless you KNOW that a particular company is being used and have seen that they use quality materials consistently, I believe that you're taking your chances much the same as dealing with any unknown party. Andy Baron On Feb 15, 2007, at 1:52 PM, Rich wrote: > OK, Here is my opinion on the "packaging store" it is real simple, > a basic waste of mony. I have yet to > see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you > expect a low buck clerk to have any idea > on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance > that the final carrier will pay up if its > trashed though. > > OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. > I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional > grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- > S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame > was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot > less. Now I was charged $30.00 to "professionally" package the > machine. It fits into a 19" rack and > weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24" deep and 7" high. This is > what showed up on the door step. > One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 > complete turns of bubble wrap and the > remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some > miracle, after picking peanuts out of > the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting > handles was bent about 45 > degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped > repeatedly as there were no > corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For > that I paid $30.00 > > > On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:17:40 -0800, Albert wrote: > >> I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I take it to a packaging >> store and >> they take care of everything. Sure it costs more but I think most >> buyers >> would prefer that as well. I have shipped many wood horn machines >> and have >> never lost one yet. Union is great but they do not offer >> packaging services >> at the show, so if you
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
The problem you have is that when the seller contracts the "professional" packing he gets the rcpt and you still do not have a lot of recourse if the seller does not play. I was lucky, nothing broke. The "professional' packing does at least insure that UPS /FedEx will honor the claim. The USPS is another animal. Notice that professional is in quotes. look the term up in any dictionary and you will see why. Most people now equate the word Professional with quality work. The dictionary will clear up this little misconception. There are the UPS and UPS / FedEx shipping and packing stores which might do a decent job but my approach is that if it is an antique and in exceptional condition then i will go and pick it up unless I talk with the seller on the phone or in person. If I can do none of these then I do not bid / buy. There are many JVC BR-S822DXU machines so even if it got trashed I could obtain another. Antiques is a different proposition all together. I will not let anybody pack items for shipping other than myself. I do not trust the high school drop out in the back room of the pack and ship to get it right. They have never heard of spray in place foam, shrink wrap, or air pillows. All they know is peanuts. You can forget disassemble and separate boxes. I think UPS tells you your packing job must withstand the 6 foot drop test without damage. That is a tough test If you take the item to the packing store then you can supervise the packing. HiFi electronics, musical instruments and most modern items they do fine with. The fun starts when you show up with the Edison class M that you want to ship. They do not have a clue as to what it is let alone how to pack it. I have seen the mechanism of Edison homes blasted through the side of an inner cardboard box and dents on the inside of the outer box, and it was very well packed. I have seen the output transformer mounting screws sheared off in the 1920s style battery radios, box looked perfect. If your UPS package is going to travel through the Chicago package transfer point I would recommend prayer and burnt offerings. This is why I insist on registered mail or go after it unless it is a recent or current production item. The seller of the tape machine did use a "professional" pack and ship place, they were prowd enough of their work to install a nice label on the box. Rich On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:55:10 -0600, Robert Wright wrote: >Ouch. But Rich, did you see or get a receipt for the 'professional' >packing? Do you know what company you could've blamed for it (and who we >should avoid)? Are you positive the seller didn't just pocket the money? >I've only used pro-packers a couple of times, always as a sender, never a >receiver... I sent two very costly electric guitars north to get them set >up and outfitted with some special parts, and I watched the person at >Mailboxes, Etc wrap both guitar cases in plastic wrap to keep them tight >together, then she wrapped that with 2 layers of large bubble wrap, put that >assembly into a box, put that box into a larger box stuffed tightly with >peanuts, sealed it up, and off it went. Everything came out great. My >other experiences went pretty much like that one did, once with very heavy >yet very delicate hifi components costing nearly $10k. >Two things -- one, I'd make sure the seller got me a receipt, a number, or >something they could back up the claim of using a professional packer with. >I'd tell them before I ever sent payment that they would need to provide >proof and tell me who they used. I'd call the place they used and confirm >it with them; it's in their sales records, and most places pack it and mail >it out themselves, so they'd know. >And two, a point I meant to include in the trips/tricks compendium (heh >heh) -- every time I get a box that's clearly marked FRAGILE! in big letters >on every side of the box, it's fine. Every time I get a box without >FRAGILE! on it, the box has no shape left to it by the time I get it. The >last thing I always request in my "here's how to pack that thing you're >about to send to me" email is for the seller to get a Sharpie and write >FRAGILE! in BIG letters at least once on every side of the box. If I want >to be an ass to the USPS, etc., I have them write HIGHLY INSURED!! all over >it, too. That's one they take pretty seriously, cuz that's gonna cost their >bosses money if something happens to it (or so they'll be inclined to >think). I also find that things like "GLASS!!", "DO NOT DROP!", and the >actual contents, like "ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH RECORDS!" help out, too. >I got the hint to write what's in the box on the sides from the father of a >good friend who's now a retired postal worker. He said the package stops >being just another anonymous box if what's inside is written on the outside. >It can impart a sense of pride to a mail carrier if s/he kno
[Phono-L] Shipping phonographs-Herzog, NCR
You should look at it this way, You have helped take some idiot off of the street and provide them with a job. That is what your money went for as it definitely did not go for a proper packing job, even when instructions were provided. If you stand there and watch them , it goes better. Rich On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:27:30 -0700, Andrew Baron wrote: >My packaging store story is another reason not to rest easy when >using professional pack-ship places. >I was having a mahogany Herzog cylinder phonograph cabinet shipped, >which was taken to a store to be packed. This is one of the models >with the interleaving shelves and rounded front (710). When it >arrived, I knew right away there would be trouble. The moment I saw >it come off the truck, I could see that it had been dropped, and the >top of the carton was accordioned badly, indicating that it had taken >a long drop on its head. This was supposed to have been "triple >boxed", with extra cardboard at the bottom to offer some protection >to the bun feet. The only "triple" in the packing that the "shipping >carton" had been pieced together from three sections of recycled >boxes, all of them soft as could be, and without a rigid or double >wall panel in the bunch. The packing inside was relatively loose, >and there was no inner box, let alone two. To add insult to injury, >there was a gaping hole in the side of the shabby carton, with >peanuts and clear tape oozing from it and, you guessed it, the side >of the cabinet got gouged. If it had been packed as represented, it >would have at least had a chance to escape that damage. Of course, >the primary instruction to put additional protection at the bottom >was completely ignored. They had thrown three left over box flaps on >top before sealing it, and that was it. >I was able to get a refund from the seller on the packing & shipping, >for which I had been charged $380.00. But I have to be content to >live with the shipping damage or refinish it. The seller was also >helpful in coaching me on the materials used in the refinish job that >had been done on it prior to shipping, and when life settles down >enough to free up the time, I plan on redoing the whole cabinet. >What should have been a joyful moment was made a miserable >disappointment. >My only other experiences with using a professional pack-ship company >were an antique lamp with shade shipped separately (different >shipper, same shoddy materials; badly damaged shade), and a >relatively small but heavy brass National cash register (model 317), >which had been packed with crumpled NEWSPAPER. The only >thoughtfulness in that packing job was that they had (fortunately) >removed the two glass panels that form the top compartment and taped >them to the inner curve where the front panel meets the upper part >(with tape that left gooey adhesive embedded in the fine brasswork. >It arrived with a bent over upper side panel (the part that goes up >alongside the glass). Fortunately, I was able to straighten the >metal without cracking it, and consider myself to have been extremely >lucky to do so. The premium above and beyond the actual cost of >shipping for this service was $60.00. >I'm sure that there must be reputable pack-ship companies out there >but unless you KNOW that a particular company is being used and have >seen that they use quality materials consistently, I believe that >you're taking your chances much the same as dealing with any unknown >party. >Andy Baron >On Feb 15, 2007, at 1:52 PM, Rich wrote: >> OK, Here is my opinion on the "packaging store" it is real simple, >> a basic waste of mony. I have yet to >> see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you >> expect a low buck clerk to have any idea >> on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance >> that the final carrier will pay up if its >> trashed though. >> >> OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. >> I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional >> grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- >> S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame >> was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot >> less. Now I was charged $30.00 to "professionally" package the >> machine. It fits into a 19" rack and >> weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24" deep and 7" high. This is >> what showed up on the door step. >> One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 >> complete turns of bubble wrap and the >> remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some >> miracle, after picking peanuts out of >> the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting >> handles was bent about 45 >> degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped >> repeatedly as there were no >> corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For >>
[Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S.
Hello all ~ It occurred to me that it's probably relevant to mention that NONE of the items I mentioned in my last posting about shipping damage were procured from eBay sellers or any other on-line auctions. I say this to separate the shipping issue from the eBay issues that get discussed here from time to time. The Herzog cabinet was purchased from an established and reputable dealer, the lamp was a family heirloom being shipped to me from a close family member in a distant state and the antique cash register was from an antique store in Florida that I have done repairs and trades with since I was a young teen. Andy Baron From rich-m...@octoxol.com Thu Feb 15 15:34:02 2007 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Thu Feb 15 15:34:29 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070215233413.d7c68b4...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> I would hazard a guess that the eBay sellers / shippers do an overall better job than the independent dealers who do not sell on eBay. Shipping any antique is an accident looking for a place to happen. Rich On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:02:22 -0700, Andrew Baron wrote: >Hello all ~ >It occurred to me that it's probably relevant to mention that NONE of >the items I mentioned in my last posting about shipping damage were >procured from eBay sellers or any other on-line auctions. I say >this to separate the shipping issue from the eBay issues that get >discussed here from time to time. >The Herzog cabinet was purchased from an established and reputable >dealer, the lamp was a family heirloom being shipped to me from a >close family member in a distant state and the antique cash register >was from an antique store in Florida that I have done repairs and >trades with since I was a young teen. >Andy Baron >___ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Shipping phonographs-Herzog, NCR
Pack and Send the company I use is a franchise and the owner of the store is who packs the phonographs etc... for me. I stand there while things are being packed too and watch as the item goes into the box. Cheers, Mario > Andrew Baron wrote: > > My packaging store story is another reason not to rest easy when > using professional pack-ship places. > > I was having a mahogany Herzog cylinder phonograph cabinet shipped, > which was taken to a store to be packed. This is one of the models > with the interleaving shelves and rounded front (710). When it > arrived, I knew right away there would be trouble. The moment I saw > it come off the truck, I could see that it had been dropped, and the > top of the carton was accordioned badly, indicating that it had taken > a long drop on its head. This was supposed to have been "triple > boxed", with extra cardboard at the bottom to offer some protection > to the bun feet. The only "triple" in the packing that the "shipping > carton" had been pieced together from three sections of recycled > boxes, all of them soft as could be, and without a rigid or double > wall panel in the bunch. The packing inside was relatively loose, > and there was no inner box, let alone two. To add insult to injury, > there was a gaping hole in the side of the shabby carton, with > peanuts and clear tape oozing from it and, you guessed it, the side > of the cabinet got gouged. If it had been packed as represented, it > would have at least had a chance to escape that damage. Of course, > the primary instruction to put additional protection at the bottom > was completely ignored. They had thrown three left over box flaps on > top before sealing it, and that was it. > > I was able to get a refund from the seller on the packing & shipping, > for which I had been charged $380.00. But I have to be content to > live with the shipping damage or refinish it. The seller was also > helpful in coaching me on the materials used in the refinish job that > had been done on it prior to shipping, and when life settles down > enough to free up the time, I plan on redoing the whole cabinet. > What should have been a joyful moment was made a miserable > disappointment. > > My only other experiences with using a professional pack-ship company > were an antique lamp with shade shipped separately (different > shipper, same shoddy materials; badly damaged shade), and a > relatively small but heavy brass National cash register (model 317), > which had been packed with crumpled NEWSPAPER. The only > thoughtfulness in that packing job was that they had (fortunately) > removed the two glass panels that form the top compartment and taped > them to the inner curve where the front panel meets the upper part > (with tape that left gooey adhesive embedded in the fine brasswork. > It arrived with a bent over upper side panel (the part that goes up > alongside the glass). Fortunately, I was able to straighten the > metal without cracking it, and consider myself to have been extremely > lucky to do so. The premium above and beyond the actual cost of > shipping for this service was $60.00. > > I'm sure that there must be reputable pack-ship companies out there > but unless you KNOW that a particular company is being used and have > seen that they use quality materials consistently, I believe that > you're taking your chances much the same as dealing with any unknown > party. > > Andy Baron > > > On Feb 15, 2007, at 1:52 PM, Rich wrote: > > > OK, Here is my opinion on the "packaging store" it is real simple, > > a basic waste of mony. I have yet to > > see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you > > expect a low buck clerk to have any idea > > on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance > > that the final carrier will pay up if its > > trashed though. > > > > OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. > > I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional > > grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- > > S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame > > was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot > > less. Now I was charged $30.00 to "professionally" package the > > machine. It fits into a 19" rack and > > weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24" deep and 7" high. This is > > what showed up on the door step. > > One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 > > complete turns of bubble wrap and the > > remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some > > miracle, after picking peanuts out of > > the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting > > handles was bent about 45 > > degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped > > repeatedly as there were no > > corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For > > that I paid
[Phono-L] ***SPAM*** shipping antiques=business opportunity
It seems to me, the market could stand a company that will ship antiques and provide proper packaging. Part of it would be gentle handling and not expect it should drop off of a conveyor belt 6 feet to the floor or stand a 100 pound package dropping on it. I sold a $600 clock on Ebay last year and built a wooden crate to put it in. The crate then went into a cardboard box. The clock arrived safely and the buyer was very happy. On the plus side, each phono that gets destroyed by UPS means more repair parts available and our remaining phonos must be worth more. :) Dave From est...@localnet.com Thu Feb 15 16:31:17 2007 From: est...@localnet.com (estott) Date: Thu Feb 15 16:32:21 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. References: <20070215233413.d7c68b4...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> <3ae1610e-aede-436a-95a7-ce979fb2c...@popyrus.com> Message-ID: <000601c75161$c5bf61c0$47e6f...@esjqacchoqgqch> A bit off the photograph topic, but if you want trouble, try shipping an old sword (like a masonic or knights of pythias) IF you can find a box. I had one shipped to me, the only box the professional shipper had was one of those triangular ones. If it had been a bit longer things would have been OK as it was well padded and not all that fragile, BUT to make the sword shorter the shipper took the blade out of the scabbard. By the time it got to me the pointed end was sticking out of the box. I've tried shipping them, had to use an oversized lamp box and cut it down and essentially rebuild it. Fortunately the buyer bought several light items from me that I could pack with it- otherwise the cost of the packing would have been quite high. I had one Odd Fellows sword shipped to me in a reinforced tube- it was excellent protection, but so heavy the shipping cost was to prohibitive for anything but a very valuable item. Eric Stott - Original Message - From: "Andrew Baron" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. > On Feb 15, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Rich wrote: >> ...Shipping any antique is an accident looking for a place to happen. > > Yes, I've come to believe that it has. I do occasionally buy on eBay and > have had mixed luck with shipping as have all of us, with some > exceptionally poor and arriving damaged, and a select few so incredibly > well-packed that I make a point to thank the seller effusively, give > radiant feedback, etc. Those truly well and thoughtfully packed items > really make my day. > > Andy > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >
[Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S.
To pack an Edison spring drive phono you have to remove the mechanism from the case and pack them separately. Now to pack the mechanism you should do at least the following: Bread tie the governor weights on both sides. Wrap a piece of closed cell polyethylene foam around the governor and tie down. Find a box that the motor will fit into and the bedplate will set on top of. Trim height so spring barrel is almost on bottom. Place piece of fibre carpet pad in bottom to set spring on. Buy a can of urethane foam. Sprinkle inside of box with a light mist of tap water. Fill box about 1/3 full of foam, maybe a little less. Let it set for about 15 min. drape 2 layers of plastic wrap over foam in box and lapped over all sides. Set works into foam box. let cure for at least 24 hours at room temperature. After cure make sure that reproducer is NOt in carriage. Wrap around box in both directions with shrink wrap, this will hold it all together. Make a box or collar to fit over and cover topworks. Shrink wrap top down. If you think that the packing might rub on the finish and mark it then use sandwich wrap to protect (buy at SAMs). You now have a nice rectangular block that will go into the larger box. Use corner cardboards to suspend the works box inside the outer box. These are the "W" shaped pieces of cardboard. The case is straightforward. put sandwich wrap paper between the lid and base. Wrap with shrink wrap and pack in a big box. you can use peanuts if you compress them tightly. Secure these packages initially with the standard sticky tape. Then go over all of the sticky tape with water activated fiberglass reinforced heavy paper tape. This will pass the 6 foot drop test. I pack them like this and then registered mail them. They show up without a scratch. there is about $10 to $12 dollars of packing materials in this. Every town in the country has a box company either in town or the next town. This is where you get the corner supports and boxes. The corner supports go on all sides in the corners, that is twelve to the box and that suspends the mech inside the outer box. make sure that the corner supports still have some spring in them to absorb shocks. This takes longer to tell than to do. On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:55:50 -0600, Robert Wright wrote: >Then the one pervading rule is: if it's gonna get shipped, it's gonna get >damaged. >I guess I'll continue to consider myself very lucky that I only have two >negative experiences out of ... let's see... going on about 17 years of >mail-order and shipping things in general now. And it only happened 2 years >ago, spawning my policy of instructing the seller on packing. It was one of >my Dual 1019 turntables, and luck was against it. The seller didn't know to >remove the 7 pound platter, which you MUST do with the pressboad/plywood >plinth turntables before shipping, in addition to tightening the transport >screws that bind the baseplate to the plinth. Well, the transport screw >washers broke free of the plinth and demolished it. I didn't need the >plinth, it wasn't a 'nice' one to begin with and I had the one I wanted to >use already, but there were metal parts bent up inside that made the >automatic changer useless and the speed/pitch control useless. And >"FRAGILE" was nowhere on the package. >The other negative experience was the 20" Pathe I've mentioned. >Rich, you said, "I have seen the mechanism of Edison homes blasted through >the side of an inner cardboard box and dents on the inside of the outer box, >and it was very well packed." If that's the case, then what else could've >been done? >I still think Rich had the best idea for super-rare and super-valuable -- >get it in writing that they'll ship it Registered Mail FIRST, and then raise >holy hell with a lawyer in tow if anything bad happens. >Best, >Robert >- Original Message - >From: "Andrew Baron" >To: "Antique Phonograph List" >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:02 PM >Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. >> Hello all ~ >> >> It occurred to me that it's probably relevant to mention that NONE of the >> items I mentioned in my last posting about shipping damage were procured >> from eBay sellers or any other on-line auctions. I say this to separate >> the shipping issue from the eBay issues that get discussed here from time >> to time. >> >> The Herzog cabinet was purchased from an established and reputable >> dealer, the lamp was a family heirloom being shipped to me from a close >> family member in a distant state and the antique cash register was from >> an antique store in Florida that I have done repairs and trades with >> since I was a young teen. >> >> Andy Baron >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >___ >Phono-L mailing list >http:
[Phono-L] shipping swords
Seems that the proper diameter PVC pipe would be the way to go with swords. I've had long sections of stainless steel vintage car side trim shipped this way and they arrive just fine every time. Andy Baron On Feb 15, 2007, at 5:31 PM, estott wrote: > A bit off the photograph topic, but if you want trouble, try > shipping an old sword (like a masonic or knights of pythias) IF you > can find a box. I had one shipped to me, the only box the > professional shipper had was one of those triangular ones. If it > had been a bit longer things would have been OK as it was well > padded and not all that fragile, BUT to make the sword shorter the > shipper took the blade out of the scabbard. By the time it got to > me the pointed end was sticking out of the box. > > I've tried shipping them, had to use an oversized lamp box and cut > it down and essentially rebuild it. Fortunately the buyer bought > several light items from me that I could pack with it- otherwise > the cost of the packing would have been quite high. I had one Odd > Fellows sword shipped to me in a reinforced tube- it was excellent > protection, but so heavy the shipping cost was to prohibitive for > anything but a very valuable item. > Eric Stott > > > - Original Message - From: "Andrew Baron" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. > > >> On Feb 15, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Rich wrote: >>> ...Shipping any antique is an accident looking for a place to >>> happen. >> >> Yes, I've come to believe that it has. I do occasionally buy on >> eBay and have had mixed luck with shipping as have all of us, >> with some exceptionally poor and arriving damaged, and a select >> few so incredibly well-packed that I make a point to thank the >> seller effusively, give radiant feedback, etc. Those truly well >> and thoughtfully packed items really make my day. >> >> Andy >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] ***SPAM*** shipping antiques=business opportunity
The wood crate inside the cardboard box works well as long as the contents can stand shocks. I have used this also. On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:19:45 -0800 (PST), David Dazer wrote: >It seems to me, the market could stand a company that will ship antiques and >provide proper packaging. Part of it would be gentle handling and not expect it should drop off of a conveyor belt 6 feet to the floor or stand a 100 pound package dropping on it. I sold a $600 clock on Ebay last year and built a wooden crate to put it in. The crate then went into a cardboard box. The clock arrived safely and the buyer was very happy. On the plus side, each phono that gets destroyed by UPS means more repair parts available and our remaining phonos must be worth more. :) > Dave >___ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] ***SPAM*** shipping antiques=business opportunity
The school I drive goes on a field trip each year to our local post office. This year the person giving the tour told us how the postal worker "threw" the packages into each bin for their particular route. I so wanted to speak up about their handling of packages, but that was neither the time or place. George - Original Message - From: David Dazer To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: [Phono-L] ***SPAM*** shipping antiques=business opportunity It seems to me, the market could stand a company that will ship antiques and provide proper packaging. Part of it would be gentle handling and not expect it should drop off of a conveyor belt 6 feet to the floor or stand a 100 pound package dropping on it. I sold a $600 clock on Ebay last year and built a wooden crate to put it in. The crate then went into a cardboard box. The clock arrived safely and the buyer was very happy. On the plus side, each phono that gets destroyed by UPS means more repair parts available and our remaining phonos must be worth more. :) Dave ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007 4:17 PM
[Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S.
Eric, Albany has box compainies and they sell packing tubes that are not too heavy and that a sword will fit in with adequate padding. Or the square tube mailer 5X5 X25, or 37, or 43. Also 3x3 same length selection. On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:31:17 -0500, estott wrote: >A bit off the photograph topic, but if you want trouble, try shipping an old >sword (like a masonic or knights of pythias) IF you can find a box. I had >one shipped to me, the only box the professional shipper had was one of >those triangular ones. If it had been a bit longer things would have been OK >as it was well padded and not all that fragile, BUT to make the sword >shorter the shipper took the blade out of the scabbard. By the time it got >to me the pointed end was sticking out of the box. >I've tried shipping them, had to use an oversized lamp box and cut it down >and essentially rebuild it. Fortunately the buyer bought several light items >from me that I could pack with it- otherwise the cost of the packing would >have been quite high. I had one Odd Fellows sword shipped to me in a >reinforced tube- it was excellent protection, but so heavy the shipping cost >was to prohibitive for anything but a very valuable item. >Eric Stott >- Original Message - >From: "Andrew Baron" >To: "Antique Phonograph List" >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:47 PM >Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. >> On Feb 15, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Rich wrote: >>> ...Shipping any antique is an accident looking for a place to happen. >> >> Yes, I've come to believe that it has. I do occasionally buy on eBay and >> have had mixed luck with shipping as have all of us, with some >> exceptionally poor and arriving damaged, and a select few so incredibly >> well-packed that I make a point to thank the seller effusively, give >> radiant feedback, etc. Those truly well and thoughtfully packed items >> really make my day. >> >> Andy >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >___ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping swords
- Original Message - From: "Andrew Baron" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:53 PM Subject: [Phono-L] shipping swords > Seems that the proper diameter PVC pipe would be the way to go with > swords. I've had long sections of stainless steel vintage car side trim > shipped this way and they arrive just fine every time. > > Andy Baron True- but when the sword you're shipping is worth at the very most $200.00 and very possibly less just the cost of the pipe would be a factor. Stott
[Phono-L] shipping swords
This is also applicable to horn cranes and crane part shipping, so it is by no means off-topic. About 5 years I sold a really nice late 1800's French dueling foil. The blade was expertly tempered, so I was a little reluctant to ship it. But what I did was first put it in a very heavy cardboard tube that I picked up at a carpet store. It was about 1/4" to 3/8" thick. I then put that inside of a USPS Priority Mail triangular shipping box. Actually, I used two boxes (one full length and the other cut off and fit over the end of the first) to accommodate the foil's length. The only part of the foil that wasn't covered by the tube was the coquille (which is really large and strong enough to ship just fine without extra protection). In retrospect, Andy's idea of using PVC pipe seems like a better idea. Where were you 5 years ago when I needed the advice? LOL... Anyway, the thoughts are good to think on when you pack and ship cranes and crane parts. That way, when the crane arrives, it will be in one piece and you won't have to slap the seller's cheek with your glove and challenge him to a duel. Walt -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:54 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] shipping swords Seems that the proper diameter PVC pipe would be the way to go with swords. I've had long sections of stainless steel vintage car side trim shipped this way and they arrive just fine every time. Andy Baron On Feb 15, 2007, at 5:31 PM, estott wrote: > A bit off the photograph topic, but if you want trouble, try > shipping an old sword (like a masonic or knights of pythias) IF you > can find a box. I had one shipped to me, the only box the > professional shipper had was one of those triangular ones. If it > had been a bit longer things would have been OK as it was well > padded and not all that fragile, BUT to make the sword shorter the > shipper took the blade out of the scabbard. By the time it got to > me the pointed end was sticking out of the box. > > I've tried shipping them, had to use an oversized lamp box and cut > it down and essentially rebuild it. Fortunately the buyer bought > several light items from me that I could pack with it- otherwise > the cost of the packing would have been quite high. I had one Odd > Fellows sword shipped to me in a reinforced tube- it was excellent > protection, but so heavy the shipping cost was to prohibitive for > anything but a very valuable item. > Eric Stott > > > - Original Message - From: "Andrew Baron" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. > > >> On Feb 15, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Rich wrote: >>> ...Shipping any antique is an accident looking for a place to >>> happen. >> >> Yes, I've come to believe that it has. I do occasionally buy on >> eBay and have had mixed luck with shipping as have all of us, >> with some exceptionally poor and arriving damaged, and a select >> few so incredibly well-packed that I make a point to thank the >> seller effusively, give radiant feedback, etc. Those truly well >> and thoughtfully packed items really make my day. >> >> Andy >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007
[Phono-L] shipping swords
The square tube is only a couple of dollars, unless you go to an office supply. They will hit you for twice as much. On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:13:52 -0500, estott wrote: >- Original Message - >From: "Andrew Baron" >To: "Antique Phonograph List" >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:53 PM >Subject: [Phono-L] shipping swords >> Seems that the proper diameter PVC pipe would be the way to go with >> swords. I've had long sections of stainless steel vintage car side trim >> shipped this way and they arrive just fine every time. >> >> Andy Baron >True- but when the sword you're shipping is worth at the very most $200.00 >and very possibly less just the cost of the pipe would be a factor. >Stott >___ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] ***SPAM*** shipping antiques=business opportunity
What's this SPAM thing that is popping up once in a while by our email addresses?? George wrote: The school I drive goes on a field trip each year to our local post office. This year the person giving the tour told us how the postal worker "threw" the packages into each bin for their particular route. I so wanted to speak up about their handling of packages, but that was neither the time or place. George - Original Message - From: David Dazer To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: [Phono-L] ***SPAM*** shipping antiques=business opportunity It seems to me, the market could stand a company that will ship antiques and provide proper packaging. Part of it would be gentle handling and not expect it should drop off of a conveyor belt 6 feet to the floor or stand a 100 pound package dropping on it. I sold a $600 clock on Ebay last year and built a wooden crate to put it in. The crate then went into a cardboard box. The clock arrived safely and the buyer was very happy. On the plus side, each phono that gets destroyed by UPS means more repair parts available and our remaining phonos must be worth more. :) Dave ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007 4:17 PM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping swords
UPS charges extra for anything other than square cardboard so you will have to either pay the surcharge or buy a box. That is why you build the wood crate inside a cardboard box On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:26:41 -0500, Walt wrote: >This is also applicable to horn cranes and crane part shipping, so it is by >no means off-topic. >About 5 years I sold a really nice late 1800's French dueling foil. The >blade was expertly tempered, so I was a little reluctant to ship it. But >what I did was first put it in a very heavy cardboard tube that I picked up >at a carpet store. It was about 1/4" to 3/8" thick. I then put that inside >of a USPS Priority Mail triangular shipping box. Actually, I used two boxes >(one full length and the other cut off and fit over the end of the first) to >accommodate the foil's length. The only part of the foil that wasn't covered >by the tube was the coquille (which is really large and strong enough to >ship just fine without extra protection). >In retrospect, Andy's idea of using PVC pipe seems like a better idea. Where >were you 5 years ago when I needed the advice? LOL... >Anyway, the thoughts are good to think on when you pack and ship cranes and >crane parts. That way, when the crane arrives, it will be in one piece and >you won't have to slap the seller's cheek with your glove and challenge him >to a duel. >Walt >-Original Message- >From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On >Behalf Of Andrew Baron >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:54 PM >To: Antique Phonograph List >Subject: [Phono-L] shipping swords >Seems that the proper diameter PVC pipe would be the way to go with >swords. I've had long sections of stainless steel vintage car side >trim shipped this way and they arrive just fine every time. >Andy Baron >On Feb 15, 2007, at 5:31 PM, estott wrote: >> A bit off the photograph topic, but if you want trouble, try >> shipping an old sword (like a masonic or knights of pythias) IF you >> can find a box. I had one shipped to me, the only box the >> professional shipper had was one of those triangular ones. If it >> had been a bit longer things would have been OK as it was well >> padded and not all that fragile, BUT to make the sword shorter the >> shipper took the blade out of the scabbard. By the time it got to >> me the pointed end was sticking out of the box. >> >> I've tried shipping them, had to use an oversized lamp box and cut >> it down and essentially rebuild it. Fortunately the buyer bought >> several light items from me that I could pack with it- otherwise >> the cost of the packing would have been quite high. I had one Odd >> Fellows sword shipped to me in a reinforced tube- it was excellent >> protection, but so heavy the shipping cost was to prohibitive for >> anything but a very valuable item. >> Eric Stott >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Andrew Baron" >> To: "Antique Phonograph List" >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. >> >> >>> On Feb 15, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Rich wrote: ...Shipping any antique is an accident looking for a place to happen. >>> >>> Yes, I've come to believe that it has. I do occasionally buy on >>> eBay and have had mixed luck with shipping as have all of us, >>> with some exceptionally poor and arriving damaged, and a select >>> few so incredibly well-packed that I make a point to thank the >>> seller effusively, give radiant feedback, etc. Those truly well >>> and thoughtfully packed items really make my day. >>> >>> Andy >>> ___ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >___ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007 > >___ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Hauling to Union and back to the West Coast
Wow! All the horror stories about packing and shipping! I'm driving from Oregon to Union and back and am interested in hauling things to and from the West Coast for gas money. Please let me know if you are interested and contact me off list. Thanks, Jerry Blais 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news From a...@popyrus.com Thu Feb 15 20:41:09 2007 From: a...@popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Thu Feb 15 20:41:40 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Cardboard over crate - UPS In-Reply-To: <20070216022526.9f420b5...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> References: <20070216022526.9f420b5...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Message-ID: A few years ago I bought a Columbia Sterling with spearpoint oak horn (is it correct to refer to the Columbia version of this distinctive design as spear point --a term I've generally heard only in relation to Victor horns?). This was my first experience with the cardboard- over-crate. The seller told me that when he showed up at UPS with the crate that they wanted to charge him extra, so he took it home, cut cardboard squares to match the crate panels and taped them all over the crate! He went back and UPS gave him the better rate. This was one of those not so common eBay buys where the seller did an absolutely amazing job. Two crates, plenty of support, reinforced solid styrofoam panel with a hole in the center, spaced with styrofoam blocks to hold the mid section of the horn, removed and delicately packed the back support, tone arm, crank, etc. Six years later, this machine still has a warm place in my heart because of the incredibly respectful job the seller did with the packing. It was a one-owner machine from a small town in Minnesota called Graceville. Described as having "the usual wear and tear you would expect from a 90 year old record player", and accompanied on the auction page by some rather poor, low-resolution photos. When I unpacked it I couldn't believe the quality -- flawless original finish with both the banner and Graphophone decals (definitely original to this late Sterling, and in near perfect condition), better than average nickel on the crank, gorgeous horn, etc. Truly a joy to unpack. I started taking photos of the unpacking as soon as I realized what a singular job of packing this gentleman did, just so I could relive the event later (although this is the first time it occurs to me that I did this!). Definitely one of those rare occasions where the item was under-represented in terms of quality, and packed to exceed my best hopes. The seller did the packing himself and was selling the machine as a favor to his friend, an ancient lady to whom he was close, who was leaving the home she was raised in. Andy Baron On Feb 15, 2007, at 7:25 PM, Rich wrote: > UPS charges extra for anything other than square cardboard so you > will have to either pay the > surcharge or buy a box. That is why you build the wood crate > inside a cardboard box > > On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:26:41 -0500, Walt wrote: > >> This is also applicable to horn cranes and crane part shipping, so >> it is by >> no means off-topic. > >> About 5 years I sold a really nice late 1800's French dueling >> foil. The >> blade was expertly tempered, so I was a little reluctant to ship >> it. But >> what I did was first put it in a very heavy cardboard tube that I >> picked up >> at a carpet store. It was about 1/4" to 3/8" thick. I then put >> that inside >> of a USPS Priority Mail triangular shipping box. Actually, I used >> two boxes >> (one full length and the other cut off and fit over the end of the >> first) to >> accommodate the foil's length. The only part of the foil that >> wasn't covered >> by the tube was the coquille (which is really large and strong >> enough to >> ship just fine without extra protection). > >> In retrospect, Andy's idea of using PVC pipe seems like a better >> idea. Where >> were you 5 years ago when I needed the advice? LOL... > >> Anyway, the thoughts are good to think on when you pack and ship >> cranes and >> crane parts. That way, when the crane arrives, it will be in one >> piece and >> you won't have to slap the seller's cheek with your glove and >> challenge him >> to a duel. > >> Walt
[Phono-L] A few items for sale:
Genola childs parts machine-tin cabinet, turntable, & motor. The green tin cabiinet has neat graphics on both sides and a Genola "Made in USA" label on the front. $55 plus shipping 11" paper Nippers - I have three extra. Two are original (with minor typical repairs) and one has been repainted. $250ea for originals and $150 for the repainted one plus shipping. I also have several machines for sale: Edison B Gem with black M/G horn, $750. Zonophone Home with lots of repro parts, $950. Vic 1 with repro horn & elbow, $900. If you see something interesting, please contact me off list. I am happy to send photos and deliver things to Union. Thanks & Happy Collecting, Jerry Blais Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From a...@popyrus.com Fri Feb 16 07:42:04 2007 From: a...@popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Fri Feb 16 07:42:34 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping Herzog & NCR P.S. In-Reply-To: <20070216003818.5e681b5...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> References: <20070216003818.5e681b5...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Message-ID: Fabulous, detailed description. Thank you. Andy Baron On Feb 15, 2007, at 5:37 PM, Rich wrote: > To pack an Edison spring drive phono you have to remove the > mechanism from the case and pack them > separately. Now to pack the mechanism you should do at least the > following: Bread tie the governor > weights on both sides. Wrap a piece of closed cell polyethylene > foam around the governor and tie > down. Find a box that the motor will fit into and the bedplate > will set on top of. Trim height so spring > barrel is almost on bottom. Place piece of fibre carpet pad in > bottom to set spring on. Buy a can of > urethane foam. Sprinkle inside of box with a light mist of tap > water. Fill box about 1/3 full of foam, > maybe a little less. Let it set for about 15 min. drape 2 layers > of plastic wrap over foam in box and > lapped over all sides. Set works into foam box. let cure for at > least 24 hours at room temperature. > After cure make sure that reproducer is NOt in carriage. Wrap > around box in both directions with > shrink wrap, this will hold it all together. Make a box or collar > to fit over and cover topworks. Shrink > wrap top down. If you think that the packing might rub on the > finish and mark it then use sandwich > wrap to protect (buy at SAMs). You now have a nice rectangular > block that will go into the larger box. > Use corner cardboards to suspend the works box inside the outer > box. These are the "W" shaped > pieces of cardboard. The case is straightforward. put sandwich > wrap paper between the lid and base. > Wrap with shrink wrap and pack in a big box. you can use peanuts > if you compress them tightly. > Secure these packages initially with the standard sticky tape. > Then go over all of the sticky tape with > water activated fiberglass reinforced heavy paper tape. This will > pass the 6 foot drop test. I pack them > like this and then registered mail them. They show up without a > scratch. there is about $10 to $12 > dollars of packing materials in this. Every town in the country > has a box company either in town or > the next town. This is where you get the corner supports and > boxes. The corner supports go on all > sides in the corners, that is twelve to the box and that suspends > the mech inside the outer box. make > sure that the corner supports still have some spring in them to > absorb shocks. > > This takes longer to tell than to do. > > > > On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:55:50 -0600, Robert Wright wrote: > >> Then the one pervading rule is: if it's gonna get shipped, it's >> gonna get >> damaged. > >> I guess I'll continue to consider myself very lucky that I only >> have two >> negative experiences out of ... let's see... going on about 17 >> years of >> mail-order and shipping things in general now. And it only >> happened 2 years >> ago, spawning my policy of instructing the seller on packing. It >> was one of >> my Dual 1019 turntables, and luck was against it. The seller >> didn't know to >> remove the 7 pound platter, which you MUST do with the pressboad/ >> plywood >> plinth turntables before shipping, in addition to tightening the >> transport >> screws that bind the baseplate to the plinth. Well, the transport >> screw >> washers broke free of the plinth and demolished it. I didn't need >> the >> plinth, it wasn't a 'nice' one to begin with and I had the one I >> wanted to >> use already, but there were metal parts bent up inside that made the >> automatic changer useless and the speed/pitch control useless. And >> "FRAGILE" was nowhere on the package. > >> The other negative experience was the 20" Pathe I've mentioned. > >> Rich, you said, "I have seen the mechanism of Edison homes blasted >>
