Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Sander Steffann]

Hi,

> > And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things?
>
>   It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend Engine 2.0:
>   interfaces and private methods. Both are not really critical, as they
>   don't aim at solving technical problems, but social ones during the
>   design process.

Private methods would be very nice to have. Like you said, technically it
doesn't matter, but it makes it easier to 'educate' people.

Example: I have written some classes for my company, and I made docs that
explained all the available methods. Now a co-worker had a look at the
sources, and decided that a few 'internal/undocumented' functions were
useful to him... Since I didn't know those functions were used outside the
class, I changed them and broke some of his code.

The obvious sollution would be to educate my co-worker about using
undocumented features, but doing this through programming language
constructs makes this a lot easier (and I can be SURE nobody uses that code
where they shouldn't).

Just my personal reasons why I would like private methods :)
Sander.




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[PHP-DEV] Referrences

[Michael Stolovitzsky]

If I understand correctly, given $bar is an object

$foo = $bar 

will copy entire contents of $bar into foo. Following question: what happens
with $foo = new Foo? Does the object get created, copied into $foo and then 
destroyed, while the copy in $foo lives? 

In other words, is there a performance benefit to do $foo =& new Foo?





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Re: [PHP-DEV] Referrences

[Markus Fischer]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 10:29:19AM +0300, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote : 
> If I understand correctly, given $bar is an object
> 
> $foo = $bar 
> 
> will copy entire contents of $bar into foo. Following question: what happens
> with $foo = new Foo? Does the object get created, copied into $foo and then 
> destroyed, while the copy in $foo lives? 
> 
> In other words, is there a performance benefit to do $foo =& new Foo?

No, it's exactly the other way around with objects, you get a
slight performance penalty (though it may no be noticeable at
all).

Currently, not useing the '&' operator will always create a
new (shallow) copy of the objects.

This is already addressed with the new Zend Engine 2 which
will behave as expected (objects aren't copied, they stay
atomic until explicitely duplicated [cloned]).

- Markus

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Markus Fischer]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 08:48:48AM +0200, Björn Schotte wrote : 
> Hi,
> 
> * Jani Taskinen wrote:
> > What do you mean with 'better release management' ?
> 
> Extensions that get broken from one minor release to
> another minor release is not a very good thing.

This is true, but ... there is absolutely _nothing_ we can do
about it. The QA Team is, well .. sometimes I get the
impression it's only one person! Until we prison some people
to do it, I think our QA or Release Management  will not
improve that much. Other hot topics in this area would be
automated test system (more then the current make test does).
Yet this needs ideas, work, not paid time dedication (you see
yet again the same problem arises :).

sigh,

- Markus

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[John Lim]

Hi Sebastian,

Unfortunately some people are paranoid about security.

We might not want people to fiddle around with the internals of a class, for
example
an authentication class which holds the passwords of users. Even if the
whole web site
is  Zend Encoded, doing a var_dump on $GLOBALS will reveal a lot about .the
site.

Regards, John

"Sebastian Bergmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> John Lim wrote:
> > Private members and methods are essential from a security view-point,
>
>   Why? They solve social issues between developers.
>
> > and perhaps application variables, but that's about it.
>
>   SRM adds Application Variables to the PHP Platform.
>
> --
>   Sebastian Bergmann
>   http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/
>
>   Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/



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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Zeev Suraski]

At 09:48 AM 6/3/2002, Björn Schotte wrote:
> > >more complexity to the language itself.
> > Why would making PHP more complex be a good thing?
>
>Because not every web designer and semi-programmer could
>then work with PHP - this lacks the image of PHP. ("PHP
>ist only good for guestbooks and very small applications.",
>most people think)

I understand that reverse logic, but reject it completely.

Zeev


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Melvyn Sopacua]

At 10:18 3-6-2002, Markus Fischer shared with all of us:

>This is true, but ... there is absolutely _nothing_ we can do
> about it. The QA Team is, well .. sometimes I get the
> impression it's only one person!

Derick had a good thing going, when he emailed people who reported
problems and needed confirmation of a fix. That stopped.

Besides that - there's no involvement of QA when extensions get moved,
broken or added new functionality - just at RC time.
Yes - most of us, will read php-dev, but a heads-up when something major
has changed with an extension is not a bad thing.

This will allow the extension maintainer to fix things when it's still
fresh - not when there's a release x weeks/months down the road, and he's
devoted his time elsewhere and can't do anything about it anymore.

>  Until we prison some people
> to do it, I think our QA or Release Management  will not
> improve that much. Other hot topics in this area would be
> automated test system (more then the current make test does).

The current (=4.3.0-dev) make test at least provides a consistent output 
and logging.
With a simple command all reports can be collected:
find . -type f \( -name "*.log" -a \! -name "config.log" \) -print | xargs 
tar -cpvzf ./failed.tgz

Add that to the test target in the makefile and instructions on where to upload
it, and you'll make test-reporting a whole lot easier.

Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,

IDG.nl
Melvyn Sopacua
Webmaster


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Zeev Suraski]

John,

Whether we end up having private methods or not, it's way beyond their 
scope to address the issue of security, and protecting data from someone 
who has access to their code.  It's always possible to work around that 
level of 'security', whether it's in C++, Java or any other 
language.  private members/methods are an issue of software development 
methodologies, and have nothing to do with security.

Zeev

At 11:44 AM 6/3/2002, John Lim wrote:
>Hi Sebastian,
>
>Unfortunately some people are paranoid about security.
>
>We might not want people to fiddle around with the internals of a class, for
>example
>an authentication class which holds the passwords of users. Even if the
>whole web site
>is  Zend Encoded, doing a var_dump on $GLOBALS will reveal a lot about .the
>site.
>
>Regards, John
>
>"Sebastian Bergmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > John Lim wrote:
> > > Private members and methods are essential from a security view-point,
> >
> >   Why? They solve social issues between developers.
> >
> > > and perhaps application variables, but that's about it.
> >
> >   SRM adds Application Variables to the PHP Platform.
> >
> > --
> >   Sebastian Bergmann
> >   http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/
> >
> >   Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/
>
>
>
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision (was: libxml bundling)

[Kristian Koehntopp]

On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 12:17:34AM +0300, Zeev Suraski wrote:
> >The ease of PHP - one of its biggest advantages is also
> >one of its biggest disadvantages. IMHO.
> 
> Do you mind elaborating on that??
> 
> I think we should hash out this issue as soon as possible,
> because if people have a vision of turning PHP into a language
> which is hostile towards newbies, then there's a serious lack
> of consensus in our team.  Furthermore, if you think that we
> should not strive to make it even easier for people to get
> started, forever, then we have a strong disagreement as well.

I think that PHP should be only as "newbie hostile" as security
dictates (register_globals off and similar stuff). It should be
as convenient and easy to use as possible.

It should also provide hooks and means to reconfigure it
manually for those people who want to "outgrow" PHP, or want to
run a cleaner language. That is, there really should be options
that turn on stricter variable checking, stricter handling of
objects. And there should be deployment models that enable more
demanding programming styles. And these should NOT be default.
Those who want them will be able to enable them.

Kristian


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[derick]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Melvyn Sopacua wrote:

> At 10:18 3-6-2002, Markus Fischer shared with all of us:
> 
> >This is true, but ... there is absolutely _nothing_ we can do
> > about it. The QA Team is, well .. sometimes I get the
> > impression it's only one person!
> 
> Derick had a good thing going, when he emailed people who reported
> problems and needed confirmation of a fix. That stopped.

yes, unfortunately that stopped, because I don't have time to manage it 
that tight. It costs a lot of time and doesn't gain that much at all. The 
only reason I did this was to get the release as bugfree as possible. And 
I only wrote people back who had problems with release candidates.

> Besides that - there's no involvement of QA when extensions get moved,
> broken or added new functionality - just at RC time.

That's how it is now, but in an ideal situation the tests should be 
automated to run once a day so incompatabilities are found early.

> Yes - most of us, will read php-dev, but a heads-up when something major
> has changed with an extension is not a bad thing.
> 
> This will allow the extension maintainer to fix things when it's still
> fresh - not when there's a release x weeks/months down the road, and he's
> devoted his time elsewhere and can't do anything about it anymore.
> 
> >  Until we prison some people
> > to do it, I think our QA or Release Management  will not
> > improve that much. Other hot topics in this area would be
> > automated test system (more then the current make test does).
> 
> The current (=4.3.0-dev) make test at least provides a consistent output 
> and logging.
> With a simple command all reports can be collected:
> find . -type f \( -name "*.log" -a \! -name "config.log" \) -print | xargs 
> tar -cpvzf ./failed.tgz
> 
> Add that to the test target in the makefile and instructions on where to upload
> it, and you'll make test-reporting a whole lot easier.

that would help indeed..

Derick

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Kristian Koehntopp]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 02:38:50PM +0800, John Lim wrote:
> Let me explain. I'm developing extranets with PHP and occasionally I get a
> checklist of required features from a customer. Features such as:
> 
>  - clustering,
>  - management of server farms,
>  - transparent fail-over,
>  - load balancing
>  - application deployment without restarting server
>  - advanced queueing
>  - database connection pooling
> 
> I believe that many of these features should probably not be part of the
> language,

Most of these are features of the deployment model, not the
language. That's part of the problem: Since PHP 3, development
has (publicly) concentrated on the language and language
features. The deployment model has changed slightly, adding a
lot of SAPIs, but not fundamentally - SAPIs manage variables and
state like they always did. Also, Zend added some very important
things with their Cache, which has been duplicated partially
outside Zend.

I believe the things that you list above are very important, as
important or even more important that the language level changed
for PHP 5/ZE2. The issue is, little is being done into this
direction at the moment, with SRM being the only project
focussing on that. Someone has asked for a vision for PHP, and
it might me that...

> Does this mean that when i become more successful and get
> larger clients with Enterprise requirements I have to abandon
> PHP and switch to Java or MS.NET? I hope not.

Unless "PHP" adresses this issue explicitly and publicly: Yes,
you will have to switch. Sad.

Kristian

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Kristian Koehntopp]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 04:44:05PM +0800, John Lim wrote:
> We might not want people to fiddle around with the internals of a class,
> for example an authentication class which holds the passwords of users.
> Even if the whole web site is Zend Encoded, doing a var_dump on $GLOBALS
> will reveal a lot about .the site.

Private variables and private functions are not a security tool.
They enforce (partially) a contract between the producer and the
user of a class. They also have big design problems, which
ultimately lead to a lot of more, and more complicated issues
(friend, protected and the like, debugging problems and so on).

Kristian

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision (was: libxml bundling)

[Zeev Suraski]

At 12:28 PM 6/3/2002, Kristian Koehntopp wrote:
>I think that PHP should be only as "newbie hostile" as security
>dictates (register_globals off and similar stuff). It should be
>as convenient and easy to use as possible.
>
>It should also provide hooks and means to reconfigure it
>manually for those people who want to "outgrow" PHP, or want to
>run a cleaner language. That is, there really should be options
>that turn on stricter variable checking, stricter handling of
>objects. And there should be deployment models that enable more
>demanding programming styles. And these should NOT be default.
>Those who want them will be able to enable them.

Amen to that!

Zeev


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: User-space functionality of apache2filter

[Daniel BODEA]

> On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 11:33:08AM -0700, Aaron Bannert wrote:
> > I really wish people would stop quoting artificial dates for when the
> > apache2filter will magically become stable, and just start using it
> > and identifying problems. A few of us have put some great effort into
> > making it usable, and I have been using it on my site for the last few
> > weeks with no problems. It will become stable when it has been used in
> > production, not when it's been sitting stale in CVS for 6 months.
>
> To add my two cents:
>
> I have been using apache2filter in production for quite a few months
> with no user-visible problems with a threaded MPM.  All segfaults
> that I have seen are now fixed in CVS.  -- justin

I use apache2filter in production myself so it's really not a deployment
problem at all. I think the previous discussion was referring to the time
needed to gather a critical mass of production installations in order to get
a substantial amount of feedback, feature requests, bug reports and
successful tests on different platforms and configurations as to brand the
module "successfully deployed on a large scale" and "feature consistent".

.02
D


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[PHP-DEV] Problems with memory limit code and memory leaks in scripts

[Hans Rakers]

Hello all,

While working on one of our projects i stumbled on what i think is a 
problem in the Zend engine regarding the memory limit code. On some scripts 
the server reported memexhausts when the site had heavy traffic. I wrote a 
PHP extension that can return a script's memory usage at any time during 
execution, to find out what caused these errors. The memory usage extension 
uses two methods, the first being the total of all allocated persistent and 
regular memory blocks (REAL_SIZE), the second method is just a return of 
the variable AG(allocated_memory).

Now in one of the scripts i was monitoring i noticed a constant increase in 
memory usage (using the second method described earlier) of 10KB when 
constantly reloading in my browser. Using the second method the memory 
usage was constant.

After some investigation i discovered that that particular script leaked 10 
KB of memory on every request. I analyzed the memory limit code in Zend, 
and adapted sapi/apache/mod_php4.c to not only return 
AG(allocated_memory_peak) as an Apache variable, but also 
AG(allocated_memory) to check whether AG(allocated_memory) was zero after 
execution of each script.

This was not the case. When a script leaks memory (which really shouldn't 
happen, but it does), after its execution AG(allocated_memory) still 
contains the amount of memory that was not de-allocated. This is what seems 
to cause the trouble. Since AG(allocated_memory) is not always zero after 
execution of a script, and AG(allocated_memory_peak) is dependant on it, 
consecutive requests on a leaking script result in an ever increasing 
AG(allocated_memory) and thus an ever increasing AG(allocated_memory_peak), 
which at a certain moment results in AG(allocated_memory_peak) > 
AG(memory_limit). This is what caused the memory exhaust errors.

I noticed that AG(allocated_memory_peak) *is* reset after script execution 
in sapi/apache/mod_php4.c, but AG(allocated_memory) isn't. I should really 
be tracking down the reason for the script to leak 10 KB of memory, but i 
fixed this problem temporarily by adding a AG(allocated_memory) = 0 line to 
mod_php4.c in function send_parsed_php(), though i'm not sure if this is 
the right thing to do. For now it fixes the memory exhausts.

I am interested in hearing your views on this matter.

With regards,

Hans Rakers


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: User-space functionality of apache2filter

[Melvyn Sopacua]

At 12:49 3-6-2002, Daniel BODEA shared with all of us:

>I use apache2filter in production myself so it's really not a deployment
>problem at all. I think the previous discussion was referring to the time
>needed to gather a critical mass of production installations in order to get
>a substantial amount of feedback, feature requests, bug reports and
>successful tests on different platforms and configurations as to brand the
>module "successfully deployed on a large scale" and "feature consistent".

I've got a testserver setup, but can't put it in production, because of:
a) the load thing - not too bad, but still
b) breaking of the SIGS, meaning I can't restart apache.

Untill that is fixed, all I can do is run some code here and there, but it
doesn't get real usage.

I do however want to run apache2 on some sites, especially in a threaded model,
so - what would I be able to do, apart from coding C, to make it easier for
you guys to fix and track down the problems.


Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,

IDG.nl
Melvyn Sopacua
Webmaster


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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ivan Ristic]

I believe that the following would greately benefit PHP:

 * Devise a kind of formalised process to document problems,
   new requirements, areas where PHP can be improved, decisions,
   projects, so on and so on.

 * Support this process with a collaborative web site where
   people would be able to see what is happening in the
   community, who is doing what, and where the help is needed.

 The way I see it, everyone has an itch to scratch, and we
 need to have all people with the same itch united.

 Would this be used if it existed?

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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ivan Ristic]

> I don't think a dictator is needed.  Even if I or someone else was to
> dictate that PHP was a web-only scripting language, do you really think
> that people would stop working on and using PHP for other things?

  The point of a plan/dictator is to provide a sense of direction. Some
  people will still do things that are not in the plan, but with a well
  defined vision you will catch those developers that would not
  contribute otherwise.

  If people do not understand the "big picture" then they will
  solve their problems in a way that will work only for them, and not
  for other users of PHP. PHP has been really good in the past where
  the effort was small enough for one person to handle or where people
  organised themselves to work in a team. The whole XML/XMLRPC/SOAP
  issue is a very good example of this.

  The marketing aspect of a vision must not be neglected either. If you
  go to the main web site, you can't find a single word about what is
  going to happen next. Now, if I am to choose PHP for my business I
  want to know that 
  
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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ivan Ristic]

  [oops, I sent the message before finishing it]


> for other users of PHP. PHP has been really good in the past where
> the effort was small enough for one person to handle or where people
> organised themselves to work in a team. The whole XML/XMLRPC/SOAP
> issue is a very good example of this.

  ...very good example of how a lot of effort has been wasted with
  multiple implementations of the same thing. The ability to choose
  is a good thing but we do not have spare programming resources
  to allow this.
 

> The marketing aspect of a vision must not be neglected either. If you
> go to the main web site, you can't find a single word about what is
> going to happen next. Now, if I am to choose PHP for my business I
> want to know that

  ...PHP lives and that new requirements/problems that arise will
  be properly addressed by someone who oversees the whole thing and
  thinks about my needs (I am talking about the global userbase, as
  very few people contribute to the core PHP effort). 

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[PHP-DEV] domxml memory issue

[Rob Richards]

attached is a diff of php_domxml.c i have been working on.
it is meant to allow the extension to synch up when sub trees which are
freed by libxml (basically it was started to attempt to fix the set_content
routine).

thanks to Lukas Schroeder and Christian Stocker for answering my questions
and their help on this, but i think i may have some issues with zval
cleanup.

the diff includes a modified set_content which seems to be working fine. so
far no segfaults on the tests i have run, as it doesnt seem to be trying to
double free memory anymore, but i feel that there may be some left of zvals
floating around especially when nodes are retrieved with xpath and returned
in an array.

the problem seems to come in the routine node_wrapper_destroy which was
added. the wrapper is set to null as the xml node no longer exists. the
php_free_xml_node routine will no longer dtor if the xml is removed as there
is no wrapper. i tried attempted to take care of this in the
node_wrapper_destroy function, but find when running scripts with xpath
calls i can keep increasing the refcount. so far using xpath has been the
only way i have found to increase the refcount above 2. the function will
remove the object from the hash if it exists there, so they become invalid
in scripting, but with the refcount possibly still above 0 after a call to
node_wrapper_destroy i dont think the zvals are being cleaned up properly. a
possible solution, though i am trying to avoid doing it is to get the
refcount when entering the node_wrapper_destroy function and just calling
zval_ptr_dtor that many times, but i dont think it is proper, so i figured
it was time to ask here for help.

any more help would be greatly appreciated.
please let me know if i am way off base with this methodology and wasting my
time here so i can look into other ways of accomplishing this.

thanks

rob



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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Jani Taskinen]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote:

>> >the web but more for Enterprise transaction based applications such as
>> >billing systems.
>>
>> Twisting your words a bit: You don't think PHP should be used for such
>> tasks ??
>
>No I definitely don't. And in most cases I wouldn't use J2EE either but I'd 
>use a C++ App server. There are also performance problems with J2EE App 
>servers but often company's clients require J2EE.

Would you write that C++ App server yourself or use some existing one?
(just wondering whether there is some open source c++ app server around..)

--Jani



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RE: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Lukas Smith]

I think it is not about a group of dictatos defining what the roadmap
will look like, but more what the current active developers commit to
for the next couple of months.

The important bit is giving people a better idea of what to expect next
so they can make a better decision if they are in doubt because the miss
a certain feature in PHP atm.

We will see how much we can expect from those commitments but I hope
that we can afford to set a high level of expectation in terms of
developers having to follow through with what they say they will commit
on.

If a developer repeatedly does follow through with their commitment,
then their work might not make it onto the next roadmap.

The cool thing about being on the roadmap is the huge exposure your will
get.

Best regards,
Lukas Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
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 Reuchlinstr. 10-11
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 10553 Berlin
 Germany
 Tel. : +49 30 83 22 50 00
 Fax  : +49 30 83 22 50 07
 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 7:35 AM
> To: Sebastian Bergmann
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision
> 
> That's fine, but that is not what Jani was talking about.  And I am
> curious, what do all the developers who have no interest (or no
> experience) with one particular topic like this do in those 3 months?
> 
> I think people want to apply traditional software development
> methodologies to open source development.  Jani wants a dictator who
will
> set the rules and tell people what to work on.  Others want refined
> roadmaps, release schedules, etc.  I think you are missing as key
concept
> here.  People volunteer their time and effort to work on things that
> personally interest them.  If someone comes along wanting to work on X
he
> does not want somebody telling him to go work on Y instead and have it
> done by Friday.  That is simply not how volunteer-driven collaborative
> software development works.
> 
> The challenge as a project grows is how to keep people interested and
> contributing while still keeping some sort of direction in mind. The
> bigger things get, the less laser-like this direction can be. It has
long
> since become a wide-beam flash light. We'd like to try to avoid it
shining
> off into all directions at once and at least direct the light somewhat
> towards one direction, but I don't think it is realistic to expect
more
> than that.  The single-developer laser-like direction just won't
happen.
> 
> Writing roadmaps is fine, but unless you find developers willing to
> enthusiastically put their names on each bullet point of the roadmap,
it
> means nothing.
> 
> -Rasmus
> 
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
> 
> > Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > > A roadmap marked in stone is going to alienate people and make
them
> > > less likely to go exploring down roads that whoever wrote the
roadmap
> > > didn't think of.
> >
> >   Roadmaps can be changed. Or be short-termed. I think it'd be nice
to
> >   have a "roadmap" like: "In the next three months, we'll focus on
the
> >   development of a unified XML/XSLT extension."
> >
> > --
> >   Sebastian Bergmann
> >   http://sebastian-bergmann.de/
> http://phpOpenTracker.de/
> >
> >   Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-
> bergmann.de/
> >
> > --
> > PHP Development Mailing List 
> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ivan Ristic]

> Hmm, this sounds somewhat like "evolutional model" vs. "non-evolutional, 
> but perfectly planned". At least for me all evolutional development 
> attempts work much better. I need three, four versions until I've 
> reached production level, so there's nothing wrong for me even with 
> totally different developments.

  I do not believe in plans carved in stone either. Plans can and
  should change but I would argue that simply having a plan
  is much more efficient than not having it.

--
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[ Weblog on PHP, Software development, Intranets,
and Knowledge Management: http://www.webkreator.com ]


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[PHP-DEV] domxml memory issue diff

[Rob Richards]

for those who had problems with the attachment you can grab it here:
http://www.digarc.com/php_domxml.c.diff

thanks
rob


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[PHP-DEV] Class autoload patch

[Ivan Ristic]

I have written this small patch to support class autoloading. It
is written in the spirit of the unserialize callback (see
http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.unserialize.php) and uses
the same callback function.

Can someone with write access to CVS please commit the patch?

I assume that this is a safe thing to do because the same
mechanism is already in use in the production code.

Example:

 function _autoload($classname) {
 @include_once("class.$classname.php");
 }

 ini_set("unserialize_callback_func", "_autoload");

 // the following will work even if class X has
 // not be defined so far
 $x = new X();

--
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[ Weblog on PHP, Software development, Intranets,
and Knowledge Management: http://www.webkreator.com ]



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Re: [PHP-DEV] Class autoload patch

[Ivan Ristic]

If you are having problems with the attachment from my
previous email, the patch is available for download here:
http://www.webkreator.com/download/class_autoload.patch


> I have written this small patch to support class autoloading. It
> is written in the spirit of the unserialize callback (see
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.unserialize.php) and uses
> the same callback function.
> 
> Can someone with write access to CVS please commit the patch?
> 
> I assume that this is a safe thing to do because the same
> mechanism is already in use in the production code.
> 
> Example:
> 
>  function _autoload($classname) {
>  @include_once("class.$classname.php");
>  }
> 
>  ini_set("unserialize_callback_func", "_autoload");
> 
>  // the following will work even if class X has
>  // not be defined so far
>  $x = new X();

--
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and Knowledge Management: http://www.webkreator.com ]


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[mlwmohawk]

>> I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional 
>> arrays, what sorts of things can you do in Java which can not be done 
>> in PHP? 
>  
> I'm actually curious about the multidimensional arrays point.  Exactly 
> what do you mean?  PHP can obviously do $a[1][2][3][4]... 
 
Maybe it has been fixed. 
 
Take this: 
 
$a[5][1000] 
and  
$b[1000][5] 
 
Which uses more memory? Even though, conceptually, they have the same number of 
elements, $b is FAR more 
inefficient. 
 
AFAIK there are no "multidimentional" arrays in PHP, but the ability to create arrays 
of arrays, which 
while similar in syntax, are different in implementation. 
 
 
 
>  
> -Rasmus 


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[mlwmohawk]

>> I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional 
>> arrays, what sorts of things can you do in Java which can not be done 
>> in PHP? 
>  
> I'm actually curious about the multidimensional arrays point.  Exactly 
> what do you mean?  PHP can obviously do $a[1][2][3][4]... 
 
Maybe it has been fixed. 
 
Take this: 
 
$a[5][1000] 
and  
$b[1000][5] 
 
Which uses more memory? Even though, conceptually, they have the same number of 
elements, $b is FAR more 
inefficient. 
 
AFAIK there are no "multidimentional" arrays in PHP, but the ability to create arrays 
of arrays, which 
while similar in syntax, are different in implementation. 
 
 
 
>  
> -Rasmus 


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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Jani Taskinen]

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:

>I don't think a dictator is needed.  Even if I or someone else was to

I did not mean 'dictator' to be one person but an elected group
of people who decides what goes in what doesn't.

>dictate that PHP was a web-only scripting language, do you really think
>that people would stop working on and using PHP for other things?

Of course not. But currently the image for PHP is that it's ONLY
meant for web scripting. Even as it can be used in various other
places too.

I think it would clean some air too if there was a group which
stands behind the certain main ideas behind PHP. 
Like for example, CS. That issue pops up quite frequently and
somewhat litters the mailing list with these long debates whether
or not PHP should be fully CS or not. If there was some group
which says that no, this will not change, maybe we wouldn't have
to waste time fighting over it? (or some other similar issues)

>We can, and should, be able to reach concensus on these various issues.
>And we definitely need to stay open-minded and not rule out things just
>because it doesn't show up in some roadmap somewhere.  Case in point, the

I did not mean some specific list of things that will be done next or not.
More like a 'road-guide' of general issues. Also, like someone suggested, 
it could contain list of tasks people are currently working on and in 
which release they're targeting their work on. 
For example openssl has something like this:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openssl-dev&m=102304945526862&w=2

They post that STATUS email to their dev-list weekly or so.
(Yes, we have TODO..but who really reads that? :)
I think this kind of status email would be a good thing for us too.
Just needs some person(s) who take care of it..OR, as we have this
nice web scripting language, have a web app where it is edited
and it handles the posting automatically..

>IActiveScript hack.  One thing you would think is marked in stone is that
>PHP is a server-side language and it would never end up sitting alongside
>Javascript embedded in a browser as a client-side language.  Yet it can
>now do this.

Of course, but is this part of the general vision of PHP? :)

>People are going to take PHP where they think it should go.  A roadmap
>marked in stone is going to alienate people and make them less likely to
>go exploring down roads that whoever wrote the roadmap didn't think of.

No roadmap or group or anything can prevent people doing whatever
they like. But what is 'official'? It could prevent duplicate work
and release some eyes,hands,minds to other tasks. And also,
if it contained stuff that never ever will be done, prevent some
useless emails going out? (like this one :)

>It leads to forking of the project, which in itself isn't bad, but it is
>cooler if we can hold things together and work as a group to accomodate
>the various ideas and approaches in a somewhat organized manner.

See above. I would really like to avoid any forking of PHP..but
if you're suggesting that that's the only way to go..fine.
Is the current way of doing things _organized_ ?

--Jani


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[PHP-DEV] PHP_4_2_0 (stable) branch broken on win32

[Edin Kadribasic]

Compile goes fine, but linker stops with:

   Creating library ..\Release_TS/php4ts.lib and object
..\Release_TS/php4ts.exp
COM.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _php_COM_export_as_sink
COM.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _php_COM_dispatch_init
conversion.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
_php_COM_export_object
..\Release_TS\php4ts.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 3 unresolved externals
Error executing link.exe.

Edin


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Jani Taskinen]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:

>Jani Taskinen wrote:
>> Is something/someone preventing anyone from doing all this?
>
>  Look at the discussion that followed the proposition of bundling
>  libxml/libxslt with PHP.

Does bundling anything really solve any problems?
Or does it actually create new ones? IMO, it only does the latter.
Look at mysql for example. Bundling of it didn't really solve
any problem, only released some time from replying to some
people who didn't understand why mysql functions didn't exist
in the PHP they used. It _did_ create new problems with some other
modules loaded in Apache, e.g. mod_auth_mysql.

Currently, the bundled mysql is not been updated. (it's 3.23.39)
Latest stable release is 3.23.49, AFAIK.

>> And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things?
>
>  It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend Engine 2.0:
>  interfaces and private methods. Both are not really critical, as they 
>  don't aim at solving technical problems, but social ones during the
>  design process.

PHP != Java. :)

--Jani



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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Zeev Suraski]

At 04:28 PM 6/3/2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional
> >> arrays, what sorts of things can you do in Java which can not be done
> >> in PHP?
> >
> > I'm actually curious about the multidimensional arrays point.  Exactly
> > what do you mean?  PHP can obviously do $a[1][2][3][4]...
>
>Maybe it has been fixed.
>
>Take this:
>
>$a[5][1000]
>and
>$b[1000][5]
>
>Which uses more memory? Even though, conceptually, they have the same 
>number of elements, $b is FAR more
>inefficient.

In PHP, both use the same amount of memory (very little, roughly two zval's 
and two HashTable's).

>  AFAIK there are no "multidimentional" arrays in PHP, but the ability to 
> create arrays of arrays, which
>while similar in syntax, are different in implementation.

Right.

Zeev


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Jani Taskinen]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Björn Schotte wrote:

>Hi,
>
>* Jani Taskinen wrote:
>> What do you mean with 'better release management' ?
>
>Extensions that get broken from one minor release to
>another minor release is not a very good thing.

That's a problem with the lack of proper QA.
And also the lack of 'feeling of ownership' over an
extension. Some extensions have been abandoned by
their initial developer and haven't been picked up
by anyone else..

>> >more complexity to the language itself.
>> Why would making PHP more complex be a good thing?
>
>Because not every web designer and semi-programmer could
>then work with PHP - this lacks the image of PHP. ("PHP
>ist only good for guestbooks and very small applications.",
>most people think)

Any examples? Is PHP too easy to use? :)
I find that hard swallow. It's one of the main features
why I am using PHP. I'm not clever enough to learn 
anything complex. :)

That is why I myself would like to see PHP used everywhere. :)

--Jani



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[PHP-DEV] CVS Account Request: mohgan73

[mohamed said]

education

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Edin Kadribasic]

> >> And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things?
> >
> >  It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend Engine 2.0:
> >  interfaces and private methods. Both are not really critical, as they
> >  don't aim at solving technical problems, but social ones during the
> >  design process.
>
> PHP != Java. :)

Exactly. And please let's keep it that way. Private methods are just another
Java way of oppressing honest developers :)

Edin


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[brad lafountain]

--- Edin Kadribasic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things?
> > >
> > >  It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend Engine 2.0:
> > >  interfaces and private methods. Both are not really critical, as they
> > >  don't aim at solving technical problems, but social ones during the
> > >  design process.
> >
> > PHP != Java. :)
> 

 I'm bother by the fact that you guys keep on saying Php isn't Java so don't
use lets not use private methods or interfaces. Java is Object Oriented. Java
didn't invent private methods, private members and all the other goodies that
go along with OO development. Now good OO design is the best way to get good
code re-use out of your time developing. Adding stuff that will help you design
better objects like private methods will only make php stronger and more
accecptable as a OO soultion.


 Now as far as where php is going. I feel php should do everything it can to
get a more crediable name in other soulitions besides webbased. It definly is
tagged as a web scripting language and it should thats what it was built
around. But we know that php is way more than that we devlop it. PHP is a
strong fast scripting language and should we should start trying to get people
to understand this point.


 - Brad

__
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Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Björn Schotte]

Hi Jani,

> Any examples? Is PHP too easy to use? :)
> I find that hard swallow. It's one of the main features
> why I am using PHP.

Yep, but IMHO it's also one of its main 'bugs' in
the sense of lacking its image.

Web designer, Photoshoppers and every "allrounder"
in small to mid-sized web companies gets an order
from his chief "Here you are, we have to do 'dynamic'
web sites. Make this with PHP." - although the photoshopper
doesn't know how to program at all. So we see questions
arising on the mailing lists and newsgroups regarding
"How do I print something on my web site with PHP?". And
because these people seem to be the majority in these
mailing lists (not only mailing lists especially for PHP
but for "internet working" in general), most suits and
other mailing list subscribers think "Oh what the hell,
PHP is only suitable for small applications like guest
books".

Of course one can prove and promote the opposite by
providing advanced tutorials etc., but this is IMHO
like grist for the mill. I don't have a solution at
all and for now, but that's only what I could observe
in the last year(s).

Regarding the roadmap: I think a "roadmap" like "Expect
new features A, B, C and D in the next three months stable
working" (as already mentioned) would be a great advance.
Something which canalizes the work.

Just my 0,02 EUR, Björn.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Rasmus Lerdorf]

> Of course not. But currently the image for PHP is that it's ONLY
> meant for web scripting. Even as it can be used in various other
> places too.

That has always been our position.  "PHP focuses on the Web problem".
That has been the design roadmap, if you will, from day one.

> I think it would clean some air too if there was a group which
> stands behind the certain main ideas behind PHP.
> Like for example, CS. That issue pops up quite frequently and
> somewhat litters the mailing list with these long debates whether
> or not PHP should be fully CS or not. If there was some group
> which says that no, this will not change, maybe we wouldn't have
> to waste time fighting over it? (or some other similar issues)

Hrm, but as a group we have stated numerous times that this will not
change.  That doesn't seem to have stopped these long threads.  You think
that if we write it down in a document which nobody will read, that will
somehow change things?

I am not against having a roadmap document, of course.  I think it would
be a cool thing to have, I just wonder how useful and accurate it would
be.  It is very hard to predict what things people will be interested in
looking forward.

> They post that STATUS email to their dev-list weekly or so.
> (Yes, we have TODO..but who really reads that? :)

If nobody is reading the TODO, why would they read this roadmap?

> >IActiveScript hack.  One thing you would think is marked in stone is that
> >PHP is a server-side language and it would never end up sitting alongside
> >Javascript embedded in a browser as a client-side language.  Yet it can
> >now do this.
>
> Of course, but is this part of the general vision of PHP? :)

No, PHP's vision is to solve the Web problem, as it has always been.

> No roadmap or group or anything can prevent people doing whatever
> they like. But what is 'official'? It could prevent duplicate work
> and release some eyes,hands,minds to other tasks. And also,
> if it contained stuff that never ever will be done, prevent some
> useless emails going out? (like this one :)

Sometimes duplicate work is good.  Different approaches to the same
problem.  Other times work is duplicated because one approach is moving
quickly enough and someone really needs to solve the problem quickly.  But
yes, the information should be available.  But I still wonder how in the
world you are going to convince everyone to update a file that describes
what they are working on and what they intend to work on.  We can try and
see if it works.  ie. make a decree that thou shall always maintain the
TODO file.

> >It leads to forking of the project, which in itself isn't bad, but it is
> >cooler if we can hold things together and work as a group to accomodate
> >the various ideas and approaches in a somewhat organized manner.
>
> See above. I would really like to avoid any forking of PHP..but
> if you're suggesting that that's the only way to go..fine.
> Is the current way of doing things _organized_ ?

For a very sharp focused vision, you need a small focused team. So yes, in
that sense the only way to get that is to fork PHP and only have a couple
of people working on it.  With a large team of people working on aspects
that interest them, PHP is going to move in several directions at once.
To me this is a good thing.  A few nudges to get everyone to move somewhat
in the same direction is about as much as we can do without basically
telling people to take a hike.

-Rasmus


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Phil Driscoll]

On Monday 03 June 2002 3:35 pm, brad lafountain wrote:

> Now good OO design is the
> best way to get good code re-use out of your time developing.

In your opinion! In my opinion the best way is to think hard and design your 
stuff well. For this I don't need my language fattening up and slowing down 
with OO clutter thank you very much :)

Cheers
-- 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[derick]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, brad lafountain wrote:

>  I'm bother by the fact that you guys keep on saying Php isn't Java so don't
> use lets not use private methods or interfaces. Java is Object Oriented. Java
> didn't invent private methods, private members and all the other goodies that
> go along with OO development. Now good OO design is the best way to get good
> code re-use out of your time developing. Adding stuff that will help you design
> better objects like private methods will only make php stronger and more
> accecptable as a OO soultion.

PHP isn't an OO solution, PHP is a just a tool for a problem. If you think 
that solving webscripting problems with OO 'solutions' is the 'only' way 
to do it then you should use Java as a tool. And you can use a procedural 
aproach for webscripting too, or an OO aproach implemented in a procedural 
language. 

[...]

Derick

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Rasmus Lerdorf]

I have heard this argument a couple of times now.  It basically boils down
to, "PHP is too easy to use which means that non-programmers end up
writing bad code and this hurts PHP".  I find this argument not only
stupid, but extremely offensive.  PHP enables people to bring their ideas
to life even if they know nothing, or very little, about programming.
Stating that this somehow detracts from PHP is nuts!  This is the ultimate
success of PHP and the one thing I am most proud of.

Like the optometrist I met in Australia who had written a complete
optometrist office management system in PHP.  It handled all his patient
records, stored retinal photos, handled billing, etc.  This guy was an eye
doctor, not a programmer.  Obviously a bright guy, but as he explained to
me, he really did not have time to work out how to use other "more
complex" solutions.  He could figure PHP out.  And yes, looking at his
code, there were a lot of problems, but the point is that he was able to
use his unique knowledge to build a tool that solved his problem.  Stating
that the language should be obfuscated to not allow the eye doctor to
build this application is absolutely insane.  No "programmer" out there is
going to know what requirements an optometrist has.  You need people with
specialized knoweledge to write specialized software.  Providing a tool
that broadens the size of the pool of specialists able to do this can only
be a good thing.

If all software was written by programmers we would only have Mandelbrot
and prime number generators.

-Rasmus

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, [iso-8859-1] Björn Schotte wrote:

> Hi Jani,
>
> > Any examples? Is PHP too easy to use? :)
> > I find that hard swallow. It's one of the main features
> > why I am using PHP.
>
> Yep, but IMHO it's also one of its main 'bugs' in
> the sense of lacking its image.
>
> Web designer, Photoshoppers and every "allrounder"
> in small to mid-sized web companies gets an order
> from his chief "Here you are, we have to do 'dynamic'
> web sites. Make this with PHP." - although the photoshopper
> doesn't know how to program at all. So we see questions
> arising on the mailing lists and newsgroups regarding
> "How do I print something on my web site with PHP?". And
> because these people seem to be the majority in these
> mailing lists (not only mailing lists especially for PHP
> but for "internet working" in general), most suits and
> other mailing list subscribers think "Oh what the hell,
> PHP is only suitable for small applications like guest
> books".
>
> Of course one can prove and promote the opposite by
> providing advanced tutorials etc., but this is IMHO
> like grist for the mill. I don't have a solution at
> all and for now, but that's only what I could observe
> in the last year(s).
>
> Regarding the roadmap: I think a "roadmap" like "Expect
> new features A, B, C and D in the next three months stable
> working" (as already mentioned) would be a great advance.
> Something which canalizes the work.
>
> Just my 0,02 EUR, Björn.
>
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RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Lukas Smith]

I agree 100% with Rasmus
I also agree with what Björn said regarding roadmaps

Best regards,
Lukas Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> -Original Message-
> From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:50 PM
> To: Björn Schotte
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision
> 
> I have heard this argument a couple of times now.  It basically boils
down
> to, "PHP is too easy to use which means that non-programmers end up
> writing bad code and this hurts PHP".  I find this argument not only
> stupid, but extremely offensive.  PHP enables people to bring their
ideas
> to life even if they know nothing, or very little, about programming.
> Stating that this somehow detracts from PHP is nuts!  This is the
ultimate
> success of PHP and the one thing I am most proud of.
> 
> Like the optometrist I met in Australia who had written a complete
> optometrist office management system in PHP.  It handled all his
patient
> records, stored retinal photos, handled billing, etc.  This guy was an
eye
> doctor, not a programmer.  Obviously a bright guy, but as he explained
to
> me, he really did not have time to work out how to use other "more
> complex" solutions.  He could figure PHP out.  And yes, looking at his
> code, there were a lot of problems, but the point is that he was able
to
> use his unique knowledge to build a tool that solved his problem.
Stating
> that the language should be obfuscated to not allow the eye doctor to
> build this application is absolutely insane.  No "programmer" out
there is
> going to know what requirements an optometrist has.  You need people
with
> specialized knoweledge to write specialized software.  Providing a
tool
> that broadens the size of the pool of specialists able to do this can
only
> be a good thing.
> 
> If all software was written by programmers we would only have
Mandelbrot
> and prime number generators.
> 
> -Rasmus
> 
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, [iso-8859-1] Björn Schotte wrote:
> 
> > Hi Jani,
> >
> > > Any examples? Is PHP too easy to use? :)
> > > I find that hard swallow. It's one of the main features
> > > why I am using PHP.
> >
> > Yep, but IMHO it's also one of its main 'bugs' in
> > the sense of lacking its image.
> >
> > Web designer, Photoshoppers and every "allrounder"
> > in small to mid-sized web companies gets an order
> > from his chief "Here you are, we have to do 'dynamic'
> > web sites. Make this with PHP." - although the photoshopper
> > doesn't know how to program at all. So we see questions
> > arising on the mailing lists and newsgroups regarding
> > "How do I print something on my web site with PHP?". And
> > because these people seem to be the majority in these
> > mailing lists (not only mailing lists especially for PHP
> > but for "internet working" in general), most suits and
> > other mailing list subscribers think "Oh what the hell,
> > PHP is only suitable for small applications like guest
> > books".
> >
> > Of course one can prove and promote the opposite by
> > providing advanced tutorials etc., but this is IMHO
> > like grist for the mill. I don't have a solution at
> > all and for now, but that's only what I could observe
> > in the last year(s).
> >
> > Regarding the roadmap: I think a "roadmap" like "Expect
> > new features A, B, C and D in the next three months stable
> > working" (as already mentioned) would be a great advance.
> > Something which canalizes the work.
> >
> > Just my 0,02 EUR, Björn.
> >
> > --
> > PHP Development Mailing List 
> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Björn Schotte]

* Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>  I find this argument not only
> stupid, but extremely offensive.

I don't want to offense those people out there that use
PHP but don't know how to program at all. I only want to
share my observations I've made in the last year(s). As
already said, I don't have a solution to this problem, but
I only see the lacking of PHP's image because of these
effects.

> use his unique knowledge to build a tool that solved his problem.  Stating
> that the language should be obfuscated to not allow the eye doctor to
> build this application is absolutely insane.

I don't want to obfuscate PHP in order to not allow the
eye doctor to use PHP.

Björn.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[salna]

> > > PHP != Java. :)
>  I'm bother by the fact that you guys keep on saying Php isn't Java 
so don't
> use lets not use private methods or interfaces. Java is Object 
Oriented. Java
> didn't invent private methods, private members and all the other 
goodies that
> go along with OO development. Now good OO design is the best way to 
get good


just look at the most known opensource web applications written in 
php. how many of them are coded not using objects?
the ones that don't use objects are most likely coming from the old 
php3 times, like phpmyadmin.

so developers are eager to use oop features of php, despite the fact 
that php is not very OO friendly.

pukomuko


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RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Lukas Smith]

I think the people that you talk about dont check what people ask in
newsgroups or mailinglists.

These are the types of people that read some business mag to find the
answers to their technical problems. And getting those business mags to
write favourably about PHP is a totally different thing.

There you have to advertise PHP as a complete solution (as someone else
already mentioned: cluster and failover capabilities etc), that has a
transparent vision (roadmap aka .. what is currently worked on - what
can be expected for the next couple of months in terms of new stuff).
There stuff like Zend or Maguma (I wonder why none of them read this
list and said that they want to make PHP Enterprise ready ...) can help.
And then you need to be lucky enough to have a guy writing that looks at
the reality of things and not at what someone proclaims to be the latest
buzz.

Best regards,
Lukas Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 Germany
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 Fax  : +49 30 83 22 50 07
 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Björn Schotte [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:59 PM
> To: Rasmus Lerdorf
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision
> 
> * Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >  I find this argument not only
> > stupid, but extremely offensive.
> 
> I don't want to offense those people out there that use
> PHP but don't know how to program at all. I only want to
> share my observations I've made in the last year(s). As
> already said, I don't have a solution to this problem, but
> I only see the lacking of PHP's image because of these
> effects.
> 
> > use his unique knowledge to build a tool that solved his problem.
> Stating
> > that the language should be obfuscated to not allow the eye doctor
to
> > build this application is absolutely insane.
> 
> I don't want to obfuscate PHP in order to not allow the
> eye doctor to use PHP.
> 
> Björn.
> 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: User-space functionality of apache2filter

[Aaron Bannert]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 01:27:11PM +0200, Melvyn Sopacua wrote:
> I've got a testserver setup, but can't put it in production, because of:
> a) the load thing - not too bad, but still
> b) breaking of the SIGS, meaning I can't restart apache.

Can you go in to more details here? What kind of load probems are you seeing?
Also, by SIGS do you mean signals? Are you unable to do graceful restart?
(Graceful restart works fine for me, but it may not work everywhere.)

> I do however want to run apache2 on some sites, especially in a threaded 
> model,
> so - what would I be able to do, apart from coding C, to make it easier for
> you guys to fix and track down the problems.

Thanks for the offer. Just use it however you see fit an report any problems
(or successes). :)

-aaron

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RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Zeev Suraski]

At 06:03 PM 6/3/2002, Lukas Smith wrote:
>(I wonder why none of them read this
>list and said that they want to make PHP Enterprise ready ...)

You're kidding, right?  (it doesn't mean that that's what we're going to do).

Zeev


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RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Lukas Smith]

> >(I wonder why none of them read this
> >list and said that they want to make PHP Enterprise ready ...)
> 
> You're kidding, right?  (it doesn't mean that that's what we're going
to
> do).

yeah :-)
Well they seemed quite vocal at lasts php-conference about their
"vision" and it would seem to be the perfect opportunity to jump up and
shout it out once more.

Best regards,
Lukas Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 10553 Berlin
 Germany
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 Fax  : +49 30 83 22 50 07
 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Zeev Suraski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 5:12 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision
> 
> At 06:03 PM 6/3/2002, Lukas Smith wrote:
> 
> Zeev
> 
> 
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[PHP-DEV] Pb With SNMP under Linux (PHP 4.2.1)

[exo ludo]

I have a problem with SNMP.

Under Windows (Windows XP + PHP 4.2.1 + UCD-SNMP 4.2.5 + Apache 1.3.24) it works fine :

ex : snmpget("localhost", "public", ".1.3.6.1.2.1.2.2.1.6.1"); returns 
"0:5:18:15:34:0".

But under Linux (RedHat 7.2 + PHP 4.2.1 + UCD-SNMP 4.2.5 + Apache 1.3.24) it's strange 
: 

ex : snmpget("localhost", "public", ".1.3.6.1.2.1.2.2.1.6.1"); returns 
"interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifPhysAddress.1 = 0:5:18:15:34:0".

 

My question : why ???

 

Ludo_



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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: User-space functionality of apache2filter

[Melvyn Sopacua]

At 17:04 3-6-2002, Aaron Bannert shared with all of us:

>On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 01:27:11PM +0200, Melvyn Sopacua wrote:
> > I've got a testserver setup, but can't put it in production, because of:
> > a) the load thing - not too bad, but still
> > b) breaking of the SIGS, meaning I can't restart apache.
>
>Can you go in to more details here? What kind of load probems are you seeing?
>Also, by SIGS do you mean signals? Are you unable to do graceful restart?
>(Graceful restart works fine for me, but it may not work everywhere.)

The details are in these to reports:
http://bugs.php.net/?id=17575
http://bugs.php.net/?id=17566

> > I do however want to run apache2 on some sites, especially in a threaded
> > model,
> > so - what would I be able to do, apart from coding C, to make it easier for
> > you guys to fix and track down the problems.
>
>Thanks for the offer. Just use it however you see fit an report any problems
>(or successes). :)

Will do :-)


Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,

IDG.nl
Melvyn Sopacua
Webmaster


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[brad lafountain]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, brad lafountain wrote:
> 
> >  I'm bother by the fact that you guys keep on saying Php isn't Java so
> don't
> > use lets not use private methods or interfaces. Java is Object Oriented.
> Java
> > didn't invent private methods, private members and all the other goodies
> that
> > go along with OO development. Now good OO design is the best way to get
> good
> > code re-use out of your time developing. Adding stuff that will help you
> design
> > better objects like private methods will only make php stronger and more
> > accecptable as a OO soultion.
> 
> PHP isn't an OO solution, PHP is a just a tool for a problem. If you think 
> that solving webscripting problems with OO 'solutions' is the 'only' way 
> to do it then you should use Java as a tool. And you can use a procedural 
> aproach for webscripting too, or an OO aproach implemented in a procedural 
> language. 

 I wasn't saying that OO is the only way to solve the problem. To me OO
soultion is not only cleaner/eaiser to read but it makes a libary eaiser to
use. I'm not talking about just webscripting. Having better OO support will
allow libary designers to be able to create more re-useable Objects for
scripting or application server or gui components.


It's kinda frustrating to me, I like php alot and php defintly has the
potentional to be used for a wide virity of soultions. Then you guys are going
back and forth saying that OO design has a minimanl affect on the community and
that OO is clutter. Responses like if you want good OO support use Java? What
is that. Why do you say these things. The php/zend engine is pretty damn strong
why are you guys looking at it so narrowly. I honistly would like to see php
become a more popular soulition than Java in every siuation. Enterprise,
websites, or a eye doctor for an internal applicaiton. And i can be.

When people at work ask me "how long would it take do to x". I first think how
long it would take me to do in php. Php is my first tool of choice.

Php isn't java but i think it can be way better than java too.

 - Brad


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Jani Taskinen wrote:
> Currently, the bundled mysql is not been updated. (it's 3.23.39)
> Latest stable release is 3.23.49, AFAIK.

  I am told that Monty will see to it that Zak gets it updated before the
  next release :-)

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Zeev Suraski wrote:
> Amen to that!

  Why does Kristian recieve an "Amen to that!" for saying the same things
  I did? :-)

  (Maybe the padavan should express himself more clearly.)

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Zeev Suraski]

At 06:43 PM 6/3/2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
>Zeev Suraski wrote:
> > Amen to that!
>
>   Why does Kristian recieve an "Amen to that!" for saying the same things
>   I did? :-)

Hmm, because he's bigger? :)

Zeev


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[derick]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, brad lafountain wrote:

[...]

> It's kinda frustrating to me, I like php alot and php defintly has the
> potentional to be used for a wide virity of soultions. Then you guys are going
> back and forth saying that OO design has a minimanl affect on the community and
> that OO is clutter. Responses like if you want good OO support use Java? What
> is that. Why do you say these things. The php/zend engine is pretty damn strong
> why are you guys looking at it so narrowly. I honistly would like to see php
> become a more popular soulition than Java in every siuation. Enterprise,
> websites, or a eye doctor for an internal applicaiton. And i can be.

The Zend engine is pretty strong, except for OO things, as it was not 
designed with that in mind. Now I don't think OO is clutter, it's quite 
nice, but IMO there are other things more important (for example the 1178 
open bug reports) then private methods.

Derick

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RE: [PHP-DEV] changed behavior of shutdown-registered function in 4.0.x->4.1.x (conn. handling)

[Joseph Tate]

Please do not cross post.

The register_shutdown_function bug has been open for quite some time:  See
bug #15209 at http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=15209.  I work with the
original poster, and have access to his patch that seems to fix the problem.
I'm working on it today, and hopefully will have a fix soon.

Joseph

> -Original Message-
> From: Tamas Arpad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:58 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [PHP-DEV] changed behavior of shutdown-registered function in
> 4.0.x->4.1.x (conn. handling)
>
>
> Hi,
> I use register_shutdown_function to regenerate my content-cache's
> data after the old page were sent. In 4.0.6 there was no problem with
> it, the connection was closed after the normal script is finished,
> and before the shutdown_registered function is started (which does
> the real work). So I could use it for gaining a "fake" speed in
> delivering pages, and it really made our system faster because only
> one process can regenerate the page in a time, the others simply
> return the old content.
>
> But unfortunatelly this doesn't work since 4.1.x, because after the
> normal script finishes it still holds the "line". It doesn't close
> the connection, so the browser is still waiting for data (and the
> http process is being held too).
> Is there any php.ini setting or switch for configure that I can use
> for turning off this behavior? Or is there any other reason why it
> works this way for me? If I copy the old (4.0.6) php module over the
> new one (4.1.1) it works fine.
> For the dev list: Is there any real reason for this way of connection
> handling, or it's just a side-effect of some other featuer?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>   Arpi
>
> p.s.:sorry for mailing this to the dev list too, but I don't know
> where can I find somebody who can help
>
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Zeev Suraski wrote:
> Hmm, because he's bigger? :)

  I can live with that :)

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Re: [PHP-DEV] changed behavior of shutdown-registered function in 4.0.x->4.1.x (conn. handling)

[Tamas Arpad]

On Monday 03 June 2002 18:05, Joseph Tate wrote:
> Please do not cross post.
>
> The register_shutdown_function bug has been open for quite some
> time:  See bug #15209 at http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=15209.  I
> work with the original poster, and have access to his patch that
> seems to fix the problem. I'm working on it today, and hopefully
> will have a fix soon.
>
Hi Joseph,
Thanks for your help. I saw this bug report a few months ago, but 
couldn't find it now, and thought that maybe it was fixed. I'll try 
that patch.

Thanks,
Arpi

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Zak Greant]

On Mon, 2002-06-03 at 09:39, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
> Jani Taskinen wrote:
> > Currently, the bundled mysql is not been updated. (it's 3.23.39)
> > Latest stable release is 3.23.49, AFAIK.
> 
>   I am told that Monty will see to it that Zak gets it updated before the
>   next release :-)

  Yep. I started work on it again on the plane to Germany. I am using a
  script to handle the work so that it will be easier and faster in the
  future.
 
  --zak


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Ilia A.]

John,

If your authentication class holds the passwords inside wouldn't running the 
'strings' utility on the file reveal all the passwords even if the php script 
is Zend Encoded?

Ilia

On June 3, 2002 04:44 am, John Lim wrote:
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> Unfortunately some people are paranoid about security.
>
> We might not want people to fiddle around with the internals of a class,
> for example
> an authentication class which holds the passwords of users. Even if the
> whole web site
> is  Zend Encoded, doing a var_dump on $GLOBALS will reveal a lot about .the
> site.
>
> Regards, John
>
> "Sebastian Bergmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > John Lim wrote:
> > > Private members and methods are essential from a security view-point,
> >
> >   Why? They solve social issues between developers.
> >
> > > and perhaps application variables, but that's about it.
> >
> >   SRM adds Application Variables to the PHP Platform.
> >
> > --
> >   Sebastian Bergmann
> >   http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/
> >
> >   Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Andi Gutmans]

At 03:27 PM 6/3/2002 +0300, Jani Taskinen wrote:
>On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote:
>
> >> >the web but more for Enterprise transaction based applications such as
> >> >billing systems.
> >>
> >> Twisting your words a bit: You don't think PHP should be used for such
> >> tasks ??
> >
> >No I definitely don't. And in most cases I wouldn't use J2EE either but I'd
> >use a C++ App server. There are also performance problems with J2EE App
> >servers but often company's clients require J2EE.
>
> Would you write that C++ App server yourself or use some existing one?
> (just wondering whether there is some open source c++ app server 
> around..)

Most people I know who are working in these kind of demanding environments 
(soft real-time requirements) have written these themselves. I don't know 
of any open source ones except for ACE which isn't a complete app server 
but gives you a framework to start on.
BEA's Tuxedo is a commercial example.

Andi


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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Melvyn Sopacua]

At 17:52 3-6-2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] shared with all of us:

>The Zend engine is pretty strong, except for OO things, as it was not
>designed with that in mind. Now I don't think OO is clutter, it's quite
>nice, but IMO there are other things more important (for example the 1178
>open bug reports) then private methods.

+1.

As a user, making web-applications and surrounding code, to tie stuff 
together I don't see, why 'better OO support' means adding private 
vars/methods.
IMO this is indeed code clutter - if somebody decided to use a method 
marked as private
in the comments, it's his problem. If people don't warn about a method 
being private
the same applies. If you store plain-text passwords in your code, and claim 
security
problem, you don't get the term security.

Better OO support to me, means bringing down the overhead when using 
multiple instances,
and the ability to declare static resource pointers in a parent class, so 
resources don't
need to be re-opened, when an extended object instance is created.

On another note - one of php's strengths that isn't mentioned, is 
x-platform development.
Lately issues have arrived that break that (win32 mail, mac osx 
compilation, mkdir bsd segfault, resolver function detection) - if anything 
needs more focus, it's that selling point, because the 'run-anywhere' 
buzzword, is the one that sells to managers more than OO support.

Yes - I'm aware that takes a lot of testing and people with access to 
different machines, which returns me to issue of involving QA more during 
development rather than at RC time.
You can run automated tests, but can you run them on every platform you 
want to be able to support?


Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,

IDG.nl
Melvyn Sopacua
Webmaster


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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ilia A.]

On June 3, 2002 08:02 am, Ivan Ristic wrote:
>   ...very good example of how a lot of effort has been wasted with
>   multiple implementations of the same thing. The ability to choose
>   is a good thing but we do not have spare programming resources
>   to allow this.

PHP is for the most part written by volunteers who contribute code/extensions 
which are based on their needs or were solutions to the problems they've come 
across when working with PHP. You cannot tell those people what to do, 
certainly the PHP Core Developers can reject the patch, but that's about it.

Ilia

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Ilia A.]

> just look at the most known opensource web applications written in
> php. how many of them are coded not using objects?
> the ones that don't use objects are most likely coming from the old
> php3 times, like phpmyadmin.
>
> so developers are eager to use oop features of php, despite the fact
> that php is not very OO friendly.

Objects in nice and dandy and all that, but often are overused and used where 
a simple function would work just as well and be faster. In case you did not 
know, using objects/classes does add a certain level of overhead so, it may 
not always be appropriate. If anything I've seen much PHP code written with 
objects just for the sake of using objects, IMHO that is bad design.

Ilia

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[Fwd: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision]

[Brian Foddy]

  I admit I haven't been following this thread closely, but I agree and

don't think PHP should be trying to write a transaction system itself.
I do think it should try to interface with existing systems tho so
PHP can become the front-end for them.

I have a good start on a Tuxedo interface (php-tuxedo.sourceforge.net)
if you are interested.

Brian

Andi Gutmans wrote:

> At 03:27 PM 6/3/2002 +0300, Jani Taskinen wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote:
>>
>> >> >the web but more for Enterprise transaction based applications 
>> such as
>> >> >billing systems.
>> >>
>> >> Twisting your words a bit: You don't think PHP should be used 
>> for such
>> >> tasks ??
>> >
>> >No I definitely don't. And in most cases I wouldn't use J2EE either 
>> but I'd
>> >use a C++ App server. There are also performance problems with J2EE App
>> >servers but often company's clients require J2EE.
>>
>> Would you write that C++ App server yourself or use some existing 
>> one?
>> (just wondering whether there is some open source c++ app server 
>> around..)
>
>
> Most people I know who are working in these kind of demanding 
> environments (soft real-time requirements) have written these 
> themselves. I don't know of any open source ones except for ACE which 
> isn't a complete app server but gives you a framework to start on.
> BEA's Tuxedo is a commercial example.
>
> Andi
>
>





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Re: [PHP-DEV] libxml bundling

[Shane Caraveo]

> 
> I indeed like to see some proof that it is used so widely. You state that 
> XML is widely used, but I really think that this is only true for a small 
> part of the people who work with PHP. This does not mean I don't see value 
> in XML, it's certainly usefull... but that doesn't warrant bundling it and 
> enforcing it for users who don't want or need it.
> 

xml is already bundled.  We're idea was more about moving from xpat to 
libxml2.



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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[Shane Caraveo]

> Making PHP work a certain way because a specific platform doesn't have the
> different items should not be a deciding factor.  

wrong.  It's absolutely a major factor.

Shane


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[PHP-DEV] Re: PHP's vision

[Andi Gutmans]

Hey,

I don't think we need a whole new vision for PHP. PHP's vision has always 
been "to be the best web scripting language out there with a focus on ease 
of use". I think for most of us this hasn't changed. Sure it's cute that 
you can do other things with it but let's be realistic; the focus of PHP is 
the web and PHP is competing in the web applications market. I guess as a 
hypothetical goal we should aim for 100% of dynamic web applications being 
run on PHP.

I think that writing down what we should be doing in the next few months to 
take PHP one step further could be nice, but as Rasmus said, someone's 
going to have to do the work.
I also think that writing a roadmap might just lead to 10,000 Email's being 
sent about all the cool features people want from 1000 different languages 
and we'd have a huge list and no code. Well maybe 10 of those would make it 
in to a release.
I think setting up the php-soap@ list was a good first step. It's getting 
people to discuss things and hopefully we'll have *one* native SOAP 
implementation in the default PHP relatively soon. Hopefully there will be 
a consensus on that list on how to move forward. It'd be a shame if 
there'll be zillions of Email threads but no official SOAP, XML, XSLT, 
DOM/XML layer.

Important things I think should be addressed in the next few months are:
- A native and official "Web services" implementation. For those of you who 
hate the general term I'm talking about SOAP, WDSL, UDDI and strong 
DOM/XML, XSLT, XML support.
- Improved scripting language (I've already packaged an alpha of ZE2 w/ 
PHP-4.3.0-dev and will put it up in the next couple of days so people can 
play around with it). It might not cover everyone's wishes but it does 
cover enough to take PHP one step further IMO. Doing too much at once can 
end up being lethal.
- Stable Apache 2 implementation including real connection pooling across 
thread's in MT mode.
- Improving I18N (mostly done by the Japanese group).
- Seeing the evangelism guys come up with some nice ways of marketing PHP. 
I'm including this because I think it's of great importance although it's 
not a technical issue.

I'm sure you guys can think of a million things but if I'd have to pick big 
main topics I think these would be them.

Andi


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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ivan Ristic]

> PHP is for the most part written by volunteers who contribute
code/extensions
> which are based on their needs or were solutions to the problems they've
come
> across when working with PHP. You cannot tell those people what to do,
> certainly the PHP Core Developers can reject the patch, but that's about
it.

  If people want to become a part of a larger entity then they must
  give up some of their individuality. This is happening already
  but only for low level issues (e.g. case sensitivity). I am arguing to
  do the same for other important aspects of the PHP technology.

  Otherwise, PHP will be a boat where everyone paddles independently. Sure,
  we are moving - but where to? We should all agree that there is a really
  nice green island in front of us, join forces, and simply go there.

--
Ivan Ristic, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ Weblog on PHP, Software development, Intranets,
and Knowledge Management: http://www.webkreator.com ]



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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ilia A.]

On June 3, 2002 01:47 pm, Ivan Ristic wrote:
> > PHP is for the most part written by volunteers who contribute
>
> code/extensions
>
> > which are based on their needs or were solutions to the problems they've
>
> come
>
> > across when working with PHP. You cannot tell those people what to do,
> > certainly the PHP Core Developers can reject the patch, but that's about
>
> it.
>
>   If people want to become a part of a larger entity then they must
>   give up some of their individuality. This is happening already
>   but only for low level issues (e.g. case sensitivity). I am arguing to
>   do the same for other important aspects of the PHP technology.

Ultimately it is the job of the Core Developers to accept or decline patches, 
as the end user you of course can choose to compile or not compile a module 
you dislike. If you are diluding yourself into thinking that people will 
voluntarily code what they are 'told' to code, they'll do what they like/need 
or not do it at all.
At least from my personal experience all the work I've done involving PHP 
source came from having a certain need PHP could not adequantly fulfill in my 
mind. To that effect I've added additional code, some of which was accepted 
into the main tree and some of it had not. That is how Open Source 
development goes, this is a not a commercial venture where the programmers 
get payed to accomplish a certain goal set by the company.

Ilia

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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ivan Ristic]

> Ultimately it is the job of the Core Developers to accept or decline
patches,
> as the end user you of course can choose to compile or not compile a
module
> you dislike. If you are diluding yourself into thinking that people will
> voluntarily code what they are 'told' to code, they'll do what they
like/need
> or not do it at all.

  I would not say that 'telling' people is the way to go. We need
  leadership, and someone to sell the vision of 'better life with
  PHP' to people.


> At least from my personal experience all the work I've done involving PHP
> source came from having a certain need PHP could not adequantly fulfill
> in my mind.

  Agreed. But there are positive sides to Open Source: there are
  thousands of developers out there. Chances are, no matter where you
  decide to take PHP, someone will want to go there.

  I like working on my own, for example, but I have decided to
  put my efforts into PEAR because that will benefit the community
  more then releasing 'yet another ACME PHP libary' to satisfy
  my ego.

Bye,
Ivan


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[PHP-DEV] --with-gd=php + sapi/cli = broken

[Sebastian Bergmann]

ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.lo: In function `gdImagePngToSink':
/usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.c:23: undefined reference to
`gdImagePngCtx'
ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.lo: In function `gdImageCreateFromPngSource':
/usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.c:33: undefined reference to
`gdImageCreateFrom
PngCtx'
ext/gd/libgd/gd_topal.lo: In function `gdImageTrueColorToPalette':
/usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_topal.c:1577: undefined reference to
`gdImagePng'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [sapi/cli/php] Error 1

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  http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Error with pspell

[Vlad Krupin]

I believe you would have to complain to Kevin Atkinson about that 
(author of pspell), but I think he has a good reason for doing it the 
way he did, so chances are it won't change.

Anyway, not a PHP problem, AFAICS.

Vlad

Magnus M@ wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I wrote a function that will spellcheck $var.
>My problem is that if $var contain ' it will
>report that it's wronly spelled like this:
>
>Possible spelling for I\'ve : I've Ive...
>
>
>Regards
>Magnus Määttä
> 
>


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Software Engineer
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Re: [PHP-DEV] --with-gd=php + sapi/cli = broken

[Rasmus Lerdorf]

Yup, known.  It is on the list of things to be fixed before 4.3.  I think
the problem is actually pretty simple.  HAVE_LIBPNG is not making it into
libgd from the configure stuff.  Should be a simple fix for anybody
interested.

-Rasmus

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:

> ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.lo: In function `gdImagePngToSink':
> /usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.c:23: undefined reference to
> `gdImagePngCtx'
> ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.lo: In function `gdImageCreateFromPngSource':
> /usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.c:33: undefined reference to
> `gdImageCreateFrom
> PngCtx'
> ext/gd/libgd/gd_topal.lo: In function `gdImageTrueColorToPalette':
> /usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_topal.c:1577: undefined reference to
> `gdImagePng'
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make: *** [sapi/cli/php] Error 1
>
> --
>   Sebastian Bergmann
>   http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/
>
>   Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/
>
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[PHP-DEV] Any chance of php_pear.dll?

[Michael Dransfield]

Is there any chance of including php_pear into the latest snap at 
snaps.php.net ??

I know it is very beta... but id at least like to experiment on my windows 
machine

I notice you have included dotnet stuff, but not your own

Pleea ;)

Mike


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Re: [PHP-DEV] --with-gd=php + sapi/cli = broken

[Markus Fischer]

http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=17244&edit=1

:)

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 09:15:05PM +0200, Sebastian Bergmann wrote : 
> ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.lo: In function `gdImagePngToSink':
> /usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.c:23: undefined reference to
> `gdImagePngCtx'
> ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.lo: In function `gdImageCreateFromPngSource':
> /usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_ss.c:33: undefined reference to
> `gdImageCreateFrom
> PngCtx'
> ext/gd/libgd/gd_topal.lo: In function `gdImageTrueColorToPalette':
> /usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gd_topal.c:1577: undefined reference to
> `gdImagePng'
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make: *** [sapi/cli/php] Error 1

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[PHP-DEV] changed behavior of shutdown-registered function in 4.0.x->4.1.x (conn. handling)

[Tamas Arpad]

Hi,
I use register_shutdown_function to regenerate my content-cache's 
data after the old page were sent. In 4.0.6 there was no problem with 
it, the connection was closed after the normal script is finished, 
and before the shutdown_registered function is started (which does 
the real work). So I could use it for gaining a "fake" speed in 
delivering pages, and it really made our system faster because only 
one process can regenerate the page in a time, the others simply 
return the old content.

But unfortunatelly this doesn't work since 4.1.x, because after the 
normal script finishes it still holds the "line". It doesn't close 
the connection, so the browser is still waiting for data (and the 
http process is being held too).
Is there any php.ini setting or switch for configure that I can use 
for turning off this behavior? Or is there any other reason why it 
works this way for me? If I copy the old (4.0.6) php module over the 
new one (4.1.1) it works fine.
For the dev list: Is there any real reason for this way of connection 
handling, or it's just a side-effect of some other featuer?

Thanks for your help,
Arpi

p.s.:sorry for mailing this to the dev list too, but I don't know 
where can I find somebody who can help

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[PHP-DEV] Re: PHP_4_2_0 (stable) branch broken on win32

[Harald Radi]

fixed.

harald

"Edin Kadribasic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:<014201c20b04$d235a160$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Compile goes fine, but linker stops with:
> 
>Creating library ..\Release_TS/php4ts.lib and object 
> ..\Release_TS/php4ts.exp COM.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external 
> symbol _php_COM_export_as_sink COM.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved 
> external symbol _php_COM_dispatch_init conversion.obj : error LNK2001:

> unresolved external symbol _php_COM_export_object
> ..\Release_TS\php4ts.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 3 unresolved externals
> Error executing link.exe.
> 
> Edin
> 


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[PHP-DEV] Are the tests supposed to work?

[fabwash]

ext/standard/tests/aggregation/aggregate.phpt calls "aggregate()" and I don't see that 
documented anywhere. It fails saying that it doesn't exist. (4.2.1)

Fab.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Error with pspell

[Magnus M@gnus]

Ok.. But can't this be overruled somehow in the extension
to trick pspell to think it's just I've instead of I\'ve?


On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:24:16 -0700
Vlad Krupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I believe you would have to complain to Kevin Atkinson about that 
> (author of pspell), but I think he has a good reason for doing it the 
> way he did, so chances are it won't change.
> 
> Anyway, not a PHP problem, AFAICS.
> 
> Vlad
> 
> Magnus M@ wrote:
> 
> >Hi!
> >
> >I wrote a function that will spellcheck $var.
> >My problem is that if $var contain ' it will
> >report that it's wronly spelled like this:
> >
> >Possible spelling for I\'ve : I've Ive...
> >
> >
> >Regards
> >Magnus Määttä
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -- 
> Vlad Krupin
> Software Engineer
> echospace.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

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[PHP-DEV] Funny message

[Michael Stolovitzsky]

Parse error:  parse error, unexpected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in [...] 

With all due respect to Hebrew humour, am I the only one who thinks that the 
above line is confusing to non-Israeli? ;)

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Error with pspell

[Vlad Krupin]

Actually, I did not understand your original email, I guess. Sorry.

If you check a word with a ' character in it, php will pass it unchanged 
to the pspell library. No backslashes inserted. If you are getting a 
backslash inserted there, please check your code and see what you are 
passing to pspell. You might be adding slashes somewhere before you call 
the function. I can not reproduce your problem.

No, it wouldn't be good to 'trick' php by stripping slashes off the 
argument, as you suggest.

Vlad


Magnus M@gnus wrote:

>Ok.. But can't this be overruled somehow in the extension
>to trick pspell to think it's just I've instead of I\'ve?
>
>
>On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:24:16 -0700
>Vlad Krupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>I believe you would have to complain to Kevin Atkinson about that 
>>(author of pspell), but I think he has a good reason for doing it the 
>>way he did, so chances are it won't change.
>>
>>Anyway, not a PHP problem, AFAICS.
>>
>>Vlad
>>
>>Magnus M@ wrote:
>>
>>>Hi!
>>>
>>>I wrote a function that will spellcheck $var.
>>>My problem is that if $var contain ' it will
>>>report that it's wronly spelled like this:
>>>
>>>Possible spelling for I\'ve : I've Ive...
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>Magnus Määttä
>>>
>>>
>>
>>-- 
>>
>>-- 
>>Vlad Krupin
>>Software Engineer
>>echospace.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
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>>
>>
>


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[PHP-DEV] Its time for PHP to grow up

[Michael Dransfield]

I have been watching your discussions regarding xml, PHP's OO support, 
PHP's readiness for the enterprise.

I personally started using PHP NOT because of its ease of use, NOT because 
of the powerfulness of the language... but 1. Because it is free, and 2. 
because of the wide availability of support, tutorials etc.   I chose 
Coldfusion originally because of its ease of use, the tag based language 
was easy to learn if you are used to html.  Then I outgrew basic database 
insert/update operations (guestbook stuff), and Allaire asked me for £800 
plus £300 per year for support, for the non-free version.  Then I found 
PHP.  THEN I found its simplicity/speed of development.  The rest is history...

I am sure that most of you agree that XML has a very big future in the web 
(or even IS the future).  So I think that this should be the current focus 
of activity, if business feels that this is being left behind/fragmented 
they will move to another solution very soon.  They NEED their 
buzzwords something PHP is not interested in promoting (probably for 
good reasons)

MARKETING is what PHP needs - to the enterprise.  Companies are willing to 
pay 1000's of $£Y for an application server, if they can employ PHP 
developers rather than java developers for half the cost... they will jump 
at the chance.   There should be IMHO a seperate site for promotion of PHP 
to the enterprise.  The site can have examples of cost savings using PHP, 
reductions in development times.  The site can act as a shop front for PHP 
Enterprise Version.

I believe that companies will be more than willing to pay whatever you can 
think of for the enterprise benefits like clustering SRM etc... These 
packages could be packaged into an enterprise product, without referencing 
the components individually.  Then adding support, I dont know what kind of 
support is provided by Microsoft (telephone email or otherwise...) email 
support would be easy to provide since there are already support newsgroups 
for every aspect of PHP.

I dont mind heading/hosting of such a project.  I have lots of ideas of how 
to promote PHP, for example, why does nobody approach universities to push 
them to include PHP in their courses?  Java is learnt in university these 
days, why not PHP??

By the time PHP 5 is available we should have a large collection of 
marketing material which can then be used by individuals to promote in 
their own region.  Most of this is already out there, collating this is the 
key.

Regards
Mike

Maybe a change of name for V5 is in order?? It seems to work for M$ It 
could be launched as a BRAND NEW application server... Press launch and 
everything


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Referrences

[Michael Stolovitzsky]

Markus Fischer wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 10:29:19AM +0300, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote :
>> If I understand correctly, given $bar is an object
>> 
>> $foo = $bar
>> 
>> will copy entire contents of $bar into foo. Following question: what
>> happens with $foo = new Foo? Does the object get created, copied into
>> $foo and then destroyed, while the copy in $foo lives?
>> 
>> In other words, is there a performance benefit to do $foo =& new Foo?
> 
> No, it's exactly the other way around with objects, you get a
> slight performance penalty (though it may no be noticeable at
> all).

Mmmm.. how so? *wink wink*. Aren't referrences supposed to be faster than 
copying objects directly? Or did I understand you wrong?

> 
> Currently, not useing the '&' operator will always create a
> new (shallow) copy of the objects.

...right, so the copy operation on all properties (which might be big 
arrays) by assumption should take more overhead than a simple referrence to 
already allocated object.

> 
> This is already addressed with the new Zend Engine 2 which
> will behave as expected (objects aren't copied, they stay
> atomic until explicitely duplicated [cloned]).
> 
> - Markus
> 

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Its time for PHP to grow up

[Rasmus Lerdorf]

> I dont mind heading/hosting of such a project.  I have lots of ideas of how
> to promote PHP, for example, why does nobody approach universities to push
> them to include PHP in their courses?  Java is learnt in university these
> days, why not PHP??

Many universities do.  Some of us have even given guest lectures during
such classes.  But personally I don't think PHP is a good teaching
language.  PHP is a real-world language whose sole purpose is to solve
very real-world problems.  So it is suited for classes that focus on
problem solving and not for classes that try to teach someone solid
programming principles.  Java is a perfectly good teaching language.

And no, I don't buy this marketing angle. PHP is and will be developed by
volunteers who work on things that interest them. Whether "The Enterprise"
decides to use PHP or not is entirely their problem. We cannot possibly
compete with the marketing budgets and golf-course decision making of IBM,
Sun and Microsoft. We can however compete technologically as long as we
stay somewhat focused with our limited resources.

Everyone is in such a rush to fix PHP and make it solve every problem out
there.  PHP is a component of an Enterprise solution, it is not *the*
enterprise solution.  We need to make sure PHP interoperates nicely with
other parts, but building all the functionality directly into PHP violates
the principles of UNIX of small targeted tools that are combined to solve
the larger problem.  I see PHP as such a small targeted tool that we
constantly tweak to get it to interoperate with other tools designed to
address different aspects of the overall problem.

-Rasmus


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Its time for PHP to grow up

[Gabriel Ricard]

Michael Dransfield wrote:

> I believe that companies will be more than willing to pay whatever you 
> can think of for the enterprise benefits like clustering SRM etc... 
> These packages could be packaged into an enterprise product, without 
> referencing the components individually.  Then adding support, I dont 
> know what kind of support is provided by Microsoft (telephone email or 
> otherwise...) email support would be easy to provide since there are 
> already support newsgroups for every aspect of PHP.

I would gladly pay for a PHP application server somewhat like AOLServer. 
If I had a multi-threaded app server, that could load up a library of 
PHP code into memory at startup, pool database connections, provide 
session management and object persistence like SRM, and then let me 
assign URLs (with reg exp's even!) to specific PHP functions or scripts.
And if it had a transport/protocol abstraction that allowed me to use it 
  as a mail server, or ftp server too, so I could assign PHP code to 
reply to emails or customize downloaded files, I don't think I'd ever 
switch to a different system. Oh yeah, and internal timed execution of 
specific PHP functions too.

Then again, I may simply be smoking a lot of crack and be asking for the 
impossible.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] WHAT is PHP's vision????

[Ron Chmara]

Well, quite an interesting thread, with many side points.
My two cents below, with some side threads of their own. ;-/

Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > Of course not. But currently the image for PHP is that it's ONLY
> > meant for web scripting. Even as it can be used in various other
> > places too.
> That has always been our position.  "PHP focuses on the Web problem".
> That has been the design roadmap, if you will, from day one.

A lot of this discussion and debate seems to confuse the problem, "easily
making dynamic web pages", with computer science designs (not having "private"
 is somehow the problem), or architecture decisions (using persistant
 across sessions, or processes, or whatever), or other ancilary
tasks to PHP's core strength. Rather than, oh, make web pages, much of
this discussion (and, it seems, emotion) was expended *not* on PHP making
web pages, but whether or not it did XYZ that a given programmer thinks
is "absolutely essential" for a given (web) language.

If the *problem* is making dynamic web pages, PHP is a great solution,
IMNSHO.

Of course, they're always room for improvements to solving a given
problem, but many of the arguments didn't seem to focus on "this
will make building dynamic web pages easier/faster/simpler", at
least not to my (admittedly jaded) eyes. Instead, the arguments
focused on how different people like to write their code, well,
differently, and suggested changing PHP to match differences, and,
as such, suggested that those matters of preference were problems
to be solved by PHP.

If the problem is "following an OO discipline", one could focus on more
OO-constrained environments, rather than PHP. PHP is not trying to focus
on pleasing an ideal code architecture spec, it's trying to make dynamic
web pages. It does some OO, but "pure OO" isn't related to making dynamic
web pages, so there's no real reason to sidetrack into fighting flamewars
about PHP following "True OO Discipline"... OO is not about making web
pages, it's simply a code style. PHP is about making web pages, not
learning or using OO.

If the problem is "storing something, in a specific fashion, to meet
a given idealized architecture for multiple dynamic pages", one could
investigate the various systems that meet whatever ideals they happen
to have. If the problem is storing something, that another web page
(or the same web page) can use, using a database and PHP can solve
the problem, to some rather absurd scalability limits. PHP is about
making dynamic web pages, not cool architecture diagrams of
"transporting a data object between clusters" (poking fun at Sun,
can you tell?)

If the problem is "using a coding construct that I prefer to write code
in", then one could investigate languages that appeal more to their
specific constructs. If, however, the problem is not with a personal
preference for code constructs, but simply making dynamic web pages,
then PHP is a great tool. It has all the basic primitives needed
to build dynamic pages.

If the problem is "I think a web application should be built and designed
in a specific way", perhaps folks could look at architectures that work
*their* way. If the problem is building complex web applications, with
dynamic web pages, PHP is great for solving that problem. It's not great
for acting like other platforms or languages, because its not... 
different languages are best coded for in different ways, and coding
complex applications for PHP is no exception.

Write code for (not just with, but specifically for) PHP, and it's
great to work with. Try to make PHP into C++, or Perl, or *any other
language or web application platform*, and PHP may seem to have
more "issues", not because it fails to solve the basic problem of
making dynamic web applications, but because it fails to solve the
problem of making dynamic web applications in a given, specific,
way for the individuals who would like PHP to have been designed
differently.

After watching at least 6 programmers "wash out" with PHP, they all
had a similar problem... they wanted PHP to act like their favorite
prior coding environment(s), and any differences were "flaws
in PHP".

They didn't want to deal with PHP's data structures, they wanted
PHP's data structures to behave their preferred way. They didn't
want PHP's variable scope, they wanted variable scope to behave
their preferred way. They didn't want the semi-stateless nature of
web pages, they wanted the server and/or client to be highly stateful
somehow. They didn't want to have, oh, 1 line of code to change
"foo123" to "$array[foo]" and "$array[123]", they wanted a "custom
method operating on the foo's object, with try-catch and a return
of a new object".

The "washed out" programmers didn't want to learn to code *for*
PHP, but simply code *with* PHP, and longed for it to work like
super-foo-platform-x. It didn't, so some complained (as in this
thread??) that it was PHP's failings that stopped them from
making their applic

[PHP-DEV] Apache 2 support

[Venkat Raghavan]

Hi. I'm trying to build the PHP interface to Apache 2 (still mod_php, I
guess). I see an apache2 directory that is empty and an apache2filter
directory. The Readme in the latter says that it "exploits the layered
I/O support in Apache 2.0". Do I need to just build the latter or am I
missing something? Please enlighten.
 
Thanx in advance,
Venkat

Re: [PHP-DEV] socket_select() problems?

[Jason Greene]

That is the most common mistake when using select() (Arguments are
value-result) I think this motivated the different behavior of the
poll() call.

There probably should be a large blurb in the docs to help out with this
one.

-Jason


On Sun, 2002-06-02 at 09:33, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> Yeah, I guess so.  It just isn't very clear how this is mapped to PHP in
> the current docs.  I will write up some better docs.
> 
> -Rasmus
> 
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >
> > > So you save the original array of sockets to pass back in.  This is why
> > > the C API has FD_ISSET() to check the result of a select().  I really
> > > don't like this current behaviour of socket_select().  It will confuse the
> > > hell out of anybody coming at this from a C background.
> >
> > I always thought the C select() function also mangles the sets:
> >
> > (from 'man select')
> >
> >On  exit,  the  sets  are  modified in place to indicate which
> >descriptors actually changed status.
> >
> >
> > regards,
> > Derick
> >
> > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Philip Olson wrote:
> > >
> > > > I only get [0], never [1].  Did about 40 tries.
> > > >
> > > >   latest CVS
> > > >   ./configure --enable-sockets
> > > >
> > > > If you need more info, let me know.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Philip Olson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > PHP Development Mailing List 
> > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> > >
> >
> > ---
> >  Did I help you?   http://www.jdimedia.nl/derick/link.php?url=giftlist
> >  Frequent ranting: http://www.jdimedia.nl/derick/
> > ---
> >  PHP: Scripting the Web - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > All your branches are belong to me!
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> > ---
> >
> >
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> >
> 
> 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] socket_select() problems?

[Jason Greene]

On Mon, 2002-06-03 at 23:07, Jason Greene wrote:
> That is the most common mistake when using select() (Arguments are
> value-result) I think this motivated the different behavior of the
> poll() call.
> 
> There probably should be a large blurb in the docs to help out with this
> one.

I just noticed there is a notice now, oh well. This is what i get for
getting behind with my email. 

-Jason

> -Jason
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2002-06-02 at 09:33, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > Yeah, I guess so.  It just isn't very clear how this is mapped to PHP in
> > the current docs.  I will write up some better docs.
> > 
> > -Rasmus
> > 
> > On Sun, 2 Jun 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > >
> > > > So you save the original array of sockets to pass back in.  This is why
> > > > the C API has FD_ISSET() to check the result of a select().  I really
> > > > don't like this current behaviour of socket_select().  It will confuse the
> > > > hell out of anybody coming at this from a C background.
> > >
> > > I always thought the C select() function also mangles the sets:
> > >
> > > (from 'man select')
> > >
> > >On  exit,  the  sets  are  modified in place to indicate which
> > >descriptors actually changed status.
> > >
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > Derick
> > >
> > > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Philip Olson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I only get [0], never [1].  Did about 40 tries.
> > > > >
> > > > >   latest CVS
> > > > >   ./configure --enable-sockets
> > > > >
> > > > > If you need more info, let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Philip Olson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > PHP Development Mailing List 
> > > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > >  Did I help you?   http://www.jdimedia.nl/derick/link.php?url=giftlist
> > >  Frequent ranting: http://www.jdimedia.nl/derick/
> > > ---
> > >  PHP: Scripting the Web - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > All your branches are belong to me!
> > > SRM: Script Running Machine - www.vl-srm.net
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
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[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 /ext/gd config.m4

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Jani Taskinen wrote:
> sniper  Mon Jun  3 21:13:01 2002 EDT
>
>   Modified files:
> /php4/ext/gdconfig.m4
>   Log:
>   - Made the bundled libgd actually work. Fixed bug: #17244

sb@wopr-mobile:/usr/src/php4> make
/bin/sh libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_LIBPNG
-DHAVE_LIBFREETYPE -Ie
xt/gd/ -I/usr/src/php4/ext/gd/ -DPHP_ATOM_INC -I/usr/src/php4/include
-I/usr/src
/php4/main -I/usr/src/php4 -I/usr/local/apache2/include
-I/usr/src/php4/Zend -I/
usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd -I/usr/include/freetype2/freetype
-I/usr/local/mysql/i
nclude/mysql -I/usr/local/srm/include -I/usr/src/php4/ext/xml/expat 
-D_REENTRAN
T -I/usr/src/php4/TSRM -g -O2 -pthread -DZTS  -prefer-pic -c
/usr/src/php4/ext/g
d/libgd/gdft.c -o ext/gd/libgd/gdft.lo
/usr/src/php4/ext/gd/libgd/gdft.c:43: freetype/ftglyph.h: No such file or
direct
ory
make: *** [ext/gd/libgd/gdft.lo] Error 1

  With '--with-gd' instead of '--with-gd=php' it builds.

-- 
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  http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Error with pspell

[Magnus M]

No, I'm not adding slashes, but somewhere something adding slashes.

I'm using a form with some fields, lets call one of the XYZ and it's
those that I want to be spellchecked. So i send them to a function
I've made for spellchecking $_POST['XYZ']..

Now if $_POST['XYZ'] = I'm having some problems with PSPELL
it will complain that I\'m is wrongly spelled and it should be I'm.

I'm using CVS of PHP and Apache 2..

Magnus


On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:56:46 -0700
Vlad Krupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Actually, I did not understand your original email, I guess. Sorry.
> 
> If you check a word with a ' character in it, php will pass it unchanged 
> to the pspell library. No backslashes inserted. If you are getting a 
> backslash inserted there, please check your code and see what you are 
> passing to pspell. You might be adding slashes somewhere before you call 
> the function. I can not reproduce your problem.
> 
> No, it wouldn't be good to 'trick' php by stripping slashes off the 
> argument, as you suggest.
> 
> Vlad
> 
> 
> Magnus M@gnus wrote:
> 
> >Ok.. But can't this be overruled somehow in the extension
> >to trick pspell to think it's just I've instead of I\'ve?
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:24:16 -0700
> >Vlad Krupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>I believe you would have to complain to Kevin Atkinson about that 
> >>(author of pspell), but I think he has a good reason for doing it the 
> >>way he did, so chances are it won't change.
> >>
> >>Anyway, not a PHP problem, AFAICS.
> >>
> >>Vlad
> >>
> >>Magnus M@ wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi!
> >>>
> >>>I wrote a function that will spellcheck $var.
> >>>My problem is that if $var contain ' it will
> >>>report that it's wronly spelled like this:
> >>>
> >>>Possible spelling for I\'ve : I've Ive...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Regards
> >>>Magnus Määttä
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>Vlad Krupin
> >>Software Engineer
> >>echospace.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-- 
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> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -- 
> Vlad Krupin
> Software Engineer
> echospace.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] socket_select() problems?

[Jason Greene]

Just to clarify the "horrible" interface. Yes, it could have been
written differently, though I did not want to drift to far from the C
API semantics(which I believe are perfectly fine). I posted the API
rewrite agenda(which made it into 4.2.0), several updates, examples,and
answered questions quite awhile ago. 

True the documentation is lacking, though I have not had the time to
work on it. I am planning on spending a lot of time before 4.3.0 because
I would lake to change the status of this extension from EXPERIMENTAL to
STABLE

socket_select() behaves exactly as the select() system call with a few
exceptions.

1. fd_sets are arrys: This means instead of FD_ISSET, use in_array() 
This also allows all the nice/powerful php features, such as using
array_walk()
2. It returns FALSE on error instead of -1
3. It forces you to at least pass one array, because some OS's socket
implementation (namely win32) does not allow select to be used as a wait
call

-Jason



On Sun, 2002-06-02 at 09:33, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> Yeah, I guess so.  It just isn't very clear how this is mapped to PHP in
> the current docs.  I will write up some better docs.
> 
> -Rasmus
> 
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >
> > > So you save the original array of sockets to pass back in.  This is why
> > > the C API has FD_ISSET() to check the result of a select().  I really
> > > don't like this current behaviour of socket_select().  It will confuse the
> > > hell out of anybody coming at this from a C background.
> >
> > I always thought the C select() function also mangles the sets:
> >
> > (from 'man select')
> >
> >On  exit,  the  sets  are  modified in place to indicate which
> >descriptors actually changed status.
> >
> >
> > regards,
> > Derick
> >
> > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Philip Olson wrote:
> > >
> > > > I only get [0], never [1].  Did about 40 tries.
> > > >
> > > >   latest CVS
> > > >   ./configure --enable-sockets
> > > >
> > > > If you need more info, let me know.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Philip Olson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > PHP Development Mailing List 
> > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> > >
> >
> > ---
> >  Did I help you?   http://www.jdimedia.nl/derick/link.php?url=giftlist
> >  Frequent ranting: http://www.jdimedia.nl/derick/
> > ---
> >  PHP: Scripting the Web - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > All your branches are belong to me!
> > SRM: Script Running Machine - www.vl-srm.net
> > ---
> >
> >
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Funny message

[derick]

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote:

> Parse error:  parse error, unexpected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in [...] 
> 
> With all due respect to Hebrew humour, am I the only one who thinks that the 
> above line is confusing to non-Israeli? ;)

I thought it was common knowlegde that this means the double colon :)

Derick

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Funny message

[Rasmus Lerdorf]

Hey, I am a transplanted Canadian Danish Latin Eskimo living in California
and even I know that this obviously means double-colon...

-Rasmus

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote:

> Parse error:  parse error, unexpected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in [...]
>
> With all due respect to Hebrew humour, am I the only one who thinks that the
> above line is confusing to non-Israeli? ;)
>
> --
> - Michael
>
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Apache 2 support

[Justin Erenkrantz]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 10:06:42PM -0600, Venkat Raghavan wrote:
> Hi. I'm trying to build the PHP interface to Apache 2 (still mod_php, I
> guess). I see an apache2 directory that is empty and an apache2filter
> directory. The Readme in the latter says that it "exploits the layered
> I/O support in Apache 2.0". Do I need to just build the latter or am I
> missing something? Please enlighten.

You probably have an out-of-date CVS copy as the apache2 directory
seems to have been deleted.

apache2filter takes advantage of the layered I/O support, but not
as much as it really should.  The code does make some poor
assumptions (i.e. everything is a FILE bucket on output, etc.).

Unless Cliff or Aaron beat me to it, once I get the httpd-2.0
filtering stuff straightened out, I may take a pass at cleaning
up the apache2filter to be more like how the core httpd-2.0
modules are implemented.  -- justin

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