Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Yeah, some of those hotspots I have really grown to hate.

TMobile is currently sending out a hotspot that - and I kid you not - says 
right in the instructions that you must not leave it plugged into the charger 
for more than 8 hours at a time or the battery will overcharge and be ruined.   
They actually enforce this with software on the hotspot that makes it turn off 
if you leave it plugged into the charger.  Apparently the concept of sticking a 
50 cent battery management chip into the device to manage the rechargeable 
Li-Ion battery in the piece of crap was beyond the capabilities of their 
engineers.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Ben Koenig
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 2:32 PM
To: plug@pdxlinux.org
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

Yeah they usually have a couple options, but only a couple. There are some 
really wacky issues from years ago that typically require a software update to 
resolve. Even knowing what the hotspot is currently broadcasting can be helpful 
in narrowing it down or ruling it out.

Try connecting a MBP from 2013/2014 to a wpa 2/3 network and youll see what I 
mean. It works on paper :)

-Ben
Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On May 12, 2023, 2:22 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt < t...@portlandia-it.com> wrote:
-Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Ben Koenig Sent: Friday, May 
12, 2023 5:47 AM To: Portland Linux/Unix Group Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti 
Experts? >Something about this Verizon hotspot network is different from the 
others. What is it? >By far the easiest thing to do here is change the Verizon 
hotspot to broadcast an OPEN network, no >encryption. If that works then we 
know more-or-less where the problem is. >Not saying this is a solution. OPEN 
encryption should not fail on any device and will tell us if the Verizon 
>hotspot is using an encryption scheme that the Bullet M2 can't handle. I have 
worked with some of these cell hotspot devices before and they are most 
definitely KISS devices and his may not even permit him to make any changes 
whatsoever to the encryption. Instructions that come with them are on the order 
of "plug it in and it will display the SSID and password on screen" and that's 
pretty much it. The cell companies don't want to offer any kind of support on 
them at all so it's like "get this on a 30 day return and if you can't make it 
work send it back to us, but don't call for support unless the device tells you 
"no cell signal" on screen" . Ted

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ben Koenig]

Yeah they usually have a couple options, but only a couple. There are some 
really wacky issues from years ago that typically require a software update to 
resolve. Even knowing what the hotspot is currently broadcasting can be helpful 
in narrowing it down or ruling it out.

Try connecting a MBP from 2013/2014 to a wpa 2/3 network and youll see what I 
mean. It works on paper :)

-Ben
Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On May 12, 2023, 2:22 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt < t...@portlandia-it.com> wrote:
-Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Ben Koenig Sent: Friday, May 
12, 2023 5:47 AM To: Portland Linux/Unix Group Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti 
Experts? >Something about this Verizon hotspot network is different from the 
others. What is it? >By far the easiest thing to do here is change the Verizon 
hotspot to broadcast an OPEN network, no >encryption. If that works then we 
know more-or-less where the problem is. >Not saying this is a solution. OPEN 
encryption should not fail on any device and will tell us if the Verizon 
>hotspot is using an encryption scheme that the Bullet M2 can't handle. I have 
worked with some of these cell hotspot devices before and they are most 
definitely KISS devices and his may not even permit him to make any changes 
whatsoever to the encryption. Instructions that come with them are on the order 
of "plug it in and it will display the SSID and password on screen" and that's 
pretty much it. The cell companies don't want to offer any kind of support on 
them at all so it's like "get this on a 30 day return and if you can't make it 
work send it back to us, but don't call for support unless the device tells you 
"no cell signal" on screen" . Ted

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Ben Koenig
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 5:47 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?


>Something about this Verizon hotspot network is different from the others. 
>What is it?

>By far the easiest thing to do here is change the Verizon hotspot to broadcast 
>an OPEN network, no >encryption. If that works then we know more-or-less where 
>the problem is.

>Not saying this is a solution. OPEN encryption should not fail on any device 
>and will tell us if the Verizon >hotspot is using an encryption scheme that 
>the Bullet M2 can't handle. 

I have worked with some of these cell hotspot devices before and they are most 
definitely KISS devices and his may not even permit him to make any changes 
whatsoever to the encryption.

Instructions that come with them are on the order of "plug it in and it will 
display the SSID and password on screen" and that's pretty much it.   The cell 
companies don't want to offer any kind of support on them at all so it's like 
"get this on a 30 day return and if you can't make it work send it back to us, 
but don't call for support unless the device tells you "no cell signal" on 
screen"
.
Ted

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Russell Senior]

If you have created a backup config, you can restore it after the factory
reset, if necessary or desirable. The goal of my suggestion is just to rule
out an accidental misconfiguration of some obscure setting that might be
preventing the connection.

On Fri, May 12, 2023, 05:47 Ben Koenig  wrote:

> --- Original Message ---
> On Friday, May 12th, 2023 at 5:15 AM, Tomas Kuchta <
> tomas.kuchta.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > .
> >
> >
> > I'd think that Russell's suggestion about backup + reset to factory +
> > update to the latest firmware + reconfigure is the least costly and
> > intrusive option to start with.
> >
> > If you still cannot connect to the wifi hotspot after that - then it
> would
> > be prudent to start trouble shoot. Let's cross that bridge when 
> >
> > -T
>
> A factory reset is the MOST intrusive option because you are little wiping
> out all data and preferences on a device and taking it offline. Remember
> that the device is currently functioning as intended on other networks so
> why mess with that? So before making changes to the configuration or
> firmware we should try to isolate the point of failure. Isolate the
> problem then root cause.
>
> Something about this Verizon hotspot network is different from the others.
> What is it?
>
> By far the easiest thing to do here is change the Verizon hotspot to
> broadcast an OPEN network, no encryption. If that works then we know
> more-or-less where the problem is.
>
> Not saying this is a solution. OPEN encryption should not fail on any
> device and will tell us if the Verizon hotspot is using an encryption
> scheme that the Bullet M2 can't handle.
> -Ben
>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ben Koenig]

--- Original Message ---
On Friday, May 12th, 2023 at 5:15 AM, Tomas Kuchta 
 wrote:


> > .
> 
> 
> I'd think that Russell's suggestion about backup + reset to factory +
> update to the latest firmware + reconfigure is the least costly and
> intrusive option to start with.
> 
> If you still cannot connect to the wifi hotspot after that - then it would
> be prudent to start trouble shoot. Let's cross that bridge when 
> 
> -T

A factory reset is the MOST intrusive option because you are little wiping out 
all data and preferences on a device and taking it offline. Remember that the 
device is currently functioning as intended on other networks so why mess with 
that? So before making changes to the configuration or firmware we should try 
to isolate the point of failure. Isolate the problem then root cause. 

Something about this Verizon hotspot network is different from the others. What 
is it?

By far the easiest thing to do here is change the Verizon hotspot to broadcast 
an OPEN network, no encryption. If that works then we know more-or-less where 
the problem is.

Not saying this is a solution. OPEN encryption should not fail on any device 
and will tell us if the Verizon hotspot is using an encryption scheme that the 
Bullet M2 can't handle. 
-Ben

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Tomas Kuchta]

>
> .
>

I'd think that Russell's suggestion about backup + reset to factory +
update to the latest firmware + reconfigure is the least costly and
intrusive option to start with.

If you still cannot connect to the wifi hotspot after that - then it would
be prudent to start trouble shoot. Let's cross that bridge when 

-T

>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Tomas Kuchta]

>
> .


Before disposing of your hotspot + cell provider and getting someone elses
phone replacing the hotspot. I would very carefully study the terms and
conditions.

I cannot believe that someone here would be promoting any "Unlimited" plan
as unlimited in dictionary terms when it comes to telco (mono/duo)polies.

"Cost on an unlimited plan is likely cheaper than cost on the Verizon
hotspot AND the AT cell plan.  And I'll even throw in a dd-wrt router
that will connect to the S9 when it's running it's wifi tethering."

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

OK here is something simpler.

All you need is something that will replace the bullet and connect to the 
Verizon hotspot and to your netgear wan port.  You can keep using the bullet to 
connect to the unnamed "distant" wifi whatever that is, and to your AT phone 
when you turn on tethering since that works.

I'll send you out a couple routers you can play with one configured with a 
dd-wrt version that has a working client bridge and the other configured with 
openwrt.

You can then either use the instructions here for openwrt:

https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/routedclient

or here for dd-wrt:

https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Client_Bridge

whichever one you find easiest to use, to connect to the hotspot.

OR THERE IS SOMETHING EVEN SIMPLER THAN THAT:

I have a nice used Samsung S9 that originated on the Verizon network that I'm 
no longer using.  Since you know you got good signal on the Verizon network, 
I'll send you that phone and you can contact Verizon and cancel the hotspot 
account, then contact AT and cancel your existing cell phone account, then 
get an unlimited data plan from Verizon and have them send you a sim out for 
the S9.  Cost on an unlimited plan is likely cheaper than cost on the Verizon 
hotspot AND the AT cell plan.  And I'll even throw in a dd-wrt router that 
will connect to the S9 when it's running it's wifi tethering.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Michael Barnes
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 9:08 PM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

Thanks anyhow, folks. I was hoping for something simple. I'm afraid 80-90% of 
this disussion has gone way over my head. As I age, I think I have forgotten 
more about this networking stuff than I knew in the first place.
I didn't think it was all that difficult to understand the layout, it is pretty 
simple. Outside gain antenna > Ubiquiti Bullet > Netgear WAN port > 
wifi/ethernet to devices. Log into Bullet and select available wifi network 
from scan list. Sometimes the available wifi network is distant or very weak, 
hence the big gain antenna. At times, no network was available, so I connected 
to my phone as a hotspot. Sometimes adequate AT signal is not available or I 
used up my monthly data allocation, so I acquired the Verizon hotspot. The 
Bullet shows the Verizon device on the scanned network list, but does not allow 
it to be selected.
I have a very limited budget and even more limited skillset anymore.
Obtaining the Verizon equipment and service was a huge hit. Acquiring 
additional equipment is simply out of the question for both financial and 
logistical reasons.

Thank you all for your time anyhow. Unfortunately, it was more an exercise in 
frustration and futility for me.

Michael


On Thu, May 11, 2023, 21:55 Ted Mittelstaedt  wrote:

>
> -Original Message-
> From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Russell Senior
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 2:46 PM
> To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 1:07 PM Ted Mittelstaedt 
> 
>
> >Bridging when both ends are cooperating is not difficult (see 
> >4-address
> mode). The Verizon hotspot is not >cooperating.
>
> I've had no issues bridging using dd-wrt to my phone in portable 
> setups where a device with an ethernet port needed to get on the 
> Internet and there was no Ethernet port available.  Possibly if you 
> have never used dd-wrt you are drawing conclusions based on inferior 
> wifi bridging implementations in openwrt??
>
> >I always recommend routing at the station over trying to bridge 
> >*UNLESS
> YOU CONTROL BOTH ENDS*.
>
> I have to disagree with this one.  Inserting routers at both ends of a 
> wifi bridge is actually best network practices.  And I mean a real 
> router not an address translator.  For starters it eliminates all the 
> TCP/IP broadcast traffic which just adds useless traffic to the wifi link.
>
> The issue is not in the network design on this one.  The issue is in 
> the "ISP handoff" or rather the border.  Best practices is to have the 
> ISP handoff a PUBLIC IP address whether it's DHCP supplied or static.
>
> The moment the ISP hands you a PRIVATE number you are off in the weeds 
> and you really need to recognize you are in the insane asylum.  And 
> you are in an insane asylum inside of a sinking ship if you don't have 
> control over the NAT device.
>
> >My recollection of the ubiquiti firmware on the M-class devices is 
> >that
> station-mode implies routing. I use >a lot of ubiquiti hardware, but 
> rarely their software.
>
> My go-to is Ubiquiti hardware and software  for corporate WDS installs.
> But I don't judge them to be "the best"  Their propensity for the 
> software update of the month is highly annoyi

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Russell Senior]

  [...] This is probably just some stupid WPA2/3 glitch.

Yeah, that is a plausible theory. Modern radios usually support older ones
without a problem, so my initial N radio vs AC theory didn't really make a
lot of sense (as I said at the time). I like the WPA quirk better.

To reiterate, I'd start by making a back up of the Bullet M2 configuration
(off device, to your laptop or whatever) and then reset to factory
defaults, and then reconfigure it from scratch and see if that helps.

Then I'd try updating to the latest firmware on the Bullet M2 and see if
that helps. There is a new version of ubiquiti firmware as of a few weeks
ago (the website implies it was released May 2, 2023):

  https://www.ui.com/download/airmax-m


> -Ben
>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ben Koenig]

--- Original Message ---
On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 2:47 PM, Michael Barnes  
wrote:


> I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear router
> that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point and
> pulls from an available wifi source.
> I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into the
> Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but is not
> selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little circle that
> allows me to select it.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael


This is a pretty straightforward problem. If 80-90% of the discussion here goes 
over your head that's fine because 80-90% of the discussion isn't particularly 
focused on the task at hand.

There's not a lot of wifi-oriented documentation for the Bullet M2 which makes 
me wonder if this is a wifi compatibility issue. From what I can gather it's 
802.11n which is a few generations back. It's very possible that you are 
encountering a compatibility issue between the 2 devices but without more 
details regarding the encryption method and wifi standard your verizon hotspot 
is using it's hard to tell what exactly is causing the issue. If you still want 
to try and troubleshoot then the following info would be very helpful:

- make/model of the verizon hotspot
- wifi version being broadcast. Is it N, AC, AX?
- encryption method. WEP, WPA, WPA2, WPA3, or something else?

Not to insult the experience of any of the IT people here but there's a 
HUGE difference between setting up a wifi network according to a current 
published standard, and documenting compatibility issues in a QA environment 
for IOT devices during the entire product development cycle. There are known 
compatibility issues and known workarounds for those issues when they occur... 
so check the model/version against known quirks before running off on network 
topology tangents. This is probably just some stupid WPA2/3 glitch.

That and the M2 bullet is designed specifically to chain between routers in the 
way he described. The Friendly Manual shows the exact topology he is going for.
https://dl.ui.com/qsg/BulletM2-HP/BulletM2-HP_EN.html

-Ben

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Michael Barnes]

Thanks anyhow, folks. I was hoping for something simple. I'm afraid 80-90%
of this disussion has gone way over my head. As I age, I think I have
forgotten more about this networking stuff than I knew in the first place.
I didn't think it was all that difficult to understand the layout, it is
pretty simple. Outside gain antenna > Ubiquiti Bullet > Netgear WAN port >
wifi/ethernet to devices. Log into Bullet and select available wifi network
from scan list. Sometimes the available wifi network is distant or very
weak, hence the big gain antenna. At times, no network was available, so I
connected to my phone as a hotspot. Sometimes adequate AT signal is not
available or I used up my monthly data allocation, so I acquired the
Verizon hotspot. The Bullet shows the Verizon device on the scanned network
list, but does not allow it to be selected.
I have a very limited budget and even more limited skillset anymore.
Obtaining the Verizon equipment and service was a huge hit. Acquiring
additional equipment is simply out of the question for both financial and
logistical reasons.

Thank you all for your time anyhow. Unfortunately, it was more an exercise
in frustration and futility for me.

Michael


On Thu, May 11, 2023, 21:55 Ted Mittelstaedt  wrote:

>
> -Original Message-
> From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Russell Senior
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 2:46 PM
> To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 1:07 PM Ted Mittelstaedt 
>
> >Bridging when both ends are cooperating is not difficult (see 4-address
> mode). The Verizon hotspot is not >cooperating.
>
> I've had no issues bridging using dd-wrt to my phone in portable setups
> where a device with an ethernet port needed to get on the Internet and
> there was no Ethernet port available.  Possibly if you have never used
> dd-wrt you are drawing conclusions based on inferior wifi bridging
> implementations in openwrt??
>
> >I always recommend routing at the station over trying to bridge *UNLESS
> YOU CONTROL BOTH ENDS*.
>
> I have to disagree with this one.  Inserting routers at both ends of a
> wifi bridge is actually best network practices.  And I mean a real router
> not an address translator.  For starters it eliminates all the TCP/IP
> broadcast traffic which just adds useless traffic to the wifi link.
>
> The issue is not in the network design on this one.  The issue is in the
> "ISP handoff" or rather the border.  Best practices is to have the ISP
> handoff a PUBLIC IP address whether it's DHCP supplied or static.
>
> The moment the ISP hands you a PRIVATE number you are off in the weeds and
> you really need to recognize you are in the insane asylum.  And you are in
> an insane asylum inside of a sinking ship if you don't have control over
> the NAT device.
>
> >My recollection of the ubiquiti firmware on the M-class devices is that
> station-mode implies routing. I use >a lot of ubiquiti hardware, but rarely
> their software.
>
> My go-to is Ubiquiti hardware and software  for corporate WDS installs.
> But I don't judge them to be "the best"  Their propensity for the software
> update of the month is highly annoying, frankly.  They are just the
> cheapest out there that is "corporatized" LOL
>
> >OpenWrt is for people who want to treat their device as a tiny computer
> that happens to have wifi >interfaces... that is, for people who want to be
> able to construct their own solutions for their particular >problem.
>
> Then quit being myopic about it and spend the money on a Raspberry Pi or
> it's clone the Le Potato or whatever they call it, and plug in a wireless
> USB stick and have a REAL computer not a toy with a crappy power supply, a
> weak CPU and a propensity for locking up (with certain flaky hardware)
>
> >OpenWrt is not religious, it is entirely practical if you can't build the
> system you want because some >megacorporation doesn't release required
> programming information for their equipment and reliable >reverse
> engineering isn't available. OpenWrt doesn't support some hardware, mostly
> Broadcom, because >they can't build modern kernels or implement desired
> features with it.
>
> Except that dd-wrt somehow CAN build kernels and implement desired
> features.   As can TomatoNG.  You are just quoting the OpenWRT bullshit
> excuses they use to justify not doing the work to support some devices.
> And OpenWRT does in fact support a lot of Broadcom.  Dd-wrt also runs
> modern kernels on SOCs that have ports of modern kernels to them.
>
> I get it, like any OSS project they have limited development time and
> can't get around to all hardware so they concentrate on a core hardware
> template.   Dd-wrt 

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Russell Senior
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 2:46 PM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 1:07 PM Ted Mittelstaedt 

>Bridging when both ends are cooperating is not difficult (see 4-address mode). 
>The Verizon hotspot is not >cooperating.

I've had no issues bridging using dd-wrt to my phone in portable setups where a 
device with an ethernet port needed to get on the Internet and there was no 
Ethernet port available.  Possibly if you have never used dd-wrt you are 
drawing conclusions based on inferior wifi bridging implementations in openwrt??

>I always recommend routing at the station over trying to bridge *UNLESS YOU 
>CONTROL BOTH ENDS*. 

I have to disagree with this one.  Inserting routers at both ends of a wifi 
bridge is actually best network practices.  And I mean a real router not an 
address translator.  For starters it eliminates all the TCP/IP broadcast 
traffic which just adds useless traffic to the wifi link.

The issue is not in the network design on this one.  The issue is in the "ISP 
handoff" or rather the border.  Best practices is to have the ISP handoff a 
PUBLIC IP address whether it's DHCP supplied or static.

The moment the ISP hands you a PRIVATE number you are off in the weeds and you 
really need to recognize you are in the insane asylum.  And you are in an 
insane asylum inside of a sinking ship if you don't have control over the NAT 
device.

>My recollection of the ubiquiti firmware on the M-class devices is that 
>station-mode implies routing. I use >a lot of ubiquiti hardware, but rarely 
>their software.

My go-to is Ubiquiti hardware and software  for corporate WDS installs.  But I 
don't judge them to be "the best"  Their propensity for the software update of 
the month is highly annoying, frankly.  They are just the cheapest out there 
that is "corporatized" LOL

>OpenWrt is for people who want to treat their device as a tiny computer that 
>happens to have wifi >interfaces... that is, for people who want to be able to 
>construct their own solutions for their particular >problem.

Then quit being myopic about it and spend the money on a Raspberry Pi or it's 
clone the Le Potato or whatever they call it, and plug in a wireless USB stick 
and have a REAL computer not a toy with a crappy power supply, a weak CPU and a 
propensity for locking up (with certain flaky hardware)

>OpenWrt is not religious, it is entirely practical if you can't build the 
>system you want because some >megacorporation doesn't release required 
>programming information for their equipment and reliable >reverse engineering 
>isn't available. OpenWrt doesn't support some hardware, mostly Broadcom, 
>because >they can't build modern kernels or implement desired features with it.

Except that dd-wrt somehow CAN build kernels and implement desired features.   
As can TomatoNG.  You are just quoting the OpenWRT bullshit excuses they use to 
justify not doing the work to support some devices.  And OpenWRT does in fact 
support a lot of Broadcom.  Dd-wrt also runs modern kernels on SOCs that have 
ports of modern kernels to them.

I get it, like any OSS project they have limited development time and can't get 
around to all hardware so they concentrate on a core hardware template.   
Dd-wrt is no different they have Broadcom based devices they don't support 
because the main developer didn't put the work into it either, but he isn't 
inventing BS excuses about OSS purity and megacorporations to explain why he 
doesn't support it.

The Linux network stack and NAT modules are INCREDIBLY inefficient and slow.  
There was a large research project someone did as their thesis a few years ago 
that built an efficient NAT implementation that when used to replace NAT in the 
Linux stack was 50 times faster in some implementations.  But Linux Torvalds is 
not interested in people showing his dirty underwear so he ignored it.  And the 
OpenWRT people pretend that Linux makes a great router platform when the 
reality is it makes a crappy router platform.  This has been proven by FreeBSD 
multiple times in the past which has a far better network stack as well.

dd-wrt's developer finally had to admit this and incorporate the Broadcom 
software NAT  (which they claim is hardware but it really isn't it's just 
microcode on their SOC) into select models with the Broadcom Northstar CPU and 
now, for the price of less than $10 for a device you can find in a Goodwill 
bin, you can get gigabit NAT speeds in a router that has a 500Mhz CPU and a 
Broadcom SOC.

OpenWRT could do this also with the Atheros chipset but they would have to 
abandon the Linux NAT module to do it.  Plus do a lot of work porting in the 
alternative NAT code.  It's just easier for them to spread BS around about 
megacorporations.

>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Russell Senior]

> The problem people are likely to encounter is clashing network numbering.
> Like, for example, 192.168.1.x/24 on both sides of a router. Personal Telco
> has *many* (NAT'ing) routers stuck behind an ISP's (NAT'ing) gateway
> routers and they work exactly as expected. As long as you take care with
> your network numbering, it all works fine.
>

I'll amend this with the caveat that apparently double NAT can cause
problems for uPnP. But that has no business working at all, so no loss. ;-)


> --
> Russell Senior
> russ...@personaltelco.net
>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Tomas Kuchta]

>
> .


+1 for checking that there is single network with/in 192.168.1.0/24

If both/all sides use that network range, thing will likely not work.

-T

>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Russell Senior]

On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 1:07 PM Ted Mittelstaedt 
wrote:

> I use wifi bridging all the time.  In fact there are so many people that
> use wifi brides that you get on Amazon and many of the outdoor Aps are sold
> in pairs because people intend to use them as bridges.
>

Bridging when both ends are cooperating is not difficult (see 4-address
mode). The Verizon hotspot is not cooperating.


> Now, granted all of these setups are manufacturer-provided.  Yes they may
> be "hackey tricks" going on behind the scenes, my guess is the biggest
> hacky trick is silently enabling WDS.  When you go into a tp-link wifi AP
> and click on the interface to configure it to bridge to another tp-link
> wifi AP then yes, possibly it is doing that behind the scenes and not
> telling you it's using WDS.  Or it's doing some other hacky trick behind
> the scenes.  I don't know I don't care.  It Just Works as a bridge.  And
> you don't have to give a tinkers damn about infrastructure mode, etc.
>
> What I was trying to get him to think about is the ROUTING vs BRIDGING
> issue vs NAT issue.
>

I always recommend routing at the station over trying to bridge *UNLESS YOU
CONTROL BOTH ENDS*. My recollection of the ubiquiti firmware on the M-class
devices is that station-mode implies routing. I use a lot of ubiquiti
hardware, but rarely their software.


>
> The reason I mentioned using an Atheros chipset specifically is because
> dd-wrt dropped support for client bridging in Broadcom chipsets a couple
> years ago since it never worked right.  But it is in Atheros gear.
>
> I don't know if OpenWRT supports wifi bridging.  OpenWRT is a load that is
> built by a religious order who is only concerned with purity of OSS.  In
> some respects it is a huge disappointment since it has spotty support for
> what people actually need to use wifi stuff for and the openwrt developers
> are very snobby about hardware.  In other respects it works well and
> supports gear that dd-wrt does not.  Maybe it does not support bridging.
>  Dd-wrt is built by a pragmatic individual who understands what people need
> in wifi gear.  It supports wifi bridging and gear that has inadequate
> amounts of ram and it's developer regularly discards kitchen-sink
> applications that people beg to have shoved into the distro.
>

OpenWrt is for people who want to treat their device as a tiny computer
that happens to have wifi interfaces... that is, for people who want to be
able to construct their own solutions for their particular problem. OpenWrt
is not religious, it is entirely practical if you can't build the system
you want because some megacorporation doesn't release required programming
information for their equipment and reliable reverse engineering isn't
available. OpenWrt doesn't support some hardware, mostly Broadcom, because
they can't build modern kernels or implement desired features with it. So
they focus on hardware where they can. If you don't mind being stuck on
some ancient vendor kernel and all you want is a regular router, then sure,
dd-wrt is fine. I find dd-wrt repulsive, but tastes vary and that's fine.

Unsurprisingly, many manufacturers of wifi gear (like Netgear) -also- have
> a client bridged mode in their gear.
>

It is a widely desired feature. Vendors who implement this for the general
case are probably using some form of ProxyARP, which is some hacky NAT-like
technology, but at the MAC address layer rather than the IP layer. So, you
are relying on probably one firmware engineer at the vendor company to have
gotten it right. In contrast to well-exercised netfilter code that has been
in the upstream kernel for 20 years and is used by billions of people every
day.

The problems I recall hearing-about/experiencing with "client bridging"
often involve broadcast traffic of one form or another not traversing the
"bridge". DHCP not working some of the time, and things like that.


>
> Getting back to his problem we don't know (yet) what all is going on with
> IP addressing, public or private, so we really can't make any usable
> recommendations other than speculating.


If the ubiquiti firmware is telling him he can't select the network to even
*TRY* to connect, then ubiquiti thinks there is some incompatibility. His
set up was working with his phone's wifi tethering and the
now-unconnectable distant access point.


> And as for multi-layer NAT not being a problem that is just not true.  On
> SOME implementations you can get away with it.  But there are NO
> guarantees.  I've seen stacked NAT devices that worked fine and I've seen
> NAT devices that worked fine when they were just a single NAT device but
> fell on their face when used behind another NAT device.  The idea that
> stacked NAT or multilayer NAT is at all widespread in industry is baloney.
> The only people that do it are either gurus who are trying to save a buck
> on Internet connections or are trying to get completely untenable
> situations working for connectivity, or utter bumbling 

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

I use wifi bridging all the time.  In fact there are so many people that use 
wifi brides that you get on Amazon and many of the outdoor Aps are sold in 
pairs because people intend to use them as bridges.

Now, granted all of these setups are manufacturer-provided.  Yes they may be 
"hackey tricks" going on behind the scenes, my guess is the biggest hacky trick 
is silently enabling WDS.  When you go into a tp-link wifi AP and click on the 
interface to configure it to bridge to another tp-link wifi AP then yes, 
possibly it is doing that behind the scenes and not telling you it's using WDS. 
 Or it's doing some other hacky trick behind the scenes.  I don't know I don't 
care.  It Just Works as a bridge.  And you don't have to give a tinkers damn 
about infrastructure mode, etc.

What I was trying to get him to think about is the ROUTING vs BRIDGING issue vs 
NAT issue.

The reason I mentioned using an Atheros chipset specifically is because dd-wrt 
dropped support for client bridging in Broadcom chipsets a couple years ago 
since it never worked right.  But it is in Atheros gear.

I don't know if OpenWRT supports wifi bridging.  OpenWRT is a load that is 
built by a religious order who is only concerned with purity of OSS.  In some 
respects it is a huge disappointment since it has spotty support for what 
people actually need to use wifi stuff for and the openwrt developers are very 
snobby about hardware.  In other respects it works well and supports gear that 
dd-wrt does not.  Maybe it does not support bridging.   Dd-wrt is built by a 
pragmatic individual who understands what people need in wifi gear.  It 
supports wifi bridging and gear that has inadequate amounts of ram and it's 
developer regularly discards kitchen-sink applications that people beg to have 
shoved into the distro.

Unsurprisingly, many manufacturers of wifi gear (like Netgear) -also- have a 
client bridged mode in their gear.

Getting back to his problem we don't know (yet) what all is going on with IP 
addressing, public or private, so we really can't make any usable 
recommendations other than speculating.  And as for multi-layer NAT not being a 
problem that is just not true.  On SOME implementations you can get away with 
it.  But there are NO guarantees.  I've seen stacked NAT devices that worked 
fine and I've seen NAT devices that worked fine when they were just a single 
NAT device but fell on their face when used behind another NAT device.  The 
idea that stacked NAT or multilayer NAT is at all widespread in industry is 
baloney.  The only people that do it are either gurus who are trying to save a 
buck on Internet connections or are trying to get completely untenable 
situations working for connectivity, or utter bumbling amateurs who don't know 
the difference between a public IP and a private IP.  And 95% of the people 
using multilayer NAT that I see posting problems about it are of the latter 
type and half of them don't even know they are doing it.  It absolutely is not 
considered good network practices by any measure.  For that matter NAT itself 
isn't even considered good network practice.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Russell Senior
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 11:36 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

While bridging an AP-mode interface is fine, without hacky tricks adding a wifi 
station mode interface to a bridge DOES NOT WORK, by design.
Infrastructure mode wifi only uses three MAC addresses (to save 6 bytes of 
packet header). See 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Layer_2_%E2%80%93_Datagrams, You need 
four to bridge at the station. I learned this painfully in 2005. You can get 
around this by using WDS (that uses 4 MAC addresses), or adhoc mode (IBSS). 
Both require the cooperation of the AP (which you won't have from the Verizon 
hotspot's firmware). There is also something called Proxy ARP (at least in 
OpenWrt), which I've never used and (iirc) has its own shortcomings, probably 
more dire than just routing. Multi-layer NAT usually isn't a problem. The 
computational load is distributed across the devices that you are traversing, 
and almost everyone uses NAT already. It only becomes awkward to manage if you 
want to initiate connections from the "outside" to the "inside".

The only unexpected thing with Michael's situation is that the Bullet doesn't 
want to associate with the Verizon hotspot. A Bullet M2 is an 802.11N radio. 
Maybe the Verizon hotspot is requiring an 802.11ac radio to connect, but that 
seems unlikely, as a lot of little IOT devices won't have 802.11ac radios 
either. I'd make sure to reboot everything and try again (which you've probably 
done already). You might confirm you are using an up-to-date firmware on the 
Bullet M2 in case there were bug fixes.

With OpenWrt on the Netgear, you could configure a station mode interface 
there, but since we don't understand what 

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Russell Senior]

Michael,

One other thought about your problem. Maybe you have some other setting in
the Bullet that is preventing your connection (maybe locked on a channel or
something). You might consider making a backup of your Bullet configuration
and then "factory reset" it and try configuring it again from scratch.

-- 
Russell Senior
russ...@personaltelco.net

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:54 PM Michael Barnes 
wrote:

> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 7:35 PM Tomas Kuchta  >
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 10, 2023, 17:47 Michael Barnes 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear
> > router
> > > that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point
> and
> > > pulls from an available wifi source.
> > > I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into the
> > > Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but is not
> > > selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little circle
> that
> > > allows me to select it.
> > > .
> >
> >
> > I am confused about your network topology. So, you get in internet over
> > wifi from somewhere, received by the bullet - that feeds Netgear router
> by
> > what? (Ethernet cable?) Then you get your other wifi devices connected to
> > Netgear or back to bullet on different vlan or ?? Very confusing  Now
> > you want the bullet to be able to get internet from 2nd source (hotspot),
> > but only when it is on?
> >
> > It loos like pretty complex order. Perhaps you need some low level access
> > to the Linux network config on the bullet. If that is so, please consider
> > a) simplifying your network topology and b) installing wrt on the bullet
> so
> > that you can configure the network and routing directly.
> >
> > -T
> >
> > Tomas
> >
>
> Sorry if it was confusing.
>
> The bullet is connected to an antenna that picks up internet via wifi. The
> ethernet from the bullet goes through a POE injector into the Internet/WAN
> port  of the Netgear router. My various devices (TV, Portal, a couple
> Raspberry Pis, etc.) all connect to the Netgear router. Most of the time
> there is local wifi available for me to connect to, but not always. When
> wifi is not available, I have turned on the hotspot on my phone and
> connected to it. However, when I leave, the network looses internet.
> Lately, I've been having to use my phone a lot and have used up my meager
> (6GB) monthly data allocation. Trying to resolve this, I obtained a
> Verizon  hotspot with 100GB monthly data. When I log into the bullet to
> tell it what wifi to connect to, it shows the hotspot on the list, but does
> not have the little circle that allows that source to be selected.
>
> Otherwise, every time I change the internet source, I have to go to every
> device and log onto the new wifi. With up to seven or more devices, and
> sometimes changing internet sources daily, that is a real pain. It is so
> much easier to just have everything connected to the local network and only
> change the bullet access point. And since lately local wifi hasn't always
> been available to me, I wanted to use the hotspot.
>
> Does that clarify it at all? Any ideas on why the bullet connects to pretty
> much everything but the Verizon hotspot? I am suspecting the issue is with
> the Verizon hotspot, but not sure.
>
> Michael
>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Russell Senior]

While bridging an AP-mode interface is fine, without hacky tricks adding a
wifi station mode interface to a bridge DOES NOT WORK, by design.
Infrastructure mode wifi only uses three MAC addresses (to save 6 bytes of
packet header). See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Layer_2_%E2%80%93_Datagrams, You
need four to bridge at the station. I learned this painfully in 2005. You
can get around this by using WDS (that uses 4 MAC addresses), or adhoc mode
(IBSS). Both require the cooperation of the AP (which you won't have from
the Verizon hotspot's firmware). There is also something called Proxy ARP
(at least in OpenWrt), which I've never used and (iirc) has its own
shortcomings, probably more dire than just routing. Multi-layer NAT usually
isn't a problem. The computational load is distributed across the devices
that you are traversing, and almost everyone uses NAT already. It only
becomes awkward to manage if you want to initiate connections from the
"outside" to the "inside".

The only unexpected thing with Michael's situation is that the Bullet
doesn't want to associate with the Verizon hotspot. A Bullet M2 is an
802.11N radio. Maybe the Verizon hotspot is requiring an 802.11ac radio to
connect, but that seems unlikely, as a lot of little IOT devices won't have
802.11ac radios either. I'd make sure to reboot everything and try again
(which you've probably done already). You might confirm you are using an
up-to-date firmware on the Bullet M2 in case there were bug fixes.

With OpenWrt on the Netgear, you could configure a station mode interface
there, but since we don't understand what the problem is with the Bullet,
it's not clear that would help beyond removing a device from the chain. You
are probably using the Bullet with a directional antenna to be able to
connect to a more distant AP (which you wouldn't need with the Verizon
hotspot, if it is nearby).

One other thing to note, modern OpenWrt might not fit easily on a Bullet M2
anymore, primarily because it only has 32MB of RAM. OpenWrt was
historically very good at squeezing things into tiny spaces, but upstream
kernel growth and modern devices with more resources (and less consequent
pressure to keep things small) have led to progressive abandonment of
older, more constrained devices. Even 8MB of flash (with the Bullet M2 has)
is becoming inadequate these days. But the 32MB of RAM is the more painful
constraint at the moment.  I have experimented (thus far, unsuccessfully on
a single attempt) to update the RAM chip in a Bullet M2 to 64MB with a
pin-compatible part from the same product line, and it ALMOST worked (it
booted and ran for 30 seconds or so before panicking).

-- 
Russell Senior
russ...@personaltelco.net

On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 8:50 AM Ted Mittelstaedt 
wrote:

> Yeah one of the problems with schemes like this is you are running double
> and sometimes triple network address translation and it can be SLOW if it
> even works at all.
>
> Here is my suggestion:
>
> Get an Atheros-based chipset router.  Install either dd-wrt or Openwrt on
> it.  Configure the unit as a wifi-to-ethernet bridge.   Associate it to the
> Verizon hotspot and use the translation on the hotspot.
>
> As for the Bullet that matters how your source wifi is configured.  If the
> bullet is being supplied by a WISP then you will be getting a single
> assigned public IP from that and will need to use your netgear router to
> handle that.  Otherwise if it's just getting connectivity from some
> friend's wifi elsewhere then the bullet also needs to be in bridged mode.
>
> Broadcom-based chips don't handle bridging properly, never have.
>
> You have way too many routers involved here.  You need to be thinking
> bridging, not routing.
>
> Ted
>
> -Original Message-
> From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Michael Barnes
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 8:54 PM
> To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 7:35 PM Tomas Kuchta  >
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 10, 2023, 17:47 Michael Barnes 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear
> > router
> > > that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point
> > > and pulls from an available wifi source.
> > > I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into
> > > the Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but
> > > is not selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little
> > > circle that allows me to select it.
> > > .
> >
> >
> > I am confused about your network topology. So, you get in internet
> > over wifi from somewhere, received by the bullet - that feeds Netgear
> > router by what? (Ethernet cable?) Then you get your o

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

He needs to tell us how the bullet is configured, it will "work" (as in pass 
packets) either way just sub optimally if on the wrong network.

Internet connectivity has no real meaning unless the people providing it are 
cognizant of where translation is happening.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Russell Senior
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 4:29 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

So, the bullet is in station mode. And the bullet must be routing (not 
bridging). What kind of Netgear router are you using? Is it possible to log in 
to the Verizon hotspot to see what it thinks?

--
Russell Senior
russ...@personaltelco.net

On Wed, May 10, 2023, 20:54 Michael Barnes  wrote:

> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 7:35 PM Tomas Kuchta 
>  >
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 10, 2023, 17:47 Michael Barnes 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a 
> > > Netgear
> > router
> > > that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access 
> > > point
> and
> > > pulls from an available wifi source.
> > > I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into 
> > > the Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, 
> > > but is not selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the 
> > > little circle
> that
> > > allows me to select it.
> > > .
> >
> >
> > I am confused about your network topology. So, you get in internet 
> > over wifi from somewhere, received by the bullet - that feeds 
> > Netgear router
> by
> > what? (Ethernet cable?) Then you get your other wifi devices 
> > connected to Netgear or back to bullet on different vlan or ?? Very 
> > confusing  Now you want the bullet to be able to get internet 
> > from 2nd source (hotspot), but only when it is on?
> >
> > It loos like pretty complex order. Perhaps you need some low level 
> > access to the Linux network config on the bullet. If that is so, 
> > please consider
> > a) simplifying your network topology and b) installing wrt on the 
> > bullet
> so
> > that you can configure the network and routing directly.
> >
> > -T
> >
> > Tomas
> >
>
> Sorry if it was confusing.
>
> The bullet is connected to an antenna that picks up internet via wifi. 
> The ethernet from the bullet goes through a POE injector into the 
> Internet/WAN port  of the Netgear router. My various devices (TV, 
> Portal, a couple Raspberry Pis, etc.) all connect to the Netgear 
> router. Most of the time there is local wifi available for me to 
> connect to, but not always. When wifi is not available, I have turned 
> on the hotspot on my phone and connected to it. However, when I leave, the 
> network looses internet.
> Lately, I've been having to use my phone a lot and have used up my 
> meager
> (6GB) monthly data allocation. Trying to resolve this, I obtained a 
> Verizon  hotspot with 100GB monthly data. When I log into the bullet 
> to tell it what wifi to connect to, it shows the hotspot on the list, 
> but does not have the little circle that allows that source to be selected.
>
> Otherwise, every time I change the internet source, I have to go to 
> every device and log onto the new wifi. With up to seven or more 
> devices, and sometimes changing internet sources daily, that is a real 
> pain. It is so much easier to just have everything connected to the 
> local network and only change the bullet access point. And since 
> lately local wifi hasn't always been available to me, I wanted to use the 
> hotspot.
>
> Does that clarify it at all? Any ideas on why the bullet connects to 
> pretty much everything but the Verizon hotspot? I am suspecting the 
> issue is with the Verizon hotspot, but not sure.
>
> Michael
>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Yeah one of the problems with schemes like this is you are running double and 
sometimes triple network address translation and it can be SLOW if it even 
works at all.

Here is my suggestion:

Get an Atheros-based chipset router.  Install either dd-wrt or Openwrt on it.  
Configure the unit as a wifi-to-ethernet bridge.   Associate it to the Verizon 
hotspot and use the translation on the hotspot.

As for the Bullet that matters how your source wifi is configured.  If the 
bullet is being supplied by a WISP then you will be getting a single assigned 
public IP from that and will need to use your netgear router to handle that.  
Otherwise if it's just getting connectivity from some friend's wifi elsewhere 
then the bullet also needs to be in bridged mode.

Broadcom-based chips don't handle bridging properly, never have.

You have way too many routers involved here.  You need to be thinking bridging, 
not routing.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Michael Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 8:54 PM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 7:35 PM Tomas Kuchta 
wrote:

> On Wed, May 10, 2023, 17:47 Michael Barnes  wrote:
>
> > I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear
> router
> > that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point 
> > and pulls from an available wifi source.
> > I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into 
> > the Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but 
> > is not selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little 
> > circle that allows me to select it.
> > .
>
>
> I am confused about your network topology. So, you get in internet 
> over wifi from somewhere, received by the bullet - that feeds Netgear 
> router by what? (Ethernet cable?) Then you get your other wifi devices 
> connected to Netgear or back to bullet on different vlan or ?? Very 
> confusing  Now you want the bullet to be able to get internet from 
> 2nd source (hotspot), but only when it is on?
>
> It loos like pretty complex order. Perhaps you need some low level 
> access to the Linux network config on the bullet. If that is so, 
> please consider
> a) simplifying your network topology and b) installing wrt on the 
> bullet so that you can configure the network and routing directly.
>
> -T
>
> Tomas
>

Sorry if it was confusing.

The bullet is connected to an antenna that picks up internet via wifi. The 
ethernet from the bullet goes through a POE injector into the Internet/WAN port 
 of the Netgear router. My various devices (TV, Portal, a couple Raspberry Pis, 
etc.) all connect to the Netgear router. Most of the time there is local wifi 
available for me to connect to, but not always. When wifi is not available, I 
have turned on the hotspot on my phone and connected to it. However, when I 
leave, the network looses internet.
Lately, I've been having to use my phone a lot and have used up my meager
(6GB) monthly data allocation. Trying to resolve this, I obtained a Verizon  
hotspot with 100GB monthly data. When I log into the bullet to tell it what 
wifi to connect to, it shows the hotspot on the list, but does not have the 
little circle that allows that source to be selected.

Otherwise, every time I change the internet source, I have to go to every 
device and log onto the new wifi. With up to seven or more devices, and 
sometimes changing internet sources daily, that is a real pain. It is so much 
easier to just have everything connected to the local network and only change 
the bullet access point. And since lately local wifi hasn't always been 
available to me, I wanted to use the hotspot.

Does that clarify it at all? Any ideas on why the bullet connects to pretty 
much everything but the Verizon hotspot? I am suspecting the issue is with the 
Verizon hotspot, but not sure.

Michael

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Russell Senior]

So, the bullet is in station mode. And the bullet must be routing (not
bridging). What kind of Netgear router are you using? Is it possible to log
in to the Verizon hotspot to see what it thinks?

-- 
Russell Senior
russ...@personaltelco.net

On Wed, May 10, 2023, 20:54 Michael Barnes  wrote:

> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 7:35 PM Tomas Kuchta  >
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 10, 2023, 17:47 Michael Barnes 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear
> > router
> > > that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point
> and
> > > pulls from an available wifi source.
> > > I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into the
> > > Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but is not
> > > selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little circle
> that
> > > allows me to select it.
> > > .
> >
> >
> > I am confused about your network topology. So, you get in internet over
> > wifi from somewhere, received by the bullet - that feeds Netgear router
> by
> > what? (Ethernet cable?) Then you get your other wifi devices connected to
> > Netgear or back to bullet on different vlan or ?? Very confusing  Now
> > you want the bullet to be able to get internet from 2nd source (hotspot),
> > but only when it is on?
> >
> > It loos like pretty complex order. Perhaps you need some low level access
> > to the Linux network config on the bullet. If that is so, please consider
> > a) simplifying your network topology and b) installing wrt on the bullet
> so
> > that you can configure the network and routing directly.
> >
> > -T
> >
> > Tomas
> >
>
> Sorry if it was confusing.
>
> The bullet is connected to an antenna that picks up internet via wifi. The
> ethernet from the bullet goes through a POE injector into the Internet/WAN
> port  of the Netgear router. My various devices (TV, Portal, a couple
> Raspberry Pis, etc.) all connect to the Netgear router. Most of the time
> there is local wifi available for me to connect to, but not always. When
> wifi is not available, I have turned on the hotspot on my phone and
> connected to it. However, when I leave, the network looses internet.
> Lately, I've been having to use my phone a lot and have used up my meager
> (6GB) monthly data allocation. Trying to resolve this, I obtained a
> Verizon  hotspot with 100GB monthly data. When I log into the bullet to
> tell it what wifi to connect to, it shows the hotspot on the list, but does
> not have the little circle that allows that source to be selected.
>
> Otherwise, every time I change the internet source, I have to go to every
> device and log onto the new wifi. With up to seven or more devices, and
> sometimes changing internet sources daily, that is a real pain. It is so
> much easier to just have everything connected to the local network and only
> change the bullet access point. And since lately local wifi hasn't always
> been available to me, I wanted to use the hotspot.
>
> Does that clarify it at all? Any ideas on why the bullet connects to pretty
> much everything but the Verizon hotspot? I am suspecting the issue is with
> the Verizon hotspot, but not sure.
>
> Michael
>

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Michael Barnes]

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 7:35 PM Tomas Kuchta 
wrote:

> On Wed, May 10, 2023, 17:47 Michael Barnes  wrote:
>
> > I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear
> router
> > that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point and
> > pulls from an available wifi source.
> > I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into the
> > Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but is not
> > selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little circle that
> > allows me to select it.
> > .
>
>
> I am confused about your network topology. So, you get in internet over
> wifi from somewhere, received by the bullet - that feeds Netgear router by
> what? (Ethernet cable?) Then you get your other wifi devices connected to
> Netgear or back to bullet on different vlan or ?? Very confusing  Now
> you want the bullet to be able to get internet from 2nd source (hotspot),
> but only when it is on?
>
> It loos like pretty complex order. Perhaps you need some low level access
> to the Linux network config on the bullet. If that is so, please consider
> a) simplifying your network topology and b) installing wrt on the bullet so
> that you can configure the network and routing directly.
>
> -T
>
> Tomas
>

Sorry if it was confusing.

The bullet is connected to an antenna that picks up internet via wifi. The
ethernet from the bullet goes through a POE injector into the Internet/WAN
port  of the Netgear router. My various devices (TV, Portal, a couple
Raspberry Pis, etc.) all connect to the Netgear router. Most of the time
there is local wifi available for me to connect to, but not always. When
wifi is not available, I have turned on the hotspot on my phone and
connected to it. However, when I leave, the network looses internet.
Lately, I've been having to use my phone a lot and have used up my meager
(6GB) monthly data allocation. Trying to resolve this, I obtained a
Verizon  hotspot with 100GB monthly data. When I log into the bullet to
tell it what wifi to connect to, it shows the hotspot on the list, but does
not have the little circle that allows that source to be selected.

Otherwise, every time I change the internet source, I have to go to every
device and log onto the new wifi. With up to seven or more devices, and
sometimes changing internet sources daily, that is a real pain. It is so
much easier to just have everything connected to the local network and only
change the bullet access point. And since lately local wifi hasn't always
been available to me, I wanted to use the hotspot.

Does that clarify it at all? Any ideas on why the bullet connects to pretty
much everything but the Verizon hotspot? I am suspecting the issue is with
the Verizon hotspot, but not sure.

Michael

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Tomas Kuchta]

On Wed, May 10, 2023, 17:47 Michael Barnes  wrote:

> I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear router
> that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point and
> pulls from an available wifi source.
> I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into the
> Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but is not
> selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little circle that
> allows me to select it.
> .


I am confused about your network topology. So, you get in internet over
wifi from somewhere, received by the bullet - that feeds Netgear router by
what? (Ethernet cable?) Then you get your other wifi devices connected to
Netgear or back to bullet on different vlan or ?? Very confusing  Now
you want the bullet to be able to get internet from 2nd source (hotspot),
but only when it is on?

It loos like pretty complex order. Perhaps you need some low level access
to the Linux network config on the bullet. If that is so, please consider
a) simplifying your network topology and b) installing wrt on the bullet so
that you can configure the network and routing directly.

-T

Tomas

[PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts?

[Michael Barnes]

I have a local network using an Ubiquiti Bullet M2 feeding a Netgear router
that serves my various devices. The Bullet serves as an access point and
pulls from an available wifi source.
I got a hotspot from Verizon for internet access. When I log into the
Bullet to select a source, the hotspot shows up on the list, but is not
selectable. It has good signal strength, just not the little circle that
allows me to select it.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Michael

Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts Out There?

[Russell Senior]

We (Personal Telco Project) have used a bunch of Ubiquiti M gear for
outdoor networks.  You can run on any voltage <=24V.  The longer the
ethernet run, the more resistance, and therefore more resistance loss and
voltage drop along the length of the cable. For relatively short runs of
ethernet, you will have no problems running on 12V DC power, at least we
haven't.  We sometimes use injectors like this:


https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN%C2%AE-Passive-injector-ethernet-connector/dp/B00NTTHLRO/


On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 6:22 AM Michael Barnes 
wrote:

> I'm considering using some Ubiquity radios (Ubiquiti BULLET-M2-HP) for a
> field deployable network. They say they use PoE to power the units.
> However, the PoE specs say 48V, while the Bullet data sheet says says max
> 24V. Ubiquiti has their own PoE power inserters, but they run off 120V and
> I need this system to run off 12V. When I look for 12V PoE inserters, they
> are for IP cameras that run from 12V and don't follow the actual PoE
> standard 802.3af.
>
> So, will I be able to power an Ubiquiti Bullet from 12V?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
> ___
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>
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Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts Out There?

[Tyrell Jentink]

Should have looked this up before I hit 'send':
http://www.broadband-hamnet.org/hsmm-mesh-forums/view-postlist/forum-794/topic-794-emergency-power-and-poe-for-ubiquiti.html

In short: The spec (For the M2, NOT the HP... I didn't look that far) says
a minimum of 10.5v; So, get a passive injector, and run off 12v.

On Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 08:30 Tyrell Jentink  wrote:

> "Double the amperage" is nonsense... These power supplies are
> constant-voltage, the amperage is merely reporting how much current is
> available. Go into any Radio Shack and they will tell you
> that you need to match the voltage of the power supply, and EXCEED the
> Amperage <>Oh, wait
>
> The problem is that there is a TON of PoE equipment out there that doesn't
> follow 802.11af...
>
> I'm not an expert in Ubiquity expert, but there are also a ton of Amateur
> Radio operators out there using Bullet M2-HPs on field deployable
> networks... How are they powering them?
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 07:02 Louis Kowolowski 
> wrote:
>
>> You’re going to be looking at double the amperage if you cut the voltage
>> in half in order to maintain the same wattage. Simply cutting the voltage
>> in half w/o changing the amperage will result in half the power. I doubt
>> that the equipment will work properly at half the power, or with double the
>> amperage.
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 30, 2019, at 8:16 AM, Michael Barnes 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm considering using some Ubiquity radios (Ubiquiti BULLET-M2-HP) for a
>> > field deployable network. They say they use PoE to power the units.
>> > However, the PoE specs say 48V, while the Bullet data sheet says says
>> max
>> > 24V. Ubiquiti has their own PoE power inserters, but they run off 120V
>> and
>> > I need this system to run off 12V. When I look for 12V PoE inserters,
>> they
>> > are for IP cameras that run from 12V and don't follow the actual PoE
>> > standard 802.3af.
>> >
>> > So, will I be able to power an Ubiquiti Bullet from 12V?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Michael
>> > ___
>> > PLUG mailing list
>> > PLUG@pdxlinux.org
>> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>>
>> --
>> Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org
>> 
>> Cryptomonkeys:
>> http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 
>>
>> Making life more interesting for people since 1977
>>
>> ___
>> PLUG mailing list
>> PLUG@pdxlinux.org
>> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>>
>
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Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts Out There?

[Tyrell Jentink]

"Double the amperage" is nonsense... These power supplies are
constant-voltage, the amperage is merely reporting how much current is
available. Go into any Radio Shack and they will tell you
that you need to match the voltage of the power supply, and EXCEED the
Amperage <>Oh, wait

The problem is that there is a TON of PoE equipment out there that doesn't
follow 802.11af...

I'm not an expert in Ubiquity expert, but there are also a ton of Amateur
Radio operators out there using Bullet M2-HPs on field deployable
networks... How are they powering them?


On Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 07:02 Louis Kowolowski 
wrote:

> You’re going to be looking at double the amperage if you cut the voltage
> in half in order to maintain the same wattage. Simply cutting the voltage
> in half w/o changing the amperage will result in half the power. I doubt
> that the equipment will work properly at half the power, or with double the
> amperage.
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 2019, at 8:16 AM, Michael Barnes 
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm considering using some Ubiquity radios (Ubiquiti BULLET-M2-HP) for a
> > field deployable network. They say they use PoE to power the units.
> > However, the PoE specs say 48V, while the Bullet data sheet says says max
> > 24V. Ubiquiti has their own PoE power inserters, but they run off 120V
> and
> > I need this system to run off 12V. When I look for 12V PoE inserters,
> they
> > are for IP cameras that run from 12V and don't follow the actual PoE
> > standard 802.3af.
> >
> > So, will I be able to power an Ubiquiti Bullet from 12V?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Michael
> > ___
> > PLUG mailing list
> > PLUG@pdxlinux.org
> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
> --
> Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org
> 
> Cryptomonkeys:
> http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 
>
> Making life more interesting for people since 1977
>
> ___
> PLUG mailing list
> PLUG@pdxlinux.org
> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
___
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Re: [PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts Out There?

[Louis Kowolowski]

You’re going to be looking at double the amperage if you cut the voltage in 
half in order to maintain the same wattage. Simply cutting the voltage in half 
w/o changing the amperage will result in half the power. I doubt that the 
equipment will work properly at half the power, or with double the amperage.



> On Jun 30, 2019, at 8:16 AM, Michael Barnes  wrote:
> 
> I'm considering using some Ubiquity radios (Ubiquiti BULLET-M2-HP) for a
> field deployable network. They say they use PoE to power the units.
> However, the PoE specs say 48V, while the Bullet data sheet says says max
> 24V. Ubiquiti has their own PoE power inserters, but they run off 120V and
> I need this system to run off 12V. When I look for 12V PoE inserters, they
> are for IP cameras that run from 12V and don't follow the actual PoE
> standard 802.3af.
> 
> So, will I be able to power an Ubiquiti Bullet from 12V?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael
> ___
> PLUG mailing list
> PLUG@pdxlinux.org
> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug

--
Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org 

Cryptomonkeys:   http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 


Making life more interesting for people since 1977

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[PLUG] Any Ubiquiti Experts Out There?

[Michael Barnes]

I'm considering using some Ubiquity radios (Ubiquiti BULLET-M2-HP) for a
field deployable network. They say they use PoE to power the units.
However, the PoE specs say 48V, while the Bullet data sheet says says max
24V. Ubiquiti has their own PoE power inserters, but they run off 120V and
I need this system to run off 12V. When I look for 12V PoE inserters, they
are for IP cameras that run from 12V and don't follow the actual PoE
standard 802.3af.

So, will I be able to power an Ubiquiti Bullet from 12V?

Thanks,
Michael
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