Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 5 Jul 2022, Tomas Kuchta wrote:


NFS or SMB/CIFS have nothing to do with KVM sharing. Perhaps, Rich thought
that VNC is misspelled NFS, no idea.


No, NFS mounts all partitions on the remote host on the local host. I used
it a long time ago when I last had two desktops up and running. Whether my
needs would be best served by NFS or Barrier (software KVM) is yet to be
determined.

Regards,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Tomas Kuchta]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022, 17:56 Joseph Carter 
wrote:

>
> > I'll re-learn how to set up network file system (NFS) and use that to
> mount
> > the secondary desktop on the primary desktop.
> >
> > Thanks for sharing!
>
> These days it seems like SMB is the most standard solution for that. I
> know people want nothing to do with SMB because "it's a Microsoft thing" …
> but no, at this point it's kind of not. Both Apple and the Samba team have
> extended SMB quite a bit for specifically working with UNIX systems. Not
> just UNIX permissions either—ACLs and extended attributes too. These things
> typically are not supported by the aging NFS systems out there. If NFS
> gives you any headaches, I recommend giving samba a shot.
>

NFS or SMB/CIFS have nothing to do with KVM sharing. Perhaps, Rich thought
that VNC is misspelled NFS, no idea.

That said, please re-discover modern NFS before making these
sweeping/generalized statements.

The major point of NFS is meant for multi-user system like *nix. It can be
mounted by the system without sharing user credentials. It is more
performant, distributed, ...

In short, NFS is different kind of animal than CIFS. Both NFS and CIFS
serve different purpose and come from different starting points.

Just my 2¢, -T

>

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 5 Jul 2022, Joseph Carter wrote:


These days it seems like SMB is the most standard solution for that. I
know people want nothing to do with SMB because "it's a Microsoft thing" …
but no, at this point it's kind of not. Both Apple and the Samba team have
extended SMB quite a bit for specifically working with UNIX systems. Not
just UNIX permissions either—ACLs and extended attributes too. These
things typically are not supported by the aging NFS systems out there. If
NFS gives you any headaches, I recommend giving samba a shot.


Joseph,

I found a software KVM: barrier. As the Slackbuilds.org package description
says, "Barrier is KVM software forked from Symless's synergy 1.9 codebase.
Synergy was a commercialized reimplementation of the original CosmoSynergy
written by Chris Schoeneman. Whereas synergy has moved beyond its goals from
the 1.x era, Barrier aims to maintain that simplicity. Barrier will let you
use your keyboard and mouse from machine A to control machine B (or more).
It's that simple."

I finish assembling the other desktop Real Soon Now and will learn how
barrier works.

Regards,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Joseph Carter]

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 14:41, Rich Shepard wrote:
>> 1. It's astonishing that a brand new USB-C KVM switch knows what a windows
>> key is, since they all seem to be built with otherwise 101 key PC-AT/PS2
>> keyboards and never tested (and definitely never working with) absolutely
>> anything else.
>
> Joseph,
>
> I use small keyboards (mini-keyboards) that are the same size and
> configuration as those on laptops. I never had a use for separate number
> pads or the other windoze-specific stuff they put on them.

My keyboard is an 87 key, a "tenkeyless" model. It has the option (the option, 
mind you) of NKRO. That means it has a full USB HID device mode, as opposed to 
"USB boot protocol" (read AT keyboard emulation for BIOS), but that's turned 
off. No, it doesn't support things like … with a function key, I can control 
volume. It doesn't support the difference between left and right alt keys, the 
latter being typically used on International keyboards to type things like é 
and ü. As well as “ and ” and modern conveniences like 浪 which is how I feel 
when trying to find a KVM that actually supports a modern keyboard.

The keyboard I'm typing on now literally disconnects/reconnects over and over 
again from the last keyboard I tried. But a couple of others don't work with it 
either. They work with my older KVM, but this one doesn't.

Possibly because this one has a built-in USB hub for a mouse? *shrug*


>> 2. Randomly disconnecting video and input devices from X.org seems to send
>> it into a permanent DPMS power saving mode from which it refuses to wake
>> up.
>
> So Tomas wrote, too.

This is the big one. All the rest I could find a solution for. I like my 
QMK-powered keyboard that doesn't support the last KVM I tried at all, but … I 
could get another. I like having volume control at my keyboard, but I could 
program something more mundane to control that. The screen randomly shutting 
off and refusing to ever turn back on and having no way to force it back on is 
a deal-breaker.


>> 3. They just seem to suddenly stop working, randomly.
>
> That's not nice.
>
> I'll re-learn how to set up network file system (NFS) and use that to mount
> the secondary desktop on the primary desktop.
>
> Thanks for sharing!

These days it seems like SMB is the most standard solution for that. I know 
people want nothing to do with SMB because "it's a Microsoft thing" … but no, 
at this point it's kind of not. Both Apple and the Samba team have extended SMB 
quite a bit for specifically working with UNIX systems. Not just UNIX 
permissions either—ACLs and extended attributes too. These things typically are 
not supported by the aging NFS systems out there. If NFS gives you any 
headaches, I recommend giving samba a shot.

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022, Michael Barnes wrote:


I can't remember the brand name, but in a previous life, I had a bunch of
computers and used a couple KVM over Ethernet devices.


Michael,

Is this similar to what you used? It looks like it would work for me and
have advantages over nfs or ssh.

I'm sure I can find an adapter to connect the video cards' mini displayport
to the switch's hdmi port.



Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Michael Barnes]

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 07:48 Rich Shepard  wrote:

> I want to purchase a KVM switch that allows me to switch an HP Compaq
> LA1951g monitor between two desktop workstations. One workstation has a
> Radeon Pro WX 4100 video card with 4 mini-displayports, the other has a
> Radeon Pro WX 2100 video card with 2 mini-displayports and 1 displayport.
>
> My web searches find KVM switches for 2 or 3 monitors and a couple of hits
> for 1 monitor/2 computers (the latter presents Newegg and Amazon), but the
> descriptions all say 'dual monitors.'
>
> Not being a hardware guy I need recommendations for a KVM switch that would
> allow me to use one USB/DIN keyboard and trackball and the 1280x1024
> monitor
> with two desktop workstations which have mini-display ports in common. (I
> assume there are mini-displayport to displayport adapters, and vice versa.)
>
> Rich
>

I can't remember the brand name, but in a previous life, I had a bunch of
computers and used a couple KVM over Ethernet devices. They came in 4, 8,
and 16 port versions. There was a dongle at each computer that connected
via an Ethernet cable to a console box with the peripherals attached. The
nice thing was the dongle always presented connections to the computer, so
it never knew when the console was not in use. You brought up a list on the
screen with a hot key and selected the computer you wanted. It also had a
scan feature so, when it was not in active use, it would step through the
list and display each screen for a short time. It was pretty slick. Maybe a
search for KVM over Ethernet net may find something for you.
There were different dongles for VGA and DVI, but I would imagine they now
have HDMI and display port versions.

Michael

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Robert Citek]

Out-of-band management, e.g. DRAC, does work from boot up.  But that's for
servers and a few high-end desktops.  But you have to ask yourself, how
often are you messing with the BIOS and/or firmware?

VMs are a nice solution, too: minimal OS + hypervisor on the hardware, then
full OS in a VM.  For example, VMWare's ESXi.  You can view and manage the
boot up from within a browser.

That said, I've had very good experiences with Avocent KVM over IP
switches.  They are wonderful for managing bare metal in distant data
centers or just across the room.

Regards,
- Robert


On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 3:44 PM Tomas Kuchta 
wrote:

> Just a comment about all the ssh/vnc/synergy/whatever solutions - they
> obviously do not work with BIOS or with full disk encryption (before boot).
>
> This is limitation not a bug. So, do not burry your the computers in real
> hard to reach places.
>
> -T
>

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Tomas Kuchta]

Just a comment about all the ssh/vnc/synergy/whatever solutions - they
obviously do not work with BIOS or with full disk encryption (before boot).

This is limitation not a bug. So, do not burry your the computers in real
hard to reach places.

-T

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022, Larry Brigman wrote:


A program called "Synergy" from symless.com There is(was) an open source
version for a while and it worked for me.


Larry,

There's a fork of synergy called barrier (which is FOSS) along with other
alternatives:
.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Larry Brigman]

I had issues with kvm too.
I finally gave up.
I did find an alternative that seems to work at least for me.

A program called "Synergy" from symless.com

There is(was) an open source version for a while and it worked for me.

YMMV

https://symless.com/synergy

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022, 5:40 AM Rich Shepard  wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
>
> > Tomas' use case seems simpler than mine and Rich's.
>
> Keith,
>
> You use two monitors, both displaying what's on a single computer, and
> switch between two computers. I will have a single monitor displaying
> applications on two desktops. That was my setup a long time ago, and I then
> used NFS, so I'll re-learn how to set that up because it's more reliable
> than KVM switches as I've been told by those who have felt the pain.
>
> > I'm guessing Rich (who, like me, is no spring chicken) has a similar
> > legacy accumulation of ancient and custom tools. For months, I've been
> > porting and failing and tweaking and (re)discovering flaws and
> > workarounds. I hope to create work platforms that I can maintain into
> > advanced old age.
>
> Both desktops (and the laptop) run Slackware so upgraded applications that
> work on one will work on the others.
>
> In 2003 I went through the pains of switching distributions, from Red
> Hat-7.0 to Slackware-8.0. It did take a while to rebuild essential tools
> and
> learn the new package management system.
>
> Stay healthy,
>
> Rich
>
>

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022, Keith Lofstrom wrote:


Tomas' use case seems simpler than mine and Rich's.


Keith,

You use two monitors, both displaying what's on a single computer, and
switch between two computers. I will have a single monitor displaying
applications on two desktops. That was my setup a long time ago, and I then
used NFS, so I'll re-learn how to set that up because it's more reliable
than KVM switches as I've been told by those who have felt the pain.


I'm guessing Rich (who, like me, is no spring chicken) has a similar
legacy accumulation of ancient and custom tools. For months, I've been
porting and failing and tweaking and (re)discovering flaws and
workarounds. I hope to create work platforms that I can maintain into
advanced old age.


Both desktops (and the laptop) run Slackware so upgraded applications that
work on one will work on the others.

In 2003 I went through the pains of switching distributions, from Red
Hat-7.0 to Slackware-8.0. It did take a while to rebuild essential tools and
learn the new package management system.

Stay healthy,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Keith Lofstrom]

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 10:48 Rich Shepard  wrote:
> I want to purchase a KVM switch that allows me to switch an HP Compaq
> LA1951g monitor between two desktop workstations. One workstation has a
> Radeon Pro WX 4100 video card with 4 mini-displayports, the other has a
> Radeon Pro WX 2100 video card with 2 mini-displayports and 1 displayport.

I use DVI monitors, so I'm unqualified to recommend
displayport switches. 

For DVI, I've had good luck with IOGEAR GCS932UB switches,
because they retain and provide monitor "EDID" records (if
powered), very useful when changing/rebooting computers.
I buy these switches "open box new" from eBay.  Such older
hardware matches older reviews and accumulated (10% useful)
Q/A on the web.

A second IOGEAR replaced a two port DVI switch (free to an
evil home) that does NOT remember EDID.   In between was
another cheap switch that "remembered" a preset EDID record
for runtscreen (aka "widescreen") monitors.   That did not
work at all with my favored Planar 1910 4x5 monitors.

One computer's video card is dual displayport; I have
dongles converting that to DVI for the switches.  

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 11:05:13AM -0400, Tomas Kuchta wrote:
> I find kvm switches to be nothing, but a frustration with modern desktop.
> Most kvm will keep one of the computers disconnected at all times. This
> results in not activating graphics card output or some desktop size issues.

Tomas' use case seems simpler than mine and Rich's. 

As I write this, I am migrating from ancient Redhat distros
and decades of accumulated production processes (back to
BSD4) to an Ubuntu 20.04.3 distro with MANY new (and often
irksome) behaviors.  Soon, 22.04.1, after that matures.

A lot of "de-snapping" - I  do NOT need yet another limited
package provisioning system.  I may be driven to pure
Debian, forget the Canonical bells and whistles.

I run two screens switched between two computers to perform
MANY A/B comparisons ... always the perennial question,
"why did it work before and not now?"  

Indeed, some of the displays and comparisons are "virtual"
and can be enabled by SSH, but too many of the oldest apps
are custom, fragile, and network-unaware.  

I'm guessing Rich (who, like me, is no spring chicken) has
a similar legacy accumulation of ancient and custom tools.
For months, I've been porting and failing and tweaking and
(re)discovering flaws and workarounds.  I hope to create
work platforms that I can maintain into advanced old age. 

I ponder my 104yo father-in-law; how can I keep using my 
tools when I am his age?  How can I dotage-proof my
systems?

Someday, I may forget how to push the little buttons
under each monitor to switch between computers, but they
are much easier to understand than ssh.

At this very moment, I am migrating moinmoin wiki content
from version 1.9.8 to 1.9.11.  Mostly easy, except that
the ancient user password encryption method I've used 
since moinmoin 1.4.x has been dropped; extracting old
passwords and updating them to the new method is vexing.
 
A planned finishing touch is designing a homebrew toolbar
icon that reminds me which computer and distro is driving
which screen.  For now, I do that with the desktop
background, but my working desktops are littered with 
dozens of open windows and apps covering the background.

This will all be easier, and A/B switching will be rarer,
after I complete this vexing migration (on these two
computers, six laptops, and an offsite virtual server
hosting a dozen URLs).   

But this won't be the last obsolescence-driven migration,
so I plan for more challenging future migrations when I
have even less mental capability.  I stockpile spares
and write notes on the house wiki, printed to a file of
paper in case of computer or screen failure.

-

Some of the advanced systems I design won't be complete for
*centuries*, so I also attempt to anticipate the needs of
owners/users/victims whose great-great-grandparents haven't
been born yet.  But then, I still use some of my great
grandfather's hand tools, brought to Oregon from Sweden by
my grandfather in 1911.

( http://keithl.com/ticket1.png ; Tomas - save your first
  US arrival plane ticket for your own future grandchild )

Keith

-- 
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022, Joseph Carter wrote:


1. It's astonishing that a brand new USB-C KVM switch knows what a windows
key is, since they all seem to be built with otherwise 101 key PC-AT/PS2
keyboards and never tested (and definitely never working with) absolutely
anything else.


Joseph,

I use small keyboards (mini-keyboards) that are the same size and
configuration as those on laptops. I never had a use for separate number
pads or the other windoze-specific stuff they put on them.


2. Randomly disconnecting video and input devices from X.org seems to send
it into a permanent DPMS power saving mode from which it refuses to wake
up.


So Tomas wrote, too.


3. They just seem to suddenly stop working, randomly.


That's not nice.

I'll re-learn how to set up network file system (NFS) and use that to mount
the secondary desktop on the primary desktop.

Thanks for sharing!

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Joseph Carter]

I agree they're annoying, frustrating, irritating, and just plain obnoxious.

But if you need one, there just isn't a substitute. There's two … three … 
serious problems I've had with them, in general:

1. It's astonishing that a brand new USB-C KVM switch knows what a windows key 
is, since they all seem to be built with otherwise 101 key PC-AT/PS2 keyboards 
and never tested (and definitely never working with) absolutely anything else. 
No matter what. I don't care what they claim on the package, if your keyboard 
cost more than $3 it's probably not supported. (Do I sound like I have opinions 
about this for some reason?)

2. Randomly disconnecting video and input devices from X.org seems to send it 
into a permanent DPMS power saving mode from which it refuses to wake up. Your 
computer appears to be not connected. You can change VTs … but you can't wake 
up the session you've got. (If someone knows how to fix this, do please let me 
know.) It happens with Intel, AMD, and OMG don't even try to use a KVM with 
Nvidia on Linux.

3. They just seem to suddenly stop working, randomly. Sometimes temporarily, 
sometimes permanently. Maybe it's overheated. Maybe it's frozen. Maybe it's 
cosmic rays. Maybe it just doesn't feel like working today. Maybe you didn't 
spend enough on the thing, although spending $100 or $900 doesn't seem to 
actually make much difference for most of these problems.

When you need a physical screen, keyboard, and mouse on more than one machine 
in the same small location … there just isn't any other good way to do it. If 
not for the above issues, it doesn't matter if the thing emulates EDID or not, 
it doesn't matter if the USB devices physically disconnect/reconnect on device 
switching, whatever, it doesn't matter, I'd deal with it. But I literally just 
bought a new one that explicitly claimed to work with keyboards that have 
enhanced features like NKRO and more keys. It doesn't. 浪

Joseph

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 07:48, Rich Shepard wrote:
> I want to purchase a KVM switch that allows me to switch an HP Compaq
> LA1951g monitor between two desktop workstations. One workstation has a
> Radeon Pro WX 4100 video card with 4 mini-displayports, the other has a
> Radeon Pro WX 2100 video card with 2 mini-displayports and 1 displayport.
>
> My web searches find KVM switches for 2 or 3 monitors and a couple of hits
> for 1 monitor/2 computers (the latter presents Newegg and Amazon), but the
> descriptions all say 'dual monitors.'
>
> Not being a hardware guy I need recommendations for a KVM switch that would
> allow me to use one USB/DIN keyboard and trackball and the 1280x1024 monitor
> with two desktop workstations which have mini-display ports in common. (I
> assume there are mini-displayport to displayport adapters, and vice versa.)
>
> Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022, Rich Shepard wrote:


I used ssh in the past. That's a less expensive and space-consuming
option. Certainly worth more consideration.


I've used ssh between laptops and desktop (local and remote) and long ago
used NFS. Perhaps I'll use the latter for the two desktops.

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022, Tomas Kuchta wrote:


I find kvm switches to be nothing, but a frustration with modern desktop.
Most kvm will keep one of the computers disconnected at all times. This
results in not activating graphics card output or some desktop size
issues.


Tomas,

Interesting.


Keith discussed it in older thread.


As I recall, Keith's need is for one computer and two monitors.


As result - I keep my multimedia PC connected to screen and access
everything else by VNC or ssh from the multimedia (assigned, not special)
PC. It also saves my desk space.


I used ssh in the past. That's a less expensive and space-consuming option.
Certainly worth more consideration.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Hardware recommendations: KVM switch

[Tomas Kuchta]

I find kvm switches to be nothing, but a frustration with modern desktop.
Most kvm will keep one of the computers disconnected at all times. This
results in not activating graphics card output or some desktop size issues.

Keith discussed it in older thread.

As result - I keep my multimedia PC connected to screen and access
everything else by VNC or ssh from the multimedia (assigned, not special)
PC. It also saves my desk space.

HTH, Tomas

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 10:48 Rich Shepard  wrote:

> I want to purchase a KVM switch that allows me to switch an HP Compaq
> LA1951g monitor between two desktop workstations. One workstation has a
> Radeon Pro WX 4100 video card with 4 mini-displayports, the other has a
> Radeon Pro WX 2100 video card with 2 mini-displayports and 1 displayport.
>
> My web searches find KVM switches for 2 or 3 monitors and a couple of hits
> for 1 monitor/2 computers (the latter presents Newegg and Amazon), but the
> descriptions all say 'dual monitors.'
>
> Not being a hardware guy I need recommendations for a KVM switch that would
> allow me to use one USB/DIN keyboard and trackball and the 1280x1024
> monitor
> with two desktop workstations which have mini-display ports in common. (I
> assume there are mini-displayport to displayport adapters, and vice versa.)
>
> Rich
>