Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 16:26:21 -0700 Michael Barnes wrote: > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 10:34 AM wrote: > > > Homeless are people first and foremost and deserving of respect > > as such despite their lack of an address to call home. > > > > > Respect is earned, not deserved. As I look around and see the various > homeless folks camping under bridges, in parks, blocking bike paths, > etc. I see nothing but disgusting garbage heaps. I see a huge > mish-mash of tarps and tents, grocery carts, bicycle parts, bags and > trash strewn everywhere. This is not a sight that commands respect, > rather contempt. I understand homelessness, I have been homeless > myself a few times over the years. But I retained the self respect to > remain clean, neat, and orderly. Regardless of the circumstances, > there is absolutely zero excuse for these trash piles. As long as > these people seem intent on creating these situations, they will > continue to be turned away and locked out. It is unfortunate the > result impacts innocent users, but I understand PSU's position. They > simply don't have the resources to constantly clean up after these > abusers. > > Michael > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug McMinnville had a homeless problem too. We put up with people parking their cars on curbs and people living in the park because we understood that happens and the situation these people must be in. However, the hospitality stopped as soon as some of those people started leaving garbage on the streets polluting the place. Harassing passerbys with slurs and taunts, and bike theft going through the roof. McMinnville cares a lot about maintaining our community. So much so we have volunteers that go around after major tourist events making sure to pick up and properly dispose of/recycle anything that missed the bin. When that happens it's not just a matter of being uncomfortable, but believe me it did make people uncomfortable. So much in fact so that people who walked to work would purposefully detour their routes around the camps for fear of being harassed or walking through filth. It's a matter of the filth of reducing business for local shops. Now don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with being homeless, but as soon as you start disrespecting our city and people you not just being homeless. Your littering and causing a disturbance. That is the point in which police come and tell you you have to leave. And let me tell you just how bad it got before something was done. There was a van that was FILLED to the brim with garbage, old wrappers, rusty (potentially stolen bike parts), and the surrounded area was covered in nasty forgotten soggy shirts and the like. Every other dumpster block and shrubbery was planted with bike parts. The parking garage become a hotbed for drug deals and become so dangerous the bus removed that stop from their route for safety concerns. Places don't start amping up security just because homeless people are there. It's when people start disrespecting the space countermeasures are put in place. I understand the college's decision to tighten security. yeah it sucks but I am sure it was a necessary measure. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
Thanks John, For once in my life, I did not butcher a language! Miracle! LOL -T On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 12:37 John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) > Rich Shepard dijo: > > >> I just googled ... > > > >Eschew noun verbification!! > > Nonsense. English can verb anything. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Rich Shepard dijo: >> I just googled ... > >Eschew noun verbification!! Nonsense. English can verb anything. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, tomas.kuchta.li...@gmail.com wrote: I just googled ... Eschew noun verbification!! Rich ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019, Denis Heidtmann wrote: Who, then, has the resources to deal with the unpleasantness of trash heaps left by the mentally ill, those who never had the opportunity to learn clean habits, those who no longer give a shit? What is the solution? Denis, Perhaps group homes with qualified professional care-takers in multiple neighborhoods? Rich ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
>> > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to > > > >> > > > > plug@pdxlinux.org > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > >> > > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > >> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > >> > > > > plug-requ...@pdxlinux.org > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > >> > > > > plug-ow...@pdxlinux.org > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > > >> specific > > > >> > > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Today's Topics: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > >1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) > > > >> > > > >2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) > > > >> > > > >3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) > > > >> > > > >4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) > > > >> > > > >5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) > > > >> > > > >6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) > > > >> > > > >7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 1 > > > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > > > >> > > > > From: Ben Koenig > > > >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > > > >> > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com > > > > > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > > >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > > >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav > > > >> services for > > > >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, > or > > > >> anything > > > >> > > > > > else than handles caldav... > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to > > which > > > >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending > > ways > > > >> to get > > > >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility > with > > > >> Android, > > > >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. > > > >> Tracking > > > >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within > that > > > >> OS, so > > > >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail > > > >> account. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd > > > >> defaults to > > > >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a > > fallback > > > >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is > > implemented > > > >> at > > > >> > > > > compile time. L
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
ying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > >> specific > > >> > > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Today's Topics: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) > > >> > > > >2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) > > >> > > > >3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) > > >> > > > >4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) > > >> > > > >5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) > > >> > > > >6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) > > >> > > > >7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> -- > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 1 > > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > > >> > > > > From: Ben Koenig > > >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > > >> > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav > > >> services for > > >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or > > >> anything > > >> > > > > > else than handles caldav... > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to > which > > >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending > ways > > >> to get > > >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with > > >> Android, > > >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. > > >> Tracking > > >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that > > >> OS, so > > >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail > > >> account. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd > > >> defaults to > > >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a > fallback > > >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is > implemented > > >> at > > >> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP > > >> tracking, you > > >> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you > > >> want to > > >> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and > Ubuntu > > >> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even > Mozilla > > >> links > > >> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use > for > > >> > > tracking > > >> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send > data to > > >> > > > > google servers > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
eless... (Michael Barnes) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 1 > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > >> > > > > From: Ben Koenig > >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > >> > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav > >> services for > >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or > >> anything > >> > > > > > else than handles caldav... > >> > > > > > >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to > which > >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways > >> to get > >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with > >> Android, > >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. > >> Tracking > >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that > >> OS, so > >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail > >> account. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd > >> defaults to > >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a > fallback > >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is > implemented > >> at > >> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP > >> tracking, you > >> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you > >> want to > >> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and > Ubuntu > >> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even > Mozilla > >> links > >> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for > >> > > tracking > >> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data > to > >> > > > > google servers > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 2 > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > >> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan > >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > >> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > >> > > > > Rich Shepard dijo: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple > >> > > > > >resolution. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > +1 > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 3 > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 > >> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann > >> > > > > To:
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
387...@gmail.com> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav >> services for >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or >> anything >> > > > > > else than handles caldav... >> > > > > >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways >> to get >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with >> Android, >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. >> Tracking >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that >> OS, so >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail >> account. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd >> defaults to >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented >> at >> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP >> tracking, you >> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you >> want to >> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu >> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla >> links >> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for >> > > tracking >> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to >> > > > > google servers >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > Message: 2 >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 >> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... >> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) >> > > > > Rich Shepard dijo: >> > > > > >> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple >> > > > > >resolution. >> > > > > >> > > > > +1 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > Message: 3 >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 >> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann >> > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM >> > > > > Message-ID: >> > > > > < >> > > > > >> caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> > > > > >> > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even >> though >> > > > there >> > > > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in >> one of >> > > > > their customers. >> > > > > -Denis >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior < >> > > > russ...@personaltelco.net> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > I am a
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
2019 13:01:29 -0700 >> > > > > From: Ben Koenig >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking >> > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav >> services for >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or >> anything >> > > > > > else than handles caldav... >> > > > > >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways >> to get >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with >> Android, >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. >> Tracking >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that >> OS, so >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail >> account. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd >> defaults to >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented >> at >> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP >> tracking, you >> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you >> want to >> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu >> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla >> links >> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for >> > > tracking >> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to >> > > > > google servers >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > Message: 2 >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 >> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... >> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) >> > > > > Rich Shepard dijo: >> > > > > >> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple >> > > > > >resolution. >> > > > > >> > > > > +1 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > Message: 3 >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 >> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann >> > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM >> > > > > Message-ID: >> > > > > < >> > > > > >> caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> > > > > >> > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even >> though >> > > > there >> > > > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in >> one of >> > > > > their customers. >> > > > > -Denis &g
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
; > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav >> services for >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or >> anything >> > > > > > else than handles caldav... >> > > > > >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways >> to get >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with >> Android, >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. >> Tracking >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that >> OS, so >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail >> account. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd >> defaults to >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented >> at >> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP >> tracking, you >> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you >> want to >> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu >> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla >> links >> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for >> > > tracking >> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to >> > > > > google servers >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > Message: 2 >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 >> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan >> > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... >> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) >> > > > > Rich Shepard dijo: >> > > > > >> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple >> > > > > >resolution. >> > > > > >> > > > > +1 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > Message: 3 >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 >> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann >> > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM >> > > > > Message-ID: >> > > > > < >> > > > > >> caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> > > > > >> > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even >> though >> > > > there >> > > > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in >> one of >> > > > > their customers. >> > > > > -Denis >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior < >> > > > russ...@personaltelco.net> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
gt; > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav > services for > > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or > anything > > > > > > else than handles caldav... > > > > > > > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which > > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways > to get > > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with > Android, > > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. > Tracking > > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS, > so > > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail > account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd > defaults to > > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented > at > > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, > you > > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want > to > > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla > links > > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for > > > tracking > > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to > > > > > google servers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > > > > > From: John Jason Jordan > > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > Rich Shepard dijo: > > > > > > > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple > > > > > >resolution. > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 > > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann > > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" > > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > < > > > > > caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even > though > > > > there > > > > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in > one of > > > > > their customers. > > > > > -Denis > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior < > > > > russ...@personaltelco.net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've been > there > > > > > forever, > > > > > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not least > > > > because > > > > > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a good > central > > > > > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we picket > the > > > PSU > > > > > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate whether > a > > > room > > > > > in > > > > > >
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
; > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways > to get > > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with > Android, > > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. > Tracking > > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS, > so > > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail > account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd > defaults to > > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented > at > > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, > you > > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want > to > > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla > links > > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for > > > tracking > > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to > > > > > google servers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > > > > > From: John Jason Jordan > > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > Rich Shepard dijo: > > > > > > > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple > > > > > >resolution. > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 > > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann > > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" > > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > < > > > > > caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even > though > > > > there > > > > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in > one of > > > > > their customers. > > > > > -Denis > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior < > > > > russ...@personaltelco.net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've been > there > > > > > forever, > > > > > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not least > > > > because > > > > > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a good > central > > > > > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we picket > the > > > PSU > > > > > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate whether > a > > > room > > > > > in > > > > > > a different building might work. I recall we were in Smith for > quite > > > a > > > > > > while before moving to the Engineering building. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:27 PM Vince Winter < > > > > vince.win...@freegeek.org> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey,
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
from my gmail > account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd > defaults to > > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented > at > > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, > you > > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want > to > > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla > links > > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for > > > tracking > > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to > > > > > google servers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > > > > > From: John Jason Jordan > > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > Rich Shepard dijo: > > > > > > > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple > > > > > >resolution. > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 3 > > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 > > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann > > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" > > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > < > > > > > caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > > > > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even > though > > > > there > > > > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in > one of > > > > > their customers. > > > > > -Denis > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior < > > > > russ...@personaltelco.net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've been > there > > > > > forever, > > > > > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not least > > > > because > > > > > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a good > central > > > > > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we picket > the > > > PSU > > > > > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate whether > a > > > room > > > > > in > > > > > > a different building might work. I recall we were in Smith for > quite > > > a > > > > > > while before moving to the Engineering building. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:27 PM Vince Winter < > > > > vince.win...@freegeek.org> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can try to convince free geek to host on Sundays during the > day > > > > > > 11am-5pm > > > > > > > area? They maybe open to that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried reaching out to the campus security to see if > they > > > > would > > > > > > be > > > > > > > open to having someone help with door between 645 to 715? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
At 08:55 PM 9/22/2019, Ben Koenig wrote: Maybe this is just me, but my inbox has a message where someone used this conversation to pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant for no particular reason. "pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant" for observing that "Trump is cleaning up some of the faster than Obama did. That sounds a lot like hyper liberal exxageration to me. Does anyone know who "Jim Karlock" is? Look me up on Google Scholar. I'm wondering if he even uses linux YES. Not very proficient, but I use it almost daily. because he just fired off a lot of hyper conservative BS in a very short amount of time. Hyper conservative BS?? Interesting characterization of a counter to hyper greenie BS! Look up the factual accuracy of what I posted and compare it to the other guy. Please do not use any greenie web sites that raise money be scaring people about the environment as sources. EPA will have the data. Look at the data, not the text as that is often political. BTW - this is a lot off topic, so, having defended myself, lets call it quits. Thanks JK On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:06 PM Brian Rohan wrote: > Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they are homeless > because they don't have an IPv6 address. > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM wrote: > > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to > > > plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > plug-requ...@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > plug-ow...@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > >1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) > > >2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) > > >3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) > > >4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) > > >5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) > > >6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) > > >7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > > > From: Ben Koenig > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > > > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav services for > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or anything > > > > else than handles caldav... > > > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways to get > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with Android, > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. Tracking > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS, so > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > > > > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail account. > > > > > > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd defaults to > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented at > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, you > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want to > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > > > > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla links > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for > tracking > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
I just googled Jim Karlock - he is apparently famous/infamous in Oregon. Given the wide spread of his activities - and the amount publicity generated - he is either very busy man or "he" must have a helping hands - to pay attention to our little insignificant and mostly apolitical forum. -T On Sun, 2019-09-22 at 20:55 -0700, Ben Koenig wrote: > Maybe this is just me, but my inbox has a message where someone used this > conversation to pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant for no particular > reason. > > Does anyone know who "Jim Karlock" is? I'm wondering if he even uses linux > because he just fired off a lot of hyper conservative BS in a very short > amount of time. > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:06 PM Brian Rohan wrote: > > > Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they are homeless > > because they don't have an IPv6 address. > > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM wrote: > > > > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to > > > > plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > plug-requ...@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > plug-ow...@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > >1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) > > > >2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) > > > >3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) > > > >4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) > > > >5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) > > > >6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) > > > >7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > > > > From: Ben Koenig > > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav services for > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or anything > > > > > else than handles caldav... > > > > > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways to get > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with Android, > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. Tracking > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS, so > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail account. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd defaults to > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented at > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, you > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want to > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla links > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for > > > > tracking > > > > is totally different from e
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
Maybe this is just me, but my inbox has a message where someone used this conversation to pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant for no particular reason. Does anyone know who "Jim Karlock" is? I'm wondering if he even uses linux because he just fired off a lot of hyper conservative BS in a very short amount of time. On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:06 PM Brian Rohan wrote: > Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they are homeless > because they don't have an IPv6 address. > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM wrote: > > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to > > > plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > plug-requ...@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > plug-ow...@pdxlinux.org > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > >1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) > > >2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) > > >3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) > > >4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) > > >5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) > > >6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) > > >7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > > > From: Ben Koenig > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > > > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav services for > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or anything > > > > else than handles caldav... > > > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways to get > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with Android, > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. Tracking > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS, so > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > > > > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail account. > > > > > > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd defaults to > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented at > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, you > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want to > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > > > > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla links > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for > tracking > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to > > > google servers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > > > From: John Jason Jordan > > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > > > Rich Shepard dijo: > > > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple > > > >resolution. > > > > > > +1 > > > > &g
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they are homeless because they don't have an IPv6 address. On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. wrote: > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM wrote: > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to > > plug@pdxlinux.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > plug-requ...@pdxlinux.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > plug-ow...@pdxlinux.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > >1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) > >2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) > >3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) > >4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) > >5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) > >6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) > >7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > > From: Ben Koenig > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav services for > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or anything > > > else than handles caldav... > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways to get > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with Android, > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. Tracking > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS, so > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail account. > > > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd defaults to > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented at > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, you > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want to > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla links > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for tracking > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to > > google servers > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > > From: John Jason Jordan > > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > > Rich Shepard dijo: > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple > > >resolution. > > > > +1 > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 > > From: Denis Heidtmann > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM > > Message-ID: > > < > > caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even though > there > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in one of > > their customers. > > -Denis > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior < > russ...@personaltelco.net> > > wrote: > > > > > I am a fan of Portland
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
At 06:50 PM 9/22/2019, Mike C. wrote: > View Seattle is Dying on YouTube for one viewpoint on the problem. > > I've seen it, wasn't impressed by nor did I agree wit it because it doesn't address the root cause of alcohol, drug, tobacco and other addictions. Most often addiction is the result of trauma, abuse, social disconnection in which their basic human needs aren't being met and mental illness such as depression in which people are simply seeking a respite from their own suffering not unlike many housed people do when they drink and adult beverage, partake of the herb or otherwise entertain/distract themselves in the privacy of their own home. Apparently you missed the section oh how one state is dealing with the problem. They are claiming good success rates. thanks JK ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM wrote: > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to > plug@pdxlinux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > plug-requ...@pdxlinux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > plug-ow...@pdxlinux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) >2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) >3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) >4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) >5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) >6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) >7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > From: Ben Koenig > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav services for > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or anything > > else than handles caldav... > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways to get > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with Android, > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. Tracking > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS, so > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail account. > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd defaults to > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented at > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking, you > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want to > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla links > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for tracking > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to > google servers > > > > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > From: John Jason Jordan > To: plug@pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > Rich Shepard dijo: > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple > >resolution. > > +1 > > > -- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 > From: Denis Heidtmann > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM > Message-ID: > < > caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even though there > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let in one of > their customers. > -Denis > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior > wrote: > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've been there > forever, > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not least because > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a good central > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we picket the PSU > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate whether a room > in > > a different building might work. I recall we were in Smith for quite a > > while before moving to the Engineering building. > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:27 PM Vince Winter > > wrote: > > > > > Hey, > > > > > > I can try to convince free geek to host on Sundays during the day > > 11am-5pm > > > area? They maybe op
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
Who, then, has the resources to deal with the unpleasantness of trash heaps left by the mentally ill, those who never had the opportunity to learn clean habits, those who no longer give a shit? What is the solution? -Denis On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:26 PM Michael Barnes wrote: > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 10:34 AM wrote: > > > Homeless are people first and foremost and deserving of respect > > as such despite their lack of an address to call home. > > > > > Respect is earned, not deserved. As I look around and see the various > homeless folks camping under bridges, in parks, blocking bike paths, etc. I > see nothing but disgusting garbage heaps. I see a huge mish-mash of tarps > and tents, grocery carts, bicycle parts, bags and trash strewn everywhere. > This is not a sight that commands respect, rather contempt. I understand > homelessness, I have been homeless myself a few times over the years. But I > retained the self respect to remain clean, neat, and orderly. Regardless of > the circumstances, there is absolutely zero excuse for these trash piles. > As long as these people seem intent on creating these situations, they will > continue to be turned away and locked out. It is unfortunate the result > impacts innocent users, but I understand PSU's position. They simply don't > have the resources to constantly clean up after these abusers. > > Michael > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 10:34 AM wrote: > Homeless are people first and foremost and deserving of respect > as such despite their lack of an address to call home. > > Respect is earned, not deserved. As I look around and see the various homeless folks camping under bridges, in parks, blocking bike paths, etc. I see nothing but disgusting garbage heaps. I see a huge mish-mash of tarps and tents, grocery carts, bicycle parts, bags and trash strewn everywhere. This is not a sight that commands respect, rather contempt. I understand homelessness, I have been homeless myself a few times over the years. But I retained the self respect to remain clean, neat, and orderly. Regardless of the circumstances, there is absolutely zero excuse for these trash piles. As long as these people seem intent on creating these situations, they will continue to be turned away and locked out. It is unfortunate the result impacts innocent users, but I understand PSU's position. They simply don't have the resources to constantly clean up after these abusers. Michael ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
Actually it is a very simple, two tiered, problem: 1. Cost of housing is ONLY in areas with severe restrictions on building on unused land. In Oregon & Washington it is Urban Grown Boundaries. They have doubled cost of rents/ housing. Simple economics - they create a shortage of land, which drives up the price. In Portland's low income are, Lents, a parcel recently sold for ONE MILLION/ acra which is about $125,000 for a 5000 sf empty lot. Portland adds at lease $50,000 to that for permission to build. When you start with almost $200,000 in cost BEFORE building anything, you cannot build affordable houses. 2. People who simply cannot afford rent, end up living with friends, sharing an apartment, living in a camper or moving to another area. There are many successful services for this group. They generally do not end up in tests surrounded by needles. 3. Tent people are about 50-80% drug/alcohol addicts, some mentally ill that probably should be in institutions, and criminals who no one will rent to. You may have noted an increase in people doing absolutely crazy things described as a mental health crisis - mostly illegal drug use. View Seattle is Dying on YouTube for one viewpoint on the problem. thanks JK At 10:46 AM 9/22/2019, you wrote: On Sun, 22 Sep 2019, mich...@robinson-west.com wrote: I hear that San Francisco isn't any better than Portland when it comes to homelessness. A major reason in SF, as in other cities with large homeless populations, is the cost of housing. The Economist (current issue, US section) notes that in SF a family of 4 with a total income of $129.000 would spend 50% of that on a small apartment. Average rents now top $4,000 per month. Whew! Today's Washington Post reports that a woman who's lived in a predominantly black neighborhood for 40 years might be forced out because high-speed gentrification is raising rents and replacing buildings for those with higher incomes while forcing out those who cannot pay the higher prices. This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple resolution. Rich ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless..
Michael - I greatly appreciate your sincere concern about houseless folks and how the city or Portland, PSU and the community at large treats them. I've worked in IT most of my life. I've earned over a $100k working for big corps and then walked away in disgust over their insatiable greed only to go back after struggling trying to survive economically at smaller companies or NGOs. I've also experienced homelessness and housing insecurity in my times of big tech / capitalism rebellion. I've also served the homeless community w. Food Not Bombs and Sisters of the Road. Food Not Bombs helped w. the PSU Food Pantry for students struggling with meeting their nutritional needs. I even recently became a union carpenter in the hopes of helping to build tiny houses for homeless people. But I'm struggling with my own economic survival and the reality that there's not enough space to build 4.000+ tiny houses in PDX. As a PSU alumnus and someone who obviously cares about how PSU treats the homeless in our community, I encourage you to contact PSU and inquire about the "abuses of resources." I know from experience the chronically homeless have a litany of problems and needs that are being solved or met and that sometimes that does lead to some of them being abusive to other people or abusing public/private resources. In a way, homelessness is a very complicated problem but it also has a very simple solution, give anyone who doesn't want to live outside a place to live. They did it in Salt Lake City and reduced the homeless population by 75%. All it took was someone to provide the city with the data that it actually costs the city more in police, fire, hospital and other services than it does to just provide housing. -- Mike ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Rich Shepard dijo: >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple >resolution. +1 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019, mich...@robinson-west.com wrote: I hear that San Francisco isn't any better than Portland when it comes to homelessness. A major reason in SF, as in other cities with large homeless populations, is the cost of housing. The Economist (current issue, US section) notes that in SF a family of 4 with a total income of $129.000 would spend 50% of that on a small apartment. Average rents now top $4,000 per month. Whew! Today's Washington Post reports that a woman who's lived in a predominantly black neighborhood for 40 years might be forced out because high-speed gentrification is raising rents and replacing buildings for those with higher incomes while forcing out those who cannot pay the higher prices. This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple resolution. Rich ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
Quoting Brian Rohan : Where are you going to go, and when? On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 10:15 AM wrote: A society will be judged by how it treats the poor and homeless. I am saddened by the news that PSU is locking the doors of the engineering building because of "abuse" by homeless persons. Portland State University and the city of Portland must do more about homelessness or I am never coming back. -- Michael C. Robinson I currently live out of state but maintain my plug list subscription because I graduated from PSU with a CS degree in 2014. Unfortunately, the town I'm in now is practically dead for anyone who doesn't have experience in programming/IT. I'm working for very little and not doing computer science very much. If I could get my brother's pick and place QSP-2 running though, I could program circuits for him helping him fullfil a contract. I hear that San Francisco isn't any better than Portland when it comes to homelessness. Homeless are people first and foremost and deserving of respect as such despite their lack of an address to call home. -- Michael C. Robinson ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
Where are you going to go, and when? On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 10:15 AM wrote: > A society will be judged by how it treats the poor and homeless. I am > saddened by the news that PSU is locking the doors of the engineering > building because of "abuse" by homeless persons. Portland State > University and the city of Portland must do more about homelessness or > I am never coming back. > > -- Michael C. Robinson > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
