Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
Prince has also been cited by Chuck D. as a profound influence, while Dr. Dre has pointed to the Black Album as a major influence on NWA. If someone's already pointed this out, sorry, but I've been gone doing Mardi Gras stuff all weekend, and I didn't get any of Saturday or Sunday's messages. Anyway, for the record, Dr. Dre was in a pre-NWA group known as the World Class Wreckin' Cru, which began as a shameless Prince knock-off--lace and all. And, then, NWA's "look" was an open bite of Run-DMC--according to MC Ren, anyway. As for Chuck and PE, I like to think Coltrane's sheets-of-sound, late-50's/early 60's stuff was a precursor to the PE/Bomb Squad sound. But, maybe that's just me. Lance . . .
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)/Dr. Dre
One thing that Michael did was singlehandedly destroy Black Music. Phooey. NW
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
Will Miner wrote: It's been 16 years since Thriller and 15 since Purple Rain, 12 since Sign O The Times. None of them has been snip ... influential on the hip and new in a while. Even the Prince clones are old history. Um, Beatles clones were old history a lot longer ago but does that mean the Beatles are not (for better or worse) a lasting influence? I see Prince's influence quite plainly in much new RB, trip-hop etc. (Tricky and Massive Attack are obvious cases, and you see him cited by even more wildly un-Princelike bands in interviews all the time.) Als I suspect the real impact of TAFKAP will have to wait out the annoying pomposity of the glyph-o-maniac's public pronouncements (just as late-Miles's influence has resurged among jazzers and rockers alike, now that his personal tics are fading in time's amnesia). And tho, yeah, he seems to be in a less incandescent phase, every record he puts out has enough brilliant strokes for me to be far from counting him out yet. Unless he just gets crazier and crazier with the years, in a Howard Hughes rather than Brian Wilson sorta way. As for MJ - listen to the radio, man. From Hanson on up, the people who are makin' hits were born to the sound of Thriller. Carl W. A man after my own heart! Prince has also been cited by Chuck D. as a profound influence, while Dr. Dre has pointed to the Black Album as a major influence on NWA.
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
But anyone who thinks Michael Jackson is not one of the 100 most influential Black musicians of the twentieth century just isn't thinking very hard. If there's room for Ulysses Kay - and I like his music as well as the next person - then there's certainly room for Jackson; to leave him off the list would simply make it laughable. Well, of course, you're right, and I fully admit to not thinking about it. But, now that you've brought it up, I am thinking about it, and my hackles are raised. OK, fine, let's put Mike in the club. In fact, let's put him in the Top Ten. No, no: Top Three. After all, his influence alone, would, indeed justify it. The mass-market-shackled, lowest-common-denominating drivel that Jackson has ridden into Swiss Bank Accounts and the Beatles back catalog is so influential that modern RB still suffers by and for it. If disco put the pop in funk, Mike put the pop into disco--like that needed to happen--and almost single-handedly ruined black music. (Of course, programmers at "urban radio" have helped immensely, but that's another argument). Jackoff was so unbelievably successful at what he did, that anyone even remotely related to the increasingly oxymoronic RB field had to adjust to it. I've heard him compared to James Brown and the comparison is apt--if we're talking about basic cause-and-effect. Brother James made--and smoked--millions by laying down the funkiest, sweatiest, and most musically-dense grooves to ever move asses--and wallets. Mike, however, topped Brown by scraping any trace of "black" off his milquetoast, and not only did he sell exponentially more, but his presence forced record labels, producers, AR reps, and any other parasite in that part of the music industry to look for "their" Michael Jackson. RB? Hell, thanks to Mike, the R is much less confusing, and the B is barely non-existent. And that's why good old Jacko should be in the Top Three. For one guy to be able to ruin the amazing tradition of African-American music is an achievement as noteworthy as walking on the moon. Lance . . .
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
I'll stand on David Cantwell's coffeetable and say that Off The Wall and Thriller are two of the finest pop albums of the past 20 years.--don Must've been a slow 20 years g Lance . . .
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
At 09:04 AM 2/11/99 -0800, Donald wrote: I like Mike just fine -- particularly from "I Want You Back" through Thriller, which is a mighty long stretch of time. The bubblegum soul of the J5 always puts a smile on my face, and jesus, that kid could sing. Furthermore, I'll stand on David Cantwell's coffeetable and say that Off The Wall and Thriller are two of the finest pop albums of the past 20 years.--don You should be up on Lance's coffee talbe, Don, not mine. Over here at our place, Off the Wall and Thriller are obvious classics, just marvelous pop-dance records that every serious record collection should include, filed right next to (at the very least) a J5 greatest hits set. --david cantwell
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
I like Mike just fine -- particularly from "I Want You Back" through Thriller, which is a mighty long stretch of time. The bubblegum soul of the J5 always puts a smile on my face, and jesus, that kid could sing. Furthermore, I'll stand on David Cantwell's coffeetable and say that Off The Wall and Thriller are two of the finest pop albums of the past 20 years.--don What he said. Between the J5, Off the Wall and Thriller, he's a force to be reckoned with, regardless of the freak he's become. And let's not forget, you've got to figure he'd owed a fair amount of the credit for forcing MTV to break its color barrier. That's gotta count for something as well. Neal Weiss
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
Jesus, I find myself agreeing with Don. I realize that Mike has not been the most lovable of characters and probably has some major personality defects but he could definitely put out enjoyable well crafted pop/rock soul at least until the HIStory fiasco. Yes, he sold lots but sometimes that happens to good stuff. I would rank him as one of the three most influentail black artists of the last 20 years. The others would be Stevie Wonder who just plain never ceases to amaze me. The third one would be his royal pain in the ass over- egoed TAFKAP (the artist formerly known as Prince). And for the most part I don't like his stuff but he too has done some brilliant stuff even if I try not to like him or it. And Sign of the Times ends up being in my top 100 albums of rock as does Thriller. Iceman Don Yates wrote: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, lance davis wrote: But, now that you've brought it up, I am thinking about it, and my hackles are raised. OK, fine, let's put Mike in the club. In fact, let's put him in the Top Ten. No, no: Top Three. After all, his influence alone, would, indeed justify it. Well, that *was* what the list was about, right?g The mass-market-shackled, lowest-common-denominating drivel that Jackson has ridden into Swiss Bank Accounts and the Beatles back catalog is so influential that modern RB still suffers by and for it. If disco put the pop in funk, Mike put the pop into disco--like that needed to happen--and almost single-handedly ruined black music. I like Mike just fine -- particularly from "I Want You Back" through Thriller, which is a mighty long stretch of time. The bubblegum soul of the J5 always puts a smile on my face, and jesus, that kid could sing. Furthermore, I'll stand on David Cantwell's coffeetable and say that Off The Wall and Thriller are two of the finest pop albums of the past 20 years.--don
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
At 11:40 AM 2/11/99 -0800, the Iceman wrote of MiJack and others: I would rank him as one of the three most influentail black artists of the last 20 years. The others would be Stevie Wonder who just plain never ceases to amaze me. The third one would be his royal pain in the ass over- egoed TAFKAP (the artist formerly known as Prince). No argument on Prince and MiJack, but Stevie's great period would be well over 20 years ago wouldn't it? I mean, from Fingertips to Talking Book and Innervisions through Songs in the Key Of Life only takes us up to, like, 1976. He's had moments in the last 20 years (Hotter Than July comes to mind) but it's definatly not his A stuff. Could we agree on this: one of the most influential, and best, artists of the entire rock and soul era? for the entire century? But not the last 20 years. --david cantwell
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
OK, I guess I'm riding solo on this one.
I will admit that I was an MJ fan (no the other MJ) going back to the
cartoons, and then Off the Wall, and finally Thriller--so much so that there
are still ruts in the floor at my childhood home from where I would try to
"dance like Mike." (No, really, that's what happened). Anyway, recently a
friend of mine had both OTW and Thriller in his collection ("Don't ask," he
admonished), and for old-times sake, I listened to them. I'm sorry, but they
haven't held up very well. If you like them, fine. If you wanna rock the
night away, be my guest. Go ahead and jump on the coffee tables in your
sequined flats and tell me to beat it. But, aside from acknowledging the
"man's" influence--which I feel is pernicious to no end, but nevertheless,
undeniably powerful--his brand of RB is nothing more to me than James Brown
twice-removed (note: I'm not including the J5ive in this assertion). I don't
find it interesting enough to even shut up and dance to. Was the guy a great
musician? I guess, but, like Elvis post-Army, I feel he should be considered
more of an "entertainer," than a proper musician.
Nope, nope, don't like it. Not one bit. And that's my final yap on the
subject.
Lance . . .
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
No one had ever come even close to selling 36 MILLION records before Mickael Jackson, and he was the first truly GLOBAL superstar. Nowdays we see cases of worldwide celebrity more often, but before Michael Jackson no one had been a huge star in japan and europe and the us and everywhere else ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Considering the supremely weird childhood the guy had, its not much wonder he ended up hanging out with chimps and emmanuel lewis and putting llamas in his backyard. Off The Wall is his Guernica. Prince yes. Stevie Wonder yes. Marvin Gaye yes. George Clinton yes. Michael Jackson yes. Dr. Dre yes. jns posting like mad with her new iMac...yay! -- From: "\"Doug Young aka \\\"The Iceman\\\"\"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike) Date: Thu, Feb 11, 1999, 1:40 PM Jesus, I find myself agreeing with Don. I realize that Mike has not been the most lovable of characters and probably has some major personality defects but he could definitely put out enjoyable well crafted pop/rock soul at least until the HIStory fiasco. Yes, he sold lots but sometimes that happens to good stuff. I would rank him as one of the three most influentail black artists of the last 20 years. The others would be Stevie Wonder who just plain never ceases to amaze me. The third one would be his royal pain in the ass over- egoed TAFKAP (the artist formerly known as Prince). And for the most part I don't like his stuff but he too has done some brilliant stuff even if I try not to like him or it. And Sign of the Times ends up being in my top 100 albums of rock as does Thriller. Iceman Don Yates wrote: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, lance davis wrote: But, now that you've brought it up, I am thinking about it, and my hackles are raised. OK, fine, let's put Mike in the club. In fact, let's put him in the Top Ten. No, no: Top Three. After all, his influence alone, would, indeed justify it. Well, that *was* what the list was about, right?g The mass-market-shackled, lowest-common-denominating drivel that Jackson has ridden into Swiss Bank Accounts and the Beatles back catalog is so influential that modern RB still suffers by and for it. If disco put the pop in funk, Mike put the pop into disco--like that needed to happen--and almost single-handedly ruined black music. I like Mike just fine -- particularly from "I Want You Back" through Thriller, which is a mighty long stretch of time. The bubblegum soul of the J5 always puts a smile on my face, and jesus, that kid could sing. Furthermore, I'll stand on David Cantwell's coffeetable and say that Off The Wall and Thriller are two of the finest pop albums of the past 20 years.--don
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
Jennifer Sperandeo wrote: Off The Wall is his Guernica. "Pablo Picasso / was never called an asshole" -- Jonathan Richman TWM _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)
no - "I Want You Back" is "Woman with Fish Hat" Thriller is "Demoiselles..." -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Iain Noble) To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike) Date: Thu, Feb 11, 1999, 9:50 PM Jennifer Sperandeo wrote: Off The Wall is his Guernica. Then, I suppose, 'I want you back' is his 'Demoiselles d'Avignon'? But I'm a Cezanne man myself. -- Iain Noble Hound Dog Research, Survey and Social Research Consultancy, 28A Collegiate Crescent Sheffield S10 2BA UK Phone/fax: (+44) (0)114 267 1394 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: Be Like Mike (no, the other Mike)/Dr. Dre
My brother was a big Jacksons fan while I was into Willie Nelson. IMHO, Thriller sucked. Billy Jean Sucked. Ever since Michael and Latoya cut Tito up to use for parts in their never ending search for cosmetic renewal, the Jacksons have sucked. Tito was the only thing that held the Jackson 5 together. One thing that Michael did was singlehandedly destroy Black Music. He reached in and ripped the soul right out. In fact, to listen to the radio today, you would think that the Funk has done boarded the Mothership and took off for parts unknown. But worry not lil chilluns. They still got the funk down in Lafayette and everywhere else south of I-10. Buckwheat got the Funk, C.J. got the Funk, and the Dirty Dozen Brass Band got that double line funk. But Funk north of I-10 is now illegal. It's all Michaels fault. Ever noticed that a fifth of Nyquil will flat fuck your ass up? Jeff Wall http://www.twangzine.com The Webs least sucky music magazine 3421 Daisy Crescent - Va Beach, Va - 23456
