Re: Crosby/Jolsen Cash/Dylan in Kansas City (was: Single MostInfluential)
Since these sorts of lists generally just give me a headache...the result of promiscuous musical attachmenets I guess...I've avoided comment on mopst of the interesting discussion. (No headache detected.) But a few late throw-in points: I think David C. is dead on in answering Tera's question about Jolsen. There was a REAL generational cut-off there; because Jolsen was absolutely worshipped by my grandparents' WWI East Coast kids' /flapper generation...(moreso in their case , I suspect, since they were Hebraic, and he was one of those rare sexy Jewish heroes--like Hank Greenburg later)... And that notion of sexiness really doesn't transcend time, does it! (Not unusual in the history of lust.)... But the stagey and overdone aspect David hit on is part of this--Jolsen's always "selling" the song..and that's a direct result of his history in turn of the century live town-by-town, one-shot only vaudeville and even minstelry..It was meant to be large, it was mant to be hot, it was meant to be seen live--it was FOR the stage, just once-- and he wasn't gonna let any new-fangle microphone (or talkie movie!) stand in the way of his style. Jerry Lee Lewis ALWAYS claims Jolsen as a predecessor, like Jimmie Rodgers, as a singing "stylist"...So here's the irony: It was exactly Jolsen's exhuberant overkill extroversion the 1918 generation found sexy--and the place where that would re-emerge for white folks e (then, as in Jolsen's time, as a crossing of the line into what was seen as a more black-like sexual openness) was in in rockabillies like Jerry Lee and Elvis! Bing Crosby's absolutely important and endlessly influential style went the opposite way--to the restraint and introverted personalness of up to the mike singing--which also led to his famous "laid back" standing in a golf sweater style of physical performance...From John McCormack stagey Irish tenor style to Bing American --now THERE's a birth of the "cool"!...Which is forever with usand is both influenced by and ON other trends in black vocals. In a way, Elvis had the ability, like s other full-range singers (see Sinatra, Brother Ray, etc.) , to marry and even play off the cool and hot things, the holding in and letting go... like the Spanish dance influence on the Texas 2-step. The restraint's the sexy point there. But in rock and roll the simmering volcano eventually must erupt! Meanwhile, "briefly", I've loved the music of Johnny Cash for over 30 years and will stanbd second to no one as an admirer of his...his influence on our little world of outlaw/alt.country is huge, on country at large, large but not endless, and on rock and roll minor at most. Bob Dylan has to make the top ten (but not above Bing or Armstrong or Elvis or T-Bone Walker (good call Joe) for the very notion of delivering POP music intended to have impact on the head as well as the heart and nether parts...in the course of doing that, he delivered the notion of presenting an ALBUM's worth of significant cuts, paving the way for the death of the single sensibility I was saluting here last week. This is of lasting impact. PS: You can't find your way to either Charlie Parker or Elvis Presley without going through those Kansas City territory bands...you wind up there looking for the birth of RB, which would be a key moment in 20th century American music history. You can say it's Louis Jordan's Tympany Five...but it's in some place in the Benny Moten/Count Basie world, where onee bunch of guys run off to form seriously cretaive, even classical and intellectual be bop/progressive jazz (after playing RB, usually!) and another set go off to build raucus RB dumb repeitive sax honking dance music god bless it... But who do you nominate? Count Basie? Big Joe Turner? (Find me a better rock and roll or shouting blues singer!).. Or do we ignore these St. Louis and Kansas City types and turn to Illinois Jacquet and Lionel Hampton in NYC?) I told you I wouldn't have much to say about this stuff. Now I have a headache. Barry M.
Dylan Centric Universe
Bob Dylan's more influential than Bing Crosby? Than Frank Sinatra? Than Louis Armstrong? Than Hank Williams? Than Jimmie Rodgers? Than Elvis Presley? You could probably play six degrees of Dylan w/just about any major artist. -John ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
New album proves Dylan is in Jewish phase (and country)(fwd)
Got this from the Dylan newsgroup and thought it funny in a way that postcard2 folks may find funny too... keep dancing, -ldk -- Forwarded message -- Advanced word from Sony Records proves Dylan is not only reasserting his Jewish heirtage but is also reclaiming the traditions handed down by one of his favorite singer/songwriters Hank Williams Sr. His soon-to-be released country-flavored album, appropriately titled "Gotta Shalom Somebody," contains the following tracks: 1. "I Was One of the Chosen People (Til She Chose Somebody Else)" 2. "Honky Tonk Nights on the Golan Heights" 3. "I've Got My Foot on the Glass, Where Are You?" 4. "My Rowdy Friend Elijah's Coming Over Tonight" 5. "New Bottle of Whiskey, Same Old Testament" 6. "Stand by Your Mensch" 7. "Eighteen Wheels and a Dozen Latkes" 8. "I Balanced Your Books, but You're Breakin' My Heart" 9. "My Darlin's a Schmendrick and I'm All Verklempt" 10. "That Shiksa Done Made off With My Heart Like a Goniff" 11. "The Second Time She Said 'Shalom,' I Knew It Meant Goodbye" 12. "You're the Lox My Bagel's Been Missin" 13. "You've Been Talkin' Hebrew in Your Sleep Since that Rabbi Came to Town" 14. "Mamas Don't Let Your Ungrateful Sons Grow Up to Be Cowboys (When They Could Very Easily Have Just Taken Over the Family Hardware Business that My Own Grandfather Broke His Back to Start and My Father Built Up Over Years of Effort Which Apparently Doesn't Mean Anything Now That You're Turning Your Back on Such a Gift)"
Re: New album proves Dylan is in Jewish phase (and country)(fwd)
Joonyah wrote: This is hilarious, thanks for fowarding And just in time for Passover! Oi vay, hoss, Dunno if it's still there, but I once looked up Dylan sites in Yahoo and found one called "Tangled Up In Jews." It examples Jewish references in Dylan songs or some such. Dave np: Chris Whitley - Dirt Floor *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Mavis Staples/Bob Dylan
I think I just probably came off the best two nights of back-to-back music in my entire life: Friday - I made the last minute decision to drive two hours from St. Louis to see Bob Dylan at SIU-Carbondale. The Brian Setzer Orchestra opened up and were very entertaining. The predominantly college crowd of approximately 7,000-8,000 people were obviously there to see Dylan however. I've seen Dylan probably around 15 times dating back to 1977. In that time I've seen some awful shows. This show is the best I've ever heard Dylan. His voice sounded the best I've heard in a long, long time and he and his band were playing like they were flat-out inspired. It was interesting to see the majority of college kids going nuts, the older fans who have kept in touch with Dylan's music over the years enjoying the new songs, and the minority of older people there to see Dylan play his old songs completely at a loss to why he performs a number of his songs so differently than the recorded versions. He played five songs from "Time Out Of Mind", covers including "Rank Strangers" and "Not Fade Away", and a few songs I've never heard him perform live before such as "My Back Pages." It's fascinating to me how much he reinvents his music and keeps it relevant today (Rolling Stones take note). I believe it was Dan Bentele who questioned the relevance of "The Time's They Are A Changing" a few days back. Dylan skipped that song on Friday but played "Blowing In The Wind" instead. This should have sounded like an old tired warhorse but it was done completely different and was truly an amazing thing to behold. In a time where NYPD officers find it necessary to fire over 40 shots at an unarmed man and we're involved in skirmishes left and right, the lyrics to "Blowing In The Wind" sounded VERY relevant. Seriously, if you have a chance to see Dylan and have been a fan of him in the past, do yourself a favor and go hear him. One of the most inspiring shows I've r seen. At least until Saturday. Saturday - Mavis Staples was doing a special benefit concert in St. Louis for the Black Alumni Association at Washington University. This concert was held at the Sheldon which is the most acoustically perfect hall in St. Louis and seats perhaps 600 people. She was there to pay tribute to the music of Mahalia Jackson. Words can not express how powerful this show was. It was just Mavis Staples and a keyboard player (primarily organ) whose first name was Tony who she said has won a couple of grammys. I don't know his last name but the guy was so ridiculously good that it was a joke (BTW it's not the person playing keyboards on her CD). I'm a white guy who grew up Presbyterian in conservative Orange County. I've never been to a Southern Baptist church before. I can only imagine that this is what it is like but to the nth degree. I've seen the Staples play and steal the show at the Long Beach Blues Festival some time back but this was altogether different. To hear the crowd yelling out exaltations while Mavis Staples was singing in a what can only be described as divinely-inspired voice while backed by a man who played keyboards that sounded like Booker T.and singing wonderful harmonies is as good as it gets. I will never be more moved. God Almighty, this is the most amazing thing I've ever heard. What a gorgeous voice with the richest lows you'll ever hear that Mavis Staples has been blessed with. Her stories about growing up and being mentored and befriended by Mahalia Jackson were poignant and beautiful. Once she started singing these songs made famous by Mahalia Jackson and let go, it was impossible not to be totally swept away. I'm questioning why I'm trying to explain this when I can't possibly describe in words how good this show was. All I can say is I'll never hear or see anything better than that. -John http://www.musicfolk.com/swoop
Re: Mavis Staples/Bob Dylan
The Staples family, what a legacy. I was going to write some lame-ass whinings about Xtravaganza, meeting nice people (cudos Maria/Rebecca/Mechel) but your post helped to keep all that in perspective. Thanks for the rare heartfelt "review." Jon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm questioning why I'm trying to explain this when I can't possibly describe in words how good this show was. All I can say is I'll never hear or see anything better than that. -John http://www.musicfolk.com/swoop
Re: Dylan
At 10:19 AM + 12/2/99, Girvan Burnside wrote: Ross Whitwam said: I want to vote for the "Live At Budokan" album as Dylan's worst live album. No I didn't. I too like the _At Budokan_ album. Someone else said that. Ross Whitwam[EMAIL PROTECTED] Molecular Pharmacology Therapeutics Program Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, NYC
Re: Dylan
sorry, bad editing of all the previous messages. Girvan Ross Whitwam wrote: At 10:19 AM + 12/2/99, Girvan Burnside wrote: Ross Whitwam said: I want to vote for the "Live At Budokan" album as Dylan's worst live album. No I didn't. I too like the _At Budokan_ album. Someone else said that. Ross Whitwam[EMAIL PROTECTED] Molecular Pharmacology Therapeutics Program Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, NYC
Re: Dylan
So I meant to ask about this a few days ago after Lance's and others' raves about Dylan. Can he really still sing? Will Will, I don't know how to convey how skeptical I was before I saw him. Your very question, in fact, was pre-eminently on my mind. I was expecting to be respectfully bored for the duration of the show, like I was for the Stones. But, lemme say that my earlier praise was--by no means whatsoever--qualified. He sounded fantastic. He did not hit the notes in the manner in which they were recorded, mind you. But, he adjusted the song around the capabilities of his voice--which was surprisingly strong AND capable--and, in addition to sounding fantastic, augmented his re-interpretation with great arrangements. I'm not sure if he's been given enough credit for being a bandleader, but how he framed his voice was remarkable. It wasn't just a Bob thing. His band is smoking. Standup bass, country picking, pedal steel, and mandolin are all well-represented. Like I said, if he can take an old warhorse like "The Times They Are A-Changin,'" and make it sound new . . . well, you do the math. I guess what I'd have to say about the guy is this: He ain't getting any younger and he ain't getting any better. He may not be "Dylan '66," but that ain't very fair. He put on a helluva show, and great entertainment should be its own reward. Besides, he set the bar so damn high, and reinvented the wheel so many times, I think we expect from him the unrealistic. I know I did. The guy's the bomb. Don't miss him. You will NOT regret it. Lance . . .
Re: Dylan
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, lance davis wrote: Like I said, if he can take an old warhorse like "The Times They Are A-Changin,'" and make it sound new . . . well, you do the math. One thing worth mentioning -- Dylan's been radically reinterpreting his songs in concert for years. Check out the '74 live album Before The Flood for some *very* different versions of some familiar Dylan "warhorses."--don
Re: Dylan
At 11:54 AM -0800 10/2/99, Don Yates wrote: One thing worth mentioning -- Dylan's been radically reinterpreting his songs in concert for years. Check out the '74 live album Before The Flood for some *very* different versions of some familiar Dylan "warhorses." Indeed, or *any* of Dylan's live albums. He's been reinterpreting and rearranging his material pretty consistently since about 1965. (Prior to that, in his all-acoustic all-the-time phase, he pretty much sung his songs live as he had recorded them in the studio, and vice versa.) For what it's worth, in my estimation Dylan's best live album is _Live 1966_ and _Before The Flood_ is his worst, but that's not say I think any of Dylan's albums is worthless. Hell, I even enjoy Columbia's 1973 "revenge" album. What I have noticed is that many people, even devout Dylan fans, are disappointed when they hear Dylan live for the first time. (Lance appears to be an exception to this; back in the day, I wasn't.) Dylan does not perform his songs as he records them: the arrangements are different, the moods are different, and Dylan's vocals are quite different. To me, the very quality of his voice, the timbre, the pitch, what have you, sound differnt live vs. in the studio. If you get too attached to the recorded performances of his songs (quite easy to do), it can be quite jarring at first. I personally think that, once you get used to the new approaches, however, his best recent live performances prove to be stunning in their emotionality and vocal dexerity. If anyone were wondering if the current live Dylan is going to be their cup of tea, I would recommend listening to his _Unplugged_ album (his second best live album, in my personal rankings), which does give a good impression of his current live vocal stylings. It is also the only album he has ever released which features his current touring band (well, the 1994 version anyway -- there's been changes since, but the overall band sound has been pretty consistent.) Ross Whitwam[EMAIL PROTECTED] Molecular Pharmacology Therapeutics Program Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, NYC
Re: Dylan
One thing worth mentioning -- Dylan's been radically reinterpreting his songs in concert for years. Check out the '74 live album Before The Flood for some *very* different versions of some familiar Dylan "warhorses."--don Yes, true enough, true enough, indeed. However, since my reply was specifically in reference to a Dylan fan wary of wasting $30 in the near future, I thought I'd concentrate on the current state of Dylan interpretation. Besides, it could be argued that Bob's croaky destruction of "Masters of War" a few years back on the Grammies was also a reinterpretation--it just sucked. The same goes for that listless, unforgivable Letterman appearance, and the list goes on and on. Disappointments have abounded. Now though--and for whatever personal reasons--his powers of (self)-redefintion seem to have been rejuvenated, and it would seem a shame to pass up this golden opportunity. And, for what it's worth, I think Bob's show now is much better than that recorded for Before the Flood. I understand that that was the last show for that Band/Bob tour, and I would probably have a different opinion had a SEEN the show, but nevertheless, there's only a few moments on that record that really jump out at me. Lance . . .
Re: Dylan
lance davis wrote: The same goes for that listless, unforgivable Letterman appearance, and the list goes on and on. Disappointments have abounded. Hey, just hang on a doggone minute there. Are we talking Dylan on Letterman in 1984? Dont Start Me Talkin, Jokerman and License to Kill? One of THE great Dylan performances ever (... and I have the live tape collection to prove it) ? Surely not. I have listened to hundreds of hours of Dylan, and that Letterman show is about as stoked as he EVER sounded... Oh well, different strokes n all that Stevie
Re: Dylan
What I have noticed is that many people, even devout Dylan fans, are disappointed when they hear Dylan live for the first time. My first time was Wembley Arena 1987, backed by Petty and the Heartbreakers. It wasn't bad (the Heartbreakers could make anyone sound good, really), but not great. Petty's set which preceded Dylan's blew the old croaker clean out of the water, from the opening "Keep Your Hands to Yourself" to the bring-the-house-down take on "American Girl". And if that wasnt good enough, Petty and McGuinn did a mini byrds set before that, with all the old classics in there. Quite a night... Stevie
Re: Dylan
For my money the best Dylan live record is HARD RAIN. Every version on that puts a smile on my face. I'm not sure they rehearsed at all. It sounds like they are following an insane yelling Bob's whims on the frequent breaks. "Oh Sister", "Maggie's Farm", "Lay, Lady, Lay", etc. have never been better. --Matt Cook "Lay lady lay...LAY ACROSS MY BIG BRASS BED!"--Bob
Re: Dylan
At 9:13 PM + 10/2/99, Stevie Simkin wrote: lance davis wrote: The same goes for that listless, unforgivable Letterman appearance, and the list goes on and on. Disappointments have abounded. Hey, just hang on a doggone minute there. Are we talking Dylan on Letterman in 1984? Dont Start Me Talkin, Jokerman and License to Kill? One of THE great Dylan performances ever (... and I have the live tape collection to prove it) ? Surely not. I'm with Stevie on this one. Great great effort from BD that night. I suspect Lance might have been referring to a later Letterman appearance -- I think it was a prime time special celebrating Letterman's 15th anniversary on the air, or something like that -- when BD performed a somewhat lackluster "Like A Rolling Stone" with Rosanne Cash + two others on (superfluous, it seemed to me) backing vocals. Ross Whitwam[EMAIL PROTECTED] Molecular Pharmacology Therapeutics Program Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, NYC
Re: Dylan
lance davis wrote: The same goes for that listless, unforgivable Letterman appearance, and the list goes on and on. Disappointments have abounded. Stevie replied: Hey, just hang on a doggone minute there. Are we talking Dylan on Letterman in 1984? Dont Start Me Talkin, Jokerman and License to Kill? One of THE great Dylan performances ever (... and I have the live tape collection to prove it) ? Surely not. To which I re-reply: My bad for not specifying. I was referring to the Letterman gig which, I believe, was Dave's 10th Anniversary Special (1991/92?). Bob stumbled and bumbled through something that sounded vaguely like, "Like a Rolling Stone." Anyway, now that you've let the cat outta the bag, how can a humbled Dylan spouter get a copy of those '84 songs?? Offlist reply perhaps?? Lance [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dylan (long)
If you are someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about Bob Dylan go ahead and delete this. If, on the other hand, you happen to have a few--or a lot--of the old man's recordings in your collection, check it out. I went to see Bob last night in Birmingham, and though I was expectant, I have to admit I was very skeptical. I mean, I first became a fan of the guy about twelve years ago, but this is my first time seeing him in person. With the stories I'd heard and the TV appearances I'd seen, I wasn't exactly filled with confidence on coughing up my dough, you know. But his last few records have been understated gems and recent reports have all been positive, so I figured, what the hell. Well, after last night I am converted anew. His voice was in fine form, but it wasn't just about hitting notes, bub--but, I gotta say, he did do that. No, it was about phrasing and how a real performer can remake the familiar. It was during "The Times They Are A-Changin," in fact, when I realized that he was making absolutely fresh what I had thought I never wanted to hear again. How many times had I heard that song on the radio and turned the channel in familiar boredom?? Well, he did it and did it wonderfully. And "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" was the same. Man!! He would turn corners around words that I didn't know were there and sneak up on me, turning old chestnuts, including his Jimmie Rodgers cover, into something . . . relevant. And that was what impressed me about the old guy. He was relevant again, and I found that to be mesmerizing. Bob Dylan could coast on the ducats of nostalgia--Lord knows he has been accused of that by some folks--but here he was with a stand-up bass player, mandolin/pedal steel player, and a great country picker ripping into "Honky Tonk Blues." This is Hank Williams country, by the way, but last night Bob made that brilliant song his very own. There he was on-stage, smiling, knowing that we were helplessly in his spell, and we--and him, I'd like to think--loved every goddamed second of it. And when he did "Not Fade Away," he was not only paying homage to Buddy, of course--and the increasingly irrelevant Stones--but it was the Garcia/Dead arrangement, so all of us, not just the numerous hippies in the crowd, were spinning in circles. And then he was gone, leaving me, and us, wanting more. "Not fade away." A brilliant choice to end the show with. It was as though he was letting all of us know that not even death is gonna kick his ass. He's going to make damn well sure he sticks around for awhile, and we just better get used to it. But, folks, he isn't. He will fade away. Last year's death scare seems to have lit a fire under his ass, and guess what? We get to benefit. But Bob ain't getting any younger. And, given the guy's eccentric career, there is no telling when he may become filled with rock 'n' roll ennui and start mailin 'em in again. So, for those of you who count yourselves among his fans, do yourselves a favor. Go see him. He is truly at the top of his game and who knows how long it will last. Last night was one of the most impressive nights of music I've ever experienced (Setzer was a ball, I should add), and I wanted it to keep on going. But, it won't. Someday there won't be anymore Bob shows, just like there ain't anymore Monroe shows and Townes' shows. Don't miss him. Lance . . .
Re: I called Dylan Judas and created rock 'n' roll history
I called Dylan Judas and created rock 'n' roll history * 02/02/99 Birmingham Post Mirror Regional Newspapers (Copyright 1999) A former Midland student has been revealed as the heckler who experts believe changed the course of pop history when he cried "Judas!" during a Bob Dylan concert. Yeah, right. And I was the guy who yells "Whippin' Post!" in the Allman Brothers Band At Fillmore East. . .
Re: I called Dylan Judas and created rock 'n' roll history
In a message dated 2/6/99 12:47:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A former Midland student has been revealed as the heckler who experts believe changed the course of pop history when he cried "Judas!" during a Bob Dylan concert. Yeah, right. And I was the guy who yells "Whippin' Post!" in the Allman Brothers Band At Fillmore East. . . And I'm the guy who yells "Freebird" at EVERY concert. It's Pavlovian, honest. Slim
Re: I called Dylan Judas and created rock 'n' roll history
At least there are several witnesses to the fact that it was Alex Millar who yelled "No Tupelo" at a Jeff Tweedy solo show at Lounge Ax, prompting the first performance of "That Year" anyone could remember since, um, Wilco formed. I mention this only to bring you up to speed a bit with Postcard, where such milestones already have been internalized. Linda, hoping she got it right. Anyway, it WAS Millar.
Re: I called Dylan Judas and created rock 'n' roll history
A former Midland student has been revealed as the heckler who experts believe changed the course of pop history when he cried "Judas!" during a Bob Dylan concert. Yeah, right. And I was the guy who yells "Whippin' Post!" in the Allman Brothers Band At Fillmore East. . . And I'm the guy who yells "Freebird" at EVERY concert. It's Pavlovian, honest. Slim Man, and I thought I ran into Beatle Bob at a lot of shows-- Slim's got him beat by a mile! g Larry
