Re: Anyone at home?
Unsubscibe Am 20.03.2010 um 21:24 schrieb MB: Tobias Jung said: Welcome to the 21st century! Or the information age or whatever. Sorry I tried to help. Won't happen again. If you're claiming I'm mistaken in my basic assumptions how POP should work - based on 26 years of POP mail, then I would welcome your conclusions if you support the data to make them viable. You didn't. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB ff-musikbüro Florian Fürst Zum Bühl 8 D-79875 Dachsberg T. +49-7755-91012 M. +49-179-9230923 F. +49-1805-48200-13710 eMail ffmu...@ffmusik.de www.ffmusik.de
Re: Anyone at home?
T.L. Miller said: The only difference with my set-up, which works fine, is only my user name is in ID -- not my e-mail address. Good catch, but didn't make a difference. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB
Re: Anyone at home?
Powermail sa såhär: probably his problem is the amount of mail ... 4000+ that's a lot and who can read so much? I get maybe some 300 to 400 mails per day and don't read them all. Yes, surely that must be the problem. :P This account, though have 7000+ messages and does sync up more or less in real time. I have left tens of thousands on email servers accessed with POP since 1994 and PowerMail is the only client that ever gave me this specific problem on *some* accounts, not all. Which doesn't mean PM is to blame, but it's involved at least. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB
Re: Anyone at home?
Tobias Jung said: You've got thousands of messages on a POP server? Welcome to the 21st century! Or the information age or whatever.
Re: Anyone at home?
Tim lapin said: It even seems to have my sent messages as well sent from my POP instance at home. Nice feature. :-) Indeed.
Re: Anyone at home?
MB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote (Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:02:45 +0100): Tobias Jung said: You've got thousands of messages on a POP server? Welcome to the 21st century! Or the information age or whatever. Sorry I tried to help. Won't happen again.
Re: Anyone at home?
Tobias Jung said: Welcome to the 21st century! Or the information age or whatever. Sorry I tried to help. Won't happen again. If you're claiming I'm mistaken in my basic assumptions how POP should work - based on 26 years of POP mail, then I would welcome your conclusions if you support the data to make them viable. You didn't. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB
Re: Anyone at home? Yep.
Bill Schjelderup said: that's my 2 cents worth. It was a thoughtful response at any rate. Thanks. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB
Re: Anyone at home?
MB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote (Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:24:27 +0100): Welcome to the 21st century! Or the information age or whatever. Sorry I tried to help. Won't happen again. If you're claiming I'm mistaken in my basic assumptions how POP should work - based on 26 years of POP mail, then I would welcome your conclusions if you support the data to make them viable. You didn't. I didn't claim anything at all nor did I provide any conclusions. I merely tried to guess why you experience problems no one else seems to have. In fact, I even pointed out that I'm not saying that an email client doesn't need to be able to handle such an amount of messages And your response is to mock me. So, you can be happy now: I won't bother you again. TJ
Re: Anyone at home?
Tobias Jung said: I didn't claim anything at all nor did I provide any conclusions. Your conclusion was - and is as I understand it - that thousands of messages can only cause problems with POP. Something you have argued in the past in other threads, displaying also then your lack of understanding that others may have other needs, expectations and experiences different from yourself. To simply say that hey, is that really a problem?, which you efecctively have, and not offer any thoughts on how to solve the problem or at least thought give a perspective is not helping, that is being unhelpful by definition. Unless (!), you actually do know something about why whatever you say isn't a problem or why it's a problem that can only be expected within the parameters of the technology used. Which doesn't seem to be the case. And your response is to mock me. There is no mock. I merely tried to point out that to have thousands of messages left at the server is the norm these days. People want their email with POP, IMAP, iPhone or whatever they have got. To delete them means not being able to get to it from the other platforms. So, you can be happy now: I won't bother you again. You keep repeating that. What is it that you really want to say? MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB
Re: Anyone at home?
I said this earlier (to CTM): First of all, thanks for responding and rendering my response to Matthias pointless. :-) I meant the response to Matthias I *didn't* send, not the shortened post I actually did send as a response to Matthias. I should have been more clear on that.
Re: Anyone at home?
Am 19.03.10 00:08, schrieb MB: Matthias wrote: this implies that your problem is of different nature. What imples what? I understood that you had this issue also with other mail clients. Maybe I misinterpreted you, sorry for that. My guess would be a corrupt database on the server (which can be big fun). I never had such problems with PM, neither any of my family members who still use PM. This is highly unlikely given this has been a problem: - for me since version 4 at least of PowerMail - on 6+ different mail accounts on different domains and servers, with different email server applications and different versions of those. servers - of which one was my very own mail server - for an extended length of time. Were talking *years* here. - on 4-5 different Macs surviving reinstalls of the OS, the PowerMail application, new clean PowerMail databases. - this problem doesn't occur if I use another application in parallell, it occurs in PowerMail only. ok, the last thing was the point I misunderstood. The problem here is that others didn't report any problems like that. I've also never seen something like that and I was using PM intensively with some 10 accounts for years and my wife and parents are still using PM without any problems. So you say that your PM database gets out of sync with the downloaded mails. Does this mean PM doesn't recognize the status of a mail as being read? - I've seen this issue with a recovered database, as the recovering process was not recovering the status of the mail, so all mails from the server were marked as unread and PM was retrieving them again. This is clearly a server issue and happens only with postboxes which were repaired on the server or does this mean PM doesn't recognize the status of a mail as being unread and not retrieving it? - I've never seen this. Could you be a bit more clear about what happens? Can you also post the settings done under Account - Receiving. There are different possibilities, like leaving copies of retrieved mail on the server. You said you've seen that on different boxes of yours, also with a brand new database. So I guess we can exclude a hardware problem on the client side (corrupt RAM or HD). If you have SSH access to the server you could check it also from the terminal. At the moment IMAP and web mail replaces PowerMail doing it properly for me. As the problem is mainly affecting my main email account which prevents me from being up to date within PowerMail I'm nearing changing that hoping the problem will go away - though this approach hasn't helped me in the past - or switching email app, or both possibly. But still, I'd rather not. After all, this kind of problem should be solveable. the problem won't go away by itself magically. I assume there is either a problem with your special settings or somewhere else. You need to find the source of problem, else it can't be solved. cheers Matthias
Re: Anyone at home?
Powermail said: The problem here is that others didn't report any problems like that. This means only that the problem isn't widespread. Nevertheless it affects the heart of PowerMail. I'm far beyond believing that this can only be affecting my accounts and my Macs. What it could be is something related to the history of my DB (current and earlier versions), but in the end that actually shouldn't affect the function of getting messages. Whatever the history, PM should be able to query the mail server about new messages and get them all. No? or does this mean PM doesn't recognize the status of a mail as being unread and not retrieving it? - I've never seen this. Could you be a bit more clear about what happens? It's an intermittant problem it seems, but when it's active it stays. This is the problem in a nutshell with my current account that displays this problem: At the outset of using Gmail in PowerMail on 2 different accounts I attempted to download every message for both accounts, which PowerMail and the server wisely choose to do in chunks of a few hundred messages**. I left them all on the server I think, but I'm not sure actually. After many rechecks all messages actually were downloaded on one account at least. The other problem-affected account stil haven't got all messages even as I set it to redownload every message (currently 4000+) at one point. Over time PowerMail continues not to download all messages that actually are on the server on one gmail account, while downloading seemingly every message on my other (this one). So the symptom is that PowerMail check for new mail and there isn't any. But on the server, if you check via IMAP in PM or in the web interface, there are indeed messages. The delay can be measured in days at a minimum. I can not be sure that some messages are never downloaded. Hopefully PM will download the messages at the server that haven't been downloaded at some point. But this year actually, I discovered not that not one (!) of the messages received on server on the problem account have been downloaded. Can you also post the settings done under Account - Receiving. It's very normal and yes, I've left messages on server for both accounts. Receiving Protocol: POP3 ID: my email POP: pop.gmail.com Connect secure: SSL, dedicated secure port: 995 Leave copies of fetched messages on server the problem won't go away by itself magically. Well, duh'! I assume there is either a problem with your special settings or somewhere else. There's nothing special about them. You need to find the source of problem, else it can't be solved. That's why I have asked for ideas on how to diagnose the problem. I'm going to post the support at Gmail and see what they say. I will also try another email application again and get all messages from the problem account. I'm not holding my breath however. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB ** There is another related problem in that if the connection to the server is ended prematurely which can happen if you want to get all messages on the server, then PowerMail will redownload messages it actually already have downloaded. This results often in duplicates. I have thousands of duplicates in my message DB on the working account, even as I wrote a script to get them out. I got tired of doing that all the time I guess and gave up. Built-in duplicate message handling in PowerMail would be extremely useful.
Re: Anyone at home?
On 3/19/10, at 1:54 PM, MB digital.disc...@gmail.com said: Receiving Protocol: POP3 ID: my email POP: pop.gmail.com Connect secure: SSL, dedicated secure port: 995 Leave copies of fetched messages on server The only difference with my set-up, which works fine, is only my user name is in ID -- not my e-mail address. Tom Miller .. The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark ...
Re: Anyone at home?
Am 19.03.10 22:23, schrieb T.L. Miller: On 3/19/10, at 1:54 PM, MB digital.disc...@gmail.com said: Receiving Protocol: POP3 ID: my email POP: pop.gmail.com Connect secure: SSL, dedicated secure port: 995 Leave copies of fetched messages on server The only difference with my set-up, which works fine, is only my user name is in ID -- not my e-mail address. probably his problem is the amount of mail ... 4000+ that's a lot and who can read so much? I get maybe some 300 to 400 mails per day and don't read them all. cheers Matthias
Re: Anyone at home?
MB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote (Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:54:25 +0100): At the outset of using Gmail in PowerMail on 2 different accounts I attempted to download every message for both accounts, which PowerMail and the server wisely choose to do in chunks of a few hundred messages**. I left them all on the server I think, but I'm not sure actually. After many rechecks all messages actually were downloaded on one account at least. The other problem-affected account stil haven't got all messages even as I set it to redownload every message (currently 4000+) at one point. (...) I assume there is either a problem with your special settings or somewhere else. There's nothing special about them. You've got thousands of messages on a POP server? Well, I'd call that special... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that an email client doesn't need to be able to handle such an amount of messages. It is, in my opinion, a special case nonetheless which might explain why no one else seems to have the problem you do. Kind regards, Tobias Jung
Re: Anyone at home?
On 19/03/2010 9:37 AM, Tobias Jung wrote: MBdigital.disc...@gmail.com wrote (Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:54:25 +0100): At the outset of using Gmail in PowerMail on 2 different accounts I attempted to download every message for both accounts, which PowerMail and the server wisely choose to do in chunks of a few hundred You've got thousands of messages on a POP server? Well, I'd call that special... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that an email client doesn't need to be able to handle such an amount of messages. It is, in my opinion, a special case nonetheless which might explain why no one else seems to have the problem you do. Kind regards, Tobias Jung I don't think you understand. Gmail is ostensibly an IMAP service, basically another email service in the cloud. :-) It is a service designed so that one never needs to delete mail and is accessible anywhere. However, it does have a POP front end as an alternative way in. Same mail store, different method. At work I have my copy of T-bird (PC, 3.x) configured to access both my gmail accounts using IMAP. At home on my Mac I have PowerMail configured to use POP to access the same accounts. In both the PM configurations, the account is set to leave the mail on server indefinitely, thereby mimicking the effect of IMAP. As a result, you *could* say that I too have a POP server account instance with thousands of messages on it. It even seems to have my sent messages as well sent from my POP instance at home. Nice feature. :-)
Re: Anyone at home?
Am 17.03.10 19:59, schrieb MB: I have repeatedly submitted- since version 3 I think - this current bug of mine or if it's better labeled a missing feature request, that the local message DB can get out of sync with the mail on the server and refuse to download it. To get messages reliably I find to be central in an email application. To get zero interest in the issue is not encouraging. I certainly do not believe that this kind of issue have only been happening on the Macs I've been using for PowerMail during the years and on all the mail accounts which have been inflicted with this kind of problem. this implies that your problem is of different nature. My guess would be a corrupt database on the server (which can be big fun). I never had such problems with PM, neither any of my family members who still use PM. As said before I only switched to TB3, because of IMAP and GnuPGP and honestly I miss the clean interface and reliability of PM. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. Exactly, but that kind of problem is not unique for this list. Hopefully it will work now. that's probably the List Server. LetterRip is just an ancient product and sometimes gets a hickup. It's nice to administer than mailman though, but mailman is standard nowadays ;-) cheers Matthias
Re: Anyone at home?
CTM info said: The situation you describe is not something we've ever been able to reproduce and hence fix - in fact, do you think we could have gotten away with a database-to-POP3 server synchronization request since version 3 (2001 ?). First of all, thanks for responding and rendering my response to Matthias pointless. :-) Yes, you could have gotten away wit that if it was a rare bug causing it. I have not had this problem on every account I use. Hence in the early years I blamed the account servers. As Gmail is a high profile company I'm less inclined to blame them this time. At least if only PowerMail is affected. Weighing in on this that is also my experience of having this problem on my own mail server (now gone). Lack of reproduceability is the #1 reason for which things don't get changed in our software; disproportionate effort/result ratio would be #2. Disinterest would be very, very low on the list. Well, how were you expecting to be able to reproduce it, if you didn't ask for data or my assistance? As this the first response I have got on this issue, the latter conclusion have been hard to avoid. If you do want to help me with this issue, this is how I'm thinking about the aspects involved: * As Gmail server communications are encrypted with SSL I'm not sure how I could diagnose the client/server communication. Perhaps I could set up some kind of local middleware server or mirror and let that app make the encrypted connection and use a normal local connection. I'm not sure that would help though, beause maybe the data could be distorted hiding the problem. What would help getting a connection stream would be PowerMail debug logging, if that was available. *But even with that I would be at loss without advice what to actually do about this issue. Maybe it's not the number one priority as the problem is more likely to be about what PowerMail asks for rather than what the server is sending back ? *Is there some way I can diagnose the PM user environment for synchronization problems? Bits to look at or send to you? This doesn't seem like the sort of problem that can't be solved. At least not with cooperation. Let me know what we can do.
Re: Anyone at home?
Matthias wrote: this implies that your problem is of different nature. What imples what? My guess would be a corrupt database on the server (which can be big fun). I never had such problems with PM, neither any of my family members who still use PM. This is highly unlikely given this has been a problem: - for me since version 4 at least of PowerMail - on 6+ different mail accounts on different domains and servers, with different email server applications and different versions of those. servers - of which one was my very own mail server - for an extended length of time. Were talking *years* here. - on 4-5 different Macs surviving reinstalls of the OS, the PowerMail application, new clean PowerMail databases. - this problem doesn't occur if I use another application in parallell, it occurs in PowerMail only. At the moment IMAP and web mail replaces PowerMail doing it properly for me. As the problem is mainly affecting my main email account which prevents me from being up to date within PowerMail I'm nearing changing that hoping the problem will go away - though this approach hasn't helped me in the past - or switching email app, or both possibly. But still, I'd rather not. After all, this kind of problem should be solveable. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.3 build 4609 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1TB
Re: Anyone at home?
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:11:39 +0100, Beatrix Willius bwill...@gmx.de wrote: Support isn't working, submitting a bug doesn't get a result. Depending on something I suppose this aspect of bug reports have selectively been the case for some years. Some bugs have certainly been fixed and features added - which is very nice of course - but its strange as a user to not know at all how relevant bugs are handled internally. At least that doesn't make it more likely that users will report other bugs in the future. I have repeatedly submitted- since version 3 I think - this current bug of mine or if it's better labeled a missing feature request, that the local message DB can get out of sync with the mail on the server and refuse to download it. To get messages reliably I find to be central in an email application. To get zero interest in the issue is not encouraging. I certainly do not believe that this kind of issue have only been happening on the Macs I've been using for PowerMail during the years and on all the mail accounts which have been inflicted with this kind of problem. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. Exactly, but that kind of problem is not unique for this list. Hopefully it will work now.
Re: Anyone at home?
On 13 March Beatrix Willius wrote: Is anyone at home at this list? Yes though not too many I guess from the level of list traffic. Support isn't working, submitting a bug doesn't get a result. A fairly constant complaint it seems and not good for CTM's reputation. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. I've had 10 messages this month, difficult to know if there have been more. Cheers -- Charles
Re: Anyone at home?
Beatrix Willius (bwill...@gmx.de) on 2010-03-13 07:11 said: Is anyone at home at this list? Support isn't working, submitting a bug doesn't get a result. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. Duh. PowerMail is dead. :( Sean
Re: Anyone at home?
On Mar 13, 2010, at 7:11 AM, Beatrix Willius wrote: Is anyone at home at this list? The writing has been on the wall for a LONG TIME, try getting accustomed to Apple's MAIL app, PM is dying a very slow death...
Re: Anyone at home?
Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. I've had 10 messages this month, difficult to know if there have been more. Apparently you sent this two hours after I sent my reply... three days ago. Just got yours now and never received my own reply to the list, namely: Is anyone at home at this list? Support isn't working, submitting a bug doesn't get a result. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. It's like their mail server steadily drops people and gets a manual reboot every few weeks. Rather quiet at my end with just 54 messages for 2010. Chris --
Re: Anyone at home?
Is anyone at home at this list? Support isn't working, submitting a bug doesn't get a result. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. It's like their mail server steadily drops people and gets a manual reboot every few weeks. Rather quiet at my end with just 54 messages for 2010. Chris --
Re: Anyone at home?
C. A. Niemiec (polarb...@friarwire.net) wrote: Just got yours now and never received my own reply to the list, namely: Is anyone at home at this list? Support isn't working, submitting a bug doesn't get a result. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. It's like their mail server steadily drops people and gets a manual reboot every few weeks. Rather quiet at my end with just 54 messages for 2010. That's odd; I had received that message on March 13, a few minutes after you had sent it. The listserver was apparently dead for a couple of weeks, probably all of February, but has been working reliably for most of March now. Having said that, the PowerMail discussions list has never been a particularly active one; nothing new here. - Michael Michael J. Hußmann E-mail: mich...@michael-hussmann.de WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
Re: Anyone at home?
On 3/13/10, at 9:50 PM, Steve Tarpin st...@keylime.com said: The writing has been on the wall for a LONG TIME, try getting accustomed to Apple's MAIL app, PM is dying a very slow death... PowerMail works much better for me than Mail. I'm not aware that PM development has stopped. Personally, I don't require any changes right now. Tom Miller .. The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark ...
Re: Anyone at home?
Beatrix, (FYI - THIS MESSAGE WAS FIRST POSTED ON 13-MAR in response to Beatrix; case in point: it never arrived; seee below): Yes indeed - we're up and running now. We've had pretty intriguing list and mail server issues: the list server is sporadically processing old message,s while our mail queue is routinely stifled by a barrage of spam (our filter is up to 97.4% of spam if that means anything). We have no pending support message for you, but kindly repost any question you have using the Help menu in PowerMail, as these are the messages that we tag and extract from the spam filter in priority. Sorry for the inconvenience to all, jean michel/ctm qa On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:11:39 +0100, Beatrix Willius bwill...@gmx.de wrote: Is anyone at home at this list? Support isn't working, submitting a bug doesn't get a result. Sending a message to the list takes weeks to get even an error message. Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Regards Trixi Willius http://www.mothsoftware.com Mail Archiver X: archive, clean and search email http://www.beatrixwillius.de Fractals, 3d landscapes etc.
