Re: Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Sean McBride]

On Jun 14, 2011, at 18:45, Ben Kennedy wrote:

>> New release (6.1b3) has fixed this it seems!
> 
> Indeed it is -- woohoo.  Thanks, Jérôme!

Yes, this small change makes a huge difference!  Though I've given up on 
PowerMail at home, this will let me hang on a little longer at work (where the 
2 GB limit is less of a problem).

Sean

Re: Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Ben Kennedy]

Derry Thompson wrote at 4:57 PM (+0100) on 6/14/11:

>New release (6.1b3) has fixed this it seems!

Indeed it is -- woohoo.  Thanks, Jérôme!

cheers,

-ben


--
Ben Kennedy (chief magician)
zygoat creative technical services
http://www.zygoat.ca

Re: Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Derry Thompson]

Ben Kennedy at b...@zygoat.ca said on Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:03:22 -0800

>What was the final word on the state of PowerMail's handling of text-
>wrapping in outbound messages?
>
>I routinely get hell from my colleagues using Mail.app when I try to
>send them URLs that get broken across line breaks.  Mail.app does not
>respect the angle-bracket convention, so it only sees the first part of
>the URL.


New release (6.1b3) has fixed this it seems!

Cheers

--
Derry

Re: Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Tobias Jung]

Sean McBride wrote (Wed, 9 Mar 2011 22:12:43 -0500):

>> I routinely get hell from my colleagues using Mail.app when I try to
>> send them URLs that get broken across line breaks.  Mail.app does not
>> respect the angle-bracket convention, so it only sees the first part of
>> the URL.
>
> More chance of Apple fixing this.  Is it just a convention or it is
> actually in an RFC or something?

RFC 3986 says:
"Using <> angle brackets around each URI is especially recommended as a
delimiting style for a reference that contains embedded whitespace."
... and of course, the line break IS a whitespace. Moreover, it
recommends to "recognize and strip both delimiters and embedded whitespace".


So it's just a recommendation but it has been around long enough so
Apple Mail (and every other email client) should know and respect this...
But of course we know that this is not the case so I still use  (or rather, the iTiny URL Dashboard Widget) whenever I
have to send long URLs. Hate to do this, but it seems to be the only
reasonable way...

Kind regards,
Tobias Jung

Re: Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Sean McBride]

On Feb 25, 2011, at 15:03, Ben Kennedy wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I'm loath to revive an old and (I thought settled) discussion, but I did
> a search of my saved email and can't seem to find the particulars.
> 
> What was the final word on the state of PowerMail's handling of text-
> wrapping in outbound messages?

This bug annoys me as well. No doubt it will never be fixed. :(

> I routinely get hell from my colleagues using Mail.app when I try to
> send them URLs that get broken across line breaks.  Mail.app does not
> respect the angle-bracket convention, so it only sees the first part of
> the URL.

More chance of Apple fixing this.  Is it just a convention or it is actually in 
an RFC or something?

Sean

Re(2): Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Bill Schjelderup]

We can all hope so! This is an irritating issues for many. The web links
issue is a real pain too.

I sure hope CTM is working on new releases. As all of us purchased PM
when a "free" mail client was available there may still be a sufficient
number of customers who would pay again for a major upgrade. Time will
tell, so I keep an eye out for alternatives just in case...but none look
like they are worth the switching effort - as email is so important to
me, the purchase price cost is imaterial in relation to getting a tool
that works for me.

If PM 7 removed a few more PM irritations I'd upgrade at once.


+---+
  Bill Schjelderup, President  b...@companioncorp.com
  COMPanion Corporation801-365-0555 voice
  1831 Fort Union Blvd.  801-943-7752 fax
  Salt Lake City, Utah 84121-3041   www.companioncorp.com
+---+
Nusquam est qui ubique est. - He who is everywhere is nowhere.
This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited.  If you are NOT
the intended recipient, I'm sorry to bother you and will attempt to
address my messages more carefully in the future.

>On 25 February Peter Lovell  wrote:
>
>> I'm also having a *lot* of problem with PM not dealing with
>> multi-part MIME content boundaries, such as
>> Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>> boundary*0=;
>> boundary*1=000
>>
>> I get many messages formatted this way and PM is useless -
>> it shows zero content!. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.  This is a
>> real pain.
>
>Checking my files, I see that this issue was raised last September by
>the 'usual suspects'. I find it seriously annoying with my only solution
>being to read the affected mail on-line. Far from ideal, especially when
>I want to keep the message. Now that CTM is up-to-date with PM and
>FoxTrot, perhaps we'll see some action.
>
>-- Charles
>
>
>
>

Re: Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Charles Watts-Jones]

On 25 February Peter Lovell  wrote:

> I'm also having a *lot* of problem with PM not dealing with
> multi-part MIME content boundaries, such as
> Content-type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary*0=;
> boundary*1=000
>
> I get many messages formatted this way and PM is useless -
> it shows zero content!. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.  This is a
> real pain.

Checking my files, I see that this issue was raised last September by
the 'usual suspects'. I find it seriously annoying with my only solution
being to read the affected mail on-line. Far from ideal, especially when
I want to keep the message. Now that CTM is up-to-date with PM and
FoxTrot, perhaps we'll see some action.

-- Charles

Re: Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Peter Lovell]

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011, Ben Kennedy  wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>I'm loath to revive an old and (I thought settled) discussion, but I did
>a search of my saved email and can't seem to find the particulars.
>
>What was the final word on the state of PowerMail's handling of text-
>wrapping in outbound messages?
>
>I routinely get hell from my colleagues using Mail.app when I try to
>send them URLs that get broken across line breaks.  Mail.app does not
>respect the angle-bracket convention, so it only sees the first part of
>the URL.
>
>It appears that PM sends outbound messages with a "Content-Transfer-
>Encoding: quoted-printable", which should facilitate soft wrapping by
>encoding soft EOLs with "=".  However, PM omits the "=" in favour of a
>plain CR/LF, which is interpreted as a hard line break.
>
>Why is this?  Is there some rationale in its favour?  It is not obvious
>to me how this is at all desirable.
>
>cheers,
>
>-ben

Hi Ben,

I have noticed similar issues and filed a bug report back in November
about the issue.

I hadn't recognized it as an encoding issue - so I just complained that
PM was hard-folding lines when sending, unlike Mail.app.

So far I've not received any response but maybe it's time to push the
issue again as it is quite problematic.

I'm also having a *lot* of problem with PM not dealing with multi-part
MIME content boundaries, such as
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary*0=;
 boundary*1=000

I get many messages formatted this way and PM is useless - it shows zero
content!. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.  This is a real pain.

Regards.Peter

Text wrapping and quoted-printable

[Ben Kennedy]

Hey all,

I'm loath to revive an old and (I thought settled) discussion, but I did
a search of my saved email and can't seem to find the particulars.

What was the final word on the state of PowerMail's handling of text-
wrapping in outbound messages?

I routinely get hell from my colleagues using Mail.app when I try to
send them URLs that get broken across line breaks.  Mail.app does not
respect the angle-bracket convention, so it only sees the first part of
the URL.

It appears that PM sends outbound messages with a "Content-Transfer-
Encoding: quoted-printable", which should facilitate soft wrapping by
encoding soft EOLs with "=".  However, PM omits the "=" in favour of a
plain CR/LF, which is interpreted as a hard line break.

Why is this?  Is there some rationale in its favour?  It is not obvious
to me how this is at all desirable.

cheers,

-ben

--
Ben Kennedy (chief magician)
zygoat creative technical services
http://www.zygoat.ca

Re: text wrapping

[Max Gossell]

At Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:45:15 -0400 (CET), C. A. Niemiec
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>1) why are most mail wrapped but some not?
>
>Short answer: somewhere in the process, it happens... :)

Thanks for enlightening me..!!  :-)

Max G

(And thanks for the rest of your comments as well, btw. I take it I
better forget puzzle my head any further in this matter...)

Re: text wrapping

[C. A. Niemiec]

>1) why are most mail wrapped but some not?

Short answer: somewhere in the process, it happens... :)

Long answer: keep reading...

>2) where is the wrapping made;
>a) sending mail client?
>b) sending mail server?
>c) receiving mail client?
>d) receiving mail server?

Could be all of the above, though IIRC I do not think PowerMail wraps
incoming. This list/list software wraps it. Some webmail programs wrap it
(I get some Yahoo e-mails that are set to 60 or such). 

Don't some mail clients automatically perform wrapping cleanup as can be
done manually or with BBEdit/TextSoap/etc.? Haven't tried that many
clients nor enough to know for sure.

And here's a chunk of such discussion from last November ;)  :

either specify, or turn off "Word Wrap" as default - for both incoming
AND outgoing mail.
>>>
>>>Not possible, there is no such concept in RFC 822 e-mail; see Wayne
>>>Brissette for details. :)
>>
>>I'm not sure what you mean "not possible".  Every email client I've ever 
>>used before has an option for settings a specific number of text characters 
>>before the program wraps down to the next line for new outbound 
>>messages.  And most of them had a selection that allowed the user 
>>to turn this function off entirely.  
>>It is unbearably annoying to type specific lines of text with proper
>>formatting 
>>just to see it come out the other end with the sentences all broken up into 
>>smaller sections for no good reason at all.  And were not talking about 
>>endless strings of text without a "return" anywhere to be found.  Most
lines 
>>I type are around 110 characters maximum.  
>>Not to mention it plays havoc with extra long links that the email client 
>>can't read as wrapped to the next line.  That really bites.  :-)  
>
>Since Ben thinks I'm the expert. ;-)
>
>Here is the story on line "wraps". The Internet spec for mail (now RFC
>2822 : ), recommends 78 characters
>per line. 
>
>Here is the direct quote:
>
>2.1.1. Line Length Limits
>
>   There are two limits that this standard places on the number of
>   characters in a line. Each line of characters MUST be no more than
>   998 characters, and SHOULD be no more than 78 characters, excluding
>   the CRLF.
>
>   The 998 character limit is due to limitations in many implementations
>   which send, receive, or store Internet Message Format messages that
>   simply cannot handle more than 998 characters on a line. Receiving
>   implementations would do well to handle an arbitrarily large number
>   of characters in a line for robustness sake. However, there are so
>   many implementations which (in compliance with the transport
>   requirements of [RFC2821]) do not accept messages containing more
>   than 1000 character including the CR and LF per line, it is important
>   for implementations not to create such messages.
>
>   The more conservative 78 character recommendation is to accommodate
>   the many implementations of user interfaces that display these
>   messages which may truncate, or disastrously wrap, the display of
>   more than 78 characters per line, in spite of the fact that such
>   implementations are non-conformant to the intent of this
>   specification (and that of [RFC2821] if they actually cause
>   information to be lost). Again, even though this limitation is put on
>   messages, it is encumbant upon implementations which display messages
>
>   to handle an arbitrarily large number of characters in a line
>   (certainly at least up to the 998 character limit) for the sake of
>   robustness.
>
>
>Now, there is even more to the story than this. The relays that a message
>go through (depending on the age of the equipment) may also put a hard
>wrap at 78 characters. So, when you send your 110 character text it may
>mean your text shows up on the other end looking very odd. There are ways
>that can avoid this such as sending the message as a MIME formatted
>message, but that means the message isn't pure text (which can be a good
>thing at times, although personally I'm more of a purest and like my mail
>as text). 
>
>Anyhow, the bottom line is PowerMail takes the safest route and
>automatically places messages at 78 characters as it is sent out. It
>seems like a pain, but really it is the best route when dealing with
>email, since the lost of a single word can make a huge difference in how
>things interpreted. A quote from Mark Twain comes to mind --  
>
>The difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a
>large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the
lightning.
>- Letter to George Bainton, 10/15/1888 
>
>Anyhow, I realize this isn't what you and some others want, but in the
>overall scheme of things it really is the safest method today. 
>
>Wayne

Chris
-- 

text wrapping

[Max Gossell]

This question may be more general than specific to PM, but I'd be glad if
somebody could explain to me anyhow.

Almost all mail I receive is text wrapped. Only once in a blue moon I get
an un-wrapped mail (with "floating" text). Now, I understand why a text
must be wrapped when quoted, but can't see the reason for it in a first,
original mail.

So...

1) why are most mail wrapped but some not?

2) where is the wrapping made;
a) sending mail client?
b) sending mail server?
c) receiving mail client?
d) receiving mail server?

Max G

Re(3): Text Wrapping (resend)

[Jay]

On 11/4/03, Marlyse declared:

>Oops, my appologies to Wayne and especially the list for cluttering - my
>message was intended to go only to Wayne and not the whole list ;-)

Apology accepted. As you are aware, this subject is TOTALLY off topic.

.because Nietzsche used Eudora.

---Jay

>-- original message(s) follows --
>
>>Marlyse Comte [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 stated:
>>
>>
-- 
sans la Musique la Vie serait une Erreur
Without music, life would be a serious mistake.
- Frederich Nietzsche
>>>
>>>i noticed an error in the translation of the quote you where using. the
>>>word serious is too much, it just should be (literally translated):
>>>
>>>without music, life would be a mistake.
>>>
>>>---marlyse
>>>
>>
>>Interesting. The English translation of this had serious in it. The
>>French translation comes from a t-shirt a friend of mine sent me from
>>France. I really don't even know what language Nietzsche wrote the
>>original in (Russian, German?). If anybody has any ideas or has seen
>>another translation of that included this quote I'd love to know!

Re(3): Text Wrapping (resend)

[Wayne Brissette]

John Snippe [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 stated:

>Oh.. and thanks for the answer to my question, all.  Now I know where to
>go to do what I gotta do... EIMS ;-)

Be careful. Just because you run your own mail server won't guarantee
that the end user won't end up with emails that are hard coded. You will
also have to take into consideration the relays and other end's mail server.

Wayne

-- 
Only sick music makes money today. 
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Live DAT & Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/
Wayne's Music Calendar: http://ical.mac.com/wayneb/Music
PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html

Music Currently playing: Rush "Jacob's Ladder" : Permanent Waves

Re(3): Text Wrapping (resend)

[John Snippe]

On Tue, Nov 4, 2003,  it is attributed to Marlyse Comte to have said:

>Oops, my appologies to Wayne and especially the list for cluttering - my
>message was intended to go only to Wayne and not the whole list ;-)
>
>---marlyse

Fuggitabout it.  Was great to see the multiculturalism here!!

Oh.. and thanks for the answer to my question, all.  Now I know where to
go to do what I gotta do... EIMS ;-)
>
>

-- 
later, 
  JS

"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts; but if he
will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties."
   Sir Francis Bacon

Re(3): Text Wrapping (resend)

[Marlyse Comte]

Oops, my appologies to Wayne and especially the list for cluttering - my
message was intended to go only to Wayne and not the whole list ;-)

---marlyse

-- original message(s) follows --

>Marlyse Comte [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 stated:
>
>
>>>-- 
>>>sans la Musique la Vie serait une Erreur
>>>Without music, life would be a serious mistake.
>>>- Frederich Nietzsche
>>
>>i noticed an error in the translation of the quote you where using. the
>>word serious is too much, it just should be (literally translated):
>>
>>without music, life would be a mistake.
>>
>>---marlyse
>>
>
>Interesting. The English translation of this had serious in it. The
>French translation comes from a t-shirt a friend of mine sent me from
>France. I really don't even know what language Nietzsche wrote the
>original in (Russian, German?). If anybody has any ideas or has seen
>another translation of that included this quote I'd love to know!
>
>Marlyse - Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Since the word
>serious isn't in the French I'll remove it from the English (despite my
>surname, I don't speak French -- Although I do know some latin. However,
>the Pope hasn't called to talk to me, so I haven't been able to use it in
>years). 
>
>Wayne
>
>---
>Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.
>- Mark Twain
>
>Live DAT & Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/
>Wayne's Music Calendar: http://ical.mac.com/wayneb/Music
>PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html
>
>Music Currently playing:
>

---marlyse

Re(3): Text Wrapping (resend)

[Pat O'Halloran]

It appears that on 4/11/03 Wayne Brissette spake thus:

>Interesting. The English translation of this had serious in it. The
>French translation comes from a t-shirt a friend of mine sent me from
>France. I really don't even know what language Nietzsche wrote the
>original in (Russian, German?). If anybody has any ideas or has seen
>another translation of that included this quote I'd love to know!

he wrote in German and the original quote is, as far as I know:

Ohne Musik wäre das Leben ein Irrtum!

No 'serious' in there.

--
Pat O'Halloran http://www.danu.co.uk
TB or not TB, that is the congestion - Woody Allen

Re(2): Text Wrapping (resend)

[Wayne Brissette]

Marlyse Comte [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 stated:

>>-- 
>>sans la Musique la Vie serait une Erreur
>>Without music, life would be a serious mistake.
>>- Frederich Nietzsche
>
>i noticed an error in the translation of the quote you where using. the
>word serious is too much, it just should be (literally translated):
>
>without music, life would be a mistake.
>
>---marlyse
>

Interesting. The English translation of this had serious in it. The
French translation comes from a t-shirt a friend of mine sent me from
France. I really don't even know what language Nietzsche wrote the
original in (Russian, German?). If anybody has any ideas or has seen
another translation of that included this quote I'd love to know!

Marlyse - Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Since the word
serious isn't in the French I'll remove it from the English (despite my
surname, I don't speak French -- Although I do know some latin. However,
the Pope hasn't called to talk to me, so I haven't been able to use it in
years). 

Wayne

---
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.
- Mark Twain

Live DAT & Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/
Wayne's Music Calendar: http://ical.mac.com/wayneb/Music
PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html

Music Currently playing:

Re(2): Text Wrapping (resend)

[Marlyse Comte]

>-- 
>sans la Musique la Vie serait une Erreur
>Without music, life would be a serious mistake.
>- Frederich Nietzsche

i noticed an error in the translation of the quote you where using. the
word serious is too much, it just should be (literally translated):

without music, life would be a mistake.

---marlyse

Re: Text Wrapping

[C. A. Niemiec]

>Is there a setting in PowerMail to deal with text-wrapping?  IOW, can
>emails be set to wrap at 72, 80, 120, or whatever characters, or is this
>a default setting within PM?

From 30 September:

>>I don't see a Preference for setting how PM wraps lines. Is there one?
>
>Don't think so. Allow me to quote myself quoting Wayne Brissette (from 6
>June 2003):
>
>>Wayne Brissette made this note ("Word/Line wrapping - can it be disabled?"):
>>-
>>>>Does anyone know if/how word wrapping can be turned off for sending
>>>>messages via Powermail?  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>>>>
>>>Wow.. I feel like this is a deja vu all over again...
>>>
>>>Word wrapping cannot be disabled. As much as people think a mail client
>>>controls it, the mail client doesn't. See RFC 822
>>>
>>><http://www.tac.nyc.ny.us/cgi-bin/rfc?822>.
>>-
>>
>>I'm guessing section 3.4.8 on page 15 of that RFC.

Chris
--

Re: Text Wrapping (resend)

[Wayne Brissette]

John Snippe [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 stated:

>On Sat, Nov 1, 2003,  it is attributed to John Snippe to have said:
>
>>Is there a setting in PowerMail to deal with text-wrapping?  IOW, can
>>emails be set to wrap at 72, 80, 120, or whatever characters, or is this
>>a default setting within PM?

No. And even if you could set these, a lot of mail relays will chop them
at 72 or 72 characters. Then you end up with very odd looking emails anyhow. 

I think it's important for folks to understand that email is still run on
a lot of VERY old hardware and some of these systems took the RFC to
heart and had to have line breaks hard coded. Maybe in 10-20 years we'll
finally move away from the hard coded linebreaks, but I wouldn't hold my
breath.

Wayne

-- 
sans la Musique la Vie serait une Erreur
Without music, life would be a serious mistake.
- Frederich Nietzsche

Live DAT & Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/
Wayne's Music Calendar: http://ical.mac.com/wayneb/Music
PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html

Music Currently playing:

Re: Text Wrapping (resend)

[Rick Lecoat]

Previous threads on this subject have seemed to settle on the fact that
the wrapping is not done by the email client (in this case PM) but rather
by the mail server that handles the transmission.

Hope this helps;
Rick

--
G5 2GHz x2  ::  2GB RAM  ::  10.2.8  ::  PM 4.2.1  ::  3 pane mode

--
Original message:
Received from John Snippe on 4/11/03 at 2:55 pm

>>Is there a setting in PowerMail to deal with text-wrapping?  IOW, can
>>emails be set to wrap at 72, 80, 120, or whatever characters, or is this
>>a default setting within PM?
>>
>>
>
>-- 
>later, 
>  JS

Re: Text Wrapping (resend)

[John Snippe]

On Sat, Nov 1, 2003,  it is attributed to John Snippe to have said:

>Is there a setting in PowerMail to deal with text-wrapping?  IOW, can
>emails be set to wrap at 72, 80, 120, or whatever characters, or is this
>a default setting within PM?
>
>

-- 
later, 
  JS

"The cruelest lies are often told in silence."
   Robert Louis Stevenson

Text Wrapping

[John Snippe]

Is there a setting in PowerMail to deal with text-wrapping?  IOW, can
emails be set to wrap at 72, 80, 120, or whatever characters, or is this
a default setting within PM?

Text Wrapping (Was: Requesting scripts and features)

[Max Gossell]

THANK YOU...

Not only is there a PowerMail script included -- I just died when I
realized I can use the script together with modifier keys to get "keep
quote level", "quote level 1", "completely unwrapped" etc, etc !!

...AND THANKS AGAIN !!!

Max G

(Joining this group has been truly fruitful. Thanks everybody for being
so generous in sharing knowledge.)

At 11 mars 2003, 23.29 CET, Andy Fragen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
>
>On Fri, Mar 7, 2003, Wayne Brissette said:
>
>>>6) Script/Feature: Rewrap Text. When a mail has went back and forth a few
>>>times, the text wrap in the quoted text tends to mess up. The ability to
>>>rewrap text is important or it might become half impossible to read
>>>through the complete correspondence.
>>
>>For what it's worth, I find TextSOAP does the best job of this (but it
>>requires a copy and paste of the information). As mentioned there are
>>also some AppleScripts available that you can try.
>
>You may also try SmartWrap. mac.htm>
>
>-- 
>Andy Fragen