Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Stephen Russell wrote:
> Ray says that the world is a changing.
> 
>  —software-is-dead-long-live-the-web/>
> 
> Would you write software to do the vertical you do for use on the web
> instead?
> 
> 

I'm definitely using a web-based database, with a fat client front end 
(using n-tier design for maximum flexibility/design).


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Andrew Stirling]

Unfortunately, I was unable to see this site from my business machine.
When I looked into it, the site wanted to register 13 scripts.
I declined to accept them all.


Andrew Stirling
01250 874580
http://www.calcpay.co.uk
HMRC Accredited UK payroll program


Stephen Russell wrote:
> Ray says that the world is a changing.
> 
>  —software-is-dead-long-live-the-web/>
> 
> Would you write software to do the vertical you do for use on the web
> instead?
> 
> 



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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Andrew Stirling wrote:
> Unfortunately, I was unable to see this site from my business machine.
> When I looked into it, the site wanted to register 13 scripts.
> I declined to accept them all.
> 
> 

I don't even see the article!  What crap.


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Malcolm Greene]

Stephen posted a bad URL. Here's a correct URL sent as tinyurl to avoid
word wrap.

http://tinyurl.com/3zsuu3

Malcolm


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Malcolm Greene wrote:
> Stephen posted a bad URL. Here's a correct URL sent as tinyurl to avoid
> word wrap.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/3zsuu3
> 
> Malcolm
> 


No no, I fixed his bum link, and it still shows nothing...verified by 
your good URL above.


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Malcolm Greene wrote:
> Stephen posted a bad URL. Here's a correct URL sent as tinyurl to avoid
> word wrap.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/3zsuu3
> 


I just see the ads...no article content.


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Paul McNett]

Malcolm Greene wrote:
> Stephen posted a bad URL. Here's a correct URL sent as tinyurl to avoid
> word wrap.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/3zsuu3

Nope, it is still an empty article (Firefox on Mac).

Paul


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Malcolm Greene]

Strange. It worked for me this morning. (No snide remarks please)

Try this page - the link in question is one of the most recent articles.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/22/

Malcolm


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Ted Roche]

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Paul McNett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Nope, it is still an empty article (Firefox on Mac).
>

Try:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/22

and click on "The Ozzie Memo" -- no, wait, that's broken, too, there's
ugly bits in the URL. Try (watch the wrap!)

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/22/the-ozzie-memo%e2%80%94software-is-dead-long-live-the-web/

Even if you could read it, it's an empty article. Microsoft announces
that they have innovated "The Mesh" -- what Steve Jobs called the
Digital Hub five years ago, only MS-centric. The mashups that Google
and Yahoo and everyone else have been doing for years, only
MS-centric. Brilliant insights include:

"1. The Web is the Hub of our social mesh and our device mesh."

Yeah, and...?

"2. The Power of "Choice" as business moves to embrace the cloud."

Choice? Who's been banging that drum? And MS puts in in airquotes. MS
Choice: Take it or Leave it.

"3.Small Pieces Loosely Joined for developers, within the cloud and
across a world of devices."

SPLJ was a very good book, but this is a terrible redefinition of it.

Nothing to see here, move along...

I thought Ozzie's memo from 2005 [1] was more insightful, though it's
quite dated now. I think the Borg is assimilating him...

[1] http://www.scripting.com/disruption/ozzie/theinternetservicesdisruptio.htm

-- 
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Malcolm Greene wrote:
> Strange. It worked for me this morning. (No snide remarks please)
> 
> Try this page - the link in question is one of the most recent articles.
> 
> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/22/
> 

There was a comment on MyMesh.com about Web 3.0.I didn't realize 
that Web 2.0 was old news already!!!   Ugh


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Ted Roche wrote:

> Nothing to see here, move along...
> 
> I thought Ozzie's memo from 2005 [1] was more insightful, though it's
> quite dated now. I think the Borg is assimilating him...
> 
> [1] http://www.scripting.com/disruption/ozzie/theinternetservicesdisruptio.htm
> 


Does this come as a shock that he or any other Microsoftie toes the 
company line?  After all, that is his livelihood and bread/butter. 
They're paying the bills.  To go against the hand that feeds you is 
asking to be fired and potentially having to find another job that does 
not take as good care of you.  Same response when people complain about 
the VFP team disbanding.what did you expect them to do?  They're 
soldiers in M$'s army, just following orders.  They're just indians, not 
the chiefeven Ozzie. He's responsible to someone above him...(who is 
that anywaythat crazy, chair-throwing guy Ballmer?  )


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Paul McNett]

MB Software Solutions General Account wrote:
> Does this come as a shock that he or any other Microsoftie toes the 
> company line?  After all, that is his livelihood and bread/butter. 
> They're paying the bills.  To go against the hand that feeds you is 
> asking to be fired and potentially having to find another job that does 
> not take as good care of you.  Same response when people complain about 
> the VFP team disbanding.what did you expect them to do?  

Is that why Microsoft is so lackluster? They are merely an army of 
yes-people that aren't going to speak up if they see something wrong?

Paul



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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Paul McNett wrote:
> MB Software Solutions General Account wrote:
>> Does this come as a shock that he or any other Microsoftie toes the 
>> company line?  After all, that is his livelihood and bread/butter. 
>> They're paying the bills.  To go against the hand that feeds you is 
>> asking to be fired and potentially having to find another job that does 
>> not take as good care of you.  Same response when people complain about 
>> the VFP team disbanding.what did you expect them to do?  
> 
> Is that why Microsoft is so lackluster? They are merely an army of 
> yes-people that aren't going to speak up if they see something wrong?
>

There's a difference between saying "this seems wrong" and not being 
able to have any impact.  Take Ken Levy or any other PM before.  Ken 
specifically was quoted as saying he'd market VFP to those outside of 
the VFP church (...it's refeernced in the ProFox archives from 
Bouljewin(sp?) if you need the reference)...but the powers above him set 
him straight apparently shortly thereafter his appointment.  Calvin 
could do virtually anything with VFP I'm sure, but the powers above him 
said "enoughno more on that product...start working your wonders in 
DotNet instead."

Then again, perhaps you're right with that comment...if the shoe fits, ...


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Ted Roche]

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:35 PM, MB Software Solutions General Account
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Does this come as a shock that he or any other Microsoftie toes the
>  company line?  After all, that is his livelihood and bread/butter.
>  They're paying the bills.  To go against the hand that feeds you is
>  asking to be fired and potentially having to find another job that does
>  not take as good care of you.

Ray Ozzie (http://www.crunchbase.com/person/ray-ozzie) holds the
position of Chief Software Architect, Bill Gates former position, is
an Officer of the company and answers to shareholders and the board.
He's also had a couple of successful ventures (Notes, Groove) that
don't leave him living from paycheck-to-paycheck.

He's not doing it for the money.

>  Same response when people complain about
>  the VFP team disbanding.what did you expect them to do?

Totally different situation. Great big glass ceiling between the
workers and Billionaire Boy's Club.

>  the chiefeven Ozzie. He's responsible to someone above him...(who is
>  that anywaythat crazy, chair-throwing guy Ballmer?  )

Ozzie's CSA and was CTO. Ballmer's CEO. They both answer to the board.

And I'm not attacking the man. I think he's done some great work. I'm
attacking the message.

-- 
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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RE: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Rick Schummer]

>> Calvin could do virtually anything with VFP I'm sure, but the powers above 
>> him said "enoughno
more on that product...start working your wonders in DotNet instead."<<

Or you could say he took an opportunity to work on something that was not a 
20-year old codebase,
and work on something strategic for the company when he was asked. 

I posted a blog on this a long time ago and was told it was very close to the 
truth.

Seriously, how would you have managed his career if you were in his shoes?

How many of us here love working with code *someone* else developed as far back 
as the 1980's, with
the dictate to keep 100% backwards compatibility when adding new features? That 
is exactly what
Calvin (Richard, and Aleksey) was doing full-time for a long time. I doubt 
there are many people on
this list who can say they are doing the same.

If you have met Calvin you would know he is not a drone. These guys like doing 
what they are doing.

Rick
White Light Computing, Inc.

www.whitelightcomputing.com
www.swfox.net
www.rickschummer.com





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RE: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Rick Schummer]

>> Is that why Microsoft is so lackluster? They are merely an army of 
yes-people that aren't going to speak up if they see something wrong?<<

Paul, you and I have obviously must have met or know different people at 
Microsoft. I have not met a
single yes-person, and in fact, I can say most of the softies I have met are 
rebels. And for the
record, I know plenty of people outside of the Fox Team.

Rick
White Light Computing, Inc.

www.whitelightcomputing.com
www.swfox.net
www.rickschummer.com





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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Ted Roche wrote:
> Ray Ozzie (http://www.crunchbase.com/person/ray-ozzie) holds the
> position of Chief Software Architect, Bill Gates former position, is
> an Officer of the company and answers to shareholders and the board.
> He's also had a couple of successful ventures (Notes, Groove) that
> don't leave him living from paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> He's not doing it for the money.

LOL!  You may be rightbut he likes the paychecks, to be sure, I'll 
bet!  (Who wouldn't?!)

> 
>>  Same response when people complain about
>>  the VFP team disbanding.what did you expect them to do?
> 
> Totally different situation. Great big glass ceiling between the
> workers and Billionaire Boy's Club.
> 
>>  the chiefeven Ozzie. He's responsible to someone above him...(who is
>>  that anywaythat crazy, chair-throwing guy Ballmer?  )
> 
> Ozzie's CSA and was CTO. Ballmer's CEO. They both answer to the board.

Aah, then he perhaps IS the guy who could certainly affect change in the 
right (whatever that is) direction rather than continuing an angle of 
the company that perhaps isn't correct (whatever that is)!!  Bill Arnold 
-- get Ozzie's ear to push your pro-VFP agenda.  


> 
> And I'm not attacking the man. I think he's done some great work. I'm
> attacking the message.
> 

No, I didn't read you as attacking the man.  Rather, I was referring to 
Rick Schummer's blog (although that obviously wasn't clear) where Rick 
said that many attack the team.

I agree and appreciated your points, though.


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Paul McNett]

Rick Schummer wrote:
>>> Is that why Microsoft is so lackluster? They are merely an army of 
> yes-people that aren't going to speak up if they see something wrong?<<
> 
> Paul, you and I have obviously must have met or know different people at 
> Microsoft. I have not met a
> single yes-person, and in fact, I can say most of the softies I have met are 
> rebels. And for the
> record, I know plenty of people outside of the Fox Team.

I was mostly trying to slap MB's insinuation that Microsoft is an army 
of drones, not agree with him.

Paul


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Paul McNett wrote:
> Rick Schummer wrote:
 Is that why Microsoft is so lackluster? They are merely an army of 
>> yes-people that aren't going to speak up if they see something wrong?<<
>>
>> Paul, you and I have obviously must have met or know different people at 
>> Microsoft. I have not met a
>> single yes-person, and in fact, I can say most of the softies I have met are 
>> rebels. And for the
>> record, I know plenty of people outside of the Fox Team.
> 
> I was mostly trying to slap MB's insinuation that Microsoft is an army 
> of drones, not agree with him.
> 


No no no...let me clarify/correctI think that there are indeed 
rebels (like the Fox team and similar "indians") but the chiefs are a 
different breed perhaps.

Forget it...it's total supposition/impression and no hard factjust 
ramblings.  I'm grumpy today.


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Rick Schummer wrote:
>>> Calvin could do virtually anything with VFP I'm sure, but the powers above 
>>> him said "enoughno
> more on that product...start working your wonders in DotNet instead."<<
> 
> Or you could say he took an opportunity to work on something that was not a 
> 20-year old codebase,
> and work on something strategic for the company when he was asked. 
> 
> I posted a blog on this a long time ago and was told it was very close to the 
> truth.
> 
> Seriously, how would you have managed his career if you were in his shoes?

I don't think I said anything (or didn't mean to) to contradict his 
move.  Obviously it's a good one that affords him much more professional 
growth and opportunity.  The developer base for DotNet is huge, 
especially compared to Foxpro, which is miniscule in comparsion.

> 
> How many of us here love working with code *someone* else developed as far 
> back as the 1980's, with
> the dictate to keep 100% backwards compatibility when adding new features? 
> That is exactly what
> Calvin (Richard, and Aleksey) was doing full-time for a long time. I doubt 
> there are many people on
> this list who can say they are doing the same.
> 
> If you have met Calvin you would know he is not a drone. These guys like 
> doing what they are doing.

I never meant to imply he's a drone.  Sorry...my bad if so.  I think 
he's brilliant.  He could have done more with VFP for sure as he's a 
genius; however, a much better opportunity presented itself and he (very 
appropriately) took it.

How's thatclear now?


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Paul McNett]

MB Software Solutions General Account wrote:
> Paul McNett wrote:
>> Rick Schummer wrote:
> Is that why Microsoft is so lackluster? They are merely an army of 
>>> yes-people that aren't going to speak up if they see something wrong?<<
>>>
>>> Paul, you and I have obviously must have met or know different people at 
>>> Microsoft. I have not met a
>>> single yes-person, and in fact, I can say most of the softies I have met 
>>> are rebels. And for the
>>> record, I know plenty of people outside of the Fox Team.
>> I was mostly trying to slap MB's insinuation that Microsoft is an army 
>> of drones, not agree with him.
>>
> 
> 
> No no no...let me clarify/correctI think that there are indeed 
> rebels (like the Fox team and similar "indians") but the chiefs are a 
> different breed perhaps.

I think the chiefs suffer from a general lack of vision, that there are 
drones in Microsoft as there are in any company or human community, but 
that at the same time Microsoft employs some of the most brilliant minds 
and software architects in the world. That, and the sheer amount of 
money they have available to throw at a problem, means that they can 
succeed even after taking many hits.


> Forget it...it's total supposition/impression and no hard factjust 
> ramblings.  I'm grumpy today.

Me too. I quit coffee cold-turkey this morning.

Paul


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RE: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Rick Schummer]

>> How's thatclear now?<<

Sure, so did you get a chance to take your happy pill? 

Rick
White Light Computing, Inc.

www.whitelightcomputing.com
www.swfox.net
www.rickschummer.com




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RE: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Rick Schummer]

>> I was mostly trying to slap MB's insinuation that Microsoft is an army of 
>> drones, not agree with
him.<<

Sorry Paul, I obviously missed your sarcasm. Poor grumpy MB, getting smacked 
around this evening.


Rick
White Light Computing, Inc.

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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Paul McNett]

Rick Schummer wrote:
>>> I was mostly trying to slap MB's insinuation that Microsoft is an army of 
>>> drones, not agree with
> him.<<
> 
> Sorry Paul, I obviously missed your sarcasm. Poor grumpy MB, getting smacked 
> around this evening.
> 

Well, I also got to call MS 'so lackluster'. How could I miss that 
opportunity? Kind of like saying "she is very pregnant". :)

Paul


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Rick Schummer wrote:
>>> I was mostly trying to slap MB's insinuation that Microsoft is an army of 
>>> drones, not agree with
> him.<<
> 
> Sorry Paul, I obviously missed your sarcasm. Poor grumpy MB, getting smacked 
> around this evening.
> 
> 

Oh no pity neededI deserved that for being ambiguous at best.  I 
think I'm coming down with something...been feeling something (sick) 
coming on since this week began.  Note to self:  don't post when you 
feel like this.  


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RE: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Bill Arnold]

Michael,

> > Ozzie's CSA and was CTO. Ballmer's CEO. They both answer to 
> the board.
> 
> Aah, then he perhaps IS the guy who could certainly affect 
> change in the 
> right (whatever that is) direction rather than continuing an angle of 
> the company that perhaps isn't correct (whatever that is)!!  
> Bill Arnold 
> -- get Ozzie's ear to push your pro-VFP agenda.  


I think, for now, the better course of action is just to sell products
and see where we stand in 5 or so years. MS is eventually going to have
to do something about VFP's continuity, and I think they know that. Best
resolution: turn it over to some team that will take it over with
respect for MS's proprietary stuff, but keep it going.



Bill



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RE: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Alan Bourke]

I see many apps moving to technologies like Air and Silverlight,
ultimately, which offer a web-based but rich-client-like experience,
with the advantage of cross-platform.
-- 
  Alan Bourke
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[MB Software Solutions General Account]

Bill Arnold wrote:
> Michael,

> 
> I think, for now, the better course of action is just to sell products
> and see where we stand in 5 or so years. MS is eventually going to have
> to do something about VFP's continuity, and I think they know that. Best
> resolution: turn it over to some team that will take it over with
> respect for MS's proprietary stuff, but keep it going.
> 

Bill,

M$ did do something about M$'s continuitythey decided not to 
continue with it!

Bill -- why won't you see that it's over in terms of any forward 
development?  Sure, the tool as it currently is will work for another 
decade+, but what you see is what you getnothing more than what 
we've got---with the exception of the great things folks are doing with 
Sedna/VFPXand that's some great stuff (e.g., Foxcharts).  I don't 
feel bad about using VFP as it does so much and will continue to work 
for quite a while, but M$ is done with it.  I don't think that could be 
any more clear than it is today.

Seriously though---what more do you want M$ to do with FoxPro?  What is 
VFP not doing now for you?


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Stephen Russell]

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Rick Schummer <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >> Is that why Microsoft is so lackluster? They are merely an army of
> yes-people that aren't going to speak up if they see something wrong?<<
>
> Paul, you and I have obviously must have met or know different people at
> Microsoft. I have not met a
> single yes-person, and in fact, I can say most of the softies I have met
> are rebels. And for the
> record, I know plenty of people outside of the Fox Team.
>
---

Same here.  Granted my knowledge is not at a decision maker, they are the
force that either comes in to fix your blues or to show you how you can fix
the blues you have with this or that from MicroSquish.

Those same people can wear Blue  or grey 

They are all hard working folk who can think and want to do the BEST for the
client.  More like a Miracle on 34th St. type of cater to the customer.

-- 
Stephen Russell
Sr. Production Systems Programmer
Mimeo.com
Memphis TN

901.246-0159


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Re: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Stephen Russell]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:19 AM, Bill Arnold <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Michael,
>
> > > Ozzie's CSA and was CTO. Ballmer's CEO. They both answer to
> > the board.
> >
> > Aah, then he perhaps IS the guy who could certainly affect
> > change in the
> > right (whatever that is) direction rather than continuing an angle of
> > the company that perhaps isn't correct (whatever that is)!!
> > Bill Arnold
> > -- get Ozzie's ear to push your pro-VFP agenda.  
>
>
> I think, for now, the better course of action is just to sell products
> and see where we stand in 5 or so years. MS is eventually going to have
> to do something about VFP's continuity, and I think they know that. Best
> resolution: turn it over to some team that will take it over with
> respect for MS's proprietary stuff, but keep it going.
>
--

You sound like the H.S. kid that says I don't need to go to college.  There
is nothing there for me.  Instead I'm going to change oil at the lube shop.

10 years later my step son said "I wish I thought about college back then"

YMMV

-- 
Stephen Russell
Sr. Production Systems Programmer
Mimeo.com
Memphis TN

901.246-0159


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RE: [NF] Do you see apps moving to the web/cloud as positive?

[Bill Arnold]

Michael,

> > I think, for now, the better course of action is just to sell
products 
> > and see where we stand in 5 or so years. MS is eventually going to 
> > have to do something about VFP's continuity, and I think they know 
> > that. Best resolution: turn it over to some team that will take it
over with
> > respect for MS's proprietary stuff, but keep it going.
 
> Seriously though---what more do you want M$ to do with 
> FoxPro?  What is VFP not doing now for you?

I may have not been clear enough. I don't expect MS to do anything with
FoxPro - other then not kill it. That may take work at some point, I
don't know, but if it does someone should be allowed to do it.

As far as enhancements, it's been shown that VFP can be used to improve
itself, and that's fine with me.


Bill



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