[Puppet Users] Re: pkgsrc provider for Package?

[James Turnbull]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
Jesse Reynolds wrote:
>
>
> 2009/1/28 James Turnbull  >
>
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Jesse Reynolds wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone has looked into adding pkgsrc package
> > management as a provider for Package?
> Not as far as I am aware.
> > I had planned on using puppet to manage our joyent virtual
> boxes and
> > our local developer virtual machines including installation of
> ruby,
> > rails, apache, etc etc out of pkgsrc but seems this might be non
> > trivial. Any advice appreciated.
> Well I'd start with logging a ticket.  pkgsrc is a NetBSD thing
> right?  Does it work like ports?  Is there a pkgsrc package for
> Puppet?
>
>
> It works similarly to ports, yes. It can build from scratch like
> ports, or it can install from a pre-built package repository.
>
> Yes there is package for Puppet in pkgsrc :-)

So I just looked quickly at the doco for pkgsrc and the existing
freebsd, openbsd and ports support in Puppet and it looks to me like
it'll work fine.  It's currently confined to only work on OpenBSd and
FreeBSD but it'd be an easy fix to update that and if there are minor
bugs fix those.

The files you want to look at are:

lib/puppet/provider/package/openbsd.rb
lib/puppet/provider/package/freebsd.rb
lib/puppet/provider/package/ports.rb

Cheers

James Turnbull

- --
Author of:
* Pulling Strings with Puppet
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599780/)
* Pro Nagios 2.0
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590596099/)
* Hardening Linux
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159059/)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 
iEYEARECAAYFAkmABSoACgkQ9hTGvAxC30CQhgCg2JnsbhQ1fPJ2TDbUIYjRkcaJ
7gAAoLgiWpIa3yPTLI8xISfgeiQp1JLz
=NveT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: pkgsrc provider for Package?

[Jesse Reynolds]

2009/1/28 James Turnbull 

>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Jesse Reynolds wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone has looked into adding pkgsrc package
> > management as a provider for Package?
> Not as far as I am aware.
> > I had planned on using puppet to manage our joyent virtual boxes and
> > our local developer virtual machines including installation of ruby,
> > rails, apache, etc etc out of pkgsrc but seems this might be non
> > trivial. Any advice appreciated.
> Well I'd start with logging a ticket.  pkgsrc is a NetBSD thing
> right?  Does it work like ports?  Is there a pkgsrc package for Puppet?


It works similarly to ports, yes. It can build from scratch like ports, or
it can install from a pre-built package repository.

Yes there is package for Puppet in pkgsrc :-)

 OK I'll log a ticket, thanks.

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: pkgsrc provider for Package?

[James Turnbull]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
Jesse Reynolds wrote:
> Hello
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has looked into adding pkgsrc package
> management as a provider for Package?
Not as far as I am aware.
> I had planned on using puppet to manage our joyent virtual boxes and
> our local developer virtual machines including installation of ruby,
> rails, apache, etc etc out of pkgsrc but seems this might be non
> trivial. Any advice appreciated.
Well I'd start with logging a ticket.  pkgsrc is a NetBSD thing
right?  Does it work like ports?  Is there a pkgsrc package for Puppet?

Regards

James

- --
Author of:
* Pulling Strings with Puppet
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599780/)
* Pro Nagios 2.0
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590596099/)
* Hardening Linux
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159059/)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 
iEYEARECAAYFAkmAAJkACgkQ9hTGvAxC30B9NQCeIzMIoM1vZwoe5e02NkBXWhaw
zQYAoIO6vssPbB3OBIgyPKdBdplMjwr1
=00WI
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] pkgsrc provider for Package?

[Jesse Reynolds]

Hello

I'm wondering if anyone has looked into adding pkgsrc package
management as a provider for Package?

We use Joyent accelerators (zones on OpenSolaris) for our many of our
production services and about a year ago Joyent switched from
Blastwave to pkgsrc for userland packages.

  pkgsrc catalog - http://pkgsrc.se/
  pkgsrc guide - http://www.netbsd.org/docs/pkgsrc/
  joyent pkgsrc info - http://wiki.joyent.com/accelerators:kb:pkgsrc

I had planned on using puppet to manage our joyent virtual boxes and
our local developer virtual machines including installation of ruby,
rails, apache, etc etc out of pkgsrc but seems this might be non
trivial. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks
Jesse


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Solaris zone documentation

[Matt McLeod]

I'm following the example provided in the type reference
under 'zone', i.e.:

zone{myzone:
autoboot=>true,
create_args=>"-b",
ip=>"nge0:10:130.55.201",
path=>"/zoneds/%s",
realhostname=>"myzone.example.com",
sysidcfg=>template(sysidcfg)
}

with the following template:

system_locale=en_AU
timezone=Australia/NSW
terminal=xterms
security_policy=NONE
root_password=elided
timeserver=localhost
name_service=DNS {domain_name=<%= domain %>
name_server=10.132.2.150}
network_interface=primary {hostname=<%= realhostname %>
ip_address=<%= ip %>
netmask=<%= netmask %>
protocol_ipv6=no
default_route=<%= defaultroute %>}
nfs4_domain=dynamic

The sysidcfg template is ripped straight from

but it doesn't work:

err: Could not retrieve catalog: Failed to parse template sysidcfg: Could not 
find value for 'realhostname' at 
/staging/puppet/production/manifests/nodes.pp:90 on node elided.example.com

This is with Puppet 0.24.7 on both client and server.

I've not really needed the templating before so it's possible that
there's a really obvious error in the template provided in the
type reference and I'm just not seeing it.

Matt

-- 
* Matt McLeod | mail: m...@boggle.org | blog: http://abortrephrase.com/ *
 --- People can do the work, so machines have time to think ---

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: puppet webserver

[Tom D. Davidson]

Thank you for your help. BTW, when i said, "...despite the resistance
of other web servers..." i meant "existence of other web servers".

"Very low resources" in the range of  ~32mb RAM.

The device to be managed by puppet will optionally run an web service
that need .htaccess. I would like the set up of Puppet to be
consistent crossed the devices regardless of other web services.

Im curious if best practice would to have Puppet run in its own web
server rather than a virtual host on Apache.

What is everyone else experiencing in resource consumption?

-tom

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Automating removal of applications

[nicolas]

Hello,

  I'm currently prototyping the use of Puppet to manage a bunch of
home-made applications on a lot of servers.
  As our applications evolves frequently and multiples versions can
be used at the same time, we use classes that include version in their
name, like "myApplication_1-2-0"

A typical application class like "myApplication_1-2-0" contains for
example a package to install, some configuration files as templates, a
crontab, a service definition and a mount point

When I want to deploy version 1-3-0 of my application on a node, to
replace version 1-2-0, the standard way to do with puppet, as I
understand it, would be :
  - node initially contains "include myApplication_1-2-0"
  - I edit node to contains "include myApplication_1-2-0::remove"
where myApplication_1-2-0::remove is a class that removes everything
myApplication_1-2-0 installed
  - I apply the config to node
  - I edit the node to contains "include myApplication_1-3-0"
  - I apply the config to node

But on node, there is the localconfig.yaml file (usually in /var/lib/
puppet/) that contains everything needed to know what should be
removed when myApplication_1-2-0 is installed.
I was thinking of automating this step like this :
  - retrieve config from master
  - retrieve local config (in localconfig.yaml)
  - if an application has not the same version on the master and
locally then
  a)  change everything to absent for version which is locally
installed
  b) apply this, so local version is removed
  c) then apply config from master, so new version is installed

Do you think it's a good approach ?
If not, do you know an alternate ways to manage applications that have
several versions ?

thanks for your answers
nicolas

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: I'm starting to think that mongrel is not working

[bunkytom]

I upgraded ruby, installed mongrel again.   Everything is now working
successfully.

Tom


On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Bunkzillla  wrote:

>
> I started from scratch scratch...
>
> I'm getting further.  I'll post more tomorrow.
>
>
>
> On Jan 26, 8:57 pm, bunkytom  wrote:
> > No I mean when I try to do the puppetd -vdt --server localhost
> --masterport
> > 18140
> >
> > it just hangs.
> >
> > I've tried doing the gems install mongrel again.   The puppetmasterd is
> > starting, is there anyway of getting more debug information other than
> the
> > puppetmasterd -vd ?That's not showing anything useful as far as I can
> > tell.
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Andrew Shafer  >wrote:
> >
> > > I get that it just hangs, that is the puppetd making the request to the
> > > puppemasterd.
> >
> > > Then you also had a Pound log that looks like the request was received
> > > there and but Pound was stuck waiting for mongrel on 127.0.0.1:18140.
> >
> > > Without more data, I think you are right that the problem is mongrel
> > > related. Have you tried setting it up again from scratch?
> >
> > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Bunkzillla 
> wrote:
> >
> > >> It just hangs...
> >
> > >> debug: /Settings[/etc/puppet/puppet.conf]/Settings[puppetd]/File[/var/
> > >> lib/puppet/state/state.yaml]: Changing mode
> > >> debug: /Settings[/etc/puppet/puppet.conf]/Settings[puppetd]/File[/var/
> > >> lib/puppet/state/state.yaml]: 1 change(s)
> > >> debug: /Settings[/etc/puppet/puppet.conf]/Settings[puppetd]/File[/var/
> > >> lib/puppet/state/state.yaml]/mode: mode changed '640' to '660'
> > >> debug: Finishing transaction -606634738 with 1 changes
> > >> debug: Loaded state in 0.01 seconds
> > >> debug: Retrieved facts in 0.30 seconds
> > >> debug: Retrieving catalog
> > >> debug: Calling puppetmaster.getconfig
> >
> > >> On Jan 25, 11:42 pm, Andrew Shafer  wrote:
> > >> > Based on what you have so far, I think you are correct.
> >
> > >> > Mongrel is probably not working.
> >
> > >> > If I'm reading things correctly, you are getting a request on pound
> > >> which
> > >> > evokes no response from the mongrels.
> >
> > >> > I've never seen this problem or troubleshot it, but what do you get
> from
> > >> > 127.0.0.1:18140? Is it possible mongrel is running, but the mongrel
> > >> +pound
> > >> > isn't configured?
> >
> > >> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:15 PM, Bunkzillla 
> wrote:
> >
> > >> > > I've had puppet 0.24.6 running successfully using webrick, but
> it's
> > >> > > time to move to multiple puppetmasterd processes.
> >
> > >> > > mongrel (0.3.3)
> > >> > >A small fast HTTP library and server that runs Rails, Camping,
> and
> > >> > >Nitro apps.
> >
> > >> > > Running on CentOS 4.2
> >
> > >> > > I'm thinking it's something with mongrel, cause things just hang,
> I
> > >> > > don't get cert errors.
> >
> > >> > > I've followed the using mongrel with pound twiki page.
> >
> > >> > > Here is a listing of my pem files
> >
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/csr_devpet.admin.sf.example.com.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/private_keys/devpet.admin.sf.example.com.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/certs/devpet.admin.sf.example.com.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/certs/ca.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/ca/signed/devpet.admin.sf.example.com.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/ca/ca_crl.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/ca/ca_key.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/ca/ca_pub.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/ca/ca_crt.pem
> > >> > > ./puppet/ssl/public_keys/devpet.admin.sf.example.com.pem
> >
> > >> > > I created the pound key file doing the following:
> >
> > >> > > cat /var/lib/puppet/ssl/private_keys/devpet.admin.sf.yav4.com.pem
> >> \
> > >> > >   /var/lib/puppet/ssl/pound/host_key_and_cert_chain.pem
> >
> > >> > > cat /var/lib/puppet/ssl/certs/devpet.admin.sf.yav4.com.pem >>  \
> > >> > >   /var/lib/puppet/ssl/pound/host_key_and_cert_chain.pem
> >
> > >> > > cat /var/lib/puppet/ssl/ca/ca_crt.pem >> \
> > >> > >   /var/lib/puppet/ssl/pound/host_key_and_cert_chain.pem
> >
> > >> > > debug:
> /Settings[/etc/puppet/puppet.conf]/Settings[puppetd]/File[/var/
> > >> > > lib/puppet/state/state.yaml]: 1 change(s)
> > >> > > debug:
> /Settings[/etc/puppet/puppet.conf]/Settings[puppetd]/File[/var/
> > >> > > lib/puppet/state/state.yaml]/mode: mode changed '640' to '660'
> > >> > > debug: Finishing transaction -606617684 with 1 changes
> > >> > > debug: Loaded state in 0.01 seconds
> > >> > > debug: Retrieved facts in 0.31 seconds
> > >> > > debug: Retrieving catalog
> > >> > > debug: Calling puppetmaster.getconfig
> > >> > > err: Connection timeout calling puppetmaster.getconfig: execution
> > >> > > expired
> > >> > > err: Could not retrieve catalog: exception class/object expected
> > >> > > warning: Not using cache on failed catalog
> >
> > >> > > I see this from pound:
> >
> > >> > > Jan 25 20:03:32 devpet pound: response error read from
> > >> > > 127.0.0.1:18140: Connection timed out
> >
>

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this m

[Puppet Users] Re: Quote, dollar and pipe

[Luke Kanies]

On Jan 27, 2009, at 2:58 AM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 06:40:54PM -0600, Luke Kanies wrote:
>>> PS. May be my first message in this list, so : "mille mercis
>>> pour cet outil fantastique !" :-)
>>
>>
>> /me fails to dredge up rusty Français from college
>
> For me, it's rusty Français from all of before-college (I was raised
> in Canada), and I made my comprehension roll.  It means "A thousand
> thank-yous for this fantastic utility."

Heh, sorry; I was trying to dredge up an appropriate response en  
Français and failed, I actually successfully parsed the original  
phrase (although I like your 'comprehension roll').  Reading is always  
easier than writing. :)

-- 
I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at anytime". So I
ordered French Toast during the Renaissance. -- Stephen Wright
-
Luke Kanies | http://reductivelabs.com | http://madstop.com


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: A Survey about Puppet and Reductive Labs

[Luke Kanies]

On Jan 27, 2009, at 3:07 AM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 04:54:53PM -0600, Luke Kanies wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'd appreciate your help improving our understanding of what the
>> community is most looking for from Puppet, how Reductive Labs
>> manages  it, and how best to provide services around the project.
>>
>> Toward this end, we've created a short survey (it should take you
>> less  than ten minutes):
>>
>> http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/95175/q1-2008-puppet-user-survey
>
> This survey presents a challenge for me.  My work has lots of
> machines and uses cfengine (as an aside, Nate Campi's my boss's
> boss, and while he's certainly willing to take my word that Puppet
> is better at this point, there's a *lot* of stuff we'd have to
> convert (I count 630K lines of cfengine config), and it's not really
> worth the effort).
>
> All 3 of my person machines are puppet managed.  The way the
> survey's written, I'd fill out stuff about my personal machines.
>
> But I don't *want* Puppet optimized for my 3 personal boxes; I want
> Puppet optimized for my work, even though we're not (currently)
> using it there.
>
> Not sure what to do with that.

You're right, though, that we didn't do a good job of addressing this  
question.

I'd say just pick a notes field that seems most appropriate and  
describe that.

For a project as large as converting 630k of code Yuck.  Yeah, you  
have to have a damn good reason for that.  I think parts of Puppet  
could justify that, but you'd probably not move all the way to Puppet  
until some machines got decommissioned.

We'll keep this in mind in later surveys; thanks.

-- 
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right
in doing it. -- G. K. Chesterton
-
Luke Kanies | http://reductivelabs.com | http://madstop.com


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: package versioning with the yum provider?

[windowsrefund]

Looks like upgrades are working with this approach but downgrades
fail. Of course, this condition I'm seeing could exist due to the fact
that I'm managing 2 packages where packageB depends on packageA.
Perhaps it is possible to downgrade a single package...

Any thoughts or insights out there?

Best,
Adam

On Jan 24, 9:15 pm, RijilV  wrote:
> 2009/1/24 windowsrefund 
>
>
>
> > I don't see this information on the Type Reference page so I'm hoping
> > someone can provide an example of how to specify a package version
> > when the yum provider is used.
>
> > Thanks
>
> IIRC:
>
> package { "package":
>     ensure => '1.0-1',
>
> }
>
> .r'
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Stoking a Religious War: Why Did You Go With Puppet Over Other Options?

[Robin Lee Powell]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 05:39:05AM -0800, tomcat wrote:
> 
> Hi, Gang..
> 
> The Subject: line says it all. My organisation is looking at
> selecting a configuration management system. Any comments about
> why you chose Puppet over other options would be very helpful to
> us.

Because after helping my company put together ~600K lines of
cfengine configs, I thought it was time to check out other options.
Puppet has so far (in a much smaller environment) completely failed
to have any of the problems that annoyed me with cfengine.

The only trouble I've had so far is the lack of anything like
EditFiles, but Augeas is fixing that.

-Robin

-- 
They say:  "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking:  "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Stoking a Religious War: Why Did You Go With Puppet Over Other Options?

[Michael T. Halligan]

My reasoning is pretty simplistic. Because Luke is a businessman who  
built Puppet with what I believe is the goal of turning it into a  
sustainable business that solves problems for businesses. All of the  
other alternatives were built by academics as reasons to write papers  
that would get them to LISA for free. I sat down with Luke and someone  
from RedHat 3 or 4 years ago while he was developing Puppet, and had a  
bitch session about why I hated CFEngine. I clearly laid out what
I felt would be valuable (IE something I'd pay for) and it felt that  
he listened. It was the right move.

On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:39 AM, tomcat wrote:

>
> Hi, Gang..
>
>  The Subject: line says it all. My organisation is looking at
> selecting a configuration management
> system. Any comments about why you chose Puppet over other options
> would be very helpful to us.
>
> Cheers,
> Tomcat
>
> >

--
Michael T. Halligan
http://www.datacenterjunkie.com/


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Stoking a Religious War: Why Did You Go With Puppet Over Other Options?

[E M]

I swear by Puppet. It's the right tool for the task, designed from the
ground up to do what it does best. That plus it is super-flexible, readable,
extensible, and has a dope community.

That's my un-professional, not-so-well written $.02.



On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Larry Ludwig  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Jan 27, 9:47 am, Evan Hisey  wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Jonathan Share 
> wrote:
> >
> > > 2009/1/27 tomcat :
> >
> > >> Hi, Gang..
> >
> > >>  The Subject: line says it all. My organisation is looking at
> > >> selecting a configuration management
> > >> system. Any comments about why you chose Puppet over other options
> > >> would be very helpful to us.
> >
> > Well, there are basicly 4 options really in this area.
> >
> > 1) roll-your-own
> > 2) cfengine
> > 3) puppet
> > and now 4) Chef
>
> Don't forget Capistrano which some use for administration (I think
> it's better suited for app deployment)
>
> The reasons why we chose Puppet
> - Language is easy to understand, read and learn
> - Self healing in the sense if something is borked it will try to make
> it the state you specify
> - Template options are pretty flexible.
> - Language is abstract for the resources you choose (makes it easier
> to implement multiple OSes)
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> >
>

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Stoking a Religious War: Why Did You Go With Puppet Over Other Options?

[Larry Ludwig]

On Jan 27, 9:47 am, Evan Hisey  wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Jonathan Share  wrote:
>
> > 2009/1/27 tomcat :
>
> >> Hi, Gang..
>
> >>  The Subject: line says it all. My organisation is looking at
> >> selecting a configuration management
> >> system. Any comments about why you chose Puppet over other options
> >> would be very helpful to us.
>
> Well, there are basicly 4 options really in this area.
>
> 1) roll-your-own
> 2) cfengine
> 3) puppet
> and now 4) Chef

Don't forget Capistrano which some use for administration (I think
it's better suited for app deployment)

The reasons why we chose Puppet
- Language is easy to understand, read and learn
- Self healing in the sense if something is borked it will try to make
it the state you specify
- Template options are pretty flexible.
- Language is abstract for the resources you choose (makes it easier
to implement multiple OSes)

Hope this helps.



--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: augeas on solaris?

[Peter Meier]

Hi

> Has anyone used Augeas on solaris? I guess that the lenses may not work
> there.
> 
> Has anyone compiled augeas on solaris? I tried, but I got warnings aout
> asprintf not being available and I could not find the installation package
> for it.

the best thing would be to ask this on: augeas-de...@redhat.com . I
think David Lutterkort and folks might know something about that.

cheers pete

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Automating removal of an application

[Mike Renfro]

Evan Hisey wrote:

> About the only time you need to do a wholesale application removal is
> when you want to remove it from a system. If you have lots of 
> applications that are just ugly to install an dremove you may want to
> take a look at Stow.

If you use stow, you may want my stowedpackage definition. You may find 
improvements can be made, too: http://tinyurl.com/3n5npl

-- 
Mike Renfro  / R&D Engineer, Center for Manufacturing Research,
931 372-3601 / Tennessee Technological University -- ren...@tntech.edu

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Automating removal of an application

[Evan Hisey]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:18 AM, nicolas  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>   I'm currently prototyping the use of Puppet to manage a bunch of
> home-made applications on a lot of servers.
>   As our applications evolves frequently and multiples versions can
> be used at the same time, we use classes that include version in their
> name, like "myApplication_1-2-0"
>
>  A typical application class like "myApplication_1-2-0" contains for
> example a package to install, some configuration files as templates, a
> crontab, a service definition and a mount point
>
>  When I want to deploy version 1-3-0 of my application on a node, to
> replace version 1-2-0, the standard way to do with puppet, as I
> understand it, would be :
>  - node initially contains "include myApplication_1-2-0"
>  - I edit node to contains "include myApplication_1-2-0::remove"
> where myApplication_1-2-0::remove is a class that removes everything
> myApplication_1-2-0 installed
>  - I apply the config to node
>  - I edit the node to contains "include myApplication_1-3-0"
>  - I apply the config to node
>
> But on node, there is the localconfig.yaml file (usually in /var/lib/
> puppet/) that contains everything needed to know what should be
> removed when myApplication_1-2-0 is installed.
> I was thinking of automating this step like this :
>  - retrieve config from master
>  - retrieve local config (in localconfig.yaml)
>  - if an application has not the same version on the master and
> locally then
>   a)  change everything to absent for version which is locally
> installed
>   b) apply this, so local version is removed
>   c) then apply config from master, so new version is installed
>
> Do you think it's a good approach ?
> If not, do you know an alternate ways to manage applications that have
> several versions ?
>
> thanks for your answers
> nicolas
>
I can see atleast one big got-ya with this approach. It would work
okay with packages using ensure => present and that don't get update
by the local update utility. But anything using ensure => latest or
that gets updated by the local update utility is going to get hosed. I
find the best approach with pacakges that need a lot of configs that
change version to version is either wrap it all up in an RPM or use
somethinglike the generate function to create config files on the
file. In most cases, though all that really needs to be done is update
the template and config files, they will replace the old ones and tell
puppet to ensure => present with the version number you want.

About the only time you need to do a wholesale application removal is
when you want to remove it from a system. If you have lots of
applications that are just ugly to install an dremove you may want to
take a look at Stow.

Evan

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] augeas on solaris?

[Dan Bode]

Has anyone used Augeas on solaris? I guess that the lenses may not work
there.

Has anyone compiled augeas on solaris? I tried, but I got warnings aout
asprintf not being available and I could not find the installation package
for it.

thanks,

Dan

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Stoking a Religious War: Why Did You Go With Puppet Over Other Options?

[Evan Hisey]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Jonathan Share  wrote:
>
> 2009/1/27 tomcat :
>>
>> Hi, Gang..
>>
>>  The Subject: line says it all. My organisation is looking at
>> selecting a configuration management
>> system. Any comments about why you chose Puppet over other options
>> would be very helpful to us.
>>
>
Well, there are basicly 4 options really in this area.

1) roll-your-own
2) cfengine
3) puppet
and now 4) Chef

Problems with option one range from scalability to maintainability. It
does have the advantage of being dirt cheap and you know everything
about it in house, but for me the maintenance issues were driving me
to something else. Option 2 was just a right PITA everytime I tried to
use it. Option 4 was not available at the time.

So I started with puppet, since then puppet has just gotten better and
keeps making life better. It scales great. It has made doing OS
upgrades much easier. Basicly made everything I do maintenance wise
better.

Evan

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: facter PATH env

[James Turnbull]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Paul Nasrat wrote:
> 2009/1/27 Dan Bode :
>> I want to set a facter for the current users(root) PATH. The problem is
>> that  virtual.rb is always setting the PATH to be
>>
>> ENV["PATH"]="/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin"
>>
>> perhaps this file should save the PATH ENV and reset it once its done
>> executing.
>>
>> Is there another way that I should be doing this?
> 
> This sounds like a bug can you file one and we'll fix -
> http://projects.reductivelabs.com/projects/facter/issues
> 

It's fixed in commit 051c8437586758870e6898918f10a05b217587c0 already.
It'll be in 1.5.3 - out shortly.

Cheers

James Turnbull


- --
Author of:
* Pulling Strings with Puppet
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599780/)
* Pro Nagios 2.0
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590596099/)
* Hardening Linux
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159059/)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFJfxlN9hTGvAxC30ARAiSXAKC22IzO4YBBaPpXK2xY5tRm5vSBXACeLMEs
B2Ij8YGZhqKH3Q6zu4U4fgg=
=Pomj
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: facter PATH env

[Paul Nasrat]

2009/1/27 Dan Bode :
> I want to set a facter for the current users(root) PATH. The problem is
> that  virtual.rb is always setting the PATH to be
>
> ENV["PATH"]="/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin"
>
> perhaps this file should save the PATH ENV and reset it once its done
> executing.
>
> Is there another way that I should be doing this?

This sounds like a bug can you file one and we'll fix -
http://projects.reductivelabs.com/projects/facter/issues

Thanks

Paul

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] facter PATH env

[Dan Bode]

I want to set a facter for the current users(root) PATH. The problem is
that  virtual.rb is always setting the PATH to be

ENV["PATH"]="/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin"

perhaps this file should save the PATH ENV and reset it once its done
executing.

Is there another way that I should be doing this?

thanks,

Dan

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Stoking a Religious War: Why Did You Go With Puppet Over Other Options?

[Jonathan Share]

2009/1/27 tomcat :
>
> Hi, Gang..
>
>  The Subject: line says it all. My organisation is looking at
> selecting a configuration management
> system. Any comments about why you chose Puppet over other options
> would be very helpful to us.
>

My reason was just readability, I was comparing puppet with cfengine
and reading through the documentation I found the puppet examples to
be much more readable.

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Stoking a Religious War: Why Did You Go With Puppet Over Other Options?

[tomcat]

Hi, Gang..

  The Subject: line says it all. My organisation is looking at
selecting a configuration management
system. Any comments about why you chose Puppet over other options
would be very helpful to us.

Cheers,
Tomcat

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Automating removal of an application

[nicolas]

Hello,

   I'm currently prototyping the use of Puppet to manage a bunch of
home-made applications on a lot of servers.
   As our applications evolves frequently and multiples versions can
be used at the same time, we use classes that include version in their
name, like "myApplication_1-2-0"

 A typical application class like "myApplication_1-2-0" contains for
example a package to install, some configuration files as templates, a
crontab, a service definition and a mount point

 When I want to deploy version 1-3-0 of my application on a node, to
replace version 1-2-0, the standard way to do with puppet, as I
understand it, would be :
  - node initially contains "include myApplication_1-2-0"
  - I edit node to contains "include myApplication_1-2-0::remove"
where myApplication_1-2-0::remove is a class that removes everything
myApplication_1-2-0 installed
  - I apply the config to node
  - I edit the node to contains "include myApplication_1-3-0"
  - I apply the config to node

But on node, there is the localconfig.yaml file (usually in /var/lib/
puppet/) that contains everything needed to know what should be
removed when myApplication_1-2-0 is installed.
I was thinking of automating this step like this :
  - retrieve config from master
  - retrieve local config (in localconfig.yaml)
  - if an application has not the same version on the master and
locally then
   a)  change everything to absent for version which is locally
installed
   b) apply this, so local version is removed
   c) then apply config from master, so new version is installed

Do you think it's a good approach ?
If not, do you know an alternate ways to manage applications that have
several versions ?

thanks for your answers
nicolas

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Quote, dollar and pipe

[Alban Peignier]

Robin Lee Powell wrote:

>> "mille mercis pour cet outil fantastique !" :-)
> It means "A thousand thank-yous for this fantastic utility."

Exactly :) Many thanks for this great tool
-- 
Alban Peignier - alban.peign...@free.fr
http://people.tryphon.org/~alban

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Quote, dollar and pipe

[Alban Peignier]

Luke Kanies wrote:

> Could it be related to shell quoting?  I wouldn't think so, because I  
> don't think the shell interprets the stdout, but they should behave  
> exactly the same.
> 
> Could you file this as a bug?

"Yes, I can" :) http://projects.reductivelabs.com/issues/1900
-- 
Alban Peignier - alban.peign...@free.fr
http://people.tryphon.org/~alban

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Mounts: virtual ressources or multiple classes ?

[Calimero]

Hi,

We're trying to implement the following structure:

class my_pool {
  include linux, httpd... base modules

  include project_A
  include project_B
}

One pool can have many projects. One projects can be on many pools.

A project is basically made of:
- directories + NFS mounts
- users and crontabs
- apache virtualhosts

Problem is that users and mounts can be used by differents projects
(yet they need not be setup on all nodes/hosts). So I can't have this:

class project_A
{
   user { "bob" :
...
   }

   # also needed in project_B
   file { "/mnt/used_in_several_projects":
 
   }

   mount { "/mnt/used_in_several_projects" :
 
   }
}

I see two options:
- have virtual mounts/users/files in mounts::virtual and
users::virtual classes and then realize() them where needed
- create various classes which include real (non-virtual) ressources
and then include the various classes where needed.

I'm not sure what way I should go. Having a mounts::virtual class with
all (potentially) common mounts means I don't have to split mounts
among various classes which may end up quite messy over time. I just
throw mounts that intersect two or more projects in the virtual class
and realize() where needed.

On the other hand, having all the realize() function calls in each
project class somewhat defeats the purpose of
"reusability"/"factorization"...

Anyway, what would you suggest on the long term ?

Thanks !
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: A Survey about Puppet and Reductive Labs

[James Turnbull]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 04:54:53PM -0600, Luke Kanies wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'd appreciate your help improving our understanding of what the
>> community is most looking for from Puppet, how Reductive Labs
>> manages  it, and how best to provide services around the project.
>>
>> Toward this end, we've created a short survey (it should take you
>> less  than ten minutes):
>>
>> http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/95175/q1-2008-puppet-user-survey
> 
> This survey presents a challenge for me.  My work has lots of
> machines and uses cfengine (as an aside, Nate Campi's my boss's
> boss, and while he's certainly willing to take my word that Puppet
> is better at this point, there's a *lot* of stuff we'd have to
> convert (I count 630K lines of cfengine config), and it's not really
> worth the effort).
> 
> All 3 of my person machines are puppet managed.  The way the
> survey's written, I'd fill out stuff about my personal machines.
> 
> But I don't *want* Puppet optimized for my 3 personal boxes; I want
> Puppet optimized for my work, even though we're not (currently)
> using it there.
> 
> Not sure what to do with that.

Be aspirational.  Identify what it is about cfengine you don't currently
like in your enterprise, add in your personal experiences with Puppet,
and survey away.

Cheers

James

- --
Author of:
* Pulling Strings with Puppet
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599780/)
* Pro Nagios 2.0
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590596099/)
* Hardening Linux
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159059/)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFJfs/l9hTGvAxC30ARAvNaAKC2mch7qg6H1jTcC1cONt1e/IMZegCgtZGL
j1Ug38jjDEfOWiDH+HMvGmc=
=TPql
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: A Survey about Puppet and Reductive Labs

[Robin Lee Powell]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 04:54:53PM -0600, Luke Kanies wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'd appreciate your help improving our understanding of what the
> community is most looking for from Puppet, how Reductive Labs
> manages  it, and how best to provide services around the project.
> 
> Toward this end, we've created a short survey (it should take you
> less  than ten minutes):
> 
> http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/95175/q1-2008-puppet-user-survey

This survey presents a challenge for me.  My work has lots of
machines and uses cfengine (as an aside, Nate Campi's my boss's
boss, and while he's certainly willing to take my word that Puppet
is better at this point, there's a *lot* of stuff we'd have to
convert (I count 630K lines of cfengine config), and it's not really
worth the effort).

All 3 of my person machines are puppet managed.  The way the
survey's written, I'd fill out stuff about my personal machines.

But I don't *want* Puppet optimized for my 3 personal boxes; I want
Puppet optimized for my work, even though we're not (currently)
using it there.

Not sure what to do with that.

-Robin

-- 
They say:  "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking:  "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: Quote, dollar and pipe

[Robin Lee Powell]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 06:40:54PM -0600, Luke Kanies wrote:
> > PS. May be my first message in this list, so : "mille mercis
> > pour cet outil fantastique !" :-)
> 
> 
> /me fails to dredge up rusty Français from college

For me, it's rusty Français from all of before-college (I was raised
in Canada), and I made my comprehension roll.  It means "A thousand
thank-yous for this fantastic utility."

-Robin

-- 
They say:  "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking:  "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---