[pygame] Linux binaries

[yanom @linuxmail.org]

I understand you can use py2exe to make your python program into a Windows 
executable, but is there a tool for making them into a Linux binary? I want my 
game to run faster.

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Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[James Paige]

On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 06:10:03AM +0800, yanom @linuxmail.org wrote:
> I understand you can use py2exe to make your python program into a Windows 
> executable, but is there a tool for making them into a Linux binary? I want 
> my game to run faster.

cx_freeze can bindle your python application into a linux program 
similar to how py2exe bundles an exe file for Windows

However, you are mistaken if you think this will cause your program to 
execute faster. There will be no meaningful speed difference.

You might want to look into psyco. The psyco module can usually make 
your python program run faster on most processors.

But if you are really serious about making your program faster, you need 
to learn about profiling.

---
James Paige

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Greg Ewing]

yanom @linuxmail.org wrote:


I understand you can use py2exe to make your python program into
a Windows executable, but is there a tool for making them into a
Linux binary? I want my game to run faster.


If you're thinking that py2exe makes Python programs run faster
on Windows, you're assuming wrongly. All it does is bundle up
the bytecode files with a copy of the interpreter into a
convenient package.

There's a tool called "freeze" that allows you to do something
similar on unix systems, but it won't make anything run faster
either.

The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.

--
Greg

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Patrick Mullen]

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
> parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
>
> --
> Greg
>
>

Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[yanom @linuxmail.org]

> - Original Message -
> From: "Greg Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: pygame-users@seul.org
> Subject: Re: [pygame] Linux binaries
> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:55:45 +1300
> 
> 
> yanom @linuxmail.org wrote:
> 
> > I understand you can use py2exe to make your python program into
> > a Windows executable, but is there a tool for making them into a
> > Linux binary? I want my game to run faster.
> 
> If you're thinking that py2exe makes Python programs run faster
> on Windows, you're assuming wrongly. All it does is bundle up
> the bytecode files with a copy of the interpreter into a
> convenient package.
> 
> There's a tool called "freeze" that allows you to do something
> similar on unix systems, but it won't make anything run faster
> either.
> 
> The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
> parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
> 
> -- Greg

>
Speed isn't a problem, because I plan on making my game 2d.

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Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Greg Ewing]

Patrick Mullen wrote:

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.


Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.


Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
the best form of optimization!

--
Greg

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Charlie Nolan]

> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> the best form of optimization!

Yup.  Even a supercomputer is going to choke if you feed it Bogosort.

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[bhaaluu]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 5:10 PM, yanom @linuxmail.org
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I understand you can use py2exe to make your python program into a Windows 
> executable, but is there a tool for making them into a Linux binary? I want 
> my game to run faster.
>

Your game will run faster on GNU/Linux anyway.

The important thing is to make your source code
available, so many eyes can see it. You'll find out
soon enough where the knotholes are! Use the
Source Luke!

Now, if the real reason you want to distribute a
Binary Blob to GNU/Linux users is because you want
to generate some sort of income, your game probably
isn't worth the few cents you want to charge for it.

As if! Why do you even think GNU/linux users would want
a Binary Blob of your little game on their disk?
Think about it!

I don't even know what thought process caused you to
even ask this question?

The best thing about GNU/Linux is the people who USE it!
-- 
b h a a l u u at g m a i l dot c o m
Kid on Bus: What are you gonna do today, Napoleon?
Napoleon Dynamite: Whatever I feel like I wanna do. Gosh!

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Peter Gebauer]

Hi guys!

I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code benefits 
(speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in Python, or 
at least that is my experience. :)
Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to compile
C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.

On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Patrick Mullen wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
>>> parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
>>
>> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
>
> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> the best form of optimization!
>
> -- 
> Greg
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[René Dudfield]

yeah, best to use both!  Use each tool where it is best at - and get
best of both worlds!

cu,

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Peter Gebauer
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi guys!
>
> I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code benefits
> (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in Python, or
> at least that is my experience. :)
> Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to compile
> C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
>
> On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
>> Patrick Mullen wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
 The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
 parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
>>>
>>> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
>>
>> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
>> the best form of optimization!
>>
>> --
>> Greg
>>
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Matt Pearson]

i agree, does the wrapper have a name, or is it on the python/pygame sites

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM, René Dudfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> yeah, best to use both!  Use each tool where it is best at - and get
> best of both worlds!
>
> cu,
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Peter Gebauer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Hi guys!
> >
> > I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code
> benefits
> > (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in Python,
> or
> > at least that is my experience. :)
> > Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to
> compile
> > C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
> >
> > On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
> >> Patrick Mullen wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
>  The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
>  parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
> >>>
> >>> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
> >>
> >> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> >> the best form of optimization!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Greg
> >>
> >
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Matt Pearson]

nvm i just got to see which one wil be the best for what im doing

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Matt Pearson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> i agree, does the wrapper have a name, or is it on the python/pygame sites
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM, René Dudfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> yeah, best to use both!  Use each tool where it is best at - and get
>> best of both worlds!
>>
>> cu,
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Peter Gebauer
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  > Hi guys!
>> >
>> > I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code
>> benefits
>> > (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in
>> Python, or
>> > at least that is my experience. :)
>> > Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to
>> compile
>> > C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
>> >
>> > On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
>> >> Patrick Mullen wrote:
>> >>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>
>>  The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
>>  parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
>> >>>
>> >>> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
>> >> the best form of optimization!
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Greg
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Matt Pearson]

i have been doing C++ for a while now and was wondering if there was a
python
wrapper for it, if so can i use and compile in visual studio??



On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Peter Gebauer <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi guys!
>
> I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code benefits
> (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in Python,
> or
> at least that is my experience. :)
> Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to
> compile
> C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
>
> On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
> > Patrick Mullen wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
> >>> parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
> >>
> >> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
> >
> > Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> > the best form of optimization!
> >
> > --
> > Greg
> >
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[yanom @linuxmail.org]

Uh.
you misunderstood me. I use Linux (Xubuntu), and I am going to release the 
source code for my game. The only reason I wanted to release a so-called 
"Binary Blob" is to give Linux users another option for using the game than 
installing from source. I also thought that Binary Blobs where faster than 
Source Blobs.
> - Original Message -
> From: bhaaluu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: pygame-users@seul.org
> Subject: Re: [pygame] Linux binaries
> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:27:48 -0500
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 5:10 PM, yanom @linuxmail.org
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I understand you can use py2exe to make your python program into 
> > a Windows executable, but is there a tool for making them into a 
> > Linux binary? I want my game to run faster.
> >
> 
> Your game will run faster on GNU/Linux anyway.
> 
> The important thing is to make your source code
> available, so many eyes can see it. You'll find out
> soon enough where the knotholes are! Use the
> Source Luke!
> 
> Now, if the real reason you want to distribute a
> Binary Blob to GNU/Linux users is because you want
> to generate some sort of income, your game probably
> isn't worth the few cents you want to charge for it.
> 
> As if! Why do you even think GNU/linux users would want
> a Binary Blob of your little game on their disk?
> Think about it!
> 
> I don't even know what thought process caused you to
> even ask this question?
> 
> The best thing about GNU/Linux is the people who USE it!
> --
> b h a a l u u at g m a i l dot c o m
> Kid on Bus: What are you gonna do today, Napoleon?
> Napoleon Dynamite: Whatever I feel like I wanna do. Gosh!

>


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Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[yanom @linuxmail.org]

What's Bogosort?
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charlie Nolan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: pygame-users@seul.org
> Subject: Re: [pygame] Linux binaries
> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:06:39 -0600
> 
> 
> > Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> > the best form of optimization!
> 
> Yup.  Even a supercomputer is going to choke if you feed it Bogosort.

>


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Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[James Paige]

Here is a nice bogosort
http://www.siafoo.net/algorithm/5

On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 08:48:04AM +0800, yanom @linuxmail.org wrote:
> What's Bogosort?
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Charlie Nolan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: pygame-users@seul.org
> > Subject: Re: [pygame] Linux binaries
> > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:06:39 -0600
> > 
> > 
> > > Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> > > the best form of optimization!
> > 
> > Yup.  Even a supercomputer is going to choke if you feed it Bogosort.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> =
> Local Doors & Door Frames
> Find Local area door & door frame dealers at YellowPages.
> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=749b3206efcdf5712e92bb91fe34e820
> 
> 
> -- 
> Powered by Outblaze
> 
> 

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Bill Coderre]

On Nov 5, 2008, at 4:48 PM, yanom @linuxmail.org wrote:

What's Bogosort?


Back in my day, we didn't have Wikipedia, we had the Jargon file, and  
we LIKED it. (Note that although if I am really to show my age, I have  
to decry the Eric Raymond "update" which, to a large extent, diluted  
the winnage of the original. But the original does not have an entry  
for Bogo-Sort, so there you go.)


http://catb.org/jargon/html/B/bogo-sort.html

It is highly educational and entertaining to read these old  
repositories of wordplay and politics. For instance, you probably have  
always frobbed things (it's part of the hacker DNA), but now you can  
understand the distinction between frobbing, twiddling, and tweaking,  
and this might actually come in handy at some point. See also the  
story about Magic in the Appendix.

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Patrick Atambo]

For algorithms you could try Weave, a package in SciPy, no need to compile
with any compiler, it just runs, Fast.
Check these  comparisons out, the
only thing faster than Pyrex, C++ on Weave, without the additional memory
overhead of Pyrex :-)

Kind Regards,
Patrick Atambo.

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Matt Pearson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> i have been doing C++ for a while now and was wondering if there was a
> python
> wrapper for it, if so can i use and compile in visual studio??
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Peter Gebauer <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys!
>>
>> I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code
>> benefits
>> (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in Python,
>> or
>> at least that is my experience. :)
>> Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to
>> compile
>> C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
>>
>> On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
>> > Patrick Mullen wrote:
>> >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
>> >>> parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
>> >>
>> >> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
>> >
>> > Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
>> > the best form of optimization!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Greg
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Peter Gebauer]

Hey there!

There are some alternatives, some like automatic generation like Swig, 
Boost, etc, some like Pyrex, I prefer to write Python extensions in C using 
the standard Python C-implementation API. PyGame, being written in C, is 
also easy to access.
As for C++, I don't know of any specific C++ API's, but then again I don't 
use C++ at all so I haven't looked.
There's also the option of doing the reverse scenario, embedding instead of 
extending, you'll have to see what fits your project best.

/Peter

On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 08:29, Matt Pearson wrote:
> i agree, does the wrapper have a name, or is it on the python/pygame sites
> 
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM, René Dudfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > yeah, best to use both!  Use each tool where it is best at - and get
> > best of both worlds!
> >
> > cu,
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Peter Gebauer
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  > Hi guys!
> > >
> > > I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code
> > benefits
> > > (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in Python,
> > or
> > > at least that is my experience. :)
> > > Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to
> > compile
> > > C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
> > >
> > > On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
> > >> Patrick Mullen wrote:
> > >>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
> >  parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
> > >>>
> > >>> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
> > >>
> > >> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> > >> the best form of optimization!
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Greg
> > >>
> > >
> >

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Matt Pearson]

im sorry if this is the wrong forum but im having an error
im doing the AI example in Will McGugans Python/Pygame book
The error is
  run()
NameError: name 'run' is not defined

i have the lastest gameobjects module so im kinda stumped
and its not using OpenGL either

thanks

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Bill Coderre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Nov 5, 2008, at 4:48 PM, yanom @linuxmail.org wrote:
>
>> What's Bogosort?
>>
>
> Back in my day, we didn't have Wikipedia, we had the Jargon file, and we
> LIKED it. (Note that although if I am really to show my age, I have to decry
> the Eric Raymond "update" which, to a large extent, diluted the winnage of
> the original. But the original does not have an entry for Bogo-Sort, so
> there you go.)
>
> http://catb.org/jargon/html/B/bogo-sort.html
>
> It is highly educational and entertaining to read these old repositories of
> wordplay and politics. For instance, you probably have always frobbed things
> (it's part of the hacker DNA), but now you can understand the distinction
> between frobbing, twiddling, and tweaking, and this might actually come in
> handy at some point. See also the story about Magic in the Appendix.
>
>
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Brian Fisher]

Boost is C++.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:42 AM, Peter Gebauer <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hey there!
>
> There are some alternatives, some like automatic generation like Swig,
> Boost, etc, some like Pyrex, I prefer to write Python extensions in C using
> the standard Python C-implementation API. PyGame, being written in C, is
> also easy to access.
> As for C++, I don't know of any specific C++ API's, but then again I don't
> use C++ at all so I haven't looked.
> There's also the option of doing the reverse scenario, embedding instead of
> extending, you'll have to see what fits your project best.
>
> /Peter
>
> On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 08:29, Matt Pearson wrote:
> > i agree, does the wrapper have a name, or is it on the python/pygame
> sites
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM, René Dudfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > yeah, best to use both!  Use each tool where it is best at - and get
> > > best of both worlds!
> > >
> > > cu,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Peter Gebauer
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  > Hi guys!
> > > >
> > > > I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code
> > > benefits
> > > > (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in
> Python,
> > > or
> > > > at least that is my experience. :)
> > > > Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to
> > > compile
> > > > C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
> > > >
> > > > On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
> > > >> Patrick Mullen wrote:
> > > >>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > >  The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
> > >  parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> > > >> the best form of optimization!
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Greg
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[Patrick Atambo]

For most libraries you could use Ctypes.

On 11/6/08, Peter Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey there!
>
> There are some alternatives, some like automatic generation like Swig,
> Boost, etc, some like Pyrex, I prefer to write Python extensions in C using
> the standard Python C-implementation API. PyGame, being written in C, is
> also easy to access.
> As for C++, I don't know of any specific C++ API's, but then again I don't
> use C++ at all so I haven't looked.
> There's also the option of doing the reverse scenario, embedding instead of
> extending, you'll have to see what fits your project best.
>
>
> /Peter
>
>
> On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 08:29, Matt Pearson wrote:
> > i agree, does the wrapper have a name, or is it on the python/pygame
> sites
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM, René Dudfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > yeah, best to use both!  Use each tool where it is best at - and get
> > > best of both worlds!
> > >
> > > cu,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Peter Gebauer
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  > Hi guys!
> > > >
> > > > I agree, just wanted to add that many iterations over trivial code
> > > benefits
> > > > (speed-wise) tremendously from being written in C and accessed in
> Python,
> > > or
> > > > at least that is my experience. :)
> > > > Guess you have to weigh it against the added complexity of having to
> > > compile
> > > > C code, maybe for mulitple platforms, etc.
> > > >
> > > > On 2008-11-05 (Wed) 13:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
> > > >> Patrick Mullen wrote:
> > > >>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing <
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > >  The only way to improve speed is to re-code the cpu-intensive
> > >  parts using something more efficent, such as C or Pyrex.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Or, of course, write better python code if possible in those parts.
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> > > >> the best form of optimization!
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Greg
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
>

Re: [pygame] Linux binaries

[yanom @linuxmail.org]

ahhh... i see
It's like the Rube Goldberg machines of the computer world.
> - Original Message -
> From: "James Paige" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: pygame-users@seul.org
> Subject: Re: [pygame] Linux binaries
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:03:36 -0800
> 
> 
> Here is a nice bogosort
> http://www.siafoo.net/algorithm/5
> 
> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 08:48:04AM +0800, yanom @linuxmail.org wrote:
> > What's Bogosort?
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Charlie Nolan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: pygame-users@seul.org
> > > Subject: Re: [pygame] Linux binaries
> > > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:06:39 -0600
> > > > > > Yes, certainly -- finding a better algorithm is always
> > > > the best form of optimization!
> > > > Yup.  Even a supercomputer is going to choke if you feed it Bogosort.
> >
> > >
> >
> >
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