Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN]

thanks a lot!!!

very helpfull!!! i will get the desired appeareance any computer this 
way


thanks paul!!

Juan


From: Paul Malherbe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?
Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 10:50:55 +0200

JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN wrote:
> hi you guys,
>
> no doubt...i will follow your instructions and i will just change the
> theme...i did find some icons and figures wich are going to help me
> too...
>
> thanks for your patience, and i am sorry for being so insistent about
> this issue...
>
> Regards :-)
>
> Juan
>
>
>
Hi Juan

I have written a small routine to show you that you can change the theme
for your application.

This only changes the theme of your application and not the system.


I hope it helps.

regards, Paul

#!/usr/bin/python

import os,sys
import pygtk
#This is needed for py2exe
if sys.platform != "win32": pygtk.require("2.0")
import gtk

window = gtk.Window()
window.connect("destroy", gtk.main_quit)

# Set the theme you want for your application
thmdir = gtk.rc_get_theme_dir()
theme = os.path.join(thmdir, "Grand-Canyon", "gtk-2.0", "gtkrc")
if os.path.exists(theme): style = "include '%s'\n" % theme
else: style = ""

# Here you can change any of the individual widget characteristics
# as well as default fonts, colours etc.
style = style + """
style "mystyle"
{
  font_name = "%s"
  GtkWidget::interior_focus = 1
}
widget "*" style "mystyle"

style "mymenu"
{
  font_name = "%s"
}
widget "*Menu*" style "mymenu"
""" % ("Courier 10", "Arial 10")

# Apply this theme to your app
gtk.rc_parse_string(style)

button = gtk.Button(theme)
button.connect("clicked", gtk.main_quit)
window.add(button)
window.show_all()
gtk.main()



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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Andrew Conkling]

On 5/5/06, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

hi you guys,

no doubt...i will follow your instructions and i will just change the
theme...i did find some icons and figures wich are going to help me too...

thanks for your patience, and i am sorry for being so insistent about this
issue...


No need to apologize; this has been a good discussion!
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[baiju m]

On 5/5/06, Osmo Salomaa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

to, 2006-05-04 kello 18:27 +, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN kirjoitti:
> Steve McClure wrote:
>
> >The theme is specific to the desktop and varies with each
> >installation.
>
> then, how can i maintain the nice looking independently of the
> system/installation my code is running on??

Sorry for not answering your actual question, but what is the compelling
need that you have for a theme specific to your application? Why should
you as a developer dictate how different widgets look to the user? Why
not let each user decide what looks "nice"?

The first problem is that you break consistency. People like their
themes and the fact that the same widgets look the same in all apps.
Making your app look different will make it look ugly and most
importantly it will take the user a longer time to get used to. At least
initially different style widgets will just cause confusion.

The second problem is whether you're qualified to design a theme that
will work for all users. Think for example visually impaired users who
might like to use themes with large widgets, great contrasts and
noticeable hover effects. How do you take them into account? Would they
as well be forced to use the same theme?


Good points :)

I have seen some "Enterprise" apps which looks like aliens :)

So I think these enterprise peoples never thinks about usability or
accessibility.
Only common desktop app developers bother about such kind of things.
In fact It is much easier to develop a "native looking" app than
"alien looking" app.

Regards,
Baiju M
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN]

hi you guys,

no doubt...i will follow your instructions and i will just change the 
theme...i did find some icons and figures wich are going to help me too...


thanks for your patience, and i am sorry for being so insistent about this 
issue...


Regards :-)

Juan


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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Greg Ewing]

JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN wrote:

i just not like the color/shape/etc of the default pygtk installation i 
want to improve it and keep it consistent independently of the 
system/installation my code is running on...no matter the system i run 
the code on or the theme is installed, i want the nice looking to remain 
intact...how is it possible?


If this is for your own use, and you like a particular style,
why wouldn't you want it applied to your other apps as well?

If this is for others to use, you shouldn't be trying to force
your preferences on them. Provide your custom theme as an
option if you want, but give them the choice of installing
it themselves if they like it.

--
Greg
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Tony Nelson]

At 6:27 PM + 5/4/06, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN wrote:
>Steve McClure wrote:
>
>>The theme is specific to the desktop and varies with each
>>installation.
>
>then, how can i maintain the nice looking independently of the
>system/installation my code is running on??
>
>>Do you not like the color of your text input
>>boxes, or do you like rounded buttons versus squarish buttons.  Or do
>>you need a widget that doesn't function at all like any other out there?
>
>i just not like the color/shape/etc of the default pygtk installation i want
>to improve it and keep it consistent independently of the
>system/installation my code is running on...no matter the system i run the
>code on or the theme is installed, i want the nice looking to remain
>intact...how is it possible?
>
>Sorry for being so insistent, but this point is very important for my
>application
>i apprettiate any help or suggestion...

You are fighting the intent of GTK, and you will have difficulty.  The best
suggestion I've seen is to ship a self-contained app with it's own GTK and
theme.  On MSWindows, this should be easy enough (it's probably what you'd
do anyway), and MSWindows users won't mind a goofy looking app.

There are good reasons for overriding themes:  to show additional state to
the user, or to catagorize or group related controls.  Just be careful that
what you do will survive in other themes and will work for the visually
impaired (even the colorblind).

TonyN.:'   
  '  
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Osmo Salomaa]

to, 2006-05-04 kello 18:27 +, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN kirjoitti:
> Steve McClure wrote:
> 
> >The theme is specific to the desktop and varies with each
> >installation.
> 
> then, how can i maintain the nice looking independently of the 
> system/installation my code is running on??

Sorry for not answering your actual question, but what is the compelling
need that you have for a theme specific to your application? Why should
you as a developer dictate how different widgets look to the user? Why
not let each user decide what looks "nice"?

The first problem is that you break consistency. People like their
themes and the fact that the same widgets look the same in all apps.
Making your app look different will make it look ugly and most
importantly it will take the user a longer time to get used to. At least
initially different style widgets will just cause confusion.

The second problem is whether you're qualified to design a theme that
will work for all users. Think for example visually impaired users who
might like to use themes with large widgets, great contrasts and
noticeable hover effects. How do you take them into account? Would they
as well be forced to use the same theme?

-- 
Osmo Salomaa

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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN]

Steve McClure wrote:


The theme is specific to the desktop and varies with each
installation.


then, how can i maintain the nice looking independently of the 
system/installation my code is running on??



Do you not like the color of your text input
boxes, or do you like rounded buttons versus squarish buttons.  Or do
you need a widget that doesn't function at all like any other out there?


i just not like the color/shape/etc of the default pygtk installation i want 
to improve it and keep it consistent independently of the 
system/installation my code is running on...no matter the system i run the 
code on or the theme is installed, i want the nice looking to remain 
intact...how is it possible?


Sorry for being so insistent, but this point is very important for my 
application

i apprettiate any help or suggestion...

Regards
Juan


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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Steve McClure]

On Thu, 2006-05-04 at 16:12 +, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN wrote:
> Andrew Conkling wrote:
> 
> >Then you need to install a good theme. :)  Your distro, assuming you're 
> >using a major one, should >come with a good selection already.
> 
> I am running Suse 10.0
> 
> Thomas Mills wrote:
> >In general, the theme philosophy is meant to give users control over the 
> >appearance of >applications on their computer and to ensure a consistent 
> >look across the board. That is, normally, >the application writer should 
> >never have to think about themes at all -- across the board, all GTK 
> > >applications will have the same look for dialogs, text entries, buttons, 
> >etc.
> 
> So, my pygtk application as well as my Desktop Environment (Open_Office, 
> Konqueror, etc) is going to be graphically improved depending on the theme 
> installed??  What if y only want to improve my application but not the whole 
> environment??  I am really interested on a GTK theme called VistaBut, once 
> installed on my computer is going to change the whole environment or only my 
> pygtk applications?, what happens if then I decide to create a .exe by using 

The whole environment.

> py2exe and run the application in a windows system???  Is the theme (and all 
> the nice looking) lost as a result of this??

Yes. The theme is specific to the desktop and varies with each
installation.

> 
> Thomas Mills wrote:
> >1. If you need a widget that does not exist in other applications, you need
> >to draw it yourself and can control the look of it.
> >2. If for some reason the look of your application is very specialized... 
> >in
> >that case, you should be able to do everything with a custom theme for your
> >app as others have suggested.
> 
> Do you suggest to learn how to draw widgets and figures with cairo if  a 
> special looking is required?

You need to differentiate between special look and special behavior. It
is usually best to stick with the widgets in the toolkit.  Not only do
you get the benefit of short development time and fully tested widgets
but applications will work in similar manners and the user won't be
learning a special behavior for your individual application.

> 
> Thomas Mills wrote:
> >It sounds like you may have an unusual application in mind -- if you
> >can specify precisely what it is you're trying to customize the look of,
> >you'll be able to get some more specific, useful help.
> 
> I am developing a telecommunications oriented application, it is an 
> alternative designed on Open Code to the  Pathloss proprietary tool. After 
> that I will designed an application oriented to the oil industry

That really doesn't help too much, that is, the description isn't
precise enough.  e.g. Do you not like the color of your text input
boxes, or do you like rounded buttons versus squarish buttons.  Or do
you need a widget that doesn't function at all like any other out there?

If you are just tweaking the look of your particular application (the
former of the above scenarios), that can be done.  Currently I'm stuck
on a very old platform with Gtk 1.2 and PyGtk 0.6.9 but I'm sure the
generalities still apply. My particular application is a management
system for our DynaCenter product suite. The application is used in
large data centers or NOCs for systems management. When we do demos for
large customers we sometimes will "brand" the user interface to give the
customer a better impression of how we can customize the application.
To do that I create a resource file that is tied to the application by
using gtk.rc_parse() method.  As an example, part of the RC file for a
demo for IBM might look like this:

===
style "IBM_bg"
{
bg[NORMAL] = "#4169e1"
bg[PRELIGHT] = "#3A5FCD"
bg[ACTIVE] = "#3a5fcd"
bg[INSENSITIVE] = "#4876ff"
#bg[SELECTED] = "#00659C"
}

style "IBM_colors" = "IBM_bg"
{
fg[NORMAL] = "#FF"
base[NORMAL] = "#FF"
text[NORMAL] = "#4169e1"
fg[PRELIGHT] = "#FF"
fg[ACTIVE] = "#FF"
fg[INSENSITIVE] = "#8b"
}

# and further down in the file

widget "*" style "IBM_colors"
===

Then our application would use a color scheme (the full file requires a
lot more changes as you will find out...) that looks like the customers
other in house enterprise applications.

> 
> 
> thanks for your answers
> 
> Juan
> 
> 
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Johan Dahlin]

JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN wrote:
> Andrew Conkling wrote:
> 
>> Then you need to install a good theme. :)  Your distro, assuming
>> you're using a major one, should >come with a good selection already.
> 
> I am running Suse 10.0
> 
> Thomas Mills wrote:
>> In general, the theme philosophy is meant to give users control over
>> the appearance of >applications on their computer and to ensure a
>> consistent look across the board. That is, normally, >the application
>> writer should never have to think about themes at all -- across the
>> board, all GTK >applications will have the same look for dialogs, text
>> entries, buttons, etc.
> 
> So, my pygtk application as well as my Desktop Environment (Open_Office,
> Konqueror, etc) is going to be graphically improved depending on the
> theme installed??  What if y only want to improve my application but not
> the whole environment??  I am really interested on a GTK theme called
> VistaBut, once installed on my computer is going to change the whole
> environment or only my pygtk applications?, what happens if then I
> decide to create a .exe by using py2exe and run the application in a
> windows system???  Is the theme (and all the nice looking) lost as a
> result of this??

WingIDE is doing exactly that, so it is possible.

You can basically do anything with gtk themes or engines.
The windows theme engine for gtk+ is getting pretty good these days, gtk+
applications looks like real native windows applications.
However, that's not what you want, but it's just pointing out what's possible.

-- 
Johan Dahlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Async Open Source
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN]

Andrew Conkling wrote:

Then you need to install a good theme. :)  Your distro, assuming you're 
using a major one, should >come with a good selection already.


I am running Suse 10.0

Thomas Mills wrote:
In general, the theme philosophy is meant to give users control over the 
appearance of >applications on their computer and to ensure a consistent 
look across the board. That is, normally, >the application writer should 
never have to think about themes at all -- across the board, all GTK 
>applications will have the same look for dialogs, text entries, buttons, 
etc.


So, my pygtk application as well as my Desktop Environment (Open_Office, 
Konqueror, etc) is going to be graphically improved depending on the theme 
installed??  What if y only want to improve my application but not the whole 
environment??  I am really interested on a GTK theme called VistaBut, once 
installed on my computer is going to change the whole environment or only my 
pygtk applications?, what happens if then I decide to create a .exe by using 
py2exe and run the application in a windows system???  Is the theme (and all 
the nice looking) lost as a result of this??


Thomas Mills wrote:

1. If you need a widget that does not exist in other applications, you need
to draw it yourself and can control the look of it.
2. If for some reason the look of your application is very specialized... 
in

that case, you should be able to do everything with a custom theme for your
app as others have suggested.


Do you suggest to learn how to draw widgets and figures with cairo if  a 
special looking is required?


Thomas Mills wrote:

It sounds like you may have an unusual application in mind -- if you
can specify precisely what it is you're trying to customize the look of,
you'll be able to get some more specific, useful help.


I am developing a telecommunications oriented application, it is an 
alternative designed on Open Code to the  Pathloss proprietary tool. After 
that I will designed an application oriented to the oil industry



thanks for your answers

Juan


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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Johan Dahlin]

Greg Ewing skrev:

Thomas Mills Hinkle wrote:

1. If you need a widget that does not exist in other applications, 
you need to draw it yourself and can control the look of it.


Even then, you should probably use the facilities of
the theme mechanism wherever possible to make your
widget follow the current theme somewhat. The Style
object attached to a widget has methods for drawing
lines, boxes, etc. in a way that matches the current
style.

That depends on the widget. In some cases you don't need to do any drawing.
You can create widgets which are composed by other widgets.
In kiwi[1] there are quite a few of them:

* KiwiEntry: a Entry subclass with icon and mask support
* ComboEntry:
  KiwiEntry with entry completion + ToggleButton with a Arrow inside and
  a popup with results
* IconEntry: A mixin which adds an icon to the left or the right on an 
entry.

* HyperLink: EventBox with a label, that is clickable
* ObjectList: ScrolledWindow with a TreeView (and TreeViewColumn + 
TreeModel)

* SelectableBox: HBox/VBox which has a border around one child

The only one of them which does additional drawing is IconEntry, which 
resizes the

two windows in an entry, adds a new one where a pixbuf can be drawn.

Johan

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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Greg Ewing]

Thomas Mills Hinkle wrote:

1. If you need a widget that does not exist in other applications, you 
need to draw it yourself and can control the look of it.


Even then, you should probably use the facilities of
the theme mechanism wherever possible to make your
widget follow the current theme somewhat. The Style
object attached to a widget has methods for drawing
lines, boxes, etc. in a way that matches the current
style.

--
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University of Canterbury,  | Carpe post meridiam! |
Christchurch, New Zealand  | (I'm not a morning person.)  |
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  +--+
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Thomas Mills Hinkle]

..should i install a "theme" or do i have to do all the drawingit requires by using cairo??...what i really need is better appeareance
widgets...In general, the theme philosophy is meant to give users control over the appearance of applications on their computer and to ensure a consistent look across the board. That is, normally, the application writer should never have to think about themes at all -- across the board, all GTK applications will have the same look for dialogs, text entries, buttons, etc. Any customization you do of the look of your app on the application level breaks consistency with other apps and is therefore a bad thing.
In my opinion, the only clear exceptions to this would be the following:1. If you need a widget that does not exist in other applications, you need to draw it yourself and can control the look of it.2. If for some reason the look of your application is very specialized... in that case, you should be able to do everything with a custom theme for your app as others have suggested.
In general, for most applications, you don't want to be implementing all kinds of special looks for your app -- you want your app to look like users expect. It sounds like you may have an unusual application in mind -- if you can specify precisely what it is you're trying to customize the look of, you'll be able to get some more specific, useful help.
Tom
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Andrew Conkling]

On 5/3/06, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

well, i entered at http://art.gnome.org there is a lot of "themes" them all
look great!!...however i still don´t understand the "theme" philosophy.

It seems a collection of widgets/icons which are going to help you develop
the GUI by installing them somwhere in you computer?? am i rigth??


This may help; it gives an overview of themes in general:
http://developer.gnome.org/arch/gtk/themes.html


On the other hand i entered at http://cairographics.org/pycairo which
explains some drawing, but i still don´t understand how to improve mi
application...should i install a "theme" or do i have to do all the drawing
it requires by using cairo??...what i really need is better appeareance
widgets...


Then you need to install a good theme. :)  Your distro, assuming
you're using a major one, should come with a good selection already. 
See your environment's instructions for changing them, or if you're

just running a WM, see the link above. :)

The end result is this: you'll implement (for example) a button.  You
won't tell it how to look; you'll just tell it that it goes in a
frame, in a gtk.Notebook, in a window.  When you run your shiny new
PyGTK+ app, GTK+ will draw it for whatever your theme is.  When *I*
run it, it will draw for whatever my theme is (Clearlooks, in this
case).

This makes the programming much easier, because the hard work (mostly)
is done.  You just have to design, place, and act on the widgets.  It
also makes everything look better and more unified.  As an opposing
example, take MS Windows/Office: XP looks different than 2000, they're
not even (easily) themeable, and each version of Office looks
different than the last, and different from the rest of Windows.

I hope this helps to clarify; keep asking questions!

Cheers,
Andrew
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN]

Baiju wrote:


I think you will be required to create special theme for your application.
Have a http://art.gnome.org for examples.

You can change Border, Icons, colors of widgets etc.

May be you will be rquired to look at pycairo (now dependency/part of
pygtk) for 2D graphics.


well, i entered at http://art.gnome.org there is a lot of "themes" them all 
look great!!...however i still don´t understand the "theme" philosophy.


It seems a collection of widgets/icons which are going to help you develop 
the GUI by installing them somwhere in you computer?? am i rigth??


On the other hand i entered at http://cairographics.org/pycairo which 
explains some drawing, but i still don´t understand how to improve mi 
application...should i install a "theme" or do i have to do all the drawing 
it requires by using cairo??...what i really need is better appeareance 
widgets...


I am sorry for all this boring questions but this is becoming really 
confusing and i still do not understand the pylosophy...


I strongly appretiatte your help
Regards
Juan


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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN]

andrew wrote:


If you're using the default theme, might I suggest you try something
like Clearlooks or Industrial?  Beyond that, ask more questions and
make them specific. ;)


i did download Clearlooks and having some trouble installinghowever i 
didn´t see any tutorial in the download page: 
http://clearlooks.sourceforge.net/ does the widgets get the theme 
appeareance just after installing the package or is it nessesary any 
extraconfiguration/commands??


On the other hand, i do assume it is possible to create effects on widgets 
by catching signals on them and connecting this signals to handlers that 
change their color, size, appeareance, etc...


By the way, i didn´t find the "Industrial" theme download page...any related 
to oil industry??


thanks for your answers
Juan


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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[baiju m]

On 5/3/06, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


however could any of
you suggest any tutorial to improve my application appearance.


I think you will be required to create special theme for your application.
Have a http://art.gnome.org for examples.

You can change Border, Icons, colors of widgets etc.

May be you will be rquired to look at pycairo (now dependency/part of
pygtk) for 2D graphics.

--
Baiju M
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Re: [pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[Andrew Conkling]

On 5/3/06, JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I am not interested to create any controversy, but to get the best advice. I
am developping my application in pygtk, it has been not an easy task :) but
i have come a long way.


Once you get over the learning curve, you can really do some cool
stuff.  The hard part is over!


I would really like to add some "vitality" to my application, but i
wonder...is it possible with pygtk??


GTK+ is the best-looking toolkit that I've seen.  Normally, the
appearance of the widgets is handled by the theme.  Overriding them is
possible (though I couldn't tell you offhand how to do it) but is
generally not a good idea.

If you're using the default theme, might I suggest you try something
like Clearlooks or Industrial?  Beyond that, ask more questions and
make them specific. ;)

Hope this helps,
Andrew
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[pygtk] Improving pygtk appearance, or moving to wxPython?

[JUAN ERNESTO FLORES BELTRAN]

Hi you all,

I am not interested to create any controversy, but to get the best advice. I 
am developping my application in pygtk, it has been not an easy task :) but 
i have come a long way. However i have realized it seems preety simple, not 
colored, all the widgets with the same color inside a green boring window 
!!!


i have not found any tutorial wich teach how to implement effects to the 
widgets, improve their appearance add color to the widgets, cursor movement 
effects or 3D effects...


I would really like to add some "vitality" to my application, but i 
wonder...is it possible with pygtk??. I have followed the instructions in 
this tutorial:


http://www.moeraki.com/pygtktutorial/pygtk2tutorial/

Wich i consider is an excellent introduction to pygtk, however could any of 
you suggest any tutorial to improve my application appearance. On the other 
hand i wonder whether i must move to wxPython to fill my needs?


Thanks for your answers.
Juan


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