Re: Pips for python2 and python3

[Tim Johnson]

On 3/21/21 5:44 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote:

python3 -m pip install

Got it. Thanks a lot.

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Re: Pips for python2 and python3

[Tim Johnson]

On 3/21/21 5:14 PM, MRAB wrote:

Tn 2021-03-21 23:13, Tim Johnson wrote:

Using ubuntu 20.04 as a recent install
with python3 (3.8.5) which was installed as part of the
original distribution install
and
python2 (2.7.18) that has been installed using apt.

I have a large amount of utilities written in python2 which I need to
maintain
until I convert that code to python3

I see numerous caveats regarding the installing of pips for both these
versions.

I would welcome advice on how to proceed which could very well be
accomplished
by links to relevant discussions or documentation.


I'd suggest using the pip module:

python2 -m pip

and:

python3 -m pip

Understood. In addition, I 'm pretty sure that all I need to do is
copy dist-utils from my old machine to the new one. The python2
versions of the two machines are very close.

thank you MRAB

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Pips for python2 and python3

[Tim Johnson]

Using ubuntu 20.04 as a recent install
with python3 (3.8.5) which was installed as part of the
original distribution install
and
python2 (2.7.18) that has been installed using apt.

I have a large amount of utilities written in python2 which I need to 
maintain

until I convert that code to python3

I see numerous caveats regarding the installing of pips for both these 
versions.


I would welcome advice on how to proceed which could very well be 
accomplished

by links to relevant discussions or documentation.

thanks
--

Tim
tj49.com

--
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Re: ModuleNotFoundError with click module

[Tim Johnson]

On 12/1/19 11:46 PM, Peter Otten wrote:

Tim Johnson wrote:


OK. Now I have

/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/Click-7.0.dist-info/

which holds the following files:

INSTALLER  LICENSE.txt  METADATA  RECORD  top_level.txt  WHEEL

I haven't a clue as to how to proceed! Never seen this before ...

Just leave it alone ;)


Furthermore, google is offering me nothing conclusive.

Where to go from here!

P.S. It looks like that directory is sort of a stub; regardless of my
take on it I am no longer having the ModuleNotFoundError.

Once you can import it you can find the actual module or package with

$ /usr/bin/python3.7 -c 'import click; print(click.__file__)'

In this case it's a package, so you'll probably see (something like)

/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/click/__init__.py

rather than

/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/click.py
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/


Good Explanation. Thanks again Peter.  new since python 1.5 

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Re: ModuleNotFoundError with click module

[Tim Johnson]

On 12/1/19 3:41 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:


On 12/1/19 12:26 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

Tim Johnson wrote:


Using linux ubuntu 16.04 with bash shell.
Am retired python programmer, but not terribly current.
I have moderate bash experience.

When trying to install pgadmin4 via apt I get the following error
traceback when pgadmin4 is invoked:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "setup.py", line 17, in 
  from pgadmin.model import db, User, Version, ServerGroup, Server, \
  File "/usr/share/pgadmin4/web/pgadmin/__init__.py", line 19, in 

  from flask import Flask, abort, request, current_app, session, 
url_for

  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/__init__.py", line
21, in 
  from .app import Flask
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/app.py", line 34,
in 
  from . import cli
File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/cli.py", line 25, in

import click
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'click'


If I invoke python3 (/usr/local/bin/python3), version 3.7.2 and invoke
  >>> import click
click is imported successfully.

In this invocation, sys.path is:
['', '/usr/local/lib/python37.zip', '/usr/local/lib/python3.7',
'/usr/local/lib/python3.7/lib-dynload',
'/home/tim/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages',
'/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages']

$PYTHONPATH is empty when the bash shell is invoked

$PATH as follows:

/home/tim/bin:/home/tim/.local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/snap/bin 


click.py can be found at
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/pipenv/patched/piptools/
in turn click.py imports click, presumably as the package,
which appears to be at
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/pipenv/vendor/click

Any number of settings of PYTHONPATH to the various paths above has
failed to resolve the ModuleNotFoundError
Same issues with attempting install from a virtual environment.

Any help will be appreciated.
thanks
tim

I'm too lazy to look into the details of your paths -- I'd just make 
sure
that click is installed with the same interpreter and user as 
pgadmin4, e.

g. globally

$ sudo /usr/local/bin/python3 -m pip install click
$ sudo /usr/local/bin/python3 path/to/setup.py install  # or whatever it
takes to install pgadmin4


OK. Now I have

/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/Click-7.0.dist-info/

which holds the following files:

INSTALLER  LICENSE.txt  METADATA  RECORD  top_level.txt  WHEEL

I haven't a clue as to how to proceed! Never seen this before ...

Furthermore, google is offering me nothing conclusive.

Where to go from here!


P.S. It looks like that directory is sort of a stub; regardless of my 
take on it I am no longer having the ModuleNotFoundError.


Peter has a been a great help. Couldn't have done it without him.

cheers

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Re: ModuleNotFoundError with click module

[Tim Johnson]

On 12/1/19 12:26 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

Tim Johnson wrote:


Using linux ubuntu 16.04 with bash shell.
Am retired python programmer, but not terribly current.
I have moderate bash experience.

When trying to install pgadmin4 via apt I get the following error
traceback when pgadmin4 is invoked:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "setup.py", line 17, in 
  from pgadmin.model import db, User, Version, ServerGroup, Server, \
  File "/usr/share/pgadmin4/web/pgadmin/__init__.py", line 19, in 
  from flask import Flask, abort, request, current_app, session, url_for
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/__init__.py", line
21, in 
  from .app import Flask
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/app.py", line 34,
in 
  from . import cli
File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/cli.py", line 25, in

import click
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'click'


If I invoke python3 (/usr/local/bin/python3), version 3.7.2 and invoke
  >>> import click
click is imported successfully.

In this invocation, sys.path is:
['', '/usr/local/lib/python37.zip', '/usr/local/lib/python3.7',
'/usr/local/lib/python3.7/lib-dynload',
'/home/tim/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages',
'/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages']

$PYTHONPATH is empty when the bash shell is invoked

$PATH as follows:


/home/tim/bin:/home/tim/.local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/snap/bin

click.py can be found at
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/pipenv/patched/piptools/
in turn click.py imports click, presumably as the package,
which appears to be at
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/pipenv/vendor/click

Any number of settings of PYTHONPATH to the various paths above has
failed to resolve the ModuleNotFoundError
Same issues with attempting install from a virtual environment.

Any help will be appreciated.
thanks
tim


I'm too lazy to look into the details of your paths -- I'd just make sure
that click is installed with the same interpreter and user as pgadmin4, e.
g. globally

$ sudo /usr/local/bin/python3 -m pip install click
$ sudo /usr/local/bin/python3 path/to/setup.py install  # or whatever it
takes to install pgadmin4


OK. Now I have

/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/Click-7.0.dist-info/

which holds the following files:

INSTALLER  LICENSE.txt  METADATA  RECORD  top_level.txt  WHEEL

I haven't a clue as to how to proceed! Never seen this before ...

Furthermore, google is offering me nothing conclusive.

Where to go from here!


--
Tim
tj49.com

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Re: ModuleNotFoundError with click module

[Tim Johnson]

On 12/1/19 12:26 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

Tim Johnson wrote:


Using linux ubuntu 16.04 with bash shell.
Am retired python programmer, but not terribly current.
I have moderate bash experience.

When trying to install pgadmin4 via apt I get the following error
traceback when pgadmin4 is invoked:

Traceback (most recent call last):

snipped ...

File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/cli.py", line 25, in

import click
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'click'


If I invoke python3 (/usr/local/bin/python3), version 3.7.2 and invoke
  >>> import click
click is imported successfully.

...
I'm too lazy to look into the details of your paths -- I'd just make sure
that click is installed with the same interpreter and user as pgadmin4, e.
g. globally

$ sudo /usr/local/bin/python3 -m pip install click
$ sudo /usr/local/bin/python3 path/to/setup.py install  # or whatever it
takes to install pgadmin4
Like I said, I'm not current. Yikes. Now I have 
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/clic-0.1.3.dist-info/


After I have my coffee I will attempt to proceed from there with 
whatever it takes to finalize


thanks

--
Tim
tj49.com

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ModuleNotFoundError with click module

[Tim Johnson]

Using linux ubuntu 16.04 with bash shell.
Am retired python programmer, but not terribly current.
I have moderate bash experience.

When trying to install pgadmin4 via apt I get the following error traceback
when pgadmin4 is invoked:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "setup.py", line 17, in 
    from pgadmin.model import db, User, Version, ServerGroup, Server, \
  File "/usr/share/pgadmin4/web/pgadmin/__init__.py", line 19, in 
    from flask import Flask, abort, request, current_app, session, url_for
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/__init__.py", line 
21, in 

    from .app import Flask
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/app.py", line 34, 
in 

    from . import cli
File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/flask/cli.py", line 25, in 


import click
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'click'


If I invoke python3 (/usr/local/bin/python3), version 3.7.2 and invoke
>>> import click
click is imported successfully.

In this invocation, sys.path is:
['', '/usr/local/lib/python37.zip', '/usr/local/lib/python3.7',
'/usr/local/lib/python3.7/lib-dynload',
'/home/tim/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages',
'/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages']

$PYTHONPATH is empty when the bash shell is invoked

$PATH as follows:
/home/tim/bin:/home/tim/.local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/snap/bin

click.py can be found at 
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/pipenv/patched/piptools/

in turn click.py imports click, presumably as the package,
which appears to be at 
/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/pipenv/vendor/click


Any number of settings of PYTHONPATH to the various paths above has 
failed to resolve the ModuleNotFoundError

Same issues with attempting install from a virtual environment.

Any help will be appreciated.
thanks
tim

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Re: Your IDE's?

[Tim Johnson]

* Rich Shepard  [190326 15:19]:
> On 2019-03-25 21:38, John Doe wrote:
> 
> > What is your favorite Python IDE?
> 
> Emacs on Slackware.

  I'm an old Slacker, but got lazy and even older, so now use
  ubuntu.
  
  I also use emacs to which I have added evil and elpy; and further
  customized with plenty of my own elisp code. They won't take any
  of that away unless they pry it from my cold, dead fingers, but
  that's just me. :)
  
  I wouldn't wish emacs or vim on anyone who didn't feel that the
  learning curve was worth it.

  MTCW
-- 
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http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Managing pipenv virtualenvs

[Tim Johnson]

* Test Bot  [190326 15:44]:
> If the chapters are not contiguous then I can't find a reason to delete
> them (previous venv). Moreover it would be better practice to keep separate
> venv and not to use a single venv for multiple codebase. Highly discouraged
> should be to use the systemwide interpreter.
> 
> Moreover the whole idea of using pipenv/pip is to make the venv easy to
> recreate. That being said I would focus more on whether my
> pipfile/requirements.txt is maintained properly or not. If it is then
> spinning up the same venv is an easy task.
 
  thanks again, Test Bot ...

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 4:21 AM Tim Johnson  wrote:
> 
> > * Test Bot  [190326 14:18]:
> > > Nothing much i think. If you are properly managing dependencies for each
> > > venv, then each new venv should have the same state as the previous one
> >   Good to hear
> >
> > > along with some extra dependencies for each new chapter (haven't gone
> > > through the specific book, but I am assuming that in the book, every
> > > chapter builds on the previous one).
> >   The author's source code is on github, so I downloaded all of it
> >   for my edification.
> >
> >   It appears that consecutive chapters do not always build on the
> >   following, i.e. have the previous chapter files.
> >
> >   I guess I will find out why ...
> >   thank you
> > > On a personal note it sounds strange why the author wants to have
> > different
> > > venv's for each chapter.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 3:30 AM Tim Johnson  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm on ubuntu 16.04
> > > >
> > > > using pipenv for the "Django for Beginners..." tutorial book.
> > > >
> > > > each chapter instructs me to create a new virtual environment with a
> > > > folder under ~/.local/share/virtualenvs
> > > >
> > > > folders are named with the project name followed by an hyphen and a
> > > > brief codified string.
> > > > examples
> > > >  helloworld-_e28Oloi
> > > >  pages-Du4qJjUr
> > > >
> > > > What would happen if I deleted the first folder, which was created
> > > > in a previous chapter?
> > > >
> > > > ... trying to minimize my SSD real estate.
> > > > thanks
> > > > --
> > > > Tim Johnson
> > > > http://www.tj49.com
> > > > --
> > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > >
> > > --
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> > --
> > Tim Johnson
> > http://www.tj49.com
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
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http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Managing pipenv virtualenvs

[Tim Johnson]

* Test Bot  [190326 14:18]:
> Nothing much i think. If you are properly managing dependencies for each
> venv, then each new venv should have the same state as the previous one
  Good to hear

> along with some extra dependencies for each new chapter (haven't gone
> through the specific book, but I am assuming that in the book, every
> chapter builds on the previous one).
  The author's source code is on github, so I downloaded all of it
  for my edification.

  It appears that consecutive chapters do not always build on the
  following, i.e. have the previous chapter files.

  I guess I will find out why ...
  thank you
> On a personal note it sounds strange why the author wants to have different
> venv's for each chapter.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 3:30 AM Tim Johnson  wrote:
> 
> > I'm on ubuntu 16.04
> >
> > using pipenv for the "Django for Beginners..." tutorial book.
> >
> > each chapter instructs me to create a new virtual environment with a
> > folder under ~/.local/share/virtualenvs
> >
> > folders are named with the project name followed by an hyphen and a
> > brief codified string.
> > examples
> >  helloworld-_e28Oloi
> >  pages-Du4qJjUr
> >
> > What would happen if I deleted the first folder, which was created
> > in a previous chapter?
> >
> > ... trying to minimize my SSD real estate.
> > thanks
> > --
> > Tim Johnson
> > http://www.tj49.com
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Tim Johnson
http://www.tj49.com
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Managing pipenv virtualenvs

[Tim Johnson]

I'm on ubuntu 16.04

using pipenv for the "Django for Beginners..." tutorial book.

each chapter instructs me to create a new virtual environment with a
folder under ~/.local/share/virtualenvs

folders are named with the project name followed by an hyphen and a
brief codified string.
examples
 helloworld-_e28Oloi
 pages-Du4qJjUr

What would happen if I deleted the first folder, which was created
in a previous chapter?

... trying to minimize my SSD real estate. 
thanks
-- 
Tim Johnson
http://www.tj49.com
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Determining latest stable version for download

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson  [190320 10:46]:
> Some time in the near future I will want to install the latest
> current stable version of python on a remote server. I anticipate
> that I will either use wget from the server shell or download to my
> workstation and transfer via FTP. I will need source to compile.
> 
> I see python source at https://www.python.org/ftp/python/.
> 
> How do I determine the following?
> 1) Latest current stable version of python 3*
> 2) Correct tarfile for linux - at this time I assume it will be
>linux centOS
  Thanks for the constructive replies. I'll attempt a compile from
  source after this weekend.
  I'll use these instructions:
  https://my.hostmonster.com/hosting/help/python-install
  as a guide and post results under a topic more appropriate to my
  goal: that of installing and running later versions of python on a
  shared server (sans root access).
-- 
Tim Johnson
http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Determining latest stable version for download

[Tim Johnson]

* Michael Torrie  [190320 19:22]:
> On 03/20/2019 07:10 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
> > * Ian Kelly  [190320 12:00]:
> >> 1) https://www.python.org/downloads/ has release information. Based on that
> >> you would currently want 3.7.2. Make sure you actually download 3.7.2 and
> >> not 3.7.2rc1.
> >   Understood. Thanks. Your info is the solution.
> 
> I always found maintaining software installed from tarball on a remote
> server was difficult at best.
> 
> You mentioned it will be on CentOS.  If you have CentOS 7, the EPEL
> repository (nearly required by all installations in my opinion), has a
> package for Python 3.6, called python36.  The advantage there is that it
> will be updated with point releases and kept somewhat secure by your
> normal yum update process.
> 
> Also you might check out RedHat's Software Collections at
> https://www.softwarecollections.org/en/.  They have Python 3.6 in it,
> and I imagine 3.7 will be there soon.  Software Collections might not
> work for you as it installs to /opt and stays out of the default path.
> It's more for developers who want to play with multiple versions of
> languages and compilers.
  Michael, I should have asked the following question:
  Would I be able to install from the EPEL Repository or the Redhat
  Software Collections to a local ~/bin?

  thanks again
-- 
Tim Johnson
http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Determining latest stable version for download

[Tim Johnson]

* Michael Torrie  [190320 19:22]:
> On 03/20/2019 07:10 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
> > * Ian Kelly  [190320 12:00]:
> >> 1) https://www.python.org/downloads/ has release information. Based on that
> >> you would currently want 3.7.2. Make sure you actually download 3.7.2 and
> >> not 3.7.2rc1.
> >   Understood. Thanks. Your info is the solution.
> 
> I always found maintaining software installed from tarball on a remote
> server was difficult at best.
> 
> You mentioned it will be on CentOS.  If you have CentOS 7, the EPEL
> repository (nearly required by all installations in my opinion), has a
> package for Python 3.6, called python36.  The advantage there is that it
> will be updated with point releases and kept somewhat secure by your
> normal yum update process.
> 
> Also you might check out RedHat's Software Collections at
> https://www.softwarecollections.org/en/.  They have Python 3.6 in it,
> and I imagine 3.7 will be there soon.  Software Collections might not
> work for you as it installs to /opt and stays out of the default path.
> It's more for developers who want to play with multiple versions of
> languages and compilers.
  I'm currently on a shared server hosted by Hostmonster. I don't
  have root access, so a local install would be my only option. If
  local install doesn't work or is insufficient, then I would switch
  to a VPS. Since I'm retired and only a hobbyist in my Golden
  Years :), a shared server would be sufficient and cheaper, so that
  is my first choice.

  Having said that, if I have to go with a VPS (and root access)
  your information is very helpful.

  Thank you.
-- 
Tim Johnson
http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Determining latest stable version for download

[Tim Johnson]

* Ian Kelly  [190320 12:00]:
> 1) https://www.python.org/downloads/ has release information. Based on that
> you would currently want 3.7.2. Make sure you actually download 3.7.2 and
> not 3.7.2rc1.
  Understood. Thanks. Your info is the solution.

> 2) The tarfiles are not distro-specific. For Linux there are really only
> two options: Python-3.7.2.tar.xz and Python-3.7.2.tgz. The only difference
> is that one is compressed with xz and the other is compressed with gzip.
> Pick the .xz unless you're unable to decompress it.
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 12:43 PM Tim Johnson  wrote:
> 
> > Some time in the near future I will want to install the latest
> > current stable version of python on a remote server. I anticipate
> > that I will either use wget from the server shell or download to my
> > workstation and transfer via FTP. I will need source to compile.
> >
> > I see python source at https://www.python.org/ftp/python/.
> >
> > How do I determine the following?
> > 1) Latest current stable version of python 3*
> > 2) Correct tarfile for linux - at this time I assume it will be
> >linux centOS
> >
> > TIA
> > --
> > Tim Johnson
> > http://www.tj49.com
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Tim Johnson
http://www.tj49.com
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Determining latest stable version for download

[Tim Johnson]

Some time in the near future I will want to install the latest
current stable version of python on a remote server. I anticipate
that I will either use wget from the server shell or download to my
workstation and transfer via FTP. I will need source to compile.

I see python source at https://www.python.org/ftp/python/.

How do I determine the following?
1) Latest current stable version of python 3*
2) Correct tarfile for linux - at this time I assume it will be
   linux centOS

TIA
-- 
Tim Johnson
http://www.tj49.com
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Pip Version Confusion

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> [180324 10:32]:
> * Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> [180324 08:29]:
> > On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 07:40:17 -0800, Tim Johnson wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm on Ubuntu 16.04.
> > > 
> > > I'm getting the following message from pip:
> > > 
> > > You are using pip version 8.1.1, however version 9.0.3 is available. You
> > > should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command.
> > [...]
> > > Not sure how to resolve - please advise, thanks
> > 
> > 
> > Well, what happens when you try running 
> > 
> > pip install --upgrade pip
> tim@linus:~/Downloads$ pip install --upgrade pip
> Requirement already up-to-date: pip in
> /home/tim/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages
> > 
> > I expect that you've probably got two (or more!) pips installed, and 
> > somehow sometimes you get one and sometimes the other. The problem is, it 
> > seems to me, that we can get pip installed through at least three 
> > mechanisms:
>  
>pips all over the place ... pips, pips2, pips2.7
>all but /usr/bin/pip2 show version as 9.0.3
>/usr/bin/pip2 is version 8.1.1
># code follows
> #!/usr/bin/python
> # EASY-INSTALL-ENTRY-SCRIPT: 'pip==8.1.1','console_scripts','pip2'
> __requires__ = 'pip==8.1.1'
> import sys
> from pkg_resources import load_entry_point
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> sys.exit(
> load_entry_point('pip==8.1.1', 'console_scripts', 'pip2')()
> )
> 
> Looks like I should not have install pip via the ubuntu package manager.
  From the package manager:
python-pip/xenial-updates,xenial-updates,now 8.1.1-2ubuntu0.4 all
[installed]
python-pip-whl/xenial-updates,xenial-updates,now 8.1.1-2ubuntu0.4
all [installed,automatic]

Think I've found it... I'll trying 'deinstalling' that package and
see if the nonsense goes away.

Thank you Steven!

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Re: Pip Version Confusion

[Tim Johnson]

* Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> [180324 08:29]:
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 07:40:17 -0800, Tim Johnson wrote:
> 
> > I'm on Ubuntu 16.04.
> > 
> > I'm getting the following message from pip:
> > 
> > You are using pip version 8.1.1, however version 9.0.3 is available. You
> > should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command.
> [...]
> > Not sure how to resolve - please advise, thanks
> 
> 
> Well, what happens when you try running 
> 
> pip install --upgrade pip
tim@linus:~/Downloads$ pip install --upgrade pip
Requirement already up-to-date: pip in
/home/tim/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages
> 
> I expect that you've probably got two (or more!) pips installed, and 
> somehow sometimes you get one and sometimes the other. The problem is, it 
> seems to me, that we can get pip installed through at least three 
> mechanisms:
 
   pips all over the place ... pips, pips2, pips2.7
   all but /usr/bin/pip2 show version as 9.0.3
   /usr/bin/pip2 is version 8.1.1
   # code follows
#!/usr/bin/python
# EASY-INSTALL-ENTRY-SCRIPT: 'pip==8.1.1','console_scripts','pip2'
__requires__ = 'pip==8.1.1'
import sys
from pkg_resources import load_entry_point

if __name__ == '__main__':
sys.exit(
load_entry_point('pip==8.1.1', 'console_scripts', 'pip2')()
)

Looks like I should not have install pip via the ubuntu package manager.

> - installing pip by hand, via source or some other mechanism;
> 
> - using ensure-pip in a sufficiently recent Python;
> 
> - using your OS's package manager.
> 
> And of course each version of Python can have its own pip.
> 
> 
> To diagnose this, I would try:
> 
> Query your package manager, what version of pip does it say is installed?
> 
> How many versions of Python do you have installed? Which one are you 
> running?
> 
> Precisely what command line did you give to get the message above?
> 
> If you cd out of whatever directory you are in, does the message change?
> 
> If you run pip as a different user, what happens?
> 
> If you run "locate pip", how many pip installations does it find, and 
> what are they?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
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Pip Version Confusion

[Tim Johnson]

I'm on Ubuntu 16.04.

I'm getting the following message from pip:

You are using pip version 8.1.1, however version 9.0.3 is available.
You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command.

# But then I get this :
tim@linus:~/Downloads$ which pip
/home/tim/.local/bin/pip

# and this:
tim@linus:~/Downloads$ pip --version
pip 9.0.3 from /home/tim/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages (python 2.7)

Not sure how to resolve - please advise,
thanks

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Tim
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Re: Restore via pip to new OS

[Tim Johnson]

* Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> [180314 15:42]:
> Use pip freeze rather than pip list. That will give you the
> information in  "requirements file" format that pip install -r can
> read.
> 
> On 14 March 2018 at 23:20, Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
<...>
> > Can I duplicate the same packages on the new OS by
> > pip -r piplist.txt?
  Thank you Paul.
  Cheers
-- 
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Restore via pip to new OS

[Tim Johnson]

I'm currently running both python and python3 on ubuntu 14.04.
Plan is to do a complete re-install of ubuntu 16.04 on a fresh
hard drive.

I've accumulated a list of pip-install packages via 
pip list > piplist.txt.

Can I duplicate the same packages on the new OS by
pip -r piplist.txt?

thanks
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Import name conflicts

[Tim Johnson]

* Steve D'Aprano <steve+pyt...@pearwood.info> [170418 16:08]:
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 04:28 am, Tim Johnson wrote:
> 
> > Using python 2.7~
> > 
> > For testing and edification purposes:
> > 
> > I have a project which has a controllers package at the directory
> > level just below the root.
> 
> Do you mean the root of the file system?
> 
> 
> >>From the top-level (root) of the project, I start my python
> > interpreter.
> 
> Don't do that. You are defeating the whole purpose of packages.
> 
> The point of a package is to the caller, it appears like a single library,
> while still allowing it to contain multiple files internally with its own
> fine structure.
> 
> If your package structure looks like this:
> 
> X/controllers/
>   +-- __init__.py
>   +-- imp.py
>   ... any other modules and sub-packages
> 
> 
> then you should start Python from X, not from X/controllers.
> 
> Or even better, you should ensure X is in sys.path (there are various ways
> to do that), and then start Python from anywhere.
> 
> 
> > The packages is called 'controllers' and has a submodule named 'imp'
> > 
> > I do the following:
> >>>> a = __import__('imp')
> >>>> dir(a)
> > ['C_BUILTIN', 'C_EXTENSION', 'IMP_HOOK', 'NullImporter',
> > 'PKG_DIRECTORY', ]
> > # object a is the builtin imp module
> 
> 
> Like (nearly) all __dunder__ methods and functions, __import__ is reserved
> for use by Python and you shouldn't need to use it.
> 
> The conventional ways to access packages.imp are (untested):
> 
> # As a user of the controllers package
> import controllers.imp as a
> 
> # Within the controllers package
> from __future__ import absolute_imports
> from . import imp as a
> 
> 
> You only need the "from __future__ ..." directive once per module, but it
> must be the very first line of executable code. (It can only be preceded by
> blank lines or comments.)
> 
> To get access to the standard library imp, you do this:
> 
> # As a user of the controllers package
> import imp as b
> 
> # Within the controllers package
> import imp as b
> 
> 
> [...]
> > Now, suppose a python upgrade provides a package called controllers
> > or there's some great third-party package available called
> > controllers.
> 
> If you have two modules/packages with the same name, there's no clean way to
> access one or the other. That's not how importing works. Whichever module
> is found in the search path (sys.path) shadows the other.
> 
> That's both a feature and an annoyance, depend on whether you find it useful
> or not. But that's how it is.
> 
> In the case of name conflicts between modules, your choices are:
> 
> - live with the conflict;
> - rename the conflicting module;
> - manually adjust sys.path when and as needed to avoid one and 
>   get the other, then reverse your adjustments to do the opposite.

  Thanks for the input. I'm running out of time today, so just want
  to thank you for your input and advice. The overriding issue is
  how to have a strategy so that some future conflict does not
  clobber a whole bunch of apps. Between Ben's and your subsequent
  comments, I've got a solution.

  cheers
-- 
Tim 
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Re: Import name conflicts

[Tim Johnson]

* Ben Finney <ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au> [170418 14:58]:
> Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> writes:
> 
> > Using python 2.7~
> 
> In Python 2, you should turn on the “default import is absolute” by
> issuing the statement::
> 
> from __future__ import absolute_import
> 
> as one of the first statements in each module.
> 
> When you migrate your code to PYthon 3, that will be the default
> behaviour.
> 
> > The packages is called 'controllers' and has a submodule named 'imp'
> 
> To avoid the module named ‘imp’ in the standard library, your code
> should import ‘imp’ using a relative import. See PEP 328
> <URL:https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/#rationale-for-relative-imports>.
> 
> So, you'd do::
> 
> from . import imp
> 
> to import the ‘imp’ module relative to the current package.
> 
> > I do the following:
> > >>> a = __import__('imp')
> 
> It is best to avoid calling dunder functions directly; they are
> available for overriding the internals of language features, and
> *invoking* one is best done by just using the corresponding language
> feature.
> 
> Instead, use either the ‘import’ statement, or the ‘importlib’ standard
> library module <URL:https://docs.python.org/2/library/importlib.html>,
> specifically the ‘importlib.import_module’ function::
> 
> import importlib
> 
> a = importlib.import_module('.imp')
> 
> > Now, suppose a python upgrade provides a package called controllers or
> > there's some great third-party package available called controllers.
> 
> You don't even have to imagine that far: there is already a standard
> library module named ‘imp’, so you already have that problem to contend
> with :-)
> 
> That is the distinction that led to “absolute” import versus “relative”
> import.
> 
> > How do I access the 'global' controllers package?
> 
> * Enable “default import is absolute”, as described above.
> 
> * Issue a normal import statement: the absolute import search path will
>   be used.
> 
> I hope that helps.
  Lots of help Ben ...
  Beware, I started my career coding in ASM, then C, then python, so
  I'm prone to get under the hood and start playing with the wires.

  I made a simple test module called 'controllers' in another
  directory, used __import__ to get the 'local' imp module from the
  local controllers package then changed directories to the location
  of the "global" controllers module (in sys.path). Popped
  "controllers" from sys.modules and then called __import__ again to
  get that module as another variable.

  To reiterate Ben's method with working code and upper-level 
  importlib:
  >>> from __future__ import absolute_import
  >>> import importlib
  >>> i = importlib.import_module('.imp',package='controllers') #
  # package arg needed
  >>> dir(i)
  ['COLORS', 'CONTROLLER', 'DBNAME', 'DBPWD', 'DBUSERNAME',
  'ID_COL', 'JOB', 'MYTABLE', 'RECID', 'TABLEFORMAT',
  '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__',
  'load', 'std']
  # dir(i) verifies that 'i' is my 'local' 'imp' module
  >>> i1 = importlib.import_module('imp')
  >>> dir(i1) # result not shown
   # verifies 'i1' is my "global" imp module
   # Now, to load my alternate controllers module, I have to do
   # this:
   import os, sys
   sys.modules.pop('controllers')
   os.chdir('/alternate/controllers/directory')
   c = importlib.import_module('controllers')
   # now dir(c) verifies that c is my alternate 'controllers' module
   # NOTE: in my scenario, we could expect that the alternate
   # 'controller' module would be in sys.path. Some iteration might
   # be needed

   thanks Ben. :) I guess I have a plan

-- 
Tim 
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Import name conflicts

[Tim Johnson]

Using python 2.7~

For testing and edification purposes:

I have a project which has a controllers package at the directory
level just below the root.

>From the top-level (root) of the project, I start my python
interpreter.

The packages is called 'controllers' and has a submodule named 'imp'

I do the following:
>>> a = __import__('imp')
>>> dir(a)
['C_BUILTIN', 'C_EXTENSION', 'IMP_HOOK', 'NullImporter',
'PKG_DIRECTORY', ]
# object a is the builtin imp module

Now I do 
>>> b = __import__('controllers.imp', fromlist=['controllers'])
>>> dir(b)
['COLORS', 'CONTROLLER', 'DBNAME', 'DBPWD', 'DBUSERNAME', 'ID_COL',
'JOB', 'MYTABLE', 'RECID', 'TABLEFORMAT', ...]

# object b is the imp module in the controllers package.
# I've resolved a potential name collision ...

Now, suppose a python upgrade provides a package called controllers
or there's some great third-party package available called
controllers. 

How do I access the 'global' controllers package?

thanks

-- 
Tim 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I

[Tim Johnson]

* Paul Rudin <paul.nos...@rudin.co.uk> [170103 23:17]:
> Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> writes:
>
> > * Antonio Caminero Garcia <tonycam...@gmail.com> [170102 20:56]:
> >> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
> >> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
> >> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
> >> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
> >> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
> >> editor (that is really awesome).
> >
> >  Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
> >  supports tabs, where emacs does not.
>
> M-x package-install tabbar
  :) Thank you. list-packages is my friend ...
--
Tim
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com

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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Tim Johnson]

* Paul Rudin <paul.nos...@rudin.co.uk> [170103 23:17]:
> Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> writes:
> 
> > * Antonio Caminero Garcia <tonycam...@gmail.com> [170102 20:56]:
> >> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
> >> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
> >> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
> >> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
> >> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
> >> editor (that is really awesome). 
> >
> >  Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
> >  supports tabs, where emacs does not.
> 
> M-x package-install tabbar
  :) Thank you. list-packages is my friend ...
-- 
Tim 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Tim Johnson]

* Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 20:56]:
> Guys really thank you for your answers. Basically now I am more
> emphasizing in learning in depth a tool and get stick to it so I
> can get a fast workflow. Eventually I will learn Vim and its
> python developing setup, I know people who have been programming
> using Vim for almost 20 years and they did not need to change
> editor (that is really awesome). 

 Bye the way, one thing I like about the GUI based vim is that it
 supports tabs, where emacs does not.

 And check out the vim plugins for python

 Good Luck!
-- 
Tim 
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Re: Choosing a Python IDE. what is your Pythonish recommendation? I do not know what to choose.

[Tim Johnson]

* Antonio Caminero Garcia  [170102 02:50]:
<> 

> Now, I am thinking about giving a try to Visual Studio Code
> Edition (take a look, it sounds good
> https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=donjayamanne.python).
> I need an editor for professional software development. What would
> you recommend to me?
  The best thing - as has been emphasised by others regarding this
  topic - is to establish tools, stick with them and learn them
  well.

  I use two approaches on linux:

  1)From Gnome terminal I run MC (midnight commander) as my default
  file manager with vim (in terminal mode) as the MC default editor.
  This method is used for ad-hoc editing of python source code, but
  also for system editing in general.

  2)I use emacs with elpy mode in GUI mode for large-scale work.
  Elpy is so helpful, I'm almost embarassed to admit being a
  pythonist. To compound the embarassment, the elpy developer is
  extremely helpful and very generous. :)

  -> I've used gvim (GUI mode) extensively in the past. 

  I find vim more "nimble", thus my preferance for quick-and-dirty
  edits. 
  
  Emacs, on the other hand, is enormously extendable and I have
  implemented extensive keymapping. For me, augmenting keymapping
  with the emacs help system trumps vim's more nimble approach. 
  
  In addition, I've implemented an auxilary help system using emacs'
  built-in browser so that I can call up category - based
  "cheat-sheats" with simple html highlighting and hyperlinking.

  My caveat is that both vim and emacs are a tough learning curve.
  Vimscript extends vim, elisp extends emacs. In both cases, one is
  essentially learning an additional programming language. 

  One's personal preference for input devices should also be
  considered, IMHO :

  I prefer the keyboard over pointing devices and a trackball over a
  mouse for pointing device. I use a small-footprint 68-key
  tenkeyless keyboard with a standalone keypad with my left hand
  (trackball is on the right). I've also programmed the keypad
  extensively for emacs.

  The bottom line, as others have stated, is to consistently stick
  with some approach that fits one's personal preferences. 
  
  We are fortunate to have so many options. 
  
-- 
Tim 
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Re: What is currently the recommended way to work with a distutils-based setup.py that requires compilation?

[Tim Johnson]

* Ivan Pozdeev via Python-list  [161106 17:28]:
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/WindowsCompilers has now completely replaced
> instructions for `distutils`-based packages (starting with `from
> distutils.core import setup`) with ones for `setuptools`-based ones
> (starting with `from setuptools import setup`).
> 
> However, if I have a `distutils`-based `setup.py`, when I run it,
> `setuptools` is not used - thus the instructions on the page don't work.
> 
> It is possible to run a `distutils`-based script through `setuptools`, as
> `pip` does, but it requires the following code
> (https://github.com/pypa/pip/blob/8.1.2/pip/req/req_install.py#L849 ):
> 
> python -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__=;
> exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read()
> .replace('\\r\\n', '\\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" 
> 
> They can't possibly expect me to type that on the command line each time,
> now can they?
Ivan, it looks like you aren't getting any answers from seasoned
list gurus to your question.

So, I'm going to take a stab at this and I hope you are not mislead
or misdirected by my comments.

> They can't possibly expect me to type that on the command line each time,

The code that you are quoting above can be placed in a script file
and executed at will. Once you get the syntax correct, you will then
be able to execute that script at any time.

I don't know what operating system you are using: Linux and Mac work
pretty much similarly when it comes to console scripts, windows will
have a different approach, but not radically so.

I hope this helps or puts you on a constructive path.

> I also asked this at http://stackoverflow.com/q/40174932/648265 a couple of
> days ago (to no avail).
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards,
> Ivan
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Tim 
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Re: Idiomatic code validator?

[Tim Johnson]

* Steve D'Aprano <steve+pyt...@pearwood.info> [160920 16:29]:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 01:41 am, Tim Johnson wrote:
> 
> > Not to confuse idiomatic code validation with pep8 validation (I use
> > elpy on emacs)
> > 
> > Is there such a thing as a validator for _idiomatic_ code?
> 
> 
> Yes, it is called a linter. There are various linters available:
> 
> pylint, pychecker, jedi, flake
> 
> 
> there may be others. Depending on how good the linter is, they will do
> things like flag unused arguments, dead code, use of deprecated features,
> and so forth. Some of them may be very opinionated, e.g. flag uses of map()
> as unidiomatic and recommend a list comprehension instead. Whether you
> agree with that opinion or not is up to you.
  Sorry. Should have added this: It might be useful for me to use a more
  "opinionated" linter outside of my "IDE".
  cheers
> -- 
> Steve
> “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.
  :) Again. Sorry!
 
-- 
Tim 
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Re: Idiomatic code validator?

[Tim Johnson]

* Steve D'Aprano <steve+pyt...@pearwood.info> [160920 16:29]:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 01:41 am, Tim Johnson wrote:
> 
> > Not to confuse idiomatic code validation with pep8 validation (I use
> > elpy on emacs)
> > 
> > Is there such a thing as a validator for _idiomatic_ code?
> 
> 
> Yes, it is called a linter. There are various linters available:
> 
> pylint, pychecker, jedi, flake
  thanks Steve :

  I use flake8 thru elpy. I'm guessing that my inquiry is redundant.
(I might need to look at more fine-grained configuration thru
elpy)

  cheers
  - tj -
> 
> there may be others. Depending on how good the linter is, they will do
> things like flag unused arguments, dead code, use of deprecated features,
> and so forth. Some of them may be very opinionated, e.g. flag uses of map()
> as unidiomatic and recommend a list comprehension instead. Whether you
> agree with that opinion or not is up to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Tim 
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Re: Idiomatic code validator?

[Tim Johnson]

* Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> [160920 11:48]:
> On 9/20/2016 11:41 AM, Tim Johnson wrote:
> > Not to confuse idiomatic code validation with pep8 validation
> 
> Strictly speaking, there cannot be a mechanical PEP 8 validator, as any
> mechanical checker violates the admonitions of the beginning sections
> 'Introductions' and 'A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little
> Minds'.  For this reason, the core developers request the author of the
> checker formerly known as 'pep8' to change its name, which he did.
  elpy uses flake8
  https://github.com/jorgenschaefer/elpy/wiki/Configuration

> > Is there such a thing as a validator for _idiomatic_ code?
> 
> What would such a thing do?  Flag supposedly non-idiomatic code?  Or mark
> code recognized as 'idiomatic', with no implication either way about other
> code?
  Why not? 

> > I have Knupp's "Writing Idiomatic Python" and have bookmarked some
> > advisory websites that illustrate idiomatic style.
> 
> Do they all agree on 'idiomatic'?
  Not likely, I would not expect them to.
  Thanks

-- 
Tim 
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Idiomatic code validator?

[Tim Johnson]

Not to confuse idiomatic code validation with pep8 validation (I use
elpy on emacs)

Is there such a thing as a validator for _idiomatic_ code?

I have Knupp's "Writing Idiomatic Python" and have bookmarked some
advisory websites that illustrate idiomatic style.

thanks
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
-- 
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Re: Importing two modules of same name

[Tim Johnson]

* dieter  [160209 23:03]:
> Carl Meyer  writes:
> > ...
> > If you omit the future-import in Python 2.7, `import config` will import
> > the neighboring app/config.py by default, and there is no way to import
> > the top-level config.py.
> 
> There is the "__import__" builtin function which allows to specify
> the "parent package" indirectly via its "globals" parameter. This
> way, you can import the "top-level" config (passing an empty "globals").
  Thanks.
  I used __import__ as part of a custom load() function that I used
  in my own framework when I was developing CGI sites. I never used
  the globals parameter tho'.
  If I start

-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Importing two modules of same name

[Tim Johnson]

Before proceding, let me state that this is to satisfy my
curiousity, not to solve any problem I am having.

Scenario :
Web application developed at /some/dir/sites/flask/

If I have a package - let us call it app and in my
/some/dir/sites/flask/app/__init__.py is the following:

from config import config

imports the config dictionary from  /some/dir/sites/flask/config.py

(the real-case scenario is M. Grinberg's tutorial on Flask).

What if I wanted to add a module in the app package and call it from
__init__.py

That entails having two modules name config
one at /some/dir/sites/flask/config.py
and the other at /some/dir/sites/flask/app/config.py

What would be the proper way to do this? (If proper at all :)) I
realize that it may not be best practices. And is a practice that I
avoided in the past.

FYI: 
Platform - python 2.7 on Ubuntu 14.04. 
Experience: long-time python CGI programmer before retiring about 3
years ago.

Thanks
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Importing two modules of same name

[Tim Johnson]

* Carl Meyer  [160209 15:28]:
> Hi Tim,
<...> 
> The proper way to do this in Python 2.7 is to place `from __future__
> import absolute_import` at the top of flask/app/__init__.py (maybe best
> at the top of every Python file in your project, to keep the behavior
> consistent). Once you have that future-import, `import config` will
> always import the top-level config.py. To import the "local" config.py,
> you'd either `from . import config` or `import app.config`.
> 
> Python 3 behaves this way without the need for a future-import.
> 
> If you omit the future-import in Python 2.7, `import config` will import
> the neighboring app/config.py by default, and there is no way to import
> the top-level config.py.

  Thanks for setting me straight Carl.
  I'm including the full package constructor (app/__init__.py) code
  for other's edification and further comment (if deemed necessary).
  Some commented annotation added
##
from __future__ import absolute_import
from flask import Flask
from flask.ext.bootstrap import Bootstrap
from flask.ext.mail import Mail
from flask.ext.moment import Moment
from flask.ext.sqlalchemy import SQLAlchemy

# Import top-level config
from config import config

# Import same-level config avoiding name collision
from . import config as cfg

bootstrap = Bootstrap()
mail = Mail()
moment = Moment()
db = SQLAlchemy()


def create_app(config_name):
app = Flask(__name__)
app.config.from_object(config[config_name])
config[config_name].init_app(app)

bootstrap.init_app(app)
mail.init_app(app)
moment.init_app(app)
db.init_app(app)

from .main import main as main_blueprint
app.register_blueprint(main_blueprint)

return app
  
Cheers  
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Using subprocess to capture a progress line

[Tim Johnson]

* Chris Warrick <kwpol...@gmail.com> [15 00:55]:
> On 10 November 2015 at 23:47, Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
> > Using python 2.7.6 on ubuntu 14.04
<..> 
> There is no \n character at the end — which means that
> p.stdout.readline() cannot return. In fact, if you printed repr() of
> the line you read, you would get this:
> 
> b'\r[download]  54.9% of 2.73MiB at 26.73KiB/s ETA 00:47\r[download]
> 55.0% of 2.73MiB at 79.33KiB/s ETA 00:15\r…snip…\r[download] 100% of
> 2.73MiB in 00:01\n'
> 
> The download line is implemented using \r, which is the carriage
> return character (return to the first character), and then by
> overwriting characters that were already printed.
> 
> The solution? There are numerous. I’ll help you by obscuring the worst one.
> 
> (1) [recommended] figure out how to make youtube_dl work as a library,
> read its main file to figure out the problem. Don’t mess with
> subprocess.
  Was my first goal, had some problems, but I have solved them in
  part by finding the good documentation of the developers.

  I.E., the subprocess method _is_ going away and I will be using
  the youtube_dl module.

> (2) [don’t do it] do you need to intercept the lines? If you don’t set
> stderr= and stdout=, things will print just fine.
  Got to try that before using the module, just for edification.

> (3) [DON’T DO IT] .ernq() punenpgre ol punenpgre naq znxr n zrff.
> 
> PS. Thank you for setting a sensible Reply-To header on your messages.
> Which is something the list should be doing.
  LOL! Glad to help :)
  Thanks for the reply and the further education. 
  Cheers
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Using subprocess to capture a progress line

[Tim Johnson]

* Chris Warrick <kwpol...@gmail.com> [15 07:54]:
> On 11 November 2015 at 17:16, Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
> >> (2) [don’t do it] do you need to intercept the lines? If you don’t set
> >> stderr= and stdout=, things will print just fine.
> >   Got to try that before using the module, just for edification.
> 
> At which point your initial code sample will become:
> ###
> p = subprocess.Popen(list(args))
> ###
> 
  Yeah, 'list is redundant.
  Progress is now showing, but I forgot to say that I've lost the
  original intent, and that was to examine each line so that I could
  pull out the title.

  No matter. I'm on the way to make the youtube_dl module working.
  cheers

-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: Using subprocess to capture a progress line

[Tim Johnson]

* Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> [151110 14:35]:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
> > I've written a command-line "wrapper" for youtube-dl, executing
> > youtube-dl as a subprocess.
> >
> > --
> > youtube-dl reports download progress on one line. I.E. the line is
> > overwritten numerous times with no carriage return until the
> > downloading is finished.
> > --
> >
> 
> Sounds to me like a possible buffering problem. But since youtube-dl
> is implemented in Python, you might find it easier to "pip install
> youtube_dl" and work with the methods directly:
> 
> >>> import youtube_dl
> >>> youtube_dl.YoutubeDL().download(["m39ydsOPSww"])

  Frankly, I'd prefer - in the long run - to use youtube_dl (the
  module).

  But, when I do as you have suggested (and have tried previously) I
  get the following:

  youtube_dl.utils.DownloadError: ERROR: no suitable InfoExtractor

  I've briefly researched the error and so far haven't come up with an
  solution - guessing that other setup code is needed ...

  As for the buffering issue, at this point, I'll try  using a
  lower-level function like sys.stdout.write when the line 
  tests for '[download]' and 'ETA'.

  :) more elegant solutions welcome. I do intend to investigate
  using youtube_dl, once subprocess has been dealt with.

  thanks for the quick reply

-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Using subprocess to capture a progress line

[Tim Johnson]

Using python 2.7.6 on ubuntu 14.04 
The application in question is run with bash and gnome-terminal :

I've written a command-line "wrapper" for youtube-dl, executing
youtube-dl as a subprocess.

--
youtube-dl reports download progress on one line. I.E. the line is
overwritten numerous times with no carriage return until the
downloading is finished.
--

The following code runs the youtube-dl command and reports each line
as output by youtube-dl
###
p = subprocess.Popen(list(args), stderr=subprocess.STDOUT,
 stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
while True:
line = p.stdout.readline()
if not line:
break
tmp = line.strip()
print tmp
###

However this method not does show the download progress _until_ the
download is complete. 

To clarify : follows is output from my app running youtube-dl.
I've annotated the line in question with '###'

[youtube] ZIgnHPqp0Dk: Downloading webpage
[youtube] ZIgnHPqp0Dk: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] ZIgnHPqp0Dk: Extracting video information
[youtube] ZIgnHPqp0Dk: Downloading js player en_US-vfljDEtYP
[youtube] ZIgnHPqp0Dk: Downloading DASH manifest
[download] Destination: Someday Soon - Judy Collins 1969.avi.m4a
### the line below is not seen until download is finished.
[download] 100% of 7.58MiB in 00:12.85KiB/s ETA 00:00
[ffmpeg] Correcting container in "Someday Soon - Judy Collins 1969.avi.m4a"
[ffmpeg] Destination: Someday Soon - Judy Collins 1969.avi.mp3
Deleting original file Someday Soon - Judy Collins 1969.avi.m4a (pass -k to 
keep)

Is there a way to code subprocess so the the progress is being
shown? In my case lines being output aren't being shown unless a
newline is sent, or so I understand it.

FYI : the need for this function in this case is trivial, but the
solution will be enlightening for me and have other uses, I'll bet.

thanks

-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
-- 
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Re: Using subprocess to capture a progress line

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> [151110 14:55]:
> * Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> [151110 14:35]:
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
> > > I've written a command-line "wrapper" for youtube-dl, executing
> > > youtube-dl as a subprocess.
> > >
> > > --
> > > youtube-dl reports download progress on one line. I.E. the line is
> > > overwritten numerous times with no carriage return until the
> > > downloading is finished.
> > > --
> > >
> > 
> > Sounds to me like a possible buffering problem. But since youtube-dl
> > is implemented in Python, you might find it easier to "pip install
> > youtube_dl" and work with the methods directly:
> 
>   As for the buffering issue, at this point, I'll try  using a
>   lower-level function like sys.stdout.write when the line 
>   tests for '[download]' and 'ETA'.
That method doesn't work ... so far. Oh well.
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
-- 
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Re: Using subprocess to capture a progress line

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> [151110 14:55]:
> * Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> [151110 14:35]:
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Tim Johnson <t...@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
> > > I've written a command-line "wrapper" for youtube-dl, executing
> > is implemented in Python, you might find it easier to "pip install
> > youtube_dl" and work with the methods directly:
<<...> > 
> > >>> import youtube_dl
> > >>> youtube_dl.YoutubeDL().download(["m39ydsOPSww"])
> 
>   Frankly, I'd prefer - in the long run - to use youtube_dl (the
>   module).
> 
>   But, when I do as you have suggested (and have tried previously) I
>   get the following:
> 
>   youtube_dl.utils.DownloadError: ERROR: no suitable InfoExtractor
> 
It looks as if the developers are constantly upgrading. I just
upgraded youtube_dl

sudo pip install --upgrade youtube_dl

And ran the code which is provided under the topic 
"EMBEDDING YOUTUBE-DL"
at 
https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/blob/master/README.md

At I got a successful download, AFAICS
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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testing, please disregard

[Tim Johnson]

I have had some problems with another python.org ML.
I am sending this to see if it is received.
Please disregard.
thanks
-- 
Tim 
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: [OT]Royal pardon for codebreaker Turing

[Tim Johnson]

* Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info [131224 16:19]:
 Tim Johnson wrote:
 
  * Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info [131224 07:05]:
  On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 00:32:31 +, Mark Lawrence wrote:
  
   Maybe of interest to some of you
   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315
  
  While I'm happy for Alan Turing, may he rest in peace, I think the
  thousands of other homosexuals who have been prosecuted for something
  which shouldn't be a crime in the first place might be a bit peeved that
  he is singled out for a pardon.
   
The LGBTs that I know are happy to hear about it...
 
 How many of them have been prosecuted themselves? If they have been, did
 they get pardoned as well?
 
 In case it wasn't obvious, I'm not objecting to Turing being pardoned. I'm
 suggesting that there are probably thousands of people whose lives were
 equally ruined, and they haven't been pardoned. I'm sure that Turing wasn't
 the only person who was forced into taking hormone therapy, he probably
 wasn't the only person driven to suicide, and I know that he wasn't the
 only one who lost his job and career because of the hateful laws.
 
 Turing's prosecution was an especially spiteful example, given his role in
 the war effort, but many others suffered equally. Some may even be alive
 today. Where is their royal pardon?

  I'm not sure if you have a cause or if you want an argument.
  You'll get none from me. I - like many others, and perhaps you as
  well - carry the scars of man's inhumanity to man. Justice for
  that has its venue and it isn't on this ML.

  Go find your cause and its venue. I'm done with this.
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
-- 
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Re: [OT]Royal pardon for codebreaker Turing

[Tim Johnson]

* Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info [131224 07:05]:
 On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 00:32:31 +, Mark Lawrence wrote:
 
  Maybe of interest to some of you
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315
 
 While I'm happy for Alan Turing, may he rest in peace, I think the 
 thousands of other homosexuals who have been prosecuted for something 
 which shouldn't be a crime in the first place might be a bit peeved that 
 he is singled out for a pardon.
 
  The LGBTs that I know are happy to hear about it...

 Personally, I think that people ought to throw a party celebrating 
 Turing's rehabilitation, and do it right outside the Russian Embassy.
  
  :) Yeah!

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
-- 
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Re: [OT]Royal pardon for codebreaker Turing

[Tim Johnson]

OT
* Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk [131223 15:39]:
 Maybe of interest to some of you 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315
  I note the following
  
  Dr Alan Turing was an exceptional man with a brilliant mind, said
  Mr Grayling.

  He said the research Turing carried out during the war at
  Bletchley Park undoubtedly shortened the conflict and saved
  thousands of lives.
  

  From my research - general (and later president) Eisenhower seemed
  to think that Project Ultra save millions (not thousands) of
  lives, shortened and maybe won the War.
  - Never forget. 
/OT
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
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Re: ogg2mp3 utility?

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com [131113 17:06]:
 I've written an application that does some audio file conversions.
 
 I use mutagen for some of the mp3 file manipulation, but to convert
 ogg files to mp3 format I've been using subprocess to run the
 ogg2mp3 perl utility.  (available from http://marginalhacks.com/) by
 David Madison.
 
 It's a spot on great app, but I would like to be able to keep it
 all one codebase.
 
 Are there any python utility that anyone could recommend?

  I've downloaded ogg2mp3.py (http://emptybits.com/ogg2mp3/ogg2mp3)
  by Darren Stone http://bitmason.com, I've compared two
  conversions.

  Thus far, the perl utility produces a clearer playback, but I have
  not yet played with the options available from the python script.

  Both scripts rely on oggdec, ogginfo and lame.
  On the mac available through macports, available on other *nixes as
  well.

  If anyone is interested, I'd welcome feedback on the python script
  above and I will fiddle with it (not being an audio expert) to see
  if I can get the playback improved.

  I've looked at pymedia also. Have not tested it.

  FYI.cheers

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
-- 
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ogg2mp3 utility?

[Tim Johnson]

I've written an application that does some audio file conversions.

I use mutagen for some of the mp3 file manipulation, but to convert
ogg files to mp3 format I've been using subprocess to run the
ogg2mp3 perl utility.  (available from http://marginalhacks.com/) by
David Madison.

It's a spot on great app, but I would like to be able to keep it
all one codebase.

Are there any python utility that anyone could recommend?

thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: subprocess.Popen instance hangs

[Tim Johnson]

* Nobody nob...@nowhere.com [130830 06:55]:
 On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:00:21 -0800, Tim Johnson wrote:
 
  ## This appears to be what works.
  def __exec(self,args) :
  Run the process with arguments
 p =
 subprocess.Popen(args,stderr=subprocess.PIPE,stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
 while 1 :
 output = p.stdout.read()
 
 If the process tries to write more than a pipe's worth of data to stderr,
 before closing stdout, it will block indefinitely.
 
 If you want to process both stdout and stderr, you have to be able to
 consume the data in whatever order the process generates it, which means
 either using multiple threads or (on Unix) select/poll or non-blocking
 I/O. This is what the .communicate() method does (threads on Windows,
 select/poll on Unix).
 
 The alternative is to merge both streams with stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, or
 redirect one of them to a file (or /dev/null, etc).
  In earlier code I, I was merging them...
  :) Like I said: gnarly! What if I were to do something like:
  ## code
  while 1: 
output = p.stout.read()
err = p.stderr.read() ## trapping for AttributeError, etc..

  ## /code
break'ing if either no output or value in `err' 
 ?? 
  The objective is to display all output, but to also separate error
  messages from normal output.

  thank you
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: subprocess.Popen instance hangs

[Tim Johnson]

* Jerry Hill malaclyp...@gmail.com [130830 07:48]:
 On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
The objective is to display all output, but to also separate error
messages from normal output.
 
 I still think you want to use communicate().  Like this:
 
 p = subprocess.Popen(args,stderr=subprocess.PIPE,stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
 output, err = p.communicate()
 
 That's it.  No need for a loop, or manually handling the fact that
 stderr and/or stdout could end up with a full buffer and start to
 block.
  The following code :
p = subprocess.Popen(args,stderr=subprocess.PIPE,stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
errmsg,output = p.communicate()
... Hangs
this code :
p = subprocess.Popen(args,stderr=subprocess.PIPE,stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
while 1 :
output = p.stdout.read()
if output :
print(output)
else : break
... works
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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subprocess.Popen instance hangs

[Tim Johnson]

using Python 2.7.1 on OS X 10.7.5

I'm managing a process of drush using an instance of subprocess.Popen

The process has a '--verbose' option. When that option is passed as
part of the initializer `args' argument, the process will hang.

It should be no surprise as drush output with the --verbose option
can be _extremely_ verbose, and I can do without it, but I would
like to learn how to handle it. I've googled this topic, but my poor
little brain is yet to sort out all of the content found.

## my relevant code follows :
p = subprocess.Popen(args,stderr=subprocess.STDOUT,stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
## wait() is 'forever' if '--verbose' used
exit_status = p.wait()
output = p.stdout.read()
## done

I 'suspect' that using a tempfile may be the solution, if so, I
could use some examples.

thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: subprocess.Popen instance hangs

[Tim Johnson]

* MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com [130829 11:04]:
 On 29/08/2013 19:34, Tim Johnson wrote:
 could use some examples.
 
 The subprocess will terminate when it has finished writing its output,
 but because you're not consuming any of the output (you're waiting for
 it to finish), the buffer fills up and blocks the subprocess.
 
 Try reading the output or using the .communicate method.
 
 Alternatively, pass an open file as the stdout argument.
 
  Kudos to all for the replies. Here is some code to review:
## execute process and read output  
p = subprocess.Popen(args,stderr=subprocess.STDOUT,stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
while 1 :
output = p.stdout.read()
if output :
print(output)
else : break

## Check for errors  
exit_status = p.wait()
if exit_status :
if p.stderr :
self.__err('Process terminated with exit status: %s' % 
(str(exit_status)),
   'Following error message was found:'
p.stderr.read())
else :
self.__err('Process terminated with exit status: %s' % 
(str(exit_status)))

Without any error from the drush process, this works fine.

I can't quite figure out how to simulate/cause an error from drush,
so I would welcome comments on the error handling

thanks again
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: subprocess.Popen instance hangs

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com [130829 10:51]:
 using Python 2.7.1 on OS X 10.7.5
 
 I'm managing a process of drush using an instance of subprocess.Popen
... 
## This appears to be what works. 
def __exec(self,args) :
Run the process with arguments
   p = subprocess.Popen(args,stderr=subprocess.PIPE,stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
   while 1 :
   output = p.stdout.read()
   if output :
   print(output)
   else : break
   errmsg = p.communicate()[1]
   if errmsg :
   self.__err('Process terminated with error:',errmsg)
## Thanks again, gnarly one for me. I am eternally a noob!

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Why is Ruby on Rails more popular than Django?

[Tim Johnson]

* rh richard_hubb...@lavabit.com [130307 20:21]:
 On Wed, 6 Mar 2013 17:55:12 -0900
 Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
 
  
I believe that indifference on the part of Python to fastcgi is a
self-inflicted wound. I don't believe that there is any good
excuse for such indifference, except for a sort of bureaucratic
inertia. It's sad, when you consider how well python is designed
 
 Python is not indifferent to fastcgi, django is indifferent to fastcgi.
 
and how crappily PHP is designed and how easy it is to set up and
deploy drupal in the same environment. I speak from my own
experience.
 
 -- 
 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
  I stand corrected, that was a typo.
  thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Why is Ruby on Rails more popular than Django?

[Tim Johnson]

* mar...@python.net mar...@python.net [130306 09:31]:
 
 
 
  My questions:
  1.  Why is Ruby on Rails much more popular than Django?
 If you already know/work with Python than I would go the Django route. 
 RoR and Django are not that much different nowadays as far as
 methodologies.  The main differences I think between RoR and Django are
 that one is Ruby-based and one is Python-based.  Other than that, if you
 can get used to one you can get used to the other.
  I had problems getting django to work on my hostmonster account
  which is shared hosting and supports fast_cgi but not wsgi. I put
  that effort on hold for now, as it was just RD for me, but
  I would welcome you to take a look at this link where I opened a
  ticket.
  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/19970
  From what I inferred there and from the django ML, the django
  community is indifferent to fastcgi and the shared hosting
  environment. As someone is new to shared hosting environments (I
  would mostly on dedicated servers) I get the impression that
  django is cutting itself out of some (if not a lot) of the market.
  I don't know about RoR tho

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Why is Ruby on Rails more popular than Django?

[Tim Johnson]

* Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org [130306 17:14]:
 
 
 On Wed, Mar 6, 2013, at 02:16 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
 
I had problems getting django to work on my hostmonster account
which is shared hosting and supports fast_cgi but not wsgi. I put
that effort on hold for now, as it was just RD for me, but
I would welcome you to take a look at this link where I opened a
ticket.
https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/19970
From what I inferred there and from the django ML, the django
community is indifferent to fastcgi and the shared hosting
environment. As someone is new to shared hosting environments (I
would mostly on dedicated servers) I get the impression that
django is cutting itself out of some (if not a lot) of the market.
I don't know about RoR tho
 
 I haven't any experience with shared hosting, so can't help you there. 
 I did do some work with lighttpd and fast_cgi and the Django docs worked
 fine for that.  But you're right. wsgi is pretty much the standard for
 web services in Python, like DB API is to relational database access. 
 Ruby has Rack. Python has WSGI.

  I believe that indifference on the part of Python to fastcgi is a
  self-inflicted wound. I don't believe that there is any good
  excuse for such indifference, except for a sort of bureaucratic
  inertia. It's sad, when you consider how well python is designed
  and how crappily PHP is designed and how easy it is to set up and
  deploy drupal in the same environment. I speak from my own
  experience.

  respectfully :
-- 
Tim 
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http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Good Python IDE

[Tim Johnson]

* Sourabh Mhaisekar sourabh8...@gmail.com [130106 07:11]:
 Hello All, 
 I am recently started couple of projects in Python, one in Python GTK and one 
 in Python Qt. I want a good IDE (For Windows ) for Python which gives support 
 for Python as well as PyGtk and PyQt. 
 
 Features I am looking for 
 * Support for Core Python Auto-completion.
 * Support for PyGtk and PyQt
 * Support for either Bazaar (preferred) or CVS
  I haven't developed on windows in over 10 years, but as I recall,
  pythonwin worked well for me at the time. I don't recall whether
  the 2nd and 3rd features you refer to were available, but the
  first was. It is easy enough to try.

  Now I use vim for all of my work. I pretty-much hand-rolled my own
  IDE, which is typical of vimmers.
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Good Python IDE

[Tim Johnson]

* Tetsuya i...@noi.com [130106 14:43]:
 On 01/06/2013 11:13 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
Now I use vim for all of my work. I pretty-much hand-rolled my own
IDE, which is typical of vimmers.
 
 I did like you, too.
 I use vim for everything: coding in python, django, js, html, C/C++, 
 bash, even email (inside mutt, of course).
 Yes, Yes...

 Start with an empty ~/.vimrc, and then build up the configuration day by 
 day, adding one single plugin at a time, driven by your daily needs, 
 it's the better thing to do IMHO.
 Thus vim becomes a full fledged IDE for everything, and it does it 
 *your* way, not *its* way.
  :) Great minds run in the same gutter ... 

 BTW, vim is available also under Windows.
  Where I started using it.

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough?

[Tim Johnson]

* Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid [121229 10:02]:
 On 2012-12-27, mogul morten.gulda...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I'm new to python, got 10-20 years perl and C experience, all gained
  on unix alike machines hacking happily in vi, and later on in vim.
 
  Now it's python, and currently mainly on my kubuntu desktop.
 
  Do I really need a real IDE, as the windows guys around me say I do,
 
 No.
 
  or will vim, git, make and other standalone tools make it the next 20
  years too for me? 
 
  I've been using vim for 12 years now. And it works pretty good for
  me as an IDE. I've written a lot of vimscripts to make vim
  better do my bidding and made generous use of contributed scripts.

  I see no reason to think that I would be more productive using
  anything else, but that is just me.

  Along the way, I did use emacs as well and ended doing quite a bit
  of elisping.

  Elisp does have the advantage of asynchronously running the
  interpereter inside of the editor Just one thing that I
  wouldn't mind seeing in vim.

  I do find vim a bit more nimble than emacs, but each to his/her
  own. It's wonderful to have all of the choices.

  
  They'll take away my vim when they pry it from my cold, dead
  fingers.
  
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: popen4 - get exit status

[Tim Johnson]

* Dennis Lee Bieber wlfr...@ix.netcom.com [120828 07:11]:
 On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:43:59 -0800, Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com
 declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
 
  * Benjamin Kaplan benjamin.kap...@case.edu [120827 15:20]:
   The popen* functions are deprecated. You should use the subprocess module
   instead.
No, I'm stuck with py 2.4 on one of the servers I'm using and
 
   Shouldn't be a problem:
 
 -=-=-=-
 17.1 subprocess -- Subprocess management 
 
 New in version 2.4. 

  Thanks Dennis, I had misread the docs, you're right - after
  rereading them I has able to implement subprocess - glad to have
  it as I no longer have any servers to 'service' with anything
  older than 2.4. And Ben, please accept my apologies for seeming so
  dismissive.

  cheers
  tj

 The subprocess module allows you to spawn new processes, connect to
 their input/output/error pipes, and obtain their return codes. This
 module intends to replace several other, older modules and functions,
 such as: 
 -=-=-=-
 -- 
   Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
 wlfr...@ix.netcom.comHTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
 
 -- 
 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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popen4 - get exit status

[Tim Johnson]

In bash I do the following:
linus:journal tim$ /home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl hiccup
-bash: /home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl: No such file or 
directory
linus:journal tim$ echo $?
127

In python, use os.popen4 I do the following:
 fin,fout = os.popen4('/home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl 
 hiccup;echo $?')
 results = fout.readlines()
 results
['/bin/sh: /home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl: No such file or 
directory\n', '127\n']

Well, I got the exit code as the last item in the results, but I'm wondering if
there is a better way. From help(os) - I don't find any variables dedicated to
holding exit status.

Any ideas?
thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: popen4 - get exit status

[Tim Johnson]

* Benjamin Kaplan benjamin.kap...@case.edu [120827 15:20]:
 The popen* functions are deprecated. You should use the subprocess module
 instead.
  No, I'm stuck with py 2.4 on one of the servers I'm using and
  there will not be an upgrade for a few months. I'm really trying
  to set up something portable between linux-python 2.4 and
  darwin-python 2.7
  thanks

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: popen4 - get exit status

[Tim Johnson]

* Dave Angel d...@davea.name [120827 15:20]:
 On 08/27/2012 06:39 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
  In bash I do the following:
  linus:journal tim$ /home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl hiccup
  -bash: /home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl: No such file or 
  directory
  linus:journal tim$ echo $?
  127
 
  In python, use os.popen4 I do the following:
  fin,fout = os.popen4('/home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl 
  hiccup;echo $?')
  results = fout.readlines()
  results
  ['/bin/sh: /home/AKMLS/cgi-bin/perl/processJournal-Photo.pl: No such file 
  or directory\n', '127\n']
 
  Well, I got the exit code as the last item in the results, but I'm 
  wondering if
  there is a better way. From help(os) - I don't find any variables dedicated 
  to
  holding exit status.
 
 According to:
 http://docs.python.org/library/popen2.html
 http://docs.python.org/library/popen2.html
 
  The only way to retrieve the return codes for the child processes is
 by using the poll() or wait() methods on the Popen3
 http://docs.python.org/library/popen2.html#popen2.Popen3 and Popen4
 http://docs.python.org/library/popen2.html#popen2.Popen4 classes;
 these are only available on Unix. This information is not available when
 using the popen2()
 http://docs.python.org/library/popen2.html#module-popen2, popen3()
 http://docs.python.org/library/popen2.html#popen2.popen3, and popen4()
 http://docs.python.org/library/popen2.html#popen2.popen4 functions,
 
 However, unless you're using an old version of Python (2.5 or below),
 you should be using the subprocess module.
   Thanks DaveA and see my reply to Benjamin
   that will do it.
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: which one do you prefer? python with C# or java?

[Tim Johnson]

* Tomasz Rola rto...@ceti.pl [120611 11:18]:
 On Sat, 9 Jun 2012, Yesterday Paid wrote:
 
  I'm planning to learn one more language with my python.
  Someone recommended to do Lisp or Clojure, but I don't think it's a
  good idea(do you?)
  So, I consider C# with ironpython or Java with Jython.
  It's a hard choice...I like Visual studio(because my first lang is VB6
  so I'm familiar with that)
  but maybe java would be more useful out of windows.
  
  what do you think?
 
 If you don't know C yet, I second recommendation to learn it. It is a very 
 70-tish and 80-tish language, but it is still very relevant if you want to 
 call yourself a programmer (rather than a hobbyist, with all credits due 
 to clever genius hobbyists out there). There are things I would rather do 
 in C than in any other language (like, writing a Python interpreter or 
 Linux kernel - wait, what you say they have been written already?). Also, 
 it gives one a way to handtune the code quite a lot (at expense of time, 
 but this is sometimes acceptable), to the point where next choice is 
 assembly (and results not necessarily better)...
 
 Later on, since C and C++ share quite a bit, you can gradually include C++ 
 elements into your code, thus writing in a kinda bettered C (compiled 
 with C++ compiler), using constructs like const to make your programs 
 more correct. And you will learn to not use new for variables, which is 
 good thing. However, some C++ constructs include performance penalty, so 
 it is good to not better it too much.
  I concur, I worked in C and C++ for 12 years. I added C++ later in
  my programming life. I don't recommend C++ for single programmers.
  - that is to say - 1 coder for 1 codebase. One can do good enough
  OOP in ansi C believe it or not, I learned to.

  It is interesting to note that most of linux is written in C,
  rather than C++ and is not python as well?
 
 - Common Lisp - nice industrial standard (depends on one's preferred 
 definition of nice, of course, as well as industrial and standard)
  I took a hard look at Common Lisp at one time. I got the
  impression that the Common Lisp is not to Lisp what Ansi C is to
  C. 
  
  IOWS, there does remain incompatibilities between different
  Common Lisp implementations.

  Whereas Ansi C is pretty strict as code portability (or was so
  when I was working in it)
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Installing MySQLdb via FTP?

[Tim Johnson]

* Corey Richardson co...@octayn.net [120608 11:39]:
 On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 09:55:23 -0800
 Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
 
See the thread titled Python libraries portable? you will note
that Corey Richardson makes the statement that MySQLdb is a C
extension. I accepted that statement, but upon looking at the
directories (I am on Mac Lion, but believe it may be the same for
Linux) I see no binaries, just straight .py and .pyc files.
  
 
 http://mysql-python.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/mysql-python/MySQLdb-2.0/file/566baac88764/src
 
 It definitely is. The C extension part is the '_mysql' module, here it
 is /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/_mysql.so. MySQLdb (of which
 _mysql is a part) uses that to provide a DB-API 2.0 compliant API.
  Understood. I missed that because the shared object file is in
  another directory.
  On mac (darwin) it is
  
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages/

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Installing MySQLdb via FTP?

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com [120609 07:30]:
  
  http://mysql-python.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/mysql-python/MySQLdb-2.0/file/566baac88764/src
  
  It definitely is. The C extension part is the '_mysql' module, here it
  is /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/_mysql.so. MySQLdb (of which
  _mysql is a part) uses that to provide a DB-API 2.0 compliant API.
   Understood. I missed that because the shared object file is in
   another directory.
   On mac (darwin) it is
   
 /opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages/
I would note that some programming languages with mysql APIs
access the mysql client library directly from the PL's code base
(newlisp as an example) or use TCP/IP to query the mysql server
directly (rebol as an example)
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: which one do you prefer? python with C# or java?

[Tim Johnson]

* Yesterday Paid howmuchisto...@gmail.com [120609 14:52]:
 I'm planning to learn one more language with my python.
 Someone recommended to do Lisp or Clojure, but I don't think it's a
 good idea(do you?)
 So, I consider C# with ironpython or Java with Jython.
 It's a hard choice...I like Visual studio(because my first lang is VB6
 so I'm familiar with that)
 but maybe java would be more useful out of windows.
  I am kind on the same wavelength as becky_lewis - and bye the way
  is not clojure based on java?

  Two lesser known programming languages that I have done extensive
  development with in the past are rebol (www.rebol.com) and
  newlisp (http://www.newlisp.org/) newlisp and rebol are both
  *symbolic* languages as well as newlisp is very *functional*
  
  The additional advantage of using newlisp is that the very mention
  of newlisp drives the lispers crazy. Just mention 'newlisp' and
  watch the spittle fly.

  On the other hand, clojure and C# have a much larger user base.
  (small-user-base) is why I don't use newlisp or rebol for any new
  projects.

  MTCW
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Installing MySQLdb via FTP?

[Tim Johnson]

* Prasad, Ramit ramit.pra...@jpmorgan.com [120608 09:38]:
  Is it possible to install MySQLdb via FTP?
  
  1)I have a hostmonster account with SSH. I have been able to log in
  and install MySQLdb from the shell. Works fine.
  
  2)Now I have a client who wants to have a hostmonster account and we
  will need MySQLdb. I *will not* have SSH access since (as I
  understand it) hostmonster allows SSH access from 1 IP only.
  
  3)The hostmonster account services (I.E. cpanel) does not have any
  service to do this.
  
  4)I wouldn't need to make the install on PYTHONPATH as my resources
  will handle sys.path configuration.
  
  This isn't an immediate need so URLs and pointers to relevant
  discussions would suffice.
 
 Why not just write a script that will install it for them and then 
 give them a copy of that script? Alternatively, have the client
 contact hostmonster and have them install it; I imagine a decent
 webhost would be able to do this manually if asked via email/ticket.
 No they would not. In fact, the hoster that I am trying to get my
 client away  from won't either. It would be great to find a
 dependable hoster that *would* do manually installs, but most seem
 to be a one-size fits all.

 I would imagine that if you know where all the files go, it would
 be possible copy all the files over FTP and have it work. Granted,
 I am not familiar with installing this package so I could be wrong.
  See the thread titled Python libraries portable? you will note
  that Corey Richardson makes the statement that MySQLdb is a C
  extension. I accepted that statement, but upon looking at the
  directories (I am on Mac Lion, but believe it may be the same for
  Linux) I see no binaries, just straight .py and .pyc files.

  *However* as it often turns out, I was barking up the wrong tree.

  A very nice gentleman (I presume) emailed me privately to say
  (I'm sure to save me the public embarassment because I should have
  though of it myself) 

  Ssh to your client and from the client ssh hostmonster
   
   and therein is the solution. I guess I would have thought of it
   in the next few days whilst visiting the little boys room or
   mowing the lawn, but Kudos to Rod Person for his solution.

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Installing MySQLdb via FTP?

[Tim Johnson]

Is it possible to install MySQLdb via FTP?

1)I have a hostmonster account with SSH. I have been able to log in
and install MySQLdb from the shell. Works fine.

2)Now I have a client who wants to have a hostmonster account and we
will need MySQLdb. I *will not* have SSH access since (as I
understand it) hostmonster allows SSH access from 1 IP only.

3)The hostmonster account services (I.E. cpanel) does not have any
service to do this.

4)I wouldn't need to make the install on PYTHONPATH as my resources
will handle sys.path configuration.

This isn't an immediate need so URLs and pointers to relevant
discussions would suffice.

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python libraries portable?

[Tim Johnson]

* Corey Richardson co...@octayn.net [120607 14:19]:
 On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 20:20:47 GMT
 jkells jtke...@verizon.net jtke...@verizon.net wrote:
 
  We are new to developing applications with Python.  A question came
  up concerning Python libraries being portable between
  Architectures.More specifically, can we take a python library
  that runs on a X86 architecture and run it on a SPARC architecture or
  do we need to get the native libraries for SPARC?
  
 
 Pure-python libraries should run wherever Python does, if it doesn't,
 that's a bug. C extensions to CPython shouldn't have any platform
 incompatibilities, but of course you'll need to recompile.
  Perhaps this respons to this thread contains a possible solution to my 
question
  subject Installing MySQLdb via FTP?

  Does this mean that I could copy my MySQLdb module directly from
  my workstation via ftp to a server, and have it work, given that
  sys.path contained the path?

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Python libraries portable?

[Tim Johnson]

* Corey Richardson co...@octayn.net [120607 15:20]:
 On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:09:36 -0800
 Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
 
Does this mean that I could copy my MySQLdb module directly from
my workstation via ftp to a server, and have it work, given that
sys.path contained the path?
  
 
 No, absolutely not. MySQLdb is a C extension. Assuming same
 architecture and shared libraries, it will *probably* work, but no
 guarantees. If any of those are different, even slightly, it will break.
  Yeah, you're right - I knew that and I had forgotten!
  Sorry.
  So what to do if I can't install from the command line?
  I could use python's external command tools like
  subprocess.call(), but am not sure what the implications would be
  since privileges might be limited.

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Python libraries portable?

[Tim Johnson]

* Corey Richardson co...@octayn.net [120607 17:01]:
 On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 16:43:26 -0800
 Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
 
So what to do if I can't install from the command line?
I could use python's external command tools like
subprocess.call(), but am not sure what the implications would be
since privileges might be limited.
  
 
 https://github.com/petehunt/PyMySQL/ is your best option, when it comes
 to using mysql without C extensions. I don't even know if it works, but
 it's the only one I could fine.
   Thanks, but I need to add my own thread about how to install on a
   server without the command line being available? I kind of
   hijacked this one.. Will post tomorrow.
   cheers
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Decouplable CMS in python?

[Tim Johnson]

:)I'm sure decouplable is a word. If not it should be.

I have written my own framework. This has been a work in progress as
a consequence of projects that I have done over the last 10 years.
I need a CMS that sits on top of the framework. One of the
starting points that I have considered is finding a fairly simple,
but well-written CMS in python and adapting it. 

It may very well turn out that I would have to start from 'scratch',
nevertheless, reviewing code for such a simple CMS would be
informative. 

I'm thinking that, as an example - django-cms - would be too
complex, regardless of its merits. 

Any recommendations?
thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: MySQLdb on Mac Lion

[Tim Johnson]

* Ned Deily n...@acm.org [111012 18:12]:
 In article 20111013005244.gk6...@johnsons-web.com,
  Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
  I'm most experienced with MySQLdb on ubuntu, which is installed via
  apt-get or synaptic.
  
  I am setting up a mac mini with osX 10.7 (Lion). Macports makes
  py27-mysql 1.2.2 available, but are there any .dmg packages
  available?
 
 I strongly recommend you stick with MacPorts or Homebrew.  There are too 
 many things that can go wrong on OS X 10.6 or 10.7 if you try to install 
 MySQL client libraries, MySQLdb, and Python from different places.  IME, 
 the binary installers for OS X provided by the MySQL are inconsistently 
 built between versions and often need the library paths need to be 
 tweaked.   The only major drawback of using MacPorts is that it will 
 download (and possibly build) its own version of Python but it's a small 
 price to pay: search the archives of Stackoverflow to see how 
 dismayingly often this topic comes up.
  Thanks for that Ned.
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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MySQLdb on Mac Lion

[Tim Johnson]

I'm most experienced with MySQLdb on ubuntu, which is installed via
apt-get or synaptic.

I am setting up a mac mini with osX 10.7 (Lion). Macports makes
py27-mysql 1.2.2 available, but are there any .dmg packages
available?

thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Suggested coding style

[Tim Johnson]

* DevPlayer devpla...@gmail.com [110928 04:31]:
 On Sep 27, 10:25 pm, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote:
  rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
   Since, like the bible
   the zen is self contradicting, any argument utilizing the zen can be
   defeated utilizing the zen.
 
  And like the Bible, the Zen was created by humans as a joke. If you're
  taking it too seriously, that's your problem.
 
   If however you want to learn about the accepted rules for formatting
   code then you need to read PEP-8! PEP 8 is our style guide.
 
 Contradiction is only seen by narrow perspectve.
 
 Calling the Bible a joke is used to hurt people, not enlighten them.
 Those words show bitter arrogance, not constructive critism as it
 ignores how others feel about that book. What benefit to others is
 gained by calling someones belief a joke? 

 My wife and I are devout christians, but not fundamentalist. We
 would not take rantingrick too seriously. If _you_ take him
 seriously, you're just giving him 'street cred'.

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Suggested coding style

[Tim Johnson]

* Devin Jeanpierre jeanpierr...@gmail.com [110924 19:07]:
  Padding numbers with leading zeroes is very common. I'm surprised that
  more languages don't make it a string method.
 
 By making it a string method, instead of a function, we force all
 implementations of strings to implement that method. That sort of
 sucks, and it's a reason not to include it as a method. 
  Why does it suck? And why do people say 'suck' so much, especially
  in technical venues?
  :) Just answer the first question, the second is rhetorical. I
  think that your answer, regardless of whether I agree with it may
  edify me serendipitously.

 It can, after all, be implemented as a function, and in doing so
 (with the appropriate operator overloading) that function could
 work with multiple implementations of strings. Instead any
 implementation of a string must implement that method. That's a
 waste.
 I'm not sure what you mean. I've written my own `split' function. I
 don't believe that there would be any conflict if you wrote your
 own `zfill' function. Or if there would be, I'd want to know before
 I hurt myself.

 regards
-- 
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http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Suggested coding style

[Tim Johnson]

* Devin Jeanpierre jeanpierr...@gmail.com [110925 16:37]:
   Why does it suck?
 
 The gist of what I was saying is that it's possible to define
 functions that do this generically so that one implementation of
 zfill can work with multiple implementations of strings. 

  That is kind of 'spot on' for me. Before I started using python, I
  worked in rebol - where (at that time), there was a limited number
  of function names available because of limited namespacing (and
  the binary was a fraction the size of python). So I learned to
  take that approach.

 Having to
 reimplement every time when one implementation would do is bothersome
 and generally isn't done unless it has to be (thus why mmap lacks a
 zfill method). Having to do more work than necessary sucks, as does
 having partial str implementations that don't do everything str does.
 
 Ideally, I would claim that if some interface will have multiple
 implementations, it should have as few methods as possible to make
 implementation as easy as possible, and move as much as possible
 _away_ from methods and into functions that work with arbitrary
 implementations of the interface. This minimizes the amount of work
 that must be done for implementors and thus makes life better.
 
 It's also true that it's bad practice to have objects with large
 APIs, not for convenience reasons but because it increases object
 coupling, something that good object oriented design seeks to
 eliminate. The idea there is that the less ways you can have your
 object interacted with / interact with other objects, the easier it is
 to think of the way state flows. I agree with this in principle, but
 it doesn't really matter for strings.
 
 The situation I see with something like zfill as-a-method is that it
 has nearly negligible benefit (less imports vs function?) and some
 detriment. So I would conclude it should not exist. Other people look
 at this differently.
  Good response.
  Thank you.
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Suggested coding style

[Tim Johnson]

* Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com [110925 13:50]:
 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Petite Abeille
 petite.abei...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On Sep 25, 2011, at 8:46 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
 
   Why does it suck? And why do people say 'suck' so much, especially in 
  technical venues? :)
 
  It's a technical term:
 
  http://www.osnews.com/images/comics/wtfm.jpg
 
 Also, because technical people are opinionated windbags. Goes with the
 territory. :) 
 I always felt that to be courteous, to the point and reserved cost
 me less typing time. And since I'm self-employed and only charge
 for productive time for clients, that's being cost-conscious for me.

 Of course I've been known to get a little crazy about PHP. So don't
 let me get started...

 BTW: If you like ranting as a spectator sport, I have found the
 Common Lisp newsgroup to be among the most spectacular. But that's
 just me.
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Suggested coding style

[Tim Johnson]

* Passiday passi...@gmail.com [110924 09:47]:
...
 I have been coding in many other languages, most of the time it was
 Java and C#. I don't like the function mess of PHP (ie, loads and
 loads of functions without any namespaces etc), but I'd like to think
 that Python is different.
  It is ... 

 In my brief coding experience I have stumbled upon Python zfill(width)
 method, and I thought, really, do you have to include such a narrow-
 purpose method in the basic method set? Perhaps there are more such
 methods that are nice when you need them, but then again, you don't
 put all the possible methods in the standard set.
  I think that you have raised an interesting question here. I've
  been coding in python for 9 years and I have never used it. 

 Perhaps there is reason such method is in the basic library, and my
 complaints are unbased? 

  It could be some sort of legacy. I imagine we will hear from some
  more senior pythonists on this matter.

 Or, perhaps the language is on course to bloat
 out and get filled with tens and hundreds of special-purpose methods
 that render the language structure chaotic?

  From my observance, python has developed with care and prudence. I
  have a feeling (instinctive of course), that Guido van Rossum
  is/was more likely to say 'no' to a request for a new
  implementation that Rasmus Lerdorf.

  MTCW
-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Suggested coding style

[Tim Johnson]

* Arnaud Delobelle arno...@gmail.com [110924 12:04]:
 On 24 September 2011 20:34, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote:
 
  In my brief coding experience I have stumbled upon Python zfill(width)
  method,
 [...]
    It could be some sort of legacy. I imagine we will hear from some
    more senior pythonists on this matter.
 
  The documentation says New in version 2.2.2.
 
 But zfill has been in the string module for a lot longer.
 :) Like I said. See timestamp.
 http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-bugs-list/1999-July/35.html
 I was coding C/C++ and ASM back then 

-- 
Tim 
tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Reconciling os.path.getmtime vs ftp.sendcmd('MDTM filename')

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com [110914 18:18]:
 * Chris Rebert c...@rebertia.com [110914 16:46]:
  On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
   I have written a class that uses ftplib.FTP as the parent.
   I need to reconcile the modified time of a workstation file with
   that same filename on a remote server.
   Let's say we have a file called '400.shtml'. I get the mtime on
   my workstation by
   os.path.getmtime('400.shtml')
   1311648420.0
  
  http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html#os.path.getmtime
  Your sample seems to be a typical Unix timestamp:
  Yup. Needs to be converted to a timedate stamp, methinks.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
   I'll look at that tomorrow. Late here.  
   And I use
   ftp.sendcmd('MDTM 400.shtml') ## for the remote server
   '213 20110726004703'
  
  RFC 3659 - Extensions to FTP
  Sec 3. File Modification Time (MDTM)
  http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3659#section-3
  
  (Note: Code 213 = File status response)
   and '213 20110726004703'[4:] should give me
   the string representation of the timedate stamp on the
   remote file.
  FYI:  datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mod_time)
  Is probably what I was looking for. However, for my
  purposes - I'm going to take another approach.
  Every uploaded file is defined in an object stored on my
  workstationr:
  I will store the MDTM string after upload and then on the next
  upload, compare the stored string with the return value
  from ftp.sendcmd('MDTM ' + filename)
  Thanks for the input.
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Reconciling os.path.getmtime vs ftp.sendcmd('MDTM filename')

[Tim Johnson]

I have written a class that uses ftplib.FTP as the parent.
I need to reconcile the modified time of a workstation file with
that same filename on a remote server.
Let's say we have a file called '400.shtml'. I get the mtime on
my workstation by
 os.path.getmtime('400.shtml')
1311648420.0
And I use 
 ftp.sendcmd('MDTM 400.shtml') ## for the remote server
'213 20110726004703'

My question is how to compare the two outputs?
Pointers to documentation and other resources are invited.

thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Reconciling os.path.getmtime vs ftp.sendcmd('MDTM filename')

[Tim Johnson]

* Chris Rebert c...@rebertia.com [110914 16:46]:
 On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Tim Johnson t...@akwebsoft.com wrote:
  I have written a class that uses ftplib.FTP as the parent.
  I need to reconcile the modified time of a workstation file with
  that same filename on a remote server.
  Let's say we have a file called '400.shtml'. I get the mtime on
  my workstation by
  os.path.getmtime('400.shtml')
  1311648420.0
 
 http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html#os.path.getmtime
 Your sample seems to be a typical Unix timestamp:
 Yup. Needs to be converted to a timedate stamp, methinks.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
  I'll look at that tomorrow. Late here.  
  And I use
  ftp.sendcmd('MDTM 400.shtml') ## for the remote server
  '213 20110726004703'
 
 RFC 3659 - Extensions to FTP
 Sec 3. File Modification Time (MDTM)
 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3659#section-3
 
 (Note: Code 213 = File status response)
  and '213 20110726004703'[4:] should give me
  the string representation of the timedate stamp on the
  remote file.

  Thanks. I will look at the unix_time entry soon.

-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Thoughts about documentation for non-python resource files

[Tim Johnson]

I'm looking for comments and/or URLs to discussions on this topic.

I use my own MVC system. A component of this system generates
documentation from python docstrings. Of course this system also
comprises many non-python filetypes : css, html, txt, js, xml etc.
Views, which are txt or html files can be handled by my system's
built-in relationships between controllers and views.

For other non-python files which are not found directly to
controllers, css, js, html, xml all support comments and
documentation can be (and is) build into the comments.

Before I proceded and 'roll my own' protocol for generating
documentations for these above-mention filetypes, I'd like to know
if there is any such protocols being used already.

Example : A pythonic way to generate documentations on a javascript
file as well as its functions, objects etc.

Any comments welcome.

thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: what is the advantage of Django when comparing with LAMP and J2EE platform?

[Tim Johnson]

* smith jack thinke...@gmail.com [110802 11:37]:
 There are so many choice to do the same thing, so is there any special
 advantage Django brings to user?

Django is a python framework, J2EE is a java platform (my apologies
if I use 'framework' incorrectly). Our customers want PHP,perl or python,
not java. 

The definition for LAMP given at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAMP_(software_bundle) - for what it is
worth includes python and defines LAMP as sort of generic (as I read
it). 

Thus django *could* be considered a LAMP bundle, perhaps.

-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Hostmonster : Installing MySQLdb at a specific location

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson t...@johnsons-web.com [110731 11:47]:
  I don't want to discourage any further input, but I'm looking at
  https://my.hostmonster.com/cgi/help/000531?step=000531
  regarding installing django and I think the instructions can be
  extrapolated for MySQLdb. I will report what happens...
  I received a link for the Hostmonster helpdesk to 
https://my.hostmonster.com/cgi/help/530

 My experience was that I had to modify some of the paths from
 the original.
 When I ran the 
   python setup.py install
 routine, python complained that it could not find `lib64'
 thusly, I created $HOME/.local/lib/python2.4/site-packages
 Furthermore, seems that setup.py did not copy all files
 from the installation directory. The result was a UserWarning
 regarding multiple imports of the _mysql module when I invoked
 import MySQLdb.

 I solved that by adding the installation directory to my 
 PYTHONPATH.
 A relevant excerpt from .bashrc looks like this:
 #BEGIN - 
 # line one
 export
 PYTHONPATH=$HOME/.local/lib64/python/site-packages:$PYTHONPATH
 # line two
 export
 PYTHONPATH=$HOME/.local/lib64/python2.4/site-packages:$PYTHONPATH
 # line three
 export
 PYTHONPATH=$HOME/admin/.install/MySQL-python-1.2.3:$PYTHONPATH
 # line four
 export PATH=$HOME/.local/bin:$PATH
 #END
 Where $HOME/admin/.install/MySQL-python-1.2.3 is the package
 install directory.

 I have been spoiled by ubuntu. Furthemore, it has been a long time
 since I did a package install where I don't have root privileges.

 Results may vary, I hope this is helpful to someone else.

 cheers

-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Hostmonster : Installing MySQLdb at a specific location

[Tim Johnson]

I've using MySQLdb for years, but always on servers where I had
system-wide access.

I have an account on Hostmonster and would like to do some
development there, but although python2.6 is available, MySQLdb is
not installed. I do not believe there is a system-wide access, nor
do I expect sysadmins to do my any favors. 

I have SSH access and it is a linux OS.
uname -a gives me:

Linux host266.hostmonster.com 2.6.32-42.1.BHsmp #1 SMP Tue Jun 28
17:06:41 MDT 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


A 'local' bin directory is provided. I have downloaded
MySQL-python-1.2.3 and am looking at the docs, but so far I haven't
found any documentation that tells me how (or if) I may install 
to anything other than a default path.

Any comments are welcome.
TIA
tim
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Hostmonster : Installing MySQLdb at a specific location

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson t...@johnsons-web.com [110731 11:01]:
 I've using MySQLdb for years, but always on servers where I had
 system-wide access.
 
 I have an account on Hostmonster and would like to do some
 development there, but although python2.6 is available, MySQLdb is
 not installed. I do not believe there is a system-wide access, nor
 do I expect sysadmins to do my any favors. 
 
 I have SSH access and it is a linux OS.
 uname -a gives me:
 
 Linux host266.hostmonster.com 2.6.32-42.1.BHsmp #1 SMP Tue Jun 28
 17:06:41 MDT 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
 
 
 A 'local' bin directory is provided. I have downloaded
 MySQL-python-1.2.3 and am looking at the docs, but so far I haven't
 found any documentation that tells me how (or if) I may install 
 to anything other than a default path.
 I don't want to discourage any further input, but I'm looking at
 https://my.hostmonster.com/cgi/help/000531?step=000531
 regarding installing django and I think the instructions can be
 extrapolated for MySQLdb. I will report what happens...

-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Function docstring as a local variable

[Tim Johnson]

Consider the following:
## code
def test():
This is my docstring
print(??)  ## can I print the docstring above?
## /code
It possible for a function to print it's own docstring?

thanks
(pointers to docs could be sufficient)
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Function docstring as a local variable

[Tim Johnson]

* Andrew Berg bahamutzero8...@gmail.com [110710 09:59]:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: RIPEMD160
 
 On 2011.07.10 12:41 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
  It possible for a function to print it's own docstring?
  def test():
 ... Hi there.
 ... print(test.__doc__)
  Holy Moly. Of course!
  thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Function docstring as a local variable

[Tim Johnson]

* pyt...@bdurham.com pyt...@bdurham.com [110710 14:17]:
 I'm not sure how a function can get a generic handle to itself, but if
 you're willing to hardcode the function name, then this technique works:
 
 def test():
 This is my doc string
 print test.__doc__
 
 test()
  Works for me. Works for the application I'm after. thanks
  Here's a related question:
  I can get the docstring for an imported module:
   import tmpl as foo
   print(foo.__doc__)
  Python templating features

   Author - tim at akwebsoft dot com

 ## Is it possible to get the module docstring
 ## from the module itself?

 Thanks again
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Function docstring as a local variable

[Tim Johnson]

* Carl Banks pavlovevide...@gmail.com [110710 15:18]:
 On Sunday, July 10, 2011 3:50:18 PM UTC-7, Tim Johnson wrote:
Here's a related question:
I can get the docstring for an imported module:
 import tmpl as foo
 print(foo.__doc__)
Python templating features
  
 Author - tim at akwebsoft dot com
  
   ## Is it possible to get the module docstring
   ## from the module itself?
 
 
 print __doc__
  Thanks Carl. 
  
  Where is general documentation on the subject of variables
  beginning with 2 underscores? 
  
  I'm presuming the key phrase is 'builtin variables'. I'm searching
  too ...

-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Function docstring as a local variable

[Tim Johnson]

* Chris Rebert c...@rebertia.com [110710 16:14]:
 
   Where is general documentation on the subject of variables
   beginning with 2 underscores?
 
 I've never heard that phrase used to describe __doc__ or its friends.
 :) That why I wasn't satified with my search results. 
 Look in the underscore section of the documentation index:
 http://docs.python.org/genindex-_.html
  And that is what I was looking for.
  thanks
-- 
Tim 
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http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module

[Tim Johnson]

* Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com [110704 20:37]:
 
 It sounds like what you really want is to detect the names *exported*
 by the module, then.  i
  Yes! 
 Why not do it the same way Python does it?  If
 the module defines an __all__ attribute, then it is taken to be a
 sequence of strings which are the exported names.  Otherwise, the
 exported names are taken to be all the names in the module dict that
 don't begin with an underscore.

  :) Oh here we go again. Another python feature I didn't know about
  or have forgotten.

  Thanks very much for that.
  Good tip
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
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Testing if a global is defined in a module

[Tim Johnson]

Using Python 2.6 on ubuntu 10.04.
inspect module :
I want to 'inspect' a module and get a list of all
functions, classes and global variables in that module.

## A module has been imported, and we call `getmembers'
members = inspect.getmembers(mod)

## While iterating thru `members', we test to see
## if an object is defined in the module.
for m in members:
  obj = m[1]
  res = inspect.getmodule(obj)
## It appears that getmodule returns None for
## all but functions and classes.

Example, for a module name `mvcInstall', when a class
name `Install' that is defined in the module
is passed as an argument to inspect.getmodule, the
values returned is something like
module 'mvcInstall' from
'/home/tim/prj/cgi/libraries/python/mvcInstall.py'
Likewise for functions defined in the module.

** But ** when global variables such as strings, booleans,
integers are passed as an argument to getmodule, the
value returned is `None'.

What else can I do here?
thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module

[Tim Johnson]

* rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com [110704 12:00]:
 On Jul 4, 1:11 pm, Tim Johnson t...@johnsons-web.com wrote:
 
 Well if you follow the python style guide (and most accepted styles
 for global notation) then it's a trial exercise. You don't even have
 to import anything!!! :)
 
  GLOBAL_STR = 'str'
  GLOBAL_FLOAT = 1.3
  GLoBaL_Bs = ''
  dir()
 ['GLOBAL_FLOAT', 'GLOBAL_STR', 'GLoBaL_Bs', '__builtins__', '__doc__',
 '__name__', '__package__', 'item']
  for item in dir():
   if item.isupper():
   print 'Found Global!', item
  Thanks for the reply: *but*

  dir(targetmodule) will also show globals from other modules imported
  by the target module. So I would need a way to distinguish between
  those imported and those defined in targetmodule
  print(dir(targetmodule)) = 
   ['Install', 'TestAddresses', '__builtins__', '__doc__',
   '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', 'chmod', 'consoleMessage',
   'cp', 'debug', 'erh', 'exists', 'halt', 'is_list', 'load',
   'makePath', 'mkdir', 'process', 'sys', 'traceback', 'usingCgi'] 
   where 'TestAddresses' is a member of an imported module and
   'usingCgi' is the only data variable defined in targetmodule

  regards
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module

[Tim Johnson]

* Chris Rebert c...@rebertia.com [110704 13:16]:
 
  What else can I do here?
 
 Look at the names in the module's import statements using the `ast`
 module, and exclude those from the set of names defined in the module.
 Won't work for `from foo import *`, but that's bad practice and should
 be refactored anyway.
  I'm completely new to the `ast' module, so I will have to research
  that one. 
  Thanks for the tip
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
-- 
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Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module

[Tim Johnson]

* rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com [110704 13:47]:
 On Jul 4, 3:30 pm, Tim Johnson t...@johnsons-web.com wrote:
 
    Thanks for the reply: *but*
    dir(targetmodule) will also show globals from other modules imported
    by the target module. So I would need a way to distinguish between
    those imported and those defined in targetmodule
 
 Okay, then do some processing on the source. You can use regexps or
 the module mentioned earlier by Chris.
  I think I'm making this unnecessarily complicated. I had used
  something like:

  from spam import TestAddresses ## just for grins

  Which is something that I almost never do in practice.

  Also, you pointed out the UC naming convention, which I was
  unacquainted with, being self-employed, self-taught and a one-man
  crew who doesn't spend as much time as he should reading PEPs.

  I'm going to go for the predicate test as second argument to
  getmembers with something like:
def isdata(self,obj,name):
Check if an object is of a type that probably means it's data.
return (not (inspect.ismodule(obj) or inspect.isclass(obj) or
inspect.isroutine(obj) or inspect.isframe(obj) or
inspect.istraceback(obj) or inspect.iscode(obj)))
and name.issupper()
## Untested code

thanks again
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com
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