Re: [python-uk] PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'Abc.xlsx'

[Jonathan Hartley]

You might consider the idea that a script which modifies the spreadsheet should 
read from one file, and write to a different one. This might not fit your 
scenario, but if it does, then the write will never encounter the locking 
exception.

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022, at 03:58, SW wrote:
> Responding to list in case this helps someone else as well:
> 
> When you open a file in Window ("when the excel is already open following 
> error") there will generally (or maybe always, I don't recall precisely) be 
> an exclusive lock taken on the file.
> This means that while another application has a file open you'll get this 
> sort of error when you try to access the file in any way.
> 
> Therefore, the solution is to make sure not to have the file open in another 
> application while trying to run your script on it.
> 
> For more information you'll want to search for things like "Windows file 
> locking".
> 
> Thanks,
> S
> On 09/02/2022 09:42, Arshad Noman wrote:
>> When I enter data using Tkinter form in an Excel file when the excel file is 
>> closed there is no error but when I enter data using Tkinter form when the 
>> excel is already open following error comes:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Exception in Tkinter callback
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "C:\Users\Dani Brothers\Anaconda3\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1705, 
>> in __call__
>> return self.func(*args)
>> File "D:/Python/Book Bank/New folder/PyCharm/Final/Excel.py", line 61, in 
>> SaveBook
>> workbook.save(filename="BookBank.xlsx")
>> File "C:\Users\Dani 
>> Brothers\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\openpyxl\workbook\workbook.py", line 
>> 392, in save
>> save_workbook(self, filename)
>> File "C:\Users\Dani 
>> Brothers\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\openpyxl\writer\excel.py", line 291, in 
>> save_workbook
>> archive = ZipFile(filename, 'w', ZIP_DEFLATED, allowZip64=True)
>> File "C:\Users\Dani Brothers\Anaconda3\lib\zipfile.py", line 1207, in 
>> __init__
>> self.fp = io.open(file, filemode)
>> PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'Abc.xlsx'
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> What to do to correct this error? I have already searched on google search 
>> many times but no solution was found.
>> 
>> ___
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> 
> 
> ___
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> 

--
Jonathan Hartley  USA, Central(UTC-6)
twitter:@tartley  https://tartley.com___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Austin -- CPython frame stack sampler v2.0.0 is now available

[Jonathan Hartley]

On Sat, Oct 17, 2020, at 05:24, Gabriele wrote:
> I am delighted to announce the release 2.0.0 of Austin. 

👏 Applause!

--
Jonathan Hartley  USA, Central(UTC-5)
@tartley  http://tartley.com
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 06/13/2017 09:04 AM, Mark Lawrence via python-uk wrote:

On 07/06/2017 18:50, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
I recently submitted a solution to a coding challenge, in an 
employment context. One of the questions was to model a simple stack. 
I wrote a solution which appended and popped from the end of a list. 
This worked, but failed with timeouts on their last few automated 
tests with large (hidden) data sets.


 From memory, I think I had something pretty standard:

class Stack:

def __init__(self):
 self.storage = []

def push(arg):
 self.storage.append(arg)

def pop():
return self.storage.pop() if self.storage else None

def add_to_first_n(n, amount):
for n in range(n):
 self.storage[n] += amount

def dispatch(self, line)
 tokens = line.split()
 method = getattr(self, tokens[0])
 args = tokens[1:]
 method(*args)

def main(lines):
 stack = Stack()
for line in lines:
 stack.dispatch(line)


(will that formatting survive? Apologies if not)

Subsequent experiments have confirmed that appending to and popping 
from the end of lists are O(1), amortized.


So why is my solution too slow?

This question was against the clock, 4th question of 4 in an hour. So 
I wasn't expecting to produce Cython or C optimised code in that 
timeframe (Besides, my submitted .py file runs on their servers, so 
the environment is limited.)


So what am I missing, from a performance perspective? Are there other 
data structures in stdlib which are also O(1) but with a better 
constant?


Ah. In writing this out, I have begun to suspect that my slicing of 
'tokens' to produce 'args' in the dispatch is needlessly wasting 
time. Not much, but some.


Thoughts welcome,

 Jonathan

--
Jonathan hartleytart...@tartley.com http://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley



Any objections to me putting this thread up on the main Python mailing 
list and reddit as it seems rather interesting?




I'd rather not if I get any say in that, because I agreed in the T&C of 
the coding challenge that I wouldn't discuss the problem or solutions 
with others, and I don't want to annoy them right now. How about in a 
month? :-)



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

Very interesting! Thanks for digging deeper and sharing.

I was thinking about horrible complicated structures like storing the 
'add_to_first_n' params in parallel to the stack, to apply them at 'pop' 
time, which doesn't work at all. As is so often the case with these 
things, your solution of pushing those markers onto the stack makes me 
feel silly for not realising sooner.


Thanks to everyone for the interesting discussion.

Jonathan



On 2017-06-08 13:17, Stestagg wrote:

I tracked down the challenge on the site, and have a working solution
(I won't share for obvious reasons). Basically the timeouts were being
caused by 'add_to_first_n' being called in horrible ways in the test
cases.

Because add_to_first_n alters the bottom of the stack, you can just
push a marker onto the stack rather than iterating and mutating each
entry, doing this made those test cases pass

Personally, I think it's not a well-described problem, because it's
expecting you to tune the algo to specific shapes of data without
allowing any visibility on the data, or a description of what to code
for.  An algo junkie may jump straight to the optimized version, but a
pragmatic developer would, in my opinion, hesitate to do that without
any actual evidence that the problem required it.

Steve

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 5:27 PM Jonathan Hartley 
wrote:


Yep, that's a great elimination of the suspicious small overheads.

line_profiler is beautiful, I'll definitely be adding it to my
toolbox, thanks for that!

I tried a variant of accumulating the output and printing it all as
a single string, but of course this didn't help, printing is already
buffered.

Jonathan

On 6/8/2017 03:54, Stestagg wrote:

I honestly can't see a way to improve this in python.  My best
solution is:

def main(lines):
stack = []
sa = stack.append
sp = stack.pop
si = stack.__getitem__
for line in lines:
meth = line[:3]
if meth == b'pus':
sa(int(line[5:]))
elif meth == b'pop':
sp()
else:
parts = line[15:].split()
end = len(stack)-1
amount = int(parts[1])
for x in range(int(parts[0])):
index = end - x
stack[index] += amount
print(stack[-1] if stack else None)

which comes out about 25% faster than your solution.

One tool that's interesting to use here is: line_profiler:
https://github.com/rkern/line_profiler

putting a @profile decorator on the above main() call, and running
with kernprof produces the following output:

Line #  Hits Time  Per Hit   % Time  Line Contents

==

12   @profile

13   def main(lines):

14 14  4.0  0.0  stack = []

15   201   949599  0.5 11.5  for line in
lines:

16   200  1126944  0.6 13.7  meth =
line[:3]

17   200   974635  0.5 11.8  if meth ==
b'pus':

18   100  1002733  1.0 12.2
stack.append(int(line[5:]))

19   100   478756  0.5  5.8  elif meth
== b'pop':

2099   597114  0.6  7.2
stack.pop()

21   else:

22 16  6.0  0.0  parts =
line[15:].split()

23 12  2.0  0.0  end =
len(stack)-1

24 11  1.0  0.0  amount
= int(parts[1])

2551   241227  0.5  2.9  for x
in range(int(parts[0])):

2650   273477  0.5  3.3
index = end - x

2750   309033  0.6  3.7
stack[index] += amount

28   200  2295803  1.1 27.8
print(stack[-1])

which shows that there's no obvious bottleneck (line by line) here
(for my sample data).

Note the print() overhead dominates the runtime, and that's with me
piping the output to /dev/null directly.

I had a go at using arrays, deques, and numpy arrays in various ways
without luck, but we're getting fairly close to the native python
statement execution overhead here (hence folding it all into one
function).

My only thoughts would be to see if there were some magic that could
be done by offloading the work onto a non-python library somehow.

Another thing that might help some situations (hence my previous
questions) would be to implement the add_to_first_n as a lazy
operator (i.e. have a stack of the add_to_first_n values and
dynamically add to the results of pop() but that would proabably be
much slow in the average case.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:34 PM Jonathan Hartley
 wrote:

Hey.

Thanks for engaging, but I can't help with the most important of
those questions - the large data sets on which my solution failed
due to timeout are hidden from candidates. Not unreasonable to
assume that they do exercise deep stacks

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

You are right, when popping an empty stack I should probably raise.



On 2017-06-08 13:06, Samuel F wrote:

It may have failed for a different reason, (hard to say without the
original question and answer).

In the case where the stack is empty, you are returning None, was that
the requirement? (Likely to have been -1)

Sam

On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 at 17:27, Jonathan Hartley 
wrote:


Yep, that's a great elimination of the suspicious small overheads.

line_profiler is beautiful, I'll definitely be adding it to my
toolbox, thanks for that!

I tried a variant of accumulating the output and printing it all as
a single string, but of course this didn't help, printing is already
buffered.

Jonathan

On 6/8/2017 03:54, Stestagg wrote:

I honestly can't see a way to improve this in python.  My best
solution is:

def main(lines):
stack = []
sa = stack.append
sp = stack.pop
si = stack.__getitem__
for line in lines:
meth = line[:3]
if meth == b'pus':
sa(int(line[5:]))
elif meth == b'pop':
sp()
else:
parts = line[15:].split()
end = len(stack)-1
amount = int(parts[1])
for x in range(int(parts[0])):
index = end - x
stack[index] += amount
print(stack[-1] if stack else None)

which comes out about 25% faster than your solution.

One tool that's interesting to use here is: line_profiler:
https://github.com/rkern/line_profiler

putting a @profile decorator on the above main() call, and running
with kernprof produces the following output:

Line #  Hits Time  Per Hit   % Time  Line Contents

==

12   @profile

13   def main(lines):

14 14  4.0  0.0  stack = []

15   201   949599  0.5 11.5  for line in
lines:

16   200  1126944  0.6 13.7  meth =
line[:3]

17   200   974635  0.5 11.8  if meth ==
b'pus':

18   100  1002733  1.0 12.2
stack.append(int(line[5:]))

19   100   478756  0.5  5.8  elif meth
== b'pop':

2099   597114  0.6  7.2
stack.pop()

21   else:

22 16  6.0  0.0  parts =
line[15:].split()

23 12  2.0  0.0  end =
len(stack)-1

24 11  1.0  0.0  amount
= int(parts[1])

2551   241227  0.5  2.9  for x
in range(int(parts[0])):

2650   273477  0.5  3.3
index = end - x

2750   309033  0.6  3.7
stack[index] += amount

28   200  2295803  1.1 27.8
print(stack[-1])

which shows that there's no obvious bottleneck (line by line) here
(for my sample data).

Note the print() overhead dominates the runtime, and that's with me
piping the output to /dev/null directly.

I had a go at using arrays, deques, and numpy arrays in various ways
without luck, but we're getting fairly close to the native python
statement execution overhead here (hence folding it all into one
function).

My only thoughts would be to see if there were some magic that could
be done by offloading the work onto a non-python library somehow.

Another thing that might help some situations (hence my previous
questions) would be to implement the add_to_first_n as a lazy
operator (i.e. have a stack of the add_to_first_n values and
dynamically add to the results of pop() but that would proabably be
much slow in the average case.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:34 PM Jonathan Hartley
 wrote:

Hey.

Thanks for engaging, but I can't help with the most important of
those questions - the large data sets on which my solution failed
due to timeout are hidden from candidates. Not unreasonable to
assume that they do exercise deep stacks, and large args to
add_to_first_n, etc.

Yes, the input looks exactly like your example. All args are
integers. The question asked for output corresponding to the top of
the stack after every operation. I omitted this print from inside
the 'for' loop in 'main', thinking it irrelevant.

I converted to integers inside 'dispatch'. 'args' must have actually
been created with:

args = [int(i) for i in tokens[1:]]

Where len(tokens) is never going to be bigger than 3.

Return values (from 'pop') were unused.

On 6/7/2017 13:25, Stestagg wrote:

Do you have any more context?
For example, is the add_to_first_n likely to be called with very
large numbers, or very often? Does the stack get very deep, or stay
shallow?

I'm assuming that lines look like this:

push 1
push 2
add_to_first_n 2 10
pop
pop

with all arguments as integers, and the final value being returned
from main()?
How did you convert from string inputs to numeric values?
How did you manage return v

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

Yep, that's a great elimination of the suspicious small overheads.

line_profiler is beautiful, I'll definitely be adding it to my toolbox, 
thanks for that!


I tried a variant of accumulating the output and printing it all as a 
single string, but of course this didn't help, printing is already buffered.


Jonathan


On 6/8/2017 03:54, Stestagg wrote:
I honestly can't see a way to improve this in python.  My best 
solution is:


def main(lines):
stack = []
sa = stack.append
sp = stack.pop
si = stack.__getitem__
for line in lines:
meth = line[:3]
if meth == b'pus':
sa(int(line[5:]))
elif meth == b'pop':
sp()
else:
parts = line[15:].split()
end = len(stack)-1
amount = int(parts[1])
for x in range(int(parts[0])):
index = end - x
stack[index] += amount
print(stack[-1] if stack else None)

which comes out about 25% faster than your solution.

One tool that's interesting to use here is: line_profiler: 
https://github.com/rkern/line_profiler


putting a @profile decorator on the above main() call, and running 
with kernprof produces the following output:


Line #Hits TimePer Hit % TimeLine Contents

==

12 @profile

13 def main(lines):

14 144.00.0stack = []

15 201 9495990.5 11.5for line in lines:

16 20011269440.6 13.7meth = line[:3]

17 200 9746350.5 11.8if meth == b'pus':

18 10010027331.0 12.2stack.append(int(line[5:]))

19 100 4787560.55.8elif meth == b'pop':

2099 5971140.67.2stack.pop()

21 else:

22 166.00.0parts = line[15:].split()

23 122.00.0end = len(stack)-1

24 111.00.0amount = int(parts[1])

2551 2412270.52.9for x in range(int(parts[0])):

2650 2734770.53.3index = end - x

2750 3090330.63.7stack[index] += amount

28 20022958031.1 27.8print(stack[-1])


which shows that there's no obvious bottleneck (line by line) here 
(for my sample data).


Note the print() overhead dominates the runtime, and that's with me 
piping the output to /dev/null directly.


I had a go at using arrays, deques, and numpy arrays in various ways 
without luck, but we're getting fairly close to the native python 
statement execution overhead here (hence folding it all into one 
function).


My only thoughts would be to see if there were some magic that could 
be done by offloading the work onto a non-python library somehow.


Another thing that might help some situations (hence my previous 
questions) would be to implement the add_to_first_n as a lazy operator 
(i.e. have a stack of the add_to_first_n values and dynamically add to 
the results of pop() but that would proabably be much slow in the 
average case.


Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:34 PM Jonathan Hartley <mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:


Hey.

Thanks for engaging, but I can't help with the most important of
those questions - the large data sets on which my solution failed
due to timeout are hidden from candidates. Not unreasonable to
assume that they do exercise deep stacks, and large args to
add_to_first_n, etc.

Yes, the input looks exactly like your example. All args are
integers. The question asked for output corresponding to the top
of the stack after every operation. I omitted this print from
inside the 'for' loop in 'main', thinking it irrelevant.

I converted to integers inside 'dispatch'. 'args' must have
actually been created with:

args = [int(i) for i in tokens[1:]]

Where len(tokens) is never going to be bigger than 3.

Return values (from 'pop') were unused.


On 6/7/2017 13:25, Stestagg wrote:

Do you have any more context?
For example, is the add_to_first_n likely to be called with very
large numbers, or very often? Does the stack get very deep, or
stay shallow?

I'm assuming that lines look like this:

push 1
push 2
add_to_first_n 2 10
pop
pop

with all arguments as integers, and the final value being
returned from main()?
    How did you convert from string inputs to numeric values?
How did you manage return values?

:D

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM Jonathan Hartley
mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:

I recently submitted a solution to a coding challenge, in an
employment context. One of the questions was to model a
simple stack. I wrote a solution which appended and popped
from the end of a list. This worked, but failed with timeouts
on their last few automated tests with large (hidden) data sets.

From memory, I think I had something pretty standard:

class Stack:

def __init__(self):
self.storage = []

 

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

Good point. FWIW, my submission was running Python 3.


On 6/8/2017 04:33, Toby Dickenson wrote:

In python 2, your use of range() without checking for a very large
parameter n might cause either a MemoryError exception, or trigger a
huge memory allocation just for the range list. Not a problem in
python 3 of course.


On 8 June 2017 at 09:54, Stestagg  wrote:

I honestly can't see a way to improve this in python.  My best solution is:

def main(lines):
 stack = []
 sa = stack.append
 sp = stack.pop
 si = stack.__getitem__
 for line in lines:
 meth = line[:3]
 if meth == b'pus':
 sa(int(line[5:]))
 elif meth == b'pop':
 sp()
 else:
 parts = line[15:].split()
 end = len(stack)-1
 amount = int(parts[1])
 for x in range(int(parts[0])):
 index = end - x
 stack[index] += amount
 print(stack[-1] if stack else None)

which comes out about 25% faster than your solution.

One tool that's interesting to use here is: line_profiler:
https://github.com/rkern/line_profiler

putting a @profile decorator on the above main() call, and running with
kernprof produces the following output:

Line #  Hits Time  Per Hit   % Time  Line Contents

==

 12   @profile

 13   def main(lines):

 14 14  4.0  0.0  stack = []

 15   201   949599  0.5 11.5  for line in lines:

 16   200  1126944  0.6 13.7  meth = line[:3]

 17   200   974635  0.5 11.8  if meth == b'pus':

 18   100  1002733  1.0 12.2
stack.append(int(line[5:]))

 19   100   478756  0.5  5.8  elif meth ==
b'pop':

 2099   597114  0.6  7.2  stack.pop()

 21   else:

 22 16  6.0  0.0  parts =
line[15:].split()

 23 12  2.0  0.0  end =
len(stack)-1

 24 11  1.0  0.0  amount =
int(parts[1])

 2551   241227  0.5  2.9  for x in
range(int(parts[0])):

 2650   273477  0.5  3.3  index = end
- x

 2750   309033  0.6  3.7
stack[index] += amount

 28   200  2295803  1.1 27.8  print(stack[-1])


which shows that there's no obvious bottleneck (line by line) here (for my
sample data).

Note the print() overhead dominates the runtime, and that's with me piping
the output to /dev/null directly.

I had a go at using arrays, deques, and numpy arrays in various ways without
luck, but we're getting fairly close to the native python statement
execution overhead here (hence folding it all into one function).

My only thoughts would be to see if there were some magic that could be done
by offloading the work onto a non-python library somehow.

Another thing that might help some situations (hence my previous questions)
would be to implement the add_to_first_n as a lazy operator (i.e. have a
stack of the add_to_first_n values and dynamically add to the results of
pop() but that would proabably be much slow in the average case.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:34 PM Jonathan Hartley  wrote:

Hey.

Thanks for engaging, but I can't help with the most important of those
questions - the large data sets on which my solution failed due to timeout
are hidden from candidates. Not unreasonable to assume that they do exercise
deep stacks, and large args to add_to_first_n, etc.

Yes, the input looks exactly like your example. All args are integers. The
question asked for output corresponding to the top of the stack after every
operation. I omitted this print from inside the 'for' loop in 'main',
thinking it irrelevant.

I converted to integers inside 'dispatch'. 'args' must have actually been
created with:

args = [int(i) for i in tokens[1:]]

Where len(tokens) is never going to be bigger than 3.

Return values (from 'pop') were unused.


On 6/7/2017 13:25, Stestagg wrote:

Do you have any more context?
For example, is the add_to_first_n likely to be called with very large
numbers, or very often? Does the stack get very deep, or stay shallow?

I'm assuming that lines look like this:

push 1
push 2
add_to_first_n 2 10
pop
pop

with all arguments as integers, and the final value being returned from
main()?
How did you convert from string inputs to numeric values?
How did you manage return values?

:D

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM Jonathan Hartley 
wrote:

I recen

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

I cannot be sure. It is certainly used by many people. They are 
competent in that it is a comprehensive online framework, allowing 
candidates to submit solutions using an online editor, in any one of 
about ten different languages. They are so large that there was no 
obvious way to talk to anyone about my individual experience. I don't 
knowingly know any other candidates who have submitted.


I don't want to identify them because the first step of the quiz is to 
accept the T&C that you won't reveal the answers to others (oops.), but 
suffice to say they are very large Indeed.



On 6/8/2017 03:48, Andy Robinson wrote:

Are you sure that their test infrastructure was behaving correctly?
Is it widely used, day in day out, by thousands, and known to be
reliable?  Did your colleagues all brag "no problem"?  Or is it
possible that the whole execution framework threw a momentary wobbly
while trying to load up some large text file off some remote cloud?

Andy
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

I wondered about that too, but decided (without measuring) that it is no 
better. A deque allows us to append and pop elements from both ends, but 
the question didn't require that, it only needed from one end, which a 
list provides at O(1).



On 6/8/2017 03:30, Simon Hayward wrote:

Rather than using a list, aren't deques more appropriate as a data
structure for stack like behaviour.

https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/collections.html#collections.deque


Regards
Simon


On Wed, 7 Jun 2017, at 19:33, Jonathan Hartley wrote:

Hey.

Thanks for engaging, but I can't help with the most important of those
questions - the large data sets on which my solution failed due to
timeout are hidden from candidates. Not unreasonable to assume that they
do exercise deep stacks, and large args to add_to_first_n, etc.

Yes, the input looks exactly like your example. All args are integers.
The question asked for output corresponding to the top of the stack
after every operation. I omitted this print from inside the 'for' loop
in 'main', thinking it irrelevant.

I converted to integers inside 'dispatch'. 'args' must have actually
been created with:

args = [int(i) for i in tokens[1:]]

Where len(tokens) is never going to be bigger than 3.

Return values (from 'pop') were unused.


On 6/7/2017 13:25, Stestagg wrote:

Do you have any more context?
For example, is the add_to_first_n likely to be called with very large
numbers, or very often? Does the stack get very deep, or stay shallow?

I'm assuming that lines look like this:

push 1
push 2
add_to_first_n 2 10
pop
pop

with all arguments as integers, and the final value being returned
from main()?
How did you convert from string inputs to numeric values?
How did you manage return values?

:D

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM Jonathan Hartley mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:

 I recently submitted a solution to a coding challenge, in an
 employment context. One of the questions was to model a simple
 stack. I wrote a solution which appended and popped from the end
 of a list. This worked, but failed with timeouts on their last few
 automated tests with large (hidden) data sets.

 From memory, I think I had something pretty standard:

 class Stack:

 def __init__(self):
 self.storage = []

 def push(arg):
 self.storage.append(arg)

 def pop():
 return self.storage.pop() if self.storage else None

 def add_to_first_n(n, amount):
 for n in range(n):
 self.storage[n] += amount

 def dispatch(self, line)
 tokens = line.split()
 method = getattr(self, tokens[0])
 args = tokens[1:]
 method(*args)

 def main(lines):
 stack = Stack()
 for line in lines:
 stack.dispatch(line)


 (will that formatting survive? Apologies if not)

 Subsequent experiments have confirmed that appending to and
 popping from the end of lists are O(1), amortized.

 So why is my solution too slow?

 This question was against the clock, 4th question of 4 in an hour.
 So I wasn't expecting to produce Cython or C optimised code in
 that timeframe (Besides, my submitted .py file runs on their
 servers, so the environment is limited.)

 So what am I missing, from a performance perspective? Are there
 other data structures in stdlib which are also O(1) but with a
 better constant?

 Ah. In writing this out, I have begun to suspect that my slicing
 of 'tokens' to produce 'args' in the dispatch is needlessly
 wasting time. Not much, but some.

 Thoughts welcome,

 Jonathan

 --
 Jonathan hartleytart...@tartley.com <mailto:tart...@tartley.com> 
http://tartley.com
 Made out of meat.+1 507-513-1101  
twitter/skype: tartley

 ___
 python-uk mailing list
 python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey.

Thanks for engaging, but I can't help with the most important of those 
questions - the large data sets on which my solution failed due to 
timeout are hidden from candidates. Not unreasonable to assume that they 
do exercise deep stacks, and large args to add_to_first_n, etc.


Yes, the input looks exactly like your example. All args are integers. 
The question asked for output corresponding to the top of the stack 
after every operation. I omitted this print from inside the 'for' loop 
in 'main', thinking it irrelevant.


I converted to integers inside 'dispatch'. 'args' must have actually 
been created with:


args = [int(i) for i in tokens[1:]]

Where len(tokens) is never going to be bigger than 3.

Return values (from 'pop') were unused.


On 6/7/2017 13:25, Stestagg wrote:

Do you have any more context?
For example, is the add_to_first_n likely to be called with very large 
numbers, or very often? Does the stack get very deep, or stay shallow?


I'm assuming that lines look like this:

push 1
push 2
add_to_first_n 2 10
pop
pop

with all arguments as integers, and the final value being returned 
from main()?

How did you convert from string inputs to numeric values?
How did you manage return values?

:D

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM Jonathan Hartley <mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:


I recently submitted a solution to a coding challenge, in an
employment context. One of the questions was to model a simple
stack. I wrote a solution which appended and popped from the end
of a list. This worked, but failed with timeouts on their last few
automated tests with large (hidden) data sets.

From memory, I think I had something pretty standard:

class Stack:

def __init__(self):
self.storage = []

def push(arg):
self.storage.append(arg)

def pop():
return self.storage.pop() if self.storage else None

def add_to_first_n(n, amount):
for n in range(n):
self.storage[n] += amount

def dispatch(self, line)
tokens = line.split()
method = getattr(self, tokens[0])
args = tokens[1:]
method(*args)

def main(lines):
stack = Stack()
for line in lines:
stack.dispatch(line)


(will that formatting survive? Apologies if not)

Subsequent experiments have confirmed that appending to and
popping from the end of lists are O(1), amortized.

So why is my solution too slow?

This question was against the clock, 4th question of 4 in an hour.
So I wasn't expecting to produce Cython or C optimised code in
that timeframe (Besides, my submitted .py file runs on their
servers, so the environment is limited.)

So what am I missing, from a performance perspective? Are there
other data structures in stdlib which are also O(1) but with a
better constant?

Ah. In writing this out, I have begun to suspect that my slicing
of 'tokens' to produce 'args' in the dispatch is needlessly
wasting time. Not much, but some.

Thoughts welcome,

Jonathan

-- 
Jonathan hartleytart...@tartley.com <mailto:tart...@tartley.com> http://tartley.com

Made out of meat.+1 507-513-1101  
twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] A stack with better performance than using a list

[Jonathan Hartley]

I recently submitted a solution to a coding challenge, in an employment 
context. One of the questions was to model a simple stack. I wrote a 
solution which appended and popped from the end of a list. This worked, 
but failed with timeouts on their last few automated tests with large 
(hidden) data sets.


From memory, I think I had something pretty standard:

class Stack:

def __init__(self):
self.storage = []

def push(arg):
self.storage.append(arg)

def pop():
return self.storage.pop() if self.storage else None

def add_to_first_n(n, amount):
for n in range(n):
self.storage[n] += amount

def dispatch(self, line)
tokens = line.split()
method = getattr(self, tokens[0])
args = tokens[1:]
method(*args)

def main(lines):
stack = Stack()
for line in lines:
stack.dispatch(line)


(will that formatting survive? Apologies if not)

Subsequent experiments have confirmed that appending to and popping from 
the end of lists are O(1), amortized.


So why is my solution too slow?

This question was against the clock, 4th question of 4 in an hour. So I 
wasn't expecting to produce Cython or C optimised code in that timeframe 
(Besides, my submitted .py file runs on their servers, so the 
environment is limited.)


So what am I missing, from a performance perspective? Are there other 
data structures in stdlib which are also O(1) but with a better constant?


Ah. In writing this out, I have begun to suspect that my slicing of 
'tokens' to produce 'args' in the dispatch is needlessly wasting time. 
Not much, but some.


Thoughts welcome,

    Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Using WSL for one month

[Jonathan Hartley]

About a month ago I asked this list for advice on developing 
Python/Linux web services on a team which had been entirely C#/Windows. 
I was very grateful for the replies. I thought I'd let you know how it's 
panning out, especially with using Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL.)


I stuck to my guns, and deploy the Python service on Linux. Despite 
that, I use Windows 10 on my laptop (against my personal inclination), 
so that I can install Visual Studio and get a version of everyone else's 
C# services running locally. Conversely, if anyone else needs to run my 
Python services, they just replicate my setup (described below.) So we 
only have one kind of development environment across the whole team.


My intention was to do development on a Linux VM. But I started out 
using WSL instead, as much to investigate what it is as anything. I 
didn't expect this would last long, but it's been 6 weeks now, and will 
probably stay for the foreseeable future. WSL is a new component in 
Windows that re-implements Posix system calls within the NT kernel, and 
links ELF binaries against them, so it can run compiled native Linux 
executables. WSL provides a full Ubuntu filesystem, complete with 
permissions, symlinks, fifos and everything, you'd expect. This 
filesystem has a /mnt/c for accessing your C drive.


So I'm able to do all my development on that. Enable WSL, sudo apt 
install ansible, and then you can run my ansible commands to create a 
working dev environment, deploy to localhost or elsewhere. Pip installs 
that require compilation work fine, and my service runs under uwsgi 
quite happily. No VMs required.


There are wrinkles with using WSL though:

* It's console apps only, no X. (Although apparently it's easy to get X 
to run, and some simple graphical applications work)


* I had problems using Upstart (We're on Ubuntu 14.04, for other 
reasons), and suspect Systemd would suffer similarly. Because there 
isn't really a 'boot process'. So for now, in local envs, I just 
start/restart my service manually on deploy, using 
"/sbin/start-stop-daemon", which is new to me, but has performed 
flawlessly.


* Probably because of the Upstart/Systemd issues, there isn't a 
logrotate process running. Instead of getting one running, for now I'm 
cheating and simply not rotating logs in local envs.


* PostgreSQL doesn't run. Some system calls aren't implemented that it 
needs related to shared memory. So as a workaround, I installed the 
Windows version of PostgreSQL. Requires zero config and my Linux client 
connects to it on localhost just fine.


* Containers don't work. Lots of system calls they need are not 
implemented, and I don't know where this is on Redmond's priorities.


* The built-in Windows terminal is almost as bloody awful as you 
remember. At first I tried the popular and very flexible 3rd party 
terminal 'con-emu', but it has problems with WSL, and despite much 
wrangling, I couldn't get it to work reliably with all three of {WSL, 
256 colours, special keys like cursors}. So I fell back to wsl-terminal, 
a new terminal project written specifically to work with WSL. It's 
limited, but not in ways that bother me, and everything works out of the 
box. I installed my dotfiles repo, and fired up NeoVim, in solarized 
colors, with all my plugins, and everything works great.


* Having said that, syncing the Windows clipboard to the X one is 
problematic, not least because X is not running! Apparently this is 
fixable, because it's easy to get X running, but I've been too lazy, and 
have been working around it by occasionally *dragging* selected text 
between Windows/Linux applications, instead of using the clipboard.


I hope this is useful or interesting if you find yourself in a similar 
situation.


Best regards,

Jonathan Hartley

--
Jonathan Hartley
tart...@tartley.com
+1 507-513-1101
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python Platform Developer - Counter Terrorism

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 15/02/17 14:57, Visgean Skeloru wrote:


This is a very strange disclaimer for an email send to public mailing 
list.


DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are
confidential (and may contain privileged information) to the
ordinary user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and
must not be copied, disclosed or distributed without the prior
authorisation of the sender.


On 14/02/17 17:11, John Thistlethwaite wrote:
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are 
confidential (and may contain privileged information) to the ordinary 
user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and must not be 
copied, disclosed or distributed without the prior authorisation of 
the sender.




___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


Seems to be safely negated by my own disclaimer.

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartleyy

READ CAREFULLY: By reading this email, you agree, on behalf of your 
employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from 
any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licences, terms-of-service, 
shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, 
non-compete and acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have 
entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and 
assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and 
privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release 
me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Thanks all

[Jonathan Hartley]

Glad to hear it, Hansel - congrats.

And similar thanks to the list from myself. I was expecting to have to 
pursue something I can work from home, ie. remote work, due to currently 
having a lifestyle built around supervising my kid and school runs. But 
I was able to reach an unconventional but palatable arrangement with a 
local start-up here in Rochester, MN, USA.


So, three cheers for http://able.ag, the nascent software division of 
Bright Agrotech, who provide supplies for those funky indoor "vertical 
farms" with plants growing in highly managed racks. It is, I've come to 
understand, the future.


(This is the shop I asked for advice about last week that is currently 
C# and F# but want me to add some Python services)


Jonathan


On 02/10/2017 07:26 AM, Hansel Dunlop wrote:

Hello

Thanks for everyone's help with the job search last month. I can 
happily report that I found a new work home because of it.


I talked to lots of companies but one really stood out as being a 
fantastic idea with a really nice team behind it.


Sten and Stuart from Tego Cover <https://www.tegocover.com/>, both ex 
OneFineStay, are looking for someone to continue developing the 
product. Stuart is technical and Sten is operations.


Get in touch if you want their details or just approach them directly. 
They're also open to contractors.


Thanks again

Hansel

--

Hansel


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python services within existing .Net infrastructure

[Jonathan Hartley]

A humerous link sent by Harry Percival, related to this discussion:

http://cube-drone.com/comics/c/encapsulation

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python services within existing .Net infrastructure

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 02/01/2017 01:05 AM, Steve - Gadget Barnes wrote:


On 01/02/2017 04:25, Jonathan Hartley wrote:

Thanks all.

Hansel - Thank you, that makes sense. I actually already do a mini
version of that at the place I'm leaving, but devs are only using
Linux/Mac host machines, and we only a Linux VM. It's reassuring to hear
that sort of setup is still feasible when extended to Windows hosts, and
Windows VMs too.

I'm tempted to reduce the number of dev configurations we need to
maintain by just holding my nose and using a Windows laptop, same as
everyone else, with a Linux VM on it. That way, I can easily replicate
my setup on any other dev's machine if they want to get involved in the
Python. Would get us up and running quicker, rather than figuring out
every combo of host and VM OS. But maybe expand into doing the full
monty you describe if there's ever more than just me who would like to
work from Linux (or if I get sick of working in a VM the whole time)

 Jonathan



Jonathan,

Have you considered that python is extremely cross platform. Provided
you are careful in the areas of:

   - Paths
   - Direct hardware interfaces
   - Shell operations
   - Maintaining your requires.txt file(s)
   - A tiny number of libraries that are not (easily) available for
Windows, (maybe it is worth having a blacklist). On that front Christoph
Gohlke has http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/ which can save
many hours of fun. Note that the introduction of the wheel library
format has made things a lot simpler.

You should be able to develop & test python code on Linux (where you are
comfortable) including writing test suites - fire up a Windows VM with
python installed, (complete with populating you library from
requires.txt) & run your test suite. Then, assuming the tests all pass,
either deploy to Windows machines with python already installed as a
prerequisite or while you are in your VM use py2exe/pyinstaller or
cxfreeze to produce a Windows deployment for machines that don't have
python installed.  If you stick to good, cross platform, programming
standards you should find it a breeze - pylint is your friend on this.

Just as an example I had been developing a suite of (wx)Python based
programs/utilities at work for quite a few years under Windows 7 and
deploying it. as executables, to machines running XP though 10. When the
whole lot was at about 80k lines I had an opportunity to try it for the
first time on a Linux box - I had to change 3 lines of code to get it
working.  Of course this was helped by the fact that I was testing both
as source and as bundled executable.

Many people swear by Anaconda for simplifying this sort of stuff you may
wish to consider going that way personally I stick with pip and
sometimes, rarely, have to re-think which library I am going to have to use.

Of course deploying a docker using vagrant does give you a lot more
control and Linux dockers with python & your libraries installed can be
quite light weight.


Hey Steve, Thanks for the detailed thoughts.

My situation is a web application deployed to AWS, so I'm able to 
control the installed Python and other dependencies on the servers, so I 
won't need py2exe et al. In that situation, I agree that pip is even 
more appropriate than Anaconda.


It's great to hear that Python running on Windows is continuing to 
flourish, and you reassure me that's a healthy option. But to be honest, 
I'm more concerned about lacking the Linux system calls, ecosystem of 
services (e.g. supervisor) and philosophy that I'm used to. Clearly 
there are Windows equivalents of the tools I like, but figuring them out 
would be an extra burden, and I'd rather min/max my future skillset 
rather than knowing a little bit about each.


I very much hope that containers will be part of our strategy, as 
outlined by Hansel earlier. I only just learned that Windows containers 
are also now a thing! I had no idea. (They only run on Windows hosts, 
which is fair.)


Many thanks for the inputs, people.

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python services within existing .Net infrastructure

[Jonathan Hartley]

Thanks all.

Hansel - Thank you, that makes sense. I actually already do a mini 
version of that at the place I'm leaving, but devs are only using 
Linux/Mac host machines, and we only a Linux VM. It's reassuring to hear 
that sort of setup is still feasible when extended to Windows hosts, and 
Windows VMs too.


I'm tempted to reduce the number of dev configurations we need to 
maintain by just holding my nose and using a Windows laptop, same as 
everyone else, with a Linux VM on it. That way, I can easily replicate 
my setup on any other dev's machine if they want to get involved in the 
Python. Would get us up and running quicker, rather than figuring out 
every combo of host and VM OS. But maybe expand into doing the full 
monty you describe if there's ever more than just me who would like to 
work from Linux (or if I get sick of working in a VM the whole time)


Jonathan



On 01/31/2017 04:49 PM, Hansel Dunlop wrote:


It should be possible to have your Python app/s in docker containers 
(which can be run anywhere via VirtualBox or natively where available) 
and also run your windows Dev VMs via VirtualBox. Then this setup can 
be replicated across Mac/Linux/Win. That's your Dev environment. Then 
in production you have servers running Windows, and servers running 
Linux with containers on top. Vagrant will make this easyish on Dev 
and Ansible for staging/production. It's not an uncommon setup. All 
Dev machines need a few gigs of RAM.


I mean you basically said this in your question. But it's really quite 
common. And would suit your Linux skills more. Scripting windows? I 
hear it's almost possible now? 😚



On Tue, 31 Jan 2017, 18:13 Jonathan Hartley, <mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:


Lots of good thoughts so far, thanks to everyone.

Anand, I deeply appreciate your contributions, but what exactly
did you
mean by: "set up Linux containers but make things available on
Windows" ?


On 01/31/2017 10:26 AM, Anand Kumria wrote:
> I'd probably start with utilising setting up Linux VMs /
containers but
> make things available on Windows.
>
> Keep in mind that .Net (and thus C#, F#) also run on Linux as
well, and
> those VMs / containers tend to be cheaper overall.
>
> A
>
>
> On 31/01/17 15:02, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I'm joining a small company with an existing service-based
>> infrastructure written in C# & F#, on Windows Server on AWS.
>>
>> They want me to write some new services in Python. I'm wondering
>> whether to host these Python services on Linux or on Windows.
>>
>>
>> In favour of Linux:
>>
>> L1. I'm by far more familiar with Linux.
>>
>> L2. Linux is Python's natural home. I expect the ecosystem to
work at
>> its best there.
>>
>>
>> In favour of Windows:
>>
>> W1. I don't want to put up a barrier to the existing C# devs from
>> working on the Python services because they don't have a Linux
>> install. (although I guess this is circumvented by them using a VM)
>>
>> W2. I don't want to cause a devops headache by introducing
>> heterogeneous OS choices.
>>
>> W3. As a specific example of W2, some places I've worked at
have had
>> local dev environments spin up all our services in VMs or
containers
>> on the local host, so we can system test across all services. I
fear
>> heterogeneous server OSes will make significantly harder to do.
They
>> also want me to lead the charge on this sort of test setup, so
this is
>> going to be my problem.
>>
>> Thoughts welcome.
>>
>>  Jonathan
>>

--
Jonathan Hartley tart...@tartley.com <mailto:tart...@tartley.com>
http://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101    twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python services within existing .Net infrastructure

[Jonathan Hartley]

Lots of good thoughts so far, thanks to everyone.

Anand, I deeply appreciate your contributions, but what exactly did you 
mean by: "set up Linux containers but make things available on Windows" ?



On 01/31/2017 10:26 AM, Anand Kumria wrote:

I'd probably start with utilising setting up Linux VMs / containers but
make things available on Windows.

Keep in mind that .Net (and thus C#, F#) also run on Linux as well, and
those VMs / containers tend to be cheaper overall.

A


On 31/01/17 15:02, Jonathan Hartley wrote:

Hey all,

I'm joining a small company with an existing service-based
infrastructure written in C# & F#, on Windows Server on AWS.

They want me to write some new services in Python. I'm wondering
whether to host these Python services on Linux or on Windows.


In favour of Linux:

L1. I'm by far more familiar with Linux.

L2. Linux is Python's natural home. I expect the ecosystem to work at
its best there.


In favour of Windows:

W1. I don't want to put up a barrier to the existing C# devs from
working on the Python services because they don't have a Linux
install. (although I guess this is circumvented by them using a VM)

W2. I don't want to cause a devops headache by introducing
heterogeneous OS choices.

W3. As a specific example of W2, some places I've worked at have had
local dev environments spin up all our services in VMs or containers
on the local host, so we can system test across all services. I fear
heterogeneous server OSes will make significantly harder to do. They
also want me to lead the charge on this sort of test setup, so this is
going to be my problem.

Thoughts welcome.

 Jonathan



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Python services within existing .Net infrastructure

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey all,

I'm joining a small company with an existing service-based 
infrastructure written in C# & F#, on Windows Server on AWS.


They want me to write some new services in Python. I'm wondering whether 
to host these Python services on Linux or on Windows.



In favour of Linux:

L1. I'm by far more familiar with Linux.

L2. Linux is Python's natural home. I expect the ecosystem to work at 
its best there.



In favour of Windows:

W1. I don't want to put up a barrier to the existing C# devs from 
working on the Python services because they don't have a Linux install. 
(although I guess this is circumvented by them using a VM)


W2. I don't want to cause a devops headache by introducing heterogeneous 
OS choices.


W3. As a specific example of W2, some places I've worked at have had 
local dev environments spin up all our services in VMs or containers on 
the local host, so we can system test across all services. I fear 
heterogeneous server OSes will make significantly harder to do. They 
also want me to lead the charge on this sort of test setup, so this is 
going to be my problem.


Thoughts welcome.

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Looking for new work buddies

[Jonathan Hartley]

Sorry to hear that Hansel! For what it's worth: My otherwise wonderful 
London employer, antidote.me, under a new CTO's vision, is cutting back 
on remote developers, namely me. So, me too!


Race you!

Jonathan


On 01/13/2017 08:37 AM, Hansel Dunlop wrote:

Hello Python friends!

The company I work for has had its most recent funding round delayed. 
So they’ve had to cut costs. The upshot of which is that there are a 
bunch of us who are looking for work. I've really enjoyed working with 
them and wouldn't mind keeping the gang together.


Anyone out there looking to hire a whole team (2x Python backend, 3x 
Web frontends)?


Or failing that just me. My resume's here 
<https://www.interpretthis.org/static/resume-responsive.html>.



--

Hansel


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made out of meat.   +1 507-513-1101twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Pyweek runs Feb-Mar: London team?

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 2016-02-04 19:07, Daniel Pope wrote:

The 21st Pyweek competition is coming up at the end of the month,
running from 00:00 UTC on 28th February to 00:00 UTC 6th March. Pyweek
is a games programming contest in which you must write a game in
Python, from scratch, in exactly one week. Games must be written
around a theme that is up for voting in the week before the contest.
The winning challenge theme is announced at the moment the contest
starts. Participants can enter as individuals or teams, and there is
one winner in each category based on votes from other entrants.

The URL: https://www.pyweek.org/ [1]

Pyweek is open to everyone: Python novices, adepts or experts. Even
people with no programming experience can contribute art, design,
sound, music or story to a team project. For some, it might be your
first complete end-to-end Python project.

You can spend a few hours or all of the week; winning games have been
written in a day. One of the most fun aspects of Pyweek is to diarise
your progress and upload screenshots. Seeing other games develop,
exchanging development war stories and celebrating successes is part
of the fun.

I would encourage you to consider taking part.

Londonites: London Python Dojo regulars have entered a team in the
competition a couple of times before, but to my knowledge the last
time was several years ago. Since then I've won the individual
competition a couple of times, but never the team competition. I think
it's time the London Python community stood up to the challenge and
took that team trophy home*! Because we're a city of talented,
creative, witty Pythonistas. Who's with me?!

* There is no trophy.


Links:
--
[1] https://www.pyweek.org/

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



Even if I don't get to contribute to an entry, I for one will be 
checking in to cheer from the sidelines!


   Jonathan
--
Jonathan Hartley
tart...@tartley.com
+1 507-513-1101

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] repurposing python-uk artwork

[Jonathan Hartley]

Is the fantastic PyCon UK artwork of recent years licensed such that I 
could re-use it for my own purposes?


I've set up a new Python meetup group in my new homeland of Rochester, 
Minnesota, USA. I'm going to distribute flyers to promote the group in 
local colleges and the like. Since the very best Python related artwork 
I've ever seen is the PyCon UK graphics of the last few years, I'd love 
to re-use that and just plaster my own text on top, along the lines of 
"come to our local Python meetup!"


If this is allowed, where could I get it?

  Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley
tart...@tartley.com
+1 507-513-1101
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Senior Python dev wanted, TrialReach, South Bank, London

[Jonathan Hartley]

TrialReach is looking for senior Python developers.

I joined the company a few months ago, and have been loving the people, 
the work, and the atmosphere. We're solving an important problem in 
recruiting suitable volunteers for medical trials, which allows trials 
to proceed more quickly, getting vital drugs and treatments to market 
faster. This saves lives, and has substantial financial benefits.


The successful applicant will join the 4 devs on the back-end team, who 
own a large "classic" vintage Django application, and a few newer 
services,  which mostly use the lightweight framework 'Falcon'.


We also have couple of experienced front-end guys, and a real user 
experience designer. He shares video highlights of real users in front 
of the software, which really brings home what works and what doesn't, 
and also how important the service we provide is to our users.


There are about 15 staff in the London office, about 30 worldwide.

The formal job ad is at:
http://trialreach.com/about/jobs/#6

Best regards,

    Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley
tart...@tartley.com
(+44|0) 7737 062 225
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Issue with unit tests in IntelliJ IDEA

[Jonathan Hartley]

I found this code, which looks relevant. Something to do with intelliJ 
(is that an IDE?) and PyCharm (which even I know is an IDE) and running 
tests, which expects a "true" parameter in the 'utrunner.py' invocation:


https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/blob/master/python/helpers/pycharm/utrunner.py#L89





On 14 July 2015 at 11:33, David Szervanszky
 wrote:


utrunner.py: error: unrecognized arguments




Links:
--
[1] https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=error%3A+unrecognized+arguments

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley
tart...@tartley.com
(+44|0) 7737 062 225
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Travelling to EuroPython 2015 by boat?

[Jonathan Hartley]

I, for one, am curious how long it takes, how much it costs, where they 
leave from. Others must also be curious. Are you motivated by cost, 
adventure, or something else?



On 2015-03-23 13:58, Harry Percival wrote:

I'm at least curious about this!  Anyone else?

On 16 March 2015 at 11:51, Daniele Procida  wrote:


Is anyone planning to go by boat to Santander or Bilbao? Let me
know!

Thanks,

Daniele

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk [1]


--

--
Harry J.W. Percival
--
Twitter: @hjwp
Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
Skype: harry.percival

Links:
--
[1] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley
tart...@tartley.com
(+44|0) 7737 062 225
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] UK Python Training Day: Tuesday 9 December, Westminster, London

[Jonathan Hartley]

Me! Ho ho ho.


On 2014-12-08 14:50, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I've signed up. Who else is going..?

Was that an offer of free food..?

:-)

N.

On 08/12/14 13:49, Steve Holden wrote:

Hi there,

Tomorrow (sorry for the short notice) I have rented a space in
Central London and will be making myself available to discuss
current UK needs for Python training. In 2015 I expect to be
spending much more time in the UK, presenting training of a regular
basis.

The day was originally to have been a class, but I didn't advertise
it well or widely enough to get any takers. I am therefore instead
using the day a) to work on some open source training materials and
b) discuss people's training needs with them.

I am also putting on a lunch, to which you are all cordially
invited. I can guarantee a fairly good meal.

The purpose of the day is discussed in a blog post at


http://holdenweb.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/uk-python-training-open-day-and-lunch.html

 and you can sign up for the lunch, or simply let me know you are
visiting, at

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/uk-python-training-day-tickets-14720737121.

 If you get chance to pass the details on to anyone with interests
in Python training I shall be grateful. Also please feel free to
encourage others to attend the lunch (which is limited to 12
places).

regards Steve -- Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com
<mailto:st...@holdenweb.com> +1 571 484 6266 @holdenweb





___ python-uk mailing
list python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUhbqbAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb69sUH/2mU//KVnR6QagdQ0JNAUFPe
JAzwaZd4pAz4bdBm59/ukGsQU+pZQWkYGVjymmuuBWi4qXgzrMk63Xgqn9gi7sEP
+5s1dgzXu7XcXsp6XrdmY826GlFHVudADFvsCpUkOghPxBP1Q26WYKIa6hT3UBN3
XKq4TNEi9/9O0aQYBlTwx9Mx7/mPEOaewAvgDT6cfpMMjOBGgw9NHU/d37t2SG7c
FQDNF1F7ipA/8zX7K1jfS3d5/NT8OEld66/QVtKy5lQL1tcE2CopEsBKEuOvytG3
Pba/PTZ2BJH5Qfd7ik9xw8F7rPePaT+5eynxBbwMXjeSKMD+8GyUztAawkRWv6k=
=cCQM
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley
tart...@tartley.com
(+44|0) 7737 062 225
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Moar jobs at Made.com, againer!

[Jonathan Hartley]

Another job listing is up from made.com 
(https://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/11103390), but truth be told it's a 
lot like the last one. Rapidly expanding startup (Now 4.5 years old and 
160 people) ongoing (but not too rapid) recruitment, no remote work, 
yadda yadda, basically the same as everywhere else.


What ISN'T the same as everywhere else is you get to work with our bevvy 
of furniture designers and the like, in the room next door to our 
furniture showroom, where you can try out all those lovely sofas and 
beds (perfect for afternoon snoozes!) before indulging your 30% employee 
discount!


"I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to pay it anymore!"
http://www.made.com/advert/

The office/showroom is in Notting Hill, but a move to Charing Cross Rd 
is planned around the New Year.


Hit me up online or at PyConUK to get all the insider gossip.

Come with us. Find out what you're Made of.

(See what I did there? That was just off the cuff. I can do lots more 
like that.)


   Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley
@tartley : tart...@tartley.com
(+44|0) 7737 062 225
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] hexagonal Django

[Jonathan Hartley]

I think what you describe is a common situation. When I reorganised that 
application in a Django project, that was one aspect that bugged some of 
my coworkers.


But I think there is potentially still some value there. The resulting 
one line business functions create a well-defined seam between your 
app's (slender) business logic and each of your interfaces to  external 
systems. That way, you make it easy for developers to avoid accidentally 
mixing 'django' code into the same module as code which talks to 
ElasticSearch.


If you already have the discipline to maintain great separation of 
concerns (along these or other lines), which I'm guessing PythonAnywhere 
still does, then perhaps you don't need this particular constraint to 
help you maintain it.


Is there also value in helping you plug in fake external services for 
testing purposes? I believe there is, but again, I'm not sure this value 
is greater than zero if you *already* have well thought-out mechanisms 
for plugging in fake external systems.


Jonathan




On 15/08/14 11:22, Harry Percival wrote:

Thanks Peter!  I was speaking to Brandon at Pycon this year and he was
telling me this was going to be his next talk to take on the road, and I
was definitely looking forward to seeing it.  Matt O'Donnell was also
there, and he's done a talk on this sort of thing recently too (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGhL7IA6Dik). It's definitely in the air.

My own modest attempts to approach the subject are in my book -- in chapter
19, where I show how striving for test isolation can (theoretically) push
you towards something like a lean architecture (
http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/123400754/ch19.html) and in
chapter 21, the wrap-up, where I waffle on about all these things (
http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/123400754/ch22.html)

I don't think I managed to broach the subject nearly as cleanly as Brandon
did.  I really admire his talks.  His data structures talk was one of the
top 3 I saw at Pycon this year (
http://pyvideo.org/video/2571/all-your-ducks-in-a-row-data-structures-in-the-s).
Perfect pace, slides that complement rather than repeat the talk,
fascinating and useful content...

Anyways, back to our onions - I guess the thing that's always bothered me a
bit about the "clean architecture" is that my main project (pythonanywhere)
is "all boundaries", to use Gary Bernhardt's terminology.  Or, to put it
differently, I don't think we really have much in the way of "business
logic".  We just turn Http requests into commands that go to processes.
There's really not much in the way of "logic" in the way.  No calculations
or business rules to speak of.  So it's never seemed worth it, to us.

And sometimes I think -- aren't many web projects just thin CRUD wrappers
around a database?  Is going to all the trouble of isolating your business
logic from, eg, django, really worth it in most cases?




On 13 August 2014 13:09, Daniel Pope  wrote:


Coincidentally, I blogged on the topic of Django project organisation at
the weekend.

http://mauveweb.co.uk/posts/2014/08/organising-django-projects.html

May be of interest?

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk






_______
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] hexagonal Django

[Jonathan Hartley]

Thanks for the Brandon talk link: I hadn't seen it yet and I'm eager to 
see anything new from him.


> Oates

I did embark on the Django refactor, and in my mind it was a success of 
sorts. Obviously we didn't derive any immediate business value from that 
refactor, but it did demonstrate that the approach was viable, and I 
liked the way that the code turned out. I would seriously consider it on 
future projects (I'm not doing Django at the moment, and my current 
project has a large codebase that I'm not going to try to re-architect.)


There were some sticking points that with hindsight seemed predictable. 
I don't know that I can remember them specifically now, but the pattern 
seemed to be that it would have been much easier if our code had kept 
Django at a bit more of arms-length, rather than wholeheartedly relying 
on it for *everything*.


For example, we had used things like Django's magic 'settings' module to 
store all sorts of project-wide constants. This caused problems for the 
'clean architecture' approach, because it meant that any code which 
wanted to access any settings needed to import the Django settings 
mechanism. Better, instead, to use Django's settings module to just 
store Django configuration options, and store project-wide constants in 
more generic place of your own devising.


So, as advertised, it seemed that the 'clean' approach really did make 
it more visible when we weren't being very smart about managing our 
dependencies, and force us to limit them more than we previously had.


Jonathan


On 13/08/14 11:32, James Broadhead wrote:

On 13 August 2014 08:17, Peter Inglesby  wrote:


I'm starting my week-long exercise on trying it out on a slice of our

existing Django monster. I'll report back.

Echoes of Captain Oates here?

Anyway, reviving an old thread: Brandon Rhodes talks provides a
straightforward and accessible summary of "The Clean Architecture" in a
recent talk[0] and it's the least wanky discussion of this kind that I've
come across.  His main point is that things with side effects (particularly
calling external services) should be isolated in "procedural glue" code,
while the processing of data -- the business logic -- should happen in pure
functional code.  This leads to a better focus on the structure of the data
you're dealing with, which in turn leads to more comprehensible and
maintainable code.

Thoughts?

[0] http://www.pyvideo.org/video/2840/the-clean-architecture-in-python


I'm always reminded of that Rimmer quote about Oates...

I've been doing this recently with Twisted -- separating out async code
that deals with deferred chains from synchronous logic handling the results
of the deferreds.
I'm finding that it's leading to clear, easily tested code -- simple
synchronous tests on real data for the business logic, and stubbed
success/failures to test the various code-paths in the deferred logic.
I came to this variously by tangling too much with mixes of deferred-flows
and business logic while trying to write simple tests and seeing this DAS
talk on Boundaries [1]

d = defer.succeed(foo)
d.addCallback(handle_foo)
d.addCallback(make_request)
d.addErrback(retry, make_request, foo)
d.addCallback(parse_body)
return d
^ code like this is easily tested by stubbing all the callbacks, with the
stubs either succeeding or raising synchronous exceptions.

def parse_body(body):
   content = json.parse(body.read())
   if not 'username' in content:
 raise HttpError(401)
   return Response(content)
^ again, really easy to test. No deep nested logic, no need to mock or
stub.

[1] https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/boundaries



_______
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Fwd: PyconUK 2014: IBIS hotel rooms now available

[Jonathan Hartley]

Forwarding as requested.

 Original Message 
Subject:[PyConUK-adm] Pycon UK 2014: Rooms at the IBIS Hotel
Date:   Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:49:59 +0100
From:   Mary Mooney 
To: pyconuk-...@python.org 
CC: h2793...@accor.com



The IBIS hotel now has 35 rooms available for booking - by email only. 
Delegates will need to email Iwona Penkala at h2793...@accor.com 
 with their details. Iwona will confirm the 
booking by return. Accounts will have to be settled at the hotel upon 
departure.


Wiki has been updated.
http://pyconuk.net/Accommodation

Would someone please forward this message to the Greater Python Community.

Thanks.

/Mary/
*Mobile* - +44 (0) 7857 373727
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] OpenERP users (in London?)

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey,

I'm curious about whether there are any users of OpenERP (a Python 
logistics framework) here in London?


We're using it here at Made (furniture 
design/manufacture/import/retail.) and I'd be curious:

a) to meet up over a coffee/pint to swap notes
b) to judge if there would be any interest in an OpenERP talk at 
skillsmatter or similar.


Cheers,

    Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] TDD stuff in London, next two weeks (and list comprehension scoping)

[Jonathan Hartley]

That's what I thought too, but:

$ python3
Python 3.4.0 (default, Apr 19 2014, 12:20:10)
[GCC 4.8.1] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class Some(object):
...   tokens = ['a', 'b', 'c']
...   untokenized = [Some.tokens.index(a) for a in ['b']]
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 3, in Some
  File "", line 3, in 
NameError: name 'Some' is not defined


On 30/05/14 16:07, Sven Marnach wrote:
On 30 May 2014 15:49, Harry Percival <mailto:harry.perci...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I had the problem outside of a class body, in a normal function...

The particular problem mentioned in the StackOverflow quesiton you 
linked only ever occurs inside class bodies.  They are the only 
enclosing scopes that are skipped in name lookups.  You can still 
access class attributes of the class by using ClassName.attribute 
inside the list comprehension, like you would have to do to access 
class attributes from inside methods.


Cheers,
Sven



_______
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Python devs wanted at "Made", Notting Hill

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey all,

We're recruiting! Permanent, office in Notting Hill, on site only, small 
flexibility in hours in times of need, but mostly sorta 8 till 5 or 
9:30-6:30 ish.


My employer is "Made" (http://made.com), a 4 year old, 100 person 
company, which commissions, imports, and retails swanky furniture for 
decent prices. The business model eliminates middlemen and aims to sell 
most items while they are on a ship which is just about to reach 
England, thus reducing lead times, transportation and warehousing costs.


My team is the 5-person Python "ERP" team. ERP stands for "Enterprise 
Resource Planning", and means the logistics of slogging parcels around 
between factories, warehouses, containers and customers. To do this, we 
use a popular framework called "Odoo" (was "OpenERP"), that feels a 
little like using Django in some ways.


You won't be working on our website, which is handled by a separate 10 
person PHP team who sits adjacently. They have impressed me with their 
professionalism and competence, but nevertheless we exchange 
good-natured broadsides from time to time to keep them in check.


There are some fun technical challenges that we're just beginning to get 
stuck into, a smashingly sane CTO and senior management, and the 
environment benefits (IMHO) from a Nathan-Barley-like army of youthful 
"creatives", downstairs, who do various product design and photo shoot 
kinds of work. It's all leggy folks draped over sofas (showroom is 
onsite) and "flowers for the model" on expenses, which brightens up both 
office life and company pub trips.


Hit me up if you're interested. Best regards,

Jonathan Hartley

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] PyCon UK 2014

[Jonathan Hartley]

The Spire view B&B (between the conference and the train station) says:

Our prices start from £38 per night.
This includes breakfast and wifi.
regards Spire View

I shall be booking there.

If someone else wants to put that on the wiki page, please do:
http://pyconuk.net/Accommodation

I tried to do it myself, but have lost my password somehow, and the 
'reset your password' form is giving me an error. Ah, and now I can't 
get the error message due to surge protection... Let me know if you're 
interested in it.


Jonathan


On 14/04/14 22:46, Jonathan Hartley wrote:

Thanks for the breakfast reminder Nicolas.

The rate I quoted is the average per night with the 3 for 2 deal.

I think I might research the B&B's a few hundred yards away. I'll let 
the list and the wiki know what I find out.


Jonathan


On 14/04/14 22:41, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 14/04/14 21:42, Jonathan Hartley wrote:

What's the advice for accommodation?

The Ibis currently has rooms for £47.78/night, without breakfast.

Are there plans for a conference rate in the works? Or ought we
jump on this now?

Thanks for any info,

Jonathan



Hey Jonathan,

If you look on the Ibis site they *did* have a 3 nights for 2 a week
or so ago. Might still be running, although you need to poke around
their site for a quote.

Also, if it's like last year, breakfast will be served at the
conference so you won't need to book any at the hotel.

HTH,

N.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTFYYAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6eh4H/RHJhN7TYfp0WLn6nmLAMwN3
+3Cx3dXE5RLTcR+nuN7O7zYPHIRa4pBiuamCSaAx4T3ayTlndaOY3c46ExakxHcQ
h4Sno3DN0JfwTTb39U4pUvfz5m9slQJezxQZk7WtR6+YsMIgakJ67Ey1jsYms3lU
3ACyx83q4+YhKgoQNMpzw1rA2u5c60b5TwyPFLt5JPxSKYK96cBjVMCefQBaMHOz
ZmznUjg3pAz/4N2XRtK5HzRtrHWuPOAfH6jX4S6tagvbgcILNb9Ugz4R8f697X2d
msPgW7Mvg/QPUigxbSXTkwZAJeQoV3LWNLx1/x7SR58wcvSLNIKW0cfdsMuwo0c=
=G7yl
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] PyCon UK 2014

[Jonathan Hartley]

Thanks for the breakfast reminder Nicolas.

The rate I quoted is the average per night with the 3 for 2 deal.

I think I might research the B&B's a few hundred yards away. I'll let 
the list and the wiki know what I find out.


Jonathan


On 14/04/14 22:41, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 14/04/14 21:42, Jonathan Hartley wrote:

What's the advice for accommodation?

The Ibis currently has rooms for £47.78/night, without breakfast.

Are there plans for a conference rate in the works? Or ought we
jump on this now?

Thanks for any info,

Jonathan



Hey Jonathan,

If you look on the Ibis site they *did* have a 3 nights for 2 a week
or so ago. Might still be running, although you need to poke around
their site for a quote.

Also, if it's like last year, breakfast will be served at the
conference so you won't need to book any at the hotel.

HTH,

N.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTFYYAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6eh4H/RHJhN7TYfp0WLn6nmLAMwN3
+3Cx3dXE5RLTcR+nuN7O7zYPHIRa4pBiuamCSaAx4T3ayTlndaOY3c46ExakxHcQ
h4Sno3DN0JfwTTb39U4pUvfz5m9slQJezxQZk7WtR6+YsMIgakJ67Ey1jsYms3lU
3ACyx83q4+YhKgoQNMpzw1rA2u5c60b5TwyPFLt5JPxSKYK96cBjVMCefQBaMHOz
ZmznUjg3pAz/4N2XRtK5HzRtrHWuPOAfH6jX4S6tagvbgcILNb9Ugz4R8f697X2d
msPgW7Mvg/QPUigxbSXTkwZAJeQoV3LWNLx1/x7SR58wcvSLNIKW0cfdsMuwo0c=
=G7yl
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] PyCon UK 2014

[Jonathan Hartley]

What's the advice for accommodation?

The Ibis currently has rooms for £47.78/night, without breakfast.

Are there plans for a conference rate in the works? Or ought we jump on 
this now?


Thanks for any info,

Jonathan



On 14/04/14 19:08, John Pinner wrote:

Hello All,

Hoping that not too many of you get multiple copies...

This is a reminder that PyCon UK takes place in Coventry from
19th-22nd September.

Early Bird registration is open, but finishes on 1st May.

There is a cap on the number of Early Bird tickets, and they are half
sold at the moment, so don't make it too late !

Best wishes,

John
--
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Potato is hiring

[Jonathan Hartley]

Potato's jobs web page says " Please let us know whether a freelance or 
fulltime position is preferable, too."

https://p.ota.to/jobs/senior-django-developer-london/

Cheers,

Jonathan


On 28/02/14 12:51, lsmit...@hare.demon.co.uk wrote:

Hi:

My cv is at http://www.hare.demon.co.uk/cv.html.

Would you consider contractors, and would you consider remote
work?





Jason Cartwright writes:
  > https://p.ota.to/jobs/
  >
  > Potato has an ongoing need for Python developers to join our team working
  > on massive scale webapps for clients such as Google, YouTube, Skype, PayPal
  > and other agencies such as BBH and Mother.
  >
  > Drop us a line for a cup of tea and a chat.
  >
  > Cheers,
  > Jason
  >
  > --
  > Jason Cartwright
  >
  > p.ota.to
  > ___
  > python-uk mailing list
  > python-uk@python.org
  > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] copyright info in source

[Jonathan Hartley]

I approve of the sentiment, but it seems to me that the unlicense is 
most definitely a LICENSE. Putting legal terms and conditions, or waiver 
of same, into a differently named file, seems a step too far.


Nevertheless, sounds cool to me, I'll read up and consider using it. Thanks!



On 06/10/13 22:45, Harry Percival wrote:
apologies for resurrecting a dead thread, but i came across this 
license and was impressed:


http://unlicense.org/


On 12 September 2013 20:08, John Lee <mailto:j...@pobox.com>> wrote:


On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
[...]

I've seen it done in a special "coding style test suite"
(that gets run along with all the other tests).  Slightly
nicer than a push hook IMO because you see it earlier and
because it works the same way as all your other automated
tests of your code.  There was a bit of special code so
that you got one failure per coding style violation I
think (including one per missing copyright statement), but
those are bonus points.

Maybe somebody has written a test runner plugin that does
that? My quick searches didn't turn one up, though there
is this, which could easily be adapted (not a plugin, and
looks like it wants to be)


http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12227443/is-there-a-plugin-for-pylint-and-pyflakes-for-nose-tests


John
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



I don't think it should be a test runner plugin, so much as
just a test. Maybe a big common utility function (in a pypi
package) which a tiny custom test function can then call to
parametrize it for your project.


That works.  The reason I suggested a plugin was so that plugin
hooks can give the coding style check function the modules (and
scripts) on which to operate.



John
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
--
Harry J.W. Percival
--
Twitter: @hjwp
Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
Skype: harry.percival


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] copyright info in source

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 10/09/13 20:07, John Lee wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013, Andy Robinson wrote:


On 9 September 2013 19:53, Russel Winder  wrote:

The licence statement has to be in each and every individual file since
in UK and USA law each file is deemed a separate work.



Russel, thanks.  That's interesting.

The practical issue is "how not to forget over time".  A test in a
test suite, or a hook in a setup /release script which walks the files
and warns you would be very useful for anyone who has to do this.   We
used to have a subversion commit hook once upon a time, but DVCS made
it trickier.


I've seen it done in a special "coding style test suite" (that gets 
run along with all the other tests).  Slightly nicer than a push hook 
IMO because you see it earlier and because it works the same way as 
all your other automated tests of your code.  There was a bit of 
special code so that you got one failure per coding style violation I 
think (including one per missing copyright statement), but those are 
bonus points.


Maybe somebody has written a test runner plugin that does that? My 
quick searches didn't turn one up, though there is this, which could 
easily be adapted (not a plugin, and looks like it wants to be)


http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12227443/is-there-a-plugin-for-pylint-and-pyflakes-for-nose-tests 




John
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



I don't think it should be a test runner plugin, so much as just a test. 
Maybe a big common utility function (in a pypi package) which a tiny 
custom test function can then call to parametrize it for your project.


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] copyright info in source

[Jonathan Hartley]

Thanks Doug.

I'd be interested if you wanted to expand on why you like that license. 
Is it anything other than what I could glean from a layman's reading of 
the text?


That Apache license page is puzzling to me, no doubt due to my 
inexperience in such matters.


Why does the boilerplate attached to every file contain a partial, 
reworded version of clause 7 of the license, but not of any other 
clauses? Why is this copy reworded? Are the rewordings legally 
significant? If so, what do the differences mean, if not, why are they 
there? Presumably only a lawyer is qualified to answer.


Presumably the  ':::text' boilerplate prefix just an erroneous markup snafu?

Jonathan


On 10/09/13 10:02, Doug Winter wrote:

On 09/09/13 19:53, Russel Winder wrote:
Sadly, although it would be nice to have a file that says it applies 
to all files and so be very DRY, this will not work in UK and USA 
law, possibly also other jurisdictions. The licence statement has to 
be in each and every individual file since in UK and USA law each 
file is deemed a separate work. If you check FSF and other FOSS 
licence places they will set this out as the process because of this 
problem. Some IDEs even have plugins to sort this out for you!


This.

There have been many, many cases of open source projects with valid 
LICENSE files that turn out to have a couple of files from somewhere 
else that are not appropriately licensed.  I don't know if anyone 
remembers the mplayer saga on debian-legal, for example.


By putting a (c) statement and license summary in every file you are 
removing the risk from someone who uses your code that they are going 
to end up in a difficult position later.  Google are being reasonable 
in protecting themselves here.


Although getting licensing right is amazingly dull, it is relatively 
easy if you use a good license just follow the instructions provided 
with it.


FWIW, personally I recommend the Apache License 2.0 as the best 
license available right now (if you don't care about copylefting), and 
it has very clear instructions in the appendix:


http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

That notice should be included in every file, because each is a 
potentially independent work.


Cheers,

Doug.



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] copyright info in source

[Jonathan Hartley]

You are cunning. Or maybe configure my editor to auto hide (fold?) such gubbins?

But sadly I don't think I can justify the time to ingulge in such appealing 
trickery. A ten second Awk invocation it will be, followed by 'make release'.

Jonathan Hartley
http://tartley.com

Daniel Pope  wrote:

>Maybe you could omit license headers in your repo, but add them when
>building the sdist?
>
>
>On 9 September 2013 20:57, Jonathan Hartley  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the input, people.
>>
>> FWIW, The folks downstream said their motivation was the continual
>> difficulty of automatically checking for acceptable licenses on the many
>> bits of (allegedly) FOSS they use. They have 4k of filenames that the
>> license checker can't currently account for, and re-checking them all
>> manually every few months is a continual drain.
>>
>> I'll roll over on this one. That the world is the way it is raises my
>> hackles, but no point me making life harder for some other blameless devs.
>> I'll squeeze it into 80 chars per file somehow. Thanks for the pointers on
>> that.
>>
>> Jonathan Hartley
>> http://tartley.com
>>
>> Russel Winder  wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 16:13 +0100, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
>> >> Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source
>> >> available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license,
>> >> so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such
>> >> people. Am I wrong?
>> >
>> >You are both right and wrong. You are right that this should be the case
>> >in (programmer) logic. However the issue is what does the amalgam of
>> >statute, case law, barristers and judges make of the situation.
>> >
>> >I would suggest either complying with the request, or withdraw the
>> >material from licenced use.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Russel.
>>
>> >=
>> >Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip:
>> sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
>> >41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
>> >London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
>> >
>> >___
>> >python-uk mailing list
>> >python-uk@python.org
>> >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> ___
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>
>
>___
>python-uk mailing list
>python-uk@python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] copyright info in source

[Jonathan Hartley]

Thanks for all the input, people.

FWIW, The folks downstream said their motivation was the continual difficulty 
of automatically checking for acceptable licenses on the many bits of 
(allegedly) FOSS they use. They have 4k of filenames that the license checker 
can't currently account for, and re-checking them all manually every few months 
is a continual drain.

I'll roll over on this one. That the world is the way it is raises my hackles, 
but no point me making life harder for some other blameless devs. I'll squeeze 
it into 80 chars per file somehow. Thanks for the pointers on that.

Jonathan Hartley
http://tartley.com

Russel Winder  wrote:

>On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 16:13 +0100, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
>> Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source 
>> available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license, 
>> so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such 
>> people. Am I wrong?
>
>You are both right and wrong. You are right that this should be the case
>in (programmer) logic. However the issue is what does the amalgam of
>statute, case law, barristers and judges make of the situation.
>
>I would suggest either complying with the request, or withdraw the
>material from licenced use.
>
>-- 
>Russel.
>=
>Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
>41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
>London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
>
>___
>python-uk mailing list
>python-uk@python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] copyright info in source

[Jonathan Hartley]

Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source 
available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license, 
so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such 
people. Am I wrong?


Jonathan



On 09/09/13 14:30, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
I concur, you do not have to put the full license text in it, a 
reference to it is fine.
The logic behind that request is that some files may be seen out of 
context of the project (as there is no reference), without having a 
license attached the file can be legally misrepresented as being 
public domain.



So yes a one liner as Andy has given is all you need, by having your 
name and year, any reference can be then looked up by anybody who is 
interested.



On 9 September 2013 14:24, Andy Robinson <mailto:a...@reportlab.com>> wrote:


On 9 September 2013 14:18, Jonathan Hartley mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:
> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every
source file
> (including empty __init__.py files).

I have had this with big companies before, long ago.  It may actually
be sufficient to have one line saying something like...

"Copyright Jonathan Hartley 2013.  MIT-style license; see
mypackage/LICENSE.TXT for details"

- Andy
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] copyright info in source

[Jonathan Hartley]

A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium, 
because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) 
fail their build-time license checker.


They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source 
file (including empty __init__.py files).


I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in 
putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. 
To my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project 
LICENSE file.


Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?

    Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Share a hotel room for PyCon UK?

[Jonathan Hartley]

Incidentally, the airbnb idea I tweeted about didnt pan out. They lied about 
location, it was way acros town. I wnded up in the Ramada, I think. On "The 
Butts" street. Sorry for typing, sleeping baby on lap and backspace is just out 
of reach.

Jonathan Hartley
http://tartley.com

Sarah Mount  wrote:

>Hi Daniel, this is great! Can you also put something on the accommodation
>page on the wiki where we are trying to keep track of offers? There have
>already been some announcements on Twitter  ... Good luck with your search!
>
>Sarah
>On 31 Aug 2013 01:24, "Daniele Procida"  wrote:
>
>> Since a hotel room for two people seems to priced the same as a oom for
>> one, I'd like to try to reduce the cost of accommodation by finding someone
>> to share with, so if you already have a room with twin beds and would like
>> to find a roommate, please let me know.
>>
>> Me: <http://medicine.cf.ac.uk/person/mr-daniele-marco-procida/>. I'm
>> doing a tutorial at the conference, and will be staying Thursday, Friday,
>> Saturday and Sunday nights.
>>
>> I am a non-smoker and try not to make too much of a nuisance of myself.
>>
>> Daniele
>>
>> ___
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk@python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>
>
>___
>python-uk mailing list
>python-uk@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Tangent Labs is hiring too

[Jonathan Hartley]

FWIW, I went to interview at Tangent Labs a few months ago and they 
seemed to me to be the most technically astute and engaging team out of 
all the places I looked at. Highly recommended.


Jonathan


On 07/08/13 14:32, David Winterbottom wrote:

Another recruitment email sorry.

Tangent Labs is looking for python/django hackers to work in its 
London office (on Great Portland Street).  We are probably the largest 
django development team in London (~18) and looking to expand.


We run the open-source e-commerce framework django-oscar 
<https://github.com/tangentlabs/django-oscar> and open-source lots of 
our stuff. <https://github.com/tangentlabs/django-oscar>


More detailed ad here:
http://hackerjobs.co.uk/jobs/2013/8/5/tangent-labs-passionate-python-hacker

Quite a few of us will be at PyConUK with year if you want to talk more.

Send a CV to recruitm...@tangentlabs.co.uk 
<mailto:recruitm...@tangentlabs.co.uk> if you're interested.


--
*David Winterbottom*
Head of Programming

Tangent Labs
84-86 Great Portland Street
London W1W 7NR
England, UK


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python/Django opportunities - all levels - @ Hogarth Worldwide

[Jonathan Hartley]

Kudos. Hat doffed. Good luck, Ben.

On 16/07/13 13:58, Ben Curwood wrote:

Dear All,

We have read the below with great amusement and concede that the usage 
of /exponential /in this context may not have been entirely palatable 
to all.


While we endeavour to uphold the accuracy of our vocabulary, some of 
you will align yourselves with the more traditional (and arguably, 
accurate) usage of /exponential/ around mathematical academia and 
proscribe the extended usage as simply 'rapid growth'.


In the spirit of compensation, we would like to invite you to take 
part in our technical test. Should you be successful, you will be 
offered a free interview and a chance to join our /rapidly 
growing/ technology department!


Should you wish to accept this quest, please drop me a line for 
details of the test.


Best,
Ben

PS - with any luck one day Hogarth may indeed employee everyone on earth!





From: Harry Percival <mailto:harry.perci...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "hj...@cantab.net <mailto:hj...@cantab.net>" 
mailto:hj...@cantab.net>>

Date: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 13:21
To: UK Python Users mailto:python-uk@python.org>>
Cc: Ben Curwood <mailto:ben.curw...@hogarthww.com>>
Subject: Re: [python-uk] Python/Django opportunities - all levels - @ 
Hogarth Worldwide


Excellent nitpick Jonathan!  Shame you accidentally a word, which 
weakened your monocle-adjusting second sentence somewhat.

..

I wonder if we can estimate how soon Hogarth Worldwide will be 
employing everyone on earth? We have some data points:

- growing exponentially
- 2008: 14 people
- 2013: 700 people

We probably need a third data point to fit a curve though... Hey, Ben, 
do you know how many employees they had in 2010?





On 16 July 2013 13:00, Jonathan Hartley <mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:


> exponentially

Really? With respect to time? So they only want a small number of
new people to begin with, but will want a rapidly number towards
the end of the project? How curious.

Jonathan
Pedant / Smartarse



On 16/07/13 11:03, Ben Curwood wrote:

Morning All,

Hogarth Worldwide is growing its already-sizeable development
department exponentially. Our London office is currently based
near Farringdon, but soon to be moving to a brand-new facility in
Soho.

If you are looking to work in an environment that uses the very
best agile practices, the very best technologies and in the very
best way possible, then please get in touch. Hogarth's Tech
department has a fantastic working environment with a large team
of similar individuals who are passionate about what we create.

If you would like to hear more, please refer to the open
positions below:

*Lead Developers/Application Architects*
*Senior Python/Django Developers*
*Python/Django Developers*
*QA Engineers (Manual/Automation, with Python)*
*(Freelance) Python/Django Developers*

We offer competitive salaries and rates, great company benefits
and excellent career progression.

Hogarth is a global advertising implementation agency that has
developed enterprise-scale, class-leading applications for the
advertising industry and beyond. Since we opened our doors in
2008 with 14 founders, we have grown to over 700 employees and
continue to grow at the same rate.

Please drop me a line with your details for more information.

Thanks,
Ben




*--*

*Ben Curwood*

*ben.curw...@hogarthww.com <mailto:ben.curw...@hogarthww.com>*

*
*

Mobile: +44 7768 557 654

Linkedin: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/bencurwood

Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ben_curwood


Are you a freelancer? Join our Linkedin group:Hogarth London
Freelance Group

<http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=4915493&goback=%2Enpv_20215018_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1&trk=NUS_UNIU-ngroup>

www.hogarthww.com <http://www.hogarthww.com>


This email contains information from Hogarth Worldwide Limited
which may be privileged or confidential. The information is
intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named
above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any
disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
information is prohibited. If you have received this email in
error, please contact the sender.

Headquarters/registered office: 164 Shaftesbury Avenue, London
WC2H 8HL United Kingdom T: +44 20 7240 6400 W: www.hogarthww.com
<http://www.hogarthww.com>

Registered in England and Wales. Company No. 06872427. VAT No.
973 7879 46



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org  
<mailto:python-uk@python.org>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/py

Re: [python-uk] Python/Django opportunities - all levels - @ Hogarth Worldwide

[Jonathan Hartley]

> exponentially

Really? With respect to time? So they only want a small number of new 
people to begin with, but will want a rapidly number towards the end of 
the project? How curious.


Jonathan
Pedant / Smartarse


On 16/07/13 11:03, Ben Curwood wrote:

Morning All,

Hogarth Worldwide is growing its already-sizeable development 
department exponentially. Our London office is currently based near 
Farringdon, but soon to be moving to a brand-new facility in Soho.


If you are looking to work in an environment that uses the very best 
agile practices, the very best technologies and in the very best way 
possible, then please get in touch. Hogarth's Tech department has a 
fantastic working environment with a large team of similar individuals 
who are passionate about what we create.


If you would like to hear more, please refer to the open positions below:

*Lead Developers/Application Architects*
*Senior Python/Django Developers*
*Python/Django Developers*
*QA Engineers (Manual/Automation, with Python)*
*(Freelance) Python/Django Developers*

We offer competitive salaries and rates, great company benefits and 
excellent career progression.


Hogarth is a global advertising implementation agency that has 
developed enterprise-scale, class-leading applications for the 
advertising industry and beyond. Since we opened our doors in 2008 
with 14 founders, we have grown to over 700 employees and continue to 
grow at the same rate.


Please drop me a line with your details for more information.

Thanks,
Ben




*--*

*Ben Curwood*

*ben.curw...@hogarthww.com*

*
*

Mobile: +44 7768 557 654

Linkedin: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/bencurwood

Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ben_curwood


Are you a freelancer? Join our Linkedin group:Hogarth London Freelance 
Group 
<http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=4915493&goback=%2Enpv_20215018_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1&trk=NUS_UNIU-ngroup>


www.hogarthww.com


This email contains information from Hogarth Worldwide Limited which 
may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be 
for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not 
the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, 
distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. 
If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender.


Headquarters/registered office: 164 Shaftesbury Avenue, London WC2H 
8HL United Kingdom T: +44 20 7240 6400 W: www.hogarthww.com 
<http://www.hogarthww.com>


Registered in England and Wales. Company No. 06872427. VAT No. 973 7879 46



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday

[Jonathan Hartley]

Whereas my buffoon status is very much still active.


On 15/07/13 14:41, E Hartley wrote:
Speaking as a recovering PM excluding blustering buffoons as team 
leaders takes it so far out of the realm of real life as to be almost 
like coding Nirvana.

E

On 15 Jul 2013, at 12:59, Jonathan Hartley <mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:



blustering buffoons




___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday

[Jonathan Hartley]

I guess that makes sense: With the dojo we want to encourage 
participation, whereas with the game challenges I was thinking of, they 
are optimised to producing finished, working projects (where a proven 
track record is a good positive indicator.)


Jonathan


On 15/07/13 13:33, Stestagg wrote:
I wonder, with the dojo happening every month, and most people turning 
up most times, if this might turn into a bit of a popularity contest.


If a leader won last time, then people will be more likely to go for 
the 'safe option' and join that person next time.


I do like the current method of having random team choices

Steve


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:14 PM, René Dudfield <mailto:ren...@gmail.com>> wrote:


That could work with a theme... the goal doesn't have to be a
game?   It's more inventing the problem as you go?

Unrelated thought for a good exercise... new requirements are
introduced at half time... and then 5 minutes before the end...
like real life.

    On Jul 15, 2013 2:05 PM, "Jonathan Hartley" mailto:tart...@tartley.com>> wrote:

I don't think this helps, but it's a model I think is
otherwise widely applicable, so I'll spread the seed:

One model I've seen work well on game programming challenges
is that self-selected leaders will each pitch their project
vision, and then participants will decide which leader's team
they would like to join. Leaders may also prefer other pitches
to their own, and decide to revoke or merge pitches
(generally, only one leader in a merged pitch will retain the
'leader' tag)

This has advantages that:

* self-selected leaders are vetted by the crowd. If they are
revealed, during their pitch, to be blustering buffoons, then
people can vote with their feet.

* everyone gets to work with the project/leadership that they
choose, so in theory happiness is maximised (for everyone
apart from the 'failed' project leaders.)

* projects which are popular are allocated correspondingly
generous personpower.

The disadvantages are:

* It isn't remotely relevant to our current dojo format

* It doesn't give even distribution of team sizes

Jonathan



On 12/07/13 20:53, xtian wrote:

I like the sound of this - Scrapheap Challenge style. You're
right, it would take a bit more organisation though.

On 12 Jul 2013, at 14:31, Alistair Broomhead
mailto:alistair.broomh...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Something that may may not work (I guess it would take a
fair amount of organisation) once a challenge has been
picked, we ask people to volunteer as team leaders, they get
a git repo set up and write tests, but their main role is to
advise their team and give them a nudge on things which are
stopping them from progressing. This would mean that each
team has an 'expert', but I guess it would also mean people
who were willing to take this role would have to bring a
laptop off their own -an issue for me as I don't own one...

On 12 Jul 2013 14:19, "Javier Llopis" mailto:jav...@correo.com>> wrote:


>> Another person could simply say: mmm... interesting
but... not for my
>> level. And stop coming. Do you really want this?
>
> When all's said and done, if someone doesn't think
it's for them, then
> it's not for them. We can try to be as accommodating
as possible, but
> you can't please all the people all the time.
>

...And in this case, I would rather try to keep the
expert coders in
instead of the newbies. Better be challenged than bored.

Just my 2p

J


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org  <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



-- 
Jonathan hartleytart...@tartley.com  <mailto:tart...@tartley.com> http://tartley.com

Made of meat.+44 7737 062 225  
twitter/sk

Re: [python-uk] Pycon schedule question

[Jonathan Hartley]

I don't know anything about this years PyCon, but if you look at the 
schedule for last year:


https://us.pycon.org/2012/schedule/

there was training Wed, Thu
talks Fri, Sat, Sun-morning
sprints after that.


On 13/07/13 13:58, Luis Visintini wrote:

Hi everyone,

Perhaps it's too early for this, but I could not find a schedule this 
year's Pycon.


I would like to go, but I may want go only for saturday and sunday, so 
I would like to know what would I be missing.


I heard that on Monday there will be sprints.
I presume that the main events will take place in Saturday and Sunday. 
Is this correct?

What about Friday?

regards,

Luis



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday

[Jonathan Hartley]

I don't think this helps, but it's a model I think is otherwise widely 
applicable, so I'll spread the seed:


One model I've seen work well on game programming challenges is that 
self-selected leaders will each pitch their project vision, and then 
participants will decide which leader's team they would like to join. 
Leaders may also prefer other pitches to their own, and decide to revoke 
or merge pitches (generally, only one leader in a merged pitch will 
retain the 'leader' tag)


This has advantages that:

* self-selected leaders are vetted by the crowd. If they are revealed, 
during their pitch, to be blustering buffoons, then people can vote with 
their feet.


* everyone gets to work with the project/leadership that they choose, so 
in theory happiness is maximised (for everyone apart from the 'failed' 
project leaders.)


* projects which are popular are allocated correspondingly generous 
personpower.


The disadvantages are:

* It isn't remotely relevant to our current dojo format

* It doesn't give even distribution of team sizes

Jonathan



On 12/07/13 20:53, xtian wrote:
I like the sound of this - Scrapheap Challenge style. You're right, it 
would take a bit more organisation though.


On 12 Jul 2013, at 14:31, Alistair Broomhead 
mailto:alistair.broomh...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


Something that may may not work (I guess it would take a fair amount 
of organisation) once a challenge has been picked, we ask people to 
volunteer as team leaders, they get a git repo set up and write 
tests, but their main role is to advise their team and give them a 
nudge on things which are stopping them from progressing. This would 
mean that each team has an 'expert', but I guess it would also mean 
people who were willing to take this role would have to bring a 
laptop off their own -an issue for me as I don't own one...


On 12 Jul 2013 14:19, "Javier Llopis" <mailto:jav...@correo.com>> wrote:



>> Another person could simply say: mmm... interesting but... not
for my
>> level. And stop coming. Do you really want this?
>
> When all's said and done, if someone doesn't think it's for
them, then
> it's not for them. We can try to be as accommodating as
possible, but
> you can't please all the people all the time.
>

...And in this case, I would rather try to keep the expert coders in
instead of the newbies. Better be challenged than bored.

Just my 2p

J


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Reading list

[Jonathan Hartley]

Dive into Python:
http://www.diveintopython.net/

Dive into Python 3:
http://www.diveinto.org/python3/

Both of these, along with Learn Python the Hard way, are suitable for 
beginner programmers. I'm don't know of anything better for people who 
are already experienced programmers in other languages.




On 26/06/13 10:59, Rachid Belaid wrote:

Learn Python the hard way

http://learnpythonthehardway.org/


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:48 AM, <mailto:a.cava...@cavallinux.eu>> wrote:


Hi,
I'm looking for an introductory book in python: do you have any
suggestion?

I'm shortlisting few so far:

Python 2.6 Text Processing: Beginners Guide (Jeff McNeil):
https://www.packtpub.com/python-2-6-text-processing-beginners-guide/book

Head First Python (Paul Barry):
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920003434.do

The Quick Python Book (Naomi R. Ceder):
http://www.manning.com/ceder/

Volent Python (TJ O'Connor):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Violent-Python-TJ-OConnor/dp/1597499579/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1372239422&sr=8-10&keywords=python

Programming Python (Mark Lutz):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Programming-Python-Mark-Lutz/dp/0596158106/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1372239456&sr=8-8&keywords=python

Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner (Mike Dawson):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Python-Programming-Absolute-Beginner-Dawson/dp/1435455002/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372239604&sr=1-1&keywords=python


All they seem reasonable reading for starters, but I wonder if
there's something else around that can be effective in bringing
skilled developers (C/C++) into the python side.

Thanks
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
Rach Belaid
Flat 9 240B Amhurst Road, London N16 7UL
Phone : +44 75 008 660 84



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Londoners - interested by a pyramid meetup?

[Jonathan Hartley]

I've always had an interest, since noticing at PyCon the last few years 
that a lot of the smartest guys in the room* were using/writing Pyramid.


* measured using proxy indicators such as neckbeards, outlandish 
late-night storytelling ability, Pyramid T-shirts, piercing gaze, etc.



On 03/04/2013 11:23, Rachid Belaid wrote:

Hi folks,

In the last year, I have been doing more and more
pyramid<http://www.pylonsproject.org/>project and adding this
framework to my Flask, Django toolbelt.

I have no idea if there is any others pyramid fan or people doing some pyramid
<http://www.pylonsproject.org/>in London or even people interested into
learning it.

I m have been thinking about kicking off a Pyramid meetup but I'm curious
to see if there any body interested first.

R.




___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] gosh this is exciting

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 03/01/2013 23:19, Michael Foord wrote:

>> > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I*very*
>> > >regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender
>> > >and not to the list.


Does anyone else smell a rat? How would he know Is Mr Foord READING 
ALL OUR EMAILS!?!?!?!


Thank you all for providing a stream of giggles to brighten my day.

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] hexagonal Django

[Jonathan Hartley]

Thanks everyone. I've been enlightened, encouraged and forewarned by the 
responses to my initial question. (and thanks for the Rich Hickey talk, 
I hadn't seen that one)


I absolutely empathise with the warnings to avoid needlessly creating 
extra layers or plumbing.


I have a colleague who says many of the projects where he used to work 
at Microsoft Research used this pattern, and while he liked it overall, 
if he had to find fault, they found it to cause duplication of sorts, in 
things like the persistence component mapping fields of the business 
objects into database-compatible types. Hence adding a field meant both 
changing the core business object, and changing the persistence 
component to incorporate the extra field, and also the plumbing between 
the two.


I also heed the advice to beware shoehorning problems into a single 
one-size-fits-all solution.


I also liked people who brought up particular thorny areas with Django 
in particular, such as the admin views.


However, I'm hopeful that, in my particular case at least, the 
interfaces and extra layers will be close to trivial, and any 
disadvantages may be outweighed by extracting my database/network code 
from my business logic.


I'm starting my week-long exercise on trying it out on a slice of our 
existing Django monster. I'll report back.


Jonathan



On 10/12/2012 19:02, Chris Withers wrote:

Yeah, what he said :-)

(joking aside, John has summed this all up very nicely...)

Chris

On 06/12/2012 00:57, John Lee wrote:

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012, Jonathan Hartley wrote:


The last few weeks I've been thinking about the architectural pattern
known as Clean, Onion, Hexagonal, or Ports'n'Adaptors
<http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/08/13/the-clean-architecture.html> 

(http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/08/13/the-clean-architecture.html). 


I'm curious if many people are applying it in the Django world?

I haven't, yet, but I'm thinking of refactoring a vertical slice of
our monster Django app into this style, and I'd love to hear if you
think it's crazy / brilliant / obvious / old-hat, etc.


I have to confess I've only very lightly skimmed the article (which
looks like it says some sensible things), but that's not going to stop
me pontificating in over-general terms and posting a video that I liked:

The best programmers I've worked with have a knack to ruthlessly pick
the simplest possible abstractions to fit the job in hand. They never
stop thinking to settle on any one-size-fits-all programming style. The
problem with those two statements I just made is that everybody can read
them and think that they agree with them. What *I* mean by simple is
close to what Rich Hickey means in the first part of this talk (though I
don't know enough to decide what I think about how he goes on to defend
Clojure and its design principles in those terms):

http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy


(BTW, it's a shame to hear him give security as an example of a
separable concern, because it isn't one)

The best code, you look at the functionality, then the code, and think
"where is all the code?" and "how did such simplistic code happen to
implement exactly what was needed?". That's different from the "OMG,
what is all this stuff for" feeling you get from over-engineered or just
badly-factored code. The best code is easy to change in the sense that
changes in functionality require commensurate coding effort, and it's
clear what code would have to change. But it is also hard to change, in
the sense that any change that leaves the behaviour the same would
clearly make it worse -- including adding or removing abstraction.

I'd agree with Andy that not fighting too many battles with your
framework has a lot to be said for it (and that it's maybe more
important to nail basic coding practices of the kind you'd find in Code
Complete than to take even a single step away from what the django
tutorial tells you to do). But even short programs can gain simplicity
from ignoring the framework or abstracting it a little, where it suits
the problem, as it often does.


John
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

__
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud 
service.

For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
__




--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 11/12/2012 09:02, Mike Sandford wrote:

On Mon, 2012-12-10 at 21:08 +, Russel Winder wrote:

For me the problem is not Google, the problem is that it is a forum. A
forum is a place you have to go to to find out what is happening. Some
people like this. I want interaction to come to me. In particular it
needs to be in my email.  Google has this idea that if you sign up for
email notifications, you get notified of the presence of an event, you
still have to go to the forum to discover the content of the
contribution.

Nicely put. I've been on some places where notifications come in and you
have to click through (and possibly sign in!) and after a bit that extra
step becomes do it later, and do it later turns into never. An email I
can scan and decide pretty much immediately. And then delete it.

That last point is important. I get to manage my own interaction.

Mike S.

___
pyconuk mailing list
pyco...@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pyconuk



Nobody has proposed replacing the mailing list, or changing it in any way.

Somebody just started a G+ community as well, and thought you all might 
like to know.


Hugs,

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Python-UK Google Plus Community

[Jonathan Hartley]

7hrfErVj
bfPVrmt7FVWne2nrbQWyNliGmcumzWhFPtT8+heHRc8a0vG76CqN98hLtX2CK60=
=dewe
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
pyconuk mailing list
pyco...@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pyconuk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] hexagonal Django

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 05/12/2012 13:08, Michael Foord wrote:

On 5 Dec 2012, at 07:33, Chris Withers  wrote:


On 04/12/2012 17:46, Menno Smits wrote:

On 2012-12-04 14:46, Jonathan Hartley wrote:


I haven't, yet, but I'm thinking of refactoring a vertical slice of our
monster Django app into this style, and I'd love to hear if you think
it's crazy / brilliant / obvious / old-hat, etc.

Since you mentioned this a few weeks back, I've been thinking about this
approach a lot and doing a fair bit of background reading on the idea. I
think it falls in to the brilliantly-obvious category, at least for any
app of significant size. I plan to start using these ideas for my next
big work project (not Django however). Previously, I've tended towards
less flexible, harder-to-test, layered architectures.

The biggest concern I have with this approach is that it appears to preclude 
taking advantage of any features of your storage layer. If your business 
objects have to not know or care about their underlying storage, how do you 
take advantage of nice relational queries, stand alone text indexing service or 
other specific features of the architecture you've chosen?

I guess you still need to provide an abstraction for these features, even if 
only one backend supports the abstraction.
What I'm reading suggests that if, for example, your app needs to use a 
text indexing service, then that's an external system and your 
application core should define an API which it will use to talk to it. 
So you still get to use features like this, but you are obliged to put 
an API layer (and possible inversion of control) between them, rather 
than making the call directly from within your business logic.


Similarly, if your business logic needs a small number of particular 
relational-type queries, then perhaps those queries should be the API 
defined by your core for talking to persistence. If your app needs many 
such queries, or general-purpose relational querying support, then 
perhaps you can create an API which supports general purpose querying 
such as the 'repository' pattern.


I'm no expert. The above is my newfound understanding and some speculation.


There's also the risk that you end up testing each bit (business, views, 
storage) in isolation and never get around to doing the automated integration 
testing required to ensure artifacts of implementation (*cough* bugs) don't 
cause problems across those boundaries...

Well, you need integration / acceptance / functional / end to end tests 
*anyway*.

Michael


That said, I'd love to see a project that's a good example of this, are there 
any around online in Python? The closest thing I can think of is the move to 
the component architecture that Zope did from v2 to v3; architecturally 
brilliant but actually killed off the platform...

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html





___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] hexagonal Django

[Jonathan Hartley]

The last few weeks I've been thinking about the architectural pattern 
known as Clean, Onion, Hexagonal, or Ports'n'Adaptors 
<http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/08/13/the-clean-architecture.html> 
(http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/08/13/the-clean-architecture.html). 
I'm curious if many people are applying it in the Django world?


I haven't, yet, but I'm thinking of refactoring a vertical slice of our 
monster Django app into this style, and I'd love to hear if you think 
it's crazy / brilliant / obvious / old-hat, etc.


Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Ho ho ho, the Christmas London Python Code Dojo

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 29/11/2012 09:20, Mike de Plume wrote:

On Thu, 2012-11-29 at 07:06 +, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:

Hi Folks,

Just a quick note that the next London Python Code Dojo is next
TUESDAY (not the usual Thursday - but TUESDAY, got it..?) 4th
December, starting at 6:30 in the office of Mind Candy (not the usual
Fry-IT - but MIND CANDY, got it..?) which can be found at Mind Candy,
Unit 3.09, Tea Building, 56 Shoreditch High Street, London, E1 6JJ.

Just to make sure you've got it, that's next *Tuesday*, 6:30 at *Mind
Candy*. OK..?

Although, for those of you that read the emails from EventWax, the date
and time are set wrong, so don't rely on them for a reminder :-)

Mike S.


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


Thanks Mike. It only affects the few who signed up last night. I'll make sure 
each affected individual gets another email highlighting th error.

Not sure how it happened, but presumably I messed up. On the eventwax admin 
page, the event date is set to Dec 4th.
https://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/admin/event/55711/basic_info
Did someone just fix it for me, or am I very confused?

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Python job vacancy: Support engineer at Rangespan

[Jonathan Hartley]

London Python-related job vacancy.

Thanks all for your indulgence.

Feel free to contact me personally to ask any informal questions, over a 
coffee or beer if you like, but applications should be sent to 
j...@rangespan.com.


--

Support engineer wanted, to provide first contact support to our business
teams and customers.

You'll take ownership of our support queue, prioritising and responding to
support queries. For more complex issues, you'll work with our developers
and data scientists to understand our platform and the technologies we use,
develop tools to automate manual processes, create bugfixes, and write
documentation.

We'd love for a junior but ambitious applicant to use this role to get deep
experience working with a strong team on a variety of prominent 
technologies.


**Requirements**

Essential:

* Python & the ecosystem of PyPI, pip, virtualenv, etc.
* Some Bash or similar command-line tools.
* Strong written and verbal communication.

Bonus skills, but not required. Those you don't know, we hope you'll pick
up over time as you consult with the rest of the team:

* Django and MySQL (we use for transactional order management.)
* Hypermedia web APIs.
* MongoDB key-value storage for big data.
* Machine learning and map-reduce jobs using Hive and Hadoop.
* Highly available cloud-based infrastructure on AWS.

**About the company**

Rangespan is an e-commerce software company that makes it easy for 
retailers

to offer deep product selection.
We have a small, ambitious team, based in Paddington, London.

**Contact Info:**

* **E-mail contact**: j...@rangespan.com
* **Web**: https://www.rangespan.com/jobs/
* **No telecommuting** (but occasional days working from home OK when 
practical)


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] London Dojo Idea: Module of the Month / Lightning Talks

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 19/03/2012 22:15, David Neil wrote:

On 20/03/12 03:16, James Broadhead wrote:

On 19 March 2012 14:08, Jonathan Hartley  wrote:

On 19/03/2012 13:17, James Broadhead wrote:


Perhaps a "no interactive demos" rule would be good, as these always
take more time than you'd imagine.


But I *like* interactive / live-coding demos! I'd rather make sure the
speakers know they **will** be cut-off in mid-stride if they overrun 
than
attempting to govern duration by the fairly indirect proxy of talk 
format.


So do I, but in my experience they're the easiest way for the
presenter to completely lose track of time. If we were talking about
two 7.5 minute talks, yes. For a 5-minute talk though ...

I quite liked the semi-interactive (pseudo-interactive?) presentation
shell from last time's default argument talk, in that it managed to
replace slides with alternating printed code examples and running code
(without the presenter touching the keyboard). {Was a link to that
shared around?}


Why place limits?


The primary purpose of the meeting is not the lightning talks, although 
they are a welcome bonus - but they eat into time for the remainder of 
the dojo.


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] London Dojo Idea: Module of the Month / Lightning Talks

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 19/03/2012 13:17, James Broadhead wrote:

On 19 March 2012 12:43, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

Last week the London Python Code Dojo cat-herders were discussing the
possibility of making the lightning talks a permanent feature with the
following considerations:

* Talks *strictly* limited to 5mins with an additional 2mins for
questions.
* No more than 3 lightning talks per dojo.
* At least one of the talks to be titled "Module of the Month" where
someone gives us the skinny on a core module or well known / useful
external module.
* Lightning talks to be recorded and posted on a ldbpydojo YouTube
channel and aggregated via http://pyvideo.org/.

We'd want to post the videos under a CC like license (c) whoever the
speaker is. Within only a few months we'd have quite a number of
short, useful videos on Python given by a diverse number of dojo members.

We'd like to know if this idea is a go-er..?

N.

Definitely a good idea - provided that there's an obvious timer
available to the presenter.
Perhaps a "no interactive demos" rule would be good, as these always
take more time than you'd imagine.
But I *like* interactive / live-coding demos! I'd rather make sure the 
speakers know they **will** be cut-off in mid-stride if they overrun 
than attempting to govern duration by the fairly indirect proxy of talk 
format.

For weeks with fewer than 3 talks, it might be nice to show videos
from other events in that time slot(or from other Dojos etc.).
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] PyCon By Video?

[Jonathan Hartley]

Definitely interested. I did attend, and have been catching up on videos 
of talks I missed ever since, but that's still six days worth of video 
to catch up on, so I'd way rather do some of it accompanied by 
discussion with other like-minded geeks.


Should we guesstimate numbers then brainstorm venues?

Jonathan

On 19/03/2012 12:13, Rami Chowdhury wrote:

Hey everyone,

A couple of years ago my then-local Python user group had an afternoon-long 
mini-PyCon -- we watched a few of the talk videos, argued about them, and 
generally had a good time and learned a lot. It was great for those who 
couldn't make it all the way to the conference, but also pretty good for those 
who could -- since PyCon had so many great talks it was impossible to go to all 
of them. Now that the videos are popping up rapidly after PyCon, I was 
wondering if there might be an appetite for a similar meet-up in London?

Cheers,
Rami


Rami Chowdhury
"A mind all logic is like a knife all blade - it makes the hand bleed that uses 
it." -- Rabindranath Tagore
+44-7581-430-517

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the next London Python Code Dojo

[Jonathan Hartley]

I got it. You're 3rd and 4th.

On 24/02/2012 02:09, Zefi Hennessy Holland wrote:

Hey Nicholas,

Could you add me and a friend Clyde Fare to the waiting list as well. I can go 
if there is only one place.

Thanks you.

Zefi



On 23 Feb 2012, at 08:18, "Nicholas H.Tollervey"  wrote:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Folks,

The next London Python Code Dojo will take place in a week's time on
Thursday 1st March from 6:30pm. We'll be meeting at the offices of
Fry-IT (the usual location) and will start with an hour of pizza, beer
and general socialising (thanks Fry-IT). Coding to follow with an
opportunity to win an O'Reilly book at the end.

Sign up here:

http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-3-episode-7

Tickets are usually fully booked within hours so be sure to be quick!

See you there,

Nicholas.

@ntoll.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPRfY6AAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6k5AH/2tfDTdQO87r4BY2iGAHyFXc
2B7A39DZFhSC/3Uf4cpYQks3P0KgHU4sq+0X+azJsCXjRoyIm5HF+X1DhLXTo0cb
S2ZeB2SlevshemsLih26QbNMJaIPfU3i7mehJnqNuvupaeg/QQkg1a11MRIDwJ34
1SAGVRIIkihQGLG8SYjtXz15At/Gces7AZdDAIvas0Y9vS46X8b11UV0xRHen5pl
UdLfLEd7K5b5HbEubnQcktXbo3LlWhnIsOZNaIgFk9uCxtGkT7z8Gc9K4vQBcamC
JEvX+hE2ddDpIydFqdh09cjrDFcoCk9xlbLqlny/CiovTQyL25a0PBf23KDEtDg=
=b//8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the next London Python Code Dojo

[Jonathan Hartley]

Not formally, but I'll keep one. You're the first entry on it. There's 
usually one or two dropouts in the last 48 hours, I'll let you know.


Jonathan

On 23/02/2012 13:16, Colin Hill wrote:

Hi All,
Sugar, just missed last one, is there a waiting list?

Regards,
Colin

Feb 23, 2012 08:18:35 AM, python-uk@python.org 
<mailto:python-uk@python.org> wrote:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Folks,

The next London Python Code Dojo will take place in a week's time on
Thursday 1st March from 6:30pm. We'll be meeting at the offices of
Fry-IT (the usual location) and will start with an hour of pizza, beer
and general socialising (thanks Fry-IT). Coding to follow with an
opportunity to win an O'Reilly book at the end.

Sign up here:

http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-3-episode-7

Tickets are usually fully booked within hours so be sure to be quick!

See you there,

Nicholas.

@ntoll.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPRfY6AAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6k5AH/2tfDTdQO87r4BY2iGAHyFXc
2B7A39DZFhSC/3Uf4cpYQks3P0KgHU4sq+0X+azJsCXjRoyIm5HF+X1DhLXTo0cb
S2ZeB2SlevshemsLih26QbNMJaIPfU3i7mehJnqNuvupaeg/QQkg1a11MRIDwJ34
1SAGVRIIkihQGLG8SYjtXz15At/Gces7AZdDAIvas0Y9vS46X8b11UV0xRHen5pl
UdLfLEd7K5b5HbEubnQcktXbo3LlWhnIsOZNaIgFk9uCxtGkT7z8Gc9K4vQBcamC
JEvX+hE2ddDpIydFqdh09cjrDFcoCk9xlbLqlny/CiovTQyL25a0PBf23KDEtDg=
=b//8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Future Dojo idea ... randomised trials

[Jonathan Hartley]

People are always banging on about how programming lacks scientific 
rigour when it comes to evaluating common practice.


Is TDD *always* faster?
http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/01/11/Flipping-the-Bit.html

Is it *ever* faster?
http://www.davewsmith.com/blog/2009/proof-that-tdd-slows-projects-down

Who knows? Fortunately, we have the tools to answer the question once 
and for all. We, at the London Dojo, could run a randomised trial:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/30/run-your-own-scientific-trials

I'm curious what results we'd get if we randomly made some Dojo teams 
use TDD for the assignment, and others not. Our usual time contraints 
result in a mad scramble for the finish line. Would TDD make the task 
harder, or easier? Would the results be more functional, or less?


Perhaps it doesn't make sense: A team assigned to do TDD might only have 
members who were not practiced in it. But I can't help but wonder what 
results it would produce. Is anyone else curious?


Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Game of Life / TDD ideas

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 07/02/2012 13:41, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:

[snip]
I feel very uncomfortable promoting "one true way" to do development 
since I think it's essential that people discover what works best for 
them after reflection and exploration of lots of different solutions 
rather than forming habits due to a "that's just how it should be 
done" mentality.

> [snip]


I agree with that, but I also feel that there is value in sometimes 
devoting time to push a practice like hardcore TDD, because it's 
something that a lot of people have little exposure to. They think they 
understand it, because it sounds simple on the surface, but they never 
get chance, or lack the experience and determination, to actually try it 
out in depth, and hence people underestimate its value.


I spent years in the 100% TDD nirvana of Resolver Systems, but even then 
I was blown away by the insights I gained from the studious and 
disciplined practices of attending an Emily Bache workshop.


The danger of not pushing "one true way" is that one might end up 
pushing none, and so devolving into an unstructured free-for-all (which 
is fun, but perhaps is only part of what a Dojo could be?)


This gives me an idea for a future Dojo night. Separate post...

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] saturday london python dojos?

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 30/01/2012 23:58, Carles Pina i Estany wrote:

Hi,

On Jan/30/2012, Tom Viner wrote:


I personally would really enjoy having a longer session to create more
ambitious solutions on a weekend dojo. Although I wouldn't be able to
attend every time.

I estimate that I would go 50% of the Python Dojo's that would happen on
weekends.



Personally, I could probably only make it 10% of the time at weekends. I 
much prefer a weeknight slot.


Good luck to those of you who prefer it though, that shouldn't stop you.

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] QTableWidget - add from my files to table

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 20/01/2012 01:19, Dodi Ara wrote:

i wondering, how can i add from my files to table widget?



for example, i have one file

$ cat a
tes
$

so, the "test" fill in the one or more row or columns

any help will be appreciate
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



This mailing list is intended more for discussion of Python events and 
stuff of interest to people in the UK, rather than for questions about 
use. You probably want python-tutor mailing list, which you can read 
about here:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

To give a quick answer though, you read the lines from a file using 
something like:


with open('filename') as fp:
   for line in fp:
  print line

Then you'll have to read the QTableWidget documentation to find out how 
to add those lines to it, instead of printing them.


Best regards,

    Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python jobs at Rangespan

[Jonathan Hartley]

Not your bad at all. Entirely mine. Sorry folks. And for this one too.

On 22/06/2011 20:04, Luis Visintini wrote:

Yeah, my bad
I apologize

Luis

On 22/06/2011 13:42, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:53:26PM -0300, Luis Visintini wrote:
It may not be much but perhaps you would like to take a look at 
my CV at


You gotta love reply-to lists...
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] Python jobs at Rangespan

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey folks,

We seemed to decide the list is happy with a few appropriate job posts, 
and my new employer is hiring, so I thought I'd send this:


Rangespan is a six month old Python-oriented startup, currently around 
ten people, based in Paddington Station, London.


We're looking for experienced developers, with strong computer science 
backgrounds, and the sort of high profile that comes with expertise and 
a pro-active attitude: Python core contributors, conference speakers, 
open source contributors & project leaders, thoughtful agile 
evangelists, and scalability experts. We need a data scientist, too.


In my first two weeks here I've been impressed by the high standards of 
quality and the company's vaulting ambition. We provide high-scale 
e-commerce technology to create a revolutionary marketplace between 
major online retailers, and a vast network of suppliers, transacting 
across millions of products daily. Development has progressed enough to 
start deploying and demonstrating the reality of this vision, but is 
still early enough that all of us have a substantial effect on the 
future of the company.


We have roles for various levels, up to £50k base, plus equity in a 
company that has a fighting chance of revolutionizing the relationship 
between retailers and suppliers.


The sort of experience we're looking for includes:

   * Highly fluent in Python, experienced with Django, Amazon Web
 Services, MySQL and MongoDB.
   * Ability to contribute to an Agile environment, introducing new
 practices, refining our process, being strong on testing and TDD.
   * Expertise in architecting, coding & deploying RESTful web services
 & web applications.
   * Automated deployments to EC2.
   * Provisioning new hardware and debugging live code.
   * Ability to attract additional world-class software developers.
   * BS, MS or PhD degree in Computer Science or equivalent field.

The founders are ex-Amazon executives and engineers, and bring a wealth 
of commercial and operational expertise. While the atmosphere is 
informal and affable, the technical team is intimidatingly proficient. 
To quote one of our founders "It's critical to the success of our 
business to create the highest quality engineering team possible, so 
that we can provide the best technical infrastructure in the world." We 
don't use recruiters, because they don't match up to the quality of 
candidates we insist upon.


If you want to work alongside the best of the best, drop us a line.

I'm happy to answer casual questions personally, and if you want to make 
a formal application, see http://rangespan.com/jobs/


Cheers

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley
Developer
Rangespan Ltd
+44/0 7737 062 225


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Next week in London: Informal python pub meetup with YouGov

[Jonathan Hartley]

It asks me for an email / password at the end of the survey, and I don't 
know what to use.


Am I being dumb?


On 10/05/2011 11:15, Brent Tubbs wrote:

We're doing this!  We'll meet up Thursday night, 7pm, near the YouGov office.  
Follow the Very Official YouGov Survey link below to let us know if you're 
coming and to let us know which pub near the YouGov offices you prefer.

https://start.yougov.com/refer/vLZrkGm8CPkCZR

See you Thursday,
Brent


From: python-uk-bounces+brent.tubbs=yougov@python.org 
[python-uk-bounces+brent.tubbs=yougov@python.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas 
Tollervey [nt...@ntoll.org]
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 1:20 AM
To: UK Python Users
Cc: Michel Floyd; Allan Crooks; Andy Kilner; Berry Phillips
Subject: Re: [python-uk] Next week in London: Informal python pub meetup with 
YouGov

Hi Brent,

Sounds like a plan. Thursday evenings are good for me. There used to be
an occasional London Pyssup organised by Andy Kilner (who I've also
cc'd). He might be able to suggest pubs. Andy..?

All the best,

Nicholas.

On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 01:56 +0200, Brent Tubbs wrote:

Hello Python UK!


I'm a Python dev for YouGov, working from the Palo Alto (California)
office.  Our CTO and I will be in London next week and are interested
in meeting up with some local Python users for a drink.


I'm just writing to gauge interest right now.  If people seem keen
then we'll find a good place and follow up here with more details.


Looking forward to meeting you,
Brent


-

Brent Tubbs



YouGovPolimetrix

285 Hamilton Avenue
Suite #200

Palo Alto, CA 94301

brent.tu...@yougov.com

http://www.yougov.com/





___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Want to join a PyWeek team?

[Jonathan Hartley]

Me! Me! Me! Pick me! I'm the one!


On 04/03/2011 10:19, Ciarán Mooney wrote:

Hi,

The April 2011 PyWeek challenge has just opened for registration. The
premise is to write a game, in python from scratch in a week. More
details are on the website. The actual challenge starts on 3rd April
and finishes 10th April.

http://www.pyweek.org/

It would be cool if a small (or large!) contingent of the UK python
groups would join together for some python game-writing fun. Those
that want to take part please email me.

A few of us did it last year and it was great fun. There is no need to
commit to a full weeks work, most of us worked from home in our spare
time. We met up a few times face-to-face to get some work done which
was also fun, but certainly not required. I'm London based and this
was announced at the London Python Dojo, but that shouldn't be seen as
a barrier to others who want to join the team.

For an example of what can be made the product of our work last year
was "Woger the wibbly wobbly wombat."

http://pyweek.org/e/ldnpydojo/

Now we don't expect to reach the lofty standards of Woger again this
year, and it's certainly a competition where most of the fun is taking
part rather than winning.

One of the best things about PyWeek was checking out the next day and
finding a game that was 10x better than when you left it, with fun
extra features added in by your team mates.

Ciarán
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartleytart...@tartley.comhttp://tartley.com
Made of meat.   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Library for (undirected) graphs in Python?

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 25/01/2011 02:08, Alec Battles wrote:

Now, maybe the solution is to use Python 2.6 instead. Before starting
working on my project I knew nothing about Python, which is one of the
reasons I chose it over, say, Java, and thought that the 3rd version is the
way to go. Is it not?

afaik, the main difference is the assert statement. i'm sure there are
other differences, but as someone who rarely uses python that
'deeply', you should be fine if you start off on python 2.
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
Personally I think there's *heaps* of new stuff in Python 3.0, 3.1 and 
3.2 which really make the language nicer to use. Some of these have been 
backported to Python 2.7, where it could be done without breaking 
compatibility, but if you can use version 3, then you really should!


Some new features of Python 3.0 that I care about:
* Many things that used to return lists now return iterators. e.g. 
dict.keys(), map, filter, range, zip, etc. These can be used just the 
same in 95% of your code, and are much more memory efficient, especially 
when chaining them.

* Set literals: {1, 2, 3} creates a set.
* Division is now sane: 5/2 returns 2.5, instead of 2. Use operator '//' 
for the old behaviour.
* extended iterable unpacking: stuff like this just works:  "a, b, 
*everything_else = my_list"
* packages and modules in the standard library have been moved and 
renamed to be more consistent and comprehensible.
* Ordering comparisons (<, >=, etc) are now sane - comparing different 
types will now in the general case raise a type error, unless they are 
specific pairs of types which make sense to compare (e.g. int to float)
* Dict comprehensions: Mirroring list comprehensions, create dicts using 
"{k: v for k, v in stuff}"
* no more confusion between int and long - everything is now an int 
(which behaves much like the old 'long' did)
* no more confusion between old- and new-style classes, everything is 
now a new-style class


Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Library for (undirected) graphs in Python?

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey,

If you can predict what Python libraries you will depend on, then use 
Python 3 if those libraries are already ported to it.


If not, then use Python 2. Python 2.7 is the current (and almost 
certainly the last ever) 2.x version.


GraphVis is good for visualising graphs. It produces diagrams like this:
http://www.graphviz.org/Gallery.php

There are several Python bindings or wrappers for GraphViz, four are 
listed here:

http://www.graphviz.org/Resources.php

Best of luck,

Jonathan



On 24/01/2011 21:04, Russell Cumins wrote:

Hi Sebastian,

As far as I am aware the Python 3.x series is where the development of 
the language is going, The devs specifically broke backwards 
compatibility in order to tidy up the language. What this means is 
that there are loads of Python libraries that will not work with it or 
have not been ported to it.


I would recommend trying Python 2.6 along with the corresponding 
Pygame release for that version. As it just works and is fairly simple 
to learn.


Pygame
http://www.pygame.org/download.shtml

Kind Regards,

Russell Cumins

On 24 January 2011 19:27, Sebastian Komianos <mailto:seb...@nerdvana.gr>> wrote:


Good evening everyone,

I am a newcomer to Python and I am using it for my dissertation
(not a PhD, just a Bachelor! :)) project.

I've reached the point where I need to create a few very basic
undirected graphs. I spent the last hour or so searching online
but have so far failed to find a library that works with Python 3.
NetworkX (http://networkx.lanl.gov/index.html) looked great and is
quite popular from what I've gathered but its drawing module is
not Python 3 compatible. Which is a pity because all I wanted is
some very very basic graphs. All the other libraries I've found so
far either don't support drawing or are extremely complex for my
needs.

Now, maybe the solution is to use Python 2.6 instead. Before
starting working on my project I knew nothing about Python, which
is one of the reasons I chose it over, say, Java, and thought that
the 3rd version is the way to go. Is it not?

Thank you very much for your time in advance,


---
Sebastian Komianos
http://about.me/sebkom
http://twitter.com/sebkom


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org <mailto:python-uk@python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Announcing the next London Python Code Dojo

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hooray! Once again, it looks like I can make it. Here's hoping it stays 
that way this time.


Thanks! Looking fwd.

Jonathan

On 04/01/2011 10:29, Nicholas Tollervey wrote:

Folks,

Happy new year! Here's to a great 2011 for Pythonistas in the UK.

The next London Python code dojo will be next Thursday (13th January) starting 
at 6:30pm for free pizza and beer.

We’re aiming to build a top-down dungeon / world in PyGame in preparation for 
Bruce's inter-language dojo sometime this summer. This will build upon the fun 
we had at the Christmas dojo where we used PyGame to create a Christmas card. 
No prior knowledge of PyGame or a coding dojo is required to attend this event 
– just an open and enthusiastic attitude! :-)

Details here: 
https://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-2-episode-5

(The usual place and time etc...)

Remember to sign up so we know how much pizza and beer to order (thanks Fry-IT). Also 
O'Reilly have donated "XMPP: The Definitive Guide" for the prize draw (I've 
already got a copy - it's a very interesting book with code examples in Python).

See you there!

Nicholas.
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year....

[Jonathan Hartley]

> a wargame

Hey. What sort of game? 2d? Turn-based? Hex tiles? Or what? And are you 
using Pygame or pyglet or something else?



On 21/12/2010 15:25, John Chandler wrote:

On 20/12/2010 12:18, Andy Robinson wrote:

Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year?
Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things
you've been playing with
It's been an interesting year in Python for me. The London dojos have 
been fantastic - met some great people and learnt a lot of new skills. 
I also submitted some test coverage code to Python 3.2 while at 
EuroPython, which was cool.


Until recently, I was maintaining Python-based data feed systems and 
using a liberal application of Python to fix things that weren't easy 
to fix using other tech. I'm now involved with a new company and doing 
prototyping work for redeveloping a huge system written in PHP and 
Perl, replacing particular core components with Python, Django and 
Celery. Hurray!


Two personal projects have occupied me this year. The first is a 
wargame written using PyGame - the code is a mess and has been 
neglected the last few months. I plan to rewrite most of it based on 
lessons learnt and release the source code properly (it's in a private 
BitBucket repo at the moment).


The second project is FluidInYourEar, which uses FluidDB as the 
backend database. It's a music band/genre browser which ultimately 
wants to become a communal music recommender (mostly heavy metal but 
could be anything). I'm midway porting it to Flask and Google's 
AppEngine, but don't have time to progress it at the moment. I gave a 
talk in October on FIYE which was the first time I've given a tech 
talk - hope to do more such talks next year, including one at PyCon AU 
2011 if I can pluck up enough courage.



John


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year....

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 21/12/2010 14:45, Michael Foord wrote:

my favourites being contextlib.ContextDecorator


I didn't know that had your fingerprints on it! Nice one - I love this 
and use it all the time.


Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year....

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 20/12/2010 16:51, Matt Hamilton wrote:

On 20 Dec 2010, at 15:41, Jonathan Hartley wrote:

clients with extremely large spreadsheets (which take hours to recalculate on 
Excel)

*shudder*

But that is what makes what you have done even more amazing :) I'm pretty sure 
spreadsheets of that level of complexity have a lot of subtle excel'isms that 
you must support and at least be able to do on your system.


Heh. Even as a spreadsheet-making company, we empathise with the shudder 
- they are brilliant ad-hoc investigation tools, but are often 
inappropriately used, simply because they are the one tool many people 
are most familiar with. My boss coined (or at least uses) the term 
'frankensheet' :-) You are right to pinpoint Excel compatibility as our 
biggest demon - we have Excel import functionality for the desktop 
product, but not yet for the web app, and it's not 100% - we sometimes 
come across customer sheets which use functions we haven't implemented 
(we opted to implement them as-and-when we came across them, so as to 
avoid doing lots of work emulating corners of Excel which are rarely 
used.) Similarly, we do occasionally find Excel sheets using formula 
grammar that we can't yet cope with, but that is rare these days. The 
biggest outstanding concerns on this front are user-interface issues (an 
Excel sheet that has some formatting that we don't properly duplicate, 
making it look wonky or even unreadable) or sheets that use VBA - we 
haven't yet implemented anything to deal with that.


 Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year....

[Jonathan Hartley]

OK, I'll bite, because what we're doing is exciting and new to me, so 
maybe to others also:


Here at Resolver a couple of years ago we wrote a spreadsheet-like 
desktop application entirely in Python. Cell formulae are also full 
Python expressions, with a slightly augmented grammar to allow the use 
of common spreadsheet-isms, such as 'A1:C4' to refer to a cell range. 
This was specifically written in IronPython, with a Windows Forms GUI, 
because a number of our financial industry clients wanted .Net 
interoperability. We had a little trepidation about using IronPython, 
but in practice it turned out to work really well for us - the 
IronPython team did a really good job. Conversion between .Net and 
Python types is unobtrusively and automatically done, so that, for 
example, you don't have to worry about creating a .Net mapping type to 
pass to a static-typed C# API - you can simply pass it a regular Python 
dict, and everything magically 'just works' beautifully. In theory, we 
should have been able to run cross-platform using Mono, but to get 
started quickly, we used a third-party GUI component which made win32 
calls. This made it impossible to run on other platforms, and with 
hindsight we should have fixed this already, by replacing that GUI 
component, but that's still to be done.


This year we converted that desktop application into a web application 
called Dirigible. Think 'Google Docs' spreadsheet, but again with full 
Python expressions in cells, plus the ability for users to inject their 
own code into the recalculation process, for example to define 
functions, import third-party modules, iterate over cells, etc. This is 
running in CPython, as a Django app, on Amazon EC2 instances. We have 
already made it possible for clients with extremely large spreadsheets 
(which take hours to recalculate on Excel) to manually partition 
calculations to run in parallel across several EC2 instances. Soon we 
hope to make this process automatic, by examining the dependency graph 
(which cells depend on which other cells) and passing large stand-alone 
chunks of the graph to be recalculated on other machines.


A lot of our core code, such as formula parsing and dependency 
calculation, didn't use any .Net at all, and so getting Dirigible 
running under CPython using code from Resolver One was straightforward. 
Nevertheless, personally I'd never done any Django nor Javascript, nor 
EC2 before, and the other guys on the team weren't massively experienced 
in these things either, so there was a concern about how quickly we 
could make progress. Happily, we managed to go from first conception 
('mkdir Dirigible') to first beta release of Dirigible in two and a half 
months, and have been releasing updates every couple of days since, 
which is something I'm very proud of.


Going forward, we hope that the two products will compliment each other 
(web apps aren't the right solution for everyone), and that code-sharing 
between the projects will mean that improvements in one (e.g. in 
providing robust statistical functions, or more Excel-compatible 
functions) will also improve the other.


Interested to hear anyone else's stories.

Jonathan Hartley
Resolver Systems


On 20/12/2010 12:18, Andy Robinson wrote:

As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" discussion

Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year?
Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things
you've been playing with

I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow...

- Andy
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] London Python Roles

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey,

Interesting to hear that, thanks Micaheal.

Can I ask you to clarify one thing you mentioned? My understanding was 
that speed of numerical modelling was only of such vital import if you 
are doing low-latency automated trading, in the sort of scenario where 
you need to be on a box placed on a LAN in proximity to the trading 
server, in order to make sub-millisecond trades. On the other hand, if 
you're running across the internet, then any slowdown due to using 
Python verses another language would be vastly swamped by network and 
other IO delays. Am I very much mistaken?


Thanks for sharing the benefit of your experience.

Jonathan

On 15/12/2010 12:45, Michael Grazebrook wrote:

I work in the financial sector. Python is definately increasing.

Some systems are being written in Python, but that's not its main use. 
Certainly not for calculations and financial models, where they 
normally have to be very fast.


It's popular as a repacement for Perl, for example in batch 
automation. I've also used it for reporting: its excellent ability to 
interface to libraries means you can drive Excel (or most things .Net) 
from Python. I even used it to link to Bloomberg once, creating a 
framework to get the data to test some finanical models.


Report Lab does a fair bit of work in the financial sector in a rather 
different field.


Little in the web field in Finance: maybe that's just my persoanl 
experience.


On 15/12/2010 11:57, Matt Hamilton wrote:
We've also seen it (as a python web dev company) increase quite a bit 
in the web field. Another big area I keep seeing python jobs 
advertised are in the financial services industry. Just as engineers 
used fortran and business people used cobol, I think financial 
services are using python for a good language to write 
calculations/simulations of financial models.


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] London Python Roles

[Jonathan Hartley]

The list wil get used for what it ends up getting used for, by which I mean 
recruiters are part of the community and will have to decide for themselves 
whether they want to post here. But for what it's worth, I personally don't 
like job postings on the Python-uk list, and I applaud the idea to create a 
separate UK jobs list.



Jonathan Hartley
http://tartley.com

richard barran  wrote:

>On 13 Dec 2010, at 19:36, Tim Golden wrote:
>> I'm genuinely surprised by this reaction which comes up
>> even more forcefully on the main Python lists. It seems
>> like a reasonable use of a (technically and geographically)
>> focused mailing list. You might not like job agencies, but
>> there doesn't seem to be anything intrinsically wrong with
>> them.
>> 
>> Am I missing something? Is some kind of Linux-culture thing
>> which doesn't spill over...?
>
>+1
>The Python community is still very small; I was surprised at the last 
>Europython to discover that most of the people present did not earn a wage 
>from Python. Anything that helps more pythonistas earn a living from their 
>passion is good IMO.
>While I can understand strong opposition on the main Python list (which is 
>about the language itself), python-uk is a low-volume list for discussions 
>about the Python *community* in this country... and jobs are a part of that.
>Obviously, once tens of thousands of UK devs earn their living from Python, 
>then I will join the "NO" camp :-) 
>
>
>
>___
>python-uk mailing list
>python-uk@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] A nascent London Python meetup group needs your input...

[Jonathan Hartley]

http://www.meetup.com/The-London-Python-Group-TLPG/ideas/541336/

That is all.

--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] PyCon co-presenter sought for OpenGL talk

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey folks,

I'm searching for a co-presenter for a talk I've proposed at PyCon 
(Atlanta 2011).


The title is 'Algorithmically Generated OpenGL Geometry', and it's 
currently envisioned as an improved version of a talk I already gave at 
EuroPython under the title 'Hobbyist OpenGL : Flying High'

(blogged with screenshots here: http://tartley.com/?p=1207)

The talk presents a simple and Pythonic way to model 3D polyhedra, shows 
how to convert those into the arrays that OpenGL expects, and then plays 
around with a bunch with algorithms that act on the polyhedra class, to 
generate fun & interesting virtual sculptures.


I'd like a co-presenter simply because I think it would be more fun to 
prepare and present with someone else than by myself, plus of course the 
talk will benefit from the imagination of two people being applied to it.


People I asked to date are either too busy or shy or can't attend, so I 
thought I'd try this more scattershot approach. If you have any interest 
(even if you have reservations, e.g. would like to work on it, but are 
too shy to present, or would like to present, but don't have much time 
to help prepare), then let me know.


Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

[python-uk] pyweek is GO

[Jonathan Hartley]

 PyWeek (the 'write a game in Python in a week') competition has 
started today.


pyweek.org

I'm giving it a go again. It has been hilarious in the past. If anyone 
else fancies it, drop me a line. It has been surprisingly effective for 
people to just contribute an evening or two of work to a team effort in 
the past, so you don't have to make a huge time commitment. Also, if 
you're in London, maybe we could get together and code in the same room 
& bounce ideas, even if we work on different entries.


Best,

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Python comparison matrix

[Jonathan Hartley]

Wow. With command-line and platforms and features! You've not skimped, 
have you? Impressive. Nice work.


I'd have been tempted to try and auto-generate (parts of) it, but I 
don't know how rational that decision would have been. Did you consider 
that, and figure it was simply less work to get stuck in manually?


Jonathan


On 09/08/2010 17:25, Alex Willmer wrote:

I've finally updated and expanded a Python matrix I started just after
PyCon UK 2008. It compares Python versions 1.5 - 3.1 with the
built-ins, modules, keywords and features each implements. You can see
it at

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AsSu6wxSusr7cEEwQ0xzZW9wUHFTeldXRW4wRU91QkE&hl=en_GB&output=html

I've sourced it mainly form the on line documentation, currently only
CPython is properly covered. Before I go further, I'd like to get some
feedback.
Would this be of much use to you?
What else would you like to see in such a document?
Would you like to help out?

Regards, Alex
   


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] easy_install pip won't work, am concerned Ministry of Packaging may chase after me.

[Jonathan Hartley]

On 01/04/2010 02:39, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:14:50PM +0100, Ed Stafford wrote:
   

Mike,

Glad it worked for you. Although the Ubuntu team does a fine job of
package management I'm still a bit hesitant to use their python packages.
It's easy enough using vanilla python to get everything you need going. In
the future you can do the following just as easily.

`wget [1]http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/ez_setup.py`
`sudo python ez_setup.py`
`sudo easy_install pip virtualenv virtualenvwrapper`
 

I strongly advise not using easy_install, it's awful.
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

   
Living up to your domain name, I see. I might have preferred the gentler 
'has been superseded'. :-)


So you're recommending installing pip manually, by downloading from 
PyPI, unzipping and running 'python setup.py install', followed by 'pip 
install virtualenv virtualenvwrapper'. I know that's not much bother, 
but in case it enhances my understanding, are there specific reasons why 
'easy_install pip' is harmful in this context? By definition this 
install isn't into a virtualenv.


Thanks,

Jonathan

Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Sudoku links & dojo ideas

[Jonathan Hartley]

Hey Toby,

Which bit were you referring to? If it was the 'math lectures' bit, then 
I didn't want to miss you off the list. Was it that, or something else?


  Jonathan

Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley



On 11/12/2009 18:08, Toby Watson wrote:

Sounds like a plan. Please let me know if you decide to go with this.

cheers,
Toby
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

   

___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Sudoku links & dojo ideas

[Jonathan Hartley]

Is anyone interested in going through those Strang's lectures with me? 
Like a book club. We could watch one lecture a week at our own 
convenience, and then use a google group or somesuch to discuss our 
answers to the exercises.


A few of us are currently doing the same with SICP, and although our 
progress is not terrifically speedy, it seems to be working out.


Jonathan


On 11/12/2009 10:20, Ben Moran wrote:
If anyone is interested in the Sudoku solver from last night's dojo, 
the code & links to the original paper can be found at 
http://transfinite.wordpress.com/2009/12/06/solving-sudoku-with-l1-norm-minimization/ 
.  The slides are at 
http://www.slideshare.net/bnmoran/l1-sudoku-2657614 .


(If you have been inspired to brush up your linear algebra, a good 
place is Gilbert Strang's MIT course,  
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Mathematics/18-06Spring-2005/CourseHome/index.htm 
)


Thinking about ideas for future events, I think it could be fun to do 
some more hands-on coding in small groups.  How about:


- Something like Robocode (maybe using Jython? 
http://www.mail-archive.com/edu-...@python.org/msg05371.html)
- Playing with the IPython parallel features - 
http://ipython.scipy.org/doc/rel-0.9.1/html/parallel/index.html
- Something with Twisted- I'm really keen to learn this. Perhaps we 
could set up a chat server using the demo projects, find some Eliza 
chatbot code & wire it in and stage a networked Turing test...


Cheers

Ben
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk




--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Reminder: 3rd London Python Code Dojo Thursday 5th November

[Jonathan Hartley]

I'm afraid I won't be there on the 5th, I have tickets for /Röyksopp/. :-)

Have fun without me!

   Jonathan
 <http://royksopp.com/>
Nicholas Tollervey wrote:

Hi Folks,

Just a quick reminder that the next dojo will be at 6:30pm, on 
Thursday November 5th at the Fry-IT offices (details at the end). From 
then on we'll try to run the meeting on the first Thursday of every 
month.


As we only got so far with tic-tac-toe we'll attempt to finish it off 
as this seemed to be an interesting problem that people enjoyed 
hacking away at. There will be the usual free pizza and beer (thanks 
Marcus) and O'Reilly have said they'll supply another "prize" - the 
new Natural Language Processing book.


To see how far we got the code is here: 
http://github.com/ntoll/code-dojo/tree/master/tic-tack-toe/


To sign up visit the event website here: 
http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/3rd-london-python-code-dojo (this is so 
we get an idea of how much pizza/beer we need to order)


Comments and suggestions most welcome...

See you there!

Nicholas

Address: Fry-IT Limited
503 Enterprise House
1/2 Hatfields
London SE1 9PG

Nearest Tubes: Waterloo Southwark

Telephone:
0207 0968800

Google Map: 
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1%2F2+Hatfields,+London,+SE1+9PG&sll=51.507954,-0.107825&sspn=0.007439,0.022724&ie=UTF8&ll=51.508235,0.107825&spn=0.007439,0.022724&z=16&iwloc=A 


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Reminder: London Python Code Dojo Tomorrow

[Jonathan Hartley]

In general 1st Thursday is fine for me too, but this month I have 
tickets for Röyksopp on Nov 5th, so will have to see you all next time...


What's the opposite of \o/? I guess it's just :-(


Nicholas Tollervey wrote:
Apologies, that should be Thursday 5th November 2009 remember, 
remember... etc...


On 16 Oct 2009, at 14:39, Nicholas Tollervey wrote:

A quick write-up of last night's code dojo: 
http://ntoll.org/article/london-python-code-dojo-2


The beer and crisps Pyssup is next Wednesday (unfortunately I can't 
make it).


I've also just realised that during the round-up session last night 
we mentioned we should start a pattern of holding it on the third 
Thursday of every month. Unfortunately, I've just realised that the 
Pyssup guys "bagsied" the third "x" of every month for their event. 
Might I suggest we move the dojo to the first Thursday of the month 
so we keep some space between these events..? That'll mean the next 
Dojo will be on Thursday 3rd November, 6:30pm at Fry-IT's offices. 
Anyone have any problems with this..?


As always, comments and suggestions welcome,

Nicholas.

On 14 Oct 2009, at 09:29, Nicholas Tollervey wrote:


Hi,

A quick reminder that the second London Python Code Dojo is tomorrow.

Sign up here: http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/2nd-london-python-dojo 
(so we know how much pizza/beer to order)


Starting at 6:30pm at the same place as last time:

Address: Fry-IT Limited
503 Enterprise House
1/2 Hatfields
London SE1 9PG

Nearest Tubes: Waterloo Southwark

Telephone:
0207 0968800

Google Map: 
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1%2F2+Hatfields,+London,+SE1+9PG&sll=51.507954,-0.107825&sspn=0.007439,0.022724&ie=UTF8&ll=51.508235,0.107825&spn=0.007439,0.022724&z=16&iwloc=A 



This month's challenge is to create from scratch a 
Tic-tac-toe/noughts and crosses game with an AI opponent - the first 
test for which can be found here:


http://github.com/ntoll/code-dojo/tree/master/tic-tack-toe/

Free pizza and beer will be provided by Fry-IT from 6:30, coding 
will start when the food is finished. All participants who code will 
have their name put into a hat for a "prize draw" for Python related 
books donated by O'Reilly and others.


See you there,

Nicholas.
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


_______
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk



--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] London Meetup

[Jonathan Hartley]

Anyone in favour of lunch in or around Clerkenwell (I have a bicycle) 
email me off-list. I'd be dead keen.


   Jonathan


Carles Pina i Estany wrote:

Hi,

On Oct/10/2009, jonathan hartley wrote:
  

Welcome to London Ciarán!

Which end of town are you in? I'm in Camden, working in Clerkenwell.



+1 in Clernkewll, near to Farringdon station... more people from than
area?

Welcome to London Ciarán

  


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] London Meetup

[jonathan hartley]

Welcome to London Ciarán!

Which end of town are you in? I'm in Camden, working in Clerkenwell.

The dojo is a new idea, scheduled in addition to London Python meetups. 
There have been intermittent London Python meetups in the past, arranged 
by a variety of worthy people. Sometimes they are lightning talks, 
sometimes booze-ups. We're trying to establish a new regular schedule 
for them but I can't remember what it is! They are announced on this 
list when they happen though.



Paul Nasrat wrote:

2009/10/9 Ciarán Mooney :
  

Hi,

I've just moved to London, and after being dissapointed by the lack of
LUGs in the area I have decided to start looking for Pythonistas.



There is Lonix and Gllug - but I'm not sure how active they are atm
but they do still meet, personally I find Linux user groups less
likely to be full of contributors and get less out of them than I did
in early 2000s.

  

Are there any active groups that meet in the London area, preferably
within walking distance of the tube?



We're having a dojo next week and there was a DJUGL (Django User Group
London) on the 24th. Which should be several python meets a month.

What sort of areas are you interested in - systems, dev, languages,
etc. There is a lot going on in a bunch of communities in London.

Next meet is:

There is a sign up and information page here:

http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/2nd-london-python-dojo

We're doing tic-tac-toe (noughts and crosses) with and AI opponent.

18:30 15 October 2009

Address:
Fry-IT Limited
503 Enterprise House
1/2 Hatfields London
SE1 9PG

Telephone: 0207 0968800

Nearest Tubes: Waterloo Southwark

Paul
___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

  


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] 2nd London Python Dojo - 18:30 15 October 2009 at Fry-IT

[Jonathan Hartley]

again!

Jonathan Hartley wrote:

inline

Jon Ribbens wrote:

Also I'd like to put in a strong vote for part of the spec being that
the game will allow human v human, human v computer, or computer v
computer games (by entering "number of players: zero" ;-) )
  
We talked about this during the dojo planning meetup last week. We all 
had great interest in this idea and pursued it for some 40 minutes or 
so. However, we reluctantly decided to scrap it because we couldn't 
figure out a simple way of enabling it without providing intrusive 
frameworks of code to channel the direction of the dojo participants.


If you can figure out a way, I'd be open to the discussion, but I'd be 
wary that we might simply be retreading the discussion that was 
already had.


Having said that, I realise with a moment's reflection that we were 
somewhat transfixed by the probably misleading initial suggestion 
(mine?) that a single process should play as one player, and that to see 
computer-to-computer matches we should wire up the stdin of one process 
to the stdout of another.


Your framing of the problem as a single process playing against itself 
is doubtless more straightforward and simpler to implement (although it 
lacks the aspect that I found most appealing of allowing matches between 
differing implementations.) However, your version may have the advantage 
of actually being achievable from a blank slate in the very limited time 
available.


However I feel like a dojo is good for practising technique, 
test-driven, design, refactoring, and as we saw last time, having a 
subject matter which puts us under time pressure does somewhat force all 
these things out of the window, since people feel under pressure to make 
progress towards the ambitious goal. So I would vote for having the 
simplest dojo we can possibly persuade ourselves to accept, at least 
until we find out feet.


   Jonathan

--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] 2nd London Python Dojo - 18:30 15 October 2009 at Fry-IT

[Jonathan Hartley]

inline

Jon Ribbens wrote:

Also I'd like to put in a strong vote for part of the spec being that
the game will allow human v human, human v computer, or computer v
computer games (by entering "number of players: zero" ;-) )
  
We talked about this during the dojo planning meetup last week. We all 
had great interest in this idea and pursued it for some 40 minutes or 
so. However, we reluctantly decided to scrap it because we couldn't 
figure out a simple way of enabling it without providing intrusive 
frameworks of code to channel the direction of the dojo participants.


If you can figure out a way, I'd be open to the discussion, but I'd be 
wary that we might simply be retreading the discussion that was already had.




--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] Code dojos

[jonathan hartley]

We just sent a mail to this list a couple of days ago, saying we're 
organising a Python Dojo in London.


I'll copy it again for you:

Announcing the London Python Dojo:

Sign up here:

http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/4391294/

The details:

6:30PM for a 7:30PM start of the Dojo

The proposed project will be creating a social graph using the twitter API.

Nearest Tubes:
Waterloo
Southwark

Address:
Fry-IT Limited
503 Enterprise House
1/2 Hatfields
London SE1 9PG
Telephone:
0207 0968800

Google Map:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1%2F2+Hatfields,+London,+SE1+9PG&sll=51.507954,-0.107825&sspn=0.007439,0.022724&ie=UTF8&ll=51.508235,-0.107825&spn=0.007439,0.022724&z=16&iwloc=A
___



greg nwosu wrote:
Does anyone know of any python code dojos being run in the london 
area, if there are none does anyone want to help me set one up?


Greg


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
  


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Proposed PyCon UK UnConference, 5th September

[jonathan hartley]

I'm unable to attend that date, so won't be signing up. :-(


René Dudfield wrote:



On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Michael Foord 
mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk>> wrote:


In case anyone didn't spot it, the URL to book at is:

  http://pyconuk.org/booking.html

Michael

John Pinner wrote:

Hi,

We confirmed the Unconference - http:///pyconuk.org
<http://pyconuk.org> <http://pyconuk.org> - a couple of weeks
ago and announced it on the pyconuk and python-uk lists.


Regrettably there has been a very poor response (2 delegates,
and one of those is me!) so faced with venue and insurance
costs of approx £2k to cover it looks like we will have to
cancel. Very disappointing given the high level of interest
expressed at EuroPython.

Unless of course there is a sudden rush...

We'll give it until the middle of next week before making a
final decision.

Best wishes,

John
--



Cool, I've booked it!

Looking forward to meeting some uk python peoples.


I hope it goes ahead... I was planning to book it earlier, but forgot 
about it.  I imagine others also need reminding :)



cu,


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
  


--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

Re: [python-uk] [EuroPython] London Python Pub Night

[jonathan hartley]

To clarify: The proposal for Aug 20th is for other events as well as the 
dojo, lightning talks and the like, followed by the pub. So even if the 
dojo doesn't happen this time, the event itself is on like Donkey Kong 
regardless, is my guess.



jonathan hartley wrote:

Hi folks,

The idea of a Python dojo night in London has been suggested. 
Partially by me.


A venue has been generously offered for the evening of August 20th 
(see below, emails from the Europython mailing list)


I'm mad keen on the idea. However, I can't be present that night 
because I'm out of town Aug 18th to 23rd.


Does anyone else feel up to leading the charge? I'd love to pass on 
what I know, but be warned that I know almost nothing, having gleaned 
the entirety of my experience of the subject from discussion and 
examples from Emily Bache at EuroPython last month.


As I understand it, the word 'dojo' is a figurative reference to a 
martial arts training meetup, to improve one's skills. A coding dojo 
consists of a hands-on programming exercise, performed as a group. The 
intent is to choose a problem which is simple enough to allow 
participants to focus on the process of arriving at the solution, 
without being overly distracted by the unknowns of the problem domain 
or any inherent complexities of the resulting code. This makes it an 
ideal format to learn or hone skills such as:

+ choosing one design over another
+ test-driven development
+ egoless programming
+ evidence-driven debugging
+ no doubt many more

The best one-page description of a coding dojo I have found to date is 
here:

http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~gpollice/Dojo.html

Your thoughts, objections, and expressions of curiosity are all much 
appreciated,


   Jonathan

Jonathan Hartley wrote:

Sounds like a fantastic idea, thanks for the prod Nicholas.

Does it make sense to migrate the discussion to the Python UK mailing 
list?

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

I'm not well qualified to explain Dojos, but I'll give it a shot. 
More from me on python-uk, later today...



Nicholas Tollervey wrote:

Guys,

It was good to meet up last night. One of the topics that often came 
up was "we should make this a more regular event". Jonathan also 
mentioned organising a "Code Dojo" - I'll let him explain what 
that'd involve.


So, while the iron is hot: how about a time and place for August..?

Say 7pm, 20th August, starting with a "Code Dojo" / lightning talks 
followed by the pub at the offices of Fry-IT? (Thanks Peter and 
Marcus for volunteering these premises for free):


503 Enterprise House
1/2 Hatfields
London SE1 9PG

Comments, suggestions, confirmations..?

Nicholas.

On 10 Jul 2009, at 10:51, Stephen Emslie wrote:

Those at EuroPython in Birmingham showed quite a bit of interest in 
regular London Python meetups. So while it's is still fresh in all 
of our minds, lets do a post-convention debriefing at the Old Bank 
of England pub on Fleet Street next Wednesday.


Ideally, we would like to make this a regular event. We all hope 
Simon Brunning (or someone else) finds the time to reboot the more 
official London Python meetups, with talks + sponsored beer & 
pizza, etc. so the intention here is to provide a relaxed and 
informal regular meet to drink ale and discuss Python (drinking of 
ale is optional).


Time: Wednesday 15 July, from 7pm
Venue: Old Bank of England Pub: 
http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/66/660/


In case you weren't at EuroPython but would like to come, we'll 
display the usual can of spam to make us identifiable.


Stephen Emslie & Andy Kilner
___
EuroPython mailing list
europyt...@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


___
EuroPython mailing list
europyt...@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython





--
Jonathan Hartley  Made of meat.  http://tartley.com
tart...@tartley.com   +44 7737 062 225   twitter/skype: tartley


___
python-uk mailing list
python-uk@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk