Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-14 Thread Rick Chagouri-Brindle


 Commodore was an important player here is the UK.

 Eventually they went for the then emerging PC market, and more or less 
 lost out.
   
I would recommend anyone interested in the Commodore story read On the 
Edge - The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore - it makes a 
fascinating read.
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-13 Thread Dilwyn Jones
As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-)
room:
Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other
133[!], a
custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam
boxes;
one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the
above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as
98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs
e.g.
have been an education.

My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy
hour!--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello.

Actually, I  _do_ have a life outside computers.

Doug L. 37830

 Hi Doug,

 You are right, I have lots of different computers around too, mostly
 picked up for little actual cost.

 It is the activity that is the fun, not the OS as such.

 The so called old computers let you get at them, rather than the
 new
 computers which just give you ready made applications.

 -- 
 Malcolm Cadman
My son (age 11) is a good example of what you say.

I spend much of my time at work with Windows-based software and [apart
from being the office expert :-( fixing the odd glitch] I am purely 
a user and don't get the same
enjoyment of using those computers as I do from my SMSQE/QDOS systems.

Whereas my son is quite competent at using the programs on his PC, he
takes little or no interest in how it actually works. The applications
are what he's into and what he (and his friends) can do with them, 
whether it be games, digital camera, mp3, etc etc

He can't understand why I still use a system which is over 2 decades 
old when I have a perfectly good fairly modern PC!

I've given up trying to explain to him :-)

-- 
Dilwyn Jones

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-13 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message 
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
  extdgl42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

Now: Who knows what secret passages  shadows lie in the hearts of QLs.

I guess that is what we usually get around to doing on this list ... 
some of the time ... :-)

Seeing all the different systems, including OSs, is part of the fun. 
But it did my heart good a few nights ago to see the familiar three 
screen pic for the first time in a year or two, even if it was on a 
monochrome monitor full of jiggle from the 50/60 problem. Now if I can 
get a decent monitor (possibly get fixed the Acorn Tony tried to 
resurrect at QL NA) and a (fully) working set of floppy drives. It 
would warm the cockles of my little black heart to be able to do 
large shares of what I currently take PCs and Macs to do on that Little 
Black Box.

Good luck with breathing the life back in to that old QL.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-13 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
, extdgl42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

Interesting; reminds me I was just on Amazon reading about their 
history of Commodore. Apple, IBM, M$ et al survived. Commodore was one 
of the main players early in personal computing, and in fact is said 
there to have been one of the main reasons Sinclair was knocked out of 
the game. But the others are remembered and Commodore is not, despite 
having had many firsts. I don't have the URL right with me, but I 
expect one can google or search Amazon on computer books and 
commodore history.

Commodore was an important player here is the UK.

Eventually they went for the then emerging PC market, and more or less 
lost out.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-12 Thread Neil Riley
Speaking of retro computers, 

I have gotten rid of a few items recently but i still have a nice 
working ZX81 with a Ram pack which doesn't wobble ( clever 
hook that fixes it firmly in place ), a beautiful  Original Atari 800 
which I'm on the verse of selling even though I don't want to, plus 
a couple ATARI Stfm's and a rather stunning Amiga 1200.

I only use my QL  Aurora now though as I haven't the room for 
the others.

Shame
Neil

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12 February 2007 07:47 

extdgl42 wrote:
 As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-)
room: Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other
133[!], a custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in
styrofoam boxes; one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for
four of the above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's
as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The
Macs e.g. have been an education.

   
I think exposing the younger generation to earlier machines is a 
wonderful way of reigniting waning enthusiasm.  My nephews thoroughly 
enjoy playing on the earlier micros, and they love the QL in particular

. . . it just looks so cool (in their words).

 My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy
hour!--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello.

 Actually, I  _do_ have a life outside computers.

 Doug L. 37830

 -Original Message-
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm

***
The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient.
It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may 
it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 
01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company 
nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your 
responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses.
No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email 
communications.

BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House,
Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ.  Registered No. 5290544 England

 www.boxclever.co.uk
***

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-12 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tony Firshman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

Rick Chagouri-Brindle wrote:

 Actually, that reminds me.  I also teach on a volunteer basis at a
 local pre-school.  I use the term teach with this age group very
 loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how
 quickly.  As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for
 them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons
 of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children.  They
 have all taken too it so well, it is amazing.  Many of the children use
 the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!!

Of course they do.  Ben at age 8 became the password holder and
controller of
the classes  computer.  He kept on correcting the teacher and helping
her - so she passed responsibilty!  It is still happening now.  He has
given up A level computing because the teacher knows less than him.

Umm, the latter seems bad news.

Teachers do not know everything now, and can never do so.

We work with the student, to lead on to further development.

Which is around facilitating learning, rather than the didactic teaching 
of learning.

I have had some fantastic work from A level students who knew they were 
in charge of their own learning.  Which doesn't mean they didn't still 
receive inputs about things they did not yet know or had not yet come 
across.

One of the things that is about to be set up at my school - with the 
extra funding from M$ - is a Learning Gateway.  Which will mean a lot of 
resources will be available 24/7.

This is something we all talked about, years ago.  Now the hardware and 
software is available to be up to the job, and things like broad band 
access being free to students all day has helped.  As well as many 
students have similar, or better, facilities at home too.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-12 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rick Chagouri-Brindle 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

 Fair enough.  Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time
 lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach
 they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . .
 hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment
 is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both
 using technology to achieve a purpose.


 I teach Technology, in a secondary school.

 I hate all these pseudo titles, that come and go ...

I couldn't agree with you more . . . there is too much emphasis at work
and in education on naming things!

Yes ... new, so called, initiatives ... :-(

 We just use the hardware and software to help achieve project work.

And why not? Well, after all, isn't this what technology is for? At
times we all get too focussed on technology without purpose, I know I
can be guilty of that!!!

Our role is to try to see the technology as a tool to encourage 
creativity, inventiveness, et, through project based work.

 Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too.

I couldn't agree with you more. I have two young sons and the older boy,
who is four ,has his own laptop, but we ensure that he mixes sitting at
the computer with actually physically making things with kicking a ball
around with . . . . . . .
 I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications.
 What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely
 a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history
 and development of ICT.  That, in my view, is a real shame.  Even in
 programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic -
 with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge
 variety of better cross-platform languages.  Oh well, that's life, I guess!


 Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present.

A colleague of mine actually had a student penalised for thinking
outside the box and using an alternative language - Ruby - for a project.
 My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$
 products, as a part of the deal.

MS aren't stupid, are they?

Yes, by pumping in funding now, for their own products, they are seeding 
the next generation to use them.

Actually, that reminds me.  I also teach on a volunteer basis at a
local pre-school.  I use the term teach with this age group very
loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how
quickly.  As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for
them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons
of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children.  They
have all taken too it so well, it is amazing.  Many of the children use
the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!!

Umm ... this is why it is still fun and interesting to use the QL, in 
its modern form and derivatives.

My introduction to home computing was in the heady days when there was 
lots of free choice around.

Now it is M$ dominant.  Although the iPod has shown that the market 
dominance can be challenged, and new markets created.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-12 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
, extdgl42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room: 
Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a 
custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes; 
one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the 
above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as 
98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g. 
have been an education.

My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy 
hour!--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello.

Actually, I  _do_ have a life outside computers.

Doug L. 37830

Hi Doug,

You are right, I have lots of different computers around too, mostly 
picked up for little actual cost.

It is the activity that is the fun, not the OS as such.

The so called old computers let you get at them, rather than the new 
computers which just give you ready made applications.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-12 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rick Chagouri-Brindle 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

extdgl42 wrote:
 As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) 
room: Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 
133[!], a custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in 
styrofoam boxes; one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for 
four of the above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's 
as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . 
The Macs e.g. have been an education.


I think exposing the younger generation to earlier machines is a
wonderful way of reigniting waning enthusiasm.  My nephews thoroughly
enjoy playing on the earlier micros, and they love the QL in particular
. . . it just looks so cool (in their words).

I will remember to mention that to the ex-Sinclair industrial designer, 
who became a friend of mine.

There is a link on my web site to his current activities, as well as his 
old designs for Sinclair.

http:\\www.mcad.demon.co.uk/lquan.htm

The link is at the bottom of the page.

 My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy 
hour!--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello.

 Actually, I  _do_ have a life outside computers.

 Doug L. 37830

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Urs Koenig (QL issues)
Hi all

One of my remaining QL tasks is to let the ITC profs remember from
where the real experts/technologies are (were) coming from. Doing 
that
I experienced the same impressions as Rick did. Once the young ITC
profs hear and see what and how a QL and QDOS operated some 20
years ago they get very interessted/impressed.

Eg. Our company is in a network of about 30 ITC companies. In 
summer
2004 the monthly First monday event was organised by me around 
my
private QL thing. It was named The roots, the cousins, the 
innovations.
We had a very special guest. Tim Bucher, cousin of my wife and 
Vice
President at Apple (at that time). Both Tim and I had very 
personal
speeches and presentations. I did some live QL demos. Eg. having
 100 jobs running in parallel under SMSQ/E compared to Windows NT 
4
where NT went down on that. Tim did impress us all with his 
inventions.
My computer museum was on display with different QL systems 
running
software. We even had a working original Macintosh from 1984.

The 40 or so attandes were impressed and even today, almost 3 
years
later people talk about it one day or another.

Some resources:
http://www.computervalley.
ch/website/veranstaltungen/firstmonday/020804_TimBucher.htm
http://www.computervalley.
ch/website/veranstaltungen/firstmonday/Foto_Gallery_Tim_Bucher.htm
http://www.computervalley.ch/020804/Besuch_Tim_Bucher.pdf
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/QLvsJaguar/QL.html

Enjoy the Sunday...Urs
 
Ursprüngliche Nachricht
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Datum: 11.02.2007 01:23
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

I just thought I'd share a recent QL experience with everybody!  
The 
company I work for is very keen on promoting personal development 
outside the normal boundaries at work. Think outside the box is one 
of 
the MD's catch-phrases.

Anyway, as IT Manager of this company, it became my turn to 
organise 
something concerning to my field but not directly work related: so 
I 
organised a little presentation and history tour, using my 
collection of 
PCs as illustrations.  People were able to have a go, play with 
them, 
run programs and generally see how computers have developed over 
the 
years.  To illustrate my presentation, I used my ZX81 (the first PC 
I 
ever owned), BBC Model B, BBC Master, Spectrum+3, Amiga 1200, Z88 
and of 
course the Sinclair QL.  I was wonderful to see the amount of fun 
people 
had with these older machines, and some of the younger members of 
the 
company were really surprised at what had constituted a computer 
back 
then!  It's such as shame that for many youngsters today, learning 
ICT 
(as the schools irritatingly insist on calling it) is simply 
learning 
how to use Microsoft products . . . .

One of the most interesting comments was how cool the QL  looked 
. . . 
it seems that well-designed retro is in
___
QL-Users Mailing List
a href=http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm; target=_BLANK
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm/a



___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm

Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rick Chagouri-Brindle 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

I just thought I'd share a recent QL experience with everybody!  The
company I work for is very keen on promoting personal development
outside the normal boundaries at work. Think outside the box is one of
the MD's catch-phrases.

Anyway, as IT Manager of this company, it became my turn to organise
something concerning to my field but not directly work related: so I
organised a little presentation and history tour, using my collection of
PCs as illustrations.  People were able to have a go, play with them,
run programs and generally see how computers have developed over the
years.  To illustrate my presentation, I used my ZX81 (the first PC I
ever owned), BBC Model B, BBC Master, Spectrum+3, Amiga 1200, Z88 and of
course the Sinclair QL.  I was wonderful to see the amount of fun people
had with these older machines, and some of the younger members of the
company were really surprised at what had constituted a computer back
then!  It's such as shame that for many youngsters today, learning ICT
(as the schools irritatingly insist on calling it) is simply learning
how to use Microsoft products . . . .

It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, 
not just learning IT systems.

We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like 
PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics.

At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC 
Applications.

One of the most interesting comments was how cool the QL  looked . . .
it seems that well-designed retro is in

Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was cool at the time, and won 
many awards.  It still remains cool.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Rick Chagouri-Brindle

 It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, 
 not just learning IT systems.

 We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like 
 PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics.

 At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC 
 Applications.
   
Fair enough.  Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time 
lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach 
they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . 
hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment 
is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both 
using technology to achieve a purpose.

I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. 
What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely 
a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history 
and development of ICT.  That, in my view, is a real shame.  Even in 
programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - 
with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge 
variety of better cross-platform languages.  Oh well, that's life, I guess!


   
 One of the most interesting comments was how cool the QL  looked . . .
 it seems that well-designed retro is in
 

 Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was cool at the time, and won 
 many awards.  It still remains cool.

   
Indeed! 
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Rick Chagouri-Brindle

 It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, 
 not just learning IT systems.

 We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like 
 PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics.

 At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC 
 Applications.
   
Fair enough.  Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time
lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach
they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . .
hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment
is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both
using technology to achieve a purpose.

I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications.
What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely
a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history
and development of ICT.  That, in my view, is a real shame.  Even in
programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic -
with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge
variety of better cross-platform languages.  Oh well, that's life, I guess!


   
 One of the most interesting comments was how cool the QL  looked . . .
 it seems that well-designed retro is in
 

 Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was cool at the time, and won 
 many awards.  It still remains cool.

   
Indeed!

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Malcolm Cadman
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rick Chagouri-Brindle 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

 It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum,
 not just learning IT systems.

 We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like
 PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics.

 At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC
 Applications.

Fair enough.  Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time
lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach
they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . .
hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment
is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both
using technology to achieve a purpose.

I teach Technology, in a secondary school.

I hate all these pseudo titles, that come and go ...

We just use the hardware and software to help achieve project work.

Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too.

I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications.
What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely
a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history
and development of ICT.  That, in my view, is a real shame.  Even in
programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic -
with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge
variety of better cross-platform languages.  Oh well, that's life, I guess!

Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present.

My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ 
products, as a part of the deal.


 One of the most interesting comments was how cool the QL  looked . . .
 it seems that well-designed retro is in


 Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was cool at the time, and won
 many awards.  It still remains cool.


Indeed!

-- 
Malcolm Cadman
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Rick Chagouri-Brindle


Malcolm Cadman wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rick Chagouri-Brindle 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

   
 It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum,
 not just learning IT systems.

 We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like
 PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics.

 At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC
 Applications.

   
 Fair enough.  Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time
 lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach
 they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . .
 hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment
 is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both
 using technology to achieve a purpose.
 

 I teach Technology, in a secondary school.

 I hate all these pseudo titles, that come and go ...
   
I couldn't agree with you more . . . there is too much emphasis at work 
and in education on naming things!
 We just use the hardware and software to help achieve project work.
   
And why not? Well, after all, isn't this what technology is for? At 
times we all get too focussed on technology without purpose, I know I 
can be guilty of that!!!
 Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too.
   
I couldn't agree with you more. I have two young sons and the older boy, 
who is four ,has his own laptop, but we ensure that he mixes sitting at 
the computer with actually physically making things with kicking a ball 
around with . . . . . . .
 I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications.
 What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely
 a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history
 and development of ICT.  That, in my view, is a real shame.  Even in
 programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic -
 with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge
 variety of better cross-platform languages.  Oh well, that's life, I guess!
   

 Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present.
   
A colleague of mine actually had a student penalised for thinking 
outside the box and using an alternative language - Ruby - for a project.
 My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ 
 products, as a part of the deal.
   
MS aren't stupid, are they?

Actually, that reminds me.  I also teach on a volunteer basis at a 
local pre-school.  I use the term teach with this age group very 
loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how 
quickly.  As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for 
them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons 
of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children.  They 
have all taken too it so well, it is amazing.  Many of the children use 
the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!!

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread QL2K
Well we have the same problems at school, college and university in
France...

And I don't know about you all, but what I do with my son (recently 6 years
old) is we are working together some computing courses.
At this time we are working on ORIC with commands like :

PRINT 2+3=; 2+3
SHOOT, EXPLODE or PING and so one.

And he already knows how to deal properly with CLS or RUN commands.

My daughter (5 years old) want to do the same when she was able to read and
write.

It other he have to be familiar with both the keyboard and the BASIC syntax
he asking me for small listing of programs in order he typed it on ORIC.
(Well it's an ATMOS as the ORIC 1 have a keyboard that is quite hard to use
by childs).

In a few time we will work on QL, I'm working on the restoration on his own
QL.
What's he true too, that is my childs sayed that QL, ORIC and Amiga
computers are pretty. The PC is without this think that made these others so
attractive.

Finally, he prefer work on that such of old computers instead of his own PC
where there is a lot of games or so but where creativity is not so easy to
make in action.

So I definitively agree with you when computer history should be learned at
ITC or equivalent courses.

Jimmy.

-Message d'origine-
De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Rick
Chagouri-Brindle Envoyé : dimanche 11 février 2007 23:28 À :
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane


 It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, 
 not just learning IT systems.

 We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like 
 PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics.

 At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC 
 Applications.
   
Fair enough.  Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time
lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach they
insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . 
hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment is
no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both using
technology to achieve a purpose.

I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. 
What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely a
Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history and
development of ICT.  That, in my view, is a real shame.  Even in
programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - with
all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge variety of
better cross-platform languages.  Oh well, that's life, I guess!


   
 One of the most interesting comments was how cool the QL  looked . . .
 it seems that well-designed retro is in
 

 Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was cool at the time, and 
 won many awards.  It still remains cool.

   
Indeed! 
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Rick Chagouri-Brindle

QL2K wrote:
 Well we have the same problems at school, college and university in
 France...

 And I don't know about you all, but what I do with my son (recently 6 years
 old) is we are working together some computing courses.
 At this time we are working on ORIC with commands like :

 PRINT 2+3=; 2+3
 SHOOT, EXPLODE or PING and so one.

 And he already knows how to deal properly with CLS or RUN commands.

 My daughter (5 years old) want to do the same when she was able to read and
 write.

 It other he have to be familiar with both the keyboard and the BASIC syntax
 he asking me for small listing of programs in order he typed it on ORIC.
 (Well it's an ATMOS as the ORIC 1 have a keyboard that is quite hard to use
 by childs).

 In a few time we will work on QL, I'm working on the restoration on his own
 QL.
 What's he true too, that is my childs sayed that QL, ORIC and Amiga
 computers are pretty. The PC is without this think that made these others so
 attractive.

 Finally, he prefer work on that such of old computers instead of his own PC
 where there is a lot of games or so but where creativity is not so easy to
 make in action.

 So I definitively agree with you when computer history should be learned at
 ITC or equivalent courses.

 Jimmy.
   
Isn't it an interesting situation, where we find that old computers 
are more interesting, or more fun.

My eldest son is four and he already has fun using his laptop - he can 
use the internet (firewall controlled of course) and run his games and 
education programs - but what he really wants to learn is daddy's old 
computers, he likes looking inside and was fascinated watching a 
soldering iron being used! Of course, part of it is that he is at the 
age where he just soaks up information, but I think more than this, it 
is that he wants to learn, not have everything done for him, and that is 
the beauty of the old computers.

As soon as he can read properly - at the moment he only recognises odd 
words and names - I am going to follow your example to teach him basic 
programming. He wants to learn already . . .

By the way, I used to love the ATMOS!  When I was a kid, a friend had 
one and we had great fun with it. At the time I had a BBC B - which 
seemed much more serious - and then a QL (well the QL was officially my 
Dad's for work).

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Tony Firshman
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Rick Chagouri-Brindle wrote:

 Actually, that reminds me.  I also teach on a volunteer basis at a 
 local pre-school.  I use the term teach with this age group very 
 loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how 
 quickly.  As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for 
 them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons 
 of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children.  They 
 have all taken too it so well, it is amazing.  Many of the children use 
 the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!!
Of course they do.  Ben at age 8 became the password holder and
controller of
the classes  computer.  He kept on correcting the teacher and helping
her - so she passed responsibilty!  It is still happening now.  He has
given up A level computing because the teacher knows less than him.

Tony


- --
QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman
TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFz7KXM3RzOs8+btoRAmqnAJ9P39JRM4NBkPW4wVndP7ua2dOIBQCdFyc1
qgb42XI/ybO2fcJwSjzl2Pg=
=pfJk
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread extdgl42
As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room: Three 
Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a custom build 
long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes; one somewhat 
working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the above. All as old as about 
1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 
10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g. have been an education.

My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy hour!--Apologies 
to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello.

Actually, I  _do_ have a life outside computers.

Doug L. 37830

-Original Message-
From: Rick Chagouri-Brindle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Feb 11, 2007 6:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane



Malcolm Cadman wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rick Chagouri-Brindle 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

 Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too.
   
I couldn't agree with you more. I have two young sons and the older boy, 
who is four ,has his own laptop, but we ensure that he mixes sitting at 
the computer with actually physically making things with kicking a ball 
around with . . . . . . .
 I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications.
 What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely
 a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history
 and development of ICT.  That, in my view, is a real shame.  Even in
 programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic -
 with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge
 variety of better cross-platform languages.  Oh well, that's life, I guess!
   

 Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present.
   
A colleague of mine actually had a student penalised for thinking 
outside the box and using an alternative language - Ruby - for a project.
 My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ 
 products, as a part of the deal.
   
MS aren't stupid, are they?

Actually, that reminds me.  I also teach on a volunteer basis at a 
local pre-school.  I use the term teach with this age group very 
loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how 
quickly.  As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for 
them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons 
of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children.  They 
have all taken too it so well, it is amazing.  Many of the children use 
the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!!

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm

___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Rick Chagouri-Brindle


Tony Firshman wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Rick Chagouri-Brindle wrote:

   
 Actually, that reminds me.  I also teach on a volunteer basis at a 
 local pre-school.  I use the term teach with this age group very 
 loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how 
 quickly.  As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for 
 them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons 
 of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children.  They 
 have all taken too it so well, it is amazing.  Many of the children use 
 the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!!
 
 Of course they do.  Ben at age 8 became the password holder and
 controller of
 the classes  computer.  He kept on correcting the teacher and helping
 her - so she passed responsibilty!  It is still happening now.  He has
 given up A level computing because the teacher knows less than him.
   
My nephew was in a similar situation . . . in the end he got so fed up 
and dispirited. Oh well, at least I was able to introduce him to the 
weird and wonderful machines although he found my ZX81 amusing to say 
the least!!!
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm


Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane

2007-02-11 Thread Rick Chagouri-Brindle

extdgl42 wrote:
 As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room: Three 
 Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a custom 
 build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes; one somewhat 
 working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the above. All as old as 
 about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as 
 SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g. have been an education.

   
I think exposing the younger generation to earlier machines is a 
wonderful way of reigniting waning enthusiasm.  My nephews thoroughly 
enjoy playing on the earlier micros, and they love the QL in particular 
. . . it just looks so cool (in their words).

 My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy 
 hour!--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello.

 Actually, I  _do_ have a life outside computers.

 Doug L. 37830

 -Original Message-
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm