[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
- Original Message - From: Roy wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!) I approached Fred Toussi a while ago about doing an upgrade to Text 87 and suggested that he could produce a new version using the new colours and adding simple stuff like access to pointer driven menus for file selection (via Menu_rext). He was not keen. I suggested he gave us the sources and we could get someone to do it but he regarded his sources as being secret . Ah yes, but was he offered serious money? Qliberator was another story but Ian Stewart, who was my only contact, had only a small part in writing it. The other author, whose name escapes me, had long since disappeared and the sources were not available. I have now no contact for Ian so when the last few copies I have are exhausted I cannot sell it. I have not sold a copy for some time so I am not too worried but I would have liked to get it updated. -- This is really disappointing, because, if the sources were available they would probably be relatively cheap to buy. It would have been a valuable contribution to the future of the QL. But again, would money help in a search for the source code? Don't forget I am not suggesting asking people for the source code, but buying it. No trader could afford to do this, because it would have to be done at a loss. Quanta does have the resources and this could become one way in which Quanta could better serve the QL community. Geoff
Re: [ql-users] problem with the new C68 pieces for WMAN
The RELOC_START entry is in the version of the startup module that is used if you are using LD v2 with c68. The RELOC_START is a symbol that is automatically generated by LD v2. Dave - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] problem with the new C68 pieces for WMAN In a message dated 14/03/04 11:39:37 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After compiling, I am getting an undefined symbol 'RELOC_START'. Looking at my original LIBC_A file, I see it in there but I don't see it in the new version with George's updates.Any ideas?I'm sorry if something I have done with LIBC_A has made RELOC_START disappear. Just to check I went back over every version of LIBC_A I have from 1999 onwards. There is no sign of RELOC_START in any of them.I wonder where that came from?George
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 21:41, Tony Firshman wrote: No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. I thought you were more wolf like (8-)# but in sheeps' clothes, of course... Wolfgang Hmmm, this subject is getting a bit 'woolly'. But I mutton't make bad jokes about it. I expect I'll get 'lambasted' for these awful puns now :-) -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferably only sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need a new freezer... -- Rich Mellor OK, I'll test this by ordering a program from you. 20 best Welsh sheep in the post to you tonight ;-) -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In a message dated 20/03/2004 13:17:04 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferablyonly sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need anew freezer... -- Rich MellorOK, I'll test this by ordering a program from you. 20 best Welsh sheepin the post to you tonight ;-) Do I have any software worth 20 best Welsh sheep?? --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
[ql-users] Sprite Program
Can someone please remind me - where can I get the new sprite designer program for Pointer Environment. See, this is the problem with public domain software - it is not advertised anywhere! --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferably only sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need a new freezer... -- Rich Mellor OK, I'll test this by ordering a program from you. 20 best Welsh sheep in the post to you tonight ;-) -- Dilwyn Jones not that simple I think, are they in lamb?, or maybe lambs?, breeding stock?, ewe's?, tups?. What is the exchange rate welsh sheep to Euro sheep. And last but by no means least - you may need a license ! All the best - Bill
Re: [ql-users] Sprite Program
In a message dated 20/03/2004 13:49:01 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can someone please remind me - where can I get the new sprite designer program for Pointer Environment. See, this is the problem with public domain software - it is not advertised anywhere! OK - I found sprited at last on Thierry's site (v1.10) - is there a later version. This program seems easy enough to use, but has no manual alas and I can see no way of saving the design as a blob and a pattern which is what I really wanted to do (as EasySprite attempts to do). IIs there another version or program?? --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
[ql-users] Important Changes
Hello ql-users, I will be swapping over the list now. You will automatically be subscribed to the new list and be receiving instructions on how to post immediately. If you have any problems please contact me on the email below. -- Best regards, Bruce mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 at 22:45:55, Roy wood wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Qliberator was another story but Ian Stewart, who was my only contact, had only a small part in writing it. The other author, whose name escapes me, Adrian Soundy had long since disappeared and the sources were not available. I have now no contact for Ian so when the last few copies I have are exhausted I cannot sell it. I have not sold a copy for some time so I am not too worried but I would have liked to get it updated. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Beginning a succesful QL journey
In a message dated 19/03/2004 02:00:06 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Stephen,Have been lurking here for a while, reading the various threads, alongwith looking at different websites, faqs etc. As a beginner, the QL worldseemed very complicated, with strangely named Trump Cards, Gold Cards, andhundred of programs, expansions and websites uncomfortably squeezing theirnames around the letters "Q" and "L". Anyway, things are a little moreclear now and i'm keen to give the machine itself a try.Ah that sounds great. I'm not often on this list, but since I'm here at the moment, I'll use the opportunity to influence you right from the start :-)What are your opinions on beginning this venture, for someone on quite atight budget but with enthusiasm for computer meddling and unusualhardware. Just how much use would a standard QL be (there seem to be quitea few on EBay at any one time)?I had a quick look into the latest QUANTA and QL Today mags for you, but saw no cheap standard QL at the moment. Sometimes standard QLs are given away for free, especially at QL meetings.It seems to me that a floppy disk interface of some description is a necessity to connect the QL to the outside world (i.e. for downloading files from the net and transferringthem across). But oh, what about the disk format? Didn't think about that.I'd say you need at least a GoldCard - otherwise most of the QL software that is developed nowadays won't be usable for you. The GoldCard already includes a floppy disk interface.Is a Qubbide hard drive interface another must have?Almost. The GoldCard allows to use floppies with 2.88 MB, so if you're extremely patient, you could start without harddisk.One thing you must be aware of, is that you can not use a normal monitor for a standard QL. Either you need enough room for a second monitor (an old-fashioned beast that supports the QL video timings) or you need a QL mainboard replacement (Aurora).More expense but thenwhat's the point in getting involved with the QL if i'm trying to usehardware unrepresentative of the majority of current users. But thenthings start to become quite expensive and I risk spending a lot (for me)of money on something which i'll get little use our of.This is difficult to resolve because a full featured QL hardware might contain even more components than you expect. It is not unusual that one has speeder card, mainboard replacement, keyboard interface, harddisk interface, improved serial interface, mouse interface, backplane. Plus, because all that never fits into the QL case, mechanical aids to mount all the stuff in a different case.That was, by the way, one of the reasons why there's the Q40 ;-)) Which has basically the same video hardware, memory/interrupt structure and processor family as the QL, but most of the old peripherals are modernized/replaced/integrated on one board, and there's a muuuch faster CPU. I hesitate to recommend the Q40 for you, because it's usually not a low budget solution. But in the rare case someone offers you a 2nd hand Q40, it can't be wrong if you compare the price of the Q40 to the sum of all the QL components/interfaces you'd want otherwise.All the bestPeter You can also have a look at my own website: www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/sinclairql2.html for a list of second hand items for sale at low prices, including a Q40 !! We do not have any Gold Cards for sale at the moment, but can supply new ED disk drives when you do find one. I have also been promised a couple of Miracle Systems hard disk drives which plug into the QLs ROM port. Unfotrunately, this does not seem compatible with the latest operating system SMSQ/e (despite both being originally written by Tony Tebby). If you want to use a hard disk (which is preferable) and decide to go for a QuBIDE, then you need to bear in mind, that you will need to build your QL into a PC style case instead. You can also consider one of Tony Firshman's Flash EPROMs (RomDisq - see : http://www.firshman.co.uk/romdisq.htm) However, as Peter says, you need to compare the cost of acquiring a full second hand system with a ready built system, such as the Q40/Q60, or just make do with an emulator running on Windows/Linux/Mac operating systems. The beauty of buying second hand is that you do not have to buy everything together - a standard QL with Trump Card and dual DD disk drives should suffice to get you going. The Trump Card provides a total of 896K memory, disk access and the all important Toolkit II. However, in order to transfer disks to/from the PC, you will need a program called: DiscOver - can you still get this on a QL disk?? However, just what proportion of the QL users still use this type of system is unknown. --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our
Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st a...
In a message dated 19/03/2004 11:17:31 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Huhu, dada. Kindergarten level reached at last, and Roy pulls out the intellectual waterpistol :-) Since the easiest way to escape that game level is the 'unsubscribe' command, I'll just use it hereafter.I'm well aware that I'm only a small candle in software development, not comparable to the real free software heros like Mark Swift, Jonathan Hudson, Richard Zidlicky and others. Nevertheless I think my offer was necessary, although the chances it would be accepted were small from the start.Those who think I still had free software ambitions left in Post-Tony-Tebby SMSQ/E (and would therefore 'give a present') are as wrong as can be. As far as I'm personally concerned Wolfgang can keep his license forever - I simply don't care anymore.One last remark. I've often been misinterpreted in a way that I'd want _everything_ to become free software. This is not so, although I'd probably never want any money for a piece of QL software that I write myself. Having read between the lines in all this, the status of SMSQ/e and just how "free" it is, appears to be more a battle of wills between the parties concerned. I do not see that this situation will ever be resolved, especially now that various changes/additions to SMSQ/e have already been submitted and incorporated in the code. I wonder if all the people who contributed those changes would now agree to SMSQ/e and their code being made freely distributable under GPL, or would we have to go back several versions so that only Tony Tebby would have to agree to this (if indeed he now changed his mind to allow it)?? The whole situation is a mess and it is only the users who are losing out. If Peter is unwilling to allow the majority of QL users have access to his code, then so be it - we will just have to accept that situation and move on. Most people seem perfectly happy with SMSQ/e and how it is now and the way in which changes are managed and released. Most people are ignorant of why Peter and others want SMSQ/e to be under GPL and also what changes this would actually bring. To tell the truth, I would bet most people simply do not care, so long as SMSQ/e continues to be developed and released for the good of the QL community. Enough of the bickering. If a programmer wants to release his hard work for only a small percentage of the QL community, then so be it. It's just a shame that very few people will ever see the benefits of his work. Peter, if you no longer want to subscribe to this list, then this will only push you further from the QL community and even fewer people will know what great feats you achieve. However, it is your choice. Maybe once the software is released, you will advertise it in Quanta and QL Today so that people will be aware of it, what it does and what is can be used on. However, I doubt many people will use it (alas) as there are so few who use QDOS Classic as their operating system of choice. I wonder why people do not chose QDOS Classic as their main operating system. Could it be: 1) It has not been improved for some years (so far as I know, since it was ported to the Q40) 2) It has no pointer environment, which many people are used to, and which is used by a vast majority of current programs (IS THIS STILL TRUE)?? 3) It is difficult to get running and cannot access the same files on the hard disk as SMSQ/e (if you have a dual boot system). 4) It still contains bugs left over from QDOS, and lacks many of the facilities of SMSQ/e (multitasking BASICs, faster interpreter, SERMouse drivers) I stand to be corrected on these comments on QDOS Classic and I am sure that George Gwilt would love a simple step by step guide as to how to set it up, so that we can find out why QWord cannot open its TurboPTR windows under it. --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Beginning a succesful QL journey
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 at 06:16:31, wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) In a message dated 19/03/2004 02:00:06 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: snip I have also been promised a couple of Miracle Systems hard disk drives which plug into the QLs ROM port. Unfotrunately, this does not seem compatible with the latest operating system SMSQ/e (despite both being originally written by Tony Tebby). If you want to use a hard disk (which is preferable) and decide to go for a QuBIDE, then you need to bear in mind, that you will need to build your QL into a PC style case instead. You can also consider one of Tony Firshman's Flash EPROMs (RomDisq - see : http://www.firshman.co.uk/romdisq.htm ) _not_ eproms - flash rom chips. RomDisq needs a QL with memory expansion. However a basic QL system is _not_ recommended as there is very little you can do with it. A Trump Card (768k extra memory/disk interface/toolkit II) is probably the bottom end option. I have always preferred the hardware solutions, but I am biased (8-)# However, as Peter says, you need to compare the cost of acquiring a full second hand system with a ready built system, such as the Q40/Q60, or just make do with an emulator running on Windows/Linux/Mac operating systems. The beauty of buying second hand is that you do not have to buy everything together - a standard QL with Trump Card and dual DD disk drives should suffice to get you going. The Trump Card provides a total of 896K memory, disk access and the all important Toolkit II. However, in order to transfer disks to/from the PC, you will need a program called: DiscOver - can you still get this on a QL disk?? ... or a QL emulator on the PC. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
In a message dated 18/03/04 16:57:35 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 18 Mar 2004 at 9:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might try driving without tyres. But would that be driving? Wolfgang Bumpily - as without SMSQ/E. George
Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st ...
In a message dated 19/03/04 11:35:27 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I stand to be corrected on these comments on QDOS Classic and I am sure that George Gwilt would love a simple step by step guide as to how to set it up, so that we can find out why QWord cannot open its TurboPTR windows under it. It would have to be a very simple guide since with my inability to understand instructions (sometimes including my own!) it would be a stumble by trip journey instead of step by step. George
Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
On 19 Mar 2004 at 9:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bumpily - as without SMSQ/E. On the other hand SMSQ/E does seem to give the, er, bumps to some... Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In a message dated 19/03/2004 15:48:38 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It ties in a bit with Geoff's comment about a 1000 pounds work contract.Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine).For me, it is a question of commitment: if people buy my (or, indeed anybody else's software) for the QL, they still show commitment to the QL. They show that they care enough about the machine to put some of their money in it. If the software is totally free, this is no longer true.It is also a question of trying to subsidise the few traders we still have and without whom, I firmly believe, there would be no more QL community, period.(Although, I don't know how much giving them a program to sell isn't a poisend pill since, at least sometimes, it seems to cost more to produce/upgrade etc, than the money they get from the sales).So, if I have a program that I think could be sold , I'll always try to sell it. Any profit I make from it is reinvested in things QL Agreed - the QL traders continue to support the QL mainly from a love for the system and the people involved. The more disputes that arise and the less people that buy any software, the less the incentive for us to carry on with the QL (most QL traders already make an annual loss). I know that RWAP Software for one has hardly had ANY software sales in the past year and if it wasn't for the bit of income from second hand equipment which we sell on behalf of Quanta mainly, then we would have folded long ago and never had the funds or inclination to produce QWord. Public Domain and free software is all very well and good, but without the traders to provide it, provide advertising revenue for QL Today and Quanta and generally to promote the QL, there would be no community left. The main problem with free software is that there is no ongoing support or promotion - how many people that read QL Today and Quanta have no internet access to check on developments and new releases of software, or even to access public domain software. Dilwyn keeps his public domain service alive, but it is unlikely to generate enough income to pay him to advertise it. (Dilwyn, I wonder how many public domain disks you have sold in the last 6 months). If SMSQ/e were to become truly free software, surely the traders could not charge to sell it. In which case, who would promote it in QL Today / Quanta and pay for the advertising / deal with customer complaints, feedback and assistance in using it. I doubt anyone would do this - If you think this would not be the case Peter, then when are you going to start advertising QDOS Classic and providing contact details for people to know where to get upgrades andget help in installing the system / reporting bugs or problems?? --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 at 11:13:18, wrote: This was Rich with bad attribute--^ (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Agreed - the QL traders continue to support the QL mainly from a love for the system and the people involved. The more disputes that arise and the less people that buy any software, the less the incentive for us to carry on with the QL (most QL traders already make an annual loss). Who? I think none do now, if you account for time. Working for myself means time is money. Any time I spend on QL work means I earn less money. I make no profit even if I ignore my time, but I am a hardware man (8-(# What _is_ the problem of money? It seems no problem if it goes out, but only if it comes in. Money is only a token for favours. Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:54, Tony Firshman wrote: Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. Wolfgang
[ql-users] Re: Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st a...
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP The whole situation is a mess and it is only the users who are losing out. No, that is not the case. The users have gained by having a stable system that is being developed in a coherent manner. Peter could be part if that if he chooses and he could become a reseller - he had the offer - and then sell it at cost so making it, if effect, free. If Peter is unwilling to allow the majority of QL users have access to his code, then so be it - we will just have to accept that situation and move on. Most people seem perfectly happy with SMSQ/e and how it is now and the way in which changes are managed and released. This is, in fact, what most of them have told me. Most people are ignorant of why Peter and others want SMSQ/e to be under GPL and also what changes this would actually bring. To tell the truth, I would bet most people simply do not care, so long as SMSQ/e continues to be developed and released for the good of the QL community. Enough of the bickering. I agree. I just wanted to point out that, after months of peace on the subject Peter pops up and dangles a mythical carrot and starts everyone off again. If a programmer wants to release his hard work for only a small percentage of the QL community, then so be it. It's just a shame that very few people will ever see the benefits of his work. True. And no reason at all why he should not give it away free as a module which can be bolted on to SMSQ/E. Did I say no reason? -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex. Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP (Although, I don't know how much giving them a program to sell isn't a poisend pill since, at least sometimes, it seems to cost more to produce/upgrade etc, than the money they get from the sales). Very true in some cases especially in the amount of time taken up in supporting people who only use the manual when the phone is out of order but we do it and will continue to do it because it is usually fun and the appreciation we get is outweighed by the pain. There are times, however. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex. Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk
[ql-users] GPL or not GPL, that is the question
Peter Graf a écrit: Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: The software Peter is producing seems too important (...) Not if it isn't made available. Which is only true if my offer is rejected. I therefore conclude that keeping SMSQ/E from from the GPL has a much higher priority (for Wolfgang Co.) than the new technical features I'd contribute otherwise. No problem for me personally - it saves me a lot of work. I'll see if the Q60 will be blessed with Minerva, it could be a nice basis for QLwIP. I do not understand both subjects. 1) What is the advantage of GPL when the source code is available? As I see it the current licence is only a security for TT: if an unknown organisation did make money with SMSQ/E, there would be an argument to get something for him. IMHO he deserves it. Please Peter, is there a way to achieve the same result with this GPL stuff??? OTH apparently Linus does make a lot on money with his free stuff, so maybe I am wrong here? 2) If Peter does his developments under GPL, then there is no way to prevent someone else to use them further. So his work is obliged to be made available. Or this subject becomes even darker to me.
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
Wolfgang Lenerz a écrit: Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine). For me, it is a question of commitment: if people buy my (or, indeed anybody else's software) for the QL, they still show commitment to the QL. They show that they care enough about the machine to put some of their money in it. If the software is totally free, this is no longer true. I agree with that opinion. Arnould
RE: [ql-users] Beginning a succesful QL journey
Peter Graf wrote: I hesitate to recommend the Q40 for you, because it's usually not a low budget solution. But in the rare case someone offers you a 2nd hand Q40, it can't be wrong if you compare the price of the Q40 to the sum of all the QL components/interfaces you'd want otherwise. I have a Q40 system fully functional that I could let go at at bargain price : I have a Q60 system now. If you are interested contact me off list. Duncan Neithercut -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of s m gadd Sent: 18 March 2004 22:43 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ql-users] Beginning a succesful QL journey Hi all.. Have been lurking here for a while, reading the various threads, along with looking at different websites, faqs etc. As a beginner, the QL world seemed very complicated, with strangely named Trump Cards, Gold Cards, and hundred of programs, expansions and websites uncomfortably squeezing their names around the letters Q and L. Anyway, things are a little more clear now and i'm keen to give the machine itself a try. What are your opinions on beginning this venture, for someone on quite a tight budget but with enthusiasm for computer meddling and unusual hardware. Just how much use would a standard QL be (there seem to be quite a few on EBay at any one time)? It seems to me that a floppy disk interface of some description is a necessity to connect the QL to the outside world (i.e. for downloading files from the net and transferring them across). But oh, what about the disk format? Didn't think about that. Is a Qubbide hard drive interface another must have? More expense but then what's the point in getting involved with the QL if i'm trying to use hardware unrepresentative of the majority of current users. But then things start to become quite expensive and I risk spending a lot (for me) of money on something which i'll get little use our of. Anyway, not sure if that made much sense, just some musings and interested to hear your views. Many thanks, Stephen
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 at 18:49:44, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:54, Tony Firshman wrote: Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. I thought you were more wolf like (8-)# -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
I used one at uni ( Reading 1977-80) - We had a network of sorts An ICL mainframe over at one side of the campus in the Computer Science Block , and a Modular One (or some similar name) over the other side in the Cybernetics Dept - with a nature reserve and a lake between them. So, the connection was via phone line and 300 baud accoustic coupler - The telephone handset was placed into a foam padded box which contained speaker and microphone and was connected to the computer - it worked very well, and was not at all sensitive to noise. This made us cyberneticists feel very superior. While the computer science people had to submit their jobs on punched cards, we could use the teletypes and even tectronix green graphics terminals in our dept and use the M1 as a front-end computer to work interactively on the ICL mainframe. Back then home computing was a bit pricy. A Commodore Pet with a black and white display capable of 40X20 graphics, and 4K Ram cost several thousand pounds. The along came Uncle Clive, and the rest is history (more or less back on track). Jeremy Taffel - Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt) Mind you the 300bps acoustic coupler modem is a bit limiting (8-)# It was Z88 like, but with a great keyboard, but poor screen. Acoustic coupler? Is that a modem that plays the sound through the telephone handset rather than plug into the phone line? I remember reading about that kind of thing many, many years ago, but never used one and didn't really believe they would work anyway...surely a TV on in the background or something would make it not work? (Back to my flat earth books...) -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] GPL or not GPL, that is the question
In a message dated 19/03/2004 19:41:39 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I see it the current licence is only a security for TT: if an unknown organisation did make money with SMSQ/E, there would be an argument to get something for him. IMHO he deserves it. Please Peter, is there a way to achieve the same result with this GPL stuff???OTH apparently Linus does make a lot on money with his free stuff, so maybe I am wrong here?2) If Peter does his developments under GPL, then there is no way to prevent someone else to use them further. So his work is obliged to be made available. Or this subject becomes even darker to me. Agreed, but the problem is that if someone converted Peter's work to run under SMSQ/e and it does involve changes to the operating system. Why? Because the GPL says that any future changes must also be released under the GPL licence terms (or so I understand). --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In a message dated 19/03/2004 16:57:40 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This was Rich with bad attribute--^ Maybe... Or maybe I am just echoing the feelings of other traders and QL users who long ago abandoned the scene (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])Agreed - the QL traders continue to support the QL mainly from a lovefor the system and the people involved. The more disputes that ariseand the less people that buy any software, the less the incentive forus to carry on with the QL (most QL traders already make an annualloss).Who? I think none do now, if you account for time.Working for myself means time is money. Any time I spend on QL workmeans I earn less money.I make no profit even if I ignore my time, but I am a hardware man (8-(#What _is_ the problem of money? It seems no problem if it goes out, butonly if it comes in. Money is only a token for favours.Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferably only sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need a new freezer... --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] GPL or not GPL, that is the question
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, but the problem is that if someone converted Peter's work to run under SMSQ/e and it does involve changes to the operating system. Why? Because the GPL says that any future changes must also be released under the GPL licence terms (or so I understand). Which touches on the biggest problem for the GPL and SMSQ/E. Under the current arrangement there is a single publisher, who can enforce some modicum of quality assurance and consistency/compatibility. Under a GPL license, anyone can be a publisher and there is no way to force compatibility for different versions, or prevent code forks that would ultimately be disruptive in an already small community. I was pro-GPL earlier, but now I see the license in operation, I can see what it is trying to protect. Dave
Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: [ql-users] Re: [q l-users] Re: £ 0...
In a message dated 19/03/2004 18:33:26 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writesSNIPThe whole situation is a mess and it is only the users who are losing out.No, that is not the case. The users have gained by having a stable system that is being developed in a coherent manner. Peter could be part if that if he chooses and he could become a reseller - he had the offer - and then sell it at cost so making it, if effect, free. Here here - by saying that the whole situation is a mess, I meant the arguing over the licence, not the way in which SMSQ/e is being developed, which seems as good a method as any to me. We could have a proper debate on the licence for SMSQ/e and a poll to see whether TT should be approached to release it under GPL, but: 1) Would the users be bothered to reply or would they even understand? 2) Would it have any effect on TT?? 3) Has anyone other than Peter ever offered to make any other updates ONLY once SMSQ/e is under the GPL licence? If Peter is unwilling to allow the majority of QL users have access to hiscode, then so be it - we will just have to accept that situation and moveon. Most people seem perfectly happy with SMSQ/e and how it is nowand the way in which changes are managed and released.This is, in fact, what most of them have told me. Fair enough - that is what I understood too Most peopleare ignorant of why Peter and others want SMSQ/e to be under GPL andalso what changes this would actually bring. To tell the truth, I would betmost people simply do not care, so long as SMSQ/e continues to bedeveloped and released for the good of the QL community.Enough of the bickering.I agree. I just wanted to point out that, after months of peace on the subject Peter pops up and dangles a mythical carrot and starts everyone off again. Well, it never was a subject that was going to die away... Look how long it took for the arguments between Windows and MAC OS to die down (despite most MAC users using a Windows emulator well before they decided to adopt Windows altogether)... If a programmer wants to release his hard work for only a small percentageof the QL community, then so be it. It's just a shame that very few peoplewill ever see the benefits of his work.True. And no reason at all why he should not give it away free as a module which can be bolted on to SMSQ/E. Did I say no reason? Yes, no reason --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] GPL or not GPL, that is the question
In a message dated 19/03/2004 23:16:57 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed, but the problem is that if someone converted Peter's work to run under SMSQ/e and it does involve changes to the operating system. Why? Because the GPL says that any future changes must also be released under the GPL licence terms (or so I understand).Which touches on the biggest problem for the GPL and SMSQ/E. Under thecurrent arrangement there is a single publisher, who can enforce somemodicum of quality assurance and consistency/compatibility. Under a GPLlicense, anyone can be a publisher and there is no way to forcecompatibility for different versions, or prevent code forks that wouldultimately be disruptive in an already small community.I was pro-GPL earlier, but now I see the license in operation, I can seewhat it is trying to protect. Here here I wonder what the pro-GPL camp's reaction would be if the licence had been implemented earlier (before the colour drivers release) and someone had said that they would only develop a QPC or Aurora version of the colour drivers and save themselves the hard work to implement it on the Q40/Q60 (plus the cost of having that hardware too) --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:47, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine). I understand the point of commitment by paying for the software. My viewpoint is that I like Freeware so much, that I would feel like a hipocite if any of the software/documetation/whatever I produced for the QL was sold. I produce what I do because I want to and make it available because I feel commited to community contribution. I feel commited when I contribute to the QL community. I'm not trying to nullify our viewpoing Wolfgang, just showing that some of us have differing viewpoints. Tim Swenson
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:47, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine). I understand the point of commitment by paying for the software. My viewpoint is that I like Freeware so much, that I would feel like a hipocite if any of the software/documetation/whatever I produced for the QL was sold. I produce what I do because I want to and make it available because I feel commited to community contribution. I feel commited when I contribute to the QL community. I'm not trying to nullify our viewpoing Wolfgang, just showing that some of us have differing viewpoints. Tim Swenson
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 21:41, Tony Firshman wrote: No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. I thought you were more wolf like (8-)# but in sheeps' clothes, of course... Wolfgang QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
[ql-users] Re: Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-u sers] Re: £ 0.00 to sp end! (1st attem. ..
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 at 06:59:20, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On 17 Mar 2004 at 16:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do however wonder what version DD supplies with their machines?? If they are not supplying the latest version, then they would seem to be selling their purchases short. Of course, I can't reply in DD's place. I often wonder why they don't use this list. At the very least it seems a missed marketing opportunity. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-u sers] Re: £ 0.00 to sp end! (1st attem. ..
I do announce new versions here. You can also check the latest version at www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com/smsqe Wolfgang I've added this address to the QL Net page on my website, so anyone wanting to check Wolfgang's work and mislaid this email, just go via the net links page on my website. Space permitting, I might put a little summary of recent changes and version numbers into QL Toady soon. -- Dilwyn Jones
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
Just wondering if making a new Q60 SMSQ/E would be a matter of bolting on Q60 specific modules to standard SMSQ/E releases? There already are Q60 specific modules. That's what I meant. Not having a Q60 here I didn't know if SMSQ/E for Q60 was same SMSQ/E version as QXL, QPC, Gold Card etc etc I sometimes wonder how often one has to repeat oneself onthis list to be - if not understood- at least heard. Same things go round and round in circles too often, I skim through what I think is not of interest to me and of course miss the 1% of some long emails (not referring to anyone in particular) that is of interest to me! The software Peter is producing seems too important (...) Not if it isn't made available. Hmm, yes. Pity. -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] problem with the new C68 pieces for WMAN
In a message dated 14/03/04 11:39:37 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After compiling, I am getting an undefined symbol 'RELOC_START'. Looking at my original LIBC_A file, I see it in there but I don't see it in the new version with George's updates. Any ideas? I'm sorry if something I have done with LIBC_A has made RELOC_START disappear. Just to check I went back over every version of LIBC_A I have from 1999 onwards. There is no sign of RELOC_START in any of them. I wonder where that came from? George
Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
On 18 Mar 2004 at 9:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might try driving without tyres. But would that be driving? Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-u sers] Re: £ 0.00 to sp end! (1st attem. ..
On 18 Mar 2004 at 14:00, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Space permitting, I might put a little summary of recent changes and version numbers into QL Toady soon. Want me to wend you a text file with the changes? Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] (1st attempt)
On 18 Mar 2004 at 13:48, Dilwyn Jones wrote: (...) That's what I meant. Not having a Q60 here I didn't know if SMSQ/E for Q60 was same SMSQ/E version as QXL, QPC, Gold Card etc etc Yes. Of course. That's the whole purpose, innit? Wolfgang
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!) Does this fall into the parameters of what you were looking for Geoff - the possibility of paying someone to extend the SDUMP system. Of course, a small(ish) job, but one that could be incoporated into a lot of programs. Perhaps we should start thinking of what sort of routines we would like if someone were to write a new DIY toolkit. Another possibility would be to pay someone to update EasyPtr. This gives me yet another idea. What about Quanta trying to obtain the rights of some old software that is still extensively used? The two that spring to mind are QLiberator and Text87. Anyone with suggestions for other programs? People often complain that QLiberator is not being updated. Just think if Quanta could buy the rights and then find someone to do what George Gwilt has managed with Turbo. Text87 is even more interesting. There is still the incompatibilty with the Q60. Also no one seems to know anything about Text87 file formatting. If we did, the RTF/HTM filters could become quite sophisticated. Spell checking could be inproved and, dare I say it, Just Words! writing tools incorporated. Would it be possible to make the program more user friendly and put it in a nice PE jacket? Another suggestion: Peter Graf does not want paying for his software, but does he have any development expenses towards which Quanta could contribute? We cannot expect 6 members of the Quanta committee to come up with ideas, if 300 members and many more non-members cannot! Geoff
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-u sers] Re: £ 0.00 to sp end! (1st attem. ..
On 18 Mar 2004 at 14:00, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Space permitting, I might put a little summary of recent changes and version numbers into QL Toady soon. Want me to wend you a text file with the changes? Wolfgang I've taken what's on your website, unless you have more? -- Dilwyn Jones
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
Does this fall into the parameters of what you were looking for Geoff - the possibility of paying someone to extend the SDUMP system. Of course, a small(ish) job, but one that could be incoporated into a lot of programs. Perhaps we should start thinking of what sort of routines we would like if someone were to write a new DIY toolkit. Umm, I don't think sdump_rext itself could (or should) be incorporated into software, for one thing programs would always be stuck with the version built in even if copyright etc allowed it. But if an enhanced version were available, whether freely or sold as an upgrade file, I'm sure many authors like myself would venture more into producing graphics programs if the screen dumps were there rather than having to write our own - screen dump writing effort could then be concentrated into specialist efforts such as minority printers, one could only expect sdump to support HP and Canon printers over and above the existing selection I'd have thought. Another possibility would be to pay someone to update EasyPtr. I doubt this, there's already been correspondence on this and I think the view might be that it would be too difficult for anyone other than the original author to update, plus TurboPTR is both available, up to date and supported and now has a degree of possibility of conversionof Easyptr files. This gives me yet another idea. What about Quanta trying to obtain the rights of some old software that is still extensively used? The two that spring to mind are QLiberator and Text87. Anyone with suggestions for other programs? People often complain that QLiberator is not being updated. Just think if Quanta could buy the rights and then find someone to do what George Gwilt has managed with Turbo. Text87 is even more interesting. There is still the incompatibilty with the Q60. Also no one seems to know anything about Text87 file formatting. If we did, the RTF/HTM filters could become quite sophisticated. Spell checking could be inproved and, dare I say it, Just Words! writing tools incorporated. Would it be possible to make the program more user friendly and put it in a nice PE jacket? I think if QLiberator and Text87 were achievable, I suspect Roy Wood and/or Jochen Merz would have secured them by now. We cannot expect 6 members of the Quanta committee to come up with ideas, if 300 members and many more non-members cannot! Exactly! There are plenty of lurkers on this list too, so let's see what we can come up with, would be great to hear from members on this list who don't write that often! -- Dilwyn Jones
[ql-users] Fancy testing the New Mailing list address ?
I am in the process of making changes to a more robust mailing list solution for ql-users and would like a few volunteers to test the new system. If you have the time and bandwidth to receive 'two messages for one' please contact me at the address below. - Bruce mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ql-users] Please ignore
Please ignore this test message.
[ql-users] Beginning a succesful QL journey
Hi all.. Have been lurking here for a while, reading the various threads, along with looking at different websites, faqs etc. As a beginner, the QL world seemed very complicated, with strangely named Trump Cards, Gold Cards, and hundred of programs, expansions and websites uncomfortably squeezing their names around the letters Q and L. Anyway, things are a little more clear now and i'm keen to give the machine itself a try. What are your opinions on beginning this venture, for someone on quite a tight budget but with enthusiasm for computer meddling and unusual hardware. Just how much use would a standard QL be (there seem to be quite a few on EBay at any one time)? It seems to me that a floppy disk interface of some description is a necessity to connect the QL to the outside world (i.e. for downloading files from the net and transferring them across). But oh, what about the disk format? Didn't think about that. Is a Qubbide hard drive interface another must have? More expense but then what's the point in getting involved with the QL if i'm trying to use hardware unrepresentative of the majority of current users. But then things start to become quite expensive and I risk spending a lot (for me) of money on something which i'll get little use our of. Anyway, not sure if that made much sense, just some musings and interested to hear your views. Many thanks, Stephen
Re: [ql-users] problem with the new C68 pieces for WMAN
This weekend I will try rebuilding everything from scratch (with the suitable backup since I can't afford the downtime :) ). I am thinking that the RELOC stuff might have snuck in during one of the interim 'patches' to the library and might not be needed. Will post my success after I do the rebuild. Cheers, jim ~~ Jim Hunkins JDH Software Technologies ~~ On Mar 18, 2004, at 6:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 15/03/04 07:56:22 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By way of a test, I hid the old libc_a and still it all worked. When I ran 'slb -t ram1_lis libc_a', I could find no evidence of your missing name. Christopher Cave I looked for RELOC (in case it was STRT not START or some other variant) by using qmon with f 'reloc' address where I had loaded the various versions of LIBC_A I was looking at There were two RELOCs but not remotely like RELOC_START. RELOC_START sounds like something a linker needs to do with all C68 programs, since they all have absolute addresses between modules, not PC relative ones. George
[ql-users] Re: Re: Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 at 18:31:04, wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Personally, the lack of Internet access for the QL/Q40 is not an issue for me. I have a PC for most of my Internet use (dial up) and use the system at work for larger downloads (T-1). I look at the QL as a nice hobbiest computer. I find it fun to use and to work on. I find learning more about the QL interesting and useful towards learning other computers. The QL can't compete with a full blown PC for capabilites, but it really should not. How many other computers can you still use today that you've been using for almost 20 years. Tandy 100 - which is over 20 years old. Mind you the 300bps acoustic coupler modem is a bit limiting (8-)# It was Z88 like, but with a great keyboard, but poor screen. Fabulous machine in its day, when 300bps was state of the art. I used it to access my QL BBS remotely. Sadly this is no longer possible as my modem won't get slower than 9600. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
[ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
Bill Cable wrote: I would also be willing to chip in some $$ also and it could possibly work in one of 2 ways. Either buy the rights to put SMSQ/E under the GPL or pay Peter to release his work under GPL for QDOS Classic or Minerva. This looks like a fundamental misunderstanding. I do not want any money for my work. All the best Peter
Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This looks like a fundamental misunderstanding. I do not want any money for my work. A person who does not want money must want something more valuable. ;) Dave
Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
On 17 Mar 2004 at 9:37, Dave P wrote: A person who does not want money must want something more valuable. ;) Value, like beauty, lies in the eyes of the beholder... Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
Rich Mellor wrote: In a message dated 17/03/2004 15:17:06 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill Cable wrote: I would also be willing to chip in some $$ also and it could possibly work in one of 2 ways. Either buy the rights to put SMSQ/E under the GPL or pay Peter to release his work under GPL for QDOS Classic or Minerva. This looks like a fundamental misunderstanding. I do not want any money for my work. All the best Peter Fair enough, but we would like to see your work released to the wider QL community, not limited to QDOS Classic, which is only used by a minute proportion of QL users. Re that, I answered your previous posting. But it didn't seem to have been redistributed by the listserver. Maybe just a matter of days. Peter
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
Mind you the 300bps acoustic coupler modem is a bit limiting (8-)# It was Z88 like, but with a great keyboard, but poor screen. Acoustic coupler? Is that a modem that plays the sound through the telephone handset rather than plug into the phone line? I remember reading about that kind of thing many, many years ago, but never used one and didn't really believe they would work anyway...surely a TV on in the background or something would make it not work? (Back to my flat earth books...) -- Dilwyn Jones
[ql-users] Blobs
Aftera recent comment on this list, I again tried (and failed) to get blobs and patterns to work in Easyptr programs. Anyone had any success and able to hint at where I might be going wrong? Files seem to get saved OK (I seem to be able to produce blobs and patterns) but things go wrong when I try to use them in SBASIC, either nothing happens or weird error messages. (Using Easyptr part 2 v3.50 on QPC2 v3.12) -- Dilwyn Jones
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
I would also be willing to chip in some $$ also and it could possibly work in one of 2 ways. Either buy the rights to put SMSQ/E under the GPL or pay Peter to release his work under GPL for QDOS Classic or Minerva. This looks like a fundamental misunderstanding. I do not want any money for my work. All the best Peter How much of SMSQ/E for Qx0 is modular and how much inbuilt (i.e. has to be rewritten every time a new SMSQ/E is released)? Just wondering if making a new Q60 SMSQ/E would be a matter of bolting on Q60 specific modules to standard SMSQ/E releases? Alternatively, instead of forcing money he doesn't want onto Peter Graf, an alternative approach might be to buy into Q60 SMSQ/E maintenance, i.e. whoever is building and releasing the new SMSQ/E gets paid to produce a Q60 version. That way, SMSQ/E for Qx0 remains up to date and someone gets paid to produce the new releases alongside the other versions. Just a thought in passing to prevent all this rubbing salt into old wounds and these matters going round and round in circles all the time. The software Peter is producing seems too important to allow the endless argument to get in the way. -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
This looks like a fundamental misunderstanding. I do not want any money for my work. All the best Peter Sorry about that. I am always hoping for that elusive web capability for the QL one way or another. I have several computer related projects at home but none could possibly be done on the QL except web browsing and email. Maybe not exotic uses but definitely important daily tasks that I would love to do on the QL. Fundamentally they are not highly demanding and a fast QL system should be able to handle it in an acceptable if not pleasant way. A system that boots up in seconds and is immune to viruses has a chance to at least bring old QLers back into the fold. We can always use our PCs ( MACs) for internet stuff that requires capabilities not available on the QL but lots of day to day internet stuff should be within the QL's power. It is kind of sad that the large pond has evaporated so much that this little ridge has appeared and we now have 2 very little puddles that no longer mix. We need to find a way to dig a channel so at least we could be a little bit bigger single puddle. -- Bill
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
This means that Quanta would have a sum of about £1,000 each year to spend on QL development. How should they spend this money? In fact Quanta would have two possible ways of financially stimulating QL development. Major projects (SGC successor?) could be financed out of the capital. These would have to be backed with good business plans and legal safeguards to ensure that there was a return on the capital and that Quanta does not lose its favourable tax status. Minor projects (mainly software?) could be financed out of subscription income. No financial return would be expected from these and thus there would be fewer legal difficulties over tax etc. Remember your subscription is your money, not Quanta's. How would you like them to spend it on your behalf? After a brief exchange of correspondence with Per Witte about programs we've both been writing recently, I came to the conclusion that one possible expenditure might be to bring SDUMP up to date, to provide us with screen dumps for more printers (i.e. HP printers and possibly Canon control code sets) and also to cope with GD2 modes. If this was done, it would provide a rudimentary basis for writing graphical applications without having to write printer dumps from scratch or learning to program for Proforma/Prowess. I have a (roughly) one third written graphics program I'd meant originally to include as a basic paint program with Launchpad but it was too much work and would have delayed Launchpad quite a bit, so it's sat on my hard disk waiting for me to pluck up the courage to tackle adding GD2 screen dumps! (fat chance at the moment) Sdump is available as an Sdump_rext file which can be loaded resident on emulators etc and provides the necessary basic and assembler interfaces, so people like myself who write mostly in compiled basic could easily use it, and the assembler entries could probably be easily made available to C programmers too. Does this fall into the parameters of what you were looking for Geoff - the possibility of paying someone to extend the SDUMP system. -- Dilwyn Jones
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
- Original Message - From: Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] You have said that Quanta is heading towards a £1000 a year structural profit. I am also interested in how much Quanta has in realisable assets. The reason I ask, is that as has been pointed out, the pond is now a puddle and rapidly drying out. What good are those assets while they aren't being used to good effect? I suggest that Quanta decides to work on the basis that it is going to die in N years anyway, and plans to liquidate its assets by investment in good projects over that time. This could breathe new life into both the QL, and into Quanta, and actually ensure that it keeps going for longer than if it just keeps its assets in the bank. I for one would rejoin if I thought they would actually do something useful with my subscriptions. £1000 would actually only pay for one week's work for a programmer in my industry. I agree with most of what you are saying, but there are still good grounds for keeping the capital reasonably intact. The capital is currently £16,000, which on your figures is only 16 week's work. You won't get any decent hardware or software from just 16 week's work. That means finding projects that will bring some returns, no easy task. At the moment Quanta is failing its members and the QL community and has to find a better way of using both its income and capital than it is doing now. If it cannot do this within the next 12 months then a motion at the 2005 AGM to wind up Quanta would be the best solution. Geoff
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Alternatively, instead of forcing money he doesn't want onto Peter Graf, an alternative approach might be to buy into Q60 SMSQ/E maintenance, i.e. whoever is building and releasing the new SMSQ/E gets paid to produce a Q60 version. That way, SMSQ/E for Qx0 remains up to date and someone gets paid to produce the new releases alongside the other versions. It is up to date. Wolfgang releases new versions for the Q40 which I test on the Q40 here and distribute for the cost of postage and copying to anyone who wants one. In fact the current version, 3.05 seems to be the best one yet. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex. Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk
Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to sp end! (1st attem...
In a message dated 17/03/2004 20:40:47 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writesSNIPAlternatively, instead of forcing money he doesn't want onto PeterGraf, an alternative approach might be to buy into Q60 SMSQ/Emaintenance, i.e. whoever is building and releasing the new SMSQ/Egets paid to produce a Q60 version. That way, SMSQ/E for Qx0 remainsup to date and someone gets paid to produce the new releases alongsidethe other versions.It is up to date. Wolfgang releases new versions for the Q40 which I test on the Q40 here and distribute for the cost of postage and copying to anyone who wants one. In fact the current version, 3.05 seems to be the best one yet. Yes, that is the case as I understand it. I do however wonder what version DD supplies with their machines?? If they are not supplying the latest version, then they would seem to be selling their purchases short. Perhaps something that is missing from QL Today / Qaunta isa list each month (only needs a small amount of space) of the current versions of each operating system and where they can be obtained / updated. Ie. === SMSQ/e v3.05 for Gold Card / Super Gold Card / QPC2 / Q40 / Q60 - upgrades from QBranch, Jochen Merz, DD (?)and Phoebus Dokos. QDOS Classic v?.?? - upgrades from DD and Phoebus Dokos ?? (presumably also the internet) Minerva v1.97 (if memory serves me right) - ROM upgrades only available from Tony Firshman. (is there upgrades available for use with the emulators now rather than using the puclis domain version - I forget the version number off the top of my head). QDOS JS or MGx - ROM upgrades available from ??? RWAP Services can always pull a few ROMs. CanTony still supply the ROM upgrades?? === Not really acting as an advert for anyone - just a reminder of where to get the latest version so that people are not complaining about bugs which were fixed months if not years ago !! --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Blobs
In a message dated 17/03/2004 18:31:38 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aftera recent comment on this list, I again tried (and failed) to getblobs and patterns to work in Easyptr programs.Anyone had any success and able to hint at where I might be goingwrong? Files seem to get saved OK (I seem to be able to produce blobsand patterns) but things go wrong when I try to use them in SBASIC,either nothing happens or weird error messages.(Using Easyptr part 2 v3.50 on QPC2 v3.12) Hmm - any chance of some sample code?? --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Hyperbrowser
In a message dated 16/03/2004 18:54:50 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I had looked at your browser efforts briefly as I was looking for a Help solution for QDT (haven't found one yet) and am still interested. Still would be interested in using it with some added capabilities (pointer, simple graphics, perhaps a few other things). Unfortunately no money but it would get distributed. Of course it would also be, after the update, be available for everyone to use.I am planning on putting together, if I go this way, an Help sub-architecture that anyone could tap into to add help that can be called from QDT. Got a ways to go before I get there but am constantly looking for things. This would be an excellent project - I daresay I could volunteer to help (as health permits), though my C programming skills need some brushing up Q-Help is of course similar to some extent and possibly could be a starting point... If interested, please contact me off list : email links on my website - www.jdh-stech.com.Also, if anyone would like to help with this if Tarquin is up to this or wants to work on a hyperlink type capability for something else, also please contact me. --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 at 18:21:03, Dilwyn Jones wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Mind you the 300bps acoustic coupler modem is a bit limiting (8-)# It was Z88 like, but with a great keyboard, but poor screen. Acoustic coupler? Is that a modem that plays the sound through the telephone handset rather than plug into the phone line? I remember reading about that kind of thing many, many years ago, but never used one and didn't really believe they would work anyway...surely a TV on in the background or something would make it not work? They fitted very tightly over the phone and worked very well. The phones had to be old style - but they all ere then! This was the standard way for the old teletype links (IBM call 360 and the like). There were no modems as such in the 70s. You had to dial manually, listen for the tones, and fit the coupler. ... and the 'monitor' was a wide carriage IBM golfball printer. Those were the days (8-)# -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
On 17 Mar 2004 at 18:28, Dilwyn Jones wrote: How much of SMSQ/E for Qx0 is modular and how much inbuilt (i.e. has to be rewritten every time a new SMSQ/E is released)? Nothing has to be rewrittenfor the Q60 (or any other machine) every time a new SMSQ/E is released, unless some changes are required by the files that were changed (e.g. different screen handling for colour drivers). Just wondering if making a new Q60 SMSQ/E would be a matter of bolting on Q60 specific modules to standard SMSQ/E releases? There already are Q60 specific modules. (...) i.e. whoever is building and releasing the new SMSQ/E gets paid to produce a Q60 version. That way, SMSQ/E for Qx0 remains up to date and someone gets paid to produce the new releases alongside the other versions. I'm building and releasing the new SMSQ/E (for QPC, Q60 and others) I certainly don't want to get paid. I put the building into quotation marks, because this is mainly just a matter of incorporating the source files graciously donated by those wishing to contribute to SMSQ/E. Building the executables then is just a matter of pressing some buttons. Q60 SMSQ/E is up to date. I sometimes wonder how often one has to repeat oneself onthis list to be - if not understood- at least heard. The whole purpose of the registrar is to make sure that versions for all machines remain as up to date as is possible. Two examples: a - the colour drivers. (need I say more?) B - Specific Q60 development: Fabrizio Diversi made specific versions of some of the source files for the Q60. These used a machine code instruction the Q60 had difficulty in handling - Fabrizio changed them by removing these instructions and replacing them with analoguous code and the new files are now part of the official Q60 SMSQ/E code tree. All this is, of course, transparent to the user, as it should be. (...) The software Peter is producing seems too important (...) Not if it isn't made available. Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: Re: Re: [q l-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
On 17 Mar 2004 at 23:37, Tony Firshman wrote: (...) You had to dial manually, listen for the tones, and fit the coupler. ... and the 'monitor' was a wide carriage IBM golfball printer. Those were the days (8-)# May they never come back! Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
I haven't answered on this thread until now mainly because (in the first attempt...) I wasn't sure whether that kind of money would conceivably around in this matter. Now that Geoff has given more details, here's my 2 cents' worth. I don't know whether offering something like 1000 pounds for software would be a good idea. The reason is that it is, in my mind, too much and too little. Let me explain. It is too little. If you want to finance a software author, 1000 pounds will get you - what? A month' worth of work? Look at what Peter has told us on this list - if he were offered 2000 pounds for his ongoing work, he wouldn't accept it, because it would be far from what the software would be worth... This is a point of view I can share. So, thibking that a professoinal would do some real work for this amount of money is, IMHO, just too optimistic. So, if it were to finance some software author, it would be -either for a professional who actually is doing this on his spare time, as a hobby and then gets some benefit from it (but then, whhy 1000, and not 500, or 2000 etc...) - or for some kind of hobby programmer (such as myself). And then, it would be too much. Why should you pay 1000 pounds for some kind of amateur programmer? That wold probably leave some kind of hardware project. But, remember - all hardware projects also require some kind of software (driver etc) to go with it. So, instead of asking what kind of projetcs **might** be financed by that amound, I'd like to modify the question and ask: What would YOU be prepared to do for 1000 pounds? Answers, anyone? Wolfgang
[ql-users] Hyperbrowser
Hi Tarquin, I had looked at your browser efforts briefly as I was looking for a Help solution for QDT (haven't found one yet) and am still interested. Still would be interested in using it with some added capabilities (pointer, simple graphics, perhaps a few other things). Unfortunately no money but it would get distributed. Of course it would also be, after the update, be available for everyone to use. I am planning on putting together, if I go this way, an Help sub-architecture that anyone could tap into to add help that can be called from QDT. Got a ways to go before I get there but am constantly looking for things. If interested, please contact me off list : email links on my website - www.jdh-stech.com. Also, if anyone would like to help with this if Tarquin is up to this or wants to work on a hyperlink type capability for something else, also please contact me. Cheers, jim ~~ Jim Hunkins JDH Software Technologies ~~ In a message dated 15/03/2004 17:59:49 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Four years a go I became a QLer and started writing a web browser on a emulator (QLay), but the PC I did this on no longer exists and the emulated environment limited development. So I decide to buy a QL system to continue development on, over £1000 later (cost mounting) and still no working system. This is why HyperBrowser development stalled, I even tried cross-development on M$ Windoze and Debian Linux. A refund plus damages, or small claims court action are looming. This all could have been avoid, but the ball has not been in my half of the court, so I could do nothing. Tarquin, Everything aside, what would it take for you to finish the HyperBrowser ?? I am sure there are plenty of people who would be interested in this enough to assist you if you still want to progress the project -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JH TEL: 01977 610509 Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk Stuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at: URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
- Original Message - From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!) SNIP I don't know whether offering something like 1000 pounds for software would be a good idea. The reason is that it is, in my mind, too much and too little. Let me explain. It is too little. If you want to finance a software author, 1000 pounds will get you - what? A month' worth of work? Look at what Peter has told us on this list - if he were offered 2000 pounds for his ongoing work, he wouldn't accept it, because it would be far from what the software would be worth... This is a point of view I can share. So, thibking that a professoinal would do some real work for this amount of money is, IMHO, just too optimistic. SNIP Thanks for this contribution. I can agree with most of what you write. Obviously £1,000 is peanuts for a professional programmer's time. All we would be doing if we paid for software is giving the author a generous present as a token of gratitude. Nevertheless, there is a long history of people in the QL community doing a lot of work for little reward. Look at the traders who are prepared to make a yearly loss because of their belief in the QL. With Just Words! I do this quite coldly and calculatingly. There is a level I am prepared to go to and no further. (Hence the anger of last year.) The result is that for the first time in years I am now in control of the deficit, Just Words! remains in existence and if nothing else QL Today gets a bit of advertising money. (But not yet Quanta - they have yet to prove their reliability - famous last words - Just Words! will be financing the QL2004 advertising in the Quanta Magazine - however you will get the principle.) All I am asking is whether a little money would provide a little oil to a machine that is slowly rusting to a standstill. (There is, I believe, the precedence of the colour drivers.) The question you ask, What would you do for £1,000? should be considered by everyone. Thanks to everyone for their contributions. They are all being carefully noted, although unfortunately I have not yet seen much that I can recommend to Quanta. (Some good ideas would fail for legal and practical reasons.) I am very concerned about the future of Quanta. Most of its money is spent on workshops, which I suspect are becoming more and more burnt out, or the magazine whose problems are obvious. The one thing Quanta has is financial stability. How can we use that for the benefit of its members and the QL community? Geoff
Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
Tarquin Mills wrote: [snipped] A refund plus damages, or small claims court action are looming. Peter Graf wants me to point out D D Systems would be liable not him. This all could have been avoid, but the ball has not been in my half of the court, so I could do nothing. -- Tarquin Mills Norwich Sinclair and Clones Show (ORSAM 2004) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/orsam/ http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Sinclair/petition.html (Bring Back YS)
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:22:18 +0100, Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't answered on this thread until now mainly because (in the first attempt...) I wasn't sure whether that kind of money would conceivably around in this matter. Now that Geoff has given more details, here's my 2 cents' worth. I don't know whether offering something like 1000 pounds for software would be a good idea. The reason is that it is, in my mind, too much and too little. Let me explain. It is too little. If you want to finance a software author, 1000 pounds will get you - what? A month' worth of work? Look at what Peter has told us on this list - if he were offered 2000 pounds for his ongoing work, he wouldn't accept it, because it would be far from what the software would be worth... This is a point of view I can share. snip Regarding what Peter said (and to what Timothy and Bill added) I tend to believe that it is a reasonable idea to offer Tony a sum in the area of 1.000-2.000 (After all how many SMSQ/e's will be sold in the coming years?) with the provision that SMSQ/e could be placed under the GPL or some modified version of the GPL license (GPL would be ideal for reasons explained previously in length) as long as it is completely open and beyond any control. The modified GPL license would not prohibit payment of royalties when a dealer sells a copy of SMSQ/e (as it is now) as for Marcel and QPC, I believe they will still be covered under the previous pre-existent agreement (I believe Marcel has mentioned something like that or I could be wrong as usual ;-) . In any case that would keep everybody happy and we could see QlwIP as part of the OS and even more developments further ahead. In a solution like that, Tony retains his copyright, still gets royalties (plus he gets a lump sum in anticipation of future royalties that may -or may not- happen). He has opened SMSQ/e (after a fashion) already anyway and from what I understand he even considered to open it completely (again I may be wrong), so what's the harm? Phoebus (back from Florida... btw for anyone coming get a swimsuit ;-) -- Visit the QL-FAQ at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/faq/ (Still uploading stuff!) Visit the uQLX-win32 homepage at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlx.html Visit the uQLX-mac home page at:http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlxmac.html
Re: [ql-users] Hyperbrowser
Rich Mellor wrote: Everything aside, what would it take for you to finish the HyperBrowser ?? While people are surfing, a Internet (not web) Browser con never be finished. Also when you think of the size of Mozilla it cannot be finished. However HB can certainly be improved significantly. I am sure there are plenty of people who would be interested in this enough to assist you if you still want to progress the project Any help would be gratefully excepted, and speed things up. I need to port the C version, then other people can write character set files (no programming knowledge needed). The configuration files can also be improved calls to graphic and other viewers. The fetcher needs to be ported, it uses BSD sockets or replace by a plug compatible fetcher. Jonathan Dent my a copy of his TCP/IP stack, but I cannot access the email with it attached. So a new of copy SoQL being sent to me would be helpful. This is just simple stuff to get us started, the real question is what is need in what priority. I am guess inline graphics will make the most woah factor, to draw in punters. Make HB a GUI program is another thing that needs doing, it may make inline graphics easier and stop work being done twice. Fonts, gopher+, etc Testing, Bug fixs, snippets of code. -- Tarquin Mills Norwich Sinclair and Clones Show (ORSAM 2004) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/orsam/ http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Sinclair/petition.html (Bring Back YS)
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
Geoff, You have said that Quanta is heading towards a £1000 a year structural profit. I am also interested in how much Quanta has in realisable assets. The reason I ask, is that as has been pointed out, the pond is now a puddle and rapidly drying out. What good are those assets while they aren't being used to good effect? I suggest that Quanta decides to work on the basis that it is going to die in N years anyway, and plans to liquidate its assets by investment in good projects over that time. This could breathe new life into both the QL, and into Quanta, and actually ensure that it keeps going for longer than if it just keeps its assets in the bank. I for one would rejoin if I thought they would actually do something useful with my subscriptions. £1000 would actually only pay for one week's work for a programmer in my industry. Jeremy - Original Message - From: gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!) - Original Message - From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!) SNIP I don't know whether offering something like 1000 pounds for software would be a good idea. The reason is that it is, in my mind, too much and too little. Let me explain. It is too little. If you want to finance a software author, 1000 pounds will get you - what? A month' worth of work? Look at what Peter has told us on this list - if he were offered 2000 pounds for his ongoing work, he wouldn't accept it, because it would be far from what the software would be worth... This is a point of view I can share. So, thibking that a professoinal would do some real work for this amount of money is, IMHO, just too optimistic. SNIP Thanks for this contribution. I can agree with most of what you write. Obviously £1,000 is peanuts for a professional programmer's time. All we would be doing if we paid for software is giving the author a generous present as a token of gratitude. Nevertheless, there is a long history of people in the QL community doing a lot of work for little reward. Look at the traders who are prepared to make a yearly loss because of their belief in the QL. With Just Words! I do this quite coldly and calculatingly. There is a level I am prepared to go to and no further. (Hence the anger of last year.) The result is that for the first time in years I am now in control of the deficit, Just Words! remains in existence and if nothing else QL Today gets a bit of advertising money. (But not yet Quanta - they have yet to prove their reliability - famous last words - Just Words! will be financing the QL2004 advertising in the Quanta Magazine - however you will get the principle.) All I am asking is whether a little money would provide a little oil to a machine that is slowly rusting to a standstill. (There is, I believe, the precedence of the colour drivers.) The question you ask, What would you do for £1,000? should be considered by everyone. Thanks to everyone for their contributions. They are all being carefully noted, although unfortunately I have not yet seen much that I can recommend to Quanta. (Some good ideas would fail for legal and practical reasons.) I am very concerned about the future of Quanta. Most of its money is spent on workshops, which I suspect are becoming more and more burnt out, or the magazine whose problems are obvious. The one thing Quanta has is financial stability. How can we use that for the benefit of its members and the QL community? Geoff
Re: Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1s t attempt)
Personally, the lack of Internet access for the QL/Q40 is not an issue for me. I have a PC for most of my Internet use (dial up) and use the system at work for larger downloads (T-1). I look at the QL as a nice hobbiest computer. I find it fun to use and to work on. I find learning more about the QL interesting and useful towards learning other computers. The QL can't compete with a full blown PC for capabilites, but it really should not. How many other computers can you still use today that you've been using for almost 20 years. Tim Swenson
RE: [ql-users] Eindhoven 27 mars
Désolé : non pour ma part Claude -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la part de Arnould Nazarian Envoyé : lundi 15 mars 2004 07:50 À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : [ql-users] Eindhoven 27 mars Bjr, Est ce que qq'un de la région parisienne irait à Eindhoven le 27 mars? Arnould
[ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
Hi, a short visit to this list, since I've been asked for a comment on a similar subject. As some of you know, I'm working on a software that has the realistic potential to provide - Native ethernet for Q40/Q60 - Driver for Nasta's unfinished ethernet extension (QL/GC/SGC...) - Native connectivity to TCP/IP equipped printers (alternative to USB?) - Graphical POP3+SMTP email client - Reliable file up- and download by network or serial - Webserver - TCP/IP stack, PPP, SLIP - Free of charge - Fully open source Since I'm originally a hardware rather than a software guy, you can imagine how tough it was for me. How much money is my effort worth? I don't know. But if someone asked me for commercial use of this, I wouldn't even consider to let him have it for £ 2000 - it's too far away from paying my time. I'd like to do the opposite: I'd like to make my work available free of charge, the core as part of a free QL operating system, the applications as free software. Amount of money to spend: £ 0.00 If nothing in the QL scene changes, my project will continue slowly at my own chosen speed, and the only platform to run on might be QDOS Classic, for the simple reason that it is the only free QL operating system on the Q60. Time for an offer: I could possibly be persuaded to try and integrate my drivers into SMSQ/E for the whole range of QL style machines, by a simple act of wisdom: Place SMSQ/E under the GPL. (I have no problem to accept modifications to allow QPC remain commercial.) I should add that I personally don't give a dime about post-Tony-Tebby SMSQ/E anymore. I can live with some QDOS Classic tinkering or let go the QL completely. But there are a few folks that keep asking me, and it's for them that I make this offer. Now shoot at me or give it a serious consideration - your choice. Arnould Nazarian wrote: A few years ago (some might remember) I had a short discussion with the author of that arachne browser http://browser.arachne.cz The program is written in C only. An idea of pricing was 8000 USD, but IIRC he wrote to me that this amount could be lowered to 2000 USD if there were some royalties foreseen. I may go and visit him in Prague next summer to speak with him. I have partially ported the textmode browser RETAWQ until I got stuck with a C68 related problem. Fast, small, even a Q in the name. How about that, maybe with an integrated picture viewer? Cost: See above. All the best Peter
Re: [ql-users] dragdrop
Ive tried to post a certain message on this topic a number of times, but it doesnt get through! It doesnt contain any obscene language or anything like that (although the words size and large appear three times - could that be the problem?) I dont find this list server very reliable. Messages sometimes take a long time to arrive, and do so rather higgledy-piggledy (probably as a result) - much more so than with nvg.ntnu.no... Per
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
Peter Graf writes: Time for an offer: I could possibly be persuaded to try and integrate my drivers into SMSQ/E for the whole range of QL style machines, by a simple act of wisdom: Place SMSQ/E under the GPL. (I have no problem to accept modifications to allow QPC remain commercial.) Speaking for myself, the only persuasion Id be inclined to attempt is for you to come in from the cold. Per
Re: [ql-users] £ 0.00 to spend! (1st attempt)
On 15 Mar 2004 at 17:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Time for an offer: I could possibly be persuaded to try and integrate my drivers into SMSQ/E for the whole range of QL style machines, by a simple act of wisdom: Place SMSQ/E under the GPL. (I have no problem to accept modifications to allow QPC remain commercial.) I know that this issue has come up before. There are a couple of QL programmers that refuse to support SMSQ/E until it is GPL'd. There are others that feel that Tony Tebby should still be compensated for his work. The only middle ground that I can see is for the QL community, as a whole or part, get together, pass the hat and buy the rights to SMSQ/E from Tony Tebby. At that point the new owners of SMSQ/E could then release SMSQ/E under the GPL. If I ever won the Lottery, this would be the first thing I'd do. But, since I don't play the lottery (only slightly decreasing my chances of winning), this is still just a dream. I would be willing to chip on some $$ to support the project. I think it would be a worthy cause and help the QL community in the long run. So until all are interested in chipping in some $$, or until Tony Tebby changes his mind, this matter should be closed. For those not willing to move SMSQ/E, if the issue is cost, I'd be willing to purchase a copy of SMSQ/E to give to you so that you can move forward. The license cost is cheap enough to not be an issue and it is worth it to me to see a few important QL programmers support SMSQ/E. Tim Swenson
Re: [ql-users] dragdrop
Per wrote: I thought Id have a go just to demonstrate: 100 s = SCR_BASE + SCR_LLEN + 4 : rem Start at top left of screen 110 xs = 100: ys = 10 : rem X/y size 150 POKE_L a, $2200020: rem Mode 32 sprite w alpha channel Per, this is GREAT! It works fine, you can take the sprite into an EasyPtr program, making it the actual pointer sprite with SPRS. It can even be longer than 64 pixels in contrary to what Marcel says. Crazy :-)) I have two questions, though: 1) With the PVAL procedure (result%(10 and 11)) I can determine the origin of a window. How would I have to alter your line 100 when PVAL returns xorg%=500, yorg%=300 (just to take an example) 2) In line 150 you define the opacity of the sprite. Could you explain which change to the value would result in which degree of opacity? Thanks in advance, Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Menu_rext
Merz wrote: Per was referring to WIN and RAM ... and I tried it the way described and it worked fine - no directories listed, no crash. Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: It does crash here, though, as said in my second message... I just never used win, because I use dev It happended on switching from dev to ram. My 2d th. I've just tested the 3 SGC systems that I use: SGC-Aurora-Qbide 1.53: Minerva 1.93 Menu_rext 7.57 SMSQ/E 2.89 Menu_rext 7.57 SMSQ/E 3.03 Menu_rext 7.65 On all three OS's swaping from win1_xyz_ to drive 3 when win3_xyz_ doesn't exist crashes with DIR_SELECT$ Swaping from ram1_xyz_ to drive 3 when ram3_xyz_ is OK FILE_SELECT$ is OK too. Looks like QBIDE diectory drivers are the common factor? Jon.
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
Geoff Wicks wrote: This means that Quanta would have a sum of about £1,000 each year to spend on QL development. How should they spend this money? On march, 8th, Laurence Reeves answered:: 1000 pounds to the person who ports OpenOffice? ;) That seems like a lot of cash for what is a pretty trivial task. Lau If it's so trivial a task, why don't you do it for the money, Geoff offers you, Lau? ;-)) Wolfgang
[ql-users] problem with the new C68 pieces for WMAN
In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been using this new stuff from George Gwilt with no problem BUT I suspect that in my setup the old version of the library can still be found by the linker. Is it not possible to extract this module from the old library using ar and then stick it in the new one? Christopher Cave
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
gwicks wrote: snip This means that Quanta would have a sum of about £1,000 each year to spend on QL development. How should they spend this money? snip Remember your subscription is your money, not Quanta's. How would you like them to spend it on your behalf? Geoff Wicks. Hi Take a look at the XXS1500 module at: http://www.mycable.de/ This small module has the potential to provide any QL with an Ethernet and USB interface. With some development on each side it could be the basis for the solution to several of the connection problems for real QLs I think the main stumbling block might be the price that's where the £1000 come in, to subsidize the price to members any comments Jon.
Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: I was thinking on the subject of what next for the QL. I think we really need something that acts like a web browser. This means the display of text and graphics in the same viewer. There was an attempt a few years back at writing a web browser for the QL (from Italy I think), but it really went no where. Anyhow, that's my choice. Tim Swenson Also my choice. A few years ago (some might remember) I had a short discussion with the author of that arachne browser http://browser.arachne.cz The program is written in C only. An idea of pricing was 8000 USD, but IIRC he wrote to me that this amount could be lowered to 2000 USD if there were some royalties foreseen. I may go and visit him in Prague next summer to speak with him. Arnould
[ql-users] Turbo
Just thought I should mention something that might cause a few strange hiccoughs: Turbo Toolkit (TTK) comes in two different forms, one version for SMSQ/E and one generic version. The generic PEEK$ and POKE$ are a sub-set of SMSQ/E's PEEK$ and POKE$ and have therefore been ommitted in the SMSQ/E version. This implies, among other things, that (Basic or compiled Basic) programs that claim to be SMSQ/E compatible wont be if you have loaded the generic version of TTK into SMSQ/E. Always use TURBO_SMSQ_CODE in SMSQ/E. Per
[ql-users] Re: [ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
Geoff Wicks writes: Remember your subscription is your money, not Quanta's. How would you like them to spend it on your behalf? In a way, hardware development is more deserving as hw developers have real outlays apart from spare time, ie their profit can go negative rather than just zero. But how relevant is hw development at this time? Rather than the sexy stuff, like an AuroraII or a Q3500 (!), we would need things like USB, CD drives and Ethernet just to stay afloat. Can a small sect support such an undertaking, even with leveraged assistance from Quanta? I think possibly the best place to start would be with a survey - a massive and thorough one - to try to determine what punters really, really want. (See http://www.questionpro.com/ for a way of doing it via email or the web) I know our record on responding to surveys has not been great in the past, but things change and lessons are learnt, so, together with the sort of promotion we saw for QL2000, it could still be a sucess. Without it, we are blind and cant really hope to get it right. A survey should determine what people already have and what they wish for; how much they would be prepared to spend on various proposed strategic and desirable items; how punters would respond to un-renewable hardware packing up; how well aware people are of existing alternatives; etc Keep up the good work Geoff! We need it ;) Per
Re: [ql-users] dragdrop
Wolfgang Uhlig writes: I have two questions, though: 1) With the PVAL procedure (result%(10 and 11)) I can determine the origin of a window. How would I have to alter your line 100 when PVAL returns xorg%=500, yorg%=300 (just to take an example) As you will know by now, I sent you the solution in a private mail: A small SBasic function to cut out any reasonable sized piece of screen and convert it to a pointer sprite. 2) In line 150 you define the opacity of the sprite. Could you explain which change to the value would result in which degree of opacity? Possible alpha-mask values go from 0..255, with 0 being totally transparent and 255 being solid. Thus the value I chose, 128, makes the sprite semi-transparent. Per
Re: [ql-users] Re: [ql-users] 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
Wolfgang Uhlig wrote: Geoff Wicks wrote: This means that Quanta would have a sum of about £1,000 each year to spend on QL development. How should they spend this money? On march, 8th, Laurence Reeves answered:: 1000 pounds to the person who ports OpenOffice? ;) That seems like a lot of cash for what is a pretty trivial task. Lau If it's so trivial a task, why don't you do it for the money, Geoff offers you, Lau? ;-)) Wolfgang Because I'm being a lazy, good-for-nothing slob. -- Lau http://www.bergbland.info Get a domain from http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5165217 and I'll get the commission!
Re: [ql-users] problem with the new C68 pieces for WMAN
Actually, I believe that if you have both versions of the library available (your make file would have to include both), you would get notices of doubling defined items. I probably could extract this piece and move it over but am concerned that I have a piece that is old which is calling this. Who knows, it may be causing me other issues. So I would rather figure out what I have wrong. Have time to do this as I am doing tons of other stuff before I need to actually get to the new color pieces (believe me - tons of stuff!). Can you tell me the source of the C68 that you have on your system, version level, and perhaps when and if you did any updates (and their source) to it. This might help me track the differences. Thanks, jim ~~ Jim Hunkins JDH Software Technologies ~~ On Mar 14, 2004, at 4:49 AM, Christopher Cave wrote: In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been using this new stuff from George Gwilt with no problem BUT I suspect that in my setup the old version of the library can still be found by the linker. Is it not possible to extract this module from the old library using ar and then stick it in the new one? Christopher Cave
Re: [ql-users] Menu_rext
Hi, no problem here whatsoever QPC, Menurext 7.65, SMSQ/E 3.04 Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Menu_rext
On March 13, 2004 6:52 AM, Wolfgan Lenerz wrote: On 13 Mar 2004 at 1:37, P Witte wrote: (...) On 13 Mar 2004 at 3:17, Marcel Kilgus wrote: (...) Don't you guys ever sleep? Of course. Only we get up a wee bit earlier than you ;) Per
Re: [ql-users] Menu_rext
Wolfgang Lenerz writes: On 13 Mar 2004 at 1:37, P Witte wrote: (...) I've now also tested this on ram, and the problem does, indeed, exist there But this is still with a patched version of menu_rext Thanks for your help - Marcel too. This gave me enough info to get a grip on the issue. I first thought there might be a difference between the German and English versions of Menu_rext, but that wasnt the problem. The problem is a bug in the short filenames implementation. This is set in the configuration item: Menu Extension/General/Short filenames in File-Select/ If you configure this item to Yes you get the deviant behaviour as described in my earlier mail. Strangely, this doesnt affect FILE_SELECT$ anymore. Can this be fixed, please? Per
Re: [ql-users] dragdrop
when you program with EasyPtr, it is very easy to create dragdrop-routines where you do as if you'd really move the contents of a menuitem by setting the pointer to a sprite. I have done this in Launchpad with the Icon Move routines. If the contents of the menuitem is already a sprite, this is no problem at all. Different when there is only a string. Isn't there a possibility to make a sprite out of the string on the fly? Possibly with a background-system-colour? I know that there is something like blobs and patterns but I have never understood how this works. I'd like that very much and think it would make dragdrop routines much more attractive and clear. The easy alternative is to make a 'text' sprite which is made into the pointer sprite when the item to be dragged is text. This could be as simple as a sprite which looks like the letters 'TEXT' with a black border around it! (This is what I do in my programs). The format of blobs and patterns are documented in pages 107-109 of the QPTR guide. Unfortunately, I never had much success using them with Easyptr and I don't know why. Reading text items from the screen is not very easy as they don't exist as objects as such on the screen, although Simon Goodwin wrote DIY Toolkit procedures to read text from the screen on a mode 4 screen. It compares the bit patterns on the screen to the bit patterns of text characters in the channel's text font and returns as a string any text it thinks it has found in the area specified of the screen. It might be possible to do something like this: If mouse button held down drag a rectangle on the screen until button released read the area within the rectangle as a partial save area into memory if mouse button held down again convert the top left of the area into a suitably sized patterns and blob or sprite make this the current pointer for that channel drop it when button released again else release partial save area go back to normal end if else normal actions end if -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] Menu_rext
On 13 Mar 2004 at 10:40, P Witte wrote: Don't you guys ever sleep? Of course. Only we get up a wee bit earlier than you ;) Per I didn't realize we had vampires on this list. Back into the coffin at the crack of dawn, huh? Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] dragdrop
On 13 Mar 2004 at 11:59, Wolfgang Uhlig wrote: Isn't there a possibility to make a sprite out of the string on the fly? Possibly with a background-system-colour? I know that there is something like blobs and patterns but I have never understood how this works. I'd like that very much and think it would make dragdrop routines much more attractive and clear. Do yo want to make a string into a sprite on the fly? This would be a rather non trivial task! Wolfgang
[ql-users] £ 1000 to spend! (2nd attempt!)
Thanks to all the people who have replied to this thread. Nice to know I can still stir things up! Just a pity that the subject was hijacked into a discussion on printers although there were one or two other good suggestions. Thus a 2nd attempt to get answers. Let me be more specific why I posed the question. Members of Quanta who read financial reports - maybe a contradiction in terms - will note something strange happened last year. Quanta has consistently made a loss since 1999, but last year it made a profit of £1,363. This was partly due to the reduced frequency of the magazine; partly due to increased advertising; and partly due to the efforts of Rich Mellor in selling Sinclair equipment on behalf of Quanta. It is also noticeable that the costs of workshops fell from £1,944 in 2002 to £1,156 in 2003. There is some evidence that these savings could become structural with a little bit of discipline. Present workshop locations are cheap to hire and, if the South East show organisers could get together to co-operate on show dates over a 2 year period rather than compete with one another, this saving could become structural. (Thanks to Roy for taking the first steps in this direction!) This means that Quanta would have a sum of about £1,000 each year to spend on QL development. How should they spend this money? In fact Quanta would have two possible ways of financially stimulating QL development. Major projects (SGC successor?) could be financed out of the capital. These would have to be backed with good business plans and legal safeguards to ensure that there was a return on the capital and that Quanta does not lose its favourable tax status. Minor projects (mainly software?) could be financed out of subscription income. No financial return would be expected from these and thus there would be fewer legal difficulties over tax etc. Remember your subscription is your money, not Quanta's. How would you like them to spend it on your behalf? Geoff Wicks.
Re: [ql-users] Menu_rext
The first thing I do is replace every instance of DEV in menu_rext with ZZZ, thus avoiding this automatic replacement, which I just absolutely don't want. I thought that the problems with total memory corruption somehow were connected to that. I have never seen this on win devices, nor ram devices, but haven't ever tested this extensively. Yes, it is KNOWN for DEV devices but I remove it so that can't be the problem (or is it, Per?). I had to remove DEV because the implementation is a fiddle, and it led to all sorts of crashes (like the ones described). It does not happen on real level 2 directory devices, not on my system, and from what I read so far, not on anybody elses. Per was referring to WIN and RAM ... and I tried it the way described and it worked fine - no directories listed, no crash. Cheers Jochen
Re: [ql-users] dragdrop
@ Dilwyn The easy alternative is to make a 'text' sprite which is made into the pointer sprite when the item to be dragged is text. This could be as simple as a sprite which looks like the letters 'TEXT' with a black border around it! (This is what I do in my programs). That's not what I mean. I mean a sprite made out of a string, got out of a list of strings by MTEXT$ for example. The format of blobs and patterns are documented in pages 107-109 of the QPTR guide. Unfortunately, I never had much success using them with Easyptr and I don't know why. Me neither Reading text items from the screen is not very easy as ... That's not what I want to do @Wolfgang Do yo want to make a string into a sprite on the fly? Yes, I thought, I wrote that ;-) This would be a rather non trivial task! That's what I was afraid of. What would be the problem when trying to do this? Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] dragdrop
Wolfgang Uhlig wrote: Do yo want to make a string into a sprite on the fly? Yes, I thought, I wrote that ;-) This would be a rather non trivial task! That's what I was afraid of. What would be the problem when trying to do this? That I'd like to know, too ;-) Sounds rather trivial to me. Just a matter of effort, but not technically complicated if you use some own font (which could equal the current system font). Mind you that mouse pointer have a max size of only IIRC 64 pixels, though, so not much more than about 10 characters would be possible. Marcel
