Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
The only way, taking a leaf from Linux, that it is going to increase it's market penetration is if it is freely available for download, under a GNU license. This is a bullet that has to be bitten, if there is to be any future for the platform! Very encouraging discussion ... how many new software products will people write for QDOS/SMSQ, being told they better give it away for free to stabilize their own future ...? Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
The only way, taking a leaf from Linux, that it is going to increase it's market penetration is if it is freely available for download, under a GNU license. This is a bullet that has to be bitten, if there is to be any future for the platform! Very encouraging discussion ... how many new software products will people write for QDOS/SMSQ, being told they better give it away for free to stabilize their own future ...? Taking an example from the Linux community again, a LOT, if they have any real belief in the future of the platform. How many work in the QL sector for real monetary gain, rather than love of the product? Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
I really cannot imagine that a price of 45 pounds is unaffordable. One visit to a restaurant with your family is likely to be more expensive. Bad example if you live in the US ;-) hehe (You can feed 4 for about $20... mind you not a fancy restaurant but a lot of food nonetheless... how do you think I got to be SO Huge? :-P) You don't live in flaming Rip-Off-Britain do you? (Though that doesn't seem to have helped me lose weight). Yes but why shell another $100 for Windoze? It makes more sense to run QPC2 under WineX (as it requires DirectX or maybe compile it with SDL or something ;-) so that compatibility is ensured maybe even under FreeBSD/Linux?) There are such options available to those who know about them. The 'unknown' factor means people may be reluctant to try them, but the options are there. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that QPC2 is a great piece of software :-) Anyone who uses it regularly would agree with that as long as the proce is acceptable to them. At the end of the day it's choice...pay and get the best or use the (good) free options like QLay2 and uQLx and QDOS Classic. Dilwyn ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
COLIN PARSONS wrote: The only way, taking a leaf from Linux, that it is going to increase it's market penetration is if it is freely available for download, under a GNU license. This is a bullet that has to be bitten, if there is to be any future for the platform! One can make money with free software also, but by adding value instead of charging for the rigths over the binaries. Added value can be: - Distribution packages (Disk/CD/DVD) - Handbooks and documentation - Commercial support (e.g. for those who bought the package/docs) - Provide development for a donation (but the resulting code will be free) - A piece of hardware that uses the free software Nobody will gain a monopoly on such an added value, because the software itself remains free. Nevertheless successful business around free software has proven to work, especially in the embedded systems market. It requires flexibility though. Even in the QL scene, selling added value for free software is not impossible. E.g. the QDOS Classic/Q60 Linux CD sold well, although the software was free and one could have also downloaded the contained pieces at no charge. Also developers of free QL software have been given donations. Such ideas came too faint and too late for the QL probably. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
We're not competing with Linux or anything else - what we have is unique, thanks to many people. I'd say that EVERYBODY who puts time into QDOS/SMSQ does it because he likes it ... some do it for free, some don't, but isn't it up to them? This view fits in with what people tell me, that they like and use QDOS or SMSQ/E because it is is interesting and different. You can write your own programs and generally tinker with a computer at your leisure without it being the same old Windows you use every day at work. We do need to attract some new and/or ex users, and we are fortunate in having high end QPC2 and Q60 to choose from at one end of the QL scale and the free emulators at the other, with an excellent moderately priced high compatibility QDOS emulator in the middle of the proce scale. We all have our preferences as to QL systems, the point is there is a good choice which you don't always get in this kind of situation. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
One can make money with free software also, but by adding value instead of charging for the rigths over the binaries. Added value can be: - Distribution packages (Disk/CD/DVD) - Handbooks and documentation - Commercial support (e.g. for those who bought the package/docs) - Provide development for a donation (but the resulting code will be free) - A piece of hardware that uses the free software Nobody will gain a monopoly on such an added value, because the software itself remains free. Nevertheless successful business around free software has proven to work, especially in the embedded systems market. It requires flexibility though. Even in the QL scene, selling added value for free software is not impossible. E.g. the QDOS Classic/Q60 Linux CD sold well, although the software was free and one could have also downloaded the contained pieces at no charge. Also developers of free QL software have been given donations. Such ideas came too faint and too late for the QL probably. Peter I don't always agree with what Peter says, but I think he makes his point well here. This is certainly food for thought. I know myself having put most of my older programs onto my website for free download, I still get people asking for copies on disk or CD or for minor updates for their own needs for which they are willing to pay modest amounts. I must admit, I'm seeing both sides of the viewpoints presented here today. It will be very interesting to see how this dicussion develops. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Perfection
Dilwyn Jones writes: Although I don't think Freddy gets much time for QLing these days, he speaks nostalgically of his time with the QL. I happened to mention Quanta's QL Is 21 meeting to him. He said it may be of interest to him and might wish to attend, if only for nostalgic reasons, if his work etc allows at the time, so there is a possibility we may see him there this autumn as well. Some time ago, I was also in email contact with Leon Heller, Quanta founder, and he said he may take an interest if his commitments allow nearer the time. Wouldn't it be great if we could have a few such distinguished guests from the QL's past attending this event! Hear, hear! Im all for it. Will someone make sure they get reminders in good time? (We wouldnt want them to get away, would we ;) And how about Sector Beatty, SNG, Sturat, Lau Reeves, Jonathan Oakley, Chas Dillon, and anyone else we can think of, too? Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Dilwyn Jones writes: One can make money with free software also, but by adding value instead of charging for the rigths over the binaries. Added value can be: - Distribution packages (Disk/CD/DVD) - Handbooks and documentation - Commercial support (e.g. for those who bought the package/docs) - Provide development for a donation (but the resulting code will be free) - A piece of hardware that uses the free software Nobody will gain a monopoly on such an added value, because the software itself remains free. Nevertheless successful business around free software has proven to work, especially in the embedded systems market. It requires flexibility though. Even in the QL scene, selling added value for free software is not impossible. E.g. the QDOS Classic/Q60 Linux CD sold well, although the software was free and one could have also downloaded the contained pieces at no charge. Also developers of free QL software have been given donations. Such ideas came too faint and too late for the QL probably. Peter I don't always agree with what Peter says, but I think he makes his point well here. This is certainly food for thought. I know myself having put most of my older programs onto my website for free download, I still get people asking for copies on disk or CD or for minor updates for their own needs for which they are willing to pay modest amounts. I must admit, I'm seeing both sides of the viewpoints presented here today. It will be very interesting to see how this dicussion develops. Id go one better: The place to start, of course, is to make the Qx0 designs public and free so other people can develop and improve them, and in some cases, build their own. A free computer to run free software on. Just the thing. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
- Original Message - From: P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeremy Taffel writes: So, all I was saying is that I think that there could be a market beyond the one that seemingly (according to other emails) has reached saturation, and foolishly set myself up as a skinflint by offering myself as someone who fell into that market. I think it is perfectly valid to put the question although, of course, it is not our call to answer it. However, it doesnt appear to be the solution to the particular problem you pose: You wrote: As I said, I am only a casual user. If I needed it I could, of course afford it, but I don't. Any purchase would be purely out of curiosity, and once that had been satisfied I don't know whether I'd continue using it. So whats wrong with the demo version of QPC2? You can check out most of the new facilities and run most new programs. Enough to satisfy curiosity, I should think. You can't save any work. Hardly the way to encourage any new programmer to the platform!! Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes So, all I was saying is that I think that there could be a market beyond the one that seemingly (according to other emails) has reached saturation, and foolishly set myself up as a skinflint by offering myself as someone who fell into that market. Jeremy Well, your email has succeeded in encouraging discussion on this list and good often comes out of discussion, even it gets a little heated from time to time. Many (initially) good ideas fall by the wayside after discussion, but many are also lost for fear of mentioning them and getting oneself into heated debate, so I don't think it was a subject which should have been avoided at all. With QPC you have to accept that it is being developed and sold as a commercial product. Once you have 'bitten the bullet' and bought it . at a cost of less than a pound over a year you never look back, just enjoy it ! The same with QDT, although I have only used it for a few weeks now, I already feel that I have enjoyed the benefit and 'got my moneys worth' in value. It is also a part of the fun to be involved in supporting any new developments. Join it is what I say ... after all this is an interest that we are meant to enjoy. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], COLIN PARSONS [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Taking an example from the Linux community again, a LOT, if they have any real belief in the future of the platform. How many work in the QL sector for real monetary gain, rather than love of the product? This is an argument we re-visit every now and then. The trouble is those who get on the horse at one end of the valley marked 'Free For All' and those at the opposite end never ever change their mind so we all trot out the same tired clichés. Both sides are possible. You can write software and give it away for free if you want. QPC2 does not stop you doing that. Or you can write software and sell it. Trouble is there are very few people doing either. We should appreciate both of these sides and say 'thank you'. What we do get is people saying 'well I don't use the platform much, and I only take a passing interest in it but make it free anyway' The answer is simple. If you want it, and it cost money, buy it. If you think it is too dear, don't. There are many free or cheap emulators - they may not be so good or get such sustained development, but then that is what you are paying for. If you object to the author owning the rights to his own work don't buy by it but don't whinge on about it. It is, after all his decision. I own a garden at the back of my house. You are welcome to look at it but I don't want you digging in it or building on it. No difference. The idea that you can make money with 'added value' is nonsense because people still call me at all hours and want support - usually for things they have not bought from me. People still send disks for 'free updates in little envelopes with no return labels and postage, and people don't 'buy' manuals. I found this out with ProWesS when I offered to print them at cost. For many people the manual should be in my house so they can call me up and have me read it to them as some kind of techno bedtime story. We all have our own viewpoint on this. I suggest that, after several discussion on the subject we all give up trying to change the other sides mind. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:44:10 -0400, Roy wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], COLIN PARSONS [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Taking an example from the Linux community again, a LOT, if they have any real belief in the future of the platform. How many work in the QL sector for real monetary gain, rather than love of the product? This is an argument we re-visit every now and then. The trouble is those who get on the horse at one end of the valley marked 'Free For All' and those at the opposite end never ever change their mind so we all trot out the same tired clichs. There is an inherent problem here, confusing the Freedom for All with the Free for All... FOS Software does not mean Free Support if the dealer or creator doesn't intend it that way. Users that confuse the both need a quick lecture that's all... Now from that point to the point of offering support for things you haven't sold or that are free are each one's decision. But that's not the FOSS community's fault certainly but rather the user's that demands too much - There is a reason for the You give them an inch they'll take a mile saying... :-) Both sides are possible. You can write software and give it away for free if you want. QPC2 does not stop you doing that. Or you can write software and sell it. Trouble is there are very few people doing either. We should appreciate both of these sides and say 'thank you'. Absolutely. After all belief in the FOSS idea doesn't mean that one can dictate what everybody else would do... if that were true, we'd all be called Microsoft ;-) hehe What we do get is people saying 'well I don't use the platform much, and I only take a passing interest in it but make it free anyway' Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And there are certainly ways to satisfy anyone... If someone wants the platform to be free but they are not interested in buying QPC or QemuLator and uQLx doesn't satisfy them... they can always go ahead and change for example uQLx to support colours etc... :-) My particular beef with SMSQ/e is with its license. I just do not believe that it is fair. I'd rather have it completely closed, but that is my personal belief. I do not seek to impose it on anyone and I think noone else should either. There is a name for trying to do so ;-) It is called Dubya ;-) hehehe The answer is simple. If you want it, and it cost money, buy it. If you think it is too dear, don't. There are many free or cheap emulators - they may not be so good or get such sustained development, but then that is what you are paying for. If you object to the author owning the rights to his own work don't buy by it but don't whinge on about it. I do not disagree with what Roy says here (oh my! :-) ) however because I feel that the same mistake is propagated, FOS Software does NOT mean that the author does not own the work. He just CHOOSES to make available. Copyright IS retained! It is, after all his decision. I own a garden at the back of my house. You are welcome to look at it but I don't want you digging in it or building on it. No difference. Exactly. The idea that you can make money with 'added value' is nonsense because people still call me at all hours and want support - usually for things they have not bought from me. People still send disks for 'free updates in little envelopes with no return labels and postage, and people don't 'buy' manuals. I found this out with ProWesS when I offered to print them at cost. For many people the manual should be in my house so they can call me up and have me read it to them as some kind of techno bedtime story. As I said above, I think you got it wrong here. The fact that you choose to answer the questions or that these users call, has NOTHING to do with Support schemes. If you choose to answer, well that's a credit to you, but not the software author's fault! You SHOULD charge for support for FOSS... there's nobody stopping you from doing so and most likely I suspect that the phonecalls would stop very fast as well ;-) As for the Added Value of support being nonsense, I do not think that software giants like RedHat, Novell and mySQL are stupid... do you? They base their income on that scheme :-) We all have our own viewpoint on this. I suggest that, after several discussion on the subject we all give up trying to change the other sides mind. Absolutely, Ffibys ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Familiar old names ....was Perfection
Hear, hear! Im all for it. Will someone make sure they get reminders in good time? (We wouldnt want them to get away, would we ;) And how about Sector Beatty, SNG, Sturat, Lau Reeves, Jonathan Oakley, Chas Dillon, and anyone else we can think of, too? One of the reasons we are setting up a QL is 21 website is to help catch fishes like these. It is a way of showing them the QL is alive and well. So please send these people the site address when it is online. The present situation is that the final version of the site has now gone to the committee for any last minute comments. We then have to co-ordinate the announcement with the Quanta website. Hopefully this will all be done before or during the weekend, Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Phoebus Dokos wrote: As I said above, I think you got it wrong here. The fact that you choose to answer the questions or that these users call, has NOTHING to do with Support schemes. If you choose to answer, well that's a credit to you, but not the software author's fault! You SHOULD charge for support for FOSS... there's nobody stopping you from doing so and most likely I suspect that the phonecalls would stop very fast as well ;-) As for the Added Value of support being nonsense, I do not think that software giants like RedHat, Novell and mySQL are stupid... do you? They base their income on that scheme :-) One technique is to get an 0870 (national number) at 7p a minutes and 1p or 2p of the call charge is given to you, this is like the system that free ISPs use and if I had the money for a second line for a QL ISP I would use. The Phone Coop (http://www.thephone.coop) used to offer this service for free, I do not know if they still do. -- Tarquin Mills (Chairman) ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/ http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/ (We want a Spectrum +4) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Tarquin Mills wrote: Phoebus Dokos wrote: As I said above, I think you got it wrong here. The fact that you choose to answer the questions or that these users call, has NOTHING to do with Support schemes. If you choose to answer, well that's a credit to you, but not the software author's fault! You SHOULD charge for support for FOSS... there's nobody stopping you from doing so and most likely I suspect that the phonecalls would stop very fast as well ;-) As for the Added Value of support being nonsense, I do not think that software giants like RedHat, Novell and mySQL are stupid... do you? They base their income on that scheme :-) One technique is to get an 0870 (national number) at 7p a minutes and 1p or 2p of the call charge is given to you, this is like the system that free ISPs use and if I had the money for a second line for a QL ISP I would use. The Phone Coop (http://www.thephone.coop) used to offer this service for free, I do not know if they still do. ... but these special numbers, and also 0900 etc., cannot be reached from outside the UK. We have similar Service numbers here in Germany (0180), which are a rip-off. Making the customer pay 9ct/min to get 1ct/min is pretty bad and only makes the phone companies rich. I avoid companies offering this kind of service, and especially companies where you have to call 0900 numbers. In addition, if you have to call these special numbers from the mobile phone, then you're totally ripped off ... they cost an average of 50ct/min ... and it still leaves only 1ct at the other end. (I thought you have minimum wages in the UK - is it allowed to work for 60p/hour???) ;-) Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Perfection
Although I don't think Freddy gets much time for QLing these days, he speaks nostalgically of his time with the QL. I happened to mention Quanta's QL Is 21 meeting to him. He said it may be of interest to him and might wish to attend, if only for nostalgic reasons, if his work etc allows at the time, so there is a possibility we may see him there this autumn as well. Some time ago, I was also in email contact with Leon Heller, Quanta founder, and he said he may take an interest if his commitments allow nearer the time. Wouldn't it be great if we could have a few such distinguished guests from the QL's past attending this event! Hear, hear! Im all for it. Will someone make sure they get reminders in good time? (We wouldnt want them to get away, would we ;) And how about Sector Beatty, SNG, Sturat, Lau Reeves, Jonathan Oakley, Chas Dillon, and anyone else we can think of, too? All for that...anyone who knows any of these well known people from the QL's past, let them know where Geoff's website may be found once it's available, that way they can be aware of where and when it is. Although I'd previously tried to make contact with Freddy, I'd failed (he had in fact given me his phone number last time I met him a few years ago but I'd managed to lose it since then). It was sheer coincidence he happened to contact me on another matter today and I took the opportunity to discuss Perfection and QL Is 21 with him. I ended up getting told off at work for the length of time I was on the phone with him this morning, but at least Freddy was paying and it was worth it to have a nice long chat with him again! -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.18 - Release Date: 19/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Q40 for sale, reasonable price
Hi John, if you have not managed to sell it by the time of the next QL Today deadline (15th May) send Jochen or me an email with a small advert for inclusion in the mag if you like. Dilwyn Jones - Original Message - From: John Rawden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:25 PM Subject: [ql-users] Q40 for sale, reasonable price Hi all, Have a reduntant Q40, not used since have a Q60, price 100. buyer to collect from Hastings. John . ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.18 - Release Date: 19/04/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.18 - Release Date: 19/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tarquin Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes One technique is to get an 0870 (national number) at 7p a minutes and 1p or 2p of the call charge is given to you, this is like the system that free ISPs use and if I had the money for a second line for a QL ISP I would use. The Phone Coop (http://www.thephone.coop) used to offer this service for free, I do not know if they still do. Don't forget to add the 1-2 minute recorded announcement about 'please listen to the following options carefully .. calls may be recorded for training and' followed by the options in a complex manner and 'to 'repeat these options key 9' by that time you have spent a bit. And then you get 'all of our operators are busy. Your call is important to us (but not important enough to actually employ anyone to answer it) so please hold the line until an operator becomes available (or until we have made enough to retire)' -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], =?utf-8?B?XCJQaG9lYnVzIFIuIERva29zICjOps6/zq/Oss6/z4IgzqEuIM6dz4TPjA==?= =?utf-8?B?zrpcIlwizr/PgilcIg==?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP FOS Software does not mean Free Support if the dealer or creator doesn't intend it that way. Users that confuse the both need a quick lecture that's all... That was my point Marcel, Jochen and I choose to sell it. They know the price. Try arguing with the man at the petrol pump on a slack day or the supermarket checkout at night by saying - there are not many people buying why not halve the price. Now from that point to the point of offering support for things you haven't sold or that are free are each one's decision. But that's not the FOSS community's fault certainly but rather the user's that demands too much - There is a reason for the You give them an inch they'll take a mile saying... :-) Most of them are friends after all these years so I help anyway. Some are a pain in the fundamental orifice - but, curiously, they don't seem to realise they are in that group. SNIP If someone wants the platform to be free but they are not interested in buying QPC or QemuLator and uQLx doesn't satisfy them... they can always go ahead and change for example uQLx to support colours etc... :-) My point entirely. The free software brigade is so active they have already changed the free QL emulators into something that makes SMSQ/E and QPC2 obsolete. If these people would stand up I could hear them more clearly. My particular beef with SMSQ/e is with its license. I just knew someone would mention that. Like it or not there has been more improvement in SMSQ/E since the licence than in any other system. SNIP Support schemes. If you choose to answer, well that's a credit to you, but not the software author's fault! You SHOULD charge for support for FOSS... there's nobody stopping you from doing so and most likely I suspect that the phonecalls would stop very fast as well ;-) As for the Added Value of support being nonsense, I do not think that software giants like RedHat, Novell and mySQL are stupid... do you? They base their income on that scheme :-) That is because this stuff is so hard to understand. One interesting thing is that people base their assumption that LINUX has and increasing market share on sales and downloads but how many try it and give up? I work in an area where we interact with the public. Users, small and large businesses. Some businesses run LINUX and are very happy with it. Some run both LINUX and WINDOWS because they need computability. (Yes , you can read and write Office formats under Open Office but it screws them up as Marcel and I found out while doing the EPTR manual. Annoying stuff like not being able to edit the footers afterwards etc.). Some tried it and reverted to WINDOWS because there was not enough software or drivers. When you get down to the individual users many have bought it. Some never tried it some couldn't understand how to install it and some are happy. Groups one and two are candidates for the 1 pound a minute phone lines but this is, after all just another rip off. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. Jeremy Probably in QL Today. Do you subscribe to that? -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Roy wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], =?utf-8?B?XCJQaG9lYnVzIFIuIERva29zICjOps6/zq/Oss6/z4IgzqEuIM6dz4TPjA==?= =?utf-8?B?zrpcIlwizr/PgilcIg==?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP FOS Software does not mean Free Support if the dealer or creator doesn't intend it that way. Users that confuse the both need a quick lecture that's all... That was my point Marcel, Jochen and I choose to sell it. They know the price. Try arguing with the man at the petrol pump on a slack day or the supermarket checkout at night by saying - there are not many people buying why not halve the price. Sorry I misread the original there, -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
P Witte wrote: Jeremy Taffel writes: So, all I was saying is that I think that there could be a market beyond the one that seemingly (according to other emails) has reached saturation, and foolishly set myself up as a skinflint by offering myself as someone who fell into that market. I think it is perfectly valid to put the question although, of course, it is not our call to answer it. However, it doesnt appear to be the solution to the particular problem you pose: You wrote: As I said, I am only a casual user. If I needed it I could, of course afford it, but I don't. Any purchase would be purely out of curiosity, and once that had been satisfied I don't know whether I'd continue using it. So whats wrong with the demo version of QPC2? You can check out most of the new facilities and run most new programs. Enough to satisfy curiosity, I should think. No, not really, not without being able to save config files etc. Selling previous versions at a discount doesnt really help as it would become a logistical nightmare for programmers to support what would in effect be new platforms. I don't understand. What new platforms? Surely support is still provided for the previous versions; even if only yes that's a known problem, its fixed in the upgrade Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Roy wood wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. Jeremy Probably in QL Today. Do you subscribe to that? No ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 00:18 22/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: Roy wood wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. Jeremy Probably in QL Today. Do you subscribe to that? No __ Ich glaube es ist ausgekauft, Ich kann es nicht sehen bei http://www.j-m-s.de/index_e.htm -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.1 - Release Date: 20/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
For myself, I started QDT as an interesting project. Plus I really enjoy the people involved in the community. To be honest, I would have abandoned the project quite a while ago if I was only doing it for the money. Probably before it even started. On the other hand, while the money will never, ever compensate for the time or energy, it does show me that people respect the work and are interested in it. If no one was willing to pay what I consider to be a very underpriced cost for QDT, I would read it as no one appreciated the work being done. Therefore, it would not happen and further development would definitely not happen. So, while the money isn't everything, obviously, it definitely is something. Knowing the effort that goes into different QL software projects, I don't know of any that I would consider not to be fare value. And most are very good deals already. jim On Apr 21, 2005, at 5:08 AM, COLIN PARSONS wrote: The only way, taking a leaf from Linux, that it is going to increase it's market penetration is if it is freely available for download, under a GNU license. This is a bullet that has to be bitten, if there is to be any future for the platform! Very encouraging discussion ... how many new software products will people write for QDOS/SMSQ, being told they better give it away for free to stabilize their own future ...? Taking an example from the Linux community again, a LOT, if they have any real belief in the future of the platform. How many work in the QL sector for real monetary gain, rather than love of the product? Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
