Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
On Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 04:11:53PM -0600, Sean Reifschneider wrote: vmailmgr DOES work with RPMs. However, the CGI web interface that comes with it is incomplete to the point of not functioning. Add undocumented... I don't suppose you read the "vmailmgr-cgi.html" file, located both in the doc directory of the package and on the web site? I ended up having to dig through the code, and then modify the CGIs so I could even use them... I don't recall you ever posting any of the problems you've had to the mailing list. Or asking me, for that matter. Virtual domains are set up under a user account. Domain administration is done by providing that user's system password to the CGI. Naughty... As opposed to what? The user's account can be set up to have /bin/false as its login, so that the only thing that an attacker could do is play around with that one account's mailboxes. If it's the idea of sending passwords around on the Internet, vpopmail does the same thing, AFAIK. Use HTTPS if you're worried. No system access is required for virtual domains or their maintenance. This is misleading. Aside from creating and deleting virtual domains, vmailmgr can be managed completely through the web, either through the (admitedly limited) CGIs, or through oMail (using PHP), or through a custom PHP or Python (or C++) CGI interface if desired. Also, vpopmail has a nifty option where you can set up virtual IPs for each domain and vpopmail will resolve "user myname" correctly instead of requiring "user [EMAIL PROTECTED]"... Both vpopmail and vmailmgr have this feature, and have had it from the start. virtual users vmailmgr: virtual domains are hosted under a particular user id. Uses system password for CGI-access to virtual domain. In addition, each virtual user has a password, and that virtual user can manage their own account (change forwards, modify autoresponse, etc.) without going through the administrator. vpopmail: all virtuals stored under a single user ID/directory. Which to some has the implication that breaking that one user ID breaks all virtual user email on the system. quota support I believe both support quotas but I haven't used them. Yes. With vmailmgr, per-domain support is done through filesystem quotas, since each domain is a seperate user, and per-account is through an optional (included) add-on program. html-mail-administration vmailmgr: Non-functional demo CGIs provided, which require some time to install and get working. vpopmail: QMailAdmin is full-featured and works well. A separate package from the main vpopmail distribution. See above, this is misleading and rapidly changing. I tried looking at getting sqwebmail to use the vmailmgr authentication scheme, but didn't have any luck in the limited time I had to muck around with it. When I first looked at it, sqwebmail used compiled-in authentication modules, and included the code for vpopmail and not vmailmgr. I've heard, but haven't had time to investigate, that sqwebmail now uses the same auth modules as courier-imap does, in which case it should work fine with the vmailmgr auth module. -- Bruce Guenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://em.ca/~bruceg/ PGP signature
Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
As I have actually used both vmailmgr and vpopmail, I may be able to provide some comparison information. It boils down to: I've switched to using vpopmail these days. vpopmail doesn't have an RPM, which kind of sucks. Making an RPM is hard because vpopmail compiles the user ID of the "vpopmail" account into the binary. I started on some patches to fix this, but ran out of time. vmailmgr DOES work with RPMs. However, the CGI web interface that comes with it is incomplete to the point of not functioning. Add undocumented... I ended up having to dig through the code, and then modify the CGIs so I could even use them... Virtual domains are set up under a user account. Domain administration is done by providing that user's system password to the CGI. Naughty... vpopmail stores all the virtuals under a single "vpopmail" user home directory (or optionally in another location). No system access is required for virtual domains or their maintenance. Also, vpopmail has a nifty option where you can set up virtual IPs for each domain and vpopmail will resolve "user myname" correctly instead of requiring "user [EMAIL PROTECTED]"... virtual users vmailmgr: virtual domains are hosted under a particular user id. Uses system password for CGI-access to virtual domain. vpopmail: all virtuals stored under a single user ID/directory. databases for users and aliases Yes for both. pop access imap access I had no problems setting up POP or IMAP for either. quota support I believe both support quotas but I haven't used them. html-mail-administration vmailmgr: Non-functional demo CGIs provided, which require some time to install and get working. vpopmail: QMailAdmin is full-featured and works well. A separate package from the main vpopmail distribution. webmail I've had a hell of a time getting webmail going with vmailmgr. Most of them are overly complex to set up or require either PHP4 or a boatload of Perl modules. I've spent days trying out probably half a dozen or more different packages. IMP has a fairly complex setup, and just fell on it's face when I followed the install instructions. AeroMail isn't well maintained, but is VERY simple and easy to use. I spent hours trying to get a PHP4 RPM installed, and never could get one that was functional. I was able to get vpopmail and sqwebmail up and running rather quickly. I tried looking at getting sqwebmail to use the vmailmgr authentication scheme, but didn't have any luck in the limited time I had to muck around with it. I did not see webmail in the vmailmgr package, does sqwebmail run with the vmailmgr without problems? I wasn't able to get it to do so. It reads mail directly out of the Maildirs, so it doesn't use POP/IMAP for authentication. That means it has to support the vmailmgr auth scheme, which as far as I can tell it does not. Sean -- [...] who asked "Why do we do it, this science?" No one had an answer until I stood up and said "Isn't there money in a Nobel?" -- Steve Martin Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous [EMAIL PROTECTED] tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python
Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
On Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 04:11:53PM -0600, Sean Reifschneider wrote: html-mail-administration vmailmgr: Non-functional demo CGIs provided, which require some time to install and get working. well, there are not only the included CGI's : there is also omail-admin http://omail.omnis.ch and soon some python scripts. vpopmail: QMailAdmin is full-featured and works well. A separate package from the main vpopmail distribution. I don't see forwarders, quotas, expiration support in vpopmail-qmailadmin... On the other hand, mailing list support is missing in omail-admin. webmail I've had a hell of a time getting webmail going with vmailmgr. Most of them are overly complex to set up or require either PHP4 or a boatload of Perl modules. I've spent days trying out probably half a dozen or more different packages. IMP has a fairly complex setup, and just fell on it's There is omail-webmail http://webmail.omnis.ch/omail.pl?action=about with a lots of happy users... :) Regards, Olivier -- _ Olivier Mueller - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - PGPkeyID: 0E84D2EA - Switzerland PGP signature
Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
Sean Reifschneider wrote: As I have actually used both vmailmgr and vpopmail, I may be able to provide some comparison information. It boils down to: I've switched to using vpopmail these days. vpopmail doesn't have an RPM, which kind of sucks. Making an RPM is hard because vpopmail compiles the user ID of the "vpopmail" account into the binary. I started on some patches to fix this, but ran out of time. This can be solved, don't ask me how though. ;) Create a src rpm file, then it will build and install in one step or how ever it is setup. I have installed some programs on freebsd and openbsd with pkg_add (sort of like a rpm type installer) and it does it all from start to finish. I put pine on a openbsd box and used package add (pkg_add) it looked to see if it was available local then went to pine's ftp site (and mirrors) and fetched it, untar'd it made it, installed it and removed the .tar file. You can set it not to remove the downloaded file if you want. I imagine an RPM file could be setup the same way for vpopmail. -- Dale Miracle System Administrator Teoi Virtual Web Hosting
Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Clemens Hermann wrote: | Now I need to choose one of the two tools but I am not sure which would be | the better choice for my purpose. It would be great if someone could give me | a hint, I need the following things: | | virtual users We do this currently, with vmailmgr. | databases for users and aliases We do not do this currently with vmailmgr, altho it should be possible. | pop access We do this currently with vmailmgr. | imap access We do this currently with vmailmgr, and courier-imap -- which is written by Mr. Sam i believe. (inter7 guy) | quota support vmailmgr has support for quota built in, altho i dont use it. | html-mail-administration vmailmgr has this with oliver mueller(???)'s Omail. | webmail We use TWiG in conjunction with courier-imap and vmailmgr. Tho, many other combinations work flawlessly as well. | I did not see webmail in the vmailmgr package, does sqwebmail run with the | vmailmgr without problems? | Thanks in advance for any advice which of the two I should use | | Clemens Please note, i have no experience with the inter7 virtual package So it might be awesome. We've been using vmailmgrd and havent had a single problem in 2+ years, so we havent bothered to look at anything else. If it aint broke, dont fix it. -- ___ _ __ _ __ /___ ___ /__ John Gonzalez/Net.Tech __ __ \ __ \ __/_ __ `__ \/ __ /_ ___/ MDC Computers/netMDC! _ / / / `__/ /_ / / / / / / /_/ / / /__ (505)439-0200/fax-437-3052 /_/ /_/\___/\__/ /_/ /_/ /_/\__,_/ \___/ http://www.netmdc.com [-[system info]---] 8:10am up 8 days, 13:39, 5 users, load average: 0.09, 1.60, 1.88
Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:20:51AM +0200, Clemens Hermann wrote: there are two packages on the net fulfilling my needs - vmailmgr and the inter7 suite. Could one say that one of the two is "better"? So fare I use the "Bruce Guenther way" for virtual mailusers but not his package (only "natural" qmail) and I am really satisfied. Now I need to choose one of the two tools but I am not sure which would be the better choice for my purpose. It would be great if someone could give me a hint, I need the following things: virtual users Of course. databases for users and aliases Ours uses either CDB or GDBM tables for users. Patching it to use *SQL tables would not be difficult, but it hasn't been done yet. pop access imap access Of course. quota support Both per-domain and per-virtual-user is supported -- each domain is a seperate UID, so just put a filesystem quota on that user for per-domain quotas. html-mail-administration Several ways. The package comes with some simple CGIs, oMail is a PHP web administration package, and I just finished another one. webmail I did not see webmail in the vmailmgr package, does sqwebmail run with the vmailmgr without problems? You can do webmail through IMP or anything else that accesses IMAP. -- Bruce Guenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://em.ca/~bruceg/ PGP signature
Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:20:51AM +0200, Clemens Hermann wrote: Could one say that one of the two is "better"? So fare I use the "Bruce Guenther way" for virtual mailusers but not his package (only "natural" qmail) and I am really satisfied. I don't know the vpopmail suite real good, so I can only speak about vmailmgr ( http://www.vmailmgr.org ). virtual users yes, needing one unix account per mail domain (less if you are creating domain mappings) databases for users and aliases cdb format. administration from the shell, or using an interface (php or python) pop access imap access quota support everything supported, plus autoresponders and forwarders html-mail-administration There is currently my own project : omail-admin ( http://omail.omnis.ch/ ) which needs a webserver with php4 support. Online demo : http://admin.omnis.ch/admin2/ (test.com + test). There are also phython and C cgi's included in the package. webmail There are no official packages, but you can also use omail-webmail which supports vpopmail and vmailmgr systems : http://webmail.omnis.ch/omail.pl?action=about Good luck, and see you soon on the vmailmgr mailing list :) Olivier -- _ Olivier Mueller - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - PGPkeyID: 0E84D2EA - Switzerland PGP signature
Re: comparison vmailmgr - inter7
On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:20:51AM +0200, Clemens Hermann wrote: there are two packages on the net fulfilling my needs - vmailmgr and the inter7 suite. Could one say that one of the two is "better"? So fare I use the "Bruce Guenther way" for virtual mailusers but not his package (only "natural" qmail) and I am really satisfied. Now I need to choose one of the two tools but I am not sure which would be the better choice for my purpose. It would be great if someone could give me a hint, I need the following things: I am a fan of vpopmail by Inter7. virtual users Of course. Single UID/GID databases for users and aliases CDB or MySQL. Decide at compile time. I believe you can mix and match... pop access Of course. imap access Supported natively by Mr. Sam's excellent Courier-IMAP package. We use both IMAP and POP3 at the ISP where I work. quota support Yep. html-mail-administration qmailadmin, also by Inter7, is a full-featured admin package for vpopmail. webmail U... I think there are three or four that Inter7 recommends and work with native support for Vpop. There was one written in house here before I converted to vpop, so I haven't tried any of the others. For me, another big plus of vpopmail is the outstanding support from Ken Jones and the rest of the crew at Inter7. On a couple of occasions I have reported bugs to the list and had patches within six hours. There are, of course, very active mailing lists for vpopmail and qmailadmin. Ben -- Ben Beuchler [EMAIL PROTECTED] MAILER-DAEMON (612) 321-9290 x101 Bitstream Underground www.bitstream.net
