Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Jim,, I have brain damage and I still can't figure out what your arguement is? You just keep saying everyone is wrong. No IV clinics now? Keep embryos frozen? How many chickens do eat for breakfast? I use to call 'm eggs. Can't tell when a rooster gets loose, huh? john In a message dated 7/20/2006 7:11:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think both are wrong. I don't think they should have created them in the first place for IVF, but since they exist then keep them on life support (i.e. frozen) indefinitely. They are not something that should be killed (i.e. by removing stem cells) to possibly make another persons life better. I have a moral problem with taking one life to improve another persons life.Embryos left over from IVF are not the only source for stem cells. (2006.06.27: Research on Alternative Sources of Pluripotent Stem Cells, http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t060627.html )So I feel those sources should pursued since there would be no moral or ethical concerns. I'm all for scientific advancement that does not conflict with my morals and ethics. At 12:47 PM 7/20/2006, RollinOn wrote: Let me get this straight, if you throw the embryos in the trash they're called left over waste.If you research them, your killing human beings. Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.orgPlease Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Without a womb its just a bacterial gue on the floor. john In a message dated 7/20/2006 3:34:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: no, an individual sperm only contains 23 chromosomes need to be human. That is where I draw the line. It's a human when a human egg and human sperm combine to have the 46 chromosomes need to be human. It may seem ridiculous to you but It's basic biology. You apparently think it takes longer in the development cycle to be considered a human. At 11:48 AM 7/20/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we talk about the "potential" of 5-day old, 200 cell, unimplanted zygotes, then let's talk about the "potential" of an individual sperm. Isn't it the same potential? Where do you draw the line? It's really pretty ridiculous. It's time to use common sense. Those ready-for-destruction zygotes should be used, it's immoral not to. Sandy Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.orgPlease Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed- (lets pray not)
The federal gov't is funding 25million. the stem cell lines the feds insist to be used are contaminated and useless. People wouldn't starve in california of they werent anorexic or bulemic. Maybe stem cell theray will cure that? john In a message dated 7/20/2006 2:43:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since you want to compare Bush to Hitler and said it took several nations to prove him wrong...As far as standard of morality when it comes to doing medical research on human embryos, as far as I have been able to find so correct me if I am mistaken, Canada and the European Nation countries also do not fund research on human embryos. Only China and South Korea do.Bush only put a restriction on federal funding when it comes using human embryos. He did not outlaw there use. The federal gov't is funding a few hundred million in stem cell research. This bill would not have increased that amount. The state of California alone is funding $6 billion in human embryonic stem cell research. That $6 billion in California tax payer dollars could have been spent to feed the hungry you mentioned but the California voters decided that funding stem cell research was more important. So the hungry, sick and poor have to live with the moral standards of not one person but of the 7,009,814 people in California who voted for Proposition 71: Stem Cell Research. Funding. Bonds, not the 4,859,401 who voted against it.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
What disease or ailment was ever cured by the church? Relkigion only tells you who to hate, not how to get better. john In a message dated 7/20/2006 1:54:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (O'C, I'm copying this from comments I made on another list to respond to you)At 07:35 PM 7/19/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where were these EXTRA embryos headed otherwise Jim? I thought 'we' were going to try to use these EXTRA embryos that were going to be destroyed for medical research BEFORE we destroyed them. I thought 'we' were going to make eyeballs, kidneys, and neurons with these stem cells before we flushed the leftovers. I'm sure I'm missing something here. Please fill in the blanks.O'CI've never thought of myself as part of the "Christian Right" as you say (I am a Roman Catholic) but agree with president Bush on this and I will explain way.I do belive that a human egg and human sperm make a human being from the time they are joined, from that point the zygote contains all the 46 chromosomes need to be human. It's called an embryo after about 10 days. Being a human, it is entitled to protection to life from the Government. Therefore, the Government should not be funding the destruction of life for the purpose of research.Now your opinion of when a human is a human and entitled to protection obviously differs from mine and president Bush. You can decide for yourself when a human becomes a human that is entitled to protection. Some people thing after birth and not before. I'm against IVF treatments as well because it creates extra embryos in the process. As for using those extra embryos in research for the possible benefit of others, just because they are going to be destroyed anyway, following that reasoning, here's my problem with that. A person with a traumatic brain injury or in a coma being kept alive on ventilator will never be completely healed and will die without the life-support, so why not harvest their body parts to improve someone else's life? I see both equally wrong. The Nazi's conducted medical research on the people they were going to kill anyway. I see it as the same.Now, if scientist want to use stem cells derived from a human egg and another cell, somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT), I don't consider that a human and have no problem with research on those stem cells.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
What BS! The NIH also claims there is 22 existing stem cell lines that can be purchased to use to study. These stem cell lines where all contaminated by 2001. But they will still sell you the left over slime. Right now several scientists at several large universities are gathering embroyonic stem cells from monkeys, dogs and cats, so they can develope therapies to use on humans after Bush is gone. I do hope the advances that come from this are denied to the morons that fight so hard to stop it. Most of the therapies are at advanced stages. Remember, Vote NO on right wing religous fundamentalism. john In a message dated 7/20/2006 1:34:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's not completely accurate, see the NIH funding guidelines regarding "What if a scientist is conducting research with both federally fundable and non-federally fundable human embryonic stem cells?"http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/faqs.asp At 06:39 AM 7/20/2006, Bill_J wrote: Bush did kill research on embryonic stem cells to this extent: ANY institution, public or private, that receives government money for any reason CAN NOT use embryos for stem cell research or they would forfiet the government money. This means any university that accepts students on government grants or loans, any drug company that recieves government money for R&D of ANY kind; "any form of government funding" disqualifies nearly everyone.
Re: [QUAD-L] BAG BALM- LANTISEPTIC
How do you use it? Stacy - Original Message - From: David K. Kelmer To: Lori Michaelson ; Quad-List Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] BAG BALM- LANTISEPTIC Hi Lori, It sure has, and an ass is a terrible thing to lose! With Love, CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 30 Years PostTexas, USA Lori Michaelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: LANTISEPTIC HAS SAVED MY [AND Dave K's] ASS -- LITERALLY. Bag balm toughens skin. ---Original Message--- From: Danny Hearn Date: 7/15/2006 5:38:55 PM To: Tim Syfert; quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Wal Mart and Made in America and so on. Hi, Tim I heard of that bag balm from someone in the room, I bought mine at WALGEENS tho lol It is pretty good stuff, also someone else in here, Dave I think told me of another cream called Lanaceptic or something like that that is a good product too.Tim Syfert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: HI wonder where my Wal-Mart Bag Balm is made. Danny Hearn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Many on this list may not be aware but today with Modern Technology and a WORLD GLOBAL TRADE and Economy there is not much MADE IN AMERICA exclusivly so much anymore..heck even many so called American Cars have more FOREIGN PARTS than very many of the FOREIGN made cars ... LOL this may be a sad fact but true, DO you know that EVEN our AMERICAN FLAG is FOREIN MADE in ( China ) and other countries.??? Dan** Do you Yahoo!?Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
The last cure medicine came thru massive gov't effort. Remember polio. Yup. Last time medicine cured anything. Of course, people still refude the vaccine for their children because it would be God's will if they became infected. You don't see many refusing penecillan to fight syphilus, even tho several churches denounced it for destroying a curse from god. Our president has signed 10 billion in research for a "small" thermo-neuclear device as a bunker vaporizer. How freakin humane can this SOB get? It is only immoral to kill people untill they are able to to be terrified by their demise? Our president won't burn in hell, he is Satan! john In a message dated 7/19/2006 11:47:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 7/19/2006 10:44:08 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Most cures in this country have been discovered through R&D of private companies in the perseverance of medical scientists and doctors funded by private donations. T. Houston C5 C6 That I could agree on, if they applied the same principles to war. Keep all government money out of it. (I'm only wishing, lol) W
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
he just made it impossible to do stem cell research in a facility that accepts gov't funding. A little technicallity that makes 97% of the medical fasilities in the US unavailable for this research.I hope he watches his children die of a slow debiltating disease that would have been curable in 5 years. john In a message dated 7/19/2006 11:44:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: George Bush did not kill research on stem cells, he just refused to fund it with taxpayers money. Like many other sickness and diseases, researchers continuing on with private donations and private fundraisers. Any person who wants to sit around and wait for the government to take action on important issues that they may benefit from I suggest is wasting their time. Most cures in this country have been discovered through R&D of private companies in the perseverance of medical scientists and doctors funded by private donations. T. Houston C5 C6
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
The "moral" right have hijacked the republicans and turned them into idiots. If using embryonic stem cells is killing life then is washing them down the drain holding them in high esteem. By Bushes reasoning we should be closing invitro-fertilization clinics. Fat chance. Who are the boobs, morons, mental defectives and slack jawed mouth breathers that follow him in his fear of science, logic and history. john In a message dated 7/19/2006 6:35:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sad isn't it. Mark ---Original Message--- From: ALAN LABARR Date: 07/19/06 17:33:33 To: RollinOn; Quad List; Rick Caseltine Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed yes, mark. right on. whatever rove says, bush does. that's why they won't let him speak on his own. look what happens when he gets caught speaking without a rove script. he gets caught saying sh*t. alan - Original Message - From: RollinOn To: Quad List ; Rick Caseltine Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed What a f...ing hypocritical moron we have leading us! He can drop bombs on innocent women and children and systematically lie to the whole world but this is "Morally Wrong"! We need a leader! Mark ---Original Message--- From: Rick Caseltine Date: 07/19/06 16:06:08 To: Quad List Subject: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed Bush uses first-ever veto to kill stem cell bill 32 minutes ago WASHINGTON (AFP) - USPresident George W. Bush used his veto for the first time since taking office, blocking a bill that would have expanded federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said in remarks at the White House, saying that in rejecting the legislation he is "keeping the promise I made to the American people. "As science brings us ever closer to unlocking the secrets of human biology, it also offers temptations to manipulate human life and violate human dignity," said Bush. "Our conscience and history as a nation demand that we resist this temptation," Bush said. The stem cell research endorsed by the Senate on Tuesday would have used embryos -- some consisting of just a handful of cells -- left over from in vitro fertilization (IVF) procedures. The president had long vowed to veto the bill because of his deeply held moral beliefs that destroying human life is wrong -- even in its earliest form, and even in the interest of research that could lead to potentially life-saving medical breakthroughs. Bush made the announcement at a White House signing ceremony for alternative bioethics legislation known as "The Fetus Farming Prohibition Act," making it a crime to initiate a pregnancy for the sole purpose of obtaining human organs or tissue for research. Present for the announcement were several families with "snowflake babies" -- children conceived via donated embryos left over from IVF treatments. The president vetoed the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act despite widespread support by the US public and ardent backers in Congress, who on Wednesday urged Bush to reconsider his stance. Stem cell research advocates say the technique shows promise for the treatment of degenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and for diabetes. The bill would have lifted rules set by Bush in 2001 making federal funds available only for research on a small number of embryonic stem cell lines which existed at that time. Government money is barred from supporting work on new lines derived from human embryos -- a restriction that opponents say hampers overall research. In London, Martin Rees, the president of the Royal Society -- Britain's de facto academy of sciences -- said the US policy "is slowing down the global effort to develop therapies for a range of diseases and illnesses." "If the present restrictions remain, it would surely mean that the United States will continue to fall behind in this important and exciting area," said Rees. The Senate approved the measure by a 63-37 vote -- a margin too small to override a presidential veto. Nevertheless, 41 Senate Democrats sent a letter to Majority Leader Bill Frist, urging him to lobby support among congressional Republicans to overturn Bush's veto. "We are pleased that you supported this important legislation and know that you recognize the enormous potential of this research for discovering new cures and therapies for diseases such as diabetes, Parkinsons disease and spinal cord injuries. "The only chance for overriding this veto rests with you and the Republican caucuses in the House and the Senate. "Millions of patients and their families across the nation cannot afford to wait any longer for the enactment of this urgently needed legislation," the Democratic lawmakers wrote. "We are counting on your leadership to help ensure that this legislation becomes la
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
I beg to differ with you,I am not living for the cure,I am living life to the hilt.Why not help many people with a myriad of mind and mobility issues?Let's get busy researching stem cells insteading of discarding them.I need to go now.I will be able to discuss this issue at any time. Keep on rollin' and let's start opening up all that stem cells have to offer. Peace, Paul -- Original message -- From: Jim Lubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think both are wrong. I don't think they should have created them in the first place for IVF, but since they exist then keep them on life support (i.e. frozen) indefinitely. They are not something that should be killed (i.e. by removing stem cells) to possibly make another persons life better. I have a moral problem with taking one life to improve another persons life.Embryos left over from IVF are not the only source for stem cells. (2006.06.27: Research on Alternative Sources of Pluripotent Stem Cells, http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t060627.html )So I feel those sources should pursued since there would be no moral or ethical concerns. I'm all for scientific advancement that does not conf! lict wi th my morals and ethics. At 12:47 PM 7/20/2006, RollinOn wrote: Let me get this straight, if you throw the embryos in the trash they're called left over waste.If you research them, your killing human beings. Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.orgPlease Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
[QUAD-L] stem cells
That's my problem too Mark. Kill the embryo today and it's ok, kill it next week and it's murder. Not in MY book. Now to clarify another point, I believe that a soul does not enter an embryo until it draws it's first breath. That would be when it is born and sufficiently mature to breathe. Killing a human with no soul is slightly less 'evil' that killing one with a soul. I also believe that our creator is marveling at our ability to manipulate HIS building blocks to make up for HIS oversights. The spinal cord is definitely an inferior design compared with some of nature's regenerative components. I'm sure HE is smiling and wondering what we will come up with next - after all, we are using the brain HE gave us. I personally don't think HE's all that with us recycling physical parts since we haven't a clue how to tinker with the spiritual part,. yet. Maybe HE will make HIS wishes known if and when we get there. O'C In a message dated 7/20/2006 12:47:38 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let me get this straight, if you throw the embryos in the trash they're called left over waste. If you research them, your killing human beings. Mark Dave www.daveoconnell.com c3-inc-1967
Re: [QUAD-L] About therapy
Nobody thot rats cats and dogs would walk again either.. john In a message dated 7/18/2006 7:32:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Ive been a c7 quad for 9 years, 7 of those I have do 3 hours therapy every tues and thurs. Im strong as hell, but Im not going to walk away, at least anytime soon. If I had the chance for stem cells or any possible therapy to get on my feet or better myself I would take it. I would work 24 hours a day if I thought I could get better. But the truth is stem cells are many years away from helping any of us old time quads. Its going to help the freshly injured way b4 it helps us. Another fact is people that have healthy families dont care about paralyzed individuals, and many of them feel we brought this on ourselves or werent right with god. So enjoy the small things we have left and build on them. Dont get caught up in the hope game, give yourself the best life you can by getting out there and doing something to make you feel worthwhile. If a cure comes..youll hear about it. Remember noone gets out of here alive, and the so called able bodied are only that way for a time. Everything has a duration period. Even the most gorgeous blonde will dry up and get old. We are all equals and deserve to live and enjoy life, get out and demand yours. Dont let any red tape or bad attitudes stop you. Ron c7
Re: [QUAD-L] I Wonder Why
GO FOR IT sANDY! NOBODY CAN KILL A SUBJECT. JUST TRY NOT TO USE PERSONAL INSULTS ABOUT ANTI SCIENCE FOLKS...LOL john In a message dated 7/18/2006 5:43:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dave, you said "For the sake of peace on the List, we have put the issue to rest in our posts for now". Maybe you can explain that. What "peace"? And who are "we"? Personally I would rather talk about stem cells and other issues pertinent to quads than Walmart. Maybe I'm at the wrong place. Tell me and I will leave. Sorry if I offended anyone by talking about something I thought was important to us. Sandy
Re: [QUAD-L]---Thanks!
Wow, Carol! You sound awesome. I don't think I've read your posts before. How long have you been gone? To introduce myself, I am Tracy in Texas. c5/6 also. I live alone and believe that next to a great family, my aides are my greatest blessing. Hope to read more from you! Tracy
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
I think both are wrong. I don't think they should have created them in the first place for IVF, but since they exist then keep them on life support (i.e. frozen) indefinitely. They are not something that should be killed (i.e. by removing stem cells) to possibly make another persons life better. I have a moral problem with taking one life to improve another persons life. Embryos left over from IVF are not the only source for stem cells. (2006.06.27: Research on Alternative Sources of Pluripotent Stem Cells, http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t060627.html ) So I feel those sources should pursued since there would be no moral or ethical concerns. I'm all for scientific advancement that does not conflict with my morals and ethics. At 12:47 PM 7/20/2006, RollinOn wrote: Let me get this straight, if you throw the embryos in the trash they're called left over waste. If you research them, your killing human beings. Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org Please Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
Re: [QUAD-L] I Wonder Why
i like the way you think, angelique. you too, sandy. alan - Original Message - From: Angelique Novak To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Quad List Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] I Wonder Why Good for you Sandy! I'm with ya! If Christianity wasn't holding everything back, there probably would've been a cure by now. I'm sure this will get some "interesting" feedback, but f*ck it! Christianity is the worst thing to happen to the human race. If Jesus existed, he was an alien, face it. Immaculate conception? Try alien abduction and implantation! The church always has been a business, and a front for "justifiable" murders. Hello, Spanish Inquisition. It always will be about money and control. The holy rollers have held medical science back long enough! Let stem cell research of any kind happen. I'd donate my eggs! As far as I'm concerned, being trapped inside your body, looking out from behind your eyes is hell! Besides, (if you believe Christian mythology), isn't saying, "I'm sorry," before dying, all it takes to still get passed the pearly gates, no matter how horrible a person you were? That's how I remember most church sermons going. So what's the big deal?! YES ON HR 810! -Angelique [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I wish I was part of that conversation. It seems people have become numb since then. I have watched and waited for a long time... and nothing. I read about the work in China and thought "nope". Any time a scientist is secretive about his methods, it raises a red flag. But Johns Hopkins work is a completely new ball game. This is the first true research that could make a difference. This ain't no sham! So if I'm excited about it, f**k everyone else. I have hope in my lifetime. Sandy
[QUAD-L] Quad Pres.
I love the claim, "just elect someone who will do what you want." like that's a quick fix. There are lots of stories and promises before the election that are never heard of again. Campaign promises are so easy to make and so tough to follow up on. The concept that absolute power corrupts absolutely has lots of stops along the way. What we REALLY need is an SCI president or someone in his family. A lot of war vets are getting to be the right age.. maybe .. O'C In a message dated 7/20/2006 10:27:18 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wrong. Just like the tax payers during the cold war that didn't like their tax money being spent to build nuclear weapons. It's up to our elected officials, like it or not.At 08:20 AM 7/20/2006, RollinOn wrote: You're forgetting something very important.It's not George Bush's money, it's my money and every other tax payer's money and they decided it was ok to use our money to research stem cell lines that aren't available with out signing this bill.It is the tax payers right to choose how they spend their money or am I wrong? Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.orgPlease Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling Dave www.daveoconnell.com c3-inc-1967
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
If we talk about the "potential" of 5-day old, 200 cell, unimplanted zygotes, then let's talk about the "potential" of an individual sperm. Isn't it the same potential? Where do you draw the line? It's really pretty ridiculous. It's time to use common sense. Those ready-for-destruction zygotes should be used, it's immoral not to. Sandy
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
That's my problem too Mark. Kill the embryo today and it's ok, kill it next week and it's murder. Not in MY book. Now to clarify another point, I believe that a soul does not enter an embryo until it draws it's first breath. That would be when it is born and sufficiently mature to breathe. Killing a human with no soul is slightly less 'evil' that killing one with a soul. I also believe that our creator is marveling at our ability to manipulate HIS building blocks to make up for HIS oversights. The spinal cord is definitely an inferior design compared with some of nature's regenerative components. I'm sure HE is smiling and wondering what we will come up with next - after all, we are using the brain HE gave us. I personally don't think HE's all that with us recycling physical parts since we haven't a clue how to tinker with the spiritual part,. yet. Maybe HE will make HIS wishes known if and when we get there. O'C In a message dated 7/20/2006 12:47:38 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let me get this straight, if you throw the embryos in the trash they're called left over waste. If you research them, your killing human beings. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 07/20/06 12:54:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed (O'C, I'm copying this from comments I made on another list to respond to you)At 07:35 PM 7/19/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where were these EXTRA embryos headed otherwise Jim? I thought 'we' were going to try to use these EXTRA embryos that were going to be destroyed for medical research BEFORE we destroyed them. I thought 'we' were going to make eyeballs, kidneys, and neurons with these stem cells before we flushed the leftovers. I'm sure I'm missing something here. Please fill in the blanks.O'CI've never thought of myself as part of the "Christian Right" as you say (I am a Roman Catholic) but agree with president Bush on this and I will explain way.I do belive that a human egg and human sperm make a human being from the time they are joined, from that point the zygote contains all the 46 chromosomes need to be human. It's called an embryo after about 10 days. Being a human, it is entitled to protection to life from the Government. Therefore, the Government should not be funding the destruction of life for the purpose of research.Now your opinion of when a human is a human and entitled to protection obviously differs from mine and president Bush. You can decide for yourself when a human becomes a human that is entitled to protection. Some people thing after birth and not before. I'm against IVF treatments as well because it creates extra embryos in the process. As for using those extra embryos in research for the possible benefit of others, just because they are going to be destroyed anyway, following that reasoning, here's my problem with that. A person with a traumatic brain injury or in a coma being kept alive on ventilator will never be completely healed and will die without the life-support, so why not harvest their body parts to improve someone else's life? I see both equally wrong. The Nazi's conducted medical research on the people they were going to kill anyway. I see it as the same.Now, if scientist want to use stem cells derived from a human egg and another cell, somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT), I don't consider that a human and have no problem with research on those stem cells. Dave www.daveoconnell.com c3-inc-1967
Re: [QUAD-L] deep thoughts...sorta
Bravo Brien well said ... Zeraw T-10 T-11 21 YEARS POST A spinal cord injury may seem horrific to most people (Indeed it is). But, consider this scenario:After my injury, I spent five months in rehabilitation. In the 2nd month of my rehabilitation my cousin was diagnosed with some pervasive lung disease. Four months into my rehabilitation my cousin died. When I look back on my perspective, being mindful of the trauma surrounding my cousin and his family and friends, my injury seemed to be far less traumatic.Brien
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Let me get this straight, if you throw the embryos in the trash they're called left over waste. If you research them, your killing human beings. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 07/20/06 12:54:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed (O'C, I'm copying this from comments I made on another list to respond to you)At 07:35 PM 7/19/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where were these EXTRA embryos headed otherwise Jim? I thought 'we' were going to try to use these EXTRA embryos that were going to be destroyed for medical research BEFORE we destroyed them. I thought 'we' were going to make eyeballs, kidneys, and neurons with these stem cells before we flushed the leftovers. I'm sure I'm missing something here. Please fill in the blanks.O'CI've never thought of myself as part of the "Christian Right" as you say (I am a Roman Catholic) but agree with president Bush on this and I will explain way.I do belive that a human egg and human sperm make a human being from the time they are joined, from that point the zygote contains all the 46 chromosomes need to be human. It's called an embryo after about 10 days. Being a human, it is entitled to protection to life from the Government. Therefore, the Government should not be funding the destruction of life for the purpose of research.Now your opinion of when a human is a human and entitled to protection obviously differs from mine and president Bush. You can decide for yourself when a human becomes a human that is entitled to protection. Some people thing after birth and not before. I'm against IVF treatments as well because it creates extra embryos in the process. As for using those extra embryos in research for the possible benefit of others, just because they are going to be destroyed anyway, following that reasoning, here's my problem with that. A person with a traumatic brain injury or in a coma being kept alive on ventilator will never be completely healed and will die without the life-support, so why not harvest their body parts to improve someone else's life? I see both equally wrong. The Nazi's conducted medical research on the people they were going to kill anyway. I see it as the same.Now, if scientist want to use stem cells derived from a human egg and another cell, somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT), I don't consider that a human and have no problem with research on those stem cells.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Potential is the key word - whether 23 or 46 chromosomes.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Both of these are a potential human because either one still needs help to get there. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 07/20/06 14:34:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed no, an individual sperm only contains 23 chromosomes need to be human. That is where I draw the line. It's a human when a human egg and human sperm combine to have the 46 chromosomes need to be human. It may seem ridiculous to you but It's basic biology. You apparently think it takes longer in the development cycle to be considered a human. At 11:48 AM 7/20/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we talk about the "potential" of 5-day old, 200 cell, unimplanted zygotes, then let's talk about the "potential" of an individual sperm. Isn't it the same potential? Where do you draw the line? It's really pretty ridiculous. It's time to use common sense. Those ready-for-destruction zygotes should be used, it's immoral not to. Sandy Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.orgPlease Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
Re: [QUAD-L] deep thoughts...sorta
A spinal cord injury may seem horrific to most people (Indeed it is). But, consider this scenario: After my injury, I spent five months in rehabilitation. In the 2nd month of my rehabilitation my cousin was diagnosed with some pervasive lung disease. Four months into my rehabilitation my cousin died. When I look back on my perspective, being mindful of the trauma surrounding my cousin and his family and friends, my injury seemed to be far less traumatic. Brien On Jul 19, 2006, at 1:26 PM, William Willis wrote: Someone asked me the other day if I would trade my eyes for a new body. After a bit of thought, I said no, even though I could likely be more independent. Interesting thought: Life is a road with infini-te lanes. We all travel this road to the same destination. However, we all change lanes many times. Some lanes are for speeders, some are dangerous, some are congested, and some are littered with wrecks. And of course, the lane next to us always moves faster and more smoothly...until we merge into it! The final destination? Well, we won't know until we get there.
[QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed- (lets pray not)
lol. Hitler was the first one I could think of he always seems to be the one, but we know the experiments that were done by the Japanese during WWII. On issues like this, I always wish that I had the wisdom of Solomon before I tried to elaborate on sensitive subjects. There are some very well educated, wise and smart people on both sides of this issue fighting for the cause. I just hope the decisions we suppose are the right ones. If not W In a message dated 7/20/2006 2:03:26 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since you want to compare Bush to Hitler and said it took several nations to prove him wrong...As far as standard of morality when it comes to doing medical research on human embryos, as far as I have been able to find so correct me if I am mistaken, Canada and the European Nation countries also do not fund research on human embryos. Only China and South Korea do.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
no, an individual sperm only contains 23 chromosomes need to be human. That is where I draw the line. It's a human when a human egg and human sperm combine to have the 46 chromosomes need to be human. It may seem ridiculous to you but It's basic biology. You apparently think it takes longer in the development cycle to be considered a human. At 11:48 AM 7/20/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we talk about the "potential" of 5-day old, 200 cell, unimplanted zygotes, then let's talk about the "potential" of an individual sperm. Isn't it the same potential? Where do you draw the line? It's really pretty ridiculous. It's time to use common sense. Those ready-for-destruction zygotes should be used, it's immoral not to. Sandy Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org Please Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
[QUAD-L] Carol
Welcome back to the list! Glad you made it through those difficulties and I hope you remain with us for a long time. StephanieSwamp Sista http://360.yahoo.com/curly_top35
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Hi Bill, This is the key issue, to me, in the whole embryonic stem cell debate. Some people say that an embryonic stem cell might be used too help bring about medical cures for mankind, and other people say that using a stem cell from an embryo is degrading human life and can't be used for medical research. Then most of these embryos are disposed of down the drain, while continuing to make more embryos at fertility clinics every day. I just can't get my mind around that reasoning. With Love, CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 30 Years PostTexas, USA Bill_J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Wheel can certainly speak for himself/herself. I think there are people who (20 years from now) might come down with ALS or Parkinson's that would disagree. The bill would not kill recent embryos for stem cell research. It was proposing they use the embryos destined to be destroyed anyway to be used. Bill age 55C6 Incomplete since 7/20/68Leesburg, FLFor every action, there is an equal and opposite government program.- Original Message - From: Jim Lubin To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; quad-list@eskimo.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed Care to explain that? Death is certain for everyone. Stem cells from human embryos may have the potential to make life better for some but they won't make anyone immortal. Seems to me if he had signed it then it would have meant he had chosen certain death for those embryos funded by the government. At 05:04 PM 7/19/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bush has once again demonstrated bad judgement. He has chosen certain death for some Americans to have money saved for the destruction of another government.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed- (lets pray not)
Since you want to compare Bush to Hitler and said it took several nations to prove him wrong... As far as standard of morality when it comes to doing medical research on human embryos, as far as I have been able to find so correct me if I am mistaken, Canada and the European Nation countries also do not fund research on human embryos. Only China and South Korea do. Bush only put a restriction on federal funding when it comes using human embryos. He did not outlaw there use. The federal gov't is funding a few hundred million in stem cell research. This bill would not have increased that amount. The state of California alone is funding $6 billion in human embryonic stem cell research. That $6 billion in California tax payer dollars could have been spent to feed the hungry you mentioned but the California voters decided that funding stem cell research was more important. So the hungry, sick and poor have to live with the moral standards of not one person but of the 7,009,814 people in California who voted for Proposition 71: Stem Cell Research. Funding. Bonds, not the 4,859,401 who voted against it. At 08:32 PM 7/19/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its sad to think that our government is establishing the standards for morality. Its a shame that we have to live by the morality of one person, while others go to bed this very evening hungry, sick and poor. It almost happened today,except for the stroke of a pen that might have helped someone's dream. It happened because a single person felt it was the moral thing to do. Hitler, in his own way also felt that he was only doing the moral thing. It took several nations to prove him wrong. Let's pray that not one of us should die before our time because of a stroke of a pen. Granted, we won't all live forever, but we all deserve a fair chance. Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org Please Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
I believe our elected officials passed this bill by a majority because the tax payers were in favor of it and giving one man the right to dictate what we want is dangerous business and I personally think it needs to go. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 07/20/06 12:26:33 To: RollinOn; quad-list@eskimo.com; tahouston Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed Wrong. Just like the tax payers during the cold war that didn't like their tax money being spent to build nuclear weapons. It's up to our elected officials, like it or not.At 08:20 AM 7/20/2006, RollinOn wrote: You're forgetting something very important.It's not George Bush's money, it's my money and every other tax payer's money and they decided it was ok to use our money to research stem cell lines that aren't available with out signing this bill.It is the tax payers right to choose how they spend their money or am I wrong? Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.orgPlease Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
Re: [QUAD-L] What would you like on your pizza?
yes, bobbie, i am with you. is this the kessler in west orange? i was in kessler in east orange. 25 years ago. alan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] What would you like on your pizza? I'm going to be participating in a SCI study at Kessler August 2nd. A very good friend of mind, a c 2,3 quad, DR Karen Hwang is running the study. She e-mailed all six of us and asked "What toppings would you like on the pizza I'm providing"? I said "I would like stem cells on my pizza" LOL What would you guys like on your pizza's? Bobbie
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
(O'C, I'm copying this from comments I made on another list to respond to you) At 07:35 PM 7/19/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where were these EXTRA embryos headed otherwise Jim? I thought 'we' were going to try to use these EXTRA embryos that were going to be destroyed for medical research BEFORE we destroyed them. I thought 'we' were going to make eyeballs, kidneys, and neurons with these stem cells before we flushed the leftovers. I'm sure I'm missing something here. Please fill in the blanks. O'C I've never thought of myself as part of the "Christian Right" as you say (I am a Roman Catholic) but agree with president Bush on this and I will explain way. I do belive that a human egg and human sperm make a human being from the time they are joined, from that point the zygote contains all the 46 chromosomes need to be human. It's called an embryo after about 10 days. Being a human, it is entitled to protection to life from the Government. Therefore, the Government should not be funding the destruction of life for the purpose of research. Now your opinion of when a human is a human and entitled to protection obviously differs from mine and president Bush. You can decide for yourself when a human becomes a human that is entitled to protection. Some people thing after birth and not before. I'm against IVF treatments as well because it creates extra embryos in the process. As for using those extra embryos in research for the possible benefit of others, just because they are going to be destroyed anyway, following that reasoning, here's my problem with that. A person with a traumatic brain injury or in a coma being kept alive on ventilator will never be completely healed and will die without the life-support, so why not harvest their body parts to improve someone else's life? I see both equally wrong. The Nazi's conducted medical research on the people they were going to kill anyway. I see it as the same. Now, if scientist want to use stem cells derived from a human egg and another cell, somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT), I don't consider that a human and have no problem with research on those stem cells.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
You're forgetting something very important. It's not George Bush's money, it's my money and every other tax payer's money and they decided it was ok to use our money to research stem cell lines that aren't available with out signing this bill. It is the tax payers right to choose how they spend their money or am I wrong? Mark ---Original Message--- From: tahouston Date: 07/19/06 22:44:36 To: quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed George Bush did not kill research on stem cells, he just refused to fund it with taxpayers money. Like many other sickness and diseases, researchers continuing on with private donations and private fundraisers. Any person who wants to sit around and wait for the government to take action on important issues that they may benefit from I suggest is wasting their time. Most cures in this country have been discovered through R&D of private companies in the perseverance of medical scientists and doctors funded by private donations. T. Houston C5 C6 - Original Message - From: Rick Caseltine To: Quad List Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:50 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed Bush uses first-ever veto to kill stem cell bill 32minutes ago WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bushused his veto for the first time since taking office,blocking a bill that would have expanded federalfunding for embryonic stem cell research. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent societyneeds to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said inremarks at the White House, saying that in rejectingthe legislation he is "keeping the promise I made tothe American people."As science brings us ever closer to unlocking thesecrets of human biology, it also offers temptationsto manipulate human life and violate human dignity,"said Bush."Our conscience and history as a nation demand that weresist this temptation," Bush said.The stem cell research endorsed by the Senate onTuesday would have used embryos -- some consisting ofjust a handful of cells -- left over from in vitrofertilization (IVF) procedures.The president had long vowed to veto the bill becauseof his deeply held moral beliefs that destroying humanlife is wrong -- even in its earliest form, and evenin the interest of research that could lead topotentially life-saving medical breakthroughs.Bush made the announcement at a White House signingceremony for alternative bioethics legislation knownas "The Fetus Farming Prohibition Act," making it acrime to initiate a pregnancy for the sole purpose ofobtaining human organs or tissue for research.Present for the announcement were several familieswith "snowflake babies" -- children conceived viadonated embryos left over from IVF treatments.The president vetoed the Stem Cell ResearchEnhancement Act despite widespread support by the USpublic and ardent backers in Congress, who onWednesday urged Bush to reconsider his stance.Stem cell research advocates say the technique showspromise for the treatment of degenerative diseasessuch as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and for diabetes.The bill would have lifted rules set by Bush in 2001making federal funds available only for research on asmall number of embryonic stem cell lines whichexisted at that time.Government money is barred from supporting work on newlines derived from human embryos -- a restriction thatopponents say hampers overall research.In London, Martin Rees, the president of the RoyalSociety -- Britain's de facto academy of sciences --said the US policy "is slowing down the global effortto develop therapies for a range of diseases andillnesses.""If the present restrictions remain, it would surelymean that the United States will continue to fallbehind in this important and exciting area," saidRees.The Senate approved the measure by a 63-37 vote -- amargin too small to override a presidential veto.Nevertheless, 41 Senate Democrats sent a letter toMajority Leader Bill Frist, urging him to lobbysupport among congressional Republicans to overturnBush's veto."We are pleased that you supported this importantlegislation and know that you recognize the enormouspotential of this research for discovering new curesand therapies for diseases such as diabetes,Parkinsons disease and spinal cord injuries."The only chance for overriding this veto rests withyou and the Republican caucuses in the House and theSenate."Millions of patients and their families across thenation cannot afford to wait any longer for theenactment of this urgently needed legislation," theDemocratic lawmakers wrote. "We are counting on your leadership to help ensurethat this legislation becomes law so that we mayfinally clear the way for research that could lead totreatments and cures for so many debilitating diseaseand conditions," Democrats wrote.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
That's not completely accurate, see the NIH funding guidelines regarding "What if a scientist is conducting research with both federally fundable and non-federally fundable human embryonic stem cells?" http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/faqs.asp At 06:39 AM 7/20/2006, Bill_J wrote: Bush did kill research on embryonic stem cells to this extent: ANY institution, public or private, that receives government money for any reason CAN NOT use embryos for stem cell research or they would forfiet the government money. This means any university that accepts students on government grants or loans, any drug company that recieves government money for R&D of ANY kind; "any form of government funding" disqualifies nearly everyone.
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Wrong. Just like the tax payers during the cold war that didn't like their tax money being spent to build nuclear weapons. It's up to our elected officials, like it or not. At 08:20 AM 7/20/2006, RollinOn wrote: You're forgetting something very important. It's not George Bush's money, it's my money and every other tax payer's money and they decided it was ok to use our money to research stem cell lines that aren't available with out signing this bill. It is the tax payers right to choose how they spend their money or am I wrong? Jim Lubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org Please Help: Inkjet & Toner Cartridge Recycling
[QUAD-L] Re: Stem Cell Bill Killed
It's just so simple and easy for anyone with any kind of intelligence. I think I just found my answer why. Mark ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 07/19/06 19:05:08 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Stem Cell Bill Killed In a message dated 7/19/2006 5:35:56 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sad isn't it. Mark Its just another battle in a big war and should be treated as such. Those who voted against the bill, will also be the receiver of the votes cast this fall. Party members are being to distance themselves from disease that will affect them directly in the elections. Bush has once again demonstrated bad judgement. He has chosen certain death for some Americans to have money saved for the destruction of another government. Lets see just how wise the voters are this fall with THEIR VOTE. The Moral Majority just may set new standards W
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Let's not forget that it's still legal to have 3 month abortions which I personally think is murder. My point is obviously how can you have this and then draw the line at Stem cell research? Mark ---Original Message--- From: River Wolfe Date: 07/20/06 06:21:07 To: tahouston Cc: quad Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed The concern is that when private interests complete research on medical cures, it is their property. Resulting in a financial interest for the private company. If it were Gvt sponsored research, then it would be owned by us and the price to partake in the treatment would be considerably less. I also don't understand how TonySnow can say W is against murder, but that since using these zygotes for research isn't illegal then the private sector can and will pursue research. Seems kinda hypocritical to me. On Jul 19, 2006, at 11:46 PM, tahouston wrote: George Bush did not kill research on stem cells, he just refused to fund it with taxpayers money. Like many other sickness and diseases, researchers continuing on with private donations and private fundraisers. Any person who wants to sit around and wait for the government to take action on important issues that they may benefit from I suggest is wasting their time. Most cures in this country have been discovered through R&D of private companies in the perseverance of medical scientists and doctors funded by private donations. T. Houston C5 C6 - Original Message - From: Rick Caseltine To: Quad List Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:50 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed Bush uses first-ever veto to kill stem cell bill 32minutes ago WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bushused his veto for the first time since taking office,blocking a bill that would have expanded federalfunding for embryonic stem cell research. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent societyneeds to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said inremarks at the White House, saying that in rejectingthe legislation he is "keeping the promise I made tothe American people."As science brings us ever closer to unlocking thesecrets of human biology, it also offers temptationsto manipulate human life and violate human dignity,"said Bush."Our conscience and history as a nation demand that weresist this temptation," Bush said.The stem cell research endorsed by the Senate onTuesday would have used embryos -- some consisting ofjust a handful of cells -- left over from in vitrofertilization (IVF) procedures.The president had long vowed to veto the bill becauseof his deeply held moral beliefs that destroying humanlife is wrong -- even in its earliest form, and evenin the interest of research that could lead topotentially life-saving medical breakthroughs.Bush made the announcement at a White House signingceremony for alternative bioethics legislation knownas "The Fetus Farming Prohibition Act," making it acrime to initiate a pregnancy for the sole purpose ofobtaining human organs or tissue for research.Present for the announcement were several familieswith "snowflake babies" -- children conceived viadonated embryos left over from IVF treatments.The president vetoed the Stem Cell ResearchEnhancement Act despite widespread support by the USpublic and ardent backers in Congress, who onWednesday urged Bush to reconsider his stance.Stem cell research advocates say the technique showspromise for the treatment of degenerative diseasessuch as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and for diabetes.The bill would have lifted rules set by Bush in 2001making federal funds available only for research on asmall number of embryonic stem cell lines whichexisted at that time.Government money is barred from supporting work on newlines derived from human embryos -- a restriction thatopponents say hampers overall research.In London, Martin Rees, the president of the RoyalSociety -- Britain's de facto academy of sciences --said the US policy "is slowing down the global effortto develop therapies for a range of diseases andillnesses.""If the present restrictions remain, it would surelymean that the United States will continue to fallbehind in this important and exciting area," saidRees.The Senate approved the measure by a 63-37 vote -- amargin too small to override a presidential veto.Nevertheless, 41 Senate Democrats sent a letter toMajority Leader Bill Frist, urging him to lobbysupport among congressional Republicans to overturnBush's veto."We are pleased that you supported this importantlegislation and know that you recognize the enormouspotential of this research for discovering new curesand therapies for diseases such as diabetes,Parkinsons disease and spinal cord injuries."The only chance for overriding this veto rests withyou and the Republican caucuses in the House and theSenate."Millions of patients and their families across thenation cannot afford to wait any longer for theenactment of this urgently needed legislation," theDemocratic lawmakers wrote
Re: Fwd: Re: [QUAD-L]---Thanks!
Hey Carol, First off I'm amazed at how much crap your relatives threw at you and how you handled it was even more amazing. The thought that you put into your Mother's passing left me choked up and tells me a little about your character, you have a good heart. I'm glad you found home and may I ask how old you are? Or is that out of line? Mark ---Original Message--- From: David K. Kelmer Date: 07/19/06 17:44:37 To: Quad-List; Carol A. Coveleskie Subject: Fwd: Re: [QUAD-L]---Thanks! Hi Carol, It's nice to see you have made it through those bad times and are back with the Quad-List. I am 'Forwarding' your post to the List. Remember to 'Reply to All' when you post. Again, welcome back. I think you did make your Mom proud! With Love, CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 30 Years PostTexas, USA"Carol A. Coveleskie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:20:19 -0400From: "Carol A. Coveleskie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [QUAD-L]---Thanks!To: "David K. Kelmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello 2 Everyone ! I was on this list for a very long time,but in the past 6 yrs.my Pc crashed-I was 10 wks.in the hospital with a flap-I was robbed of all my valuables & my $10,000.00 life's savings-Yes they were caught and are paying me $48.00 a month.Do you know how long I must live to collect that back?lol My van was stolen and run into the ground.I've been in & out of ICU 6 times with my life on the line. I'm like a bad weed you can't kill me so easy.lol I went to live with my daughter & I was paying all her bills & also for my care.When she asked me to pay for a screen porch for her 29 cats & I refused.The next 5 wks. were hell for me.She would give me my meds when she felt like it.She feed me when she felt like it.She would let me lay in my waste for days. She was in the country and the closes neighbors were 8 miles way.I was not allow to use the phone or my PC. She would call me filthy names & tell me I should die.I became very ill & she finally had to call 911.When they rushed me to the hospital along they way I let the know I was being abused.My life was on the line for wks.When I was well enough I wanted to go back to my own home.They tried to send me to the nursing home.Since I don't get a penny from the government they have no control over me so I won. Then 2 yrs. ago my mother was dying from colon cancer & had not told me.I learned about it when the Dr. called & told me she was dying and had about 2 wks.left to live.They said they were going to put her in a nursing home to die.I said over my dead body.My mother was coming to my home.They tried to stop me because I'm a C/5/6 in a chair.I got my lawyer and demanded my mother to be home with me. My mom had always said to me if your going to get me flowers get them while I'm alive.Well I bought $500. of flowers.I had tons of silk flowers made up.Every wall in the living room was covered with flowers.I called hospice to help me when my mom was brought 2 my home she cried when she saw the room.I laid in my recliner next to her bed and held her hand for the 7 days she lived.She died at home & in peace & with all my love surrounding her. Lord knows she was there for me the moment I became a quad. I felt so horned to be there for her & for me.I'm sorry my print is so large I'll do better next post.None of U know how happy I was to find U all again.U were my family and gave me love-understanding and encouragement.When I was on this list I was named Lady Quad there was also Little Quad from Texas. Please forgive me for being such a chatty Kathy. I'm just to Happy to be back home.I must close now as my new care giver has just gotten here.Some of U may still remember me.I surely remember many of U ! With Love & Friendship to All, yborcityborn1--Carol - Original Message - From: David K. Kelmer To: Carol A. Coveleskie ; Quad-List Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Hi Carol, You are a fully subscribed member. Pull up a chair and join the discussion. With Love, CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 30 Years PostTexas, USA "Carol A. Coveleskie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: subscribe
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
Bush did kill research on embryonic stem cells to this extent: ANY institution, public or private, that receives government money for any reason CAN NOT use embryos for stem cell research or they would forfiet the government money. This means any university that accepts students on government grants or loans, any drug company that recieves government money for R&D of ANY kind; "any form of government funding" disqualifies nearly everyone. The embryos that HR 810 was going to allow to be used for research were embryos that were destined for destruction anyway. I say "Use them - don't lose them." If anyone wants to get Bush's veto overidden they should call/write the 37 who voted against it in the Senate and those who voted for it who represent you and urge them to either change their vote or vote for it again. Very often a Senator or Representative will vote for a bill the first time, but vote against it after a veto. Leave nothing to chance. As of today I'm 38 years into quadom and counting. I'm hoping that this veto is overidden NOT FOR ME, but for the people who contract ALS, Alzheimers, Parkinsons, MS, MD, paraplegia, quadriplegia, etc. 10 or 20 years from now. By then the stem cell research might be at a point that it can help many maladies/diseases. Bill age 55C6 Incomplete since 7/20/68Leesburg, FLFor every action, there is an equal and opposite government program. - Original Message - From: tahouston To: quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed George Bush did not kill research on stem cells, he just refused to fund it with taxpayers money. Like many other sickness and diseases, researchers continuing on with private donations and private fundraisers. Any person who wants to sit around and wait for the government to take action on important issues that they may benefit from I suggest is wasting their time. Most cures in this country have been discovered through R&D of private companies in the perseverance of medical scientists and doctors funded by private donations. T. Houston C5 C6 - Original Message - From: Rick Caseltine To: Quad List Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:50 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed Bush uses first-ever veto to kill stem cell bill 32minutes ago WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bushused his veto for the first time since taking office,blocking a bill that would have expanded federalfunding for embryonic stem cell research. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent societyneeds to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said inremarks at the White House, saying that in rejectingthe legislation he is "keeping the promise I made tothe American people."As science brings us ever closer to unlocking thesecrets of human biology, it also offers temptationsto manipulate human life and violate human dignity,"said Bush."Our conscience and history as a nation demand that weresist this temptation," Bush said.The stem cell research endorsed by the Senate onTuesday would have used embryos -- some consisting ofjust a handful of cells -- left over from in vitrofertilization (IVF) procedures.The president had long vowed to veto the bill becauseof his deeply held moral beliefs that destroying humanlife is wrong -- even in its earliest form, and evenin the interest of research that could lead topotentially life-saving medical breakthroughs.Bush made the announcement at a White House signingceremony for alternative bioethics legislation knownas "The Fetus Farming Prohibition Act," making it acrime to initiate a pregnancy for the sole purpose ofobtaining human organs or tissue for research.Present for the announcement were several familieswith "snowflake babies" -- children conceived viadonated embryos left over from IVF treatments.The president vetoed the Stem Cell ResearchEnhancement Act despite widespread support by the USpublic and ardent backers in Congress, who onWednesday urged Bush to reconsider his stance.Stem cell research advocates say the technique showspromise for the treatment of degenerative diseasessuch as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and for diabetes.The bill would have lifted rules set by Bush in 2001making federal funds available only for research on asmall number of embryonic stem cell lines whichexisted at that time.Government money is barred from supporting work on newlines derived from human embryos -- a restriction thatopponents say hampers overall research.In London, Martin Rees, the president of the RoyalSociety -- Britain's de facto academy of sciences --said the US policy "is slowing down the global effortto develop therapies for a range of dis
Re: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill Killed
The concern is that when private interests complete research on medical cures, it is their property. Resulting in a financial interest for the private company. If it were Gvt sponsoredresearch, then it would be owned by us and the price to partake in the treatment would be considerably less. I also don't understand how TonySnow can say W is against murder, but that since using these zygotes for research isn't illegal then the private sector can and will pursue research. Seems kinda hypocritical to me.On Jul 19, 2006, at 11:46 PM, tahouston wrote:George Bush did not kill research on stem cells, he just refused to fund it with taxpayers money. Like many other sickness and diseases, researchers continuing on with private donations and private fundraisers. Any person who wants to sit around and wait for the government to take action on important issues that they may benefit from I suggest is wasting their time. Most cures in this country have been discovered through R&D of private companies in the perseverance of medical scientists and doctors funded by private donations. T. Houston C5 C6- Original Message -From: Rick CaseltineTo: Quad ListSent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:50 PMSubject: [QUAD-L] Stem Cell Bill KilledBush uses first-ever veto to kill stem cell bill 32minutes ago WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bushused his veto for the first time since taking office,blocking a bill that would have expanded federalfunding for embryonic stem cell research. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent societyneeds to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said inremarks at the White House, saying that in rejectingthe legislation he is "keeping the promise I made tothe American people."As science brings us ever closer to unlocking thesecrets of human biology, it also offers temptationsto manipulate human life and violate human dignity,"said Bush."Our conscience and history as a nation demand that weresist this temptation," Bush said.The stem cell research endorsed by the Senate onTuesday would have used embryos -- some consisting ofjust a handful of cells -- left over from in vitrofertilization (IVF) procedures.The president had long vowed to veto the bill becauseof his deeply held moral beliefs that destroying humanlife is wrong -- even in its earliest form, and evenin the interest of research that could lead topotentially life-saving medical breakthroughs.Bush made the announcement at a White House signingceremony for alternative bioethics legislation knownas "The Fetus Farming Prohibition Act," making it acrime to initiate a pregnancy for the sole purpose ofobtaining human organs or tissue for research.Present for the announcement were several familieswith "snowflake babies" -- children conceived viadonated embryos left over from IVF treatments.The president vetoed the Stem Cell ResearchEnhancement Act despite widespread support by the USpublic and ardent backers in Congress, who onWednesday urged Bush to reconsider his stance.Stem cell research advocates say the technique showspromise for the treatment of degenerative diseasessuch as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and for diabetes.The bill would have lifted rules set by Bush in 2001making federal funds available only for research on asmall number of embryonic stem cell lines whichexisted at that time.Government money is barred from supporting work on newlines derived from human embryos -- a restriction thatopponents say hampers overall research.In London, Martin Rees, the president of the RoyalSociety -- Britain's de facto academy of sciences --said the US policy "is slowing down the global effortto develop therapies for a range of diseases andillnesses.""If the present restrictions remain, it would surelymean that the United States will continue to fallbehind in this important and exciting area," saidRees.The Senate approved the measure by a 63-37 vote -- amargin too small to override a presidential veto.Nevertheless, 41 Senate Democrats sent a letter toMajority Leader Bill Frist, urging him to lobbysupport among congressional Republicans to overturnBush's veto."We are pleased that you supported this importantlegislation and know that you recognize the enormouspotential of this research for discovering new curesand therapies for diseases such as diabetes,Parkinsons disease and spinal cord injuries."The only chance for overriding this veto rests withyou and the Republican caucuses in the House and theSenate."Millions of patients and their families across thenation cannot afford to wait any longer for theenactment of this urgently needed legislation," theDemocratic lawmakers wrote. "We are counting on your leadership to help ensurethat this legislation becomes law so that we mayfinally clear the way for research that could lead totreatments and cures for so many debilitating diseaseand conditions," Democrats wrote.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
