Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-20 Thread Richard B. Gilbert 

On 10/19/2012 11:01 PM, John Hasler wrote:

Richard B. Gilbert writes:

...not all of us can afford Microsoft to read mail...


And some us wouldn't use it if paid to do so.  However, some MUAs such
as Gnus have "format message" commands that can render such a mess
readable.



I'll be damned if I'll spend money or time on it.

If I can't read mail conveniently because a MicroSoft product sends 1200 
character lines, making it unreadable, I'll just not read it

Most people that I want to exchange mail with do not send in formats
that I cannot read.


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-20 Thread Terje Mathisen 

Rob wrote:

David Woolley  wrote:

Rob wrote:



Maybe Thunderbird can do it as well, when you enable it somewhere.


Thunderbird wraps for sending and has error recovery for viewing, but
displays original text as written, and places initial ">"s on that
basis, when composing a reply.


That sounds like a bug or limitation, maybe you can fix it.


If Thunderbird is like the other Mozilla programs (I use SeaMonkey) it 
has a key combination (Alt-E W(rap)) which will reflow all quoted text 
when I'm about to write a reply and discover that the sender used 
something more or less braindead to compose it.


This also fixes the case where too many layers of quoting have indented 
the original post too far.


Terje

--
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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-20 Thread David Woolley 

Rob wrote:


terminals popular at the time, but today we have resizable windows and
many people use proportional fonts.  In such an environment, the layout
of flowing text is best left to the receiver.
(so it can re-flow when you make the window smaller, for example)


Thunderbird has the best of both worlds when used with conforming email 
clients (Outlook is non-conforming). It wraps the lines, with a trailing 
space on re-wrappable lines, and includes a special clause in the 
headers, as defined in RFC 3676, which tells aware clients that they can 
reflow.  Legacy clients use the line wraps from the sender.  RFC 3676 
aware clients, like Thunderbird, re-wrap to fit the actual window size.


However, when replying, it quotes incoming lines according to the 
standards, so if the line is very long, it is very long in the edit window.


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-20 Thread Rob 
David Woolley  wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
>> 
>> Maybe Thunderbird can do it as well, when you enable it somewhere.
>
> Thunderbird wraps for sending and has error recovery for viewing, but 
> displays original text as written, and places initial ">"s on that 
> basis, when composing a reply.

That sounds like a bug or limitation, maybe you can fix it.

In fact I think the concept of using single lines on transmission and
leave the wrapping to the receiver is a very sound one.  The fixed line
layout originally defined on e-mail and usenet worked well on the 80x24
terminals popular at the time, but today we have resizable windows and
many people use proportional fonts.  In such an environment, the layout
of flowing text is best left to the receiver.
(so it can re-flow when you make the window smaller, for example)

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-20 Thread David Woolley 

Rob wrote:



Maybe Thunderbird can do it as well, when you enable it somewhere.


Thunderbird wraps for sending and has error recovery for viewing, but 
displays original text as written, and places initial ">"s on that 
basis, when composing a reply.


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-20 Thread Rob 
Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:
> On 10/19/2012 2:56 PM, E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the 
> BlackLists wrote:
>> Rick Jones wrote:> Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:
 I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix
   Office?
>>>
>>> I suspect that Office automagically wraps long lines
>>>   when displaying messages, meaning that in an "Office"
>>>   context there is nothing perceived to be broken.
>>
>> I'm certain there is a sending message format option to
>>   wrap lines there somewhere.
>>
>
> It may be so but, from time to time, someone posts something with 400 
> characters and NO  or "new line"!
>
> It may be that Microsoft  can render these lines but not all 
> of us can afford Microsoft to read mail, news and/or other text 
> nor should we have to!

I read and post with slrn.  It nicely wraps those long lines at a
word boundary.

Maybe Thunderbird can do it as well, when you enable it somewhere.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists 
Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> BlackList wrote:
>> Rick Jones wrote:> Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:
 I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix
   Office?
>>>
>>> I suspect that Office automagically wraps long lines
>>>   when displaying messages, meaning that in an "Office"
>>>   context there is nothing perceived to be broken.
>>
>> I'm certain there is a sending message format option to
>>   wrap lines there somewhere.
>
> It may be so but, from time to time, someone posts
>  something with 400 characters and NO 
>  or "new line"!

The users of M$ LookOut could make a small effort to
 find the sending message format option to wrap lines,
 or google for it, if they really cared.

  {I'm sure M$ hides the option in a different place
in every version.}

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread John Hasler 
Richard B. Gilbert writes:
>...not all of us can afford Microsoft to read mail...

And some us wouldn't use it if paid to do so.  However, some MUAs such
as Gnus have "format message" commands that can render such a mess
readable.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread Richard B. Gilbert 
On 10/19/2012 2:56 PM, E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the 
BlackLists wrote:

Rick Jones wrote:> Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:

I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix
  Office?


I suspect that Office automagically wraps long lines
  when displaying messages, meaning that in an "Office"
  context there is nothing perceived to be broken.


I'm certain there is a sending message format option to
  wrap lines there somewhere.



It may be so but, from time to time, someone posts something with 400 
characters and NO  or "new line"!


It may be that Microsoft  can render these lines but not all 
of us can afford Microsoft to read mail, news and/or other text 
nor should we have to!




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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists 
Rick Jones wrote:> Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:
>> I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix
>>  Office?
>
> I suspect that Office automagically wraps long lines
>  when displaying messages, meaning that in an "Office"
>  context there is nothing perceived to be broken.

I'm certain there is a sending message format option to
 wrap lines there somewhere.


-- 
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  will be added to the BlackLists.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread Thomas Laus 
On 2012-10-18, Mike S  wrote:
> re: using gold caps
>
> You may wish to consider rechargeable lithium cells, which will give you 
> a more consistent voltage than a capacitor. I'm not sure how voltage 
> sensitive the Oncore boards are for holding data while powered down, but 
> these are what Motorola used in the ones with the on-board battery option.
>
The high Farad capacitor will charge to just a little under supply
voltage in about 24H.  My Oncore seems to keep the RTC running and the
almanac valid for about a month after power off.  That part of the
Oncore seems to draw in the very low nano-amp range.  The capacitor
has enough charge after about 3 hours to be useful for short power
blips.  I also thought about Lithium rechargables in searching for
this solution, but found that the high Farad capacitor was a drop in
replacment on my TAPR board.  It fit in the exact footprint of the
coin cell holder and all that I needed to do is replace one resistor
with a jumper wire.

Tom


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread Mike S 

On 10/19/2012 8:29 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:

What a brave new world we live in, that we have Digikey urban
legends!


I went to the source, and did an online chat:


Shelley ext 1396: Welcome to Digi-Key Live-Help. How may I assist
you?

mike: Why do all of your part numbers end in -ND? What does it mean?

Shelley ext 1396: Many many years ago, it meant something, however,
it doesn't mean anything now. Digi-Key has just adopted it as our
suffix to all of our part numbers.

mike: Do you know what it meant? I've heard both "No Discount" and
"New Digikey."

Shelley ext 1396: It used to mean Non-discount (it what I've been
told). I've been here 18 years and it was even before my time here.
:)

mike: Thanks




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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread John Ackermann N8UR 

On 10/18/2012 11:21 PM, Mike S wrote:

On 10/18/2012 10:48 PM, A C wrote:

On 10/18/2012 09:18, Mike S wrote:

Look for P202-ND. I'm not sure what the "dash" suffix signifies, but it
seems that Digikey ends _all_ their part numbers with the same one.



ND means "No Discount".  Parts that had ND didn't have a price break for
large quantities while parts that were missing the ND would have breaks
for 10, 25, 50, etc.


Good story, but demonstrably not true. Current case in point,

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BR-2325%2FHCN/P202-ND/45791

has -ND, and has quantity discounts - 1.73/1, 15.53/10, etc.


What I always heard is that "ND" is "New Digikey" and it is now a relic 
of a changeover they made in their part numbering system years ago.


What a brave new world we live in, that we have Digikey urban legends!

John


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-19 Thread David Woolley 

Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

On 10/18/2012 6:50 PM, Rick Jones wrote:

Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:

That's great.  I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix
Office?


I suspect that Office automagically wraps long lines when displaying
messages, meaning that in an "Office" context there is nothing
perceived to be broken.



That's great IF you are using some Microsoft product on both ends of the 
link.  Do I sense MONOPOLY at work?


This mis-feature dates back to the very first Windows email software. 
The people who wrote it didn't actually understand email standards, and 
applied the Windows convention that newline actually means new 
paragraph, when the standards said that newline means newline.


Unfortunately Windows users tended to mail to Windows users, and though 
that wrapping was the normal.  Also Windows users tend to top quote, so 
are not invonvenienced by the inability to insert a comment between two 
lines.


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread A C 

On 10/18/2012 20:21, Mike S wrote:

On 10/18/2012 10:48 PM, A C wrote:

On 10/18/2012 09:18, Mike S wrote:

Look for P202-ND. I'm not sure what the "dash" suffix signifies, but it
seems that Digikey ends _all_ their part numbers with the same one.



ND means "No Discount".  Parts that had ND didn't have a price break for
large quantities while parts that were missing the ND would have breaks
for 10, 25, 50, etc.


Good story, but demonstrably not true. Current case in point,

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BR-2325%2FHCN/P202-ND/45791

has -ND, and has quantity discounts - 1.73/1, 15.53/10, etc.



Look at an old catalog and you'll find the story true. ;)

That's where I got it from, the inside cover of a 15 year old catalog.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Richard B. Gilbert 

On 10/18/2012 6:50 PM, Rick Jones wrote:

Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:

That's great.  I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix
Office?


I suspect that Office automagically wraps long lines when displaying
messages, meaning that in an "Office" context there is nothing
perceived to be broken.

rick jones



That's great IF you are using some Microsoft product on both ends of the 
link.  Do I sense MONOPOLY at work?


Where is the FTC when you need them? !!!


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Mike S 

On 10/18/2012 10:48 PM, A C wrote:

On 10/18/2012 09:18, Mike S wrote:

Look for P202-ND. I'm not sure what the "dash" suffix signifies, but it
seems that Digikey ends _all_ their part numbers with the same one.



ND means "No Discount".  Parts that had ND didn't have a price break for
large quantities while parts that were missing the ND would have breaks
for 10, 25, 50, etc.


Good story, but demonstrably not true. Current case in point,

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BR-2325%2FHCN/P202-ND/45791

has -ND, and has quantity discounts - 1.73/1, 15.53/10, etc.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread A C 

On 10/18/2012 09:18, Mike S wrote:

On 10/18/2012 11:55 AM, Hahn, Ron wrote:


I am not really understanding the full purpose of the battery but
Maplin here in Ireland does not know of this BR2325.  So I am now
thinking that I can if possible use another 3v coin cell for this
purpose.  I did look on the Digi Key web site and the number P202-NC
does not come up.


Look for P202-ND. I'm not sure what the "dash" suffix signifies, but it
seems that Digikey ends _all_ their part numbers with the same one. I
suspect they changed from -NC to -ND at some point (but I don't recall
it ever not being -ND, so maybe it's a typo).


ND means "No Discount".  Parts that had ND didn't have a price break for 
large quantities while parts that were missing the ND would have breaks 
for 10, 25, 50, etc.


There is almost nothing left in the catalog without the ND now.
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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Mike S 

re: using gold caps

On 10/18/2012 5:09 PM, Ron Hahn wrote:


Thank you for this kind advice.  I would have not thought of such a
solution. I will order some of this part from Digi Key instead of
persuing the battery solution.


You may wish to consider rechargeable lithium cells, which will give you 
a more consistent voltage than a capacitor. I'm not sure how voltage 
sensitive the Oncore boards are for holding data while powered down, but 
these are what Motorola used in the ones with the on-board battery option.


http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0d16/0900766b80d165d8.pdf

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/VL2330-1HF/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduivy8R7K%2foL2kHdMDo3VKesvT%252bdhPsxkQ5XF6zpcl%2fElw%3d%3d

(the picture is wrong in the latter link)
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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Rick Jones 
Richard B. Gilbert  wrote:
> That's great.  I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix
> Office?

I suspect that Office automagically wraps long lines when displaying
messages, meaning that in an "Office" context there is nothing
perceived to be broken.

rick jones
-- 
denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth...
 where do you want to be today?
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com  but NOT BOTH...

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Richard B. Gilbert 

On 10/18/2012 5:11 PM, Ron Hahn wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 18/10/2012 21:07, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

On 10/17/2012 8:27 AM, Hahn, Ron wrote:

Colleagues,

I am putting together some Motorola Oncore UT+ boards to replace
my Sure boards in my ntp servers.  I am using this
http://www.tapr.org/gps_vpib.html board as the templat for the
interface circuits.  The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which
I cannot find in the local parts store.  Is there a person on
this list with experiences of this board design that can tell me
what I can substitute for this part?  Or maybe it is not
necessary?  I am not even sure if the battery is necessary but
from my experiences the boards go from a cold start whenever
power is interrupting. One of my servers is part of the ntp pool
so I am needing the rapid recovery if the power is interrupted.
My systems are on the UPS so maybe this battery is not required?

Thanks for the helping hands,

Ron



Please use your return key!!  The first line of your message runs
right off my screen!  sixty to one hundred characters per line
seems a reasonable length to me.  Greater lengths may be difficult
for some people to read!


Richard,

I am blaming that on Microsoft office, which I sent the original email
with. I am hoping that this Thunderbird email is more wrapped to your
satisfaction.



That's great.  I suppose there's no hope of getting Microsoft to fix Office?


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Ron Hahn 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 18/10/2012 21:07, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 8:27 AM, Hahn, Ron wrote:
>> Colleagues,
>> 
>> I am putting together some Motorola Oncore UT+ boards to replace
>> my Sure boards in my ntp servers.  I am using this 
>> http://www.tapr.org/gps_vpib.html board as the templat for the 
>> interface circuits.  The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which
>> I cannot find in the local parts store.  Is there a person on
>> this list with experiences of this board design that can tell me
>> what I can substitute for this part?  Or maybe it is not
>> necessary?  I am not even sure if the battery is necessary but
>> from my experiences the boards go from a cold start whenever
>> power is interrupting. One of my servers is part of the ntp pool
>> so I am needing the rapid recovery if the power is interrupted.
>> My systems are on the UPS so maybe this battery is not required?
>> 
>> Thanks for the helping hands,
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
> 
> Please use your return key!!  The first line of your message runs
> right off my screen!  sixty to one hundred characters per line
> seems a reasonable length to me.  Greater lengths may be difficult
> for some people to read!
> 
Richard,

I am blaming that on Microsoft office, which I sent the original email
with. I am hoping that this Thunderbird email is more wrapped to your
satisfaction.

R


- -- 
Ron Hahn, CISA, CISSP
Rose Hill
Rosslare Strand,
Wexford, IRELAND
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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Ron Hahn 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 18/10/2012 14:22, Thomas Laus wrote:
> On 2012-10-18, Thomas Laus  wrote:
>> Ron:
>> 
>> I am also using this same board and made a discovery a few years 
>> ago that this backup battery discharges over a period of time, 
>> normally less than a year and is not available when 'really' 
>> needing it.  There is a battery charging current available on Pin
>> 3 of your Oncore that can be used to charge a 1.5F 5.5V Gold 
>> Capacitor.  I used the Digikey part P11063-ND for mine.  It will 
>> mount in the same loacation as the coin cell.  You will need to 
>> jumper out R2 (820K) and just connect the high Farad capacitor 
>> between pins 1 & 3 on your Oncore.  Watch the polarity!  The 
>> charging circuit in the Oncore is current limiting and it will
>> take about 12H for enough charge to hold the almanac between
>> powerups. When the capacitor is fully charged, the almanac stays
>> for about a month.
>> 
>> You really can't do without a battery.  Your almanac information 
>> and current date and time is stored in the Oncore RAM.  Your GPS 
>> location, and other parameters get saved in Flash, but the
>> Oncore will require about 30-40 minutes to recover from a power
>> outage before it can serve up time again.
>> 
> Correction!!
> 
> The battery backup charging current is on Pin 1 of the Oncore 
> receiver instead of Pin 3.  Pin 3 is tied to ground, but Pin 1 has
> a current limited 5V available.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
Tom,

Thank you for this kind advice.  I would have not thought of such a
solution. I will order some of this part from Digi Key instead of
persuing the battery solution.

R

- -- 
Ron Hahn, CISA, CISSP
Rose Hill
Rosslare Strand,
Wexford, IRELAND
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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Richard B. Gilbert 

On 10/17/2012 8:27 AM, Hahn, Ron wrote:

Colleagues,

I am putting together some Motorola Oncore UT+ boards to replace my Sure boards 
in my ntp servers.  I am using this http://www.tapr.org/gps_vpib.html board as 
the templat for the interface circuits.  The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery 
which I cannot find in the local parts store.  Is there a person on this list 
with experiences of this board design that can tell me what I can substitute 
for this part?  Or maybe it is not necessary?  I am not even sure if the 
battery is necessary but from my experiences the boards go from a cold start 
whenever power is interrupting. One of my servers is part of the ntp pool so I 
am needing the rapid recovery if the power is interrupted. My systems are on 
the UPS so maybe this battery is not required?

Thanks for the helping hands,

Ron



Please use your return key!!  The first line of your message runs right 
off my screen!  sixty to one hundred characters per line seems a 
reasonable length to me.  Greater lengths may be difficult for some

people to read!

The battery you are seeking is available at Amazon.com for $3.99 U.S. 
for one battery.  Another seller is offering a package of five for $9.95 
U.S.


YMMV!

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Mike S 

On 10/18/2012 11:55 AM, Hahn, Ron wrote:


I am not really understanding the full purpose of the battery but
Maplin here in Ireland does not know of this BR2325.  So I am now
thinking that I can if possible use another 3v coin cell for this
purpose.  I did look on the Digi Key web site and the number P202-NC
does not come up.


Look for P202-ND. I'm not sure what the "dash" suffix signifies, but it 
seems that Digikey ends _all_ their part numbers with the same one. I 
suspect they changed from -NC to -ND at some point (but I don't recall 
it ever not being -ND, so maybe it's a typo).



If the battery is 3v I am wondering if the capacity is important for
this purpose?


Only for how long it can provide backup power.


Maplin have other coin cells 3v I will look at in the
shop.


Myself, I'd look for a CR2025 holder which would fit in that location, 
the cells are easily found, and with a holder, replaceable. If you think 
it may be powered off a lot, perhaps a gold cap, or rechargeable lithium.


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Hahn, Ron 


-Original Message-
From: questions-bounces+ron.hahn=fmr@lists.ntp.org 
[mailto:questions-bounces+ron.hahn=fmr@lists.ntp.org] On Behalf Of Thomas 
Laus
Sent: 18 October 2012 14:10
To: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

On 2012-10-17, Hahn, Ron  wrote:
> Colleagues,
>
> I am putting together some Motorola Oncore UT+ boards to replace my
> Sure boards in my ntp servers.  I am using this
> http://www.tapr.org/gps_vpib.html board as the templat for the
> interface circuits.  The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which
> I cannot find in the local parts store.  Is there a person on this
> list with experiences of this board design that can tell me what I
> can substitute for this part?  Or maybe it is not necessary?  I am
> not even sure if the battery is necessary but from my experiences
> the boards go from a cold start whenever power is interrupting.
> One of my servers is part of the ntp pool so I am needing the
> rapid recovery if the power is interrupted. My systems are on
> the UPS so maybe this battery is not required?  
>
Ron:

I am also using this same board and made a discovery a few years ago
that this backup battery discharges over a period of time, normally
less than a year and is not available when 'really' needing it.  There
is a battery charging current available on Pin 3 of your Oncore that
can be used to charge a 1.5F 5.5V Gold Capacitor.  I used the Digikey
part P11063-ND for mine.  It will mount in the same loacation as the
coin cell.  You will need to jumper out R2 (820K) and just connect the
high Farad capacitor between pins 1 & 3 on your Oncore.  Watch the
polarity!  The charging circuit in the Oncore is current limiting and
it will take about 12H for enough charge to hold the almanac between
powerups.  When the capacitor is fully charged, the almanac stays for
about a month.

You really can't do without a battery.  Your almanac information and
current date and time is stored in the Oncore RAM.  Your GPS location,
and other parameters get saved in Flash, but the Oncore will require
about 30-40 minutes to recover from a power outage before it can serve
up time again. 

Tom

Tom,

I have already experienced the head aches from accidentally disconnecting the 
power to the Oncore board!

I am looking at the schematic diagram and pin 1 is the battery + and pin 3 is 
the battery - connections.  Are you saying that there is the charge current on 
pin 1 to charge up this capacitor, to be discharged when the power is 
interrupting?

Thanks for the helping hands,

Ron 
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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Hahn, Ron 


-Original Message-
From: Mike S [mailto:mi...@flatsurface.com] 
Sent: 18 October 2012 13:14
To: Hahn, Ron
Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

On 10/17/2012 8:27 AM, Hahn, Ron wrote:
> The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which I
> cannot find in the local parts store.

Looking at the docs for that board, it is not properly documented. If 
you look for the given Digikey part number (P202-NC -> P202-ND) It 
appears that it actually uses a BR2325/HCN, and not a BR2325. Both are 
Panasonic lithium coin cells, but the former has solder leads. Any 3V 
lithium coin cell with similar lead spacing (or a socket/cell combo), 
20.5 mm, should work fine.

Hello Mike,

I am not really understanding the full purpose of the battery but Maplin here 
in Ireland does not know of this BR2325.  So I am now thinking that I can if 
possible use another 3v coin cell for this purpose.  I did look on the Digi Key 
web site and the number P202-NC does not come up.

If the battery is 3v I am wondering if the capacity is important for this 
purpose?  Maplin have other coin cells 3v I will look at in the shop.

Thanks for the helping hands,

Ron
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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Thomas Laus 
On 2012-10-18, Thomas Laus  wrote:
> Ron:
>
> I am also using this same board and made a discovery a few years ago
> that this backup battery discharges over a period of time, normally
> less than a year and is not available when 'really' needing it.  There
> is a battery charging current available on Pin 3 of your Oncore that
> can be used to charge a 1.5F 5.5V Gold Capacitor.  I used the Digikey
> part P11063-ND for mine.  It will mount in the same loacation as the
> coin cell.  You will need to jumper out R2 (820K) and just connect the
> high Farad capacitor between pins 1 & 3 on your Oncore.  Watch the
> polarity!  The charging circuit in the Oncore is current limiting and
> it will take about 12H for enough charge to hold the almanac between
> powerups.  When the capacitor is fully charged, the almanac stays for
> about a month.
>
> You really can't do without a battery.  Your almanac information and
> current date and time is stored in the Oncore RAM.  Your GPS location,
> and other parameters get saved in Flash, but the Oncore will require
> about 30-40 minutes to recover from a power outage before it can serve
> up time again. 
>
Correction!!

The battery backup charging current is on Pin 1 of the Oncore
receiver instead of Pin 3.  Pin 3 is tied to ground, but Pin 1 has a
current limited 5V available.

Tom


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Thomas Laus 
On 2012-10-17, Hahn, Ron  wrote:
> Colleagues,
>
> I am putting together some Motorola Oncore UT+ boards to replace my
> Sure boards in my ntp servers.  I am using this
> http://www.tapr.org/gps_vpib.html board as the templat for the
> interface circuits.  The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which
> I cannot find in the local parts store.  Is there a person on this
> list with experiences of this board design that can tell me what I
> can substitute for this part?  Or maybe it is not necessary?  I am
> not even sure if the battery is necessary but from my experiences
> the boards go from a cold start whenever power is interrupting.
> One of my servers is part of the ntp pool so I am needing the
> rapid recovery if the power is interrupted. My systems are on
> the UPS so maybe this battery is not required?  
>
Ron:

I am also using this same board and made a discovery a few years ago
that this backup battery discharges over a period of time, normally
less than a year and is not available when 'really' needing it.  There
is a battery charging current available on Pin 3 of your Oncore that
can be used to charge a 1.5F 5.5V Gold Capacitor.  I used the Digikey
part P11063-ND for mine.  It will mount in the same loacation as the
coin cell.  You will need to jumper out R2 (820K) and just connect the
high Farad capacitor between pins 1 & 3 on your Oncore.  Watch the
polarity!  The charging circuit in the Oncore is current limiting and
it will take about 12H for enough charge to hold the almanac between
powerups.  When the capacitor is fully charged, the almanac stays for
about a month.

You really can't do without a battery.  Your almanac information and
current date and time is stored in the Oncore RAM.  Your GPS location,
and other parameters get saved in Flash, but the Oncore will require
about 30-40 minutes to recover from a power outage before it can serve
up time again. 

Tom

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PGP KeyID = 0x5F22FDC1
GnuPG KeyID = 0x620836CF

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-18 Thread Mike S 

On 10/17/2012 8:27 AM, Hahn, Ron wrote:

The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which I
cannot find in the local parts store.


Looking at the docs for that board, it is not properly documented. If 
you look for the given Digikey part number (P202-NC -> P202-ND) It 
appears that it actually uses a BR2325/HCN, and not a BR2325. Both are 
Panasonic lithium coin cells, but the former has solder leads. Any 3V 
lithium coin cell with similar lead spacing (or a socket/cell combo), 
20.5 mm, should work fine.

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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-17 Thread E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists 
Hahn, Ron wrote:
> ... circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which I cannot
>  find in the local parts store.

 ?


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Re: [ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-17 Thread David Lord 

Hahn, Ron wrote:

Colleagues,

I am putting together some Motorola Oncore UT+ boards to replace my Sure boards in my ntp servers.  I am using this http://www.tapr.org/gps_vpib.html board as the templat for the interface circuits.  The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery which I cannot find in the local parts store.  Is there a person on this list with experiences of this board design that can tell me what I can substitute for this part?  Or maybe it is not necessary?  I am not even sure if the battery is necessary but from my experiences the boards go from a cold start whenever power is interrupting. One of my servers is part of the ntp pool so I am needing the rapid recovery if the power is interrupted. My systems are on the UPS so maybe this battery is not required?  


Thanks for the helping hands,

Ron


in UK they're listed by both Farnell and Electrocomponents both
having overseas branches.

#  BATTERY, LITHIUM, BR2325 165MAH
# Battery Size Code: 2325
# Battery Capacity: 165mAh
# Battery Voltage: 3V
# Battery Technology: Lithium Polymer
# Battery Terminals: Pressure Contact
# External Diameter: 23mm
# External Height: 2.5mm
# External Width: 23mm
# External Depth: 2.5mm
# Weight: 3.2g
# Body Diameter: 23mm
# Depth: 2.5mm
# External Length / Height: 2.5mm
# Operating Temperature Max: 80°C
# Operating Temperature Min: -30°C
# Output Voltage: 3V
# Pack Quantity: 1

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[ntp:questions] Motorola Oncore GPS as Stratum 1 source

2012-10-17 Thread Hahn, Ron 
Colleagues,

I am putting together some Motorola Oncore UT+ boards to replace my Sure boards 
in my ntp servers.  I am using this http://www.tapr.org/gps_vpib.html board as 
the templat for the interface circuits.  The circuit calls for a BR2325 battery 
which I cannot find in the local parts store.  Is there a person on this list 
with experiences of this board design that can tell me what I can substitute 
for this part?  Or maybe it is not necessary?  I am not even sure if the 
battery is necessary but from my experiences the boards go from a cold start 
whenever power is interrupting. One of my servers is part of the ntp pool so I 
am needing the rapid recovery if the power is interrupted. My systems are on 
the UPS so maybe this battery is not required?  

Thanks for the helping hands,

Ron
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