[RBW] Re: San Diego Custom BIcycle Show Rivendell Ri de! Apr. 11 Mixie •Velo Cult •Beer

[Esteban]

David - didn't you *suggest* (ie. peer "pressure") me to add it to the
SDCBS website!?

Hopefully the old Volvo makes it down from SF just fine on Saturday
(knock on wood trim on the dash).

This will be a fun day.  Come on down!

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

On Apr 5, 8:50 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Serious promotion!  The pressure's on, Esteban!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
> > With that listing, the turnout may exceed last years.by a lot!
> > Next thing we'll need are route slips.  See you Sunday.
> > Hey, this will be 3 Riv rides in 3 weeks - cool!
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Apr 5, 10:38 am, Esteban  wrote:
> > > Our ride is onvthe show website!
>
> > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
>
> > > Esteban
> > > Sam Diego, Calif.
> > > On Apr 5, 7:44 am, EricP  wrote:
>
> > > > Well, yeah.  That too.  Most of my rides were early in the morning, so
> > > > that wasn't as much a distraction.
>
> > > > Also had a fun time watching some dolphins play in the surf.
> > > > Something you definitely cannot see around here.  Although on my ride
> > > > around Lake Pepin on the Hillborne, saw more bald eagles than I have
> > > > in the past few years near Maiden Rock (the feature, not the town).
>
> > > > Eric Platt
> > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > On Apr 4, 10:21 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > Still in the Bay Area (down mid-week to teach, then up here later
> > this
> > > > > week for a conference -- whew!  I guess the 'quake was upgraded to a
> > > > > 7.2.  The San Diego/Tijuana megalopolis shrugs it off.  My mother
> > > > > reported, like Dustin, that it was quite a shake.  30 seconds.
>
> > > > > So... the SDCBS is STILL ON!!!
>
> > > > > Eric - when I ride along the boardwalk in Mission Beach, I must
> > admit,
> > > > > its not the houses I'm gawking at. I like the visions your memories
> > > > > evoke, though!  Its easy to take one's hometown for granted.  Thanks
> > > > > for the wake-up call.
>
> > > > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > > > On Apr 4, 6:27 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > > > What a coincidence!  Those are all events I would like to have
> > repeated as
> > > > > > well!
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:01 PM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > > > I know.  Just want to ride it again.  (Okay, and ride back up to
> > > > > > > Mission Beach and gawk at the houses on the beach.  And ride to
> > > > > > > Coronado.  And stop on the southern part of the loop to
> > photograph the
> > > > > > > old railroad depot.  And have another beer at the restaurant we
> > > > > > > stopped at.  And . . . )
>
> > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > > > On Apr 4, 6:16 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > > > > > Eric--some of this is the route we did last year.  Gonna be
> > fun.
>
> > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 5:48 am, EricP  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Wish I wasn't 3,000 or so miles away.  Would love to get back
> > out
> > > > > > > > > there and particpate in those rides.
>
> > > > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 12:17 am, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Forget the fact that I don't know what size bikes I ride.
> >  Let's
> > > > > > > ride,
> > > > > > > > > > drink beer, and see fancy bikes! Highlights - Mixed terrain
> > urban
> > > > > > > > > > route!  Velo Cult!  Craft Beers! Big Time Bicycle Show!
>
> > > > > > > > > > Last year, the SDCBS was a fantastic event - featuring
> > framebuilders
> > > > > > > > > > new and old (figuratively and literally), and a nice Riv
> > custom in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Joe Bell booth.  A few of us rode a loop around San Diego
> > Bay.  This
> > > > > > > > > > is going to be a great event, and I hope some list members
> > make some
> > > > > > > > > > of the show:
>
> > > > > > > > > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
>
> > > > > > > > > > Of, course, the So Cal Rivendell Bicycle Appreciation
> > Society will
> > > > > > > > > > hold court on Sunday morning (April 11) for a mid city
> > mixie.  For
> > > > > > > > > > those who want to see the ocean and enjoy a bit more of a
> > ride, we'll
> > > > > > > > > > meet at 9am at the Mission Bay Visitors Center and do this
> > loop (San
> > > > > > > > > > Diego River, Ocean Beach, Sunset Cliffs, Pt. Loma,
> > Downtown)... then,
> > > > > > > > > > we'll pick people up at the train station.
>
> >http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie-Extended-Route
>
> > > > > > > > > > And for those who want to sleep in, and/or just want a
> > tolken ride to
> > > > > > > > > > through two tolken dirt sections in the middle of one of
> > the largest
> > > > > > > > > > cities in the U.S., meet us at 10ish at the Santa Fe Depot
> > downtown,
> > > > > > > > > > and we'll cross downtown up to Balboa Park, through the
> > Haunted Trail
> > > > > > > > > > along the 163, down the dirt section of Florida Canyon ( a
> > bit bumpy,
> > > > > > > > > > but not bad), up to Velo Cult in South Park, then down 30t

[RBW] Re: San Diego Custom BIcycle Show Rivendell Ri de! Apr. 11 Mixie •Velo Cult •Beer

[Esteban]

Final list of exhibitors for SDCBS:


here's the final vendor list. very impressive frame builders in
there.

Framebuilders

Brian Baylis
Sadilah Handmade Framesets
Ybarrola Bicycles
Joe Bell Bicycle Refinishing
Bohemian Bicycles
Courage Cycles
Townsend Cycles
Bruce Gordon Cycles
Soulcraft
Kish Fabrication
Charter Oak Cycling (Bill Rider)
Gallus Cycles
Bill Holland Cycles
Blaze Bicycles
MAP Bicycles
Courage Bicycles
Rebolledo Cycles
YiPsan Bicycles
Winter Bicycles
Vendetta Cycles
Wolfhound Cycles
Lyonsport Custom Frames
Victoria Cycles
Rock Lobster Custom Bicycles
Dan Cunningham Cycles
Keith Anderson
Mark DiNucci
Taylor Bicycles
Serotta
Ruegamer Sports
Bilenky Cycle Works
Caletti Cycles
Moth Attack
DeSalvo Custom Cycles
Milano Sport



Industry

Speedplay
Larabar
Velo Cult Bicycle Shop
Pacific Coast Cycles
Henry James Bicycles Inc.
Campagnolo
Sound Cycles
Adams Avenue Bicycles
San Diego Bicycle Club
Sock Guy
Moment Cycle Sport
SelleLogica Saddles
Far West Milano CC -Vintage Bicycles
AIDS Life Cycle -Ride to end AIDS
Mel Pinto Imports
Nova Cycles Supply
Fit Kit
The Arthritis Foundation
Andy Schwartz
Electra Bicycle Co.
Swrve Cycling
Bringheli
TEXmarket
Homebrewed Components

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

On Apr 6, 12:36 am, Esteban  wrote:
> David - didn't you *suggest* (ie. peer "pressure") me to add it to the
> SDCBS website!?
>
> Hopefully the old Volvo makes it down from SF just fine on Saturday
> (knock on wood trim on the dash).
>
> This will be a fun day.  Come on down!
>
> Esteban
> San Diego, Calif.
>
> On Apr 5, 8:50 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Serious promotion!  The pressure's on, Esteban!
>
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
> > > With that listing, the turnout may exceed last years.by a lot!
> > > Next thing we'll need are route slips.  See you Sunday.
> > > Hey, this will be 3 Riv rides in 3 weeks - cool!
>
> > > dougP
>
> > > On Apr 5, 10:38 am, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > Our ride is onvthe show website!
>
> > > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
>
> > > > Esteban
> > > > Sam Diego, Calif.
> > > > On Apr 5, 7:44 am, EricP  wrote:
>
> > > > > Well, yeah.  That too.  Most of my rides were early in the morning, so
> > > > > that wasn't as much a distraction.
>
> > > > > Also had a fun time watching some dolphins play in the surf.
> > > > > Something you definitely cannot see around here.  Although on my ride
> > > > > around Lake Pepin on the Hillborne, saw more bald eagles than I have
> > > > > in the past few years near Maiden Rock (the feature, not the town).
>
> > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > On Apr 4, 10:21 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > > Still in the Bay Area (down mid-week to teach, then up here later
> > > this
> > > > > > week for a conference -- whew!  I guess the 'quake was upgraded to a
> > > > > > 7.2.  The San Diego/Tijuana megalopolis shrugs it off.  My mother
> > > > > > reported, like Dustin, that it was quite a shake.  30 seconds.
>
> > > > > > So... the SDCBS is STILL ON!!!
>
> > > > > > Eric - when I ride along the boardwalk in Mission Beach, I must
> > > admit,
> > > > > > its not the houses I'm gawking at. I like the visions your memories
> > > > > > evoke, though!  Its easy to take one's hometown for granted.  Thanks
> > > > > > for the wake-up call.
>
> > > > > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > > > > On Apr 4, 6:27 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > What a coincidence!  Those are all events I would like to have
> > > repeated as
> > > > > > > well!
>
> > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:01 PM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > > > > I know.  Just want to ride it again.  (Okay, and ride back up to
> > > > > > > > Mission Beach and gawk at the houses on the beach.  And ride to
> > > > > > > > Coronado.  And stop on the southern part of the loop to
> > > photograph the
> > > > > > > > old railroad depot.  And have another beer at the restaurant we
> > > > > > > > stopped at.  And . . . )
>
> > > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 6:16 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Eric--some of this is the route we did last year.  Gonna be
> > > fun.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 5:48 am, EricP  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Wish I wasn't 3,000 or so miles away.  Would love to get 
> > > > > > > > > > back
> > > out
> > > > > > > > > > there and particpate in those rides.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 12:17 am, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Forget the fact that I don't know what size bikes I ride.
> > >  Let's
> > > > > > > > ride,
> > > > > > > > > > > drink beer, and see fancy bikes! Highlights - Mixed 
> > > > > > > > > > > terrain
> > > urban
> > > > > > > > > > > route!  Velo Cult!  Craft Beers! Big Time Bicycle Show!
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Last year, the SDCBS was a fantastic event - featuring
> > > framebuilders
> > > > > > > > > > > new and old (figuratively and literally), and a nice Riv
> > > custom i

[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

On Apr 5, 6:16 pm, William  wrote:
> Eric
>
> I don't think anyone should or would fault you for not wanting to
> follow through on buying a bike that changed into something you don't
> like.
>
> Personally, the only thing you said that I thought was a bit unfair
> was the statement that the bike seemed like a 'half-hearted copy' of
> another bike.  I don't know Grant or Keven well enough to really know
> how they might feel about reading that, but I can't imagine it being
> pleasant.  I don't think Grant or Keven is a copycat,
>

As far as I can tell, there is nothing about the shape of Rivendell's
bicycles that hasn't been done before.  There are very few creative
new bike designs.  But, I think I have discovered one.  I call it the
Trianga-pillar:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4495790421/

Patent pending.







and I don't
> think they approach bike design half-heartedly, and I bet you don't
> either.  It's fine being honest about subjective things like the
> design is 'jarring' or even ugly if that's the way you feel.
>
> On Apr 5, 4:57 pm, EricP  wrote:
>
> > I'm owning up.  It's me that has the refund.  Mainly due to the
> > thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered.  It may be good, but
> > not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf.  The new bike is
> > also too jarring to me visually.
>
> > Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord.  Not my
> > wish.  Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas.
>
> > Am not mad at Rivendell at all.  The blame (if there is any) lies
> > squarely with me in this case.
>
> > Eric Platt
> > St. Paul, MN
>
> > On Apr 5, 6:00 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off
> > > the boat. I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. Having ridden the
> > > prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. This diagonal-fest will
> > > only make them more solid. And more awesome.
>
> > > And these were never svelte bikes. They are intended to be tanks,
> > > plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot)
> > > for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and
> > > Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting.
>
> > > Patience is a virtue. I'm liking this bike more and more.
>
> > > Esteban
> > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > On Apr 5, 3:48 pm, Beth  wrote:
>
> > > > Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you
> > > > 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
> > > > still not tall.
>
> > > > Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
> > > > it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
> > > > resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)
>
> > > > On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William  wrote:
>
> > > > > No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>
> > > > > On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view
> > > > > > > too much. Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike. Fine. I'm
> > > > > > > fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > > > > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > > > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > > > > > original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > > > > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > > > > > Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would 
> > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in 
> > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a 
> > > > > > > mount
> > > > > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > > > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa 
> > > > > > > Fargo.
> > > > > > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > > > > > Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of 
> > > > > > > money
> > > > > > > selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can 
> > > > > > > live
> > > > > > > happily with.
>
> > > > > > > Sigh.
>
> > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > > > Eric,
>
> > > > > > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be 
> > > > > > suprised if
> > > > > > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy 
> > > > > > with the
> > > > > > change to the top tube.
>
> > > > > > Dan Abelson
> > > > > > St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: New Grant Post / Tim Wright

[Me]

I sent it to a friend... he owns an SUV.

He wasn't overly happy.

I then explained that thoughtless use of a vehicle is the point, not
ALL autos [or SUV's], and their drivers.

He felt better, and agreed it was interesting and compelling.

I shouldn't have sent it to him.

I guess.

On Apr 5, 10:11 pm, manueljohnacosta 
wrote:
> Awesome video. I've shown this to a handful of people and they said
> they could related.
>
> On Apr 5, 3:15 am, EricP  wrote:
>
> > Well, the video does make one think.  And it does make me question
> > some fundamental values I hold dear (which is very good).
>
> > Eric Platt
> > St. Paul, MN
>
> > On Apr 4, 11:10 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
>
> > > That is a very inspirational video. I'm glad there are people out
> > > there who help us focus on the right way to live. Of course I am of
> > > like mind but it helps reinforce the lifestyle nontheless. Perhaps all
> > > of our's goal for tomorrow should be to inspire someone else in this
> > > same way.
>
> > > ~Mike~
>
> > > On Apr 4, 8:16 pm, Brad Gantt  wrote:
>
> > > > I just read the Easter post on the Riv homepage. I was intrigued by
> > > > Tim Wright who was mentioned in the post. A few clicks later, I found
> > > > this short film about Tim and thought others in the Bunch might enjoy
> > > > watching it as much as I did.
>
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeYThaTBaLk-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Scott G.]

My Spring BQ came packed with a very shiny GB rim, thanks Jan.

I am all for ephemera being in digital form, BQ is archival, so paper
is a good choice.
There is probably useful info on the Bernoulli and Twiggy disks the
back room,
too bad the computers and drives are long dead.
Some 1942 CTC Gazettes on wartime paper are still in good shape, good
reading too.

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Custom BIcycle Show Rivendel l Ride! Apr. 11 Mixie •Velo Cult •Beer

[cyclotourist]

I believe I might have mentioned it... :-)

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Esteban  wrote:

> David - didn't you *suggest* (ie. peer "pressure") me to add it to the
> SDCBS website!?
>
> Hopefully the old Volvo makes it down from SF just fine on Saturday
> (knock on wood trim on the dash).
>
> This will be a fun day.  Come on down!
>
> Esteban
> San Diego, Calif.
>
> On Apr 5, 8:50 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > Serious promotion!  The pressure's on, Esteban!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, doug peterson 
> wrote:
> > > With that listing, the turnout may exceed last years.by a lot!
> > > Next thing we'll need are route slips.  See you Sunday.
> > > Hey, this will be 3 Riv rides in 3 weeks - cool!
> >
> > > dougP
> >
> > > On Apr 5, 10:38 am, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > Our ride is onvthe show website!
> >
> > > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
> >
> > > > Esteban
> > > > Sam Diego, Calif.
> > > > On Apr 5, 7:44 am, EricP  wrote:
> >
> > > > > Well, yeah.  That too.  Most of my rides were early in the morning,
> so
> > > > > that wasn't as much a distraction.
> >
> > > > > Also had a fun time watching some dolphins play in the surf.
> > > > > Something you definitely cannot see around here.  Although on my
> ride
> > > > > around Lake Pepin on the Hillborne, saw more bald eagles than I
> have
> > > > > in the past few years near Maiden Rock (the feature, not the town).
> >
> > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > St. Paul, MN
> >
> > > > > On Apr 4, 10:21 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Still in the Bay Area (down mid-week to teach, then up here later
> > > this
> > > > > > week for a conference -- whew!  I guess the 'quake was upgraded
> to a
> > > > > > 7.2.  The San Diego/Tijuana megalopolis shrugs it off.  My mother
> > > > > > reported, like Dustin, that it was quite a shake.  30 seconds.
> >
> > > > > > So... the SDCBS is STILL ON!!!
> >
> > > > > > Eric - when I ride along the boardwalk in Mission Beach, I must
> > > admit,
> > > > > > its not the houses I'm gawking at. I like the visions your
> memories
> > > > > > evoke, though!  Its easy to take one's hometown for granted.
>  Thanks
> > > > > > for the wake-up call.
> >
> > > > > > San Diego, Calif.
> >
> > > > > > On Apr 4, 6:27 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > What a coincidence!  Those are all events I would like to have
> > > repeated as
> > > > > > > well!
> >
> > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:01 PM, EricP 
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I know.  Just want to ride it again.  (Okay, and ride back up
> to
> > > > > > > > Mission Beach and gawk at the houses on the beach.  And ride
> to
> > > > > > > > Coronado.  And stop on the southern part of the loop to
> > > photograph the
> > > > > > > > old railroad depot.  And have another beer at the restaurant
> we
> > > > > > > > stopped at.  And . . . )
> >
> > > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
> >
> > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 6:16 pm, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Eric--some of this is the route we did last year.  Gonna be
> > > fun.
> >
> > > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 5:48 am, EricP  wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > Wish I wasn't 3,000 or so miles away.  Would love to get
> back
> > > out
> > > > > > > > > > there and particpate in those rides.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > > > > > > St. Paul, MN
> >
> > > > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 12:17 am, Esteban  wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Forget the fact that I don't know what size bikes I
> ride.
> > >  Let's
> > > > > > > > ride,
> > > > > > > > > > > drink beer, and see fancy bikes! Highlights - Mixed
> terrain
> > > urban
> > > > > > > > > > > route!  Velo Cult!  Craft Beers! Big Time Bicycle Show!
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Last year, the SDCBS was a fantastic event - featuring
> > > framebuilders
> > > > > > > > > > > new and old (figuratively and literally), and a nice
> Riv
> > > custom in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > Joe Bell booth.  A few of us rode a loop around San
> Diego
> > > Bay.  This
> > > > > > > > > > > is going to be a great event, and I hope some list
> members
> > > make some
> > > > > > > > > > > of the show:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >http://www.sandiegocustombicycleshow.com/
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Of, course, the So Cal Rivendell Bicycle Appreciation
> > > Society will
> > > > > > > > > > > hold court on Sunday morning (April 11) for a mid city
> > > mixie.  For
> > > > > > > > > > > those who want to see the ocean and enjoy a bit more of
> a
> > > ride, we'll
> > > > > > > > > > > meet at 9am at the Mission Bay Visitors Center and do
> this
> > > loop (San
> > > > > > > > > > > Diego River, Ocean Beach, Sunset Cliffs, Pt. Loma,
> > > Downtown)... then,
> > > > > > > > > > > we'll pick people up at the train station.
> >
> > >http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Mid-City-Mixie-Extended-Route
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > And for those who want to sleep in, and/or just want a
> > > tolken ride to
> > > > > > > > > > > through two tolken dirt sections in the 

[RBW] Re: New Grant Post / Tim Wright

[stevep33]

It's funny how people think those who cycle for transport are either
superhuman or crazy, as if you can't actually get somewhere that you
need to go on a bicycle.

Car-free isn't for me, but I really enjoy car-lite.

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 BQ on the way

[Mike]

>My suggestion would be that BQ articles on new bikes and
equipment have an associated online archive of color photos.

They kinda already do that:

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/image-archive.html

I prefer BQ to come in the mail and don't mind the B&W images one bit.
I love the simple layout. The technical articles are sleep inducing
but I enjoy the ride reports and cycling history. I'm glad it's
available, there's nothing else remotely like it that I'm aware of.

--mike

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[RBW] Re: New Grant Post / Tim Wright

[Patrick in VT]

On Apr 4, 11:16 pm, Brad Gantt  wrote:

if you haven't seen it, "the story of stuff" is a neat little animated
video that digs a little deeper into Mr. Wright's thoughts on
groupthink, not understanding the implications of our actions,
consumerism, etc.

http://www.storyofstuff.com/



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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[jan_heine]

> My suggestion would be that BQ articles on new bikes and
> equipment have an associated online archive of color photos.

The online full-color archives already exists:

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/biketests.html (test bikes)

and

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/image-archive.html (classic bikes)

Regarding the question of paper vs. electronic, most of us spend
enough time looking at a screen. Sitting on the sofa with my children
and reading a paper book or magazine is truly quality time. Beyond
that, much of the research in Bicycle Quarterly hopefully will endure
the ages. And for that, paper is invaluable. Web sites come and go,
discs become illegible, but paper endures. If Velocio hadn't printed
Le Cycliste on paper, we wouldn't know much about the early days of
cyclotouring. And Rebour's wonderful drawings would be long-lost if
they hadn't been printed on paper. I recently found an article that
described how the "low-trail" geometries were developed... finally
answering some of the questions I've had for years. My take is that if
it's something you plan to keep, and if it's important,  paper is
good. If it's read once and then discarded, electronic is better.

Compared to all the paper you get in the mail every year, four issues
of Bicycle Quarterly don't make a huge impact. We use a local printer
and recycled paper, and most of the magazines are carried to the post
office by bike, so we are actively reducing our environmental impact.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
2116 Western Ave.
Seattle WA 98121
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[Dave Craig]

Interesting. Have you noted that not single person who replied to your
post recommended the Arkel 54 panniers??

Here's why I didn't:

Tremendously overbuilt and oversized - this results in increased
weight. Compared with the Ortlieb backrollers, this translates to
about 2 pounds extra per pair empty. As you know, if you are flying
anywhere these days, extra weight in your luggage costs money.

Extra capacity - The Arkels are 54 liters per pair versus 40 liters
per pair for the Ortieb back rollers. Extra capacity might seem like a
good thing, but it encourages over packing. EVERY tourist I've seen on
the road who has the Arkel 54 panniers has been carrying a lot of
unnecessary (for me) stuff and this adds up to even more weight you'll
have to roll up hills. Weight is additive - heavier panniers and more
stuff means you'll need a heavier bike frame, heavier wheels, heavier
tires - I can pack EVERYTHING for a 2 month tour INSIDE my front and
rear roller Ortliebs with no load on top of the racks. Traveling as
light as possible when touring can increase your enjoyment overall. I
usually have plenty of energy left at the end of a day to go for
another bike ride (unloaded) or a hike, and I'm not afraid to explore
interesting side roads or go a little extra distance to a campsite
that might be a bit nicer than the one I'd planned.

On the topic of visibility - The red used on the Arkel panniers isn't
really all that visible. First, your panniers are down low and present
a minimal profile from the rear. If you are truly concerned with
visibility on the road, wear a safety yellow or safety orange vest or
jersey. Second, compared with yellow, red isn't all that visible,
especially in low light. The reflective triangles on the back of
Ortieb panniers are stunningly bright when ANY light hits them.
Lastly, I find brightly colored panniers to be a double edged sword.
There are times when I prefer to be less visible so as to avoid
unwanted attention - as when choosing "creative" camping
possibilities. Again, on the road, I wear a highly visible vest and
the back of my bike sports a yellow safety triangle.

Cost - Ortiebs aren't cheap, but come on, $380.00 for a pair of bags??
REI sells the backrollers for $165.00. The way I travel, that extra
$215.00 bucks would allow me to spend an extra week or more on the
road.

Waterproofness - OK, if you are buying the idea that totally
waterproof bags are not good (I disagree), realize the any decent
pannier will keep your stuff reasonably dry. Realize also that most
tourists don't choose to ride day after day, in day-long downpours. Do
you enjoy riding in the rain now? It is simple to cheaply waterproof
your gear. While "wet" canyoneering (essentially, using my pack as
flotation) I've been able to keep my gear dry using double trash
compactor bags inside a standard, non-waterproof, backpack.

Dave

On Apr 5, 9:29 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> Thanks for the recommendations.
>
> It looks like Arkel's GT-54 panniers offer the best of both worlds:
> they have a dry sack integrated into the main compartment, which you
> can either use or roll up so it is out of the way.  But they are
> extremely expensive at $380.  I guess you could just buy a dry bag and
> put it in a cheaper non-water proof pannier to get the same benefit.
>
> Here's something I don't understand about the Ortliebs.  I would like
> to get high visibility panniers, like the yellow Ortliebs.  However,
> the back of the panniers is black. Why did Ortlieb do that instead of
> making the whole thing high vis yellow?  That is one thing I like
> about the Arkels: the whole pannier is red and there's lots of
> reflective striping.

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RE: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Frederick, Steve]

It's your call, of course, and I don't personally hold it against you in any 
way.  I'd point out though, that it seems a bit premature to me given that the 
final design decision has yet to be made, and no pictures of a prototype or 
first batch frameset has been published. (aside the photoshopped possibilities 
posted here)  

I trust Grant to make this bike look great no matter what design is finalized.  
I think you gave up on Grant/Riv a bit too soon...

Steve

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of EricP
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:58 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar


I'm owning up.  It's me that has the refund.  Mainly due to the
thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered.  It may be good, but
not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf.  The new bike is
also too jarring to me visually.

Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord.  Not my
wish.  Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas.

Am not mad at Rivendell at all.  The blame (if there is any) lies
squarely with me in this case.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN



On Apr 5, 6:00�pm, Esteban  wrote:
> If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off
> the boat. �I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. �Having ridden the
> prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. �This diagonal-fest will
> only make them more solid. �And more awesome.
>
> And these were never svelte bikes. �They are intended to be tanks,
> plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot)
> for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and
> Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting.
>
> Patience is a virtue. �I'm liking this bike more and more.
>
> Esteban
> San Diego, Calif.
>
> On Apr 5, 3:48�pm, Beth  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you
> > 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
> > still not tall.
>
> > Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
> > it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
> > resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)
>
> > On Apr 5, 9:01�am, William  wrote:
>
> > > No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>
> > > On Apr 5, 8:27�am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>
> > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP  wrote:
> > > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. �Jars my view
> > > > > too much. �Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike. �Fine. �I'm
> > > > > fat. �That's been established. �Don't like the idea that I'm stuck
> > > > > riding a "special" bike.
>
> > > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
> > > > > original Breezer, that might work. �That's a copy of the Schwinn
> > > > > Excelsior frame.
>
> > > > > Also, on a slightly different note. �With the center tube, would make
> > > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without
> > > > > interference. �At least on a 58. �And forget using a pump with a mount
> > > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>
> > > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo.
> > > > > Without the extra standover.
>
> > > > > Yes, I'm upset about this. �Will probably end up losing a lot of money
> > > > > selling off my frame without building it up. �Not something I can live
> > > > > happily with.
>
> > > > > Sigh.
>
> > > > > Eric Platt
> > > > > St. Paul, MN
>
> > > > Eric,
>
> > > > If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. �I would not be 
> > > > suprised if
> > > > they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with 
> > > > the
> > > > change to the top tube.
>
> > > > Dan Abelson
> > > > St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[happyriding]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.

On Apr 6, 10:10 am, Dave Craig  wrote:
> Interesting. Have you noted that not single person who replied to your
> post recommended the Arkel 54 panniers??
>
> Here's why I didn't:
>
> Tremendously overbuilt and oversized - this results in increased
> weight. Compared with the Ortlieb backrollers, this translates to
> about 2 pounds extra per pair empty. As you know, if you are flying
> anywhere these days, extra weight in your luggage costs money.
>
> Extra capacity - The Arkels are 54 liters per pair versus 40 liters
> per pair for the Ortieb back rollers. Extra capacity might seem like a
> good thing, but it encourages over packing. EVERY tourist I've seen on
> the road who has the Arkel 54 panniers has been carrying a lot of
> unnecessary (for me) stuff and this adds up to even more weight you'll
> have to roll up hills. Weight is additive - heavier panniers and more
> stuff means you'll need a heavier bike frame, heavier wheels, heavier
> tires - I can pack EVERYTHING for a 2 month tour INSIDE my front and
> rear roller Ortliebs with no load on top of the racks.

Yes, I noticed they looked kind of BIG.  However, I wondered if the
intent of the design was to allow you to forgo front panniers.  Will a
bike handle better without front panniers?  Or is it better to have
some weight on the front too?


> Traveling as
> light as possible when touring can increase your enjoyment overall.
>

I'm all for packing light.


> I
> usually have plenty of energy left at the end of a day to go for
> another bike ride (unloaded) or a hike, and I'm not afraid to explore
> interesting side roads or go a little extra distance to a campsite
> that might be a bit nicer than the one I'd planned.
>
> On the topic of visibility - The red used on the Arkel panniers isn't
> really all that visible.
>

Yeah, the Arkel panniers look like they are kind of a dull red color.


> First, your panniers are down low and present
> a minimal profile from the rear.
> If you are truly concerned with
> visibility on the road, wear a safety yellow or safety orange vest or
> jersey. Second, compared with yellow, red isn't all that visible,
> especially in low light. The reflective triangles on the back of
> Ortieb panniers are stunningly bright when ANY light hits them.
>

Yes, I understand that, but I don't like the black color on the back
of the panniers.  They should be hi vis yellow all the way around.
Every little bit helps.  As far as I can tell, there is no reason for
the back of the panniers to be black.  I guess I could hang some high
vis triangles off the back.

> Lastly, I find brightly colored panniers to be a double edged sword.
> There are times when I prefer to be less visible so as to avoid
> unwanted attention - as when choosing "creative" camping
> possibilities. Again, on the road, I wear a highly visible vest and
> the back of my bike sports a yellow safety triangle.
>
> Cost - Ortiebs aren't cheap, but come on, $380.00 for a pair of bags??
>

After looking at the Arkel GT-54, the Ortliebs seem downright cheap!
Although, if you only need to buy rear panniers with the Arkel's, then
it is probably going to be pretty close in price for front and rear
Ortliebs.

> REI sells the backrollers for $165.00. The way I travel, that extra
> $215.00 bucks would allow me to spend an extra week or more on the
> road.

I am leaning towards the Orlieb Backpacker Plus panniers.  Still too
big?

>
> Waterproofness - OK, if you are buying the idea that totally
> waterproof bags are not good (I disagree), realize the any decent
> pannier will keep your stuff reasonably dry

I'm thinking about carrying a mesh bag and strapping that to the top
of the rear panniers to dry out anything that is wet.

> Realize also that most
> tourists don't choose to ride day after day, in day-long downpours. Do
> you enjoy riding in the rain now?
>

I hate riding in the rain.  But if I need to get somewhere by a
certain date, then I'll have to ride in the rain.

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[JoelMatthews]

> Here's something I don't understand about the Ortliebs.  I would like
> to get high visibility panniers, like the yellow Ortliebs.  However,
> the back of the panniers is black.

By back do you mean the side that attaches to the rack or the side one
sees from the back and front of the bike?

If the latter, Ortlieb has very reflective pieces on the sides that
face in front and back of the bike.  Almost annoying when if your bike
has a light and your are riding behind someone with Ortliebs.

On Apr 5, 11:29 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> Thanks for the recommendations.
>
> It looks like Arkel's GT-54 panniers offer the best of both worlds:
> they have a dry sack integrated into the main compartment, which you
> can either use or roll up so it is out of the way.  But they are
> extremely expensive at $380.  I guess you could just buy a dry bag and
> put it in a cheaper non-water proof pannier to get the same benefit.
>
> Here's something I don't understand about the Ortliebs.  I would like
> to get high visibility panniers, like the yellow Ortliebs.  However,
> the back of the panniers is black. Why did Ortlieb do that instead of
> making the whole thing high vis yellow?  That is one thing I like
> about the Arkels: the whole pannier is red and there's lots of
> reflective striping.

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[JoelMatthews]

> Yes, I understand that, but I don't like the black color on the back
> of the panniers.  They should be hi vis yellow all the way around.
> Every little bit helps.  As far as I can tell, there is no reason for
> the back of the panniers to be black.  I guess I could hang some high
> vis triangles off the back.

You say you understand, but your response does not reflect this.

The Ortlieb reflector is high visibility.  Very high visibility.
Putting triangles of other material over the Ortlieb will make your
bike less visible.

On Apr 6, 12:52 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.
>
> On Apr 6, 10:10 am, Dave Craig  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Interesting. Have you noted that not single person who replied to your
> > post recommended the Arkel 54 panniers??
>
> > Here's why I didn't:
>
> > Tremendously overbuilt and oversized - this results in increased
> > weight. Compared with the Ortlieb backrollers, this translates to
> > about 2 pounds extra per pair empty. As you know, if you are flying
> > anywhere these days, extra weight in your luggage costs money.
>
> > Extra capacity - The Arkels are 54 liters per pair versus 40 liters
> > per pair for the Ortieb back rollers. Extra capacity might seem like a
> > good thing, but it encourages over packing. EVERY tourist I've seen on
> > the road who has the Arkel 54 panniers has been carrying a lot of
> > unnecessary (for me) stuff and this adds up to even more weight you'll
> > have to roll up hills. Weight is additive - heavier panniers and more
> > stuff means you'll need a heavier bike frame, heavier wheels, heavier
> > tires - I can pack EVERYTHING for a 2 month tour INSIDE my front and
> > rear roller Ortliebs with no load on top of the racks.
>
> Yes, I noticed they looked kind of BIG.  However, I wondered if the
> intent of the design was to allow you to forgo front panniers.  Will a
> bike handle better without front panniers?  Or is it better to have
> some weight on the front too?
>
> > Traveling as
> > light as possible when touring can increase your enjoyment overall.
>
> I'm all for packing light.
>
> > I
> > usually have plenty of energy left at the end of a day to go for
> > another bike ride (unloaded) or a hike, and I'm not afraid to explore
> > interesting side roads or go a little extra distance to a campsite
> > that might be a bit nicer than the one I'd planned.
>
> > On the topic of visibility - The red used on the Arkel panniers isn't
> > really all that visible.
>
> Yeah, the Arkel panniers look like they are kind of a dull red color.
>
> > First, your panniers are down low and present
> > a minimal profile from the rear.
> > If you are truly concerned with
> > visibility on the road, wear a safety yellow or safety orange vest or
> > jersey. Second, compared with yellow, red isn't all that visible,
> > especially in low light. The reflective triangles on the back of
> > Ortieb panniers are stunningly bright when ANY light hits them.
>
> Yes, I understand that, but I don't like the black color on the back
> of the panniers.  They should be hi vis yellow all the way around.
> Every little bit helps.  As far as I can tell, there is no reason for
> the back of the panniers to be black.  I guess I could hang some high
> vis triangles off the back.
>
> > Lastly, I find brightly colored panniers to be a double edged sword.
> > There are times when I prefer to be less visible so as to avoid
> > unwanted attention - as when choosing "creative" camping
> > possibilities. Again, on the road, I wear a highly visible vest and
> > the back of my bike sports a yellow safety triangle.
>
> > Cost - Ortiebs aren't cheap, but come on, $380.00 for a pair of bags??
>
> After looking at the Arkel GT-54, the Ortliebs seem downright cheap!
> Although, if you only need to buy rear panniers with the Arkel's, then
> it is probably going to be pretty close in price for front and rear
> Ortliebs.
>
> > REI sells the backrollers for $165.00. The way I travel, that extra
> > $215.00 bucks would allow me to spend an extra week or more on the
> > road.
>
> I am leaning towards the Orlieb Backpacker Plus panniers.  Still too
> big?
>
>
>
> > Waterproofness - OK, if you are buying the idea that totally
> > waterproof bags are not good (I disagree), realize the any decent
> > pannier will keep your stuff reasonably dry
>
> I'm thinking about carrying a mesh bag and strapping that to the top
> of the rear panniers to dry out anything that is wet.
>
> > Realize also that most
> > tourists don't choose to ride day after day, in day-long downpours. Do
> > you enjoy riding in the rain now?
>
> I hate riding in the rain.  But if I need to get somewhere by a
> certain date, then I'll have to ride in the rain.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[Dave Craig]

On Apr 6, 10:52 am, happyriding  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.
>
> Yes, I noticed they looked kind of BIG.  However, I wondered if the
> intent of the design was to allow you to forgo front panniers.  Will a
> bike handle better without front panniers?  Or is it better to have
> some weight on the front too?

I've ridden on tours both ways. Long ago, most of us toured with just
rear panniers. Both my wife and I now prefer our bikes with a little
more weight in the front and a little less in the rear. We pack heavy,
dense stuff in the front panniers and lighter bulky stuff in the rear.
If I had to put numbers to it, the distribution seems about 60% front
and 40% rear. Remember that when you are actually riding your bike,
your body weight is carried more on the rear wheel, so by packing
heavier in the front, the bike ends up being balanced front to rear.
>

> I am leaning towards the Orlieb Backpacker Plus panniers.  Still too
> big?

Well, those are about 10 liters bigger than the roller panniers. Truth
be told, the rear panniers I now prefer are the Carradice Super C's -
those are 54liters - the same as the Arkels! BUT . . . I have a lot of
self restraint about what I choose to take. I only prefer the
Carradice panniers because I like the canvas! This is the RBW group,
afterall!

> > Waterproofness - OK, if you are buying the idea that totally
> > waterproof bags are not good (I disagree), realize the any decent
> > pannier will keep your stuff reasonably dry
>
> I'm thinking about carrying a mesh bag and strapping that to the top
> of the rear panniers to dry out anything that is wet.

Great idea! I just bungee wet stuff on top of the load (usually just a
pair of bike shorts that hasn't dried yet). I also carry nylon cord
for a clothesline in camp. If you double the line and twist it tight,
you can insert corners of your clothes into the twists instead of
using clothespins. I told you I travel light! Also remember that most
bike touring in the US travels by stores and towns - 15 minutes at a
laundromat and your stuff is dry again.
>
> > Realize also that most
> > tourists don't choose to ride day after day, in day-long downpours. Do
> > you enjoy riding in the rain now?
>
> I hate riding in the rain.  But if I need to get somewhere by a
> certain date, then I'll have to ride in the rain.

I've noticed that many people who buy outdoor gear (kayaks, backpacks,
touring bikes, sleeping bags, etc) tend to over buy based on what they
might do or experience instead of what they'll do 95% of the time. If
you hate riding in the rain, you probably won't do it very often. If
you have to, ANY pannier will work lined with a plastic trash bag.
Waterproof packs are a convenience, not a necessity.

Dave

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[RBW] So Cal Riv & Friends Ride - San Diego May 1 or 2

[Esteban]

For those of you who read this on the Internets, you might have lost
Dustin's announcement in another thread.  Here it is:


Dustin Sharp

Details posted on the Flickr site:

http://tinyurl.com/yfqjuj9
And for those of you who don't like to click links, you will find the
details below:

OK, this is it folks, the rough riders ride to equal if not beat the
best of
the best. You will not be sorry, unless you don't come.
We're going to do a version of the Boulder Creek Loop that the Rough
Riders
did last July:

http://www.xo-1.org/2009_07_01_archive.html

This version will be shorter than the original RR version at "only"
40+
miles and 5000 feet of climbing, but will involve more dirt. About
80-85%
dirt.

We'll start in the hamlet of Descanso and head north up Boulder Creek
Road,
as you can see on the map below. However, when we get to Lake
Cuyamaca, we
we will head south using fire roads rather than the pavement on route
79.
(Those with skinnier tires or who are feeling tired can still opt for
the
pavement of route 79 and end up in the same place).
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/51619
Basically, you get about half the ride on super smooth dirt road and
the
second half on fire road with almost no traffic at all. It's about as
good
as it gets. The ride itself takes about 5.5hrs+. You will not wish for
more.
There is one stop for water and food refueling at the half way point.
Camelback or 3 bottles recommended.

You will climb.

If you want to take the fire roads in the second half of the ride,
something
fatter than 35s is recommended. Otherwise, the pavement may be the
better
option.

Yes, yes, Descanso is far from LA. But just pretend you are a
hardened
mountain biker. We routinely drive 2.5 hrs up to do the Palm Canyon
Epic or
SART. It's worth driving for an epic ride! Don't wuss out and make
mountain
bikers laugh at you because you are afraid to drive or commit a whole
day
for some nice dirt.

We may look into getting a University of San Diego apt/crash pad if
folks
want to drive up the night before. This depends on folks committing to
the
ride and expressing an interest in it. If you come the night before,
dinner
and beer will be scheduled.

Finally, please let us know if it would make a difference if we do it
on May
1 or 2.  Thanks!

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[RBW] Rambouillet For Sale

[Larry Hofstetter]

Check the link. This bicycle has not been ridden since painted by Joe Bell

http://crown-city-cyclists.org/MR.htm

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[M. Chandler]

Any recommendation for small-ish panniers for commuting?  I'm looking
at:

Lone Peak P-099
Lone Peak P-100
Arkel B-26

They'll be going on a Tubus Cosmo if that makes any difference.

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[Garth]

If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ?
Design is one thing, but what about practicality?

While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all
about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better.
Double top tubes parallel
looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand
mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't.

I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so
popular . why are they not sold in mass?
I see a warmish response here in this forum  but you know how some
things go . people say they love the design . but when it
comes time to actually
buy and own one . "personal reality" checks in. . .  . and they
may not want it.  It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike
show  it looks great  you drool over it ...
but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's
too far "out of the norm". What would so and so think? ... etc.

The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere.




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[RBW] What was I thinking?!

[MichaelH]

All winter long I kept reading about bikes; until I was convinced I
must need a new one - something lighter, faster, or something with
bigger tires, maybe 650B, or S&S couplers...  Then Spring came and I
got out the "old" bikes and really started riding.  Wow, this is
great; I don't need a new bike just a lot more time to ride the ones I
got.

OK, I confess, I'm still waiting for my new tandem - Cinco de Mayo.
As my friend Zed often reminds me, "Happiness isn't having what you
want, it's wanting what you have!"

Michael,
Off to SF for two weeks, but no dang bike with me.

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[RBW] Re: What was I thinking?!

[William]

Michael

Here's a 45 second movie from my commute to work this morning.  San
Francisco, Oakland, Alcatraz, and all the bridges present and
accounted for.  Pretty morning.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758...@n04/4497088113/

On Apr 6, 12:56 pm, MichaelH  wrote:
> All winter long I kept reading about bikes; until I was convinced I
> must need a new one - something lighter, faster, or something with
> bigger tires, maybe 650B, or S&S couplers...  Then Spring came and I
> got out the "old" bikes and really started riding.  Wow, this is
> great; I don't need a new bike just a lot more time to ride the ones I
> got.
>
> OK, I confess, I'm still waiting for my new tandem - Cinco de Mayo.
> As my friend Zed often reminds me, "Happiness isn't having what you
> want, it's wanting what you have!"
>
> Michael,
> Off to SF for two weeks, but no dang bike with me.

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[RBW] Heron may rise again!

[JoelMatthews]

http://www.bicycleclassics.com/

Right column, six paragraphs from the bottom.  Brief blurb, but it
appears Bicycle
Classics may be taking over production of the Heron bicycle which has
been dormant since Todd Kuzma made the painful decision to stop
production.

I hope this is correct. Herons, whether made by Riv or Todd have
always been great, sensible bikes for the money.  Bicycle Classics is
a nice operation.  Greg (the proprietor) is a great and honest person
who knows a lot about bikes.

Only thing is maybe instead of Heron Greg should call it the Phoenix!

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Re: [RBW] Heron may rise again!

[Murray Love]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:10 PM, JoelMatthews  wrote:

> http://www.bicycleclassics.com/
>
> Right column, six paragraphs from the bottom.  Brief blurb, but it
> appears Bicycle
> Classics may be taking over production of the Heron bicycle which has
> been dormant since Todd Kuzma made the painful decision to stop
> production.
>
> I hope this is correct. Herons, whether made by Riv or Todd have
> always been great, sensible bikes for the money.  Bicycle Classics is
> a nice operation.  Greg (the proprietor) is a great and honest person
> who knows a lot about bikes.
>
> Only thing is maybe instead of Heron Greg should call it the Phoenix!
>
>
That is good news.  Even better, I note that these Herons will use
non-oversize tubing, while I believe the originals used OS road tubing.

Murray
Victoria, BC

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[happyriding]

On Apr 6, 11:56 am, JoelMatthews  wrote:
> > Here's something I don't understand about the Ortliebs.  I would like
> > to get high visibility panniers, like the yellow Ortliebs.  However,
> > the back of the panniers is black.
>
> By back do you mean the side that attaches to the rack or the side one
> sees from the back and front of the bike?
>
> If the latter, Ortlieb has very reflective pieces on the sides that
> face in front and back of the bike.  Almost annoying when if your bike
> has a light and your are riding behind someone with Ortliebs.
>

I'm talking about the side of the pannier that faces rearward.  I call
that the back, but I guess if you are in the know about panniers, the
back of the pannier actually goes against the rack, and one of the
sides faces rearward.

As far as I know, it doesn't matter what color background a reflector
is stuck to.   So having a less visible color for the rearward facing
side of the pannier, i.e. black instead of hi vis yellow, strikes me
as being a flaw in the design.  Someone who buys hi vis panniers wants
to be seen.  Personally, I feel that I am most vulnerable to cars
coming from the rear.  Therefore, I would prefer having the entirety
of the Ortlieb pannier in hi vis yellow.  My second choice would be a
pannier that was all black with the rear hi vis yellow.

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Re: [RBW] Diagonapillar

[Rene Sterental]

I will apologize first, but do think this "triangapillar" is just
taking the discussion to a silly level.

As a Bombadil owner I didn't see the point of "copying" the design and
making it $500 cheaper in Taiwan, even though I wish the Bombadil
sizes were adjusted to match the new proposed Hunqa sizes.

The diagonal second tube ala "mixte" I find very charming and visually
appealing, as well as differentiating it from the Bombadil. Assuming
equal functionality, one can now choose the design they like best and
the price difference as well as origin of the frame can become
secondary.

That being said, I have no idea on the implications of these design
variations on the quality of the ride. I do love riding my Bombadil;
it's taught me to ride slow and enjoy the ride more. Before, it was
always a frustrating experience of trying to ride hard to lower my
average speed...

I'm very curious to see where the Hunqa takes us...

René

On 4/6/10, happyriding  wrote:
> On Apr 5, 6:16 pm, William  wrote:
>> Eric
>>
>> I don't think anyone should or would fault you for not wanting to
>> follow through on buying a bike that changed into something you don't
>> like.
>>
>> Personally, the only thing you said that I thought was a bit unfair
>> was the statement that the bike seemed like a 'half-hearted copy' of
>> another bike.  I don't know Grant or Keven well enough to really know
>> how they might feel about reading that, but I can't imagine it being
>> pleasant.  I don't think Grant or Keven is a copycat,
>>
>
> As far as I can tell, there is nothing about the shape of Rivendell's
> bicycles that hasn't been done before.  There are very few creative
> new bike designs.  But, I think I have discovered one.  I call it the
> Trianga-pillar:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4495790421/
>
> Patent pending.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> and I don't
>> think they approach bike design half-heartedly, and I bet you don't
>> either.  It's fine being honest about subjective things like the
>> design is 'jarring' or even ugly if that's the way you feel.
>>
>> On Apr 5, 4:57 pm, EricP  wrote:
>>
>> > I'm owning up.  It's me that has the refund.  Mainly due to the
>> > thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered.  It may be good, but
>> > not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf.  The new bike is
>> > also too jarring to me visually.
>>
>> > Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord.  Not my
>> > wish.  Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas.
>>
>> > Am not mad at Rivendell at all.  The blame (if there is any) lies
>> > squarely with me in this case.
>>
>> > Eric Platt
>> > St. Paul, MN
>>
>> > On Apr 5, 6:00 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>>
>> > > If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off
>> > > the boat. I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. Having ridden the
>> > > prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. This diagonal-fest will
>> > > only make them more solid. And more awesome.
>>
>> > > And these were never svelte bikes. They are intended to be tanks,
>> > > plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot)
>> > > for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and
>> > > Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting.
>>
>> > > Patience is a virtue. I'm liking this bike more and more.
>>
>> > > Esteban
>> > > San Diego, Calif.
>>
>> > > On Apr 5, 3:48 pm, Beth  wrote:
>>
>> > > > Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices
>> > > > you
>> > > > 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
>> > > > still not tall.
>>
>> > > > Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
>> > > > it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
>> > > > resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)
>>
>> > > > On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William  wrote:
>>
>> > > > > No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy.
>>
>> > > > > On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson  wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP 
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my
>> > > > > > > view
>> > > > > > > too much. Also makes it look like it's a "fatty" bike. Fine.
>> > > > > > > I'm
>> > > > > > > fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm
>> > > > > > > stuck
>> > > > > > > riding a "special" bike.
>>
>> > > > > > > With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the
>> > > > > > > original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the
>> > > > > > > Schwinn
>> > > > > > > Excelsior frame.
>>
>> > > > > > > Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube,
>> > > > > > > would make
>> > > > > > > it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in
>> > > > > > > without
>> > > > > > > interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a
>> > > > > > > mount
>> > > > > > > like the Topeak Morph series.
>>
>> > > > > > > Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to cop

[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[Dave Craig]

No recommendations/experience with the ones you are looking at.

For me, the choice of panniers depends on how committed you are to
commuting. If you ride rain or shine and want a pair of panniers that
are easy to use and waterproof, the small Ortlieb sport packers or
front rollers are great (25-30 liters per pair). I've used these on a
rear rack. They attach/detach quickly when you park or put your bike
on the front of a bus. I've also found that I'm able to commute
comfortably with a single Ortlieb backroller (single 20 liters). I
also use a waterproof backpack for days when I have a little extra to
carry (SealLine brand) or I add a second backroller.

Riv content - my favorite commuting set up is on my QB. Unless I'm
taking the semi (below), it is the system I now use instead of racks
and panniers. I use a light messenger bag over my shoulder and a
medium basket/nitto front rack with a small duffel bag. On days when I
carry a bit more, I stuff the messenger bag in the aforementioned
waterproof backpack and add the other stuff on top.

At the far end of the committed bicycle commuting spectrum, I have my
semi-truck - a Surly Big Dummy with a Burley Nomad trailer!

Dave

On Apr 6, 11:56 am, "M. Chandler"  wrote:
> Any recommendation for small-ish panniers for commuting?  I'm looking
> at:
>
> Lone Peak P-099
> Lone Peak P-100
> Arkel B-26
>
> They'll be going on a Tubus Cosmo if that makes any difference.

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[JoelMatthews]

> As far as I know, it doesn't matter what color background a reflector
> is stuck to.   So having a less visible color for the rearward facing
> side of the pannier, i.e. black instead of hi vis yellow, strikes me
> as being a flaw in the design.

Ortlieb designs its panniers to German government safety standards. I
expect there has been a lot of research behind the material color
choice.

When I come up behind someone with Ortliebs on tour, I always notice
the reflectors first.  Well before I can make out any detail of the
bike or rider.

On Apr 6, 3:27 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> On Apr 6, 11:56 am, JoelMatthews  wrote:
>
> > > Here's something I don't understand about the Ortliebs.  I would like
> > > to get high visibility panniers, like the yellow Ortliebs.  However,
> > > the back of the panniers is black.
>
> > By back do you mean the side that attaches to the rack or the side one
> > sees from the back and front of the bike?
>
> > If the latter, Ortlieb has very reflective pieces on the sides that
> > face in front and back of the bike.  Almost annoying when if your bike
> > has a light and your are riding behind someone with Ortliebs.
>
> I'm talking about the side of the pannier that faces rearward.  I call
> that the back, but I guess if you are in the know about panniers, the
> back of the pannier actually goes against the rack, and one of the
> sides faces rearward.
>
> As far as I know, it doesn't matter what color background a reflector
> is stuck to.   So having a less visible color for the rearward facing
> side of the pannier, i.e. black instead of hi vis yellow, strikes me
> as being a flaw in the design.  Someone who buys hi vis panniers wants
> to be seen.  Personally, I feel that I am most vulnerable to cars
> coming from the rear.  Therefore, I would prefer having the entirety
> of the Ortlieb pannier in hi vis yellow.  My second choice would be a
> pannier that was all black with the rear hi vis yellow.

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[RBW] Re: Heron may rise again!

[JoelMatthews]

> Even better, I note that these Herons will use non-oversize tubing,

All the better to use some of the nice stuff BC sells.

On Apr 6, 3:22 pm, Murray Love  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:10 PM, JoelMatthews  wrote:
> >http://www.bicycleclassics.com/
>
> > Right column, six paragraphs from the bottom.  Brief blurb, but it
> > appears Bicycle
> > Classics may be taking over production of the Heron bicycle which has
> > been dormant since Todd Kuzma made the painful decision to stop
> > production.
>
> > I hope this is correct. Herons, whether made by Riv or Todd have
> > always been great, sensible bikes for the money.  Bicycle Classics is
> > a nice operation.  Greg (the proprietor) is a great and honest person
> > who knows a lot about bikes.
>
> > Only thing is maybe instead of Heron Greg should call it the Phoenix!
>
> That is good news.  Even better, I note that these Herons will use
> non-oversize tubing, while I believe the originals used OS road tubing.
>
> Murray
> Victoria, BC- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[JoelMatthews]

> As a Bombadil owner I didn't see the point of "copying" the design and
> making it $500 cheaper in Taiwan, even though I wish the Bombadil
> sizes were adjusted to match the new proposed Hunqa sizes.

With you on that.  The Hilborne does Hilsen things but its design is
notably different.  I had trouble getting the reason for the Hunqa
before the design change.

> The diagonal second tube ala "mixte" I find very charming and visually
> appealing, as well as differentiating it from the Bombadil. Assuming
> equal functionality, one can now choose the design they like best and
> the price difference as well as origin of the frame can become
> secondary.

Agree again.  A proud and happy owner of a Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road,
I need one of these bikes as much as I need a new hole in my head.
Bringing back the diagonal second tube caught my attention.  A lot of
great old builders used the concept to good effect in days gone by.
It would be fun to have a modern variation.

On Apr 6, 3:34 pm, Rene Sterental  wrote:
> I will apologize first, but do think this "triangapillar" is just
> taking the discussion to a silly level.
>
> As a Bombadil owner I didn't see the point of "copying" the design and
> making it $500 cheaper in Taiwan, even though I wish the Bombadil
> sizes were adjusted to match the new proposed Hunqa sizes.
>
> The diagonal second tube ala "mixte" I find very charming and visually
> appealing, as well as differentiating it from the Bombadil. Assuming
> equal functionality, one can now choose the design they like best and
> the price difference as well as origin of the frame can become
> secondary.
>
> That being said, I have no idea on the implications of these design
> variations on the quality of the ride. I do love riding my Bombadil;
> it's taught me to ride slow and enjoy the ride more. Before, it was
> always a frustrating experience of trying to ride hard to lower my
> average speed...
>
> I'm very curious to see where the Hunqa takes us...
>
> René
>
> On 4/6/10, happyriding  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 6:16 pm, William  wrote:
> >> Eric
>
> >> I don't think anyone should or would fault you for not wanting to
> >> follow through on buying a bike that changed into something you don't
> >> like.
>
> >> Personally, the only thing you said that I thought was a bit unfair
> >> was the statement that the bike seemed like a 'half-hearted copy' of
> >> another bike.  I don't know Grant or Keven well enough to really know
> >> how they might feel about reading that, but I can't imagine it being
> >> pleasant.  I don't think Grant or Keven is a copycat,
>
> > As far as I can tell, there is nothing about the shape of Rivendell's
> > bicycles that hasn't been done before.  There are very few creative
> > new bike designs.  But, I think I have discovered one.  I call it the
> > Trianga-pillar:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4495790421/
>
> > Patent pending.
>
> > and I don't
> >> think they approach bike design half-heartedly, and I bet you don't
> >> either.  It's fine being honest about subjective things like the
> >> design is 'jarring' or even ugly if that's the way you feel.
>
> >> On Apr 5, 4:57 pm, EricP  wrote:
>
> >> > I'm owning up.  It's me that has the refund.  Mainly due to the
> >> > thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered.  It may be good, but
> >> > not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf.  The new bike is
> >> > also too jarring to me visually.
>
> >> > Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord.  Not my
> >> > wish.  Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas.
>
> >> > Am not mad at Rivendell at all.  The blame (if there is any) lies
> >> > squarely with me in this case.
>
> >> > Eric Platt
> >> > St. Paul, MN
>
> >> > On Apr 5, 6:00 pm, Esteban  wrote:
>
> >> > > If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off
> >> > > the boat. I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. Having ridden the
> >> > > prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. This diagonal-fest will
> >> > > only make them more solid. And more awesome.
>
> >> > > And these were never svelte bikes. They are intended to be tanks,
> >> > > plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot)
> >> > > for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and
> >> > > Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting.
>
> >> > > Patience is a virtue. I'm liking this bike more and more.
>
> >> > > Esteban
> >> > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> >> > > On Apr 5, 3:48 pm, Beth  wrote:
>
> >> > > > Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices
> >> > > > you
> >> > > > 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and
> >> > > > still not tall.
>
> >> > > > Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't
> >> > > > it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly
> >> > > > resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.)
>
> >> > > > On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William  wrote:
>
> >> > > 

[RBW] Achilles pain

[Shawn]

After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

On Apr 6, 2:34 pm, Rene Sterental  wrote:
> I will apologize first, but do think this "triangapillar" is just
> taking the discussion to a silly level.
>

Somewhat.  But from an engineering standpoint, three triangles are
stronger than two.  So technically, it is a stronger design than the
diaga-piller.  Also, I question whether the diaga-piller, which I
hereby dub the dragon-pillar because it rolls off the tongue easier,
is actually stronger.  It creates two flattish somewhat triangular
shapes.  The flatness is the problem, I think.  Not much strength in
that.  And really, they aren't even triangles to begin with.  I would
like to see some test results.

I also wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like the
Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how
does that affect the handling?

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[newenglandbike]

Geez...  could be anything;  could be you just over extended it.
Could be an over-use injury caused by the 80mi ride, or might not even
have anything to do with it.

I've had various strange injuries and muscle pains here and there
since I was a teenager riding a skateboard, and probably even before
that.To be honest, as a somewhat active person I've gotten so used
to the process I don't even give it a second thought-   1) not having
a clue why something hurts, 2) waiting a couple of days, 3) forgetting
it hurt in the first place... and the cycle begins anew.

I'd take a couple few days off, and see if it resolves itself.   If
not, maybe visit your doctor about it.


On Apr 6, 5:17 pm, Shawn  wrote:
> After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
> rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[happyriding]

On Apr 6, 3:17 pm, Shawn  wrote:
> After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
> rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?

Do your pedals have float?  New pedals or old pedals?

Your saddle might be too high.  Any recent changes?

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[RBW] Re: Kickstands

[Dave Craig]

Looked at the VO stand. Perhaps I'll give that one a try before I give
up on center stands.

Thanks

On Apr 5, 11:00 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Dave Craig  wrote:
>
> > In my experience with my 60 cm Bombadil, I found the center Esge 2 leg
> > stand to be unstable on anything but dead flat, hard ground. I mention
> > the size of the bike because I wondered whether the height provided a
> > greater lever for destabilizing it.
>
> > I agree that the Esge is not all that stable even on flat concrete and, on
>
> soft surfaces, it's no better than your $12.95 bb Greenfield. BUT *I*
> use the VO stand which (1) is wider and (2) has these cute little plastic
> feet that give more support. Considerably better.
>
> But I agree that a rear-triangle-mount stand seems to be best unless you
> really want to keep your bike upright when you remove a wheel (which I do).
>
> Patrick Moore, grimly bottom-trimming.

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Roy Yates]

Mike and Jan,

It's a great day when you find out that your wishes had already been
granted.

Thanks,
...Roy :)


On Apr 6, 10:19 am, jan_heine  wrote:
> > My suggestion would be that BQ articles on new bikes and
> > equipment have an associated online archive of color photos.
>
> The online full-color archives already exists:
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/biketests.html(test bikes)
>
> and
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/image-archive.html(classic bikes)
>
> Regarding the question of paper vs. electronic, most of us spend
> enough time looking at a screen. Sitting on the sofa with my children
> and reading a paper book or magazine is truly quality time. Beyond
> that, much of the research in Bicycle Quarterly hopefully will endure
> the ages. And for that, paper is invaluable. Web sites come and go,
> discs become illegible, but paper endures. If Velocio hadn't printed
> Le Cycliste on paper, we wouldn't know much about the early days of
> cyclotouring. And Rebour's wonderful drawings would be long-lost if
> they hadn't been printed on paper. I recently found an article that
> described how the "low-trail" geometries were developed... finally
> answering some of the questions I've had for years. My take is that if
> it's something you plan to keep, and if it's important,  paper is
> good. If it's read once and then discarded, electronic is better.
>
> Compared to all the paper you get in the mail every year, four issues
> of Bicycle Quarterly don't make a huge impact. We use a local printer
> and recycled paper, and most of the magazines are carried to the post
> office by bike, so we are actively reducing our environmental impact.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[doug peterson]

Shawn:

Have you done much riding this season?  Is this a significantly longer
distance than normal?  New terrain?  More hills?  80 miles coming off
this winter (depending on where you live) could be over-doing it a
bit.  New bike?  Changes from the old bike?  Could be a lot of stuff.

dougP

On Apr 6, 2:17 pm, Shawn  wrote:
> After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
> rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstands

[PATRICK MOORE]

Note: large, heavy, clunky and, since the legs don't retract as fully as the
Pletscher's, your chain may rub on them, though you can adjust the degree to
which the legs do retract (or their retracted angle, if you prefer) which is
what I did to solve the rubbing problem -- there is a set screw that allows
you to reduce the degree of retraction. But, still, if a stand's job is to
support a bike, IME, the VO works considerably better than the Pletscher.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Dave Craig  wrote:

> Looked at the VO stand. Perhaps I'll give that one a try before I give
> up on center stands.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Apr 5, 11:00 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Dave Craig  wrote:
> >
> > > In my experience with my 60 cm Bombadil, I found the center Esge 2 leg
> > > stand to be unstable on anything but dead flat, hard ground. I mention
> > > the size of the bike because I wondered whether the height provided a
> > > greater lever for destabilizing it.
> >
> > > I agree that the Esge is not all that stable even on flat concrete and,
> on
> >
> > soft surfaces, it's no better than your $12.95 bb Greenfield. BUT *I*
> > use the VO stand which (1) is wider and (2) has these cute little plastic
> > feet that give more support. Considerably better.
> >
> > But I agree that a rear-triangle-mount stand seems to be best unless you
> > really want to keep your bike upright when you remove a wheel (which I
> do).
> >
> > Patrick Moore, grimly bottom-trimming.
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
>


-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstands

[Dave Lloyd]

I've used the Pletscher on a bike (now sold) and the Hebie bipod on my
wife's bike.  The Hebie is truly panzeresque in both its build quality and
weight, but an extra kilo won't hurt too bad on a utility bike.  I did have
to shim a bit with a piece of aluminum bar stock so the inside of the bipod
wouldn't rub on the 700x37 tire on her bike, but it works great to keep the
bike stable when the Burley's attached.

--dlloyd



On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 16:43, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:

> Note: large, heavy, clunky and, since the legs don't retract as fully as
> the Pletscher's, your chain may rub on them, though you can adjust the
> degree to which the legs do retract (or their retracted angle, if you
> prefer) which is what I did to solve the rubbing problem -- there is a set
> screw that allows you to reduce the degree of retraction. But, still, if a
> stand's job is to support a bike, IME, the VO works considerably better than
> the Pletscher.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[Shawn]

Nothing has changed in my set up. The pedals are almost two yrs old.
What is pedal float?

On Apr 6, 5:31 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> On Apr 6, 3:17 pm, Shawn  wrote:
>
> > After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
> > rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?
>
> Do your pedals have float?  New pedals or old pedals?
>
> Your saddle might be too high.  Any recent changes?

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[JoelMatthews]

> From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
> large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
> is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like the
> Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how
> does that affect the handling?

Yes, we all know that Grant is a real slouch when it comes to
designing bikes that handle well.

On Apr 6, 4:22 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> On Apr 6, 2:34 pm, Rene Sterental  wrote:
>
> > I will apologize first, but do think this "triangapillar" is just
> > taking the discussion to a silly level.
>
> Somewhat.  But from an engineering standpoint, three triangles are
> stronger than two.  So technically, it is a stronger design than the
> diaga-piller.  Also, I question whether the diaga-piller, which I
> hereby dub the dragon-pillar because it rolls off the tongue easier,
> is actually stronger.  It creates two flattish somewhat triangular
> shapes.  The flatness is the problem, I think.  Not much strength in
> that.  And really, they aren't even triangles to begin with.  I would
> like to see some test results.
>
> I also wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
> on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
> tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
> road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
> stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
> large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
> is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like the
> Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how
> does that affect the handling?

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[RBW] Bombadil and short stems

[Dave Craig]

I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.
I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
8cm dirt drop.

My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
slowing down the steering response a bit.

Dave

On Apr 6, 2:22 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> On Apr 6, 2:34 pm, Rene Sterental  wrote:
>
> > I will apologize first, but do think this "triangapillar" is just
> > taking the discussion to a silly level.
>
> Somewhat.  But from an engineering standpoint, three triangles are
> stronger than two.  So technically, it is a stronger design than the
> diaga-piller.  Also, I question whether the diaga-piller, which I
> hereby dub the dragon-pillar because it rolls off the tongue easier,
> is actually stronger.  It creates two flattish somewhat triangular
> shapes.  The flatness is the problem, I think.  Not much strength in
> that.  And really, they aren't even triangles to begin with.  I would
> like to see some test results.
>
> I also wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
> on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
> tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
> road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
> stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
> large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
> is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like the
> Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how
> does that affect the handling?

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[RBW] Re: pannier recommendations

[jinxed]

I'll just chime in a vote for the Axiom Monsoon bags. Pluses as I see
them:

-Similar wet bag type design as Ortlieb
-EZ on EZ off
-Not too big (1510ci) although the drybag materials make for a heavier
bag
-Pretty cheap in comparison - @ $150/set
-Red/Yellow/ or Grey all with reflective trim

$.02

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[newenglandbike]

pedal float just means that your foot can move around on the pedals,
and my understanding is that some clip systems have some extra degrees-
of-freedom built-in.If you foot is locked in one position on the
pedal, it might lead to RSI (repetitive stress injury).   If it keeps
hurting, you should have a doctor who specializes in sports-related
stuff take a look at it, but otherwise I'd recommend giving it some
rest.




On Apr 6, 5:50 pm, Shawn  wrote:
> Nothing has changed in my set up. The pedals are almost two yrs old.
> What is pedal float?
>
> On Apr 6, 5:31 pm, happyriding  wrote:
>
> > On Apr 6, 3:17 pm, Shawn  wrote:
>
> > > After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
> > > rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?
>
> > Do your pedals have float?  New pedals or old pedals?
>
> > Your saddle might be too high.  Any recent changes?

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[Shawn]

Doug,
I have done a couple of 40 mile rides this year. The terrain is the
same. I probably over did it a bit, since the pain was only in my left
Achilles I want to make sure it isn't something in my set up.
Shawn

On Apr 6, 5:40 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
> Shawn:
>
> Have you done much riding this season?  Is this a significantly longer
> distance than normal?  New terrain?  More hills?  80 miles coming off
> this winter (depending on where you live) could be over-doing it a
> bit.  New bike?  Changes from the old bike?  Could be a lot of stuff.
>
> dougP
>
> On Apr 6, 2:17 pm, Shawn  wrote:
>
> > After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
> > rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?

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[RBW] Anyone need some Neo-Retros?

[jinxed]

I received these as my anniversary present 4/4.

As it happens, the Bombadil is moving out.

I no longer have a bike with canti studs.

So before I go the road of trying to exchange them for racers I wanted
to drop a line here.

I would be happy to add a little coin for some used regular racers in
trade.

These are supa fresh with Paul's machine shop air still sealed in the
bags.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2793/4497694955_f0e87502e9_b.jpg

Drop me a line.
Brad
hbcl...@yahoo.com

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[RBW] Re: Bombadil and short stems

[Jim M.]

48cm flat for off-road is very narrow. I use bars that are about 68cm
with a little sweep back on my MTB.

jim m
wc ca

On Apr 6, 2:56 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
> I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.
> I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
> with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
> 8cm dirt drop.
>
> My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
> for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
> bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
> handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
> unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
> to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
> of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
> steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
> putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
> slowing down the steering response a bit.
>
> Dave
>
> On Apr 6, 2:22 pm, happyriding  wrote:
>
> > On Apr 6, 2:34 pm, Rene Sterental  wrote:
>
> > > I will apologize first, but do think this "triangapillar" is just
> > > taking the discussion to a silly level.
>
> > Somewhat.  But from an engineering standpoint, three triangles are
> > stronger than two.  So technically, it is a stronger design than the
> > diaga-piller.  Also, I question whether the diaga-piller, which I
> > hereby dub the dragon-pillar because it rolls off the tongue easier,
> > is actually stronger.  It creates two flattish somewhat triangular
> > shapes.  The flatness is the problem, I think.  Not much strength in
> > that.  And really, they aren't even triangles to begin with.  I would
> > like to see some test results.
>
> > I also wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
> > on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
> > tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
> > road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
> > stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
> > large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
> > is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like the
> > Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how
> > does that affect the handling?

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[RBW] Re: Heron may rise again!

[jinxed]

The Herons were really beautifully understated too. I was lucky to see
one here in Denver while on a ride and it was gorgeous. I snapped a
decent picture and used it as my desktop for a long while...then
killed my laptop and lost it.

Never did meet up with the owner. If you have/had an icy bluish grey
59ish Heron in Denver...I oogled your bike.

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Re: [RBW] UPDATE: FS: Assortment of Riv, White, Nitto Phil :: 64cm Quickbeam FF

[Joe Bunik]

Hi Erik

Just curious-- did you move these bullmooses on yet?

--Bullmoose Bar w/ Levers and Twined'n'Taped Grips. photos. 130.
Used off and on for the past few months, decided to sell my quickbeam,
so no longer can use them. Look new, aside from insertion wear. 185
new.

Would need to rustle up some scratch, but the thought is tempting...

Thanks
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA


On 1/22/10, erik jensen  wrote:
> Here's what I've sold, after all the dust settled several folks backed out
> and it generally took awhile to get through all that. Photos added for the
> quickbeam frameset. If you still want something, and it's still listed
> below, please resend your email.
>
> I've adjusted a few prices, if you think they are still too high please make
> an offer. Please keep in mind, I'm not selling this to just clear room--I'm
> trying to ride the lion of unemployment through yet another pending rent
> check. Thank you all.
>
> Add 5/item for shipping, or pickup in the Berkeley if you can.
>
> --*64cm Rivendell Quickbeam Frameset (orange).*
> photos.
> 700 + actual shipping (obo).
> This was described in a previous email, still available.
>
> --*Bullmoose Bar* w/* Levers and Twined'n'Taped Grips*.
> photos.
> 130.
> Used off and on for the past few months, decided to sell my quickbeam, so no
> longer can use them. Look new, aside from insertion wear. 185 new.
> *
> *
> --*White Industries Double Double* *Crankset and Freewheel Combo* (38/35 x
> 16/19 -- perfect for 700c allrounding).
> photos.
> 250
> Approximately 600 miles of use, really enjoyed these but no longer have a
> single speed. Over 400 new.
> *
> *
> *--Riv/Nitto Saddlebag Quick Release*.
> photo.
> 65.
> Used for a half-dozen commutes, put away. 86 new.
> *
> *
> --Phil Wood FSA Front laced to Mavic A719 w DT Swiss: by Rich Lesnik. photos
> pending. 190.
> Silver Hub & Spokes, black rim. Used on my touring bike until I moved to a
> dynamo setup, 1k miles is a fair estimate. Never had to touch a thing on
> this wheel. Would keep if I had room. 290 new.
> *
> *
> --Phil Wood High Flange 120mm Fixed/Free Hub 36h laced to Mavic A719 w DT
> comp spokes. photos pending. 160.
>
>> *All silver. Less than 1k miles, but I wouldn't worry too much about a
>> phil? I put a tiny ding in the rim once--it was successfully straightened
>> out, but you can feel a slight skip when braking due to the slight
>> imperfection on the brake surface. Never bothered me, but I've priced
>> accordingly because of it. The hub alone cost me 200.*
>>
>
> --CrankBrothers Eggbeater SL (#2 of 2).
> photo.
> 40.
> These are a bit less since they have slight play in the springs, this
> existed when I bought them new, and was never an issue. Paid 100.
> *
> *
> Thanks for reading!
>
> Erik
>
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>

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Re: [RBW] UPDATE: FS: Assortment of Riv, White, Nitto Phil :: 64cm Quickbeam FF

[Joe Bunik]

D'OH, burned by that dreaded reply-to: yet again! To both lists, even! :-P

Apologies
=- Joe

On 4/6/10, Joe Bunik  wrote:
> Hi Erik
>
> Just curious-- did you move these bullmooses on yet?
>
> --Bullmoose Bar w/ Levers and Twined'n'Taped Grips. photos. 130.
> Used off and on for the past few months, decided to sell my quickbeam,
> so no longer can use them. Look new, aside from insertion wear. 185
> new.
>
> Would need to rustle up some scratch, but the thought is tempting...
>
> Thanks
> =- Joe Bunik
> Walnut Creek, CA
>
>
> On 1/22/10, erik jensen  wrote:
>> Here's what I've sold, after all the dust settled several folks backed
>> out
>> and it generally took awhile to get through all that. Photos added for
>> the
>> quickbeam frameset. If you still want something, and it's still listed
>> below, please resend your email.
>>
>> I've adjusted a few prices, if you think they are still too high please
>> make
>> an offer. Please keep in mind, I'm not selling this to just clear
>> room--I'm
>> trying to ride the lion of unemployment through yet another pending rent
>> check. Thank you all.
>>
>> Add 5/item for shipping, or pickup in the Berkeley if you can.
>>
>> --*64cm Rivendell Quickbeam Frameset (orange).*
>> photos.
>> 700 + actual shipping (obo).
>> This was described in a previous email, still available.
>>
>> --*Bullmoose Bar* w/* Levers and Twined'n'Taped Grips*.
>> photos.
>> 130.
>> Used off and on for the past few months, decided to sell my quickbeam, so
>> no
>> longer can use them. Look new, aside from insertion wear. 185 new.
>> *
>> *
>> --*White Industries Double Double* *Crankset and Freewheel Combo* (38/35
>> x
>> 16/19 -- perfect for 700c allrounding).
>> photos.
>> 250
>> Approximately 600 miles of use, really enjoyed these but no longer have a
>> single speed. Over 400 new.
>> *
>> *
>> *--Riv/Nitto Saddlebag Quick Release*.
>> photo.
>> 65.
>> Used for a half-dozen commutes, put away. 86 new.
>> *
>> *
>> --Phil Wood FSA Front laced to Mavic A719 w DT Swiss: by Rich Lesnik.
>> photos
>> pending. 190.
>> Silver Hub & Spokes, black rim. Used on my touring bike until I moved to
>> a
>> dynamo setup, 1k miles is a fair estimate. Never had to touch a thing on
>> this wheel. Would keep if I had room. 290 new.
>> *
>> *
>> --Phil Wood High Flange 120mm Fixed/Free Hub 36h laced to Mavic A719 w DT
>> comp spokes. photos pending. 160.
>>
>>> *All silver. Less than 1k miles, but I wouldn't worry too much about a
>>> phil? I put a tiny ding in the rim once--it was successfully
>>> straightened
>>> out, but you can feel a slight skip when braking due to the slight
>>> imperfection on the brake surface. Never bothered me, but I've priced
>>> accordingly because of it. The hub alone cost me 200.*
>>>
>>
>> --CrankBrothers Eggbeater SL (#2 of 2).
>> photo.
>> 40.
>> These are a bit less since they have slight play in the springs, this
>> existed when I bought them new, and was never an issue. Paid 100.
>> *
>> *
>> Thanks for reading!
>>
>> Erik
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[Michael_S]

I"m sure most of us have had similar aches over the years. To me it
sounds like your just overdid it doubling your distance quickly. It
may be a sign that there is something slightly wrong in your alignment/
position. It may be a good proactive step to have a bike fit expert
check it out. You may save yourself some future pain.

~Mike~

On Apr 6, 3:05 pm, Shawn  wrote:
> Doug,
> I have done a couple of 40 mile rides this year. The terrain is the
> same. I probably over did it a bit, since the pain was only in my left
> Achilles I want to make sure it isn't something in my set up.
> Shawn
>
> On Apr 6, 5:40 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Shawn:
>
> > Have you done much riding this season?  Is this a significantly longer
> > distance than normal?  New terrain?  More hills?  80 miles coming off
> > this winter (depending on where you live) could be over-doing it a
> > bit.  New bike?  Changes from the old bike?  Could be a lot of stuff.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Apr 6, 2:17 pm, Shawn  wrote:
>
> > > After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
> > > rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Beth H]

Another vote for the paper version.
If BQ ever went to pdf and/or online exclusively I would probably
cancel my subscription.It's a guilty pleasure to sit on the sofa in
stocking feet with a mug of coffee and the latest BQ, or paper
Rivendell Reader.
Paper magazines feel more relaxing to me, and more enjoyable.
Less sustainable? I ride for transportation every day and figure
that's carbon offset for preferring paper magazines.
Happy riding --Beth H, who has gotten some interesting phone calls at
work since the article came out (including two asking if I ever wanted
to sell the Rivvy -- Nope.)

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[RBW] Re: Achilles pain

[Tim McNamara]

On Apr 6, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Shawn wrote:


After an 80 mile ride on Saturday I had pain in my left Achilles. I
rode clipped in. What might be the cause of the pain?


Saddle too low, irritation from sock or shoe putting pressure on the  
tendon sheath, cleat too close to the toes, too many miles too soon,  
etc.


On a 600K on 2003, I developed Achilles tendinitis from the top of my  
sock being folded over against the Achilles for 100 miles or so.  Got  
an acute swelling like a half a grape sticking out of the tendon,  
took about 6 weeks to clear up.


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[RBW] Re: Bombadil and short stems

[happyriding]

Hi,

On Apr 6, 3:56 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
> I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.

Thanks for posting.  That is the size I would slot into.

> I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
> with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
> 8cm dirt drop.
>
> My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
> for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
> bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
> handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
> unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
> to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
> of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
> steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
> putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
> slowing down the steering response a bit.
>

Of course, a longer stem would also slow the steering down.  It's
interesting that the Bombadil doesn't handle as well when used off-
road--when it is marketed as a mountain bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 21:27 -0700, doug peterson wrote:
> Paper is good.  It's wonderful to find BQ drop thru the mail slot, a
> bit like Christmas but 4X per year.  An e-mail notice that "your new
> BQ is now available in PDF" wouldn't be the same.  Your current mix
> and balance of topics suits me.  I've learned a lot of interesting
> stuff reading BQ.

Can't read a PDF in bed or in the bathroom.



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[RBW] Re: What was I thinking?!

[Mike]

"Happiness isn't having what you want, it's wanting what you have!"

That's great! I feel that way about my Hilsen.

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[RBW] Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

I'm going to start a new thread.

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[RBW] Bombadils and short stems

[happyriding]

I wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like
the
Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but
how
does that affect the handling?


Hi,

On Apr 6, 3:56 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
> I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.

Thanks for posting.  That is the size I would slot into.

> I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
> with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
> 8cm dirt drop.
> My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
> for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
> bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
> handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
> unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
> to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
> of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
> steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
> putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
> slowing down the steering response a bit.

Of course, a longer stem would also slow the steering down.  It's
interesting that the Bombadil doesn't handle as well when used off-
road--when it is marketed as a mountain bike.


On Apr 6, 4:13 pm, "Jim M."  wrote:
> 48cm flat for off-road is very narrow. I use bars that are about 68cm
> with a little sweep back on my MTB.
>
> jim m
> wc ca


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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[Ian Dickson]

I have a 59cm bike with a 7cm stem on it.  It handles beautifully.  If
a shorter stem might make you more comfortable, try it.

On Apr 6, 2:58 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> I wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
> on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
> tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
> road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
> stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
> large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
> is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like
> the
> Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but
> how
> does that affect the handling?
>
> Hi,
>
> On Apr 6, 3:56 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
>
> > I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.
>
> Thanks for posting.  That is the size I would slot into.
>
> > I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
> > with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
> > 8cm dirt drop.
> > My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
> > for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
> > bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
> > handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
> > unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
> > to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
> > of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
> > steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
> > putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
> > slowing down the steering response a bit.
>
> Of course, a longer stem would also slow the steering down.  It's
> interesting that the Bombadil doesn't handle as well when used off-
> road--when it is marketed as a mountain bike.
>
> On Apr 6, 4:13 pm, "Jim M."  wrote:
>
> > 48cm flat for off-road is very narrow. I use bars that are about 68cm
> > with a little sweep back on my MTB.
>
> > jim m
> > wc ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[rswatson]

On Apr 6, 2010, at 16:50, Steve Palincsar  wrote:


On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 21:27 -0700, doug peterson wrote:

Paper is good.  It's wonderful to find BQ drop thru the mail slot, a
bit like Christmas but 4X per year.  An e-mail notice that "your new
BQ is now available in PDF" wouldn't be the same.  Your current mix
and balance of topics suits me.  I've learned a lot of interesting
stuff reading BQ.


Can't read a PDF in bed or in the bathroom.


Says who?
I do it all the time!


Ryan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[rswatson]

On Apr 6, 2010, at 17:25, Steve Palincsar  wrote:


On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 17:19 -0600, rswat...@me.com wrote:




On Apr 6, 2010, at 16:50, Steve Palincsar  wrote:


On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 21:27 -0700, doug peterson wrote:
Paper is good.  It's wonderful to find BQ drop thru the mail  
slot, a
bit like Christmas but 4X per year.  An e-mail notice that "your  
new

BQ is now available in PDF" wouldn't be the same.  Your current mix
and balance of topics suits me.  I've learned a lot of interesting
stuff reading BQ.


Can't read a PDF in bed or in the bathroom.


Says who?
I do it all the time!


Maybe you can, and if so I am so sorry.

Me, I don't take electronics to bed.



It's all part of my philosophy:
Never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lay down!
If you have to sit at a DESK to read the RBW and BOB, then I feel  
sorry for YOU ;-)


Ryan, who'd really just like the OPTION for a PDF BQ, not to force it  
on everyone.


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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[Dave Craig]

I wouldn't say the Bombadil doesn't handle well off-road. I would say
that I am uncomfortable with the handling as my bike is now
configured. Really, the bars I'm running now are very narrow relative
to current MTB bars (I cut them to be the same width as my noodle
bars). With my hands on the grips in the braking position, it's like
riding on the flats on the noodle bar.

Dave
On Apr 6, 3:58 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> I wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
> on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
> tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
> road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
> stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
> large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
> is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like
> the
> Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but
> how
> does that affect the handling?
>
> Hi,
>
> On Apr 6, 3:56 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
>
> > I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.
>
> Thanks for posting.  That is the size I would slot into.
>
> > I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
> > with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
> > 8cm dirt drop.
> > My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
> > for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
> > bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
> > handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
> > unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
> > to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
> > of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
> > steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
> > putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
> > slowing down the steering response a bit.
>
> Of course, a longer stem would also slow the steering down.  It's
> interesting that the Bombadil doesn't handle as well when used off-
> road--when it is marketed as a mountain bike.
>
> On Apr 6, 4:13 pm, "Jim M."  wrote:
>
>
>
> > 48cm flat for off-road is very narrow. I use bars that are about 68cm
> > with a little sweep back on my MTB.
>
> > jim m
> > wc ca- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar

[happyriding]

I think Rivendell has this diagonal 2tt wrong on the wrong bike.

It makes more sense to put the diagonal top tube on the Bombadil--if
indeed it makes the frame stiffer.   With the diagonal top tube on the
Hunqapillar what is Rivendell going to say,  "Our stout road bike is
stronger than our mountain bike." ??   The progression in frame
strength seems more logical like this: Sam Hillborne/AHH -->mini
Atlantis --> Hunqapillar --> Bombadil.

It just seems more logical to make a Diaga-Bomb rather than a Diaga-
pillar.

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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[happyriding]

On Apr 6, 5:37 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
> I wouldn't say the Bombadil doesn't handle well off-road. I would say
> that I am uncomfortable with the handling as my bike is now
> configured. Really, the bars I'm running now are very narrow relative
> to current MTB bars (I cut them to be the same width as my noodle
> bars). With my hands on the grips in the braking position, it's like
> riding on the flats on the noodle bar.
>

Yes, I understood that.  But it seems like a stretch to think that
Rivendell designed the frame with a mountain bike bar in mind.  Their
website shows the Bombadil outfitted with various road bars: a drop
bar, a mustache bar, and a bull moose bar.



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[RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[amoll68]

Jan,

I thoroughly enjoy BQ exactly the way it is. I hope it continues for
many years. I bought all the back issues, and continue to re-read them
frequently. These are not disposable periodicals. Along with the
Rivendell Reader, they are reference materials - and I treasure them.

Looking forward to your next book, too.

Please keep up the great work.

Alex Moll
Seattle, WA

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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[happyriding]

> Yes, I understood that.  But it seems like a stretch to think that
> Rivendell designed the frame with a mountain bike bar in mind.  Their
> website shows the Bombadil outfitted with various road bars: a drop
> bar, a mustache bar, and a bull moose bar.

Well, now that I look at the specs for the other bar types (v. 48 cm
drop bars), those bars are wider.   The bull moose is 66 cm wide.

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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[happyriding]

"The Bullmoose bar is still unequaled for rough terrain. You're a big
guy on a big bike riding fast over rough ground, and the wide bar lets
you manhandle the bike like a monkey manipulating a peanut."

lol

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[RBW] There's another Jay-riding video up

[William]

If it's still Dave doing the filming he's learning how to shoot and
edit REALLY quickly.  This one is legit.

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[RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[William]

Oh SNAP!  It was all Jay, solo.  That's something else.

On Apr 6, 5:13 pm, William  wrote:
> If it's still Dave doing the filming he's learning how to shoot and
> edit REALLY quickly.  This one is legit.

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Re: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[Dustin Sharp]

Jay is having way too much fun with these. They just get better and better.

Makes me want a bike with Albatross bars!


> From: William 
> Reply-To: 
> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
> To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> Subject: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up
> 
> Oh SNAP!  It was all Jay, solo.  That's something else.
> 
> On Apr 6, 5:13 pm, William  wrote:
>> If it's still Dave doing the filming he's learning how to shoot and
>> edit REALLY quickly.  This one is legit.
> 
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> 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstands

[PATRICK MOORE]

The Hebie looks even stouter than the VO but from a very quick and cursory
Google search it's not available in the US and, overseas, it's priced like
the Pletscher. Is that right? But it looks wider and more stable than the
Pletscher, which I found inadequate -- certainly not as good for eccentric
rear loads as a cheap Greenfield rear-triangle-mount stand, and certainly
*certainly* not as good as the VO. I opine that, for the price (~&US27) the
VO is value king, but we'll see how long it holds up. It is a bit lighter
than the Hebie at 1 1/2 lb of good ol' Amurkin aluminum. (Actually, that's
good ol' Amerkin *Chinese* aluminum.)

The Greenfield is great in stores. I wheel the bike through the store as my
shopping cart with the stand down despite the eternally circling fixed
drivetrain crankset; I can simply let go as I browse the aisles of plenty,
AND it supports even a way-offside left side load if you turn the wheel all
the way to the right. Cheap, black and effective: what else do you need? I'd
put one on the Sam Hill in place of the VO but the SH has that bb plate
which just demands to be used.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Dave Lloyd  wrote:

> I've used the Pletscher on a bike (now sold) and the Hebie bipod on my
> wife's bike.  The Hebie is truly panzeresque in both its build quality and
> weight, but an extra kilo won't hurt too bad on a utility bike.  I did have
> to shim a bit with a piece of aluminum bar stock so the inside of the bipod
> wouldn't rub on the 700x37 tire on her bike, but it works great to keep the
> bike stable when the Burley's attached.
>
> --dlloyd
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 16:43, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
>> Note: large, heavy, clunky and, since the legs don't retract as fully as
>> the Pletscher's, your chain may rub on them, though you can adjust the
>> degree to which the legs do retract (or their retracted angle, if you
>> prefer) which is what I did to solve the rubbing problem -- there is a set
>> screw that allows you to reduce the degree of retraction. But, still, if a
>> stand's job is to support a bike, IME, the VO works considerably better than
>> the Pletscher.
>>
>>
>>  --
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Albuquerque, NM
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(505) 227-0523

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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[newenglandbike]

I have a 56cm bombadil and I agree with Dave;  it seems to be designed
for a dirt-drop stem if you're using drop bars.  I have noodle bars on
mine and it is my most comfortable bike. Remember, because it has
a 5 degree upsloping TT, if you work out the trigonometry it's
equivalent to about a ~61cm traditional level-TT frame size.The TT
on the 56 Bombadil is about 60cm, which seems perfectly reasonable to
me when paired with a 61cm traditional size.

As for handling, I think if a bike handles reasonably well on-road,
the question isn't whether it will handle well offroad, but whether it
can handle the punishment of being ridden offroad.  That's what
the bombadil seem to be designed for.I'm sure it's been said that
given a reasonably conventional non-suspension geometry and some plump
tires, off-road 'handling' is 90% rider, 10% bike.


On Apr 6, 7:55 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> "The Bullmoose bar is still unequaled for rough terrain. You're a big
> guy on a big bike riding fast over rough ground, and the wide bar lets
> you manhandle the bike like a monkey manipulating a peanut."
>
> lol

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Re: [RBW] Bombadils and short stems

[PATRICK MOORE]

FWIW, I use a very short and high upjutter threadless Profile on my 17"
Monocog 29er with grossly overlong tt and by pure serendipity it closely
matches, albeit with much higher bars -- Salsa Bell Laps -- the drop
position on my Rivs. (Actually, it mimics the new Sam Hill very closely,
with bars 1/2 to 1" above saddle.) The handling is a bit light when I sit up
with hands on the flats, but I usually use this only on downhills anyway
where rearward weight movement is desirable. With the high bars, the hoods
are close to the flats position on my Rivs and the hooks rather like the
hoods.

Here is a photo of the Monocog in its original setup; it is presently at The
Shop being brazed on by a local builder and will afterward be named the
"Silk Purse."

http://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/DropBox#5391043633214271410

Note that the Monocog has something like a 24" effective tt so that, with
saddle in the same position vis a vis the bb shell (it, way back) the
bars have to be immensely higher and the stem immensely shorter than the 8
cm 2" below saddle short 'n' shallows on the Rivs which have 57 cm effective
tts.

Note that the 17" Monocog is the *medium* size and fits my long-torso'd
5'10" bare feet height very well. FWIW, the new 56 cm Sam Hill has a 59 cm
eff tt with the stock 10 cm stem and, with bars set like those of the
Monocog it fits fine, as you might guess. But it, too, feels light when I
ride on the flats, leading me to think that it is less the reach of the stem
than the height of the bar that affects front end handling.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:58 PM, happyriding  wrote:

> I wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems
> on big frames to get the reach right.  The Bombadil has a longish top
> tube for me.  With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a
> road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short
> stem.  From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively.   A
> large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight
> is distributed properly between the front and rear.  It seems like
> the
> Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but
> how
> does that affect the handling?
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On Apr 6, 3:56 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
> > I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.
>
> Thanks for posting.  That is the size I would slot into.
>
> > I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
> > with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
> > 8cm dirt drop.
> > My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
> > for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
> > bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
> > handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
> > unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
> > to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
> > of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
> > steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
> > putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
> > slowing down the steering response a bit.
>
> Of course, a longer stem would also slow the steering down.  It's
> interesting that the Bombadil doesn't handle as well when used off-
> road--when it is marketed as a mountain bike.
>
>
> On Apr 6, 4:13 pm, "Jim M."  wrote:
> > 48cm flat for off-road is very narrow. I use bars that are about 68cm
> > with a little sweep back on my MTB.
> >
> > jim m
> > wc ca
>
>
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[RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[newenglandbike]

what a fun video, and well done for being self-filmed.   *really*
fantastic terrain/vistas

On Apr 6, 8:20 pm, Dustin Sharp  wrote:
> Jay is having way too much fun with these. They just get better and better.
>
> Makes me want a bike with Albatross bars!
>
> > From: William 
> > Reply-To: 
> > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
> > To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > Subject: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up
>
> > Oh SNAP!  It was all Jay, solo.  That's something else.
>
> > On Apr 6, 5:13 pm, William  wrote:
> >> If it's still Dave doing the filming he's learning how to shoot and
> >> edit REALLY quickly.  This one is legit.
>
> > --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:38 PM, newenglandbike wrote:

> I have a 56cm bombadil and I agree with Dave;  it seems to be designed
> for a dirt-drop stem if you're using drop bars.
>

I will add that with a 10 cm DD stem and 46 cm Noodles, my former Diamond
Back Axis Team off road fixed gear was one of the nicest handling mountain
bikes I've owned. I am sure it was due in part to the huge, 60 mm BAs but
the short, high stem in no way hurt it.

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[RBW] another pannier question

[ejg]

Just read through the other pannier post and didn't see any mention
of  Carradice "Carradry" panniers

Anybody using these? Opinions?
I have a Carradice Nelson saddlebag that I really like, but spring is
on the way and it rains a bunch in Maine

Thanks

EJG

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Beth H  wrote:

> Another vote for the paper version.
> If BQ ever went to pdf and/or online exclusively I would probably
> cancel my subscription.It's a guilty pleasure to sit on the sofa in
> stocking feet with a mug of coffee and the latest BQ, or paper
> Rivendell Reader.
> Paper magazines feel more relaxing to me, and more enjoyable.
> Less sustainable? I ride for transportation every day and figure
> that's carbon offset for preferring paper magazines.
> Happy riding -
>
> Amen to this. You can spill coffee on and swat the dog with a paper BQ or
Reader; try that with your iPad! I always print out PDFs that I plan on
reading cover to cover more than once.

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[RBW] Trade: pristine B17 for a classic Flite or Turbo or San Marco Concours

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've tried it for a couple of hundred miles and while the b17 that came
stock on my Sam Hill is far, far FAR better than any B17 I've ridden before,
it is still too obtrusive for my personal pants yabbies and I shall replace
it with something better. Nice, honey brown, no scratches or discoloration.
I don't know how many miles Sam Hill testers put on it at and around Riv Wld
HQ, but I've not yet put quite 100 miles on it.

Flite must be classic and pretty much as new; ditto for Turbo: no flash
versions.

Will also grudgingly entertain offers to buy.

Thanks.

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Albuquerque, NM
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[RBW] Re: Trade: pristine B17 for a classic Flite or Turbo or San Marco Concours

[PATRICK MOORE]

*200* folks, I meant *200*. Sorry.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:57 PM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:

> . I don't know how many miles Sam Hill testers put on it at and around Riv
> Wld HQ, but I've not yet put quite 100 miles on it.
>
> Flite must be classic and pretty much as new; ditto for Turbo: no flash
> versions.
>
> Will also grudgingly entertain offers to buy.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> (505) 227-0523
>
>
>
>


-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
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Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
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[RBW] Re: another pannier question

[scott]

The attachment system Carradice uses is good, I find. I've never had a
bag fall off or rattle around on me. It takes a little getting used to
in regards to undoing the hooks, but whatever. As for the carradry
stuff, it will work as well as any plastic waterproof pannier.

On Apr 6, 7:44 pm, ejg  wrote:
> Just read through the other pannier post and didn't see any mention
> of  Carradice "Carradry" panniers
>
> Anybody using these? Opinions?
> I have a Carradice Nelson saddlebag that I really like, but spring is
> on the way and it rains a bunch in Maine
>
> Thanks
>
> EJG

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[RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[scott]

Is it just me, or is Jay a very handsome man. Either way, I think I
have a man-crush.

On Apr 6, 7:44 pm, newenglandbike  wrote:
> what a fun video, and well done for being self-filmed.   *really*
> fantastic terrain/vistas
>
> On Apr 6, 8:20 pm, Dustin Sharp  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jay is having way too much fun with these. They just get better and better.
>
> > Makes me want a bike with Albatross bars!
>
> > > From: William 
> > > Reply-To: 
> > > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
> > > To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > > Subject: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up
>
> > > Oh SNAP!  It was all Jay, solo.  That's something else.
>
> > > On Apr 6, 5:13 pm, William  wrote:
> > >> If it's still Dave doing the filming he's learning how to shoot and
> > >> edit REALLY quickly.  This one is legit.
>
> > > --
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[RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[ejg]

Great video

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[RBW] Re: another pannier question

[ejg]

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to decide between these and the
Ortliebs.


On Apr 6, 9:05 pm, scott  wrote:
> The attachment system Carradice uses is good, I find. I've never had a
> bag fall off or rattle around on me. It takes a little getting used to
> in regards to undoing the hooks, but whatever. As for the carradry
> stuff, it will work as well as any plastic waterproof pannier.
>
> On Apr 6, 7:44 pm, ejg  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Just read through the other pannier post and didn't see any mention
> > of  Carradice "Carradry" panniers
>
> > Anybody using these? Opinions?
> > I have a Carradice Nelson saddlebag that I really like, but spring is
> > on the way and it rains a bunch in Maine
>
> > Thanks
>
> > EJG

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Re: [RBW] Re: another pannier question

[andrew hill]

Unless I've missed it, most folks have talked about the roll-up Ortliebs.  

I've got some newer style ones (bike packer plus), with a flap closure, 
fold-seal outer pocket, inner pocket for a few items, etc..  they are 
exceptional, and I've not yet found a rack they didn't adjust to quite well.  A 
little spendy, and a little bit awkward to carry when off the bike (if you need 
to), but for largish, sturdy, weatherproofish, panniers with lots of reflection 
and compression to take up the slack, I think they cannot be beat.

That being said, i'm thinking of getting a set of the brown LaplanderBags "City 
Waxed Canvas" ones cuz they are so darn attractive, and will complete the look 
of my orange Sam.


On Apr 6, 2010, at 6:13 PM, ejg wrote:

> Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to decide between these and the
> Ortliebs.
> 
> 
> On Apr 6, 9:05 pm, scott  wrote:
>> The attachment system Carradice uses is good, I find. I've never had a
>> bag fall off or rattle around on me. It takes a little getting used to
>> in regards to undoing the hooks, but whatever. As for the carradry
>> stuff, it will work as well as any plastic waterproof pannier.
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 7:44 pm, ejg  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Just read through the other pannier post and didn't see any mention
>>> of  Carradice "Carradry" panniers
>> 
>>> Anybody using these? Opinions?
>>> I have a Carradice Nelson saddlebag that I really like, but spring is
>>> on the way and it rains a bunch in Maine
>> 
>>> Thanks
>> 
>>> EJG
> 
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[RBW] WAS: Diagonapillar NOW: Even Sillier

[Jon Grant]

happyriding wrote desperately:

I'm going to start a new thread.



Good luck and Godspeed on your most noble but futile of quests.

My favorite part: When folks started treating Photoshop jokes like a done
deal. Ah, didn¹t we laugh -- didn¹t we?

--
Jon ³Klass Klown² Grant, adding as much useful information as always, in
dark
Austin, Texas

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[RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[Mike]

Here's a link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR4KaDeAuI

Jay, good job. I think that video highlights what's important about
bikes, getting out and riding.

--mike

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[RBW] Re: WAS: Diagonapillar NOW: Even Sillier

[Mike]

Tilting at Hunqapillars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_at_windmills

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Re: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[Jon Grant]

Wow.

--
Jon ³Papa² Grant
Illustration + Information Graphics
Austin, Texas
jgr...@papagrant.com
512-284-9599



From: Mike 
Reply-To: 
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

Here's a link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR4KaDeAuI

Jay, good job. I think that video highlights what's important about
bikes, getting out and riding.

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[Richard]

If Gary Fisher's bikes are an indicator of something (?), many years
ago Gary Fisher designed his mountain bikes with what I believe was
called "Genesis" geometery.  Those bikes had longer top tubes and
shorter stems, and the reviews were generally pretty good.

On Apr 6, 7:44 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:38 PM, newenglandbike wrote:
>
> > I have a 56cm bombadil and I agree with Dave;  it seems to be designed
> > for a dirt-drop stem if you're using drop bars.
>
> I will add that with a 10 cm DD stem and 46 cm Noodles, my former Diamond
> Back Axis Team off road fixed gear was one of the nicest handling mountain
> bikes I've owned. I am sure it was due in part to the huge, 60 mm BAs but
> the short, high stem in no way hurt it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[andrew hill]

yeah, i've got a Fisher Cobia 29er and it's one of the most comfortable and 
controllable mountain bikes i've ever ridden, on or off road.  i swapped the 
short factory stem for an adjustable that's about the same length but adjusted 
a few degrees higher...  was commuting on it for a while and found that was 
alleviated hand pressure better when spending an hour dodging LA traffic.  

echoing comments made about short stems and light ends though, when riding on 
dirt it's a bit light but still tractive.  though on streets, when starting up 
from traffic lights i have to watch my gearing or i pop a wheelie :)

-andrew 


On Apr 6, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Richard wrote:

> If Gary Fisher's bikes are an indicator of something (?), many years
> ago Gary Fisher designed his mountain bikes with what I believe was
> called "Genesis" geometery.  Those bikes had longer top tubes and
> shorter stems, and the reviews were generally pretty good.
> 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spring 2010 VBQ on the way

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:51 PM, amoll68  wrote:
> Jan,
>
> I thoroughly enjoy BQ exactly the way it is. I hope it continues for
> many years. I bought all the back issues, and continue to re-read them
> frequently. These are not disposable periodicals. Along with the
> Rivendell Reader, they are reference materials - and I treasure them.
>
> Looking forward to your next book, too.
>
> Please keep up the great work.


Hmm -  buying all the backissues... That's an interesting idea.

-sv

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[RBW] Only apparently off topic: from "The Bicycle Runner" by G. Franco Romagnoli

[PATRICK MOORE]

(Chapter 5, "Don Giro".)

"At first light of the day, Don Girolamo approaches the end of the square,
takes a deep breath, lifts his cassock, and pisses, paying careful attention
not to hit the curlicues of the railing ... Then he pats his belly a few
times and, in an unhurried and sonorous sequence, first burps and then
breaks wind. ... Reassured that what he sees of his world this day isn't
much different forem the day before, Don Girolamo goes back to his church
and tolls the Matins. Summer or winter, rain or shine, Don Girolamo did not
miss this ritual once. it was his unabashed way of showing gratitude to his
Maker for giving him a functioning, serviceable body. It was like an
engineer's checking of the gauges, a check that he repeated, in reverse
order, every single night before he turned in. That, more or less, was all
the attention he paid to the well being of his body. The rest of  his time
he dedicated to care of the souls of his flock, a care that he gave in very
personal, creative ways. HJe had done this for so long that nobody in
frontale could remember a time without Don Girolamo.  ... His tall, lean
frame was still erect under the weight of his cassock, of his cartridge
belt, and of his ancient, ever-present shotgun. His biretta rested, cocked,
on an unkempt mane of white haie; his eyes were still dark and piercing, and
together with a strong aquiline nose and sucked-in cheeks, gave him an
irrefutable air of messianic power. ... My contacts with Don Girolamo began
very early in my life and religious career. He baptized me ... [My parents]
had chosen for me, because of its aristocratic, romantic lilt ... the name
Gianfranco. ... No such name appeared on the long list of Holy Saints. not
yet, anyway, and the idea that I could ever become one was obviously
precluded. A compromise was reached by splitting the name into its two
component saints. This double name was joined by hyphenation with Saverio.
Don Girolamo's anti-Fascism was expressed by his admiration for Francesco
Saverio Nitti, the last Italian liberal premier before Mussolini. ...

>From then on, even if our paths met every year for only a few short, summer
weeks ... Don Girolamo had a great influence on my way of looking at life,
and not necessarily from a religious point of view. I always tried to
emulate his directness of thought and speech, so devoid of hypocrisy ... and
his behavior, so totally ungoverned by the judgement of others ... he
embodied the saying ... "to call bread, bread; and wine, wine."

For the latter he had a particular predeliction, which he shared with his
old friend, my noono Nicola. The church of San Paolo e Maria came with a
little orchard and a small vineyard ... the little vineyard produced two
first-quality wines in quantity disproportionate to its size. ... The white
was crisp and clear, a golden-green Verdicchio; and the red the robust,
round and nutritious Rosso Piceno. ... Even in their advanced years, Don
Giro and my grandfather Niccola had long and frequent wine strategy sessions
before, during and after harvest. ... The sessions were held at Nonno's
place at Le Madonnine, in the kitchen just above the cellar with its six
huge casks. After Vespers, Don Grio would trek down the five kilometers from
Frontale, coming by the open fields, hoping to encounter some game to shoot
at. ... The strategy sessions consisted of tasting a glass of the old wine,
commparing it with a glass of the new, rechecking with another to determine
if the aging was proceeding as desired, and then again with a glass for
judging  the color by the light of the candle, and yet another glass to
bounce its taste against the bikes of Domenico's fresh-baked bread and
Nonno's salami and Don Giro's cheese ... It was the tradition that, upon
taking leave of Don Giro, Nonno would ask him to bless us kids. He always
complied by waving an approximate cross gesture in front of our faces ...
and then by giving each of us, with a touch of Latin rumbling deep in his
throat, a gentle tap on the head, a fatherly, loving tap. A blessing.

On the night of the water test [the children tested the priest's greasy
cassock for waterproofness by pouring a canteen of water into a pocket], the
benediction from those long, hard, bony fingers hurt like hell. and the next
day was Confession.

-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523

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Re: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:17 PM, William  wrote:
> Oh SNAP!  It was all Jay, solo.  That's something else.
>

1. I liked the tapping out of the beat. It's a little bit of showing
off but that's just fun.
2. the long shot where he raced by? Definitely good stuff.

-sv

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[RBW] Re: Kickstands

[RoadieRyan]

I like the look of a center mount more but practically my greenfield
is "just ok" when I have the Panniers on am loading less than 10 lbs,
more than that and it needs some major assistance.  I guess for the $8
it cost I should really only expect it to keep an unloaded bike
balanced.

I just picked up an old Raleigh 3 speed Sport that has an after market
rear triangle stand and I can tell already that it is more stable than
the center mounted greenfield.

On Apr 6, 5:30 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> The Hebie looks even stouter than the VO but from a very quick and cursory
> Google search it's not available in the US and, overseas, it's priced like
> the Pletscher. Is that right? But it looks wider and more stable than the
> Pletscher, which I found inadequate -- certainly not as good for eccentric
> rear loads as a cheap Greenfield rear-triangle-mount stand, and certainly
> *certainly* not as good as the VO. I opine that, for the price (~&US27) the
> VO is value king, but we'll see how long it holds up. It is a bit lighter
> than the Hebie at 1 1/2 lb of good ol' Amurkin aluminum. (Actually, that's
> good ol' Amerkin *Chinese* aluminum.)
>
> The Greenfield is great in stores. I wheel the bike through the store as my
> shopping cart with the stand down despite the eternally circling fixed
> drivetrain crankset; I can simply let go as I browse the aisles of plenty,
> AND it supports even a way-offside left side load if you turn the wheel all
> the way to the right. Cheap, black and effective: what else do you need? I'd
> put one on the Sam Hill in place of the VO but the SH has that bb plate
> which just demands to be used.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Dave Lloyd  wrote:
> > I've used the Pletscher on a bike (now sold) and the Hebie bipod on my
> > wife's bike.  The Hebie is truly panzeresque in both its build quality and
> > weight, but an extra kilo won't hurt too bad on a utility bike.  I did have
> > to shim a bit with a piece of aluminum bar stock so the inside of the bipod
> > wouldn't rub on the 700x37 tire on her bike, but it works great to keep the
> > bike stable when the Burley's attached.
>
> > --dlloyd
>
> > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 16:43, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
> >> Note: large, heavy, clunky and, since the legs don't retract as fully as
> >> the Pletscher's, your chain may rub on them, though you can adjust the
> >> degree to which the legs do retract (or their retracted angle, if you
> >> prefer) which is what I did to solve the rubbing problem -- there is a set
> >> screw that allows you to reduce the degree of retraction. But, still, if a
> >> stand's job is to support a bike, IME, the VO works considerably better 
> >> than
> >> the Pletscher.
>
> >>  --
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>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> (505) 227-0523

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[RBW] Re: Bombadils and short stems

[JoelMatthews]

I don't think handling is the issue.

The Bomba and the Hunq were designed with the thought that some
significant percentage of the riders would use flat bars at least some
of the time.  Most flat bars do not extend forward much beyond the
stem.  If your bike and stem fit right with flat bars, drops will
usually extend beyond your comfort range mounted on the same stem.  So
you need to get a shorter stem for the drops.

Thus with my Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road:  On tour I use Nitto Randos
with a BG Chicken Neck 11 degree 11 mm stem.   For city riding
currently I have Nitto Jitensha bars with an old Cannondale 20 degree
13 mm stem*.  To the extent handling is different between the two
configurations, the fact that I am sitting more upright and am riding
on city streets versus open roads most likely is far more a factor
than the length and rise of stem.

*A BG Chicken Neck will be coming my way after the San Diego bike
show.

On Apr 6, 9:03 pm, andrew hill  wrote:
> yeah, i've got a Fisher Cobia 29er and it's one of the most comfortable and 
> controllable mountain bikes i've ever ridden, on or off road.  i swapped the 
> short factory stem for an adjustable that's about the same length but 
> adjusted a few degrees higher...  was commuting on it for a while and found 
> that was alleviated hand pressure better when spending an hour dodging LA 
> traffic.  
>
> echoing comments made about short stems and light ends though, when riding on 
> dirt it's a bit light but still tractive.  though on streets, when starting 
> up from traffic lights i have to watch my gearing or i pop a wheelie :)
>
> -andrew
>
> On Apr 6, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Richard wrote:
>
>
>
> > If Gary Fisher's bikes are an indicator of something (?), many years
> > ago Gary Fisher designed his mountain bikes with what I believe was
> > called "Genesis" geometery.  Those bikes had longer top tubes and
> > shorter stems, and the reviews were generally pretty good.

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[RBW] Re: Bombadil and short stems

[JoelMatthews]

> Of course, a longer stem would also slow the steering down.  It's
> interesting that the Bombadil doesn't handle as well when used off-
> road--when it is marketed as a mountain bike.

Dave did not say the Bomba does not handle as well off road.  Dave
said as he had it set up, the Bomba was too skittish for technical off
road riding.  Dave will address that with proper handle bars.  Dave
expects the Bomba to perform well once he does.

On Apr 6, 5:44 pm, happyriding  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Apr 6, 3:56 pm, Dave Craig  wrote:
>
> > I have a 60cm Bombadil and it does indeed have a long top tube for me.
>
> Thanks for posting.  That is the size I would slot into.
>
> > I seem to recall from the beginning that Grant designed the Bombadil
> > with the dirt drop stem in mind. There are few stems shorter than the
> > 8cm dirt drop.
>
> > My Bombadil has an 8cm dirt drop stem and I've used it fully loaded
> > for long distance touring. With 48cm drop bars and front panniers, the
> > bike handled predictably and easily. I was amazed at the low speed
> > handling *and* stability on fast descents. I have noticed that
> > unloaded as an MTB, using relatively narrow flat bars (48cm flat end
> > to end), I'm not very comfortable with technical, off road trails. All
> > of these trails are ones that I can manage easily on other bikes. The
> > steering feels too responsive and I get a little sketched out. I'll be
> > putting wider bars on soon - extra bar width should compensate by
> > slowing down the steering response a bit.
>
> Of course, a longer stem would also slow the steering down.  It's
> interesting that the Bombadil doesn't handle as well when used off-
> road--when it is marketed as a mountain bike.

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[RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[RoadieRyan]

Wonder what kind of bag that is- a Sackville medium or something else

I have some serious fire trail envy what an awesome looking ride!

On Apr 6, 7:34 pm, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:17 PM, William  wrote:
> > Oh SNAP!  It was all Jay, solo.  That's something else.
>
> 1. I liked the tapping out of the beat. It's a little bit of showing
> off but that's just fun.
> 2. the long shot where he raced by? Definitely good stuff.
>
> -sv

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[RBW] Re: Kickstands

[JoelMatthews]

I have the Pletscher double on my Rock n' Road.  It works fine with
small to medium size loads.  It is very handy for road side
adjustments.

Fully loaded I have a klick stick stand.  Some guy makes them out of
his garage.  They are real light aluminum designed similar to tent
poles with a open end that fits  where the seat tube and top tube come
together.  The stick comes with bands that hold the breaks against the
wheel.  It has worked great for me with up to a 65 pound load.

On Apr 6, 9:43 pm, RoadieRyan  wrote:
> I like the look of a center mount more but practically my greenfield
> is "just ok" when I have the Panniers on am loading less than 10 lbs,
> more than that and it needs some major assistance.  I guess for the $8
> it cost I should really only expect it to keep an unloaded bike
> balanced.
>
> I just picked up an old Raleigh 3 speed Sport that has an after market
> rear triangle stand and I can tell already that it is more stable than
> the center mounted greenfield.
>
> On Apr 6, 5:30 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
>
>
> > The Hebie looks even stouter than the VO but from a very quick and cursory
> > Google search it's not available in the US and, overseas, it's priced like
> > the Pletscher. Is that right? But it looks wider and more stable than the
> > Pletscher, which I found inadequate -- certainly not as good for eccentric
> > rear loads as a cheap Greenfield rear-triangle-mount stand, and certainly
> > *certainly* not as good as the VO. I opine that, for the price (~&US27) the
> > VO is value king, but we'll see how long it holds up. It is a bit lighter
> > than the Hebie at 1 1/2 lb of good ol' Amurkin aluminum. (Actually, that's
> > good ol' Amerkin *Chinese* aluminum.)
>
> > The Greenfield is great in stores. I wheel the bike through the store as my
> > shopping cart with the stand down despite the eternally circling fixed
> > drivetrain crankset; I can simply let go as I browse the aisles of plenty,
> > AND it supports even a way-offside left side load if you turn the wheel all
> > the way to the right. Cheap, black and effective: what else do you need? I'd
> > put one on the Sam Hill in place of the VO but the SH has that bb plate
> > which just demands to be used.
>
> > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Dave Lloyd  wrote:
> > > I've used the Pletscher on a bike (now sold) and the Hebie bipod on my
> > > wife's bike.  The Hebie is truly panzeresque in both its build quality and
> > > weight, but an extra kilo won't hurt too bad on a utility bike.  I did 
> > > have
> > > to shim a bit with a piece of aluminum bar stock so the inside of the 
> > > bipod
> > > wouldn't rub on the 700x37 tire on her bike, but it works great to keep 
> > > the
> > > bike stable when the Burley's attached.
>
> > > --dlloyd
>
> > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 16:43, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
> > >> Note: large, heavy, clunky and, since the legs don't retract as fully as
> > >> the Pletscher's, your chain may rub on them, though you can adjust the
> > >> degree to which the legs do retract (or their retracted angle, if you
> > >> prefer) which is what I did to solve the rubbing problem -- there is a 
> > >> set
> > >> screw that allows you to reduce the degree of retraction. But, still, if 
> > >> a
> > >> stand's job is to support a bike, IME, the VO works considerably better 
> > >> than
> > >> the Pletscher.
>
> > >>  --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >  e...@googlegroups.com>
> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
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>
> > --
> > Patrick Moore
> > Albuquerque, NM
> > For professional resumes, contact
> > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> > (505) 227-0523

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstands

[Dave Lloyd]

I've heard that wallbike.com carries them, though you have to call as
they're on the website.  Also, they're available here:
http://yubaride.com/yubashop/14-b.html .

I do prefer the Hebie over the Pletcher for functionality, hands down.

The best kickstand I have is the KickBack on my Big Dummy, but that's an
entirely different beast.

--dlloyd


On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 19:30, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:

> The Hebie looks even stouter than the VO but from a very quick and cursory
> Google search it's not available in the US and, overseas, it's priced like
> the Pletscher. Is that right? But it looks wider and more stable than the
> Pletscher, which I found inadequate -- certainly not as good for eccentric
> rear loads as a cheap Greenfield rear-triangle-mount stand, and certainly
> *certainly* not as good as the VO. I opine that, for the price (~&US27) the
> VO is value king, but we'll see how long it holds up. It is a bit lighter
> than the Hebie at 1 1/2 lb of good ol' Amurkin aluminum. (Actually, that's
> good ol' Amerkin *Chinese* aluminum.)
>
> The Greenfield is great in stores. I wheel the bike through the store as my
> shopping cart with the stand down despite the eternally circling fixed
> drivetrain crankset; I can simply let go as I browse the aisles of plenty,
> AND it supports even a way-offside left side load if you turn the wheel all
> the way to the right. Cheap, black and effective: what else do you need? I'd
> put one on the Sam Hill in place of the VO but the SH has that bb plate
> which just demands to be used.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: There's another Jay-riding video up

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:52 PM, RoadieRyan  wrote:
> Wonder what kind of bag that is- a Sackville medium or something else
>
> I have some serious fire trail envy what an awesome looking ride!
>


I'm more curious about the music right now.

It's great.
-sv

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