[RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[Lungimsam]

No drafting allowed in RAAM.

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[RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[Lungimsam]

I know it must be fun to gain the speed of a paceline. But one cannot say they 
finished the ride under ones own steam.

Racers understandably use plines. But I dont get randonneurs using pacelines 
though. Comeradery. But seems it flies in the face of the self sufficiency 
ethic.

Ill admit that i am too chicken to pline and i think it is suicide to not look 
ahead while riding. Eyes locked onto the guys rear wheel? No human has reflexes 
enough to brake in time. Scary.

Plus, wouldnt you want to be able to say you did the ride under your own steam? 
Maybe thats not important to some. Maybe its not important.

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Lungimsam]

New to the supple tube zeitgeist and was wondering:
1. Really?!?! First supple tires and now supple tubes? ;)
2. Is their any research on safety of butyl vs. latex? Specifically with flats 
resulting in catastrophic tears? Like does a simple puncture in latex develop 
into a blowout tear faster than butyl?
3. How do you patch a latex tube?
4. Does the tire casing material "fight" with the latex and does one eventually 
degrade the other over time (like metals)?

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[RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[Mark Guglielmana]

#1 rule in a training paceline is whoever is at the front is in charge of 
the safety of everyone else following. That's what I was taught decades 
ago. Many, if not most of us have either pointed out potholes and glass, 
put your open palm facing backwards on your butt to indicate a stop ahead, 
etc. That's the lead rider's job, and the signal is paced down the line. 
Swerve to miss some crap on the road at the last minute and you'll have a 
bunch of people behind you swearing like sailors. No grabbing the brakes, 
no standing on the pedals, smooth pedalling only. 

If you're coming up on a slower rider, and you're passing on the left, you 
stick your right hand out and point forward to indicate rider ahead. 

As many have pointed out, everyone else is just focused on that rear wheel 
less than a foot ahead. The person that screwed up was whoever was doing a 
pull at the front. It takes focus and practice to do it right. A good 
peloton takes short pulls, so you've got to be ready when you're "on deck" 
and start focusing on what's ahead of the rider in front of you. 

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[RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[ted]

On a slight tangent, I think its too bad that the value of doing bump and 
touch drills gets so little (if any) attention outside of racing oriented 
cycling. Things we'd rather didn't do happen, and when they do it can help 
to have developed skills for dealing with them ahead of time.

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 8:22:52 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:
>
> I concur. Furthermore, you have to understand that the riders behind you 
> can't really see what's in front (the drain), until they passed you. By 
> then, the line is established and following riders won't know this from 
> that. By riding your own (safe) line, you would have assured that the 
> peloton went around you to your left; by choosing a line to the drain, you 
> unknowingly and unfortunately contributed to the situation. It's all about 
> knowing the predictable behaviors of group riders and how to behave in that 
> context. Don't worry about them crashing into you. No competent peloton 
> does that.
>
> I further believe that the hostility shown here towards riders in a group 
> to be undeserved. Sure, there are idiot riders (just as there are idiot 
> drivers), but the peloton as described was merely doing its predictable 
> thing.  Although it may appear otherwise, no one in the peloton was looking 
> to crash that day and intimidating some other cyclists was probably 
> non-existent on their To-Do list. It's also my experience that riders not 
> accustomed to group rides tend to be surprised by what experienced group 
> riders will consider ample space, and 2 feet of space can feel like 6 
> inches.
>
> If you really want to establish space in context of a peloton, ride 
> unpredictably (e.g., not in a straight line). Lead riders will see that 
> before passing you and should give you plenty of space then. :)
>
> (Am I really typing this in a Unracer group?)
>
>
> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 5:10:10 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> I'm sorry about your experience.  I wish we lived in a world where basic 
>> civility could reliably produce a like response.  In general I am willing 
>> to deal with the negatives without giving up my choice to be civil but
>>
>> From my long past racing brain.  It's not a lane, it's a line.  In racing 
>> a rider takes a line and those behind him are expected to respect that 
>> line.  They can pass on the left or the right but trying to force a rider 
>> off his line is foul play.  Having gone past a rider, it is acceptable to 
>> cut in front, even if it forces someone else to slow down.  It is analogous 
>> to taking a lane in traffic.  From the racers point of view, you took a 
>> line to the right and you became responsible for whatever might be in that 
>> line -sewer grates, potholes, debris, whatever.  So... the expected 
>> strategy is that the rider in front will take and hold the line he 
>> considers most advantages to himself.  Unfortunately you chose kindness & 
>> civility, which have no space in a racers brain.  When riding on the local 
>> roads in Vt.,  I typically take a line just to the left of the fog line. 
>>  This forces cars and racers to move to the left to pass me and if they 
>> don't give me enough space, I have room to my right to find safety.
>>
>> blessings,
>> michael
>>
>> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:26:15 AM UTC-4, Jay LePree wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi group,
>>> I am writing to ask how you would have handled this and to get a bad 
>>> action off my chest.  Today, I was coming home with some baked goods after 
>>> my ride in Nyack, NY on my Rambouillet, set up with a big saddle 
>>> bag..Clearly not a race type looking bicycle.  I was on a road with a 
>>> narrow shoulder and riding near the white line.  I saw a pack of cyclists 
>>> bearing down on me, maybe at least 20 strong.  My first mistake was to ride 
>>> inside the white line instead of taking the lane, but then again, I was not 
>>> sure how they would react and did not want to cause a pile up.  They passed 
>>> me without any warning and were perhaps 6 inches away from me.  There was a 
>>> sewer drain in front of me.  Rather than move toward the center of the road 
>>> to allow me to avoid it, they ran me right into it.  I was able to slow 
>>> enough to get over it.  (One of those sunken-in type drains with oval 
>>> holes, not bicycle friendly.)  As all this was proceeding, the combination 
>>> of surprise, fear of dumping the bike, and just consternation that a group 
>>> of cyclists would treat a fellow cyclist like this, I said, quite 
>>> clearly...A**h*les.  (How hard would it have been to move to the center of 
>>> the road? How hard would it have been to alert me to their presence.)  It 
>>> was dumb move on my part.  Not taking the lane and then allowing my 
>>> emotions to get the best of me.  (Nothing happened after 
>>> thatfortunately, they were too much into their ride and keeping pace 
>>> that no one stopped or challenged me back.)  I confession is in order for 
>>> today I guess.

[RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

I concur. Furthermore, you have to understand that the riders behind you 
can't really see what's in front (the drain), until they passed you. By 
then, the line is established and following riders won't know this from 
that. By riding your own (safe) line, you would have assured that the 
peloton went around you to your left; by choosing a line to the drain, you 
unknowingly and unfortunately contributed to the situation. It's all about 
knowing the predictable behaviors of group riders and how to behave in that 
context. Don't worry about them crashing into you. No competent peloton 
does that.

I further believe that the hostility shown here towards riders in a group 
to be undeserved. Sure, there are idiot riders (just as there are idiot 
drivers), but the peloton as described was merely doing its predictable 
thing.  Although it may appear otherwise, no one in the peloton was looking 
to crash that day and intimidating some other cyclists was probably 
non-existent on their To-Do list. It's also my experience that riders not 
accustomed to group rides tend to be surprised by what experienced group 
riders will consider ample space, and 2 feet of space can feel like 6 
inches.

If you really want to establish space in context of a peloton, ride 
unpredictably (e.g., not in a straight line). Lead riders will see that 
before passing you and should give you plenty of space then. :)

(Am I really typing this in a Unracer group?)


On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 5:10:10 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I'm sorry about your experience.  I wish we lived in a world where basic 
> civility could reliably produce a like response.  In general I am willing 
> to deal with the negatives without giving up my choice to be civil but
>
> From my long past racing brain.  It's not a lane, it's a line.  In racing 
> a rider takes a line and those behind him are expected to respect that 
> line.  They can pass on the left or the right but trying to force a rider 
> off his line is foul play.  Having gone past a rider, it is acceptable to 
> cut in front, even if it forces someone else to slow down.  It is analogous 
> to taking a lane in traffic.  From the racers point of view, you took a 
> line to the right and you became responsible for whatever might be in that 
> line -sewer grates, potholes, debris, whatever.  So... the expected 
> strategy is that the rider in front will take and hold the line he 
> considers most advantages to himself.  Unfortunately you chose kindness & 
> civility, which have no space in a racers brain.  When riding on the local 
> roads in Vt.,  I typically take a line just to the left of the fog line. 
>  This forces cars and racers to move to the left to pass me and if they 
> don't give me enough space, I have room to my right to find safety.
>
> blessings,
> michael
>
> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:26:15 AM UTC-4, Jay LePree wrote:
>>
>> Hi group,
>> I am writing to ask how you would have handled this and to get a bad 
>> action off my chest.  Today, I was coming home with some baked goods after 
>> my ride in Nyack, NY on my Rambouillet, set up with a big saddle 
>> bag..Clearly not a race type looking bicycle.  I was on a road with a 
>> narrow shoulder and riding near the white line.  I saw a pack of cyclists 
>> bearing down on me, maybe at least 20 strong.  My first mistake was to ride 
>> inside the white line instead of taking the lane, but then again, I was not 
>> sure how they would react and did not want to cause a pile up.  They passed 
>> me without any warning and were perhaps 6 inches away from me.  There was a 
>> sewer drain in front of me.  Rather than move toward the center of the road 
>> to allow me to avoid it, they ran me right into it.  I was able to slow 
>> enough to get over it.  (One of those sunken-in type drains with oval 
>> holes, not bicycle friendly.)  As all this was proceeding, the combination 
>> of surprise, fear of dumping the bike, and just consternation that a group 
>> of cyclists would treat a fellow cyclist like this, I said, quite 
>> clearly...A**h*les.  (How hard would it have been to move to the center of 
>> the road? How hard would it have been to alert me to their presence.)  It 
>> was dumb move on my part.  Not taking the lane and then allowing my 
>> emotions to get the best of me.  (Nothing happened after 
>> thatfortunately, they were too much into their ride and keeping pace 
>> that no one stopped or challenged me back.)  I confession is in order for 
>> today I guess.
>>
>> It is an unfair question as this group was not there, but would you have 
>> taken the lane?  Would you have trusted them to react accordingly?  If I 
>> had more warning, I would have stopped and dismounted an went onto the 
>> sidewalk until they passed;  however they really were moving.  I saw them 
>> in the distance in my rearview mirror, and the then they were on top of me. 
>>
>> Jay,
>> Demarest, NJ
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spikes, Pedals, Shins

[iamkeith]

Funny - I wear keens almost exclusively, for 7 months a year.  I was SO 
excited when they came out with those bike sandals.  But they're about 1/2 
the width of their regular sandals, and I literally cannot even get them on 
my feet.   My SPD bike "shoe" of choice is currently the Nashbar sandal, 
which is really wide,  but tough and inexpensive too!  But, like the OP, my 
SPD equipped bikes just don't get ridden as much as a bike that I can hop 
regardless of what I happen to be wearing.  

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 3:25:31 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Maybe your problem is you need better shoes to use with your cleats.
>
>
>
> On 05/23/2016 05:21 PM, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Man, you describe me and my struggles to an absolute T:  Clipless are 
> still best for long rides; but I don't use a bike nearly as often if so 
> fitted; I enjoy platform pedals most of the time;  but am scarred, scabbed 
> and bloody all summer long.  I got all the way to shin bone last year.  I'm 
> actively looking for some platform pedals with a more friendly - yet - 
> still grippy spike.  Will let you know if I find something, but will be 
> watching this thread no matter what. 
>
> At this moment, I'm adding some screws to some Grip Kings, but planning to 
> set them very low and use loctite to hold them in place. 
>
> I'm also thinking about getting some shin guards for vigorous mountain 
> rides, but that sort of defeats the whole beauty of platform pedals and not 
> having to go through a pre-ride ritual.
>
> I got some 5-Tennies a couple of years ago, which help a little. Because 
> they stick better, my foot slides off less frequently, meaning less 
> in-motion knocks.  But once again, that means having to use a specific 
> piece of gear.
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:29:02 PM UTC-6, Ryan Ray wrote: 
>>
>> Hey there, 
>>
>> I have clipless pedals and shoes and most of the things in the shoes ruse 
>> article don't really ring true for me. Clipless pedals are great and the 
>> longer the ride, the better they are for me. However whenever I put 
>> clipless pedals on a bike that is the bike I never ride, so I use VP-001 
>> and VP vice pedals and have for years.
>> Unfortunately my shins are absolutely scarred by near constant scrapes. 
>> Walking my bike. Walking by my bike. Moving near my bike. My wife even drew 
>> blood trying to get her bike near mine.
>>
>> I've started by removing (attempting to, some were stuck) the super sharp 
>> headless threaded spikes from the Vice pedals but does anyone else have any 
>> other suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

[Joe Bernard]

Yep yep, that's the way I would go if I was starting from scratch with a new 
kit. This one pulled from an old KHS is very rear-heavy, which works well 
enough on the very stable CLEM with long chainstays, but it's not ideal. The 
first thing I'll change when this battery wears out is to put a new pack in a 
frame bag. 

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Ron Mc]

they transform even the smaller sizes of Compass EL tires (or any fine 
casing/ supple tires) - they run quieter and that, by definition, means the 
run faster, because noise is kinetic energy being lost by the tire.  
They also reward lower pressures - they actually become too bouncy at too 
high pressures.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spikes, Pedals, Shins

[Eric Karnes]

If you're looking for another low-profile option, I've had good luck with 
the VP-535 / VP Grind (I've seen them called both). They are cheap and 
comfortable. Not quite as grippy as the VP-001, but they work just fine in 
the dry with sneakers. And no cut shins.

Eric

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 7:37:24 PM UTC-4, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> I'll second the MKS sneaker pedals. Good grip for something without all 
> the shin eatin pins. I was actually really surprised at how well they 
> gripped. I think of it like this.  Thin gripsters too much, Grip Kings not 
> enough, especially if you add any amount of h2o, sneaker pedals just 
> right...just my 02. 

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. I'll be very interested in hearing any further perceptions.

I really must look further for 650C tubes in latex.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 1:42 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Got it. I won't risk it. The link to those rated 42mm is worth
> checking out. Those should fit well.
>
> Patrick, the subtleness of your descriptions sometimes escapes me, but I'd
> venture to say that the latex tubes on the Compass tires makes them feel a
> lot smoother. Whether they actually roll faster, I can't tell with one
> ride. I did feel faster because the ride was so smooth.
>
> I was using the super thin Schwalbe tubes, but the latex tubes were very
> perceptibly smoother with the same tires.
>
> René
>

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Re: [RBW] Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[kielsun]

Still hoping for some more offers on panniers and front racks! 

Bill, et al--You can *just barely* make out the eyelets on the front fork 
in the second picture here: https://goo.gl/photos/NFB2MPCKR3ZdKK796

Also, if I understand the older thread about the Tubus Tara correctly, the 
upper eyelets don't actually allow it to be mounted level, so it'd be 
necessary to buy the mid-fork eyelets that Tubus sells for this very 
purpose if I go that route.

Bob

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spikes, Pedals, Shins

[Richard Rios]

I'll second the MKS sneaker pedals. Good grip for something without all the 
shin eatin pins. I was actually really surprised at how well they gripped. I 
think of it like this.  Thin gripsters too much, Grip Kings not enough, 
especially if you add any amount of h2o, sneaker pedals just right...just my 
02. 

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

[David Person]

Thanks Joe.  The Alfine/Nexus IGH works quite will with the e-assist, being 
able to downshift while stationary if I forget to do so before stopping for 
a light.  It adds noticeable weight to the rear wheel and the steps are as 
nice as the 2 x 9 on my Sam, but they balance out the weight of the front 
hub motor well, especially with the battery on the downtube.



On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 8:13:42 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I like your Public D8. They make pretty bikes. 

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[RBW] Re: hard cases for shipping

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Thanks for the reply, Doug. (And that's also a good idea regarding the 
dimension stenciling.)

Like Matt, I'm also a bit uneasy about putting my bike in a cardboard box. 
Maybe I'm just paranoid, as of course lots of brand new bikes are shipped 
that way (although they probably do a better job packing than me).

I guess it's a toss-up between peace of mind vs. less disassembly. 

Bob E 
(who's still waiting on that Star Trek transporter to be developed.)

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[RBW] Re: Experience with mini "half clips" ?

[Ron Mc]

With 40 years' practice, I'm pretty good at getting in the 2nd toe clip on 
the first half-rev.  But what my daughter hated was dragging it around for 
several revs before getting the second foot engaged.  

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:51:43 PM UTC-5, Jack B wrote:
>
> ...
>
> Around town I found it annoying that the clips drag on the ground if you 
> forget to engage one side, e.g. after a stop light, or if you are just 
> walking the bike. I think I will go back to free pedaling for JRA, and 
> might put the clips back on for long rides. Or even better, just swap 
> pedals for touring, since that's an easier installation than screwing on 
> the clips.
>
> -JB
>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Ron Mc]

Rene, I believe I was mistaken and the 42mm is is just the valve stem 
length.  (though 42mm tire width is 1.65")

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:42:09 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> Got it. I won't risk it. The link to those rated 42mm is worth 
> checking out. Those should fit well. 
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spikes, Pedals, Shins

[Ron Mc]

VP-001 has become my least-favorite platform pedal - the center of the 
pedal at the outermost point is like an intentional knife edge, and it's so 
far away from the pedal spikes, it's pointless for it to stick out that 
far.  
The other pedals I ride, Raceface Atlas, Straitline Amp and Blackspire 
don't have near the problems with shin strikes.  But I do consciously spin 
the my-side pedal to the front position when I'm walking the bike.  
The worst shin strike I got was on my Atlas pedals, because it was because 
some kids hiding behind pillars were playing chicken and jumping out in 
front of bikes.  I turned the bike sideways to stop it, and the pedal on 
the shin stopped me.  

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[RBW] Re: Spikes, Pedals, Shins

[iamkeith]

Man, you describe me and my struggles to an absolute T:  Clipless are still 
best for long rides; but I don't use a bike nearly as often if so fitted; I 
enjoy platform pedals most of the time;  but am scarred, scabbed and bloody 
all summer long.  I got all the way to shin bone last year.  I'm actively 
looking for some platform pedals with a more friendly - yet - still grippy 
spike.  Will let you know if I find something, but will be watching this 
thread no matter what.

At this moment, I'm adding some screws to some Grip Kings, but planning to 
set them very low and use loctite to hold them in place. 

I'm also thinking about getting some shin guards for vigorous mountain 
rides, but that sort of defeats the whole beauty of platform pedals and not 
having to go through a pre-ride ritual.

I got some 5-Tennies a couple of years ago, which help a little. Because 
they stick better, my foot slides off less frequently, meaning less 
in-motion knocks.  But once again, that means having to use a specific 
piece of gear.

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:29:02 PM UTC-6, Ryan Ray wrote:
>
> Hey there,
>
> I have clipless pedals and shoes and most of the things in the shoes ruse 
> article don't really ring true for me. Clipless pedals are great and the 
> longer the ride, the better they are for me. However whenever I put 
> clipless pedals on a bike that is the bike I never ride, so I use VP-001 
> and VP vice pedals and have for years.
> Unfortunately my shins are absolutely scarred by near constant scrapes. 
> Walking my bike. Walking by my bike. Moving near my bike. My wife even drew 
> blood trying to get her bike near mine.
>
> I've started by removing (attempting to, some were stuck) the super sharp 
> headless threaded spikes from the Vice pedals but does anyone else have any 
> other suggestions?
>
> - Ryan
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/23/2016 04:56 PM, Lungimsam wrote:

Sprung saddle sounds like it would be standard for stoker.



except for the effect...

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Lungimsam]

Sprung saddle sounds like it would be standard for stoker.

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[RBW] Re: Spikes, Pedals, Shins

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Ryan,
Maybe try RMX sneaker pedals? I have them on my AHH, and they are terrific 
for Just Ride-- no sharp edges, look great, spin freely, and even have 
reflectors. (I do prefer VP thin gripsters for grip and trail riding.)

Oh yeah, price on RMX is v nice, too.

good luck, shoji


On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 4:29:02 PM UTC-4, Ryan Ray wrote:
>
> Hey there,
>
> I have clipless pedals and shoes and most of the things in the shoes ruse 
> article don't really ring true for me. Clipless pedals are great and the 
> longer the ride, the better they are for me. However whenever I put 
> clipless pedals on a bike that is the bike I never ride, so I use VP-001 
> and VP vice pedals and have for years.
> Unfortunately my shins are absolutely scarred by near constant scrapes. 
> Walking my bike. Walking by my bike. Moving near my bike. My wife even drew 
> blood trying to get her bike near mine.
>
> I've started by removing (attempting to, some were stuck) the super sharp 
> headless threaded spikes from the Vice pedals but does anyone else have any 
> other suggestions?
>
> - Ryan
>

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[RBW] Spikes, Pedals, Shins

[Ryan Ray]

Hey there,

I have clipless pedals and shoes and most of the things in the shoes ruse 
article don't really ring true for me. Clipless pedals are great and the 
longer the ride, the better they are for me. However whenever I put 
clipless pedals on a bike that is the bike I never ride, so I use VP-001 
and VP vice pedals and have for years.
Unfortunately my shins are absolutely scarred by near constant scrapes. 
Walking my bike. Walking by my bike. Moving near my bike. My wife even drew 
blood trying to get her bike near mine.

I've started by removing (attempting to, some were stuck) the super sharp 
headless threaded spikes from the Vice pedals but does anyone else have any 
other suggestions?

- Ryan

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Re: [RBW] Re: good blug post on rim and disk brakes

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 1:15:21 PM UTC-7, Mike in WA wrote:
>
> The only maintenance I've had to do on Avid BB7's in a year of running 
> them is adjusting the calipers every so often with then turn of a screw and 
> changing the pads. I do not miss having to try to conjure devil magic (or 
> relying on LBS) to adjust V-brakes to reduce squealing or (worse) cantis to 
> work properly at all. 
>

That's good to know. But Avid BB7s are mechanical brakes, not hydraulic. I 
believe my friend had Shimano hydraulic on his bike. I will agree that 
trying to reduce squealing and chattering on cantis is crazy. I hate 
cantis! However, I had no problems getting Tektro mini v-brakes to work 
properly!  I bought the cheapie Tektro 926al to replace my crappy Suntour 
xc pro canti brake and it was like night and day. No more adjustments, 
squealing or shuddering!  For $20 or less if you buy on line, it is a real 
bargain! 

Good Luck! 

>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 1:04:30 PM UTC-7, Brewster Fong wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 12:27:38 PM UTC-7, Peter White wrote:
>>>
>>> Replacing a warped disc is a lot cheaper than rebuilding a wheel. A 
>>> customer brought in his tandem wheel a few weeks ago. It had a slightly 
>>> dented rim. If the tandem had rim brakes he would have needed the rim 
>>> replaced. But since it is disc, all it needed was a bit of truing. The dent 
>>> isn't bad enough to affect the ride or the seating of the tire.
>>>
>>
>> Agree. The flip side is disc brakes can be difficult to maintenance, 
>> especially if it has hydraulic disc brakes. One of my friends with a C'dale 
>> cross had a really hard time bleeding his brakes. He brought in a mobile 
>> mechanic who couldn't do it. But, the mechanic was able to contact the 
>> mfr and they found a problem with the caliper, which was replaced under 
>> warranty! So far, so good!
>>
>>  With rim brakes, changing pads is a piece of cake and he would have 
>> never had any problems. Of course, YMMV!  Good Luck!
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Brewster Fong  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I think Rich may be on to something. But is this really a problem or is 
 it theoretical?  There are probably 100s of thousands, if not million of 
 bikes out there with disc brakes!  Yes, it's new for road bikes, but there 
 have been disc brake mtbs and cross bikes for at least what 5, if not 10 
 years.  But a broken spoke is fairly minor and usually can be easily fixed 
 at most LBSs.  Further, a broken spoke could be from something else or it 
 may be from this poor dish, but everyone thinks its from something else.

 So, it doesn't seem like that big a problem. Maybe a survey of shops is 
 needed to see how many disc-brake equipped bikes come in with broken 
 spokes 
 that require only a few dollars and minutes to fix.

 So far, my two or three friends with disc brakes love it and haven't 
 broken any spokes yet! 

 Good Luck! 

 On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 1:55:43 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:

> Well, I've personally built several disk wheels & a couple of those 
> were fronts and will be building 2 or 3 more shortly. (On top of that I 
> have probably built a couple dozen non disk wheels) No disrespect to Rich 
> but the front disk hubs I have used required no dish at all! Typically, 
> (from what little I've seen) the manufacturers relocate the non braking 
> side flange further inboard so that no dishing of the wheel is needed and 
> while I prefer not having any dish in the wheel I am not sure whether I 
> wouldn't prefer it to the loss of triangulation that results from moving 
> the flanges in to compensate for the disk.
> I used the term sprung weight mearly as a counterpoint to the rolling 
> weight and because a better term did not come to mind. It was not the 
> significant point of the topic anywayz. The main point that you obviously 
> missed was that less rotating mass is preferable to less weight in the 
> frame. AND not to be argumentative or go into too much pointless 
> explanation, but a bicycle frame on spoked wheels would be considered 
> sprung weight! 
> Your friends Trek probably just got a bum wheel, my XO-1s front wheel 
> broke several spokes when I first got it, tore it down rebuilt it, no 
> further problems. 
> The average rider probably doesn't break too many spokes regardless of 
> configuration, which was part of the point of what I was making. If you 
> break a lot of spokes you need a new wheel builder.
>
> My experience with trying to straighten pieces of metal like brake 
> rotors is that typically you do more harm then good. The tolerances on 
> disks are so small that a wobble of less then a millimeter effects 
> whether 
> it will rub or not and by extension how good it will work. I have seen 
> people 

Re: [RBW] Re: good blug post on rim and disk brakes

[Mike in WA]

The only maintenance I've had to do on Avid BB7's in a year of running them 
is adjusting the calipers every so often with then turn of a screw and 
changing the pads. I do not miss having to try to conjure devil magic (or 
relying on LBS) to adjust V-brakes to reduce squealing or (worse) cantis to 
work properly at all. 

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 1:04:30 PM UTC-7, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 12:27:38 PM UTC-7, Peter White wrote:
>>
>> Replacing a warped disc is a lot cheaper than rebuilding a wheel. A 
>> customer brought in his tandem wheel a few weeks ago. It had a slightly 
>> dented rim. If the tandem had rim brakes he would have needed the rim 
>> replaced. But since it is disc, all it needed was a bit of truing. The dent 
>> isn't bad enough to affect the ride or the seating of the tire.
>>
>
> Agree. The flip side is disc brakes can be difficult to maintenance, 
> especially if it has hydraulic disc brakes. One of my friends with a C'dale 
> cross had a really hard time bleeding his brakes. He brought in a mobile 
> mechanic who couldn't do it. But, the mechanic was able to contact the 
> mfr and they found a problem with the caliper, which was replaced under 
> warranty! So far, so good!
>
>  With rim brakes, changing pads is a piece of cake and he would have never 
> had any problems. Of course, YMMV!  Good Luck!
>
>>
>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Rich may be on to something. But is this really a problem or is 
>>> it theoretical?  There are probably 100s of thousands, if not million of 
>>> bikes out there with disc brakes!  Yes, it's new for road bikes, but there 
>>> have been disc brake mtbs and cross bikes for at least what 5, if not 10 
>>> years.  But a broken spoke is fairly minor and usually can be easily fixed 
>>> at most LBSs.  Further, a broken spoke could be from something else or it 
>>> may be from this poor dish, but everyone thinks its from something else.
>>>
>>> So, it doesn't seem like that big a problem. Maybe a survey of shops is 
>>> needed to see how many disc-brake equipped bikes come in with broken spokes 
>>> that require only a few dollars and minutes to fix.
>>>
>>> So far, my two or three friends with disc brakes love it and haven't 
>>> broken any spokes yet! 
>>>
>>> Good Luck! 
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 1:55:43 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>>
 Well, I've personally built several disk wheels & a couple of those 
 were fronts and will be building 2 or 3 more shortly. (On top of that I 
 have probably built a couple dozen non disk wheels) No disrespect to Rich 
 but the front disk hubs I have used required no dish at all! Typically, 
 (from what little I've seen) the manufacturers relocate the non braking 
 side flange further inboard so that no dishing of the wheel is needed and 
 while I prefer not having any dish in the wheel I am not sure whether I 
 wouldn't prefer it to the loss of triangulation that results from moving 
 the flanges in to compensate for the disk.
 I used the term sprung weight mearly as a counterpoint to the rolling 
 weight and because a better term did not come to mind. It was not the 
 significant point of the topic anywayz. The main point that you obviously 
 missed was that less rotating mass is preferable to less weight in the 
 frame. AND not to be argumentative or go into too much pointless 
 explanation, but a bicycle frame on spoked wheels would be considered 
 sprung weight! 
 Your friends Trek probably just got a bum wheel, my XO-1s front wheel 
 broke several spokes when I first got it, tore it down rebuilt it, no 
 further problems. 
 The average rider probably doesn't break too many spokes regardless of 
 configuration, which was part of the point of what I was making. If you 
 break a lot of spokes you need a new wheel builder.

 My experience with trying to straighten pieces of metal like brake 
 rotors is that typically you do more harm then good. The tolerances on 
 disks are so small that a wobble of less then a millimeter effects whether 
 it will rub or not and by extension how good it will work. I have seen 
 people "shrink" metal, using a torch/heat, but again I might cause more 
 harm then good.

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Peter White
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Bill Lindsay]

For sure an unhappy stoker is a bummer.  Tandems have evolved over the last 
50 years, to be sure, and make the stoker's existence more pleasant.


On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 12:55:48 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 05/23/2016 02:42 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> > OK Steve.  If you aren't comfortable with the math, give me the 
> > numbers and I will hit the calculator buttons for you.  What is the 
> > wheelbase of your tandem of interest?  what is the chainstay length of 
> > your tandem of interest?  What is the boom tube length?  I'll be glad 
> > to run those numbers for you. 
>
> I don't have numbers.  What I have is (now quite ancient) recollections 
> of stokers complaining.  Your math basically says it makes no 
> difference, any difference is too trivial to bother with. My 
> recollection of how the stokers reacted once the bikes got longer is 
> that it indeed made a difference.  And as you undoubtedly know, if the 
> stoker is unhappy all the math in the world to the contrary don't mean 
> diddly. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: good blug post on rim and disk brakes

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 12:27:38 PM UTC-7, Peter White wrote:
>
> Replacing a warped disc is a lot cheaper than rebuilding a wheel. A 
> customer brought in his tandem wheel a few weeks ago. It had a slightly 
> dented rim. If the tandem had rim brakes he would have needed the rim 
> replaced. But since it is disc, all it needed was a bit of truing. The dent 
> isn't bad enough to affect the ride or the seating of the tire.
>

Agree. The flip side is disc brakes can be difficult to maintenance, 
especially if it has hydraulic disc brakes. One of my friends with a C'dale 
cross had a really hard time bleeding his brakes. He brought in a mobile 
mechanic who couldn't do it. But, the mechanic was able to contact the 
mfr and they found a problem with the caliper, which was replaced under 
warranty! So far, so good!

 With rim brakes, changing pads is a piece of cake and he would have never 
had any problems. Of course, YMMV!  Good Luck!

>
> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Brewster Fong  > wrote:
>
>> I think Rich may be on to something. But is this really a problem or is 
>> it theoretical?  There are probably 100s of thousands, if not million of 
>> bikes out there with disc brakes!  Yes, it's new for road bikes, but there 
>> have been disc brake mtbs and cross bikes for at least what 5, if not 10 
>> years.  But a broken spoke is fairly minor and usually can be easily fixed 
>> at most LBSs.  Further, a broken spoke could be from something else or it 
>> may be from this poor dish, but everyone thinks its from something else.
>>
>> So, it doesn't seem like that big a problem. Maybe a survey of shops is 
>> needed to see how many disc-brake equipped bikes come in with broken spokes 
>> that require only a few dollars and minutes to fix.
>>
>> So far, my two or three friends with disc brakes love it and haven't 
>> broken any spokes yet! 
>>
>> Good Luck! 
>>
>> On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 1:55:43 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I've personally built several disk wheels & a couple of those were 
>>> fronts and will be building 2 or 3 more shortly. (On top of that I have 
>>> probably built a couple dozen non disk wheels) No disrespect to Rich but 
>>> the front disk hubs I have used required no dish at all! Typically, (from 
>>> what little I've seen) the manufacturers relocate the non braking side 
>>> flange further inboard so that no dishing of the wheel is needed and while 
>>> I prefer not having any dish in the wheel I am not sure whether I wouldn't 
>>> prefer it to the loss of triangulation that results from moving the flanges 
>>> in to compensate for the disk.
>>> I used the term sprung weight mearly as a counterpoint to the rolling 
>>> weight and because a better term did not come to mind. It was not the 
>>> significant point of the topic anywayz. The main point that you obviously 
>>> missed was that less rotating mass is preferable to less weight in the 
>>> frame. AND not to be argumentative or go into too much pointless 
>>> explanation, but a bicycle frame on spoked wheels would be considered 
>>> sprung weight! 
>>> Your friends Trek probably just got a bum wheel, my XO-1s front wheel 
>>> broke several spokes when I first got it, tore it down rebuilt it, no 
>>> further problems. 
>>> The average rider probably doesn't break too many spokes regardless of 
>>> configuration, which was part of the point of what I was making. If you 
>>> break a lot of spokes you need a new wheel builder.
>>>
>>> My experience with trying to straighten pieces of metal like brake 
>>> rotors is that typically you do more harm then good. The tolerances on 
>>> disks are so small that a wobble of less then a millimeter effects whether 
>>> it will rub or not and by extension how good it will work. I have seen 
>>> people "shrink" metal, using a torch/heat, but again I might cause more 
>>> harm then good.
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Peter White
>

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[RBW] Single TT 67cm Hilsen with braze-on centerpulls!

[Bill Lindsay]

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hilsen-67x.htm

That's pretty swank.  One of you tall folks should go check that out.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/23/2016 02:42 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
OK Steve.  If you aren't comfortable with the math, give me the 
numbers and I will hit the calculator buttons for you.  What is the 
wheelbase of your tandem of interest?  what is the chainstay length of 
your tandem of interest?  What is the boom tube length?  I'll be glad 
to run those numbers for you.


I don't have numbers.  What I have is (now quite ancient) recollections 
of stokers complaining.  Your math basically says it makes no 
difference, any difference is too trivial to bother with. My 
recollection of how the stokers reacted once the bikes got longer is 
that it indeed made a difference.  And as you undoubtedly know, if the 
stoker is unhappy all the math in the world to the contrary don't mean 
diddly.



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[RBW] Re: Experience with mini "half clips" ?

[Jack B]

Thanks for all the replies. I ended up buying some of the MKS Cage Half 
Clips, and put about 75 miles on with them over the weekend, then about 20 
more miles in the city today.

On the 75mi ride (actually split up into 2 days) I wore samba-like 
sneakers, and felt like I really had to lift my foot to get any upward 
resistance from the cages, i.e. the shoes don't really fill the cage. But 
this means that the feet are free to move around and make small changes in 
position to avoid RSI. On a couple of big hills It was definitely nice to 
have a little more leverage, and otherwise the clips go unnoticed.

On the 20mi ride today I wore my street shoes which are bigger, and the 
clips felt more effective, but I actually got numbness in the toes towards 
the end. In these shoes I wished I could move my foot forward to get closer 
to my normal pedal position. (I should've listened to the advice about the 
deep VO clips, maybe.)

Around town I found it annoying that the clips drag on the ground if you 
forget to engage one side, e.g. after a stop light, or if you are just 
walking the bike. I think I will go back to free pedaling for JRA, and 
might put the clips back on for long rides. Or even better, just swap 
pedals for touring, since that's an easier installation than screwing on 
the clips.

-JB

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 4:36:16 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> my daughter rode many miles on MKS city pedals with nylon half-clips. 
>  She's happier with Fyxation Mesa 61 platforms.  
>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[René Sterental]

Got it. I won't risk it. The link to those rated 42mm is worth
checking out. Those should fit well.

Patrick, the subtleness of your descriptions sometimes escapes me, but I'd
venture to say that the latex tubes on the Compass tires makes them feel a
lot smoother. Whether they actually roll faster, I can't tell with one
ride. I did feel faster because the ride was so smooth.

I was using the super thin Schwalbe tubes, but the latex tubes were very
perceptibly smoother with the same tires.

René

On Monday, May 23, 2016, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 05/23/2016 10:17 AM, René Sterental wrote:
>
>> I saw these, but I'm concerned they'd be too big for 650b 42mm (1.6")
>> wide tires, as they state 1.9-2.2".
>>
>> What would be the risk of trying to go with a wider tube in a narrower
>> tire, assuming you are able to mount it without pinching it against the
>> rim? Would it crease inside the tire and therefore tear?
>>
>>
> The risk is that you get a fold of tube caught under the tire bead --
> extremely likely with a tube that's too wide -- and as you inflate the tube
> it wedges the tire right off the rim and you get an explosive blowout that
> will cause you to crap your pants, make your ears ring and will totally
> destroy the tube.   If you're lucky, it'll happen before you're done
> pumping.  If you're not lucky you'll get out on the road and have your
> blowout while you're riding.   And that's closer to a guarantee than a mere
> risk.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: good blug post on rim and disk brakes

[Peter White]

Replacing a warped disc is a lot cheaper than rebuilding a wheel. A
customer brought in his tandem wheel a few weeks ago. It had a slightly
dented rim. If the tandem had rim brakes he would have needed the rim
replaced. But since it is disc, all it needed was a bit of truing. The dent
isn't bad enough to affect the ride or the seating of the tire.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:

> I think Rich may be on to something. But is this really a problem or is it
> theoretical?  There are probably 100s of thousands, if not million of bikes
> out there with disc brakes!  Yes, it's new for road bikes, but there have
> been disc brake mtbs and cross bikes for at least what 5, if not 10 years.
> But a broken spoke is fairly minor and usually can be easily fixed at most
> LBSs.  Further, a broken spoke could be from something else or it may be
> from this poor dish, but everyone thinks its from something else.
>
> So, it doesn't seem like that big a problem. Maybe a survey of shops is
> needed to see how many disc-brake equipped bikes come in with broken spokes
> that require only a few dollars and minutes to fix.
>
> So far, my two or three friends with disc brakes love it and haven't
> broken any spokes yet!
>
> Good Luck!
>
> On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 1:55:43 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
>> Well, I've personally built several disk wheels & a couple of those were
>> fronts and will be building 2 or 3 more shortly. (On top of that I have
>> probably built a couple dozen non disk wheels) No disrespect to Rich but
>> the front disk hubs I have used required no dish at all! Typically, (from
>> what little I've seen) the manufacturers relocate the non braking side
>> flange further inboard so that no dishing of the wheel is needed and while
>> I prefer not having any dish in the wheel I am not sure whether I wouldn't
>> prefer it to the loss of triangulation that results from moving the flanges
>> in to compensate for the disk.
>> I used the term sprung weight mearly as a counterpoint to the rolling
>> weight and because a better term did not come to mind. It was not the
>> significant point of the topic anywayz. The main point that you obviously
>> missed was that less rotating mass is preferable to less weight in the
>> frame. AND not to be argumentative or go into too much pointless
>> explanation, but a bicycle frame on spoked wheels would be considered
>> sprung weight!
>> Your friends Trek probably just got a bum wheel, my XO-1s front wheel
>> broke several spokes when I first got it, tore it down rebuilt it, no
>> further problems.
>> The average rider probably doesn't break too many spokes regardless of
>> configuration, which was part of the point of what I was making. If you
>> break a lot of spokes you need a new wheel builder.
>>
>> My experience with trying to straighten pieces of metal like brake rotors
>> is that typically you do more harm then good. The tolerances on disks are
>> so small that a wobble of less then a millimeter effects whether it will
>> rub or not and by extension how good it will work. I have seen people
>> "shrink" metal, using a torch/heat, but again I might cause more harm then
>> good.
>>
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[RBW] Re: Opinions on the 52cm Bosco?

[bluebirdonabicycle]

Buy the 52 and the 55I believe Riv will let you return...You will 
probably like them.

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 12:09:52 PM UTC-4, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
> Hi all-
>
>
> I’m experimenting with handlebars on my new Riv. I’ve had the Albatrosses 
> on a number of previous bikes (and now this one). And while I like them, I 
> can’t shake the feeling that they’re a bit wide for my narrowish shoulders 
> (I measure for a 38mm drop bar). 
>
>
> I’m intrigued by the possibilities of the Boscos for a peppy upright 
> build. Has anyone had any experience with the 52cm version? I’ve read a 
> bunch of the positive reviews on this forum, but it always seems to be in 
> reference to the wider 58’s.
>
>
> Thanks is advance!
>
>
> Eric
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, the varying levels of pedal assist make for a much more bicycle-like ride 
than the ones where you just jam the throttle and hold on. Mine has both, but 
Faraday makes a lovely PAS-only bike; they purposely eschew a throttle so that 
their classicly styled double-tuber remains a bicycle. 

I did my second ride on eCLEM yesterday and did about half of it with no power 
at all, then used 1-3 later in the day as the winds started howling. I still 
got a decent workout, but managed to make it back before dark. I was very 
grateful for the option right about then, 'cause that slog home after the winds 
kicked in would've been endless. 

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[RBW] Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[IanA]

Group riders tend to lose independant perspective. I think it comes from the 
sheer amount of concentration when riding at speed in a tight pack and also 
just trying to keep up. It the lead rider went wide around you, the pack would 
probably have snaked out and given you room. 

Taking the lane is a good idea until it's not. I have been rear ended at speed, 
but that was in Bolivia. 

I now live in oil country (Alberta Canada) and there is aggression towards 
cyclists (also towards runners, walkers, dogs and all other traffic). 95% of 
the time I take the lane, but I'm not too proud to get off the road entirely, 
especially in low light or icy conditions, or if I see an oversize load coming 
up behind. 

On reading your account, clearly taking the lane would have been safer than 
riding the gutter, but I'm wondering if the safest thing would have been to 
remove yourself from the road altogether until the pack passed. Depends how 
much reaction time you had - if you only had a micro-moment to make a decision, 
reflexes would take one into the gutter. 

Your angry words may have penetrated a couple of ears on the ride and I suspect 
that'll give those ears pause when it comes to disregarding another human's 
safety when out riding in future. 

Ian A/Canada.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: good blug post on rim and disk brakes

[rob markwardt]

Rim brakes are better because discs are getting popular.
Friction is better because indexing is everywhere.
Steel is best because it's outdated!

Yes, I wear a wind up watch.

Rob "elevate from the norm" Markwardt
Seattle, WA

>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Bill Lindsay]

OK Steve.  If you aren't comfortable with the math, give me the numbers and 
I will hit the calculator buttons for you.  What is the wheelbase of your 
tandem of interest?  what is the chainstay length of your tandem of 
interest?  What is the boom tube length?  I'll be glad to run those numbers 
for you.

kindest regards

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:36:28 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 05/23/2016 02:29 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> "But what would it feel like on a super short wheel base tandem where the 
> stoker is sitting virtually on top of the rear wheel? "
>
> Let's look at numbers.  I'll assert that the Salsa Powderkeg is a typical 
> enough tandem.  187cm wheelbase, 45cm chainstay, 74cm boom tube (connecting 
> the BBs).  
>
>
> I was thinking of something like this:
>
>
>
> rather than this
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

[masmojo]

To those people who have tried Ebikes only one thing I would mention &  that is 
that not all systems work the same AND in only the last couple years most 
systems have improved measurably. 
I don't have any real knowledge of this unfortunately,  beyond my recent online 
research on the subject,  there's a local shop that only sells Ebikes and I do 
intend to get over there and try some out.
That said, some systems are like a throttle pull & go! Others newer systems are 
really just assistances, with the amount of assistance set by situation.  
Riding on a flat or downhill? Dial the assist back; going up hill or gotta 
boggie? Crank it up. 
Should Ebike riders join normal club rides!? Wow, no I don't think so! I 
personally would feel weird doing that.  E assist shouldn't be used to somehow 
make you feel like Greg Lemond. 

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[RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[Ron Mc]

I vote with the omission club rather than commission.  They're nose down 
and locked into their neighbors.  Your best defense is long-distance 
anticipation of what's ahead, holding the white line or wider and forcing 
them to think and eventually pass.  The good news is, you only have to make 
the leaders think, and the herd will follow.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Bill Lindsay]

"But what would it feel like on a super short wheel base tandem where the 
stoker is sitting virtually on top of the rear wheel? "

Let's look at numbers.  I'll assert that the Salsa Powderkeg is a typical 
enough tandem.  187cm wheelbase, 45cm chainstay, 74cm boom tube (connecting 
the BBs).  

Lift the rear wheel exactly 1" simulating a bump.  The stoker's bb elevates 
by (1 inch) x (187-45)/187 =  0.77 inches.  The captain's bb elevates by (1 
inch) x (187-45-74)/187 = 0.36 inches.  The stoker's and captain's tuckus 
elevates slightly more because the tuckus is behind the BB by a couple 
inches.  Without question, the stoker feels most of the bump, because the 
stoker is sitting on top of the rear wheel, and the captain feels less than 
half of what the stoker feels.

Now, extend the chainstays a ton to 56cm.  Now raise the rear wheel 1". 
 The stoker's BB now rises (198-56)/198 = 0.72 inches.  The captain's BB 
rises (198-56-74)/198 = 0.34 inches.  The longer chainstays made the 
stoker's life a little easier, and the captain probably couldn't tell the 
difference.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/23/2016 01:53 PM, iamkeith wrote:
This makes sense, but I could see why it would matter less for a 
tandem.   For simplicity, imagine a rider on a single bike that sits 
exactly half way between the axles.  A 1" vertical bump at the rear 
wheel would be felt as 1/2" at the saddle.  But on an imaginary tandem 
with equal 1/3 spacing between riders and axles, a 1" bump would still 
be felt as 2/3" at the stoker, and only 1/3" at the rider.


But what would it feel like on a super short wheel base tandem where the 
stoker is sitting virtually on top of the rear wheel?



The real math is probably weighted even less in favor of the stoker. 
 At some point, maybe the negatives of an even longer bike outweigh 
the improvement you can achieve at that position.


Indeed - the aero advantage of a tandem (power of two, wind resistance 
of one) can be lost if the stoker sits far enough back, away from the 
captain.  I recall Jan has written about this, either on the blog or in 
BQ, but the increase in tandem length that happened from the mid 70s to 
say the mid 90s was driven by stoker demands for comfort (not only shock 
from rear wheel hits, but also to not have their hands right up under 
the captain's butt) and aerodynamics be damned.


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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Bill Lindsay]

Keith is exactly right (in my humble opinion).  Moving the rear wheel back 
relative to one's tuckus reduces the magnitude of the bump you feel.  How 
much does it reduce the bump?  By the same percentage that you increased 
the wheelbase.  So a 2.5cm increase of chainstay length increases the 
wheelbase of a single bike from 100cm to 102.5cm.  That made the magnitude 
of the bump reduce by 2.5%.  Not nothing, but not huge.  A stoker feels 
about double the bump that the captain feels, because of exactly the same 
math.  

Taking a theoretical 45cm chainstay on a theoretical 187cm wheelbase 
tandem.  If we stretched out the chainstays to Rivendell-extreme 56cm, we'd 
increase the wheelbase to 198cm, an increase of almost 6%.  The stoker will 
feel a 6% softer jolt.  That's not nothing, but it's not huge either.  

Bill

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 10:53:28 AM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
> This makes sense, but I could see why it would matter less for a tandem.   
> For simplicity, imagine a rider on a single bike that sits exactly half way 
> between the axles.  A 1" vertical bump at the rear wheel would be felt as 
> 1/2" at the saddle.  But on an imaginary tandem with equal 1/3 spacing 
> between riders and axles, a 1" bump would still be felt as 2/3" at the 
> stoker, and only 1/3" at the rider.   The real math is probably weighted 
> even less in favor of the stoker.  At some point, maybe the negatives of an 
> even longer bike outweigh the improvement you can achieve at that position.
>
> On the subject of Tandems, though:  I didn't sign up for updates and it is 
> unlikely I'd be interested in one but, just in case, does anyone know if 
> there will be a version that accommodates couples with a BIG height 
> discrepancy?  6'-2" and 5'-4" ish?  Not finding that has always been one of 
> the things that's kept me from considering one seriously.  That, and 
> wanting to stay married.
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:32:28 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, but if the stoker is directly over the rear wheel they're going to 
>> feel the hit more than if they're between the wheels - that's why the 
>> captain has such a relatively easy time with back wheel hits. 
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[Robert Keal]

Thanks, Bill. My Sam has eyelets just under my canti mounts and near the
bottom of the fork blades. Hopefully that clears it up.

On Monday, May 23, 2016, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Bob
>
> Most Rivendell bikes in 2016 come with fork tips that have rack/fender
> eyelets both above and below the fork tip.  My 2009 Hillborne only has
> eyelets below the fork tips which limits the choices of what I can run.
> The Hub Area Rack, for example, is intended to run on the upper set, which
> my Hillborne doesn't have.  Make sure as you solicit advice, to make sure
> your advisors understand what mounting options you have.
>
> My front rack options that I have used on my 2009 Hillborne are Nitto Mini
> + Platrack sometimes or Nitto Big Front other times.  Both mount well using
> the under the fork-tip eyelets.
>
> Bill
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 7:36:13 AM UTC-7, kielsun wrote:
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my canti
>> Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus Tara or
>> Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front Rack, but
>> they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling super
>> generous!
>>
>> I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look
>> not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.
>>
>> Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.
>>
>> And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I
>> have owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running
>> lowriders w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should
>> consider aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and I
>> have a Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert with
>> lowriders.
>>
>> Thanks for any help!
>>
>> Bob
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[iamkeith]

This makes sense, but I could see why it would matter less for a tandem.   
For simplicity, imagine a rider on a single bike that sits exactly half way 
between the axles.  A 1" vertical bump at the rear wheel would be felt as 
1/2" at the saddle.  But on an imaginary tandem with equal 1/3 spacing 
between riders and axles, a 1" bump would still be felt as 2/3" at the 
stoker, and only 1/3" at the rider.   The real math is probably weighted 
even less in favor of the stoker.  At some point, maybe the negatives of an 
even longer bike outweigh the improvement you can achieve at that position.

On the subject of Tandems, though:  I didn't sign up for updates and it is 
unlikely I'd be interested in one but, just in case, does anyone know if 
there will be a version that accommodates couples with a BIG height 
discrepancy?  6'-2" and 5'-4" ish?  Not finding that has always been one of 
the things that's kept me from considering one seriously.  That, and 
wanting to stay married.



On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:32:28 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes, but if the stoker is directly over the rear wheel they're going to 
> feel the hit more than if they're between the wheels - that's why the 
> captain has such a relatively easy time with back wheel hits. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Eric Norris]

Same goes for single bikes. The longer chainstays on Rivendells move the wheel 
a little farther back and help take the edge off of the bumps, compared to 
“racing” bikes with shorter stays. In fact, my Richard Sachs has 
long-than-racing-normal chainstays for the same reason. It has an inch of 
clearance between the tire and seat tube, which is a lot compared to most 
racers, and it’s super comfortable. 

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On May 23, 2016, at 10:32 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 05/23/2016 01:26 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>> Hi Shoji
>> 
>> I'm going to say "no", I don't think longer chainstays do anything for what 
>> I would call "ride quality".  That's just my opinion, and I don't have any 
>> strong empirical evidence for it.  Also, I've never been a stoker.  I think 
>> the 'ride quality' most people think about for stokers is just how hard they 
>> are going to feel the bumps in the road.  Anything that enhances what we'd 
>> call "compliance" would reduce the severity of bumps for the stoker.  Lots 
>> of stokers use a shock seatpost.  One of the best places to use a beam 
>> design is for stokers.  etc etc.
> 
> Yes, but if the stoker is directly over the rear wheel they're going to feel 
> the hit more than if they're between the wheels - that's why the captain has 
> such a relatively easy time with back wheel hits.
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[Bill Lindsay]

Bob

Most Rivendell bikes in 2016 come with fork tips that have rack/fender 
eyelets both above and below the fork tip.  My 2009 Hillborne only has 
eyelets below the fork tips which limits the choices of what I can run. 
 The Hub Area Rack, for example, is intended to run on the upper set, which 
my Hillborne doesn't have.  Make sure as you solicit advice, to make sure 
your advisors understand what mounting options you have.  

My front rack options that I have used on my 2009 Hillborne are Nitto Mini 
+ Platrack sometimes or Nitto Big Front other times.  Both mount well using 
the under the fork-tip eyelets.  

Bill 

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 7:36:13 AM UTC-7, kielsun wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my canti 
> Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus Tara or 
> Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front Rack, but 
> they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling super 
> generous! 
>
> I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look 
> not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.
>
> Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.
>
> And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I 
> have owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running 
> lowriders w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should 
> consider aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and I 
> have a Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert with 
> lowriders.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Bob 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/23/2016 01:26 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Hi Shoji

I'm going to say "no", I don't think longer chainstays do anything for 
what I would call "ride quality".  That's just my opinion, and I don't 
have any strong empirical evidence for it.  Also, I've never been a 
stoker.  I think the 'ride quality' most people think about for 
stokers is just how hard they are going to feel the bumps in the road. 
 Anything that enhances what we'd call "compliance" would reduce the 
severity of bumps for the stoker.  Lots of stokers use a shock 
seatpost.  One of the best places to use a beam design is for stokers. 
 etc etc.


Yes, but if the stoker is directly over the rear wheel they're going to 
feel the hit more than if they're between the wheels - that's why the 
captain has such a relatively easy time with back wheel hits.



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[RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Bill Lindsay]

Hi Shoji

I'm going to say "no", I don't think longer chainstays do anything for what 
I would call "ride quality".  That's just my opinion, and I don't have any 
strong empirical evidence for it.  Also, I've never been a stoker.  I think 
the 'ride quality' most people think about for stokers is just how hard 
they are going to feel the bumps in the road.  Anything that enhances what 
we'd call "compliance" would reduce the severity of bumps for the stoker. 
 Lots of stokers use a shock seatpost.  One of the best places to use a 
beam design is for stokers.  etc etc.  

The rear triangle of a bicycle frame is a triangle, and is going to be 
freaking stiff in the vertical direction no matter how long the chainstays 
are.  Wide tires and a flexy seatpost are going to have 10x to 100x more 
"travel" than any vertical compliance in the rear triangle itself, in my 
humble opinion.  

Long chainstays are awesome to provide tons of heel clearance for huge rear 
bags, and lengthens the wheelbase which may be preferable to the captain in 
terms of handling.  I don't think longer chainstays do anything significant 
to smoothing out bumps for the stoker.  

Bill

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 7:15:07 AM UTC-7, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
> Do you think the long chainstays would help the stoker's ride quality? 
> That might be a consideration to keep it longer (not a wheelbase thing).
>
> Shoji 
>
>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Carradice, Nigel Smythe, Minnehaha bags; Nitto Campee front rack w/ detachable lowriders

[Julian]

All sold. Thanks! 

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 10:04:35 AM UTC-5, Julian wrote:
>
> For sale are three bags and a  Nitto Campee rack. Details below, photos 
> here https://flic.kr/s/aHskADwFKN 
>
>
> 1) Carradice Barley saddlebag. Green. Very good condition. $85 shipped 
> w/in conus. 
>
>
> 2) Minnehaha medium saddlebag. Black. Like new. $40 shipped w/in conus. 
>
>
> 3) Nigel Smythe small loafer. Tan. Essentially new. $85 shipped w/in 
> conus. 
>
>
> 4) Nitto Campee front rack with detachable lowriders and all hardware. 
> Silver. Essentially new. $170 shipped w/in conus. 
>
>
> Payment via Paypal friends. Please reply off list. 
>
>
> Regards, 
>
>
> Julian Westerhout
>
> Bloomington, IL 
>

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[RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[Deacon Patrick]

I've seen the Olympic Center peloton a few times out riding, but always 
cross current to me (I'm going up as they go down, or vice-versa). I've 
wondered what it would be like to pass them, er, for them to pass me. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[kielsun]

Thanks, Patrick. That's what the older thread said, as well. 

David, no thread drift apology necessary. I was wondering the same thing in 
reference to my 47 Schwalbes, which I'd run if the weather allowed me to 
leave fenders at home...

What about panniers? What's the best value/quality combination?

Bob

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:48:53 AM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>
> Slight thread drift, apologies, but since Tubus lowriders were brought up 
> - what's the max tire size that generally fits the Tara? Trying to figure 
> out if the normal Tara or the Big Apple would be necessary. I'm running 
> 700c Thunder Burts (about 51mm I think on narrow-ish rims).
> Thanks,
> David
> Chicago
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 10:35:05 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Tubus offers excellent, threaded aluminum clamps for lowrider racks; 
>> these are head, shoulders, and knees above P clamps.
>>
>> Wayne at TheTouringStoredotcom has very good prices on Tubus and Ortlieb, 
>> among other marques, and all associated kit, and is very easy to work with.
>>
>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:12 AM, kielsun  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Zach. I read that older thread about the Hillborne-Tara 
>>> conundrum. Sounds like p-clamps or the adapters sold a few places are the 
>>> answer. I'll send you an e-mail right now.
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:03:10 AM UTC-4, Zach Duval wrote:

 I've got a Tubus Tara I haven't been using as well as a pair of Seattle 
 Sports waterproof pannier in blue. I would probably be willing to part 
 with 
 both. 

 The Tara does require a hack to work on the Hillsborne's not quote low 
 enough mid-fork mounts. Others here could probably advise a few solutions, 
 and I believe a thread is floating around somewhere.

 Feel free to email me at zrd...@hotmail.com, and I'll pull said 
 rack/panniers from storage.

 On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 8:36:13 AM UTC-6, kielsun wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my 
> canti Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus 
> Tara or Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front 
> Rack, 
> but they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling 
> super generous! 
>
> I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look 
> not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.
>
> Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.
>
> And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I 
> have owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running 
> lowriders w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should 
> consider aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and 
> I 
> have a Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert 
> with 
> lowriders.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Bob 
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> *
>> ***
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
>> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
>> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>>
>> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>>
>> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hopefully you could see the grate in the distance and I would start
gesturing at the obstacle on your right and constantly yell grate and start
leaning left to move away from the obstacle.  All roadies would understand
what is happening and give you space.  Lean to the left without moving to
the left to create space and then start sliding over.

Certainly very easy to get intimidated, especially if the speed
differential is great.

Toshi

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/23/2016 10:17 AM, René Sterental wrote:
I saw these, but I'm concerned they'd be too big for 650b 42mm (1.6") 
wide tires, as they state 1.9-2.2".


What would be the risk of trying to go with a wider tube in a narrower 
tire, assuming you are able to mount it without pinching it against 
the rim? Would it crease inside the tire and therefore tear?




The risk is that you get a fold of tube caught under the tire bead -- 
extremely likely with a tube that's too wide -- and as you inflate the 
tube it wedges the tire right off the rim and you get an explosive 
blowout that will cause you to crap your pants, make your ears ring and 
will totally destroy the tube.   If you're lucky, it'll happen before 
you're done pumping.  If you're not lucky you'll get out on the road and 
have your blowout while you're riding.   And that's closer to a 
guarantee than a mere risk.


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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Patrick Moore]

Ach - can't handle the detail.

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Re: [RBW] Re: good blug post on rim and disk brakes

[Brewster Fong]

I think Rich may be on to something. But is this really a problem or is it 
theoretical?  There are probably 100s of thousands, if not million of bikes 
out there with disc brakes!  Yes, it's new for road bikes, but there have 
been disc brake mtbs and cross bikes for at least what 5, if not 10 years.  
But a broken spoke is fairly minor and usually can be easily fixed at most 
LBSs.  Further, a broken spoke could be from something else or it may be 
from this poor dish, but everyone thinks its from something else.

So, it doesn't seem like that big a problem. Maybe a survey of shops is 
needed to see how many disc-brake equipped bikes come in with broken spokes 
that require only a few dollars and minutes to fix.

So far, my two or three friends with disc brakes love it and haven't broken 
any spokes yet! 

Good Luck! 

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 1:55:43 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:

> Well, I've personally built several disk wheels & a couple of those were 
> fronts and will be building 2 or 3 more shortly. (On top of that I have 
> probably built a couple dozen non disk wheels) No disrespect to Rich but 
> the front disk hubs I have used required no dish at all! Typically, (from 
> what little I've seen) the manufacturers relocate the non braking side 
> flange further inboard so that no dishing of the wheel is needed and while 
> I prefer not having any dish in the wheel I am not sure whether I wouldn't 
> prefer it to the loss of triangulation that results from moving the flanges 
> in to compensate for the disk.
> I used the term sprung weight mearly as a counterpoint to the rolling 
> weight and because a better term did not come to mind. It was not the 
> significant point of the topic anywayz. The main point that you obviously 
> missed was that less rotating mass is preferable to less weight in the 
> frame. AND not to be argumentative or go into too much pointless 
> explanation, but a bicycle frame on spoked wheels would be considered 
> sprung weight! 
> Your friends Trek probably just got a bum wheel, my XO-1s front wheel 
> broke several spokes when I first got it, tore it down rebuilt it, no 
> further problems. 
> The average rider probably doesn't break too many spokes regardless of 
> configuration, which was part of the point of what I was making. If you 
> break a lot of spokes you need a new wheel builder.
>
> My experience with trying to straighten pieces of metal like brake rotors 
> is that typically you do more harm then good. The tolerances on disks are 
> so small that a wobble of less then a millimeter effects whether it will 
> rub or not and by extension how good it will work. I have seen people 
> "shrink" metal, using a torch/heat, but again I might cause more harm then 
> good.
>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Ron Mc]

uncle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[David Banzer]

Slight thread drift, apologies, but since Tubus lowriders were brought up - 
what's the max tire size that generally fits the Tara? Trying to figure out 
if the normal Tara or the Big Apple would be necessary. I'm running 700c 
Thunder Burts (about 51mm I think on narrow-ish rims).
Thanks,
David
Chicago

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 10:35:05 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Tubus offers excellent, threaded aluminum clamps for lowrider racks; these 
> are head, shoulders, and knees above P clamps.
>
> Wayne at TheTouringStoredotcom has very good prices on Tubus and Ortlieb, 
> among other marques, and all associated kit, and is very easy to work with.
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:12 AM, kielsun  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Zach. I read that older thread about the Hillborne-Tara 
>> conundrum. Sounds like p-clamps or the adapters sold a few places are the 
>> answer. I'll send you an e-mail right now.
>>
>> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:03:10 AM UTC-4, Zach Duval wrote:
>>>
>>> I've got a Tubus Tara I haven't been using as well as a pair of Seattle 
>>> Sports waterproof pannier in blue. I would probably be willing to part with 
>>> both. 
>>>
>>> The Tara does require a hack to work on the Hillsborne's not quote low 
>>> enough mid-fork mounts. Others here could probably advise a few solutions, 
>>> and I believe a thread is floating around somewhere.
>>>
>>> Feel free to email me at zrd...@hotmail.com, and I'll pull said 
>>> rack/panniers from storage.
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 8:36:13 AM UTC-6, kielsun wrote:
>>>
 Hi Folks,

 I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my 
 canti Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus 
 Tara or Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front 
 Rack, 
 but they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling 
 super generous! 

 I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look 
 not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.

 Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.

 And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I 
 have owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running 
 lowriders w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should 
 consider aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and 
 I 
 have a Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert with 
 lowriders.

 Thanks for any help!

 Bob 

>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Patrick Moore]

I take it the toothbrush analogy describes the smoothness of the latex
tubes. What about speed, or the sensation of speed? (For me, this is felt
*not* by buzz but by feeling of torque/cadence related to effort.) My Elk
Pass tires just feel easier to pedal than the not-bad-themselves Kojaks.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

>
> quite simply, all butyl tubes feel like an electric toothbrush next to
> latex tubes.  I have used Stans in my latex tubes with a large glass shard
> in a Barlow, and the Stans lasted as long as the remaining tire tread.
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 10:28:02 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> To confirm: you noticed a difference in the Compass tires with latex
>> instead of butyl tubes?
>>
>> Certainly Compass ELs with standard tubes roll wonderfully. That would
>> indeed be an amazing ride, just short, I daresay, of running Compass tires
>> tubeless.
>>
>> I've looked for 559 X skinny and 650C ("See") latex tubes and haven't
>> found any. If anyone knows of sources, please advise.
>>
>> Are latex tubes compatible with Orange Seal or Stan's? The only way I can
>> use top quality tires in my area is with sealant.
>>
>> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 9:58 PM, René Sterental 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Installed the latex tubes on the 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires on my Homer and
>>> went for a 42 mile ride today to continue building my aerobic base. All I
>>> can say is WOW!!!
>>>
>>> The combination of the Compass tires and the latex tubes made the bike
>>> roll so incredibly smoother. Areas on the route where I would be rattled
>>> around due to irregularities on the pavement were hardly noticed.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip! I'm now a fan. Too bad I don't see them for 650b
>>> tires... Are there any made?
>>>
>>> René
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> --
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-- 
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By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[Patrick Moore]

Tubus offers excellent, threaded aluminum clamps for lowrider racks; these
are head, shoulders, and knees above P clamps.

Wayne at TheTouringStoredotcom has very good prices on Tubus and Ortlieb,
among other marques, and all associated kit, and is very easy to work with.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:12 AM, kielsun  wrote:

> Thanks, Zach. I read that older thread about the Hillborne-Tara conundrum.
> Sounds like p-clamps or the adapters sold a few places are the answer. I'll
> send you an e-mail right now.
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:03:10 AM UTC-4, Zach Duval wrote:
>>
>> I've got a Tubus Tara I haven't been using as well as a pair of Seattle
>> Sports waterproof pannier in blue. I would probably be willing to part with
>> both.
>>
>> The Tara does require a hack to work on the Hillsborne's not quote low
>> enough mid-fork mounts. Others here could probably advise a few solutions,
>> and I believe a thread is floating around somewhere.
>>
>> Feel free to email me at zrd...@hotmail.com, and I'll pull said
>> rack/panniers from storage.
>>
>> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 8:36:13 AM UTC-6, kielsun wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my canti
>>> Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus Tara or
>>> Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front Rack, but
>>> they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling super
>>> generous!
>>>
>>> I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look
>>> not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.
>>>
>>> Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.
>>>
>>> And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I
>>> have owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running
>>> lowriders w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should
>>> consider aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and I
>>> have a Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert with
>>> lowriders.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help!
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Ron Mc]

quite simply, all butyl tubes feel like an electric toothbrush next to 
latex tubes.  I have used Stans in my latex tubes with a large glass shard 
in a Barlow, and the Stans lasted as long as the remaining tire tread.  

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 10:28:02 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> To confirm: you noticed a difference in the Compass tires with latex 
> instead of butyl tubes? 
>
> Certainly Compass ELs with standard tubes roll wonderfully. That would 
> indeed be an amazing ride, just short, I daresay, of running Compass tires 
> tubeless.
>
> I've looked for 559 X skinny and 650C ("See") latex tubes and haven't 
> found any. If anyone knows of sources, please advise.
>
> Are latex tubes compatible with Orange Seal or Stan's? The only way I can 
> use top quality tires in my area is with sealant.
>
> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 9:58 PM, René Sterental  > wrote:
>
>> Installed the latex tubes on the 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires on my Homer and 
>> went for a 42 mile ride today to continue building my aerobic base. All I 
>> can say is WOW!!!
>>
>> The combination of the Compass tires and the latex tubes made the bike 
>> roll so incredibly smoother. Areas on the route where I would be rattled 
>> around due to irregularities on the pavement were hardly noticed. 
>>
>> Thanks for the tip! I'm now a fan. Too bad I don't see them for 650b 
>> tires... Are there any made?
>>
>> René 
>>
>> --
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Patrick Moore]

To confirm: you noticed a difference in the Compass tires with latex
instead of butyl tubes?

Certainly Compass ELs with standard tubes roll wonderfully. That would
indeed be an amazing ride, just short, I daresay, of running Compass tires
tubeless.

I've looked for 559 X skinny and 650C ("See") latex tubes and haven't found
any. If anyone knows of sources, please advise.

Are latex tubes compatible with Orange Seal or Stan's? The only way I can
use top quality tires in my area is with sealant.

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 9:58 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Installed the latex tubes on the 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires on my Homer and
> went for a 42 mile ride today to continue building my aerobic base. All I
> can say is WOW!!!
>
> The combination of the Compass tires and the latex tubes made the bike
> roll so incredibly smoother. Areas on the route where I would be rattled
> around due to irregularities on the pavement were hardly noticed.
>
> Thanks for the tip! I'm now a fan. Too bad I don't see them for 650b
> tires... Are there any made?
>
> René
>
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Aggressive cycling pack and I slipped up today

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I think we're getting into generalizations here. Car drivers, recreational 
cyclists, long-distance riders, truck drivers, pedestrians, competitive 
cyclists out training--there are of course bad apples in every bunch. Maybe 
I'm lucky, but most of the racers I've ridden/trained with on public roads 
are conscientious and careful around slower riders. I've seen more errant 
moves when riding with a more mixed "club" group.

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 10:31:18 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> That says to me racers have no business being out on the public roads. 
>
> On 05/22/2016 08:10 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote: 
> > I'm sorry about your experience.  I wish we lived in a world where 
> > basic civility could reliably produce a like response.  In general I 
> > am willing to deal with the negatives without giving up my choice to 
> > be civil but 
> > 
> > From my long past racing brain.  It's not a lane, it's a line.  In 
> > racing a rider takes a line and those behind him are expected to 
> > respect that line.  They can pass on the left or the right but trying 
> > to force a rider off his line is foul play.  Having gone past a rider, 
> > it is acceptable to cut in front, even if it forces someone else to 
> > slow down.  It is analogous to taking a lane in traffic.  From the 
> > racers point of view, you took a line to the right and you became 
> > responsible for whatever might be in that line -sewer grates, 
> > potholes, debris, whatever.  So... the expected strategy is that the 
> > rider in front will take and hold the line he considers most 
> > advantages to himself.  Unfortunately you chose kindness & civility, 
> > which have no space in a racers brain.  When riding on the local roads 
> > in Vt.,  I typically take a line just to the left of the fog line. 
> >  This forces cars and racers to move to the left to pass me and if 
> > they don't give me enough space, I have room to my right to find safety. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: S3X wheel: first impressions and home-hacked Cambio Corsa-type shifter

[Patrick Moore]

I agree that for most riding it is not worth the annoying lash or the
weight, and for most of my local riding I simply prefer to flip the wheel,
stand and grunt, or to walk.

But frankly, I arranged this setup for eventual longer rides -- the missed,
this past Sunday's Santa Fe Century (I would have done the 50 miler, except
that my daughter ended up with me for the weekend, along with a new, second
dog just getting acquainted with the household) or the just possible, and
at this point only suggested, Eroica somewhere in AZ. I'd have used the AM
hub, did it not require putting a second brake on the gofast -- don't
wanna! In fact, the S3X may eventually end up on the '03 instead, with a
freewheel, as the '03 has fr and rear brakes.

I'll try to do, if not a 50 miler, then at least a 30 miler Tramway rt or
loop this week. I'm still fiddling with the cable adjustment.

I hear that the *beau ideal* of fixed multiple gears was the TC hub, with
direct and underdrive, and, so I've heard, very little lash. That would be
acceptable as a more permanent system.

I thought also of a kickback hub with coaster brake, about which I heard
good things, notably, little drag, but direct gear with those is low, and
overdrive is a to-high 138%, requiring a 21 t or larger cog. All of these
could be adapted for, but I also want a very quick on-and-off arrangement
that modifies the bike as little as possible.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 6:59 AM, David Banzer  wrote:

> I briefly tried a S3X hub. I was excited about it having ridden primarily
> fixed gear for over a year at the time when they were available. I built it
> up and had the kit that came with a barend shifter. I used the shifter on a
> dt boss instead of barend.
> Took it for a spin and hated the lash. I decided since it's so flat here
> in Chicagoland, that I'd rather stick with the single gear than riding with
> the lash.
> If you have hills, it's probably worth putting up with it, but I didn't
> really have a reason for gears in the first place.
> David
> Chicago
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[kielsun]

Thanks, Zach. I read that older thread about the Hillborne-Tara conundrum. 
Sounds like p-clamps or the adapters sold a few places are the answer. I'll 
send you an e-mail right now.

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:03:10 AM UTC-4, Zach Duval wrote:
>
> I've got a Tubus Tara I haven't been using as well as a pair of Seattle 
> Sports waterproof pannier in blue. I would probably be willing to part with 
> both. 
>
> The Tara does require a hack to work on the Hillsborne's not quote low 
> enough mid-fork mounts. Others here could probably advise a few solutions, 
> and I believe a thread is floating around somewhere.
>
> Feel free to email me at zrd...@hotmail.com , and I'll pull 
> said rack/panniers from storage.
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 8:36:13 AM UTC-6, kielsun wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my canti 
>> Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus Tara or 
>> Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front Rack, but 
>> they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling super 
>> generous! 
>>
>> I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look 
>> not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.
>>
>> Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.
>>
>> And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I 
>> have owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running 
>> lowriders w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should 
>> consider aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and I 
>> have a Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert with 
>> lowriders.
>>
>> Thanks for any help!
>>
>> Bob 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Ron Mc]

Note, it's also possible they're simply re-rating them and changing the 
package to hit the 650b market.  Could be the reason for the CRC closeout 
price...

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 10:07:08 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Especially if you're planning to stock up on 700c (try ribble?) possibly 
> add a couple of these to kick up to free shipping level.  If anything, all 
> you're going to face is a little thicker tube, but the slight diameter 
> stretch is going to keep them from buckling anywhere.  If it doesn't work, 
> offer someone with 26" wheels a such a deal on a pair of almost-used latex 
> tubes.  
> Looks like they make these in a smaller size also?  Stated as standard 42mm
>
> https://www.bikeinn.com/bike/michelin-mtb-tube-latex-standard-42-mm-26x1.75-2.10/136007207/p?utm_source=google_products_medium=merchant_producte=2736944=us=CjwKEAjw1Iq6BRDY_tK-9OjdmBESJABlzoY7mZYSRJExrILBdjzXrh2CIeaSHYqK9k3GxEHvtXDDixoCrQfw_wcB=aw.ds
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 9:17:50 AM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>> I saw these, but I'm concerned they'd be too big for 650b 42mm (1.6") 
>> wide tires, as they state 1.9-2.2". 
>>
>> What would be the risk of trying to go with a wider tube in a narrower 
>> tire, assuming you are able to mount it without pinching it against the 
>> rim? Would it crease inside the tire and therefore tear?
>>
>> Maybe I'll try it just to find out...
>>
>> René 
>>
>> On Monday, May 23, 2016, Ron Mc  wrote:
>>
>>> All correct there, Rene.  It seems redundant to say these improve supple 
>>> tires, but they do indeed.  I flatted last week, put in quick butyl spare 
>>> on roadside and was delighted to get my latex back in - rode it yesterday 
>>> and giggled the whole 35 mi.  
>>> Don't know of any for 650B, but Michelin makes big dia 26" latex tubes, 
>>> available at all the typical UK vendors.  
>>> Maybe these would work?  They're several times more elastic than butyl 
>>> tubes.  
>>>
>>> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/michelin-c4-aircomp-latex-mtb-bike-tube/rp-prod20472
>>> Maybe these would work?  
>>> Latex tubes are actually the historic low-tech:  
>>>
>>> Found this posted on-line
>>> *materials: bicycle inner tube (caoutchouc / natural rubber), 1930s; 
>>> bicycle saddle (leather and metal fixture) 1940s; bicycle fork 
>>> (metal)1960/70s*
>>> [image: [​IMG]]
>>>
>>> http://www.ganahl.info/counting.html
>>> Many antique balloon-tire riders on The CABE are still riding antique 
>>> natural latex tubes from the '30s, and rejoice when they find a good one in 
>>> an old wheel.  
>>> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/vintage-bicycle-inner-tubes.90610/
>>>
>>> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 10:58:43 PM UTC-5, René wrote:

 Installed the latex tubes on the 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires on my Homer 
 and went for a 42 mile ride today to continue building my aerobic base. 
 All 
 I can say is WOW!!!

 The combination of the Compass tires and the latex tubes made the bike 
 roll so incredibly smoother. Areas on the route where I would be rattled 
 around due to irregularities on the pavement were hardly noticed. 

 Thanks for the tip! I'm now a fan. Too bad I don't see them for 650b 
 tires... Are there any made?

 René 

>>> -- 
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>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Ron Mc]

Especially if you're planning to stock up on 700c (try ribble?) possibly 
add a couple of these to kick up to free shipping level.  If anything, all 
you're going to face is a little thicker tube, but the slight diameter 
stretch is going to keep them from buckling anywhere.  If it doesn't work, 
offer someone with 26" wheels a such a deal on a pair of almost-used latex 
tubes.  
Looks like they make these in a smaller size also?  Stated as standard 42mm
https://www.bikeinn.com/bike/michelin-mtb-tube-latex-standard-42-mm-26x1.75-2.10/136007207/p?utm_source=google_products_medium=merchant_producte=2736944=us=CjwKEAjw1Iq6BRDY_tK-9OjdmBESJABlzoY7mZYSRJExrILBdjzXrh2CIeaSHYqK9k3GxEHvtXDDixoCrQfw_wcB=aw.ds

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 9:17:50 AM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> I saw these, but I'm concerned they'd be too big for 650b 42mm (1.6") wide 
> tires, as they state 1.9-2.2". 
>
> What would be the risk of trying to go with a wider tube in a narrower 
> tire, assuming you are able to mount it without pinching it against the 
> rim? Would it crease inside the tire and therefore tear?
>
> Maybe I'll try it just to find out...
>
> René 
>
> On Monday, May 23, 2016, Ron Mc  wrote:
>
>> All correct there, Rene.  It seems redundant to say these improve supple 
>> tires, but they do indeed.  I flatted last week, put in quick butyl spare 
>> on roadside and was delighted to get my latex back in - rode it yesterday 
>> and giggled the whole 35 mi.  
>> Don't know of any for 650B, but Michelin makes big dia 26" latex tubes, 
>> available at all the typical UK vendors.  
>> Maybe these would work?  They're several times more elastic than butyl 
>> tubes.  
>>
>> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/michelin-c4-aircomp-latex-mtb-bike-tube/rp-prod20472
>> Maybe these would work?  
>> Latex tubes are actually the historic low-tech:  
>>
>> Found this posted on-line
>> *materials: bicycle inner tube (caoutchouc / natural rubber), 1930s; 
>> bicycle saddle (leather and metal fixture) 1940s; bicycle fork 
>> (metal)1960/70s*
>> [image: [​IMG]]
>>
>> http://www.ganahl.info/counting.html
>> Many antique balloon-tire riders on The CABE are still riding antique 
>> natural latex tubes from the '30s, and rejoice when they find a good one in 
>> an old wheel.  
>> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/vintage-bicycle-inner-tubes.90610/
>>
>> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 10:58:43 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>>
>>> Installed the latex tubes on the 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires on my Homer and 
>>> went for a 42 mile ride today to continue building my aerobic base. All I 
>>> can say is WOW!!!
>>>
>>> The combination of the Compass tires and the latex tubes made the bike 
>>> roll so incredibly smoother. Areas on the route where I would be rattled 
>>> around due to irregularities on the pavement were hardly noticed. 
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip! I'm now a fan. Too bad I don't see them for 650b 
>>> tires... Are there any made?
>>>
>>> René 
>>>
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>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[Zach Duval]

I've got a Tubus Tara I haven't been using as well as a pair of Seattle 
Sports waterproof pannier in blue. I would probably be willing to part with 
both. 

The Tara does require a hack to work on the Hillsborne's not quote low 
enough mid-fork mounts. Others here could probably advise a few solutions, 
and I believe a thread is floating around somewhere.

Feel free to email me at zrdu...@hotmail.com, and I'll pull said 
rack/panniers from storage.

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 8:36:13 AM UTC-6, kielsun wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my canti 
> Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus Tara or 
> Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front Rack, but 
> they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling super 
> generous! 
>
> I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look 
> not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.
>
> Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.
>
> And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I 
> have owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running 
> lowriders w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should 
> consider aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and I 
> have a Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert with 
> lowriders.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Bob 
>

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[RBW] Seeking advice (and WTB) front lowrider rack and panniers for canti Sam

[kielsun]

Hi Folks,

I am looking for advice on (and I WTB) front lowrider racks for my canti 
Hillborne. I am mostly interested in lowrider racks like the Tubus Tara or 
Duo. Riv's HAR is nice, as are the Nitto Campee and Big Front Rack, but 
they're probably too pricey for me, even used, unless you're feeling super 
generous! 

I also WTB waterproof panniers. I'm open to anything that'll look 
not-too-horrible with my orange Sam.

Please reply off-list with any for sale offers.

And please reply on-list with any advice. I'll take it all. Although I have 
owned my Sam since '09, I have zero experience touring or running lowriders 
w/ panniers. Are there any other cheaper alternatives I should consider 
aside from those listed above? My rear rack is a Nitto R-14, and I have a 
Nitto mini-front that I could use, too, if it works in concert with 
lowriders.

Thanks for any help!

Bob 

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[René Sterental]

I saw these, but I'm concerned they'd be too big for 650b 42mm (1.6") wide
tires, as they state 1.9-2.2".

What would be the risk of trying to go with a wider tube in a narrower
tire, assuming you are able to mount it without pinching it against the
rim? Would it crease inside the tire and therefore tear?

Maybe I'll try it just to find out...

René

On Monday, May 23, 2016, Ron Mc  wrote:

> All correct there, Rene.  It seems redundant to say these improve supple
> tires, but they do indeed.  I flatted last week, put in quick butyl spare
> on roadside and was delighted to get my latex back in - rode it yesterday
> and giggled the whole 35 mi.
> Don't know of any for 650B, but Michelin makes big dia 26" latex tubes,
> available at all the typical UK vendors.
> Maybe these would work?  They're several times more elastic than butyl
> tubes.
>
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/michelin-c4-aircomp-latex-mtb-bike-tube/rp-prod20472
> Maybe these would work?
> Latex tubes are actually the historic low-tech:
>
> Found this posted on-line
> *materials: bicycle inner tube (caoutchouc / natural rubber), 1930s;
> bicycle saddle (leather and metal fixture) 1940s; bicycle fork
> (metal)1960/70s*
> [image: [​IMG]]
>
> http://www.ganahl.info/counting.html
> Many antique balloon-tire riders on The CABE are still riding antique
> natural latex tubes from the '30s, and rejoice when they find a good one in
> an old wheel.
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/vintage-bicycle-inner-tubes.90610/
>
> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 10:58:43 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>> Installed the latex tubes on the 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires on my Homer and
>> went for a 42 mile ride today to continue building my aerobic base. All I
>> can say is WOW!!!
>>
>> The combination of the Compass tires and the latex tubes made the bike
>> roll so incredibly smoother. Areas on the route where I would be rattled
>> around due to irregularities on the pavement were hardly noticed.
>>
>> Thanks for the tip! I'm now a fan. Too bad I don't see them for 650b
>> tires... Are there any made?
>>
>> René
>>
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[RBW] Re: RBWHQ spy report

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Bill,
Do you think the long chainstays would help the stoker's ride quality? That 
might be a consideration to keep it longer (not a wheelbase thing).

Shoji 

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:09:08 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I had my phone in the charger in my car.  As I was getting out of my car, 
> it occurred to me that I didn't have my phone.  I thought about it for a 
> moment, and decided to just leave it behind.  The tandem prototype is going 
> to have several things changed, Grant said.  He's decided that the tandem 
> doesn't need the ultra-long chainstays that he's liking on single person 
> bikes, because a tandem already has a crazy long wheelbase.  So the rear 
> end of the tandem looks kind of like a Clem in that it has super long 
> stays, but the production ones will look somewhat more normal.  
>
> The thing most deserving of a photo was Roman's home-made frame bag on his 
> 54cm Hunqapillar.  If you have a 54cm Hunqapillar, you should email Roman 
> and offer him some money to make you one.  It's rad.  Smallish, but rad.  
>
> On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:40:28 PM UTC-7, Reid wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 6:33:37 PM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> No phone photo?
>>
>>
>> Really, Bill. No pics?!?! You could get banned from this forum, ya' know.
>>
>> Curious Reid
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Joe,
I think the eCLEM is awesome. I'm tempted to help with shlepping the kids 
and also having my spouse out more with me/us on rides. Don't think we're 
in the market for it now, though.

Tailwinds-- just dial it up by throttle!

shoji



On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 4:19:02 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> A couple other Riv comments: 1. The Choco-Moose is a fabulous bar. It 
> feels like the grip position and angle were custom fit for me..amazing. 2. 
> That mustard Appaloosa is gorgeous. There's a 51 Ready To Ride at RBW right 
> now, and I'd dearly love to find the cash for it. It would not get an 
> electric motor :)

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[RBW] Re: S3X wheel: first impressions and home-hacked Cambio Corsa-type shifter

[David Banzer]

I briefly tried a S3X hub. I was excited about it having ridden primarily 
fixed gear for over a year at the time when they were available. I built it 
up and had the kit that came with a barend shifter. I used the shifter on a 
dt boss instead of barend.
Took it for a spin and hated the lash. I decided since it's so flat here in 
Chicagoland, that I'd rather stick with the single gear than riding with 
the lash.
If you have hills, it's probably worth putting up with it, but I didn't 
really have a reason for gears in the first place.
David
Chicago

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:10:31 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I struggled for several hours trying to find a quick-clamp-on/off method 
> for the shifter, which was on- a bracket made for tourist bars. First 
> attempt, using a cam operated clamp on bracket for water bottle cages 
> (Minoura) didn't hold the shifter tightly enough, and it twisted under 
> tension, and that of course put the cable tension out of adjustment.
>
> This hack uses a bracket designed to clamp onto the seatstay. I forget 
> what it's original purpose is, but it seems to hold the shift lever tightly 
> enough so that it doesn't twist under tension from the internal spring. 
>
> I've not had a chance to try it except up and down the street, but so far, 
> so good.
>
> Earlier I rode the wheel on the '99, leaving it in 3d after the shifting 
> failed to work; just 11 hilly-ish miles, before I had to run errands and 
> cook dinner for my daughter. 
>
> The main impression is: LASH! Lots of lash! It's not horrible, and in mere 
> angular play it feels like a very loose chain, but because the cog moves 
> the driver against the hub, the overall effect is "sharper" than with a 
> fixed cog and loose chain; as if something is loose inside -- as indeed it 
> is. 
>
> It will never replace direct fixed drive, but at least it should let me 
> shift gears without having to install a rear brake on this bike, which has 
> no braze ons for one.
>
> God willing, a longer ride tomorrow, on some hills.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Always heard this about latex tubes

[Ron Mc]

All correct there, Rene.  It seems redundant to say these improve supple 
tires, but they do indeed.  I flatted last week, put in quick butyl spare 
on roadside and was delighted to get my latex back in - rode it yesterday 
and giggled the whole 35 mi.  
Don't know of any for 650B, but Michelin makes big dia 26" latex tubes, 
available at all the typical UK vendors.  
Maybe these would work?  They're several times more elastic than butyl 
tubes.  
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/michelin-c4-aircomp-latex-mtb-bike-tube/rp-prod20472
Maybe these would work?  
Latex tubes are actually the historic low-tech:  

Found this posted on-line
*materials: bicycle inner tube (caoutchouc / natural rubber), 1930s; 
bicycle saddle (leather and metal fixture) 1940s; bicycle fork 
(metal)1960/70s*
[image: [​IMG]]

http://www.ganahl.info/counting.html
Many antique balloon-tire riders on The CABE are still riding antique 
natural latex tubes from the '30s, and rejoice when they find a good one in 
an old wheel.  
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/vintage-bicycle-inner-tubes.90610/

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 10:58:43 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> Installed the latex tubes on the 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires on my Homer and 
> went for a 42 mile ride today to continue building my aerobic base. All I 
> can say is WOW!!!
>
> The combination of the Compass tires and the latex tubes made the bike 
> roll so incredibly smoother. Areas on the route where I would be rattled 
> around due to irregularities on the pavement were hardly noticed. 
>
> Thanks for the tip! I'm now a fan. Too bad I don't see them for 650b 
> tires... Are there any made?
>
> René 
>

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