[RBW] My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Garth]

Seems to me Dave all you are saying is that you experienced the fallacy of all 
the assumptions you bought into being "true". As you can see, truth is not 
relative to anyone or anything, truth is truth, Absolute, absolutely. Any idea 
to contrary the Absolute could only confirm the Absolute.  It's like claiming 
"I am not".  So it's not the fault of the frames, or the bars, or the stems, or 
even you. there is no fault at all in truth ☺ 






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[RBW] My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[EasyRider]

I love my albatross bars but the key for me is 

1: a long stem to let me lean forward, a little less than I would riding the 
hoods of a drop bar

2: using them for stop and go downtown commuting at a slow to moderate pace, 
and grocery getting. They are called cruiser bars for a reason.

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[RBW] Re: Need Help Diagnosing Weird Handling on my Atlantis

[ascpgh]

A bike that required frame and fork alignment from a front end crash 
deserves a new headset. 

Hopefully just an unstated part of all the work performed on your bike. I 
can't imaging clamping up a bike frame for cold set adjustment at a frame 
table with the pressed headset parts installed. 

Was the head tube re-prepped ("gaging" if no material removed?) prior to 
pressing the cup, race? Hopefully just assuring that the tool moves into 
the ends of the tube without slop or bind, and the mill faces quickly 
verify the ends to be parallel prior installing a fresh headset. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 5:27:06 PM UTC-5, John G. wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> First, a disclaimer: I may be crazy, and this may all be in my head.
>
> Backstory: Back in Oct, I collided with another cyclist while riding my 
> Atlantis. The fork and headtube were knocked out of alignment. Took the 
> bike to my shop, who sent it to one framemaker to get it realigned. 
> According to my shop, the framemaker did a decent job with the headtube, 
> but didn't quite get the fork right. So I'm told the fork went off to 
> Waterford, who realigned it and sent it back to the shop. There's no 
> documentation or receipts for any of this, but I have no reason to doubt 
> why my shop told me.
>
> Since getting the bike back from the shop, I've noticed that the handling 
> feels a bit off. Symptoms are:
>
> 1. The tracking feels wobbly, as if the bike has to work reaally hard 
> to hold a straight line. It's much more noticeable when I ride one-handed. 
> 2. This one is harder to explain, but a bit scarier: on long, gently 
> curving descents, the front end has a tendency to dip suddenly when I go 
> into the curve. There's then a feeling that the bike rights tries to right 
> itself, and it wobbles a bit more.
>
> Things I'm trying to rule out:
> - front wheel is out of true. I'm 95% the wheel is true, but I haven't put 
> it into a truing stand.
> - stem/handlebars are off-center. I'm driving myself crazy on this one, 
> but I'm pretty sure everything is centered.
>
> Any ideas? Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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[RBW] New SAM / spoke / hub Q

[Jock Dewey]

Good MON morning:

We have a new black SAM arriving soon (my son's actually) to compliment a 
few other fine machines and we're accumulating bits and pieces to get make 
it road worthy.

Specifically, we have H Plus SON TB14 rims we are building around a White 
Industries mnt. hubset...32 / 36 / 3X. Can any of you suggest a good (i.e. 
easy-to-use) calculator so we can determine spoke length for this 
configuration? I'm a seasoned wheel builder but working with wheel 
calculators has never been much fun for me, haha!

Better yet, if someone can just hammer it out for me, I'll send you a $10 
RIV gift certificate. What a deal, eh?

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

BEST / Jock Dewey / in almost summer-like Athens, GA


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[RBW] Re: Need Help Diagnosing Weird Handling on my Atlantis

[John G.]

This is all really great advice. Thanks, everyone! I'm certainly 
frustrated, but I also feel like I'm learning something new about bikes. 
Your wisdom is appreciated.

Andy, the headset was not replaced. You ask great questions about the work 
they did, and unfortunately, I don't know the answer. I'll probably reach 
out directly to Waterford to learn more about what was actually done.

The plan is: 
1) Get more info from Waterford
2) Replace the headset.

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 7:30:05 AM UTC-5, ascpgh wrote:
>
> A bike that required frame and fork alignment from a front end crash 
> deserves a new headset. 
>
> Hopefully just an unstated part of all the work performed on your bike. I 
> can't imaging clamping up a bike frame for cold set adjustment at a frame 
> table with the pressed headset parts installed. 
>
> Was the head tube re-prepped ("gaging" if no material removed?) prior to 
> pressing the cup, race? Hopefully just assuring that the tool moves into 
> the ends of the tube without slop or bind, and the mill faces quickly 
> verify the ends to be parallel prior installing a fresh headset. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 5:27:06 PM UTC-5, John G. wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> First, a disclaimer: I may be crazy, and this may all be in my head.
>>
>> Backstory: Back in Oct, I collided with another cyclist while riding my 
>> Atlantis. The fork and headtube were knocked out of alignment. Took the 
>> bike to my shop, who sent it to one framemaker to get it realigned. 
>> According to my shop, the framemaker did a decent job with the headtube, 
>> but didn't quite get the fork right. So I'm told the fork went off to 
>> Waterford, who realigned it and sent it back to the shop. There's no 
>> documentation or receipts for any of this, but I have no reason to doubt 
>> why my shop told me.
>>
>> Since getting the bike back from the shop, I've noticed that the handling 
>> feels a bit off. Symptoms are:
>>
>> 1. The tracking feels wobbly, as if the bike has to work reaally hard 
>> to hold a straight line. It's much more noticeable when I ride one-handed. 
>> 2. This one is harder to explain, but a bit scarier: on long, gently 
>> curving descents, the front end has a tendency to dip suddenly when I go 
>> into the curve. There's then a feeling that the bike rights tries to right 
>> itself, and it wobbles a bit more.
>>
>> Things I'm trying to rule out:
>> - front wheel is out of true. I'm 95% the wheel is true, but I haven't 
>> put it into a truing stand.
>> - stem/handlebars are off-center. I'm driving myself crazy on this one, 
>> but I'm pretty sure everything is centered.
>>
>> Any ideas? Any recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New SAM / spoke / hub Q

[Belopsky]

https://leonard.io/edd/

https://spokes-calculator.dtswiss.com/en/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Not ugly quill to threadless: Can it be done?

[Matt C.]

I have had this idea to make a stem cap that allows you to use a quill bolt. 
Then you could use a threadless adapter+threadless stem as one quill stem and 
just use spacers to cover the ugliness. Does anyone know if such a stem cap 
exists? Or perhaps a bolt that would work with the normal stem cap?

I have been thinking of using this set up on my Burley tandem. It has a 1 1/8" 
threaded fork. 

Matt Cook
Bristol RI

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant Clem L special on the Blahg

[lconley]

30 watt - it is a cheap POS that is on it's last legs (takes forever to 
warm up), but the tip has a groove/curve in the end that holds the solder 
perfectly. I have been shopping for a new one.

Laing

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 2:11:26 PM UTC-5, George Schick wrote:

> I agree with Steve - I've always found it impossible to solder the newer 
> stainless cable ends, too.  But I don't like the hassle of using end crimps 
> and having to remove them every time I need to take a cable out (not to 
> mention, as you say, risking the fraying of the cable).  I'll have to give 
> your method a try.  What wattage soldering iron did you use?
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] ISO: 55cm Cheviot

[Philip Kim]

Getting closer to finding my S/O a bike. looking for a 55cm Cheviot, prefer 
the green. Prefer frameset, but willing to entertain other add-ons.

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[RBW] Re: Frame lock installation - Clem

[lconley]

Just need to file a little. Mine was a slightly different model of AXA, - 
Defender I believe. I also got the plug-in chain which is a wonderful thing.

Laing

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 8:08:33 PM UTC-5, Tim wrote:

> OK ... looks like I need to get a rat tail file. There doesn't seem to be 
> all that much material available to file away without getting into the case 
> itself. Did you have to take a little of the case material too? Did you 
> disassemble the lock to file it or were you able to get at it by just 
> removing the trim ring?
>
>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Need Help Diagnosing Weird Handling on my Atlantis

[KenP]

I recked a road bike a few years back and a shop streaghtened the fork blades.  
Bike still leaned. Careful inspection the fork tube that goes into head tube 
was bent.  I discarded the bike. 

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[RBW] Re: New SAM / spoke / hub Q

[RichS]

Hi Jock:

Here's another source for your files. Open the tab that says "resources". 
Congratulations on the new Sam. Hope your son enjoys it.

https://www.bikeschool.com/

Best regards,
Richard

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 8:45:28 AM UTC-5, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Good MON morning:
>
> We have a new black SAM arriving soon (my son's actually) to compliment a 
> few other fine machines and we're accumulating bits and pieces to get make 
> it road worthy.
>
> Specifically, we have H Plus SON TB14 rims we are building around a White 
> Industries mnt. hubset...32 / 36 / 3X. Can any of you suggest a good (i.e. 
> easy-to-use) calculator so we can determine spoke length for this 
> configuration? I'm a seasoned wheel builder but working with wheel 
> calculators has never been much fun for me, haha!
>
> Better yet, if someone can just hammer it out for me, I'll send you a $10 
> RIV gift certificate. What a deal, eh?
>
> Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / in almost summer-like Athens, GA
>
>
>

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[RBW] FS 60cm Cheviot

[CoalTrain]

Anybody in St Louis looking for an orange Cheviot? I’ll have a frame, fork, HS, 
BB, seatpost, and set of brakes. I’ll let it go for $800. It is a 2015 with 
typical wear for about 400 miles or so. The right inner chainstay had some 
sanding done by Riv because the stay was close to the chain. They did this on 
the frames from this run but no in way effects anything on the frame. Will post 
some pics later thanks. 

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[RBW] FS: Brooks Cambium

[lconley]

Brooks Cambium Saddles, like new, 100 miles or less. C-19 natural, C-17 
rust, C-17 black/slate?
$90 each shipped CONUS PayPal.
Laing





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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[RichS]

Dave,

First, I have to say your Cheviot is gorgeous! With all the images of great 
looking Cheviots that have been popping up here I'm trying hard to resist 
the temptation to jump in. 

Secondly, I've had the same handlebar experiences that others have related. 
I have drops on two Rivs and Albatross bars on my Atlantis (after the 
initial period of using drops). I enjoy alternating between bikes with 
different cockpits. My thrice weekly long rides are 14-18 miles with some 
shorter ones in between. 

The Albas are nice because they permit multiple hand positions and varying 
degrees of lean to more upright. The Atlantis uses a thumb shifter for the 
rear derailer and a downtube shifter for the front giving my left arm a 
chance to "shift" to another position. 

If I recall correctly Michael H. from the group has posted pictures of a 
Cheviot and/or a Betty? in his stable with drops. 

Don't give up. You'll eventually find the right solution.

Best of luck!
Richard 

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 3:16:13 PM UTC-5, Dave Small wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As I read more and more testimonials from people about how awesome their 
> switch was to upright handlebars, I wanted to try 'em.  I like drop bars as 
> long as they're saddle-height or higher, but there's a semi-conscious part 
> of me that feels the teensiest-bit compelled to push drop-bar bikes just a 
> little, and sometimes I want to just putz along and enjoy the scenery, and 
> not even consider my speed or trip time.  Plus, as I get older I thought 
> that uprights may be in my future anyway, so why not give 'em a shot now?
>
> So, I took a Velo-Orange Polyvalent and replaced the drop bars with 
> porteur bars.  It's okay, but I feel like I'm kinda caught between a 
> forward lean and sitting upright, in a no-man's land of Tweenerville.  So 
> maybe this isn't the right bike on which to test upright bars, I thought, 
> so I converted a V-O Campeur from drop bars to V-O Left Bank bars.  Nope, I 
> thought, not fond of this.  But those Albatross bars that everyone thinks 
> is the bees knees?---let's try *those* on the Campeur!  It was better, 
> and I thought it might actually be fine, but the more I rode it the less I 
> liked it, so I swapped the bars back to drop and was reminded of what a 
> great bike the Campeur is---with drops.  
>
> Maybe those are the wrong bikes for uprights, I though, so I bought a 
> Cheviot and set it up with Albatross bars, 'cause the Cheviot was 
> *designed* for Albatross bars and Albas are *the best*, right?  Right? 
>  Everyone says so, so it must be true.  As I was engaging in this 
> experiment I thought to myself that would be the Gold Standard of 
> Upright-Bar Setups, and if I don't like this then I must not like upright 
> bars---but meanwhile I was sure it'd be *good* because everyone says it 
> is.  
>
> I don't like it.  A couple of days ago I took it out for what I'd intended 
> to be a 13-mile trial ride to see how things went at that relatively short 
> distance, and ended up going 24 miles.  That's a typical ride for me on a 
> drop-bar bike, and know how I feel when I get home.  On the Cheviot I felt 
> slow and never quite comfortable in a upright position, with the most 
> natural feeling coming when I was stretched out (relatively speaking) and 
> holding onto the bends that are furtherest toward the front.  But that's 
> close to where the bends would be on a drop-bar bike, so in essence I was 
> mimicking the position I'd be in on such a bike, and wasn't comfortable in 
> the position in which the Albas were designed to put me.  Also, my hands 
> got kinda numb and didn't work well; toward the end of the ride I tried to 
> wave a car through an intersection ahead of me by waving my fingers, and 
> they wouldn't bend.  I went a longer distance than I'd initially planned to 
> on that ride because I thought maybe I needed more time or distance to 
> acclimate to the Albas, but instead of things feeling better they felt 
> worse as the ride progressed.  
>
> With that background, I have 2 questions for the group:
>
> 1.  Has anyone else experienced something similar and then fixed it, for 
> example by raising or lowering the bars or the angle of the bars or 
> changing the stem extension?  There was a recent thread that indicated not 
> everyone likes upright bars (which I read only after I'd built up the 
> Cheviot), but it didn't get to my specific question about whether someone 
> could convert from nonliker to liker of uprights by adjusting 'em.  
>
> 2.  Has anyone used drop bars on a Cheviot?  I know they're not designed 
> for drops, but given that I liked the extended position the best, I'm 
> thinking that drops might be more suitable for me than uprights.  And 
> follow-up question:  Would drops on a Cheviot make it essentially a mixte 
> Sam Hillborne but with longer chain stays?  I'm thinking yes, and I don't 
> need to duplicate the 2 Sams I already have.  
>
> Thanks in advance for any 

[RBW] Re: Grant Clem L special on the Blahg

[Belopsky]

Oh Frank Jones..wonder how far away we are from seeing them. im going to be 
optimistic and say end of February

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 12:20:03 PM UTC-5, Arthur Mayfield wrote:
>
>
>
> I love quirky bikes like this Clem. My Sam has been, at various times, a 
> one speed, 2x7/8/9, two speed Auto, and currently a 1x9, with drops, North 
> Road, and porteur bars, road, city, and reverse levers, bar end, thumbie, 
> stem, and DT shifters, and front, back, or both racks, as well as numerous 
> other minor configuration changes. I have an almost completed restoration 
> of an old Trek 810 ladies that's now a 1x8 city bike, and a Bianchi Milano 
> with the fattest tires I could fit and a coaster hub (my lightweight beach 
> bike). I have two possible hubs awaiting my new Frank Jones Jr—A Grand Cru 
> flip/flop with a 17/19 double freewheel on one side and a 22 freewheel on 
> the other, and a SunXCD with a Compass 14-28 cassette ('cause who wouldn't 
> want to build a 120mm hub 2x6 road bike out of a new SS with track 
> dropouts, lol). I haven't built either hub into wheels yet because I want 
> to verify whether the frame will take 650b rims, or if I'll have to do the 
> expected thing and buy some 700c's. Vive la difference!
>

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[RBW] Re: Need Help Diagnosing Weird Handling on my Atlantis

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yes, a bent steerer tube could cause symptoms like this. That's why I asked 
whether Waterford looked at the blades, or the steerer, or both. It's 
possible, if they were told to align the blades, they may not have looked 
closely at the steerer (though it would have to be a bad day at the 
office.) I have successfully straightened a bent steerer. They can also be 
replaced. Certainly the OP is not going to discard an Atlantis.

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:19:26 AM UTC-5, KenP wrote:
>
> I recked a road bike a few years back and a shop streaghtened the fork 
> blades.  Bike still leaned. Careful inspection the fork tube that goes into 
> head tube was bent.  I discarded the bike. 

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[RBW] Re: STOLEN Bay Area, CA: Yellow 1982 Trek 720, 64cm, beloved Rivendell substitute

[christian poppell]

I looked around the Ashby flea market yesterday and didn't see it. Checked 
around the station too. I'll keep my eye out. 

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[RBW] My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Joe Bernard]

I prefer pullbacks to drops, but I've noticed that I really don't use them for 
a more upright position than the flats/hoods stance on drops, they just look 
better than drops jacked up that high. I suspect your problem is you've moved 
the grips too close compared to that hoods position and it's making you feel 
cramped. Most people think of numb hands as a problem of being too bent over, 
but you'll get the same problem with bars too close: your hands will keep 
trying to "push" the bar away, creating extra pressure. Maybe a 13cm stem will 
help. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Not ugly quill to threadless: Can it be done?

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I've considered a similar DIY shim for my quill to threadless adapters 
using a leftover piece of 1-1/8 threadless steerer tube (25.4 I.D.) to take 
up the space and then use alloy 1-1/8 alloy shims over that.  Ideally it 
would have a 22.2 inner diameter as someone noted above to ensure a proper 
fit but never got around to trying it since I ended up changing the build 
before it came to that anyway.

I have both VO and Soma adapters.  The VO with the radiused lower lip has a 
cleaner look as long as the threadless stem has a 40mm stack height to 
exactly match the available clamp space and then sits flush with the top.  
The VO is one piece with solid top counterbored to take the quill bolt and 
requires no top cap this makes stem changes very easy when dialing fit 
since you could just leave the adapter in place and pull the threadless 
stem with ease.

The Soma is MUCH taller and has a hollowed out top and loose stem cap.  The 
Soma also has no lip on the bottom of the clamp area so the stack height of 
the threadless stem is a little less important (still should be in the 
~40mm range however) and gives you more flexibility to center the stem on 
the available clamp area of the adapter.  So any clamp overhang would 
only be exposed on the bottom of the clamp and top is covered by the cap vs 
the exposed overhang on top on the VO version.  Because you need to install 
the threadless stem onto the Soma before inserting the quill (the long bolt 
compresses the top cap and quill wedge simultaneously) it makes stem swaps 
a little more cumbersome vs the VO version and just not as convenient for 
swaps while dialing in fit with new bars.  

I agree they are not aesthetically pleasing but considering the convenience 
I've learned to appreciate them for short term experimentation and keep 'em 
around just in case.  If I happened to need to use one long term for any 
reason I'd likely try to shim it out for a smoother transition from headset 
top cap but as long as they only serve a temporary purpose I've abandoned 
any further thoughts of shimming the quill part.  But in think my prior 
idea would work even though there would be excess space between the 22.2 
quill and 25.4 ID steel tube shim because the radiused lip of the VO and 
tapered transition of the SOMA should keep the shim centered and stop 
it from slipping once everything is tightened down (I hope.)

Brian Cole
Lawrenceville, NJ



On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:29:02 AM UTC-5, Matt C. wrote:

> I have had this idea to make a stem cap that allows you to use a quill 
> bolt. Then you could use a threadless adapter+threadless stem as one quill 
> stem and just use spacers to cover the ugliness. Does anyone know if such a 
> stem cap exists? Or perhaps a bolt that would work with the normal stem cap?
>
> I have been thinking of using this set up on my Burley tandem. It has a 1 
> 1/8" threaded fork. 
>
> Matt Cook
> Bristol RI
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New SAM / spoke / hub Q

[Jeffrey Arita]

Hi Jock,

I have used Roger Musson's latest spoke calculator available here:

https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

Interesting enough I just relaced a wheel last week around a SON28 dynamo 
hub (new Velocity Dyad rim) for our tandem.  Roger's latest spoke 
calculator gave me a number.  I rounded down to an even number.  I received 
the spokes and laced it up.  Went together without a hitch.

BTW:  Did you measure the ERD of the rim(s)?  Also will need the hub flange 
diameter(s) as well as well as flange offset(s).  Good luck!

Best regards,

Jeff



On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:45:28 AM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Good MON morning:
>
> We have a new black SAM arriving soon (my son's actually) to compliment a 
> few other fine machines and we're accumulating bits and pieces to get make 
> it road worthy.
>
> Specifically, we have H Plus SON TB14 rims we are building around a White 
> Industries mnt. hubset...32 / 36 / 3X. Can any of you suggest a good (i.e. 
> easy-to-use) calculator so we can determine spoke length for this 
> configuration? I'm a seasoned wheel builder but working with wheel 
> calculators has never been much fun for me, haha!
>
> Better yet, if someone can just hammer it out for me, I'll send you a $10 
> RIV gift certificate. What a deal, eh?
>
> Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / in almost summer-like Athens, GA
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Dave Small]

Thanks much to everyone who responded.  I've read all the 
replies---twice---and here are my thoughts:

1.  A common theme is to try a long stem to get more extension.  I'll try 
that.  I don't think it'll help, but it's an easy experiment and I don't 
trust my expectations enough to *not* try it.  The stem on the bike now is 
100mm and I have a 120mm available, so I'll swap them.  BTW, this is why I 
like the threadless stem+riser setup so much; it's not as sleek, but I 
don't have to disassemble anything but the stem itself to change it out.  

2.  Raise or lower the bars.  Again, raising is easy and I'll try it.  I 
think it'll put me too much in the sit-up-and-beg position, which I don't 
think I'll like, but again (again!), I don't completely trust my 
expectations and it's easy to try.  I don't have enough room to lower them 
by more than a few millimeters, and flipping the Albas would be almost like 
trying another kind of bar, which leads me to.

3.  Try different upright bars.  I have a Bosco and an Albastache that I 
could try, but I'm not sure I'm motivated enough to do it even though I 
have the bars.  The Bosco would put me higher and further back; the former 
change I'll have mimicked by raising the Albas, and the latter change is 
the opposite of swapping to a longer stem to get more reach.  It's that 
sit-up-and-beg thing again.  I won't rule out trying the Albastache, mainly 
because I want to try them on *something* and here's my chance, but I think 
I'd be stretched way out unless I went with a shorter stembut I might 
try it to be sure.  As much as I'd like to like the Cheviot with uprights, 
swapping bars could lead down a rabbit hole of trial-and-error.  I won't 
rule it out if I learn something from #1 and #2 that leads me to believe 
that a certain bar would work, but I'm not inclined to go to exhaustive 
means to Find the Right Setup.  I'm happy with my Sams and my other bikes 
with drops, and was curious about upright-bar setups in general and the 
Cheviot specifically, but I might just be in the camp of "don't like 'em" 
and will want to cut my losses after trying a few reasonably easy 
solutions.  

4.  Try drop bars.  No one mentioned this option, but it's something I've 
considered.  As it's set up now, the reach to the center of the stem clamp 
is 1.5 cm longer than that on my Sams with Noodles, so I could replicate 
the Sam's reach on my Cheviot by replacing the 100mm stem with an 80mm 
stem.  Then what would I have, if not a Sam with longer chain stays and a 
stepover option that I don't use now anyway (old habits are hard to break)? 
 But I'm curious enough that I might try it to see.  It would let me assess 
the Cheviot as the only variable.  

That's it for now.  Again, thanks for everyone who weighed in.  If I learn 
anything relevant that might help others then I'll add another entry to 
this string.   


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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Bill Lindsay]

Don't be afraid to conclude that you just prefer drop bars. I run my Rosco 
Bubbe step through with drop bars and I like it very much. I think a 
Cheviut with drop bars could be a really slick setup.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

 

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:11:03 AM UTC-8, Dave Small wrote:
>
> Thanks much to everyone who responded.  I've read all the 
> replies---twice---and here are my thoughts:
>
> 1.  A common theme is to try a long stem to get more extension.  I'll try 
> that.  I don't think it'll help, but it's an easy experiment and I don't 
> trust my expectations enough to *not* try it.  The stem on the bike now 
> is 100mm and I have a 120mm available, so I'll swap them.  BTW, this is why 
> I like the threadless stem+riser setup so much; it's not as sleek, but I 
> don't have to disassemble anything but the stem itself to change it out.  
>
> 2.  Raise or lower the bars.  Again, raising is easy and I'll try it.  I 
> think it'll put me too much in the sit-up-and-beg position, which I don't 
> think I'll like, but again (again!), I don't completely trust my 
> expectations and it's easy to try.  I don't have enough room to lower them 
> by more than a few millimeters, and flipping the Albas would be almost like 
> trying another kind of bar, which leads me to.
>
> 3.  Try different upright bars.  I have a Bosco and an Albastache that I 
> could try, but I'm not sure I'm motivated enough to do it even though I 
> have the bars.  The Bosco would put me higher and further back; the former 
> change I'll have mimicked by raising the Albas, and the latter change is 
> the opposite of swapping to a longer stem to get more reach.  It's that 
> sit-up-and-beg thing again.  I won't rule out trying the Albastache, mainly 
> because I want to try them on *something* and here's my chance, but I 
> think I'd be stretched way out unless I went with a shorter stembut I 
> might try it to be sure.  As much as I'd like to like the Cheviot with 
> uprights, swapping bars could lead down a rabbit hole of trial-and-error. 
>  I won't rule it out if I learn something from #1 and #2 that leads me to 
> believe that a certain bar would work, but I'm not inclined to go to 
> exhaustive means to Find the Right Setup.  I'm happy with my Sams and my 
> other bikes with drops, and was curious about upright-bar setups in general 
> and the Cheviot specifically, but I might just be in the camp of "don't 
> like 'em" and will want to cut my losses after trying a few reasonably easy 
> solutions.  
>
> 4.  Try drop bars.  No one mentioned this option, but it's something I've 
> considered.  As it's set up now, the reach to the center of the stem clamp 
> is 1.5 cm longer than that on my Sams with Noodles, so I could replicate 
> the Sam's reach on my Cheviot by replacing the 100mm stem with an 80mm 
> stem.  Then what would I have, if not a Sam with longer chain stays and a 
> stepover option that I don't use now anyway (old habits are hard to break)? 
>  But I'm curious enough that I might try it to see.  It would let me assess 
> the Cheviot as the only variable.  
>
> That's it for now.  Again, thanks for everyone who weighed in.  If I learn 
> anything relevant that might help others then I'll add another entry to 
> this string.   
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Dave Small]

Thanks, Bill.  I won't be afraid to conclude that I prefer drop bars, but 
want to be sure I'm evaluating the uprights properly and thoroughly, 
because if I conclude they're not for me then I'm never gonna try them 
again.  I started down this trail because I'd considered the Cheviot to be 
my eventual old-man bike, and wanted to know if would be suitable for that. 
 Variables can be confounded so I might think Thing A is the problem when 
it's really Thing B, but which affects Thing A and is misleading me.  I 
tend to overthink things like that, and want to be sure that any conclusion 
about the unsuitability of uprights for my riding is justified, but if it 
ends up there then so be it.  

Dave

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 12:19:49 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Don't be afraid to conclude that you just prefer drop bars. I run my Rosco 
> Bubbe step through with drop bars and I like it very much. I think a 
> Cheviut with drop bars could be a really slick setup.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Surlyprof]

Dave, 

When I switched from Albatross to an Albastache bar, I had to switch from an 11 
stem to an 8 as Riv suggested. That was the right fit for me.  The switch was 
needed anyway because the clamp sizes were different.

John

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Lester Lammers]

Do try the Albastach and Bosco. The 120mm VO stem I offered has a 17 degree 
rise and you may like the flipped Albas. These are what I have on the 
Boscos 
https://www.benscycle.com/dia-compe-drop-bar-hand-rests/bar_end_dia-compe__188-179/product
 kind 
of like riding on the hoods with drop bars. You're close don't give up now.

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 12:11:03 PM UTC-5, Dave Small wrote:
>
> Thanks much to everyone who responded.  I've read all the 
> replies---twice---and here are my thoughts:
>
> 1.  A common theme is to try a long stem to get more extension.  I'll try 
> that.  I don't think it'll help, but it's an easy experiment and I don't 
> trust my expectations enough to *not* try it.  The stem on the bike now 
> is 100mm and I have a 120mm available, so I'll swap them.  BTW, this is why 
> I like the threadless stem+riser setup so much; it's not as sleek, but I 
> don't have to disassemble anything but the stem itself to change it out.  
>
> 2.  Raise or lower the bars.  Again, raising is easy and I'll try it.  I 
> think it'll put me too much in the sit-up-and-beg position, which I don't 
> think I'll like, but again (again!), I don't completely trust my 
> expectations and it's easy to try.  I don't have enough room to lower them 
> by more than a few millimeters, and flipping the Albas would be almost like 
> trying another kind of bar, which leads me to.
>
> 3.  Try different upright bars. * I have a Bosco and an Albastache that I 
> could try, but I'm not sure I'm motivated enough to do it even though I 
> have the bars.*  The Bosco would put me higher and further back; the 
> former change I'll have mimicked by raising the Albas, and the latter 
> change is the opposite of swapping to a longer stem to get more reach. 
>  It's that sit-up-and-beg thing again.  I won't rule out trying the 
> Albastache, mainly because I want to try them on *something* and here's 
> my chance, but I think I'd be stretched way out unless I went with a 
> shorter stembut I might try it to be sure.  As much as I'd like to like 
> the Cheviot with uprights, swapping bars could lead down a rabbit hole of 
> trial-and-error.  I won't rule it out if I learn something from #1 and #2 
> that leads me to believe that a certain bar would work, but I'm not 
> inclined to go to exhaustive means to Find the Right Setup.  I'm happy with 
> my Sams and my other bikes with drops, and was curious about upright-bar 
> setups in general and the Cheviot specifically, but I might just be in the 
> camp of "don't like 'em" and will want to cut my losses after trying a few 
> reasonably easy solutions.  
>
> 4.  Try drop bars.  No one mentioned this option, but it's something I've 
> considered.  As it's set up now, the reach to the center of the stem clamp 
> is 1.5 cm longer than that on my Sams with Noodles, so I could replicate 
> the Sam's reach on my Cheviot by replacing the 100mm stem with an 80mm 
> stem.  Then what would I have, if not a Sam with longer chain stays and a 
> stepover option that I don't use now anyway (old habits are hard to break)? 
>  But I'm curious enough that I might try it to see.  It would let me assess 
> the Cheviot as the only variable.  
>
> That's it for now.  Again, thanks for everyone who weighed in.  If I learn 
> anything relevant that might help others then I'll add another entry to 
> this string.   
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Pondero]

Dave,

I'm an albatross fan, but it took me awhile to find my sweet spot.  I'll 
mention it here because seems a little different than what works for many 
of the folks who have commented.

Instead of higher bars and a longer stem, I found that using the same stem 
I used for my drop bars works for me.  However, I put the grips at saddle 
level.  When I sit on the saddle, and extend my hands with a slight elbow 
bend, the grips are exactly where my hands are.  The other key comfort move 
was the addition of Ergon grips.  They seem to be just right for taking the 
bar axis out of the nerve in my palm, and spreading any pressure across my 
entire hand.  Bar and grip angle help dial this in.  This formula provides 
ideal balance of my weight between saddle and bars.  During easy/moderate 
effort I have minimal weight on my hands on the grips.  During 
moderate/harder efforts I counter balance the increased weight on my hands 
on the forward curves with greater pedal pressure.  I know this wouldn't 
work for everyone, but it is delightful for my situation. 

Best wishes with your experimentation.  I hope you find the right 
bar/position for you.

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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[RBW] “The Man” Club

[Deacon Patrick]

In which a long existent club is recognized, the club for men who do things. Or 
something. Grin.
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/the-man-club

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[adam leibow]

Hey Dave, 

I have gone through a similar process. I wanted to get what everyone else 
got with albatross. I found that I liked a bosco bar for riding two blocks 
to the grocery or bar, but not for "real" rides, and not on my nicer bikes. 
I bought a Cheviot because I wanted the full upright, true Rivendell 
experience, but when I tried it with Choco bars, took them and sold them 
after one ride around the block. 

I found a great happy medium with regular nitto bullmoose bars.  Since I am 
on the smaller end of who fits a 60cm chev, my seatpost is slammed and the 
bike is upright no matter which bars I put on it. The slight rise of the 
bullmoose makes it even more so. I find that with a drop or regular 
flat/riser/mountain bar, my weight is more evenly distributed over both 
wheels, and with a bosco or alba, my weight is shifted more towards the 
rear, and that these bars prevent the style of riding I appreciate with 
drops or bullmoose. You can see pictures of this set up on the Blug, under 
"Adam Leibow's Cheviot" in the user-submitted rides part. 

hope this helps!

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 12:16:13 PM UTC-8, Dave Small wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As I read more and more testimonials from people about how awesome their 
> switch was to upright handlebars, I wanted to try 'em.  I like drop bars as 
> long as they're saddle-height or higher, but there's a semi-conscious part 
> of me that feels the teensiest-bit compelled to push drop-bar bikes just a 
> little, and sometimes I want to just putz along and enjoy the scenery, and 
> not even consider my speed or trip time.  Plus, as I get older I thought 
> that uprights may be in my future anyway, so why not give 'em a shot now?
>
> So, I took a Velo-Orange Polyvalent and replaced the drop bars with 
> porteur bars.  It's okay, but I feel like I'm kinda caught between a 
> forward lean and sitting upright, in a no-man's land of Tweenerville.  So 
> maybe this isn't the right bike on which to test upright bars, I thought, 
> so I converted a V-O Campeur from drop bars to V-O Left Bank bars.  Nope, I 
> thought, not fond of this.  But those Albatross bars that everyone thinks 
> is the bees knees?---let's try *those* on the Campeur!  It was better, 
> and I thought it might actually be fine, but the more I rode it the less I 
> liked it, so I swapped the bars back to drop and was reminded of what a 
> great bike the Campeur is---with drops.  
>
> Maybe those are the wrong bikes for uprights, I though, so I bought a 
> Cheviot and set it up with Albatross bars, 'cause the Cheviot was 
> *designed* for Albatross bars and Albas are *the best*, right?  Right? 
>  Everyone says so, so it must be true.  As I was engaging in this 
> experiment I thought to myself that would be the Gold Standard of 
> Upright-Bar Setups, and if I don't like this then I must not like upright 
> bars---but meanwhile I was sure it'd be *good* because everyone says it 
> is.  
>
> I don't like it.  A couple of days ago I took it out for what I'd intended 
> to be a 13-mile trial ride to see how things went at that relatively short 
> distance, and ended up going 24 miles.  That's a typical ride for me on a 
> drop-bar bike, and know how I feel when I get home.  On the Cheviot I felt 
> slow and never quite comfortable in a upright position, with the most 
> natural feeling coming when I was stretched out (relatively speaking) and 
> holding onto the bends that are furtherest toward the front.  But that's 
> close to where the bends would be on a drop-bar bike, so in essence I was 
> mimicking the position I'd be in on such a bike, and wasn't comfortable in 
> the position in which the Albas were designed to put me.  Also, my hands 
> got kinda numb and didn't work well; toward the end of the ride I tried to 
> wave a car through an intersection ahead of me by waving my fingers, and 
> they wouldn't bend.  I went a longer distance than I'd initially planned to 
> on that ride because I thought maybe I needed more time or distance to 
> acclimate to the Albas, but instead of things feeling better they felt 
> worse as the ride progressed.  
>
> With that background, I have 2 questions for the group:
>
> 1.  Has anyone else experienced something similar and then fixed it, for 
> example by raising or lowering the bars or the angle of the bars or 
> changing the stem extension?  There was a recent thread that indicated not 
> everyone likes upright bars (which I read only after I'd built up the 
> Cheviot), but it didn't get to my specific question about whether someone 
> could convert from nonliker to liker of uprights by adjusting 'em.  
>
> 2.  Has anyone used drop bars on a Cheviot?  I know they're not designed 
> for drops, but given that I liked the extended position the best, I'm 
> thinking that drops might be more suitable for me than uprights.  And 
> follow-up question:  Would drops on a Cheviot make it essentially a mixte 
> Sam Hillborne but with longer chain stays?  I'm th

[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Deacon Patrick]

Also, play with hip positioning (rotation forward or back), saddle position, 
and position forward or back on the saddle — that can all make a difference. I 
realized on this morning’s ride that I change my hip rotation and saddle 
position depending on how agressive my position is. However, I’m used to doing 
that, as I floor live (no chairs or cushy mattresses), which strengthens the 
core and limbers the hips and legs and back.

With abandon,
Patrick 

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Bill Lindsay]

Dave Small indicated that he’ll never try uprights again if he can’t get them 
to work for him now.  

I’d recommend that you never say never. Particularly since you claim that this 
project is anticipating you getting older and your needs changing over time. 
Maybe in 5 or 10 years you won’t be the identical human that you are today. 
There’s nothing wrong with concluding that you prefer drop bars today and you 
might be open to something else at another time. 

Try to have fun with it at any rate. 

Bill Lindsay 
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: FS- Nitto, MKS, Suntour, Carradice, Sugino & more

[ant ritchey]

grip king lambdas, carradice cadet, crane bell & sunrace thumb shifter have 
been claimed.

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[RBW] Re: “The Man” Club

[Wally Estrella]

HEY NOW.MAN!

https://www.facebook.com/WalzCaps/photos/a.10152951823692208.1073741833.62573802207/10156034478507208/?type=3&theater



On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 1:10:14 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> In which a long existent club is recognized, the club for men who do 
> things. Or something. Grin.
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/the-man-club
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>

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[RBW] Re: “The Man” Club

[J Imler]

I will ride today entirely b/c of this post. 

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:10:14 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> In which a long existent club is recognized, the club for men who do 
> things. Or something. Grin.
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/the-man-club
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>

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[RBW] ISO: 55cm Cheviot

[Bob K.]

Did you call Gravel and Grind? They had a 55 when I stopped by a week ago. 
Don’t remember the color, though.

Bob K. in Baltimore

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[RBW] Re: “The Man” Club

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Wally. They asked permission, but I don’t use social media, so I 
appreciate the link!f

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] “The Man” Club

[Bill Eberle in Columbus, Ohio]

Ima gonna turn in my Man Card right now. I just skipped my Monday gym commute 
because it's raining and 56°. I am not worthy.

Bill "still got my Woosie Card" Eberle in rainy Columbus, Ohio.

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[RBW] “The Man” Club

[Deacon Patrick]

Ha, Bill. Nae worries. Being stupid isn’t the only path to membership, just my 
path. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: “The Man” Club

[Bill Lindsay]

Also known as: Rule 9.  

Bill who-contemplated-Rule-9-at-some-length-this-morning Lindsay
El Cerrito, Ca

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:10:14 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> In which a long existent club is recognized, the club for men who do 
> things. Or something. Grin.
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/the-man-club
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: “The Man” Club

[Tim Butterfield]

Here is a shortcut if you had to google that like I did.
http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#9

Nice going, Patrick.

Tim (who has a lighted and fendered AHH mounted on a trainer stand - sad)

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Also known as: Rule 9.
>
> Bill who-contemplated-Rule-9-at-some-length-this-morning Lindsay
> El Cerrito, Ca
>
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:10:14 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> In which a long existent club is recognized, the club for men who do
>> things. Or something. Grin.
>> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/the-man-club
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.CredoFamily.org
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Brooks Cambium

[lconley]

Natural and black/slate sold, rust still available.

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:39:38 AM UTC-5, lconley wrote:
>
> Brooks Cambium Saddles, like new, 100 miles or less. C-19 natural, C-17 
> rust, C-17 black/slate?
> $90 each shipped CONUS PayPal.
> Laing
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: “The Man” Club

[Deacon Patrick]

The human powered gym is the only gym, and to not use human power to get to the 
gym is to defeat the purpose of the gym. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] ISO: 55cm Cheviot

[Philip Kim]

Yeah I'll have to give them a call. I'll be out of town at end of January so 
not sure if I can pick it up in time.

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Re: [RBW] Re: “The Man” Club

[lconley]

Wow, I have to reposition a lot of skewers when I go home tonight ...

Laing

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 4:19:16 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:

> Here is a shortcut if you had to google that like I did.
> http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#9
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Jon Dukeman,central Colorado]

I have built up a couple of sets of rims using Mavic A319. A very good 
middle of the road rim that builds up nicely.
I have had no problems, and they stay true.
https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/a-319-j24500.html#1028=3283&1035=3501
Jon

>

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[RBW] LF or Trade

[Carla Waugh]

My saddle is a women’s and I’m looking for a women’s. I want the large rivets 
and would like a Brooks Finesse or the same without ti rails. Thanks

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[RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks Jon.  I know they're not truly modern and light, but the wheelset I 
have for the Sam, at least the initial wheels, the ones I already have 
(bought and paid for long ago) have Mavic A719 rims.  And I totally agree 
that family of rims builds up strong and just fine.  The true touring and 
rough stuff bike gets the heavy duty rims (Velocity Atlas), the slightly go 
faster Sam (yeah, I know...) gets the A719's and at least light supple 
tires (Compass Barlow Pass).

It's the best I can do at the moment but I am happy and at peace!  And if 
funds fall from the sky, I can go take advantage of some of the other good 
suggestions here.

Still... peace and good, strong wheels are a beautiful thing!

Anyone know if the new canti-Sams have been safely delivered to Riv world 
headquarters?  Anyone have theirs yet?

Bob


On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 6:09:19 PM UTC-6, Jon Dukeman,central 
Colorado wrote:
>
>
> I have built up a couple of sets of rims using Mavic A319. A very good 
> middle of the road rim that builds up nicely.
> I have had no problems, and they stay true.
> https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/a-319-j24500.html#1028=3283&1035=3501
> Jon
>
>>

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[RBW] Smells like spring

[Andrew Huston]

45 degrees and a light rain in January bring the feeling that spring is only 
around the bend. In Michigan, optimistic to say the least. This is making me 
excited to see the annual bike swapping that goes on here. Even bikes that are 
too big or small for me to ride give me joy to look at and realize how someone, 
somewhere, is eagerly awaiting a new machine. Checking the fedex tracking 
number, dreaming of the personalized touches to make, and unboxing YOUR bike!  
Some ride the same bikes year after year, happy with their stable. Others, like 
me, are perpetual swappers. I had a point where I felt guilty that I was always 
chasing the next thing. I’m making strides to be less impulsive, be happy with 
less but I realize that without the impulse i would not have experienced all 
the flavors of the Rivendell rainbow. Although discs, big tires, and carbon 
fiber continue to dominate, I can’t shake the style that these bikes bring to 
the industry. This is a great group of people where mutual interest feeds us 
all in different ways. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Jon Dukeman]

Bob
I have a black Can't Sam ordered.
I heard a week ago they were in LA and might get to Riv in 2 weeks.
Jon

On Jan 22, 2018 6:07 PM, "Bob Lovejoy"  wrote:

> Thanks Jon.  I know they're not truly modern and light, but the wheelset I
> have for the Sam, at least the initial wheels, the ones I already have
> (bought and paid for long ago) have Mavic A719 rims.  And I totally agree
> that family of rims builds up strong and just fine.  The true touring and
> rough stuff bike gets the heavy duty rims (Velocity Atlas), the slightly go
> faster Sam (yeah, I know...) gets the A719's and at least light supple
> tires (Compass Barlow Pass).
>
> It's the best I can do at the moment but I am happy and at peace!  And if
> funds fall from the sky, I can go take advantage of some of the other good
> suggestions here.
>
> Still... peace and good, strong wheels are a beautiful thing!
>
> Anyone know if the new canti-Sams have been safely delivered to Riv world
> headquarters?  Anyone have theirs yet?
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 6:09:19 PM UTC-6, Jon Dukeman,central
> Colorado wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have built up a couple of sets of rims using Mavic A319. A very good
>> middle of the road rim that builds up nicely.
>> I have had no problems, and they stay true.
>> https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/a-319-j24500.html#1028=3283&1035=3501
>> Jon
>>
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[RBW] Rear V Brake Setup Help

[Conway Bennett]

All,

It's 50 in Chicago in January which means it'll be 40 in June but in any case 
the weather made the wife want to ride her new Rosco Mixte but I hadnt't setup 
brakes or shifting yet which leads me to this:

I have the sunrace levers and deore v brakes Riv sells.  I bought them new for 
this build.  I setup the front no problem but on the rear set up, the lever has 
some play before the brake engage and after the brakes do engage the first time 
after setup then there's lots of slack in the brake cable almost as if the 
housing wants to pop out of the barrel adjuster at the lever.  I've setup lots 
of v and can't I brakes bit I'm stumped.  

Any and all feedback is appreciated.


Fair winds,

Captain Conway
www.ChicaGoByBoat.com 

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[RBW] A. Homer Hilsen / San Marcos

[Michael in SF]

RBW Bunch,

2018 may be the year I put down a deposit on an A. Homer Hilsen.

Has anyone logged enough miles on both an AHH and a Soma San Marcos to 
comment on how the frames compare? i.e. functional/practical overlap, 
handling differences, weight, preference for one over the other given one's 
usage(s), etc.

And to small/medium (~ 54 cm) AHH owners in particular: any luck fitting 
650bx42 slicks under fenders with reasonable clearance?

Cheers,
Michael

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Scott McLain]

In the past I tried a SOMA Oxford bar on a Surly Cross Check and really 
didn't like it.  It was just too twitchy!  I attributed it to two things, 
the upright angles of the seat and headtube and the stem was sized for drop 
bars.

So I was curious to try albatross bars on my AHH. But before I took the 
plunge, I decided to call Riv and ask a couple of questions about stem 
lengths when going from drops to upright.  Guess who picked up the phone, 
Grant.  He had a couple of experiences to relate and told me that the frame 
angles were probably important to the feal of upright bars, but not 
necessarily the stem length.  He said if it felt to twitchy after the 
change to put on bigger tires.  So far I would say I am still getting used 
to a different riding position.

I am curious to try a drop bar with large flare like these on my touring 
bike.  They would look tough on a Chev and seem like you would use the 
drops more.
https://velo-orange.com/collections/handlebars/products/dajia-cycleworks-far-bar-handlebar

I agree that I feel a bit in no mans land when I ride the albatross, but at 
the same time there is no right and wrong.  I do like how it changes your 
"attitude" to relax a bit more and take in the scenery.  It helps me ride 
like a kid again.  My hands were a little sore because I was riding with 
thick ragwool gloves which couldn't grip the cork, so I couldn't use 
different hand positions.

My wife has a bosco bar on her Betty Foye.  It has a huge 13cm stem and it 
still has a cramped cockpit feel to me.  She loves it.
https://flic.kr/p/Eiwm5c






On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 1:16:13 PM UTC-7, Dave Small wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As I read more and more testimonials from people about how awesome their 
> switch was to upright handlebars, I wanted to try 'em.  I like drop bars as 
> long as they're saddle-height or higher, but there's a semi-conscious part 
> of me that feels the teensiest-bit compelled to push drop-bar bikes just a 
> little, and sometimes I want to just putz along and enjoy the scenery, and 
> not even consider my speed or trip time.  Plus, as I get older I thought 
> that uprights may be in my future anyway, so why not give 'em a shot now?
>
> So, I took a Velo-Orange Polyvalent and replaced the drop bars with 
> porteur bars.  It's okay, but I feel like I'm kinda caught between a 
> forward lean and sitting upright, in a no-man's land of Tweenerville.  So 
> maybe this isn't the right bike on which to test upright bars, I thought, 
> so I converted a V-O Campeur from drop bars to V-O Left Bank bars.  Nope, I 
> thought, not fond of this.  But those Albatross bars that everyone thinks 
> is the bees knees?---let's try *those* on the Campeur!  It was better, 
> and I thought it might actually be fine, but the more I rode it the less I 
> liked it, so I swapped the bars back to drop and was reminded of what a 
> great bike the Campeur is---with drops.  
>
> Maybe those are the wrong bikes for uprights, I though, so I bought a 
> Cheviot and set it up with Albatross bars, 'cause the Cheviot was 
> *designed* for Albatross bars and Albas are *the best*, right?  Right? 
>  Everyone says so, so it must be true.  As I was engaging in this 
> experiment I thought to myself that would be the Gold Standard of 
> Upright-Bar Setups, and if I don't like this then I must not like upright 
> bars---but meanwhile I was sure it'd be *good* because everyone says it 
> is.  
>
> I don't like it.  A couple of days ago I took it out for what I'd intended 
> to be a 13-mile trial ride to see how things went at that relatively short 
> distance, and ended up going 24 miles.  That's a typical ride for me on a 
> drop-bar bike, and know how I feel when I get home.  On the Cheviot I felt 
> slow and never quite comfortable in a upright position, with the most 
> natural feeling coming when I was stretched out (relatively speaking) and 
> holding onto the bends that are furtherest toward the front.  But that's 
> close to where the bends would be on a drop-bar bike, so in essence I was 
> mimicking the position I'd be in on such a bike, and wasn't comfortable in 
> the position in which the Albas were designed to put me.  Also, my hands 
> got kinda numb and didn't work well; toward the end of the ride I tried to 
> wave a car through an intersection ahead of me by waving my fingers, and 
> they wouldn't bend.  I went a longer distance than I'd initially planned to 
> on that ride because I thought maybe I needed more time or distance to 
> acclimate to the Albas, but instead of things feeling better they felt 
> worse as the ride progressed.  
>
> With that background, I have 2 questions for the group:
>
> 1.  Has anyone else experienced something similar and then fixed it, for 
> example by raising or lowering the bars or the angle of the bars or 
> changing the stem extension?  There was a recent thread that indicated not 
> everyone likes upright bars (which I read only after I'd built up the 
> 

[RBW] Re: Frame Pump for a 59-60cm gap?

[Birdman]

Snagged a XL Topeak Road Master Blaster on ebay for $20.  Someday a Silca...

Thanks y'all


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[RBW] Re: FS: Tubus, Ortlieb, Challenge, Vittoria, Nitto, MKS, etc...

[Jack K]

Updated "For Sale" list below...  Items no longer available have been 
marked with "*(SOLD)*", prices on most remaining items reduced. 

Cheers,

-Jack K.
Raleigh, NC

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 6:43:01 PM UTC-5, Jack K wrote:
>
> Hey iBOB's,
>
> I'm still liquidating many years of hoarding ... errr, I mean collecting 
> bike bits. More stuff added to the "for sale" list due to my realization 
> that I'll likely be relegated to recumbent riding for the forseeable 
> future, so I'd like to convert my holdings of diamond frame stuff into cash 
> and recumbent stuff. Lots of nice stuff here, almost all new and still in 
> the box. Shipping is by USPS and at cost (rounded to the nearest dollar). 
> Figure $10 plus or minus a dollar or two for most items to most parts of 
> the ConUS (I'm in Raleigh, NC). 
>
> Cheers and safe riding!
>
> -Jack K.
>
>
>- *Tires:*
>   - *(SOLD) NEW 3x Challenge Strada Bianca 700x30 Clincher / Black: 
> *Handmade 
>   “open tubular” tires still in their boxes, black sidewall version. 
> Larger 
>   than marked, extremely supple, comfortable, very low rolling 
> resistance. 
>   Can be a tight fit on some rims, but worth the effort. I’ve switched to 
> a 
>   559/406 wheeled recumbent and have no use for 700C tires now.   *$40 
>   for 1 / $78 for 2 / $125 for 3  + shipping*
>   - *(SOLD) NEW 1x Challenge Strada Bianca 700x30 Clincher / Tan: *As 
>   above, but the tan sidewall version of the same tire.   *$40 + 
>   shipping* 
>
>
>- *(SOLD) NEW 2x Vittoria Corsa G+ 700x28 Clinchers / Black: *A pair of 
> Vittoria's 
>   latest top of the line all-round sport tires. Another “open tubular” 
> that’s 
>   extremely supple for super grip, comfort and low rolling resistance. 
>   Measures 28mm wide on my Open Pro rims. The world’s first bicycle tire 
>   infused with graphene (to delight the materials scientists out there)! 
> One 
>   tire momentarily mounted on my RB-1 to test brake clearance.  The 
>   pair for *$80 + shipping*
>   - *NEW 2x Continental Grand Prix 4000s II 700x28 Clinchers / Black: 
>   *A pair of Conti’s GP 400S II’s in the big, puffy 700x28 size 
>   (which measures over *31mm* on even narrow Open Pro rims). This is 
>   an extremely well rounded, fast, durable tire at a great price. Mounted 
> on 
>   my RB-1 to test clearances, but never ridden.  The pair for *$70 + 
>   shipping*
>
>
>- *Panniers & Bags:*
>   - *NEW “Old Style” Ortlieb Bikepacker Plus Rear Panniers:* Black, 
>   extra $ “Plus” model with lighter weight 100% waterproof fabric. Older 
>   version with very useful exterior mesh pockets and 2 horizontal + 2 
>   vertical compression straps that are lacking on current model. 42 
> liters, 
>   QL1 mounting hardware. Current MSRP $240.  *$165 + shipping*
>   - *NEW “Old Style” Ortlieb Mini-Biker Lite Front Panniers:* Front 
>   pannier matching the “Old Style” Bikepacker Plus listed above. Black, 
> extra 
>   $ lightweight “Plus” fabric. Older version that’s very similar to the 
>   current Sport-Packer Plus model, but with very useful horizontal & 
> vertical 
>   compression straps that are lacking on current model. 20-25 liters, QL1 
>   mounting hardware.  MSRP $165 when they were available.  *$135 + 
>   shipping*
>   - *NEW Jandd “Mountain Wedge Expanding” Seatpack:  *Recently 
>   discovered in a box in my closet, tags still on, never mounted. Very 
> well 
>   made, typical Jandd quality. Black with large strip of 3M reflective 
>   material, 1.9 liters closed, 2.9 liters open.   *$22 + $5 shipping*
>
>
>- *Racks:*
>   - *LN Tubus Cosmo Stainless Rear Rack (with low-ish rider mounts):* 
>   Installed, then removed without ever having a pannier mounted on it 
>   less than 100 miles later. Indistinguishable from new other than 
> marking on 
>   adjustable seat-stay mounting arms where they were clamped by the rack 
>   hardware. Original version of the Cosmo, so very slightly different 
> than 
>   current model. Included is the $13 Tubus "Lower Rack Mounting Kit", 
> which 
>   can be used to position the rack slightly further back to increase 
>   clearance for heels or disc brakes, or help on bikes with short-ish 
>   chainstays. Paid $210+$13=$223 at TheTouringStore.Com a couple of years 
> ago.  
>   
> *$125 + shipping *
>
>
>- *Fenders:*
>   - *NEW SKS Longboard P35 Fenders: *Still zip-tied to packaging, 
>   bought and never installed. Black, 700x35, all hardware included.  *$30 
>   + shipping*
>   - *(SOLD) NEW SKS Bluemels B42 Fenders:* New-in-packaging, bought 
>   and realized they were too wide for my application. Black, 700x42, all 
>   hardware included. Still strapped to its cardboard packaging, so hard 
> to 
>   tell for certain, but the rear fender appears to have a sli

[RBW] A. Homer Hilsen / San Marcos

[ted]

I've had ~41mm soma gr tires under 45 sks longboards on my 56 AHH. Clearance 
was tight but sufficient for me, however I've decided I prefer 38mm tires. 
Makes it all easier vs just barely with the 40+ tires, and I doubt I could tell 
the ride of 38 and 42 tires apart.

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[RBW] Re: FS 60cm Cheviot

[Joe Bernard]

You might want to take a hair dryer to those stickers and peal them off. People 
are going to wonder what's under there. 

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[adam leibow]

I kind of just suffered in making the same decision. I was all set to buy a 
roadini and the second I saw the new sage Sams on the instagram, I changed 
my mind. I wanted a fast road-ish bike, but the new Sam looked so good and 
the reality is I always end up riding dirt. Figured the Sam would be fast 
enough on the roads ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 4:40:04 PM UTC-8, Tim Bantham wrote:
>
> Hello friends, I'm looking to do a road bike build and I am having trouble 
> deciding between keeping the Sam Hillborne frameset that I already own or 
> go in an entirely different direction starting from scratch with a new 
> Roadini frameset. I purchased the drop bar Sam as a complete in 2016. This 
> was my first Riv and I completely embraced the Rivendell philosophy of 
> "just ride". That drop bar Sam eventually morphed into an upright Albatross 
> set up. I got away from the drop bars because I wanted to try upright 
> riding to gain maximum comfort. This setup eventually became my S240 bike 
> and I became much more interested in riding with a heavy touring load. As 
> my interest in camping and touring grew I decided that I wanted a dedicated 
> tourer so I picked up an Appaloosa frame and swapped most of the parts over 
> from the Sam.  The Sam frameset is currently sitting in my basement. 
>
> I have decided that my riding would be best served by having two different 
> bike setups. I want to keep the Appaloosa for camping, touring, grocery 
> getting, commuting and casual riding with the Mrs. I want a second bike to 
> be a dedicated drop bar road bike that is unencumbered with racks and large 
> bags. I am thinking about building the Sam back up as a traditional sporty 
> road bike with a compact double crankset, the noodle bars that I already 
> own along with JB 33.'s and fenders. I want this bike to be my 
> relatively fast bike that I ride when I am looking to go out and get a 
> quick ride for pure recreation and fitness. I may even be ambitious enough 
> to go do a group ride with my old riding buddies from back in my racer 
> wannabe days. Lately, the Roadini has been the object of my desire. I am 
> thinking that if I get back into riding on the road in a typical club rider 
> fashion that I would be better served by having a more traditional road 
> bike like the Roadini. My vision for a Roadini would be to build it up in a 
> retro style with downtube shifters, Noodles, Sugino compact double and 28 
> to 33mm tires. 
>
> I think my desire for the Roadini is mostly driven by new bike lust. I 
> feel like I am constantly chasing that feeling you get when you buy a new 
> bike. The reality is what I have found through the years and many bike 
> purchases later is that "new bike day" euphoria typically fades fades and I 
> ended up chasing that feeling again with something else. I know that you 
> guys are not my therapist but can anybody share their thoughts on what 
> decision to make? Should I keep the Sam  and reinvent it as a sporty road 
> bike or should I take the plunge and go for a new Roadini to satisfy my 
> sporty road bike urge?
>
>
>

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[RBW] Smells like spring

[lum gim fong]

Smelled like spring today in Maryland.
Went for a ride on my 53 Bleriot.
I have a Rambouillet also.
I have owned a Sam, too.
I like the Rambouillet best and hope to get another one or Roadeo sometime. 
Can’t wait for springtime weather again!

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