[RBW] Re: Roadini - How do you like yours?

[Joe Bernard]

I'll second the 'keeper' status. I did a nice town ride on mine today and it's 
SUCH a great bike. I have a tendency to catch and release a lot, but this one 
has a special vibe for me that I'm quite surprised by. 

I've really enjoyed the longer/plusher Rivs I've owned the last few years, but 
seem to prefer the slightly harder edge of the Roadini. The Sparkly Orange 
helps, too. I've learned the hard/expensive way that muted earth tones just 
aren't my thing..I like in your face and bright!

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[RBW] Re: Roadini - How do you like yours?

[jack loudon]

Thanks for your remarks, Bill.  I'm glad to know you still enjoy your 
Roadini after the infatuation period has subsided.  I recall you own some 
very special bikes, so I was specifically wondering if Leo had earned 
'keeper' status.  Now I know.

Jack
Seattle

On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 8:22:33 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Short answer:
>
> I like my Roadini very much.  
>
>
> TL/DR answer:
> I got started cycling in the Summer of 1982.  I was 13, between 7th and 
> 8th grade.  I was hero-worshipping two friends from church. Kirk was my age 
> and Keith was one year older. The three of us all saved up and bought bikes 
> around the same time and we were all kind of a mini-club in 
> ourselves. Whatever one of us did, all of us did. We didn't read any 
> magazines really, and there certainly was nothing cycling related on TV or 
> in the newspaper. My parents didn't know anything about it. Anything I knew 
> was what Keith and Kirk told me or what they told me at Village 
> Schwinn. That early 80s period is one that I still think of as a golden age 
> for cycling. Japan was fully in their stride manufacturing spectacular 
> quality components up and down the price spectrum. There were sensational 
> lugged steel frames from Japan and the USA, and the 'racing' models were 
> squeezed into the corner where they belong. There were also some awesome 
> touring and camping models, but the healthy middle from ~$300 to ~$800 was 
> a luscious spread of sport-touring machines. I saved up and bought the $320 
> Univega Sportour, which was the cheapest Univega with 700c wheels. It was 
> "gunmetal grey". I used it to get around everywhere, and took it on 20-50 
> mile rides all around Orange County. When I started high school, they bused 
> my Yorba Linda neighborhood across three towns to a school in Fullerton. I 
> couldn't stand the bus, so after 1 week of that mess, I rode every single 
> day, 7 miles each way, on that bike. I bought a Blackburn Low Rider for it 
> and ran some small panniers and did overnighters with Kirk and/or 
> Keith. Later in the 1980s I started working at Village Schwinn and got into 
> the wanna-be racer stuff, with Jock Boyer, Alexi Grewal, Davis Phinney and 
> Greg Lemond, etc. My Grilver Leo is the return back to that Univega 
> Sportour, an all purpose road bike that I can take on any road ride a 
> normal person could ever want to take a road bike on. It's a decidedly 
> sporty, athletic, sport touring machine. If your cycling never involves 
> pinning an actual number to your jersey, you aren't a racer. The Leo is all 
> the road bike any non-racer would ever need. 
>
> This should be a link to my build-photo:  FLICKR LINK 
> 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> 57cm Grilver Leo
> 75.5cm Saddle Height
> El Cerrito, CA 
>
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 6:59:52 PM UTC-7, Jonathan K. wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to convince myself that I do/don't need a Roadini. I have a 
>> Sam that I bought to be my road bike, but it's been gradually taking on 
>> more of a beast of burden role. Originally quite minimalist, I am now 
>> running racks and bags fore and aft for commuting. So, I'd like to get a 
>> bike to fill the role of lightweight, long distance, weekend rider.
>>
>> The Roadini has been out for a while now, and there seems to be a fair 
>> amount of them out in the world. So, for anyone who has been riding their 
>> Roadini for a while, how do you like it? I'm interested in thoughts, 
>> impressions, reviews, comparisons to other road bikes, etc. Would you 
>> recommend one over other bikes to someone who wants a simple road bike for 
>> (relatively) fast long distance riding? Pictures are encouraged, of course!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[jack loudon]

Doug said "I was told that you really start to notice the difference with 
Compass at 32 and above."

I have to agree with the above.  My Compass 28's have to be pumped to near 
90psi to avoid pinch flats, and at this pressure I don't feel much 
suppleness so there's little to distinguish them from other 28mm tires, 
except for higher cost and lower flat protection. With low pressures on my 
Compass 35's and larger, the the suppleness is there and IMO the cost is 
justified.  

Jack
Seattle 



On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 8:30:54 AM UTC-7,
>
> The Vittoria Corsa G+ is my next 28c purchase. Every review I’ve read and 
> heard from others is that they are almost indistinguishable from Compass 
> tires in ride quality. Of course they are much cheaper.  
>
> Doug Bloch 
> Alameda CA USA

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[RBW] Re: Disc Rambouillet?

[Joe Bernard]

I think you'd have to really hate calipers to go to all that trouble. I like 
discs, too, but not enough to rebuild my Roadini for them..I'd just buy a disc 
bike. 

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[RBW] Re: Disc Rambouillet?

[Mark Schneider]

Was listening to the Bike Show Podcast a few years ago, an interview with a 
custom builder who was totally against lightweight forks and disk brakes, 
and that was for a purpose built bike. That said Crust Bikes sells a nice 
fork that you could use for a 650b up to 2.25, it's 200 bucks but has a bit 
more rake, so your big feet wouldn't hit the front wheel anymore:]

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 11:17:03 AM UTC-7, Kieran J wrote:
>
> All this talk about Rams and 650b conversions has me thinking: is it a 
> crazy idea to add disc mounts to my Ram?
> It would open up the possibility of 584x48 and fenders, while also 
> preserving the option of reverting back to 700x35 sans fenders.
> Any words of caution on this? 
>
> KJ
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Has independent testing of Compass tires done?

[Lum Gim Fong]

I am aware of BQ’s testing methodologies and ideas regarding tire performance, 
as well as their beliefs on the shortcomings of drum tests.

But I would also be interested in a literature survey of tire tests utilizing 
other methods, as well as similar methods done by others.

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Re: [RBW] What epoch of Rivster are you?

[Bill Gibson]

I saw Grant's Brookstones at a local Outdoor shop when they were new, and
noticed how smart they were, but I couldn't afford them. I was assembling
my bikes from used parts!
I first saw Rivendell bikes on the Internet, read Grant's blog about the
trials of starting up Rivendell. I remember wandering the Sierra when
people were packing Rivendell packs, which Grant is said to have named his
company after. I carried a Kelty frame pack.
The first Rivendell bike I saw in person was at a Seattle Bike Show in
1997. One beautiful bike, but nothing else, just a lonely guy sitting there
next to it (not Grant). I was too shy to sit down and say hello.
I got a used green Quickbeam and then got into Baggins bags and bike
camping and How to Ride Happy. That's my era; I am not paleo, still
vegequarium (some seafood now and then, otherwise good plants).
Currently, the Quickbeam is mostly stock parts but overdressed (With a 9
speed SRAM I-9 planetary gear rear hub, Stainless Steel Berthoud fenders,
racks, etc. It’s very comfortable, functional, and intrepid.
I want to try a front loading, wider tired, lighter, more flexy, Rando
Gravel bike someday, with fenders, along Bicycle Quarterly style lines, but
if I win the lottery, I could ride a newer Rivendell.
It really is the best time to be a cyclist, or a photographer!

My other bikes are a 1997 Cannondale F-1000 converted to city bike, and a
1970 Gitane 531DB road bike with old Simplex and Campangnolo bits. And a
1980s Gary Fisher Tandem! Splatter Paint!


Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA
My Photographs  :
https://billbgibson.myportfolio.com/ and on Behance:
https://www.behance.net/BillGibson 


On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:30 PM William deRosset 
wrote:

> MB1, Atlantis (Toyo) and a Heron Touring. Only the last has stayed with
> me, and is on near-permanent loan to my trailer-pulling brother. That bike
> is the best trailer tractor of all time. It is also the subject of one of
> the best film-camera shots of my bikes ever. It is on the wall, not
> scanned, so I won't share it, but it is a reminder of the Heron's
> understated elegance and intrepid versatility.
>
> Proto-riv for me.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Will
> William M deRosset
> Fort Collins CO USA
>
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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[Jon Spangler]

I have ridden Panaracer Paselas now for about 16 years and love them. They 
have been affordable, durable, not at all flat-prone, and are responsive 
and comfortable enough for me to be happy with them on two AIDS/LifeCycle 
rides (2002, 2003--no flats in 545 miles either time) and at 45 MPH on 
descents. I usually run them at 90 PSI for normal Bay Area road rides in 
the East Bay Hills.

My 1970s Windsor Pro has a 28mm front and a 32mm rear for the steep dirt 
and gravel sections. I have yet to ride them for long distances at 60-65 
PSI but believe that is my next step down from 80-85 PSI for Eroica 2019.

The other reason I prefer them to darker tires like the Continentals is 
that the tan sidewalls "look right" on a classic steel road bike...

Jon Spangler
Alameda, CA USA



On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 6:07:07 PM UTC-7, John Casteen wrote:
>
> I second the view for Paselas. At 28mm and 65 pounds rear, 60 front, 
> they're really comfortable.

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[RBW] Re: Has independent testing of Compass tires done?

[William deRosset]

Hi, all,

No tire that performs badly on a drum performs well in roll down testing. The 
inverse is not necessarily true. A drum test can point to a fast tire, but, 
because it doesn't account for losses in the sprung weight (that would mostly 
be the windbag pushing the pedals), cannot tell the whole tale.

For example, the second-fastest published roll down test run was a 27mm 
tubular. These do not typically perform that well on drums if glued with road 
(contact) glues due to the extra squirm, but they provide reduced suspension 
losses for the bag of meat sitting on the saddle in roll down tests relative to 
clinchers of similar construction.

Mr. Heine  correctly identified this deficiency in many "scientific" analyses 
of rolling resistance. They were only capturing tire casing hysteresis and not 
all the vibratory losses associated with a bicycle and rider rolling over a 
real-world surface. 

As long as you always sit down and spin, his conclusions seem to be well 
supported by riding. Stand up, or Sprint at speed, and there are significant 
factors not accounted for by a roll-down or a steady-state seated effort.

Best Regards,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO USA

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[RBW] Re: New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[Mark Schneider]

Awesome, need to get work to approve one for trail maintenance, haul 
chainsaws and rogue hoe's.

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 2:35:01 PM UTC-7, Drw wrote:
>
> Just finished converting my rosco mtn mixte with a crust cargo fork. I 
> think it came out perfectly weird. Shakedown ride says it rides 
> surprisingly normal, though I need to cut the steerer down some more. 
> Eventually it’ll get a big basket on the front and a kid seat on the back. 

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Mark Schneider]

I prefer a rack supported type bag, I had the Rivendell bag with Nitto F15 
rack, the bag was super cool with a magnet in the lid to keep it closed, 
typical Rivendell Bag quality, wish they'd designed it to fit over a 
tombstone to sit on a Marks Rack. I didn't care for how it affected my 
bikes handling. Having weight up front will affect handling especially on a 
Rivendell with high trail geometry,  lowering the weight will help. Velo 
Orange has a nice Rando bag now made by Road Runner bags in LA. Treetop 
bags is another musa brand,  they have nice bags including a mini rando bag 
for 70 bucks.


On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 9:13:54 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
> an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
>
> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
> only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
>
> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would 
> not regret the purchase, tho.
>
> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
> operation, which seems slick.
>
> Any opinions out there?
>

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[RBW] Re: Has independent testing of Compass tires done?

[Mark Schneider]

Not sure these guys will test Compass tires, I might be mistaken but I 
believe Jan has been pretty dismissive of drum testing. He doesn't think it 
represents real world riding.

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 3:50:23 PM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> I was looking at this site and wondering why Compass tires haven't been 
> put up against others here, since Compass seems to be leading the fast tire 
> revolution these days. I would think they would want samples to test.
>
>
>
> https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/panaracer-race-a-evo-3-2018
>

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[RBW] Has independent testing of Compass tires done?

[DarinM]

German cycling magazine Tour, has tested at least one of them. I think the 
622x35 model.

Darin

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[RBW] Re: PSA: Jenny's AHH

[Mark Schneider]

I love the color, but I have one. I think it may be a little high 
considering the damage, hope she gets it though.

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 6:34:22 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Jenny @ Riv's 2TT frame, royal blue. S pretty, I wish I could fit it. 
>
>
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F202451221289
>

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[RBW] New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[Drw]

Didn’t riv call it a mountain mixte until a few people got particular and 
corrected them?

That’s a joke. I’m aware it’s missing 2 extra chainstays.

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[RBW] Re: PSA: Jenny's AHH

[sameness]

Ugh. My size Homer. Love the color. Indifferent to that second tube. Don't 
need another lonesome dusty frame sitting in the corner staring at me like 
a three-legged mutt at the shelter. Somebody buy it before I do something 
dmb.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 6:34:22 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Jenny @ Riv's 2TT frame, royal blue. S pretty, I wish I could fit it. 
>
>
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F202451221289
>

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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[eddietheflay]

Conti 4000. On my 23 mm rims the 28 mm Conti tires measure close to 30 mm 
inflated to 80psi. I like that they have a nice minimal tread and that 
means to some degree you can see the wear happening. Tire are cushy, wear 
well, and do not seem at all flat prone. Michelin slick 28 Endurance Pros 
good too. I simply prefer the Conti.

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 6:33:23 AM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Needs to be a slick.
> For on street road riding.
> Good cornering (no dive)
> Good in the rain.
> Supple.
> Fast.

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[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Sam Hillborne, dark orange

[tc]

The Sam has been sold.  Thanks to all who expressed interest!

Tom

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[RBW] PSA: Jenny's AHH

[Joe Bernard]

Jenny @ Riv's 2TT frame, royal blue. S pretty, I wish I could fit it. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F202451221289

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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[Kevin Mulcahy]

Passellas aren’t the bargain they used to be during the skinny tire heyday. 
There’s many better alternatives these days, as has been mentioned in previous 
posts. 

Gravel King, Compass, Conti GP4000, Veloflex, Soma SV, are all great choices. 

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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[John Casteen]

I second the view for Paselas. At 28mm and 65 pounds rear, 60 front, they're 
really comfortable.

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[RBW] New Rosco Cargo Mixte

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I've been thinking about a Crust cargo fork; they do have a slightly disturbing 
appearance. Kinda fits in with the lift-a-tube, sorta. I'm sure you know your 
bike is not a mixte. I'm okay with new categories, like "hill bike." But a 
mixte refers to a specific frame style, of which this is not. I know Riv 
referred to it as such once or twice, but that doesn't make it any less 
incorrect.

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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[Mark Schneider]

For supple, light, and fast, Compass Chinook Pass, or Challenge 
Paris-Roubaix 700x27 but actually wider than the Compass Chinook once 
mounted. Panaracer Pacella's are great for the money 

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 6:33:23 AM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Needs to be a slick.
> For on street road riding.
> Good cornering (no dive)
> Good in the rain.
> Supple.
> Fast.

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[RBW] Was “epoch of Rivster” - Now the Tech Immune Bike

[James Warren]

There is a great email today from Riv about the tech-immune bike.

That in a nutshell is why I’ve been a fan of Riv/Bridgestone’s/Grant’s approach 
for 27 years now. We may wring our hands over the details like whether the TT 
slopes 6 degrees or which frame joints have lugs or the number of top tubes. 
Such details may push us into Golden Age or 2TT subgroups. But however that 
goes, to me the value that spans all the epochs is the design that is centered 
around something that will work well and be easy to fix by not being locked 
into any one specialized or dedicated system. I remember a great explanation in 
the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about beating dedicated parts systems. They showed 
a photo of a bike with DiaCompe, Shimano, and Sugino and said “a combo you’ll 
only find on Bridgestones”. They explained how the thumbshifter is less 
vulnerable than Rapid Fire and gives more freedom to mix parts and can be made 
to work with any brand’s derailleur or freewheel as the bike ages.

The first phrase I read in The Bridgestone catalog that hooked me in 1991 was 
“Don’t chase technology.” That principle has guided Riv all along, and it’s why 
I’m here.

-Jim W.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 27, 2018, at 9:29 AM, Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
> 
> Precursor Era!
> 
> I have a 1999 Bontrager set up as you describe. 9/8 steerer, but still pretty 
> short headtube. It's my fastest bike, faster than the LeMond with 30mm 
> GP2000s, but can still get into the dirt. The only thing I'd change would be 
> to add a dropper post. I guess that would be a "cousin species" coexisting in 
> the Golden Age? 
> 
> Philip 
> Santa Rosa, CA
> 
> 
>> On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7, Daniel M wrote:
>> Prequel / Proto-proto / Embryo... There is nothing in Rivendell's current 
>> lineup that excites me nearly as much as my 1993 Bridgestone MB-1 that I 
>> converted to high flared drop bars (basically recreating the 1987 cockpit) 
>> and shoed with extralight Compass tires. If I were to try to improve on this 
>> design, I'd give it an up-sloping (and slightly shorter) top tube and a 
>> longer head tube so it wouldn't need such a tall stem to get the bars so 
>> high (NORBA geometry is long and low). I'd gladly accept TIG welds instead 
>> of lugs, and I'd frankly prefer 1+1/8" threadless, but these are minor 
>> nitpicks. The bike is athletic, lightweight, flexy in the right way, and 
>> wonderfully quick on rough surfaces.
>> If Riv were to re-design this bike today (they kinda just did), it would 
>> have heavier tubing, super-long chainstays, and 650b wheels, none of which 
>> would be improvements for me. There is something about the creative tension 
>> of the Bridgestone bikes (racing-driven market forces vs. Grant-driven 
>> practicality) that I love. It's why the Police and the Smiths are far better 
>> bands than any of the solo projects that followed.
>> 
>> Daniel M
>> Berkeley, CA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>  
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[RBW] Re: Ahearne+Map Comfort... Also, WTB

[tc]

Cam, 
Currently I prefer drops (46 Noodle 
)
 
for that long a ride because of the variations in hand positions.  I have 
the 46 Noodle on my Sam (for sale) and my Roadini.  For long rides, the 
more hand positions, the better.   And why not use a Noodle on a Riv, with 
the tall headtube and geometry that gets that bar up there where it's 
comfortable ... plus, you can now get an insanely short stem from Analog 
, or a dirt drop 
,
 
or a 50mm Technomic Deluxe 
,
 
and get your bar w-a-y up there so you can take advantage of the many hand 
positions the Noodle offers.

Having said that, I have an Ahearne+Map bar on my Atlantis.  It is my fav 
non-drop bar so far.  It offers a nice upright ride, and a different 
feeling, from a dropwhich is what I wanted with the Atlantis, on which 
I do shorter rides.  Originally I wanted to do off-road with it too, but 
standover is too high.  Anyway, it's a superb middle of the road betw a 
drop and Albatross or Bosco.  Could I go 50 miles on one - sure.  But I 
would rather do that distance on a Noodle so I could move around.  Drops on 
Riv's are not to be confused with drops on any other road bike...it's just 
so much more comfy.

Tom

PS.  Deacon Patrick and others like the Albastache so much that I bought 
one and am deciding which bike to try it out on.  Isn't it great there's 
always "something else" ?!

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[RBW] What epoch of Rivster are you?

[William deRosset]

MB1, Atlantis (Toyo) and a Heron Touring. Only the last has stayed with me, and 
is on near-permanent loan to my trailer-pulling brother. That bike is the best 
trailer tractor of all time. It is also the subject of one of the best 
film-camera shots of my bikes ever. It is on the wall, not scanned, so I won't 
share it, but it is a reminder of the Heron's understated elegance and intrepid 
versatility.

Proto-riv for me.

Best Regards,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO USA

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[RBW] Bearing suggestions?

[William deRosset]

Dear Patrick,

SKF or NTN size 61902 bearings with contact seals (2rs is the most common) in 
either side are excellent.

 If you aren't doing your own work, then whatever your shop recommends is best, 
of course. Make sure they don't overdo the side preload (no play, but only just 
no play at the rim-too little is usually worse than too much for wheel 
bearings), and I would check to see which bearing went bad. 

The non-drive is pretty well protected by the preload collar, but the drive 
side is somewhat exposed to water etc. If both went bad, and the grease inside 
them is clean, then the preload was not properly set. If only one bearing is 
bad, then it probably got contaminated.

Unfortunately, simple lip seals (like those present on the Paul bearings or the 
Phil hubs) aren't going to seal out contamination by water and grit for long, 
and the Paul design lacks dedicated dust shields to prevent contamination. I 
would get comfy with a bearing puller and your local bearing supplier. The big 
advantage to the Paul design is that it is easy to pull and replace bearings. 

One other thing you can do. If the bearings are not gritty or rough, you can 
carefully pull the seals with a razor blade/xacto knife, flush the bearing with 
solvent, replace one seal, and fill it with Marine bearing grease, readily 
available at an auto parts store. Then replace the other seal. Regular 
repacking may extend the life of the unshielded bearing.

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins CO USA

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[RBW] Re: Bearing suggestions?

[tc]

Patrick, 
Paul seems to be a cool, reasonable kinda guy.  You are essentially 
providing a test ground for him.  If it were me, I'd approach him with your 
predicament and ask that he ponder it and offer you an alternative.  
Bearings should not wear out that quickly!

Tom
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Sam Hillborne, dark orange

[tc]

Hey Nick, sent PM.

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-4, Nick Morehouse wrote:
>
> Im in for it if Kens friend hasnt already taken you up on it.

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[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Sam Hillborne, dark orange

[tc]

Hey Ken, sent PM.

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 4:33:49 PM UTC-4, Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>
> Have a close friend that would like to buy, but hasn't been accepted to 
> the group yet...  I sent PM, but it's hard to know for certain if it went 
> through or not.  TC, please feel free to reply to me directly if you did 
> not get the contact information first time around.   
>
> This is my public outing that please, don't anyone else buy it :D 
>
> On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:11:47 PM UTC-5, tc wrote:
>>
>> Hey folks, dropping the price to $1400 shipped, and including a pair of 
>> new, never-mounted BG RnR blackwalls.
>>
>> On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 8:13:57 PM UTC-4, tc wrote:
>>>
>>> $1600 + my cost to have it professionally packed and shipped to you via 
>>> bike flights.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> Sale price does *not *include:
>>> - Pedals
>>> - Saddle
>>>
>>> I bought it new from Riv as a 'complete' in July of 2017.  You can see 
>>> Riv's spec's for the complete drop bar build here:
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/sam-hillborne-complete-drop-bar (no 
>>> more 58s at Riv, evidently, but build is the same).
>>>
>>> The only mod's I had done were to:
>>> 1. Replace the 48 Noodle that comes with a 58 with a 46, and wrap with 
>>> black cork tape+twine
>>> 2.  Add a Pletscher kickstand.
>>>
>>> I put the original Kenda 38mm tires back on it.  They have about 50 mi 
>>> on them.
>>>
>>> I just cleaned it up, and honestly, it looks brand new, except for a 
>>> single very small 3mm scratch on the drive side seat stay, shown in one of 
>>> the pic's.  No rust.  The paint and decals are pristine.  
>>>
>>> Pictures for the bike as offered for sale are here:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/9uSUDtGvFpqdcgsdA
>>>
>>> Other pictures of it in various stages are here:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/9kfJxuf3sXyDyBoA3
>>>
>>> Thanks for looking,
>>> Tom
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[Justin, Oakland]

That puts Sean Learner’s Rockhopper Crust Clydesdale to shame. RAISE THE BAR IN 
WERIDNESS

-J

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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[Lum Gim Fong]

I came on the scene about 2011-12 by buying a used 55 Bleriot. My first 
Bleriot.
So that puts me into the *"No 650b tires available except for four models, 
two of which are out of production now, and no 650b tubes anywhere on the 
planet" era*. That was my perception at the time based on my first online 
searches for 650b tires. People in this group were very helpful in pointing 
me in the right direction for tires and tubes. It was like, at first 650b 
tire selection started, then briefly died, nowadays has exploded.
I came from a 700c riding so all the 650b stuff was new for me.

I remember how tough it was to decide on a tire for my first Riv (Bleriot) 
when there wasn't much around. None of the options fit my 700c road riding 
tire Specialized/Conti preferences (fast, puncture protected, all black). I 
rode Rumpkins and Swiftys. After that I pretty much settled on Panaracers 
(GB/Compass).

Now I am in the *"Marginalized loyal Riv-rider" era. ;)*
I have ridden only Rivendells ever since 2012.
I own only a Roadeo and Rambouillet now. I need lightweight/tubing bikes 
for my small stature and weak riding abilities. 8/5/8 and higher too much 
for me. But RBW doesn't seem into that anymore. They have moved into 
developing stout bikes now. Perhaps some lightweight flyers will return 
some day.

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[RBW] Has independent testing of Compass tires done?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Pretty sure others have verified Compass’ tire testing. Not sure if it’s on 
their blog or in one of the recent BQs.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Bearing suggestions?

[Lum Gim Fong]

Smart man.

The kind of riding you do I would think that your 10 miles on a hub is like 
100 miles on a road rider's hub.


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[RBW] Re: Bearing suggestions?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

No idea. I don’t track.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Bearing suggestions?

[Lum Gim Fong]

They only lasted 7 months?
About how many miles would you say? 

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[RBW] Has independent testing of Compass tires done?

[Lum Gim Fong]

I was looking at this site and wondering why Compass tires haven't been put 
up against others here, since Compass seems to be leading the fast tire 
revolution these days. I would think they would want samples to test.


https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/panaracer-race-a-evo-3-2018

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Re: [RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[James Warren]

The Chica Warrior bikes!-Original Message-
From: Philip Williamson 
Sent: Sep 28, 2018 10:13 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: [RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

Aha! All those Roscos were pretty experimental, and cut across the strata in interesting ways. The Arcana or Enigmatic Rivs would also include Patrick Moore's 26" wheeled road bikes, the Mystery Bike, and the custom fixed-gear mountain bike that caused such a stir several years ago. Philip Santa Rosa, CA On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:16:20 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:Can we throw an 'Experimental' or 'Avant Garde' Epoch for the odd ball Rosco's and any other one off frames they've done ;) I love my Rosco Road.I was turned on during the AHH/Sam/Atlantis/Hunq days so that is where my heart lies, even though I don't have any of those (anymore). So a 2TTer. But I've always leaned toward the Golden Age and keep my eye out for an orange Ram (especially after seeing Evan's).



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[RBW] Panaracer Race A Eno 3 tires any good?

[Lum Gim Fong]

Nice price.
I was wondering if they are any good or not.

Sluggsh or fast?
Grippy in the wet?

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[RBW] Re: New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[Drw]

It did get expensive...more than I anticipatedbut you can’t stop halfway in

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[RBW] Re: New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[Bill Lindsay]

That is PSYCHO

APPROVE

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 2:35:01 PM UTC-7, Drw wrote:
>
> Just finished converting my rosco mtn mixte with a crust cargo fork. I 
> think it came out perfectly weird. Shakedown ride says it rides 
> surprisingly normal, though I need to cut the steerer down some more. 
> Eventually it’ll get a big basket on the front and a kid seat on the back. 

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[RBW] Re: New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[Joe Bernard]

Ah geez, I bought an old Bianchi pre-29er to hit the trails with, now I want to 
weird it out with a cargo fork. This is gonna get expensive!

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[RBW] Re: New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[sameness]

Super weird. Super rad.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[Joe Bernard]

Mark @ Riv has an Element, too, and Rich has that Ford C-Max hybrid thing based 
on the Focus. Both look like the big square sheds they park in front of 😋 

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[RBW] New Rosco Cargo Mixte

[J Imler]

Well done. For kid hauling playground stomping it's a home run. 

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[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Sam Hillborne, dark orange

[Nick Morehouse]

Im in for it if Kens friend hasnt already taken you up on it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS (tentatively): 2speed 60cm Green Sparkle Cheviot complete

[Adam Leibow]

Hi Dave,
I am really trying to make space in my small apartment and pay off a loan.
This being said I have had a semi-custom B+ hardtail in the pipeline made
by my friend Carlos Velazquez under the name Dark Moon Cycles. I also just
bought a Surly Midnight special frame, and some expensive dynamo wheels. So
not any exact 1 for 1 replacements, just moving on I guess.
Cheers
Adam

Adam Leibow
Junior Associate IALD

*PRITCHARD/PECK* LIGHTING
389 Clementina St. | San Francisco, CA 94103
office 415.323.5540
pritchardpeck.com


On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 12:24 PM Dave Grossman  wrote:

> Whats new in the queue?
>
>>
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[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Sam Hillborne, dark orange

[Ken Yokanovich]

Have a close friend that would like to buy, but hasn't been accepted to the 
group yet...  I sent PM, but it's hard to know for certain if it went 
through or not.  TC, please feel free to reply to me directly if you did 
not get the contact information first time around.   

This is my public outing that please, don't anyone else buy it :D 

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:11:47 PM UTC-5, tc wrote:
>
> Hey folks, dropping the price to $1400 shipped, and including a pair of 
> new, never-mounted BG RnR blackwalls.
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 8:13:57 PM UTC-4, tc wrote:
>>
>> $1600 + my cost to have it professionally packed and shipped to you via 
>> bike flights.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Sale price does *not *include:
>> - Pedals
>> - Saddle
>>
>> I bought it new from Riv as a 'complete' in July of 2017.  You can see 
>> Riv's spec's for the complete drop bar build here:
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/sam-hillborne-complete-drop-bar (no 
>> more 58s at Riv, evidently, but build is the same).
>>
>> The only mod's I had done were to:
>> 1. Replace the 48 Noodle that comes with a 58 with a 46, and wrap with 
>> black cork tape+twine
>> 2.  Add a Pletscher kickstand.
>>
>> I put the original Kenda 38mm tires back on it.  They have about 50 mi on 
>> them.
>>
>> I just cleaned it up, and honestly, it looks brand new, except for a 
>> single very small 3mm scratch on the drive side seat stay, shown in one of 
>> the pic's.  No rust.  The paint and decals are pristine.  
>>
>> Pictures for the bike as offered for sale are here:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/9uSUDtGvFpqdcgsdA
>>
>> Other pictures of it in various stages are here:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/9kfJxuf3sXyDyBoA3
>>
>> Thanks for looking,
>> Tom
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Lum Gim Fong]

The Berthoud GB25 is a fantastic bag if you are not concerned about weight. 
Empty, and without stiffner, it is 600+ grams.
You would also need a front rack to support it.
But it has so much function, it is worth it if you are a string rider and 
not weight concerned.

I have one for sale if interested, PM me. I have a FS thread here about it, 
too.

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[William deRosset]

Dear Ryan,

I'd second this approach. Alternatively, get a thwart bag (Rivendell sold 
them for a long spell) and add a foam insert,  get a full-size handlebar 
bag like an Ortleib (available with a photo insert) that clamps to the 
handlebars, or a full-on decaleur/handlebar bag/support rack.

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 10:28:15 AM UTC-6, Ryan M. wrote:
>
> I throw a Pentax MX with a 50mm f1.4 lens into my Sackville banana sack 
> that is mounted on the choco moose handlebars on my Appaloosa and it seems 
> to work well. I have a tube stuffed in the bottom of that bag for 
> emergencies and it does a pretty good job of padding the camera.
>
> On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 11:13:54 AM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>>
>> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
>> an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
>>
>> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
>> only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
>>
>> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would 
>> not regret the purchase, tho.
>>
>> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
>> operation, which seems slick.
>>
>> Any opinions out there?
>>
>

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[RBW] Bearing suggestions?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Came with Enduro bearings, and my wheel builder is suggesting Phil Wood 
bearings to replace.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[Drew Henson]

Golden Age'r. Catch is I've never actually owned a riv but my first is on 
it's way soon i hope (MIT AHH). i found riv around 2008-09. badly wanted an 
AHH or an atlantis, but those were out of the budget and i settled for a 
surly LHT. i wouldn't turn down a legolas, mostly due to the sweet seat 
tube decal. 

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[RBW] What epoch of Rivster are you?

[Christopher Cote]

I own a Heron and Rambouillet, so I suppose I straddle the Proto and Golden 
ages. However, I found out and fell in love with Rivendell during the Proto 
phase. I suppose I still view anything but the original Road, Long Low, All 
Rounder, Mountain (rare), and later customs as not "real" Rivendells. So I'm an 
imposter myself.

Not sure I want to split our tiny tribe any further,

Chris "imposter syndrome" Cote

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[RBW] Bearing suggestions?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

On my Quickbeam I’ve ridden my Paul high flange fixed hub for about 7 months of 
solid riding (10 months elapsed time, with 3 months not riding it as I played 
with the Hunqabeam exclusively this summer) and already the rear needs new 
bearings (not sure what the stock bearing are from Paul Comp). 

Suggestions for the best value/quality bearings accounting for heartiness? Not 
looking for lightest or fastest, but good, solid dependable bearings that will 
be a decent cost per mile of anticipated life.

15mm 15x28x7 bearing cartridge by Paul’s spec.
https://www.paulcomp.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/hf_rear.pdf

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[RBW] Re: FS (tentatively): 2speed 60cm Green Sparkle Cheviot complete

[Dave Grossman]

Whats new in the queue?

>
>

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Ed Carolipio]

I have the Revelate Feed Bag and the Banana Sack. The Feed Bag may be a bit 
smallish for most SLRs but I can see the Banana Sack working out well. (As 
a caveat, I haven't tried using either to carry an SLR.) 

--Ed C.


On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 9:13:54 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
> an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
>
> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
> only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
>
> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would 
> not regret the purchase, tho.
>
> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
> operation, which seems slick.
>
> Any opinions out there?
>

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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[John Bokman]

Proto-Rivster for sure. 
I was in the IBOB with the paper leaflets. Had a MB-3 (I think it was?) 
from 1986. It was a really cool grey-gren color with some red in there in 
places.
Then I had an MB-2, purple, that i got in 1990, if memory serves. That one 
had a really quick front end that I never quite got used to. But it sure 
was fun for the off-roading I was doing at the time. Sold that in 1994 to 
get the X0-3 (supposedly the last one in Northern California in 55.5cm). 
This was the last year of the Bridgestone X0-3s. I rode that bike all over 
the place, from Off-roading (I put on 26x1.95" tires), to an ocassional 
Off-Road race, to some short tours, to road rides, and commuting. It was my 
only bike, and a great one although always a scooch too small for true road 
riding.  At the time, it was novel to be able to switch from 1.25" slicks 
to fatter knobbies all on the same bike! And using Moustache bars, I could 
get comfortable in several positions to suit my riding terrain. I still 
have that bike, currently being rebuilt for my daughter.

So I knew about Grant from the BOB group (I think I was number 3706, or 
maybe 3607 - I used to have the card, but have since lost it). Therefore, 
When Riv started,I lusted after the All-Rounder. It just seemed the perfect 
bike for me. But it was way out of my budget. Then I lusted after the 
Atlantis. For years and years. But it too was way out of my budget. I 
always lusted after the Road Standards, and the Long Low.

Years and years later, I finally got my Riv: a 2009, first-gen Sam, so 
officially, Im in the 2xTT era, although my 60cm did not have the 2xTT 
(which for me is a good thing, as I'm not smitten with the 2xTT). I rode 
the bike sucessfuly and mostly enjoyably for 7 years, but always felt it 
was too large a frame.I knew the bones were right, but it just didn't fit 
as well as I knew it could. So I sold the frame and got a 58, and swapped 
the parts over, and I'm happy as a clam. The Sam has proven to be my 
All-Rounder. It just is so comfortable, rides so well, does everything I 
ask of it. I could not imagine ever needing "more bike" for the riding I 
do. I could ride heavily loaded for thousands of miles. In fact, I'd vote 
for Sam as being their "touring bike" rather than the "country bike". In my 
estimation, it's plenty stout. I regularly carry heavy loads and it just 
rides like nobody's business...it's just a super fun, do-most workhorse of 
a bike. 

Having said all that...I still lust after the older models. As much as i 
love my Sam, aesthetically I prefer the straight-across top tube.  I'd love 
to find a Ram, or a Road Standard. I no longer need the All-Rounder or 
Atlantis, because I've got my Sam. 

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 10:13:26 AM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> Aha! All those Roscos were pretty experimental, and cut across the strata 
> in interesting ways. 
> The *Arcana* or *Enigmatic* Rivs would also include Patrick Moore's 26" 
> wheeled road bikes, the Mystery Bike, and the custom fixed-gear mountain 
> bike that caused such a stir several years ago. 
>
> Philip 
> Santa Rosa, CA 
>
>
> On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:16:20 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>>
>> Can we throw an 'Experimental' or 'Avant Garde' Epoch for the odd ball 
>> Rosco's and any other one off frames they've done ;) I love my Rosco Road.
>>
>> I was turned on during the AHH/Sam/Atlantis/Hunq days so that is where my 
>> heart lies, even though I don't have any of those (anymore). So a 2TTer. 
>> But I've always leaned toward the Golden Age and keep my eye out for an 
>> orange Ram (especially after seeing Evan's).
>>
>

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[RBW] Fender size for Roadini?

[lambbo]

I've got some old VO fenders on my Roadini that constantly rub my 28s.  I 
don't know the size of the fenders, because they are from 8 years ago, so 
I'd love to know what people are running under normal clearance, non-Paul, 
brakes and which have a little space with 28s.  I know Grant designed it to 
have clearance so I think I've got a size too small.

Thanks!


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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Adam Leibow]

I have a (D)SLR-specific Roadrunner Bags stem-mount (basically just an 
extra big stem caddy/feed bag). I dont use it for a camera but it's a great 
bag and it's intended to fit an SLR w/ lens, so I think this would be a 
good option. you can pick the colors you want, and the pricing is good. 
https://roadrunnerbags.us/collections/handlebar-bags/products/point-n-shooter-l

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 9:13:54 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
> an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
>
> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
> only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
>
> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would 
> not regret the purchase, tho.
>
> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
> operation, which seems slick.
>
> Any opinions out there?
>

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[DarinM]

I haven't used a bag for this purpose, but saw recently that Rivelo and 
Randi Jo Fab just collaborated on a camera bag that looks like it's for 
stem mounting.

Darin

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 9:13:54 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
> an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
>
> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
> only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
>
> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would 
> not regret the purchase, tho.
>
> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
> operation, which seems slick.
>
> Any opinions out there?
>

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[RBW] Re: Ahearne+Map Comfort... Also, WTB

[blakcloud]

I currently have those bars on my Sam, and while I don't do 50 mile rides, 
I do 50 km rides (31.07 miles), if that helps at all. 

I went from Albatross to these bars and added the Ergon grips for comfort. 
I lowered my bars for that sportier position so that there is a little more 
weight on my hands because of this. For my long rides, I never walk away 
thinking my hands hurt or I need another hand position. One hand position 
is good enough for me. Of course that doesn't work for everyone but I like 
it. For me, long rides, short rides they work well for both those 
applications. I an glad I switched over. 

By used, try them and if you dislike them sell them here. They seem to go 
fast when they offered for sale. 

Good luck. 

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 11:19:42 AM UTC-4, cam starnes wrote:
>
> Who runs Ahearne+Map bars and do you dig them for rides of 50+ miles? I've 
> read plenty of people calling them comfy, but curious whether that's just 
> on shorter, townie rides or even for longer distances. They would appear to 
> offer at least two solid hand positions, or is it more than that? And if 
> anyone has some lying around, I might be interested in trying them on my 
> Sam. 
>

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[RBW] Ahearne+Map Comfort... Also, WTB

[Justin, Oakland]

On flat open roads I might get bored but on anything that has me standing up, 
grunting up a hill, navigating dirt or riding in traffic they are 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

I ride them mostly just on the grips. You can grab ahead of them on the curve 
and if you really want to be a weirdo get aero by the stem. Get the wide ones 
and put your controls close to the curve and you get another 1/2 a position 
sliding your hands up and down the grips.

-J

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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[Philip Williamson]

Aha! All those Roscos were pretty experimental, and cut across the strata 
in interesting ways. 
The *Arcana* or *Enigmatic* Rivs would also include Patrick Moore's 26" 
wheeled road bikes, the Mystery Bike, and the custom fixed-gear mountain 
bike that caused such a stir several years ago. 

Philip 
Santa Rosa, CA 


On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:16:20 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> Can we throw an 'Experimental' or 'Avant Garde' Epoch for the odd ball 
> Rosco's and any other one off frames they've done ;) I love my Rosco Road.
>
> I was turned on during the AHH/Sam/Atlantis/Hunq days so that is where my 
> heart lies, even though I don't have any of those (anymore). So a 2TTer. 
> But I've always leaned toward the Golden Age and keep my eye out for an 
> orange Ram (especially after seeing Evan's).
>

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Re: [RBW] What epoch of Rivster are you?

[David Hallerman]

Yes Bruce, the slightly sloping top tube and 20mm extended head 
tube...that was my Riv Road Standard.


The dropouts were flexible, though. That is, I don't like horizontal 
dropouts all that much, and that's how the Road Standards were being built.


But they weren't so standard that you couldn't ask for tweaks. My tweak 
was semi-vertical dropouts.


Dave, who notes that for a series of reasons that frame had to return 
twice to Waterford for some fixes before it became a great bike



On 9/27/18 7:57 PM, bruce.herbit...@gmail.com wrote:
Probably a good next thread, but does anyone know what the first Riv 
ever sold was? Is it Chris Kosterman's?


Dave: If your bike has a sloping TT and extended HT, it is a Road 
Standard. My early one has a level TT and normal HT and is, as shown 
in RR #2 from early 1995,  just called a Road. Mine has Suntour 
dropouts as well. They went to an Italian (?) supplier later. Btw, the 
new cost for my frameset was $895 plus $20 shipping.


Tailwinds,

Bruce

On Thursday, September 27, 2018, 5:13:31 PM CDT, David Hallerman 
 wrote:



Hey, well considering that I bought one of the first Rivendell road 
bikes, a silver-brazed majesty built by Waterford with Richard Sachs 
lugs, considering at that point the model was called the "Road 
Standard," if my memory serves.


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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Adam in Indiana]

I'm quite fond of Outer shell Adventures' Drawcord Handlebar Bag.  Not quite 
the same style you're asking about, but can still be opened and closed with one 
hand, and he also makes a separate padded liner if youre carrying a camera in 
it.



On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 12:13:54 PM UTC-4, Neil Doran wrote:
> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold an 
> SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
> 
> 
> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant only 
> for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
> 
> 
> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would not 
> regret the purchase, tho.
> 
> 
> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
> operation, which seems slick.
> 
> 
> Any opinions out there?

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[iamkeith]

At the end of this recent thread, i posted pics of my setup.  Nitto rack 
puchased from and still available at Riv, bag by ostrich.  Couldn't be happier.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/77bdoc1Yzt0

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hi Neil,

I assume you are concentrating specifically on quicker access bags located 
behind bars next to the stem, which I have admittedly not used and am only 
vaguely familiar with having briefly considered buying some for myself, 
but I'll interpret your "handlebar/stem bags" phrasing a little more 
broadly here to possibly include other varieties of handlebar bags? 

Although they may no longer be available from him directly (I think they 
all sold long ago?) I have enjoyed OYB Bags from Jeff Potter and sometimes 
use two simultaneously, one on the bars and one on the saddle.  It is/was 
his "7-way Nordic Messenger Bag" modified from military surplus and mounts 
the same way to both bar & saddle using leather toe straps with stick 
mount.  It is sizeable enough to hold a smallish load and not otherwise 
obstruct the bars too much.  It also has the added benefit of tucking 
nicely in the center of moustache and trekking style bars and with no 
buckles it instead uses riveted metal studs with leather reinforcement as 
buttons that could be easily undone one handed while riding.  I plan on 
keeping mine but just thought I'd throw it out there in case you came 
across any second hand as they're very versatile and with shoulder strap 
kept in place could be removed from bike easily and carried away when on 
the go or locking up the bike in public for any length of time.

Brian Cole
Lawrenceville, NJ

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 12:13:54 PM UTC-4, Neil Doran wrote:

> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
> an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
>
> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
> only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
>
> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would 
> not regret the purchase, tho.
>
> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
> operation, which seems slick.
>
> Any opinions out there?
>

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[Philip Williamson]

Good work snagging the grail Element! That's got everything. There's a 
poptop Element in my neighborhood. 
I was convinced I was going to get an Element, until I sat in the back 
seat. Oh. I got a Kia Soul, which I really dig. I can put most of my bikes 
in without taking the wheel off, but the mountain bike is too big/ungainly 
for that (XL Big Honzo). If I was 100% looking for a bike hauler that 
didn't need to fit teenagers, I would get the Element. I've seen big bikes 
go into the Fit, as well. My ex-neighbor's boyfriend had a giant Hun

Philip 
Santa Rosa, CA 

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 10:08:04 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>
> I have an Element and a Fit and yes the Fit can swallow an amazing amount, 
> a couple of LWB Rivs with the front wheels off and all of the luggage that 
> two people need for a short trip. The Fit gets 37+ mpg on the highway 
> (depending on speed)and the Element gets about 25 mpg. I paid $7,000 for 
> the 2006 Element EX-P last November, but it is sort of a Unicorn, having 
> the manual transmission, AWD, fully painted body, and rear sunroof. I plan 
> on putting the E-camper pop-top on it (kind of like a Westaflia VW camper 
> top - I have seen pictures where people put "Eastfalia" decals on them) 
> that will allow sleeping on the roof.
> Another option would be the Ford Transit Connect. I have rented them 
> several times when I was working in the Seattle area - got 28 - 30 mpg on 
> the highway. If they were available in AWD or 4WD, I would have bought one 
> instead of the Element. The long wheelbase version is available with a huge 
> stationary skylight. The E-camper pop-top is available for them as well.
>
> Laing
> Cocoa, FL
>
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 12:40:05 PM UTC-4, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
> wrote:
>
>> Just be aware that the Element has developed somewhat of a cult status, 
>> with used prices stubbornly maintaining at unusually high levels. 
>> Nevertheless, it's one of few vehicles whose interior is somewhat 
>> water-resistant (bucket and sponge), thus making transporting bikes after 
>> (wet) mixed-terrain rides less of a hassle.
>>
>> A friend has a Honda Fit. This is essentially a mini-mini van with fold 
>> down rear seats, and he had been able to fit all but the longest bikes into 
>> the car without removing the wheels. Given that we are on the Riv forum, 
>> I'm sorry to report that the newer Rivs with their long chainstays are the 
>> bikes that cannot fit into the Fit without removing the front wheel.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 4:20:34 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>>>
>>> I bought my Honda Element for precisely this reason. Bikes roll into the 
>>> back with the wheels on. No disassembly at all. Carries a bunch of stuff, 
>>> durable and very dependable.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, Honda stopped making them a few years ago. But … they 
>>> made a lot of them, so you should be able to find one used. They all look 
>>> pretty much the same; the later models had some minor exterior changes that 
>>> included a switch to having the entire vehicle painted in the same color. 
>>>
>>> I’m planning to hold onto mine until gas goes out of style.
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyo...@me.com
>>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Ryan M.]

I throw a Pentax MX with a 50mm f1.4 lens into my Sackville banana sack 
that is mounted on the choco moose handlebars on my Appaloosa and it seems 
to work well. I have a tube stuffed in the bottom of that bag for 
emergencies and it does a pretty good job of padding the camera.

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 11:13:54 AM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
> an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.
>
> I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
> only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.
>
> Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would 
> not regret the purchase, tho.
>
> Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
> operation, which seems slick.
>
> Any opinions out there?
>

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[RBW] handlebar/stem bags - what do people like?

[Neil Doran]

What do folks like for handlebar/stem bags, especially ones that can hold 
an SLR with short lens? I missed the boat on the Riv product a while back.

I have a Carsick Designs stem bag that I love, but it is first gen meant 
only for a bike water bottle. Need bigger.

Randi Jo looks great, just not sure it is wide enough. I'm sure I would not 
regret the purchase, tho.

Revelate seems to be a standard-bearer, and apparently has one-handed 
operation, which seems slick.

Any opinions out there?

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[iamkeith]

Oops.  We had an A6 not an R6, obviosly.  I forgot about the Flex, but that's a 
great idea.  They seem to elicit love/ hate emotions though. When my wife 
replace the Audi, i begged her to look at one and she flat-out refused and 
chose a Sienna instead.  Go figure.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Honjo H50 650b fenderset and hardware - $65

[Lum Gim Fong]

Sold

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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Oh man. Philip, thank you for starting this thread. Made me smile 
throughout. Thank you.

Converging threads of history. Finding the treasure trove of info compiled 
by Sheldon Brown, as well as his copious continual sharing on 
REC:Bicycle:Tech and other usenet forums (kids, ask your parents or nerdy 
uncles).  At the same time, getting to work in the bicycle industry and 
having my mechanic sensei/boss hand me the first few RR's and say, "...you 
need to see what Grant is doing..." and then seeing a sage green Rivendell 
Road at one of the trade shows (not in an RBW booth - maybe Joe Bell's?) 
Can't quite recall anything other than the cacophony of the show dropping 
away and the bike just seeming to glow and hum. Gorgeous in it's simplicity 
against the backdrop of toothpaste-welds and gigantic downtubes. 

>From then, reading, learning, reading, meeting, visiting. Watching designs 
transitional, nascent and fully formed. Continuing to have confidence that 
nothing lands on a model without a lot of thought and hours spent testing. 
Most things of value look weird the first time you see them. And Seth G. 
said just last week about how if 2/3rds of your audience doesn't quite get 
it, then that's likely the right place to be working.

Rivendell has never sat comfortably inside the middle of any bell curve. 
And we're all the better for it. 

Thanks Grant!

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[Dave Grossman]

> I have a Prius with a hitch and a Thule T2 Pro.  I just throw the bikes on 
> the back and it has a built in lock.  
>

We also have an Odyssey which is a great bike mover but not when it is 
filled with car seats.  I can wedge one bike in there with all the seats up 
which I do on occasion if I want to keep it safe and locked.  

I would have an adventure wagon if I didn't have the need for car seats or 
if the Prius wasn't long paid off.  I agree with a lot of you that the 
Element was great.  Perhaps the small Transit connect, small Ram Pro 
Master, etc is the heir apparent.  But it is still a cargo van, not that 
the Element was likely a fun ride.  I am a big fan of the Metris and 
actually considered one instead of the Odyssey.  It was a bit to spartan in 
the end and didn't have the seat versatility for car seats that the Odyssey 
does.

One other issue with hitch racks is the lack of fender compatibility.  I 
bought the Thule but in the end maybe should of gotten a 1up so I could use 
fenders more easily.  Not that you can't mod the Thule to fit most 
bikes. 

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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[Doug Bloch]

The Vittoria Corsa G+ is my next 28c purchase. Every review I’ve read and heard 
from others is that they are almost indistinguishable from Compass tires in 
ride quality. Of course they are much cheaper. I was told that you really start 
to notice the difference with Compass at 32 and above.

Doug Bloch
Alameda CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[Eric Floden]

one more data point: we have been living in 2 locations for a couple of
years now, and have a Forester in one: it's great. But read on.

We have rented vehicles  often in Ottawa, and got a real pleasant surprise
with the Ford Flex we had for 3 weeks. It was wonderful. I was not
predisposed to like any Fords (or dislike them either) but it was terrific.
Driver and passengers loved it. It had a ton of room inside, more than
expected when you look at the outside. The one time I had to move 2 bikes,
it did so easily.

Consumer Reports seems to like them well enough too

Not planning to buy one, but I remain impressed

EricF
back home in BC

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[RBW] Re: Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[Luke]

Conti Sport Contacts - affordable and check most of those boxes

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 9:33:23 AM UTC-4, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Needs to be a slick.
> For on street road riding.
> Good cornering (no dive)
> Good in the rain.
> Supple.
> Fast.

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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[cam starnes]

Like many, I would imagine, I first learned of Rivendell via the musings of 
the inimitable Sheldon Brown. I was in to fixed gear bikes at the time, on 
which subject Sheldon was of course a non-hipster (or maybe an O.G. 
Hipster?) fount of knowledge and expertise. RIP. I went from fixed to road 
to road with fenders and racks (Soma Stanyan - lugged head tube!) to an 80s 
Trek 720 to a pretty Riv-ified VO Campeur to a Clem Smith, Jr. and now a 
canti Sam Hillborne. Have always admired the old Atlantis above all. So, 
Clemster-cum-2TTer-wannabe-Golden-Ager?

On Wednesday, 26 September 2018 19:55:34 UTC-4, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> Recent discussions make me wonder, what epoch of Rivendell bikes or 
> aesthetic most appeals to list members? 
>
> Which era do you identify with the most, or like the best? 
> Is it the era you first encountered Riv in, or did you look back through 
> the back catalog and say, "That's the one for me?" Or did you arrive early, 
> travel into the future with Rivendell and love best what's happening now? 
>
>- Are you a "*Proto-Riv*" aficionado of Longlows, Allrounders, and 
>Herons? 
>- A "*Golden Ager*?" Are Herons, Rambouillets, and Salukis your 
>favorites? 
>- Or are you a "*2TTer,*" a Bombadil, Hunq, and Sam Hillborner?
>- A "*Clemster*" and a Rosco? 
>- Have you become a "*New Atlantean*?" A Swoop-a-tuber, Hill-biker, 
>and a Gus Bootster? 
>
> Are these fixed preferences, or have you been most into a different era 
> before? Do you have shadings of more than one?  I first encountered Riv in 
> the Proto era, looking at the All Rounder. Overall I'm a Golden Ager, but 
> the New Atlantean age is looking pretty attractive. 
>
> Philip 
> Santa Rosa, CA 
>

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[RBW] Recommend 700 x 28c tire, please.

[MCT]

Gravel king is best value.  For more money the compass.  Schwalbe makes the 
Durano that is a straight road tire.  

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[RBW] Re: Roadini - How do you like yours?

[JC]

Thanks for the comments, it is definitely a fun bike.  The saddle height is 
just a smidge under 79cm.

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[RBW] Re: MUSA Sam H.

['araeuber' via RBW Owners Bunch]

That'd make sense. Mine is an early 56cm green with canti brakes (single 
top tube). Frame serial number seems to be consistent with MIT ones and no 
signs of waterford dropouts. Just curious, how can you tell it's MUSA? 
number I guess?

Thanks
Alberto

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:39:13 AM UTC-7, Reid Echols wrote:
>
>
> I believe it started as just the larger, double top tube versions (for 
> some reason those weren't possible with the Taiwanese builder at the time). 
> I have a 64cm Waterford canti Sam from the era, which I may be gearing up 
> to sell one of these days. It's a lovely ride with beautiful details, just 
> a bit long in the TT for me to run it as a drop bar bike. 
>
>

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[RBW] Ahearne+Map Comfort... Also, WTB

[cam starnes]

Who runs Ahearne+Map bars and do you dig them for rides of 50+ miles? I've 
read plenty of people calling them comfy, but curious whether that's just 
on shorter, townie rides or even for longer distances. They would appear to 
offer at least two solid hand positions, or is it more than that? And if 
anyone has some lying around, I might be interested in trying them on my 
Sam. 

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[RBW] Re: MUSA Sam H.

['araeuber' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Good idea, didn't think about that before. According to RR# 41, it seems 
that MIT Sam H. was first introduced in sizes 48, 52, 56, and 60 on that 
"Pearly olive with goldish highlights". I couldn't find anything on MUSA 
ones though.

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 3:47:05 PM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Check out the Rivendell Readers, which can be found here:
>
> http://notfine.com/rivreader/
>
> I am sure there will be an issue with an announcement when the MUSA frames 
> first came out and have some of that info. Maybe one of the ones around 
> 2006?
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 6:24:07 PM UTC-4, araeuber wrote:
>>
>> It seems like some early Sams were made in the USA by Waterford. Can't 
>> find much information about it though. Does any one know which year/sizes 
>> were MUSA? Do those frames follow the typical Waterford numbering? 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I strongly considered a Dodge Magnum vs Subaru Outback vs VW Jetta 
Sportwagen back in 2009 when I was on the market for a new vehicle.  
Hatchback, roof rails, and AWD all strongly preferred (especially AWD with 
our NJ winters and an unforgiving work schedule/commute.)  The Magnum had 
just been discontinued the year or two prior, I think, and it seemed slim 
pickin's for R/T AWD models at the time.  A discount program through my 
employer with Subaru (no longer offered, unfortunately) pretty much made it 
a no-brainer and I got a much better deal through Subaru than either of the 
others anyway but I still couldn't afford the XT model I desired and ended 
up with the base model Outback.  It has served me well but not really all 
that peppy (compared with two older V6 vehicles that preceded it.)  It's 
now in need of much TLC and I've reached a crossroads... invest $$$ in 
maintenance/repairs (I'm at minimum due for another 30k service plus timing 
belt, brakes, and engine leaks like a sieve and consumes fluids and 
probably really needs a rebuild) and try to keep it on the road and make a 
push for 300k? Or cut my losses and pick up a new "family vehicle" and turn 
my wife's younger Hyundai sedan into the new commuter?  Some restructuring 
within my company is reducing my commute and allowing more remote working 
from home which certainly helps but unfortunately not enough to cut back to 
a one car household.

But thanks to all who've contributed to this thread because with the 
potential for re-entering the auto market again soon it's helpful to see 
what others are driving and also incorporating into their cycling life.  
I'm really not looking forward to the possibility of car payments 
again with already tight finances.  Ideally I'd love to commute by bike and 
have just one household vehicle but this remains out of reach for now.  We 
continue to rent as well with relocation always a possibility and still 
trying to come up with a plan for a work/family balance.

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 10:18:41 AM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:

> Steve, we had an Audi R6 wagon for a while.  It was an amazingly fun car 
> to dive, but I could barely fit a bike in -even with the wheels off, and 
> doing so inevitably marred up the fabric surfaces.  The american wagons 
> (well, the dodge anyway - not sure about about the cadillac), which sadly 
> haven't been made for a few years now,  still seemed to be a bit 
> utiliatarian.  Boxier and more rugged.  That's all I was referring to.  
>

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[iamkeith]

Steve, we had an Audi R6 wagon for a while.  It was an amazingly fun car to 
dive, but I could barely fit a bike in -even with the wheels off, and doing so 
inevitably marred up the fabric surfaces.  The american wagons (well, the dodge 
anyway - not sure about about the cadillac), which sadly haven't been made for 
a few years now,  still seemed to be a bit utiliatarian.  Boxier and more 
rugged.  That's all I was referring to.  

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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[Tully Lanter]

Great thread! 

For sporty riding, the Quickbeam makes me a Golden Ager by default.

For utilitarian riding, rougher trails, and/or just cruising, I'd almost be 
certainly be a Clemster. In the spirit of scientific rigor, I should get 
one just to confirm...


On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-7, Philip Williamson 
wrote:
>
> Recent discussions make me wonder, what epoch of Rivendell bikes or 
> aesthetic most appeals to list members? 
>
> Which era do you identify with the most, or like the best? 
> Is it the era you first encountered Riv in, or did you look back through 
> the back catalog and say, "That's the one for me?" Or did you arrive early, 
> travel into the future with Rivendell and love best what's happening now? 
>
>- Are you a "*Proto-Riv*" aficionado of Longlows, Allrounders, and 
>Herons? 
>- A "*Golden Ager*?" Are Herons, Rambouillets, and Salukis your 
>favorites? 
>- Or are you a "*2TTer,*" a Bombadil, Hunq, and Sam Hillborner?
>- A "*Clemster*" and a Rosco? 
>- Have you become a "*New Atlantean*?" A Swoop-a-tuber, Hill-biker, 
>and a Gus Bootster? 
>
> Are these fixed preferences, or have you been most into a different era 
> before? Do you have shadings of more than one?  I first encountered Riv in 
> the Proto era, looking at the All Rounder. Overall I'm a Golden Ager, but 
> the New Atlantean age is looking pretty attractive. 
>
> Philip 
> Santa Rosa, CA 
>

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[R. Alexis]

The Honda Element seems to be a big go to for shop owners. A shop owner 
friend has one. She had a company owned one at the prior shop she managed 
and fell in love with it. Her prior car was a Subaru Outback. Another shop 
owner friend has one also.

Twelve years ago when I was forced to look for a new vehicle the Honda 
Element was one that was on the list. I backed off it because the fuel 
economy was as good as I was wanting. It only seated 4 passengers instead 
of 5. There were some occasions with my prior car a 1989 BMW 325i sedan 
that I seated 5. Another issue was reports that the high profile made 
driving in cross winds difficult. This brought on flashbacks of driving a 
1976 GMC conversion van down the interstate. Not fun. I ended up getting a 
2003 Volkswagen Jetta. It can fit my Rivendell Mountain with both wheels 
off and both of the rear folding seats at least unlatched. Even my Karate 
Monkey fits with both wheels off. I have fit four bikes in it with no other 
passengers, but that was done carefully with the pedals an wheels removed. 
I kept thinking about getting new Q Clips for my Yakima rack to mount it on 
the Jetta, but the folding rear seats made that less pressing and I thought 
having one on the car would affect the fuel economy and I was not crazy 
about subjecting my bike to bug splatter on a roof rack. 

I am currently looking at VW Golf 4 door. Test drove a TDI last week and 
looked at a gas version, both 2015. Subaru Forester was another I looked 
recently. 

I feel I would have been happy with the Element had I gotten one because of 
the great features and the ability to take the bike in the vehicle. I have 
moved away some from the thoughts of using a roof rack to carrying it in 
the vehicle or a hitch mount rear rack of some type. The Toyota 
Matrix/Pontiac Vibe also seems like an excellent vehicle. 

Reginald Alexis


On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 11:40:05 AM UTC-5, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
> Just be aware that the Element has developed somewhat of a cult status, 
> with used prices stubbornly maintaining at unusually high levels. 
> Nevertheless, it's one of few vehicles whose interior is somewhat 
> water-resistant (bucket and sponge), thus making transporting bikes after 
> (wet) mixed-terrain rides less of a hassle.
>
> A friend has a Honda Fit. This is essentially a mini-mini van with fold 
> down rear seats, and he had been able to fit all but the longest bikes into 
> the car without removing the wheels. Given that we are on the Riv forum, 
> I'm sorry to report that the newer Rivs with their long chainstays are the 
> bikes that cannot fit into the Fit without removing the front wheel.
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 4:20:34 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> I bought my Honda Element for precisely this reason. Bikes roll into the 
>> back with the wheels on. No disassembly at all. Carries a bunch of stuff, 
>> durable and very dependable.
>>
>> Unfortunately, Honda stopped making them a few years ago. But … they made 
>> a lot of them, so you should be able to find one used. They all look pretty 
>> much the same; the later models had some minor exterior changes that 
>> included a switch to having the entire vehicle painted in the same color. 
>>
>> I’m planning to hold onto mine until gas goes out of style.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/28/2018 05:55 AM, iamkeith wrote:


Thinking outside the box here, with the "fun" driving criteria in mind:

If I didn't like SUVs or Vans and if the precious, small-ish cargo areas of 
German sport wagons ruled those out, I myself would honestly look for a good, 
used SRT8 Dodge Magnum.  Or, if I needed AWD, there was an R/T version that 
would be almost as fun. Bike would have to be set on its  side, but I think 
it's long and voluminous enough to accomodate most without even taking the 
wheel off.  It's also low enough to use a roof rack without the normal, awkward 
reach issues if you decided to take it on a longer trip.


The cargo area of the VW Golf Alltrack (and the Jetta Sportwagen that I 
owned before Dieselgate and the buyback) is large enough to fit a 60 cm 
randonneur equipped with full metal fenders, both wheels on.  Unlike 
some cargo spaces (notably thinking now about the Acura wagon) the rear 
wheel wells don't intrude into the cargo space, so loading is easy.  And 
it's a lot of fun to drive, and not all that expensive - certainly not 
what I'd call "precious".


I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "precious, small-ish" but I assume 
you mean costly -- certainly true of the Mercedes E-class wagon, which 
has  a huge cargo area, and the current BMW 3-series (the cargo area of 
which is large enough to fit a 60 cm randonneur equipped with full metal 
fenders both wheels on).  The Audi Allroad's caro area isn't large 
enough to hold a 60 cm randonneur w/full metal fenders.


I haven't seen the new Volvo V60, but the old one definitely wasn't 
large enough; the V90 certainly is large enough, but odds of any of us 
actually seeing one in real life are quite small and both Volvo wagons 
are certainly costly.  Of course, they're not German.


Nobody's mentioned the Prius V so far; its cargo space is definitely 
large enough for the bike I described, but the way you make a Prius 
involves extracting everything that makes a car fun to drive (and what's 
left behind is a Prius) but it sure does have good fuel economy.


I've recently had both a Rav-4 and a Chevrolet Equinox as loaners while 
my VW was being serviced, and both have ample room for a bicycle - 
slightly larger than in the VW, not necessarily a great thing as the 
bike can slide around inside when you brake or accelerate (the fit in 
the VW is much more snug, although large enough).  Neither is much fun 
to drive, though, and the Rav-4 had surprisingly poor fuel economy (I 
only got 150 miles on half a tank of gas).


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] What epoch of Rivster are you?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I've been a Bridgestone/Grant/Riv/ admirer since back in the day, but I am most 
enamored of the late eras, and the Clementine. This is mainly because I always 
felt I could get to 90-95 percent of the ride quality of a Rivendell by 
refurbishing older vintage bicycles.

But the Clementine, with its super long wheelbase, step through design and 
sporty yet sturdy construction and upright riding position put it in a category 
of its own. 

What I like best about it is that it can be ridden and appreciated by just 
about anyone from bicycle aficionados to complete novices. Designing something 
to be an heirloom that is useful and comfortable is nowadays a revolutionary 
act.

Another aspect of the Clems is the price point; these are the first Rivendells 
that could also potentially compete with older vintage rebuilds on price, as 
well as lower priced knock-offs.

So the Clems combine a culmination of the designer's evolving approach to 
bicycles to create a machine that many more would enjoy riding with a cost that 
allows many more to afford one--about as egalitarian as one could hope to get 
in today's bicycle industry.

I see the Clementine as Riv's proto bike of our times and everything from here 
on out will be (wonderful) variations on a theme.

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[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Sam Hillborne, dark orange

['kobe' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Good point Paul, it is a little uncomfortable to look at. 

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[iamkeith]

Or Cadillac CTS-V.  Damn, what a car.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Film photography - subject matter?

[ascpgh]

I took this picture of everyone in the shuttle going back to Cumberland 
form Ohiopyle when the weather forced the decision to cut things short.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/axcy5JJG9AbY7gqp8

My plan was that my wife was going to pick me up at the planned end of the 
ride in Connellsville and was already on the way there, into the cone of 
cell phone silence. I had no choice but to meet her there as the businesses 
in Ohiopyle were closing for the night and I rode those 20 miles in that 
snow. 

It was a fantastic event. Many thanks again to Bobby B. for his 
coordination work.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 5:08:02 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> We had a lot of fun on that trip.  And it ended in an utterly incredible 
> way.  When we got to Ohiopyle the weather forecast took an ominous turn, 
> and we decided to cancel our original plan of riding further towards 
> Pittsburg.  We instead loaded our bikes onto the shuttle and had them drive 
> us to Falling Water.  You can see in the photos, it looked pretty gloomy 
> and overcast when we were there.  As we boarded the shuttle to head back to 
> Cumberland it started raining.  And continued for the rest of the day, and 
> all the way home.  Two (I think it was two) of our group elected to camp on 
> the GAP rather than drive back to the cars.  When they awoke the next 
> morning they were under a couple of inches of snow.
>
> I've been on the GAP on two other occasions.  All were a lot of fun, but 
> none of the others was anything at all like the Riv Rally group.  What a 
> great bunch!
>
> On 09/27/2018 04:57 PM, RichS wrote:
>
> Steve, 
>
> Thanks for posting the flickr link. I remember when you all did this get 
> together. Looked like a fantastic time with so many Riv folk in attendance. 
> So many Rivendells and your Kogswell lined up in a row is an impressive 
> sight!
>
> Regards,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 9:15:19 AM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar 
> wrote: 
>>
>> I don't think I've ever seen that one before.   More photos in the 
>> Flickr group pool: https://www.flickr.com/groups/1923867@N25/pool/ 
>>
>>
>> On 09/27/2018 06:43 AM, ascpgh wrote: 
>> > Sometimes the set up counts as much as what's captured. A shot from 
>> > Riv Rally East 2012, at the falls of the Youghiogheny, Ohiopyle, PA. 
>> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZHh6hGfxp1rvbJfDA 
>>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[iamkeith]

Thinking outside the box here, with the "fun" driving criteria in mind:

If I didn't like SUVs or Vans and if the precious, small-ish cargo areas of 
German sport wagons ruled those out, I myself would honestly look for a good, 
used SRT8 Dodge Magnum.  Or, if I needed AWD, there was an R/T version that 
would be almost as fun. Bike would have to be set on its  side, but I think 
it's long and voluminous enough to accomodate most without even taking the 
wheel off.  It's also low enough to use a roof rack without the normal, awkward 
reach issues if you decided to take it on a longer trip.

Maybe it's the nostalgia of my age group, but I've NEVER understood why good 
ol' station wagons (or truck-type cars like the El Camino and Ranchero) fell 
out of favor.  They were superior in so many ways.

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