Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[brendonoid]

In regards to the VO hub; I just relaced one I have been using on my 
commuter to it's 3rd rim. Had it since 2013? It is still going fine 
although I changed, weirdly, the bearings on the freehub a few years back 
because they had gone a bit crunchy, presumably from me being overly 
zealous with chain lube at some point washing dirt into them. The main hub 
bearings are still the originals and very smooth.

Caveats: Other than when I have serious accidents I seem to be super gentle 
on my gear and a bit obsessive about maintenance. I am over 6 foot and only 
80kgs and have hyperactive mechanical sympathy. Oher peoples mileage may 
literally vary. I also enjoy the silver look though its practicality in the 
long term has in recent years made it somewhat less desirable. Also *hate* 
setting up brakes on a polished rim.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Ben,

I did. Thanks you.

Hugh

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 6:48 PM Ben Miller  wrote:

> Hugh,
>
> Sounds like you may have already found it, based upon your previous
> comment. But he is a link to the online article
> https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/
>
> Ben
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:11:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Weston,
>>
>> I haven't made it through Jan's entire argument yet still waiting for him
>> to talk tire pressure. So far he's said that the air not the tire side wall
>> hold bike and rider. To your point, that seems like a reasonable
>> expectation, low pressure vs medium to high pressures. To be honest I'm
>> just not sure,  I do recall on my Bantam running DT SWISS XR 551's i-40,
>> 44mm external wrapped with 3.0 schwabe Rocket Ron's with a pressure in the
>> neighborhood of 12- 15 psi the sidewall felt squishy and unsettling and led
>> me to run pressures between 18 and 20 PSI. I think my experience runs a
>> little contrary to yours in that one instance. I do think that there are so
>> many tire and rim combinations that it's hard to really pin it down as to
>> what's the ideal pressure. I think the ideal pressure is whatever the rider
>> decides based on their comfort and safety level. Obviously based on what
>> tire and rim combination they're running.
>>
>> I need to finish reading Jan's article. I'll report back.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:48 PM Weston Hein  wrote:
>>
>>> Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire
>>> pressure is the most important variable.
>>>
>>> I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a
>>> spin and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the
>>> rim the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run
>>> the 55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed
>>> with the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the
>>> AccuGauge. The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any
>>> instability.
>>>
>>> When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no
>>> difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument
>>> comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher
>>> pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you
>>> run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on
>>> the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.
>>>
>>> Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
>>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Bruce,

 I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?

 I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think
 I'd like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure
 which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas.

 Thanks,

 Hugh


 On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter 
 wrote:

> Hello Hugh:
>
> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow
> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to
> consider with 55 tires.
>
> Bruce
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Bruce,
>
> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm
> tire well?
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub
>> for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if 
>> you
>> can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I
>> built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More 
>> recently
>> I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious
>>> to read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone
>>> else's belief which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences
>>> with larger tires and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire 
>>> roll
>>> or collapse on cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire
>>> pressure. I've had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on 
>>> a
>>> DT Swiss 40mm rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires
>>> from 38 to 42mm. As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion 
>>> was

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Ben Miller]

Hugh, 

Sounds like you may have already found it, based upon your previous 
comment. But he is a link to the online 
article https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/

Ben

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:11:07 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Weston,
>
> I haven't made it through Jan's entire argument yet still waiting for him 
> to talk tire pressure. So far he's said that the air not the tire side wall 
> hold bike and rider. To your point, that seems like a reasonable 
> expectation, low pressure vs medium to high pressures. To be honest I'm 
> just not sure,  I do recall on my Bantam running DT SWISS XR 551's i-40, 
> 44mm external wrapped with 3.0 schwabe Rocket Ron's with a pressure in the 
> neighborhood of 12- 15 psi the sidewall felt squishy and unsettling and led 
> me to run pressures between 18 and 20 PSI. I think my experience runs a 
> little contrary to yours in that one instance. I do think that there are so 
> many tire and rim combinations that it's hard to really pin it down as to 
> what's the ideal pressure. I think the ideal pressure is whatever the rider 
> decides based on their comfort and safety level. Obviously based on what 
> tire and rim combination they're running.
>
> I need to finish reading Jan's article. I'll report back.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:48 PM Weston Hein  wrote:
>
>> Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire 
>> pressure is the most important variable. 
>>
>> I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a 
>> spin and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the 
>> rim the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run 
>> the 55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed 
>> with the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the 
>> AccuGauge. The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any 
>> instability. 
>>
>> When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no 
>> difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument 
>> comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher 
>> pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you 
>> run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on 
>> the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.
>>
>> Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>> I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?
>>>
>>> I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think 
>>> I'd like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure 
>>> which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas. 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Hugh:

 The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow 
 compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to 
 consider with 55 tires.

 Bruce

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:

 
 Hi Bruce,

 And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm 
 tire well? 

 Hugh


 On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:

> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub 
> for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if 
> you 
> can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I 
> built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More 
> recently 
> I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>
>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious 
>> to read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone 
>> else's belief which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences 
>> with larger tires and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire 
>> roll 
>> or collapse on cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire 
>> pressure. I've had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on 
>> a 
>> DT Swiss 40mm rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires 
>> from 38 to 42mm. As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion 
>> was 
>> simply the j hook that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's 
>> but 
>> good god $165 per rim. I actually like the look of the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Weston,

I haven't made it through Jan's entire argument yet still waiting for him
to talk tire pressure. So far he's said that the air not the tire side wall
hold bike and rider. To your point, that seems like a reasonable
expectation, low pressure vs medium to high pressures. To be honest I'm
just not sure,  I do recall on my Bantam running DT SWISS XR 551's i-40,
44mm external wrapped with 3.0 schwabe Rocket Ron's with a pressure in the
neighborhood of 12- 15 psi the sidewall felt squishy and unsettling and led
me to run pressures between 18 and 20 PSI. I think my experience runs a
little contrary to yours in that one instance. I do think that there are so
many tire and rim combinations that it's hard to really pin it down as to
what's the ideal pressure. I think the ideal pressure is whatever the rider
decides based on their comfort and safety level. Obviously based on what
tire and rim combination they're running.

I need to finish reading Jan's article. I'll report back.

Hugh


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:48 PM Weston Hein  wrote:

> Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire
> pressure is the most important variable.
>
> I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a spin
> and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the rim
> the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run the
> 55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed with
> the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the AccuGauge.
> The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any instability.
>
> When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no
> difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument
> comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher
> pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you
> run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on
> the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.
>
> Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Bruce,
>>
>> I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?
>>
>> I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think
>> I'd like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure
>> which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Hugh:
>>>
>>> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow
>>> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to
>>> consider with 55 tires.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>
>>> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire
>>> well?
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>>>
 Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub
 for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you
 can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I
 built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently
 I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
 tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
 and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.

 On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Ben,
>
> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>
> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious
> to read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone
> else's belief which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences
> with larger tires and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll
> or collapse on cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire
> pressure. I've had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a
> DT Swiss 40mm rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires
> from 38 to 42mm. As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was
> simply the j hook that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but
> good god $165 per rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim.
> Although I can't recall where I heard this but they were difficult to set
> up tubeless? I may be wrong on this matter. If you have first had
> experience with the Pacenti I'm happy to listen/hear.
>
> Best,
>
> ~Hugh
>
> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Hugh,

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Weston Hein]

Just my experience on the whole rim width debate as a 185lb rider- tire 
pressure is the most important variable. 

I run my tires much lower than most (felt by taking their bikes for a spin 
and all the comments that I "have a flat tire") and the narrower the rim 
the easier the tire collapses during low pressure cornering. I've run the 
55cm Antelope Hills on i18mm rims, same as an A23, and they squirmed with 
the tire pressures I like to run. Around 15psi tubeless says the AccuGauge. 
The Cliffhangers tolerate the lower pressures without any instability. 

When I pumped either wheelset up to higher pressures there was no 
difference felt between the two, and I think that's where the argument 
comes in that wide rims aren't necessary. If you tend to run higher 
pressure and like your tires firm than it may never be an issue. But if you 
run your tires low to the point where you can see your rear deforming on 
the ground as your ride, it may be worth considering.

Just my 2c, ymmv as always!
On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:36:50 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?
>
> I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think I'd 
> like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure 
> which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter  wrote:
>
>> Hello Hugh:
>>
>> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow 
>> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to 
>> consider with 55 tires.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire 
>> well? 
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>>
>>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub 
>>> for $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you 
>>> can live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I 
>>> built a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently 
>>> I bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
>>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
>>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Ben,

 You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.

 Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
 read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
 which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger 
 tires 
 and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
 cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
 had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
 rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 
 42mm. 
 As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j 
 hook 
 that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
 rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
 where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
 wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti 
 I'm 
 happy to listen/hear.

 Best, 

 ~Hugh

 “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
 moving.” ― Albert Einstein






 On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:

> Hi Hugh,
>
> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah 
> as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
>
> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer 
> a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of 
> Bicycle 
> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>
> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of 
> the best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. 
> I'm sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of 
> luck.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>
>> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 

[RBW] Re: FS: Handlebars, cockpits, stems, tires, etc.

[Andrew Turner]

Rene Herse tires, Bosco bars, Jack Brown tires, and HiRiser stem are still 
available!
On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 10:11:19 AM UTC-6 Andrew Turner wrote:

> Salsa Cowbell handlebars and Cinellie CMX saddle have been sold! I'll keep 
> the photo album updated with what's left for sale :) 
>
> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 4:51:38 PM UTC-6 Andrew Turner wrote:
>
>> Time to purge! 
>> Here's  the photo album of 
>> all the stuff listed below. Prices include shipping CONUS
>>
>>1. *Salsa Cowbell handlebars 42cm: *Ridden once, just didn't like the 
>>shape but I know a lot of people do! $40 
>>
>>2. *Rivendell cockpit: *Set includes Nitto Noodle handlebars (44cm), 
>>Nitto tallux stem (26.0, 90mm), and vintage Shimano 105 brake levers 
>> still 
>>in great shape. $95
>>
>>3. *Rene Herse Naches Pass Extralight tires: *These have a grand 
>>total of 5 miles on them. I'm switching to Rat Trap Pass tires since I've 
>>got the clearance to do so. $100
>>
>>4. *Jack Brown 33.333 Tires Green Label: *These probably have around 
>>250-300 miles, but all the tread is still there so plenty of life left. 
>> No 
>>flats or damage, just a little dirty. $70
>>
>>5. *Nitto Bosco CROMO 52CM X 25.4 (B353 CRMO): *Great shape, they've 
>>got some gooey stuff left on the ends but otherwise have seen very very 
>>little use. $50
>>
>>6. *New Cinelli CMX Unicanitor saddle: *I accidentally ordered 
>>two...Cool saddle, surprisingly comfortable and it's all plastic so 
>> perfect 
>>for a commuter. $30 
>>
>>7. *Nitto HiRiser, Threadless stem, 25.4 (CR61) 85mm: *I took a torch 
>>to it to give it a pretty neat bluing look. Lot's of subtle hues in there 
>>but mostly a gunmetal grey. $60
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: For sale: Nitto racks, Nitto and Clockwork Stems, Silver Shifters

[John M]

Shifters are sold (thanks James!).

Only the stems remain:

*Clockwork custom quill stem.  *31.8 clamp diameter, removable faceplate, 
80mm extension and some upward angle (20 degrees?).  Bought from a list 
member who had it built for his Hunqapillar and Jones Bar combination.  
Think of it as a chromed (and cheaper!) version of Riv’s new “Faceplater” 
stems.  Good condition.  Some  scratches and signs of wear on the chrome 
and small amount of rusting in the clamp area.  $65 shipped.

*Nitto Pearl quill stem.*  Fair condition—some scratches and dings from 
use.   100mm extension and 25.4 clamp diameter.  This seems like an older 
version with lovely knurling on the two bolts and a disc “plug” instead of 
the typical wedge to expand the stem in the steering tube.  $40 + shipping.


On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:10:25 PM UTC-7 John M wrote:

>
> Quick update.  Both racks are now sold (thanks Jared and Dave!).  Items 
> remaining:
>
> Photos here:  PHOTOS! 
> 
>
>  *Silver Shifters v1*.  Excellent condition.  Used on the Hunq for about 
> year before switching over to bar-ends.  $40 shipped.
>
> *Clockwork custom quill stem.  *31.8 clamp diameter, removable faceplate, 
> 80mm extension and some upward angle (20 degrees?).  Bought from a list 
> member who had it built for his Hunqapillar and Jones Bar combination.  
> Think of it as a chromed (and cheaper!) version of Riv’s new “Faceplater” 
> stems.  Good condition.  Some  scratches and signs of wear on the chrome 
> and small amount of rusting in the clamp area.  $65 shipped.
>
> *Nitto Pearl quill stem.*  Fair condition—some scratches and dings from 
> use.   100mm extension and 25.4 clamp diameter.  This seems like an older 
> version with lovely knurling on the two bolts and a disc “plug” instead of 
> the typical wedge to expand the stem in the steering tube.  $40 + shipping.
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:44:43 PM UTC-7 duh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Interested in R-14, will direct message as well.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:59:38 AM UTC-8 John M wrote:
>>
>>> I recently “re-homed” my Hunqapillar frameset and need to sell off some 
>>> parts before my innate urge to hoard overwhelms my latent good sense.  
>>> Paypal friends and family is preferred.  Thanks!
>>>
>>> Photos here:  PHOTOS! 
>>> 
>>>
>>>  *Silver Shifters v1*.  Excellent condition.  Used on the Hunq for 
>>> about year before switching over to bar-ends.  $40 shipped.
>>>
>>> *Clockwork custom quill stem.  *31.8 clamp diameter, removable 
>>> faceplate, 80mm extension and some upward angle (20 degrees?).  Bought from 
>>> a list member who had it built for his Hunqapillar and Jones Bar 
>>> combination.  Think of it as a chromed (and cheaper!) version of Riv’s new 
>>> “Faceplater” stems.  Good condition.  Some  scratches and signs of wear on 
>>> the chrome and small amount of rusting in the clamp area.  $65 shipped.
>>>
>>> *Nitto Pearl quill stem.*  Fair condition—some scratches and dings from 
>>> use.   100mm extension and 25.4 clamp diameter.  This seems like an older 
>>> version with lovely knurling on the two bolts and a disc “plug” instead of 
>>> the typical wedge to expand the stem in the steering tube.  $40 + shipping.
>>>
>>> *Nitto Mini Front Rack 32F.*  Good condition.  This is a small front 
>>> rack that mounts to fork braze-ons (or “P-clamps”) and through the fork 
>>> crown.  As seen here:  
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/racks/products/nitto-mini-front-rack-32f-20020.
>>>   
>>> This version has the front light mount.  $85 shipped.
>>>
>>> *Nitto R-14 Rear Rack.*  Good condition.  Long rack struts are 
>>> approximately 34cm while the shorts are about 13cm and bent.  This was 
>>> attached to my 54cm Hunqapillar frame using the upper and mid seat-stay 
>>> mounts and cleared the 2.25 knobby tire I was using.  $95  shipped.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for looking!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Bruce,

I think if I'm being totally honest with myself?

I'd like the option to run a tire between a 47 mm and a 55 mm. I think I'd
like the option to run a narrower tire if I wanted to? I need to figure
which rim would be suitable for that range. I'll look at the Atlas.

Thanks,

Hugh


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 4:18 PM Bruce Herbitter 
wrote:

> Hello Hugh:
>
> The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow
> compared to the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to
> consider with 55 tires.
>
> Bruce
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Bruce,
>
> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire
> well?
>
> Hugh
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged 
> wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Hugh,

 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah
 as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.

 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer
 a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO
> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35
> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very
> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have
> minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub
> as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being
> unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that
> makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet
> it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore
> off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.
>
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light
> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service 
> and
> the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace 
> them).
> All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
> wheelset, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Bruce Herbitter]

Hello Hugh:

The A23 is narrow for a 55 to sit well, I think. It’s also shallow compared to 
the cliffhanger. The Atlas might actually be one for you to consider with 55 
tires.

Bruce

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Hugh Smitham  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire 
> well? 
> 
> Hugh
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>> 
>>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>> Ben,
>>> 
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>> 
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>> 
>>> Best, 
>>> 
>>> ~Hugh
>>> 
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
 Hi Hugh,
 
 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as 
 you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
 
 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
 counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
 
 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
 
 
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring 
> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One 
> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily 
> tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
> 
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal 
> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as 
> medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being 
> unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that 
> makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet 
> it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore 
> off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother 
> me. 
> 
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light 
> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service 
> and the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace 
> them). All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no 
> nonsense hub. Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're 
> looking for a lower price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed 
> another 135 qr wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the 
> excellent customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hey Andy,

Great minds think alike.

I need to learn more about this Suzue Classica cassette rear. New to me.
I'll ask you the same question I've asked others. Do you think the Pacenti
Brevet rims would handle a 55mm tire well?

Hugh

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 5:25 AM ascpgh  wrote:

> I like shiny silver as well. My 650B rando bike has a SON front hub and a
> Suzue Classica cassette rear with Pacenti Brevet rims and 650B x 42 BSPs.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>
>> On with the question,
>>
>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
>> quality and then later impressions.
>>
>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?
>>
>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
>> at $165 nope!
>>
>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the
>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me
>> know?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.
>>
>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Steve,

I like "I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the remainder of my
riding" I have a similar thought regarding this Atlantis build.

I know nothing about the Bitex hubs other than they are a UK based company.
I was actually planning on 32 hole rims. I currently weigh in at 180# and
figured that would be sufficient. I think the velocity quills or
cliffhangers would be great.

I think it's a good aesthetic :)

I appreciate to recommendation.

Hugh Smitham
LALA land


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 3:35 AM Steve Cole  wrote:

> Hugh,  You and I seem to share the same aesthetic.  About a year ago, I
> purchased a long chain stay Atlantis.  I also wanted silver hubs and rims.
> I worked with James and Candice, the great folks at Analog Cycles, to make
> my dream bike.  It has a James-recommended silver 36H Bitex BX103R rear hub
> fitted to a 9 cog cassette, a silver  Schmidt SON Deluxe Wide body QR 32H
> Front Hub, Velocity Quill Rims, and Sapim Race spokes.  These wheels are
> shod with Rene Horse 700C x 55 Antelope Hill gum wall tires.  I love my
> wheels, not to mention my Atlantis. I would not change a thing.  Not
> inexpensive, but I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the
> remainder of my riding.  Good luck,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Hugh,

 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah
 as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.

 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer
 a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO
> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35
> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very
> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have
> minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub
> as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being
> unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that
> makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet
> it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore
> off and I stopped 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Bruce,

And thanks for the info. Do you think the A23's would handle a 55mm tire
well?

Hugh


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 2:47 AM Fullylugged  wrote:

> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for
> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can
> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built
> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I
> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm
> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs
> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine.
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>
>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
>> happy to listen/hear.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> ~Hugh
>>
>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Hugh,
>>>
>>> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah
>>> as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a
>>> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
>>> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
>>> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
>>> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
>>> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
>>> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>>>
>>> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
>>> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
>>> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>>>
 The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO
 touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35
 G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very
 easily tubeless using velocity rim tape.

 I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have
 minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub
 as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being
 unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that
 makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet
 it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore
 off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.

 Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light
 touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and
 the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them).
 All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
 Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
 price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
 wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent
 customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh
>
> On Wed, Feb 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Weston,

Really helpful info much appreciated Sir. Considering the PNW climate
that's a pretty good review.

Hugh

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 9:29 PM Weston Hein  wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring
> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One
> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily
> tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal
> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium
> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually
> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you
> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down
> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I
> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.
>
> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light touring
> and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and the
> bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them). All
> in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent
> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>
>>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a
>>> brake track.
>>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down
>>> the right hubs.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
 at $165 nope!

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let
 me know?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
 preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
 an esi like grip that's removes simply?

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> You received this 

Re: [RBW] Re: Frame schedule 2021

[Hugh Smitham]

Chris,

Just my opinion we all know what they're like and such. I don't think the
tenor of his original post was all that bad. I originally thought you both
knew each other well and it was just an inside joke. My second thought was
why point out something so trivial. I mean look what it's created all these
back and forth emails of discontent. I kinda wanted to be mad at him for
it. But I can't be. I can see how on the interwebs suggestions like this
can be frustrating and seemingly demeaning, He really didn't need to go
into the dog face name thing. TBH, the suggestion actually worked for me. I
haven't been very active on this group for a while and the new format is
maddening. So Mark I appreciate it the nudge.

Last thoughts, (I am paraphrasing here) I remember Jim I believe a long
time ago once saying, think long and hard before you post something,
consider how it might come across? This is especially true when you can't
see a person's face or hear their voice inflection. And may I respectfully
suggest to Mark using this very sage advice from our very own moderator.

This group has afforded me some of the best friends I have ever made in my
long life. I consider it a gem. There will no doubt be those that rub me
the wrong way as I probably do to others, perhaps this very email response
has irritated someone (s) just know that's not my intention...

Hugh




On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 10:46 AM Chris Birkenmaier 
wrote:

> Mark it’s really not worth my effort but my FULL NAME appears next to my
> dog avatar.  Can you not see it?  I can see it and I can read your full
> name next to your non-photo blue blob head avatar.  Other than slapping my
> knuckles on not doing a search, I’m confused why you had to do a Google
> search to investigate who I am.  I have very good manners but don’t feel as
> though I need to have my full name on posts at the top AND  then also add
> the name Chris again at the bottom.  All I can guess is  whatever format
> you are viewing doesn’t display it and you are saying I don’t have a name.
>   Please move on from being concerned about my full name and whether or not
> I’m a man. Check around, there are a lot of female Chris’ out there.
> Chris Birkenmaier
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 11:55:39 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> Chris: Re: Lovely Bicycle, occasional, but not a regular. She was a very
>> good writer and photographer, and had some interesting takes on the world
>> of bicycles. Now she's in Ireland with a family and a yarn knitting
>> business.
>>
>> I was not suggesting that you were hiding anything, but speaking of
>> friendly manners, if your name does not appear at the top of your post, it
>> is good manners to sign at the bottom. As I explained,  I found out who you
>> were by...putting your email remnant into the "search" box. Going through,
>> I found some of your posts signed "Chris" and mistakenly assumed male.
>> (Though my odds were high for being correct based on overall members; at
>> least those who participate.) I don't know what else I got wrong. I made no
>> attempt to guess your dog's name!;^)
>>
>> Not to belabor the point, but I wrote: *May I suggest you try putting
>> the word Charlie in ye olde search box at the top of the page.  Good stuff.*"
>> Again, I don't find  "May I suggest" to be rude or unfriendly.  To answer
>> your question with any accuracy, I suspect most who wanted to respond would
>> have to do that or something similar.  For those of you who may not read
>> the Blahg, GP has been on a self-recognized "ye olde" kick for some time,
>> so it was a mild attempt to insert some inside humor. As was the reference
>> to the old Nobody knows you are a dog on the internet.
>>
>> Rivendell has a habit of not using permalinks for their web pages. So
>> every time they revamp or rearrange, pages get lost. It's a Riv style road
>> bike that can take drop bars well, wider tires than Roadini, has the swoop
>> tube found on the Susie/Gus bikes. Started out canti, now sidepull (to the
>> dismay of some, but plenty of canti.v-brake Rivs to choose from.
>>
>> [image: charlie drawing.JPG][image: charlie.jpg]
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:09:52 PM UTC-5 cbirk...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe, thank you for coming to my defense in asking about the Charlie
>>> model!  Much appreciated!
>>> Mark- not sure why you needed to respond in an acerbic way to my
>>> question but you got several things wrong.  Although I’m a longtime member
>>> I am a “Christine “ therefore not a “he”.  The cute dog is my Golden
>>> Retriever, who by total coincidence is named Charlie.  I go by Chris so
>>> that is my true name and I’m not hiding behind an avatar.
>>> We like to have discussions on this forum in a friendly manner.  Were
>>> you a frequent poster on Lovely Bicycle per chance?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 4:28:04 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 Not sure how you turn "May I suggest" into demanding someone do
 anything. Not sure what 

[RBW] Re: For sale: Nitto racks, Nitto and Clockwork Stems, Silver Shifters

[John M]

Quick update.  Both racks are now sold (thanks Jared and Dave!).  Items 
remaining:

Photos here:  PHOTOS! 


 *Silver Shifters v1*.  Excellent condition.  Used on the Hunq for about 
year before switching over to bar-ends.  $40 shipped.

*Clockwork custom quill stem.  *31.8 clamp diameter, removable faceplate, 
80mm extension and some upward angle (20 degrees?).  Bought from a list 
member who had it built for his Hunqapillar and Jones Bar combination.  
Think of it as a chromed (and cheaper!) version of Riv’s new “Faceplater” 
stems.  Good condition.  Some  scratches and signs of wear on the chrome 
and small amount of rusting in the clamp area.  $65 shipped.

*Nitto Pearl quill stem.*  Fair condition—some scratches and dings from 
use.   100mm extension and 25.4 clamp diameter.  This seems like an older 
version with lovely knurling on the two bolts and a disc “plug” instead of 
the typical wedge to expand the stem in the steering tube.  $40 + shipping.




On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:44:43 PM UTC-7 duh...@gmail.com wrote:

> Interested in R-14, will direct message as well.
>
> Jared
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:59:38 AM UTC-8 John M wrote:
>
>> I recently “re-homed” my Hunqapillar frameset and need to sell off some 
>> parts before my innate urge to hoard overwhelms my latent good sense.  
>> Paypal friends and family is preferred.  Thanks!
>>
>> Photos here:  PHOTOS! 
>> 
>>
>>  *Silver Shifters v1*.  Excellent condition.  Used on the Hunq for about 
>> year before switching over to bar-ends.  $40 shipped.
>>
>> *Clockwork custom quill stem.  *31.8 clamp diameter, removable 
>> faceplate, 80mm extension and some upward angle (20 degrees?).  Bought from 
>> a list member who had it built for his Hunqapillar and Jones Bar 
>> combination.  Think of it as a chromed (and cheaper!) version of Riv’s new 
>> “Faceplater” stems.  Good condition.  Some  scratches and signs of wear on 
>> the chrome and small amount of rusting in the clamp area.  $65 shipped.
>>
>> *Nitto Pearl quill stem.*  Fair condition—some scratches and dings from 
>> use.   100mm extension and 25.4 clamp diameter.  This seems like an older 
>> version with lovely knurling on the two bolts and a disc “plug” instead of 
>> the typical wedge to expand the stem in the steering tube.  $40 + shipping.
>>
>> *Nitto Mini Front Rack 32F.*  Good condition.  This is a small front 
>> rack that mounts to fork braze-ons (or “P-clamps”) and through the fork 
>> crown.  As seen here:  
>> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/racks/products/nitto-mini-front-rack-32f-20020.
>>   
>> This version has the front light mount.  $85 shipped.
>>
>> *Nitto R-14 Rear Rack.*  Good condition.  Long rack struts are 
>> approximately 34cm while the shorts are about 13cm and bent.  This was 
>> attached to my 54cm Hunqapillar frame using the upper and mid seat-stay 
>> mounts and cleared the 2.25 knobby tire I was using.  $95  shipped.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for looking!
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] The joy of winter riding, and how do you keep your toes warm?

[Roberta]

I think I love that boot!  I don't read Annie's blog regularly, but I think 
I might start.  She also sung the praises of a very nice looking coat 
recently, which was inexpensive, warm and nice looking.

Annie is one on those I follow on IG that has inspired me to "go colder."  
Mark from NY,  Deacon Patrick from CO, Jason Fuller from Canada, and 
Takashi from Japan and others (I'm sorry if I haven't mentioned your name, 
but you are no less special to me) have also unknowingly inspired me to 
ride in the cold either by incredible posts and pictures here or on IG.  
All, the same, I'm glad it doesn't snow much here.

I have a pair of LL Bean hunting boots that I thought I'd  wear for more 
air circulation.  They are also big enough that I can do the double sock 
option, I think, along with the  vapor barrier idea of Garth's.   Also 
intriguing are the capsaicin and gaiter suggestions.  I own everything 
except the gaiters (and those cute LL Bean boots) to be able to do a first 
run of it.

Roberta

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:52:30 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote:

> Annie from Annie's Bike blog posted this recently.  She's located in 
> Vermont, so knows cold.
>
>
> https://anniebikes.blogspot.com/2021/01/my-favorite-winter-cycling-boot-storm.html
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:32:05 AM UTC-8 greenteadrinkers wrote:
>
>> I've found that insulated crocs do well in the 40-35 degree zone. Easy 
>> on, easy off. 
>> Scott
>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 8:18:21 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Will B and Will D. I have an older pair of the Lake winter shoes 
>>> (even older than the MXZ303, from looking at the pictures), and they're 
>>> quite warm I usually have to wear them only a few times each winter, but 
>>> when I need them, I'm glad I have them. I had a pair of later Lake winter 
>>> road boots, but didn't like those as much and sold them when I switched to 
>>> SPDs on my road bikes.
>>>
>>> I know that the neoprene covers are an essential part of the protection 
>>> system, but I really would prefer a boot without them, with room for 2 
>>> pairs of wool socks, including an outer, heavier pair, and thickish uppers 
>>> and a sole with some tread. But then, I rarely have to ride in slush or 
>>> rain or sleet.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:50 PM Will Boericke  wrote:
>>>
 They are an older model of Shimano shoes.  The current version has some 
 name like MW7.  Lightly insulated, gore-tex, with a neoprene collar.   The 
 collar is the thing that's dying first - rest of the shoe is still going 
 strong.  I wear them every day for my commute (October - April) + cold 
 weather mtb and road duty in the shoulder season.  They are probably 1/2 
 size larger than my Sidis: extra room for socks and happy warm feet.  The 
 only downside (which I think is corrected in the newer model) is that the 
 sole is just plastic.  I have done several headers in them, one notably in 
 my backyard on ice under snow.  Luckily I was wearing my helmet.  Wish I 
 had footage.

 When I replace them, I might spring for Lake's winter shoes.  I think 
 they are the ne plus ultra of winter shoes.

 Will, keeping feet dry and riding in all temps.

 On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, 12:42 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Will: Can you describe, or give make and model, of your dedicated 
> winter bike shoes?
>
>
> Patrick Moore, still hoping for some rideable snow this season, in 
> ABQ, NM
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 10:39 AM Will Boericke  
> wrote:
>
>> Dedicated winter bike shoes have been the best money I've spent, 
>> bike-wise.  Gore-tex and 1/2 size bigger.  Did 2 hours on the mtb in 12 
>> degrees yesterday, no problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 12:08:14 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> A not-quite-on-topic, and in any case no longer attainable factor in 
>>> cold weather warmth is youth. Back when I was in my 20s, youthful hot 
>>> blood, to use another weird Victorian concept, kept me warm in cold 
>>> weather. During my 5 years in La Ville de Kebek, I did my 4 miles of 
>>> running outside in temps as low as -17*F (the high on the coldest day I 
>>> ran; I went X-country skiiing at 20 below or lower), and my kit was 
>>> poor-grad-student cheap: regular running shoes over thick wool socks 
>>> from 
>>> some sort of Eastern Canadian chain store, thin, cotton Kmart sweat 
>>> pants, 
>>> and cotton T shirt under cheap ditto cotton sweatshirt under high 
>>> quality 
>>> but very old anorak with peeling water barrier, plus acrylic scarf and 
>>> *toque,* and cheap fleece-lined leather work gloves. I only ever 
>>> felt cold on that -17* high day; on most days, I'd peel off scarf and 
>>> open 
>>> anorak zipper halfway through my 4 miles, running, not jogging. 
>>> Interesting, I 

[RBW] FS: Wool Hoodie

[Dave Grossman]

I've had this for a long while but I've been wearing my NW Alpine/Revelate 
Hoodie so often I never wear it anymore.  For all the wool lovers out 
there

Mountain Hardware Wool Hoodie
Men's Large
Has a snag in the left cuff and piling but otherwise in good shape.  

40% Recycled wool content.  Pics 
here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvpX5jHbcQJThPWW9

Asking $35 shipped.  Would also trade for a cool Paul Components Hoodie in 
a size large, especially the barbarian hoodie.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Frame schedule 2021

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi David,

I remember you Sir. Beautiful black and cream Hillborne if memory serves
me. Yes I have a semi-custom Bantam and I was on that ride with Russ and
Laura. It was an interesting ride because it was nearly the last ride I did
in 2020. I developed a nagging IT band issue. After that ride I was in
excruciating pain so any rides I do are pretty sedate and short at the
moment. Good to hear from you Mr.Person in Thousand Oaks.


Best Regards,

Hugh

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 1:57 PM David Person  wrote:

> Hey Hugh, hope you are doing well.  I saw a video that Russ had on his PLP
> YouTube channel where you were riding a Bantam.  New bike for you since we
> last did our one ride together in last 2015.
>
> David Person in Thousand Oaks
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 10:45:55 AM UTC-8 cbirk...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Mark it’s really not worth my effort but my FULL NAME appears next to my
>> dog avatar.  Can you not see it?  I can see it and I can read your full
>> name next to your non-photo blue blob head avatar.  Other than slapping my
>> knuckles on not doing a search, I’m confused why you had to do a Google
>> search to investigate who I am.  I have very good manners but don’t feel as
>> though I need to have my full name on posts at the top AND  then also add
>> the name Chris again at the bottom.  All I can guess is  whatever format
>> you are viewing doesn’t display it and you are saying I don’t have a name.
>>   Please move on from being concerned about my full name and whether or not
>> I’m a man. Check around, there are a lot of female Chris’ out there.
>> Chris Birkenmaier
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 11:55:39 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>
>>> Chris: Re: Lovely Bicycle, occasional, but not a regular. She was a very
>>> good writer and photographer, and had some interesting takes on the world
>>> of bicycles. Now she's in Ireland with a family and a yarn knitting
>>> business.
>>>
>>> I was not suggesting that you were hiding anything, but speaking of
>>> friendly manners, if your name does not appear at the top of your post, it
>>> is good manners to sign at the bottom. As I explained,  I found out who you
>>> were by...putting your email remnant into the "search" box. Going through,
>>> I found some of your posts signed "Chris" and mistakenly assumed male.
>>> (Though my odds were high for being correct based on overall members; at
>>> least those who participate.) I don't know what else I got wrong. I made no
>>> attempt to guess your dog's name!;^)
>>>
>>> Not to belabor the point, but I wrote: *May I suggest you try putting
>>> the word Charlie in ye olde search box at the top of the page.  Good 
>>> stuff.*"
>>> Again, I don't find  "May I suggest" to be rude or unfriendly.  To answer
>>> your question with any accuracy, I suspect most who wanted to respond would
>>> have to do that or something similar.  For those of you who may not read
>>> the Blahg, GP has been on a self-recognized "ye olde" kick for some time,
>>> so it was a mild attempt to insert some inside humor. As was the reference
>>> to the old Nobody knows you are a dog on the internet.
>>>
>>> Rivendell has a habit of not using permalinks for their web pages. So
>>> every time they revamp or rearrange, pages get lost. It's a Riv style road
>>> bike that can take drop bars well, wider tires than Roadini, has the swoop
>>> tube found on the Susie/Gus bikes. Started out canti, now sidepull (to the
>>> dismay of some, but plenty of canti.v-brake Rivs to choose from.
>>>
>>> [image: charlie drawing.JPG][image: charlie.jpg]
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:09:52 PM UTC-5 cbirk...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Joe, thank you for coming to my defense in asking about the Charlie
 model!  Much appreciated!
 Mark- not sure why you needed to respond in an acerbic way to my
 question but you got several things wrong.  Although I’m a longtime member
 I am a “Christine “ therefore not a “he”.  The cute dog is my Golden
 Retriever, who by total coincidence is named Charlie.  I go by Chris so
 that is my true name and I’m not hiding behind an avatar.
 We like to have discussions on this forum in a friendly manner.  Were
 you a frequent poster on Lovely Bicycle per chance?

 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 4:28:04 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> Not sure how you turn "May I suggest" into demanding someone do
> anything. Not sure what the amount of traffic has to do with it. In any
> case, he is a regular member. Why not teach him to fish instead of
> expecting others to rehash for him?. All the info currently out there is
> available by typing one word.
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 2:22:29 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> My recollection is the Charlie Gallop is a new road bike along the
>> lines of the Roadini but with a swoopy toptube like Gus/Susie. I don't
>> think this list gets enough traffic to be demanding that people 

[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto Albastache bars

[Kieran J]

SOLD

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:18:36 PM UTC-8 Kieran J wrote:

> I've got a nice set of Albastache bars up for grabs. Looks like these are 
> still OOS on Rivbike.
>
> Asking USD$75 shipped in North America.
>
> Thanks,
> Kieran
> Victoria, BC
>
> [image: IMG_8715.JPG]
>

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[RBW] Re: Frame schedule 2021

[David Person]

Hey Hugh, hope you are doing well.  I saw a video that Russ had on his PLP 
YouTube channel where you were riding a Bantam.  New bike for you since we 
last did our one ride together in last 2015.

David Person in Thousand Oaks

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 10:45:55 AM UTC-8 cbirk...@gmail.com wrote:

> Mark it’s really not worth my effort but my FULL NAME appears next to my 
> dog avatar.  Can you not see it?  I can see it and I can read your full 
> name next to your non-photo blue blob head avatar.  Other than slapping my 
> knuckles on not doing a search, I’m confused why you had to do a Google 
> search to investigate who I am.  I have very good manners but don’t feel as 
> though I need to have my full name on posts at the top AND  then also add 
> the name Chris again at the bottom.  All I can guess is  whatever format 
> you are viewing doesn’t display it and you are saying I don’t have a name. 
>   Please move on from being concerned about my full name and whether or not 
> I’m a man. Check around, there are a lot of female Chris’ out there.
> Chris Birkenmaier 
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 11:55:39 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> Chris: Re: Lovely Bicycle, occasional, but not a regular. She was a very 
>> good writer and photographer, and had some interesting takes on the world 
>> of bicycles. Now she's in Ireland with a family and a yarn knitting 
>> business. 
>>
>> I was not suggesting that you were hiding anything, but speaking of 
>> friendly manners, if your name does not appear at the top of your post, it 
>> is good manners to sign at the bottom. As I explained,  I found out who you 
>> were by...putting your email remnant into the "search" box. Going through, 
>> I found some of your posts signed "Chris" and mistakenly assumed male. 
>> (Though my odds were high for being correct based on overall members; at 
>> least those who participate.) I don't know what else I got wrong. I made no 
>> attempt to guess your dog's name!;^)
>>
>> Not to belabor the point, but I wrote: *May I suggest you try putting 
>> the word Charlie in ye olde search box at the top of the page.  Good 
>> stuff.*"  
>> Again, I don't find  "May I suggest" to be rude or unfriendly.  To answer 
>> your question with any accuracy, I suspect most who wanted to respond would 
>> have to do that or something similar.  For those of you who may not read 
>> the Blahg, GP has been on a self-recognized "ye olde" kick for some time, 
>> so it was a mild attempt to insert some inside humor. As was the reference 
>> to the old Nobody knows you are a dog on the internet.
>>
>> Rivendell has a habit of not using permalinks for their web pages. So 
>> every time they revamp or rearrange, pages get lost. It's a Riv style road 
>> bike that can take drop bars well, wider tires than Roadini, has the swoop 
>> tube found on the Susie/Gus bikes. Started out canti, now sidepull (to the 
>> dismay of some, but plenty of canti.v-brake Rivs to choose from.
>>
>> [image: charlie drawing.JPG][image: charlie.jpg]
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:09:52 PM UTC-5 cbirk...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe, thank you for coming to my defense in asking about the Charlie 
>>> model!  Much appreciated!
>>> Mark- not sure why you needed to respond in an acerbic way to my 
>>> question but you got several things wrong.  Although I’m a longtime member 
>>> I am a “Christine “ therefore not a “he”.  The cute dog is my Golden 
>>> Retriever, who by total coincidence is named Charlie.  I go by Chris so 
>>> that is my true name and I’m not hiding behind an avatar.
>>> We like to have discussions on this forum in a friendly manner.  Were 
>>> you a frequent poster on Lovely Bicycle per chance?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 4:28:04 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 Not sure how you turn "May I suggest" into demanding someone do 
 anything. Not sure what the amount of traffic has to do with it. In any 
 case, he is a regular member. Why not teach him to fish instead of 
 expecting others to rehash for him?. All the info currently out there is 
 available by typing one word.

 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 2:22:29 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My recollection is the Charlie Gallop is a new road bike along the 
> lines of the Roadini but with a swoopy toptube like Gus/Susie. I don't 
> think this list gets enough traffic to be demanding that people use the 
> search function for a question like this, it takes just as long to say 
> that 
> as to answer the question. 
>


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Re: [RBW] The joy of winter riding, and how do you keep your toes warm?

[David Person]

Annie from Annie's Bike blog posted this recently.  She's located in 
Vermont, so knows cold.

https://anniebikes.blogspot.com/2021/01/my-favorite-winter-cycling-boot-storm.html

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:32:05 AM UTC-8 greenteadrinkers wrote:

> I've found that insulated crocs do well in the 40-35 degree zone. Easy on, 
> easy off. 
> Scott
> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 8:18:21 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks Will B and Will D. I have an older pair of the Lake winter shoes 
>> (even older than the MXZ303, from looking at the pictures), and they're 
>> quite warm I usually have to wear them only a few times each winter, but 
>> when I need them, I'm glad I have them. I had a pair of later Lake winter 
>> road boots, but didn't like those as much and sold them when I switched to 
>> SPDs on my road bikes.
>>
>> I know that the neoprene covers are an essential part of the protection 
>> system, but I really would prefer a boot without them, with room for 2 
>> pairs of wool socks, including an outer, heavier pair, and thickish uppers 
>> and a sole with some tread. But then, I rarely have to ride in slush or 
>> rain or sleet.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:50 PM Will Boericke  wrote:
>>
>>> They are an older model of Shimano shoes.  The current version has some 
>>> name like MW7.  Lightly insulated, gore-tex, with a neoprene collar.   The 
>>> collar is the thing that's dying first - rest of the shoe is still going 
>>> strong.  I wear them every day for my commute (October - April) + cold 
>>> weather mtb and road duty in the shoulder season.  They are probably 1/2 
>>> size larger than my Sidis: extra room for socks and happy warm feet.  The 
>>> only downside (which I think is corrected in the newer model) is that the 
>>> sole is just plastic.  I have done several headers in them, one notably in 
>>> my backyard on ice under snow.  Luckily I was wearing my helmet.  Wish I 
>>> had footage.
>>>
>>> When I replace them, I might spring for Lake's winter shoes.  I think 
>>> they are the ne plus ultra of winter shoes.
>>>
>>> Will, keeping feet dry and riding in all temps.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, 12:42 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 Will: Can you describe, or give make and model, of your dedicated 
 winter bike shoes?


 Patrick Moore, still hoping for some rideable snow this season, in ABQ, 
 NM

 On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 10:39 AM Will Boericke  
 wrote:

> Dedicated winter bike shoes have been the best money I've spent, 
> bike-wise.  Gore-tex and 1/2 size bigger.  Did 2 hours on the mtb in 12 
> degrees yesterday, no problem.
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 12:08:14 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> A not-quite-on-topic, and in any case no longer attainable factor in 
>> cold weather warmth is youth. Back when I was in my 20s, youthful hot 
>> blood, to use another weird Victorian concept, kept me warm in cold 
>> weather. During my 5 years in La Ville de Kebek, I did my 4 miles of 
>> running outside in temps as low as -17*F (the high on the coldest day I 
>> ran; I went X-country skiiing at 20 below or lower), and my kit was 
>> poor-grad-student cheap: regular running shoes over thick wool socks 
>> from 
>> some sort of Eastern Canadian chain store, thin, cotton Kmart sweat 
>> pants, 
>> and cotton T shirt under cheap ditto cotton sweatshirt under high 
>> quality 
>> but very old anorak with peeling water barrier, plus acrylic scarf and 
>> *toque,* and cheap fleece-lined leather work gloves. I only ever 
>> felt cold on that -17* high day; on most days, I'd peel off scarf and 
>> open 
>> anorak zipper halfway through my 4 miles, running, not jogging. 
>> Interesting, I always felt more energetic on very cold days; I guess the 
>> body expends little energy in heat dissipation when it's well below 
>> freezing (temps when snow feels like dense styrofoam). My puny youthful 
>> moustache would be entirely encased in a chrysalis of ice (this was late 
>> '70s and early '80s).
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
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> 
> .
>


 -- 

 

[RBW] Re: For sale: Nitto racks, Nitto and Clockwork Stems, Silver Shifters

[Jared Wilson]

Interested in R-14, will direct message as well.

Jared

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:59:38 AM UTC-8 John M wrote:

> I recently “re-homed” my Hunqapillar frameset and need to sell off some 
> parts before my innate urge to hoard overwhelms my latent good sense.  
> Paypal friends and family is preferred.  Thanks!
>
> Photos here:  PHOTOS! 
> 
>
>  *Silver Shifters v1*.  Excellent condition.  Used on the Hunq for about 
> year before switching over to bar-ends.  $40 shipped.
>
> *Clockwork custom quill stem.  *31.8 clamp diameter, removable faceplate, 
> 80mm extension and some upward angle (20 degrees?).  Bought from a list 
> member who had it built for his Hunqapillar and Jones Bar combination.  
> Think of it as a chromed (and cheaper!) version of Riv’s new “Faceplater” 
> stems.  Good condition.  Some  scratches and signs of wear on the chrome 
> and small amount of rusting in the clamp area.  $65 shipped.
>
> *Nitto Pearl quill stem.*  Fair condition—some scratches and dings from 
> use.   100mm extension and 25.4 clamp diameter.  This seems like an older 
> version with lovely knurling on the two bolts and a disc “plug” instead of 
> the typical wedge to expand the stem in the steering tube.  $40 + shipping.
>
> *Nitto Mini Front Rack 32F.*  Good condition.  This is a small front rack 
> that mounts to fork braze-ons (or “P-clamps”) and through the fork crown.  
> As seen here:  
> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/racks/products/nitto-mini-front-rack-32f-20020.
>   
> This version has the front light mount.  $85 shipped.
>
> *Nitto R-14 Rear Rack.*  Good condition.  Long rack struts are 
> approximately 34cm while the shorts are about 13cm and bent.  This was 
> attached to my 54cm Hunqapillar frame using the upper and mid seat-stay 
> mounts and cleared the 2.25 knobby tire I was using.  $95  shipped.
>
>
> Thanks for looking!
>
> John
>
>
>

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[RBW] For sale: Nitto racks, Nitto and Clockwork Stems, Silver Shifters

[John M]

I recently “re-homed” my Hunqapillar frameset and need to sell off some 
parts before my innate urge to hoard overwhelms my latent good sense.  
Paypal friends and family is preferred.  Thanks!

Photos here:  PHOTOS! 


 *Silver Shifters v1*.  Excellent condition.  Used on the Hunq for about 
year before switching over to bar-ends.  $40 shipped.

*Clockwork custom quill stem.  *31.8 clamp diameter, removable faceplate, 
80mm extension and some upward angle (20 degrees?).  Bought from a list 
member who had it built for his Hunqapillar and Jones Bar combination.  
Think of it as a chromed (and cheaper!) version of Riv’s new “Faceplater” 
stems.  Good condition.  Some  scratches and signs of wear on the chrome 
and small amount of rusting in the clamp area.  $65 shipped.

*Nitto Pearl quill stem.*  Fair condition—some scratches and dings from 
use.   100mm extension and 25.4 clamp diameter.  This seems like an older 
version with lovely knurling on the two bolts and a disc “plug” instead of 
the typical wedge to expand the stem in the steering tube.  $40 + shipping.

*Nitto Mini Front Rack 32F.*  Good condition.  This is a small front rack 
that mounts to fork braze-ons (or “P-clamps”) and through the fork crown.  
As seen here:  
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/racks/products/nitto-mini-front-rack-32f-20020.
  
This version has the front light mount.  $85 shipped.

*Nitto R-14 Rear Rack.*  Good condition.  Long rack struts are 
approximately 34cm while the shorts are about 13cm and bent.  This was 
attached to my 54cm Hunqapillar frame using the upper and mid seat-stay 
mounts and cleared the 2.25 knobby tire I was using.  $95  shipped.


Thanks for looking!

John


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Re: [RBW] Bikes on eBay, CraigsLIst, and Other Sites

[Matthew Williams]

Roadini F/F/HS
60cm
$800
Portland, OR

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-roadini-frame-60cm/7272371001.html




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Re: [RBW] The joy of winter riding, and how do you keep your toes warm?

[greenteadrinkers]

I've found that insulated crocs do well in the 40-35 degree zone. Easy on, 
easy off. 
Scott
On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 8:18:21 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks Will B and Will D. I have an older pair of the Lake winter shoes 
> (even older than the MXZ303, from looking at the pictures), and they're 
> quite warm I usually have to wear them only a few times each winter, but 
> when I need them, I'm glad I have them. I had a pair of later Lake winter 
> road boots, but didn't like those as much and sold them when I switched to 
> SPDs on my road bikes.
>
> I know that the neoprene covers are an essential part of the protection 
> system, but I really would prefer a boot without them, with room for 2 
> pairs of wool socks, including an outer, heavier pair, and thickish uppers 
> and a sole with some tread. But then, I rarely have to ride in slush or 
> rain or sleet.
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:50 PM Will Boericke  wrote:
>
>> They are an older model of Shimano shoes.  The current version has some 
>> name like MW7.  Lightly insulated, gore-tex, with a neoprene collar.   The 
>> collar is the thing that's dying first - rest of the shoe is still going 
>> strong.  I wear them every day for my commute (October - April) + cold 
>> weather mtb and road duty in the shoulder season.  They are probably 1/2 
>> size larger than my Sidis: extra room for socks and happy warm feet.  The 
>> only downside (which I think is corrected in the newer model) is that the 
>> sole is just plastic.  I have done several headers in them, one notably in 
>> my backyard on ice under snow.  Luckily I was wearing my helmet.  Wish I 
>> had footage.
>>
>> When I replace them, I might spring for Lake's winter shoes.  I think 
>> they are the ne plus ultra of winter shoes.
>>
>> Will, keeping feet dry and riding in all temps.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, 12:42 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Will: Can you describe, or give make and model, of your dedicated winter 
>>> bike shoes?
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore, still hoping for some rideable snow this season, in ABQ, 
>>> NM
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 10:39 AM Will Boericke  wrote:
>>>
 Dedicated winter bike shoes have been the best money I've spent, 
 bike-wise.  Gore-tex and 1/2 size bigger.  Did 2 hours on the mtb in 12 
 degrees yesterday, no problem.



 On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 12:08:14 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> A not-quite-on-topic, and in any case no longer attainable factor in 
> cold weather warmth is youth. Back when I was in my 20s, youthful hot 
> blood, to use another weird Victorian concept, kept me warm in cold 
> weather. During my 5 years in La Ville de Kebek, I did my 4 miles of 
> running outside in temps as low as -17*F (the high on the coldest day I 
> ran; I went X-country skiiing at 20 below or lower), and my kit was 
> poor-grad-student cheap: regular running shoes over thick wool socks from 
> some sort of Eastern Canadian chain store, thin, cotton Kmart sweat 
> pants, 
> and cotton T shirt under cheap ditto cotton sweatshirt under high quality 
> but very old anorak with peeling water barrier, plus acrylic scarf and 
> *toque,* and cheap fleece-lined leather work gloves. I only ever felt 
> cold on that -17* high day; on most days, I'd peel off scarf and open 
> anorak zipper halfway through my 4 miles, running, not jogging. 
> Interesting, I always felt more energetic on very cold days; I guess the 
> body expends little energy in heat dissipation when it's well below 
> freezing (temps when snow feels like dense styrofoam). My puny youthful 
> moustache would be entirely encased in a chrysalis of ice (this was late 
> '70s and early '80s).
>
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -- 
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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> .

[RBW] Re: Frame schedule 2021

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Mark it’s really not worth my effort but my FULL NAME appears next to my 
dog avatar.  Can you not see it?  I can see it and I can read your full 
name next to your non-photo blue blob head avatar.  Other than slapping my 
knuckles on not doing a search, I’m confused why you had to do a Google 
search to investigate who I am.  I have very good manners but don’t feel as 
though I need to have my full name on posts at the top AND  then also add 
the name Chris again at the bottom.  All I can guess is  whatever format 
you are viewing doesn’t display it and you are saying I don’t have a name. 
  Please move on from being concerned about my full name and whether or not 
I’m a man. Check around, there are a lot of female Chris’ out there.
Chris Birkenmaier 

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 11:55:39 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> Chris: Re: Lovely Bicycle, occasional, but not a regular. She was a very 
> good writer and photographer, and had some interesting takes on the world 
> of bicycles. Now she's in Ireland with a family and a yarn knitting 
> business. 
>
> I was not suggesting that you were hiding anything, but speaking of 
> friendly manners, if your name does not appear at the top of your post, it 
> is good manners to sign at the bottom. As I explained,  I found out who you 
> were by...putting your email remnant into the "search" box. Going through, 
> I found some of your posts signed "Chris" and mistakenly assumed male. 
> (Though my odds were high for being correct based on overall members; at 
> least those who participate.) I don't know what else I got wrong. I made no 
> attempt to guess your dog's name!;^)
>
> Not to belabor the point, but I wrote: *May I suggest you try putting the 
> word Charlie in ye olde search box at the top of the page.  Good stuff.*"  
> Again, I don't find  "May I suggest" to be rude or unfriendly.  To answer 
> your question with any accuracy, I suspect most who wanted to respond would 
> have to do that or something similar.  For those of you who may not read 
> the Blahg, GP has been on a self-recognized "ye olde" kick for some time, 
> so it was a mild attempt to insert some inside humor. As was the reference 
> to the old Nobody knows you are a dog on the internet.
>
> Rivendell has a habit of not using permalinks for their web pages. So 
> every time they revamp or rearrange, pages get lost. It's a Riv style road 
> bike that can take drop bars well, wider tires than Roadini, has the swoop 
> tube found on the Susie/Gus bikes. Started out canti, now sidepull (to the 
> dismay of some, but plenty of canti.v-brake Rivs to choose from.
>
> [image: charlie drawing.JPG][image: charlie.jpg]
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:09:52 PM UTC-5 cbirk...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Joe, thank you for coming to my defense in asking about the Charlie 
>> model!  Much appreciated!
>> Mark- not sure why you needed to respond in an acerbic way to my question 
>> but you got several things wrong.  Although I’m a longtime member I am a 
>> “Christine “ therefore not a “he”.  The cute dog is my Golden Retriever, 
>> who by total coincidence is named Charlie.  I go by Chris so that is my 
>> true name and I’m not hiding behind an avatar.
>> We like to have discussions on this forum in a friendly manner.  Were you 
>> a frequent poster on Lovely Bicycle per chance?
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 4:28:04 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure how you turn "May I suggest" into demanding someone do 
>>> anything. Not sure what the amount of traffic has to do with it. In any 
>>> case, he is a regular member. Why not teach him to fish instead of 
>>> expecting others to rehash for him?. All the info currently out there is 
>>> available by typing one word.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 2:22:29 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 My recollection is the Charlie Gallop is a new road bike along the 
 lines of the Roadini but with a swoopy toptube like Gus/Susie. I don't 
 think this list gets enough traffic to be demanding that people use the 
 search function for a question like this, it takes just as long to say 
 that 
 as to answer the question. 

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Mike,

I misstated,  velocity doesn't say "optimal" anything on the A23. I
extrapolated that from their specs. Meaning 35mm was their recommended max
tire width. They use the term"optimal" with the cliffhanger's specs. Sorry
for the confusion.


Specs

RIMS (CLICK FOR COLOR OPTIONS):
A23 650c  : 23mm - 35mm
tires
A23 700c  : 23mm - 35mm
tires
A23 OC 700c  : 23mm -
35mm tires


I think that's just what they feel comfortable listing perhaps based on
their testing? I ran 42mm on a similar velocity rim. Report back how your
47's do on these rims?


Hugh

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 9:39 AM velomann  wrote:

> "You'll notice the A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm"
>
> I'm not sure why Velocity says that. And what is "optimal max?" It seems
> like Optimal and Max are 2 different things?
> Anyway...
> I use the chart WTB has on their website here:
> https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart
> I've found it to be accurate and extremely useful.
> I will be running Panaracer Gravelking SK's - 650b x 47 - on these rims
> and expect it to be just fine based on experience with rims of similar
> width.
> BTW, Will at Rivendell recommended these rims for similar size tires.
> But I probably would go wider if I was interested in running 55's.
>
> MIke M
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>
>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>
>>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a
>>> brake track.
>>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down
>>> the right hubs.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a
 search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
 William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
 same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.

 On with the question,

 Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
 Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does
 it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
 loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build
 quality and then later impressions.

 It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver
 shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub
 and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to
 $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it?

 I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :(
 Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed.
 If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent
 tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims
 at $165 nope!

 I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on
 the Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let
 me know?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact.

 Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on
 running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My
 preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there
 an esi like grip that's removes simply?

>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[velomann]

"You'll notice the A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm"

I'm not sure why Velocity says that. And what is "optimal max?" It seems 
like Optimal and Max are 2 different things?
Anyway...
I use the chart WTB has on their website 
here: https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart  
I've found it to be accurate and extremely useful. 
I will be running Panaracer Gravelking SK's - 650b x 47 - on these rims and 
expect it to be just fine based on experience with rims of similar width.
BTW, Will at Rivendell recommended these rims for similar size tires.
But I probably would go wider if I was interested in running 55's.

MIke M

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the A23's 
> optimal max tire width is 35mm 
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the 
> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>
>> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
>> brake track.
>> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down the 
>> right hubs.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
>>> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
>>> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
>>> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>>>
>>> On with the question,
>>>
>>> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
>>> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
>>> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
>>> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
>>> quality and then later impressions.
>>>
>>> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
>>> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
>>> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
>>> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
>>> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
>>> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
>>> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
>>> at $165 nope! 
>>>
>>> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
>>> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
>>> know? 
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>>>
>>> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
>>> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
>>> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
>>> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: I'm ready

[Chris Birkenmaier]

For my “go fast” Riv, I find the Albastache to work really well which is on 
my Roadini.   My Sam has the Bullmoose, the Mountain Mixte has the VO 
Klunker, the Cheviot has the Jones bar and the Quickbeam is an Ahearne. 
 Soma San Marcos has the Albatross.  All good bars but the Albastache seems 
the sportiest of the group
On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 9:16:39 AM UTC-5 Pete B wrote:

> Is there a particular handlebar you'd like to use? If you are looking for 
> an upright but sporty ride, you may want to choose a Riv frame that allows 
> you to lean forward even with a swept back handlebar. I'm not talking super 
> aggressive position, I'm talking touring-bike-with-drop bars lean forward.
>
> For example,  I have a Rosco Bubbe Road with a sloping top tube and tall 
> headtube that makes it very easy to get moustache and drop bars close and 
> comfortable. It's a lot like a SimpleOne, and uses that fork. However, 
> anything more swept back than an Albatross bar would probably require a 
> very long stem for me to get sporty and comfortable.
>
> Depending on what bar you want to use and how upright you want to be, a 
> more cruiser-ish frame with a longer top tube like the Atlantis or 
> Appaloosa could be preferable to a Hillborne or Hilsen. Or, if an 
> Albastache or moustache bar is in your future, vice versa. I'd call Riv, 
> they'll ask you better questions than me :)
>
> Pete
> Arlington, VA
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 10:38:50 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> I'm ready to get a riv bike but haven't ridden one yet. Bikes I've owned 
>> and emulated rive bikes with are the following.
>>
>> MB-1  26"
>> MB-0. 26"
>> Surly LTH.  26"
>> EBISU All purpose 650b
>> Salsa ala carte26"
>> 84 stump jumper 26"
>> 80s univega. 26"
>>
>> Anyone have experience with same bikes? Do the rivs handle like 80s mt 
>> conversations?  after years of riding I'm beginning to get some neck pain 
>> from drop bars. So really an upright sporty rando with day loads up diablo. 
>> Haven't decided what model yet.
>>
>> Thanks 
>> Sam
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm ready

[Pete B]

Is there a particular handlebar you'd like to use? If you are looking for 
an upright but sporty ride, you may want to choose a Riv frame that allows 
you to lean forward even with a swept back handlebar. I'm not talking super 
aggressive position, I'm talking touring-bike-with-drop bars lean forward.

For example,  I have a Rosco Bubbe Road with a sloping top tube and tall 
headtube that makes it very easy to get moustache and drop bars close and 
comfortable. It's a lot like a SimpleOne, and uses that fork. However, 
anything more swept back than an Albatross bar would probably require a 
very long stem for me to get sporty and comfortable.

Depending on what bar you want to use and how upright you want to be, a 
more cruiser-ish frame with a longer top tube like the Atlantis or 
Appaloosa could be preferable to a Hillborne or Hilsen. Or, if an 
Albastache or moustache bar is in your future, vice versa. I'd call Riv, 
they'll ask you better questions than me :)

Pete
Arlington, VA
On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 10:38:50 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:

> I'm ready to get a riv bike but haven't ridden one yet. Bikes I've owned 
> and emulated rive bikes with are the following.
>
> MB-1  26"
> MB-0. 26"
> Surly LTH.  26"
> EBISU All purpose 650b
> Salsa ala carte26"
> 84 stump jumper 26"
> 80s univega. 26"
>
> Anyone have experience with same bikes? Do the rivs handle like 80s mt 
> conversations?  after years of riding I'm beginning to get some neck pain 
> from drop bars. So really an upright sporty rando with day loads up diablo. 
> Haven't decided what model yet.
>
> Thanks 
> Sam
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Den John]

That's probably also why a lot of vintage MTBs make better gravel bikes
than most actual gravel bikes :-)

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 14:25, Mark Roland  wrote:

> And as you know, photos rarely capture the significance of the grade.
> Those late 80s geos are basically like small, flat bar road bikes with a
> bit fatter tires. A geo responsible for popularizing if not coining the
> term "endo", so not terribly confidence-inspiring.
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 7:58:26 AM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks Mark. That middle photo looks just like a descent I rode a lot in
>> the summer here in Belgium. Wasn't from 500m elevation though :-)
>> I rode it on a late 80s vintage MTB with no QR, so that was interesting.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Johnny
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 13:49, Mark Roland  wrote:
>>
>>> Johnny wrote:
>>> *do the long stays give more traction and stability and a more laid back
>>> position so it's not necessary to hang off the back of the saddle so much? *
>>>
>>> Short answer: In my experience and opinion, the longer stays contribute
>>> to a more stable descent.
>>>
>>> I am not an expert gonzo descender, but I ride most of my bicycles up
>>> the Mount Beacon service road. It is steep in places and very steep in
>>> other places, with rutty, rocky, loose dirt conditions most of the year.
>>> You will quickly build up a serious amount of speed without judicious
>>> scrubbing with the brakes.
>>>
>>> While I don't have a dropper post on any of my bikes, or suspension for
>>> that matter, a number of bikes I've gone down on have the seat post quick
>>> release capability, and when I remember, I put the seatpost down, which
>>> puts you in a better control position and makes a different.
>>>
>>> With my Clem Ls and my Susie,  I don't have the quick release. Yet the
>>> downhills feel more manageable and my body does not feel super pitched
>>> forward as on a NORBA geo or even a traditional 80s mtb, with lower bars.
>>> As you surmise, the more laid back position on the bike helps. You also
>>> feel the bumps and moguls a bit less with the longer end--you're not
>>> sitting right at the back of the bus. This is on a road with only a couple
>>> of sharp turns and lots of straightaway. And it may be that adding a
>>> dropper would make a Hillibike even more pleasant on a descent. But unless
>>> you are doing lots of steep, long, or tricky downhills on sketchy stuff,
>>> I'm not sure it would be needed.
>>>
>>> My first Clementine/Clem L at the top.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_0285(2).JPG]
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_0280.JPG]
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_20201023_080135686(2).jpg]
>>> Susie about to head down.
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Patrick Cronin]

Hugh,

Here's a quick observation from master wheel builder Bill Mould, who 
inspected my abused White Industries MI5/Velocity Dyad wheelset:

Bill took a magnifying glass to each and every spoke hole and nipple and 
found significant flaking and cracks. He recommended replacing the rim. 
Next, he said, "let's see about this hub." He spun it in his hands and 
said, "Here, you hold this wheel while I spin it and then we'll swap it 
with this wheel over here with a brand new MI5 hub." There was no 
observable difference in feel. He then took the old wheel and placed it on 
the truing stand and spun it slowly; we laughed as it just kept on turning, 
refusing to stop. He smiled and said, "arguably the best hub ever made."

Spend the money on the White Industries hub. 

-Patrick



On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:35:02 AM UTC-5 Steve Cole wrote:

> Hugh,  You and I seem to share the same aesthetic.  About a year ago, I 
> purchased a long chain stay Atlantis.  I also wanted silver hubs and rims. 
>  I worked with James and Candice, the great folks at Analog Cycles, to make 
> my dream bike.  It has a James-recommended silver 36H Bitex BX103R rear hub 
> fitted to a 9 cog cassette, a silver  Schmidt SON Deluxe Wide body QR 32H 
> Front Hub, Velocity Quill Rims, and Sapim Race spokes.  These wheels are 
> shod with Rene Horse 700C x 55 Antelope Hill gum wall tires.  I love my 
> wheels, not to mention my Atlantis. I would not change a thing.  Not 
> inexpensive, but I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the 
> remainder of my riding.  Good luck,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>>
>>> Best, 
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Hugh,

 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah 
 as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 

 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer 
 a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 
> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 
> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very 
> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have 
> minimal resistance when spinning them in the 

[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[lconley]

Any Velocity rim can be had in silver, they are simply not stocked in 
silver, you can also get polished or many custom colors. You can also get 
them in any drilling. It is only necessary to wait for the next production 
run. I have sets of polished silver 650B Cliffhangers in 40 spoke on my 
Bombadil and 48 spoke on my "Keven's" Bike (cargo bike). You just need to 
contact Velocity directly or have your wheelbuilder do it. I generally 
build my own, but also have had Peter White and Hands on Wheels build them. 
Their wheels are better than mine, but I am getting better.

I have had a set VO touring hubs - 9 speed shimano, for several year and 
have had no problems.

Laing 
Delray Beach FL

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Mark Roland]

And as you know, photos rarely capture the significance of the grade. Those 
late 80s geos are basically like small, flat bar road bikes with a bit 
fatter tires. A geo responsible for popularizing if not coining the term 
"endo", so not terribly confidence-inspiring. 

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 7:58:26 AM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks Mark. That middle photo looks just like a descent I rode a lot in 
> the summer here in Belgium. Wasn't from 500m elevation though :-)
> I rode it on a late 80s vintage MTB with no QR, so that was interesting. 
>
> Cheers,
> Johnny
>
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 13:49, Mark Roland  wrote:
>
>> Johnny wrote: 
>> *do the long stays give more traction and stability and a more laid back 
>> position so it's not necessary to hang off the back of the saddle so much? *
>>
>> Short answer: In my experience and opinion, the longer stays contribute 
>> to a more stable descent.
>>
>> I am not an expert gonzo descender, but I ride most of my bicycles up the 
>> Mount Beacon service road. It is steep in places and very steep in other 
>> places, with rutty, rocky, loose dirt conditions most of the year. You will 
>> quickly build up a serious amount of speed without judicious scrubbing with 
>> the brakes.
>>
>> While I don't have a dropper post on any of my bikes, or suspension for 
>> that matter, a number of bikes I've gone down on have the seat post quick 
>> release capability, and when I remember, I put the seatpost down, which 
>> puts you in a better control position and makes a different.
>>
>> With my Clem Ls and my Susie,  I don't have the quick release. Yet the 
>> downhills feel more manageable and my body does not feel super pitched 
>> forward as on a NORBA geo or even a traditional 80s mtb, with lower bars. 
>> As you surmise, the more laid back position on the bike helps. You also 
>> feel the bumps and moguls a bit less with the longer end--you're not 
>> sitting right at the back of the bus. This is on a road with only a couple 
>> of sharp turns and lots of straightaway. And it may be that adding a 
>> dropper would make a Hillibike even more pleasant on a descent. But unless 
>> you are doing lots of steep, long, or tricky downhills on sketchy stuff, 
>> I'm not sure it would be needed.
>>
>> My first Clementine/Clem L at the top.
>>
>> [image: IMG_0285(2).JPG]
>>
>> [image: IMG_0280.JPG]
>>
>> [image: IMG_20201023_080135686(2).jpg]
>> Susie about to head down.
>>
>> -- 
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Mkq0fTUm0vc/unsubscribe
>> .
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>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[ascpgh]

I like shiny silver as well. My 650B rando bike has a SON front hub and a 
Suzue Classica cassette rear with Pacenti Brevet rims and 650B x 42 BSPs.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:32:18 PM UTC-5 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do a 
> search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018 
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the 
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR 
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? Does 
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a 
> loud ratcheting noise? What were your initial impressions of the build 
> quality and then later impressions.
>
> It's my aesthetic, I just see my new to me Atlantis built with silver 
> shiny hubs otherwise I'd build my new wheels with a DT Swiss 350 rear hub 
> and be done. I'm considering a White Industries hub but that's close to 
> $200 more over the VO hub. Just debating whether the extra $$ is worth it? 
>
> I'm going with the Velocity Cliffhangers, wish they came in silver :( 
> Planning on running schwabe g ones in 2.25" evolutions for cush and speed. 
> If you have a recommendation on rims that will allow for tubeless, decent 
> tire profile in silver please lmk. FYI not going with the HED Belgian rims 
> at $165 nope! 
>
> I'm also looking for the Riv stem shifters currently out of stock on the 
> Riv Hq site. If anyone has a pair that they're willing to part with let me 
> know? 
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh in Sunny SoCal Los Angeles to be exact. 
>
> Since I'm honorable and might as well ask another question. I plan on 
> running aluminum albatross bars any recommendations for grips. My 
> preference is a easily removed grip like the Ergon which I have. Is there 
> an esi like grip that's removes simply?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crash Inspection Advice

[Mark Roland]

I believe it is the OP's wish to remove this thread. Meanwhile, while 
waiting for moderator, might be helpful if posters remove any comments that 
quote OP.

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 6:18:52 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> FWIW, and I mean that sincerely; my own approach, and certainly my own 
> predilections, are not those of anyone else.
>
> But I very deliberately take an agressive approach while riding a bicycle. 
> In particular, I ride toward the center of the lane when necessary, sit 
> tall, and look oncomers in the eye. I am quick to admonish, and quick to 
> yell loudly and gesture vehemently if I think it appropriate.
>
> This seems to have served me well, since I've not been attacked in all my 
> years of riding, though I've had some exciting verbal altercations.
>
> Once again, my point: I very deliberately ride proud.
>
> Now, I'm not a big man -- 5'10", 170, and I'm Asian to most white folk 
> (WASP father, Filipina mother), and I really thing many people look on 
> Asians as "easy." (They don't know the Malay "amok".) But I am really 
> convinced that riding "big" and not "small" makes one safer.
>
> I recall one instance very long ago, mid late '80s, on the Mount Vernon 
> trail, riding alone on a quiet Saturday afternoon, and stopping to watch 
> scullers on the Potomac. A group of teenagers, 14-16, came riding up on 
> bikes, eyeing me and muttering things like "get that bike" and generally 
> making predator signs. I looked them in the eyes, sat still, and they rode 
> on.
>
> Much later, say some 12 or 15 years ago, climbing slowly up the steep, 
> 1-mile Atrisco hill on the way back from work, a teenager with friends 
> riding along said, "I want that bike." I gave him the fish eye and kept 
> riding; he stayed put.
>
> Perhaps it was as Otto Von Bismarck said, "There is a special Providence 
> that watches over fools and drunks and Americans," or perhaps an angel was 
> doing over time (I do say a prayer before I ride, more worried about idiots 
> in cars texting on their phones that agressive punks), but alhamdulillah, 
> I've not been accosted in all the what, now 55 years of riding in urban 
> traffic (started age 11 in pre-digital, ex-Brit cantonment Bangalore, 
> riding from nascent Palace Orchards to St. Joseph's Jesuit preparatory 
> school on my 3/4 size Hero).
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 10:27 AM George Schick  wrote:
>
>> I've avoided opening this post all week since the title involved having a 
>> crash, but when I did finally open it and saw that it was caused by an 
>> attack I had to cringe.  I ride MUPs most of the time and have never had a 
>> close call or threatening encounter - though I have experienced rude 
>> behavior from some who ride as though there is no one else around.  But 
>> some of the paths do go through forest preserves and other remote areas 
>> where anything could happen.  One of the things I try to do is take a 
>> "minimalist" approach - that is, doing as much as (or as little as, 
>> depending on how you look at it) possible *not* to attract undue 
>> attention.  This includes wearing plain, unmarked T-shirts, etc.  There are 
>> extremes in the country's climate these days from both sides and if you're 
>> wearing certain colors, slogans, political or religious jargon, etc. it's 
>> possible to invoke the ire of someone who resents them.  From what I've 
>> read, people who bike in densely populated urban areas often get yelled at, 
>> cursed at, have objects thrown at them regardless of what their wearing 
>> simply because certain motorists (and even pedestrians) just don't like 
>> bikes in "their" traffic stream.  But that's an entirely different matter.
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 10:42:03 AM UTC-6 Mark Roland wrote:
>>
>>> While it doesn't hurt to be attentive to what is happening around you 
>>> (ear buds, anyone?) there is not much most of us would be willing or able 
>>> to do other than what we end up doing in the case that something were to 
>>> happen. In other words, unless you go to extremes--take a kung fu class, 
>>> apply for a weapon permit--you'll have to trust your instincts, and perhaps 
>>> the kindness of passersby.  In any case, constant conjecture of this 
>>> magnitude will not be rewarded.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 10:07:35 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 I have thought about this thread all week on every ride. 

 Firstly, Litho, how did your surgery go? You’ll be typing to us with 
 one hand or dictating, I imagine. I hope we hear from you! 

 Secondly, this thread has haunted me. All week it’s led me to think 
 What Would I Do I’ve never thought about being assaulted on a bike. 
 What would I do if I was Litho and found myself being pursued by a gang of 
 teenagers who were coming closer and closer to my rear wheel? What about 
 what Andy said - he perceived an attack and was able to mitigate it before 
 the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Mark Roland]

Johnny wrote: 
*do the long stays give more traction and stability and a more laid back 
position so it's not necessary to hang off the back of the saddle so much? *

Short answer: In my experience and opinion, the longer stays contribute to 
a more stable descent.

I am not an expert gonzo descender, but I ride most of my bicycles up the 
Mount Beacon service road. It is steep in places and very steep in other 
places, with rutty, rocky, loose dirt conditions most of the year. You will 
quickly build up a serious amount of speed without judicious scrubbing with 
the brakes.

While I don't have a dropper post on any of my bikes, or suspension for 
that matter, a number of bikes I've gone down on have the seat post quick 
release capability, and when I remember, I put the seatpost down, which 
puts you in a better control position and makes a different.

With my Clem Ls and my Susie,  I don't have the quick release. Yet the 
downhills feel more manageable and my body does not feel super pitched 
forward as on a NORBA geo or even a traditional 80s mtb, with lower bars. 
As you surmise, the more laid back position on the bike helps. You also 
feel the bumps and moguls a bit less with the longer end--you're not 
sitting right at the back of the bus. This is on a road with only a couple 
of sharp turns and lots of straightaway. And it may be that adding a 
dropper would make a Hillibike even more pleasant on a descent. But unless 
you are doing lots of steep, long, or tricky downhills on sketchy stuff, 
I'm not sure it would be needed.


On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 4:39:34 AM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Hey all,
>
> Not sure if this is on topic, but I wonder if the long chainstays on the 
> hillibikes makes dropper posts a bit redundant for this kind of bike?
> I.e. do the long stays give more traction and stability and a more laid 
> back position so it's not necessary to hang off the back of the saddle so 
> much?
> Or are the long stays more an advantage for climbing (as mentioned in some 
> posts above).
> I have a dropper post on one of my bikes and I do like it, but having one 
> less mechanical thing to service/go wrong would be nice. 
>
> Cheers,
> Johnny
> On Thursday, 4 February 2021 at 07:05:12 UTC+1 Matthew P wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>> You mentioned you ditched the pec deck. Care to give your opinion on it? 
>> I'm planning on making & using one or two.
>> Thanks.
>> -Matthew
>> on the fence about starting a (new) pec deck post/thread
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Grant is a notably competitive steep-climber.  His "philosophy" of short 
>>> periods of extreme exertion coupled with his tendency towards slow riding 
>>> makes ultra-steep-climbs his perfect activity.  Many of us RBWHQ visitors 
>>> know that if Grant doesn't have his hands full, he may just decide "Bill, 
>>> grab a bike, let's go" and take you on a climb that will make your lungs 
>>> jump out of your chest.  Hillibikes climb exceptionally well.  IF you put 
>>> bosco bars on a mainstream mountain bike with really short chainstays, THEN 
>>> you would have too-little weight on the front wheel and 'wheelie' on steep 
>>> climbs.  Lng chainstays keep your front wheel planted.  Also, climbing 
>>> a Grant-selected steep pitch will encourage you to grab your Boscos down as 
>>> low as you can to get more leverage over the pedals.  
>>>
>>> Hillibikes aren't for life risking decents and getting sick air, but 
>>> they are really good for aggressively conquering steep climbs.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 11:11:02 AM UTC-8 Christopher Cote 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I think part of it is your physical proportions and fit. I tend toward 
 a shorter torso and longer legs, so I'm naturally going to have less 
 weight 
 on the front wheel, especially with a long front-center.

 I didn't mean to go so far as to say that the Susie (sorry for the 
 misspelling earlier) was designed to make you get off and walk, but with 
 Grant's philosophy, I just think it's unlikely he's designed the bike to 
 "conquer the terrain". 

 Chris


 On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 6:06:18 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> I guess I am either blessed or cursed with less sensitivity in these 
> matters.  I tend to ride the same roads and trails 80 percent (or more) 
> of 
> the time, and over the years I've ridden them with lots of different 
> bikes 
> with lots of different geometries and setups.  I'm not sure exactly  what 
> handling characteristic is under discussion, but on my normal single 
> track 
> trails, I don't notice a lack of bite from the front tire of the Susie. 
> The 
> Klunker bar does not overly entice one into aggressive riding, but I'll 
> dive into a dirt turn at speed now and then, no problem. When going up a 
> challenging 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Steve Cole]

Hugh,  You and I seem to share the same aesthetic.  About a year ago, I 
purchased a long chain stay Atlantis.  I also wanted silver hubs and rims. 
 I worked with James and Candice, the great folks at Analog Cycles, to make 
my dream bike.  It has a James-recommended silver 36H Bitex BX103R rear hub 
fitted to a 9 cog cassette, a silver  Schmidt SON Deluxe Wide body QR 32H 
Front Hub, Velocity Quill Rims, and Sapim Race spokes.  These wheels are 
shod with Rene Horse 700C x 55 Antelope Hill gum wall tires.  I love my 
wheels, not to mention my Atlantis. I would not change a thing.  Not 
inexpensive, but I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the 
remainder of my riding.  Good luck,

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:

> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>
>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
>> happy to listen/hear.
>>
>> Best, 
>>
>> ~Hugh
>>
>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Hugh,
>>>
>>> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah 
>>> as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
>>> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
>>> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
>>> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
>>> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
>>> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
>>> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>>>
>>> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
>>> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
>>> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>>>
 The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 
 touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 
 G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very 
 easily tubeless using velocity rim tape. 

 I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have 
 minimal resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub 
 as medium loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being 
 unusually loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that 
 makes you focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet 
 it down some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore 
 off and I stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me. 

 Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light 
 touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service 
 and 
 the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace 
 them). 
 All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub. 
 Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower 
 price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr 
 wheelset, I'd choose these hubs 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Fullylugged]

Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
$61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Ben,
>
> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>
> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
> happy to listen/hear.
>
> Best, 
>
> ~Hugh
>
> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>
>> Hi Hugh,
>>
>> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as 
>> you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 
>>
>> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a 
>> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
>> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
>> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
>> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
>> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
>> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>>
>> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
>> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
>> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>>
>>> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring 
>>> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One 
>>> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily 
>>> tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>>>
>>> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal 
>>> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium 
>>> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually 
>>> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you 
>>> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down 
>>> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I 
>>> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me. 
>>>
>>> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light 
>>> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and 
>>> the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them). 
>>> All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub. 
>>> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower 
>>> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr 
>>> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent 
>>> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
>>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Hi Michael,

 Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the 
 A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm 

 https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

 And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the 
 schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.

 https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

 I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?

 Best Regards,

 Hugh

 On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:

> Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a 
> brake track.
> I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track 

Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Den John]

Hey all,

Not sure if this is on topic, but I wonder if the long chainstays on the 
hillibikes makes dropper posts a bit redundant for this kind of bike?
I.e. do the long stays give more traction and stability and a more laid 
back position so it's not necessary to hang off the back of the saddle so 
much?
Or are the long stays more an advantage for climbing (as mentioned in some 
posts above).
I have a dropper post on one of my bikes and I do like it, but having one 
less mechanical thing to service/go wrong would be nice. 

Cheers,
Johnny
On Thursday, 4 February 2021 at 07:05:12 UTC+1 Matthew P wrote:

> Andrew,
> You mentioned you ditched the pec deck. Care to give your opinion on it? 
> I'm planning on making & using one or two.
> Thanks.
> -Matthew
> on the fence about starting a (new) pec deck post/thread
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Grant is a notably competitive steep-climber.  His "philosophy" of short 
>> periods of extreme exertion coupled with his tendency towards slow riding 
>> makes ultra-steep-climbs his perfect activity.  Many of us RBWHQ visitors 
>> know that if Grant doesn't have his hands full, he may just decide "Bill, 
>> grab a bike, let's go" and take you on a climb that will make your lungs 
>> jump out of your chest.  Hillibikes climb exceptionally well.  IF you put 
>> bosco bars on a mainstream mountain bike with really short chainstays, THEN 
>> you would have too-little weight on the front wheel and 'wheelie' on steep 
>> climbs.  Lng chainstays keep your front wheel planted.  Also, climbing 
>> a Grant-selected steep pitch will encourage you to grab your Boscos down as 
>> low as you can to get more leverage over the pedals.  
>>
>> Hillibikes aren't for life risking decents and getting sick air, but they 
>> are really good for aggressively conquering steep climbs.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 11:11:02 AM UTC-8 Christopher Cote 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think part of it is your physical proportions and fit. I tend toward a 
>>> shorter torso and longer legs, so I'm naturally going to have less weight 
>>> on the front wheel, especially with a long front-center.
>>>
>>> I didn't mean to go so far as to say that the Susie (sorry for the 
>>> misspelling earlier) was designed to make you get off and walk, but with 
>>> Grant's philosophy, I just think it's unlikely he's designed the bike to 
>>> "conquer the terrain". 
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 6:06:18 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 I guess I am either blessed or cursed with less sensitivity in these 
 matters.  I tend to ride the same roads and trails 80 percent (or more) of 
 the time, and over the years I've ridden them with lots of different bikes 
 with lots of different geometries and setups.  I'm not sure exactly  what 
 handling characteristic is under discussion, but on my normal single track 
 trails, I don't notice a lack of bite from the front tire of the Susie. 
 The 
 Klunker bar does not overly entice one into aggressive riding, but I'll 
 dive into a dirt turn at speed now and then, no problem. When going up a 
 challenging hill, yup, the bike will wander a bit. In my experience, 
 whatever the bike, unless you are practically hammering out of the saddle, 
 you are going to experience some of that at 3-4mph on a sick dirt and rock 
 grade.

 The Susie per se is not designed to make you walk. If I were going to 
 be going out into  the landscape aggressively, I could easily choose bars 
 that would get me level with the saddle on my Large. If I wanted more 
 aggression, I could put them on my Medium Clem L. I'm not sure it is 
 terribly helpful to compare the Hillibike geometries to current offerings 
 from the big boys.They share much more of a bloodline with my 1984 Trek 
 830, able to traverse hill and dale, rock and road, with equal aplomb, but 
 with the ability to also get more comfortable via high head tube and 
 longer 
 chainstays and small refinements in the geometry. And bigger wheels.

 On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 2:35:50 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:

> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 12:28:41 PM UTC-7 Christopher Cote 
> wrote:
>
>> I haven't ridden a Gus or Suzie, but I have had a similar experience 
>> on more conventional MTBs. If I set the bars up high and back for 
>> ultimate 
>> comfort, there's not enough weight on the front tire to "bite" into the 
>> terrain, and handling suffers, IMO. If you're just tootling along, the 
>> sit 
>> up and beg position is fine, but if you're interested in riding 
>> technical 
>> trails or in an aggressive manner, you need a more aggressive position. 
>> Given Grant's philosophy that riders should get off and walk more, I 
>> think 
>> that is reflected in 

Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Hugh Smitham]

Ben,

You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.

Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to
read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief
which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires
and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on
cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've
had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm
rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm.
As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook
that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per
rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall
where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be
wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm
happy to listen/hear.

Best,

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
moving.” ― Albert Einstein






On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:

> Hi Hugh,
>
> Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah as
> you found I think you're choices in silver are limited.
>
> I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer a
> counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle
> Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect
> handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject
> called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me)
> example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity
> Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.
>
> Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the
> best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm
> sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:
>
>> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO touring
>> hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 G-One
>> speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very easily
>> tubeless using velocity rim tape.
>>
>> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have minimal
>> resistance when spinning them in the stand. I'd rate the free hub as medium
>> loudness. It's not a hub noise that I would "notice" as being unusually
>> loud if that makes sense. No high pitched buzz or anything that makes you
>> focus on it. But it's definitely not Shimano quiet. I did quiet it down
>> some using some Dumonde Tech free hub grease but the effect wore off and I
>> stopped reapplying it as the hub noise doesn't really bother me.
>>
>> Hubs have been problem free for 3 years of Seattle commuting/light
>> touring and off-road riding. The free hub is incredibly easy to service and
>> the bearings are easy to access too (though I haven't had to replace them).
>> All in all I think it's a great value for a nice looking, no nonsense hub.
>> Can't argue with the quality of White, but if you're looking for a lower
>> price point the VO may be a great option. If I needed another 135 qr
>> wheelset, I'd choose these hubs again, especially with the excellent
>> customer support that I've had from VO in the past.
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 8:47:47 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> Here are the specs for the Cliffhangers and A23's. You'll notice the
>>> A23's optimal max tire width is 35mm
>>>
>>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>>
>>> And the cliffhanger optimal tire widths are between 45mm and 65mm the
>>> schwabe g1's are 2.25 or approximately 56 mm.
>>>
>>> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>>
>>> I imagine your going to run a narrower tire?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 8:33 PM velomann  wrote:
>>>
 Velocity A-23 rims come in silver, are tubeless compatible, and have a
 brake track.
 I have a pir I'm going to build up for my Sam as soon as I track down
 the right hubs.

 Mike M

 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:32:18 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> So as not to offend any long-term members on this list I did first do
> a search and did not find an answer to my question? I believe back in 2018
> William Henderson in PDX after an accident had a wheel set built with the
> same hubs I'm considering, if he could chime in that would be excellent.
>
> On with the question,
>
> Does anybody have experience with the Velo Orange Grand Cru 135mm QR
> Shimano hub? Specifically, has it held up over time? How does it feel? 
> Does
> it spin freely? How does it sound? Meaning is it silent or does it have a
> loud