Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Michael Moore, Jr.]

For me Paul's breaks made sense on my Rivendell Bleriot and Kona Explosif.
For these reasons. Your reasons may vary. Once I get a bike the way I like
it I leave it alone for years, so it's basically a one time expense
for something like brakes and levers (I think I have 17 years on the
Explosif and 16 on the Bleriot, but I could be off by a year or two). I
like supporting small California businesses when I can as I live in a small
rural California community. Jobs matter. They look great, and function
well. I could afford them. Could I have gone with a cheaper alternative and
been happy? Of course, but I also like a little bling on the bike that only
bike people understand.


--
Michael Moore, Jr.
Humboldt County


On Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 6:50 PM  wrote:

> I have never used any of Paul’s brakes surprisingly. It’s surprising
> because I have no problem spending money on things that are better/more
> advanced than what I need.
>
> For me, I think (maybe wrongly) that I can get 90% of the braking that
> Paul’s would provide at a fraction of the cost by using other brakes. I
> have Avid linear pull brakes on my Hubbuhubbuh and have no problem stopping
> quickly when needed.
>
> The aesthetics are also a factor. The industrial look of most of Paul’s
> brakes looks out of place on more traditional bikes to me.
>
> I think one day I’lll buy a set of Klampers to test them out. I don’t
> think they will be a revelation compared to the TRP Spykes they would
> replace on the bike I have in mind but they will definitely look better.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 25, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Bill Fulford 
> wrote:
>
> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with
> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Mullins]

The Paul Mini Motos on my Sam feel like disc brakes without the modulation. 
They stop almost too good. I had to loosen the cables to the point where the 
levers almost bottoms out so I don’t lock the wheels up so easily when riding 
on dirt. The Deore XT V-brakes on my Rosco feel like mush compared to them. I’m 
sure the Kool Stop pads on the Paul’s play a part. The Mini-Motos definitely 
feel more solid though. 

> On Sep 25, 2022, at 9:18 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> The Phil cache from the '70s is an excellent analogy to how Paul lands for 
> me: I was fascinated by Paul parts - especially the rear derailleur - during 
> the CNC mountain bike era in the '90s (and still have my BikePro catalogue to 
> show for it). Later as an older dude I was finally able to afford it and here 
> we are. Are Paul parts necessary? No. Does everyone love their CNC look? Also 
> no. I love em and I got em! 
> 
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 9:00:05 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>> In my opinion, Paul componentry is like the new Phil Wood of the 20th 
>> century. When Phil Wood came out with their hubs in the early '70's, it was 
>> THE thing to admire and buy.
>>  
>> I personally am unable to purchase Paul componentry. They are very much 
>> beyond my budget. I like Dia-Compe componentry a lot. They are good quality 
>> company that is been around for decades.
>> 
>> Waiting on a pair of Dia-Compe SS-6 silver brakes levers and Dia-Compe 
>> silver 980 cantilever breads in the mail to upgrade on my Clem Smith Jr. "L".
>> 
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:50:48 PM UTC-7 Robert Tilley wrote:
>>> I have never used any of Paul’s brakes surprisingly. It’s surprising 
>>> because I have no problem spending money on things that are better/more 
>>> advanced than what I need. 
>>> 
>>> For me, I think (maybe wrongly) that I can get 90% of the braking that 
>>> Paul’s would provide at a fraction of the cost by using other brakes. I 
>>> have Avid linear pull brakes on my Hubbuhubbuh and have no problem stopping 
>>> quickly when needed.  
>>> 
>>> The aesthetics are also a factor. The industrial look of most of Paul’s 
>>> brakes looks out of place on more traditional bikes to me.
>>> 
>>> I think one day I’lll buy a set of Klampers to test them out. I don’t think 
>>> they will be a revelation compared to the TRP Spykes they would replace on 
>>> the bike I have in mind but they will definitely look better.
>>> 
>>> Robert Tilley
>>> San Diego, CA
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Sep 25, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Bill Fulford  wrote:
> 
 I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read 
 later that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to 
 spend. So before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering 
 how folks feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull 
 brake with love levers. Are they worth it?
>>> 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> 
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2acd6551-d910-45d6-ad37-7093ae74820an%40googlegroups.com.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thank you Rivendell

[Patrick Moore]

I've found friction shifting 10 as easy and precise with the right setups
as friction shifting 7 or 8, if not easier and more precise.

My experience bears on a very particular setup for 10, though: cogs more or
less in series, Suntour barcons (versus at least Silver 1s), short cage (8
sp) rd, close ratio cassette (but all my 7s and 8s and 9s were close ratio
too), and 11 speed chain.

I'll bet that the circa 2010 short cage Microshift rd on my Fargo some 9-10
years ago would shift this setup even better, but that was blown up by a
stick when on a dirt ride on my Fargo.

Oh, and over 20 years ago, but same experience with Retrofriction dt
shifters and close ratio Am Classic 10 speed casettes pulling same DA 7401
or 7402 rd: again, wonderfully crisp and precise shifting. But I actually
prefer the barcons because they require far less lever pull (about 90* or
just a bit more for 10 cogs).

On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 3:43 PM R Shannon  wrote:

> Hello Doug,
>
> Friction shifting (dt and bar end) has been my only method of changing
> gears with 7 and 8 speed cogs on my three bikes for so long that it feels
> natural and intuitive. I guess if I had more variety in my bikes/
> drivetrains i.e. 9-11 cogs, index shifting my experience might be different.
>
> Hope that helps.
> - Rich
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 22, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Doug H.  wrote:
>
> Thank you Rich. The description of shifting on Rivendell's website makes
> sense to me and I don't think I need a 9 speed cassette as I don't shift
> often to maintain a certain cadence. The one thing I'm still getting used
> to with friction shifting is that not every gear change requires as equal
> amount if shifter lever movement so that I imagine having only 7 gears in
> the rear will help facilitate muscle memory for the movement in various
> gears. Do you notice this as well when friction shifting?
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:34:55 AM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Hi Doug!
>>
>> As a fellow Dylan fan I offer my congratulations. I just installed a Jim
>> 7 speed cassette; I'm very pleased. I hope your setup works as well too.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:25:29 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed! That was a nice little surprise. I honestly thought maybe I
>>> hadn’t quite followed the contest directions to a “t”.
>>>
>>> I purchased some Nitto stuff; some bar plugs, and a lamp holder for my
>>> Edelux light I purchased from a fellow forum member.
>>>
>>> On Sep 21, 2022, at 8:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> I got one, too, and one for the "name the author" contest. I thought
>>> I'd answered wrong or they'd forgotten about the whole idea! Now what am I
>>> gonna buy... 🤔
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 5:09:28 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Rivendell recently posed a question on Instagram with a $20 reward for
 those who answered correctly. As a Bob Dylan fan I was able to answer
 correctly and just received my reward! I ordered a mini-triangle, two rolls
 of Newbaum tape and a 7 speed Jim cassette (11-36) to try on my Clem. I
 will be going from 2x9 to 2x7. I am hoping the friction shifting will be
 even better along with better chain lines. We shall see.


 Doug (Blowin' In the Wind)
 Athens, Ga

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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[John Dewey]

Eric, et. al.:

I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a bunch 
of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to replace 
any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all Dura-Ace 
9 speed mounted on DT.

All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached. I 
don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the road—so 
there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image that 
giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially under 
load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know that's 
Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.

The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of dyslexia 
as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't go back 
and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you can always 
remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems. 

With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and will 
look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/dateposted-public/

Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is that 
when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to relax 
the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes some 
sense to me.

BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo





On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>
> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to 
> lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes 
> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used 
> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they 
> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>
> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in pedaling 
> pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier). That’s 
> not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need to 
> grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased out 
> … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that mostly 
> prizes conformity.
>
> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride almost 
> exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>
> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one before 
> and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>
> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own production 
> low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The first one I 
> picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent pulley cage, some 
> of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks ago. 
>
> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
> model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, 
> long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of 
> housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite 
> model, cosmetically. I like it, too. 
>
> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting 
> into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my 
> Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's 
> wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in 
> the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell 
> brifter style. 
>
> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from 
> me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. That made 
> sense. Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit of 
> getting used to but the action required is so light that it's not a problem 
> so far. 
>
> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing and 
> experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer bumping me to 
> an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. 
>
> One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why Grant and Rivendell 
> want to make this happen and go through so much trouble and expense. It is 
> quite a complicated undertaking. It seems if you're into low-normal 
> derailers they're out there if you look hard enough and have some patience. 
> Perhaps it's just what they do and what they're about. They want something 
> to exist that has gone out of production, they 

Re: [RBW] Celebrating Triangulation

[shopmonkey 39]

Great build in that Bombadil! Hope you kept those super fresh cranks. 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 4:29:07 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> My practical side says those look really hard to clean. 
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022, Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA <
> martin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've always liked but never ridden a Moulton. The Space Frame concept is 
>> appealing on a number of levels, and the spin offs are many - some a little 
>> excessive IMHO. Fun to see how people are thinking about frames, structure, 
>> materials and assembly techniques. Here are just a few I've run across that 
>> got my attention:
>>
>> Starting with the Moulton classic
>> [image: 43e339da98ee9cc2b1c1799047bcbce1.jpeg]
>>
>> This one a titanium riveted erector set style from BME Design
>> [image: e7c56bb57935311f0a1574a3fe6e3f1e.jpeg]
>>
>> Here's the full view
>> [image: 0ceea0e490d7a78b1eb2eff691d507b8.jpeg]
>> It's not easy being green - especially if you are the builder...
>> [image: ff9068c50ab4db07256342404ef48b4d.jpeg]
>> Another BME creation - carbon this time[image: 
>> 6cee7b5562bc58ec48649553c2d66562.jpeg]
>> This last one is a little over the top...Wonder what the frame alone 
>> weighs?
>> [image: fb92e58ad355408ada73e7c27a6084f5.jpeg]
>>
>> Not sure if any of these beats a classic diamond frame in terms of 
>> elegance, but I appreciate the effort that is evident in all of them. 
>> Please add your favorites if the mood strikes. 
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[John Dewey]

Last M760 RR data point — looking back at my old bike pix, at least one of 
my reverse-normal M760s has been hard-at-work for 9 years. Was mounted in 
2013 for sure, maybe just a bit earlier. 

Jock Dewey
On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:

> Eric, et. al.:
>
> I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a bunch 
> of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to replace 
> any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all Dura-Ace 
> 9 speed mounted on DT.
>
> All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached. I 
> don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the road—so 
> there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image that 
> giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially under 
> load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know that's 
> Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.
>
> The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of 
> dyslexia as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't 
> go back and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you can 
> always remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems. 
>
> With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and 
> will look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder: 
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/dateposted-public/
>
> Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is that 
> when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to relax 
> the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes some 
> sense to me.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
>> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>>
>> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting to 
>> lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
>> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* pushes 
>> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had used 
>> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs (they 
>> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
>> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>>
>> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in pedaling 
>> pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job easier). That’s 
>> not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and need to 
>> grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased out 
>> … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that mostly 
>> prizes conformity.
>>
>> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride almost 
>> exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one before 
>> and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>>
>> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own 
>> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The 
>> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent 
>> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few weeks 
>> ago. 
>>
>> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. This 
>> model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, shiny, 
>> long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short bit of 
>> housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this was his favorite 
>> model, cosmetically. I like it, too. 
>>
>> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like getting 
>> into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the derailer on my 
>> Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 cassette. It's 
>> wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are mounted in 
>> the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed or Rivendell 
>> brifter style. 
>>
>> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away from 
>> me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. That made 
>> sense. Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit of 
>> getting used to but the action required is so light that it's not a problem 
>> so far. 
>>
>> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing and 
>> experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer bumping me to 
>> an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. 
>>
>> One thing I can't get my

Re: [RBW] Celebrating Triangulation

[James Valiensi]

Hi,
I recently bought a Mouton. When I saw that PortaPed in AZ had one in orange, I 
jumped on it. They are hard to get and its rare to find the exact one you want 
in stock.
They ride really nice but are sensitive to tire selection. I get the best 
performance with Schwalbe One tires on it. 

> On Sep 24, 2022, at 7:30 AM, Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA 
>  wrote:
> I've always liked but never ridden a Moulton. The Space Frame concept is 
> appealing on a number of levels, and the spin offs are many - some a little 
> excessive IMHO. Fun to see how people are thinking about frames, structure, 
> materials and assembly techniques. Here are just a few I've run across that 
> got my attention:
> 
> Starting with the Moulton classic
> <43e339da98ee9cc2b1c1799047bcbce1.jpeg>
> 
> This one a titanium riveted erector set style from BME Design
> 
> 
> Here's the full view
> <0ceea0e490d7a78b1eb2eff691d507b8.jpeg>
> It's not easy being green - especially if you are the builder...
> 
> Another BME creation - carbon this time<6cee7b5562bc58ec48649553c2d66562.jpeg>
> This last one is a little over the top...Wonder what the frame alone weighs?
> 
> 
> Not sure if any of these beats a classic diamond frame in terms of elegance, 
> but I appreciate the effort that is evident in all of them. Please add your 
> favorites if the mood strikes. 
> 
> Marty
> 
> 
> -- 
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[RBW] Re: WTB: Riv "beater" or "beausage" bike/frame

[shopmonkey 39]

Big fan of RB-Ts and XO-2s.  Great to dream and put things out to the 
universe but also never hurts to have a back up plan 😃

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 8:22:14 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have a hard time accepting the first few dings on my bikes and therefor 
> I baby the crap out of them! I had an MB-2 as my "beater" bike but it was 
> way too nice to be a beater bike so I sold it to someone who grew up with a 
> father who had the exact same bike. I'd say it found its right home. 
>
> I remember a few months back that someone was selling an Atlantis up in WA 
> state for like $500. It looked like it had been sitting in the backyard for 
> years. I remember wishing I knew someone up there to go snag it for me as 
> I'd love a bike that wouldn't devastate me if it got stolen but is also 
> enjoyable to ride. I avoid riding in certain situations because of fear of 
> getting my nice shiny Riv stolen. 
>
> So I'm wondering if someone has a worn out, possibly needing repair, beat 
> to crap or otherwise not getting used Riv that would fit someone with an 85 
> PBH that they'd be willing to let go of for a steal! I'm not sure if a 
> "beater" Riv exists since the wear and tear is just beausage! Regardless, I 
> thought I'd through this out there. Thanks!
>

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Re: [RBW] Your preferred non-leather saddle

[shopmonkey 39]

C17 Carved is my preferred saddle. The have quite a bit more flex than the 
regular C17.  
If you don’t mind the generic look, old Advocet Touring saddles are pretty 
comfy. 

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 6:11:30 AM UTC-7 
jo...@chilmarkresearch.com wrote:

> Saddles are a very personal choice. What fits one may not fit another thus 
> I tread lightly into this topic. 
>
> Personally, been riding Fizik Alicantes for years. By far the most 
> comfortable saddle on my road bikes. Do have a Prologo nago on my MTB which 
> is quite nice as well. 
>
> Caveat: But what works for you is unlikely to be what works for me. 
>
> John
>
> On Sep 23, 2022, at 8:17 AM, Tom Wyland  wrote:
>
> I agree with Ben -- most saddles are arc-shaped and I like flat saddles. 
> I really liked my Velo Orange wide touring saddle. It's firm but not too 
> firm and has a rubbery texture. Bag loops are a plus. I find this saddle to 
> be not breathable enough for me (I don't wear bike shorts). My current 
> saddle is a Selle Anatomica H2.
>
> Tom
>
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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[James Valiensi]

Hi,
I’ve had many Paul Comp brakes. His brake levers are the best out there. Worth 
every penny and will last forever. 
I like his Motolite brakes and they are only thing better than Shimano V-brakes.
I’ve used the Racer brakes will good success, but they are not really 
improvement over normal caliper brakes. 
I don’t like any type of cantilever brakes, but the quality is there.

They cost a bunch of money if you buy them new. But in return you’ll have 
reliable brakes that will last as long as the bike frame will. I have his 
brakes over 15 years and they still work like new.

> On Sep 25, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Bill Fulford  wrote:
> 
> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with love 
> levers. Are they worth it?
> 
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[RBW] Re: My new 2021 Rivendell CLEM KADIDDLEHOPPER bicycle

[Kim Hetzel]

Hi Paul,

I thank-you for your compliments on my Clem "L". 

I seldom post on the IBOB LIst. Every once in awhile you can see me therein.
This the first time I have joined and posted on RBW LIST.  I felt reason to 
since I now own a RIvendell Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle. 

Thank-you your regards and wishing for my safety.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:48:24 AM UTC-7 Paul in Dallas wrote:

> Hi Kim.
>
> You really have that Clem set up nice!
>
> I think I remember you used to post on the ibob years back?
>
> I recall your name from somewhere.
> Maybe just on the riv list.
> Memory fades.
>
> Enjoy that terrific Clem and safe riding.
>
> Paul in Dallas 
>
>
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[J.C. Bryant]

As someone who likes to fiddle, I find the adjustability (read: fiddliness) 
enjoyable. I like supporting small businesses, especially in this industry 
and despite the bling factor, I do think Paul Components has some great 
ideas. Designing all their brakes to run the same V-brake pads is nice, as 
I'd only have to stock one type of pad for all my bikes. No return springs 
in levers = a simpler mechanism, one less thing to break down, and one 
fewer variable in adjusting brake feel or "snappiness". Once you get a hang 
of their coil spring setup, you're good to go. Cool colors are fun. I could 
also add readily-available replacement parts/fully-serviceable components 
as another plus, but a full "rebuild kit" for one brake is often times more 
expensive than a full set of new off-the-shelf V brakes or Cantis, but it's 
at least good to know you'll always be able to repair them, even if it 
costs a bit. I've got no doubt that my Paul brakes will surely outlast me, 
barring availability of replacement bits here and there.

This part is more aimed at the constantly-fiddling tinkerers like myself, 
but there's also resale-factor. You can get nearly a 100% return on your 
investment on the secondhand market, especially if you pick them up used. 
You can always pick up boutique parts to try them out and hock them for 
little-to-no-loss if they're not quite what you're looking for. That 
doesn't matter to everyone, but it's a plus for me.

The brakes and levers are great. The thumbies are cool if that's your cup 
of tea. Never tried the seatposts or stems, but I am happy with regular 
forged posts and quill stems and I usually look to Nitto for that sort of 
thing. At the end of the day, boutique components are only "worth it" if 
you like them and feel good about your purchase. Cheaper brakes will stop 
your bike just fine, just like a cheaper bike will still get you from point 
A to point B, but many folks willing to shell out for a Riv also don't mind 
paying the "Paul tax" to support a small brand and get a cool, shiny piece 
of gear to add to their bike. I say give it a go and if you ultimately 
can't cope with the expense, there's surely someone here who will happily 
take them off your hands.

-J.C.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:06:03 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Tire clearance is a thing, too, if you're looking at v-brakes. My 
> Motolites are quite tall and clear a 650B x 47 "gravel" tire with room left 
> for fenders. 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:00:19 PM UTC-7 Ryan M. wrote:
>
>> I really do think they are worth the money and when/if you ever decide to 
>> sell them you can recoup a lot of the cost back. 
>>
>> I've had the fortunate experience of using most of the current Paul 
>> brakes at one time or another and I do think they all work really well. 
>> They work even better when you pair them with a set of Paul levers too. I 
>> think the combination really makes the system work quite well and the 
>> levers are just strong and smooth. I'm a huge fan of the moto lites, 
>> Klampers, and the canti brakes, either the touring or retro models. It does 
>> take a little time to set up those cantis, but once dialed in they are 
>> great. 
>>
>> Worth it for you...well, that depends on the money. A set of Shimano xt v 
>> brakes and levers just isn't that much money and they will work fine. Pauls 
>> are just better and IMHO, easier to setup...and the motolites have an 
>> industry best disconnection system. 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:34:47 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, 
>>> have them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
>>> Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 
>>>
>>> I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
>>> weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
>>> expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
>>> that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
>>> levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 
>>>
>>> I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
>>> springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 
>>>
>>> In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
>>> touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
>>> those I do regret it. 
>>>
>>> For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
>>> about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 
>>>
>>> This video  is about the 
>>> coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
>>> quite interesting. 
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>>
 Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in 
 your value calculation for a particular set of c

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno substitute for a while...

[Christopher Rust]

Bill,

Gosh this thing looks fun.

Can I ask what decaleur you’re using? Looks like it clamps to the bar but
I’ve never seen one like that before.

Could I also ask how you bent the struts on that Nitto 32f evenly? Just a
vice and some measurements, maybe a protractor? Wondering if there’s any
trick to it.

I just bought the Crust Spark Rando fork (which appears to be the same as
yours and the other lightning bolts) for my 1985 Trek 520 (which is
basically the same geo as the Crust Canti LB) and I was hoping to use that
same rack.

Chris Rust
Dallas, TX

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 8:58 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> My Single Speed Crust Lightning Bolt build is essentially complete now.
> The same Flickr album has all the pictures from my Saturday activities:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720302216629
>
> On Saturday I built the wheels:
>   -Crust 650B Rims
>   -Sapim Double Butted Spokes (32, 3x) brass nipples
>   -Surly Ultra New fixed/free rear hub
>   -Kasai Dynamo front hub
>   -Rene Herse Juniper Ridge Tires (584x48 knobby)
>   -Schwalbe tubes
>
> Then when I had a rolling chassis, I took some final measurements to
> figure out where to cut the steerer.  The last couple shots in the album
> show that rolling chassis and the drive train detail.  I got clever with
> the dropout adjusters.  The frame comes with two 35mm long M4x0.7
> adjusters, which take a 2mm allen in the end.  One would use blue loctite
> to help it hold its position.  My gear change operation on my two-speed
> drivetrain involves loosening the drive side axlenut moving the chain from
> big to small and then small to big, and then tighten the drive side axle
> nut.  The non-drive side axle nut stays where it is.  It takes about 30
> seconds to "shift".  These adjusters, if I use them at all, would prevent
> the drive side of the rear hub from noodging forward during this shift
> operation.  So, I need to back that one off during the shift.  I didn't
> want to go fishing for a tiny 2mm allen during that move, so I replaced the
> drive side adjuster with a nice serrated thumbscrew.  The left side has the
> job to stay put, so I left the original bolt and added a serrated thumb nut
> to act as a lock nut.  I think it's a pretty pro set up.
>
> After I cut the fork I installed a set of vintage Shimano Deore XT
> cantilever brakes.  The original brake pads are still in there and good as
> new.  They are quite chunky (chonky) and take up most of the rim sidewall.
> I may swap them for some smooth post kool stop holders.  One the brakes
> were done, I just installed a front rack, dynamo lamp, my homemade
> decaleur, and wrapped the bars.  My spare King Kage inventory only had one
> Iris and one Titanium, so the cages don't match.  I'm not sure which one
> I'll replace.
>
> The second coat of shellac just went on.  After the sun rises I'll take a
> few more shots and then we can start riding the thing.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 7:26:31 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> This is the Flickr Album where I will post all my build photos.  There
>> are a few unboxing shots in there already.
>>
>> Single Speed Rando | Flickr
>> 
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 6:21:23 AM UTC-7 Patch T wrote:
>>
>>> As always, I very much looking forward to this Bill Lindsay build.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:14:16 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I had been searching for quite a while for a single speed that enabled
 some derailer-less gear flexibility.  On one hand I searched for a 58cm
 Quickbeam or SimpleONE.  On the other hand I was/am waiting on the
 RoadUNO.  I was/am a huge fan of Rivendells rear dropouts with the angle
 that allows a significant gear change while maintaining brake adjustment.

 In an absolutely perfect world, my Size Large singlespeed would also
 have been 650B (for fat tires and no TCO).  While I'm sitting here in
 fantasy-land, I also would have waved my magic wand to have the bike be
 belt-compatible, and would allow brakes, but have a discreet way to NOT run
 brakes.

 Over the last 18 months or so, I've been working with placeholders for
 these things.  I bought a Crust Michigan Man right when they were released
 and set it up as a strictly 1-speed fixie in my office in Wayne County,
 Michigan.  Will at Riv also has a Michigan Man.  I also managed to acquire
 a 58cm Quickbeam, and that is now in my garage as a 8-speed single speed.
 I slowly acquired some of the parts for a 650B custom, including a pair of
 Rivendell dropouts.  I even had preliminary conversations with a local
 builder, and have a tentative spot on his enormous waiting list.

 Then, totally by surprise, a new contender appeared.  Crust released a
 new variant of their single speed Li

Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

['Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Frankly, this thread is a great discussion full of sound points...educational

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 7:50 PM, rltil...@gmail.com 
wrote:   I have never used any of Paul’s brakes surprisingly. It’s surprising 
because I have no problem spending money on things that are better/more 
advanced than what I need. 
For me, I think (maybe wrongly) that I can get 90% of the braking that Paul’s 
would provide at a fraction of the cost by using other brakes. I have Avid 
linear pull brakes on my Hubbuhubbuh and have no problem stopping quickly when 
needed.  
The aesthetics are also a factor. The industrial look of most of Paul’s brakes 
looks out of place on more traditional bikes to me.
I think one day I’lll buy a set of Klampers to test them out. I don’t think 
they will be a revelation compared to the TRP Spykes they would replace on the 
bike I have in mind but they will definitely look better.
Robert TilleySan Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Bill Fulford  wrote:



I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks feel 
about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with love levers. 
Are they worth it?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Dan Leahul]

I'm going on my ninth year of owning my Paul Racers. I have no doubts that
they'll last me my cycling lifetime. They are clever, overbuilt, beautiful
brakes. Using these in their long reach context, they offer many times over
more braking power and braking feel than anything else out there (r559, Dia
Compe, etc). A few hundred dollars for decades of blissful braking doesn't
seem like that bad of a deal, unless you're working with a extreme budget.

Seems odd to have to convince a Rivendell owner the value of Paul
Components! The two companies seem very similar in terms of offerings and
ethos.

I say buy them and never look back.

Dan in Canada 🇨🇦

On Sun., Sep. 25, 2022, 5:51 p.m. Joe Bernard,  wrote:

> Yes he should buy what he wants, my answer is my experience and how I feel
> about it. It's also based on the budget I was working with a couple years
> ago, I'm not currently operating with Paul money! 🤑
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:20:51 PM UTC-7 Minh wrote:
>
>> you're responses are going to be a little skewed by asking on this group,
>> as most of us have decided that 'worth it' are based on other things beside
>> $$ value.   from a functional standpoint you can get other brakes that are
>> more affordable and function nearly the same.   if you want to split the
>> difference consider forgoing the brakes and treating yourself to the
>> levers, they will bring you a little bit of joy everytime you touch them
>> and remind you about the person that gave you the gift.
>>
>> there's no wrong decision here, its really personal so do what feels
>> right to you regardless of what others may say, welcome and enjoy!
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:08:52 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:
>>
>>> They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and
>>> supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes,
>>> and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are
>>> absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that
>>> they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti
>>> brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind)
>>> intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the
>>> same way.
>>> And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to
>>> (within reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam
>>> Hillborne no problem (except removing the fenders.)
>>> I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener tool
>>> https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
>>> Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone
>>> wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really
>>> helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>>
 I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007
 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later
 that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So
 before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks
 feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with
 love levers. Are they worth it?
>>>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Patrick Moore]

As others have said, "worth it" depends on the user as much as the thing
itself. Even the question, "Is it worth it?" means different things at
different times to different people, all the way from "should I spend $$$
on this or spend it on Christmas presents?" to "do Paul cantilevers retard
my wheel at least x% more than Shimano or whatever cantilvers, and is the
x% margin worth the added price given my needs and budget?"

Paul cantis are worth it to me for the 2nd Chauncey because they stop well
(enough) but don't squeal or -- in the front with the mile-long head and
steerer tubes -- chatter that I got with Tektros.

Klampers might be worth (to me) the premium over Hy/Rds on the first
Matthews if they give similar braking power and modulation without
hydraulic fluid.

I have 1 bike where I'll spend $100s more on a single part just because
it's, frankly, a vanity bike and I want to have the prettiest and best on
it, I define "pretty." On my other bikes, my calculations are more, but
hardly entirely, practical.

In that connection: How do Klampers compare in performance to Hy/Rds? (I
see that the Klampers are about twice the cost of the Hy Rds.)

Speaking of worth, and mixing threads: the proposed new reverse pull
Rivendell rear derailleur certainly isn't "worth it" to me for any
practical benefit, but I would be tempted to buy one for $150 just because
it looks so interesting. Not nearly as pretty as a 7410 or 740n RD, but
nice looking and *interesting!*

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 11:52 AM Bill Fulford 
wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with
> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
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> 
> .
>


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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] ISO: Used 650b wheels (or rims)

[J.C. Bryant]

I've found myself in need of a spare set of rim brake 650b wheels for my 
wife's bike. She's happy running 38-42 tires, so I don't need anything 
crazy wide. Anything within the realm of A23s or Dyads would be fine. I 
don't have the budget to pick up a custom hand-built set right now and 
piecing together new components and building them up myself adds up with 
the current prices. I've got my eye on a set of A23s from Velomine, but 
those are still a bit more than I want to spend right now. I figured I'd 
reach out here to see if anyone has a used set they're looking to part with 
for the right price. I don't mind truing or building them up if anyone just 
has the spare parts. Figured it was worth a shot!

-J.C.

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Re: [RBW] YOUR BACK SHRINKING

[Kim Hetzel]

As we get older, the handlebars get higher and the gears get lower.

I used to ride in the drops for 40 years. It affected my posture a lot to 
the point that I had to retire my favorite bike and find a different one. I 
longed to ride upright.

At 67 years old, I now ride and feel very comfortable riding my new Clem 
Smith Jr. "L" bicycle. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 6:19:11 PM UTC-7 kwi...@weimar.edu wrote:

> Yes, I used to be 6’7” tall.  At 62, I am now one inch shorter.  I have 
> moved my saddle closer to the bars.  It immediately solved my aching lower 
> back on steep climbs.
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022, 'Charlie' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>>  I USED TO RIDE ON DROP BARS . ONE TIME I NOTICED I WAS RIDING ON THE 
>> TOPS ONLY.  SO I CHANGED TO UP BARS ( 3 SPEED BARS ) . I HAD LOST 2-3 
>> INCHES IN MY HEIGHT.
>> I NOW RIDE A SMALLER BIKE .
>> Charlie Petry JENERSVILLE PA
>>
>> -- 
>>
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>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

The Phil cache from the '70s is an excellent analogy to how Paul lands for 
me: I was fascinated by Paul parts - especially the rear derailleur - 
during the CNC mountain bike era in the '90s (and still have my BikePro 
catalogue to show for it). Later as an older dude I was finally able to 
afford it and here we are. Are Paul parts necessary? No. Does everyone love 
their CNC look? Also no. I love em and I got em! 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 9:00:05 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> In my opinion, Paul componentry is like the new Phil Wood of the 20th 
> century. When Phil Wood came out with their hubs in the early '70's, it was 
> THE thing to admire and buy.
>  
> I personally am unable to purchase Paul componentry. They are very much 
> beyond my budget. I like Dia-Compe componentry a lot. They are good quality 
> company that is been around for decades.
>
> Waiting on a pair of Dia-Compe SS-6 silver brakes levers and Dia-Compe 
> silver 980 cantilever breads in the mail to upgrade on my Clem Smith Jr. 
> "L".
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:50:48 PM UTC-7 Robert Tilley wrote:
>
>> I have never used any of Paul’s brakes surprisingly. It’s surprising 
>> because I have no problem spending money on things that are better/more 
>> advanced than what I need. 
>>
>> For me, I think (maybe wrongly) that I can get 90% of the braking that 
>> Paul’s would provide at a fraction of the cost by using other brakes. I 
>> have Avid linear pull brakes on my Hubbuhubbuh and have no problem stopping 
>> quickly when needed.  
>>
>> The aesthetics are also a factor. The industrial look of most of Paul’s 
>> brakes looks out of place on more traditional bikes to me.
>>
>> I think one day I’lll buy a set of Klampers to test them out. I don’t 
>> think they will be a revelation compared to the TRP Spykes they would 
>> replace on the bike I have in mind but they will definitely look better.
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Bill Fulford  wrote:
>>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it? 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Handlebars, Acorn Bag, Stem

[Matthew Williams]

Bump! Items still available:


Nitto Technomic stem
110mm x 22.2, for 25.4 bars
Used, in good condition
$50 + $15 shipping


Nitto B901R Bullmoose 
CroMo
Used, in excellent condition
$200 + $30 shipping


Acorn Tool Roll Bag
Black waxed canvas
Brand new, still in wrapper, never mounted
$80 + $15 shipping


Free local pickup in San Francisco Bay Area.
Shipping can be combined.


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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[rltilley]

I have never used any of Paul’s brakes surprisingly. It’s surprising because I have no problem spending money on things that are better/more advanced than what I need. For me, I think (maybe wrongly) that I can get 90% of the braking that Paul’s would provide at a fraction of the cost by using other brakes. I have Avid linear pull brakes on my Hubbuhubbuh and have no problem stopping quickly when needed.  The aesthetics are also a factor. The industrial look of most of Paul’s brakes looks out of place on more traditional bikes to me.I think one day I’lll buy a set of Klampers to test them out. I don’t think they will be a revelation compared to the TRP Spykes they would replace on the bike I have in mind but they will definitely look better.Robert TilleySan Diego, CASent from my iPhoneOn Sep 25, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Bill Fulford  wrote:I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with love levers. Are they worth it?



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Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Jay Lonner]

I like Paul brakes for all the reasons stated above. “Worth” is hard to pin 
down, but I like the Gene Berg quote from upthread. (OT: it’s been a while 
since I’ve heard that name!) I’ve tried different types and prefer the 
Motolites over the cantilever versions. Once the Racers are back in production 
I’ll be giving those a try as well, as an upgrade for my wife’s Cheviot.

Bill (or anybody else, really) I’ve got two sets of gently used Paul 
cantilevers for sale, one set of of Neo-Retros and one set of Tourings, along 
with one set of Canti levers. All of it is in anodized silver. I’d be happy to 
pass this stuff along for half off retail, with shipping on me.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

> On Sep 25, 2022, at 5:29 PM, Bill Fulford  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all of your thoughtful responses. I certainly believe that Paul 
> brakes are excellent and worth the price. I guess that I was surprised that 
> the price wasn’t for a full brake set. But that is me being out of touch with 
> high quality components. Most likely I’m going to cancel the order and save 
> Paul brakes for my dream bike, whatever that may be. Thank you for your 
> responses.
> 
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 8:10:24 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>> Bill, Since you asked, no , they're not worth it. I could give you my 
>> reasons, but they would be no less a rationalization of why I don't buy or 
>> use them as those that do. So you're right back to where you are, with a 
>> pending order for what you thought was for a complete set but only half. The 
>> guys @Riv will understand that.
>> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Fulford]

Thanks for all of your thoughtful responses. I certainly believe that Paul 
brakes are excellent and worth the price. I guess that I was surprised that 
the price wasn’t for a full brake set. But that is me being out of touch 
with high quality components. Most likely I’m going to cancel the order and 
save Paul brakes for my dream bike, whatever that may be. Thank you for 
your responses.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 8:10:24 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Bill, Since you asked, no , they're not worth it. I could give you my 
> reasons, but they would be no less a rationalization of why I don't buy or 
> use them as those that do. So you're right back to where you are, with a 
> pending order for what you thought was for a complete set but only half. 
> The guys @Riv will understand that.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Garth]

Bill, Since you asked, no , they're not worth it. I could give you my 
reasons, but they would be no less a rationalization of why I don't buy or 
use them as those that do. So you're right back to where you are, with a 
pending order for what you thought was for a complete set but only half. 
The guys @Riv will understand that.

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes he should buy what he wants, my answer is my experience and how I feel 
about it. It's also based on the budget I was working with a couple years 
ago, I'm not currently operating with Paul money! 🤑

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:20:51 PM UTC-7 Minh wrote:

> you're responses are going to be a little skewed by asking on this group, 
> as most of us have decided that 'worth it' are based on other things beside 
> $$ value.   from a functional standpoint you can get other brakes that are 
> more affordable and function nearly the same.   if you want to split the 
> difference consider forgoing the brakes and treating yourself to the 
> levers, they will bring you a little bit of joy everytime you touch them 
> and remind you about the person that gave you the gift.  
>
> there's no wrong decision here, its really personal so do what feels right 
> to you regardless of what others may say, welcome and enjoy!
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:08:52 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:
>
>> They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and 
>> supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes, 
>> and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are 
>> absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that 
>> they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti 
>> brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind) 
>> intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the 
>> same way. 
>> And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to 
>> (within reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam 
>> Hillborne no problem (except removing the fenders.)
>> I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener tool 
>> https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
>> Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone 
>> wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really 
>> helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>
>>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bikes For Sale: Craigslist, ebay, etc. Fall 2022 edition

[Brian Turner]

Joe, you’re probably right that it is a 52 and the owner was measuring c-c or something. If it were closer to a 54-55 size I’d be inclined to try to negotiate a more reasonable price. That bike looks like it could use some love.On Sep 25, 2022, at 6:25 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:The $3,000 AR is a 51cm. I reached out to the seller since she’s in my neck of the woods. I’m sure it’s a nice Riv for a project bike, but I agree it’s got too much going against it to fetch that asking price.On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Ryan  wrote:I confess mine has "Ryan Fleming" on it. My vanity would almost certainly discount the price...if I was going to sell it. My heirs' problem, not mine. Saddle level with a Pearl stem. Moustache bars. I'm still OK with that position and it's still a lovely bike...my issue is with the accursed Compass McClure tires I replaced the perfectly fine Pasela 26" X 1.5"  tires with 

😒 ...an upgrade that really wasn't necessary.On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:03:10 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:Yeah that AR looks like the 52cm I had, which also had the dreaded owner's name on the toptube..not the most brilliant idea in early Rivland. $3000 is uh optimistic, there's a 50cm on Ebay that started there and is now down to $2000 with no takers. They're nice production bikes with beautiful paint and graphics but I think the low-ish bar heights available with them are a struggle for current Riv Riders. On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:46:48 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:First one is a Waterford-built All-rounder. Same color as mine. Looks like it wasn't ridden so muchI don't have a FB account but I downloaded the screen shot and saw the 531 decal ...and the lugs. $3000.00. Too much? Someone might want to cover over owner's initials , which was an option at the time. Nice bike. 26" wheels? Looks like a sub 56cm size but just guessingHaven't ridden mine much lately , but I'm loath to part with it.On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:25:06 AM UTC-5 JAS wrote:SAM $240051mPortland https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-bicycle-works-sam/7536289932.htmlRomulus $155057cmSeattlehttps://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/7530803930.htmlBleriot  $195055 cmSeattlehttps://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/7518207928.htmlOn Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:30:07 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:Rivendell TouringNo size listed$3,000 Lexington, KY https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/399785835688755/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=postPlatypus60cm$3,000Grand Rapids, MIhttps://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1302632586938953/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post



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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Minh]

you're responses are going to be a little skewed by asking on this group, 
as most of us have decided that 'worth it' are based on other things beside 
$$ value.   from a functional standpoint you can get other brakes that are 
more affordable and function nearly the same.   if you want to split the 
difference consider forgoing the brakes and treating yourself to the 
levers, they will bring you a little bit of joy everytime you touch them 
and remind you about the person that gave you the gift.  

there's no wrong decision here, its really personal so do what feels right 
to you regardless of what others may say, welcome and enjoy!

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:08:52 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:

> They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and 
> supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes, 
> and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are 
> absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that 
> they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti 
> brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind) 
> intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the 
> same way. 
> And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to 
> (within reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam 
> Hillborne no problem (except removing the fenders.)
> I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener tool 
> https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
> Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone 
> wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really 
> helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.
>
> Mike M
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FOR SALE : SRAM CARBON FIBER BRAKE LEVERS

[Piaw Na]

I have these on my Roadini, and they're the best. Highly recommend. I was 
very worried that Campagnolo had discontinued their carbon brake levers, 
but the SRAMs are just as comfortable. Brake levers are the only place on 
my bike I have carbon fiber. They act as insulators which means your 
hands/fingers stay warmer. I've used the Campagnolo Record versions of 
various tandems and touring bikes since 2003 and they've never failed.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-7 Charlie wrote:

> [image: CIMG6558.JPG]SRAM CARBON FIBER BRAKE LEVERS
> NEW NEVER USED $60 CASH   $10 SHIPPING
> CHARLIE  PETRY
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bikes For Sale: Craigslist, ebay, etc. Fall 2022 edition

[Brian Turner]

The $3,000 AR is a 51cm. I reached out to the seller since she’s in my neck of the woods. I’m sure it’s a nice Riv for a project bike, but I agree it’s got too much going against it to fetch that asking price.On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Ryan  wrote:I confess mine has "Ryan Fleming" on it. My vanity would almost certainly discount the price...if I was going to sell it. My heirs' problem, not mine. Saddle level with a Pearl stem. Moustache bars. I'm still OK with that position and it's still a lovely bike...my issue is with the accursed Compass McClure tires I replaced the perfectly fine Pasela 26" X 1.5"  tires with 

😒 ...an upgrade that really wasn't necessary.On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:03:10 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:Yeah that AR looks like the 52cm I had, which also had the dreaded owner's name on the toptube..not the most brilliant idea in early Rivland. $3000 is uh optimistic, there's a 50cm on Ebay that started there and is now down to $2000 with no takers. They're nice production bikes with beautiful paint and graphics but I think the low-ish bar heights available with them are a struggle for current Riv Riders. On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:46:48 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:First one is a Waterford-built All-rounder. Same color as mine. Looks like it wasn't ridden so muchI don't have a FB account but I downloaded the screen shot and saw the 531 decal ...and the lugs. $3000.00. Too much? Someone might want to cover over owner's initials , which was an option at the time. Nice bike. 26" wheels? Looks like a sub 56cm size but just guessingHaven't ridden mine much lately , but I'm loath to part with it.On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:25:06 AM UTC-5 JAS wrote:SAM $240051mPortland https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-bicycle-works-sam/7536289932.htmlRomulus $155057cmSeattlehttps://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/7530803930.htmlBleriot  $195055 cmSeattlehttps://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/7518207928.htmlOn Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:30:07 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:Rivendell TouringNo size listed$3,000 Lexington, KY https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/399785835688755/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=postPlatypus60cm$3,000Grand Rapids, MIhttps://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1302632586938953/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post



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[RBW] Re: ISO: Used 650b wheels (or rims)

[S. Greco]

I have a set - Velocity Dyads / Mavic MR601 hubs (front and rear)  - $350


On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 5:43:43 PM UTC-4 jcbrya...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've found myself in need of a spare set of rim brake 650b wheels for my 
> wife's bike. She's happy running 38-42 tires, so I don't need anything 
> crazy wide. Anything within the realm of A23s or Dyads would be fine. I 
> don't have the budget to pick up a custom hand-built set right now and 
> piecing together new components and building them up myself adds up with 
> the current prices. I've got my eye on a set of A23s from Velomine, but 
> those are still a bit more than I want to spend right now. I figured I'd 
> reach out here to see if anyone has a used set they're looking to part with 
> for the right price. I don't mind truing or building them up if anyone just 
> has the spare parts. Figured it was worth a shot!
>
> -J.C.
>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[velomann]

They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and 
supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes, 
and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are 
absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that 
they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti 
brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind) 
intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the 
same way. 
And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to (within 
reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam Hillborne no 
problem (except removing the fenders.)
I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener 
tool https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone 
wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really 
helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.

Mike M

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

Tire clearance is a thing, too, if you're looking at v-brakes. My Motolites 
are quite tall and clear a 650B x 47 "gravel" tire with room left for 
fenders. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:00:19 PM UTC-7 Ryan M. wrote:

> I really do think they are worth the money and when/if you ever decide to 
> sell them you can recoup a lot of the cost back. 
>
> I've had the fortunate experience of using most of the current Paul brakes 
> at one time or another and I do think they all work really well. They work 
> even better when you pair them with a set of Paul levers too. I think the 
> combination really makes the system work quite well and the levers are just 
> strong and smooth. I'm a huge fan of the moto lites, Klampers, and the 
> canti brakes, either the touring or retro models. It does take a little 
> time to set up those cantis, but once dialed in they are great. 
>
> Worth it for you...well, that depends on the money. A set of Shimano xt v 
> brakes and levers just isn't that much money and they will work fine. Pauls 
> are just better and IMHO, easier to setup...and the motolites have an 
> industry best disconnection system. 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:34:47 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, 
>> have them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
>> Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 
>>
>> I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
>> weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
>> expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
>> that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
>> levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 
>>
>> I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
>> springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 
>>
>> In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
>> touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
>> those I do regret it. 
>>
>> For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
>> about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 
>>
>> This video  is about the 
>> coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
>> quite interesting. 
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
>>> value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 
>>>
>>> I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back 
>>> in production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
>>> justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 
>>>
>>> In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
>>> bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
>>> Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
>>> sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
>>> really subjective. 
>>>
>>> I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying 
>>> serious money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk 
>>> heavily at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for 
>>> example, $xxx on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that 
>>> works “98 to 100 percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? 
>>> Well, I got a fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper 
>>> brakes. 
>>>
>>> Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
>>> figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
>>> but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
>>> amusing. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my 
 Rivendell Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably 
 superior to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the 
 arms is miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, 
 the very slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and 
 shifters, I love the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), 
 and they're made 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a 
 chunk 
 of cash but they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad 
 I 
 did it. 

 Joe Bernard 

 On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 
> 2007 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to 
> read 
> later that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I 

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Ryan M.]

I really do think they are worth the money and when/if you ever decide to 
sell them you can recoup a lot of the cost back. 

I've had the fortunate experience of using most of the current Paul brakes 
at one time or another and I do think they all work really well. They work 
even better when you pair them with a set of Paul levers too. I think the 
combination really makes the system work quite well and the levers are just 
strong and smooth. I'm a huge fan of the moto lites, Klampers, and the 
canti brakes, either the touring or retro models. It does take a little 
time to set up those cantis, but once dialed in they are great. 

Worth it for you...well, that depends on the money. A set of Shimano xt v 
brakes and levers just isn't that much money and they will work fine. Pauls 
are just better and IMHO, easier to setup...and the motolites have an 
industry best disconnection system. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:34:47 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, have 
> them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
> Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 
>
> I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
> weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
> expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
> that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
> levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 
>
> I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
> springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 
>
> In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
> touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
> those I do regret it. 
>
> For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
> about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 
>
> This video  is about the 
> coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
> quite interesting. 
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
>> value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 
>>
>> I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back in 
>> production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
>> justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 
>>
>> In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
>> bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
>> Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
>> sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
>> really subjective. 
>>
>> I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying serious 
>> money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk heavily 
>> at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for example, $xxx 
>> on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that works “98 to 100 
>> percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? Well, I got a 
>> fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper brakes. 
>>
>> Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
>> figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
>> but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
>> amusing. 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my 
>>> Rivendell Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably 
>>> superior to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the 
>>> arms is miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, 
>>> the very slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and 
>>> shifters, I love the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), 
>>> and they're made 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk 
>>> of cash but they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I 
>>> did it. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>>
 I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read 
 later 
 that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. 
 So 
 before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
 feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
 love levers. Are they worth it?
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Eric Marth]

Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, have 
them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 

I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 

I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 

In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
those I do regret it. 

For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 

This video  is about the 
coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
quite interesting. 
On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
> value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 
>
> I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back in 
> production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
> justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 
>
> In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
> bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
> Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
> sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
> really subjective. 
>
> I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying serious 
> money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk heavily 
> at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for example, $xxx 
> on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that works “98 to 100 
> percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? Well, I got a 
> fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper brakes. 
>
> Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
> figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
> but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
> amusing. 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my 
>> Rivendell Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably 
>> superior to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the 
>> arms is miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, 
>> the very slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and 
>> shifters, I love the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), 
>> and they're made 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk 
>> of cash but they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I 
>> did it. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>
>>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Bikes For Sale: Craigslist, ebay, etc. Fall 2022 edition

[Ryan]

I confess mine has "Ryan Fleming" on it. My vanity would almost certainly 
discount the price...if I was going to sell it. My heirs' problem, not 
mine. Saddle level with a Pearl stem. Moustache bars. I'm still OK with 
that position and it's still a lovely bike...my issue is with the accursed 
Compass McClure tires I replaced the perfectly fine Pasela 26" X 1.5"  
tires with  😒 ...an upgrade that really wasn't necessary.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:03:10 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Yeah that AR looks like the 52cm I had, which also had the dreaded owner's 
> name on the toptube..not the most brilliant idea in early Rivland. $3000 is 
> uh optimistic, there's a 50cm on Ebay that started there and is now 
> down to $2000 with no takers. They're nice production bikes with beautiful 
> paint and graphics but I think the low-ish bar heights available with them 
> are a struggle for current Riv Riders. 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:46:48 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>
>> First one is a Waterford-built All-rounder. Same color as mine. Looks 
>> like it wasn't ridden so much
>>
>> I don't have a FB account but I downloaded the screen shot and saw the 
>> 531 decal ...and the lugs. $3000.00. Too much? Someone might want to cover 
>> over owner's initials , which was an option at the time. Nice bike. 26" 
>> wheels? Looks like a sub 56cm size but just guessing
>>
>> Haven't ridden mine much lately , but I'm loath to part with it.
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:25:06 AM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>>
>>> SAM $2400
>>> 51m
>>> Portland 
>>>
>>> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-bicycle-works-sam/7536289932.html
>>>
>>> Romulus $1550
>>> 57cm
>>> Seattle
>>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/7530803930.html
>>>
>>> Bleriot  $1950
>>> 55 cm
>>> Seattle
>>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/7518207928.html
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:30:07 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Rivendell Touring
 No size listed
 $3,000 
 Lexington, KY 


 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/399785835688755/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post

 [image: 307812527_5541503645919163_3580851272735801391_n.jpg]

 Platypus
 60cm
 $3,000
 Grand Rapids, MI


 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1302632586938953/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post

 [image: 302796712_4687769534658839_715238091324189516_n.jpg]

>>>

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[RBW] Re: FOR SALE : HEAD SET WRENCHES + PEDAL WRENCH

['Charlie' via RBW Owners Bunch]

 I MADE A MISTAKE $65 FOR ALL .
CHARLIE

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 2:46:04 PM UTC-4 Charlie wrote:

> HEAD SET WRENCHES+PEDAL WRENCH $70 + SHIPPING $16
> CASH OR USPS MONEY ORDER (POST OFFICE MO) NO OTHER MONEY  ORDERS
>
> PARK HW-2 32mm X 36mm SEMI - BOX DESIGN 
> NO NAME 36X32+
>
> WRENCH FORCE
> 32X36mm
> 32X15mm
> 32X30 mm
> ELDI PEDAL WRENCH 9/16Z" X 15mmCHROM-VANADUM(NO PICTURE)
>
> ALL IN VERY GOOD CONDITION 
>
> CONTACT OFF LIST
>
> CHARLIE PETRY  JENNERSVILLE PA[image: DSCF1992.JPG]
>

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[RBW] Re: Bikes For Sale: Craigslist, ebay, etc. Fall 2022 edition

[Joe Bernard]

Yeah that AR looks like the 52cm I had, which also had the dreaded owner's 
name on the toptube..not the most brilliant idea in early Rivland. $3000 is 
uh optimistic, there's a 50cm on Ebay that started there and is now 
down to $2000 with no takers. They're nice production bikes with beautiful 
paint and graphics but I think the low-ish bar heights available with them 
are a struggle for current Riv Riders. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:46:48 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> First one is a Waterford-built All-rounder. Same color as mine. Looks like 
> it wasn't ridden so much
>
> I don't have a FB account but I downloaded the screen shot and saw the 531 
> decal ...and the lugs. $3000.00. Too much? Someone might want to cover over 
> owner's initials , which was an option at the time. Nice bike. 26" wheels? 
> Looks like a sub 56cm size but just guessing
>
> Haven't ridden mine much lately , but I'm loath to part with it.
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:25:06 AM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>
>> SAM $2400
>> 51m
>> Portland 
>>
>> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-bicycle-works-sam/7536289932.html
>>
>> Romulus $1550
>> 57cm
>> Seattle
>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/7530803930.html
>>
>> Bleriot  $1950
>> 55 cm
>> Seattle
>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/7518207928.html
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:30:07 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rivendell Touring
>>> No size listed
>>> $3,000 
>>> Lexington, KY 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/399785835688755/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
>>>
>>> [image: 307812527_5541503645919163_3580851272735801391_n.jpg]
>>>
>>> Platypus
>>> 60cm
>>> $3,000
>>> Grand Rapids, MI
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1302632586938953/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
>>>
>>> [image: 302796712_4687769534658839_715238091324189516_n.jpg]
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[J J]

Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 

I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back in 
production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 

In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
really subjective. 

I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying serious 
money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk heavily 
at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for example, $xxx 
on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that works “98 to 100 
percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? Well, I got a 
fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper brakes. 

Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
amusing. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my Rivendell 
> Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably superior 
> to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the arms is 
> miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, the very 
> slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and shifters, I love 
> the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), and they're made 
> 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk of cash but 
> they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I did it. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sackville hub bags/rack, Nitto bars, Rene Herse

[Collin A]

RH Tires are gone, but the rack/bags are still available. Open to 
reasonable offers!

Collin in Sactown

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:44:08 PM UTC-7 Collin A wrote:

> There have been a couple nibbles on the rack and bags, but no takers. 
> Updated below:
>
> Nitto Hub Area Rack with Sackville Bags - These are wonderful and are made 
> for each other, practically new condition except for some garage dust. 
> Super solid connection with some irish straps and classy looking. Also, 
> pretty dang light, lighter than my bikepacking bags with a tubus rack! 
> *Asking 
> for $300 + shipping in a 14"x12"x6" box*
>
> Rene Herse Juniper Ridge Endurance - 650x48 knobby endurance casings. 
> These have about 300 miles on them, but ride great on the local trails 
> around Salt Lake City and Bay Area. No flats, slices, cuts, etc.
> * Asking $120 shipped.*
>
> Collin in Sactown
> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 2:57:37 PM UTC-7 Collin A wrote:
>
>> PM'd ya!
>>
>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:14:46 AM UTC-6 Reid Echols wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Collin, 
>>>
>>> I've got a like new Sackville Baggabond, if you're interested? 
>>>
>>> Either way, I might interested in those tires and the HAR. 
>>>
>>> Thanks, 
>>> Reid in Austin 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 1:10:32 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:
>>>
 Hey Folks,

 My wife is going through some adjustments on her homer, and now we've 
 got some spare parts! We are open for a trade for a backabike bag in olive 
 or forest green if you've got one lying around...

 Photos:
 https://photos.app.goo.gl/fq8pdK8MorGTXYNN7

 Nitto Hub Area Rack with Sackville Bags - These are wonderful and are 
 made for each other, practically new condition except for some garage 
 dust. 
 Super solid connection with some irish straps and classy looking. Also, 
 pretty dang light, lighter than my bikepacking bags with a tubus rack! 
 Asking for $350 + shipping in a 14"x12"x6" box

 Nitto Albatross Bars - 56 cm (1 cm longer than the normal ones), again 
 in great condition. My wife clearly takes care of her bike much better 
 than 
 I do! Heat treated Alu variety. Asking $100+shipping in a 22"x8"x8" box

 Rene Herse Juniper Ridge Endurance - 650x48 knobby endurance casings. 
 These have about 300 miles on them, but ride great on the local trails 
 around Salt Lake City and Bay Area. No flats, slices, cuts, etc. Asking 
 $120 +shipping in a USPS regional flat rate box A.

 All shipping will be from 95816 and the cheapest option out there, 
 likely USPS or bikeflights.

 Cheers,
 Collin in Sactown

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[lconley]

Years ago I used to buy what some people considered overpriced VW parts 
from Gene Berg. His motto was "Buy the best and cry once". I basically 
subscribe to that point of view, but I more or less have the money to do 
it. That is why I buy so many Rivendells. Made in USA is a plus with me. I 
generally do not like the look of the non-disc Paul brakes, but I do have a 
quite a few parts from Paul including hubs, Klamper disc brakes, V-brakes, 
cantilever brakes, moon units, brake levers, thumbies, and several sets of 
skewers. The quality is undeniable. The brake levers are magnificent and 
even good looking. I have the V-brakes on the Hubbuhubbuh and the 
cantilevers on the Bombadil touring bike, basically the two heaviest bikes 
that I own. Bulletproof braking has is own beauty and I think that they are 
worth it. The discs are on my VO Neutrino. If you want new, high quality, 
internal cam skewers, Paul is basically the only game in town.

If you like them and can afford it, I say buy the Paul components. They are 
the type of components that you remove from a bike when you sell it to use 
on your next build.

Laing

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Richard Rose]

I cannot speak to the brakes. But the levers are SO GOOD! Having never had any 
kind of issue with my Shimano linear pull brakes I feel like it’s crazy money 
for the Paul’s, but based on the levers I may be wrong.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 25, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Bill Fulford  wrote:
> 
> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with love 
> levers. Are they worth it?
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[RBW] Re: Bikes For Sale: Craigslist, ebay, etc. Fall 2022 edition

[Ryan]

First one is a Waterford-built All-rounder. Same color as mine. Looks like 
it wasn't ridden so much

I don't have a FB account but I downloaded the screen shot and saw the 531 
decal ...and the lugs. $3000.00. Too much? Someone might want to cover over 
owner's initials , which was an option at the time. Nice bike. 26" wheels? 
Looks like a sub 56cm size but just guessing

Haven't ridden mine much lately , but I'm loath to part with it.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 11:25:06 AM UTC-5 JAS wrote:

> SAM $2400
> 51m
> Portland 
>
> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-bicycle-works-sam/7536289932.html
>
> Romulus $1550
> 57cm
> Seattle
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/7530803930.html
>
> Bleriot  $1950
> 55 cm
> Seattle
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/7518207928.html
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:30:07 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Rivendell Touring
>> No size listed
>> $3,000 
>> Lexington, KY 
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/399785835688755/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
>>
>> [image: 307812527_5541503645919163_3580851272735801391_n.jpg]
>>
>> Platypus
>> 60cm
>> $3,000
>> Grand Rapids, MI
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1302632586938953/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
>>
>> [image: 302796712_4687769534658839_715238091324189516_n.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

"Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my Rivendell 
Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably superior 
to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the arms is 
miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, the very 
slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and shifters, I love 
the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), and they're made 
95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk of cash but 
they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I did it. 

Joe Bernard 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Lindsay]

There is no objective answer to that question.  For lots of people, the 
answer is unequivocally yes.  For many others, the answer is no.  

Many who love them love the adjust-ability.  Many who dislike them call 
them "fiddly", since they are so adjustable, one has to be a pretty good 
wrench to dial them in.  Even though I say that one has to be a pretty good 
wrench, I bet a dollar somebody will respond "I'm not a good wrench and I 
was able to set up my Paul brakes perfectly".  

Lots of people are delighted to pay a premium for something MUSA, and/or 
made in California.  Lots of people are willing to pay a premium out of 
gratitude to the company for the vast amount of free entertainment they put 
out on Instagram.  

It already sounds like you don't want to pay $600 for brakes, so for you as 
an individual, they probably are not "worth it".  Similarly a $1200 Joe 
Bell paint job probably wouldn't be "worth it".  The moment you decide you 
want to buy them, then they are worth it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

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[RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Fulford]

I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
love levers. Are they worth it?

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[RBW] My new 2021 Rivendell CLEM KADIDDLEHOPPER bicycle

[st nick]

Hi Kim.
You really have that Clem set up nice!
I think I remember you used to post on the ibob years back?
I recall your name from somewhere.Maybe just on the riv list.Memory fades.
Enjoy that terrific Clem and safe riding.
Paul in Dallas 


.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Marth]

Laing — Thanks for sharing that pic of the RH rear mech. I've seen it 
before but haven't read much about it. Are these supposed to offer great 
shifting, justifying their resurrection? Any chance they shift as well as a 
Suntour Cyclone? I'm sure I wouldn't be down for the cost. I remember the 
80th anniversary bikes being around $14,000. 

I agree that RH makes refined and good-looking parts. While I have no 
complaints about how Paul brakes look I do understand what people mean when 
they say they look CAD-heavy, stamped, unrefined, or as you point out, 
brutalist. I definitely prefer the look of the RH roller straddle cable 
hangers to the Moon Unit. Also agree about the Silver *and * Sugino/Clipper 
cranks, there are definitely better looking cranks out there. 
On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 12:26:08 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I have only seen the Nivex / Rene Herse derailleur for sale on the limited 
> edition 80th anniversary Rene Herse bicycle that sold out immediately. The 
> Nivex / Rene Herse derailleur mounts to a braze-on in the chainstay. This 
> picture is from Jan's PBP bike:
>
> [image: Rene Herse.JPG]
>
> On Disraeli Gears, they show a Nivex derailleur that clamps to the rear 
> chainstay. This derailleur dates back to 1937 - and some call Grant a 
> Retro-Grouch!
> It was supposedly in production as of April, but subject to supply issues 
> along with everything else. Note that is is a "no normal" derailleur - it 
> has two cables and no spring (other than the pulley cage) - it requires a 
> pulling cable in both directions.
>
> I am kind of partial to Rene Herse stuff, my custom has their tires, 
> crankset, brakes, front cable hanger, headset spacers, and water bottle 
> cage bolts. They pay a lot of attention to the appearance of the component 
> - unlike components such as Paul brakes and Rivendell cranksets, which are 
> kind of brutalist to my eye. But I do not think I will trying the Rene 
> Herse front or rear derailleurs , though.
>
> Laing
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 2:41:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> My mechanical reasoning challenged mind does not get the apparently self 
>> evident "mechanically, logically, intuitively, low-normal/RapidRise 
>> derailers are better…"  If I cared that my shifters both went the same way 
>> to get to a lower gear I would probably go to a reverse pull front 
>> derailleur to achieve that.  I agree, I want my low NOW and my experience 
>> is I get that when I am pulling the derailleur not when the spring is.  To 
>> me, this is why a reverse pull front derailleur on a tandem is sometimes a 
>> solution to having trouble shifting to a granny on a tandem - the springs 
>> just seem to have trouble counteracting any chain tension.  It is easier on 
>> a single to release all the tension so the spring of normal pull front 
>> derailleurs usually handle that shift without too much trouble.  I also 
>> don't buy that low normal didn't take because of racers.  The slant 
>> parallelogram was a big success for Suntour because they actually were so 
>> much better even though the pros weren't using Suntour derailleurs.  I 
>> kinda think that if OM actually was so much better they also would have 
>> succeeded in the market.  I have nothing against them and think it is great 
>> that there are choices to meet various needs or desires, I'm just not 
>> personally moved. 
>>
>>  I still find the Rene Herse rear derailleur the most intriguing of the 
>> small shop derailleurs.  If it could handle a cog larger than what FKT 
>> riders use I might even be tempted to give one a try.  Wait, I thought he 
>> sold those but I can't find them on their website??
>>
>> Bill S 
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 10:59:39 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Laing, I love the look of those mechs. The Le Tour, the Rally, and the 
>>> new Record. With the drillium it does seem they're harkening back to the 
>>> cages of the Shimano Crane. It almost looks like your picture is from their 
>>> research files! 
>>>
>>> Bill, I think you're right, we'd moan if we missed out. I think I'll get 
>>> one just to have one and to support such an insane project for a company of 
>>> Riv's size to undertake and, hopefully, see through to the end. 
>>>
>>> Were those Paul derailers any good? They look cool but I've never read 
>>> any accounts of how they worked (or didn't). 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:40:11 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 This demographic is the type that will handwring over the price while 
 the part is available, and then bellyache when it is not available 
 anymore, 
 finally bemoaning "if they ever bring it back I would buy two!"  :)

 It's what some people say about Paul rear derailers.  They were what 
 $350?  They/we complained that they were expensive, then complained when 
 they went away, and now you often see comments "I hope Paul reintroduces 
 their 

[RBW] Re: Ride report: Blue Ridge loop

[Eric Marth]

Thank you, Junes! On my ride today I was thinking I should have stopped to 
take photos of the road surfaces, could be interesting to share with the 
group. But with all the climbing I was discouraged from stopping. 

J — I forget that synthetic and natural down layers are for keeping you 
warm while you're still (or maybe descending). Reading your comment I'm now 
reminded. DM me and maybe we can connect for a ride :) 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 12:58:38 PM UTC-4 J wrote:

> Great ride report Eric, looks like a lovely time. I'm just one state over 
> from you and would totally make the trip to accompany you on a ride. I've 
> have not been very impressed with my Patagonia Nano Puff. It's not great 
> for physical activities. 
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 2:22:49 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Blue Ridge ramble
>> 23 September 2022
>> 82 miles, 8,300 feet
>>
>> Taken with Ray Hosler’s accounts of long rides in the Sierras riddled 
>> with fire roads, trespassing and lots of climbing I’ve been looking for a 
>> way to attempt something similar in my part of the world. Unfortunately 
>> getting out to the mountains relative to where I live requires at least 
>> three hours of driving. That creates enough friction that I can’t manage it 
>> every weekend. I do wonder what kind of riding shape I’d be in with easy 
>> mountain access. 
>>
>> I’ve been investigating paper maps, Google maps and Strava maps looking 
>> for alternate routes and roads with an aim towards avoiding highways and 
>> roads well travelled. While I couldn’t find any confirmation that certain 
>> roads connected to others while remaining passable by bike I felt confident 
>> enough to try and make a loop. My original charted course was 125 miles, 
>> combining a new untested loop with an old, familiar one. 
>>
>> It seems that fall is on the way. The humidity has tapered off and we’ve 
>> had some lovely weather. Some days in the mid 70s and perfect, others in 
>> the high 80s and still quite nice. The forecast for my ride predicted a low 
>> of 48º in the morning with temperatures climbing to the mid 60s. This might 
>> sound just about perfect for a day out with lots of climbing but there was 
>> some unpleasant wind. With surface winds at 14mph and gusts up to 28mph I 
>> would later find myself freezing. 
>>
>> I prepared for the trip over the course of the week, making lists of what 
>> to bring along. There are stores and even restaurants along the route but I 
>> didn’t want to rely on them for all of my food and water. I brought along 
>> more than I needed. 
>>
>> I stuffed my Fab’s Chest with all of the below. 
>>
>> For food: A bag of peanut butter pretzel nuggets; an 85% chocolate bar; a 
>> blend of walnuts, coconut flakes and pumpkin seeds; a peanut butter, honey, 
>> coconut, salt and banana sandwich with shaved chocolate; and a stainless 
>> container with a handful of salad greens, half an avocado, a soft boiled 
>> egg, walnuts, a carrot and a tin of mackerel. 
>>
>> Gear: A bag with spare front and rear lights, a power pack for lights, 
>> phone and GPS. A spare tire (I’m still getting comfortable running my RH 
>> extralights). Hand sanitizer, wipes. Two bandanas. Paper map of the area, 
>> printed route instructions. Tool kit with Crank Bros multi tool, spare 
>> tube, patch kit, tire levers. 
>>
>> The weather forecast left me confused. Getting ready at 4:00AM I decided 
>> on a wool baselayer and a Patagonia Nano Puff. I wore my torn up Kucharik 
>> wool shorts and wool socks. I packed a pair of Defeet glove liners and a 
>> linen short sleeve shirt. I wish I’d worn a long-sleeve wool jersey, 
>> perhaps paired with a shell.
>>
>> My ride started on some gravel roads that had recently been scraped and 
>> surfaced which left lots of fluffy dirt that had me sliding at times. 
>> Perhaps there’s a tradition to scrape roads at the end of summer as I 
>> encountered this problem on gravel roads throughout the ride. My route took 
>> me along a quiet farm lane that follows a stream then onto a dirt road, 
>> with a strip of grass through the middle, with sorghum growing on one side 
>> and soy on the other. I turned onto a highway for a few miles, then into a 
>> neighborhood with many apple orchards, apple packing warehouses and a small 
>> post office. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2582.jpg]
>>
>> My climbing began on a paved road in the countryside which after several 
>> miles turned to a gravel fire road. 
>>
>> The fire road was a lot of fun and slow going. I used my 26T front ring 
>> and shifted through my cassette as needed, I wasn’t trying for speed but 
>> comfortable climbing. I didn't know what lay ahead and I didn't want to 
>> burn out early. The road was mostly in good shape with nominal sized 
>> gravel, some chunks, some ruts and a few areas where the original mountain 
>> rock came up through the road. I had no trouble with my 44mm Snoqualmie 
>> Pass tires. 
>>
>> The route is wooded a

[RBW] Re: Ride report: Blue Ridge loop

[J]

Great ride report Eric, looks like a lovely time. I'm just one state over 
from you and would totally make the trip to accompany you on a ride. I've 
have not been very impressed with my Patagonia Nano Puff. It's not great 
for physical activities. 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 2:22:49 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Blue Ridge ramble
> 23 September 2022
> 82 miles, 8,300 feet
>
> Taken with Ray Hosler’s accounts of long rides in the Sierras riddled with 
> fire roads, trespassing and lots of climbing I’ve been looking for a way to 
> attempt something similar in my part of the world. Unfortunately getting 
> out to the mountains relative to where I live requires at least three hours 
> of driving. That creates enough friction that I can’t manage it every 
> weekend. I do wonder what kind of riding shape I’d be in with easy mountain 
> access. 
>
> I’ve been investigating paper maps, Google maps and Strava maps looking 
> for alternate routes and roads with an aim towards avoiding highways and 
> roads well travelled. While I couldn’t find any confirmation that certain 
> roads connected to others while remaining passable by bike I felt confident 
> enough to try and make a loop. My original charted course was 125 miles, 
> combining a new untested loop with an old, familiar one. 
>
> It seems that fall is on the way. The humidity has tapered off and we’ve 
> had some lovely weather. Some days in the mid 70s and perfect, others in 
> the high 80s and still quite nice. The forecast for my ride predicted a low 
> of 48º in the morning with temperatures climbing to the mid 60s. This might 
> sound just about perfect for a day out with lots of climbing but there was 
> some unpleasant wind. With surface winds at 14mph and gusts up to 28mph I 
> would later find myself freezing. 
>
> I prepared for the trip over the course of the week, making lists of what 
> to bring along. There are stores and even restaurants along the route but I 
> didn’t want to rely on them for all of my food and water. I brought along 
> more than I needed. 
>
> I stuffed my Fab’s Chest with all of the below. 
>
> For food: A bag of peanut butter pretzel nuggets; an 85% chocolate bar; a 
> blend of walnuts, coconut flakes and pumpkin seeds; a peanut butter, honey, 
> coconut, salt and banana sandwich with shaved chocolate; and a stainless 
> container with a handful of salad greens, half an avocado, a soft boiled 
> egg, walnuts, a carrot and a tin of mackerel. 
>
> Gear: A bag with spare front and rear lights, a power pack for lights, 
> phone and GPS. A spare tire (I’m still getting comfortable running my RH 
> extralights). Hand sanitizer, wipes. Two bandanas. Paper map of the area, 
> printed route instructions. Tool kit with Crank Bros multi tool, spare 
> tube, patch kit, tire levers. 
>
> The weather forecast left me confused. Getting ready at 4:00AM I decided 
> on a wool baselayer and a Patagonia Nano Puff. I wore my torn up Kucharik 
> wool shorts and wool socks. I packed a pair of Defeet glove liners and a 
> linen short sleeve shirt. I wish I’d worn a long-sleeve wool jersey, 
> perhaps paired with a shell.
>
> My ride started on some gravel roads that had recently been scraped and 
> surfaced which left lots of fluffy dirt that had me sliding at times. 
> Perhaps there’s a tradition to scrape roads at the end of summer as I 
> encountered this problem on gravel roads throughout the ride. My route took 
> me along a quiet farm lane that follows a stream then onto a dirt road, 
> with a strip of grass through the middle, with sorghum growing on one side 
> and soy on the other. I turned onto a highway for a few miles, then into a 
> neighborhood with many apple orchards, apple packing warehouses and a small 
> post office. 
>
> [image: IMG_2582.jpg]
>
> My climbing began on a paved road in the countryside which after several 
> miles turned to a gravel fire road. 
>
> The fire road was a lot of fun and slow going. I used my 26T front ring 
> and shifted through my cassette as needed, I wasn’t trying for speed but 
> comfortable climbing. I didn't know what lay ahead and I didn't want to 
> burn out early. The road was mostly in good shape with nominal sized 
> gravel, some chunks, some ruts and a few areas where the original mountain 
> rock came up through the road. I had no trouble with my 44mm Snoqualmie 
> Pass tires. 
>
> The route is wooded and follows a river. There are charming mossy boulders 
> and I can see this place looking like heaven in another month. So far, some 
> leaves have fallen but there is not much color in the canopies. 
>
> [image: 220923 01.jpg]
>
> Along the climb I passed a few campers and a pair of guys in waders 
> carrying flyrods. I was mostly out there alone, climbing and climbing, 
> 3,000 feet over 13 miles. To date this was my longest climb. 
>
> After several hours I’d reached the ridge line road that’s part of the 
> national park. Every time I looked at the elapsed time and c

[RBW] Re: Roaduno substitute for a while...

[Ryan]

Very nice...as usual. I have those Deore XT cantilevers on my AR. Never 
thought of them as clunky but I see your point

Great color!

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> My Single Speed Crust Lightning Bolt build is essentially complete now.  
> The same Flickr album has all the pictures from my Saturday activities:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720302216629
>
> On Saturday I built the wheels:
>   -Crust 650B Rims
>   -Sapim Double Butted Spokes (32, 3x) brass nipples
>   -Surly Ultra New fixed/free rear hub
>   -Kasai Dynamo front hub
>   -Rene Herse Juniper Ridge Tires (584x48 knobby)
>   -Schwalbe tubes
>
> Then when I had a rolling chassis, I took some final measurements to 
> figure out where to cut the steerer.  The last couple shots in the album 
> show that rolling chassis and the drive train detail.  I got clever with 
> the dropout adjusters.  The frame comes with two 35mm long M4x0.7 
> adjusters, which take a 2mm allen in the end.  One would use blue loctite 
> to help it hold its position.  My gear change operation on my two-speed 
> drivetrain involves loosening the drive side axlenut moving the chain from 
> big to small and then small to big, and then tighten the drive side axle 
> nut.  The non-drive side axle nut stays where it is.  It takes about 30 
> seconds to "shift".  These adjusters, if I use them at all, would prevent 
> the drive side of the rear hub from noodging forward during this shift 
> operation.  So, I need to back that one off during the shift.  I didn't 
> want to go fishing for a tiny 2mm allen during that move, so I replaced the 
> drive side adjuster with a nice serrated thumbscrew.  The left side has the 
> job to stay put, so I left the original bolt and added a serrated thumb nut 
> to act as a lock nut.  I think it's a pretty pro set up.  
>
> After I cut the fork I installed a set of vintage Shimano Deore XT 
> cantilever brakes.  The original brake pads are still in there and good as 
> new.  They are quite chunky (chonky) and take up most of the rim sidewall.  
> I may swap them for some smooth post kool stop holders.  One the brakes 
> were done, I just installed a front rack, dynamo lamp, my homemade 
> decaleur, and wrapped the bars.  My spare King Kage inventory only had one 
> Iris and one Titanium, so the cages don't match.  I'm not sure which one 
> I'll replace.  
>
> The second coat of shellac just went on.  After the sun rises I'll take a 
> few more shots and then we can start riding the thing.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 7:26:31 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> This is the Flickr Album where I will post all my build photos.  There 
>> are a few unboxing shots in there already.  
>>
>> Single Speed Rando | Flickr 
>> 
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 6:21:23 AM UTC-7 Patch T wrote:
>>
>>> As always, I very much looking forward to this Bill Lindsay build. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:14:16 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I had been searching for quite a while for a single speed that enabled 
 some derailer-less gear flexibility.  On one hand I searched for a 58cm 
 Quickbeam or SimpleONE.  On the other hand I was/am waiting on the 
 RoadUNO.  I was/am a huge fan of Rivendells rear dropouts with the angle 
 that allows a significant gear change while maintaining brake adjustment.  

 In an absolutely perfect world, my Size Large singlespeed would also 
 have been 650B (for fat tires and no TCO).  While I'm sitting here in 
 fantasy-land, I also would have waved my magic wand to have the bike be 
 belt-compatible, and would allow brakes, but have a discreet way to NOT 
 run 
 brakes.  

 Over the last 18 months or so, I've been working with placeholders for 
 these things.  I bought a Crust Michigan Man right when they were released 
 and set it up as a strictly 1-speed fixie in my office in Wayne County, 
 Michigan.  Will at Riv also has a Michigan Man.  I also managed to acquire 
 a 58cm Quickbeam, and that is now in my garage as a 8-speed single speed.  
 I slowly acquired some of the parts for a 650B custom, including a pair of 
 Rivendell dropouts.  I even had preliminary conversations with a local 
 builder, and have a tentative spot on his enormous waiting list.  

 Then, totally by surprise, a new contender appeared.  Crust released a 
 new variant of their single speed Lightning Bolt.  It's 650B, with 
 clearance for 48mm tires and contemporary Randonneur geometry.  It's 
 belt-compatible and has removable cantilever posts and cable guides.  It's 
 almost exactly what my custom would have been except for the Riv-style 
 ends.  

 It's 2022, and the lesson we've all learned is that if 

[RBW] Re: Bikes For Sale: Craigslist, ebay, etc. Fall 2022 edition

[JAS]

SAM $2400
51m
Portland 
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-bicycle-works-sam/7536289932.html

Romulus $1550
57cm
Seattle
https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/7530803930.html

Bleriot  $1950
55 cm
Seattle
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/7518207928.html

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:30:07 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Rivendell Touring
> No size listed
> $3,000 
> Lexington, KY 
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/399785835688755/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
>
> [image: 307812527_5541503645919163_3580851272735801391_n.jpg]
>
> Platypus
> 60cm
> $3,000
> Grand Rapids, MI
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1302632586938953/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
>
> [image: 302796712_4687769534658839_715238091324189516_n.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] help identify a small part and a source for it

[J J]

Thanks Mike Godwin, David, and Garth. I appreciate the suggestions and 
creative solutions!

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:48:36 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> I like the idea of the plumbing washers and/or anything one wouldn't 
> normally consider !  

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[RBW] Re: Ride report: Blue Ridge loop

[J J]

I really enjoyed this report, Eric. It’s nicely written and has a great 
balance of personal reflections — including travails — with details about 
the ride itself, road, and terrain. It’s inspiring and makes me want to 
seek new paths.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 8:24:29 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for reading, Randy and duhbrr :) 
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 6:42:33 PM UTC-4 larson@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Great ride report and pictures! A beautiful part of the world, to be sure.
>> Randy in Wisconsin
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 3:35:46 PM UTC-5 duh...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Love these ride reports you've been doing, please keep up the good work!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:22:49 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Blue Ridge ramble
 23 September 2022
 82 miles, 8,300 feet

 Taken with Ray Hosler’s accounts of long rides in the Sierras riddled 
 with fire roads, trespassing and lots of climbing I’ve been looking for a 
 way to attempt something similar in my part of the world. Unfortunately 
 getting out to the mountains relative to where I live requires at least 
 three hours of driving. That creates enough friction that I can’t manage 
 it 
 every weekend. I do wonder what kind of riding shape I’d be in with easy 
 mountain access. 

 I’ve been investigating paper maps, Google maps and Strava maps looking 
 for alternate routes and roads with an aim towards avoiding highways and 
 roads well travelled. While I couldn’t find any confirmation that certain 
 roads connected to others while remaining passable by bike I felt 
 confident 
 enough to try and make a loop. My original charted course was 125 miles, 
 combining a new untested loop with an old, familiar one. 

 It seems that fall is on the way. The humidity has tapered off and 
 we’ve had some lovely weather. Some days in the mid 70s and perfect, 
 others 
 in the high 80s and still quite nice. The forecast for my ride predicted a 
 low of 48º in the morning with temperatures climbing to the mid 60s. This 
 might sound just about perfect for a day out with lots of climbing but 
 there was some unpleasant wind. With surface winds at 14mph and gusts up 
 to 
 28mph I would later find myself freezing. 

 I prepared for the trip over the course of the week, making lists of 
 what to bring along. There are stores and even restaurants along the route 
 but I didn’t want to rely on them for all of my food and water. I brought 
 along more than I needed. 

 I stuffed my Fab’s Chest with all of the below. 

 For food: A bag of peanut butter pretzel nuggets; an 85% chocolate bar; 
 a blend of walnuts, coconut flakes and pumpkin seeds; a peanut butter, 
 honey, coconut, salt and banana sandwich with shaved chocolate; and a 
 stainless container with a handful of salad greens, half an avocado, a 
 soft 
 boiled egg, walnuts, a carrot and a tin of mackerel. 

 Gear: A bag with spare front and rear lights, a power pack for lights, 
 phone and GPS. A spare tire (I’m still getting comfortable running my RH 
 extralights). Hand sanitizer, wipes. Two bandanas. Paper map of the area, 
 printed route instructions. Tool kit with Crank Bros multi tool, spare 
 tube, patch kit, tire levers. 

 The weather forecast left me confused. Getting ready at 4:00AM I 
 decided on a wool baselayer and a Patagonia Nano Puff. I wore my torn up 
 Kucharik wool shorts and wool socks. I packed a pair of Defeet glove 
 liners 
 and a linen short sleeve shirt. I wish I’d worn a long-sleeve wool jersey, 
 perhaps paired with a shell.

 My ride started on some gravel roads that had recently been scraped and 
 surfaced which left lots of fluffy dirt that had me sliding at times. 
 Perhaps there’s a tradition to scrape roads at the end of summer as I 
 encountered this problem on gravel roads throughout the ride. My route 
 took 
 me along a quiet farm lane that follows a stream then onto a dirt road, 
 with a strip of grass through the middle, with sorghum growing on one side 
 and soy on the other. I turned onto a highway for a few miles, then into a 
 neighborhood with many apple orchards, apple packing warehouses and a 
 small 
 post office. 

 [image: IMG_2582.jpg]

 My climbing began on a paved road in the countryside which after 
 several miles turned to a gravel fire road. 

 The fire road was a lot of fun and slow going. I used my 26T front ring 
 and shifted through my cassette as needed, I wasn’t trying for speed but 
 comfortable climbing. I didn't know what lay ahead and I didn't want to 
 burn out early. The road was mostly in good shape with nominal sized 
 gravel, some chunks, some 

[RBW] Re: Roaduno substitute for a while...

[Bill Lindsay]

My Single Speed Crust Lightning Bolt build is essentially complete now.  
The same Flickr album has all the pictures from my Saturday activities:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720302216629

On Saturday I built the wheels:
  -Crust 650B Rims
  -Sapim Double Butted Spokes (32, 3x) brass nipples
  -Surly Ultra New fixed/free rear hub
  -Kasai Dynamo front hub
  -Rene Herse Juniper Ridge Tires (584x48 knobby)
  -Schwalbe tubes

Then when I had a rolling chassis, I took some final measurements to figure 
out where to cut the steerer.  The last couple shots in the album show that 
rolling chassis and the drive train detail.  I got clever with the dropout 
adjusters.  The frame comes with two 35mm long M4x0.7 adjusters, which take 
a 2mm allen in the end.  One would use blue loctite to help it hold its 
position.  My gear change operation on my two-speed drivetrain involves 
loosening the drive side axlenut moving the chain from big to small and 
then small to big, and then tighten the drive side axle nut.  The non-drive 
side axle nut stays where it is.  It takes about 30 seconds to "shift".  
These adjusters, if I use them at all, would prevent the drive side of the 
rear hub from noodging forward during this shift operation.  So, I need to 
back that one off during the shift.  I didn't want to go fishing for a tiny 
2mm allen during that move, so I replaced the drive side adjuster with a 
nice serrated thumbscrew.  The left side has the job to stay put, so I left 
the original bolt and added a serrated thumb nut to act as a lock nut.  I 
think it's a pretty pro set up.  

After I cut the fork I installed a set of vintage Shimano Deore XT 
cantilever brakes.  The original brake pads are still in there and good as 
new.  They are quite chunky (chonky) and take up most of the rim sidewall.  
I may swap them for some smooth post kool stop holders.  One the brakes 
were done, I just installed a front rack, dynamo lamp, my homemade 
decaleur, and wrapped the bars.  My spare King Kage inventory only had one 
Iris and one Titanium, so the cages don't match.  I'm not sure which one 
I'll replace.  

The second coat of shellac just went on.  After the sun rises I'll take a 
few more shots and then we can start riding the thing.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 7:26:31 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> This is the Flickr Album where I will post all my build photos.  There are 
> a few unboxing shots in there already.  
>
> Single Speed Rando | Flickr 
> 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 6:21:23 AM UTC-7 Patch T wrote:
>
>> As always, I very much looking forward to this Bill Lindsay build. 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:14:16 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I had been searching for quite a while for a single speed that enabled 
>>> some derailer-less gear flexibility.  On one hand I searched for a 58cm 
>>> Quickbeam or SimpleONE.  On the other hand I was/am waiting on the 
>>> RoadUNO.  I was/am a huge fan of Rivendells rear dropouts with the angle 
>>> that allows a significant gear change while maintaining brake adjustment.  
>>>
>>> In an absolutely perfect world, my Size Large singlespeed would also 
>>> have been 650B (for fat tires and no TCO).  While I'm sitting here in 
>>> fantasy-land, I also would have waved my magic wand to have the bike be 
>>> belt-compatible, and would allow brakes, but have a discreet way to NOT run 
>>> brakes.  
>>>
>>> Over the last 18 months or so, I've been working with placeholders for 
>>> these things.  I bought a Crust Michigan Man right when they were released 
>>> and set it up as a strictly 1-speed fixie in my office in Wayne County, 
>>> Michigan.  Will at Riv also has a Michigan Man.  I also managed to acquire 
>>> a 58cm Quickbeam, and that is now in my garage as a 8-speed single speed.  
>>> I slowly acquired some of the parts for a 650B custom, including a pair of 
>>> Rivendell dropouts.  I even had preliminary conversations with a local 
>>> builder, and have a tentative spot on his enormous waiting list.  
>>>
>>> Then, totally by surprise, a new contender appeared.  Crust released a 
>>> new variant of their single speed Lightning Bolt.  It's 650B, with 
>>> clearance for 48mm tires and contemporary Randonneur geometry.  It's 
>>> belt-compatible and has removable cantilever posts and cable guides.  It's 
>>> almost exactly what my custom would have been except for the Riv-style 
>>> ends.  
>>>
>>> It's 2022, and the lesson we've all learned is that if the thing you 
>>> want is available, you buy it, because it may never be available again.  
>>> So, I went ahead and bought it, and the frame should arrive today.  I'm 
>>> pretty excited.  
>>>
>>> Whether or not my new Crust will get replaced by a RoadUNO next year 
>>> remains to be seen.  Will's email updates (plus simple geometry) mak

[RBW] Riv Ride 10/15/22 reminder + pin order

[st nick]

Kudos to you and your son. 
That's a beautiful design.
I hope you are able to get them madeand that the ride is an outstanding success 
and enjoyed by all participants.
Paul in Dallas 
Just a thought...If not enough participants want one you might open it up to 
list and get enough people taking one for minimum order.


.

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[RBW] Re: Ride report: Blue Ridge loop

[Eric Marth]

Thanks for reading, Randy and duhbrr :) 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 6:42:33 PM UTC-4 larson@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Great ride report and pictures! A beautiful part of the world, to be sure.
> Randy in Wisconsin
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 3:35:46 PM UTC-5 duh...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Love these ride reports you've been doing, please keep up the good work!
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:22:49 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Blue Ridge ramble
>>> 23 September 2022
>>> 82 miles, 8,300 feet
>>>
>>> Taken with Ray Hosler’s accounts of long rides in the Sierras riddled 
>>> with fire roads, trespassing and lots of climbing I’ve been looking for a 
>>> way to attempt something similar in my part of the world. Unfortunately 
>>> getting out to the mountains relative to where I live requires at least 
>>> three hours of driving. That creates enough friction that I can’t manage it 
>>> every weekend. I do wonder what kind of riding shape I’d be in with easy 
>>> mountain access. 
>>>
>>> I’ve been investigating paper maps, Google maps and Strava maps looking 
>>> for alternate routes and roads with an aim towards avoiding highways and 
>>> roads well travelled. While I couldn’t find any confirmation that certain 
>>> roads connected to others while remaining passable by bike I felt confident 
>>> enough to try and make a loop. My original charted course was 125 miles, 
>>> combining a new untested loop with an old, familiar one. 
>>>
>>> It seems that fall is on the way. The humidity has tapered off and we’ve 
>>> had some lovely weather. Some days in the mid 70s and perfect, others in 
>>> the high 80s and still quite nice. The forecast for my ride predicted a low 
>>> of 48º in the morning with temperatures climbing to the mid 60s. This might 
>>> sound just about perfect for a day out with lots of climbing but there was 
>>> some unpleasant wind. With surface winds at 14mph and gusts up to 28mph I 
>>> would later find myself freezing. 
>>>
>>> I prepared for the trip over the course of the week, making lists of 
>>> what to bring along. There are stores and even restaurants along the route 
>>> but I didn’t want to rely on them for all of my food and water. I brought 
>>> along more than I needed. 
>>>
>>> I stuffed my Fab’s Chest with all of the below. 
>>>
>>> For food: A bag of peanut butter pretzel nuggets; an 85% chocolate bar; 
>>> a blend of walnuts, coconut flakes and pumpkin seeds; a peanut butter, 
>>> honey, coconut, salt and banana sandwich with shaved chocolate; and a 
>>> stainless container with a handful of salad greens, half an avocado, a soft 
>>> boiled egg, walnuts, a carrot and a tin of mackerel. 
>>>
>>> Gear: A bag with spare front and rear lights, a power pack for lights, 
>>> phone and GPS. A spare tire (I’m still getting comfortable running my RH 
>>> extralights). Hand sanitizer, wipes. Two bandanas. Paper map of the area, 
>>> printed route instructions. Tool kit with Crank Bros multi tool, spare 
>>> tube, patch kit, tire levers. 
>>>
>>> The weather forecast left me confused. Getting ready at 4:00AM I decided 
>>> on a wool baselayer and a Patagonia Nano Puff. I wore my torn up Kucharik 
>>> wool shorts and wool socks. I packed a pair of Defeet glove liners and a 
>>> linen short sleeve shirt. I wish I’d worn a long-sleeve wool jersey, 
>>> perhaps paired with a shell.
>>>
>>> My ride started on some gravel roads that had recently been scraped and 
>>> surfaced which left lots of fluffy dirt that had me sliding at times. 
>>> Perhaps there’s a tradition to scrape roads at the end of summer as I 
>>> encountered this problem on gravel roads throughout the ride. My route took 
>>> me along a quiet farm lane that follows a stream then onto a dirt road, 
>>> with a strip of grass through the middle, with sorghum growing on one side 
>>> and soy on the other. I turned onto a highway for a few miles, then into a 
>>> neighborhood with many apple orchards, apple packing warehouses and a small 
>>> post office. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2582.jpg]
>>>
>>> My climbing began on a paved road in the countryside which after several 
>>> miles turned to a gravel fire road. 
>>>
>>> The fire road was a lot of fun and slow going. I used my 26T front ring 
>>> and shifted through my cassette as needed, I wasn’t trying for speed but 
>>> comfortable climbing. I didn't know what lay ahead and I didn't want to 
>>> burn out early. The road was mostly in good shape with nominal sized 
>>> gravel, some chunks, some ruts and a few areas where the original mountain 
>>> rock came up through the road. I had no trouble with my 44mm Snoqualmie 
>>> Pass tires. 
>>>
>>> The route is wooded and follows a river. There are charming mossy 
>>> boulders and I can see this place looking like heaven in another month. So 
>>> far, some leaves have fallen but there is not much color in the canopies. 
>>>
>>> [image: 220923 01.jpg]
>>>
>>> Along the climb I passed a few campe

Re: [RBW] Riv Hobson - Zingo cable cutter

[Eric Marth]

Garth, those are some nice cutters there. And I love finding stuff on the 
side of the road and putting it to use! 

I've only accidentally acquired Snap-On stuff in the past by purchasing 
large lots of tools and later found it bundled in there. They make nice 
stuff but outside what I'm willing to spend. 

The wooden-handled-reamer you mention is likely an awl or a "scratch awl." 
I use one for opening cut cable housing, too. 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 6:12:59 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Eric, they cut well because it appears they're actually some high 
> fallutin' diagonal cutters, model 388ACF Snap-On.   
>
> https://shop.snapon.com/product/High-Leverage-Diagonal/8%22-VectorEdge-High-Leverage-Diagonal-Cutter-(Red)/388ACF
>
> I often get the types mixed up as it's not something I work with at all, 
> and it seems the names/types get all blurry from one manufacturer to the 
> next. Regardless of the cutter every housing cut I've ever done required 
> some minor finishing to make it flush and friction free inside. The Snap-On 
> just seems to mash it less, not a big deal. but hey ... the tool was a 
> roadside find and I may as well use it. I also use an old wooden handled 
> reamer sorta thing that I've had likely since I was a teenager. It may have 
> been a leather punch or something. It works great for reaming and rotating 
> the spiral housing to get it just right, along with some trusty vintage 
> hand files.
>
> Allen hex key wrenches... sheesh .. .. is it so hard to make a 5mm hex key 
> fit a 5mm socket well ? Apparently so as there are many inaccurate ones. I 
> may have to get a set of the Wex .. 
>
> I bought a Pedro's spoke wrench a while ago, I was surprised how well it 
> fit a spoke nipple compared to the regular black DT. Don't use it if you're 
> in hurry though, it's a precise fit ! Pedro's Chain Checker Plus also is a 
> very good tool, and it has at one end the tool for tightening chainring 
> bolts. It's long overall length means you not only don't scrape your 
> knuckles but you get better leverage. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Your preferred non-leather saddle

[Garth]

About all I can say about bike saddles is that they are just fitting 
clothes. That said, I ride Selle Royal Lookin Men's Moderate saddles. Most 
of their saddles are quite flat in that not only is there no center dip, 
the rear of the saddle is also flat
On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:14:37 AM UTC-4 Kieran J wrote:

> I've become really into SMP saddles - I have the Well (slightly padded) 
> and a Dynamic (little padding) and they are both great. The 'dip' in the 
> middle is really comfortable. 
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 7:44:06 PM UTC-7 shopmonkey 39 wrote:
>
>> C17 Carved is my preferred saddle. The have quite a bit more flex than 
>> the regular C17.  
>> If you don’t mind the generic look, old Advocet Touring saddles are 
>> pretty comfy. 
>>
>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 6:11:30 AM UTC-7 
>> jo...@chilmarkresearch.com wrote:
>>
>>> Saddles are a very personal choice. What fits one may not fit another 
>>> thus I tread lightly into this topic. 
>>>
>>> Personally, been riding Fizik Alicantes for years. By far the most 
>>> comfortable saddle on my road bikes. Do have a Prologo nago on my MTB which 
>>> is quite nice as well. 
>>>
>>> Caveat: But what works for you is unlikely to be what works for me. 
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sep 23, 2022, at 8:17 AM, Tom Wyland  wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Ben -- most saddles are arc-shaped and I like flat 
>>> saddles. I really liked my Velo Orange wide touring saddle. It's firm but 
>>> not too firm and has a rubbery texture. Bag loops are a plus. I find this 
>>> saddle to be not breathable enough for me (I don't wear bike shorts). My 
>>> current saddle is a Selle Anatomica H2.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] help identify a small part and a source for it

[Garth]

I like the idea of the plumbing washers and/or anything one wouldn't 
normally consider !  

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Re: [RBW] Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Joe Bernard]

To be clear I see Riv's point in making one, it's a different thing from 
what's currently available so they'll have that niche. I just don't want 
one. 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 4:20:30 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> I’m with Joe on this one. It’s a lot of work on something that’s already 
> been rejected by riders… repeatedly. 
>
> Eric 
>
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> My extremely "grouchy old man" feedback is the one RapidRise I acquired 
>> was a pain in the patooty to install and I didn't find any benefit to the 
>> reverse shifting. In this reporter's opinion! 🙋‍♂️
>>
>> Joe "I don't mind if others like them" Bernard 
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 1:15:10 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>> Last M760 RR data point — looking back at my old bike pix, at least one 
>>> of my reverse-normal M760s has been hard-at-work for 9 years. Was mounted 
>>> in 2013 for sure, maybe just a bit earlier. 
>>>
>>> Jock Dewey
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>>>
 Eric, et. al.:

 I stumbled upon Shimano RR M760 quite a few years ago and snatched a 
 bunch of 'em up. Enough to mount on four 'daily' riders and a few more to 
 replace any that stop working or suffer trauma, etc.. Shift levers are all 
 Dura-Ace 9 speed mounted on DT.

 All of them are now as sharp and precise as the day they were attached. 
 I don't ride gravel very often, my bikes are primarily built for the 
 road—so there is that. But for every-day riding on the road, I can't image 
 that giant spring softening up. And shifting up the cassette, especially 
 under load, is as smooth and quiet and 'effortless' as can be. I know 
 that's Grant's primary reasoning, because he told me.

 The one caveat—if there is one—is that if you suffer just a bit of 
 dyslexia as I do (a left/right kind of dys) my experience tells me I can't 
 go back and forth from 'low normal' to 'normal'. Makes me crazy. If you 
 can 
 always remember left from right, you'll probably have no problems. 

 With a bit of compulsive polishing, these M760s are gorgeous units and 
 will look perfectly 'at home' on any bike no matter the builder: 


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/48660635053/in/dateposted-public/

 Another probably unnecessary/stupid maneuver I habitually follow is 
 that when I park a bike at ride's end, I move the chain up the cassette to 
 relax the spring. Don't know if this really matters or not, but it makes 
 some sense to me.

 BEST / Jock Dewey / San Anselmo





 On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:09:31 PM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid Rise/Low 
> Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching.
>
> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that shifting 
> to lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the spring in the 
> derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the *spring* 
> pushes 
> the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people who had 
> used 
> RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to derailleurs 
> (they 
> get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that spring’s job harder, 
> with the result that it doesn’t work as well. 
>
> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in 
> pedaling pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job 
> easier). 
> That’s not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and 
> need 
> to grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was phased 
> out … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that 
> mostly prizes conformity.
>
> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride 
> almost exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>
> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one 
> before and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?*
>
> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own 
> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. The 
> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent 
> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few 
> weeks 
> ago. 
>
> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. 
> This model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. Silver, 
> shiny, long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide for a short 
> bit of housing over the rear dr