[RBW] Re: FS: Sackville SaddleSack Small - Blue - $140 shipped

[Dave Small]

So, used with knicks for 3.5% off the post-Rivendollar price of a new one?

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[RBW] Re: Univega

[Dave Small]

No offense, but this doesn't strike me as an appropriate question for this 
forum.  

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 11:48:30 AM UTC-5, Doug H. wrote:
>
> I’m thinking of buying this local off of Craigslist. Worth it? 
>
> https://athensga.craigslist.org/bik/d/univega-hybrid/6355043046.html

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[RBW] Re: FS: Large SaddleSack Olive

[Dave Small]

The bag looks perfect, but do you realize that if the buyer pays $10 for 
shipping then the price to the buyer is $3 more than the post-Rivendollar, 
post-$10-off-coupon price of a new one from Rivendell?

>
>

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[RBW] Re: Found Upright riding worse than drops riding.

[Dave Small]

I'm happy to see this thread.  I've tried upright bars on a V-O Polyvalent, 
then a V-O Campeur, and now a Rivendell Cheviot, and haven't fallen in love 
with the set-up on any of them.  They're okay, but just okay.  I don't find 
them as comfortable---as natural-feeling---as drops set at saddle height. 
 The Polyvalent still has porteur bars, which serves it well as an errand 
bike and grocery-getter, the Campeur I reverted back to drops, and I'm 
still evaluating the Cheviot.  I want to give it a long-enough trial to be 
fair to the concept, but I'm glad to know I'm not the outlier I thought I 
was.  


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[RBW] Re: perforated bar wrap

[Dave Small]

Hi Ted,

I wear gloves when riding, so don't have the sweat issue you described but 
I also don't see the holes getting gunked up with dirt of any other type. 
 But the few times I've ridden short distances I've found Brooks leather 
tape to be kinda slick, not as grippy as it feels with gloves.  If I were 
gonna ride skin-to-tape on a regular basis I'm not sure I'd go with 
leather, despite its other advantages.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Dave Small]

Yes, it has to be saddle height.  

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 9:51:51 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>
> I assume that by PBH he means seat height?
>

>

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[RBW] Re: WTB 60 Quickbeam or SimpleOne

[Dave Small]

FYI, I bought this bike.  I've been hankering to try this single-speed 
thang, and I've heard good things about the Quickbeam and Simpleone.  This 
one fits, is in good shape, and is fairly priced, so I thought it would be 
a good one with which to dive into the world of SS.  

I feel like such a hipster now!  Oh, waitthat's the fixie-thang, not 
SS---sorry.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: WTB 60 Quickbeam or SimpleOne

[Dave Small]

Thanks, Birman, and thanks for posting the link to the Craigslist ad.  I 
was remiss in not saying that earlier.  I wouldn't have seen it on my own, 
and appreciate you passing the information along.  

Dave

On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 5:24:35 PM UTC-5, Birdman wrote:
>
> Congrats! Very cool bike at a great price

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[RBW] Re: A Homer Hilsen vs LHT - Will I notice a difference?

[Dave Small]

I own a Hillborne and a Homer Hilsen, and used to own a LHT which I 
replaced with a V-O Campeur for heavier touring.  The Hillborne, LHT, and 
Campeur all ride like I expect a touring bike to ride, and ride similarly. 
 I know the Hillborne and Campeur do, and I know the Campeur and LHT do, 
'cause I compared them head-to-head.  The Hilsen feels sportier then the 
Hillborne, Campeur, and LHT.  All 4 bikes were set up similarly except the 
touring bikes had racks and the Hilsen didn't, so I think the difference is 
in the frames and not in differences between builds.  

Whether the Hilsen would feel as sporty with a 15-pound load on it, I don't 
know.  Last tour I took was on the Hillborne with an 18-20 lb load in back 
and a 4-lb load in front, and it rode very nicely.  If I were gonna carry 
that kind of load routinely I'd opt for the Hillborne or the Campeur, but 
with only several pounds of load I'd opt for the Hilsen 'cause it's a bit 
more spritely and fun.  They're also less expensive and are available now, 
if that matters.  

As far as your concern that concerned that you'd "be trading one heavy 
steel bike for another," I don't think so.   

On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 1:36:07 AM UTC-5, Drew Henson wrote:
>
> I currently own an LHT and it's been a great bike, but it's "too much" 
> bike for me.  I'm looking for something that would be snappier than the LHT 
> but still able to carry a 10-15 lb commuting load.  I've liked to looks of 
> an AHH for a long time but am concerned that I'd be trading one heavy steel 
> bike for another, without much difference in the ride when it comes down to 
> it. 
>
> Then there's the AHH vs Sam Hilborne debate I guess, which Rivendell 
> brought up themselves when I emailed asking about AHH availability..  So if 
> you've owned a Sam and an LHT I'd be interested in your experience as well.
>

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[RBW] Re: Four Senor Frank Jones left...

[Dave Small]

The remaining 57cm surprises me, since the 59cm sold out within seconds. 
 On the distribution curve of PBH I'd think that 57cm would be compatible 
with the peak, or at least very close to it.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cumil the Peeper sold me a Canti-Sam frameset

[Dave Small]

My story is the same:  60cm (which I bought) is a bit too big, the 56cm 
(which I test rode and didn't buy) was a bit too small, and the later 58cm 
version is just right.  I don't think the current 58cm equals the first-run 
56cm, either from my experience with them or the PBH recommendations--it's 
in between.  

On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 9:58:09 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
>
> Rod, I got the first run (2009) Sam in 60cm. I wish I had gotten a 56 in 
> retrospect. Finally I got a 58 (new run) and it’s perfect. I think it 
> equates to the first run 56cm.
>

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Dave Small]

Thanks much to everyone who responded.  I've read all the 
replies---twice---and here are my thoughts:

1.  A common theme is to try a long stem to get more extension.  I'll try 
that.  I don't think it'll help, but it's an easy experiment and I don't 
trust my expectations enough to *not* try it.  The stem on the bike now is 
100mm and I have a 120mm available, so I'll swap them.  BTW, this is why I 
like the threadless stem+riser setup so much; it's not as sleek, but I 
don't have to disassemble anything but the stem itself to change it out.  

2.  Raise or lower the bars.  Again, raising is easy and I'll try it.  I 
think it'll put me too much in the sit-up-and-beg position, which I don't 
think I'll like, but again (again!), I don't completely trust my 
expectations and it's easy to try.  I don't have enough room to lower them 
by more than a few millimeters, and flipping the Albas would be almost like 
trying another kind of bar, which leads me to.

3.  Try different upright bars.  I have a Bosco and an Albastache that I 
could try, but I'm not sure I'm motivated enough to do it even though I 
have the bars.  The Bosco would put me higher and further back; the former 
change I'll have mimicked by raising the Albas, and the latter change is 
the opposite of swapping to a longer stem to get more reach.  It's that 
sit-up-and-beg thing again.  I won't rule out trying the Albastache, mainly 
because I want to try them on *something* and here's my chance, but I think 
I'd be stretched way out unless I went with a shorter stembut I might 
try it to be sure.  As much as I'd like to like the Cheviot with uprights, 
swapping bars could lead down a rabbit hole of trial-and-error.  I won't 
rule it out if I learn something from #1 and #2 that leads me to believe 
that a certain bar would work, but I'm not inclined to go to exhaustive 
means to Find the Right Setup.  I'm happy with my Sams and my other bikes 
with drops, and was curious about upright-bar setups in general and the 
Cheviot specifically, but I might just be in the camp of "don't like 'em" 
and will want to cut my losses after trying a few reasonably easy 
solutions.  

4.  Try drop bars.  No one mentioned this option, but it's something I've 
considered.  As it's set up now, the reach to the center of the stem clamp 
is 1.5 cm longer than that on my Sams with Noodles, so I could replicate 
the Sam's reach on my Cheviot by replacing the 100mm stem with an 80mm 
stem.  Then what would I have, if not a Sam with longer chain stays and a 
stepover option that I don't use now anyway (old habits are hard to break)? 
 But I'm curious enough that I might try it to see.  It would let me assess 
the Cheviot as the only variable.  

That's it for now.  Again, thanks for everyone who weighed in.  If I learn 
anything relevant that might help others then I'll add another entry to 
this string.   


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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Dave Small]

Thanks, Bill.  I won't be afraid to conclude that I prefer drop bars, but 
want to be sure I'm evaluating the uprights properly and thoroughly, 
because if I conclude they're not for me then I'm never gonna try them 
again.  I started down this trail because I'd considered the Cheviot to be 
my eventual old-man bike, and wanted to know if would be suitable for that. 
 Variables can be confounded so I might think Thing A is the problem when 
it's really Thing B, but which affects Thing A and is misleading me.  I 
tend to overthink things like that, and want to be sure that any conclusion 
about the unsuitability of uprights for my riding is justified, but if it 
ends up there then so be it.  

Dave

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 12:19:49 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Don't be afraid to conclude that you just prefer drop bars. I run my Rosco 
> Bubbe step through with drop bars and I like it very much. I think a 
> Cheviut with drop bars could be a really slick setup.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Dave Small]

Thanks to everyone for the continued discussion.  My experimentation phase 
has waned, but it hasn't disappeared.  I also know what I like and what 
works for me---for now.  But my preferences have changed over the past 10 
years, and are continuing to change.  I'm trying the anticipate my 
continued evolution, with mixed results.  

I find this intriguing about all the responses:  

One camp says "I tried uprights and loved 'em right away; they're the 
best!"  Probably not many fall into this camp, but I've read those 
testimonials.

Another says "I tried uprights and didn't like 'em at first, but then I 
found the right combination of handlebars/bar height/stem extension/bar 
angle/grips that worked for me, and now I love 'em!"

And a third camp says "Don't like 'em.  I tried this and that and other 
things---42 things in all---and I never found something that feels good."

It may be that the only thing separating the third camp from the second 
camp is the 43rd attempt, and the question becomes how motivated is that 
Third Camper to continue experimenting in the hope of becoming a Second 
Camper?  That person never knows that the next combination of factors won't 
work, he or she finally just gives up.  

When I think about why I care, I realize that I'm just curious---have been 
for a long time, and I've often acted on that curiosity by trying new 
things.  Lord knows I don't need to; I have more bikes that I can justify 
even to myself, much less my wife, and I love enough of them enough on 
every level that I don't need to follow any more strings.  I say I want to 
go the N-1 route, but then I continue to buy bikes I don't need---'cause I 
think they'll be great (and usually they are)---and I struggle to find ways 
to "save" bikes that don't seem to work well for me---such as the 
Cheviot---when I should be saying "oh well, nice try and I learned 
something."  

So much for my inner workings.  Back to the Cheviot:  I took it for a short 
ride last night and simulated body positions that I'd expect from a longer 
stem and also from higher bars.  I'm gonna try those changes because 
they're easy to implement, and see if that helps.  I don't know why I want 
to like the Cheviot but I do, and I'll try a few more things but will stop 
well before #42.  I think.  


On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:19:08 AM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> My experimentation phase is waning. I know what I like and what works for 
> me. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My trials and tribulations with upright bars

[Dave Small]

Quick update:

dstein, the blog post you linked to resonated with me.  I, too, have fought 
a Bosco-high setup, deliberately going for an upright build that's not *too* 
upright so isn't sit-up-and-beg.  But the blog post's author finally 
realized that Grant knew more about bikes than *he* did, so gave the Boscos 
a try and loved 'em.  I didn't want to uninstall and then install bars on 
speculation that I'd react similarly, but I raised my stem to the minimum 
insertion point (about 2 inches) to get partially more Bosco-like and took 
it for a couple spins around the block.  Not far, mind you, but enough to 
know if I'd hate it.  I didn't---in fact, I might have even liked it a 
little.  Less pressure on my hands, which wouldn't be a big deal after only 
a couple of miles, but it suggests that the change was in the right 
direction.  Holding the grips I'm still 17% in Tweenerville, but I was 
there 72% before so again, the right direction.  And when I reached forward 
to hold the furthest-forward point of the bars, it felt good.  

The position is still unfamiliar to me, and I feel 8 feet tall in the 
saddle, but I can get used to that and adapt.  I'll take it for a longer 
ride when I get a chance---not tonight---and see how that works out.

By the way, I'm not planning to take this touring, and have plenty of other 
bikes to take for longer rides.  I'd like to be able to enjoy this for, 
say, a 13-mile ride which is the up-and-back distance of a local trail 
that's sometimes relaxing after work.  Or to the store, or just buzzing 
around the neighborhood for 8-10 miles.  The 24-mile ride was unplanned, 
but I extended my initial ride to see if I'd acclimate to a position that 
seemed awkward over the first 10 or so miles.  I didn't, and it got worse.  

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

[Dave Small]

I have a couple of thoughts:

I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or 
fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate 
tires of at least 32mm and preferably wider.  Offhand I can think of a few 
specific models from other companies that meet those criteria, but Riv has 
a line-up of them.  My criteria describe Riv's core philosophy, despite the 
relatively recent introduction of TIG-welded models.  The specific models 
from other companies are about the same price as a Sam frame or are more 
expensive, so comparing like-to-like, Riv is priced competitively. 
 Comparing Riv to, say, Surly or Salsa or other mass-produced Chinese 
frames, Riv is "overpriced" but Grant acknowledges the better value of a 
Surly frame if all you care about is utility.  I want more than that (and I 
own a Cross Check, so know the differences firsthand) 

I respect entrepreneurs in general, what Grant's done specifically, and 
I've been pretty heavily influenced by him over the past 5 or so years.  I 
like what the company is about, I like the people who work there, and I 
want them to succeed.  Grant's been open about Riv's financial woes over 
the years, and I want to help when I can.  I feel the same way about 
another small bicycle company with whom I have a closer relationship than I 
have with Rivendell, and I also support them with my dollars whenever I 
can.  This isn't altruism, but it's a conscious decision on my part to send 
my dollars to people who fill a niche I believe in, who've been good to me 
over the years, and whose success I want to *actively* contribute to.  I'm 
not just a satisfied customer, I'm a loyal customer, and I get satisfaction 
out of knowing that in a small way I'm contributing to their continued 
success.  

I love Waterford (and BTW, that's not the company I referred to above).  I 
own 2 Waterford-badged road bikes, owned a Waterford-badged racing bike 
that I recently sold, and own a Waterford-built Homer Hilsen.  I tell 
people that Richard Schwinn must have a pot of magic-dust that he applies a 
little of to each bike they make, 'cause they all ride beautifully.  All 4 
are outstanding bikes, but that excellence comes from a combination of many 
factors, especially build quality and design; it's not just about brazing 
technique.  The craftsmen in Taiwan are just as capable as the Craftsmen in 
Wisconsin, and I wouldn't foresee any difference in overall build quality 
or ride quality between an identical model made at Waterford or in a good 
shop in Taiwan.  The Taiwanese Sams and the Cheviot I have are just as 
pretty and well put-together as my Waterford-built bikes, but I can't 
compare them directly because they differ in design and purpose.  

Based solely on price, I don't foresee ever buying a custom Riv.  There's 
an excellent local builder who'd build a custom lugged or fillet-brazed 
steel frame and fork with all the bells and whistles I'd want for 
(currently) $2350 or less.  I'd go that route and get a bike just as nice 
for much less than a Riv custom.  A lot of good builders exist who would 
build a nice custom in the same ballpark of price, so in that respect Riv's 
custom prices do seem high.  It's a good thing that custom orders aren't 
their bread and butter.   

Last and least, I'm glad I took advantage of the recent Sam and Cheviot 
presale on the day they were $1000; that was a great price even then, and 
as of today it's even better!

Dave (yes, that's my real name)

>
>

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[RBW] Re: and a triple crank?

[Dave Small]

I'm intrigued that the list of numbers in the original post has generated 8 
replies so far (not counting Garth's) that address some perceived question 
or issue that I can't decipher.  Are you all that much smarter than I am?  

No need to answer that---it's a rhetorical question!  

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:15:33 PM UTC-4, bo richardson wrote:
>
> the standard 46 or 48
> 36
> 28+/-

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Re: [RBW] 58 Appaloosa Build (a tale of two bike frames)

[Dave Small]

I've had a similar experience but in reverse.  In 2012 I bought a 60cm 
first-run Sam Hillborne that on paper fit me.  My 88cm PBH was at the 
bottom of the recommended range, but it was in the range.  My PBH was also 
at the *top* of the recommended range on the 56cm model.  I could have gone 
with either one but knew that Riv espoused going with the biggest frame 
that'll fit, and took their recommendation.  I liked the bike but couldn't 
get myself to love it---it felt a little too big.  

That presented a quandary for me:  Was it the model, the size, or the "Riv 
ride" in general that I didn't love?  I eliminated the "Riv ride" as a 
problem by buying a used Homer Hilsen on ebay; after just one 35-mile ride 
I determined that if I'm ever forced to reduce my stable to one bike, the 
Homer is a strong candidate to be that one.  So it was down to model and 
size as the two remaining variables.  When Riv brought out their 58cm 
single-top-tube version a few years ago, I was smack in the middle of the 
PBH range and bought a complete bike.  I loved it immediately.  

The size was the issue.  The only difference was 2cm in sizing and a couple 
of minor tweaks to the geometry (front/center had become shorter, I think). 
 The contact points on the two builds were spaced about the same, but the 
60cm Sam just *felt* a little too big while the 58cm Sam felt perfect.  I 
now don't buy Riv models for which I'm at the edges of 2 overlapping 
ranges, and instead consider only those for which that I'm firmly planted 
in the middle of a range.  



>

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Re: [RBW] 59cm MIT Atlantis build and (short) ride report

[Dave Small]

Congrats on the new bike, Brynnar.  I don't care much for the look of 
parallel double top tubes, but I really dig that curvy mid-tube.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: How rusty does the inside of a frame get without rust proofing? This rusty.

[Dave Small]

Thanks, Reed.  Whenever I've bought a new or used frame, unfettered with 
components, I've been sure to Framesave it.  The thread a month ago made me 
question whether I needed to do that, and this clinches it.  I'll stop 
wasting my time and money.  I store my bikes inside a garage or house and 
take good care of them, and won't live long enough for rust to become an 
issue.  

Dave

>
>

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Re: [RBW] What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[Dave Small]

A Roadeo made in Taiwan, priced like a Sam or Cheviot. Or a lugged Roadini. 
 

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones Sr. slightly-rugged build

[Dave Small]

Jeremy,

On a concurrent Frank Jones thread, Belopsky linked to the information Riv 
posted on the blahg about the Jones.  It had the following sentence:

"*Headset:* Included, our standard FSA sealed—saves you $55"

Dave
Indianapolis, IN


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 9:38:47 PM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>
>
> I was under the impression these came with headset installed..?
>

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[RBW] Re: 57 cm Blue Frank Jones Sr

[Dave Small]

Interesting; not sure I'd have noticed that.  

On a concurrent Frank Jones thread, Grant wrote that internally they call 
the Jones dropout the "alligator dropout."  I didn't understand that when I 
read it, but I read it 3 minutes ago and then saw this picture and it was 
the first thing I noticed.  I get it now.  

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 8:16:49 AM UTC-5, lconley wrote:
>
> I love details. Note the RBW logo on the inside of the dropout:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: last chance for 53cm Frank Jones

[Dave Small]

Then this appears to be your lucky day.  

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:06:59 AM UTC-5, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> I’d like one. 53 is my size i think

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[RBW] Re: Informal poll: Sam Hillborne sizing, 6' tall about an 85PBH?

[Dave Small]

Hi John,

My experience may help you decide, but to cut to the chase:  I'd recommend 
not going outside Riv's PBH recommendations, and in fact I don't want to go 
even to the edge of their recommended range.  

In 2012 I bought a green 60cm first-run Sam.  I worked with a dealer in 
Ohio and test-rode a 56cm and a 60cm.  I could have bought either one, but 
at the time I was new to Riv and went with the larger size in part to test 
their opinion that "most people buy too small" and their advice that, when 
in doubt, go bigger.  I'm 6' 2" with a PBH of 88 cm, which was within the 
recommended range of the 56cm *and* the 60cm frame sizes, but was at the 
top of the former and the bottom of the latter.  

I could never love that Sam.  It was okay, but always felt a little too 
big, even after riding it enough that I'd have acclimated if the issue was 
just that it wasn't what I was used to.  I questioned whether it was the 
size, the specific model, or (gads!) a fallacy of the whole Riv philosophy, 
since all were new to me at the time.  I *wanted* to love it, and I *tried*---I 
really did!---but I just never felt it the way I wanted to or expected to.  

Then, a couple of years ago I bought a used 58cm Homer Hilsen in large part 
to give Riv another chance because what they espouse still resonated with 
me, and I suspected that the size was the problem, not the model or the 
company's design philosophy.  I loved the Hilsen immediately, and after my 
first ride told my wife that if I were forced to reduce to N=1, that the 
Hilsen was a strong candidate to be that one.  

With that renewed confidence in Riv, a couple of years ago I bought a 58cm 
Sam when they became available with a single top tube in that size, and 
loved it immediately.  The differences in "feel" between that and the 60cm 
Sam were subtle but real, and took me over the hump from "okay" to "love." 
 Last fall I bought a 58cm canti-Sam during their presale and will transfer 
everything from the 60cm first-run Sam (which had cantis) to the new one 
and then sell the green 60cm frame.  

Based on my experience with Sams, I want to be solidly in the middle of 
Riv's PBH range-recommendation.  Not at the edge, and certainly not outside 
it.  I was at the bottom of the range for the 60cm Sam, while you're 2 cm 
below the bottom edge of the range.  You say you're concerned about getting 
a bike that's too small for you, but you should also be concerned about 
getting a bike that's too big for you; neither one will fit well.  

My last comment:  You say "Riv recommends a size 55 frame, but I know I 
could ride a 58" and that the 58 "looks doable," but that's the kind of 
language I'd expect if someone were giving you a 58cm Sam free of charge 
and you were wondering if it would work at all.  You have a choice, so why 
not go for the optimal size?  I can ride my 60cm Sam, and it's quite 
"doable," but it's not optimal and I want optimal if I can get it.  

Dave 

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[RBW] Re: I'm the best at bad photos - Frank Jones Jr

[Dave Small]

Frank has a son?

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[RBW] Re: First Riv/NYC RO

[Dave Small]

Hi Jacob,

I like your rear-basket setup.  It looks like a large Wald basket on a 
Pletscher rack.  Do I have that right?  I've been thinking about doing 
something like that for a mail- and grocery go-getter, and like how big 
yours looks.  It would fit decent-sized boxes, or as much lettuce as I 
could carry.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Rivendell Poster

[Dave Small]

I bought this poster from Riv when it was first offered, had it 
professionally framed and hung it, and even my 
couldn't-care-less-about-bikes wife likes it.  


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[RBW] Re: wtb: Homer Hilsen - 59cm

[Dave Small]

I don't consider these substitutable.  I mean, yeah, you can substitute a 
Sam for a Homer, but they ride differently.  If I wanted a Hilsen, I'd get 
a Hilsen.  I wouldn't recommend getting a Sam thinking it's a Hilsen.

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 3:17:33 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> If I was in the market for a used 59cm Hilsen, I would give serious 
> consideration to a NEW 55cm canti-Hillborne.  
>>
>> Thanks!! 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: wtb: Homer Hilsen - 59cm

[Dave Small]

Hi Bill,

My comment reflected only my opinion that the models ride a little 
differently.  I own both now, so like you I can directly compare them. 
 There's not a *lot* of difference between them, but in general I find the 
Hilsen to be a little sportier and a little more fun.  I have them set up a 
little differently, with racks and wider-tougher tires on the Sam, so that 
could contribute to the difference I feel but I don't think it explains all 
of it.  I prefer the Hilsen for general fun-rides and take the Sam for 
short tours, although both models could handle both tasks albeit maybe just 
a little better or worse than the other, depending on the task.  After my 
first ride on the Hilsen I told my wife that if I were ever forced to trim 
to N=1, the Hilsen would be a strong contender to be that one.  I've never 
felt that way about the Sam, but I guess I might if I didn't have the 
Hilsen.  

I remember a thread a few months back on the subject of Sam versus Homer, 
with many posters reflecting your opinion and many others reflecting mine. 
 It was interesting to watch that discussion develop since I had a definite 
opinion and so many of the initial responders disagreed with it.  I think 
it's safe to say that if there's a difference, it's not a big one.  

Dave

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 1:03:53 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Dave Small stated that he does not consider the Hillborne and the Hilsen 
> functionally equivalent.  
>
> I respect that opinion but I respectfully disagree with it, as it applies 
> to myself.  I owned them both, both at the same time.  I considered them 
> functionally equivalent, so I sold the "expensive" one and kept the 
> "inexpensive" one.  The inexpensive one (Hillborne) happened to have more 
> natural versatility because it has cantilever brakes, and greater resulting 
> clearances.  It is definitely possible that I don't have the sensitivity to 
> detect the differences that others may detect.  The geometry is virtually 
> identical so that contribution to "ride" should be identical.  I definitely 
> did not possess the sensitivity to detect "planing" differences between my 
> Hilsen and my Hillborne.  I rode the Hilsen a lot more than I rode the 
> Hillborne, because, of course, it was the 'nicer' bike.  I detected no 
> difference in the ride quality between the two.  Others more sensitive than 
> me or who ride a lot more than me might detect something.  The Hilsen is 
> certainly no worse than the Hillborne.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Dave Small wrote:
>>
>> I don't consider these substitutable.  I mean, yeah, you can substitute a 
>> Sam for a Homer, but they ride differently.  If I wanted a Hilsen, I'd get 
>> a Hilsen.  I wouldn't recommend getting a Sam thinking it's a Hilsen.
>>
>> On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 3:17:33 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> If I was in the market for a used 59cm Hilsen, I would give serious 
>>> consideration to a NEW 55cm canti-Hillborne.  
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!! 
>>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB Nitto M1 Mark Rack

[Dave Small]

Thanks, Lum.  Will this work with a canti-Sam, attaching to the external 
braze-on that Riv puts where it does on the Sam?  Looks like it will, but 
would like to confirm, if anyone knows.  

The difference in weight ratings suggests to me that the ratings are nearly 
arbitrary, but I never did buy into the 4-pound limit on the Mark's rack.  

On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 1:29:39 AM UTC-5, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> You can also get a Nitto M18. 
> Looks the same but without the front tang. 
>
> And has a much higher load weight safety rating than a Mark’s.

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[RBW] Re: Riv request for store credits

[Dave Small]

This was remarkable to watch, and I'm glad I was able to participate.  I've 
tried to think of another business that would have been able to pull this 
off, and was unable to.  I talked to Roman last week about an order I'd 
placed and during the conversation he mentioned that the response was 
better than they'd expected, and I told him that Riv's customer base was 
narrow but was deep and loyal.   

Can anyone else think of another business with the kind of base that would 
have responded the way Riv's did?  I'm truly curious.  There must be some, 
but I can't think of any.  

Dave


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[RBW] Re: wtb: Homer Hilsen - 59cm

[Dave Small]

Hi Bill,

What you're saying, in essence, is that I'm underestimating the effect of 
the "build objective" on the ride.  I'm not curious enough to test your 
hypothesis in this case, but you may well be right.  If so, then that could 
explain the divergence of opinion I saw in the previous thread I 
referenced.  

Dave


On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 3:36:20 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Part of it for me probably hinges on the fact that I'm a mechanic.  As a 
> mechanic, the frame and the parts are the paints and the canvas, andthe 
> frame.  As the mechanic, I'm the painter.  The build is the thing, to me.  
> For exactly the same reason you said: "I wouldn't recommend getting a Sam 
> thinking it's a Hilsen", I would say: "I wouldn't recommend putting racks 
> and heavy tires on one bike thinking it's a sporty build".  You built your 
> Sam not to be sporty, so it's not.  You built your Hilsen to be sporty, so 
> it is.  If you flipped your intentions, I bet you would succeed.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 12:25:39 PM UTC-8, Dave Small wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> My comment reflected only my opinion that the models ride a little 
>> differently.  I own both now, so like you I can directly compare them. 
>>  There's not a *lot* of difference between them, but in general I find 
>> the Hilsen to be a little sportier and a little more fun.  I have them set 
>> up a little differently, with racks and wider-tougher tires on the Sam, so 
>> that could contribute to the difference I feel but I don't think it 
>> explains all of it.  I prefer the Hilsen for general fun-rides and take the 
>> Sam for short tours, although both models could handle both tasks albeit 
>> maybe just a little better or worse than the other, depending on the task. 
>>  After my first ride on the Hilsen I told my wife that if I were ever 
>> forced to trim to N=1, the Hilsen would be a strong contender to be that 
>> one.  I've never felt that way about the Sam, but I guess I might if I 
>> didn't have the Hilsen.  
>>
>> I remember a thread a few months back on the subject of Sam versus Homer, 
>> with many posters reflecting your opinion and many others reflecting mine. 
>>  It was interesting to watch that discussion develop since I had a definite 
>> opinion and so many of the initial responders disagreed with it.  I think 
>> it's safe to say that if there's a difference, it's not a big one.  
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 1:03:53 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Dave Small stated that he does not consider the Hillborne and the Hilsen 
>>> functionally equivalent.  
>>>
>>> I respect that opinion but I respectfully disagree with it, as it 
>>> applies to myself.  I owned them both, both at the same time.  I considered 
>>> them functionally equivalent, so I sold the "expensive" one and kept the 
>>> "inexpensive" one.  The inexpensive one (Hillborne) happened to have more 
>>> natural versatility because it has cantilever brakes, and greater resulting 
>>> clearances.  It is definitely possible that I don't have the sensitivity to 
>>> detect the differences that others may detect.  The geometry is virtually 
>>> identical so that contribution to "ride" should be identical.  I definitely 
>>> did not possess the sensitivity to detect "planing" differences between my 
>>> Hilsen and my Hillborne.  I rode the Hilsen a lot more than I rode the 
>>> Hillborne, because, of course, it was the 'nicer' bike.  I detected no 
>>> difference in the ride quality between the two.  Others more sensitive than 
>>> me or who ride a lot more than me might detect something.  The Hilsen is 
>>> certainly no worse than the Hillborne.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Dave Small wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't consider these substitutable.  I mean, yeah, you can substitute 
>>>> a Sam for a Homer, but they ride differently.  If I wanted a Hilsen, I'd 
>>>> get a Hilsen.  I wouldn't recommend getting a Sam thinking it's a Hilsen.  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 3:17:33 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If I was in the market for a used 59cm Hilsen, I would give serious 
>>>>> consideration to a NEW 55cm canti-Hillborne.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!! 
>>>>>>
>>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Dumb question- silent rear hub

[Dave Small]

Not sure about that specific hub---I can't remember whether my LX hub(s) 
ratchet(s) or not---but on some bikes the hub ratchets and on some it 
doesn't.  I think of both as normal.  


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[RBW] Re: FS: Panaracer Pasela 700x32 & Berthoud Leather Saddle

[Dave Small]

It's incumbent on sellers to set a price, not just solicit offers.  

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Dave Small]

76


On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Dave Small]

76

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Dave Small]

I've been out on a 6-day tour and mostly offline, and got home today to the 
Blug and this 128-post (as I type) string.  I've just read through 'em all 
and Scott is the only one who's broached the thing I latched onto when I 
read the Blug:  What is a "combo tig-fillet BB shell?"  Does anyone know? 
 I'm as happy with fillet-brazed as I am with lugged, but I'm not enamored 
with TIG.

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:30:22 PM UTC-4, Scott McLain wrote:
>
> I would be interested in learning what drove the decision on the bottom 
> bracket shell/ lug whatever.  Fillet brazed doesn’t sound as good as 
> lugged.   
>
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Dave Small]

By the way, John, thanks for offering this.  It's quite generous of you.

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Dave Small]

I didn't know these mugs existed until 2 minutes ago, and now I want one! 
 Or 2or maybe 4.  


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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Dave Small]

iamkeith,

Thanks for answering my question.  I've always assumed that a joint on a 
steel bike could be lugged, fillet-brazed, or TIG-welded, and the mention 
of both fillet-brazed and TIG-welded for the BB threw me.  Since there's 
more than one joint I guess some could be welded and some filleted, and I 
hadn't considered that, or the weld could be covered---another option I 
hadn't considered.  I'll wait for more information from Riv, I guess.  

BTW, I don't remember TIG-welding ever being mentioned in the context of 
Frank Jones Sr; if I recall correctly the BB was described only as 
fillet-brazed.  

Dave


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[RBW] Re: FS/T: Sackville SaddleSack Medium

[Dave Small]

Hi Max,

I have several Sackville bags in the color labelled "tan," and on my 
monitor this looks like the same color.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: New Atlantis Pre-sale page is up on rivbike.com

[Dave Small]

Hi all.  I've been out of town and mostly offline for 4 days and am 
catching up.  I've looked through this string and read the new postings on 
Riv's site, and don't see PBH recommendations for the new Atlantis.  Has 
Riv posted them anywhere?  Thanks.  


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[RBW] Re: New Atlantis Pre-sale page is up on rivbike.com

[Dave Small]

Thanks, Dave and iamkeith.  I'll do some cipherin' and figure out what I 
would need.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Atlantis Pre-sale page is up on rivbike.com

[Dave Small]

Hi Dave,

That's what I do, too.  My PBH is 88cm.  Extrapolating from the Appaloosa: 
 Based on predicted standover height I might take a 59cm, but then the TT 
would probably be too long and it would have a double TT, which I don't 
want.  The standover on a 56cm is a little lower than I have with most 
Rivs, but the predicted TT would be in line with what I'm used to and know 
I like.  The key words in those 2 sentences are "predicted," "probably," 
and "might."  

I'll call Riv.  I don't want to base a sizing decision on speculation, and 
I've come to trust their opinion as much as---and sometimes even more 
than---my own.  

Dave

On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 8:13:25 AM UTC-4, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
> As Keith points out standover heights are listed so you can also do 
> PBH - 2.54 = standover as a starting point. That is to say the 
> Standover should be 1in less than PBH (1 in crotch clearance in bare 
> feet).
>
> If I'm between sizes I also take top tube length into account when 
> using drops
>

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[RBW] Re: When requesting to contacted off list

[Dave Small]

Tim,

Jim is correct. When I first registered for this forum I used a Yahoo email 
address, and got rejected each time---and like you, lost out on some 
opportunities.  I switched my email address to a .mac address and that 
solved the problem. 

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog and Coconut Oil

[Dave Small]

I've done my own research on cholesterol and agree with Deacon.  

I've been keto since last June.  I pig out on meat and eggs and low-carb 
vegetables, and don't count calories but keep my daily carb count below 
about 35 grams.  During the first 6 months or so I lost weight, rapidly at 
first then more slowly until it leveled off and has been remarkably 
consistent over the past 3 months or so.  I now weigh more than I did in 
high school but less than I did in college, which I never ever thought 
would happen.  I feel better, look better, have more energy, and the belly 
I carried with me for 40 years is gone.  I could go on, but it's all in the 
same vein.  The only downside is that I've had to buy all new clothes, but 
I can live with that.  

I was scheduled to go in for a physical about a month after I started keto, 
and postponed it 3 months so I'd be stable on keto when I had my blood work 
done.  All my blood lipids were well within the "normal" range, and my 
total cholesterol was lower than it's ever been.  I've never had a total 
cholesterol concentration that was above the threshold for "high," but it 
was typically not far south of that.  It's 35 points lower now, and well 
within anyone's definition of normal. It's counterintuitive that all those 
ribs and sausage and eggs and hamburger would lower my cholesterol, but it 
did.  

I've come to believe that most of what we've been taught about diet is 
wrong.  Cholesterol has long been one of the medical community's boogymen, 
and I just don't buy it.  I don't see that eliminating coconut oil will do 
anything, but if you want to try it then it certainly won't hurt anything.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Riv complete: appropriate mechanical expectations?

[Dave Small]

I've bought several frames from Riv but only one complete bike---a Sam from 
their 2016 batch.  From what I've read or been told, the Sam was assembled 
in Taiwan, shipped to the US where Riv unpacked it, made sure everything 
was put together correctly and tweaked what needed to be tweaked, repacked 
the complete bike and then shipped it to its final home.  I never saw any 
mention of rustproofing, and didn't expect it given its Taiwanese assembly. 
 If it was rustproofed then that's a pleasant surprise, but I think Riv 
would have mentioned that in their pitch if it were the case.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Keto next week: how do i not bonk?

[Dave Small]

Hi Lum,

It takes 2-3 days to go into ketosis, but your body takes longer than that 
to become "keto-adapted" to the point that it's efficient at using fat for 
fuel.  It's a gradual process.  I've read that it typically takes about 3 
weeks to become mostly keto-adapted, but online fora tell tales of folks 
who took 6-8 weeks.  

Last summer I left for a 7-day tour a few days short of my 3-week 
anniversary of starting keto.  We rode 46 to 73 miles each day.  I didn't 
eat breakfast.  About 20 miles into the ride I ate a handful of cashews or 
almonds.  About 20-25 miles after that we usually stopped to eat a meal, 
which in my case was an omelette with sausage or a salad with chicken or 
tuna.  That evening we ate a good-sized dinner, and by "good-sized" I mean 
"big."  Fuel-wise it was the best tour I'd taken to date.  

In March we did a 6-day tour in Florida; similar routine and distances, 
with similar results.  

You'll be fine.  Stay off the carbs, take it slowly for the first few 
weeks, and your body will adapt.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Seems I stumbled across the most(?) Rivendell-like alternative out there

[Dave Small]

I just looked at their website and they're offering seemingly-nice complete 
bikes for $400 to $750 and that includes delivery to, and assembly by, a 
local bike shop?  How can they do that?

Dave

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[RBW] Re: FS: 2001 Riv Custom $2100

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Max,

What's the standover height?

Dave

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 5:57:29 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Per my other thread, I've decided to downsize from 4 to 2 (or maybe 1) 
> bikes so here it goes. I hope I don't regret letting this one go, but I 
> have to start somewhere and this one isn't getting the miles it deserves.
>
> Price is $2,100 + packing & shipping (or local pickup in MA)
>
> 2001 Joe Starck / Joe Bell - Custom Road serial# 01JS114 - I'm the second 
> owner.
>
> This is the first bike that I spec'd from the frame up and worked with 
> James at Analog Cycles to complete the build. Please note that when I 
> bought the frame it had a small bulge in the top tube (see photo), James 
> looked at it and determined that it was safe to ride. It also has a few 
> scratches and a few touch up spots here and there but it's in overall great 
> condition.
>
> It rides great, very responsive and nimble... this bike is very light. I 
> probably put in less than 100 miles since I built it up (I spent 8 months 
> away from Boston in 2020/2021)
>
> I'm 5'11" with a 91 pbh (I have long legs) and my saddle height is 80.5cm
>
> Here are the details:
> 62cm c-t, 59cm top tube, 130 rear spacing
> Frame prep by Analog including frame saver
>
> Wheels came used from James at Analog - I don’t have the details, but I 
> remember him saying something about ceramic? Anyways, the tires are green 
> Jack Brown 33.333 from Riv
>
> Drivetrain: White Industries 180mm cranks, 46/30
> Cassette: 11-32 XT M760 cassette
> IRD Bottom Bracket
>
> 9s FSA "Team Issue" chain
> Terry Fly Tri Gel Saddle & Nitto seat post included
>
> Chris King Headset
> Nitto Noodle 46 cm bars
> Dura Ace Shifters - Bar End - Shimano Dura Ace, 9 Speed
> Paul Racer M Centerpull (this is my best braking bike by far)
> Brake Levers - Road - TRP - RRL SR, Drilled, Gum Hood
> VO Sabot  Pedals included
> Bottle Cage (Nitto I think?) included
>
> Packing & Shipping will probably run about $150 and given how backed up 
> the local LBS are, it might take a few weeks, so please keep that in mind.
>
> Please let me know if you have questions.
>
> Max
> downsizing and doubting the downsizing
> [image: IMG_1661 (1).jpeg]
> [image: IMG_2680.jpeg]
> [image: IMG_1663.jpeg]
> [image: IMG_1662.jpeg]
> [image: IMG_2683.jpeg]
> [image: IMG_2674.jpeg]
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62cm Sam Hillborne

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Will.  Too big for me, but I want to ask how you like Boscos on the Sam. 
 I have a 60cm green V1 Sam that feels just a little big for me despite a 
70cm stem extension, and am considering upright bars to mitigate that. 
 I've used drop bars all my life, so can't extrapolate my experience very 
well to high bars like the Bosco.  Thanks.

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 8:10:51 PM UTC-5, Will Ashe wrote:
>
> Hey y'all, 
>
> I've reluctantly decided to part with my 62cm Black and Cream Sam. My wife 
> and I live in a small, one bedroom apartment, and having a big bike in the 
> hallway has been irking both of us since I got it. Here's a list of 
> everything you'll want to know about the bike;
>
> Sugino Triple Cranks
> Shimano Deore derailers
> VP Vice pedals
> Shimano Dura Ace bar ends
> 58cm Boscos
> Nitto stem
> Velocity Atlas rims 
> Soma Cazadero gumwall tires (about 150 miles)
> Nitto Campee 27f front rack
> Wald 137
> Green Carradice Kendal panniers (nearly new condition)
> Tan Acorn saddlebag (beausage galore)
> Carradice Bagman support
> Zefal frame pump
> King Cage bottle cages
> Tektro brakes
> Crane bell
>
> I'm asking $2400 obo. More photos upon request. Please don't hesitate to 
> let me know if I've forgotten anything, or if you have any questions.
>
> Will Ashe
> Santa Monica, CA
>
> p.s. I'll be replacing this with a Brompton, for now...
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62cm Sam Hillborne

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, Will.  I was leaning that way but since you had this set-up, 
thought I'd ask.  

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 10:37:52 AM UTC-5, Will Ashe wrote:
>
> I like Boscos just fine. I do feel like they're better suited to a longer 
> bike like a Cheviot, but they work well for my riding. 
>
> I'd consider trying Albatross bars first, I feel like that's an easier 
> transition from drops. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Decisions, Decisions... Too few? Too many? Just right??

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Barry Schwartz wrote a book on this subject, titled "The Paradox of Choice: 
 Why More is Less."  It's excellent, and has changed my approach to 
decision-making regarding purchases.  It's quite readable and entertaining, 
and I highly recommend it.  

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[RBW] WTT: My Albatross bar for your Albastache bar

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi all.  I have a new, aluminum, never-mounted Albatross bar that I'd like 
to trade for an Albastache bar.  We each pay our own shipping.  Anyone 
interested?  

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[RBW] Re: Bags

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You say "that limits me to the Small or the Medium Sackville," but that 
assumes that you're limiting yourself to Sackville bags.  I use large and 
medium Saddlesacks with a rack, and don't think I'd like them without a 
rack to support them---I think they'd sag too much for my liking (but 
apparently not enough for others' liking, and I defer to them if they've 
tried it because I haven't).  If you insist on no rack in back, I'd suggest 
looking at Carradice bags.  They're good canvas bags in the old-school 
tradition, are less expensive than Sackville bags, and are available in a 
nearly-continuous range of sizes.  

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 8:47:32 AM UTC-4, Broccoli Cog wrote:
>
> Hi everyone, I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on a new saddle 
> bag for my Sam. My current setup is I have a Mark's rack on the front 
> combined with a Wald 137 Basket and a Swift Industries Sugar Loaf bag. My 
> saddlebag is a Sackville X-small. This is a great set up for all around 
> riding. I am considering adding a saddle bag that will allow me to carry 
> some extra cargo. I don't have a rear rack and don't have any intention of 
> adding one. That limits me to the Small or the Medium Sackville. I am 
> trying to decide between these two sizes and I am not sure what to do. My 
> goal is to have a bag big enough for commuting and possibly some S24O 
> trips. I don't currently have the gear for the overnight camping and wonder 
> really how much I'll get to do that. I was initially leaning towards the 
> small but thought why not get the medium. I might be happy to have the 
> extra space when I need it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 
>
> Tim
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: 56cm Atlantis/ 60cm Cheviot

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Eric.  PM sent.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vintage

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Randall,

I'm pretty sure the bike you describe was their second batch, the first one 
being green with gold decals.  Both of those batches were single-color, so 
no cream head tubes.  

Dave
Boston/Indy

On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 5:49:41 PM UTC-5, Randall Rupp wrote:
>
> I have a Sam Hillborne that I got through this list sometime 2012, it's 
> orange with side pull brakes, but the headtube is not filled in with the 
> cream color like all the other one's I've seen.  It's just orange like the 
> rest of the bike.  Was that a one batch mistake or were the early ones 
> produced that way?
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Platform pedal recommendations

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm a fan of VO's Sabot.  It has a large platform (100mm by 100mm, IIRC), 
is aluminum and silver, and has shortish rounded pins for grip.  The pins 
don't rip up my shoes, but they also don't grip well when the pedal's wet. 
 That last bit is their one downside, but it's a price I'm willing to pay 
for pins that don't chew up my soles.

Dave
Boston/Indy

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[RBW] Re: #%*#! Fenders!!!!

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I bought a complete "drop bar" Sam from Rivendell last summer, with 
sidepull brakes.  It sounds like we have the same era Sam.  I run the 38mm 
Kendra tires that came on it, and installed Velo Orange 52mm Zeppelin 
fenders front and rear and a Mark's rack in front.  Everything fits well, 
is quiet (for now, anyway), and looks great.  I mention this in case you'd 
consider reasonably-priced metal fenders to solve your problem.  

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[RBW] Re: For Sale: Various parts, bags, racks, handlebars, etc.

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'll take the Acorn Small Rando bag.  Sorry to respond publicly, which I 
know is discouraged, but the email I sent you 10 minutes ago was blocked. 
 Please let me know if it's still available and how to pay you if it is. 
 Thanks.

Dave

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[RBW] Re: rattles n' squeaks

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Twine the pulls, then shellac 'em. 

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[RBW] Re: Sam fenders

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I installed Velo-Orange 52mm Zeppelin fenders on the complete Sam I got in 
2016.  I kept the same brakes and the 38mm Kendra tires that came on the 
bike.  It all works well together, and looks great.  

On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 8:22:29 PM UTC-4, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> I wonder if the brakes that came in the complete are the limiting factor?

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[RBW] Re: New Appaloosa

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

So it's 2 bikes in one!

On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 9:11:06 PM UTC-4, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> Half grown up mountain bike, half cruiser, half road bike, half tourer . . 
> .
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Butch Bubbe

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

When Grant first described the RB project I got excited and followed it, 
and had every intention of buying one.  But I never did, because I was 
always on the edge of the recommended PBH range, and I learned from my 
first Sam that I don't wanna be there---I wanna be firmly inside of it. 
 Looking your TT measurement, this would probably fit me well.  Looks like 
I missed an opportunity. 

Love the tape and twine on the Bubbe tube, by the way.  

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 10:03:22 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> This 58cm Rosco Bubbe Road bike measures 57cm from the center of the seat 
> tube to the center of the head tube, measured along the axis of the top 
> tube.  If you imagine a theoretical level top tube, it would measure more 
> like 58cm.  
>

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Re: [RBW] Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks for linking to the safety tabs.  I was unaware anything like that 
existed.  Any chance you could post a picture of them with your VO fenders?

I like fenders on any bike that might get caught out in the rain, and have 
VO fenders on several bikes.  I've sometimes pondered the negative safety 
aspects, but have kept living on the edge!  At one point I was gonna try 
Riv's plastic fenders, but they're only 45mm wide.  On a Sam with 38mm 
tires I decided I'd rather have VO's 52mm Zeppelins without the release 
than have Riv's 45mm fenders with them.  If I could have the best of both 
worlds . . .

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 7:48:29 AM UTC-4, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Portland Design Works sells an "FMF safety tab".  I added two sets to my 
> metal VO fenders and they work great. The FMF safer tabs incorporate a grub 
> screw for the stay length, so it's easy to micro-adjust them for a perfect 
> fender line.
>

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Re: [RBW] To shim or not to shim?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My only experience with a handlebar shim was quite positive.  On one bike I 
replaced the drop bar with an Albatross bar that's 25.4 mm.  On this bike I 
use a stem riser with a threadless stem and removable faceplate to make 
switching stems easy.  I installed the Albatross bars on a cheap (I think 
it was Kalloy) stem that's 25.4 mm, and couldn't get the stem tightened 
down enough to prevent the bar from rotating in it, even though bar and 
stem were both 25.4 mm.  I was nervous the entire time I was out on the one 
ride I took with this setup.  I swapped the Kalloy stem out for a VO stem 
with a 26.0 mm clamp used a Nitto 25.4 to 26.0 shim, and it's rock 
steady---I can't move it with any reasonable force (in other words, I 
didn't jump up and down on it, but when I press down harder than I ever 
will when riding it doesn't move). 

I think Rene's right that it could be tricky to install a shim in a 
traditional threaded stem with little clearance for the shim, but once 
that's done it should be solid.  
  

On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 11:44:22 AM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> My experiences with the Nitto shims to try to fit 25.4 bars on 26mm stems 
> is the following:
> - Once everything is set, they work very well.
> - Installing them is a total PIA, as I end up scratching the bar since 
> it's so hard to slide them and adjust them in place when the center of the 
> bar is inside the stem. And I use the Nitto stem stretcher tool to open the 
> jaws of the stem to try to slide the three pieces in (2 shims + bar).
>
> Maybe I haven't figured the way to do it correctly, which may require two 
> people + who knows what else, but as I stated, I end up scratching the bars 
> multiple times.
>
> If anyone knows of a procedure to do it without scratching the bars, 
> please share.
>
> René 
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 8:16 AM Sheldon Rothenberg  > wrote:
>
>> I seek  wisdom on the mysteries of shims. I get that shims are a device 
>> that enable one to use different dimensioned handlebars for your bike. Does 
>> using one compromise safety or integrity? Would using one make it harder 
>> for a klutzy non-mechanic to remove handlebars for shipping and reinstall 
>> as in packing a bike for shipment and unpacking for the ride?
>>
>> The context is my preparing for an overseas bike camping trip. The 
>> moustache handlebars (handlbar mustache shaped)that are on my Rivendell 
>> All-Rounder are not very compatible with my Ortlieb handlebar bag. In 
>> looking for alternative handlebars that would give more clearance and  have 
>> slight drops  in-between road and mountain bars, I  found different but 
>> suitable bars from two sources. A Nitto model sold by Rivendell would 
>> require a shim. A one sold and made by Velo-Orange would not. In other 
>> words, should I make shim or non-shim a deciding factor or is it irrelevant 
>> in ease of packing and unpacking?
>>
>>
>> Shelley
>>
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[RBW] Re: Looking for photos of Nitto Mark's Rack on the rear

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The weight limit on the Mark's rack is only 4.4 lbs.  I don't believe it's 
that fragile---in fact I hope it's not since I have one on the front of a 
Sam---but not having any other information I don't know what the weight 
limit really is.  The Carradice Bagman weight limit is 22 lbs.  If you're 
looking for sturdiness I'm not sure that trading a Bagman for a Mark's rack 
would take you in that direction.

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[RBW] Re: Made the switch to upright bars

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I recently did something similar, swapping out the drop bars on a touring 
bike for Albatross bars.  I liked the Albas at first, but liked them less 
the more I rode.  I hadn't expected that.  Maybe part of it---since it was 
a bike suitable for loaded touring---was that I couldn't see myself 
preferring that bike with that set-up for a loaded tour over the same bike 
with drops.  I switched back to the drops, but despite this experience will 
try the Albatross bars again on another bike.  I think they hold great 
promise, just not on that bike.  

By the way, when I'm setting up a new bike or configuration and think I 
might be swapping out stems and/or bars, I use a stem riser (from VO or 
Soma) and threadless stems with removable faceplates when experimenting. 
 It makes it easy to play with stem extensions since you don't have to do 
anything to the bars.  On about half my bikes I have that setup 
permanently; it's not a sleek as, say, a Nitto threaded quill stem, but the 
advantage of easy removal is a big one to me.   

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[RBW] Re: FS: Choco-Norm Bar, Tallux Stem, Paul Thumbies, Shimano Bar Ends, Sugino Triple

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'll take the Sugino triple if it's still available.  Sorry to reply 
publicly, which I know is discouraged, but the email I just sent to you got 
kicked back to me as undeliverable.  

Dave

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 8:23:21 AM UTC-4, Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> Forgot to mention the crankset length.  170
>
> How about $75 shipped
>

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[RBW] Re: New Cheviot Day

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Adam, do you know the true width of the Big Bens on your set-up, and how 
comfortably do they fit?  Barely, or do you have any room to spare? 
 Thanks. 


>

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[RBW] Re: Bike computer

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I use a Cateye Strada Wireless on bikes that I won't use a headlight on, 
and a Cateye Velo 7 on bikes that I might.  The Velo 7 is wired so won't 
get its nose knocked out of joint by the headlight.  They're cheap, simple, 
and reliable, with battery life measured by the year, not hour.  

Having said that, had I known I'd end up with so many bikes I might have 
opted for a single GPS unit that would track the same things the Cateyes do 
and that I could swap from bike to bike, but by the time I thought of that 
it was too late.  

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[RBW] Re: Platform Pedal Recommendation for Sam

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My feet are size 13, so I feel your pain.  VO Sabot pedals are the best 
platform pedals I've ever used, but they retail for $90.  MKS Sylvan pedals 
are well-made, almost as wide as the Sabots although narrower 
front-to-back, accommodate clips and straps if you ever want to use them, 
and retail for less than $40.  I find them to be quite comfortable even 
over longer rides.   

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[RBW] Re: Giving up on my Cambium C17

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have a Cambium on my commuter but don't find it as comfortable as a 
Brooks B-17 or a Berthoud Aspin or Mente.  The Cambium feels harder--not 
comfortably so--but I like the weatherproofness of it so give up a little 
comfort for that quality since the distance isn't daunting.  

Are you sure the saddle width is the issue?


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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Choco-Norm Bar, Tallux Stem, Paul Thumbies, Shimano Bar Ends, Sugino Triple

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Johnny,

Can you tell me if and when you shipped the Sugino triple?  I don't need it 
urgently, but it hasn't arrived yet and I want to be sure it's not lost in the 
system.  Thanks.

Dave

On Sat, 6/3/17, Johnny Alien  wrote:

 Subject: [RBW] Re: FS: Choco-Norm Bar, Tallux Stem, Paul Thumbies, Shimano Bar 
Ends, Sugino Triple
 To: "RBW Owners Bunch" 
 Date: Saturday, June 3, 2017, 3:05 PM
 
 Everything is sold.
  Thanks, Dave!
 
 
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Choco-Norm Bar, Tallux Stem, Paul Thumbies, Shimano Bar Ends, Sugino Triple

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm sorry, all, I thought I was replying to an email from Johnny, not 
posting this to the board.  I apologize.  


>

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[RBW] Re: Breaking in a leather Brooks

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I echo what others have said:  Sparingly use Proofhide (or something 
similar) and then just ride it.  I do recommend covering it in the rain; 
wet leather stretches much more easily than dry leather, and riding a 
soaked saddle will misshape it.  I keep a $3 shower cap in my repair kit, 
and it works well.  

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[RBW] Anyone used a large Saddleback for touring?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

A while back I bought a large Saddlesack thinking it'd be good for shorter 
tours.  I'm taking a 7-day credit card tour soon and I'm having second 
thoughts about using it.  It's bigger than I thought it'd be, large enough 
that it's unwieldy sitting on top of the rack.  I'm considering using a 
couple of Carradice Kendall panniers instead, which (combined) have the 
same volume as the Saddlesack but sit lower, which may make the handling a 
little better.  I'll be taking a Sam Hillborne with a Nitto Big Rear rack, 
and won't have more than 20 lbs in the rear bag(s); in fact, it may be only 
10-15 lbs.  I'll have an Acorn Boxy Rando bag on a Mark's Rack on the front 
regardless of what I do in the rear.  

Does anyone have experience with the large Saddlesack for such use?  I can 
think of pros and cons for each option, but would like opinions from those 
who really know.  Thanks.

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Anyone used a large Saddleback for touring?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, all, for the responses.  

Deacon, I'm planning to follow your suggestion Saturday.  I installed the 
Saddlesack earlier today and will load it up with some canned goods 
tomorrow and take it for a 50 (or so)-mile ride.  Working with it empty is 
what prompted my second thoughts about it, 'cause it's BIG.  I'll be mostly 
on paved roads, maybe some unpaved but hard-packed bike paths, but nothing 
tricky.   

Matt, I'm 97.3% sure I'll be able to fit everything into this and the Acorn 
bag in front.  If I can't then I was planning to do exactly what you 
suggested, the Carradice panniers and a Nelson Longflap in back and an 
Acorn bag in front.  But after seeing how big the Saddlesack is, if I can't 
fit everything into that and the front bag, then I'm carrying too much and 
need to leave some things home.  

Weth, we're starting about 45 miles north of Ludington, MI, and riding back 
home to just north of Indianapolis.  Most of it will be along US bike route 
35, except for about a day in NW Indiana.  I didn't know that route existed 
until about a year ago when I read about it in Adventure Cycling Magazine, 
and when I did a little research on it I discovered that it includes a rail 
trail that's only about 3 miles from my house.  It should be about 400 
miles in 7 days, and we'll stay in some good towns along the western coast 
in Michigan.  

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[RBW] Re: Anyone used a large Saddleback for touring?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, all, for the tips and feedback.  Yesterday I installed the large 
Saddlesack, loaded it with 16 lbs of bottled water, and took it out for 53 
miles.  I had a small Trunksack in front instead of the Acorn Boxy Rando 
I'll take on the trip, but I figured that wouldn't affect my major decision 
which was Saddlesack or panniers in the back.  Most of the trip there was a 
moderate crosswind, which was a worse-case scenario for the top-heavy 
effect I was testing.  

The bike handled very well, and I could tell right away that it would be 
fine.  I'll take the Saddleback on the trip.  I noticed the top-heaviness 
only under 2 circumstances:

1.  When I was tilting the bike toward me to mount or dismount it.  The 
first time I did it I was caught off guard and almost dropped the bike, but 
after that I expected it and it wasn't a problem.  

2.  When I stood on the pedals and coasted to give my butt a 10-second 
break, the bike wanted to sway more than it normally does.  My raised body 
contributed to the overall top-heaviness, but I could feel it more than I 
do when I do that on an unloaded bike.  It wasn't a problem, just something 
I noticed.  

Overall I was quite happy with this configuration.   

Marc, thanks for the link.  I know what items I'm gonna take and know I can 
fight the urge to take more, although I'll probably throw in an extra shirt 
and pair of shorts if there's lots of extra room.  

Jeff, that's an interesting progression of luggage options, which based on 
your description comes from lots of experimentation.  Did you rank front 
panniers ahead of rear panniers because it handles better or because of 
other considerations, such as relieving some stress from the rear wheel?

Weth, I'll post some pics when I get back, as well as general impressions.  

Palmer, I don't know the route yet.  Most or all of it in Michigan will be 
along USBR35, but I'll also have a Garmin Edge Touring and may sometimes 
follow that "off course" if it takes me that way.  If M22 is part of USBR35 
then I'm sure I'll be on it.  I've read that the bike route is well-marked, 
and I'm hoping that's true. It'll be my first experience with a USBR.  I've 
also read that US bike routes aren't always the best available route 
because they had to get local communities to agree to be part of it, and 
sometimes the local communities---for one reason or another---didn't want 
that to be on it.  The Garmin won't pay any attention to that objection, if 
it's working properly (which it did yesterday, but it hasn't always in the 
past).  We're starting on July 1 from Bear Lake and will be spending nights 
in Ludington, Muskegon, Saugatuck, and Bridgman, MI, and then in Plymouth 
and Peru, IN.  The Michigan stops look like good places with plenty to do; 
the Indiana stops not so much but they seemed like the best options 
available.  

 

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 6:19:38 AM UTC-4, Palmer wrote:
>
> Hello Dave,
> Are you Riding M22? I live along BR35 near Muskegon and you will have a 
> wonderful ride. My favorite is from Manistee to Sleeping Bear and 
> northward. When are you going? I will be there July 5-7, not sure where I 
> will start. Free parking at the Manistee Airport is very compelling but I 
> want to explore father north too. As stated already try different things, 
> you will adjust to he handling quickly as long as not carry too much 
> weight. M22 has some good hills, last trip hit 42 mph with 25 lbs on the 
> bike. High speed stability is a good thing. This was on a Schwinn Passage 
> with front panniers, a rack and basket, and small saddlebag. 
> Have fun,
> Tom Palmer
> Twin Lake, MI

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[RBW] Re: Anyone used a large Saddleback for touring?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Palmer,

Thanks much for your tips and advice and contact info.  I appreciate it. 
 We're staying at the Holiday Inn Harbor in Muskegon, which looks to be in 
the heart of things but it's hard to tell on a map.  Do you know of any 
good non-corporate restaurants near that, say, family-owned places with 
great wholesome food and reasonable prices?  If City Hub Cyclery is an easy 
walk from the Holiday Inn then we'll pay that a visit.  Thanks again for 
your help with my planning.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Saddle height vs PBH

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My PBH is 88 cm and I put my saddle heights at 78 or 77 cm.  That works 
well with thicker-soled shoes like Keen sandals, but if I take a ride with 
thin-soled shoes like Vibram Five Fingers, that saddle height is too tall. 
 It's easier to change my shoes than it is to lower (and then raise) the 
saddle, so I do that instead.  But it was a learning experience to try a 
few rides with the Five Fingers.  

So, a 10-cm difference typically works well for me with most shoes, but not 
all shoes.  

BTW, when I started paying attention to Grant's recommendations on this 
subject, it was 10 cm, not 10 or 11.  That's why I put the saddle height 
and 78 and just went with it.  I don't know when the "or 11" crept in.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Back to the subject

For touring I use Hold-Fast straps with VO Sabot pedals, which for purposes 
of this discussion are similar to the Thin Gripsters. The pedals are well 
made and have a large 100mm by 100mm platform, which when coupled with the 
large-size Hold-Fast straps accommodate my size 13 shoes which traditional 
clips and straps don't. My favorite shoes with this are Keen Commuter 
sandals but without clips installed.  With this combination my feet are 
well-supported on the wide platform and are nicely snugged in so that I 
feel connected but can disengage easily. The straps are robust enough that 
I can pull up on hills. The only downside is the same one toe clips have; 
when disengaged the strap is always under the pedal, and it take a little 
practice to be able to flip them up easily and get your foot in.  

By the way, the company that sells the Hold-Fast straps also sells nice 
canvas bags for a reasonable price.  Not saddlebag-bags, but 7" x 4.5" and 
another size a little larger.  I use the smaller size for storing travel 
chargers so I can just grab the bag when I'm leaving for a trip.  

Dave  

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 3:57:28 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thems These And Those:
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/thin-gripster-pedals-dark-grey-vp-001
>
> (Grim Hipsters instead of Thin Gripsters is from the Blug, so it's 
> official.)
>
> https://holdfastordie.com/
>
> 1. Have any of youse used these and those?
>
> 2. How well do the Hold Fasts work?
>
> 3. How well do the Hold Fasts work compared to clips and straps?
>
> 4. How would Thin Gripsters plus Hold Fasts work in (a) securing your feet 
> to a pedal continually moving because it is attached to a fixed drivetrain; 
> (b) letting you pull back or at least up, occasionally under high load, as 
> on a steep hill at very slow speeds; and then, comparing (a) and (b) to MKS 
> GR-9 pedals, Christophe clips, nice straps, strap cushions or pads or 
> whatever, and Toe Clip Buttons? That is, if you've gotten lost in my 
> cluster of clauses: (i) which would let you do a and b better, (ii) which 
> would allow easier entry and exit (I'm a dab hand at toe clip entry and 
> exit with the GR-9s); and (iii) which would be more comfortable overall?
>
> Patrick "clustering clauses clumsily coalesce creating conceptual cloaca" 
> Moore
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *Interested in trading resume, LinkedIn, and other writing work for 
> professional (professional) help with marketing and growing my resumes, 
> etc. business. Respondents should have considerable experience in helping 
> small, online businesses grow. Please contact me at 
> patric...@resumespecialties.com . Thanks.*
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My only experience with the Hold-Fast straps is with VO Sabot pedals.  In 
that case retraction hasn't been a problem because the pins on the pedal 
aren't that tall and are rounded.  I tightened the straps to the point that 
they're snug, but not so tight they were cutting off blood flow to my toes, 
and I made sure I could remove my feet quickly without issue.  The 
tightness level is a fine line, but I found it pretty quickly.  

On a recent tour I considered going with the Sabots and no straps, and 
ended up taking the pedals with straps thinking that I could remove the 
straps during the trip if I wanted to.  On the 2nd afternoon it rained 
fairly hard for a couple of hours and I flipped the pedals to test the 
Sabots without retention, and my foot slipped more than I thought they 
would.  I was glad I had the straps.  With longer spikier pins I think 
retracting from the Hold-Fasts would be a problem, and in that case you may 
not need retention even when it rains.   

On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 6:42:51 PM UTC-4, drew wrote:
>
> I've never tried this, but wouldn't pins be somewhat redundant on a pedal 
> with straps? Also, wouldn't the pins make foot entrance/exit difficult? I 
> was under the assumption that grippy pedals with pins were made for bmx or 
> mtb applications where you wouldn't want straps. 
>
> I have thin gripsters on 2 bikes, and my foot does zero sliding around. I 
> hear you on the pulling up part, but I haven't thought about that since 
> installing them on the bike. 
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Velo Orange Rondonneur 61cm

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have one of these---2, actually---set up similarly to yours, so I'm not 
in the market but wanted to tell anyone considering it that it's a great 
model.  The ride is smooth and really comfortable, just all-around 
terrific.  In my opinion the only drawback is that max tire width with 
fenders is 28mm (32mm without, if I remember correctly), but the rest of 
the bike's qualities make up for it.  

Donald, your price seems quite fair given the accoutrements.  

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Nitto 32R rear rack

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

There's one on eBay now that looks medium to me:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nitto-Campee-Rear-Bike-Rack-/202004571051?

This is the second auction he's posted for it; the first closed with a $135 
opener and no bids, so he relisted it at $175.  Go figure.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I wasn't much interested in the Roadini until I saw the presale 
announcement last week, with the pics and the description, and my interest 
grew.  I was really close to sending my payment---in fact, was merely 
debating which color to get---but since then my interest has waned because 
I don't know that I can get past the TIG welds.  I understand the reasoning 
behind them, and I acknowledge that it makes no difference to the ride 
quality, the longevity, or anything thing else that matters objectively, 
but still  I vowed a few years ago that I wouldn't buy a bike that had 
a threadless headset (for rational reasons) or that was TIG-welded (for 
emotional reasons), and while the Roadini caused me to reconsider 
that---the model ticks ALL of my other boxes---I fear that the welds will 
always truncate my love.  

I wish the model was in the Sam/Joe/Cheviot class; made in Taiwan with 
lugs, so it's much less expensive than the Waterford-made models but more 
than the TIG-welded models.  I'd be the first in line for that one.  

Dave

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini!

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Patrick.  I've owned 4 bikes with threadless headsets and have had bad 
experiences with each one because of it.  For 2 of them---a Surly LHT and a 
Surly Cross Check, both bought new---I told the dealer I wanted the 
handlebars to be even with the top of a saddle set at 77cm.  He 
accomplished that by installing a 17 degree stem pointing skyward and then 
cutting the steerer with no room to go up.  Later when I wanted to raise my 
bars I couldn't, or at least not enough to matter.  I sold the LHT for that 
reason, and still use the CC for commuting but would like to replace it so 
I can get the bars higher.  I was considering a Roadini for that until I 
discovered that max tire width is 28mm with fenders, which isn't wide 
enough for me on Indianapolis streets.  The 3rd bike is a Waterford 1200 
that would be perfect except I can't get the bar higher than an inch below 
the saddle, and I'm selling it for that reason.  And lastly, I had a rando 
bike custom-built about 6-7 years ago, by a builder out of state.  I 
specifically told him to talk to me BEFORE he cut the steering tube, but he 
ignored that instruction.  He later said he had cut it but left plenty of 
room to raise the bars, but when I got the bike there was no buffer, and he 
refused to even talk to me about making it right.  I eventually paid others 
to replace the steerer and repaint the fork.  To be fair to threadless 
headsets 3 of these 4 cases were faults of the dealer's or builder's 
stupidity or disobeyance, but the problems wouldn't have occurred with 
threaded stems and show the limitations of threadless.  So I now stick to 
threaded, and it's nonnegotiable.  

Having said that, on about half my bikes I use a threadless stem with a 
riser, so I have the adjustability of threaded but can swap stems without 
stripping the handlebar.  It's not as sleek-looking as a Nitto stem, but 
the tradeoff is well worth it if there's any chance at all that I'll want 
to change the stem extension.  

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 3:54:15 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Dave: why don't you like threadless headsets? 
>
 

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[RBW] Re: How do you guys do it, buying a bike sight unseen

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Of the 14 bikes I currently own, I was able to ride only 2 before buying 
them.  One is a Surly Cross Check that I bought new from a LBS in about 
2007, and while it's useful as my commuter-bike, it's my least favorite. 
 The other is a 60cm Hillborne, which I test rode at an Ohio Rivendell 
dealer in 2012 and liked and bought, but over the course of that first 
summer I decided it was a bit too big and I never could love it.  I still 
have it, and I *like* it, but I don't *love* it---but I love my 58cm Sam 
that I bought on presale 2 years ago without riding.  I also have a Homer 
Hilsen, 2 Velo-Orange bikes, and a Waterford that I love, none of which I 
could ride before buying, and I have a custom-built 650b rando that's the 
most expensive bike I own and is the one about which I'm most ambivalent. 
 Obviously I couldn't ride that one beforehand, but still, it was 
custom-built for me so it should be perfect, right?  It's not.  

Over time I've learned about myself, my riding style and bike 
preferences---both of which have "evolved" over the years---and can figure 
out now whether a bike will fit and whether I'll like it.  For example, I 
learned from the first Sam that I don't want to buy a Riv for which I'm on 
the edge of the recommended PBH range; I want to be in the middle of the 
range.  It's why I later bought the 58cm Sam, and why I won't buy an 
Appaloosa with the current sizing.  

Some bikes have been better for me than others, but none have been bad and 
most have been very good to great.  The ones I've sold I sold not because 
the bikes changed, but because my riding style moved away from the bike to 
the point that I no longer rode it.  In my case that means I've gone from 
racier bikes to less-racy bikes (country bikes, anyone?), and the bikes 
I've sold were ones with more aggressive geometry and lower-than-the-saddle 
bars.

The advice above to let Riv guide you is good; they know what they're 
doing.  On my 58cm Sam I thought I'd need to lengthen the stem and replace 
the bars with more narrow bars, but when I got it and rode it, the fit was 
perfect just as it was.  The folks at Riv had never met me, but they knew 
more about my fit than I did!  

You'll never know if buying sight-unseen can work for you unless you take 
the plunge, and I sense that if you don't then you'll always wonder what 
you've missed.  As one of Riv's less expensive bikes but with Riv-bike 
design features, build quality, ride quality, and great customer-service 
behind it, the Roadini would be a great one to take the plunge on if you're 
ever gonna do it.  

Dave 

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[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have both, and I agree with the Deacon.  From the standpoint of pure joy 
when riding I like the Homer more; it feels lighter and more responsive 
when riding, although it's also smooth and stable.  After my first ride on 
it I told my wife that I ever had to reduce my N to 1, the Homer is a 
strong candidate to be that one.  

Having said that, the Sam is a bit heavier-duty, which I think would suit 
you better for the type of riding you describe.  The Sam's not as zippy as 
the Homer, but it's hardly a slug.  It feels more tour-ish, but it's still 
responsive and is a smooth, comfortable ride.  As the Deacon said, both 
would fit the bill, but in my opinion the Sam would fit it a little better. 
 I've set up my Sam as a light tourer and carry loads on it, and use the 
Homer for unloaded recreational rides.  

Others have mentioned the differences in availability and cost, which you 
can evaluate easily on your own.  One other consideration I'll mention is 
that the Homer is available is more sizes, while the Sam has more limited 
selection.  I've discovered that I don't like to be on the edge of 
Rivendell's recommended range of PBH for a model; I want to be toward the 
middle.  If you're on the edge of Sam's range then I recommend a test ride 
if possible to be sure it won't feel too big or small in the available 
sizes.   

Dave 

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[RBW] Re: Roadeo for sale on SFbay craigslist

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

He'll sell it today for $450, but $550 is the case price.  Hm.

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[RBW] Re: Roadeo for sale on SFbay craigslist

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

He'll sell it today for $450, but $550 is the cash price.  Hm.

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[RBW] Re: Hitch rack recommendations?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I use a Transit rack that I got for $200 from Performance a few years ago. 
 It looks exactly like the 2-bike version of the Hollywood rack that Weth 
linked to above, and I love it except for one thing:  I have to secure it 
with a strap leading from the pole to the front edge of the trunk, 
tightened down to prevent bouncing.  The strap comes with the rack, but 
it's a minor hassle to install and prevents access to the trunk while it's 
installed.  The link to the Hollywood says it "features patented 'no 
wobble-no tools' hitch tightening system" which would make this perfect for 
my bikes, all of which have fenders.  I'm going to look more into the 
Hollywood when I get a chance.  

Dave
Indianapolis, IN

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[RBW] Re: How much drop from the bar can I get out of a Berthoud decaleur?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Ron.  I've been curious about an aspect of decaleur use and this is 
perfect time to ask.  

I use Acorn front bags with the stabilizer straps that came with it, looped 
around my drop handlebars below the brake hoods.  When the lid is closed, 
the top is laying over the bag's opening and the rearward flap slips down 
behind the bag and I fasten the elastic band to the hook on the bag.  In 
your picture and in many other pictures I've seen of decaleurs installed, 
the 2 bars going from the stem to the bag occupy the same space as the lid 
flap does when it's closed.  

How do you handle this---do you always leave your lid unfastened and never 
loop it in?   

Dave

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 6:15:31 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I've posted these before
>
>  
>
> Set up for a tall Acorn rando on a 25" Raleigh frame, I just measured the 
> drop - right at 80mm, using the long Berthoud decaleur, with it tilted 
> forward enough to grab the bag properly.  
>
> I'm looking to buy another of these to also use the bag on my upright bike 
> with Map bars in almost identical height position.  
>
>
> On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 11:43:05 PM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> *But the main question is how much drop reach below the bars could I get? 
>> Got pics of yours?*
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: How much drop from the bar can I get out of a Berthoud decaleur?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

That's the most informative answer I could have hoped for, Ron.  Thanks.  

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:49:09 PM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Dave, I always loop it.  - even had a photo with it closed
>
> <http://imgur.com/s6LeJ4c.jpg>
> it wrinkles there a bit but everything works fine.  
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 12:16:38 PM UTC-5, Dave Small wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ron.  I've been curious about an aspect of decaleur use and this is 
>> perfect time to ask.  
>>
>> I use Acorn front bags with the stabilizer straps that came with it, 
>> looped around my drop handlebars below the brake hoods.  When the lid is 
>> closed, the top is laying over the bag's opening and the rearward flap 
>> slips down behind the bag and I fasten the elastic band to the hook on the 
>> bag.  In your picture and in many other pictures I've seen of decaleurs 
>> installed, the 2 bars going from the stem to the bag occupy the same space 
>> as the lid flap does when it's closed.  
>>
>> How do you handle this---do you always leave your lid unfastened and 
>> never loop it in?   
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS Choco bars/Nitto stem

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

No offense, Carla, but if you're putting something out there for sale then 
you need to set a price.  If you don't want to do that then I suggest eBay. 
 

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Custom bike

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

For those of us without an Instagram account, it'd be nice if you could 
post pictures of the bike you're describing.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: Volume of LARGE Saddlsack?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Going by memory here, but I recall the description saying the volume was in 
the low-30 liters, like 30 to 32 liters.  
 
Dave

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Re: [RBW] Re: Volume of LARGE Saddlsack?

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Patrick,

I checked my memory in a roundabout way and am 97.8 percent sure I'm 
correct.  I have a pair of Carradice Kendal panniers and was considering 
using those last spring on a tour, and remember thinking that the total 
volume of the Kendals at 32 liters was about the same as that of my large 
Saddlesack, so capacity-wise it didn't matter.   

Dave

>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB 56cm Bombadil

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Geez, jamison---such irrational overlap of bikes and bike types, just 
'cause you want it?  You remind me of me.  

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:46:04 PM UTC-5, jamison brosseau wrote:
>
> I agree with Bill and Joe, that a 56 Atlantis will do everything I am 
> looking for, except be a 56cm Bombadil.  I am planning on getting either a 
> 59 or a 56 Atlantis, and am leaning towards the 59 (love the curvy tube)  I 
> still really want a 56 bombadil, and am willing to wait.  FWIW I have a 60 
> Bombadil, 58 Hunqapillar, 59 Clem L, and an older 61 Atlantis, so it’s not 
> like I’m lacking mountainy bikes to ride.   
> Bottom line:  I want a 56 Bombadil and a MIT Atlantis. (And a 60cm Cheviot)

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