[RBW] Re: Paul Touring cantilever performance versus Paul Neo Retro

[J G]

I run Paul Canti brakes on a number of bikes.

The touring brake model should be more powerful than the Neo-Retro when you 
account for both the angle of the arms and the yoke angle.  As such, the 
greater mechanical advantage of the Neo-Retro arm is offset by the lower 
mechanical advantage of the yoke angle of these setups IIRC.

As such, I use Paul touring brakes F/R for rim brake 29ers and generally 
run the Neo-Retro F and Touring rear for all other bikes.  Both brakes 
perform well when setup properly with good compressionless housing.   

No wrong answers and I started with the touring ones in back many years ago 
for the same reason as you.

-Justus
Mpls, MN

On Tuesday, July 23, 2024 at 5:07:08 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I started out with Neo Retros front and rear, found that the rears 
> intefered with panniers, and switched to Touring in the rear. 
>
> I can't really say that the front is more powerful than the rear; both 
> have very stiff housing hangers -- rear is brazed on, front is Rene Herse.
>
> Others who have used both: can you say whether it's worth keeping the Neo 
> Retros in front?
>
> Tho' I do hear that this f/r combo is not uncommon.
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Low q, low range 2x cranks

[J G]

Adam,

Re:  *"...though I'm not sure if I understand what BB will get a specific 
chainline"*

That will be crank and implementation specific.  

Since this is Riv-centric we can use the concept of a square taper triple 
mountain crankset as an example.  It will require a specific BB length to 
achieve the proper chainline for the standard implementation, which in this 
case is 47.5mm for 135mm rear spacing.

I you want to:
 - Run as a double and rm granny, then reduce spindle by 6mm (mountain 
double/triple and preferred single speed 47.5mm chainline)
 - Run as a triple on a bike with 130mm rear spacing, then reduce spindle 
by 5mm (road triple 45mm chainline)
 - Run as a double and rm granny plus run on a 130mm rear road spaced bike, 
then reduce spindle by 11mm (and yes, for some cranks, you cannot find 
spindles that small)
 - Run as a double with bash, then increase spindle by 6mm

-Justus
Mpls, MN

On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-6 Nick Payne wrote:

> Sugino OX series. Very nicely made and attractive cranks that use 110BCD 
> for the outer ring and 74 BCD for the inner, Q factor 145mm. For some 
> reason they aren't sold with a smaller chainring combination than 44/30, 
> but you can use them with smaller chainrings than that. Here's one I 
> installed on one of my wife's bikes with 39/26 chainrings. The downside of 
> the cranks is that they're rather expensive - a cheaper alternative of the 
> same design with 110BCD for the outer chainring and 74BCD for the inner is 
> the Dixna La. It's about one third the price, and also slightly narrower Q, 
> though to my eye it's also less attractive: 
> https://alexscycle.com/products/dixna-la-crank-arm-set-130mm-to-170mm.
>
> Here's the Sugino OX801 - on Sugino's website it has now been superseded 
> by the OX901, which looks pretty identical.
> [image: IMG_20180102_144900.jpg]
>
> Nick Payne
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Low q, low range 2x cranks

[J G]

Bill,

As a fellow Q nerd, this is a really good mention:

*A lot of people with 135mm OLD Rivendell Road bikes will set up their 
double with 43.5mm chain line anyway, thinking of it more as a 1x plus 
granny setup.  Swing the whole cassette in the big ring and only use the 
larger 4 cogs in the small ring.  Doing that would probably bring <150mm 
Q-factor into play for your Hillborne.  *

If I do not set a perfect chainline on a 2x bike, it is always skewed to 
the inside for reduced Q and shifting habits as described above.  Although, 
I generally run a 108mm vs. 113mm for WI VBC as an example so I generally 
only go from 47.5mm to 45mm chainline and 150mm to 145mm Q.

-Justus
Mpls, MN

On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:27:25 PM UTC-6 J G wrote:

> This one is a little harder or more restrictive as you cannot use a 
> middle/outer combo for a 94bcd double/triple with the 26t and requires the 
> use of the granny ring for most triples, which works against low-Q:
>
> *What are options for double cranksets that are around 40/26 or so?*
>
> White Industries VBC road cranks is what I tend to use for doubles in the 
> range of 24/38 up to 28/42 and the Q is not quite in the 140s but a flat 
> 150mm on a 113mm BB.
>
> -Justus
> Mpls, MN
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:21:12 PM UTC-6 J G wrote:
>
>> Adam,
>>
>> Regarding:
>>
>> *does swapping the large ring for a bash guard allow for a lower Q? I 
>> assumed that would stay the same?*
>>
>> No, in fact this would create a higher Q if implemented properly. 
>>  Chainline is now between middle and small rings with a bash and need 
>> longer BB spindle to achieve proper chainline, resulting in higher Q.
>>
>> The best use of triples for low-Q doubles are ones where the granny ring 
>> has spacers that can be removed.  Cranks like the old Ritchey Logic and 
>> Suntour XC Pro (among others) can be run with middle/large rings only and a 
>> shorter BB spindle for proper chainline between middle and large in this 
>> implementation and lower-Q.
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:09:37 PM UTC-6 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> Uhh... because lower Q works better for some people? That's like asking 
>>> why someone wants a longer/shorter stem...
>>>
>>> Adam, with the VO cranks (if we're thinking of the same ones) if you can 
>>> get a set of arms without rings, TA rings will fit, which are available in 
>>> any tooth count down to 26 IIRC. 40/26 is definitely possible with the TA 
>>> 50.4bcd rings. You could also watch eBay etc for used TA cyclotouriste/pro 
>>> 5 vis cranks, which is what the VO and SunXCD cranks are copies of.
>>>
>>> Josiah Anderson 
>>> Missoula MT 
>>>
>>>
>>> Le mer. 10 janv. 2024 à 9:47 AM, Bill Schairer  a 
>>> écrit :
>>>
>>>> Since you stated you are a bit new to all of this, I am curious as to 
>>>> exactly why you are so focused on a lower Q?
>>>>
>>>> Bill S
>>>> San Diego
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 9:26:06 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Great ideas already. I have thought about the VO cranks, but want 
>>>>> slightly lower gearing if I'm going to the trouble of swapping.
>>>>>
>>>>> For Ron, or anyone else, does swapping the large ring for a bash guard 
>>>>> allow for a lower Q? I assumed that would stay the same?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to look at the Alex cycle option, your pic is exactly what I 
>>>>> want to do. Is there a clever way to piece something like that together 
>>>>> from older stuff on eBay? Guessing it may take knowledge I don't have 
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 11:15:31 AM UTC-6 Ron Mc wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> adding a ps - another use of your triple crank, there are some 
>>>>>> virtually weightless bash guards out there if you want to make it a 
>>>>>> compact 
>>>>>> double.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: Rw6vTY9.jpg]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:44:54 AM UTC-6 Ron Mc wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Adam, 
>>>>>>> take a look at VO Rando crank.  
>>>>>>> If you can find them, Sun XCD makes their 50.8 BCD and chainrings, 
>>>>>>> which I'm running o

Re: [RBW] Re: Low q, low range 2x cranks

[J G]

This one is a little harder or more restrictive as you cannot use a 
middle/outer combo for a 94bcd double/triple with the 26t and requires the 
use of the granny ring for most triples, which works against low-Q:

*What are options for double cranksets that are around 40/26 or so?*

White Industries VBC road cranks is what I tend to use for doubles in the 
range of 24/38 up to 28/42 and the Q is not quite in the 140s but a flat 
150mm on a 113mm BB.

-Justus
Mpls, MN

On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:21:12 PM UTC-6 J G wrote:

> Adam,
>
> Regarding:
>
> *does swapping the large ring for a bash guard allow for a lower Q? I 
> assumed that would stay the same?*
>
> No, in fact this would create a higher Q if implemented properly. 
>  Chainline is now between middle and small rings with a bash and need 
> longer BB spindle to achieve proper chainline, resulting in higher Q.
>
> The best use of triples for low-Q doubles are ones where the granny ring 
> has spacers that can be removed.  Cranks like the old Ritchey Logic and 
> Suntour XC Pro (among others) can be run with middle/large rings only and a 
> shorter BB spindle for proper chainline between middle and large in this 
> implementation and lower-Q.
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:09:37 PM UTC-6 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>
>> Uhh... because lower Q works better for some people? That's like asking 
>> why someone wants a longer/shorter stem...
>>
>> Adam, with the VO cranks (if we're thinking of the same ones) if you can 
>> get a set of arms without rings, TA rings will fit, which are available in 
>> any tooth count down to 26 IIRC. 40/26 is definitely possible with the TA 
>> 50.4bcd rings. You could also watch eBay etc for used TA cyclotouriste/pro 
>> 5 vis cranks, which is what the VO and SunXCD cranks are copies of.
>>
>> Josiah Anderson 
>> Missoula MT 
>>
>>
>> Le mer. 10 janv. 2024 à 9:47 AM, Bill Schairer  a 
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Since you stated you are a bit new to all of this, I am curious as to 
>>> exactly why you are so focused on a lower Q?
>>>
>>> Bill S
>>> San Diego
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 9:26:06 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Great ideas already. I have thought about the VO cranks, but want 
>>>> slightly lower gearing if I'm going to the trouble of swapping.
>>>>
>>>> For Ron, or anyone else, does swapping the large ring for a bash guard 
>>>> allow for a lower Q? I assumed that would stay the same?
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to look at the Alex cycle option, your pic is exactly what I 
>>>> want to do. Is there a clever way to piece something like that together 
>>>> from older stuff on eBay? Guessing it may take knowledge I don't have 
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 11:15:31 AM UTC-6 Ron Mc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> adding a ps - another use of your triple crank, there are some 
>>>>> virtually weightless bash guards out there if you want to make it a 
>>>>> compact 
>>>>> double.  
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: Rw6vTY9.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:44:54 AM UTC-6 Ron Mc wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Adam, 
>>>>>> take a look at VO Rando crank.  
>>>>>> If you can find them, Sun XCD makes their 50.8 BCD and chainrings, 
>>>>>> which I'm running on 2 bikes.  .  
>>>>>> I was on SJS Cycles last night looking at rings, and noticed they 
>>>>>> still have some T/A-5 chainrings.  
>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-6 Adam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adjacent to the triples thread, I'm thinking about moving away from 
>>>>>>> a triple to a double in order to get a lower Q.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are options for double cranksets that are around 40/26 or so? I 
>>>>>>> think that would be doable with the Rene Herse cranks, but too much $$$ 
>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>> me. Are there any cheaper options that will do that and give me a q in 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> 140s?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Second, drivetrain stuff is a little new to me. What determines how 
>>>>>>> small a q fac

Re: [RBW] Re: Low q, low range 2x cranks

[J G]

Adam,

Regarding:

*does swapping the large ring for a bash guard allow for a lower Q? I 
assumed that would stay the same?*

No, in fact this would create a higher Q if implemented properly. 
 Chainline is now between middle and small rings with a bash and need 
longer BB spindle to achieve proper chainline, resulting in higher Q.

The best use of triples for low-Q doubles are ones where the granny ring 
has spacers that can be removed.  Cranks like the old Ritchey Logic and 
Suntour XC Pro (among others) can be run with middle/large rings only and a 
shorter BB spindle for proper chainline between middle and large in this 
implementation and lower-Q.

On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:09:37 PM UTC-6 Josiah Anderson wrote:

> Uhh... because lower Q works better for some people? That's like asking 
> why someone wants a longer/shorter stem...
>
> Adam, with the VO cranks (if we're thinking of the same ones) if you can 
> get a set of arms without rings, TA rings will fit, which are available in 
> any tooth count down to 26 IIRC. 40/26 is definitely possible with the TA 
> 50.4bcd rings. You could also watch eBay etc for used TA cyclotouriste/pro 
> 5 vis cranks, which is what the VO and SunXCD cranks are copies of.
>
> Josiah Anderson 
> Missoula MT 
>
>
> Le mer. 10 janv. 2024 à 9:47 AM, Bill Schairer  a 
> écrit :
>
>> Since you stated you are a bit new to all of this, I am curious as to 
>> exactly why you are so focused on a lower Q?
>>
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 9:26:06 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Great ideas already. I have thought about the VO cranks, but want 
>>> slightly lower gearing if I'm going to the trouble of swapping.
>>>
>>> For Ron, or anyone else, does swapping the large ring for a bash guard 
>>> allow for a lower Q? I assumed that would stay the same?
>>>
>>> I'm going to look at the Alex cycle option, your pic is exactly what I 
>>> want to do. Is there a clever way to piece something like that together 
>>> from older stuff on eBay? Guessing it may take knowledge I don't have 
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 11:15:31 AM UTC-6 Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
 adding a ps - another use of your triple crank, there are some 
 virtually weightless bash guards out there if you want to make it a 
 compact 
 double.  

 [image: Rw6vTY9.jpg]

 On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:44:54 AM UTC-6 Ron Mc wrote:

> Hi Adam, 
> take a look at VO Rando crank.  
> If you can find them, Sun XCD makes their 50.8 BCD and chainrings, 
> which I'm running on 2 bikes.  .  
> I was on SJS Cycles last night looking at rings, and noticed they 
> still have some T/A-5 chainrings.  
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-6 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Adjacent to the triples thread, I'm thinking about moving away from a 
>> triple to a double in order to get a lower Q.
>>
>> What are options for double cranksets that are around 40/26 or so? I 
>> think that would be doable with the Rene Herse cranks, but too much $$$ 
>> for 
>> me. Are there any cheaper options that will do that and give me a q in 
>> the 
>> 140s?
>>
>> Second, drivetrain stuff is a little new to me. What determines how 
>> small a q factor a specific bike can have? I'm assuming chainstays play 
>> a 
>> role here? This hypothetical project is for a Hillborne, so I'd be 
>> curious 
>> what folks have used to get low q on their Hillbornes. I'm assuming I 
>> may 
>> have to change the BB as well.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Studs for Winter Riding?

[J G]

Tires *like* the W106 700x35 Nokians work well for snow and ice on paths, 
however on rutted ice, they have no studs to pull you out.
Tires *like* the W240 700x40 Nokians are more aggressive with knobs, stud 
volume and stud placement.  You can ride these pretty much anywhere.

Schwalbe Marathon Winter and Ice Spiker Pros are great tires and worth a 
look.

As stated above, more aggressive tread and studs drive traction more than 
tire width.

I just bought some nice NOS Schwalbe 26x2.35" folding Ice Spiker Pros for 
my Riv Mtn/Expedition.

Justus,
Mpls, MN

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 9:02:51 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yes, sorry. I didn’t catch the auto correct! Mine are 27.5x2.1. The only 
> others I used were right at 2”. So I can’t really say if wider helps. I can 
> say that the more aggressive tread and studs have made a huge difference. 
> They are about as loud as a car with studded tires though and my old set 
> made very little noise. 
>
> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 6:57:58 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Thank you all for your replies. Just to clarify @frahm30, are those the 
>> 45N Kahva tires? I'm wondering about the fit of 2.25 with studs in my Hunq 
>> frame. Worked at a bike shop this summer and saw a bike with studs (sheet 
>> metal screws) that chewed into a frame! Ouch! 
>>
>> In the case of studded tires, does a wider tire make a great deal of 
>> difference as far a traction goes?
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 6:41:04 PM UTC-8 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> I use 700x35 Nokians on my winter commuter. They work pretty well 95% of 
>>> the time, but today I was about at the limit – it snowed yesterday, thawed 
>>> a bit and rained, cleared off and froze hard, and then dusted snow again, 
>>> so we had loose powder on top of a sheet of pure ice. For conditions like 
>>> that I have some 26x2.2 Nokian Extremes that seem to be more stud than 
>>> tire, and they work spectacularly well on ice (though buzzy as heck on bare 
>>> pavement), but I don't have them on a bike right now so I just rode the 
>>> regular commuter carefully. Don't bother with any of the cheap Kendas etc 
>>> that only have studs on the sides – they say you only need them for 
>>> cornering but I've fallen while riding in more or less a straight line on 
>>> them multiple times.
>>>
>>> Josiah Anderson
>>> Missoula, MT
>>>
>>> Le dim. 3 déc. 2023 à 18:34, John Rinker  a écrit :
>>>
 Went for a ride in snow today and had a blast! I also slipped around a 
 little bit as I tried to follow the packed snow of tire tracks. Got me 
 thinking about studded tires. I've never ridden them before and know 
 nothing about them. 

 Do any of you fine folks with more experience in such matters than me 
 have any recommendations for studded tires for my Hunq?

 Cheers, John

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[RBW] Re: FS: Homer headbadge

[J G]

lol.  As soon as I saw this, I knew you had to be the guy who removed the 
head badge on what is now my Green Rosco.
On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 10:51:52 AM UTC-6 Paul M wrote:

> Sold. Thanks!
>
> On Friday, 1 December 2023 at 05:34:25 UTC-8 Paul M wrote:
>
>> Just removed this head badge from my new A. Homer Hilsen frameset. I like 
>> the look of the plain cream-colored head tube contrasting with the mustard 
>> frame. Perfect condition. Amazing what you can do with nylon tire irons. 
>> $35/shipped. Email me directly. Thanks, Paul in rainy Eugene Oregon.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rear rack for sport touring bike

[J G]

I carry a similar load and my Tubus Vega handles it without any sway.  As 
it should, 20lbs is a light load for the rack.

If you need more heel clearance due to the relatively short stays and your 
feet size, then could look up market a bit to their Logo rack that allows 
for lower and further back loading.

-Justus
Mpls, MN

On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 1:38:41 PM UTC-5 ber...@bernardduhon.com 
wrote:

>  
>
>  
>
> Planning a tour on my Sport touring bike.  98mm wheel base42.5 chain 
> stay length 
>
> Under 30 pounds split 10 pd front & 20 pd rear
>
>  
>
> Need brain trust to recommend a rear rack. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Style on the bike

[J G]

While I still kit up (to a lesser or greater extent) for bigger rides, I 
converged biking and daily wear about a dozen years ago.  Search and State 
and Mission Workshop on the kit end and brands like Outlier and Swrve along 
with Icebreaker and the original Ibex provided daily wear options that 
performed well on a bike.  Outlier generally leaning a bit more to the 
office friendly and fashion end and Swrve with more gussets and 
articulation leans to the all day on a bike side.  Added bonus is that both 
companies work with interesting high performance fabrics with Outlier 
having that at its core and Swrve generally doing special runs via their 
blk_label line.  Both companies also originally had all of their production 
in NYC and SF respectively and I try and support small businesses with 
sound ethics where I can.  Speaking of that, Kitsbow would be another 
mention as I really liked their wool Icon shirts, but they have recently 
gone under.  

Fashions change, style endures.  Keep wearing those skinny jeans and high 
boots if you like them.  Whatever gear makes a bike most accessible to you 
is the good stuff.

-Justus
Mpls, MN
On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:44:06 AM UTC-5 Tom Goodmann wrote:

> I empathize, Leah. Not being one for beausage in any area of life, I am 
> okay with wear and character on boots, but not with chain grease on pants.  
> You might try various ankle straps; those with velcro seem to have limited 
> effectiveness, as your experience suggest, and wear out over time. But 
> there are many others out there that may be more effective, either with an 
> extended strap mechanism or with a clip design (as seen in old British 
> films).  I'm sure you can find a design that will have you rockin' the 90s 
> grease-free!
>
> Tom (who commuted to campus by bike for years, mostly grease-free)
>
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 10:13:39 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> This might be a thread most of the guys scroll right on past. But where 
>> are my RivSisters? Are you here for this? Can we talk about fashion on the 
>> bike?
>>
>> The 90s styles have come back this fall, and since the late 90s was my 
>> era, I am in raptures over here. Cargo pants and wide leg jeans are back, 
>> and better. High-waisted (instead of low-slung) and in every fabric you 
>> could dream up. I have thrown myself whole-heartedly onto this band wagon. 
>> I have a super wide leg denim trouser, a relaxed cargo pant in green, a 
>> charcoal cargo pant in straight leg, and a black corduroy wide leg trouser. 
>>
>> But. Don’t we all know that the absolute zenith for bike style was the 
>> era of the skinny jean with tall boots? Skinny jeans tucked into tall 
>> riding boots never got caught in any drivetrains. You never, ever worried 
>> about getting grease on your pants legs in the skinny jean era. 
>>
>> Yesterday I decided to cycle to downtown and meet my husband for lunch. I 
>> really wanted to wear my new pants but did some hand-wringing over getting 
>> them dirty. I remembered the reflective ankle strap buried in my Saddlesack 
>> for such a time as this, slapped it on and rode off. But those straps work 
>> better in theory than in real life because by the time I got home, 
>> well…here’s a photo. 
>>
>> I thought about this. I don’t want to only dress for the bike. I want to 
>> have some cultural relevance and not be stuck in outdated clothes (ironic, 
>> since I’m trying to wear 90s, here) just because they are good for biking. 
>> My bike gives me freedom, not limits. My husband says, “You’re just going 
>> to have a grease spot on your pants. Accept it. It’s cute.”
>>
>> My other concern is my boots. The spikes on my Spank Oozy pedals will 
>> mark up the toe of my Red Wing and Frye boots when I use the toe to move 
>> the pedal to 2:00. I buy shoes that are meant to last, and it does pain me 
>> that these are getting chewed up. But, I think I’ve decided to accept the 
>> damage to expensive boots, too. If I don’t, I’ll be stuck in Keens and 
>> sneakers year-round.
>>
>> And then I wondered about all of you. Do you only dress for your bike? Do 
>> you wear what you want? Do you even care? 
>>
>> Meanwhile, I did order more ankle straps, figuring more is more. While 
>> I’m not too distressed about my army green pants getting greasy, I might 
>> feel differently if the pants were a lighter color. 
>>
>> Leah
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Paul Racer Brake Noise/Vibration

[J G]

Agree with Patrick that whatever change you make, give it a 100 miles.

Only disagree with the idea to toe in more.  Centerpull brakes work best 
with no toe in, in my experience.  

I have 2 bikes with Paul Racers, with one center mount and one post mount. 
 No toe in for either and no squeal or shudder.  Just some of the best 
braking power and modulation of any bikes I have.

Here is a good link that discusses center pull brakes and toe in:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/a-better-way-to-adjust-toe-in/

Here is a key excerpt from page and the theory stands IMHO for both center 
and post mount, even though the statement specifically alludes to post 
mount:

"Centerpull brakes attach close to the fork crown, so the fork blades don’t 
twist significantly. This is why centerpull brakes offer such consistent 
brake modulation. It’s also the reason they don’t require toe-in. 
Centerpull brakes work best when the pads are parallel to the rim.
When we introduced the Compass centerpull brakes, the toe-in was not 
adjustable. In our testing of prototypes, we found that the brakes might 
squeal for the first few rides, but they became quiet as the pads wore 
until they were parallel to the rim. Most of our customers have had similar 
experiences."


On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 1:34:07 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Are the rims and pads clean? 
>
> Are the rims new? I've found that a hundred miles or so of not-too-clean 
> riding surfaces can do a lot to "match" pads to rims.
>
> I had horrible squeal and front judder with Tektro CR 720s on my then-new 
> 2020 Matthews (26" wheels on largish frame, so very long steerer). I toed 
> the salmon pads in to a comical degree and both stopped or -- judder -- 
> reduced to a barely noticeable hint under medium braking pressures. The 
> braking effectiveness remained much the same; that is to say, mediocre -- 
> but: when I replaced the Tektros with Pauls the braking effectiveness 
> remained the same even through the squeal and judder went away with the 
> same pads normally toed in.
>
> OTOH again, after several hundreds of miles on the pads the "force" of the 
> brakes is now noticeably better and there is no more squeal or judder than 
> at first. (There is just a faint hint of judder in front under medium 
> braking, but it does not bother me who am excessively obsessive about such 
> things. I can't drill the fork crown because of the deep front fender 
> mounting boss under the crown.)
>
> If I were in your place I'd increase toe-in and ride the bike on some 
> dusty roads and re-evaluate the situation after 100 miles or so.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Paul Racer Brake Noise/Vibration

[J G]

I am a big fan of the Racer brakes.  Would hope that you would not need to 
dump.  Set mine up many years ago, but seem to remember them not being toed 
in.

I would recommend going back to no toe in and first see if the squealing 
ceases once bedded in, before considering other changes.

As far as the shudder, big bikes with 1" tubes and a canti hanger above the 
top of the headset, is a candidate for said shudder so a plus that you are 
not seeing that when not toed.

On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 12:11:55 PM UTC-5 JohnS wrote:

> Hello Ben, maybe it would help the group if you were to post a picture or 
> two of your current set up.
>
> Thanks,
> JohnS
>
>
> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 10:56:34 AM UTC-4 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Good to know...but if my brake is mounted on the fork, I'm not sure where 
>> I'd mount a fork-mounted cable hanger. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 9:50:52 AM UTC-5 Jay Lonner wrote:
>>
>>> This is a common complaint with headset-mounted cable hangers. Changing 
>>> to a fork-mounted hanger usually alleviates the problem. Shovel Research 
>>> just released a nice one: 
>>> https://shovelresearch.com/fork-mounted-brake-cable-hanger
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>>
>>> On Sep 8, 2023, at 5:54 AM, Ben Mihovk  wrote:
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>> I just got a new set of Racer (regular) brakes for my sidepull 
>>> Hillborne. Everything's set up, the brakes are grabbing/stopping, but I'm 
>>> getting the most horrific noises from the pads on the front brakes. I'm 
>>> using the Kool Stop Thinlines that Paul sends with the brakes. I set them 
>>> up following the instructions from Paul initially (no toe-in), and the 
>>> brakes squealed on the first test ride. So I toed them in and now I'm 
>>> getting this awful vibration when the pads touch the rims that gets 
>>> louder/more intense with speed. The vibration can be felt in the 
>>> saddle...all through the frame. Truly harrowing stuff here. When I full 
>>> pull the brake levers, the vibration kind of goes away but I get a light 
>>> squeal (even with brakes toed in). 
>>>
>>> I've never set up centerpull brakes or any brakes with a straddle 
>>> wire/hanger. I can't see how the problem could be from anything but how the 
>>> pads are hitting. I've double checked to see that the unit is centered when 
>>> I tighten it. The one goofy thing I'm noticing is that the right arm of the 
>>> brake seems lower because I have the pad set higher in the arm than on the 
>>> left side...but I've taken the pads off completely and recentered the brake 
>>> unit and I'm getting the same results.
>>>
>>> I've read a little about how big frames (this is a 62cm Sam) can have 
>>> the vibrations because of the length of cable and how tension varies 
>>> through the pull (or something like that). I've also read that this kind 
>>> issue could be from cheap/flimsly brakes...but I would hope that Paul 
>>> brakes would be above suspicion here. I've also heard that if something is 
>>> loose on the brake assembly, the vibrations can happen.
>>>
>>> However...I'm convinced it's in how I have the pads set...I don't get 
>>> vibrations when the pads are not toed-in...toeing in almost seems to bring 
>>> about the vibrations. 
>>>
>>> Any ideas anyone has would be very helpful. I'm at the end of my rope 
>>> and considering removing the Pauls and going back to the squisy and not 
>>> very good Tektros Riv put on it originally.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Ben in Omaha
>>>
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me Goodrich Sport Tourer

[J G]

Cannot believe I did not immediately recognize the location.

My least favorite part of some of my favorite rides...

-Justus

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 5:35:35 PM UTC-5 Pete P wrote:

> wats
> Love that Goodrich. Looks like some high gears too! 
> I recognize that view from the Mendota bridge looking
> east with Saint Paul in the distance and that deafening
> roar of auto/truck traffic just in back of you.
> Pete
>
> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 4:34:54 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>
>> That is gorgeous
>> 
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 12:19:52 PM UTC-5 wats...@umn.edu wrote:
>>
>>> Looks great! My Goodrich is a really great ride and I had to really work 
>>> not to inquire about yours when it was up for sale! Glad you got it, sounds 
>>> like it's in store for some great riding in Vermont.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2993.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 12:41:39 PM UTC-5 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>>
 Back in February or so I enjoyed an exchange here about a number of 
 bikes for sale via FB Marketplace; all had been owned by Tom Tredway, 
 former president of Augustana College. Some of you were fortunate enough 
 to 
 make buys, and generous in sharing information on what you saw. Well, I 
 lucked into a Goodrich sport tourer built for Dr. Tredway and--with the 
 inestimable help of Frank Neff on this list--changed things up from Albas 
 to drops, including Gevenalle shifters, which I am enjoying. 38 max tire, 
 btw; I picked up the front Berthoud bag from Peter White with a Klickfix 
 attachment, which the saddle bag that came with the bike has too. It's a 
 great ride, and will be heading with me to Vermont soon for some fall 
 gravel and pavement (and I am bringing the fenders).

 [image: Goodrich w: Albatross.jpeg][image: Goodrich w:drops.jpeg]

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Knee Pain / Soulcycle exercise bike

[J G]

Not clipped in so no concerns you had a bad cleat angle with the 5.10s

If you are not used to it, the high resistance and low cadence may simply 
be it.  I took my Fat bike on a 45 mile gravel ride with a lot of climbing 
and the rotational weight (resistance) along with me pushing harder than I 
should have, made it a ride I still remember (and not in a good way) a 
dozen years later.

Try and spin on it a few times once you feel better and see if you still 
have any issues to start.

Regarding bike fits, I have not had much success with fitters and do not 
always agree with the approach of fit systems/dogma (KOPS etc.).  I also 
tend to see more wrist issues with fit issues due to lack of saddle setback 
or a tipped down saddle nose.  However could possibly be saddle height 
impacting if you are stretching too much or not enough.  If you can post a 
side view of your fit on bike I am sure people will have opinions.

Here is also a good read on setback and a practical way to test your fit 
for proper weight distribution (a good read for anyone):

http://kirkframeworks.com/2009/06/19/riding-tip-3/

Good luck and spin it to win it!  As you get older, the gears should get 
lower!  (and the bars higher)

Justus
Mpls, MN
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 4:46:56 PM UTC-5 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> A few weeks ago my wife bought a SoulCycle bike. Although I made fun of it 
> and said it wasn't “real biking,” I ended up really liking it. I 
> immediately started riding it everyday. Unfortunately, I didn’t know my own 
> limits. I was doing a class and another in the evening. Now, my knees 
> really hurt and I can barely walk. 
>
> I suspect my mistake might have been that I turned up the resistance too 
> much - and I was going at two low of RPMs. Another possibility is that the 
> bike fit is off - that the saddle is too low or forward. I was riding in 
> those 5.10 bike sneakers, just on top of the pedals, not even clipless 
> pedals, so that wasn’t it. 
>
> Does anyone have any advice for me or know anyone who is an expert in bike 
> fittings? I called one local bike shop and they quoted me $200 for a 
> professional fit but I'm not sure that's what I need. I really could use 
> some help. I just turned 40 years old so I guess this is a wakeup call that 
> I need to take better care of myself. I am in New York City. 
>
> Thank you,
>
> Michael

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Re: [RBW] Re: A College Clem

[J G]

Just made this decision with my kid headed off to college in less than 2 
weeks, as the bike they have had for the past 8 years has no business in a 
college bike rack.

Was originally looking at 80s/90s mountain bikes, however they can be a 
little sluggish, so I ended up picking up a ~1997 Bianchi Advantage.  It is 
a great bike!

Really like these old 700c Bianchi's for this type of purpose.  Fit fat 
tires (up to 38c generally), upright riding position and 3x7 and depending 
on year model you can find your preferred shifter type as they seeming were 
made in thumb, twist and click shift versions depending on year.  Does not 
feel overbuilt.  They made a few similar models like the Boardwalk so lots 
of options out there within this 90s/00s Bianchi space alone.

I paid $140 for the one I just got and it was mechanically perfect and a 
really fun ride!



On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 12:59:17 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Leah — Another recommendation: the Electra Loft 7i. My friend in 
> Baltimore manages a Trek store and recently bought one. He quite likes it 
> and says it's okay if it gets stolen. He swapped the bars, stem, pedals, 
> seatpost, saddle, tires and added a front rack (I think it's a Velo Orange 
> constructeur with a Wald 139). Internally geared 3-speed hub. They're 
> around $750 from Trek. Just an idea :) 
>
> [image: loft.png]
>
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 11:45:26 AM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Hi Leah — Congrats on sending your son off to college 沈. This question 
>> does seem a little tricky! My short answer: Send him off with a racked and 
>> bagged dyanmo-equipped Clem. 
>>
>> I'm not precious about my Rivendells in terms of dirt or scratches to the 
>> paint. But I make sure they're in good mechanical condition, running well 
>> and I take care to make sure they aren't stolen. But that's the *current* 
>> version 
>> of me. When I started college 20 years ago I didn't have racks, I didn't 
>> have bags, I didn't have lights and I didn't have a clue. My bike was two 
>> sizes too small for me.
>>
>> I would not give College Freshman Eric Marth a Rivendell to take to 
>> school. I didn't have any tools, I didn't know how to change or repair a 
>> tube or adjust brakes. And I wasn't interested! I didn't know how to ride 
>> safely and didn't have good lights or reflectors. But I was not adjacent to 
>> any kind of bike culture and I didn't have a parent who was into practical, 
>> beautiful bicycles as tools to enhance life. Having a bike become a part of 
>> everyday life in college could be transformative. Especially with a bike as 
>> means of self expression and something more than a machine to get you from 
>> A to B. 
>>
>> One recommendation might be to send him off for with a beater, but a good 
>> one. Something like an 80s or 90s steel mountain bike in the Rivendell 
>> style. A Bridgestone, Trek or Specialized with swept back bars, basket, 
>> bags and lights. Here's a picture of Roman's Sequoia (maybe not the best 
>> example, those bikes are pretty desirable and not too cheap!). 
>>
>> [image: seqq.png]
>>
>> But here's the thing: Finding a bike in the right size that checks all 
>> the boxes (steel, braze-ons, good tire clearance, etc.) plus all the 
>> accessories required (racks, bags, fenders, lights) and you're looking 
>> again at the cost of a Clem in the first place! Plus a lot of time getting 
>> all the stuff sourced and put together, whether you do it yourself or leave 
>> it to a shop. Any old steel mountain bike you find will almost certainly 
>> need tires, tubes, cables and brake pads. On an older used bike the brakes, 
>> pedals, derailers and gearing might not be right. The handlebars will 
>> certainly not sweep back gracefully. If you look around on Craigslist in 
>> your area you might get sper lucky and find someone who has already 
>> upgraded an old steel bike in this style. I see them from time to time. You 
>> might also have some luck by starting a Want To Buy thread here with your 
>> requirements. Someone might have a nice beater they're ready to move along. 
>>
>> Another alternative is an off-the-rack hybrid from your local bike shop. 
>> Well that's so un-groovy as to be pointless. Surely it will not be as 
>> practical as the Clem or half as good looking. I think it's worthwhile to 
>> customize the bike with whatever you have in mind. Once that stuff starts 
>> to weather and get a little dirty I wonder if the bike will become a real 
>> head-scratcher for thieves. Step thru, waxed sacks, wire basket, fenders, 
>> what is this thing? It doesn't have suspension springs or carbon anything. 
>> It's an everyday bike. 
>>
>> I'm curious about the transition and how he's suited to land and college 
>> and get right into riding the bike everyday. Does he currently have a 
>> bicycle lifestyle and use his bikes for errands, shopping, meeting with 
>> friends, going to work? Do you anticipate he'll use the bike every 

Re: [RBW] Northern Hemisphere Summer Riding Photos 2023

[J G]

Hey Scott,

This is a 97 Riv Mountain/Expedition, originally owned by the OP of this 
thread.  Thanks for the comment on the build, it is a WIP and certainly has 
a strong imprint from myself as well as key pieces from the 2 previous 
owners. 

26" wheels
Compass 1.8" Extralight tires measuring an actual 42mm on ~22mm internal 
rims and giving good clearance for the VO fenders
Rides like butter at 24F/28R psi @ 145lbs (unloaded) thru 175lbs (loaded)

Thanks
-Justus

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-5 greenteadrinkers wrote:

Hello Justus,

Wanted to ask what model Riv you touring on, noticed the third bottle cage 
and short (by Riv standards wheelbase), also are the tires 650b? if so how 
wide? curious about what those fenders can accommodate. Amazing build!
Thanks
Scott

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 7:07:24 PM UTC-4 cjus...@gmail.com wrote:

One more from the central MN tour.

[image: IMG_1167_small.jpg]

-Justus
Mpls, MN

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:25:07 PM UTC-5 J G wrote:

Back just a few days ago from this bike's first tour (with me) on a 280 
mile loop through central MN.

Pictured here on the Lake Wobegon Trail somewhere near Albany, MN.

Note the Salted Nut Roll ensuring my minty BL-R600 levers do not get 
scratched for a photo op.  

Scratches need to be earned...

[image: DSCF0699_small.jpg]


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Re: [RBW] Northern Hemisphere Summer Riding Photos 2023

[J G]

Beautiful spot.  Looks like an overlook near Fruitlands.

Nice area for a ride.  Have not bicycled through there, but spent many days 
motorcycling the region when I lived in Boston in the 90s for college.

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 3:06:50 PM UTC-5 DavidP wrote:

> Patrick, this is in Harvard, MA; my area of Massachusetts doesn't have a 
> ton of hills high enough to give overlooks but this is a decent one. The 
> bike is a Soma Pescadero with 700x33s under the VO fenders and Diacompe 
> GC610 centerpulls - somewhat inspired by some of the Rambouillet / Romulus 
> builds I've seen.
>
> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 3:03:05 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> David: Where was this photo taken? Beautiful SOMA -- what model? -- and 
>> beautiful scenery (as is that in the Seattle and BC and Oakland photos).
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who must take some bosque acequia-trail photos with the 
>> cottonwood fluff in the air.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 10:51 AM DavidP  wrote:
>>
>>> Taking in the view at the top of the hill this morning.
>>>
>>> [image: PXL_20230619_130242278_prospect--hill-1800.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 7:34:16 PM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:
>>>
 A fine ride along Nakusp/Slocan trail skirting the Slocan Lake in 
 British Columbia. All alone save for the bears and the birds.
 [image: IMG_1311.jpeg]
 [image: IMG_1312.jpeg]
 On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 11:20:15 AM UTC-7 dblue...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Here's a mini ride report from my annual birthday ride this past 
> weekend, first birthday ride since I got my Homer. The route was ~53 
> miles 
> from home in Oakland to Samuel P. Taylor state park, by way of the 
> Richmond/San Rafael bridge and the Bolinas Ridge trail. This was my first 
> time on the Bolinas Ridge trail, and I was surprised by the contrast 
> between how wet it was with the mist up at the top, where moisture was 
> dripping down on us from the redwoods:
> [image: IMG_0553.jpg]
>
> there were lot of mud puddles and loose organic material to ride 
> through (here's some of what was still on my bike by the end of the ride):
> [image: IMG_0571.jpg]
>
> contrasted with the dry meadow just a few miles to the northwest where 
> the skies were blue and we picked up a couple hitchiking ticks:
> [image: IMG_0566.jpg]
> My riding buddies rated this route a top-tier birthday ride out of the 
> 10 years I've been doing these rides (one friend has ridden all but one 
> of 
> these rides with me. And, of course, I'm not 10 years old, I just took up 
> the tradition 10 years ago). Family came up by car with picnic and 
> camping 
> supplies for an overnighter at the park, and here's the bike ready for 
> the 
> more direct 35 mile ride home the next day:
> [image: IMG_0572.jpg]
> [image: IMG_0573.jpg]
> --dan
>
> -- 
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[J G]

I used to ride the Almanzo 100 annually and introduced many people to 
gravel over the past decade or so.

The Clem should be a great bike so long as you are committed to being 
upright.  For big rides drops are nice to get down and out of the wind, but 
not a need just to enjoy being on roads less travelled.  Long wheelbase and 
stability of the Clem is great.

I have not ridden gravel much with fenders but based on your tires 
comments, the fender size seems suitable.

I like small knobs and fast tires.  Rene Herse or Schwalbe Racing Ralphs as 
examples of what I am running etc.

If you are new to gravel or off road and 42 is not feeling confident, 48 
seems like a great spot for you and still in your fender range.

I still ride tubes for road and gravel.  I only ride tubeless for mountain 
biking.  No wrong answer really IMHO.

Enjoy the ride and shiny side up...

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:15:22 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I 
> rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I 
> have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose 
> right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like 
> gravel? Also, my Platys are prisses. 
>
> BUT. I’m not good at gravel. I have no idea what the kids are doing these 
> days. I have questions, and you have answers.
>
> 1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? Here’s what I have, and 
> they say up to 50 mm tire will fit:[image: IMG_5029.jpeg]
> 2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is 
> better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a 
> healthy fear of crashing.
>
> 3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are 
> wide enough. 
>
> 4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube 
> in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But 
> that can be changed right quick.
>
> Here is my Clem in its current configuration, and yes, I know the 
> Backabikes gotta go. 
>
> [image: IMG_1812.jpeg]
> Thanks for your help!
> Leah 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell paint color repetition: Your thoughts

[J G]

Nice looking Rivendell Standard road bike!

Looks like exact same paint options as my recently acquired 
Mountain/Expedition.

I think the specific color was Burnt Orange, for at least 1997 era.



On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 4:01:15 PM UTC-5 fyavorsky wrote:

> Butterscotch!
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 2:13 PM Mike Godwin  wrote:
>
>> Two favorites, yes the original Ram orange. And, the original slightly 
>> metallic deep blue on the Legolas. Stunning.
>> Mike "sparkly white blue accent Roadeo" SLO CA
>> On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 7:05:09 PM UTC-7 Bikie#4646 wrote:
>>
>>> Eric,
>>> I seem to recall being attracted to the "Butterscotch" Saluki (?) way 
>>> back when. Though I'm not sure I ever saw one in the wild. I do like the 
>>> metallics being used now, at least what I see online. Like the new light 
>>> metallic yellow on the Homer (or Sam's?). Hard to keep up.
>>> I must say though, when it came time to purchase a new Sam for a 
>>> dedicated touring bike back in 2015 or so, i opted for Black & Cream like 
>>> yours. I knew how a touring bike could take a beating. And despite being a 
>>> fine artist who has a huge stash of model car paints to mix almost exact 
>>> colors, given enough time, I have never been stumped worse than trying to 
>>> touch up my first early model  metallic orange Sam. I think it was a 
>>> two-stage paint (transparent orange over metallic gold?). That proved 
>>> impossible for me to match to my liking.
>>> Paul Germain
>>> Midlothian, Va.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 4:39:48 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hello friends — I've noticed that over the past few years Rivendell 
 have been using some of the same paint colors on many frames through 
 several production runs. If there's been a discussion of this practice, 
 I've missed it. 

 I can't quite put my finger on it but something about the same paint 
 appearing on frames over and over leaves me scratching my head. Perhaps 
 there's a missed opportunity to pin a color to a model or to cycle in new 
 colors with new batches of frames? 

 What do other members think? Do you appreciate the same colors 
 appearing on different frames? Do you wish there was a wider variety of 
 colors? Does it matter at all? 

 Some of these colors I like quite a lot, others I appreciate. There 
 isn't one that I dislike. The Lime Olive is always striking when it 
 appears 
 on a new frame, love it on the Hillbornes and Clems. 

 The harvest gold, wow, looks killer on those Susies. Blew my mind on 
 the Homers because they've always been a blue bike. 

 I do miss the mustard from the older Appaloosas and the dark bronze 
 that appeared on some Clems. These two colors paired with some of the 
 newer 
 colors currently in use demonstrate, I think, that Riv has some of the 
 best 
 paint colors in the biz. Really lovely stuff. 

 Here's a far-from-complete list more or less off the top of my head of 
 where current production colors have appeared:

 *Lime-olive*
 Platypus
 Susie
 Hillborne
 Clem

 *Mermaid*
 Appaloosa 
 Platypus
 Roadini
 Gus

 *Harvest/Dark Gold*
 Hillborne
 Homer
 Susie 

 *Ana Purple*
 Rosco Plat
 Appaloosa (next batch in 2023?)
 Road Uno or Gallop? (I can't remember but thought the purple was slated 
 for one of these frames) 

 *RBW Orange*
 Appaloosa
 Roadini
 Gus

 *RBW Blue*
 Too many to list?
 Appaloosa
 Clem
 Hillborne

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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Fred Yavorsky
> Jenkintown, PA
> https://www.twistcomm.com/FredBikes.html 
> 
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Suntour XC Pro 28.6 MicroDrive FD

[J G]

Got it.

Just so you know, the XC Pro has a very strong return spring.  No idea if 
that will make any difference for you.  Looking for feedback on that with 
Dura Bar Ends myself.

If you revisit Shimano, I will recommend that the ones from the same era as 
the XC Pro are about the best for 46t and under 8/9 speed big ring 
doubles/triples.  Take a look at the XT M737 or LX M563 or similar 
HyperDrive-C compatible FDs if you have not tried that specific era Shimano 
already.  I think the spring is balanced better and some of the models even 
have a tension adjuster built in.

GLWSearch.  Always good to try something new...

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 7:28:07 PM UTC-6 JW wrote:

> I like how they look :) But I'm not opposed to other Suntour 28.6 bottom 
> pull variants that would accomplish the same thing.
>
> And mainly Suntour over Shimano just to try something new.
>
> Thanks for your questions!
>
> Jared
>
> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 3:22:00 PM UTC-8 cjus...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> If you don't mind the inquiry...
>>
>> Why the XC Pro specifically vs an XC Pro - OR - any HyperDrive-C 
>> compatible FD which are functionally equivalent from an optimized gear 
>> range perspective?
>>
>> There are small but distinct differences in design between these Suntour 
>> MD and Shimano mtn-compact FDs, and curious if it is any of the little 
>> things pushing you towards the Suntour vs. the Shimano ones.  
>> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:51:22 PM UTC-6 JW wrote:
>>
>>> Bump, still looking!
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 9:27:39 AM UTC-8 JW wrote:
>>>
 Hey group,

 Looking for a Suntour XC Pro 28.6 MicroDrive FD for the compact triple 
 on my Platypus.

 Please respond off list if you have something that fits the bill.

 Thanks :)

 Jared in SLO, CA

>>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Suntour XC Pro 28.6 MicroDrive FD

[J G]

If you don't mind the inquiry...

Why the XC Pro specifically vs an XC Pro - OR - any HyperDrive-C compatible 
FD which are functionally equivalent from an optimized gear range 
perspective?

There are small but distinct differences in design between these Suntour MD 
and Shimano mtn-compact FDs, and curious if it is any of the little things 
pushing you towards the Suntour vs. the Shimano ones.  
On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:51:22 PM UTC-6 JW wrote:

> Bump, still looking!
>
> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 9:27:39 AM UTC-8 JW wrote:
>
>> Hey group,
>>
>> Looking for a Suntour XC Pro 28.6 MicroDrive FD for the compact triple on 
>> my Platypus.
>>
>> Please respond off list if you have something that fits the bill.
>>
>> Thanks :)
>>
>> Jared in SLO, CA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB: Rosco Platypus 50cm Purple

[J G]

Regarding end of year stock:  They were restocked on the site at end of 
year with a limited amount and have all sold.

Regarding Crust:  I think they just have the Platy in stock, not the Rosco 
Platy.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:16:26 AM UTC-6 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:

> Crust has all sizes right now. You don’t even have to pay twice for 
> shipping.
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 5:23 AM Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
>> Maybe you should call and ask Rivendell. They said at the end of the year 
>> that they had some back stock of all sizes and colors of the Rosco Platy. 
>> Its not listed on the site though. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 6:59:31 AM UTC-5 dane...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hey.  
>>>
>>> Curious if anyone here might have one they are looking to sell?  Could 
>>> be a frameset or possibly a complete.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Dan
>>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Help me "Riv" my bike fit, Please!

[J G]

How is the fit on your current bike and do you have any wrist issues after 
long rides or all feels great, always?  Just want to make sure your weight 
distribution is good on current ride as I worry a touch about whether your 
saddle setback and seat angle are putting weight on your wrists.

If you are pretty happy with fit now, but just want to try and get a little 
more Riv fit wise on the Sam, I would encourage you to reduce your saddle 
to bar drop to about 1" and bring your saddle tip to bar center back about 
1" as well and you might find that as a good start for a more upright 
position.  I also really like short and shallow bars but maybe you are more 
flexible than I am.  If you are not using your drops much now, the 
reduction in saddle to bar drop and a shallow bar will make the drops for 
more available.

YMMV.  Just where I would start if I was coming from the bike you are 
riding and wanted a different fit, but not too extreme of a change to start.

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 1:58:28 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> The unique thing about typical Riv builds is they're surprisingly flexible 
> on stack and reach - of course, stack is easily adjusted by the long quill 
> stems to suit your fancy, but also the reach becomes much less sensitive if 
> you run a swept bar like an Albatross because there's enough fore-aft room 
> that your hands just naturally find a comfortable position along the bar. 
>
> For a Sam, my suggestion is to run the Albatross bar and an 11cm Tallux 
> stem and see how it feels. This bar / stem puts the hands in a pretty 
> natural position for the Sam's ETT and steers nice.  Quite likely, your 
> natural hand position will land in the good zone with this setup
>
>
> On Monday, 9 January 2023 at 06:42:15 UTC-8 Davey Two Shoes wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>> I'm building up a Sam Hillborne and this is my first Riv build. I'm not 
>> sure where to start with stack and reach. Coming from your typical roadie 
>> fit I'm not sure how much shorter to make my reach and taller to make my 
>> stack in order to get that coveted Rivendell riding position. I'm trying to 
>> get this right with as few stem purchases and bar wrap jobs as possible! 
>> Are there any general rules of thumb here? This build will be a drop bar 
>> build.
>>
>> My handlebar (not frame) XY position is as follows:
>> Stack 626mm
>> Reach 498mm
>> Appreciate any help you can give me!
>>
>> For reference, my Fred Sled: (excuse the flat tires)[image: 
>> purple.jpg]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Paul Touring vs. Neo-retro question

[J G]

Bob,

My understanding is that this is one of the cases where the physics of 
brake design and how they interact with the setup as related to yoke angle 
in this case, creates confusion because it is not just the brake design 
that has to be considered, but also the yoke angle's part in overall 
mechanical advantage.  Each brake type allows for very different yoke 
angles and that is why overall a touring brake has the capability to be 
setup with more power, if done correctly and with that purpose in mind.

I think this article is a good one on the topic as it is actually on canti 
geometry:

https://www.velonews.com/gear/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-a-detailed-look-at-brake-shudder/

And here is the associated Sheldon page:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html

On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 10:38:13 AM UTC-6 rcook...@gmail.com wrote:

> Scott,
>
> I've used the Neo-Retro as a front brake for about ten years and have 
> always had great luck with it. It looks great and, at the time, I was under 
> the impression that the Neo-Retro was the more powerful brake—than the 
> Touring Canti, that is. Paul's web page for the Neo-Retro used to warn that 
> it's a powerful enough brake that one should make sure the frame could take 
> the braking force, and maybe use the Touring Canti instead if one wasn't 
> sure. I can no longer find that warning on the website. In any case, the 
> Neo-Retro is powerful enough for me and relatively easy to adjust, and it's 
> my first choice for a rim brake. (For some reason, likely user 
> error/dimwittedness, I've never had luck with linear-pull brakes, but then 
> I've never tried the Motolite.)
>
> I chose the Touring Canti for the rear to maximize heel and pannier 
> clearance. The combination works well for me, even with a full touring load 
> going downhill.
>
> --
> Bob
>
>
> On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 4:12:41 PM UTC-7 greenteadrinkers wrote:
>
>> If you had to choose between the Paul Touring Canti or the Neo-Retro for 
>> a front brake, which would you pick and why? 
>>
>> Curious about how much functional difference exists between the 2 models.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Paul Touring vs. Neo-retro question

[J G]

I use the touring brake up front when I run them for mountain mountain 
bikes and loaded tourers due to higher mechanical advantage, as already 
mentioned.

I will often run the Neo-Retro up front with a Touring in the rear for 
Rando, light touring and city bikes where that is less important to me. 
 Good setup and good compassionless housing is what makes the difference 
for me in any brake and the Neo-Retros work just fine for me in many 
applications.

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 5:27:06 PM UTC-6 Jay Lonner wrote:

> I’ve used both, prefer the Tourings due to higher mechanical advantage. 
> Now I run Motolites which are even better. Maybe I’m just bad at setting up 
> cantis but switching to linear pull brakes was a big upgrade for me. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jan 20, 2023, at 3:12 PM, greenteadrinkers  
> wrote:
>
> If you had to choose between the Paul Touring Canti or the Neo-Retro for 
> a front brake, which would you pick and why? 
>
>
> Curious about how much functional difference exists between the 2 models.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Clem H 59cm Complete (Custom Build)

[J G]

Really nice build on this!

Suntour XC Pro cranks are some of the all time greats and you have it with 
about the best generation of XT.  Specifically a Hyperdrive-C compatible FD 
that along with the similar LX version (m563) is the best match for most 
smaller chainring (large ring 42-46t range) double and triple drivetrains.

GLWSale.
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 7:23:28 PM UTC-6 Daniel wrote:

> Update: I was shooting from the hip on pricing the other day and I think 
> bundling the shipping in isn't fair to the buyer or me. I've decided to 
> drop the price to $1500 for the bike and then shipping is 100% on the 
> buyer. I think this is fairer and more transparent.
>
> I hope this makes it more appealing to ya.
>
> Daniel
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:48:33 PM UTC-8 Daniel wrote:
>
>> Selling my Clem H to declutter my garage (AKA my office). It's latest 
>> build (where it got its least mileage) is as a trail bike and that's 
>> redundant for me.
>>
>> The size is 59cm which I measured as the following:
>> Seattube (CTC):58cm
>> Toptube (CTC):63cm
>> Chainstays:56cm
>> Headtube:21.75cm
>> HTA:72⁰
>> STA:72⁰
>> TT Slope:4⁰
>>
>> This is an earlier green "H" with the cool swoopy seatstays build up 8 
>> speed as follows:
>> Mech - rear:Deore XT
>> Mech - front:Deore XT
>> Crank:Suntour XC Pro
>> Bars:Nitto Bullmoose w/ Newbaums tape and ESI silicon grips
>> Brakes:Deore XT (black) v-brake
>> Brake Levers:Deore XT
>> Shifters:Suntour (mounted under the bars)…working OK but some 
>> slipping, so I didn't trim the cables yet…you might prefer different 
>> shifters or other positions.
>> Seatpost:OEM
>> Headset:Tange (original)
>> Rims:Velocity Cliffhangers
>> Hubs:Shimano Non-Series (FH-RS300 front / HB-T3000 rear)
>> Tires:Conti 29 x 2.6" (maxed out for this frame!) set up tubeless 
>> with Orange Seal
>>
>> Note: saddle, waterbottle cages, pedals, reflector triangle, trail bell 
>> and any other accessories photographed are not included.
>>
>> Pictures here . Shown with 
>> 82cm saddle height.
>>
>> Price: $2k shipped in the lower 48. Other locations, please contact me. 
>> Discount for SoCal (LA/OC/IE/SD) buyer since I won't have to pack and ship.
>>
>> Want to buy or questions? Please email me off list.
>>
>> Daniel
>> Yorba Linda, CA (Orange County)
>>
>

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[RBW] WTB: Clean pair of Shimano BL-r600 brake levers

[J G]

Good Day,

Looking for a clean pair of Shimano BL-r600 brake levers if anyone has a 
pair they are willing to part with.

Lots of functionally similar levers out there including the r400s, but I am 
specifically interested in only this model for the hot dish of a build in 
progress.

Thanks for your consideration...

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[J G]

That is pretty funny!  I assume I am in the rabbit hole alone when I make 
some of these connections.  Good on you for connecting as the Casseroll has 
been out of prod for 7 years or so IIRC.  I was comparing the 49cm 2010 
Mustard Casseroll (my favorite version and just found NOS after 12 years) 
Geo with this version of the 50cm Roadini:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/ROADINI-500-Geo.jpg?7649874663519573416

That is the link currently posted on Riv but I suspect based on some of the 
tire info that it is an earlier iteration, so the 2022 model may be 
diverging from that link and the 15 year old Casseroll design to something 
just a little further from a road bike in its latest version.

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:13:18 PM UTC-6 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
cjus...@gmail.com, sorry I don't know your name, but while staring at the 
finished build as one does, one of my first thoughts was, this looks a LOT 
like a Casseroll! I've never ridden one but am delighted that someone else 
made that connection. I would 100% agree with that description for the 
Roadini: "A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences." 

I also should've clarified that the 2022 Roadini model is the one I have a 
harder time calling a road bike. To me it's a new-age sport tourer. Lot's 
of bags don't even need brazeons or racks these days and I think the 
Roadini would carry them in stride. 
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
I think of the Roadini as a Rivendell road bike, as in "this is how Riv 
distills Rivness into a TIG-welded caliper-brake frame designed to be a 
little shorter than other Rivs, and will probably use dropbsrs and 
skinny-ish tires." It's not a "road bike" as the current market understands 
that term. 

Joe Bernard 

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:41 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
Patrick, 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience with 
the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because I 
like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding 
the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap 
swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
bikes... 

Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH 
prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the 
Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at 
right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and 
a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat 
gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived 
rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and 
I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now. 

This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe Rivendell 
shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely THEIR 
version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo fit 
into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
their own as well. Food for thought. 

Andrew
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
That's frame and fork and headset, folks.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy hs!!] 
with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires and 
gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[J G]

If you want to steal some marketing from another company where the ethos 
has had some Venn overlap, would it be fair to describe the Roadini as:

"A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences."

Why that description?  That is the marketing for the Salsa Casseroll that 
was first released in 2007.  I know the original designer for the Casseroll 
and as I was looking at mine, I could not help but think it screamed 
Roadini to me.  This is not surprising as the Bridgestone/Rivendell ethos 
is well baked into the Minneapolis cycling community with the "godfather" 
of the local cycling scene being a former BStone racer (and print model 
IIRC).

Sure enough, save for the differences with the 1" vs. 1 1/8" head tube and 
a more aggressive STA on the Casseroll, every bit about the Geo of the 
current Roadini is nearly identical to the similar size Casseroll.  HTA, 
fork offset, BB drop, CS length (if Casseroll at back of horizontals) They 
even marketed the sizing for these in a very Riv way as I am riding a 49cm 
and traditionally run a 54cm road bike.

Just my thoughts for describing as I am building a Casseroll now and could 
not help but notice how in every way it felt like a Roadini in sheep's 
clothes.

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:24:41 PM UTC-6 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> Patrick, 
>
> You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience 
> with the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because 
> I like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding 
> the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap 
> swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
> cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
> gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
> insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
> experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
> they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
> bikes... 
>
> Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH 
> prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the 
> Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at 
> right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and 
> a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat 
> gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived 
> rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and 
> I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now. 
>
> This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe Rivendell 
> shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely THEIR 
> version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo fit 
> into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
> beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
> their own as well. Food for thought. 
>
> Andrew
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That's frame and fork and headset, folks.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy 
>>> hs!!] with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires 
>>> and gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[J G]

You guys have it right for ball parking limits based on something in the 
26x~4" range based on my experience.

As stated before, my custom Clockwork Dirt Fat 1x (SqT White Industries 
Road Cranks w/76bcd spider & 1x ring) with narrow Deda stays has a Q of 
~180mm and looking at the space needed for tire, space, stays (modern yokes 
giving a little more here when used), space and arms, 170mm was what I was 
thinking for theoretical minimum with a SS or Rohloff.  Sounds like Zach is 
confirming 168mm really pushes that limit.

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 11:32:32 AM UTC-6 Joe D. wrote:

> Thanks Zach! The Tumbleweed is definitely appealing, especially with a 29 
> x 3 dirt tire and 26 x 4 in winter.
>
> I wonder if 26 x 4 with reasonably big rims (64mm or full 80mm) would work 
> with a modified cassette, like the setup Crust bikes talk about here: 
> https://www.tumblr.com/crustbikes/159521355676/the-stubby-cassette. I'd 
> be fine with only 5-7 gears. And I think a Q factor closer to 180-185 would 
> be ok. It sounds like it'd definitely be a no-go at your Q factor of 174.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 10:23:35 AM UTC-7 Zach Roeder wrote:
>
>> I'm using a Shimano XTR M9125-1 with a Q of 174mm on my Rohloff 
>> Prospector (first generation). With short axle XTR SPD pedals, it feels 
>> like a 168mm q factor. I've tried several different cranks, and I think 
>> this is as narrow as you can go. And if you are a super strong rider, maybe 
>> there's the possibility of the crank hitting the chainstays?
>>
>> Clearances are super tight everywhere with 26x4". I'm actually 
>> considering slightly wider q or smaller tires because I occasionally rub my 
>> legs on the tires on descents, and it hurts! I love how it pedals for long 
>> rides though. 
>> On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 1:33:19 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Laing and Hoch. Once again, confirmed that fatbike Q is more than 
>>> I care for.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM Hoch in ut  wrote:
>>>
 For reference, I built a Pugsley years ago with White Industries cranks 
 and custom BB. The narrowest I could get the Q factor was 183mm. That is 
 with about 2-3mm crank clearance. Much narrower than stock but definitely 
 nowhere close to 160. 

 On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 10:48:43 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Bob. Others: If any of youse have this information, would be 
> very glad to hear it. Thanks.
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:33 PM Bob  wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> I do not, sorry to say. Would like to have those data myself. Anyone 
>> here have a Prospector, a caliper, and a few minutes to take 
>> measurements?
>>
>> --
>> Bob
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 1:17:49 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Bob: Do you know how low a Q you can get on the Prospector, 
>>> Scapegoat, Chimera and Bull Thistle, particularly with a single speed 
>>> drivetrain (if any accept a ss drivetrain)? I've stayed away from 
>>> Pugsleys 
>>> etc because of the Q but if one can be built as a ss with a Q of no 
>>> more 
>>> than 160 I'd be very interested for our local sandy trails. As it is, 
>>> I've 
>>> been thinking of a 29er+ replacement for my Monocog 29er on which the 
>>> rear 
>>> 71 mm WTB ranger rubs the stays in corners but fat would be even better 
>>> if 
>>> the Q could be sorted. 
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[J G]

The Paul Motolites do also have the best quick release mechanism of the 
bunch.

The Paul brake that stands out the most to me is the Racer and Racer M. 
 Even better in post mount.  That is the kind of brake you build a bike 
around.  

I run the gamut of Pauls and like them all just fine, but I am also ok with 
DXR, BB7s etc. when I want to keep costs in check.  Setup is the most 
important thing with brakes and good compassionless housing.
On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 8:26:26 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I would not agree that the only difference between most well-functioning 
> v-brakes and Paul Motolites is the name. On my Riv Custom that started with 
> Shimano DXR brakes the Pauls are notably nicer to modulate. Are they worth 
> the money? That's a different question I answered for myself, they do work 
> better. 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 6:23:02 PM UTC-8 Will Boericke wrote:
>
>> For me, Paul brakes are not worth the retail price.  Good V-brakes (the 
>> level above department store) are universally well-functioning.  Paul buys 
>> you the name on the brake arm and probably some more freedom from 
>> maintenance.  Now, I think it's important to point out that I've owned one 
>> set of mini-motos.  I found them finicky.  TRP mini-Vs were better.  Will I 
>> still probably buy a set of Paul's if they're a good used deal?  Probably.  
>> Not going to spend $500 on them, though.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 9:08:23 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, good to know.

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
> road 
> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
> Your 
> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>> just 
>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>> would 
>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>
>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
>>> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
>>> woot!). 
>>>
>>
>>> Philip 
>>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>>
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>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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 .

>>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Shimano BR r600 or r650 brake set - FOUND

[J G]

Nice find!  Appreciated...

All sorted here!

On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 12:22:53 PM UTC-6 jeffbog...@hotmail.com 
wrote:

> PMsent
>
> On Monday, 26 December 2022 at 11:47:59 UTC-6 cjus...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Correct.  Nice brakes.  Wrong reach for my needs.
>>
>> To clarify, I am really only looking for a set of the specific models 
>> listed (in recessed mount - not nutted) and am not looking for other 
>> functionally equivalent 47mm-57mm brakes available.  Unless someone has a 
>> set of center mount polished Paul Racer Ms at a nice price, then let's talk.
>>
>> Thx!
>>
>> On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 11:22:19 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guessing this wouldn't work for you due to the reach, but I have a 
>>> gently used set of Dura Ace BR 7700s with a 39-49mm range.
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 12:05:14 PM UTC-5 cjus...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Looking for a Shimano BR r600 or r650 standard reach 47mm-57mm brake 
 set.

 Missed a nice set for sale here last month and hoping someone has a 
 clean pair they are willing to part with.

 Please let me know if you have a clean set available and what you are 
 asking for $. 

 Thx all.

>>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Shimano BR r600 or r650 brake set

[J G]

Correct.  Nice brakes.  Wrong reach for my needs.

To clarify, I am really only looking for a set of the specific models 
listed (in recessed mount - not nutted) and am not looking for other 
functionally equivalent 47mm-57mm brakes available.  Unless someone has a 
set of center mount polished Paul Racer Ms at a nice price, then let's talk.

Thx!

On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 11:22:19 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm guessing this wouldn't work for you due to the reach, but I have a 
> gently used set of Dura Ace BR 7700s with a 39-49mm range.
>
> On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 12:05:14 PM UTC-5 cjus...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Looking for a Shimano BR r600 or r650 standard reach 47mm-57mm brake set.
>>
>> Missed a nice set for sale here last month and hoping someone has a clean 
>> pair they are willing to part with.
>>
>> Please let me know if you have a clean set available and what you are 
>> asking for $. 
>>
>> Thx all.
>>
>

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[RBW] WTB: Shimano BR r600 or r650 brake set

[J G]

Looking for a Shimano BR r600 or r650 standard reach 47mm-57mm brake set.

Missed a nice set for sale here last month and hoping someone has a clean 
pair they are willing to part with.

Please let me know if you have a clean set available and what you are 
asking for $. 

Thx all.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Saluki 650b, 60cm, complete bike

[J G]

Photos are uploaded at http://www.flickr.com/photos/94248582@N06/



On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 10:38:56 PM UTC-5, J G wrote:

 I am the original owner of this beautiful, rare, Toyo built, Saluki 60cm, 
 650b with centerpull brakes.  I am selling it as a complete bike which is 
 how I purchased it from Riv, they assembled it with their attention to 
 detail.  Original green and cream color.  Mix of Nitto and Shimano 105 
 components.  I would like to sell it to someone in this group and not go to 
 Ebay with it.  Asking $2400.00.  Please contact me off list with serious 
 inquiries.  I will be taking photos and link to them this weekend but won’t 
 have time until then (Sept 8).  If you inquire I will supply you with the 
 link and answer your questions on all the details of the bike. 


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[RBW] FS: Saluki 650b, 60cm, complete bike

[J G]

I am the original owner of this beautiful, rare, Toyo built, Saluki 60cm, 
650b with centerpull brakes.  I am selling it as a complete bike which is 
how I purchased it from Riv, they assembled it with their attention to 
detail.  Original green and cream color.  Mix of Nitto and Shimano 105 
components.  I would like to sell it to someone in this group and not go to 
Ebay with it.  Asking $2400.00.  Please contact me off list with serious 
inquiries.  I will be taking photos and link to them this weekend but won’t 
have time until then (Sept 8).  If you inquire I will supply you with the 
link and answer your questions on all the details of the bike. 

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